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1
Radioisotopicradiometric dating
2
Radioisotopicradiometric dating
Many believe in an old earth ie billions of years old due to radioisotopic dating
3
Radioisotopicradiometric dating
Many believe in an old earth ie billions of years old due to radioisotopic dating
But is this really the case Is it true that the earth is billions of years old
4
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts
5
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C)
6
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C) 40K-40Ar
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
2
Radioisotopicradiometric dating
Many believe in an old earth ie billions of years old due to radioisotopic dating
3
Radioisotopicradiometric dating
Many believe in an old earth ie billions of years old due to radioisotopic dating
But is this really the case Is it true that the earth is billions of years old
4
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts
5
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C)
6
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C) 40K-40Ar
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
3
Radioisotopicradiometric dating
Many believe in an old earth ie billions of years old due to radioisotopic dating
But is this really the case Is it true that the earth is billions of years old
4
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts
5
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C)
6
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C) 40K-40Ar
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
4
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts
5
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C)
6
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C) 40K-40Ar
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
5
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C)
6
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C) 40K-40Ar
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
6
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 (14C) 40K-40Ar
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
7
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
8
Radioisotopic dating
Some basic concepts Carbon 14 40K-40Ar Assumptions Closing slides
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
9
Data does not speak for itself
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
10
Data does not speak for itself Data must be interpreted within a philosophical
framework
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
11
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-
e-e-
e-
++
+
+++
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
12
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
13
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
14
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
15
Three Types of Radioisotopic Decay
Gamma radiation ndash photon of light emitted atom does not lose mass
Alpha radiation ndash alpha particle has mass when decay happens atom loses mass
Beta radiation ndash loss of an electron atom does not substantially lose mass
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
16
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
17
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
18
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
19
Half-life
Parent ndash the original radioactive element Daughter- the resulting element(s) from radioisotopic
decay or series of decay Half-life ndash the amount of time it takes for parent to decay
to 5050 parentdaughter ratio eg 1000000 atoms of 238U would take 45 billion years to get 500000 atoms each of 238U and 206Pb (one half-life) and second 45 billion yrs would result in 250000 atoms of 238U and 750000 atoms of 206Pb (two half-lives)
At this time unknown what causes an individual radioactive atom to decay while another does not
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
20
Half-life
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
Daughter
~4500000000 years
Parent
One half-life
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
21
Half-life
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
Parent
~9000000000 years
Parent
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
Daughter
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
Two half-lives
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
22
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
23
206Pb
238U 234Pa234Th230Th234U
214Po
226Ra 214Bi214Pb218Po222Rn
Uranium 238 Decay Series
210Po210Bi210Pb
α α α
α α α
α α
β
stable
β
ββ
ββ
447 billion yrs 24 days
20 min1602 yrs
77000 yrs240000 yrs67 hrs
27 min31 min38 days
138 days5 days22 yrs0000164 sec
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
24
The late Willard F Libby led team of scientists at University of Chicago during the post-II War period
1949 first measured rate of 14C decay at 5568 plusmn 30years
1960 Libby received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Half-life revised to 5730 plusmn 40 years (Cambridge half-life) 1950rsquos used Gas Proportional Counting to measure 14C
Liquid Scintillation Counting (LSC) uses benzene acetylene ethanol methanol and other chemicals
Mid-1970rsquos development of Accelerated Mass Spectroscopy (AMS)
The Atomic Mass Number is the sum of the number of protons and neutrons
Carbon 14
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
25
National Ocean Sciences AMS at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Massachusetts Photograph of Staff Physicist Robert Schneider placing a carousel of graphite targets into the ion source of the accelerator
Photo by Tom Kleindinst 1995
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
26
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
27
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
28
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
29
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
30
Airatmosphere carbon molecules
9889 12C
11113C
00000000001 14C or 1 14C forevery 1000000000000 12C
12C is stable 13C is stable 14C is unstable 14C changes back into 14N Entire inventory of 14C is called the carbon
exchange reservoir
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
31
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
32
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
33
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
34
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
35
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
36
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
37
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
38
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
39
Cosmic Rays
Upper Atmosphere
Atoms
Neutrons
Lower Atmosphere 14N 14N 14N 12C
12C + neutrons proton
14C
CO2 CO2
14C
12C
14C
12C
14C
12C
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
40
Known limitations Size of sample is important
the larger the better purification and distillation removes some matter
(LSC) AMS better able to handle smaller samples Requires great care in collecting and packaging
Carbon sample location requires careful stratigraphic examination
Upper practical limit of 40000 ndash 50000 years or 9 -10 half-lives
Atmospheric 14C 12C ratio not always constant In general single dates should not be trusted Whenever
possible multiple samples should be collected and dated from associated strata
(httpid-archserveucsbeduAnth3CoursewareChronology08_Radiocarbon_DatinghtmlC14Process)
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
41
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
42
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
43
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
44
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
45
Other factors affecting 14C dating
Plants may discriminate against intake of 14C plants are known to discriminate against 13C1
Reservoir effects Suess or Industrial effect Atomic bomb effect Noahrsquos flood
1 wwwplantphysnetarticlephpch=9ampid=135
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
46
14C in coal
C14 found in coal supposedly millions of years old
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
47
14C in fossils
C14 found in fossilized wood
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
48
14C in diamonds
Diamonds are believed to have formed 1-3 billion years ago
The earthrsquos mass is about 6x1027 g which would be equivalent to about 43x1026 atoms of 14C
It takes 88 half-lives to get to a single atom of 14C
88 half-lives is about 500000 years
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
49
The presence of 14C in supposedly ancient coal fossil wood and diamonds falsifies the notion that the rocks or strata in which they were found are millions or years old
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
50
K-Ar dating
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
51
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
52
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
53
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
54
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
55
K-Ar dating
Parent daughter40K 40Ar
40Ca Half-life of 40K is 126 billion years 40Ca is rarely used to determine
dates because it is hard to determine the quantity of calcium initially present
112 of 40K decays to 40Ar 888 of 40K decays to 40Ca
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
56
Whole rock dating ndash the whole of the rock sample is crushed and dated
Partial rock dating ndash rocks are generally composed of different minerals these different minerals have different structures and radioisotopes behave differently in each mineral
Note radioisotopic dating is usually done on igneous and volcanic rock Metamorphic and sedimentary rocks are considered less suitable for dating because their origin is already preexisting and re-worked rock
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
57
Date calculation
t = h x ln[1 + (40Ar)(0112 x (40K))]ln(2)
wheret = time in yearsh = half-life in years ln = natural logarithm
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
58
Atmosphere (air) contains 40Ar -some air 40Ar may be trapped in
rocks -ratio of 40Ar to 39Ar in air is well
known at 2951 -measuring 39Ar and 40Ar and
applying the ratio one can subtract off air-40Ar
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
59
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
60
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
61
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
62
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
63
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
64
Measured K-Ar Mt St Helens
Lava solidified in 1986 340000 years plusmn 600 yrs 2800000 yrs plusmn 600000 yrs Critics claim excess Ar which is known
about Biblical creationists question whether
dating works on rocks of unknown ages when it does not work on rocks of known age
httpwwwanswersingenesisorgtjv10i3argonasp
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
65
Half-lives of other radioisotopes
Most half-lives taken from Holden NE (1990) Pure appl Chem 62 941-958
Radioactive Isotope(Parent)
Product(Daughter)
Half-Life(Years)
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 488 billion
Rhenium-187 Osmium-187 42 billion
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 38 billion
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14 billion
Uranium-238 Lead-206 45 billion
Potassium-40 Argon-40 126 billion
Uranium-235 Lead-207 07 billion
Beryllium-10 Boron-10 152 million
Chlorine-36 Argon-36 300000
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5715
Uranium-234 Thorium-230 248000
Thorium-230 Radium-226 75400
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
66
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
67
Decay rate did not change when subject to extreme changes in temperature pressure magnetism electrical fields and chemical alteration
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
68
Constant decay rate Anderson and Spangler showed decay process is not
random therefore concluded that decay rate is uncertain putting all radiometric dating into serious question
Working with Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 they state ldquoThe evidence is inconsistent with the theory of decay independencerdquo1 Cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical field
ldquohellipeven though holding responsible scientific positions these authors admitted to difficulty in getting their work published and since then have confessed that it has been lsquodisregarded discounted disbelievedhellipby virtually the entire scientific communityrsquo (Anderson and Spangler 1974)rdquo2
1 Quoted in Note 11 In the Minds of Men Ian T Taylor TFE PublishingToronto Canada
3rd edition fifth reprint 1994 p 457 2 Taylor ibid p 296
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
69
In cautiously worded terms Anderson and Spangler ldquowriting in American Physical Society Bulletin 1971 101180 had presented their data to show that the gamma emission rate of cobalt 60 was significantly influenced by electrical fields They concluded that in this case radioactive decay is not independentrdquo 1
In 1974 the authors freely expressed their views more explicitly in the now defunct journal Penseacutee
1 Taylor op cit p457
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
70
Rhenium-187 1
-half-life of 42 billion years-half-life of 33 years when stripped of
electrons-isolated case
1 Don DeYoung ThousandshellipNot Billions p 144 with reference to Kerr Richard 1999 Tweaking the Clock of Radioactive Decay Science 286(5441) 882-883
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
71
Solar neutrinos-seasonal fluctuations-rates increased when closer to the sun and
decreased when farther from the sun
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Mullins J 2009 Solar ghosts may haunt Earthrsquos radioactive atoms New Scientist 271442-45
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
72
Cavitation-shock waves produced from the collapse of
vapour bubbles resulting from extremely fast water flows
-during a 90-minute experiment radioactive thorium decay was accelerated by a factor of 10000 times
Brian Thomas httpwwwicrorgarticlesradioactive-decay-rates-not-stable article posted August 4 2009 referencing Cardone F R Mignani and a Petrucci 2009 Piezonuclear decay of thorium Physics Letters A 373 (22) 1956-1958
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
73
Radioisotopes not found on earth Old earth suggested from extinct parent isotopes
for which there is strong evidence that these once existed in substantial amounts in meteorites but have since completely decayed away
Extinct Isotope Half-life (years) Plutonium-244 82 million Iodine-129 16 million Palladium-10765 million Manganese-53 37 million Iron-60 15 million Aluminum-26 700000 Calcium-41 130000
However can be interpreted as vast quantity of decay occurred in the past not necessarily indicative of age
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
74
1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 52 55 58
Time
De
ca
y R
ate
The present
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
75
Deep Earth Zircons
Uraniumlead age of 15 billion yrs plusmn 20 million yrs
Crystals contained too much helium to be million yrs old
Leak rate of helium out of zircon crystals was unknown
Predicted and measured helium leak rates agreed at ~6000 yrs
Helium leak rate concords with Biblical history
D Russell Humphreys A Tale of Two Hourglasses Impact article 402 Institute for Creation Research California December 2006
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
76httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
Predicted Leak Rates
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
77httpcreationonthewebcomcontentview6193 accessed December 01 2008
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
78
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
79
238U238U
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb238U
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
206Pb206Pb
238U238U
238U206Pb
238U238U
238U238U
~ 45 billion years
206Pb
238U
238U
206Pb
206Pb206Pb238U
Time Now
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
80
Some assumptions
Decay rate is constant over the determined time period
Neither parent nor daughter material has been added to or taken away from the sample during the determined time period
The initial parentdaughter ratio is known (ie it is most often assumed to be zero daughter)
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
81
Argon-Argon
40K-39K ratio appears to be constant in the sample Sample put in nuclear reactor and bombarded
with neutrons 39K is turned into 39Ar Assumed that newly formed 39Ar is proportional to
39K
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
82
Wiens calls this a typical argon-argon plot
But is it typical Notice also the Y-axis on the left hand side From where does one obtain the age Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
83
Isochrons Iso = same equal chron = time
Attempts to address issue of initial amount of daughter material before any parent material had time to decay
Attempts to address issue of addition or subtraction of external radioisotopic material ie whether or not the sample remained a closed system
Attempts to address the most likely computed age of a rock sample based upon the statistical average of several radioisotope measurements
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
84
An ideal isochron
Parent isotope Rb-87Sr-86
Dau
ghte
r is
otop
e S
r-87
Sr-
86
Mineral 1
Mineral 2
Mineral 3
Mineral 4
Rock when formed
Rock now
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
85
Fig 5 A thin verticalamphibolite layer(darker rock) justupstream of Clear CreekGrand Canyon
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 46
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
86
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
87
Creation 27(3) June-August 2005 p 47
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
88
ldquoIt would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently but with the appearance of great age just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age) The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we wont go into here hellip
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
89
hellip The main drawbackmdashand it is a strong onemdashis that this makes God appear to be a deceiver However some people have no problem with this Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past Whatever the philosophical conclusions it is important to note that an apparent [emphasis added] old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidencerdquo
Roger C Wiens Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective revised 2002 Wiens has a PhD in physics with a minor in geology He is a firm believer in the radiometric dating method and believes in an old earth
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
90
However if God stated that He created in six days but really took millions and billions of years would this not make God a deceiver
If God really took millions and billions of years to make the heavens earth and all creatures but He said He did it in six days would this not make God incompetent at communicating
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
91
Age is not directly measured Amount (or ratio) of parentdaughter
at the present time is what is measured
Heat pressure water chemicals can affect the parentdaughter ratio
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
92
Other dating methods Thermoluminescence (TL) when individual grains of common
minerals such as quartz are heated they emit light and this is related to the radiation lsquostoredrsquo in the crystal structure By measuring the light emitted from the mineral grain when it is heated and measuring the radiation in the environment where the grain was found a date is calculated It is assumed that the radiation was slowly absorbed from the environment building up from zero at a certain time in the past (perhaps when the grain was last exposed to sunlight)
Optically-stimulated luminescence (OSL) dates are based on exactly the same principle and TL But instead of heating the grain it is exposed to light to make it emit its lsquostoredrsquo radiation The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL
Electron-spin resonance dates are based on the same principles as TL and OSL However the lsquostoredrsquo radiation in the sample is measured by exposing it to gamma radiation and measuring the radiation emitted The measuring technique does not destroy the lsquostoredrsquo radiation (as does TL and OSL) so the measurement can be repeated on the same sample The calculated date is based on the same assumptions and affected by the same uncertainties as for TL and OSL
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
93
Other dating methods contrsquod
Thorium-uranium (ThU) dates are based on measuring the isotopes of uranium and thorium in a sample It is known that uranium-238 decays radioactively to form thorium-230 (through a number of steps including through uranium-234) The dating calculation assumes that the thorium and uranium in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Furthermore before a date can be calculated the initial ratios of 230Th238U and 234U238U need to be assumed and it is also assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or thorium tofrom the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo However the bone and soil must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow these elements to enter and accumulate
Protactinium-uranium (PaU) dates are based on similar principles as ThU dating but use uranium-235 and protactinium-231 instead The isotope 235U decays radioactively to form 231Pa Again it is assumed that the isotopes in the sample are related to each other by radioactive decay Also the initial ration of 231Pa235U has to be assumed and it is assumed that there has been no gain or loss of uranium or protactinium to for from the environmentmdashie that the system is lsquoclosedrsquo Again any bone sample containing uranium must have been lsquoopenrsquo to allow it to accumulate in the first place
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
94
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
95
Eisegesis
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
96
Exegesis
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
97
Scientist amp Bible
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
98
ldquoWhen Moses wrote that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days then let this period continue to have been six days and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day hellip
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
99
But if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are For you are to deal with the Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written But since God is speaking it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to gordquo
Martin Luther cited in E Plass What Martin Luther Says A Practical In-House Anthology for the Active Christian Concordia Publishing House St Louis 1991 p 1523
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
100
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
101
Acknowledgments
Answers In Genesis
Creation Ministries International
Institute for Creation Research
102
The End
102
The End
