Alter Ego #50

$5.95In the USA

Roy Thomas’Merry Marvel

Comics Fanzine

Sub-Mariner, Thing, Thor,& Vision TM & ©2005 MarvelCharacters, Inc.; Conan TM &©2005 Conan Properties, Inc.;Red Sonja TM & ©2005 RedSonja Properties, Inc.;Caricature ©2005 Estate ofAlfredo Alcala

No.50July2005

ContentsWriter/Editorial: Make Mine Marvel!. . . . . . . . . . . 2“Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics . . . . 4Jim Amash interviews Roy Thomas about being Stan Lee’s “left-hand man”in the 1960s & early ’70s.

DC Comics 1965––And The Rest Of Roy’sColor-Splashed Career . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us!

About Our Cover: A kaleidoscopically collaborative combination ofthree great comic artists Roy worked with and admired in the 1960s and’70s: Alfredo Alcala, John Buscema, and Jack Kirby. The paintedcaricature by Alfredo was given to him as a birthday gift in 1981 andshowed Rascally Roy as Conan, the Marvel-licensed hero on which thetwo had labored together until 1980, when R.T. ankled Marvel for DCfor what turned out to be a six-year semi-exclusive stay. The threeMarvel super-heroes drawn by Big John are from 1990s re-creations ofhis 1960s art—while the Conan/Red Sonja illo was a commissiondrawing. Jack penciled the Thing figure, complete with A/E-boostingsign, back in 1962, especially for A/E—and it was inked for V1#4 byA/E’s founding editor/publisher Jerry G. Bails. Thanks to Alfredo’swidow Mrs. Estelita Alcala and to his sons Christian Voltan Alcala andAlfredo Alcala, Jr., for permission to use the caricature—to OwenO’Leary for copies of John’s re-creations (sent at the time of our tributeto John in A/E #15-16)—and to the Jack Kirby Estate (and JGB) fortheir blessings re bashful Ben Grimm. [Art ©2005 Estates of AlfredoAlcala, John Buscema, & Jack Kirby, respectively; Sub-Mariner, Thor,Vision, & Thing TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Conan TM & ©2005Conan Properties, Inc.; Red Sonja TM & ©2005 Red Sonja Properties, Inc.]

Above: The indefatigable and talented Shane Foley decided—“on awhim,” he says—to draw, “maybe for a border or something,” thesehorizontal and vertical groupings of a few of the many heroes Roy hashandled over the past four decades… and Ye Ed liked the concept somuch that it became our contents page art. Most of these guys Roymerely scripted a fair number of stories about—others he co-created,whether for Marvel, DC, or (in one case) Dennis Mallonee’s HeroicPublishing. Shane even worked in Superman fighting H.G. Wells’Martians, as delineated on p. 19 on our flip side. Thanks, mate! You didyourself proud yet again! [Art ©2005 Shane Foley; characters TM & ©2005their respective trademark & copyright holders.]

Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA.Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: [email protected]. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues:$8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © theirrespective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM ofRoy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada.

FIRST PRINTING.

Vol. 3, No. 50 / July 2005EditorRoy Thomas

Associate EditorsBill SchellyJim Amash

Design & LayoutChristopher Day

Consulting EditorJohn Morrow

FCA EditorP.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt EditorMichael T. Gilbert

Editors EmeritusJerry Bails (founder)Ronn Foss, Biljo White,Mike Friedrich

Production AssistantEric Nolen-Weathington

Cover ArtistsAlfredo Alcala, John Buscema,

& Jack KirbyJerry Ordway

Cover ColoristAlfredo Alcala (portrait), Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to:Alfredo Alcala, Jr.Christian Voltan

AlcalaEstelita AlcalaHeidi AmashHeather AntonelliBob BaileyJeff BaileyMark BeazleyJohn BensonDominic BongoBob BrodskyRich BucklerMike BurkeyWilliam CainR. Dewey CassellErnie ChanLynda Fox CohenTeresa R. DavidsonMichael DewallyShel DorfMichael DunneJennie-Lynn FalkShane FoleyJeff FoxCarl GaffordJanet GilbertDick GiordanoGlen David GoldStan GoldbergBob GreenbergerCurt GriffIan HamerlinckJennifer HamerlinckDavid G. HamiltonDaniel HermanRichard HowellKaren HughesStan LeeLarry LieberAlan Light

Allen LoganLinda LongDon MangusSam MaronieMike MikulovskyAl MilgromFred MommsenBrian K. MorrisFrank MotlerOwen O’LearyDenny O’NeilDave NewtonJerry OrdwayTom PalmerGeorge PérezDon PerlinMike PhoenixJohn G. PierceNick PopeGreg PrestonRichard PryorEthan RobertsPeter SandersonEric SchumacherCarole SeulingGwen SeulingMarie SeverinRick ShurginDavid SiegelKeif SimonJoe & Betty SinnottPaul SmithZack SmithBritt StantonFlo SteinbergMarc SwayzeDann ThomasMaggie ThompsonJim Vadeboncoeur, Jr.Tom WimbishMichele Wolfman

This issue is dedicated by Roy tohis mother–––MRS. LEONA THOMAS

™

Roy ThomasShamelessly Celebrates

50 Issues of A/E, Vol. 3—& 40 Years Since

Modeling With Millie #44!

• Full-color Batman vintage-1950s cover by LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ!

• LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ—BOB KANE’s “ghost” from 1946-1953—interviewed byJON B. COOKE about his life and work! Plus Batman art by JERRY ROBINSON,DICK SPRANG, SHELDON MOLDOFF, WIN MORTIMER, JIM MOONEY, & others!

• ““TThhee LLiiffee aanndd DDeeaatthh ooff tthhee AAuussttrraalliiaann CCoommiiccss IInndduussttrryy –– 11994400--11996622!!”” Dr. Mensana—Captain Atom (no lie!)—Molo the Mighty—Sir Falcon—The Panther—The Shadow(no, not that one—or that one, either!)—Air Hawk—plus the astonishing “DownUnder” career of The Phantom—examined by MICHAEL BAULDERSTONE!With agiant kangaroo’s pouch full of super-hero art rarely seen in the Northern Hemisphere!

• DAVE BERG talks to JIM AMASH about Timely/Marvel, Fawcett, & Quality—with art from Uncle Sam, Combat Kelly, etc.—ALEX TOTH on comic art—MICHAEL T. GILBERT on the legacy of WILL EISNER—BILL SCHELLY interviews 1960s fan GLEN JOHNSON—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, OTTO BINDER, & C.C. BECK—& MORE!!

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• Convention Sketches and Program Books• Unpublished Artwork• Original Scripts (the older the better!)• Photos• Unpublished Interviews• Little-seen Fanzine Material

We’re also interested in articles, article ideas, or any other suggestions...and we pay off in FREE COPIES of A/E. (If you’re already an A/E subscriber,we’ll extend your subscription.) Contact:

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#51

[Art ©2005 DC Comics]

Plus: THE GOLDEN & SILVER AGES OF AUSTRALIA!

LEW SAYER SCHWARTZ& THE MARK OF

(BOB) KANE

COMING IN AUGUSTCOMING IN AUGUST

Edited by ROY THOMASSUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $60 Standard, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewhere: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail).

NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

ike I was saying in my editorial on the flip side—you may find it awee bit tricky to decide which side of this issue you read first!

That’s partly because my first staff job in New York in lateJune of 1965, almost exactly forty years ago, was for “Superman” lineeditor Mort Weisinger at National/DC, which might seem to make thatpoint (plus my two Charlton stories written that spring) the logical placeto start. But the Weisinger stint lasted only two truncated weeks—one, ifyou’re the type of person who counts something as a job only if youactually get paid for it—and by Friday afternoon of Week Two, I was onstaff at Marvel Comics, working for Stan Lee, as detailed on the flip side.That gig lasted just over fifteen years before I returned to DC—maybejust to prove I’m not in the habit of changing jobs every fortnight.

As per usual, I had far more ambitious aims for this 50th issue than Iwas fated to realize. You can blame Jim Amash for that (I certainly do):even though we’d decided he’d interview me only about my late-1960swork at Marvel, Jim had so many good questions about that period(admittedly spilling over into the early ’70s now and then) that our talktakes up this entire half of the mag, and even squeezed nearly all our adsonto the other side. Well, since this celebration of my 40th year as acomics writer is a “1965-2005” kind of thing, it seems fitting that, if

something had to get short shrift this ish, it would be the middle andlater years—and even they are covered, at least in passing, in theChecklist on the other side.

Even though, in the 11th hour, publisher John Morrow and I agreedto bite the bullet and add eight more pages this month (bringing thecount to 108 for this doubly special issue), several things had to be jetti-soned: the “re:” section (sigh)—my long-delayed final article on All-StarSquadron #1 (as a lead-in to the upcoming All-Star Companion, Vol.2)—a piece written with Jean-Marc Lofficier on our work together inthe late 1980s on several issues of The Young All-Stars—as well ascoverage of my 1972-74 stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief, and my workwith Conan and other heroes created by pulp fictioneer Robert E.Howard, with which I’ve become not unhappily identified.

Oh, well—gives us something to shoot for in future issues—includingA/E #100, right?

And now, with no further ado—except for the art and captionbelow—we’ll let Jim Amash march us through the merry mine-fields ofMarvel….

Bestest,

Make Mine Marvel!Roy Celebrates 40 Years Since Modeling With Mille #44–––And 50 Issues of A/E, Vol. 3!

Article Title Topline 3writer/editorial

Since A/E has two pairs of “maskots,” who generally appear in alternate issues, ouragile Australian artistic adaptoid Shane Foley volunteered to assemble this strikingcollage of all four guys for #50’s “re:” section—but since there isn’t one this month,we’ve printed it here! As Shane informs us, Alter & Captain Ego (at left) were derivedfrom figures of Rick Jones and Adam Warlock drawn by Gil Kane in Captain Marvel #21(Aug. 1970) and Marvel Premiere #2 (May ’72), respectively—while Alter Ego and RobLindsay come from John Buscema-penciled figures for Sub-Mariner #1 (the 1968 one!)and Avengers #97 (March ’72)—with multi-hero sidekick Rick Jones doing double dutyas both teenagers. Nice work, Shane! Roy loved seeing what these creations might’ve

looked like if drawn by two of his favorite artistic collaborators! [Art ©2005 Shane Foley;Alter & Capt. Ego TM & ©2005 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly (created by Biljo White);

Alter Ego & Rob Lindsay TM & ©2005 Roy & Dann Thomas.]

LL

ALTER EGOCELEBRATES

50FABULOUSISSUES!

ALTER EGOCELEBRATES

50FABULOUSISSUES!

NTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Roy WHO?? —Jim.

“My First Official Job Title At Marvel Was ‘Staff Writer’”JIM AMASH: You worked at DC for a week or so before you went toMarvel. Did DC hire you as an assistant editor?

ROY THOMAS: I don’t know if that term was ever used, but that’swhat it amounted to. I was the assistant to Mort Weisinger, who was theeditor of the “Superman” line of comics.

JA: Was there an expectation—from you or them—that you wouldwrite as well as edit?

THOMAS: Well, I’d already written a “Jimmy Olsen” script a fewmonths before, while still living and teaching in the St. Louis area. Mort

had me advanced fifty bucks when I sent it in—which helped with myone-way plane fare to New York—and I was to rewrite the story later. Iworked at DC for eight days in late June and very early July of 1965.During that time, Mort mentioned that [DC Flash-JLA editor] JulieSchwartz had expressed an interest in me doing some writing for him.He didn’t say if I’d be writing more “Superman,” but I was never toldthere was a policy against it. [NOTE: See “Two Weeks with MortWeisinger” on our flip side.]

JA: Then you were hired by Marvel. Were you hired as editorial staff,or was there a discussion about writing?

THOMAS: I was hired after taking Stan’s “writer’s test,” and my firstofficial job title at Marvel was “staff writer.” I wasn’t hired as an editoror assistant editor. I was supposed to come in 40 hours a week and writescripts on staff. Not exactly the easiest thing in the world. I sat at thiscorrugated metal desk with a typewriter in a small office withproduction manager Sol Brodsky and corresponding secretary Flo

“Roy The Boy”In The Marvel Age Of ComicsRascally Roy Thomas Talks About Being Stan Lee’s “Left-Hand Man” In The 1960s & Early ’70s

Interview Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

4

II

“They Call ’Em ‘Associate Editors’ Because They’re The OnlyOnes Who’ll Associate With The Editor!”

Roy Thomas (left) and A/E associate editor/ace interviewer Jim Amash,conspiring about the mag at the 2004 Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC. Seen infront of Jim is a Spider-Man Sunday newspaper strip on which he was then

assisting regular inker Joe Sinnott. [Photo ©2005 Sam Maronie.]

The Page That Launched A Thousand ScriptsThe one page Roy still has of the “writer’s test” Stan gave out to would-be

scripters in the mid-’60s. The test consisted of story pages 19-22 ofKirby/Stone art from Fantastic Four Annual #2, with all balloons and captionsremoved, which the testee was to dialogue “Marvel style.” In July 1965, Royapparently passed the test and got the job. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Steinberg. Everybody who came upto Marvel wound up there, and thephone was constantly ringing, withconversations going on all aroundme. Stan was in and out, too.Almost at once, even though Stanproofed all the finished stories, heand Sol started having me check thecorrections before they went out,and that would break up myconcentration still further.

I loved the job in general, but Icouldn’t get much writing donefrom 9 to 5, so I started staying late.I sometimes worked alone in theoffice in the darkened building until8 or 9, as well as at Dave Kaler’sLower East Side apartment where Ilived for several months. I’d puttransparent tracing paper over theoriginal artwork, lay out theballoons, then rough in the dialoguein longhand, all capital letters.

Gene Colan’s first “Iron Man”story, in Tales of Suspense #73, wasmy first stab at writing a Marvelsuper-hero, after doing one or two“Millies.” When I turned in the“Iron Man,” I was told I wouldn’tget paid extra for writing it, eventhough I’d done it outside officehours. It was explained that the two

“Millie” titles could be donefreelance, but other writing was tobe counted as staff. I said Icouldn’t write in the office duringthe day. I’ve never been great atshutting out noise—and besides,they kept asking me to do this orthat, or questions like in whichissue something happened, or Stanwould come in to checksomething, because I knew a lotabout Marvel continuity up to thattime. (Of course, there wasn’tnearly as much of it then as there isnow, so it wasn’t that hard.)

It quickly became apparent tothem, too, that the staff writerthing wasn’t working, and Stansegued me over to being being aneditorial assistant, which immedi-ately worked out better for allconcerned. I don’t know if I wasever given that official title; theyjust stopped thinking of me as astaff writer. I don’t recall if I gotpaid extra for the next super-heroscripting I did—two Ditko “Dr.Strange” stories I dialogued [inStrange Tales #143-144]—but I gotpaid as freelance for everything Iwrote after that. And I never didany of it in the office, not even onmy lunch hour.

Giving Credits Where Credits Are DueRoy Thomas (left) and Gene Colan (right), as seen in a photographic

“rogues’ gallery” in the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual—plus R.T.’s first-everMarvel super-hero splash, from Tales of Suspense #73 (Jan. 1966), withpencils by Gene (as “Adam Austin”) and inks by Jack Abel (as “Gary

Michaels”). Stan Lee, who’d plotted the tale with Gene, rewrote so much ofRoy’s script on this, Gene’s first “Iron Man” story—roughly 50%, by Roy’sestimates—that he made it one of the very rare Marvel stories with no

itemized credits. FYI: Sol Brodsky was production manager, Flo Steinbergcorresponding secretary, and Marie Severin colored the story. To quote

Stan: “Whew!” [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Three Offices, Five Characters – July 1965(Left to right:) Stan Lee (the beard is post-’65)—Sol Brodsky—Marie Severin—Roy Thomas &

Flo Steinberg at Flo’s desk circa ’65-’66. The photos of Stan, Sol, and Marie are from the 1969 F.F.Annual, while Flo’s personal photo of her and Roy is reproduced from Les Daniels’ 1991 book Marvel:Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics. [Photos ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About The 1960s & Early ’70s 5

“Ditko And [Stan Lee] WereNot On The Same Wavelength”JA: When you did those “Dr. Strange”stories, were you aware Ditko wasabout to quit?

THOMAS: No. I’d met him, and one ofthe first things I learned at Marvel wasthat Stan and Steve weren’t speaking toeach other. Steve just came in anddropped his stuff off with Sol, and thenStan dialogued it. By then, Steve wasplotting both “Dr. Strange” and Spider-Man and getting credit for it. Outsidethe field, I doubt anybody knew therewas friction between them, becauseneither he nor Stan would’ve leaked thatto the fan press—and who else would’vebeen interested? Somehow,by some sort of Daredevilradar sense, Stan neverwalked into Sol’s officewhile Ditko was there.You’d think it might’vehappened just once byaccident, but it never did

Strange But True…Steve Ditko—and the splashes of the two Ditko-drawn “Dr. Strange” stories dialogued by Roy

for Strange Tales #143-144 (April-May 1966). That “written and rewritten” credit on #143, addedby Stan, is mind-numbingly accurate: The Boy had to do a lot of rewriting before The Man put

his imprimature on the story—but he learned a lot in the process! Photo of Ditko courtesy of Britt Stanton. [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Legends At Loggerheads!(Above:) Steve Ditko’s layouts for p. 7, panel 5, of “Just a Guy Named Joe!” in AmazingSpider-Man #38 (July 1966)—his final issue—as scripted and lettered before it was sentback to the artist for inking. A few lines have dropped out on our photocopy (suppliedby David G. Hamilton), but this gives you a pretty fair idea of the art Stan dialoguedfrom when Spidey battled a super-villain in a nearly skin-tight costume. And thereby

hangs a tale of two issues earlier….

(Right:) In “When Falls the Meteor!” in ASM #36 (May ’66), the silhouette (in layouts) ofthe villainous Looter looked virtually identical to Spidey’s, since both wore form-fittingcostumes. Accordingly, when Stan scripted the final panel on p. 13, he had to decide: didSteve mean that to be Spidey on that ledge, hunting for the fled Looter—or was it The

Looter himself, hiding thereon? With no clarifying note from Steve, Stan wrote the figureas Spider-Man, and Artie Simek lettered it. When the story came back, however, Stevehad inked the figure as The Looter—apparently the character he’d intended it to be.

At this point, of course, either the balloons or the figure had to be totally changed. Thus,Roy recalls lingering at the Marvel offices well after 5:00 p.m. one nigh-Christmas day in

1965 and chatting about Charlie Biro with veteran artist Carl Hubbell (then inkingRawhide Kid) while the latter painstakingly transformed Looter into Wall-Crawler in thatpanel. It wasn’t a case of Stan being right and Steve wrong, or vice versa—but if there’sa better illustration of the fact that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko weren’t playing in the sameballpark by the mid-1960s, Roy hopes someone will point it out to him. But it was a great

team while it lasted! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

6 “Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics

during those several months I was around.

In November or December, Ditko brought in pencils for one of histwo series, and told Sol that he’d finish the episode of each hero that hewas working on, and that would be it. Sol naturally went in and toldStan first, before he told me. I was sitting nearby, but hadn’t eaves-dropped on Steve’s conversation with Sol.

JA: Did Stan have you and Denny O’Neil writing dialogue for “Dr.Strange” because he was trying to scale back, or because of thefriction with Ditko?

THOMAS: Mostly because he wanted to scale back, because Stan neverstopped loving Ditko’s work. He just had to give something up, andStrange Tales was the book that sold the least well of any of themonthlies, no matter who drew “S.H.I.E.L.D.”—Kirby or Steranko orwhoever—and no matter who did “Dr. Strange.” “Dr. Strange,” beautifulas it was, was a less important feature than “Human Torch” or even“S.H.I.E.L.D.” It was the only Marvel costumed-hero strip I hadn’talways read as a fan. I’d always liked Ditko’s artwork, starting with“Captain Atom” at Charlton, but I just wasn’t into magicians. Now, ofcourse, I realize I was nuts to read “Human Torch” and “Giant-Man,”and not “Dr. Strange.” But that’s the way I was at the time, and I don’tthink I was alone in doing that.

JA: What was your understanding of the problem between Ditko andStan?

THOMAS: Sol told me they’d argue about plotlines. I heard from eitherSol or Stan, for instance, that Steve had wanted a major character to becrossing the street and get killed by a car. Stan nixed that idea because itdidn’t seem like drama to him, even though it was realistic. Steve mightnot remember that incident, or he might remember it differently. I’venever talked to him about it.

I know Stan felt The Green Goblin should turn out to be somebodyimportant to Spider-Man. He didn’t want to repeat that bit with the manin the Crime Master’s mask [Amazing Spider-Man #27], who turnedout to be some nobody. I don’t know if that had been Stan’s idea orSteve’s, but I know that as a reader I’d found it dramatically unfulfilling.Still, I appreciated the realism: just because you take off a guy’s maskdoesn’t mean you’re going to recognize him. This shows that Stan andSteve were thinking increasingly differently. Stan was doing quite wellediting and writing a whole line of comics, and Ditko was feeling hisoats, too, because he knew he was doing good work, and people wereresponding to it. Certainly Stan liked it; everybody liked it. Yet, Ditkofelt he and Stan weren’t on the same wavelength. He was probably right.

I saw Steve only a few weeks after he quit, at a party at Dave Kaler’snew place on the Upper West Side. I said to him, “I’m not spying forStan, and I won’t tell him what you say, but why did you quit?” All Iremember from Steve’s vague response is a sentence fragment: “Well,you know, when a guy’s working against you...” I doubt if he meantStan was consciously working against him, just that he felt Stan shouldleave things to him since he was plotting the book. At least that’s how Iinterpreted it. Steve may not remember ever saying that, but I’ll swear tomy dying day that he did—those exact words. There wasn’t anything Icould say, so I didn’t pursue the matter further. I had too much respectfor Steve to press him.

At that stage, Stan felt he knew what was selling the Marvel comics,and I think he was right. He was willing to go along with a lot of whatSteve wanted to do; otherwise, he wouldn’t have let him plot the stories.He probably went along with a few things that were against his owninstincts. But in other areas, he felt he had to dig in his heels and say no,because he was the editor. And “with great power, there must also comegreat responsibility.” If Martin Goodman had suddenly noticed a titlewasn’t selling and asked Stan why he had done this or that, Stan couldn’treply that it was because the artist wanted to do it that way. Let me tell

you, that would not have been sufficient excuse for Martin Goodman! Itwas just a case where two people couldn’t compromise, and of courseStan had the authority. He used it with a light rein, but when he felt hehad to use it, he did, just as anybody would. If you don’t, why be aneditor at all? “With great responsibility, there should also come greatpower.” I made that up.

JA: In articles he wrote recently for Robin Snyder’s newsletter TheComics!, Ditko says Stan is the one who stopped speaking to him, notthe reverse.

THOMAS: It probably was Stan, because Ditko didn’t have theauthority to do that: he was an artist bringing work in to an editor who’shis superior in the company. If it was Stan’s decision, he probably feltthat was the only way the two of them could go on working together.Maybe it would’ve worked better if Stan had gone on trying to talk toSteve, but it’s hard to say in retrospect, because nothing had ever existedquite like the working relationships between Stan and Steve and Jack. Itwas a somewhat different arrangement than comics was used to. I won’tsay it had never existed before, but it was relatively rare.

JA: When you dialogued those “Dr. Strange” episodes, did Ditkoprovide any marginal notes or writing of any kind?

THOMAS: I’m sure he did, but I believe they were sketchy. His pencilswere very loose, too—not much more than stick figures—because he

Green Grows The Goblin“Stan felt The Green Goblin should turn out to be somebody important toSpider-Man.” And, of course, he did—Norman Osborne, to be precise—but bythen, Sturdy Steve Ditko had walked and Jazzy Johnny Romita was drawingThe Amazing Spider-Man. This sketch of the Goblin by J.R. is courtesy of the#1 Romita collector in the universe, Mike Burkey; see his buying-and-selling

ads elsewhere in this very issue. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]


was going to finish them in the inking. I’m sure therewere notes, not just the art, because Stan wanted theartists to tell what was going on, to avoid misinterpre-tation. Jack, of course, got in the habit of writing moreand more in the margins. Stan would take what hewanted from that, and felt no obligation to take anymore. I think the same was true with Steve.

JA: I had wondered about that, because I don’t recallever seeing Ditko’s notes on the originals. I think thatDitko has at some point said that he wrote his notes on separate pieces ofpaper.

THOMAS: I don’t recall getting separate pieces of paper, but I only workedwith him twice at that stage, so I don’t recall.

“Just Show Me The First And Last Page Of Any Story You Write”

JA: What were your early impressions of Stan? How much of the personalitythat he put into the comics did you see when you started working for him?

THOMAS: Well, in private he didn’t talk like a “Bullpen Bulletin.” He wasvery aware of having a public persona, the same way a performer would. Youwouldn’t expect a comedian to be cracking jokes every second in privateconversation. Whatever sort of public face he put on things—about this beingfun, or that being great—he also had to be taken seriously as an editor, and youcan’t joke your way through that.

JA: We’ve heard stories about Stan sitting in his office in the ’40s andplaying some kind of flute while he was editing the line. I’ve gotten theimpression that, by the ’60s, he was more serious in the office.

THOMAS: I never saw him play any musicalinstrument, not even a kazoo. [Jim laughs] Right after Istarted working for him, I was walking around

Manhattan one night with my new friend LenBrown, who worked for Topps Bubble Gum.He and Wally Wood had worked together onthe famous Mars Attacks! card series, and Lenhad just written the first couple of “Dynamo”stories for Wally at Tower. Wally had quitdrawing Daredevil a few weeks before, andLen told me how horrible Wally claimed Stanwas… including that old story about himstanding on top of a file cabinet years ago andthrowing all the staffers’ checks up in the air sothey’d have to scramble for them. I said,“Y’know, I haven’t seen any of that. Maybe heand Wally just didn’t get along.”

Naturally, it’s too bad that Stan and some of the best artists in the business—Wood,Kirby, Ditko—came to eventual partings of the ways, but that doesn’t pin down whose“fault” it is. They also produced a lot of good work together before parting. Partnership isa hard thing, as I always say.

JA: Yeah, and when your partner is also your boss, I guess that can cause friction.

THOMAS: Yeah, that was part of the problem between Barry Smith and me later. Ithought of us as friends, and I’d gone out of my way to get Barry work. Later on, from


The Man Without PeerWhen Wally Wood (left) became the artist on Daredevil with #5 (Dec.

1964), a thrilled Stan trumpeted his arrival on the splash with unabashedpride. Their short-lived collaboration produced seven issues of as

breathtakingly beautiful comic art as ever blessed the Man without Fear—and, considering other early DD artists included Bill Everett, Joe Orlando,

John Romita, Jack Kirby, and Gene Colan, that’s saying something! Photo courtesy of Richard Pryor. [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters.]

Millie And Me(Above & left:) Stan Goldberg, a.k.a.

“Stan G.,” from that oh-so-handy 1969 F.F.Annual—and his splash for Modeling withMillie #44 (Dec. 1965), the first issue scriptedby Roy T. Unfortunately, neophyte Roy failedto indicate credits on the story—and Stanforgot to add any, as well, while rewritingRoy’s dialogue. They forgot the logo, too!

But hey—at least R.T. corrected the grammarof the Anthony Newley song “Who Can I

Turn to?” from which he took the title! Inkeruncertain. Photo courtesy of Stan G. [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

things he wrote and said, it appears to me that, in spite of our hangingaround together, including for a week in London in 1970, he seems tohave compartmentalized things so that I was just his boss. I’ve alwaysbeen sad about that, because I didn’t feel that way. But it’s true that, atthat time, if Barry—or some other artist—and I had a disagreement overa story, I was probably going to win it. I’ll admit I wouldn’t havewanted it any other way, and they’d have done the same thing in mysituation.

JA: Did Stan give you many suggestions or ideas? Did he tell you tothink or write in particular ways?

THOMAS: He was very much a teacher, at least in the early days. Lateron, he’d talk to me when something I’d written came in for proofreadingall lettered and inked, which was usually the first time he’d see it. Onthat first “Iron Man” story and those two “Dr. Stranges,” and at leastone or two “Millies,” he did go over my handwritten overlays before Ityped up the scripts. He’d say what amounted to: “Don’t think likethis,” or, “Think about what this guy would be thinking now.” That“Iron Man” story wound up about 50-50 between his dialogue andmine. He had liked my writing enough to hire me, and he wanted to seewhat I would do with a real story. Then he edited the heck out of me,which was only to be expected, I guess.

This became a problem over the next few months—also with DennyO’Neil, Steve Skeates, maybe one or two other new writers—becausewaiting till a story was lettered and inked before changing maybe ahundred words or more drove production manager Sol Brodskyabsolutely bonkers. Suddenly, even though a book needed to go out tothe printers, he had to do all these corrections on pages already letteredin ink. But that’s the way Stan felt he had to work at that time, becausehe was so busy.

Sometime around the turn of 1966, when I’d been there for severalmonths, Stan told me he’d decided that he’d been changing somedialogue because it needed changing, but he went on, “Sometimes, Ithink I’ve just been trying to make it read like Iwrote it instead of you, which doesn’t make anysense, because I’m not writing it.” I know Sol hadbeen pleading with him to ease up on the correc-tions. Stan said, “From now on, just show me thefirst and last page of any story you write, and ifthey’re okay, I’ll assume that the rest is okay, too.”[mutual laughter] After that, things went prettysmoothly. He rewrote a bit more later on my firstX-Men and maybe even Avengers, both of whichwere also handwritten first on overlays, but hestopped changing as much dialogue around the startof 1966.

JA: Before you came to Marvel, Stan tried outErnie Hart, Don Rico, Jerry Siegel, Leon Lazarus,and Robert Bernstein as writers. A lot of experi-enced people were taking the writing test...

THOMAS: Not to mention the hundred or sowho’d answered an ad for writers in The New YorkTimes and taken the writing test before me. SteveSkeates was there a few weeks before I was, but hecame to Stan’s attention through an article he wrotewhile in college, and I have no idea if he took thetest or not.

JA: Speaking as a fan, I’d have to say that those other guys didn’treally work out.

THOMAS: Well, Stan didn’t think they did, and that was what counted.Nobody you mentioned wrote more than a handful of stories; I guessBernstein wrote the most. Nobody had worked out to his satisfaction

except his brother Larry Lieber, but by the time I came along, Larry wasmainly doing Rawhide Kid. He didn’t really want to do super-heroes,even though he had written the early “Thors” and “Iron Mans”—appar-ently in full script. Larry says he never dialogued what came to be called“Marvel style”—i.e., after the art was done—on any super-hero work.Stan would give him the general storyline, and he’d write a full script.

JA: It seems to me that you were the first guy after Larry that Stanhad confidence in. Why do you think that was?

THOMAS: He was probably just getting tired. [laughter] You have toremember that all these other people, except maybe Larry, were experi-enced comic book artists and/or writers who’d been writing comics longbefore Stan started developing a relatively new approach to super-herowriting in the early 1960s. They were naturally still writing the waythey’d written previously, just trying to make a few adjustments.

For my part, I was of course influenced by the comics of the ’40s and’50s, and by the 1960s DC comics written by Gardner Fox and JohnBroome, and I admired Arnold Drake’s Doom Patrol, but I was moreopen to being powerfully influenced by Stan than older writers. Besidesknowing that I was supposed to write like him, I also felt that the Marvelbooks should be written like that. That was what was working for Stan,and even before I came to Marvel I felt he was writing the best comicson the stands.

I saw myself as a continuer, somebody who should just keep thebooks going with the same feel. Since I was a relatively blank slate, I wasable to do it. When Stan saw the couple of Charlton stories I’d writtenearlier in more of a Gardner Fox style, he wasn’t too impressed. It’sprobably a good thing I already had my job at Marvel at that point! I

Larry Lieber & FriendLarry Lieber, from the 1969F.F. Annual—and a page hepenciled for The AmazingSpider-Man Annual #5(1968), inked by Mike

Esposito—repro’d from aphotocopy sent by GlenDavid Gold. For the pastcouple of decades, Larryhas penciled the dailySpider-Man newspaperstrip written by brotherStan. [©2005 MarvelCharacters, Inc.]


think I was the right person in the rightplace at the right time, but there are otherpeople who, had they been there, mighthave been just as right.

Steve Skeates was hired a couple ofweeks before me, and I helped bringDenny O’Neil to Marvel only 3-4 monthslater, but somehow neither of themworked out as well from Stan’s point ofview. They ended up with their owndestinies and their own styles, and didvery well eventually at DC. Somehow, I fitmore naturally into what Stan felt heneeded. I’m glad I did.

JA: God knows what would havehappened to you career-wise if thathadn’t worked out.

THOMAS: I’d still be working for MortWeisinger. He’d have stuck around just totorture me! [Jim laughs]

“I Can’t Tell What The Hell’sGoing On Here!”

JA: How much involvement did MartinGoodman have in the Marvel books?

THOMAS: Mostly the covers, at thatstage. In 1961, of course, he’d told Stan tostart a super-hero group book, but oncethings got moving, I think he left most ofit to Stan. He’d just say yes or no when Stan had a new idea. Hewouldn’t have said, “Do a spider man,” because Stan says he hated theidea of a character named “Spider-Man” and thought it wouldn’t sell.And, however Sgt. Fury evolved—whether Kirby had developed theconcept earlier or whatever—Stan probably remembers correctly whenhe says he wanted to do a war book, just to prove he could sell one.

Maybe the precise team was already onJack’s shelf, since John Severinhas said Jack showed it to himearlier, but I doubt if Jack influ-enced Stan to do a war comic.

JA: Maybe Stan mentionedthe possibility of a war bookto Kirby, and Kirby—whoalready had Sgt. Fury athome—said, “Hey, I’ve gotthis idea!” Who knows howmuch of what Kirby originallyhad might have been tinkeredwith?

THOMAS: Nobody reallyknows. I wasn’t there when itwas started. To answer youroriginal question, Goodman hadlittle to do with the interiors,but Stans always says Goodman

had a good eye for covers, for what might or might not sell.Once around 1968-69 a Gene Colan Dr. Strange cover drawingwas submitted to Goodman, and he fired it back with a notesaying, “I can’t tell what the hell’s going on here!” Beautiful asthey were in their way, Gene’s covers weren’t always as clear as

Goodman felt covers needed to be.Goodman liked covers by certain peopleand disliked covers by others, and that’swhy Kirby and certain other guys endedup doing a lot of covers. I used the samesystem later with John Romita, Gil Kane,and people like that.

JA: When Kirby was doing covers, didhe and Stan talk about them before hedrew them?

THOMAS: Probably, mostly over thephone. Still, maybe Stan would sometimesjust say, “Do up a cover.” I wasn’tinvolved in that process, so I don’t reallyknow. Marvel’s covers weren’t subtle, andweren’t intended to be cute and ironic likea lot of covers nowadays. The cover wasusually pretty close to a scene from thebook, or something that symbolized thestory.

“The People In The OtherDepartments Looked Down On

The Comics”JA: Who else was working there whenyou started?

THOMAS: Not many people. Stan had anice big office in the corner, which wasbigger than the other two offices put

together. Next to him was a little office with room for 3-4 people, if youhad a shoehorn. Sol and Flo had their own desks in there, and when Icame I sat at this corrugated desk that was already there. Soon after, theybrought in Morrie Kuramoto as a staff letterer, and I think he worked inthere for a while, but it was crowded.

There was another, smaller office across the hall from ours—Denny


“I’d Like To Propose A Roast!”Though Rascally Roy worked with/for Smilin’ Stan from 1965-80 and since then on TVcartoons and other projects, this photo—taken at the Stan Lee Roast at the 1995 Chicago

Comic-Con—is one of the relatively few showing them together, in this case with the otherroasters. (Left to right:) Peter David, Chris Claremont, Jim Shooter, Roy, Stan, Sal Buscema,John Romita, Julie Schwartz. A transcription of the Roast appeared in A/E V3#1, which

is currently out of print; but one of these days…! Thanks to William Cain for the photo—and Godspeed home from the Middle East, Bill!

Publish Or Perish!This is one of several

caricatures of Timely/Marvelpublisher Martin Goodmanthat appeared in Krazy

Komics #12 (Nov. 1943). Art byEd Winarski? Thanks to JimVadeboncoeur, Jr. [©2005Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Before & AfterTwo other Marvel writers who were piped aboard in 1965—afew weeks before and 3 to 4 months after Roy, respectively:Steve Skeates (left) and Dennis O’Neil. Steve’s coming to

Marvel is related in the interview.

In early ’65, Denny, a St. Louis U. graduate, was a reporter forThe Southeast Missourian, the daily newspaper of Cape

Girardeau County, where Roy had been raised. Denny wrote apair of articles for it about comics—Roy’s mother mailed

copies to him in the St. Louis area, where he was teaching—the two 20-somethings got together—and Denny wrote a thirdcomics article for the paper, about Roy and comics fandom.Come fall, Roy sent Denny the same writer’s test he’d taken to

get his job at Marvel—and the rest is history of a sort.

Thanks to Bob Brodsky and Steve for the Skeates photo, and to the Denster himself for his own. Bob is editor/publisher ofThe O’Neil Observer, a fanzine dedicated to Denny’s work andrelated matters (esp. re comic book writing). This summer,Bob’s Childhood Summer Publications is also launching The Yancy Street Gazette, dedicated to the Marvel Age ofComics, 1961-1975, whose first issue will feature material onGerry Conway, Steve Gerber, Roy Thomas, and much more.

To learn more about both publications, e-mail [email protected].

$5.95In the USA

No.50July2005

PLUS:PLUS:

Roy Thomas’ Dynamic DC

Comics Fanzine

FOUR FABULOUS, FUN-FILLED DECADES WITH:ADAMS * ALCALA * AYERS * BUCKLER * BRODSKY * THE BROS. BUSCEMA * CHAN * COLANCOLÓN * DITKO * EVERETT * FOX * GIORDANO * GOLDBERG * HECK * INFANTINO * KANEKIRBY * LARK * LEE * MACHLAN * McFARLANE * ORDWAY * PÉREZ * PUGH * ROBBINS * ROMITAROTH * SCHWARTZ * THE SEVERIN SIBLINGS * SHAW! * SMITH * TRIMPE * TUSKA * WEISINGER—not to mention the FAVORITE COMIC BOOK WRITERS & EDITORS OF THE 20th CENTURY!

Art ©2005 Jerry Ordway;Characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics

Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA.Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: [email protected]. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues:$8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © theirrespective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM ofRoy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada.

FIRST PRINTING.

™

ContentsWriter/Editorial: Up, Up—And Away! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2Comic Crypt: The Fox And The Fan. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3Michael T. Gilbert showcases Roy’s 1961 letters to veteran-pro idol Gardner Fox.

Two Weeks With Mort Weisinger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9Roy relates why those 8-9 days in 1965 were like four years with an angry mob!

“1965 – AWatershed Year” (For Roy Thomas, Among Others) . . . . . 13A brief word by Bill Schelly about how and why Roy jumped ship from DC to Marvel.

Roy Thomas Checklist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16An illustrated and annotated guide to forty years of comic book writing and editing.

“The Company He Keeps…” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26The Comic Buyer’s Guide 2000 poll of 20th-century comics favorites, annotated by Peter Sanderson.

The Doctor Is In! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33Found: more “Dr. Mid-Nite” art from that long-lost mid-1940s “Justice Society” story!

The Angels of A/E . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34A Too-Brief Intro To Five Who Made Alter Ego What It Is Today—Whatever That Is!

FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #108 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37P.C. Hamerlinck & John G. Pierce on Roy’s Fawcett Connection—plus Marc Swayze.

“Roy The Boy” In TheMarvel AgeOfComics. . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us!People always said you’ve gotta stand on your head to appreciate Roy Thomas.

About Our Cover: We didn’t quite have room enough there to squeeze in this entire JusticeSociety-plus illustration by Jerry Ordway—so you’ll see it in full on the very next page! And yes,we noticed that Hawkman and Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman are the Silver Age/Earth-One versionsof that pair, while of course Johnny Quick never was a JSAer—but collector Michael Dunne, whocommissioned Jerry to do this great drawing, agrees with Ralph Waldo Emerson (and Ye Editor)that “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” Thanks to both Michael and Jerry fortheir blessing to use the piece as the perfect cover for the more-or-less “DC side” of Roy’s 40th-anniversary issue! Oh, and the cover photo of Roy was taken by a professional photographer backin the 1980s, as a gift from his and Dann’s good friend Jennie-Lynn Falk, namesake of Jade’s alterego. [Art ©2005 Jerry Ordway; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Above: We figured that most readers, even those halfway familiar with the work done byRoy Thomas since 1965, would be thrown for a loss by the use on our cover of the phrase“The Dragon Delinquent!”—so here it is again, on our capricious contents page! Roy’s articleon pp. 9-11 will explain why it appears in both spots—and why the image atop this page is theCurt Swan/George Klein cover for Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #91 (March 1966).[©2005 DC Comics.]

Vol. 3, No. 50 / July 2005EditorRoy Thomas

Associate EditorsBill SchellyJim Amash

Design & LayoutChristopher Day

Consulting EditorJohn Morrow

FCA EditorP.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt EditorMichael T. Gilbert

Editors EmeritusJerry Bails (founder)Ronn Foss, Biljo White,Mike Friedrich

Production AssistantEric Nolen-Weathington

Cover ArtistsJerry OrdwayAlfredo Alcala, John Buscema,& Jack Kirby

Cover ColoristTom Ziuko, Alfredo Alcala (portrait)

And Special Thanks to:

Roy Thomas ShamelesslyCelebrates 50 Issues of

A/E, Vol. 3—& 40 Years Since“The Dragon Delinquent!”

Alfredo Alcala, Jr.Christian VoltanAlcala

Estelita AlcalaHeidi AmashHeather AntonelliBob BaileyJeff BaileyMark BeazleyJohn BensonDominic BongoBob BrodskyRich BucklerMike BurkeyWilliam CainR. Dewey CassellErnie ChanLynda Fox CohenTeresa R. DavidsonMichael DewallyShel DorfMichael DunneJennie-Lynn FalkShane FoleyJeff FoxCarl GaffordJanet GilbertDick GiordanoGlen David GoldStan GoldbergBob GreenbergerCurt GriffIan HamerlinckJennifer HamerlinckDavid G. HamiltonDaniel HermanRichard HowellKaren HughesStan LeeLarry LieberAlan Light

Allen LoganLinda LongDon MangusSam MaronieMike MikulovskyAl MilgromFred MommsenBrian K. MorrisFrank MotlerOwen O’LearyDenny O’NeilDave NewtonJerry OrdwayTom PalmerGeorge PérezDon PerlinMike PhoenixJohn G. PierceNick PopeGreg PrestonRichard PryorEthan RobertsPeter SandersonEric SchumacherCarole SeulingGwen SeulingMarie SeverinRick ShurginDavid SiegelKeif SimonJoe & Betty SinnottPaul SmithZack SmithBritt StantonFlo SteinbergMarc SwayzeDann ThomasMaggie ThompsonJim Vadeboncoeur, Jr.Tom WimbishMichele Wolfman

This issue is dedicated by Roy tohis mother–––MRS. LEONA THOMAS

ike I was saying in my editorial on the flip side—you may find ita wee bit tricky to decide which side of this issue you read first!

That’s partly because, although probably my major “claim to fame,”such as it is, is the fifteen years I spent with Stan Lee and Marvel from1965-1980, I actually arrived in Manhattan in late June ’65 to accept astaff position at DC Comics (then National Periodicals) under“Superman” editor Mort Weisinger. But in very early July, after onlytwo weeks, I was “up, up, and away” to Marvel, as detailed in thefollowing three pieces. Still, it was my entrée into the wacky world ofprofessional comic books—and it’s unlikely I’d ever have moved to NewYork City without that offer from Mort. The end result, for me, hasbeen a rewarding 40-year career as a comics writer and ofttimes editor—including returning to DC in the 1980s to develop All-Star Squadronand other titles.

My flip-side writer/editorial lists some of the items that had to betossed overboard to keep the good ship Alter Ego #50 afloat even at 108

pages—indeed, there’s hardly space to do more than acknowledge thatsaid milestone has been reached. But “50” is only a number, after all—not really that much different from #49 or #51.

Even so, I wanted to call particular attention in this issue to our fourregular contributing editors—Bill Schelly, Jim Amash, Michael T.Gilbert, and P.C. Hamerlinck—and to A/E’s poor overworked layoutguru Christopher Day. You can meet the men behind the mag on pp.34-36. Thanks, guys! It’s been a blast so far—and if the best isn’t yet tocome, it sure won’t be for lack of our trying, right?

Onward: to keep DC-related material in roughly chronological order,we’re starting this time with Michael T. Gilbert’s “Comic Crypt”section—which actually goes back to 1960-61, but deals with the periodthat sowed the seeds for the DC offer in ’65...!

Bestest,

2 Title

Up, Up––And Away!writer/editorial

Here, as promised a whole page ago, is a full-art version of Jerry Ordway’s gorgeous JSA-and-friends illo, as sent to us by collector Michael Dunne and printedwith both lads’ permission. We wanted you to see the whole drawing, in untrammeled black-&-white. Hey, maybe one of these days we can even print Jerry’s

original layout for the piece, which has a couple of the heroes in different positions! [Art ©2005 Jerry Ordway; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

LL

[The above art is a detail from Michael’s cover for the 1999 revised editionof Bill Schelly’s book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom.]

his article saw print, in a slightly differentform, in Comic Book Marketplace #58 (April1998), in conjunction with other material

about longtime DC editor Mort Weisinger. I wasasked to write a few paragraphs for a sidebar on mybrief experience with him, and got carried away, as ismy wont. Article ©2005 Roy Thomas. Our thanks toRuss Cochran for his blessing to reprint it here, and toBrian K. Morris for a typing assist.

Since I was one of Mort Weisinger’s “discoveries”—though maybe “fiascos” is the word he’d have used—Ifelt it was high time I exorcised a few demons by writingabout him.

Back in early-’60s comics fandom, Mort’s six“Superman” titles, clearly aimed at a younger audiencethan fellow DC editor Julius Schwartz’s mags, werepretty much taken for granted and rarely discussed infanzines. Alter Ego, for instance, devoted a lot of space to the JusticeSociety and Captain Marvel, but practically none to the super-herowho’d started it all.

Because I corresponded from 1960-65 with Julie Schwartz, I knew heand Mort had been friends since even before they’d published one of thevery first science-fiction fanzines back in the ’30s, but I knew little elseabout Mort. Still, when I wrote virtually my only fan letter to a“Superman” mag—one concerning Herko the Monster in a “Lois Lane”

tale, because he remindedme of old Captain Marvelcreatures (and why not?the artist was KurtSchaffenberger!)—Weisinger responded witha courteous letter. As I didwith every other pro Iknew of, I sent him freebiecopies of A/E [Vol. 1] #7-8in ’64 and early ’65.

Then, in spring of ’65,only days after accepting agraduate fellowship inforeign relations that wasto be my ticket out ofteaching high school, Ireceived a second letterfrom Weisinger—offeringme a trial position atNational/DC as hisassistant. My fellowteacher Albert Tindall—theguy who’d wangled thefellowship for me andwho’d go on to become aprominent attorney inMissouri—wasdumbfounded that, after

pacing our apartment for half an hour, I accepted Mort’s offer andturned my back on an academic career. But, having sent two samplecomics scripts earlier to Julie, and having just sold two scripts toCharlton, I wasn’t about to turn down a chance to work in the comicsindustry! (Besides, truth to tell, I had till summer’s end to formally rejectthe fellowship, so I could hedge my bets.)

Mort offered me a starting salary of $110 a week (about what I wasthen making as a teacher) and a two-month trial period. I borrowed andread a box full of “Superman” comics from my friend Biljo White,bought a new suit—and waited eagerly for summer.

During that time I spoke only once with Mort on the phone. Oneday he called me at school, out of the blue, for a reason I can’t recall. AllI remember of the brief conversation is his speaking of “the Supermanmythology.” By then I’d come to respect, at least to a certain extent,what he was doing with Bizarro, Imaginary Stories, way too manysurviving Kryptonians, and all those shades of Kryptonite.

At his invitation, I also wrote a “Jimmy Olsen” script in which theyoung reporter went undercover to join a youthful street gang. I felt itneeded more pages than the usual eight, but Mort said that was impos-sible, so I wrote it in eight and sent it off. Mort soon advised me that hewanted a rewrite, but said that could follow when I got to New York. Iwas paid a $50 advance (the rate was $10 a page), to help pay for the airflight out.

And so, on the last Monday in June, I arrived in Manhattan in themidst of a taxi strike, and carried my one suitcase and portable electrictypewriter more than a dozen blocks to the DC offices at 575 LexingtonAvenue. I was so excited that I accidentally passed right by the StandardBrands Building wherein DC was located, and had to backtrack a coupleof blocks carrying my increasingly heavy load.

That day I met Mort Weisinger—and everything started to go wrong.

Two Weeks With Mort Weisinger9

TT

Or, Four Years With An Angry Mob (Take Your Pick)A Reminiscence by Roy Thomas

Superman’s Pal, Roy ThomasRoy, seen at left circa 1947-48, was clearly already a

Superman fan by age 7—nearly two decades away fromwriting the script that would form the basis of the story“The Dragon Delinquent!” in Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen#91 (March 1966). Art by Pete Costanza; script by Leo

Dorfman. What? Never heard that R.T. was associated withthat particular tale? Read on! The photo, by the way, wasthe sole visual that appeared with this article when it wasoriginally published in Comic Book Marketplace. Withthanks to Mrs. Leona Thomas. [©2005 DC Comics.]

Time Travellers TwoThis photo of longtime friends and DC

editors Mort Weisinger (seated) and JuliusSchwartz—who as teenagers had launchedThe Time Traveller, one of the first science-fiction fanzines, and had soon opened an sfliterary agency—appeared in The AmazingWorlds of DC Comics #3 (Nov. 1974). But ithad probably been taken a few yearsearlier, since Mort retired in 1970 and

passed away in 1978.

Name: Roy William Thomas, Jr. (b. 1940) (writer,editor)

Pen Name: Justin Arthur (Conan the Barbarian #240 only)

Education: B.S. in Education, Southeast Missouri State University,1961; Master’s degree in Humanities from California State University,2005

Non-Comics Influences: Joseph Heller, Homer, Robert E. Howard,William Shakespeare

Comics Writing/Editing Influences: Stan Lee, Joe Simon & JackKirby, Walt Kelly, Harvey Kurtzman, Otto Binder, Gardner Fox, JuliusSchwartz

Member: CAPA-Alpha, 1965-66

Contributing Writer: All in Color for aDime (1970 book, reprinted from Xero #9, 1962); introductions tovarious Chronicles of Conan [Dark Horse], DC Archives, MarvelMasterworks, and other books related to comic books

Comics Based on Atari Video Games: Atari Force (1982, mostlywritten by Gerry Conway); Swordquest (limited distribution; some co-written with Gerry Conway)—both done through DC

Writer (Special Material): Marvel’s Carnegie Hall Concert, Jan. 1972

Writer: Topps Batman cards 1966 (some with Gary Friedrich?) & super-hero parodies c. 1967

[NOTE: The following is adapted from informationsupplied by Dr. Jerry G. Bails in his Who’s Who of20th-Century Comic Books. Those interested inbeing informed when Jerry’s updated version of theWho’s Who will be available should e-mail him [email protected]. Some data added by RoyThomas. Except where otherwise noted, all creditsbelow are for writing or co-writing (often, esp. after1981, with wife Dann Thomas). Roy was alsoofficially the editor of material he wrote at Marvelfrom late 1972-1981, and of his DC work from1983-89, but that status is not generally noted in thisChecklist. Titles not in italics often refer to featureswhich appeared at various times both in their ownmagazines and in anthologies. Key: (e) = editor;(n.c.) = no credit; G.A. = Golden Age.]

Innocents Abroad?(Above:) Dann and Roy at the Vatican,

2003—and (right) a caricature of the happycouple done by artist Paul Smith for Roy’s1979 birthday bash, near the end of YeEditor’s first stint as writer of Marvel’sConan mags. [Art ©2005 Paul Smith.]

Roy ThomasChecklist

Will The Non-Pérez F.F.Art Please Sit Down?

(Right center:) For a Marvel-UKreprinting of the ImpossibleMan-starring F.F. #178 (Nov.1976), whose tale had to bebroken into two weekly parts,this new panel (prepared by theNew York staff—artists andwriter uncertain) depicts aconference between GeorgePérez, Stan Lee, Roy, and Jack

Kirby. It replaces a Pérez/Sinnottpanel which had been printed atthe end of the first part, and led directly into thefollowing four-panel sequence in the second:

(Bottom center:) Pérez/Sinnott panels from F.F. #176of that selfsame story conference. Script by R.T.

(Far right:) For sitting through all that, we figure youdeserve to see this actual sketch of the F.F., courtesy

of artist George Pérez and collector Curt Griff.

[Panel art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; sketch©2005 George Pérez; Fantastic Four TM & ©2005

Marvel Characters, Inc.]

16

oy here, relating all art captions and italicized paragraphsthat follow—with Peter’s analysis in non-italicized textbelow: In issues dated January 2000, the popular tabloid-

format Comic Buyer’s Guide, under editor Maggie Thompson,conducted a wide-ranging poll of comic book fans and professionalsalike concerning their “Favorite” writers, editors, artists, stories,companies, etc., of the 20th century—while emphasizing that“Favorite” is not necessarily the same thing as “Best.”

While naturally no poll of this sort can ever be anything like defin-itive, the project was intriguing as the major experiment of its kind—and I’d be a liar if I said I wasn’t both surprised and gratified, whenthe results were announced, to find myself ranked #5 among“Favorite Writers” and #4 among “Favorite Editors.” If, as they say,a man is known by the company he keeps, I was pleased to findmyself in some very formidable company—and while I wouldn’targue overmuch with those who’d place me somewhat (or evenconsiderably) lower on those particular totem poles, I decided to usethe occasion of this 50th issue of Alter Ego to recapitulate andcomment upon the selection, half a decade later. All specific artand photos, incidentally, have been added for this A/Epresentation.

The CBG poll was conducted and its resultsannounced on three levels, as explained and defined inthe magazine itself: the voting of “General Fandom,” of“Comics Professionals,” and “CBG Readers.” The resultsin the three areas were listed separately, with the top 13 to

15 choices listedin the first twodivisions, andthe top 26 to 30in the “CBG”division. Theresults areroughly summarized below after each division. The Comic Buyer’sGuide gave special prominence to the five “Favorite” creators in eachcategory as averaged from the above three divisions; so it’s thosechoices that are analyzed below, in brief professional biographieswritten by comics historian and longtime Marvel staffer PeterSanderson.

While this issue covers only the “Writer” and “Editor” choices, it isplanned that in a near-future issue Peter will discuss the results of thepoll in artistic and other categories. And a special thanks to MaggieThompson, senior editor of Comic Buyer’s Guide, and to KrausePublications, for permission to utilize this one-of-a-kind poll.

And now, with no further ado, I turn you over to the blandish-ments of Peter Sanderson….

The Favorite Editors of the Century(1) STAN LEE. Starting out as a teenage “go-fer” at Timely

Comics in the early 1940s, Stan Lee quickly

The cover of Comic Buyer’s Guide #1365 (Jan. 14, 2000), which spotlighted the poll of pros and fans

examined in this article. Art by John Drury.[©2005 Krause Publications, Inc.]

“The CompanyHe Keeps…”The Comic Buyer’s Guide’s 1999-2000 Poll

Of Comic Book “Favorites”by Peter Sanderson, with Roy Thomas

RR

The Not-So-Secret Origins Of Marvel ComicsStan Lee in the mid-1970s—plus the splash pages of thetwo most important stories he ever edited (as well aswrote). Fantastic Four #1 (Oct. 1961) inaugurated a newapproach to super-heroes with dynamic penciler/co-plotter Jack Kirby and an unidentified inker—while in

Amazing Fantasy #15 (Aug. 1962) Stan as editor replacedthe redoubtable Kirby with Steve Ditko as artist of the

very first “Spider-Man” tale, thereby mutating that “newapproach” yet further, since Ditko would prove to beunsurpassed in his ability to convey everyday emotionand events in a super-hero feature. The instincts shownin both these choices are what make for a great editor,

though of course he had the ideal writer working for him,as well—namely, himself. [©2005 Marvel Characters.]

26

ou don’t get to 50 issues of a magazine like Alter Ego—or at leastI didn’t—without the enthusiastic help of people who are just asnutty about the subject matter as the editor is.

Actually, in A/E’s case, there are seven people in particular I ought tothank—eight, if I count my old friend Jerry G. Bails, who founded thefanzine in 1961 and has given inestimable help to this volume, as well—because I should definitely include John Morrow, the lesser half ofTwoMorrows Publishing, and TwoMorrows staffer Eric Nolen-Weathington, who’s been aboard for several years himself. But, alas,we’ll have to cover John and Eric another time. (Oh, and thanks to JonB. Cooke for convincing me to revive A/E in 1998!)

But I did whatever squeezing had to be done in order to introducethe four guys who basically edit their own segments of each issue beforeI get a chance at them, plus one who then assembles the magazine fromthe marked-up text files and art copies I ship him each month. BillSchelly has been listed as associate editor since V3#1, and also handles

the vital “Comic Fandom Archive” section—Jim Amash came aboardwith #11, at the time of his first A/E interview (with Vince Fago), andeven helps with the proofreading of each issue—Michael T. Gilbert hasbeen on hand every single time with his always-intriguing “ComicCrypt”—P.C. Hamerlinck segued his ambitious incarnation of FCA(Fawcett Collectors of America) over into A/E with V3#1, and, just thelike other three, has never missed a deadline! Neither has ChristopherDay, who assumed layout responsibilities on the mag with #8, and overthe past few years has bailed me out of innumerable tough spots—including this issue.

At the last minute, I asked each of this fabulous fivesome to rush mebrief auto-bios. So let’s hear a hearty hand for these tireless “Angels ofAlter Ego”! Thanks, guys. I couldn’t do it without you.

Fact is, as you well know—I can barely do it with you!

But now, I’ll let you speak for yourselves…!

Bill SchellyI was born in 1951 in Walla Walla,

Washington. For as long as I can remember,I’ve wanted to be a writer. When I was a kidof 9 or 10, I wrote short stories and even triedto write a novel. With my discovery of comicsfandom in 1964, I found my métier: fanzinepublishing. I think I’ve had printer’s ink in myblood ever since.

I stayed active in fandom, publishing a slew of marginal-qualityzines like Super-Heroes Anonymous, Fantasy Forum, Incognito, andmy best-known, Sense of Wonder. But when I was rejected by DC’s“new talent” program in 1973, I drifted away from comics until I gotmy feet on the ground. My first book was Harry Langdon, ahardcover from Scarecrow Press, which came out in 1982.

In 1985, when I took a job in a building that also housed a comicsspecialty store, my interest in comic books was re-kindled, and it wasjust a year later than I opened Super Comics and Collectibles, the firstcomics store in Seattle’s University District. But it wasn’t until Ilinked up with some old fandom cronies in the pages of CAPA-Alphathat I began researching what became the first book-length history offandom, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom (1995). In the course ofwriting and designing that book, I asked Roy Thomas if he wouldwrite its introduction. Thus began a sort of fandom partnership withthe Rascally One that led to my role as associate editor of the newAlter Ego. In fact, I was the one who introduced John Morrow toRoy (at the 1997 Chicago comicon), which got the ball rolling.

The past dozen years since my re-entry into the wonderful andwacky world of Comicdom have been the most creative and prolifictimes of my life. I love being a small part of the new Alter Ego story,and only wish there were more hours in the day so that I couldcontribute more. Oh, and one other thing: I haven’t lost my sense ofwonder!

Jim AmashI was always interested in art. I was fascinated by George

“Superman” Reeves on television and started drawing him. But being afickle sort at 5 years old, I diverted my attention to Batman whenAdam West turned up in the cape and cowl in January of 1966. So Idrew super-heroes and villains fighting on brown paper bags, intextbooks, on the living room walls (behind the couch, of course), onsidewalks, and in tunnels. I thought I had my future well in hand,because I was going to be a comic book artist.

I quickly learned there was more to being an artist than drawingheroes and villains knocking each other’s teeth out. My first gradehistory book was full of exciting stories about the founding of thiscountry. The pages were full of detailed drawings, engravings, andpainted scenes of Daniel Boone taming the wilderness, GeorgeWashington liberating the American Colonies from British rule, andAbraham Lincoln freeing the slaves and saving the Union. Ontelevision, I saw Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, and RobertoClemente fighting a very different kind of battle. All these influencestaught me that heroes come in all shapes, colors, uniforms, eras, and

YY

34

The Angels of Alter EgoA Too-Brief Intro To Five Who Made A/EWhat It Is Today—Whatever That Is!

by Roy Thomas

[Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

look at R.T.’s own special “Fawcett connection” over the years, as bothfan and pro, as examined by regular contributor John G. Pierce and byFCA’s editor—and then, from an earlier issue of FCA, in RT’s ownwords….

I. A Tribute To A Fannish Influenceby John G. Pierce

Edited By P.C. HamerlinckIt was not long after I discovered Julius Schwartz’s early Silver Age comics, in the

late 1950s, that I also discovered Roy Thomas. He was there, in those entertainingletter columns, and it was he who first referenced an earlier age of comicdom that I’dmissed out on. It was Roy who first alluded to the original versions of The Flash,Green Lantern, and other characters. In fact, my own very first published letter, inThe Flash, picked up on a point made by Roy in an earlier letter of his own.

Not long after all that, in early 1961, Alter-Ego #1 turned up my mailbox. It wasthe first fanzine I’d ever seen or even heard of. And was I surprised that there hisname was as co-editor of this marvelous publication? I no longer recall, but if so, Iprobably shouldn’t have been. Roy’s articles, not only in A/E but in other fanzines,as well, informed me about the Golden Age. He covered Timely’s All Winners Squadin A/E #2, for example.

In another fanzine named Spotlite, he wrote aboutPlastic Man. And then there was his entertaining “CaptainBilly’s Whiz Gang” in the 9th issue of the Lupoffs’ Xero,which treated the other Fawcett stars such as Bulletman,Spy Smasher, et al. It was this piece, incidentally, whichprovided the first mention of Fawcett’s one-and-onlyattempt at a JSA-type group, the Crime Crusaders Clubfrom Master Comics #41.

But it wasn’t just articles. For Alter Ego, Roy also

Countdown to XeroFCA and Alter Ego have both printed the 1946-47 photo ofRoy at age 6, sporting his Captain Marvel sweater—so we’lllead off with this mid-1940s Fawcett house ad. The cover artfrom an oversize issue of Gift Comics, spotlighting CaptainMarvel, Spy Smasher, Bulletman, Mr. Scarlet, Golden Arrow,and Ibis the Invincible, was adapted by R.T. as the title artfor his article “Captain Billy’s Whiz Gang” in the 9th issue of

the Lupoffs’ legendary sf/comics fanzine Xero in 1962.[Heroes TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Cap’n Biljo & Corporal RoyIn 1964, fan-artist Biljo White let his fellow Missourian Roy research

his virtually complete collection of comics featuring CaptainMarvel and his offshoots for Roy’s Alley-winning article “One

Man’s Family” in Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #7.

For the illo at right, which accompanied the piece, Biljo adaptedC.C. Beck’s classic cover for Marvel Family #10

(April 1947), on which Cap and kin are beating up Dr. Sivana’s.Wonder how they’d all have fared on Family Feud!?

[Characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

AA

Touting ThomasRoy Thomas Spotlighted By John G. Pierce, P.C. Hamerlinck—And, Er, Roy Thomas

41

wrote a prose story, with spot illustrations, of his own proposed revivalof The Spectre. And, of course, who can forget his delightfully funnyparody of the JLA, “The Bestest League of America”?

Roy and I appeared together in a fanzine called Headline, publishedby Roy’s fellow Missourian, and future Marvel co-worker, Steve Gerber.Roy wrote about some of his childhood creations, while I contributedoriginal prose fiction in the form of stories about a creation of minecalled The Black Hand—a Spectre imitation! So Roy was partly respon-sible for my own contributions to that fanzine, as well as his own!

But perhaps my favorite piece of his came in A/E #7 (1964), with his“One Man’s Family,” an article about Fawcett’s Marvel Family. Oddlyenough, though Captain Marvel was mentioned from time to time inearly fanzines, there weren’t really all that many articles about him. (Theearlier articles which had appeared in Xero aren’t counted here, becausethat was a science-fiction fanzine, and besides, I never saw those pieces!)So Roy’s loving treatise on not just Cap, but the rest of the clan as well,was most welcomed. I’d have to say that this one piece went a long waytoward fueling my growing interest inCaptain Marvel, foreshadowing the daywhen I would become a full-blownFawcett fan, collector, the publisher ofmy own Marvel Family fanzine (TheWhiz Kids), and a writer of articles aboutthe Big Red Cheese and his companions.

But then Roy broke into the comicsindustry. Should this have been a surprise,either? Anyone with his love of anddevotion to the four-color world wasbound to end up in the field. In fact, itwould be hard to imagine such a personas thriving anywhere else. He started atDC, and almost before anyone was thewiser, he was over at Marvel. (I have to behonest and say that, while I read some ofRoy’s stuff from Marvel, there’s quite alot I didn’t read, as well. I know it ispractically a first-order heresy in fandomto admit this, but I’ve never been a greatMarvel enthusiast.)

However, I was there when Roy tookover a character named Captain Mar-Vell(for the second time), and turned thatname-stealer into an updated, Marvelizedversion of the original, as he linked theHulk’s former ally, Rick Jones, with Capvia Nega-Bands. The slamming togetherof the wrist-bands brought Cap from hisimprisonment in the Negative Zone,while sending Rick there, and vice versa—his own version of yelling “Shazam!”With outstanding Gil Kane art, Marvel’sCaptain Marvel became a feature worthfollowing for a while. As Rick Jones wasfond of saying at the time, it was “faaan-tastic.”

And then came 1981, with Roy’sreturn to DC. And what should he write,upon his return, but one of his GoldenAge favorites, the DC version of theoriginal Captain Marvel! A letter fromhim to me, dated Oct. 10, 1980, informedme of this, as well as some of his plans foranother old favorite, the JSA, in the form

of All-Star Squadron. It was almost too much excitement for me tobear—the JSA (and hangers-on from the early ’40s) having their ownfeature again, and Captain Marvel being handled by Roy?

Oh, admittedly, I wasn’t too crazy about his idea of a totally new,Earth-1 Captain Marvel, drawn in a more realistic style. “I’m sorry ifthis isn’t your idea of a ‘Captain Marvel fan,’ I really am,” Roy wrote.“I simply feel that, much as I often dislike the idea, ‘that was then, thisis now.’”

However, I was quite enthusiastic about what Roy had told me abouthis story for DC Comics Presents #33-34, as his letter continued: “Still,just to be inconsistent, I took the opportunity in DC Presents #34 totoss Superman and Captain Marvel (whom I’m trying to forge into fastfriends, since they have far more in common than Superman andBatman, say) into a funny-animal dimension, while using Hoppy theMarvel Bunny for the first time in 30 years.” Although I had heardabout Hoppy back in the early ’60s, it was that aforementioned “OneMan’s Family” article in A/E #7 which had provided me with my first

look at the character (in the form of aBiljo White re-creation illustration) andmore information about him. And eversince, I had loved the idea of a rabbitversion of the Big Red Cheese. So tocontemplate his return, even if only forone story, generated more fannishexcitement than I’d had in years!

And that story (co-plotted by GerryConway) turned out to be good fun, too,

42 Roy Thomas Spotlighted By John G. Pierce, P.C. Hamerlinck—And, Er, Roy Thomas

The Magic Went AwayIn a slightly grittier vein than the 1939-40 original by writer/editor Bill Parkerand artist C.C. Beck, scripters Roy &

Dann Thomas and artist Tom Mandrakeportray the first time Billy Batsonchanges into the World’s Mightiest

Mortal, in Shazam! The New Beginning#1 (April 1986). (The fact that this pageis repro’d from a Spanish-languageedition shouldn’t confuse anybody allthat much.) Roy appreciates hearingthat then-DC editorial head honcho

Dick Giordano confirmed to John Piercewhat Roy’s always maintained: thatsales on that 4-issue series should’veled to a full-scale monthly Shazam!

ALTER EGO #50ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics(AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON,INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GILKANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and manyothers! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters toGARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA andJERRY ORDWAY!

(100-page magazine) $5.95(Digital Edition) $2.95

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