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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 11TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA CRIMINAL DIVISION CASE NO.: F10-06571 STATE OF FLORIDA,

6 Plaintiff, 7 vs. 8 MICHELLE SPENCE-JONES, 9 Defendant. 10 __________________________/ 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:15 a.m. - 11:55 a.m. 1350 Northwest 12 Avenue Miami, Florida DEPOSITION OF ARMANDO CODINA

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1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 INDEX 20 21 WITNESS RE- RE DIRECT CROSS DIRECT CROSS PODHURST ORSECK, P.A. (BY ROBERT C. JOSEFSBERG, ESQ.) 25 West Flagler Street Suite 800 Miami, Florida 33130 On behalf of the Witness. SCOTT A. SREBNICK, P.A. (BY SCOTT A. SREBNICK, ESQ.) 201 Biscayne Boulevard Suite 1380 Miami, Florida 33131 On behalf of the Witness. PETER RABEN, P.A. (BY PETER RABEN, ESQ.) 150 West Flagler Street Suite 2850 Miami, Florida 33130 On behalf of the Defendant. OFFICE OF THE STATE ATTORNEY (BY W. RICHARD SCRUGGS, ASA and CHRISTINE ZAHRALBAN,ASA) 1350 Northwest 12 Avenue Miami, Florida 33125 On behalf of the Plaintiff.

22 ARMANDO CODINA 23 By Mr. Scruggs By Mr. Raben 24 25 3 75

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1 Whereupon, 2 ARMANDO CODINA

3 after having been first duly sworn, was examined and 4 testified as follows: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Codina. Obviously, you know

8 myself, Richard Scruggs, we've met before, but I don't 9 think you met Ms. Zahralban. 10 11 A. Yes, I did. Q. Okay, Ms. Christine Zahralban, she's my partner

12 in this particular case, and, you know, I'd like to put 13 on the record, obviously, you have your counsel here, 14 Mr. Srebnick and Mr. -- what's your name again? I'm 15 sorry, Mr. Josefsberg, I think. 16 Mr. Raben's here, and what we're doing today is

17 that you have been listed as a defense witness in the 18 case of State of Florida versus Michelle Spence-Jones. 19 You were listed by Mr. Raben as such. 20 Obviously, we've talked to you before, I guess a

21 year or so ago, whenever it was, as a prosecution 22 witness, but I think it was in June of this year that 23 Mr. Raben listed you also as a defense witness, which 24 then put us in a position where, especially right before 25 trial, I issued a subpoena to you through Mr. Josefsberg

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1 to bring you in to depose you as a defense witness, so 2 the idea would be, then, that I would find out what 3 testimony, if any, that you would present at trial that 4 would, in effect, benefit the defendant or that Mr. 5 Raben would feel would be relevant to his case, okay? 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. (Nodding head.) MR. RABEN: Just if I could clarify one thing -MR. SCRUGGS: Sure. MR. RABEN: Everything that you said is correct, but I want to add, in the event it becomes relevant, that Mr. Codina is also on the State's witness list. MR. SCRUGGS: Yes, I just said that. MR. RABEN: And that you had originally arranged to depose him several months ago, but you had canceled it, so the lateness of the scheduling of the deposition was a result of a convenience strategy that you opted for.

18 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 19 Q. Correct, I don't dispute that at all. The timing

20 of this is totally of my doing, not Mr. Raben's doing. 21 One thing I will need you to do, though, is that

22 you need to answer the questions yes, no, or whatever. 23 You need to do it verbally so the court reporter can 24 take it down. 25 If I interrupt you, just, you know, tell me to be

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1 quiet. I want to give you the chance to state whatever 2 is your testimony in whatever way you wish to do so, 3 okay? 4 5 6 A. (Nodding head.) Yes, sir. Q. Okay, I was just going to say, you're getting off

7 to a bad start there. 8 Mr. Codina, I've been informed by your counsel

9 that you're upset or angry with the State or perhaps 10 even with myself, and one of the things, obviously, that 11 Mr. Raben and I both would be interested in, from both 12 our perspectives, would be whether you had a bias 13 against either, obviously, Mr. Raben or his defendant or 14 against the State and who I represent, and given the 15 fact that I've been told that I -- obviously, I never 16 talked to you about that, but I have been told, anyway, 17 that you're upset or angry with the State, and I'd just 18 like to ask you why. 19 This is your chance to say whatever it is you

20 want to say. 21 A. Actually, I'm very fond of the State. Really, I

22 love the State. 23 24 Q. Well, let me change the question. Are you upset with the prosecution team or the

25 prosecutors or anything that we've done?

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A. I've been disappointed at some of what was

2 unveiled, but I'm not angry at you, but I am 3 disappointed. 4 Q. Well, but I'd like to know why. I mean, because

5 if I've done something wrong or if I made a mistake, you 6 know, I'm accountable for it, so could you please tell 7 me, then, what you mean? 8 A. Well, I think the way that this was initially

9 portrayed and some of what I've learned since the time 10 that I met with you, I'm disappointed in what I've 11 learned from the facts. 12 13 14 Q. Please tell me what you mean. A. Okay. Q. Yes. No, this is the opportunity for you to --

15 we're going to lay everything out on the table here, 16 good, bad and indifferent, okay, so -17 A. Okay. Before I came to see you, before we met, I

18 was under the impression that I had given a charitable 19 contribution for funds to be spent by the Dade Community 20 Foundation at an event to be hosted by an organization 21 for Barbara -- in honor of Barbara Carey-Shuler. 22 However, when Mr. Josefsberg and I met with you

23 here, you told me that there had not been an event. 24 Q. Well, okay, that could have been a

25 misunderstanding, but go ahead. I believe I told you

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1 that the money had not been spent for the event -2 3 A. Well, you -Q. -- but that could be a difference. I hear what

4 you said. 5 A. Mr. Scruggs, I didn't come here to argue with

6 you. 7 8 Q. Nor I, sir. A. You told me there had not been an event. You

9 told me that the charity was a fake and that she had 10 used the money as her own piggybank, so I was distraught 11 when I was here. 12 I was convinced that the flier had been a fake,

13 that no event had taken place and that she had pocketed 14 the money. 15 Since that time, I know that there was an event.

16 There was an event that was well attended. 17 18 19 20 Q. Uh-huh. A. It was an event where we were recognized. Q. Uh-huh. A. Since I was here, I found out that my check was

21 deposited at the Dade Community Foundation, so if I had 22 known those facts when I was here, I wouldn't have 23 expressed some of the emotions that I expressed at the 24 time. 25 I think, worst of all, Mr. Scruggs, I felt that

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1 you -- I don't know what you knew at the time, so I'm 2 not accusing you of anything. I don't know what you 3 knew at the time, but you were under the impression 4 that, knowing that there was no event, that the flier 5 was fake, that I would have given the money, so I was 6 kind of distraught. 7 So I'm not angry, but I am disappointed at the

8 process and how it was portrayed and what was said to 9 the press. 10 Q. Well, and I'll accept that, and like I said, I

11 certainly won't argue with you. 12 I will tell you, first of all, I apologize for

13 any misunderstanding, but I will tell you, for whatever 14 it's worth, there was an event, obviously. 15 I knew that at the time, so that if I said

16 anything that made you believe there was not an event 17 and that I thought there was not an event or was 18 misleading you about that, I apologize. I did not mean 19 to do so, but I will tell you, I did know there was an 20 event. 21 I did know that your money was not spent for that

22 event, so, obviously, we had a misunderstanding there. 23 I apologize. 24 Secondly, in terms of the Dade Community

25 Foundation, I knew the check was deposited there, so

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1 just so you know, and I believe what I told you, but, 2 again, I take responsibility for the misunderstanding, 3 is it wasn't deposited there for about three or four 4 months and, at least according to the State, and Mr. 5 Raben, obviously, will question you and he'll dispute 6 that and he'll have that opportunity, but, at least 7 according to the State, that money was under her control 8 even at the Dade Community Foundation, and the only 9 person that directed the expenditures of that money was 10 herself. 11 Okay, having said all that, I take responsibility

12 for the misunderstanding and I apologize to you. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RABEN: Well, I want to object to your statement. I believe it's untrue. I believe there is no evidence in support of that. MR. SCRUGGS: Well, what I said is you'll get that opportunity. MR. RABEN: No, I understand, but I want to remind everyone here that the purpose of this deposition is to acquire relevant information of material fact. This is not a summit meeting where there is some sort of detente going on, and I would like to know if we can proceed to the questioning and answers, rather than the mia culpas for what the State perceives to be

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inappropriate dissemination of information. MR. SCRUGGS: Well, that's fine, Mr. Raben, but I'll conduct the deposition in the way that I deem appropriate, and I think in order to deal with any idea of bias, I think that's appropriate, but, actually, I'm finished. I've already said what I have to say. THE WITNESS: I'd like to say one other thing. I accept what you said, but, Mr. Scruggs, you unequivocally told me there had not been an event and that she had used the money as a piggybank. I was hoping -- I really had hope that you would not have known at the time that that was the case and maybe you found out later, because I really, the whole time between the time that I was here until the time you got me on the phone, I have been distraught over you thinking that, knowing all of that, that I done this thing, so I accept what you said. I'm not here to argue with you, so I'll answer any questions that you would like to ask.

21 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 22 Q. Okay, and like I said, that's -- again, I

23 apologize for the misunderstanding, and let's move on, 24 okay? 25 A. Okay.

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Q. We're both grown-ups and we'll move on from here,

2 and like I said, I accept what you said, okay? 3 4 A. Okay. Q. In this particular case, again, a little bit

5 different from this, but at least in terms of, kind of, 6 your state of mind and potential bias one way or the 7 other, the criminal charges that were brought, 8 obviously, now have been both bribery and grand theft. 9 10 11 A. Uh-huh. Q. Let's take them one at a time. As to the bribery count, does that count of

12 bribery cause you any direct harm or immediate or direct 13 financial harm or financial risk? 14 15 16 A. It hasn't. Q. Could you explain that, please, sir? A. It hasn't because people that have dealt with me,

17 partners and people that have dealt with me for 18 thirty years have so much confidence in me that, you 19 know, I was distraught, but I reacted -- like, I thought 20 the article in the Herald was very unfairly portrayed, 21 so right after it happened, I was very -- I have a very 22 strong family, Mr. Scruggs. I've got very strong kids. 23 We're all very close, and my partners, who are

24 named corporations, have said, you know, "We have 25 complete confidence in you." They didn't want to hear

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1 any of the particulars, although I went to them and told 2 them exactly what I had said to you about I was under 3 the impression that -- so my statements, the way that I 4 expressed them, were a byproduct of the fact that I had 5 thought I had been duped, one; and, two, that the State 6 Attorney's Office thought that I had been a willing 7 participant, so I haven't had any repercussions. 8 Q. Okay, now, you're talking about partners in terms

9 of with, I guess, Flagler or with you personally in 10 terms of board of directors and things like that? 11 12 A. All of it, all of the above. Q. So would it be fair to say that, at the time this

13 happened, there was a real concern that it may have that 14 effect; fair statement? 15 16 A. No. Q. I'm talking about at the time of the charges, I'm

17 sorry. 18 A. No, at the time of the charges, there was a

19 concern in my mind that turned out to be not real, so I 20 overreacted to the article. It really hasn't had any -21 22 Q. Okay, no, that's good. I'm glad to hear that. So at this point, now, I guess a year down the

23 road, or whatever, at least financially it hasn't caused 24 any harm; is that correct? 25 A. No, and I never worried financially.

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Q. Okay. A. I don't have a problem financially. Q. Okay. A. My problem was reputation. I do care a lot about

5 my reputation. 6 Q. Okay, and that also -- actually, that was going

7 to be my next question. 8 Well, let's take it up now, because things have

9 quieted down. Nothing's gone on for a year, and now we 10 have a trial coming up. 11 12 A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you concerned about testifying at trial

13 because of reputation or anything else? 14 A. No. I don't like it, but I know I've got to do

15 it and I'll be there. No. 16 Q. Okay, so as far as that's concerned, you're all

17 right, right? 18 19 A. I'm -Q. I mean, you may not be happy, I understand that,

20 but -21 A. I'm not happy. You know, time has passed by.

22 I'll be there to answer questions, not a problem. 23 Q. Okay. Now, we're going to come back again to the

24 specific charges, but on the grand theft charge, that 25 was added to the -- actually, it was added by

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1 Information, which that's for the lawyers. It doesn't 2 really matter to you, but it was added to the charges 3 maybe three or four months ago. I don't remember the 4 exact date. 5 Were you aware that your attorneys, Mr. Srebnick

6 in particular, had recommended that we bring that charge 7 that you would feel more comfortable with? 8 9 10 A. My -- it's not what I felt more comfortable with. Q. Okay, well -A. It's we were under the impression, Mr. Josefsberg

11 particularly and I, you know, were under the impression 12 after we left you that she had stolen the money. 13 You had told us in no uncertain terms that she

14 had used the money as her own piggybank. 15 Q. And, by the way, I stand by that. I don't change

16 that. 17 A. So, of course, we thought it was theft, so at the

18 time, I'm not surprised that they would come to you and 19 say why it can't be both, or if it is a theft, why are 20 you beating up on me? So that's -21 Q. Well, just so you know, I mean, I wanted to see

22 if you were aware of that, because we did do that. 23 As a matter of fact, we didn't do it right at the

24 moment. We didn't dismiss the bribery charges, but we 25 did add that because, upon reflection, we saw the point

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1 that your attorneys were making, so -2 A. I would have thought you would have come up to

3 that on your own, on your very own, but I'm glad that 4 they -5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SREBNICK: I think I need to interject here, because -MR. SCRUGGS: Sure. MR. SREBNICK: Certainly, when we made that -when Mr. Josefsberg and I came to see you, Mr. Scruggs, it was probably a week after the indictment was returned. MR. SCRUGGS: Correct. MR. SREBNICK: And it was based on the understanding, as you had communicated to Mr. Codina previously, that Ms. Spence-Jones had stolen the money. It was not based on any independent investigation that either myself or Mr. Josefsberg had done, so when you suggest -MR. RABEN: Excuse me one second. (Whereupon, a brief interruption was had.) MR. SREBNICK: So to the extent that you are suggesting, Mr. Scruggs, that you brought the grand theft charge because of any recommendation that either I made or Mr. Josefsberg made I don't think is fair.

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We were relying on what you had told Mr. Codina and Mr. Josefsberg in a prior meeting, that Ms. Spence-Jones had used the money as her own piggybank, and I recall telling you, I believe it was around March 11th, that if, in fact, that's the case, it seems more appropriate to charge this case as grand theft, not as bribery. I didn't know for a fact that that was the case. I was simply relying on what the State had previously represented. Had I known then what I know now, I certainly would not have made that recommendation to the State, and so I just wanted that to be clear for the record, because you have suggested that it was my recommendation to you and that you followed up on my recommendation months later, and I don't think that's accurate or fair. MR. SCRUGGS: Well, we can disagree also. It was your idea, I accepted your idea based upon my facts, no independent recollection -- or no independent investigation of yours of the case, but, nevertheless, that's fine. Thank you, Mr. Srebnick.

23 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 24 25 Q. So back to kind of where we are now. When you have said, at least as I understand, you

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1 have said that there was no quid pro quo in this case, 2 is that fair? 3 Because, you know, we haven't spoken in a long

4 time, and, you know, obviously, I've learned a lot since 5 and refined, kind of, what we're doing since the time 6 we've talked, and as I understand it, your testimony is 7 going to be, pretty much, what you said in the sworn 8 statement, but you don't believe that you paid a quid 9 pro quo. That is what I was told; is that correct? 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 MR. RABEN: Wait, I'm going to object. There was a lot of phrases in there that, you know, encompass a lot of different subject matter, so for clarification of the record, could you please break that question down? MR. SCRUGGS: I'll break it down very simply. MR. RABEN: Thank you.

17 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 18 Q. Is it correct that your testimony is going to be

19 that you did not pay a quid pro quo? 20 A. Even during our visit here, where I was really

21 shocked by the fact that the flier could have been a 22 fake and no event, I said to you then and on the phone 23 that there was never a tit for tat. 24 Even when you asked me if I had been part of

25 something, I've always said there was no tit for tat.

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1 There was never any such thing in this case. 2 3 4 Q. Well, can I ask you, though -A. Yes. Q. -- because, just simply, what does that mean to

5 you, there is no quid pro quo and no tit for tat? I'm 6 not sure exactly what that means as it relates to the 7 particular facts of this case. 8 A. I can only tell you that I was not getting her

9 vote. There was no mention of Brickell at all, even, 10 and that I was not getting anything in exchange for a 11 contribution that I would make separately, I thought for 12 good reason. 13 Q. Okay, again, I'm not trying to put words in your

14 mouth. 15 16 A. Okay. Q. Please disagree with me if you disagree with me.

17 What I assume from that, what I assume, at least from 18 you saying that, is, in order to get her vote, which I 19 guess means for her to vote for you and Mr. Glas and the 20 others, in order to get her vote, you in no way paid 21 this money to get her vote? 22 A. Absolutely did not make the contribution to get

23 her vote. 24 Q. Okay, and I accept that, no question about that,

25 okay, but the statute says influence, okay, to

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1 influence, okay? 2 Now, I think, and tell me, again, if you disagree

3 with me, would you agree that influence could include 4 voting for you, what you've just said, that if you try 5 to influence somebody, it would be influence you to vote 6 for me, right? 7 A. My contribution, I did not feel it was

8 influencing, nor would I influence a vote. 9 Q. Well, let's go back for a second. We're just

10 talking about language right now. 11 12 A. Okay. Q. Then we'll tie it back to the facts, okay, but

13 would you agree that influence means to get somebody to 14 vote for you? 15 16 17 18 19 A. I guess it could mean that, yes. Q. Well, I mean, you know -A. Yes, it could mean that. Q. Influence could also mean to -A. I learned to pay a lot of attention to what you

20 ask -21 22 23 24 25 Q. Please do. A. -- so I'm trying to be very -Q. Okay, and, listen, I want you to -A. Okay. Q. I want you to listen to me very carefully, and if

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1 you have any questions or your lawyers have any 2 questions, I want you to ask it, okay? 3 4 A. Okay. Q. So, again, influence could be, then, to vote for

5 you, just -6 7 8 9 A. Yes. Q. -- kind of what you just said? A. Yes. Q. Influence could also be to vote against

10 something? You may be against it. 11 12 A. Yes. Q. Okay. Influence could also be to obtain one's

13 goodwill? 14 15 A. Yes. Q. And influence could also be to avoid obtaining

16 ill will or bad will from a person, right? 17 A. You're getting very broad, but I guess, yes,

18 okay. 19 20 Q. Well, influence -A. I'm going to accept your -- I'll accept all of

21 what you've said. 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. You don't have to. A. No, no, I'm going to accept it. Q. Okay. A. I'm going to accept it. Take it.

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Q. Okay, well, so in this particular case, and this

2 is what I'm kind of focusing on -3 4 A. Right. Q. -- what I focused on at the time is -- and I'm

5 doing it off the top of my head, and I'll get the 6 transcript if you'd like to see it. 7 8 A. Okay. Q. In fact, I'll provide you with the transcript, if

9 you like, before you leave here today. 10 11 12 13 A. If we need it, I'll ask you. MR. SCRUGGS: And, Bob, like I said, and, Mr. Srebnick, I'll be happy to give you a copy of the transcript today before you leave if you want it.

14 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 15 Q. Anyway, you said that you did not want to poke

16 her in the eye, I think that was it, with a matter 17 pending before the commission. 18 Does that sounds about right? I may be

19 paraphrasing slightly. 20 A. Let me tell you what I said, and I'll paraphrase,

21 but I'll tell you how I feel and I'll include the part 22 that -23 Q. Well, can you tell me if that's what you said?

24 We'll get to that part in just a second. 25 MR. RABEN: Wait. I'm going to object to that.

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He said what's in the transcript. If you want to refer to the transcript, we have the transcript, but it shouldn't be a memory test as to what he remembers saying if we know what he said.

5 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Mr. Codina, do you remember what you said? MR. SCRUGGS: I asked him did he want to see the transcript, Mr. Raben. THE WITNESS: Let me give you my thoughts, and then you can take me back and forth and take me to the statement, if you want. MR. SCRUGGS: Yes, sir. THE WITNESS: I gave the gift because, when I got the e-mail, if you read what is in that e-mail as a cause, it sounded to me to be very worthwhile. More important, the money was going to be deposited at the Dade Community Foundation. Burger King was a sponsor, and they were honoring Barbara Carey-Shuler. Having looked at all of that, that would have been an event that I would have given in any case, I think that's what I said, so I saw no reason to poke her in the eye. I felt that way then, I feel that way today.

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1 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 2 Q. Right. Now, let me take that for a second,

3 though, and let's just kind of parse that out, if you 4 would. 5 6 A. Yes, sir. Q. Poke her in the eye, I assume, at least to my

7 limited knowledge of things, basically means you don't 8 want to make her angry, right, or irritate her? 9 A. First of all, I don't ever poke anybody in the

10 eye, it is not my nature, but what I was saying, what I 11 was trying to say, and I'm sorry I used the term, but 12 what I was trying to say was if this is something that I 13 had come to the conclusion that it was legitimate, that 14 I would have done it anyway, why imply that she was 15 doing something? 16 Poking in the eye is an unprovoked -- I would

17 have felt that that was unprovoked. 18 19 Q. Was what? I'm sorry. A. Unprovoked. She didn't provoke -- I thought it

20 was -- when you read through all of that, I was okay 21 making a contribution. 22 If I had felt for a moment that it was going to

23 go into her pocket or that it wasn't appropriate, I 24 wouldn't have done it. 25 There was an event scheduled long before that

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1 coincided with this thing, so you can take -- you know, 2 you can take it -- you can disagree with my conclusion 3 or timing, but that's how I looked at it, Mr. Scruggs. 4 Q. Now, again, let's kind of take that piece by

5 piece. 6 7 A. Okay. Q. Because, I mean, first of all, do we agree -- and

8 you can look at the transcript if you want, but do you 9 agree you said something like, I don't want to poke her 10 in the eye? Is that a starting point we can talk about? 11 A. Yes, I used that term, but I think I'd like to

12 use it in the context of exactly what I said and not 13 just independently, because I think I said it in the 14 context of having arrived at the fact that I thought all 15 of this was fair. 16 I gave her the benefit of saying, okay, that

17 ought to be given. 18 19 20 21 22 Q. Okay, so, and, again, I'm not arguing with you -A. Okay. Q. -- so please don't get me wrong. A. Me neither, me neither. Q. But I understand, and I think probably everyone

23 understands, that, you know, given your nature, your 24 reputation, you know, your charitable works in the 25 community, that had this been to the side and you hadnt

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1 had a matter in front of the commission and had it just 2 been normal times, had that call been made, you'd -- and 3 given the fact it was Carey-Shuler, given the fact you 4 believed it was the Dade Community Foundation, you would 5 have made the contribution; fair statement? Is that 6 what you're saying? 7 A. I hope you believe that, because that's the case,

8 yes. 9 Q. It really doesn't matter what I believe, but I

10 will tell you, I do believe that -11 12 A. Okay. Q. -- even though it doesn't matter, but that wasn't

13 the case, you agree? 14 15 A. Yes. Q. I mean, there was a different set of

16 circumstances. 17 A. That's it. Yes, it was unfortunate that the

18 event took place -- an event that had been previously 19 scheduled took place around the same time. That was 20 unfortunate, but -21 22 23 Q. Okay. A. -- you know, that's the way it was. Q. Okay. Now, the event took place, okay, I'll

24 agree with that, but you have said -- you testified and, 25 actually, in a sworn statement to dismiss, Ms.

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1 Spence-Jones actually stated that you were told or at 2 least you understood that the money that you had 3 solicited was at least, in part, going to be used to pay 4 for that event; is that correct? 5 A. My interpretation, remember, I had a brief

6 conversation with someone in her office. I asked for 7 the back-up. They sent me the e-mail. I read it. 8 In my mind, I was giving to what was in that

9 e-mail, so what was in that e-mail is what I was giving 10 to, and the funds were going to be administered by the 11 Dade Community Foundation. 12 13 I didn't get into any more detail than that. Q. But I think you said -- and, again, correct me if

14 I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but you said you 15 thought it was going to, at least partially, if not all, 16 defray the cost of that event, that you were going to 17 sponsor that event -18 19 20 MR. RABEN: Objection. I believe he already answered that question. MR. SCRUGGS: Thank you, Mr. Raben.

21 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 22 Q. Okay, that you were going to sponsor that event

23 somehow. 24 A. I thought I was providing funds for an event that

25 was -- that they were hosting honoring Barbara

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1 Carey-Shuler that was raising money for that charity 2 that was on the flier, and I believe that's what I said 3 in my statement. 4 Q. Okay. Now, what if I suggested to you -- you

5 don't have to believe this, but what if I suggested to 6 you, though, the money did not go to that event, that it 7 was -- the check was held for several months and it 8 didn't in no way go to pay for that event? 9 10 11 12 13 MR. RABEN: Objection. He didn't say he gave the money to the event. He said he gave the money to a charity to be administered by the Dade Community Foundation. MR. SCRUGGS: Thank you.

14 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 15 Q. Now, what if you understood, though, at least

16 partially, as I understood it, that it was going to 17 sponsor that event? 18 Are you aware that the check was not deposited

19 for, well, let's see, April, May -20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RABEN: I'm going to have to object. Again, your preliminary statement was not a question. It was a statement. You began this question with a statement which I believe is incorrect, and I'm objecting to a question that begins with a statement that is incorrect.

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MR. SCRUGGS: Thank you, Mr. Raben.

2 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 3 Q. Mr. Codina, the check was not deposited until

4 August of that year and the check was written on 5 March 31st of that year, 2006. 6 Were you aware that the check was not deposited

7 for whatever time period, that is, between March 31st 8 and August 15th? 9 A. I was not aware until this matter happened and I

10 was told the check was not deposited. I did not know at 11 the time, no. 12 Q. Okay. Now, have you considered the fact, because

13 you had a event, at least you believed at that time that 14 you were going to have a vote in front of the commission 15 a week from the time you got the phone call, right? 16 17 A. Right. Q. Have you ever considered the fact that, if the

18 check wasn't going to be deposited for four or five 19 months, why wasn't the call made after the vote? 20 Have you ever considered that, since, of course,

21 according to you, sir, you made the contribution anyway? 22 A. I had never considered that because I assumed the

23 check would have been deposited right away. I had no 24 problem with that. 25 It's evident now that we were recognized. I

29

1 don't know how to play what if. You know, I don't think 2 much of the Miami Herald. They were writing a story 3 about me giving the money later in exchange for a 4 previous vote, so there is no win, no win on this. 5 Q. Mr. Codina, I can't answer for the Miami Herald.

6 I don't know why they do whatever it is they do -7 8 A. Okay. Q. -- but let's get back to the facts that we have

9 here. 10 11 A. Okay. Q. Is that, at the very least, wouldn't it have

12 caused you a concern if you knew that the check was not 13 going to be deposited for four or five months? 14 I mean, wouldn't that have put some question in

15 your mind? 16 17 18 A. Look, you're asking me a hypothetical. Q. Yes, I am. A. If I knew it, I may have said I'd rather give you

19 the check when the thing is formed. However -20 Q. You mean after the vote is what you're saying,

21 right? 22 A. No, sir, not after the vote. After the charity

23 gets formed, I said. 24 25 Q. Okay, that's fair, okay. A. But, in all frankness, giving the money -- the

30

1 fact that the money was going to be deposited at the 2 Dade Community Foundation, I wouldn't have a problem 3 writing the check if the Dade Community Foundation was 4 going to disburse all the funds. 5 I have a very high regard for the process that

6 they go through in disbursing money. That's what they 7 do and they do it well, so -8 Q. Well, let's go back, then, and I'll come back to

9 that in just a second. 10 11 A. Okay. Q. And, listen, I don't want to argue with that. I

12 wont argue with that. Dade Community Foundation is a 13 reputable outfit. 14 15 A. Okay. Q. No means to discredit them at all, but at the

16 time, if you can just assume for me the fact that the 17 State believes it will prove at trial -18 19 A. Okay. Q. -- that, at the time the phone call was made,

20 number one, you had a matter in front of the commission, 21 right? 22 23 A. Yes, sir. Q. And when the phone call was made, you realized

24 the phone call was related to that matter, at least in 25 some fashion, because you turned around and called Mr.

31

1 Glas, your, I wouldn't say partner, but your friend, 2 business associate on this particular vote. 3 4 You called him to pay half the money, right? A. Can I answer -- can I go back to the first part

5 of your question? 6 7 8 9 10 Q. Well, you can answer, did you, in fact -MR. SREBNICK: There are two questions there, so -MR. SCRUGGS: You know something? I agree with you, Mr. Srebnick.

11 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 12 Q. Yes, you can go ahead and answer whatever you

13 want. 14 A. I was going to ask you, which do you want me to

15 answer, the phone call or -16 17 18 19 Q. Okay, I'll let you answer one at a time. MR. SCRUGGS: Fair break-up there, Mr. Srebnick? MR. SREBNICK: (No response.) THE WITNESS: Okay.

20 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 21 Q. First of all, when the phone call was made,

22 certainly you knew you had a matter in front of the 23 commission? 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Second question is, did you relate that phone

32

1 call, then, to the matter in front of the commission? 2 Because you, in fact, called Mr. Glas and asked him to 3 pay the other half. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. Can I answer the first one first? MR. RABEN: Wait a second. That question, again, it contains a statement wherein you said, "You asked Mr. Glas to pay the other half." I don't believe that that has been established, and that's a statement, not a question.

10 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 11 12 13 14 Q. Did you ask Mr. Glas to pay? A. Can I answer your question one at a time? Q. Please do. Answer what half you want. A. I'm going to only answer them the way you gave

15 them to me. I'm not picking or choosing. 16 17 18 19 20 Q. Sure. A. The phone call first. Q. I'll let you answer however you want. A. The phone call first. I got a phone call. I'm told it's her office

21 calling. My antennas went up immediately. I've got a 22 matter pending, and what was on my mind, Mr. Scruggs, 23 was, is she going to talk to me about the Brickell 24 matter? Which I don't -- I don't even think I'm allowed 25 to chat with her while this matter is pending about the

33

1 Brickell matter, so my antennas went up because I 2 thought she was going to have a discussion with me about 3 the Brickell matter or the Brickell vote. I don't know 4 if I can do that. 5 I get on the phone. I chatted with someone from

6 her staff. They talked about an event coming up for 7 Barbara Carey-Shuler, all of these things. 8 I asked a couple of questions. I asked if they

9 have a 501(c)3. They tell me -- I said, "Send me the 10 certificate." 11 They say, "We don't have the certificate yet, but

12 all the money is going to be deposited at the Dade 13 Community Foundation," so I'm partly relieved that the 14 conversation is about this. I finish the conversation 15 and that's the end of the conversation. 16 I was somewhat relieved and my antennas were more

17 relaxed, so that was the telephone conversation. Now 18 you want to know about Mr. Glas? 19 20 Q. (Nodding head.) A. So I did call Mr. Glas, and I told you before

21 that Ricardo Glas is a very good friend. We were 22 representing him on the leasing of his project, as you 23 know, and Ricardo Glas and I spoke frequently, and I 24 told Ricardo Glas, "I got a call from Commissioner 25 Spence-Jones's office. I was worried. I received all

34

1 of this material, went through it. Ricardo, this is an 2 event that I would normally have to give to anyway, so I 3 am going to write a check." 4 I don't recall exactly or I would tell you, but I

5 think I told him, "I'm not going to do a full 6 sponsorship, like Burger King. I'm going to do half," 7 and Ricardo offered to do the other half. That was the 8 Ricardo Glas phone call. 9 Q. Okay, but my question, though, perhaps a little

10 more refined, though -11 12 A. Yes. Q. -- is the fact that you subsequently, if not

13 immediately, called Mr. Glas and asked him or at least 14 suggested, perhaps, that you -- since you weren't going 15 to pay the full sponsorship of $25,000, that he pay a 16 portion of it, doesn't that, in fact, in and of itself 17 tie your thoughts to the matter pending in front of the 18 commission? 19 A. No. I didn't ask, nor request, by the way. I

20 told him the facts. I told him what I had gone through. 21 I told him what I was doing, no. 22 But the matter, when I called Ricardo, the matter

23 was in my mind because I had arrived -- I had made a 24 decision about what I was going to do, so I was okay 25 with that.

35

1

Q. Okay, but I'm still -- you know, I think I

2 understand what you're saying, but the fact that you 3 called Mr. Glas as opposed to Mr. Anybody Else or Ms. 4 Anybody Else, that means, does it not, sir, that, at 5 least the matter was pending, in your mind, when you 6 called Mr. Glas? 7 A. When you say call somebody else, who am I going

8 to call? The matter -- I wasn't asked to fundraise. I 9 wasn't asked to do any fundraising. 10 I didn't call Ricardo to fundraise. I called

11 Ricardo because my antennas went up because we had a 12 matter pending, and I went through the process that I 13 went through. 14 You may think I arrived at the wrong conclusion,

15 I accept that, but I thought, with the information that 16 I had at the time, and given the fact that this is 17 something I would have given to anyway, I was perfectly 18 okay with it then and I'm perfectly okay with it now. 19 Q. And, again, don't get me wrong, because whatever

20 I think in terms of what you did doesn't mean a thing, 21 okay, so -22 A. It did mean a lot to me after the last time we

23 met and I thought you thought I had willingly done this 24 with a fake charity and no event, so -25 Q. Well, I didn't, sir, but, again, that's, you

36

1 know -2 3 A. Okay. Q. -- neither here nor there, I suppose, but why

4 didn't you pay the entire -- it was twenty-five that was 5 asked for, right? 6 A. Yes. I could easily have done that instead, but

7 I -8 9 10 MR. SREBNICK: Excuse me. Listen to the question. THE WITNESS: Okay.

11 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 12 13 14 Q. Why didn't you pay the full twenty-five? MR. SREBNICK: And your question was, twenty-five was asked for?

15 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 16 Q. Let's take them one at a time. Twenty-five was

17 asked for, right? 18 A. They didn't tell me to write a check for

19 twenty-five. 20 I believe what they said to me, from my

21 recollection, is Burger King is a sponsor, you know, and 22 Burger King is paying 25,000. 23 Q. Okay, and so did you take that to mean that was

24 the amount being suggested to you? 25 A. Yes.

37

1 2

Q. Okay, so why didn't you pay the twenty-five? A. Burger King's name was already on the flier. I

3 thought I was going to do somewhat less than that. 4 My recollection is, I told Ricardo, "I'm going to

5 do a level below," and he agreed to do the same. 6 7 8 9 10 Q. Okay. A. He wanted to do the same. Q. Let's go back, take that step by step. A. Okay. Q. You could have easily paid twenty-five if you

11 wanted to? Again, your finances are none of my 12 business, but I think that's what you just said, right, 13 had you chosen to do so? 14 15 A. Yes. Q. Okay, and you could have easily just paid twelve

16 five, if you wanted to, right -17 18 A. Yes. Q. -- since that was going to be the amount that you

19 did? 20 21 A. Yes. Q. So why didn't you just pay twelve five and let it

22 go? 23 24 A. That's what I did. I paid twelve five. Q. Why did you call Ricardo Glas, unless it was

25 related to the matter pending before the commission?

38

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

MR. RABEN: Objection, asked and answered. THE WITNESS: I called Ricardo because Ricardo had the matter pending, and I told you that I called him because the matter was pending. MR. SCRUGGS: Okay. THE WITNESS: And I told you, Ricardo is my close friend. We were handling the matter for him. Of course I'm going to call him, and we spoke often, so I don't recall if I called him or he called me. I think I called him and I told him, "Ricardo, I got a call from Michelle Spence-Jones's office. We do have this matter pending. "Here is what they asked. Here is what they sent me. I went through all of this, and I think this is a legitimate charitable contribution. "The event must have been set long before this hearing. I would have given to this anyway, so I'm going to make a contribution," and that's it, Mr. Scruggs.

21 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 22 Q. Okay. Did he tell you whether or not he was

23 going to contribute also? 24 A. I believe he said, "I'll make a contribution

25 too," yes.

39

1 2

Q. Okay. A. But that's, you know, four years ago. When I

3 first came here, I did not remember that I had signed 4 the check or that there had been an event. You know, 5 you're going back four years. 6 7 8 Q. I understand. A. Okay. Q. So, again, not to belabor the point, though, but

9 given the fact that you were going to do this anyway or 10 you would have done this anyway had you not had a matter 11 pending, you decided in your own mind that, again, why 12 poke her in the eye? Why, since she hadn't provoked 13 you, why provoke her? Why do anything that would cause 14 ill will; fair statement or is that incorrect? 15 A. I wouldn't describe it the way you're describing

16 it. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Then, sir, how would you describe it? MR. RABEN: I'm going to object. What we're doing is we're wrestling with the witness over the same subject matter. These questions have been asked. Mr. Codina has admirably explained to the best of his ability. If you're dissatisfied or unhappy with his answer, it doesn't mean you have to keep asking the same questions, so I'm going to object to this as

40

1

repetitious, burdensome and argumentative.

2 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 3 4 Q. Okay, now you can answer the question, sir. A. I don't mind answering your question, but tell me

5 again, because -6 Q. Okay, I'm trying to take what you've said, not

7 anything that I've said. 8 9 A. Okay, go ahead. Q. What you've said is you would have made the

10 contribution anyway, had you not had a matter pending, 11 right? 12 13 A. Yes. Q. Okay, but since you did have a matter pending and

14 since, in a sense, this wasn't any kind of big deal to 15 you, I suppose, right? 16 17 A. Uh-huh. Q. That you decided, why provoke her? Why create

18 ill will with a matter pending in front of the 19 commission; fair statement or incorrect? 20 21 22 A. So let me say it my way. Q. Uh-huh. A. I said my antennas were raised from the call. I

23 have the conversation. My antennas are somewhat -- I'm 24 somewhat relieved that it becomes about a charitable 25 contribution.

41

1

I ask a couple of questions. I get the material.

2 The flier looked very legitimate, looked like something 3 that had been well done, the art and so forth. I read 4 the e-mail. It's a good cause, funds going to the Dade 5 Community Foundation, Burger King is a sponsor; not only 6 Burger King, but if you look at the flier, a number of 7 others. 8 Burger King is what I zeroed in on, and an event

9 hosted to honor Barbara Carey-Shuler. I would have 10 certainly given to that under normal circumstances. 11 The event was set long before we were going to be

12 before the commission, so why would I say to her, you 13 are doing something wrong and poke her in the eye? I 14 did not see a reason to poke her in the eye. 15 If I had gotten a sniff that they were trying to

16 put the arm on me, I would have not done it, and if it 17 was overt, I would have gone to my attorney. 18 Q. Okay, let's -- now, let's take it, again, step by

19 step, if you don't mind, sir. 20 21 A. Okay. Q. First of all, then, and perhaps we can correct

22 some of the misperceptions in the past that I would 23 admit that, I guess, I created, first of all, let's 24 assume that the State's facts would show that your 25 check, as I just mentioned, did not go to further or

42

1 sponsor the event, that it was held for four or five 2 months, and, further, it was deposited by -- on behalf 3 of the Friends of MLK Trust at the Dade Community 4 Foundation, that, at that time, although I admit later 5 on it did, at that time, it did not exist and that it 6 went into an account that -- again, you don't have to 7 believe me, and Mr. Raben, I'll tell you right up front, 8 will dispute this and will try to disprove it otherwise, 9 but the State will attempt to prove that that account 10 was under the control of Michelle Spence-Jones. 11 With those three particular things I just said,

12 would you have made that payment? Would you have 13 written that check? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 MR. RABEN: I'm going to object to a hypothetical question. I don't believe the Court would allow such a question, and to ask that question now doesn't mean that it's going to be an answer that's going to lead to relevant, admissible evidence. This answer will not lead to relevant, admissible evidence, and I'm going to object to it.

21 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay, anyway, you heard the question. THE WITNESS: What do I do? MR. SCRUGGS: You have to answer the question. MR. SREBNICK: Do you understand the question?

43

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

Do you want it repeated? THE WITNESS: Yes, say it again. MR. SCRUGGS: Okay. MR. SREBNICK: And, Mr. Scruggs, when you say "sponsored", do you mean pay for the event or do you mean sponsored like listed as a sponsor? MR. SCRUGGS: No, I'm talking about paying for the event. MR. SREBNICK: Because I think that needs to be clarified because he may not understand, when you say "sponsored", whether it's paying for the event or -MR. SCRUGGS: Let's take it one at a time. THE WITNESS: Okay.

14 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 15 Q. Number one is that your payment was going to be

16 to sponsor the event, which means to, at least in terms 17 of what I'm saying here, that either to pay for or to 18 partially pay for or to defray the expenses of the 19 event, okay? 20 MR. SCRUGGS: Does that take care of your

21 question? 22 MR. SREBNICK: I'm sorry, is that a question or

23 is it part of the hypothetical now? I'm sorry. 24 25 MR. SCRUGGS: It's going to be, but I want to make sure that I define it better to satisfy you.

44

1 2 3 4 5

MR. SREBNICK: That's fine. Do you understand what he's saying? THE WITNESS: Yes, yes. MR. SREBNICK: His definition of "sponsor" is to pay for the event.

6 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 7 Q. Or to defray the cost and partially pay for the

8 event. 9 Number two, that at the time the solicitation was

10 made, that the Friends of MLK Trust, located under the 11 auspices of the Dade Community Foundation, did not 12 exist, and, number three, as the State will try to prove 13 at trial, that the account that was opened there at the 14 Dade Community Foundation was under the control of Ms. 15 Spence-Jones, those three things. 16 Had you known those three things, despite Mr.

17 Raben's objection, would you have written that check? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RABEN: Well, when you say Mr. Raben's objection, Mr. Raben's objection is you're asking him to assume three premises. You're asking him to assume three premises which are false. It's like asking him, if the sun doesn't come up tomorrow, what would you do? MR. SCRUGGS: Well, you can say that, Mr. Raben.

45

1 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 2 Q. Mr. Raben would assert -- let's be fair. Mr.

3 Raben would assert those three premises are false. 4 5 6 7 8 MR. RABEN: But I think it would be appropriate if you ask Mr. Codina if he accepts those three premises before you ask him to give a hypothetical. MR. SCRUGGS: No, I don't, Mr. Raben, thank you very much.

9 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 10 Q. Mr. Raben, in all fairness, believes those three

11 premises are incorrect, but, nevertheless, I would ask 12 you to accept them for the sake of simply my question, 13 okay? You don't have to believe them. 14 A. Okay. I wrote -- I gave my contribution for the

15 purposes of what was in that e-mail and for the funds to 16 be administered by the Dade Community Foundation. 17 So to be responsive to your question, if the Dade

18 Community Foundation thought it was okay to pay for 19 that, that would be up to them. 20 In my mind, I'm giving you how I viewed it, and I

21 have given money before that way, so I was writing a 22 contribution for the purposes it stated there, to be 23 administered by the Dade Community Foundation. 24 25 Q. Okay. A. If I had been told that the money would not be --

46

1 that the account was not opened at the Dade Community 2 Foundation -3 4 Q. At that time. A. -- I would not have been ready to give the check

5 until -- I would have said, "Wait until you have it." 6 If I was told, however, the money is going to be

7 deposited in the Dade Community Foundation, and that's 8 what I was told, and it's going to take us a few months 9 to get these things set up the right way, I would have 10 been okay with that too. 11 12 Q. Had you known -A. Had I known they were going to deposit my money

13 in the Dade Community Foundation and had some paperwork 14 to be done, I would have been okay with that. 15 Control of -- I think one of the things that the

16 Dade Community Foundation does, I have been involved in 17 many things around the Dade Community Foundation, and 18 I'm not -- I haven't given money for them to administer, 19 but I do that with United Way, and when my office wants 20 a check for the United Way for a purpose, it's not just, 21 Amanda wants a check for Bob Josefsberg. 22 We ask for a check. They check and see that it

23 is a charity. They go through the whole process. So, 24 to me, if it's in the Dade Community Foundation, it's 25 harder for somebody to have control.

47

1

If it wasn't in the Dade Community Foundation and

2 she was going to spend it as her own piggybank, of 3 course I wouldn't have given that money. 4 5 6 Q. Okay. A. Okay. Q. So you drew comfort from the fact that it would

7 be in the Dade Community Foundation; fair statement? 8 9 A. A long history, know a lot about them, yes. Q. Okay, so I'm not sure, though, I quite got the

10 answer, though. Certainly, you drew comfort from the 11 fact that it would be in the Dade Community Foundation. 12 13 A. Yes. Q. But as I understand it, again, correct me if I'm

14 wrong -15 16 A. Right. Q. -- as I understand it, had you known that it

17 didn't exist at that time and the account wasn't opened, 18 that you would have simply said, Why don't you call me 19 after you do that? 20 21 22 23 24 MR. RABEN: Again, I'm going to object. The question includes the statement that, "It didn't exist at the time." It did exist at the time, so I'm going to object to that question.

25 BY MR. SCRUGGS:

48

1 2 3 4

Q. Mr. Raben has his own opinions. A. Yes. I'm going to -Q. Yes, okay. A. If I had been told that it didn't exist and my

5 money wasn't going to be deposited in the Dade Community 6 Foundation, I would have said, "Let's wait." 7 8 9 Q. Okay, fair statement, and I'll move on, okay? A. Okay. Q. Then were you aware when it got deposited, or is

10 that just something that happens in your accounting 11 department so far below you that it doesn't matter? 12 A. I don't like "so far below" because I'm kind of

13 in tune to my people, but I had no idea that it had been 14 held up. I had no idea when they deposited it. 15 Q. Did Mr. Glas tell you that his check hadn't got

16 deposited and that the money had actually -- he had 17 canceled his check? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No. MR. RABEN: Objection, that's a completely inappropriate and false statement. MR. SCRUGGS: You want to correct it? Go ahead. MR. RABEN: Did Mr. Glas tell you that, because of the delay in the deposit of the check, his bank, by policy, declined to pay on the check? MR. SCRUGGS: Well, that's -- excuse me, that's

49

1 2 3

incorrect also. THE WITNESS: No to both of you, because Ricardo Glas didn't tell me, so I have no idea, so, no.

4 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 5 Q. The answer is probably going to be no anyway,

6 right? 7 A. The answer is no, because I had no idea until we

8 got into -- until we heard much later that I found out 9 that was a fact. No, I didn't know. He didn't tell me. 10 Q. Yes, because, to be correct, though, his

11 accounting department had canceled the check because of 12 nonpayment after ninety days. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. No. Q. So the answer is no. Going back, then, to -MR. RABEN: Wait. That's -- again, I don't want to accept that as a statement that I have acquiesced to on the record. His accounting department didn't, you know, do that on the check because of nonpayment. That's not correct. That's false, but you can proceed. MR. SCRUGGS: Because of delay.

22 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 23 Q. Okay, so, anyway, believe it or not, Mr. Raben's

24 going to have his day here. He's kind of having it 25 twice right now, but anyway, so getting back to the case

50

1 here then, that when you wrote the check, I think, on 2 the 31st -3 4 A. Uh-huh. Q. -- how did you have the check delivered to the

5 event? 6 A. When you asked me that in your office, I told you

7 I didn't remember. 8 9 Q. Right, right. A. I told you, after I sign a bunch of checks, they

10 go. My recollection has been refreshed -11 12 Q. That's what I thought. A. -- by Jose Gonzalez, who came to me after the

13 article happened and said, "I went to the event and I 14 took the check. You asked me to." So I now know that 15 Jose Gonzalez went to the event and took the check. 16 Q. Okay. Did you ask him to or is that just

17 something that kind of filtered down to him? 18 A. No, I asked him, according to him, and I normally

19 would -- I normally ask someone. If we're going to send 20 a contribution, I normally send somebody. 21 I don't normally just send it. We normally send

22 somebody. 23 Q. Okay, so you asked Mr. Gonzalez to do it, and do

24 you know anything about the method of delivery? I mean, 25 was it in an envelope or anything like that, or did you

51

1 deal with that at all? 2 A. I would be speculating, but we always put it in

3 an envelope and with the name of the organization, so I 4 would imagine accounting gave it to him in an envelope 5 with the name of the organization and he took it -6 7 8 Q. Okay. A. -- but I don't know. Q. Do you know, because you didn't when I spoke to

9 you a year ago. Perhaps you do now. 10 11 12 13 Do you know how Mr. Glass's check got delivered? A. No, I don't. Q. Okay. A. Mr. Gonzalez didn't take his check, so I don't

14 know. 15 16 17 Q. Okay, so at least, as far as you know -A. Yes. Q. -- it went other than through Mr. Gonzalez; is

18 that correct? 19 20 A. Yes. Q. Did you ask Mr. Klein, Hank Klein, to go to the

21 event also? 22 A. I had forgotten about that. When I was in your

23 office, remember, you asked me if I had signed the 24 check. 25 I told you I didn't remember what happened to it.

52

1 I didn't remember I asked Hank Klein to go. I don't 2 remember, Mr. Scruggs, why I couldn't be there, because 3 I would have been there. I had a relationship with her 4 husband. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 MR. SREBNICK: Who is "her"? THE WITNESS: Barbara Carey-Shuler. I had a relationship with Barbara Carey-Shuler's husband. I would have been there. The fact that I couldn't personally be there, I asked Hank, "Go there and be sure that you pay your respects to Barbara Carey-Shuler," because Hank was very visible in the company. He was kind of our outside guy. Everybody knows Hank. And Hank's sister, I don't remember what the relationship is, but Hank's sister worked or did something with Barbara Carey-Shuler, so, yes, I asked Hank to go and pay his respects, because, to me, the contribution was for the reasons that I've told you and Barbara Carey-Shuler in particular.

20 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 21 Q. Did you tell Hank that a contribution was being

22 made? 23 A. I don't -- I think he would assume that we're

24 making a contribution if he's going to an event, but -25 Q. No, I'm asking you, not what you --

53

1 2 3 4

A. I don't recall telling him or not. Q. Okay. A. Yes. Q. So, again, if I suggested to you that Mr. Klein

5 would testify that he did not know, would you be 6 surprised? 7 8 9 A. No, I would not be surprised. Q. Okay, but let's step back for a second. Mr. Klein is the outside face, if you will, of

10 your corporation, right? 11 12 A. Right. Q. And you were going to make, at least from your

13 point of view, a $12,500 contribution, right? 14 15 A. Yes. Q. And you're going to have or at least you probably

16 didn't know it at the time, but I'm going to show you 17 what I'm going to list as Bates stamp number 50468. 18 I can show it to Mr. Raben, if he'd like to see

19 it, and, Mr. Raben, the point's going to be that that is 20 the small version of the chart that was at the event 21 that you were going to be listed as one of the founding 22 organizations of that -23 24 A. Right. Q. -- particular event, and this -- I'm sure you

25 didn't know this was going to be posted, but yet, it was

54

1 going to -- you were going to be and your company was 2 going to be prominent players in this event, but yet, 3 you didn't tell Mr. Klein that sponsorship money, 4 whatever you want to call it, donations were being made? 5 6 A. It's not surprising, Mr. Scruggs. Q. No, but I'm asking you, you didn't tell him that,

7 right? 8 A. No, I told you I don't recall telling Hank if we

9 did. I'm not surprised that I didn't tell Hank. 10 I told Hank to, "Go there and pay your respects

11 to Barbara Carey-Shuler. She's being honored, and tell 12 her that I would have been there." That was his role. 13 Q. Okay, but look at it -- step back for a second

14 and look at it kind of as objectively as you can. 15 16 A. Okay. Q. You're sending your outside face, one of your

17 main guys, if you will, to the event to pay their 18 respects and to be the face of the Codina Group, but 19 you're sending kind of a junior guy to deliver a check 20 for $12,500, and you don't even tell your main guy. 21 22 Do you see any dichotomy there, sir? A. Not at all, Mr. Scruggs. I would respectfully

23 tell you that it was not long ago you were saying, not 24 only that there had not been an event, but later you 25 said that we were never recognized.

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Now you're telling me, oh, you were recognized.

2 You sent this guy. I -3 4 Q. Well -A. That was a normal -- I sent -- I asked Hank to

5 go. Barbara Carey-Shuler wouldn't know Jose Gonzalez. 6 She would know who Hank was, and I wanted her to know 7 that I was sorry that I couldn't be there on the day 8 that she was being honored. You know, I -9 Q. Wouldn't you want her to know that you were

10 making a donation? 11 A. Well, Jose was recognized with something up there

12 from the photographs that I saw, so -13 14 15 Q. Well, he was there, sir. A. Certainly. Q. -- so she would have heard -- she would have seen

16 the name on the poster when she walked in. 17 A. I'm sorry, but I don't know -- it's a little

18 surprising that you would ask this when it wasn't long 19 ago you were saying that there was no event and that I 20 wasn't recognized. Now I'm recognized too much? 21 Q. Well, let me kind of respond to that, if I could,

22 sir. 23 24 A. Yes. Q. First of all, I apologize for the first

25 misunderstanding, okay? I didn't mean to ever do that.

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Secondly, I will tell you that I wasn't aware

2 that you were recognized. Mr. Raben pointed that out to 3 me. I appreciate that and I stand corrected. I was 4 wrong on that one, okay? 5 A. I sent both of them. I would do it the same

6 again, you know, that's it. 7 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 8 Q. What I just identified was Bates stamp

9 number 50468. Have you ever seen this before today or 10 am I showing it to you for the first time? 11 12 13 14 15 A. I saw it in an image from -Q. From the event? A. -- from the event, yes. Q. Okay. Who showed that to you? A. I was pointed to a website and I went and looked

16 at every picture on the website. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SREBNICK: I'm going to object on privilege grounds now, if you're going to get into areas of communications between him and his lawyer. MR. SCRUGGS: That's all he has to say. MR. SREBNICK: Well, I'm going to say it. MR. SCRUGGS: And that's fine. THE WITNESS: I was pointed to a website and, actually, I spent a couple hours looking at the pictures.

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1 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 2 Q. So you saw, at least, albeit probably not a clear

3 image, but -4 5 6 7 A. No, it was pretty clear. Q. You saw this (indicating)? A. It was pretty clear. Q. Okay, so do you believe that Burger King was a

8 founding member of the event? 9 10 A. It's on the poster. Q. Certainly. Did you believe -- well, did you know

11 at the time that you were to be a founding member? 12 13 14 A. No. Q. Were you surprised? A. I'm not surprised that, typically, in these

15 events, when you write a check, they acknowledge you. 16 I'm not surprised they acknowledged me. 17 What they called me, you have to ask them. I

18 have no idea. 19 20 21 Q. Okay, but let me ask you, were you surprised? A. I'm not surprised to have my name there. Q. No, but were you surprised that you were a

22 founder? 23 24 A. Yes, I guess so. I didn't look at it, but, yes. Q. Well, if I can take it one step further, were you

25 ever asked to have a representative on the board of

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1 directors or be a participant or having anything to do 2 the with the corporation or the entity? 3 A. You know, oftentimes, when you give, they have

4 different categories. 5 They call you a -- you know, they can call you

6 different things that have no relationship whatsoever to 7 any board, but, no, to answer your question directly, I 8 was not asked to serve on any board -9 10 11 12 Q. Okay. A. -- nor would I have served on any boards. Q. You said nor would you have? A. No, I don't serve on any -- I've got enough to

13 do. 14 Q. But had you been asked, though, would you have

15 sent a representative? I'm not saying, necessarily, 16 you, but -17 A. No, or probably not, probably not. They would

18 have had to do a lot of convincing, but probably not. 19 Q. Okay, but I guess the short answer to the

20 question is, no, you were not asked, correct? 21 22 A. I was not asked is the short answer. Q. So would you then also -- then let's just take

23 the next three. I won't do them step by step, but we've 24 got Carlisle Development, Florida Power & Light, Royal 25 Caribbean and Urban Development Group.

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Again, when you saw this, did you assume they

2 were in the same situation as you in terms of making 3 donations to be a founding member? 4 A. I don't know about the amount, but I would have

5 thought they made a donation. 6 Q. Okay, because, again, common sense, from your

7 perspective, when you look at it, that's what that would 8 tell you, right? 9 10 A. Why would they get credit? Yes. Q. What if I suggested to you that, of all of these

11 entities that night, only one check -- two checks, 12 actually, you and Mr. Glas -13 14 15 16 A. Bad fundraising. Q. Huh? A. Bad fundraising, if you get only two. Q. Also, again, I would suggest to you and ask you

17 if you know this: Did you know that Burger King did not 18 make their payment until months later, when the trust 19 was created, like you said? 20 21 22 MR. RABEN: Objection. That's a false statement. THE WITNESS: I didn't know that at the time, no. MR. RABEN: That's a false statement.

23 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 24 Q. Okay, Burger King made their contribution in June

25 and July. It was deposited in July in the trust as a --

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MR. RABEN: Can I get a clarification? When was

2 the trust created, Mr. Scruggs? If it was created when 3 Burger King made their donation, then it was June or 4 July, is that your position? 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 MR. SCRUGGS: No. If you want to ask me the question, I'll be happy to answer it on the record. On the record is that the trust was not created until August, but they agreed to deposit the check early as an accommodation in the belief that perhaps the trust would be created in the future. MR. RABEN: In other words, checks were accepted on behalf of the Martin Luther King Trust before the trust was formally contracted with the Dade Community Foundation, just like what happened here, with Burger King. MR. SCRUGGS: No, actually, not just like what happened here. Burger King's check was submitted and accepted, but your, Mr. Codina's, check was not submitted, nor Mr. Glas's. THE WITNESS: Okay. MR. SCRUGGS: They were very different, different situations, sir.

23 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 24 25 Q. Now, have you spoken to Mr. Raben? A. Yes.

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Q. I mean other than, hello, Mr. Raben? I mean -A. No, no, I spoke to him in the lobby, hello, Mr.

3 Raben, that's it. 4 Q. But I mean prior to today, in terms of like we're

5 talking, or in the past? 6 7 A. No, never had the pleasure. Q. I think you're going to in a few minutes, but I

8 thought I'd ask. 9 10 A. Okay. Q. Mr. Codina, when -- and this is kind of a

11 follow-up to one of my last questions. 12 After you wrote your check, as far as the Friends

13 of MLK Trust was concerned, was that the end of it? 14 I mean, you never heard of it again, never dealt

15 with it again, any other money contributed, anything 16 like that? 17 A. Never heard of it again, Mr. Scruggs, at least

18 until this whole matter took kind of an ugly turn. 19 Q. Okay. Did Ms. Spence-Jones ever or anybody on

20 her behalf or any organizations on her behalf -- I 21 realize that's a multiple question, but at the same 22 time, I'm trying to make it broad -- ever call you and 23 ask for any contributions or donations for any other 24 entity or any other event or anything like that? 25 A. At any time?

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Q. At any time, yes, anything? A. Yes, I think -- I believe Ms. Spence-Jones did,

3 long before she was a commissioner, run something. The 4 chairman actually is someone that I knew, Ron Krongold. 5 He was the volunteer and I think she was a staff. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q. I'm sorry, you lost me there. MR. SREBNICK: Of what? THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, I'm getting off there. Of something called the Miami Film -- Miami Music Festival, and I wrote a check. She was executive director, but she had nothing to do with government at that time.

13 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 14 Q. Okay. The Miami Music Festival, that was kind of

15 a Barbara Carey-Shuler sponsored event also, wasn't it, 16 or you don't know? 17 18 19 A. What I remember is that it was Ron Krongold -Q. Okay. A. -- was the -- who is a very good friend or a

20 partner of mine, so what I remember, my recollection was 21 Krongold said, "Would you talk to this lady? We're 22 doing this music to bring the community together," and I 23 wrote a check. 24 25 Q. Okay. A. And I thought she was pretty sharp, very -- so

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1 that's my only time that I had contact with her. 2 Q. Do you recall how much that check was for at this

3 time? 4 A. No. It's got to be many, many years ago. I

5 cannot recall. 6 Q. Well, I guess we should probably focus on the

7 Codina Group, since that was kind of your corporation at 8 that particular time. 9 10 A. Yes. Q. Did the Codina Group have like, for lack of a

11 better term, like an outreach person or a charity person 12 or somebody that you put in charge of kind of good 13 works, if you will? 14 15 16 A. Jose Gonzalez did most of that. Q. Okay. A. In large part, all of the events, Jose would have

17 automatically attended. 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. Well, I hope you paid him well. A. Well, I've become allergic to those things, so -Q. I can certainly -A. -- so it's his job to go. Q. I can certainly understand that. A. So he's the guy that goes to all of those things

24 and he loves it, I should tell you. 25 Q. Okay. In the broad sense --

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A. Okay. Q. -- I'm going to refer back to around 2005, if you

3 know. 4 The amount of a contribution of -- let's take,

5 first of all, $12,500. Would that be kind of high, low, 6 in the middle? How does that fit into what you would 7 normally do? 8 A. I don't like to talk about charitable

9 contributions, but -10 11 Q. I'm not going to ask you any specifics, okay? A. -- but we give significantly more to other

12 things, like the Community Partnership -- significantly 13 more to Community Partnership for the Homeless, FIU, the 14 Women's Fund, and so any table you buy today at an 15 event, Mr. Scruggs, is -- you know, they used to be $100 16 chicken dinners. Now they're $1,000 chicken dinners. 17 18 Q. Yes. As a matter of fact, I -A. So any event I attend today is $10,000, so, to

19 me, it's not low money. It's not a low amount, but we 20 give a lot more than that. 21 Q. Well, it sounds like we're, in a sense, comparing

22 apples and oranges, I think. 23 It sounds like you have a longstanding kind of

24 charitable side of your corporation or your person that 25 you do with big organizations.

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This would be something different, I suppose,

2 right? 3 A. Just like when you brought up Michelle

4 Spence-Jones before, just like I was asked for that 5 music festival, that was supposed to be African-American 6 and Cubans together. I have a soft -- if they ask me 7 for something, the Afro-American community, you know, 8 they're the least -- they get the least benefit out of a 9 lot of what goes on, so, you know, when Liberty City was 10 on fire, I was involved in that and raised money, gave 11 money for that, so I've been lucky, so if somebody 12 gives, it should be me. 13 14 Q. What was -- I guess that raises another question. Back to this particular event, this particular

15 solicitation, what did you -- what was your 16 understanding of what the money was going to be spent 17 for? 18 A. Exactly what was on that e-mail, which was pretty

19 descriptive. It tells you exactly what -- if you read 20 it, the e-mail, it tells you -- not the flier, but the 21 e-mail gave me what I had asked that they send me. 22 23 24 25 Q. Well, I have a copy. MR. SCRUGGS: Do you have a copy of the e-mail? I can show him the copy that's in the file, but if you want to --

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MR. RABEN: I have a copy of the e-mail.

3 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 4 Q. Okay, we'll just show you that. I'll show you

5 Mr. Raben's copy because my copy is actually in a 6 file -7 8 9 A. Okay. Q. -- and let you just read that for a minute, okay? A. "Trust fund designated to enhance, revitalize and

10 empower the community by addressing deserving ills. The 11 group is committed to educating, enriching and 12 economically stimulating the community at large, while 13 promoting the mission and the legacy of Dr. Martin 14 Luther King by providing grants to local organizations 15 through the Dade Community Foundation." 16 Q. So as the e-mail was sent to you from her office,

17 you took her at her word, right? 18 19 A. Motherhood and apple pie. Q. Okay. Has anybody told you or are you aware that

20 there were only two expenditures from that money, from 21 any money out of the Dade Community Foundation? 22 23 A. I did not know at the time, no. Q. Okay. One expenditure went to a cocktail party

24 for Michelle Spence-Jones. 25 MR. RABEN: Objection, that's not correct.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

That's false. MR. SCRUGGS: Say what you want to say. MR. RABEN: That's just false. MR. SCRUGGS: Say what you want to say. You're going to have a chance to correct this. MR. RABEN: It's not a matter of I have a chance to correct it. You have a chance to ask questions designed to get relevant, admissible evidence, and to make a false statement like that is inappropriate. MR. SCRUGGS: It's not a false statement.

12 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 13 Q. It went to an event that Michelle Spence-Jones

14 sponsored. The invoice itself said elegant cocktail 15 party for fifty. 16 There was $2,500 that was spent for that, and all

17 of it was -- you know, different people came, so on and 18 so forth, I don't think Mr. Raben would dispute that, 19 and the check was written at her request from the Dade 20 Community Foundation. 21 22 23 Were you aware of that? A. No. Q. Okay, and there was a second check written for

24 $5,000 at her request for the Martin Luther King, Jr., 25 Memorial that was going to be built in Washington, D.C.

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MR. RABEN: Could you specify that both checks were written by the Dade Community Foundation, disbursed and administered by the Dade Community Foundation? MR. SREBNICK: I just want to clarify, were you aware of it when? I didn't understand your first question.

8 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 9 Q. Were you aware of it at any time? Am I telling

10 you now for the first time or were you aware of it 11 before? 12 13 14 A. No, I heard there were two expenditures. Q. Okay. A. At the time I didn't know, and recently I was

15 told that there were two expenditures. 16 Q. And were you aware that there were no

17 scholarships to anybody, like to any kids or anything 18 like that? 19 A. Well, I assume from the fact that there were two

20 written that there were no scholarships. 21 Q. And that there were -- other than the local, if

22 you want to call it that, the local organizations for 23 the Martin Luther King, Jr., Memorial in Washington, 24 D.C., that there was no money spent for the community? 25 Were you aware of that?

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A. No. Q. Again, hypothetical, and Mr. Raben, I'm sure,

3 will object, so I'll object for him, but had you known 4 that the money was not going to be spent to provide 5 grants to local organizations to educate, enrich and 6 economically stimulate the community at large, would you 7 have made this contribution? 8 A. The only thing I can tell you, Mr. Scruggs, is

9 that I gave the money specifically for that -10 11 Q. Okay. A. -- and that's what was in my mind, and that's why

12 I gave it to that. 13 14 Q. Okay. A. Beyond that, I'm disappointed if it wasn't, and

15 that's what I gave it to. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MR. SCRUGGS: Okay, I accept that. Okay, let's take a few minutes, if it's okay with you guys. Is everybody okay? Let's just take a short break, okay? (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) MR. SCRUGGS: Okay, back on the record. Sir, really, just a couple more questions and I'm about finished.

24 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 25 Q. Other than this particular incident that we're

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1 talking about today, do you recall if any other public 2 official has ever called and ask for a donation or 3 anything like that -- I'll leave that broadly, however 4 you want to define it, but I'll call it a donation -5 when you had a matter pending before any public body? 6 A. It could have happened in a broad sense, giving

7 to Katrina or giving to -- but this kind of thing in 8 this time frame, I don't remember one, no, Mr. Scruggs. 9 Q. Okay. Do you have in-house legal counsel or do

10 you retain the services of these gentlemen or other 11 gentlemen? 12 A. We have an in-house counsel who is real estate

13 counsel. 14 Q. Okay, so if you had like an ethics question or a

15 conflict of interest question, again, I'm not -- I don't 16 want to know any details, but who do you have for that? 17 18 19 20 A. I would go to one of my outside firms. Q. Okay, A. White & Case at the time. Q. Okay. Have you ever gone to an outside firm,

21 and, again, I don't want to know the issue -22 23 A. Yes. Q. -- because you may have gotten an opinion and I

24 don't want to get into that, but have you ever gone to 25 an outside firm with issues like ethics, conflicts of

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1 interest or anything like that? 2 3 A. Yes. Q. Generally, do you recall what it was? I don't

4 want to know what was told, so please don't tell me 5 that, but do you recall generally what it was? 6 7 8 9 A. It was a hiring issue. Q. A hiring issue? A. Yes. Q. Generally relating to hiring some official or

10 what? 11 A. Yes. We decided not to do it because of the

12 perception, but we got an opinion it was not, but we 13 didn't hire them. 14 Q. Okay, but in terms of a donation or solicitation

15 for anything, do you recall ever seeking an outside 16 opinion for that? 17 A. I think I'm well-known in the -- I think I'm

18 well-known to the elected officials that they have never 19 asked me for anything improperly, so -20 21 22 23 Q. Okay. A. -- so, no. Q. Okay, I'm sorry, so the answer is no. I seem to recall, and, again, correct me if I'm

24 wrong, I'm not sure I asked you this on the record, but 25 I think in one of our conversations, perhaps, you said

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1 that you really didn't like to do business in the City 2 of Miami. 3 4 5 6 Am I recalling that correctly? A. You are recalling correctly. Q. Okay. Why not? A. The last thing that I built was Museum Tower.

7 That's the big building by I-95 that has the Bank of 8 America, and the hearings were like a zoo, so it was too 9 painful, so I've decided that I didn't -- after I 10 finished that, I swore I would never build in the City 11 of Miami before -- again ever since. 12 13 14 Q. It was just a hassle, right? A. It was just a hassle, yes. Q. Okay. Again, back to the other question just for

15 a second, nobody, because of -- and, again, I'm taking 16 you at your word because, obviously, I do, but you said, 17 because of your reputation/background, that you don't 18 believe anybody has ever made an improper solicitation, 19 correct? 20 21 A. Yes. Q. Okay, and I'm not even going to ask you about

22 this case. 23 24 A. Okay. Q. We'll just put that aside. I'm going to leave

25 your opinion as your opinion, so we'll leave it at that.

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A. Yes, that's my opinion. Q. But at the same time, I guess, you know, that you

3 still would say, though, that, in these particular 4 specific facts, that nobody has ever done anything 5 exactly like this in terms of making a solicitation for 6 anything while you had a matter pending before a public 7 board, right? 8 A. Not within this narrow window, not that I can

9 recall. 10 Q. Okay, and did you consider seeking legal counsel

11 in this particular matter? 12 13 A. After I -MR. RABEN: Excuse me, when?

14 BY MR. SCRUGGS: 15 Q. I'm talking about, okay, after the call was

16 made -17 18 A. Right. Q. -- from whomever in Ms. Spence-Jones's office,

19 did you consider getting a legal opinion or speaking to 20 anybody? 21 A. After I got the e-mail and the flier and I looked

22 through all of that and saw Dade Community Foundation, 23 Burger King, I know that they do their homework when 24 they make a contribution. 25 Q. Well, you're on the board of Burger King, aren't

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1 you? 2 3 4 A. Yes, I was on the board of Burger King, was. Q. Okay. A. Because of that, because of all of those, my

5 antennas had been raised, but after reading all of this, 6 I felt comfortable. I didn't think there was an issue. 7 Q. Okay, so when you looked at all the materials

8 that were presented to you, you had a comfort level 9 which made you believe there is no problem; fair 10 statement? 11 A. Charity, good cause, Dade Community Foundation

12 particularly, Burger King, honoring Barbara 13 Carey-Shuler, event long before, unfortunately, 14 coincided during the time that Ricardo had this, but I 15 chose to do it. 16 Q. Okay, and you would agree with me, though, at

17 least now -- well, I'm not even going to ask that 18 question. 19 20 21 22 A. Okay. Q. Let's just leave it at that, okay? A. Okay. Q. But you took all of those representations as true

23 and accurate, right, to give you that comfort to make 24 the money -- to make the contribution? 25 A. Absolutely, absolutely.

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MR. SCRUGGS: Okay, that's fair enough. Mr. Raben? CROSS EXAMINATION

4 BY MR. RABEN: 5 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Codina. I just have a few

6 questions. Pleasure to meet you. 7 8 A. My pleasure. Q. My client has been charged with grand theft in

9 that acquiring the $12,500 contribution from you in 10 March has been charged under the Florida statute saying 11 that it was a theft. 12 As you sit here today, do you believe that you

13 were the victim of a theft by my client? 14 15 A. No. Q. Okay. Do you believe that you donated money or

16 you made this contribution as a result of fraud, a 17 willful misrepresentation or false premise by my client? 18 A. I made the contribution because of what was on

19 that e-mail, and as I know it today, my money was 20 deposited at the Dade Community Foundation, so I would 21 have to say no. 22 23 24 25 MR. SCRUGGS: I'm sorry, no -- I got confused. THE WITNESS: I said, as I know today, the money was deposited in the Dade Community Foundation, so I would have to say no, I don't think that I was

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defrauded. MR. SCRUGGS: Okay.

3 BY MR. RABEN: 4 5 Q. Now, what you've told us -A. I did think I had been defrauded at one time, but

6 I don't think I have been defrauded. 7 Q. When you say you think you were defrauded at one

8 time, is that based upon the statements that were made 9 to you by Mr. Scruggs when you met with him? 10 11 A. Yes, sir. Q. And now Mr. Scruggs has told you that the

12 statements that he made to you were not true? 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SCRUGGS: I did not -- Mr. Raben, I did not make those statements. I told Mr. Codina that, I assume we're simply talking about whether or not the event occurred, and there was clearly a misunderstanding, and I've apologized for that. I did not say the event did not occur. MR. RABEN: Well, if we can just agree that Mr. Codina has told us under oath that you said to him the event did not occur, and you told Mr. Codina that you knew the event did occur, we can agree that the record will reflect that. MR. SCRUGGS: No, we can agree there was a misunderstanding. That's all I'll agree to.

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1 2 BY MR. RABEN: 3 Q. It's my understanding, Mr. Codina, that your

4 thought process in terms of where the money was going to 5 go would be based solely upon the e-mail solicitation 6 that you received and a brief conversation you had with 7 the staff member from District 5; is that correct? 8 9 A. It was really what was in that e-mail. Q. Okay, so that, rather than say that the money was

10 to defray the cost of an event or for scholarships or 11 for goodwill, you would choose to rely upon whatever is 12 contained in the e-mail as what you relied upon as to 13 where the money was going to go? 14 A. What was contained in the e-mail, to be

15 administered by the Dade Community Foundation. 16 Q. In other words, you relied upon the e-mail, and

17 the touchstone information that you received, the most 18 important information is, as long as the Dade Community 19 Foundation was going to administer it, you were 20 comfortable donating the money? 21 22 A. Yes. Q. Okay, and in terms of what the money was going to

23 be for, would you agree that it was an unrestricted gift 24 to the charity to be administered at the discretion of 25 the Dade Community Foundation?

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A. Yes. If Dade Community Foundation deemed it to

2 be a legitimate charity, I'm perfectly okay with that. 3 I can't replace my judgment for theirs. 4 5 Q. You trusted their judgment? A. Yes, I trust them. I trust the Dade Community

6 Foundation to a large degree. 7 Q. And in terms of whatever else you relied upon,

8 it's my understanding that, when you were assured that 9 it was about to be or it would be a 501(c)3 charity 10 administered by the Dade Community Foundation, those 11 were the two important criteria, from your point of 12 view? 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SCRUGGS: And I'll object to that, because there is absolutely no proof that you were told it was about to be. That's your own editorial statement. THE WITNESS: No, I told you what I was told -MR. RABEN: Please. THE WITNESS: -- because I asked for a 501(c)3 certificate, and they told me, "We don't have it, but we're in the process of being formed with the money being deposited at the Dade Community Foundation." I said, "Put it in writing," and that gave me the reason, so very little was said to me, but I was told they didn't have a 501(c)3 certificate, and I relied strictly on the e-mail that I received.

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1 BY MR. RABEN: 2 Q. All right. Were you aware that the Codina Group

3 eventually received a 501(c)3 certificate from the Dade 4 Community Foundation? 5 6 7 (Discussion off the record.) THE WITNESS: Say that again. I didn't understand.

8 BY MR. RABEN: 9 Q. Were you aware that sometime in August of 2006,

10 your company received a 501(c)3 certificate from the 11 Dade Community Foundation? 12 13 A. No, I was not aware. Q. Okay, and the only other question I have for you

14 is, after the indictment was returned in this case, did 15 you have communications with an individual by the name 16 of Bruce Rubin? 17 18 19 A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us who Mr. Rubin is? A. Mr. Rubin is a public relations gentleman, kind

20 of retired now but still active with us, because he's 21 represented me and my firm for many, many years. 22 Q. Did you collaborate with individuals which

23 resulted in Bruce Rubin making a statement on your 24 behalf? 25 A. We got many, many calls during the time when this

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1 broke, and we thought the best way to address it would 2 be for Bruce to talk to the press. I didn't talk to the 3 press. 4 5 6 Q. Did you read the statement that Mr. Rubin -A. You would have to show it to me to see if -Q. Well, let me show you what I received as what

7 I'll refer to as Bruce Rubin's statement. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 MR. SCRUGGS: May I see that after you finish? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. JOSEFSBERG: What's the date of that? MR. RABEN: It would have been mid March of 2010. THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. RABEN: All right. THE WITNESS: Yes, I -MR. SCRUGGS: May I see it? MR. SREBNICK: (Complies.) MR. SCRUGGS: Thank you. THE WITNESS: Yes, I don't have any problem with that statement.

20 BY MR. RABEN: 21 Q. All right, so having read that statement that

22 went out beneath the name of Bruce Rubin, would you 23 agree that that accurately reflects your thought process 24 back when that statement was issued in March of 2010? 25 A. Yes, sir.

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MR. RABEN: Okay. MR. JOSEFSBERG: Before you go any further with it, I just want you to know that Bruce, although Bruce Rubin has done work for Mr. Codina and the Codina Group, Mr. Rubin was employed by me on this matter and was acting as my agent, and as to any conversations or anything else, they may have some privilege issues. MR. RABEN: I have no intention of asking Mr. Codina any questions about that. MR. SCRUGGS: And I'm fine. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, Mr. Codina, is that -- and, again, you can look at that if you want to -- that pretty much, in sum and substance, is what you said today, right? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. SCRUGGS: Excuse me? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. SCRUGGS: All right.

19 BY MR. RABEN: 20 Q. Well, let me ask you, it says here, and I quote,

21 "Armando Codina responded to a request from Michelle 22 Spence-Jones to contribute to an event honoring 23 Commissioner Barbara Carey-Shuler.