Transcript 119th January 2015

Aditya and I went to a village, which is near to our college named Pethapur. This village is famous for block carvings for block printing. We went there to explore more crafts that are being practiced there by the artisans. First we went to Prakash Bhais shop who is one of the famous block makers there. He explained about his work and since how long he has been doing this and showed us some of the samples of his work. His younger brother Bharat Bhai took show different kinds of crafts that were being practiced in the village. He introduced us to an old man, known as Kaaka ji, who was standing in front of a temple. Bharat Bhai told him what we were looking for and then Kaaka ji took us to that temple. He told us that the Maharaj ji (priest) of this temple himself makes all the ornamental dresses for the gods and goddesses. We were quite fascinated to know this because we had never heard or seen a priest doing all this for his temple. There were two layers of door at the entrance. One was a blue colored metal door that was locked but had a small opening towards the right side and the other was just behind it. It was a huge heavy looking wooden door and was very colorful. Right in front there was a beautifully decorated temple. One could find all the possible colors there. Towards the right side there were three rooms out of which two were open and one was locked. In front of the second room there was a black color sewing machine. Probably that was Maharaj jis home only.

We met Maharaj ji and told him that we are NID students and wanted to work with him for our project and explained everything about it. He was wearing a white colored Dhoti with a grey sweater and was wearing spectacles also. Though his hair were jet black but one could make out that he dyed them. He might be in his early 60s. I noticed he was wearing a hearing aid in his left year. There was a lady also, wearing salwar kameez, might be 35+, who was standing next to him. Right now I cannot comment anything about her relationship with Maharaj ji. We had a brief discussion with him regarding his work. We got to know that he makes all these ornamental dresses not just for his temple but for other temples as well. So other than performing rituals in a temple he makes all the ornamental dresses also. He seemed to be interested in having a conversation with us regarding his work. He himself went inside and brought some of his work. While showing that to us he asked that lady to make tea for us.

We saw some of his creations and they looked amazing. But it was quite strange that Bharat Bhai didnt even know about it. While he was showing it, he had a constant smile on his face. It made me feel how excited he was.

That lady got tea for all of us in transparent glasses. I could smell the fragrance of tulsi in it. While sipping the tea Maharaj ji told us about himself. He told us that he used to stay in a village named Koba and shifted to Pethapur 7 years back. Since then he has been performing all the rituals in this temple. For the past 30 years he has been working as a priest in different temples and he himself made the ornamental dresses for those temples and for other temples as well. So in a way he works at two different areas which coincide at a single platform.

We could not see anyone else in his house so we asked him if he was staying alone to which he replied that his family had gone somewhere so because of that he has to do some household stuff as well.

After all of this conversation we asked him if we could come tomorrow as well. He gave his number and asked us to call him before coming. Then we left from there and went back to college.

Transcript 222nd January 2015

Since Maharaj ji asked us to call him before coming so we did the same. We couldnt go the other day because he had to go to some wedding.

We reached there at around 3 pm. There was another lady whom we didnt meet during our previous visit. She was wearing a floral print saree which she had draped in gujarati style. She had a big red colored bindi on her forehead and had made a bun of her jet-black colored hair. She was even wearing spectacles. I saw she was wearing silver rings in her feet. Married women generally wear these rings. Maharaj ji told us that she was his wife to which she then smiled. He used the word aurat for her. Maharaj ji had that classic smile on his face when we met him. That smile on his face looked like a very genuine smile and not a fake one. He offered us chairs to sit on.

Me : kaise ho Maharaj ji aap?Maharaj ji : acha hu (smiling)Me: acha maharaj ji aap ko yaha kaam karte hue kitna samay ho gaya?Maharaj ji : pehle mai kahi or kaam karta tha aur saat baras ho gaya hai yahaMe : aap pehle koba me hi kaam karte the?Maharaj ji : haan koba meMe : waha kitne saal kaam kia hai aapne?Maharaj ji : (after a pause) bees saal

(His expressions changed when I asked that. They were like what we generally make when we try to recall something, like a frowning face.)

Me : waha bhi aap yahi kaam karte the?Maharaj ji : haan ye kaam karte the or yaha bhi aa karMe : or aapne ye banana kaise seekha? Kisi se seekha ya aapne khud ne hiMaharaj ji : kya?

(I guess he could hear properly what I was asking him. He made a frowning face that made me feel that he was clueless about the question I had asked him. I then noticed he wasnt wearing his hearing aid today. I then repeated myself)

Maharaj ji : nahi khud seekha. Ye kya hai apne hisaab se maine banaya hai. Dekho bada bada paag dekhta hu mandiro me waha jaake or mai sochta hu, fir pehle kya karta hu, pehle toh koi humari murti ka yaha bhagwan ka maap nikaalta hu ki kaise banta hai. Dekho ye hisaab aa jata hai na, ye hisaab aega itna ye sab banata hu, dekho ye hisaab dekhna padta hai( he was showing the circumference of the Mukhut he had made . Instantly he had a smile on his face when he said apne hisaab se maine banaya hai and his eyebrows raised a little,eyes went a little bigger and was nodding his head left and right. This made me feel that he was proud that he learnt it himself. Also when he used the word maap he again had a smile on his face. Whenever he gave some of his insights in regard to what he does he always had that smile, that quick smile.) Ye hisaab aega toh ban jaega. Ye maap hai na soch sochke kia. Pehle toh rough kaagaz pe sab kia, chota chota banaya. Aur kaisa banaya? Kacha banaya, pakka nhi. Kacha banake isme kya karta tha, aur machine ka kaam nahi karta tha, sui (needle) ka kaam karta tha. Haath se banake isko waha mai rakhta. Tab do-teen chaar trial me maap aa gaya ki isko esa hi karna hai. Dekho ye maap humara hai ( he measured the circumference of his head with a measuring tape which was kept on his sewing machine table to demonstrate how he takes the measurement to make Mukhut. He could also differentiate between the two sides of the measuring tape by seeing the patten on them) ye maap hai na, ye kitna hai, baawis hai (placing his index finger on 22 ) 22.

Me : haanjiMaharaj ji : isme ye maap ata hai na, isme paanch plus kia jaata haiMe : paanch inch?Maharaj ji : haan paanchMe : paanch kisliye?Maharaj ji : haan (he said it with a stretch), wo esa hi maap hota hai (laughs) ( with trial and error method he analyzed that 5 inches needs to be added to the measurement to make the mukhut fit properly) dekho yaha humara bhagwan ka maap hai na wo baarah (12) haiAditya : baarah inch?Maharaj ji : haan baarah hai

(he didnt say any unit for the measurement. When we asked him about 5 inch and 12 inch, he just agreed to the number 5 and 12. So maybe he knew which side of the measuring tape to use and irrespective of the unit he was taking all the measurements. Also he referred to the statue of gods in his temple as humara bhagwan, as the size of the mukhut he was showing and talking about was the one he made for his temple.)

ye esa hum maapte hai toh baarah ban jaata hai. Or isme dekho maine kya kia satra (17) banaya, tum sochlo (laughs). Banega? Nahi banega? Banega tum dekho

(the way he was saying all that it was like he was telling about his secret recipe and would do things that doesnt seems to be even near to happening. Then he started cutting the fabric to show that whatever he talked about the measurements was right and how he makes it)

Aditya : paanch toh kaafi zada hai Pandit jiMaharaj ji : hmmm, haan wohi (laughs) maine ye sab esa kia , kacha kaam karke karke waha rakh dia. Wo maap neeche ka, golai ka maap ata hai na, wo baarah hota hai, toh humara maap sacha hota hai. Baarah nahi hota hai, chaudha (14) hota hai sola (16) hota hai toh maap nahi aega. Kaise maap aega? Lekin ye maap maine kia dekho, ye satra hai na, dekh lia?We: hmmmMaharaj ji : ye satra hai, pura satra

( he then started making the measurements he took, on a brown colored cardboard sheet which he uses to make the ornamental dresses and cut it with scissors. He repeated the same thing on a white colored fabric also.)

Maharaj ji : isme paanch inch zada karna hota hai, maap se bhi paanch inch zada karna hota haiMe : par aapne ye kaise andaaza lagaya ki paanch inch zada karna hota haiMaharaj ji : haan( stretching the word and again that smile appeared on his face, when was generally visible whenever we asked him anything related to his art or maybe his experience or maybe he was confident and proud of something he did) pehle sath se kaam karte hai, pin laga dete hai, safety pin aati hai na wo yaha laga dete hai. Dekho or uska yaha ghumaake ese kar dete hai. Aur ye golai aati hai na ye baarah ban jaati hai, isiliye esa karna padta hai. Samajh gaye?

( he seemed to be very happy after showing that to us. While Maharaj ji was explaining us everything, his wife whom we called Kaaki, came out from the kitchen holding a metal kettle in her right hand and 3 white saucers in her left hand. I thought she would get the cups in the next round to the kitchen and maybe this was her crockery that she uses when someone comes to visit them. The other day that another lady served us tea in glasses. So maybe she wasnt a part of the family and didnt know about all this.She kept one saucer on the right side on the Maharaj jis table and poured the tea into that only. And the other two on the floor next to Aditya and me and then poured tea for us in that. Aditya and I looked at eachother because we had never had tea like this before. But at the same time we didnt even mind having it like that and didnt even make them feel so. The tea had strong ginger flavor which I really enjoyed having.)

Aditya : samajh gaya. Toh ye aapne pehle karke dekha hoga fir andaaza aapko maaloom hua hoga ki ese hota haiMaharaj ji : haan mere hisaab se maine kia haiAditya : shuru shuru me toh kabhi galat ban jaata hogaMaharaj ji : ye kaam kya hota hai, monopoly hota hai. Ye dhanda ( business) wale hota hai na wo humko nahi batate. Kyun? Humko batate toh hum , humara abhiyas ho jaata, abhiyas ho jata toh unse aage bhad jaate, unse aage bhad jaate toh means humara dhanda chalta hai, uska dhanda dim ho jata hai. Nahi batate (laughs)

(I was quite shocked to hear the word monopoly from him. I somehow didnt expect him using these English words. Maybe because he was staying in a village and I assumed him to be not much educated since he was a priest.When he was saying humko nahi batate, there was a sudden change in his expressions. Somewhere his expressions showed that he was sad about all these things.)

Ye maap hai na kahi book me bhi nahi hota. Guidance kahi se nahi milta , apne seekh seekh ke karna padta hai. Guidance mile humko toh wo kaam se bhi zada acha hota hai. Lekin guidance humko milta hi nahi (laughs). Ye dhanda wale hote hai na wo nahi batate hai humko. Aur usko maaloom ho jaye ki wo ye kaam karta hai na toh wo apna kaam band karke baith jaye humari taraf. Humare saath baat cheet karte rehte hai aur kuch nahi

Me : taaki aap dekh na sako ki kaise kaam karte hai?Maharaj ji :haan taaki dekh na sake. Hum dekhle toh humko uski practice sab maaloom padd jaye. Maaloom padd jaaye toh uska dhanda dim ho jae, humara dhanda acha chale. Esi soch hoti hai lekin esa hai nahi.Aditya : dusro ko sikhane se apni kala thodi na chali jaegiMaharaj ji : haan lekin wo kya hota hai ki uska narrow mind hota hai. Ye sab sochne wale hote hai na ye sab narrowmind ke hote hai lekin esa hai nahi. Hai?Aditya : nahiMaharaj ji : koi baat nahi. Wo koi bhi seekh leta hai toh achi baat hai, usme kya hai. Koi diggad hi nahi honi chahiye. Lekin ese soch hoti hai. Dekho Ahmedabad hai na, Ahmedabad me mathupur hai, uske peeche wale bhaag me esa sab kaam banta hai. Wo paag (mukhut) toh nahi banata, ye toh nahi banta hai lekin dusra bhagwan ke dress esa sab banate hai

( Aditya was sipping the tea and by mistake a little of it spilled on his foot. Maharaj ji noticed changed in his expressions)

Maharaj ji : kya hua?Aditya : thodi si neeche gir gayiMaharaj ji : padd gayi?Aditya : haanMaharaj ji :toh waha maine bahut try kia seekhne ke liye par maine toh kya hum toh ek dafa uski dukaan pe baithe, humara thoda parichay kia, maine bataya ki mereko seekhna hai toh usne kaam band kar diaMe : kitni purani baat hai ye?Maharaj ji : ye baat hai(trying to recollect) bahut purani haiMe : yaad nahi hai aapko kitna samay huaMaharaj ji : (nodding his head) bahut purani hai. Dekho na tees saal se toh mai ye dhanda kar raha huAditya : toh usse pehle jab aapne seekha hoga tab ki baat hogiMaharaj ji : haannnMe : toh aapka dhanda shuru karne se pehle ki baat hai yeMaharaj ji : haan pehle ki baat hai ye. Usne nahi bataya ( showing his thumb). Mai paitees (35) minute baitha toh usne toh kya dusri koi baat humare sath charcha ki or ye

(I feel somewhere he feels bad about why people have such attitude. Whenever he talked about it his face would go low, not literally. While talking to us he started talking to his wife in gujarati. I think he was asking her to clean the floor where the tea was spilled. For few minutes the whole conversation stopped)

Me : kal shadi se kitne baje aaye aap Maharaj ji?Aditya : yahi pe kisi ki shadi thi ya aap kahi bahar gaye theMaharaj ji : sham ko aa gaya tha mai lekin diggad kya thi, mai aaya toh yaha pe baarish ho gayiMe : haan kal bahut baarish huiAditya : kaafi acha thanda ho gaya tha kalMaharaj ji : haannnMe : acha Maharaj ji aap jo ye sab design banate ho, pehle kisi paper pe banate ho ya khud se hi seedha.Maharaj ji : jo design banti hai wo? Tum dekho. Ye banake mai tumko dikhata huMe : nahi wo naye design banate ho jo woMaharaj ji : naye design? (I think he was confirming what I said. Whenever we asked something other than what he was telling us he would repeat it, and look at us, his head a little low and eyes looking a little upward, change in his expressions which made me feel that he was trying to understand the question inorder to answer it. He was wearing bifocal lens. People who wears these kind of spectacles generally do so to make eye contact. Also we might not be properly audible to him as he wasnt wearing his hearing aid.)Me : haan. Ya aap kahi kuch dekhte ho or fir banate hoMaharaj ji : wo toh kya hai wo naye design me toh dekhna padegaAditya : jaise ki aapko agar koi naya design banana ho toh aap use khud banake dekhengeMe : isi pe banake dekhenge ya pehle kaagaz pe banate hai

( I think he wasnt getting what exactly we were saying. Also we had to repeat it because he has hearing problem)

Maharaj ji : esa koi banate nahi but esi ho na koi tasveero ( pointing towards a photograph on the calendar hanging on the wall) ko mai dekhe hi. Ki dekho ye kaisa hai, ye banana hai toh sochte hai (laughs) fir koi apna esa kaagaz nikaalke (referring to white cloth he had) usme thoda ese ese karke( drawing pattern on that cloth), drama banate hai or usko ese cutting karte hai. Aur ab toh kya hota hai, isme itni mastery aa gayi hai toh ye toh bahut karna nahi padta, pehle bahut karna padta tha ( i think here he was referring to struggle to make something on our own)

(he made that pattern to show us how he does it. He asked his wife to get something from inside. He was speaking in gujarati with her. He was asking her to get some peacock thing from inside.)

Maharaj ji : peacock banaye hai. PeacockAditya : aapki dharam patni ko bhi aata hai kya ye sab?Maharaj ji : (showing what he was making) ye dekho ban gaya. Isko hum kya karte hai ki hum isko chipka dete hai. Stone hota hai na, wo solution hota hai, solution bhi humare paas hai ( referring to a solution he uses for pasting. From his expressions, his smile and the way he said this I felt that). Jab banega na tumko maaloom ho jaega sab. Stone samajhte ho?Me : haan haanMaharaj ji : kya hotaAditya : wo yellow color ka jo hota haiMaharaj ji : nahi wo stone hota hai na jo lagate hai, tumhari dress me lagate haiMe : wo alag alag rang ke jo hote haiMaharaj ji : haan. Wo lagate hai na

(Kaaki then brought a blue plastic bag which had his different creations to show it to us)

Maharaj ji : ye dekho

( he looked very happy and excited to show all of that to us)

Aditya : maharaj ji ye toh bahut acha kia hai aapneMaharaj ji : haan ye sab maine kia hai ! ( there was a little volume and heaviness in his voice when he said that. That proud feeling was visible in his tone). wo toh kaapad( kapda or cloth) hi tha, dekho esa kaapad tha (showing the fabric that he used to make that)

(Kaaki then showed everything one by one to us. I sat down to have a closer look at them)

Me : toh ye aap mandir me bichane ke liye haiKaaki : haan( then she said something in gujarati which I couldnt understand)Maharaj ji : haan ye humare bhagwan ke hai (laughs). Haan ( smiles!. ) humare bhagwan ke liye hai ( he looked very happy about it and was continuously admiring it) pehle toh maine kya kia humare bhagwan ke sab jitne bhi design humare magaj me thi na wo isme kardi, kyun? Taaki humari jaahiraat ho jaye. Jab jab humare paas graahak aate hai, hum batate hai esa banana hai itna paisa lagega, ye banana hai esa lagega. Or baadme maine kya kia ye sab maine banaya wo baad me banake jab jab koi ata hai grahak toh mai bulata hu. Dekho tumhe kal ana ho toh tum kal aoge, kal aoge toh mai kya karta hu ki ye tumko pasand aayi toh mai sham ko subah me mai ye sab dress bhagwan ko pehna dunga. Or tum jab aoge na toh tumhe dikhata hu ki kaisa lagega. Wo khush ho jata hai. Mereko toh kahi kahi se inaam bhi mila hua haiAditya : inaam bhi mila hai aapkoMaharaj ji : haan ji. Inaam bhi mil gaya hai humkoKaaki : haan maharaj ko inaam bhi milaMaharaj ji : bahut bada inaam nahi, lekin humare toh kya ek rupiya bhi mile na toh humari kadar hoti hai. (I think he was happy and satisfied that his work was being appreciated and what made him feel even more happy and proud of his work was that he himself learnt everything). Dekho ek gaon tha nardipur gaon. Nardipur me maine banayaAditya : bhagwan ke kapdeMaharaj ji : haan bhagwan ke kapde. Usne humko che hazaar rupiye ( 6000 rs) diye or humare charcha karke karke paanch pachaas rakhe, paanch paanso(5500) or maine banaya. Mai jake usko banake, wo bola ki tum maharaj ji fit kardo. Maine fit kia or fir jab fit kia na gyarah sau (1100) inaam dia(laughs).Aditya: unhone firse diyaMaharaj ji : haan. Paanch paanso toh de diya lekin gyarah sau rupiya bhi diya. Wo hi hai humara inaam (laughs). Ye kya baat hai ki jab khush ho jata hai na, tum apne tareeko se kaam humare paas karana chahte ho lekin tumhare se bhadkar bhi kaam hota hai na toh aadmi khush ho jata hai. Do teen bar esa hua hai. Humare tees baras ki service me keval do teen bar hume esa anubhav hua hai (laughs) esa hota hai (laughs)Aditya : maharaj ji humare college me ek din aake aap class le sakte hoMaharaj ji : haan? (he couldnt hear what Aditya said)Aditya : ek din humare college me ek class le sakte hai, sab sikha sakte haiMaharaj ji : kya? (I guess he still couldnt listen it properly so Aditya once again repeated himself)Tumhare college me? Kxaha hai yeAditya : ye GH-0 peMe : yahi gandhinagar meMaharaj ji : GH-0? ( from his tone he seemed to have recognized the place)Kaaki : haan haan infocity aagatMaharaj ji : infocity? Haann( I didnt feel if he still understood it completely)Aditya : kitne ache aapne ye banaye haiMaharaj ji : kya? ( he again couldnt hear it properly)Kaaki : acha banaya hai (she spoke it a bit louder so dat he could hear it properly)Maharaj ji : haan wo toh acha banaya hai, acha banaya hai ( he looked a little confused, maybe he coudnt understand what we were talking about)Aditya : kaafi acha banaya haiMaharaj ji : haan kaafi acha banaya hai. Wo isme kya hai na isme hum sab rakhte hai, isme hum solution laga dete hai ( opening a drawer to show it) isme toh silaai lagti hai (pointing at embroided patch). Usko rakhke machine laga dia or ye hai na isme humne solution rakha hai ( he was showing his different techniques for different kind of work. And he and aditya came and sat down where I and Kaaki were sitting) ye tika laga dia (laughs) sab teeka humne lagaya hai. Ye design humne banai hai (I could again feel a sense of achievement and proud feeling in his tone) Wo toh ese hi kaapad tha, dekho plain hi kaapad tha, lekin ye design humne banayi haiMe : ye aapne kahi dekha tha ya khud se banaya haiKaaki : na kahi dekhya nahiMaharaj ji : humne na kahi dekha nahi. Maine soch kia (kaaki smiled at this) ki esa banaenge toh kaisa lagega. Toh mai jab jab humari soch hoti hai na toh isme kya mai banata hu toh bahut acha hi lagta hai (laughs) mereko acha lagta hai. Jab mereko acha lagta hai na tab sab khush ho jaate hai.

( he then picked one of his creation from that bag and showed to us)Aditya : ye toh bahut acha haiMaharaj ji : ye humne banaya na, usne humko baarah hazar rupiya(12000) diyaMe : ye jinke liye aapne banaya hai?Maharaj ji : haan ji. Wo ye sab banana ka, ye sab pura dress hai, sab bhagwan ki. Aur ye sab saat aath hazaar (7000-8000) me ban jaata hai lekin usne humko baarah hazaar rupiya de dia. Ye dekho isko toh ek baras bhi nahi huaOr ye banana walo Bombay hai. Yaha hai hi nahiAditya : acha mandir uska Bombay me hai?Maharaj ji : nahi wo toh bahut bada builder hai. Jisne banaya hai na jisne banwaya hai wo hi Bombay rehte hai. Yaha ki girls hai na, wo unke ghar me hai. Yaha ka jamaai (son-in-law) hai wo, pethapur kaAditya : acha! Ladki yaha se byahi haiMaharaj ji : haan

( this made me feel that how he feels that the entire village is like a family. Instead of referring that person as someone elses son in law he said yaha ka)

wo ek dafa yaha aaye mandir me aur ye humara dress dekha, usne mujhko bulaya, mai toh kaam kar raha tha, yaha aaya, bithaya,chai pilaya. Humare ko banana hai, kitna lagega, zada me zada( he was talking about that guy from bombay). Tum jo chaaho jitna paise kharcho utna bana dunga. Saat aath hazaar rupiya ho jaega esa maine bola. Koi bata ni banao jitna lagega mai dunga.Mai banaya fir waha Diwali ke dusre teesre din aya aur dekha baarah hazaar rupiya de dia. Dekho esi baat hai (laughs) humne kia hi nahi tha ki humko baarah hazaar tum do, wo khush ho gaya, khush ho gaya humko de diya toh humne le lia (laughs)Me : toh abhi wo lene aenge ye saara samaanMaharaj ji : hain?(Aditya repeated what I said to him)Kaaki : na saaman maharaj ke liye haiMe : ye le kab jaenge fir wo?Maharaj ji : ye le nahi jaenge, ye sab humare bhagwan ke liye kiya hai

( Aditya and I thought that that Bombay guy asked Maharaj ji to make it for him so that he could take it for his mandir)Maharaj ji : samajh gaye?Aditya : haan haanMaharaj ji : tum aaye acha hua, tumko bhagwan ke bhav hua hai or bole Maharaj ji tum apne taraf se banao, toh kya tum le jaoge? Nahi le jaoge (laughs)Me : nahi hume laga ki unhone apne mandir ke liye banwaye hai aapseMaharaj ji : humara trust hai na usko toh pramaan patra dia hai. Usne pramaan patra dia hai. Humare paas uski nakal (copy) haiMe : kya likha hai usme?Maharaj ji : usme likha hai ki aapka samman kia hai, banana wale ka, humare mandir ki taraf se sammaan kia hai usko ( I could again see that enlightening smile on his face which he had earlier when he was talking about kadar)Wo hai mere paas, mai dikhauMe : haanji dikhaiye

( he then went inside to a room which was near the main temple entrance. He always looked every excited to show his work or anything related to what he does.)

Aditya : aunty aap bhi banate ho kya iski? Dono milke aap banate ho?Kaaki : madad karadu, maharaj kiMe : baaki sab maharaj ji khud karte hai naKaaki : haan haanAditya : toh aapko kaisa lagta hai maharaj ji ese kapde banate hai. Acha lagta hai maharaj ji ese kapde banate hai sundar sundarKaaki : (laughs!....she said something in gujarati which I couldnt understand clearly)

( then maharaj ji came from inside holding a crisp white paper in his hand. He showed that to us, since it was written in gujarati we couldnt read it ourselves, so he read it for us. The paper was in such a good condition that it seemed as if he got that sometime back only, with no folds on it or maybe he had kept it in a safe place.He then started showing his work that kaaki had got from inside.)

Maharaj ji : ye dekho kya hai,dupatta. Jaise hum rakhte hai na, narendra modi rakhte hai( everybody laughs) . dekho isme murti nahi hai toh bhi ye humara banaya hua kaise lagta hai dekho,murti hai hi nahi lekin khade rehte hai, padd ni jaate(laughs)(he would always laugh out of joy whenever he told something that had his techniques and experience in it.) choti si murti ati hai wo waha rakhi hai. Jab Krishna ka janam hota hai na tab pehnate hai ise, or jhoola me rakhke jhoolate hai. Mai dekhta hu toh koi mandir me esa jhoola nahi hai, esa jhoola humare paas hai, bahut kalaatmak. Iski kala tum dekhoge na toh dekhte reh jaoge, esi kala hai isme, bahut achiAditya : wo jhoola kisne banaya hai maharaj jiMaharaj ji : banaya?Aditya : haan kisne banaya haiMaharaj ji : ye toh humko maaloom nahi. Ye mandir hai na toh wo bolte hai dhaai sau baras ho gaya. Ye hai na ye pura state tha ,Thakur sahib thi uski hakumat chalti thi, british government me.

( he then told us some story about pethapur and its fort and about the kings family. He then told about some chetan das maharaj for whom he said that he had ishvariya Shakti. He was then telling about ram dev mandir for which he made some ornamental dresses and saidwaha humari kala hai and was giving details of the work he did there.)

Maharaj ji : jab tum yaha pe ao or humse puchoge ki kitna time lagega ise banana me toh mai ek months batata hu. Kyun? Hum abhi toh kisi ka kaam chal raha hai, dekho ek kaam chal raha hai aur kaam aa jae toh mai ye kaise band kar sakta hu (laughs). Ye bhi time table rakhna padta hai. Or jab bahut kaam aa jata hai na toh mai raat ko bhi kaam chaalu rakhta huMe: ye sab kaam aap kahi likhke rakhte hai?Maharaj ji : haan, sabka kaam hai na karke rakhta hu. Koi jaldi bole toh nahi karta, usko chorh deta hu ki nahi banega. Ek baar koi aya tha na ki Diwali pe chahiye, jo paisa lagega lelo. Humne kaha nahi banega. Jo chahe lelo,humne kaha nahi banega. Ye koi jaadu mantar wala khel toh hai nahi ki hum bana de. Usne bahut bola, wo chala gaya, dusre din aya wo chala gaya, teesre din aya wo chala gaya, maine nahi banaya, kaise bana deta, yaha kaam chalta tha dusre gaon wale ka, dhinkucha gaon kaMaine bola jab tum aoge tab tees din humko deo toh tumhara banega. Fir saath(60) din ke pehle aaye wo, maine le lia kaam,wok hush ho gaye. Wo bhi esa hi banaya hai(laughs) wo bahut khush ho gayeMe : aap ye sab banana ka kitne paise lete hai?Maharaj ji : wo toh dekho na ye humara mandir hai na, ye humara mandir paanch hazaar me banta hai. Ye latest banana hai toh aath hazzar me(8000) hota hai. Wo ram dev ji ka mandir hai na usme tees hazaar (30,000) kharch hua hai. Sab kaapad unhi ka tha or maine chaar paanch so (4500) liye the, mazduri ke. Mai jitna bolta hu na mujhe utna de dete hai, aur mai kya hai mai esa karta hu ki kisi ke paas zada paisa nahi leta, humare hisaab se jo hota hai wo hi leta hu. Dekho baarah hazaar hota hai toh mai pandhra(15) bolu toh pandhra de dete hai. Lekin ese acha nahi hota hai, ye maalik hai na ye khush nahi rahega. Hum khush hai, humare parivar se khush hai, humare ladke se khush hai or humari soch Shakti hai na usne di toh ese kisi ko rulane k liye nahi, hasaane ke liye di hai esi soch hai humari, sabko khush karne ke liye hai kisi ko diggad karne ke liye nahi (laughs) ye humara jeevan hi esa hai, mandiro me kaam karte hai toh humare kaam se koi khush ho jaye toh bas yahi humaari moodi hai. Dekho sabne taali bajai, hum khush ho gaya. Ye kaam kia tum khush ho gaye, tum yaha gaye haste haste gaye toh hum khush ho jaenge, esi baat hai. Paisa toh kya hai do number karte hai na usko bhi milta hai, ye mazduri nahi karni padti hai lekin ye achi baat nahi hai. Dekho achi baat hai? Achi baat nahi hai

( he started making a mukhut on his sewing machine to give us a demo of how he works and different techniques he uses to make it and was talking to us about what we do and was telling different stories about the village and the work they do. He was appreciating others work also.)

Aditya : pandit ji aap school gaye the bachpan me? Konsi kaksha tak padhe haiMaharaj ji : maine? Old ssc. Humare paas certi hai aur maine paas ki na old ssc tab toh mujhe naukri bhi milti thi.Me : kis cheez ki naukri mili thi aapko?Maharaj ji : pehle toh isme milti thi, gujarati teacher me.Me : toh wo aapne nahi kari?Maharaj ji : nahi kari, uska pagaar hi nahi tha,saath(60) rupiya. Aur mai jab padhta tha na toh mai esa seekh leta thaAditya : ye sab bhi kar lete the tab aap?Maharaj ji : haan haan. Humare father the na wo esa rakhte the machine or humari choti behna hai, sister, teen. Toh kya pehle toh toys, ramakda hota hai na, choti choti bachiya aur wo un putle ke saath khelte hai. Uska mai dress banata tha( laughs). Wo dolls hoti thi na mai uska kapda banata tha (laughs)Aditya : toh apni sister ko banake dete theMaharaj ji : haan usko banake, usko pehna ke or usko de deta tha. Toh humari choti behna thi na wo uske sath khelti thi, ese humari shuruwat huiMe : toh aap milte rehte hai apni behno seMaharaj ji : (very happily he said) haan kal mila tha shadi me, humari behna bhi ayi thi, uski bhabhi bhi mili thi. Tees taareek ko aegi wo yaha. Humare se choti hai wo. Apne vatan me rehti haiMe : aap sabse bade hai apne ghar meMaharaj ji : haan sabse bada mai hu (laughs) or humari behan toh choti hai humare se. kal mili thi humko, gaadi leke aai thiDekho humari mumy hai, kal humari mumy ko dekhke aaye (while we were talking to maharaj ji, kaaki was sitting with that another lady. That lady was doing mopping at that time. She must be their maid)

Me : aur aapke pita ji (father)?Maharaj ji : humare pitaji do saal ho gaye, uska dehaant ho gaya. Yaha the humare paas. Aur bilkul wo cycle chalaata tha. Cycle chalaake ghumte the wo, bahut acha shareer (body ) tha. Lekin maine kya kia ki wo toilet me jab jaate the toh khoon ata tha. Maine bataya toh doctor ne bola bada aatda hai ( large intestine) usme kuch diggad hai toh operation karna padega. Toh maine bahut kharach kia, do laakh kharach kia mere pita ke peeche, lekin nahi bacha. Mujhe esa laga na wo doctor ne humko esa bola ki tum esa karaoge toh tumhare pita ji ache ho jaenge. Diggad koi nahi thi, usko (father) koi kathinai bhi nahi thi, khoon ata tha thoda, aur koi peeda(problem) nahi thi. Maine socha ki ye acha ho jata hai toh koi baat nahi. Toh usne operation kia, lekin bache nahi. Yaha dawa khaana (hospital) me dehaant ho gaya.Uski umar nabhe (90) thi or maine socha ki ye acha ho jaega isliye mai le gaya. Ab pachtawa hua hai ki nahi le gaya hota toh acha hai. Mere father chalke waha gaye, mai dekhta reh gaya. Ye doctor ne paisa lene ke liye humare sath esa kia. Mujhe abhi bhi ranjh ho gaya hai ki esa karna hi nahi tha, lekin ho gaya. Ab dekho mai raat me sota hu, jab jab esa vichaar ata hai, tab mujhe apne baapu ji ki bahut yaad aati hai, maine galat kia ye, galat kaam kar dia

( somewhere in his heart he feels betrayed and regrets that he shouldnt have taken his father to the hospital. That feeling could be seen on his expressions and the change in tone he had while he was talking about it)

Me : lekin aap agar operation nahi karwate or baad me kuch ho jata unhe toh bhi toh aapko lagta ki operation karwa lena chahiye thaMaharaj ji : ye bhi baat theek hai. Ye kya hota hai ye zamaana hai na, maine kai doctor ko bataya sirf ek hi ko nahi. Sab kia maine pehle, baad me nirnay (decision) lia. Pehle toh sab jagah ghuma mai. Wo bahut old the lekin sakht the (healthy). Uska mai photo batau na.(he asked kaaki to get a photo of his father from inside)aur baapuji humara esa bolte the ki shareer ko kasrat chahiye. Toh hum toh budha hai or kasrat kya kare. Mai bhi ab kasrat karta hu. Ye kasrat ka toh usi se maine grahan lia hai ki karni hi hai.

(kaaki then got a cremation advertisement which maharaj ji read out for us.)

besdna ke liye banwaya tha ye or uske peeche humare yaha sant vaani hoti hai. Sant vaani me sab santo yaha aate hai or apni katha sunate hai, bhajan kirtan karte hai bhagwan ka naam lete haiMe : sant vaani kisliye karte hai?Maharaj ji : sant vaani hoti hai raat me. Ye humare kya hove jab swarg vaas hota hai na toh humare ek choti si vidya aati hai, wo vidhi raat ko hoti hai yaha, bada sa Deepak jalaya jata hai. Ye sabhi caste me nahi hoti. Hum toh janoe dhaari hai na (showing a thread that he was wearing that all brahmans wear) toh isiliye karna padta hai. Uska uddesh kya hai?,aatma ko shanti. Aur kuch nahi. Humare bade bade sant aate hai yaha, aur wo sab karte hai.Aditya : aapke pitaji bhi pandit the kisi mandir me?Maharaj ji : ye humara vatan hai, sau (100) kilometer durr. Hum kal jaake ae waha, shadi meAditya : aap waha shadi karwake aaye hai kal?Maharaj ji : nahi wo toh humare relative the. Ye toh hum dusri caste me hum jaate hai. Hum shadi karwate haiAditya : apni caste me aap nahi karwate?Maharaj ji : apni caste me toh dusre aate hai. Ye shadi toh humare relative ki thi, relative ki me hum nahi baithte

(kaaki then called me inside the kitchen and showed me three photographs that were hanging on the wall. These potographs were held quite high. The left one was of a young guy, centre one was maharaj jis fathers and third one was of a kids. first two had garlands on it. She told me that the left one is her younger son who met with an accident and died and the right corner was her grand son and then she started crying. It was kind of a shoch for me to know that. I somehow tried to console her. I asked her about her daughter-in-law, that where was she. She told me that she married her to another guy, she was just 20 years old. This thing made me feel proud of them as I have seen that people are still orthodox when it comes to widow re-marriage, not only in villages but in cities also. After few minutes we both went outside where maharaj ji was working.)Maid : mujhe bhi sikha do maharaj jiMaharaj ji : seekhlo. Kaam aegaMaid : kab? Paanch saal ho gaye aapne sikhaya nahiMaharaj ji : chaar saal se aaj bole tumMaid : paanch saal ho gaye chaar saal nahiAditya : aapne maharaj ji se bahut deri kardi puchne me

(I saw kaaka ji coming from behind. We met him the other day)

Me : kaaka ji Namaste! Kaise ho?Kaaka : bahut badiyaMaharaj ji : tumne chai pi?Kaaka : haan pi li

(maharaj ji was explaining further work that he was doing in making of the mukhut. Then maharj ji and kaaka ji were talking to eachother in gujarati. It took him sometime to find the matching lace to sew)

Aditya : maharaj ji aapke bachpan ke dost aate hai aapse milne yaha?Maharaj ji :bachpan ke? Haan hai na. humari jo bahut ache the na wo toh chale gaye bhagwan ke ghar (laughs) humare teen dost the, bahut ache ( it seemed that he was trying to recollect fun memories with his friends). Do chale gaye, ek hai yahaMe : wo kaha rehte hai?Maharaj ji : wo apne vatan me. Jo humare mitr the na wo service karte the, petrol pump me., post toh mujhe yaad nahi. Wo tol maap ka inspector bola jata hai humari gujurati me. Ye humara mitr hai. Wo retire ho gaye hai ab, yaha aaye the, ek saal ho gaye, yaha aaye the humko milne, aaye toh. Aur humare baapu ji jab chale gaye tab aaye the humse milne do saal pehle, tab bhi aaye the.Maharaj ji : dekho humne kal koshish ki thi milne ki, lekin tha hi nahi, Ahmedabad chala gaya tha. Wo bhi acha hai, bahut acha hai ( he had a gentle laugh after that, that somewhere showed he was very fond of him and admires him) humare teen dost the, usme do toh chala gaya. Humara ek dost than a wo smoker tha, toh use cancer ho gaya. Choti si umr me chala gayaAditya : kitni umr thi unkiMaharaj ji : saadh (60) baras. Humne bahut bataya ki chorh do tum. Pehle toh humne bhi pi thi. Dekho kya hota hai humara dost hota hai na toh usme kuch bura area hai toh hum me bhi aa jati hai. Toh humare me aa gayi thi lekin humare pitaji ne hume daanta, meri choti umr thi, or punishment bhi di thi. Uske darr se maine chorh dia. Aur dekho maine band kar dia toh mera mitr naraz ho gaya mere se. bola tum aadmi hi nahi, aadmi hota hai wo esa hota hai (showing his muscles) (laughs). Tum toh aurat jaisa hai, esa bolte theAditya : kyun bolte the?Maharaj ji : kyunki mai nahi peeta tha isliyeMe: toh aapko kabhi bura ni laga is baat seMaharaj ji : maine bola na ki mai jaisa lagta hu waisa acha hu lekin mai tumko bolta hu tum chorh do, nahi chorha usne aur marr gaye. Dekho uski aurat hai, uski aurat ka paanch che (5-6) din pehle phone aya tha uska, uske ek ladke hai or ladke ke ek ladka hai. Uska parivar hai lekin uska toh dawai me paisa sab kharch ho gaya, acha nahi hua, cancer tha na isliye. Jitna kamaya wo sab dawai me lag gaya, bahut galat hua. Par kya kare ye rog hi esa tha.

( by then maharaj ji finished making the mukhut and was very happy to show the newly made mukhut to us. Later he was telling about his routine. Very enthusiastically he even showed what all exercises he does daily. Every time from him expression I felt that he was always very excited to share things about himself and his work.After few minutes we thought of leaving back for college and told maharaj ji that we will come tomorrow. He asked us to call him before coming. He told he was going to a village near by where he had to deliver the order. He invited us also there. So we decided to go there with him.)

Aditya : maharaj ji ek photo toh khichwa lo kaaki ke sathMaharaj ji : photo?Aditya : haan, kaaki ke sathMaharaj ji : ruko mai apni dress pehan ke aata hu(we all laughed. After few seconds he came back wearing a beige colored crisp looking kurta and a stole that he always takes on his shoulder.)Maharaj ji : ye kya hai, ye humara licence hai. Ye pehan ke mai kahi jaata hu na toh mujhe rokte nahi hai (laughs)Kaaki : haan ye maharaj ka licence hai

(I think whenever he goes somewhere out he dresses up in such manner. White dhoti, kurta, stole and leather shoes. After some time then 4 of us left for that village. It took us around 10-15 minutes to reach there. It was a big house. Maharaj ji had made dresses for their mandir. There were few women standing and chatting outside the gate and when we arrived one of those ladies, she must be the active member of the family, welcomed Maharaj ji and Kaaki and three of us followed him. They must be wondering who Aditya and I were, it was visible on their faces, as they had never seen us with them. That lady asked Kaaki if we were their relatives. We went inside with them. Maharaj ji handed over all these dresses to them which he had packed in a polythene. He was roaming around and seeing their mandir, his hand held behind and straight back and head held high.

All of the women sat down and offered a chair to maharaj ji. So with them even aditya and I sat down but one of those two ladies offered a chair for him to sit on. I noticed that they didnt mind if I was sitting down. This kind of difference between a male and a female I didnt see at maharaj jis place. I feel maharaj ji doesnt think in this way. It seemed he talked to both of us with equal interest.

After few minutes a girl came out from the kitchen holding kettle in one hand and saucers in another. They also served the tea in the same way as kaaki did. I think everybody drinks tea like this only there or maybe its a special crockery set which they use when some guests come. Maharaj ji told that kaakis village is also nearby and he has to go there and invited us also. So after few mintues we left from this place.We reached kaakis place in 5 minutes, so it was actually very nearby. He introduced us to everyone. We didnt stay there for too long as we had to head back to college also. So we said Namaste to everyone and left from there while maharaj ji and kaaki stayed there only.)

Transcript 327th January 2015

Aditya and I went to Maharaj jis place after a break of 5 days. We couldnt go during these days because of some work issues and even Maharaj ji was out of town. The earlier day we had planned to visit them but when we called up Maharaj ji to ask what time should we come he told us that he had to go to somewhere which was 200 km away from his place. Aditya had plans of staying there only with them.

While on our way to Maharaj jis place we had discussed that well try to know something about his childhood. Where did he spend his childhood days and every possible things about it.

When we entered their house we couldnt find anyone there. Somebody was lying on a folding in the verandah but we couldnt see who that person was as he/she was covered with a shawl from head to toe. Maharaj jis working place was nicely maintained with not even a single piece of cloth around it and also his sewing machine was covered with a white cloth. After a minute or so, that person got up, that was Kaaki. I felt as if we came at a very wrong time. Maybe that was their resting time. But I remember Maharaj ji told us that he gets back to work at 2, but this day I didnt see that happening. When kaaki got up we sat with her. We asked her about Maharaj ji and from her we got to know that he was taking rest. Then we chatted with her for some time. She was telling us that Maharaj jis Maasa (uncle) who was 100 years old had expired so they went there the previous day.

Kaaki went outside, I could hear some vegetable vendors voice. As soon as I saw her going from my left side, from my right side I saw a girl coming out from the kitchen. She was wearing a salwar kameez. I had not seen her earlier. I thought maybe she was her daughter-in-law. Kaaki told me last time that she might come to visit them in some days, but since her attire was completely different from Kaaki and also from other hindu gujarati ladies in the village, so I couldnt relate her to this family. I was quite suspicious to know about that girl. After some time Maharaj ji came out from a room near the mandir entrance. The stole that he keeps on his shoulder, this day he was wearing it like a scarf over his head. Since these days it was quite cold so maybe thats why he was wearing it like this. We said Namaste to him.

Aditya : kaise ho Maharaj ji?

( he probably didnt hear him as he didnt reply anything. He has hearing problem and was also quite far from where we were sitting, so it adds to him not able to hear what Aditya had said. After some time he came and sat where we were sitting.)

Maharaj ji : do din se toh bahut thandi hai.Me : haan kaafi thand ho gayiMaharaj ji : kal tumhara, parso aya tha tumhara phone?Aditya : parso raat ko kia tha.Maharaj ji : ye kya hai ki hum gaye the ratanpur. Do sau (200) km durr haiMe : rajasthan border pe hai na?Maharaj ji : haan border pe. Waha humara maasa rehte haiAditya : haan kaaki ne bataya ki unka dehaant ho gaya Maharaj ji : wo bhagwan ke ghar chala gaya, isliye mai gaya tha, hum sab gaye the waha, baithne ke liye. Jab aya na tab toh aarti ka time ho gaya tha, sham ho gayi thi, bahut durr hai

( I saw kaaki coming from outside, holding something in her pallu. Those were lemons and Ber which she offered to us. All four of us were sitting there and were having it. To me it seemed like one happy family only who were sitting together in the verandah, chit chatting and enjoying together. Later even that girl came and sat next to kaaki. I still didnt have any idea about who she was.)

Kaaki : ye ladki bahut ber khaati haiMaharaj ji : ye baroda wali ladki hai, baroda me rehti hai. (pause)

(They all started talking in Gujarati then. I think like Kaaki even this girl didnt know Hindi as she wasnt responding to what we were talking and was just smile. She had the same kind of blank smile which even I carry when I dont understand what exactly is happening.)

Maharaj ji : ye ladki hai humari, padosi ki hai lekin humne rakhi hai ladki. Humare ladki hai hi nahi, wo toh chali gayi, 23/12 ko shadi ho gayi wo chali gayi, Muslim hai fir bhi maine ladki rakhi hai (laughs)

( the moment he said this, I felt that yes this is something interesting now. He specially mentioned that she was a Muslim and still he allows her to come to his place.)

Aditya : ek aur bhi toh aunty thi jo us din thi, wo ni ayi aaj jo us din saaf safai kar rahi thiMaharaj ji : haan, iski mumy hai wo. Wo sab yaha kaam karti thi. Jab mai yaha aya tabse yaha kaam karti hai humare paas, yaha rehti hai mere paas.Me : aaj nahi ayi wo auntyMaharaj ji : wo toh so gayi khana khaake.Me : wo kaha rehti haiGirl : peeche. Maharaj ji : wo toh yaha peeche hi rehti hai. Peeche darwaza hai na. Wo baarah baje aati hai, JB me kaam hai uska, wo kaam karke yaha aati hai baarah baje, baarah bajne k baad wo yaha rasaoi paani banati hai. Ab usne khaya, iski mumy ne, khaya or so gayi. Mera kaaryakaram esa hai, gyarah tees baje mai kha leta hu or so jata hu. Do baje khade ho jata hu or peeche jata hu ( they all laughed at it) wo log sone ka time hai uska jab mai jata hu. Dekho kal nahi tha mai, uska phone aya humko, acha nahi lagta tum aa jao. Dekho mai toh pareshan kar rha hu tumko, tum kyu call kar rahe ho (laughs) mai toh pareshan kar rha tha. Do baje mai peeche ko jata hu unke sone ke samay me (laughs) pareshani ati hai usko kya kare, wo bol toh nahi sakte tum chale jao, fir mai baithta hu. Uske daddy hai na wo nahi sote, wo toh baithe haiAditya : thak jaate honge na subah se kaam karte hue isliye so jaati hongiMaharaj ji : uske papa ki kya koi naukriyan hai hi nahi, rikshaw chalata hai. Wo rikshaw chalata hai, uske ladke hai tumhare jaisa, wo bhi rikshaw ka kaam seekhte hai, padhte hai. Aur uski mumy 5-6 bungle ka kaam rakha hai, waha karti hai bartan paani, saaf safai. Isme usi ka chalta hai

( I wanted to know if she does kitchen work at his place also, which I had not expected as kitchen work is assumed to be very pure and he is a Brahmin and also because he emphasized on the word Muslim.)

Me : wo aunty banati hai khana yahaKaaki : naaMaharaj ji : (referring to Kaaki) khana toh ye khana banati hai, kapde karti hai, sab ye karti haiMe : acha, wo aunty bas saaf safai karti haiMaharaj ji : haan wo toh saaf safai karti hai. Wo toh saaf karti hai kachra, aur kuch nahi. Ye (kaaki) hai nahi toh sab karegi par khana nai. Wo muslim hai na, mai paani bhi nahi peeta uske ghar fir bhi humara sambandh esa hai dekho(kaaki laughs). Uski shadi thi uske pappa ne kaha mereko bahut dukh hai ki tum humare ghar ka paani bhi nahi peeteMe : par kyu nahi peete, koi wajahMaharaj ji : wajah toh ( after a pause) ye muslim hai. Isiliye. Ye sanstha hai, hum esi jagah pe baithe hue hai isliye humko esa karna samaaj ke viruddh hai. Dekho samaaj wale hai na wo humare liye charcha karte hai. Aisa karta hai waisa karta hai. Aisa charcha ki uski koi gujaaish hi nahiMe : par aap inke ghar aate jaate hai is baat ki bhi charcha karte hongeMaharaj ji : nahi nahi esa koi nahi. Dekho hum inke ghar kuch khaate peete bhi nahi fir bhi humara sambandh acha hai (laughs)Me : ye aapke ghar khaate peete hai?Maharaj ji : ye toh sab khaati hai. Isko bhuk lagi hai toh bolegi (laughs) humare paas khati hai, hum baith jaate hai na khaane ke liye toh baith jaati hai humare saath, kha leti hai. Humne maana hai humari ladki hai, fir bhi ye samaaj ke darr se esa karna padta hai. Kyun? Kyunki humara sthaan esa hai. Dekho mai maharaj toh hu lekin yaha guru gaadhi hai. Samajh paaye?Me : kya hota hai gaadhi?Maharaj ji : humari baithak uchi hai. Yaha sabka koi chota mota function ho, kahi sabhaye hoti hai, humara swagat kia jata hai, hume baithaya jata hai uche aasan pe, hume phool maala daal deta hai, humara pujan hota hai, esi baat hai. Humare aasan pe koi nahi baithega

( this was quite strange to me that out of fear of what the society would say about him, he doesnt even drink water at their house but continues to have relation with the family. He also goes to their place from the backyard, there is a door there. Now I dont know if people know about this or not. He considers himself at supreme level, he used the word ucha aasan and that nobody sits on his place. )

Me : acha aapka ucha aasan hota haiMaharaj ji : haan ucha, alag hota haiAditya : haan harr jagah maharaj ko upar hi baithate haiMaharaj ji : humare aasan pe koi nahi baithega, esi guru gaadhi hai wo isiliye sab rakhna padta hai. Samjhe? Wo bhi chalta hai, ye bhi chalta hai, sab chalta hai. Koi humare jeevan ka siddhant hota hai na, wo siddhant ke hum viruddh nahi jaate. Siddhant siddhant hi rahgea. Siddhant me koi kami nahi aegi, kami aegi toh wo siddhant nahi rahega. Me : koi badlaav bhi nahi hotaMaharaj ji : haan kuch nahi hota isme, esa hi humara jeevan hai. Jo siddhant hai humara hum uske galat nahi kar sakte. Koi baat chupaane se hum apraadh kar rahe hai. Dekho jeevan khulla hai, apna jeevan khulla rakhna chahiye. Jab parda rakhoge na, jeevan ke aage parda rakhoge na toh duniya dokiya karegi ( he showed this by imitating with his hand that how people try to see through a curtain). Kaise jeete hai, kaise khaate hai, kaise sote hai ye sab khula, isme koi parda nahi. Parda isi baat ka hota hai humare dhyan ka, humare yog ka, humare ishvar smaran ka, iska parda hota hai, isko parde me rakhna chahiyeMe : par esa kyuMaharaj ji : dekho mai bhakti karta hu, toh ye bhakti mai kyu tumko batau or batane se faida kya, kya faidaMe : taaki hum bhi seekh jaaye

( I couldnt understand that at one point hes saying that we should not hide anything and on the other hand hes saying that we should not reveal how we meditate, how we pray. He was so depressed with the fact that whenever he went to tailors to learn and they never taught him and tried to hide their work. I feel even he was doing the same then. He was talking if he would teach it then how would dat benefit him. So I wanted to know more about it that why he feels so and that why these things shouldnt be shown.)

Maharaj ji : nahi ye bhakti hum karte hai, koi bhi yog kia, bhagwan ka smaran kia, uska saath lakshay le lia toh wo sab parde me rehna chahiye. Wo dikhawa nahi hai. Dikhaawe se apna tap bhang ho jata hai. Dekho aj bhi mai tumko salah deta hu ki thoda karo, acha karo or bahut sacha karo. Karo toh bahut thoda karo, kum karo, time nahi hai toh kum karo lekin acha karo. Acha karo toh sachcha karo.Me : dikhaawe ke liye mat karoMaharaj ji : dikhawa nahi. Dikhawa toh dekho aadhambar hota hai. Dikhaawe se badi badi maala pehan li, bada tilak laga lia, takla kar dia, isse koi faida nahi hai, wo toh dikhawa hai. Ye dikhawa hota hai na matlab andar se kuch nahi hota, mere hisaab se esa hota hai

(I felt what he was talking earlier and what he was talking later, somehow didnt relate to eachother for me.)

Aditya : aapne bahut sahi kaha hai yeMaharaj ji : mere hisaab se toh wo badi badi daadhi wala hai, bahut bade bade yaha (pointing towards forehead) design kia hai, haina dekho itna itna tilak lagaate hai or AC gaadiyo me ghumte hai, kya hai ye sab. Hum to sansaar hai ye lekin sanyaas ki jab baat aati hai na toh sanyaas ka toh dharm hi esa hai. Sanyaas wale hai na wo toh apne liye kuch bhi apne paas nahi rakhta. Wahi sanyaasi hai. Apne paas kuch nahi rakhna uska matlab hi sanyaas hai. Dekho jain me digambhar hote hai.Aditya : hmm shwetambar or digaambarMaharaj ji : haan toh kya hota hai ki uske kapdo ki bhi zarurat nahi hai. Wo soch hi nahi sakte. Wo gents or ladies me soch hi nahi sakte. Sochna bhi galat. Wo toh kya hai aatma ko. Dekho ye toh humari aankho se hum pehchante hai ki ye ladki hai, ye ladka hai lekin usme toh ladka ladki ka koi bhed hi nahi hai. Jaise tum chote the, do saal ke tab tumko maaloom bhi nahi padta ye ladka hai ye ladki hai. Esa uska mind hota hai, do saal ke bache jaisa, bhed hi nahi. Pehle ke toh samay me kya tha, humare samay me dekho na toh humara aath nau baras hua na, hum kapda bhi nahi pehante theAditya : bachpan me?Maharaj ji : haan. Kapda pehante the lekin kapda hai na, esi samay ki baat jaisi baat nahi thi. Humare kya hota hai ye chote chote gaon, humara vatan toh kya hai gaon bahut chota hai Aditya : kaha hai aapka gaonMaharaj ji : wo toh bahut durr haiMe : Gujarat me hi hai?Maharaj ji : haan Gujarat meMe : kis taraf padta haiMaharaj ji : jaha hum kal gaye the na waha padta haiAditya : ratanpur ke paas?Maharaj ji : haan or yaha chota sa gaon hai, gaon ke paas ek taalaab hai. Taalaab samajhte ho? ( looking at us)Aditya : haan Maharaj ji :jab baarish aati hai na, baarish ke din tab wo taalaab paani se pura bhar jata hai or ye taalaab ke paani dusri baarish ke din aate hai na tab tak chalta haiAditya : (surprised) itna paani hai udharMaharaj ji : haan. Usme kya karte the, ye toh ab badi machinery aa gayi, pehle toh waha sab khedu the, bail (cows) rakhte the hull chalane ke liye, kheton (farms) me kaam karne ke liye. Toh ek ek ghar do do bail tha or bhense thi doodh khaane ke liye. Jab doodh, maakhan, dahi esa khaate toh kaam karte, Shakti aati toh esa karte the

( this immediately reminded me of what my father always tells me. I felt that even the state that I live in (i.e Haryana) and Gujarat have so distinct culture but there are some things about both the cities and the people staying there that are common, or maybe there are some common beliefs everywhere . )

toh kehne ka matlab ki ek ek ghar paanch paanch che che ye pashu dhan hote hai, HOTA THA. Or in sabko paani pilaane ke liye taalab me le jaate, subah or sham. Aur ye sab naariyaan hai na ye apne kapde ko lekar waha uski safai karti. Aur sabhi gaon ke log hai isme snaan karte. Hum bhi karte the. Humne shaadi ki na toh ye(kaaki) bhi ayi thi. Ye bhi humara kapda leke waha dhulai karti thi dekho. Toh mai kya baat bata raha tha? Mai tab chati kaksha (6th grade) me tha, saatvi kaksha me. Ab hum snaan karte the na, kaise karte the? Digambar swarup me karte the. Dekho ladka ladki sabMe : ek jagah?Maharaj ji : haan ladka ladki sab milkar snaan karte the. Aur kuch nahiMe : toh koi kuch kehta nahi thaMaharaj ji : nahi koi hai hi nahi, esa koi kuch soch bhi nahi sakta, ye zamaana hi aisa tha. Ab toh ye zamaana itna badal gaya (laughs) itna aage bhad gaya hai ab toh do baras ke ladke ko bhi chaddi pehnai jaati hai. Aur ye samay me sab apna parivar sab waha jaata tha taalaab me. Aur yaha paani ka upyog karte the aur paas me kuan tha, kua ke paani se kheech kar, sirr par rakhkar laati thi, wo bhi isne kia hai.Me : aap bhi karte the?Maharaj ji : haan.Me : aap dono milke karte theMaharaj ji : nahi mai paani sirr pe nahi rakh sakta, mai esa nahi karta tha wo kar sakti thi. Lekin jab garmi ke din aate hai na toh paani kum ho jata hai, kum hone ki wajah se paani nahi milta toh mai kya karte the, hum kuan me andar utarte the. Dekho itna (showing from his hands) khadda hota hai neeche me, itne khadde me itna paani bhara, isme se thoda thoda paani ata hai. Kyun? Kyunki ye sab gaon wale le jaate isliye paani bachta hi nahi toh hum raat ko jaate. Mai kuan me utartaAditya: toh aapko darr ni lagta tha raat ko kuan meMaharaj ji : nahi mai rassi se kuan me utar jataMe : aap dono saath jaate the?Maharaj ji : haan ye thi, humara padosi aata. Wo do teen milke hum jaate the saath meMe : kya naam hai aapke gaon kaKaaki : narsipuraMaharaj ji : narsipura uska naam aur waha paani ese katori se leke isme baalti me daalte. Dekho itna paani maila, clean nahi, maila paani bahut aur ghar pe aake usko hum ek din pade rehne dete tab uska sab maati neeche aa jata hai, fir bhi upar upar se paani leta hai. Wo paani hum ek kapde me daal kar uski matki bharta hai wo paani peete the. Kathinaaiyan thi, pehle toh bahut kathinaiyan thi, fir bhi anand tha. Dekho aur aaj kya hai aaj toh esa zamaana hai tumhare paas sab hai, tumhari safety se, tumhare sab khaane peene, tumhare mauz shauk karne, sabka saadhan hai fir bhi wahi anand aaj nahi hai. Aisa anand tha (laughs) dekho fir bhi kathinaiyo me bahut anand tha. Aaj nahi hai. Wo din hum yaad kare, wo din or aaj ka din me kai farak hai. Aisi baat suni hai tumne? Nahi suni, kaise sunoge, tumhari toh choti choti umar haiAditya : mere papa ne sunai haiMe : mere papa bhi gaon me rehte the na toh wo batate the kabhi kabhi. Papa ya dadaMaharaj ji : rehte the?Aditya : haanMaharaj ji : haan toh uske paas suno, wo bataega esi baat. Pehle toh bahut kathinaiyaan thi, kathinaiyan toh thi bahut, bahut anand tha. Jeene ka bahut anand tha. Aur ye parivar me jo bhi karta tha isme kathinaiyan bahut thi. Humare paas toh dekho wo bimar ho gayi thi (refering to kaaki) humare paas paise nahi the, doctor ke paas kaise le jae? Dekho fir bhi humne kya kia, thoda paisa humare paas che rupiye the aur leke humare yaha biram gaon hai na, waha doctor tha, gaon me toh koi doctor ata jata hi nahi. Kyun? Gaon me koi bimaariyan jaldi aati hi nahi. Doctor gaon me aega? Kab aega bimaariyan hoti toh lekin bimariyan hi nahi, sabka body acha toh doctor ke aane ki koi gunjaish hi nahi. Isliye dawa khana tha na, bahut durr the. Kai shehro me the, city me, gaon me toh koi dawa khana tha hi nahi.Aditya : kya hua tha kaaki koMaharaj ji : hum dekho bhains rakhte the or uska chaara paani lene khet me jaate the. Ek din wo chaara apne sirr pe rakhke wo chali aati thi or do bhainsa ne kya kia, hindu or pakistan kar dia (everybody laughs) iske beech me aa gayi. Do bhainsa ladne lagi or wo beech me aa gayi or sau kilo wajan. Dekho kitna tha. Hum dono ke paas sau kilo thi. Par mai toh sirr pe rakh nahi sakta thaMe : kyun?

( I thought Maharaj ji had some problem so because of that he couldnt keep it over his head. But when I asked him earlier also he didnt say anything specific that why he couldnt keep it and this time also. In my village I had never seen men putting it on their head and its always men who does that so somewhere I felt that maybe even he felt the same. But since he was telling about that men and women used to take bath together and also during our last visit he told us about his smoking incident also so this made me think that what I was thinking might be wrong also.)

Maharaj ji : pehle se maine sirr par rakha nahi isliye. Mai toh bicycle rakhta tha, bicycle ke peeche rassi lekar usko barabar tight baandh dia thaMe : apko sirr pe rakhna nahi ata tha(kaaki smiled)Maharaj ji : (very firmly said) nahi mujhe nahi ata tha. Humare sath ladke bahut the, sab sirr pe rakhte hai naari ke jaise, aurat ke jaise, hum nahi rakh sakte, pehle se hi nahi rakha kabhi(laughs)

(this statement of his kind of gave me a hint that what I was thinking was right upto some extend. He related that work as ladiess work.)

Aditya : aap seekha bhi nahi firMaharaj ji : usne rakhaMe : aapne kabhi seekha nahi firMaharaj ji :kya?Me : ki kaise rakhte haiMaharaj ji : nahi. Wo kya hota hai, mai tumko sach batau mujhko sharam lagti thi

(kaaki laughed)

Me : ese kyun?Maharaj ji : hum ladke hai, hum sirr par kyun rakhe, esi baat thi. Hum kyun sirr par rakhe, hum aurat nahi hai. Aisa galat soch isme tha (laughs)Aditya : acha ye aapko pata chal gaya ki aap galat sochte theMaharaj ji : (laughs) aisa galat soch tha isiliye maine usko rakha nahi. Mai cycle rakhta tha, cycle ke stand pe ek bahut bada ye chaara rassi se tight kar liya or mai aage aage chale jata tha wo peeche aa rahi thi leke. Toh isme humara dono ka wajan toh samaantar hi tha, pachaas kilo iske paas, pachaas kilo humare paas. Aur mai chalke aa raha tha aur ye bhainsa aayi usne ek bada khadda tha, aur usme girr gayi ye sab, aur yaha karod razu me manka aata hai (he was talking about spinal cord) dusra manka.Aditya : manka kya hota hai?haddi?Maharaj ji : haan ye haddi aati hai na ye haddi tut gayi. Dekho uski tut gayi hai isliye wo thoda sujan rehta haiAditya : abhi bhi rehta hai auntyMaharaj ji :haan abhi bhi rehta hai. Bahut dawa khilai

(Maharaj ji was then telling the whole story of how much he had to struggle to get kaaki operated and buy medicines for her. He had only rs6 in his pocket at that time out of which he had to pay rs5 for the doctor fee and left with just 1 rupee in hand. And with this money he had to buy medicines also which costed rs90. Later he borrowed money from people of his village and got rs150 like this. He was telling that during his young age he was very fond of singing and was praising his singing abilities also. During navratris he used to using garba songs. From his first katha that he did in thol village, he earned good amount of money and was appreciated a lot too. He inherited this quality from his father and learnt by seeing and hearing him. This made him feel that how destiny takes a turn.He was telling that earlier even he used to wear kurta pyjama like Kaaka ji does. And since last 30 years he has been wearing dhoti because of his occupation and he cannot enter into a mandir without this.)

Maharaj ji : mandir me esa enter nahi ho sakta. Ye pavitrata ka pratik hai isiliye pehna jata hai aur wo maanya hai. Bhagwan ke paas jana hai toh dhang se jana hai, apna dhang se. dekho extraordinary insaan ko waha manai hai, andar kisi ko aane nahi detaMe : par bhagwan ke liye toh sab ek samaan nahi hote?Maharaj ji : samaan toh hai sab lekin kya hota hai ki uske niyam ka paalan karte hai, wo uski puja ke layak hai, ye puja karne ke layak ka uska certificate hai. Tum nahi ja sakte waha. Kyun nahi ja sakte?Me : (pointing towards aditya) agar ye dhoti pehne toh ja sakta hai?Maharaj ji : (immediately replied) haan toh ja sakte haiMe : aur mai dhoti pehnu toh?Maharaj ji : haan toh ja sakti ho (kaaki then laughed). Maine bataya na uske paas dhang se jana hota hai. Uska niyam hai. Dekho ye mandir nahi, koi bhi mandir ho chahe. Dekho ab tumko dekhne ke liye agar koi aate hai tumhare sasur wale, koi bhi, sasur wale bhi nahi, koi bhi aaye toh ye ladki ko dekhega. Tumko maaloom hai ki tumko dekhne aye hai toh tum kya karti, mujhko bataoMe : dhang se banke jaenge. Ache se banke jaenge unke saamneMaharaj ji : haan (the way he said it, it was kind of like proving his point right). Kyun? kyunki dekhne aate hai. Uski uchai tumhare se zada hai. Aane wala hai na uski uchai tumhare se zada hai. Tumko dekhne ate hai. Aur mai ye uchai ki baat kar raha hu na, uski (means God) uchai itni hai ki humko maaloom hi nahi (laughs). Toh ek insaan ke liye hum dhang se ban jaate hai toh ishvar ke liye kyun nahi. Aur wo toh sabka baap hai ( we all laughed at it) toh humare parivar wale or humare chote chote bache, bazar me jaake bheek maange toh kya humko acha lagega? Nahi lagega. Toh esi baat hai, kai log ate hai na toh uske paas bikhari jaisi hi haalat me aate hai. Humko kuch do (at a little higher pitch) humko kuch do, itna do toh mai tumko itna du. Ye kya baat hai, kya jugaad khila hai. Aur dusri baat ye apna baap hai toh baap kya dekh rahe hai, mere ladke bikhari. Esa smart banke uske paas khameer banke jana padega. Dekho apni chaati nikaalke jana padega, usko acha lagega. Mere ladke ladki hai lekin smart hai, bikhari nahi hai, kangaal nahi hai. Wo hi acha lagega. Aur maangne ki kya zarurat, usko sab maloom hai. Uske paas kya maangoge, tumhari soch kitni hai, paisa maangoge, ladka maangoge, shadi ke liye achi ladki maangoge, acha bungla maangoge, aur kya maangoge.Aditya : maarg darshan?Maharaj ji : ye sab galat hai. Apna aatma ke liye jo bhi maanga jata hai wo hi acha hai. Sona sona nahi hai, paisa paisa nahi hai, bungla bungla hi nahi hai, kuch hai hi nahi dekho. Wo sab hai apne jeevan dhang se jeene ke liye. Wo sab zarurat toh hai lekin apna jeevan jeene ke liye, dhang se jiye bas itni zarurat hai or kuch nahiMe : haan ye sab toh yahi reh jaegaMaharaj ji : aur ye sab jo apeksha hoti hai na, wo sab galat hai. Jitni apeksha karoge utni apekshaye bhad jaati hai. Par aatma ke liye hum kuch nahi karte aur humara jeevan pura ho jata hai.Aditya : haan maharaj ji ye toh aap sahi bol rahe hai. Toh aatma ke liye kya karna chahiye maharaj jiMaharaj ji : ye sab toh hai bhagwan ki dean hai, sab kuch diya hai dhang se jiyo, anand karna wo hi humara kartavya hai lekin ek hi anand jeevan me, akela anand wo galat haiAditya : karm bhi karna chahiye

(this whole discussion was very philosophical. It made me think that how and why are running behind things and forgetting to and live moments.)

Maharaj ji : anand ke peeche padne se gaer faida hota hai. Anand hota hai dekho kathinaiyaan aati hai na toh ye kathinaiyaan jab durr ho jaati hai toh anand bhad jata hai. Toh kathinaiyaan hoti hai to hi anand hota hai.

(later he was talking about that by the grace of god his life came on track after so much of struggle and how grateful he is to god.)

(after some time even that aunty came and sat next to Kaaki. Later she started her cleaning work and kaaki got busy in some other work. So maharaj ji, aditya, kaaka who came long time back and I went and sat towards the main entrance. Later kaaki also started doing brooming while that aunty was washing utensils. Kaaka seems to have really good relation with the family. The way he used to be with them it didnt look like that he was some outsider and looked like a part of the family only. He would directly go inside the kitchen and get tea for himself, he already knew that Kaaki would have made it for him. )

Maharaj ji : aaj kal apne dil se koi kaam nahi karta hai. Ye darwaza banaya hai, ye sab design rakhi hai, aisa jo sochte hai hai, aisa sochkar jo banate hai na nahi banta, lekin usne uska dil lagaya hai isme. Jo kaam me dil lagaya jata hai na apna wahi kaam ki chamak hoti hai. Kahi bhi tum bahut aage sochlo toh apna dil se hum kaam karenge na toh uski chamak aegiAditya : sahi bol rahe ho aapMaharaj ji : aur apne dil se kaam nahi karoge aur karne ke khatir karoge uski koi kimat nahi hotiKaaka : usko bolte hai zabardasti kaam karnaMaharaj ji : kimat toh jab hoti hai jab apne dil se kaam karo. Koi bhi, padhai karo, jo chahe apne dil se kaam karlo toh uski chamak aa jati hai or wahi achi baat hoti haiAditya : apka bhi toh jaise apne bhagwan ke kapde banana shuru kia apne dil se banana shuru kiaMaharaj ji : haan (tone had a confirmation in it)Aditya : toh wo chamak dikhti haiMaharaj ji : paisa zarur leta hu lekin, ye toh baat sahi hai, wo toh humara jeevan virva karne ke liye, lekin wahi lakshay humara nahi. Maine bataya tha na ki ek bar maine koi banaya toh dusra jab banata hu na toh aisa sochta hu ki pehle wale se acha kaise banta hai aur kya khaamiyan hai. Pehle me khaami hai toh dusre me khaami kum ho jaati hai, teesre me kum ho jaati hai, fir kum ho jaati hai kum ho jaati hai kum ho jati haiAditya : harr bar aap usko sochte haiMaharaj ji : haan har bar sochte haiAditya : ki aur kaise sundar bana sakte haiMaharaj ji : pehle aisa banaya aisa banaya. Pehle toh mai banata tha na toh wo toh mai faag banata tha. Faag ye sab rajput log pehante hai na aisa banata thaKaaki : haan wo ese banate the andar rui daal keMaharaj ji : toh wo bhi banti hai, abhi bhi banti hai, kai kai mandir wale banate hai or mai bana bhi deta hu.Kaaka : paagdi bolte hai useAditya : pagdi haanMaharaj ji : haan pagdi bolte hai usko ( he was talking quite slowly, as if he was thinking about something)Me : maharaj ji apko aisi kya soch ai ki aapne bhagwan ke liye kapde banane shuru kar diyeMaharaj ji : (after a while, still talking slowly) ye kya tha jab mai chota tha toh humare pitashri, humare ghar pe bhi mandir hai toh waha humare bhagwan ke pakde badalne ka waqt ata tha toh pita ji mujhe bolte tum aisa karo, mujhe sikhate the. Usko pehnao aur fir choti si umar me hi pehnata tha ghar me. Aur pehnate waqt tab hum sochte the ki mere pita ji aisa banate hai toh mai kuch banauAditya : aapke pita ji bhi banate the aise bhagwan ke kapdeMaharaj ji : haan banate the (smiling) par banate the, ye dhanda nahi karte the. Mai toh dhanda karta hu, mai toh 40-45 mandiro ka banata hu aur dhanda karta hu. Dekho wo toh maine mandir ke liye sirf banate the, aur dhanda karte the lekin sirf insan ke kapde banate the. Ghar me machine rakhte the.

( he was talking to Kaaka in gujarati. I think he was talking about the sewing machine that he told us about earlier. The sewing machine that his father used to use, which is hard to find now. And was explaining how that had to be operated)

(He was then telling about that how machines have changed now. Everything can be done from one machine and told us that even he has seen a machine like this but its a Japanese machine. When I asked him where he saw that machine so he told me that he went to a bunglow to perform satnarayan bhagwan katha. So he saw that machine at his bunglow. He said when he saw the machine properly , it was written on it Made in Japan. That guy offered him the machine, but he refused to take it because he doesnt d the kind of work that that machine does and he didnt even know how to use it. He said that the kind of work he wanted to do, that system wasnt there in the machine. He was telling that he has been using the same machine since last 20 years and didnt even had to change its spare parts. But now he needs to take this machine to get it reapired. It works fine but makes some noise. He said he worked a lot on this machine and has been doing this business since the age of 21. He used to make lehengas, pants, shirts, towels everything.)

Maharaj ji : humare pita ji dekho kisi ke ghar gaye kaam karne ke liye, mai toh padhta tha aur jab chutti hoti thi toh humare pitaji humko bulate the. Aur neeche baithke cutting karte aur mai silai karta. Isme se mujhe humare mind me ek khwahish thi ki kuch kare. Padhai ke liye paisa nahi tha. Aur ye gujarati teacher ki naukri toh mil jaati thi but saadh (60) rupiya pagaar thi aur saadh rupiya toh hum machine me hi le lete the ghar pe rehke. Aur saadh rupiya me toh kya karna padta tha ki koi bhi gaon me, pathshala me humko naukri mili toh waha jana padta tha. Aur gaon ke talaati hote hai na,mantriAditya : jo sab khaata likhte haiMaharaj ji : wo usko kya bolte hai? Patwaari. Wo esi mujhe mili thi naukri lekin humare yaha aadiwaasi hai,godara, waha sab aadiwaasi log rehte the or padhai me kuch samajhte hi nahi. Aur usne kya kia th aadiwaasi log ne sab zameen pe border lagake apni kar li thi. Aur yaha survey hota hai zameeno ke baare me. Tumhari baat waha koi samajhte hi nahi aur tum zabardasti karo toh teer kaanta chalate the. Ye darr se humare pita ne naukri me lagne hi nahi dia. Aur hum toh kabhi bahar gaye hi nahi, experience nahi tha bahar jaane ka toh duniya dekhi hi nahi thiMe : ghar me hi raheMaharaj ji : haan ghar me hi ghar me, gaon gaon me, ye gaon ko hum duniya maan rahe the. Mai maan raha tha ki ye world hai. Dekho mendak rehte hai na khadde me, mendak kya janta hai ki ye dariya hai sagar hai samudr hai, esa maante hai, kyun? Usne sagar dekha hi nahi isliye. Jab sagar dekhenge tab usko maaloom hota hai ki wo toh chote khadde hai. Humara esa hua. Humne jab dekha na tab toh bahut der ho gayi. Humne jab duniya dekhi toh bahut der ho gayi, naukri karne ka samay pura ho gaya humara (laughs)Me : toh ye saara kaam aapne apne baapuji ko dekh dekhke seekhaMaharaj ji : haan. Jo kaam mere baapuji karte the wahi kaam maine apna lia.Me : wo bhi isi tarah ke design banate theMaharaj ji : nahi design nahi. Pehle toh design hote hi nahi the.Kaaka : pehle toh koi design the hi nahi, sab saada(simple) thaMe : fir aapne kaise design banana shuru kia yeMaharaj ji : haaannn wahi baat hai. Dekho ek dafa diwali ke din maine pehle toh kya sab gharo me badi badi tasveer lagate the bhagwan ki, kaanch k sheeshe me, aur yaha humari shobha kya thi, makaan mandiro ki shobha tasveere thi par ab nahi hai. Lekin pehle thi. Toh tasveero me kai kai painting tha na isme kapda pehnaya hua tha. Maine socha ki ye sab bhagwan ke kapde bante hai, ye design kapde me lagai jaye toh kaisa lagega. Ese question mere magaj me aya, mind me. Aur maine kya kia maine pehle toh, dekho, raakhi ka din aata hai na, raakhi pehle toh bahut design wala ata thaMe : haan badi badi aati thi pehle tohMaharaj ji : haan aur usme plastic tha, kaagaz tha, abhi toh moti ka hi istamal hota hai. Isme do rakhi humare paas ayi, wo do raakhi ko maine bhagwan ke kapde me chaati pe laga diya or bhagwan ko pehnayaMe: fir aapne dekha ki kaisa lagta haiMaharaj ji : haan. Usko dekhke log khush ho gaye ki bahut acha kia, ye sab bole. Wo buzurg the na humare gaon ke wo sab bole bahut acha tumne banaya hai. Toh itna bola na toh isme humari jigyasa aur bhad gayi. Ye mujhe dhagas ho gayi ki aur zada acha kaisa lagega, ese mai aage bhada. Jo log nahi bolte ki acha nahi hai toh hum kuch bhi nahi hote. Isme response mila humkoMe : logo ne apka kaam sarhayaMaharaj ji : haan, usme se mai aage bhada. Aur bade bade mandiro me gaye, waha kaisa poshak pehnaya jata hai wo sab dekha. Aur ab kya hai ab toh mandiro ka darshan karwate hai TV me, badi badi design dikhate hai. Usme se hum mind lagakeMe : toh aap ek bar dekhte hai fir sochte hai ki kaisa lagegaMaharaj ji : haan, sochte hai ki esa banana haiAditya : ek bar dekhte hi yaad reh jata hai?Maharaj ji : nahi kaagaz pe thoda drama kar leta huMe : fir kaagaz pe drama karke aap usko kaapad pe banate haiMaharaj ji : haan kaapad pe banata hu. Ek mandir me mai gaya tha, usme kai saalo se bhagwan ke kapde ek hi pehne the dusra tha hi nahi, aur ye toh samajhte hi nahi kapde ko. Maine socha ki ye mandir apne seekhne ke liye bahut acha hai. Toh mai ja jake yaha maap leke maine kapda banaya. Us waqt jab mai seekh raha tha. Toh waha toh kya ki humara bigad jaaye toh bhi koi baat nahi, acha ho jaaye toh bhi koi baat nahi ( his face became very cheerful when he said this ) . dheeme dheeme ye sab humare magaj me maap aa gaya, esa karne se esa hota hai, ye maap aa gaya. Abhi bhi mai student hi huMe : abhi bhi seekh rahe hoMaharaj ji : haan abhi bhi mai seekhta hu. Ye toh maine bataya na ki meri soch hi esi thi ki ye dress kaise pehnaya jata hai, kaise banta hai.Me : toh aap kisi bhi mandir me jaate hoge toh aapka dhyan sabse pehle yahi jaata hogaMaharaj ji : haan bilkul sahi baat (with a big smile on his face, saying yes you got it right). Kyunki interest hai na (laughs) thoda banate hai lekin dil se banate hai. Aur chota mota guzara humara chal raha hai. Isse sab chala. Humara sab guzara isme chala aur zindagi bhi puri ho gayi isme. Dekho ek toh kaam bhagwan ka hai or paet humara hai, toh ye mil jaata hai. Aur hum mandir ke pujari hai. Hum jo kar rahe hai uske sath iska milan hota hai isliye humari jumm gayi (claps once after saying this and laughs)

(Then he was telling about the orders he had worked on and was telling the story about the order that he took from that mumbai guy that he told us in out last meeting. )

( After sometime I left from there for college with another classmate of mine who was also ther in pethapur at that time, but Aditya had plans of staying there only and even Maharaj ji and Kaaki were happy about it.)

Transcript 418th February 2015

Finally after a long break we could meet Maharaj ji. There was a long break in our visit because his relative who met with an accident was in coma and was in a critical state. We tried visitng once but at that time he looked so tensed and worried about the whole situation and we didnt find it appropriate to visit him in this situation.

When we reached there, we saw that the gate was open so we assumed that Maharaj ji might have gone somewhere on his activa, as he opens that part of the gate when he goes on his active. We entered inside but couldnt find anyone there. I noticed that his active was also not there so our assumption was right. His sewing machine was covered with a white cloth. There was a lot of fabric around it. I think that was his new work for some mandir. It looked different from what we saw earlier. Aditya went inside the kitchen to see if Kaaki was there. He called me inside too and we saw the backdoor that they use to visit that ladys house. We went to the other side from that door and saw that Kaaki was sitting there with that lady. There was a drastic change in the surroundings. It made me feel as if I came to a very different place. The financial and social difference was clearly visible from the kind of environment that was there. That lady had a small room and a small verandah where both of them were sitting. Actually it wasnt exactly a verandah but an open space in front of their single room house. An autorikshaw was also parked there. I remember Maharaj ji telling us that that ladys husband drives an autorikshaw. They had filled water in a big metal bowl kind of thing from which water was spilling out. Aditya asked her why it was such then she said that there is no tap and they fill water in one container and the rest just gets wasted. In the adjacent plot, goats were there and there was a little foul smell also. We asked Kaaki about Maharaj ji. She told us that he had gone to a hospital to get his blood pressure checked. After a while Kaaki went inside her house and later even we did. We sat near Maharaj jis working place.

After 5 minutes Maharaj ji came on his activa. Even Kaaka was with him. To me both of them looked quite weak. Maharaj ji didnt have that usual smile on his face. He has been hopping between Ahmedabad and Pethapur on regular basis which eventually affected his health and was clearly visible. And even because of tension that he must be having. He then came and sat next to us. We were asking him how he was and his relative. He was telling that he and Kaaka had gone to see a doctor to get his blood pressure checked. It was quite high so doctor suggested him some medicine. He was telling that he had been running in between Ahmedabad and Pethapur so much that he couldnt take care of his health as he his whole food routine got disturbed which lead to bad health. He didnt look like usual him. One couldt easily make out by looking at him that he had been going though a tough phase in life.

Later he went and sat on his chair and started working.

Me : pehle wala saara kaam ho gaya?Kaaka : wo toh le bhi gaya kal. Wo shivratri ka than na bhagwan ka toh kal le gaya.Maharaj ji : ab kaam me kya hai ki pura samay nahi de pa raha hu.

(Maharaj ji, Kaaka and Kaaki then started talking amongst themselves in gujarati for a while.)

Maharaj ji : bahut late aaye tum, phone toh kabka aya thaMe : haan aaj der tak class thi na humari

(Maharaj ji was making a floor sheet for a new order that he had got. I thought of trying it as well, so I asked him if I could help him with it. He didnt mind me doing his work and looked quite welcoming also. Since I had never used this machine earlier so it was completely new to me and was trying to learn it and controlling the speed of it. I was trying to have control with my foot and folding the fabric correctly so that I can stitch it properly. Kaaka gave me full instructions on how to do it and what all things I need to take care of. It took me a while to understand how to operate it and the whole process of stitching. There was a pedal for running the machine, which I was controlling from my right foot as it was placed towards that side only and near my thigh there was a lever that had to be pressed horizontally to lift up the needle in order to place the fabric under the needle. Throughout he was looking at me and was seeing how I was doing it. From his expressions I could make out that there was a concern from his side for his work. But I noticed he has his own way and techniques of doing work. It wasnt very professional but maybe with that level of work he was able to cater and satisfy the requirement of his customers.)

Maharaj ji : tumhare haath ka control nahi haiMe : practice nahi haiMaharaj ji : tumhe toh bahut mehnat karni padegi tab control aegaMe : thoda lagataar karungi na toh aa jaegaAditya : abhi seekh jaegi, 5 minute me

(Kaaka was continuously looking at my work and was instructing me throughout. After like 15 minutes Maharaj ji came to me)

Maharaj ji : ye kya hota hai, dekho gadbad ho gayi

(I then continued working for more time)

Aditya : Maharaj ji iska bijli ka bill kitna aata hai?Maharaj ji : kya?Aditya : iska bill? Bijli kaMaharaj ji : bill toh, isme toh bahut nahi ataMe : toh ye aap hi dete ho ya trusty dete hai?Maharaj ji : ek lamp jalta hai na toh zada nahi ata. Wo toh ek chatur ata haiMe : par iska bill aap dete ho ya trusty bharte hai?Kaaka : ye toh mandir ke trusty hi dete hai. Ye sab bill wahi karengeAditya : toh harr mahine kitna bill ata hai? Harr mahine ata hai ya do mahineKaaka : do mahineMaharaj ji : isme toh bahut nahi ata. (asking me) ho gaya? Isko toh theek karna padega. Tum khade ho jao. Kaha kaha chut gaya hai dekho, isko theek karna padega. Abhi control nahi hai tumhare. Zada kaam karoge na tab control aegaMe : bahut time baad kia naMaharaj ji : haan zada kaam karne se control aa jata hai. Wo kya hai ki gadbad ho jaati hai

( He then started re doing everything that I did. Though his work wasnt very prcised but he seemed to be quite particular about his work. Kaaka brought a big piece of fabric from inside and placed it on the ground, under which Maharaj ji placed newly stitched piece of fabric. He sat down and was mapping the pattern of the fabric kept above it and then directly cut it. He didnt use a measuring tape or anything else and cut it according to his judgement. )

Maharaj ji : tum konse bhagwan ko maante ho? Bhagwan hai tumhara?Aditya : haanMaharaj ji : kya naam hai? Hindu nahi ho tum?Aditya : humare ghar me Buddha ko maante hai, BuddhistMaharaj ji : BuddhistAditya : gautam buddhMaharaj ji : lord Buddha? Acha ( a smile on his face which was kind of showing that he knows about it) wo toh cheen (china) me bahut haiAditya : bahut saari jagah hai. India me hai, China, Bhutan, TibetMaharaj ji : (asking me) aur tumhara?Me : humara waha mata raani ko maante haiMaharaj ji : ye paryaai shabd hai? Naam haiMe : shera waali maataMaharaj ji : shera waali, haann (he seemd to have recognized the name)Kaaka : amba ji. Haan wahi shera wali bhi bolte hai naMaharaj ji : wo toh picture me bolte hai na, shero wali. Jai mata di shero wali

(after sometime)

Aditya : maharaj ji ye kapda unhi ka haiMaharaj ji : kya?Aditya : ye kapda, unhone hi dia hai ya aap laaye hoMaharaj ji : ye? Haan hum kal lekar aaye.Aditya : achaMaharaj ji : wo kal gaye the na Ahmedabad.Aditya : or ye dusre walaMaharaj ji : wo jo ye banwata hai na wo laaye the par fit maine kia. Aisa toh mai aath dus kar dia. Wo pehle laya tha bola ki aisa kardo, toh maine kar dia tha. Pehle toh maine kia thaw aha baithke maap leke sab yaha cutting kia. Cutting karke ek dafa toh maine bana dia par baar baar toh kon maap lega, baar baar mai maap nahi letaKaaka : pehle banaya hua wo le aayeMaharaj ji : ab kya hai ki esi taraf se cutting karke bana deta hu. Jaha jaha cutting hota hai waha bana deta huAditya: par ye banana se pehle bhi kaat sakte the na aap pehleMaharaj ji : ye mai leke aya kal Ahmedabad se. uska phone aya tha jaldi bana do. Jaldi banao esa hai esa hai, esa chalta rehta hai. Par mai kya karu, ab toh humari tabiyat sudharni padegi tab chalega. Dekho kuch hota nahi par apna head hai na wo bhaari bhaari lagta haiAditya : sahi ho jaoge Maharaj ji, abhi thodi pareshani hai isliye esa ho gaya tha. Sahi se khana wagerah khaoge toh sahi ho jaega. Kasrat wagerah karnaMaharaj ji : kasrat toh bahut karta hu. Mere jaisi kasrat toh koi bhi nahi karta lekin khaane ka dhang hai na wo nahi badla isliye esa hota hai. Khaane me toh mai sab kha leta hu, bhajiya wagerah. Doctor ne mana kia hai par mai fir bhi kha leta huAditya : khaane me aapko kya pasand hai Maharaj ji?Maharaj ji : bahut acha lagta hai dosa (we all laughed at this) aur usne mana kia hai, doctor ne, par mai kha leta hu kya kare. Ab control karna padega (laughs!) nahi karenge toh hum bahut pareshan ho jaengeAditya : toh aap dosa yahi khaate ho ya bahar khaake aate hoMaharaj ji : nahi ghar peAditya : (looking at kaaki) aapko aata hai dosa bananaKaaka : sab chez ghar peMaharaj ji : aur mai gandhinagar me bhi khaata hu lekin sirf ek hi hotel meMe : konsa?Maharaj ji : avkaar. Tumne dekhi?Aditya : nahiMaharaj ji : avkar nahi dekhi? Toh tumne kya dekha(the way he said it, it made me feel as if I missed out something very great). Bahut VIP haiMe: VIP haiMaharaj ji : haan ji, bahut VIP hai. Kabhi kabhi humare bache aate hai na, unke janamdin aate hai toh bolte hai daddu humko le jao toh mai le jaata hu kya kare. Aur le jaata aur kha bhi leta (laughs!)Me : apne shauk bhi pure kar lete ho unke bahaneAditya : avkaar me hi kyu jaate hoMaharaj ji : avkaar bahut achi hai. Bahut achi hai. Wo kya hai ki swachta me mai bahut manta hu. Swachta hoti hai na mai waha jaata hu, jo swachta nahi hoti toh mai nahi khaata. Waha daam bhi bahut hai, daam bhi bahut lagta hai lekin yaha hai na swchta hai isliye mai jata hu. Par jab khaane ka mann karta hai na tab ghar me banate hai

( After chatting with us for quite some time he winded up his work as it was his time to perform rituals in the mandir. He performs puja at 7pm daily so before that he makes sure he winds up every work and the left over he starts the next day. After performing puja he doesnt work. He went inside and changed clothes. He was wearing a white dhoti and a white vest. He went inside the mandir and switched on the mechanical drums. Maybe it was kind of an indication for the whole village which would make them understand that it was puja time or maybe as a mark of celebration. We asked him if we would be available tomorrow also. But he had to go for some wedding so the next day was a busy day for him. He had to attend a wedding where he was a pandit. He asked us to come day after that.)

Transcript 51st March 2015

There has been a lot of mismatch in the timmings with Maharaj ji. He has been so busy with his work during these days that he could hardly spare any time to be at home. He was always out for some or the other work. We have been trying to meet him but that just couldnt happen. This day finally he was at home and could meet us. He asked us to visit him after 3 pm. We left at around 4 pm and it took us around half an hour to reach his place.

Since it rained the previous night so there were very less people in the lane in which he stays, generally its crowded. That blue door was closed. We went inside and saw that few ladies were sitting there in the mandir. Maybe some path or kirtan was happening. I had never seen any of those ladies there earlier. When we moved a little more inside the house, towards my right I saw Maharaj ji was sitting and was doing his work. I think he got some new order as last time we visited he was working on some other fabric and this day it was completely different. We went towards Maharaj ji, picked up chairs for us which were near his work table only and sat with him.

Aditya : (offering sweets) Maharaj ji, mai ghar gaya tha toh waha se mithai lekar ayaMaharaj ji : kya laaye?Aditya : dilli gaya tha mai, mummy ne diya merkoMe : mithai lekar aya hai, dilli seMaharaj ji : acha, dilli gaye the?Aditya : mera ghar udhar hi hai na, isko baalu sai bolte hai

( for sometime he was just looking at it only. From his expressions it seemed that he was quite hesitant in having it. Maybe he doesnt eat things brought by others or maybe he doesnt know us enough that he could take things. Then kaaki came and was asking what that was. She tasted it. Maharaj ji was looking at her only. He looked very confused. After she had it he was asking her how it was)

Maharaj ji : isme kya ata hai?Aditya : thoda sa khaake dekho

(he was then asking kaaki if it was gyaras this day. Many people have superstition about not eating things like rice on gyaras so I believe even he has some superstition about it. Kaaki was asking what was it made of. After Aditya told what that was exactly and what was it made of then he tasted it a little. After a while even Kaaka came there and Aditya offered sweets to him also. Unlike Maharaj ji, he instantly took it and ate it. Maharaj ji was asking him also if it was gyaras to which Kaaka confirmed that it was baaras this day and then he looked a little relieved. After it was confirmed to him then he had it once more also Those ladies who were sitting in front of mandir, started singing kirtan songs so it became a little noisy then.After having it, he then went inside the kitchen to wash hands and then came back and started working again.)

Me : ye naya order aya hai kya?Maharaj ji : haanMe : konse mandir ka hai?Maharaj ji : wo kobaAditya : maharaj ji us din jo bana rahe the wo ban gaya?Maharaj ji : haan wo toh ban gaya. Wo toh le bhi gayaAditya :