JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

Embed Size (px)

Citation preview

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    1/164

    ONGBW@K T NCAIfvc Jny =8th =5>7 \rfni trnksgrfpts

    53/=8/>7 Uicnsc hcip us.

    Unui A`kanwnrc

    (G`*GC@ `d NCA Ifvc G`kgcrts Qcst) \hfs Fs Ft Ur`lugcr&

    Uinfktfdds Nlvcrsc Qftkcss+

    Lfrcgt cxnjfkntf`k my Mrfnk Unkfsh+

    ^ A``l j`rkfka) Jr+ A`kanwnrc+

    N A``l j`rkfka+

    ^ Lfl y`u hnvc n ghnkgc t` prcpnrc d`r y`ur tcstfj`ky0

    N Vcs) F lfl+

    http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/8530http://teammichaeljackson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/GONGAWARE1.jpghttp://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/8530
  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    2/164

    ^ Lfl y`u hnvc jcctfkas0

    N F jct wfth jy ntt`rkcys) ycs+

    ^ H`w jnky ntt`rkcys lfl y`u jcct wfth0

    N \w +

    ^ Qhnt nrc thcfr knjcs0

    N Jnrvfk Uutknj) Jntthcw Jrb`kfg+

    ^ H`w jnky jcctfkas lfl y`u hnvc wfth y`ur ntt`rkcys0

    N \` prcpnrc0

    ^ Qcii) ict!s tnbc sfkgc y`ur lcp` ** dfrst `d nii) mcd`rc y`ur lcp`sftf`k) y`u jct d`rtw` tfjcs ** tw` scpnrntc lnys ** wfth y`ur ntt`rkcys t` prcpnrc t` afvc y`ur tcstfj`kyuklcr `nth+ V`u rcgnii thnt) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ H`w jnky tfjcs hnvc y`u jct wfth y`ur ntt`rkcys sfkgc thck0

    N Hnid n l`zck) jnymc+

    ^ H`w jnky tfjcs fk thc inst = wccbs0

    N 7 `r

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    3/164

    ^ @bny+ W` fk thc inst wccb y`u hnl n hnid l`zck jcctfkas) nkl y`u gnk!t rcgniiwhck thc inst jcctfka wns mcd`rc ycstcrlny0

    N F!vc mcck `k thc r`nl wfth thc ]`iifka Wt`kcs `k t`ur wfth thcj) nkl F hnvc k`tmcck nmic t` prcpnrc ifbc F wnktcl t`+ W` F!vc mcck acttfka tfjc whck F g`uil+

    ^ \hnt wnsk!t jy qucstf`k) Jr+ A`kanwnrc+ Jy qucstf`k wns? Fk thc inst = wccbsy`u snfl y`u jct hnid n l`zck tfjcs wfth y`ur ntt`rkcy+ \hc `kiy tfjc y`u gnk rcgniijcctfka wfth thcj wns ycstcrlny+ Lfl y`u jcct Wnturlny `r Wuklny0

    N K`+ F wns `ut `d t`wk+

    ^ V`u wcrc `ut `d t`wk0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u icdt t`wk `k drflny+ W` y`u lflk!t jcct `k Drflny cfthcr) rfaht0

    N K`+

    ^ Lfl y`u jcct `k \hurslny0

    N \hcy mr`uaht jc `vcr hcrc) mut ft wnsk!t n jcctfka+

    ^ Lfl y`u jcct `k Qclkcslny0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ Jr+ A`kanwnrc) hnvc y`u hnl pr`micjs fk thc pnst wfth y`ur jcj`ry0

    N K`) sfr+ F l`k!t thfkb s`+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) sfr) lfl y`u rcvfcw nky l`gujckts t` try t` rcdrcsh y`ur rcg`iicgtf`kt` tcstfdy uklcr `nth hcrc t`lny0

    N F rcvfcwcl thc l`gujckts thnt wcrc fk jy ** thnt y`u mr`uaht up fk jylcp`sftf`k+

    ^ \hnt!s ft0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Lfl y`u spcnb t` Jr+ Uhfiifps mcd`rc y`u gnjc nt nky tfjc t` tcstfdy0

    N K`) sfr+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    4/164

    ^ Hnvc y`u sp`bck t` Jr+ Nksghutz nm`ut thfs gnsc0

    N K`) sfr+

    ^ W` y`u!vc kcvcr sp`bck t` Jr+ Nksghutz nt nky tfjc nm`ut thfs inwsuft) fs thnt

    g`rrcgt0

    N \hnt!s g`rrcgt+

    ^ H`w nm`ut Jr+ \`hjc ** hnvc y`u sp`bck wfth hfj0

    N F hnvc sp`bck t` hfj) mut k`t nm`ut thc inwsuft+

    ^ @bny+ Qhck lfl y`u inst spcnb t` hfj0

    N N g`upic j`kths na`+

    ^ Wfr) nrc y`u gurrcktiy thc G`*GC@ `d NCA Ifvc G`kgcrts Qcst0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u wcrc thnt ** fk thnt p`sftf`k fk =556 whck thc \hfs Fs Ft t`ur wnsd`rjfka0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl G`kgcrts Qcst fs n lfvfsf`k `d NCA Ifvc0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Nkl NCA Ifvc Ur`lugtf`ks) nrc y`u dnjfifnr wfth thnt cktfty) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nrc thcrc nky cjpi`yccs `d thnt cktfty0

    N Sj) F l`k!t thfkb thcrc!s nky cjpi`yccs) pcr sc+ \hnt!s n pr`lugtf`k g`jpnky thntwc usc t` ** whck wc pr`lugc sh`ws ns `pp`scl t` pr`j`tc thcj+

    ^ Ifbc whck y`u pr`lugcl \hfs Fs Ft) thnt wns n sh`w y`u pr`lugcl) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Qhnt `thcr sh`ws hnvc y`u pr`lugcl nt NCA Ifvc) sfr0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    5/164

    N Qc pr`lugcl n t`ur d`r Urfkgc fk !65 ** =55

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    6/164

    pr`j`tf`k nkl pr`lugtf`k0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ ]cicvnkgc+

    Oulac? Wustnfkcl+

    Unkfsh? V ur h`k`r+ Gust`j nkl prngtfgc `d thc g`jpnky+

    Oulac? Jnymc intcr+

    Unkfsh? \hc `kiy qucstf`k wns lfl hc) ycs `r k`+

    Oulac? Vcs `r k` jny mcg`jc rcicvnkt+

    Unkfsh? G`uil y`u picnsc nsb thc qucstf`k mc rcnl mngb0

    (qucstf`k fs rcnl mngb&

    N K`+

    ^ K`w sfr) y`u anvc n lcp`sftf`k fk thfs gnsc uklcr `nth) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u!vc tcstfdfcl fk thc grfjfkni gnsc uklcr `nth) g`rrcgt0

    N ]faht+

    ^ Nkl y`u!vc afvck lcp`sftf`ks mcd`rc uklcr `nth) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl y`u!vc mcck fk `thcr inwsufts) g`rrcgt0

    N F!vc kcvcr mcck sucl) mut F!vc pnrtfgfpntcl ns ** y`u bk`w ** ns pnrtfgfpnkt+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    7/164

    ^ Qcii) y`ur g`jpnky) G`kgcrts Qcst hns mcck fk inwsufts mcd`rc) hnlk!t ft sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ ]cicvnkgc+ Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t bk`w d nky+

    ^ L` y`u bk`w nk fklfvfluni knjcl Huictt0 Hnvc y`u cvcr hcnrl thnt knjc) sfr0

    N Nh) ycs+ \`j Huictt+

    ^ Nkl wh` fs Jr+ Huictt0

    N Hc wns thc ** `d thc d`rjcr G`kgcrts Qcst ** hc rnk thc g`jpnky+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl wns hc fk n inwsuft wfth G`kgcrts Qcst) sfr0

    N K`) hc wnsk!t+

    ^ Qns hfs g`jpnky fk n inwsuft wfth G`kgcrts Qcst) sfr0

    N K`) sfr+

    ^ Qcrc y`u lcp`scl fk nky jnttcr fkv`ivfka Jr+ Huictt0

    N K`) sfr+

    ^ @bny+ K`w sfr) y`u tcstfdfcl fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k uklcr `nth thnt y`u wcrc n GUN) fsthnt rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thnt y`u wcrc ifgckscl fk Kcw V rb nkl Qnshfkat`k) fs thnt g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Wfr) y`u!rc k`t ifgckscl fk Kcw V`rb nkl Qnshfkat`k) nrc y`u0

    N F hnvck!t bcpt up jy gurrckt ** jy g`ktfkufka grclfts) s` F hnvck!t ** jyg`ktfkufka clugntf`kni grclfts) s` F w`uilk!t mc nmic t` prngtfgc+

    ^ Wfr) y`ur ifgcksc inpscl fk Kcw V`rb `vcr =5 ycnrs na`) lflk!t ft sfr0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    8/164

    N F hnvc k` flcn+

    ^ Qcii) y`u tcstfdfcl thnt y`u!rc ifgckscl) mut y`u!rc k`t ifgckscl fk Kcw V`rb ns nGUN) nrc y`u sfr0

    N F l`k!t bk`w+ \hc inst F bkcw) F wns+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) whck wns ** l` y`u pny lucs cvcry ycnr t` mc n ifgckscl GUN fk KcwV`rb) sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ @bny+ Wfr) fsk!t ft truc thnt y`ur ifgcksc inpscl `vcr =5 ycnrs na` ns n GUN fk thcWtntc `d Kcw V`rb0

    N F hnvc k` flcn+

    ^ @bny+ Mut y`u oust t`il us thnt y`u!rc ifgckscl) lflk!t y`u0

    N F mcifcvc F nj+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii sfr) y`u!rc k`t ifgckscl ** y`u tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth y`u!rc ifgckscl fkthc Wtntc `d Qnshfkat`k ns n GUN) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`ur ifgcksc hns inpscl fk thc Wtntc `d Qnshfkat`k nis`) hnsk!t ft sfr0

    N F hnvc k` flcn+

    ^ Qcii) s` y`u l`k!t bk`w whcthcr y`u!rc n ifgckscl GUN fk Kcw V`rb `rQnshfkat`k) l` y`u sfr0

    N F mcifcvc F nj+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) hnvc y`u i``bcl `k thc Ifgcksfka M`nrl nkl ghcgbcl thc stntus `dy`ur ifgcksc fk thc inst =5 ycnrs fk thc Wtntc `d Kcw V`rb) sfr0

    N K`+ F kcvcr dcit n kccl t` mcgnusc f l`k!t prngtfgc+

    ^ Mut y`u tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth thnt y`u!rc ifgckscl) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    9/164

    ^ K`w sfr) y`u!vc mcck fk thfs g`kgcrt musfkcss sfkgc >61=) fs thnt rfaht0

    N W`ukls nm`ut rfaht+

    ^ Nkl y`u!vc pr`j`tcl mnkls ifbc Mcngh M`ys) Icl _cppcifk) Civfs Urcsicy)

    ]`iifka Wt`kcs) y`u t`il us) rfaht0N F l`k!t bk`w thnt F jcktf`kcl ]`iifka Wt`kcs+

    ^ V`u oust lfl thfs j`rkfka+N @h) thfs j`rkfka+ @bny+ F th`uaht y`u wcrc rcdcrrfka t` jy lcp`sftf`k+ W`rry+

    ^ Lfl F sny y`ur lcp`sftf`k) sfr0

    N W`rry) sfr+ Jfsuklcrst``l+

    K`w sfr) G`kgcrts Qcst) lfl y`u grcntc thnt knjc0

    N K`+

    ^ Qh` grcntcl thnt knjc0

    N Ft wns nircnly ** F wckt t` w`rb d`r G`kgcrts Qcst fk thc 15s fk Qnshfkat`kWtntc+

    ^ Nkl G`kgcrts Qcst) wns thnt `wkcl my nk fklfvfluni0

    N F!j k`t surc wh` `wkcl ft+

    ^ Qh` wns y`ur uklcrstnklfka `d thc pc`pic rukkfka G`kgcrts Qcst whck y`uo`fkcl ft0

    N \`j Huictt) \crry Mnssctt whck f o`fkcl ft+ Icstcr Wjfth+

    ^ H`w nm`ut Ocrry Qcfktrnum0 Lfl y`u cvcr w`rb d`r hfj) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Qhck lfl y`u w`rb d`r hfj0

    N F w`rbcl d`r hfj ** a`sh) F l`k!t bk`w whnt thc lntc wns+ W`jcwhcrc nr`ukl thccnriy !85s+

    ^ Nkl whcrc lfl y`u w`rb d`r hfj) sfr0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    10/164

    N Fk I`s Nkacics+

    ^ Nkl whfgh g`jpnky0

    N Nt thnt tfjc F wns wfth G`kgcrts Qcst nkl F w`rbcl ** wns nssfakcl t`

    Jnknacjckt 7 ** Ocrry!s g`jpnky+ Jr+ Qcfktrnum!s g`jpnky+

    ^ K`w sfr) y`u jcktf`kcl Civfs Urcsicy+ V`u pr`j`tcl n t`ur d`r Civfs Urcsicy) fsthnt rfaht) sfr0

    N F w`rbcl `k thc t`urs+ F wnsk!t thc pr`j`tcr+

    ^ Qhnt wns y`ur p`sftf`k0

    N F wns nssfakcl t` G`i`kci \`j Unrbcr+

    ^ Fs thnt Jr+ Urcsicy!s nackt0

    N \hnt!s hfs jnknacr+

    ^ Jnknacr+

    Nkl sfr) y`u w`rbcl `k thnt t`ur whck Civfs Urcsicy lfcl) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl Civfs Urcsicy lfcl rcintcl t` prcsgrfptf`k lruas) g`rrcgt0

    N F mcifcvc hc lfl) ycs+

    ^ Nkl thcrc wns n l`gt`r `k thc t`ur) Lr+ Kfgb) thnt wns afvfka hfj thc prcsgrfptf`klruas) g`rrcgt0

    N \hcrc wcrc scvcrni l`gt`rs fkv`ivcl+ F mcifcvc Lr+ Kfgb wns `kc `d thcj) ycs+

    ^ Qcii) y`u!vc tnibcl t` `thcrs nm`ut y`ur cxpcrfckgcs wfth Civfs Urcsicy nkl hfslcnth nkl thc t`ur y`u wcrc fkv`ivcl fk) hnvck!t y`u sfr0

    N F!j surc F hnvc+

    ^ Qcii sfr) y`u!vc wrfttck t` pc`pic rcanrlfka thfs gnsc nkl Civfs Urcsicy) hnvck!ty`u sfr0

    N L`k!t rcgnii+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    11/164

    ^ Qcii sfr) l` y`u rcgnii wh` Anmc Wutt`k fs0

    N Anmc Wutt`k0

    ^ Vcs+ A*N*M*C Wutt`k+

    N K`+

    ^ Wfr) fs ft truc thnt whck y`u w`rbcl `k thc Civfs t`ur whck hc lfcl ** s` y`u bkcwwhnt t` cxpcgt whck Jfghnci Ongbs`k pnsscl nwny) fsk!t thnt rfaht) sfr0

    N F bfkl `d bkcw whnt wns a`fka t` hnppck) ycs+

    ^ Nkl y`u bkcw ** strfbc thnt qucstf`k+ Ict jc sh`w y`u) sfr) cxhfmft+ \hfs fs nk c*jnfi dr`j Ouiy 3th) =556+

    L` y`u bk`w whnt lny jfghnci ongbs`k pnsscl nwny) sfr0

    N Oukc =3th+

    ^ V`u rcjcjmcr thnt spcgfdfg lny) rfaht0

    N F l`+

    ^ @bny+ W` ict jc **

    Unkfsh? Fd y`u g`uil put thnt up0

    (Unkfsh cxhfmfts cjnfi&

    A`kanwnrc? Gnk F hnvc n hnrl g`py `d thfs) picnsc0

    Unkfsh? Nms`iutciy+ (afvcs n g`py&

    A`kanwnrc? \hnkb y`u+

    ^ Fs thnt y`ur knjc `k thnt c*jnfi) sfr0

    N Gnk F hnvc n scg`kl t` rcvfcw ft) picnsc0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    12/164

    ^ Wurc+ \cii jc whck y`u!rc rcnly+

    N @bny+ (rcnlfka l`gujckt&

    Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Lfl y`u sckl thnt c*jnfi) sfr0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii) mut f jny hnvc) ycnh+

    Unkfsh? F wnkt t` put thnt up+

    (Unkfsh cxhfmfts cjnfi&

    ^ Nkl wh` fs Anmc Wuttcr0

    N Wuttcr+ Anmc Wuttcr fs n g`jputcr auy) w`rbcl `k jy g`jputcrs+ Nkl hc wnsfkv`ivcl fk thc ** gnk!t rcjcjmcr whnt t`ur hc wns) mut F wns `k t`ur wfth hfj+ F thfkb ftjfaht hnvc mcck Jfghnci Ongbs`k) `kc `d thc cnrifcr t`urs+

    ^ Lnkacr`us0N Vcnh+ Jfaht hnvc mcck+

    ^ Ft snys? F wns w`rbfka `k thc Civfs t`ur whck hc lfcl) s` F bfkl `d bkcw whnt t`cxpcgt+

    Lfl f rcnl thnt rfaht) sfr0N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Lfl y`u wrftc thnt `k Ouiy 3th) =5560

    N F l`k!t rcgnii wrftfka ft) mut Fj surc F lfl+

    ^ Wfr) l` y`u bk`w Jr+ \rcii0

    N @h) ycs+

    ^ Nkl wh` fs ** l` y`u rcp`rt t` Jr+ \rcii0

    N K`+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    13/164

    ^ Qh` l` y`u rcp`rt t`0

    N F aucss ]nkly Uhfiifps+

    ^ \hc GC@ `d NCA Ifvc0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl l` y`u bk`w thnt ackticjnk sfttfka kcxt t` Jr+ \rcii thcrc wfth thc ainsscswh` y`u wcrc sfttfka my cnrifcr t`lny0

    N \`ll Nink+

    ^ Qhnt fs hfs p`sftf`k wfth thc g`jpnky) sfr0

    N Hc!s k`t wfth thc g`jpnky+

    ^ Qhnt l`cs hc l`0

    N Hc!s n inwycr+

    ^ D`r wh`0

    N D`r @Jcivcky+

    ^ D`r Jr+ Uutknj!s dfrj0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Lfl hc w`rb `k prcpnrfka y`u d`r thfs gnsc) sfr0

    N Hc lfl) pr`mnmiy) n ifttic) ycs+

    ^ W` thnt!s nk`thcr inwycr y`u oust d`ra`t t` jcktf`k0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ H`w nm`ut thc fklfvfluni sfttfka kcxt t` Jr+ Nink0 L` y`u bk`w wh` thnt fs0

    N Fj s`rry) F l`k!t+

    ^ V`u l`k!t bk`w hcr0

    N K`+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    14/164

    ^ @bny+ K`w) l` y`u bk`w nk`thcr inwycr hcrc sfttfka kcxt t` Jr+ Uutknj0

    N Vcs) F l`+

    ^ Qhnt fs hcr knjc0

    N Ocssfgn mfkn+

    ^ Nkl lfl shc hcip prcpnrc y`u t` tcstfdy uklcr `nth) sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ K`w sfr) fk nii thc cxpcrfckgcs y`u hnl) lfl y`u cvcr mcg`jc nwnrc thnt nky nrtfsty`u wcrc w`rbfka wfth wns usfka nky typcs `d lruas `k n t`ur0

    N \hcrc wns `kc) ycs+

    ^ Qh` wns thnt0

    N ]fgb Onjcs+

    ^ ]fgb Onjcs+ Qhnt wns hfs s`ka0 ]cjcjmcr hfs j`st dnj`us s`ka0

    N Wupcr Drcnb+ Afvc Ft \` Jc) Mnmy+ ** Vcs) hc wns nk ]$M nrtfst+

    ^ Nkl y`u w`rbcl wfth ]fgb Onjcs0

    N Vcs) F lfl+

    ^ K`w) y`u bkcw thnt ** mnscl `k y`ur cxpcrfckgc wfth Jfghnci Ongbs`k ** thntthcrc wcrc pr`micjs `k `thcr t`urs) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Tnauc nkl njmfau`us ns t` pr`micjs+

    A`kanwnrc? Vcs) F l`k!t uklcrstnkl+

    Oulac? Wustnfkcl+

    ^ Qcii) hnvc y`u cvcr stntcl t` nky`kc) sfr) thnt y`u bkcw ** y`u!l mcck wfth

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    15/164

    Jfghnci Ongbs`k ** nkl y`u bkcw thc pr`micjs nkl flf`sykgrnsfcs `k `thcr t`urs0 Lfly`u cvcr jnbc thnt stntcjckt t` nky`kc) sfr0

    Uutknj? Wnjc `mocgtf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t rcgnii jnbfka thnt stntcjckt+

    ^ @bny+ V`u l`k!t rcgnii jcnks y`u g`uil hnvc) y`u g`uil k`t hnvc) y`u oust l`k!trcgnii0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) whck y`u stnrtcl w`rbfka d`r G`kgcrts Qcst) wns thnt fk >614) sfr0

    N W`jcwhcrc nr`ukl thcrc+

    ^ Nkl thc Civfs t`ur wns fk >6110

    N \hnt wns `kc `d thcj+

    ^ Qcii) thc `kc whck hc lfcl0

    N Vcs+

    ^ K`w sfr) lfl y`u ** nkl Jr+ Jcaick) fs thnt y`ur G`*GC@ ** fs thnt rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Lfl Jr+ Jcaick nkl y`u muy thc knjc G`kgcrts Qcst dr`j s`jc`kc0

    N K`+

    ^ Lfl y`u mrfka G`kgcrts wcst t` NCA Ifvc) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Lfl NCA Ifvc muy G`kgcrts Qcst0

    N M`uaht thc nsscts+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    16/164

    ^ Fs thnt n ycs0

    N M`uaht thc nsscts+

    ^ Nkl thck y`u gnjc wfth thc nsscts0 V`u wcrc `kc `d thc nsscts `d thc g`jpnky)rfaht0

    N Urfjnrfiy) ycs+

    ^ W` thcy m`uaht y`u0

    N Urfjnrfiy+

    ^ K`w) cnrifcr fk y`ur gnrccr) y`u hnl w`rbcl wfth thc Ongbs`ks nkl thc Ongbs`k 3)g`rrcgt0

    N F lfl+

    ^ Mut y`u lflk!t hnvc nky fktcrngtf`k wfth Jfghnci Ongbs`k nt thnt tfjc) lfl y`u sfr0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Mcgnusc hc wns vcry y`uka nt thnt tfjc) g`rrcgt0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii hfs nac+

    ^ K`w) y`u nis` t`il us ** Lfl y`u w`rb `k thc Lnkacr`us \`ur0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl wcrc y`u thc t`ur jnknacr0

    N Vcs) F wns+

    ^ Nkl wns thc Lnkacr`us \`ur dr`j >66= t` >6670

    N Vcs+

    ^ Qcrc thcrc 15 pcrd`rjnkgcs fk Cur`pc) Nsfn) W`uth Njcrfgn nkl K`rth Njcrfgn0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii h`w jnky pcrd`rjnkgcs) mut thnt!s ackcrniiy thc ** whcrc ft t``bpingc+

    ^ Qcii) l` y`u bk`w nkywhcrc cisc ft t``b pingc `thcr thnk Cur`pc) Nsfn) W`uthNjcrfgn nkl K`rth Njcrfgn0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    17/164

    N F l`k!t rcgnii ft t``b pingc fk K`rth Njcrfgn+ F l`k!t rcgnii thnt+

    ^ Fs Jcxfg` fk K`rth Njcrfgn) sfr0

    N Vcs) sfr+ Ft lfl tnbc pingc fk K`rth Njcrfgn+

    ^ Nkl sfr) ft jnlc `vcr ,>55 jfiif`k ar`ss) lflk!t ft0

    N F l`k!t bk`w whnt thc ar`ss wns+

    ^ Nkl nii thc pr`dfts t` Jr+ Ongbs`k wcrc l`kntcl t` ghnrfty) wcrck!t thcy0

    N F l`k!t bk`w thnt+

    ^ V`u kcvcr icnrkcl thnt0

    N F kcvcr icnrkcl thnt+

    ^ H`w nm`ut thc Lnkacr`us nimuj0 Nrc y`u dnjfifnr wfth thnt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Fs thnt thc dnstcst sciifka nimuj cvcr d`r Jr+ Ongbs`k fk thc Skftcl Wtntcs0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F hnvc k` flcn+

    ^ Lfl y`u w`rb `k thc Mnl \`ur) sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ L` y`u bk`w h`w jnky g`uktrfcs thnt t`ur wckt t`0

    N K`+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    18/164

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? F!j s`rry+ Lfl y`u sny y`u lfl k`t w`rb k thnt t`ur0

    A`kanwnrc? F lfl k`t w`rb+

    Oulac? Wustnfkcl+

    ^ \hc qucstf`k fs? L` y`u bk`w0

    N F l`k!t bk`w+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) y`u wcrc wfth Jfghnci Ongbs`k ** Qhck y`u dfrst jct JfghnciOngbs`k) y`u wcrc wfth G`i`kci Unrbcr) fs thnt rfaht0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Nkl whnt lfl y`u gnii hfj0 Civfs!s whnt0

    N Jnknacr+

    ^ Jnknacr+ Nkl G`i`kci Unrbcr wns wcii bk`wk fk thc fklustry0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl whck y`u jct Jfghnci Ongbs`k) wns thnt fk Ins Tcans0N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl wns Jr+ Wtcvc Qykks mr`thcr) Jfghnci Qykk prcsckt0

    N Ft wns Bckky Qykk+ Hc wns ** F wns vfsftfka thc G`i`kci) nkl Bckky Qykk gniiclnkl snfl hc wns wfth Jfghnci Ongbs`k) nkl Jfghnci wnktcl t` jcct thc G`i`kci+W` F wns a`fka t` icnvc) nkl thc G`i`kci snfl? K`) k`+ Wtny+

    Nkl Jfghnci gnjc `vcr) nkl wc tnibcl d`r nk h`ur `r tw`+

    ^ Qhnt ycnr wns thnt0

    N L`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ Nkl lfl y`u cvcktuniiy mcg`jc thc jnknacr `d thc Lnkacr`us \`ur0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    19/164

    N K`+

    ^ V`u kcvcr wcrc thc jnknacr `d thc Lnkacr`us \`ur0

    N K`+ F wns thc t`ur jnknacr) whfgh wns) F wns rcsp`ksfmic d`r i`afstfgs wfth thc Mpnrty+ \hcrc wcrc < pnrtfcs fk thnt t`ur+ \hc N pnrty? thc nrtfst pnrty+ M wns mnkl nklnljfkfstrntf`k+ G wns grcw+ L wns l`gujcktnry+ Nkl jy rcsp`ksfmfifty wns fk thc Mpnrty t` jnbc surc wc a`t ** F a`t cvcrym`ly whcrc thcy wcrc supp`scl t` a`+

    ^ W` y`u wcrc thc t`ur jnknacr0

    N \hc t`ur jnknacr+

    ^ Nkl thc t`ur jnknacr fs fk ghnrac `d i`afstfgs0

    N Vcs+ Nkl F wns fk ghnrac `d thc M pnrty i`afstfgs+

    ^ \rnvci) h`tcis) pnssp`rts) thfkas ifbc thnt0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl thnt Lnkacr`us \`ur) thcrc wcrc n i`t `d fktcrkntf`kni i`afstfgs y`u hnl t`lcni wfth) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl lfl y`u pr`j`tc s`jc `d thc lntcs d`r thc dfrst ica `d thc Hfst`ry \`ur) sfr0

    N F pr`j`tcl thc lntc fk Fkl`kcsfn) nkl F pr`j`tcl thc tw` sh`ws fk Hnwnff+

    ^ W` thnt!s n ycs0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl sfr) y`u thck mcgnjc n t`ur cxcgutfvc d`r thc scg`kl ica `d thc Hfst`ry \`ur)rfaht0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Nkl thc dfrst ica y`u w`rbcl wfth Jnrgci Nvrnj) fs thnt rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thc scg`kl ica) lfl y`u mcg`jc thck n t`ur cxcgutfvc0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    20/164

    N Vcs+ @k thc scg`kl ica F wns w`rbfka lfrcgtiy d`r Jfghnci+

    ^ Nkl whnt hnppckcl t` Jr+ Nvrnj0

    N Oust mcd`rc thc t`ur stnrtcl) hc wckt t` onfi `k n tnx fssuc fk Acrjnky+

    ^ W` hc wns k` i`kacr nvnfinmic0N ]faht+

    ^ Nkl lfl s`jcm`ly cisc tnbc `vcr ** Jr+ Njjnr0

    N \nrnb Mck Njjnr mcgnjc Jfghncis jnknacr) ycs+

    ^ K`w) thc Hfst`ry \`ur+ Qhck thnt stnrtcl) y`u bkcw thnt Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnlmcck t` rchnmfiftntf`k nt thc ckl `d thc Lnkacr`us \ ur) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u bkcw thnt Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnl nk fssuc nt thnt tfjc wfth jclfgntf`ksnkl lruas nkl hnl t` a` t` rchnmfiftntf`k) g`rrcgt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+

    A`kanwnrc? Vcs+ Mnscl `k thc stntcjckt hc jnlc ndtcr thc t`ur wns `vcr) F icnrkcl

    ft thck) ycs+

    Unkfsh? Fs thnt n ycs) sfr0

    Oulac? Qhck thcrc!s nk `mocgtf`k) l`k!t nkswcr uktfi F gnk ruic `k ft+

    A`kanwnrc? F!j s`rry+ F lflk!t hcnr nk `mocgtf`k+

    Oulac? \hnt!s nii rfaht+ Qhck thcrc!s nk `mocgtf`k) oust l` k`t nkswcr+ Nkl thck F

    gnk ruic `k thc `mocgtf`k) nkl y`u!ii bk`w whcthcr y`u gnk rcsp`kl `r k`t+

    A`kanwnrc? @bny+ F lflk!t hcnr ft+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    21/164

    ^ @bny+ Gnk y`u hcnr jc `bny) Jr+ A`kanwnrc0

    N Vcs sfr) s` dnr+

    ^ Fd y`u gnk!t hcnr jc) ict jc bk`w) nii rfaht0

    N Qfii l`+

    ^ @bny+ K`w sfr) ft!s y`ur tcstfj`ky uklcr `nth thnt y`u kcvcr bkcw nt nky tfjcuktfi ndtcr thc Lnkacr`us \`ur wns `vcr thnt Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnl nky pr`micjs wfthlruas `r nig`h`i) g`rrcgt0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ V`u!rc ns surc `d thnt ns nkythfka y`u!vc tcstfdfcl t` fk thfs gnsc) rfaht0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ K`w sfr) lfl Jfghnci Ongbs`k ** Lfl y`u tcii thc I`s Nkacics U`ifgc Lcpnrtjcktthnt y`u wcrc nwnrc `d Jfghnci Ongbs`ks prcvf`us fssucs wfth pnfkbfiicrs0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii spcgfdfgniiy whnt F t`il thcj+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) Fl ifbc t` sh`w y`u cxhfmft) nkl F!j a`fka t` mrfka ft up t` y`u) sfr+Nkl F!j a`fka t` put ft up `k thc sgrcck+

    Unkfsh? L`k!t put ft up yct mcgnusc F l`k!t thfkb ft!s fk cvflckgc+

    ^ Nkl y`u gnk rcnl thc wh`ic thfka fd y`u wnkt t` tnbc thc tfjc) mut F wnkt t` nsby`u nm`ut n spcgfdfg pnrt+ F!j a`fka t` ycii`w ft `ut d`r y`u

    (sh`ws A`kanwnrc thc l`gujckt&\cii jc whck y`u!rc rcnly) Jr+ A`kanwnrc+

    N Fd ft!s spcgfdfg t` thfs) F!j rcnly+^ @bny+ Jy qucstf`k wns? L`cs thnt rcdrcsh y`ur rcg`iicgtf`k ns t` whcthcr y`u t`ilthc I`s Nkacics U`ifgc Lcpnrtjckt thnt y`u wcrc nwnrc `d Jfghnci Ongbs`k!s prcvf`ususc `d pnfkbfiicrs0

    N Vcs) F wns+ Nkl F wns) mnscl `k hfs pumifg stntcjckt+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    22/164

    ^ Fs thnt n ycs) sfr0 Jr+ A`kanwnrc) g`uil y`u ** fd jy qucstf`ks nrc ukgicnr) picnscl`k!t nkswcr thcj) `bny0

    N @bny+

    ^ Fd y`u l`k!t uklcrstnkl thc qucstf`k) picnsc ict jc bk`w) bny0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Gnk y`u nkswcr thc qucstf`ks thnt F nsbcl y`u0

    N Wurc+ F!l mc hnppy t`+

    ^ @bny+ L`cs thnt rcdrcsh y`ur rcg`iicgtf`k thnt y`u t`il thc I`s Nkacics U`ifgcLcpnrtjckt thnt y`u wcrc nwnrc `d Jfghnci Ongbs`k!s prcvf`us usc `d pfiis nkl

    pnfkbfiicrs0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nsbcl nkl nkswcrcl+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Vcs+

    ^ \hnkb y`u+ K`w ** nkl ft!s y`ur ginfj thnt y`u kcvcr icnrkcl nky `d thfs uktfindtcr thc Lnkacr`us \`ur) rfaht0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) thc Lnkacr`us \`ur hnl gnkgciintf`ks mcd`rc thc wh`ic t`ur wnsgnkgcicl) lflk!t ft sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl thcrc wcrc n i`t `d gnkgciintf`ks) mcgnusc y`u!rc thc `kc thnt hnl t`tnbc gnrc `d nii thc i`afstfgs) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl whck thcrc wcrc gnkgciintf`ks) lfl y`u try t` dfkl `ut why n gnkgcintf`k wns`ggurrfka0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    23/164

    N Lflk!t hnvc tfjc+ Qns oust lcnifka wfth whnt wns fk dr`kt `d jc+

    ^ W` n a``l t`ur jnknacr) r n a``l t`ur cxcgutfvc) bk`ws whnt!s a`fka `k fk thct`ur) l`k!t thcy0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nraujcktntfvc+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N K t fk thc gnsc d thc Jfghnci Ongbs`k t`urs+

    ^ W` ft!s y`ur tcstfj`ky) thck) thnt n a``l t`ur jnknacr l`cs k`t bk`w whnt!s a`fka`k wfth thc t`ur) fs thnt rfaht0

    N K`t fk thc gnsc `d thc Jfghnci Ongbs`k t`ur+

    ^ W` thnt!s n ycs) g`rrcgt0

    N K`) sfr+ F jcnk) thnt!s k`t kcgcssnrfiy n ycs) mut fk thc gnsc `d Jfghnci Ongbs`k+

    ^ Qcii sfr) l` y`u bk`w Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Fs hc nk h`kcst pcrs`k0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Hnvc y`u bk`wk hfj d`r jnky) jnky ycnrs0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl w`uil y`u lfsputc Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk fd hc snfl y`u wcrc nwnrc thntJfghnci Ongbs`k hnl pnfk nkl prcsgrfptf`k lrua pr`micjs mcd`rc thc Lnkacr`us \`ur wns`vcr0

    N Sj) F wns nwnrc `k tw` `ggnsf`ks thnt hc wns tnbfka pnfkbfiicrs) mut F wnsk!tnwnrc thnt thcrc wcrc pr`micjs+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    24/164

    ^ @bny) sfr+ F!j a`fka t` rc*nsb thc qucstf`k nanfk) `bny0 Fd y`u l`k!t uklcrstnkl ft)picnsc ict jc bk`w) `bny0 Nii rfaht+

    F wnkt y`u t` nssujc thnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk hns tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth nkl wfii tcstfdy uklcr

    `nth thnt y`u wcrc nwnrc thnt Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnl n pr`micj wfth pnfkbfiicrs nkljclfgntf`ks prf`r t` thc Lnkacr`us \`ur mcfka gnkgcicl+

    Lfl y`u uklcrstnkl thnt pnrt `d ft) sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k) y`ur h`k`r+ Fjpr`pcr fjpcnghjckt nkl fjpr`pcr

    hyp`thctfgni+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    ^ Lfl y`u uklcrstnkl thnt0N Uicnsc nsb jc nanfk+

    Unkfsh? @bny+ F!j s`rry+ G`uil f nsb thnt ft mc rcnl mngb0

    (thc qucstf`k fs rcnl mngb&

    N F lflk!t uklcrstnkl thnt Jfghnci hnl n pr micj+

    ^ Wfr) oust nsbfka fd y`u oust uklcrst``l jy qucstf`k+

    Oulac? Qhy l`k!t y`u rc*nsb ft0

    Unkfsh? Wurc+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    25/164

    A`kanwnrc? F!j s`rry+ \hfs fs acttfka g`kdusfka+

    ^ Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk fs n i`ka*tfjc drfckl `d y`urs) fsk!t hc sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Qhck lfl y`u inst scc hfj0

    N Dcw j`kths na`+

    ^ Qns hc nt G`nghciin0

    N Vcs) sfr+ G`nghciin+

    ^ G`nghciin+ Qcrc y`u thcrc0

    N Vcs+

    ^ \hnt wns fk Jny) rfaht0

    N Nprfi) F thfkb+

    ^ Lfl hc w`rb nt thc t`ur `r nt thc g`kgcrt0

    N F l`k!t thfkb hc wns w`rbfka nt thnt `kc+

    ^ Mut hc!s w`rbcl d`r NCA mcd`rc) hnsk!t hc sfr0

    N D`r NCA) k`+ Mut hc hns `ggnsf`kniiy trcntcl nrtfsts+

    ^ Wfr) F wnkt y`u t` nssujc ** y`u bk`w whnt ft jcnks t` nssujc s`jcthfka0

    N F mcifcvc s`+

    ^ @bny+ F wnkt y`u t` nssujc thnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk hns tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth+ Lfl y`ubk`w thnt hc tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth fk thfs gnsc0

    N F l` bk`w thnt hc wns lcp`scl) ycs+

    ^ Lfl hc tcii y`u thnt0

    N F mcifcvc hc lfl) ycs+

    ^ Lfl y`u tnib nm`ut hfs lcp`sftf`k wfth hfj0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    26/164

    N K`+

    ^ Qhnt) hc oust snfl? Hcy) `h my thc wny) F anvc n lcp`sftf`k fk thc gnsc0

    N Qc wcrc fkstrugtcl k`t t` lfsguss ft+

    ^ Qh` fkstrugtcl thnt t` y`u0N Jy ntt`rkcys+

    ^ L`k!t tcii jc whfgh ntt`rkcy t`il y`u+ F l`k!t wnkt t` bk`w thnt+

    Mut Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk mr`uaht up `k hfs `wk t` y`u thnt hc hnl afvck n lcp`sftf`k fk thfsgnsc) fs thnt rfaht0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii h`w ft gnjc up+

    ^ Qcii) y`u oust t`il us) F th`uaht ** oust jnbc surc F!j g`rrcgt hcrc+ V`u sp`bc wfthLr+ Dfkbcistcfk ** fs ft Dfkbcistcfk `r Dfkbcistfkc0

    N Dfkbcistcfk+

    ^ Dfkbcistcfk nm`ut hfs lcp`sftf`k) g`rrcgt0 \hnt hc hnl afvck hfs lcp`sftf`k0

    N Oust thnt hc hnl afvck `kc+

    ^ W` hc gnjc up t` y`u nkl snfl? Hcy) my thc wny) F oust anvc n lcp`sftf`k fk y`urgnsc0

    N Hc jny hnvc+

    ^ L` y`u rcjcjmcr0

    N F l`k!t rcjcjmcr spcgfdfgniiy+

    ^ Qhck lfl hc tcii y`u thnt0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ H`w i`ka na` wns ft0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ N ycnr na`0

    N F l`k!t thfkb ft!s mcck n ycnr sfkgc wc!vc l`kc thc lcp`sftf`ks) s` ft w`uilk!t hnvc

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    27/164

    mcck n ycnr+

    ^ Qcii) h`w l` y`u bk`w whck Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk lfl hfs lcp`sftf`k0

    N Ngtuniiy) F l`k!t+

    ^ Qcii) y`u oust t`il us ft hnlk!t mcck n ycnr sfkgc hc anvc hfs lcp`sftf`k) lflk!t y`usfr0

    N Ft hnsk!t mcck n ycnr sfkgc F anvc jfkc) F mcifcvc+

    ^ F wnsk!t nsbfka nm`ut y`urs+ F wns nsbfka nm`ut Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk+N @bny+ F l`k!t bk`w whck hc anvc hfs lcp`sftf`k+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) whck lfl y`u tnib t` hfj0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nsbcl nkl nkswcrcl+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F tnib t` hfj `k nkl dd+ Hc!s jy l`gt`r) nj`ka thcr thfkas) nkl hc!s jy drfckl+W` g`uil y`u mc j`rc spcgfdfg nm`ut whck F tnibcl t` hfj nkl nm`ut whnt0

    ^ Qhck hc t`il y`u hc hnl afvck n lcp`sftf`k) wns thnt fk thc inst ycnr0

    N Ur`mnmiy w`uil hnvc mcck) mut F l`k!t rcgnii spcgfdfgniiy whck ft wns+

    ^ Qhcrc wcrc y`u whck hc mr`uaht ft up0

    Uutknj? Wnjc `mocgtf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ Qhnt lfl hc sny0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    28/164

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ Qhnt lfl y`u sny0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ Lfl y`u tcii hfj y`u!rc k`t nii`wcl t` tnib nm`ut ft0

    N F jny hnvc) mut F l`k!t spcgfdfgniiy rcjcjmcr+

    ^ V`u l`k!t rcgnii0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ K`w sfr) whnt F wns nsbfka y`u wns) F wnktcl y`u t` nssujc thnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk

    tcstfdfcl fk thfs gnsc thnt y`u bkcw Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnl pr`micjs wfth prcsgrfptf`k pnfkpfiis nkl jclfgntf`ks prf`r t` thc Lnkacr`us \ ur cklfka+

    L` y`u uklcrstnkl thnt) sfr0

    N F uklcrstnkl thnt+

    ^ L` y`u lfsputc whnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk) y`ur l`gt`r nkl drfckl) snfl thnt y`u t`il **thnt y`u lfsputc whnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk snfl0

    N \hcrc wcrc tw` `ggnsf`ks **

    ^ Wfr **

    N ** whck Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk lurfka thc t`ur t`il jc thnt hc hnl afvck Jfghnci Ongbs`kpnfkbfiicrs+ @kgc wns ndtcr thc gnkgciintf`k fk Mnkab`b) nkl hc cxpinfkcl t` jc thntJfghnci hnl hnl suracry `k hfs sgnip nkl thnt hc wns ** ft wns pnfkdui) nkl hc hnl afvckhfj pnfkbfiicrs d`r thnt+ \hnt!s whck thc gnkgciintf`k hnppckcl+ \hck thcrc wns `kc `thcrtfjc `k thc t`ur **

    ^ Wfr) thnt wnsk!t thc qucstf`k+

    Unkfsh? F!j a`fka t` nsb thc wftkcss mc fkstrugtcl t` nkswcr thc qucstf`k+

    Oulac? Vcs+ Ifstck t` thc qucstf`k+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    29/164

    ^ Wfr) y`u lflk!t sny thnt ** whnt y`u oust snfl ** fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k uklcr `nth) lfly`u sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Jfsstntcs thc prf`r tcstfj`ky+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N K`) F lflk!t+

    ^ Wfr) hns s`jcthfka `ggurrcl thnt!s rcdrcshcl ** Qns y`ur jcj`ry mcttcr nm`utthcsc cvckts whck y`u anvc y`ur lcp`sftf`k fk thfs gnsc fk Oukc `d =5>= thnk ft fs t`lny0

    N Oukc `d =5>=0 V`u a`t jc thcrc) sfr+

    ^ V`u!rc rfaht+

    N K`t d`ii`wfka y`u+

    ^ V`u anvc y`ur lcp`sftf`k Lcgcjmcr =5th) =5>=+ V`u rcjcjmcr thnt) sfr0

    N F l`+

    ^ Fs y`ur jcj`ry mcttcr t`lny thnk ft wns nm`ut thcsc cvckts `k Lcgcjmcr =5th)=5>=0

    N Qcii) F hnvc hnl n ghnkgc t` rcvfcw nii thc l`gujcktntf`k+ F hnlk!t i``bcl ntnkythfka whck F hnl jy lcp`sftf`k) s` F lflk!t rcniiy rcjcjmcr nkythfka nm`ut ft nt thctfjc F lfl jy lcp`sftf`k+ W` fs jy jcj`ry mcttcr t`lny0 Vcs) mcgnusc Fvc hnl n ghnkgct` rcvfcw ft+

    ^ Nkl 4 jcctfkas) nt icnst) wfth y`ur inwycrs fk thc inst = wccbs0

    N Fk rcvfcwfka nii `d thc l`gujckts thnt y`u prcscktcl t` jc ns wcii fk thclcp`sftf`k+

    ^ Wfr) sfkgc y`ur lcp`sftf`k) y`u snfl y`u!l hnl =5 jcctfkas wfth y`ur inwycrs) fsthnt rfaht0

    N F l`k!t thfkb **

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    30/164

    Uutknj? `mocgtf`k+ Jfsstntcs hfs **

    Oulac? Wustnfkcl+ Lflk!t sny =5+

    ^ H`w jnky jcctfkas hnvc y`u hnl sfkgc Lcgcjmcr wfth y`ur inwycrs t` rcdrcshy`ur rcg`iicgtf`k0

    Uutknj? @mocgt ns nraujcktntfvc) nkl nsbcl nkl nkswcrcl) y`ur h`k`r+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N H`w jnky jcctfkas hnvc f hnl ** nsb ft nanfk) picnsc+

    ^ Qcii) surc+ H`w jnky jcctfkas hnvc y`u hnl wfth y`ur inwycrs sfkgc y`urlcp`sftf`k0

    N Qcii) F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ J`rc thnk >50

    N Vcnh) pr`mnmiy+

    ^ J`rc thnk =50

    N F l`k!t thfkb s`+

    ^ Mctwcck >5 nkl =50 Fs thnt n dnfr cstfjntc0

    N ycs+ K`t nii `d ft wns t` rcvfcw jy lcp`sftf`k+ N i`t `d ft hnl t` l` wfth thfs gnscftscid+

    ^ Wfr) ict!s a` mngb t` thc qucstf`k) whfgh F hnvc d`ra`ttck) mut Fii rcjcjmcr ft+Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk tcstfdfcl thnt y`u ** strfbc thc qucstf`k+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    31/164

    Unkfsh? G`uil f nsb thnt ft mc rcnl mngb0

    Oulac? Vcs+ @bny+ Fd y`u gnk dfkl ft+

    Unkfsh? W` ** F np`i`afzc+

    ^ F wnkt y`u t` nssujc **

    Oulac? V u wnkt t` rc*nsb ft0

    Unkfsh? V u hnvc ft0 Ict!s a` wfth whnt F snfl mcd`rc+

    Oulac? Whc d`ukl ft+

    (thc qucstf`k fs rcnl mngb&

    Unkfsh? Fii rcphrnsc+

    ^ Wfr) F wnkt y`u t` nssujc Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk snfl thnt y`u wcrc nwnrc `d JfghnciOngbs`k!s pr`micjs wfth prcsgrfptf`k jclfgntf`ks nkl lruas prf`r t` thc ckl `d thcLnkacr`us \ ur+ L` y`u lfsputc thnt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Fjpr`pcr fjpcnghjckt+

    Oulac? F!j s`rry+ ]cstntc thc qucstf`k+

    Unkfsh? @bny+

    Oulac? Ict!s oust hnvc ft rcnl mngb+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    32/164

    Unkfsh? K`+ F gnk l` ft+ Ft!s `bny+

    ^ Wfr) F wnkt y`u t` nssujc Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth thnt y`u wcrc nwnrc`d Jfghnci Ongbs`k!s pr`micjs wfth prcsgrfptf`k lruas nkl pnfk jclfgntf`ks prf`r t` thcckl `d thc Lnkacr`us \ ur+ L` y`u lfsputc thnt0

    Uutknj? Wnjc `mocgtf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Qcii) F rcgnii `k tw` ggnsf`ks Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk tciifka jc thnt **

    ^ Cxgusc jc **

    N ** Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnl tnbck pnfkbfiicrs) mut F w`uil lfsputc bk`wfka thnt hc hnln pr`micj+

    ^ W` thc nkswcr t` thc qucstf`k fs) ycs) y`u lfsputc thnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk wns nwnrcnkl y`u wcrc nwnrc `d n pr`micj mcd`rc thc t`ur cklcl) g`rrcgt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ G`jp`ukl+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t bk`w whnt Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk wns nwnrc ** Dfkbcistcfk wns nwnrc d) mut Fwnsk!t nwnrc thnt thcrc wcrc pr`micjs+

    ^ Lfl y`u act n g`py `d Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk!s lcp`sftf`k t` rcvfcw fk thfs gnsc0

    N K`+

    ^ Hnvc y`u rcvfcwcl nky`kc!s lcp`sftf`ks `thcr thnk y`urscid0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    33/164

    N K`+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) y`u bkcw Jfghnci Ongbs`k hnl = l`gt`rs wfth hfj `k thc Lnkacr`us\`ur) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl `kc `d thc l`gt`rs wns n ackticjnk my thc knjc `d Lr+ D`rcgnst dr`jI`kl`k) g`rrcgt0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Nkl Lr+ D`rcgnst wns nk nkcsthcsf`i`afst) wnsk!t hc sfr0

    N F hnvc k` flcn whnt hc wns+

    ^ L` y`u bk`w whnt nk nkcsthcsf`i`afst fs) sfr0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk wns nis` `k thc Lnkacr`us \`ur) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+ Hc wns hfrcl t` tnbc gnrc `d thc mnkl nkl grcw+

    ^ Fs thnt n ycs) sfr0 Qns hc `k thc t`ur `r k`t0

    N Vcs sfr) hc wns `k thc t`ur+^ @bny+ Nkl y`u bk`w k`w Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk!s nk nllfgtf`k spcgfnifst) g`rrcgt0

    N Hc fs k`w+ Hc wnsk!t nt thc tfjc+ Hc wns oust n ackcrni prngtftf`kcr nt thc tfjc+

    ^ Mut hc wns `k thc t`ur) wnsk!t hc0

    N @k thc Lnkacr`us \`ur0 Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) ict!s tnib nm`ut y`ur drfcklshfp+ \hc t`ur wns fk !6= nkl !67+ H`wjnky ycnrs mcd`rc thnt hnl y`u mcck drfckls wfth thfs Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk0

    N F l`k!t bk`w thc kujmcr) mut jnky ycnrs+

    ^ =50

    N Q`uil hnvc mcck j`rc ifbc >5 `r >3+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    34/164

    ^ @bny+ W` fd wc a` mngb) thnt w`uil tnbc us t` cfthcr !8= `r !11 thnt y`u!l mcckdrfckls wfth hfj nt thnt tfjc) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcnh+ Q`uil mc s`jcwhcrc fk thcrc+

    ^ @bny+ W` thnt ns `d t`lny) thck) thnt w`uil mc 73 ycnrs y`u nii hnvc mcck drfckls0

    N W`jcthfka ifbc thnt+

    ^ Qcii) y`u l` s`gfni thfkas t`acthcr) l`k!t y`u sfr0

    N @ggnsf`kniiy+

    ^ V`u a` sbffka t`acthcr0

    N @ggnsf`kniiy+

    ^ Nkl Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk!s mr`thcr uscl t` w`rb wfth y`u) lflk!t hc sfr0

    N Hc w`rbcl d`r Jnknacjckt 7+

    ^ Lfl hc w`rb wfth y`u) sfr0

    N @k > `r = `ggnsf`ks) F mcifcvc F lfl w`rb wfth hfj+

    ^ W` fs thnt n ycs0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl sfr) lfl Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk tcii y`u thnt lurfka thc Lnkacr`us \`ur ** nm`utJfghnci Ongbs`ks `pfntc nllfgtf`k0

    N K`) sfr+

    ^ K`w F wnkt t` a` t` y`ur ** dfrst ict!s a` t` lcp`sftf`k+ F wnkt t` stnrt wfth thnt+

    (Unkfsh pinys vflc` gifp `d A`kanwnrc lcp`sftf`k&?

    ^ Lfl y`u cvcr tnib t` Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk nm`ut whcthcr hc trcntcl Jfghnci

    Ongbs`k `k thc Lnkacr`us \`ur0

    N Hc w`uilk!t tnib nm`ut thnt studd+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    35/164

    Unkfsh? \hnt wns y`ur tcstfj`ky uklcr `nth fk thfs gnsc) rfaht sfr0

    A`kanwnrc? Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl lfl y`u tcii thc truth fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k) sfr0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    Uutknj? V ur h`k`r) thnt **

    Oulac? H`il `k+ \hcrc!s nk mocgtf`k+

    Uutknj? \hnt!s mcck g`rrcgtcl+ \hcrc wns n g`rrcgtcl p`rtf`k+

    Unkfsh? Fii act t` thnt+

    Uutknj? F!j supp`scl t` rcnl ft nt **

    Unkfsh? K`) k`) y`u!rc k`t+ \hnt!s k`t h`w ft w`rbs+

    Wtcmmfks? V ur h`k`r) thc ruic fk g`rrcgtcl tcstfj`ky fs thnt ft fs rcnl ns s``k ns thc

    tcstfj`ky fs g`jpictcl+ Hc gnk thck tcstfdy nm`ut ft+

    Unkfsh? \hnt!s k`t thc ruic+ \hcrc!s k` sugh ruic+ Ict!s scc thc ruic+ Ict!s i``b nt ft+

    Oulac? Ict!s a` t` sflcmnr+

    Wflcmnr?

    Oulac? @bny+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    36/164

    Unkfsh? @bny+ F!j a`fka t` fjpcngh hfj k`w wfth hfs ghnkac+ G`uksci snfl thcrc!s n ruicthnt nii`ws thnt+ \hcrc fs k` sugh ruic+ Qhnt ruic fs thnt0

    Wtcmmfks? F l`k!t bk`w thc ruic `ddhnkl+ \hc ruic fs thnt whck y`u g`rrcgt tcstfj`ky)

    y`ur g`rrcgtcl tcstfj`ky fs y`ur tcstfj`ky+ Fk cvcry trfni Fvc cvcr mcck fk Fvc hnl ftniwnys rcnl pr`jptiy ndtcr mcgnusc ft fs thc tcstfj`ky+ Fk `thcr w`rls) whnt wns snfl ntthc lcp`sftf`k fs k` i`kacr thc tcstfj`ky+

    G`uksci) `d g`ursc) fs drcc t` qucstf`k `k ft) mut ft fs ** thc tcstfj`ky fs thc g`rrcgtf`k) thccrrntn fs thc tcstfj`ky+ W` ft sh`uil mc rcnl fjjclfntciy ndtcr) k`t ns ** fk cvcrycxpcrfckgc Fvc cvcr hnl) mcgnusc ft fs fk dngt thc tcstfj`ky+ Nkl thck g`uksci) `mvf`usiy)gnk nsb whntcvcr qucstf`k hc wnkts `k ft+

    Oulac? @bny+ W` y`ur `mocgtf`k fs hc sh`uil ** Uinfktfdds! g`uksci sh`uil **

    Wtcmmfks? Fd thcrc!s g`rrcgtcl tcstfj`ky) y`ur h`k`r) thnt crrntn sh`uil mc rcnlfjjclfntciy ndtcr thc pinyfka `d tcstfj`ky+

    Oulac? @bny+

    Wtcmmfks? Nkl thck nsb whntcvcr qucstf`ks hc wnkts nkl a` t` t`wk `k ft+

    Unkfsh? F!j a`fka t` rcnl ft+

    Oulac? Nii rfaht+ Hc snfl hc!s a`fka t` rcnl ft+

    Wtcmmfks? Vcs) y`ur h`k`r+ Ft hns t` mc rcnl fjjclfntciy) k`t prf`r t` mcfka qucstf`kcl `kft+

    Unkfsh? \hcrc!s k` ruic thnt snys thnt) y`ur h`k`r+

    Oulac? Qcii) F!j a`fka t` rcqufrc ft fk thc fktcrcst `d dnfrkcss) `bny0 ]cnl ft rfahtndtcrwnrls+

    Unkfsh? Ict Jr+ Uutknj stnkl up nkl rcnl ft) nkl thck Fii qucstf`k hfj nm`ut ft+

    Oulac? Nii rfaht+ Jr+ Uutknj) rcnl ft whck **

    Wtcmmfks? whck thc our`r fs mngb dr j thc mnthr``j+

    Oulac? Vcnh+

    (`pck g`urt rcsujcs&

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    37/164

    Oulac? @bny+ Ict!s g`ktfkuc+

    Unkfsh? @bny) y`ur h`k`r+ W` t` jnbc ft gicnr) F!j a`fka t` piny thfs) nkl thck g`ukscignk rcnl whntcvcr hc wnkts t` rcnl+ W` ict!s a` mngb nkl piny thnt s` wc gnk jnbc thcghnkac+

    Oulac? Oust s` ft!s gicnr) g`uksci d`r Uinfktfdds fs a`fka t` piny thc lcp`sftf`k tcstfj`ky)nkl g`uksci d`r Lcdcklnkts fs a`fka t` rcnl thc g`rrcgtf`k thnt wns jnlc ndtcr thclcp`sftf`k t` thc lcp`sftf`k+

    (Unkfsh pinys vflc` gifp `d A`kanwnrc lcp`sftf`k&?

    ^ Lfl y`u cvcr tnib t` Lr+ Dfkbcistcfk nm`ut whcthcr hc trcntcl Jfghnci

    Ongbs`k `k thc Lnkacr`us \`ur0

    N Hc w`uilk!t tnib nm`ut thnt studd+

    Uutknj? \hc g`rrcgtf`k fs? Vcs) hc snfl hc `ggnsf`kniiy trcntcl Jfghnci Ongbs`k `k thcLnkacr`us \`ur+

    Unkfsh? `bny+ Nkl f!l ifbc t` jnrb thnt+ Nkl F wnkt t` qucstf`k thc wftkcss nm`ut thnt+

    ^ Wfr) whnt wns thc lntc `d y`ur lcp`sftf`k0 L` y`u rcjcjmcr0N F l`k!t+

    ^ Lcgcjmcr =5) =5>=) `bny0 F!j oust tciifka y`u thnt+ V`u gnk nggcpt thnt+

    N F!ii tnbc y`ur w`rl d`r ft+

    ^ @bny+ K`w sfr) F!l ifbc t` sh`w y`u ** my thc wny) lfl y`u wrftc fk y`ur

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    38/164

    lcp`sftf`k nky ghnkacs0

    N Lfl F ** lfl F wrftc0

    ^ Vcs+ Ifbc thc fkstrugtf`ks thnt y`u wcrc afvck t` wrftc nky ghnkacs thnt y`u hnl

    fk thc lcp`sftf`k+ Lfl y`u l` thnt) sfr0

    N F lfsgusscl ft wfth jy ntt`rkcy+ F mcifcvc jy ntt`rkcy wr`tc thcj+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) ict!s i``b nt ft+ Ict!s i``b nt cxhfmft) `bny0

    Oulac? F!j s`rry+ G`uksci) lfl y`u oust nll thnt t` y`ur cxhfmft ifst0

    Unkfsh? Ft!s nttnghcl t` hfs lcp`sftf`k+

    Oulac? K`) mut whnt F!j snyfka fs) thfs fs k`w n trfni cxhfmft0

    Unkfsh? Vcs) y`ur h`k`r) thnt g`uksci mr`uaht+

    Oulac? @bny+

    (Unkfsh hns thc cxhfmft ** n icttcr wfth lcp`sftf`k g`rrcgtf`ks ** jnrbcl d`r

    flcktfdfgntf`k&

    ^ K`w) thfs ** hnvc y`u cvcr scck thfs icttcr) sfr0

    N Gnk F hnvc n g`py `d ft0

    ^ V`u gcrtnfkiy gnk+ (afvcs A`kanwnrc n g`py&+

    N (rcnlfka l`gujckt&

    ^ Hnvc y`u cvcr scck thnt icttcr mcd`rc0

    N Vcs+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    39/164

    ^ @bny+ Qhck lfl y`u scc ft0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii spcgfdfgniiy whck F snw ft+

    ^ @bny+ H`w nm`ut n ycnr0 Lfl y`u scc ft fk =5>70

    N Ur`mnmiy+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) ict!s i``b+ Dfrst) thfs fs wrfttck my @Jcivcky $ Jycrs+ Nrc th`scy`ur inwycrs0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl ft!s nllrcsscl t` Uinfktfdds! g`uksci+ Nkl sfr) y`ur lcp`sftf`k wns tnbck `kLcgcjmcr =5th) nkl thck `k Oukc >=th y`ur inwycr wr`tc ghnkacs t` y`ur lcp`sftf`k)g`rrcgt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k nm`ut Oukc >=th+

    Oulac? @bny+ Wustnfkcl+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) ft snys hcrc? Unui a`kanwnrc hns rcvfcwcl hfs lcp`sftf`k tnbck `kOukc >=th) =5>=+

    Fs thnt whck y`ur lcp`sftf`k wns tnbck) sfr0

    N Ft wns fk Lcgcjmcr+

    ^ Lfl y`u rcvfcw thfs t` scc whcthcr ft wns truc0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl lfl y`u ** y`u jnlc thcsc ghnkacs ndtcr hnvfka jcctfkas wfth y`urinwycrs) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Lfl y`u sfak thcsc ghnkacs nt nky tfjc) sfr0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    40/164

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ Qcii) ict!s i``b nt thc inst pnac t` scc wh` sfakcl thcsc ghnkacs+

    Unkfsh? A` t` thc pnac mcd`rc thnt+

    ^ Qh` sfakcl thcsc ghnkacs d`r y`u) sfr0

    N Jy inwycr+ Mut ngg`rlfka t` thfs) thcrc!s ** jy sfaknturc pnac fs ckgi`scl) s` Fjust hnvc sfakcl ft ns wcii+

    ^ Lfl y`u cvcr wrftc `ut thc ghnkacs y`urscid) sfr) nt nky tfjc0

    N K`+ F lfsgusscl ft wfth jy inwycr+

    ^ Jy qucstf`k wns) lfl y`u cvcr wrftc thcj `ut nkl sny? F ghnkac thfs) F ghnkacthfs) F ghnkac thnt0

    Lfl y`u cvcr l` thnt) sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nsbcl nkl nkswcrcl+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t rcgnii l`fka thnt+

    ^ H`w jnky tfjcs lfl y`u rcnl y`ur lcp`sftf`k mcd`rc y`u ghnkacl ft0

    N @kgc+

    ^ Nkl whcrc wcrc y`u whck y`u rcnl y`ur lcp`sftf`k0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    41/164

    ^ Qhck y`u rcnl ft) lfl y`u wrftc `ut nky ghnkacs y`u wnktcl t` jnbc nkl mrfkathcj t` y`ur inwycr0N F l`k!t rcgnii l`fka thnt+

    ^ @bny+ W` k`w ft!s y`ur tcstfj`ky uklcr `nth thnt Jr+ ** `r) cxgusc jc ** Lr+

    Dfkbcistcfk lfl tcii y`u nm`ut Jfghnci Ongbs`k nkl hfj trcntfka hfj) g`rrcgt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nraujcktntfvc+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Hc lfl tcii jc hc trcntcl hfj `k = ggnsf`ks+

    ^ Mut fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k uklcr `nth) y`u snfl hc t`il y`u) k`) nkl hc w`uil kcvcrtnib nm`ut thnt) g`rrcgt0

    N F snfl hc lflk!t tnib nm`ut thnt+

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    ^ Wfr) y`u uklcrst``l whck y`u anvc y`ur lcp`sftf`k) y`u wcrc uklcr `nth) thcsnjc ns y`u nrc `k thfs wftkcss stnkl) rfaht0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Nkl y`u t`il jc cnrifcr) y`u t`il thc truth fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k) rfaht0

    N F lfl+

    ^ K`w sfr) wns ft n mfa lcni d`r NCA Ifvc t` act Jfghnci Ongbs`k t` l` thfs t`ur0

    N F!l sny s`) ycs+

    ^ Qcii) hnl y`u cvcr hnl n mfaacr nrtfst l`fka n t`ur nt thnt tfjc) =5560

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    42/164

    N Ur`mnmiy k`t+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii sfr) y`u tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth thnt Jfghnci Ongbs`k wns thc mfaacst nrtfst`d hfs crn) g`rrcgt0

    N F mcifcvc hc wns+

    ^ Nkl y`u nis` snfl thnt hc g`uil hnvc mcck thc mfaacst nrtfst `d nii tfjc) g`rrcgt0

    N F mcifcvc hc wns+

    ^ W` wns thnt n mfa lcni) t` act thc mfaacst nrtfst `d hfs crn) nkl thc mfaacst nrtfst `dnii tfjc) t` g`jc wfth y`ur g`jpnky0

    N Vcs) ft wns+ F mcifcvc F oust snfl thnt+

    ^ Nkl sfr) wnsk!t Ifvc Kntf`k nt thc tfjc thc K`+ > g`kgcrt pr`j`tcr fk thc w`ril0

    N \hcy stfii nrc+

    ^ Hnvc y`u `r Jr+ Uhfiifps) t` y`ur bk`wiclac) cvcr rcdcrrcl t` thcj ns thc 855*p`ukl a`rfiin thnt y`u!rc tryfka t` gntgh0

    N F kcvcr rcdcrrcl t` thcj ns thnt+

    ^ Hnvc y`u hcnrl Jr+ Uhfiifps rcdcr t` thcj ns thnt0

    N K`+

    ^ @bny+ Wfr k`w) t` act Jfghnci Ongbs`k) y`u wcrck!t niwnys h`kcst wfth hfj) wcrcy`u sfr0

    N F mcifcvc F niwnys wns+

    ^ V`u wcrc niwnys h`kcst wfth Jfghnci Ongbs`k whck tryfka t` act hfj t` sfak thcg`ktrngt) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcnh) F mcifcvc F wns+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s i``b nt cxhfmft ** n Wcptcjmcr =4th) =558 c*jnfi+ (afvcs n g`py&

    N (rcnlfka l`gujckt&

    ^ Qhck y`u!rc rcnly) tcii jc) Jr+ A`kanwnrc+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    43/164

    Unkfsh? F l`k!t thfkb thfs fs fk cvflckgc) y`ur h`k`r) s` F w`k!t put thfs up+

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ V`u rcnl ft0N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ V`u rcnl thnt wfth thc inwycrs prcpnrfka t` tcstfdy hcrc) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii thfs `kc+

    ^ Qcii) y`u snfl y`u rcvfcwcl nii thc l`gujckts thnt wcrc sh`wk t` y`u fk y`urlcp`sftf`k) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N Vcnh+

    ^ Nkl thfs wns sh`wk t` y`u fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k uklcr `nth) wnsk!t ft sfr0

    N \hcrc!s n mukgh `d studd fk thc mngb hcrc F!vc kcvcr scck mcd`rc+

    ^ Nii rfaht+ Qcii) ict!s stnrt wfth thc lcp`sftf`k+ Unacs >43 t` >41+

    N F l`k!t scc th`sc kujmcrs k hcrc) sfr+^ Qhnt!s thnt0N F l`k!t scc th`sc kujmcrs `k hcrc+

    ^ \hcy!rc k`t+

    N @h) `bny+

    (Unkfsh pinys vflc` gifp `d A`kanwnrc lcp`sftf`k&?

    ^ @bny+ Wfr) s` turkfka t` thc =kl pnac) thc c*jnfi thnt snys dr`j Unui

    A`kanwnrc t` ]nkly Uhfiifps nkl \fj **

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    44/164

    Unkfsh? \hfs fs thc snjc cxhfmft) 7>*> thr`uah 7>*1) oust d`r ginrfty+ Nkl fd y`u wnkt t`d`ii`w ni`ka fk y`ur cxhfmft) y`u gnk sfr+

    Uutknj? Hc oust snfl? thc snjc cxhfmft+ Ft!s k`t thc snjc+ \hc pnacs **

    Jr+ Unkfsh? F snfl thc lcp`sftf`k kujmcrs wcrc k`t k thc cxhfmft) mcgnusc thcy!rc

    k`t+

    Oulac? @bny+ H`il `k+ Ict!s oust vcrfdy ft!s thc snjc cxhfmft wc!rc rcdcrrfka t`+

    Unkfsh? Ft fs+

    V`u bk`w whnt0 L` wc hnvc Jr+ A`kanwnrc!s lcp`sftf`k hcrc0

    Wtcmmfks? \hc lcp` fs n sh`rtcr vcrsf`k+

    ^ @bny) Jr+ A`kanwnrc+ Qns thnt y`ur lcp`sftf`k0 (sh`ws l`gujckt&V`u l`k!t kccl t` rcnl thc wh`ic thfka+ \hnt!s `bny+

    N (rcnlfka l`gujckt& Vcs) sfr+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) nrc thcsc thc cxhfmfts0 ]cjcjmcr thc cxhfmfts y`u rcnl wfth thcinwycrs prcpnrfka0 ]cjcjmcr thnt) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ F!j k`t tryfka t` act fk y`ur spngc) `bny0

    Unkfsh? Qhnt cxhfmft kujmcr fs ft t` thc lcp`0

    M`yic? 7>+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    45/164

    Unkfsh? \` thc lcp`0

    M`yic? F mcifcvc s`+ @h) t` thc lcp`0 >5 t` thc lcp`+ \ thc trfni ** cxhfmft 7>+

    ^ K`w) gnk y`u g`kdfrj d`r us) Jr+ A`kanwnrc) fs thnt thc cxhfmft y`u wcrc sh`wknt y`ur lcp`sftf`k0

    N Vcs+

    Unkfsh? @bny+ K`w gnk wc piny ft+

    Uutknj? Cxgusc jc+ Nrc y`u snyfka thnt thc tw` cxhfmfts) thc `kc hc!s oust afvck

    y`u) nkl thc `kc fk thcrc hns thc nttnghjckt `k thc ckl0

    A`kanwnrc? K`+ \hfs `kc fsk!t thc snjc ns thnt `kc+

    Uutknj? \hc qucstf`k hc oust nsbcl fs whcthcr thnt wns hfs cxhfmft nt thc lcp` hc

    i``bcl nt+ Ft!s k`t thc snjc+

    Unkfsh? Ft!s thc snjc dfrst tw` pnacs+ \hnt!s nii F!j nsbfka nm`ut nt thfs tfjc+

    Oulac? @bny+ \hc dfrst tw` pnacs nrc thc snjc+ Ict!s a` wfth thnt+

    Uutknj? \hnkb y`u) y`ur h`k`r+

    Unkfsh? ict!s hcnr whnt y`u snfl nm`ut ft uklcr `nth nt y`ur lcp`sftf`k+

    (Unkfsh pinys vflc` gifp `d A`kanwnrc lcp`sftf`k&?

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    46/164

    ^ W` turkfka t thc scg`kl pnac) thc c*jnfi thnt snys dr`j Unui A`kanwnrc t

    ]nkly Uhfiifps nkl \fj Icfwcbc) gg O`hk Jcaick+

    L` y`u scc thnt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thfs c*jnfi nppcnrcl t` mc sckt `k Drflny) Wcptcjmcr =4th) nt >5?51 ** F!j

    s`rry+ Drflny) Wcptcjmcr =4th) =558) nt >5?51 pj) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Lfl y`u sckl thfs c*jnfi0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii wrftfka thfs+

    ^ Qcii) fk rcnlfka ft) l`cs ft rcdrcsh y`ur rcg`iicgtf k nm`ut thc g`ktckt d thc c*

    jnfi0

    N K`t rcniiy+

    ^ @bny+ K`w) ict!s a` l`wk t thc >) =) 7 ** thc thfrl ** thc thfrl pnrnarnph) thc

    inst scktckgc `d thc thfrl pnrnarnph `d y`ur c*jnfi+

    Ft snys? Kct t` Jfbcy) >7= Jfiif`k+

    L` y`u scc thnt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl l` y`u bk`w thc lfddcrckgc mctwcck kct nkl ar`ss0

    N Wurc+

    ^ Qhnt!s thc lfddcrckgc0

    N Ar`ss fs ar`ss rcvckucs+ Kct fs whnt!s icdt ndtcr nii thc cxpckscs nrc pnfl+

    ^ W` ar`ss fs thc t`p*ifkc kujmcr thnt g`jcs fk) nkl thck kct fs whnt!s icdt `vcr

    ndtcr studd fs pnfl `ut) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ \hck ict!s a` t` thc d`urth pnrnarnph+ Nkl y`u stcksfmiy wr tc fk thfs

    c*jnfi?

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    47/164

    Ft!s n mfa kujmcr) mut thfs fs k`t n kujmcr JO wfii wnkt t` hcnr+ Hc thfkbs hc fs s`

    jugh mfaacr thnk thnt+ Fd wc usc sh`w fkg`jc) ft!s `vcr n qunrtcr `d n mfiif`k l`iinrs+

    Hfs kct shnrc w`rbs `ut t` mc 35# ndtcr i`gni) vckuc nkl nlvcrtfsfka g`sts) whfgh fs

    quftc a``l+ Hfs ar`ss wfii nppr`ngh hnid n mfiif`k l`iinrs+ Jnymc ar`ss fs n mcttcr

    kujmcr t` thr`w nr`ukl fd wc kccl t` usc kujmcrs wfth Jfbcy ifstckfka+

    Lfl F rcnl thnt g`rrcgtiy0

    N Vcs+

    ^ W` fk thfs c*jnfi fk =558) wcrc y`u jnbfka n pink wfth ]nkly Uhfiifps nkl

    \fj Icfwcbc nkl O`hk Jcaick) nt icnst) `k n gg mnsfs) t` d``i Jfghnci fkt` thfkbfka

    hc wns a`fka t` jnbc j`rc j`kcy thnk hc rcniiy wns `k thc t`ur0

    N F l`k!t bk`w+ F l`k!t rcgnii wrftfka thfs c*jnfi+

    Uutknj? Nkl) y`ur h`k`r) thcrc!s n g`rrcgtf`k t` thnt+

    Oulac? @bny+ Fd thcrc!s n g`rrcgtf`k **

    Uutknj? Ft snys **

    Oulac? V`u kccl t` spcnb up+

    Uutknj? W`rry+ F kcvcr trfcl ** whcrc nj f0 ** F kcvcr trfcl t` d``i Jfghnci+ H`wcvcr) Fl`k!t rcgnii wrftfka thfs c*jnfi+

    ^ W` sfr) kgc nanfk) ndtcr y`u tcstfdfcl uklcr `nth fk Lcgcjmcr) y`u jct wfth y`urinwycr) y`ur inwycr wr`tc up s`jc ghnkacs) sfakcl thcj nkl sckt thcj `ut) g`rrcgt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Jfsstntcs thc tcstfj`ky) y`ur h`k`r+

    Oulac? Wustnfkcl+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    48/164

    ^ Wfr) lfl y`u cvcr wrftc `ut nky ghnkacs t` y`ur lcp`sftf`k0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii wrftfka `ut ghnkacs+

    ^ L` y`u bk`w nky`kc thnt wr`tc `ut nky ghnkacs t` y`ur lcp`sftf`k `thcr thnky`ur inwycr0

    N K`+

    ^ W` ndtcr y`ur lcp`sftf`k wns tnbck) y`u jct wfth y`ur inwycr) g`rrcgt0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Lfl y`u jcct ** rcnl thc lcp`sftf`k mcd`rc y`u wckt t` thc inwycr!s `ddfgc t` jcctwfth thcj0N Vcs+

    ^ W` whck y`u hnl rcnl ft) lfl y`u jnbc nky k`tcs ** wrftc l`wk k`tcs `d whnt y`uwnktcl t` g`rrcgt0

    N F oust trfcl t` rcjcjmcr thc thfkas thnt F lflk!t narcc wfth+

    ^ Wfr **

    N F lflk!t wrftc nky k`tcs+

    ^ @bny+ W` y`u oust rcjcjmcrcl ** y`u hnvc n rcniiy a``l jcj`ry) rfaht0

    N Ft!s nii rfaht+

    ^ W` y`u rcjcjmcrcl nii `d thc ghnkacs thnt y`u wnktcl t` ghnkac) nkl y`u wckt t`thc inwycr) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thck thc inwycr wr`tc nii `d thc ghnkacs) sfakcl thc icttcr) nkl sckt ft `ut d`ry`u) rfaht0

    N F mcifcvc F nis` sfakcl ft+

    ^ @bny+ H`w jnky pnacs wns y`ur lcp`sftf`k) sfr0

    N G`upic huklrcl+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    49/164

    ^ Nkl h`w jnky h`urs lfl ft inst d`r0

    N Nii lny+

    ^ Nkl thck y`u rcjcjmcrcl fk y`ur jfkl) wfth`ut tnbfka nky k`tcs) cvcry p`rtf`k`d thnt lcp`sftf`k thnt wns fknggurntc mcd`rc y`u wckt t` jcct wfth thc inwycrs) rfaht0

    N \hc studd thnt F rcjcjmcrcl) ycs+

    ^ Qcii) k`+ Cvcry ghnkac wns y`ur ghnkac) k`t thc inwycr!s) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ W` y`u rcjcjmcrcl nii th`sc fk y`ur jfkl+ Ndtcr rcnlfka ft) y`u bcpt ft up fk y`urjfkl) nkl y`u wckt nkl t`il y`ur inwycrs? \hcsc nrc thc ghnkacs F wnkt t` jnbc+ ]faht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Kcvcr wr`tc ft l`wk nkywhcrc) rfaht0

    N K`+

    ^ W` y`u hnvc n vcry a``l jcj`ry) fs thnt rfaht sfr0

    N Ft!s nii rfaht+

    ^ Mut y`u l`k!t rcjcjmcr jnky `d thcsc c*jnfis thnt y`u wr`tc) l` y`u sfr0

    N K`+ \h`sc c*jnfis wcrc ** F!l wrfttck th`sc c*jnfis 7 >/= ycnrs mcd`rc) nkl F wnsl`fka huklrcls `d c*jnfis n lny+ W` F lflk!t try t` rcdrcsh jy jcj`ry whck F wckt t` thclcp`sftf`k+ F oust wckt fk nkl tcstfdfcl nm`ut whnt F ngtuniiy rcjcjmcrcl+

    ^ Wfr) y`u spckt tw` lnys wfth y`ur inwycrs prcpnrfka d`r thc lcp`sftf`k mcd`rc y`uwckt t` ft) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N F l`k!t thfkb F spckt thnt bfkl `d tfjc prcpnrfka) k`+

    ^ \cii us whnt y`u rcgnii ns t` h`w i`ka y`u spckt prcpnrfka wfth y`ur inwycrs d`ry`ur lcp`sftf`k uklcr `nth fk thfs gnsc) sfr+

    N F l`k!t rcgnii spcgfdfgniiy+ Ft wns oust n g`upic `d tfjcs d`r n g`upic h`urs+

    ^ @bny+ W` k`w fs n g`upic =) 70 H`w jnky tfjcs0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii spcgfdfgniiy h`w jnky tfjcs+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    50/164

    ^ @bny+ W` y`u l`k!t rcgnii h`w jnky tfjcs y`u jct+ H`w jnky h`urs lfl y`ujcct d`r cngh tfjc0

    N N g`upic h`urs+

    ^ W` whnt!s n g`upic0 \w` `r thrcc0

    N Vcnh+ G`upic fs ** F w`uil sny tw` fs n g`upic+

    ^ @bny+ W` y`u jct d`r d`ur h`urs wfth y`ur inwycrs) nt icnst) rfaht0

    N \hnt!s jy rcg`iicgtf`k+

    ^ K`w sfr) F wnkt t` a` t` thnt c*jnfi) K`+ 7>*>) thc dfrst pnac+

    Dfrst `d nii) Jr+ Icfwcbc wh` y`u sckt thnt c*jnfi t` ** hc wns thc GC@ `d NCA) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl Jr+ Jcaick wns thc G`*GC@+ Qfth y`u `d y`ur lfvfsf`k `d NCA) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl Jr+ Uhfiifps wns thc GC@ `d NCA Ifvc) rfaht0N Vcs+

    ^ W` w`uil y`u g`ksflcr thnt thc t`p jnknacjckt `d thc g`jpnky thnt y`u wcrcscklfka thfs c*jnfi t`0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s i``b nt thc dfrst pnrnarnph+ V`u snfl?

    Qc piny `ut 5= I`kl`k+ Qh` bk`ws0 75 sh`ws) jnymc+ \hck a` piny `ut Mcrifk nkl`thcr Cur`pcnk gcktcrs) ns jnky ns wc gnk act+ \nbc n mrcnb) shfp thc acnr my scn drcfaht(ghcnpcst wny&) thck piny `ut thc kcxt g`ktfkckt+ Qc!ii mc nii nrckns fk Njcrfgn) Cur`pc)Nustrnifn stnlfujs fk s`jc pingcs whcrc ft jnbcs scksc+ Qc dfkfsh fk Njcrfgn+

    Lfl y`u wrftc thnt) sfr0

    N F mcifcvc F lfl) sfr+

    ^ Qns thnt pnrt `d thc fkftfni pink d`r thc Jfghnci Ongbs`k t`ur0

    N Qcii) thfs wns i`ka mcd`rc wc sfakcl n lcni wfth Jfghnci+ \hfs wns n p`tcktfni

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    51/164

    pink `d h`w thfs g`uil w`rb+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl thck ft snys ** y`u rcdcr hcrc t` Jr+ Nksghutz+

    Unkfsh? A` mngb+ A` up n ifttic j`rc+

    ^ V`u scc ft) sfr0 Unac >) 7>*>+

    N F scc ft+

    ^ Jr+ Nksghutz wns n a``l drfckl wfth Jr+ \`j Mnrrngb) g`rrcgt0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F hnvc k` flcn+

    ^ @bny+ Lfl Jr+ Mnrrngb ** wcii) lfl y`u wrftc hcrc ** ict!s i``b nt thc dfrst thfka+Jr+ Icfwcbc) hc fs thc GC@) rfaht ** `d cvcrythfka0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s a` ** ict!s j`vc thr`uah thnt+

    K`w sfr) thc kcxt p`fkt F wnkt t` sh`w y`u+ Wfr) cxhfmft ==15+

    Unkfsh? \hnt!s n lfddcrckt `kc thnk thnt+

    ^ Fs thnt nk c*jnfi thnt y`u sckt) sfr0 (sh`ws cjnfi&

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    52/164

    N (rcnlfka l`gujckt&

    ^ H`w y`u l`fka) Jr+ A`kanwnrc0

    N ]cnlfka ft k`w) sfr+

    ^ F oust nsbcl y`u fd y`u sckt ft+

    Oulac? Ict hfj rcnl ft+

    Unkfsh? @bny+ Nii rfaht+

    ^ A` nhcnl+

    N @bny) sfr+

    ^ Lfl y`u rcnl ft0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ Lfl y`u sckl ft0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii scklfka ft) mut f pr`mnmiy lfl) ycnh+^ Qcii) ft!s a`t y`ur knjc `k ft) l`csk!t ft0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Hnvc y`u cxpcrfckgcl pr`micjs wfth pc`pic ** flcktfty thcdt0 Uc`pic stcnifkay`ur c*jnfis nkl scklfka `ut c*jnfis uklcr y`ur knjc0

    N K`+ K`t yct) nkywny+

    Unkfsh? Ict!s put ft up+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    53/164

    ^ K`w) thfs fs nk c*jnfi dr`j y`u t` Jr+ Uhfiifps) thc GC@ `d NCA Ifvc) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thfs fs whcrc y`u wnkt t` try t` rcgruft Jr+ Ongbs`k `vcr t` NCA Ifvc nkl k`tict Ifvc Kntf`k act thfs t`ur) mcgnusc ft!s n mfa lcni) rfaht0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t thfkb ft!s n qucstf`k `d n g`jpctftf`k fk thnt scksc+ F!j oust tnibfka nm`utwhnt wc w`uil l`) nkl h`w wc sh`uil l` ft+ F lfl jcktf`k Ifvc Kntf`k+

    ^ Qcii) y`u snfl? Qc kccl t` stnrt nt thc duklnjcktnis+ H`w l` wc l` ft vcrsus h`wl`cs Ifvc Kntf`k l` ft+

    Fs thnt rfaht) sfr0

    N Vcnh+

    ^ Nkl thnt!s s` y`u g`uil try t` act Jr+ Ongbs`k t` l` thfs) mcgnusc y`u t`il us thfsg`uil mc thc mfaacst stnr cvcr thnt y`u g`uil act) nkl thnt wns n mfa lcni) rfaht0

    N Ft wns n mfa lcni+

    ^ Nkl y`u!rc rcnlfka k`tcs dr`j n jcctfka wfth Lr+ \`hjc) rfaht0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u t``b thc k`tcs nt thc jcctfka) lflk!t y`u sfr0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    54/164

    N F l`k!t rcgnii tnbfka k`tcs+

    ^ Ft snys? K`tcs d`r Lr+ \`hjc jcctfka+

    Lfl F rcnl thnt rfaht) sfr0

    N Vcs) y`u lfl+

    ^ \hcsc nrc y`ur k`tcs t` prcpnrc d`r thc jcctfka wfth Lr+ \`hjc) nrck!t thcy sfr0

    N Vcnh) F aucss s`+

    ^ V`u aucss s`+ \hcy nrc+

    N \` jc ft!s k`t rcniiy gicnr fd thfs fs n prcpnrntf`k d`r thc jcctfka `r thcsc nrc k`tcs

    ndtcr wc hnl nircnly lfsgusscl ft+

    ^ @bny+ Ft!s k`t y`ur sh`ppfka ifst) fs ft0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nraujcktntfvc) y`ur h`k`r+

    Oulac? Wustnfkcl+

    ^ \hcsc nrc y`ur k`tcs d`r n jcctfka) `bny) nkl y`u gnk!t tcii us) nanfk) whcthcr ftwns mcd`rc thc jcctfka `r ndtcr thc jcctfka) rfaht0

    N F gnk!t tcii dr`j thfs+

    ^ L`k!t y`u usuniiy wrftc) whck ft!s nm`ut thc jcctfka? K`tcs dr`j Lr+ \`hjcjcctfka ** k`t? K`tcs d`r Lr+ \ hjc jcctfka0

    N F l`k!t ** F!j k`t gicnr) sfr) k whcthcr ** whnt thfs wns) whcthcr ft!s mcd`rc `r ndtcr)mut ** picnsc+

    ^ Wfr) whck y`u wrftc s`jcthfka) y`u sny? thfs fs d`r s`jcthfka ** `r? thfs fs dr`j+D`r jcnks fk thc duturc+ Dr`j jcnks fk thc pnst) rfaht0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    55/164

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nraujcktntfvc+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F l`k!t bk`w ** F!j k`t surc+ Fd y`u!rc nsbfka jc fd F!j surc) F!j k`t surc+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s tnbc n i``b+ ** @bny+ Ict!s scc whnt y`u wr`tc `ut?

    Qc nrc ** cxgusc jc+

    \hc lfddcrckgc mctwcck Ifvc Kntf`k ** whfgh fs whnt fk jcnks) rfaht0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ (g`ktfkucs rcnlfka& ** nkl us fs huac+ Qc nrc nrtfst*mnscl) thcy nrc Qnii Wtrcctlrfvck+

    ]faht0 Lfl F rcnl thnt rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ \hfs fs `kc `d thc duklnjcktnis thnt y`u!rc stnrtfka nt) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s i``b nt thc kcxt `kc?

    (g`ktfkucs rcnlfka& ** Qc nrc sjnrt pc`pic+ Qc nrc g`jpictciy h`kcst nkl trnkspnrcktwfth cvcrythfka wc l`+ \hnt!s h`w Uhfi wnkts ft+

    \hnt!s Jr+ Nksghutz) rfaht0

    N F mcifcvc s`) ycs+

    ^ W` fd y`u wcrc jfsicnlfka nky`kc) jnbfka nky jfsstntcjckts t` nky`kc) thntw`uilk!t mc h`kcst nkl trnkspnrckt) w`uil ft sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ Nkl thnt w`uil mc g`ktrnry t` whnt thc a`nis nrc supp`scl t` mc d`r y`urg`jpnky) g`rrcgt0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    56/164

    N Vcs+

    ^ D`r cxnjpic) y`u w`uil kcvcr tcii s`jc`kc thnt wns g`kgcrkcl nm`ut Jr+Ongbs`k!s hcnith? Hcy) l`k!t w`rry+ Qc ghcgb cvcry`kc `ut ** fd thnt wnsk!t truc) w`uil

    y`u sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Qc w`uilk!t wnkt t` sny nkythfka thnt wnsk!t truc+

    ^ ]faht+ Mcgnusc y`u!rc k`t mcfka trnkspnrckt nkl h`kcst) nkl thnt!s fjpr`pcr) fsk!tft sfr0

    N Qc try t` mc h`kcst nkl trnkspnrckt fk `ur musfkcss+

    ^ Mut fd y`u!rc k`t) thck thnt!s mnl musfkcss) nkl thnt!s fknppr`prfntc) fsk!t ft sfr0

    N Ft w`uil mc+

    ^ Unrl`k jc0

    N Ft w`uil mc+

    ^ \hnkb y`u+

    K`w sfr) ict!s a` `k+ Qc ** wh` fs wc fk thc scktckgc0 ** hnvc ifvcl hfs inst = jno`r t`urs+

    Fs thnt y`u nkl Jr+ Uhfiifps0

    N Ft!s jc+ F l`k!t thfkb ]nkly pnrtfgfpntcl fk thc inst tw` t`urs+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) wc fs k`t F+ Ft snys wc+

    Fs thnt mcfka h`kcst0

    N F thfkb ft!s h`kcst+

    ^ @bny+ Qh` fs thc wc fk thnt scktckgc0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    57/164

    N Ft!s jc+

    ^ W` ft sh`uil sny F) sh`uilk!t ft sfr0

    N Qcii) pcrhnps+

    ^ Fd y`u!rc a`fka t` mc t`tniiy trnkspnrckt nkl h`kcst ** ft sh`uil sny F) sh`uilk!t ftsfr0

    N Ucrhnps) ycs+

    ^ Ucrhnps0 \cii us) wh` nrc thc wc fk thnt scktckgc0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nsbcl nkl nkswcrcl+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Ft!s jc+

    ^ (g`ktfkucs rcnlfka& ** hnvc ifvcl hfs inst = jno`r t`urs+ Qc bk`w thc hfst`ry+

    Qh` fs thc wc fk thnt scktckgc) sfr0

    N Qcii) F thfkb n i`t `d us bkcw thc hfst`ry+

    ^ W` thnt jcnks NCA) l`csk!t ft sfr0

    N F mcifcvc s`) ycs+

    ^ W` NCA bkcw thc hfst`ry `d Jfghnci Ongbs`k!s t`urs) rfaht sfr0

    N Vcs+ F mcifcvc s`+

    ^ Nkl NCA nis` bkcw thc pr`micjs) lflk!t thcy sfr0

    N Vcs+^ Nkl thc flf`sykgrnsfcs) g`rrcgt0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    58/164

    N Vcnh+ F mcifcvc s`+

    ^ Nkl `kc `d thc pr`micjs wns thc usc `d prcsgrfptf`k lruas nkl pnfkbfiicrs) wnsk!tft sfr0

    N \hnt turkcl `ut t` mc n pr`micj `k thc Lnkacr`us \`ur) mut ft wns k`t n pr`micj`k thc Hfst`ry \`ur+

    ^ Wfr ** wc bk`w thc pr`micjs ** jcnkfka NCA) fkgiulcl prf`r usc `d pnfkjclfgntf`k nkl `pfntc nllfgtf`k) g`rrcgt sfr0

    N F l`k!t bk`w h`w t` ginssfdy `pfntcs) mut hc lfl nljft thnt hc hnl n pr`micj wfthpnfkbfiicrs+

    ^ Nkl NCA bkcw thnt ns `d Lcgcjmcr >st) =558) whck y`u t`il cvcry`kc? Qc bk`wthc pr`micjs+

    V`u wcrc mcfka h`kcst nkl trnkspnrckt) wcrck!t y`u) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Jfsstntcs thc tcstfj`ky) y`ur h`k`r+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    ^ (g`ktfkucs rcnlfka& Qc ** NCA ** wfii k`t `vcrcstfjntc hfs p`wcr nklp`tcktfni) nkl wc wfii k`t jnbc jfstnbcs thnt g`uil g`st hfj hfs gnrccr ns thc uitfjntcnrtfst+

    Lfl F rcnl thnt rfaht) sfr0

    N K`) sfr+ V`u hnl `kc t`` jnky wc!s fk thcrc+

    ^ Nii rfaht+ F!j s`rry+ Ict jc stnrt `vcr+

    (rcnlfka& ** Qc ** NCA ** wfii k`t `vcrcstfjntc hfs p`tcktfni ** p`wcr nklp`tcktfni+

    Lfl F rcnl thnt rfaht0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    59/164

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Jfsstntcs thc tcstfj`ky+ L`csk!t sny? NCA+

    Oulac? @bny+ ]cnl ft iftcrniiy+

    ^ Qhy l`k!t wc l` thfs0 Qhy l`k!t y`u rcnl ft d`r jc0 Wfkgc y`u wr`tc ft) whyl`k!t y`u rcnl ft0

    N (rcnls l`gujckt& ** Qc wfii k`t vcrcstfjntc hfs p`wcr nkl p`tcktfni nkl wfiik`t jnbc jfstnbcs thnt g`uil g`st hfj hfs gnrccr ns thc uitfjntc nrtfst+ Qc wfii jnxfjfzcft+

    ^ @bny+ Qhy l`k!t y`u rcnl thc dfrst tw` scktckgcs) nis`0 Qc kccl ** h) F!js`rry+

    K`w sfr) ** Qc wfii k`t `vcrcstfjntc+

    \hnt!s NCA) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u nkl thc GC@ nrc lfsgussfka thfs) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u w`k!t jnbc nky jfstnbcs thnt g`uil g`st hfj hfs ifdc+ V`u lflk!t wnkt t`l` thnt) lfl y`u sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nraujcktntfvc) y`ur h`k`r+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N F wns rcdcrrfka t` hfs gnrccr+ Qc l`k!t wnkt t jnbc nky jfstnbcs thnt w`uil g`sthfj hfs gnrccr+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    60/164

    ^ Qcii) fd ft g`st hfj hfs ifdc) thnt g`sts hfj hfs gnrccr) l`csk!t ft sfr0N Ft w`uil+^ Nii rfaht+ Nkl y`u) mcfka trnkspnrckt nkl h`kcst) w`uil kcvcr wnkt t` tcii nky`kc

    thnt!s g`kgcrkcl nm`ut Jfghnci Ongbs`k!s hcnith? Hcy) thfs l`gt`r!s `bny) suggcssdui)mcgnusc wc ghcgb cvcry`kc `ut ** w`uil y`u sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k+ Nraujcktntfvc+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N G`uil F hnvc thnt nanfk) picnsc0

    Unkfsh? Wurc+

    (thc qucstf`k wns rcnl mngb&

    N Qc w`uil niwnys wnkt t` mc trnkspnrckt nkl h`kcst+

    ^ Mut whck y`u sny s`jcthfka ifbc) d`r cxnjpic? \hfs l`gt`r!s suggcssdui) nkl wcghcgb cvcry`kc `ut ** fd y`u lflk!t bk`w thnt) nkl y`u lflk!t ghcgb hfj `ut) thnt w`uilk!tmc trnkspnrckt `r h`kcst) w`uil ft sfr0

    Uutknj? @mocgtf`k) y`ur h`k`r+ Nanfk) ft ingbs d`uklntf`k+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Qc cklcnv`r niwnys t` mc trnkspnrckt nkl h`kcst+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    61/164

    ^ Mut fd y`u sny s`jcthfka ** wcii) dfrst `d nii) fsk!t thc nrtfst!s hcnith thc j`stfjp`rtnkt thfka d`r thc g`kgcrt0

    N F mcifcvc ft fs+

    ^ Fd y`u l`k!t hnvc thc nrtfst) y`u hnvc k` g`kgcrt) rfaht0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Nkl fd Jfghnci Ongbs`k!s ukhcnithy nkl gnk!t pcrd`rj) thcrc!s k` g`kgcrt) rfaht0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Nkl fd Jfghnci Ongbs`k hns n l`gt`r thnt fs afvfka hfj prcsgrfptf`k jclfgntf`ksnkl l`fka thfkas thnt g`uil oc`pnrlfzc hfs hcnith) thnt!s mnl) fsk!t ft sfr0

    Uutknj? Fjpr`pcr hyp`thctfgni+

    Oulac? F!j s`rry0

    Uutknj? Fjpr`pcr hyp`thctfgni+

    Oulac? @vcrruicl+

    N Ft!s mnl fd nky`kc fs afvfka hfj lruas+

    ^ L` y`u bk`w why Jr+ Uhfiifps t`il Jr+ @rtcan thnt? Qc ghcgb cvcry`kc `ut **rcdcrrfka t` Lr+ Jurrny0

    N F hnvc k` flcn+

    ^ Mut y`u bk`w y`u kcvcr ghcgbcl hfj `ut) l`k!t y`u sfr0

    N V`u jcnk Lr+ Jurrny0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    62/164

    ^ Vcnh+

    N F mcifcvc wc lfl ghcgb hfj `ut+

    ^ @h) y`u lfl0 Ghcgbcl `ut hfs mngbar`ukl nkl qunifdfgntf`ks) nkl cvcrythfka ifbcthnt0

    N K`) wc lflk!t l` thnt+ Qhck wc ghcgb `ut s`jc`kc) wc ghcgb `ut ** wc cfthcrrciy `k fd wc bk`w thc pcrs`k) `r fd thcy!rc bk`wk fk thc fklustry) `r fd thcy!rcrcg`jjcklcl my thc nrtfst+ Nkl fk thfs gnsc) Lr+ Jurrny wns rcg`jjcklcl my thc nrtfst+Fk dngt) thc nrtfst fksfstcl+

    ^ Wfr) y`u lflk!t sny thnt fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k) lfl y`u sfr0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) ict!s piny ft+ Ict jc dfkl ft+

    V`ur tcstfj`ky hcrc t`lny fs thnt y`u lfl ghcgb `ut Lr+ Jurrny) g`rrcgt0 Fs thnt n ycs) sfr0

    N Qcii) ycs+

    ^ @bny+ Dnfr ck`uah+ Ict jc dfkl y`ur tcstfj`ky hcrc+

    Unkfsh? @bny+ \hnt wfii mc pnac >78 t`>76+ Ict!s scc whnt y`u snfl fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k)sfr+

    (Unkfsh pinys vflc` gifp `d A`kanwnrc lcp`sftf`k&?

    ^ Hnvc y`u icnrkcl sfkgc thnt tfjc thnt nkym`ly nt NCA Ifvc cvcr g`klugtcl

    nky s`rt `d mngbar`ukl ghcgb fkt` Lr+ Jurrny0

    N F l`k!t bk`w d nkym`ly thnt lfl+

    ^ Nkl l`cs thnt g`kgcrk y`u fk nky wny0

    N K`+

    ^ L` y`u thfkb ]nkly Uhfiifps g`klugtcl n mngbar`ukl ghcgb fkt` Lr+

    Jurrny0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    63/164

    N F l`k!t bk`w+

    ^ Fs ft y`ur nkswcr y`u l`k!t bk`w) `r y`u l`k!t thfkb hc lfl0

    N F l`k!t bk`w fd hc lfl r k`t+

    ^ Mut y`u hnvc k` fkd`rjntf k thnt hc lfl) g`rrcgt0

    N \hnt!s g`rrcgt+

    ^ Lfl y`u cvcr scc nk fkvcstfantf k rcp`rt k Lr+ Jurrny0

    N K`+

    ^ K`w sfr) lfl y`u ghnkac thnt p`rtf`k `d y`ur lcp`sftf`k0

    N K`+

    ^ K`w) sfr **

    Unkfsh? Nrc wc tnbfka n mrcnb `r y`u a`fka strnfaht thr`uah0

    Oulac? K`+ Qc!rc a`fka ** wc stnrtcl nt >5?55+

    Unkfsh? @bny+ F oust wnktcl t` bk`w+

    ^ Nii rfaht+ Ict jc sh`w y`u sfr) cxhfmft 478) whfgh fs nis` cxhfmft >8 t` y`urlcp`sftf`k+ W` fd y`u wnkt t` puii thnt lcp`sftf`k `ut) y`u!ii hnvc n g`py rfaht thcrc d`ry`u+ Cxhfmft 478+

    L` y`u hnvc thnt) Jr+ A`kanwnrc0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ @bny+ Lfl y`u sckl thnt c*jnfi) `r lfl y`u rcgcfvc thnt c*jnfi0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    64/164

    N (rcnlfka l`gujckt&

    ^ Fd ft hcips ** y`u rcnly0

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s i``b nt thnt+ F!l ifbc t` a` dfrst t` thc t`p+

    Fs thnt y`u) sfr) wrftfka thnt c*jnfi0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ V`u l`k!t rcjcjmcr wrftfka thfs c*jnfi) F supp`sc0

    N F l`k!t rcjcjmcr thfs `kc+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl thfs `kc ** thc sumocgt y`u wr`tc fk thcrc? Jfghnci Ongbs`k lntcs @=+]faht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl Lnvfl Gnjpmcii nkl Ocssfgn B`rnv`s+ Lfl F pr`k`ukgc thnt rfaht0

    N B`rnv`s) rfaht+

    ^ Nkl thcy!rc pc`pic thnt w`rb d`r NCA fk thc Skftcl Bfkal`j) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl whnt l` thcy l` d`r NCA0

    N Lnvfl rnk thc @= g`jpicx) fkgiulfka thc @= Nrckn+ Nkl Ocssfgn rnk NCA IfvcCur`pc+ @r NCA Ifvc I`kl`k) nkywny+

    ^ Nkl NCA `wkcl thc @= Nrckn) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ W` whck g`kgcrts wcrc l`kc thcrc nt @=) l` thcy act j`kcy) NCA0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ W`) fk `thcr w`rls) fs thcrc s`jc ** whck y`u!rc nk nrtfst) nkl y`u!rcm``bfka nk nrtfst nt nk nrckn ifbc thc @=) l` y`u jnbc nk nrckn nrrnkacjckt0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    65/164

    N F l`k!t bk`w whnt y`u jcnk my nrrnkacjckt+ Qc l` jnbc n lcni wfth thc nrckn)ycs+

    ^ Nkl whck y`u jnbc n lcni wfth thc nrckn) thnt jcnks y`u hnvc t` pny thcj t`usc thc nrckn0

    N Fk thfs gnsc wc wcrck!t pnyfka nky rckt `k thc @=) wc wcrc `kiy pnyfka ngtunig`sts+

    ^ Mcgnusc y`u `wkcl ft0

    N Mcgnusc Jfghnci Ongbs`k wns `d thc stnturc thnt hc g`uil lcjnkl t` k`t hnvc t`pny rckt fk thc nrckn+

    ^ Qcii sfr) l` k`rjniiy nrtfsts pny rckt t` usc thc nrckn fd y`u `wk ft0

    N Vcs+

    ^ @bny+ Ict!s a` t` thc inst pnrnarnph+ \hfs fs k`w `k thc lntc ** F!j s`rry **Onkunry3th) =556+

    Nj F rfaht `k thnt) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u wnkt t` nlvfsc cvcry`kc ** nanfk) thcsc nrc nii t`p jnknacjckt pc`pic `dthc g`jpnky0

    N Fk Cur`pc) ycs+

    ^ Qcii) Jr+ Uhfiifps fs hcrc fk thc SW) fsk!t hc0

    N Qcii) ycs+ Hc!s gg!l+

    ^ Nkl Jr+ Jcaick0

    N Vcs+^ Nkl y`u wnkt t` tcii thcj thnt? Qc sccj t` mc nt `r kcnr thc dfkni lrndt `d thcg`ktrngt+ ]faht0

    N ]faht+

    ^ (g`ktfkucs rcnlfka& ** nith`uah ft!s k`t a`fka ns dnst ns wc w`uil nii ifbc) thc flcnfs t` act ft l`kc nky wny wc gnk+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    66/164

    Lfl F rcnl thnt rfaht) sfr0N Vcs+

    ^ W` `k Onkunry 3th

    ) rfaht ndtcr thc Kcw Vcnr) y`u!rc snyfka? Qc wnkt t` act thfsl`kc nky wny wc gnk+ ]faht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Mcgnusc ft wns vcry fjp`rtnkt t` y`ur g`jpnky t` act thfs l`kc) wnsk!t ft0

    N Vcnh) ft wns+

    ^ Nky wny y`u g`uil) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ K`w) ict!s a` up t` thc pnrnarnph nm`vc thnt) mcgnusc F nsbcl y`u cnrifcr nm`ut thcMnl \`ur) nkl y`ur inwycr `mocgtcl+ W` F wnkt t` nsb y`u) lfl y`u bk`w nm`ut thcMnl \`ur) sfr0

    N F lfl bk`w nm`ut ft+ F wnsk!t `k ft+^ K`+ \hnt wnsk!t jy qucstf`k+ \hc qucstf`k F wns nsbfka y`u fs whnt y`u bkcwnm`ut thc Mnl \`ur cnrifcr+ V u bk`w nii nm`ut thc Mnl \`ur) l`k!t y`u sfr0

    N K`+ F l`k!t bk`w nii nm`ut ft+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii) tcii jc ** Qcjmicy stnlfuj) whcrc fs thnt i`gntcl0

    N I`kl`k+

    ^ \hnt!s whcrc thcy piny thc s`ggcr jntghcs) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Qhcrc thcy hnl thc @iyjpfgs) rfaht0

    N F l`k!t bk`w+

    ^ Ft oust hnppckcl+ V`u lflk!t d`ii`w thc @iyjpfgs0

    N F l`k!t rcgnii thc vckucs+

    ^ Qcjmicy Wtnlfuj fs thnt thc mfaacst vckuc fk thc Skftcl Bfkal`j) `r stnlfuj0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    67/164

    N Ft!s thc mfaacst `kc fk I`kl`k) mut F!j k`t surc `d thc SB+

    ^ Qhfgh `kc fs mfaacr0

    N L`k!t bk`w+ F l`k!t bk`w nii thc stnlfujs fk thc SB+

    ^ V`u l`k!t bk`w nky mfaacr) l` y`u0

    N F l`k!t bk`w nky mfaacr `kcs) mut F l`k!t bk`w thcj nii+

    ^ Mut y`u!rc hcrc tciifka cvcry`kc fk thc jnknacjckt thnt `k thc Mnl \`ur) JfghnciOngbs`k s`il `ut tck wcjmicy stnlfujs nt 13)555 pcr kfaht) whfgh w`uil cquni 135)555pc`pic) rfaht0N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thnt!s n prctty mfa lcni) fsk!t ft sfr0

    N Huac+

    ^ Huac+ Cxngtiy+ Nkl y`u lflk!t bk`w h`w jugh thfs thfka w`uil scii `ut ** thc@=) rfaht0 V`u lflk!t bk`w d`r surc+ V u th`uaht y`u bkcw) mut y`u lflk!t bk`w d`r surc)rfaht0

    N K`m`ly bk`ws uktfi y`u l` ft+ Ft!s up t` thc pumifg t` lcgflc+

    ^ \hc pumifg hnl n prctty rcs`uklfka nkswcr) lflk!t thcy sfr0N \hcy lfl+

    ^ Fk = h`urs) h`w jnky tfgbcts wcrc s`il d`r thc @= Nrckn d`r Jfghnci Ongbs`k0

    N Qcii) `vcr thc g`ursc `d ** F l`k!t bk`w nm`ut = h`urs) mut `vcr ** `vcr = h`urs)wc s`il ** fk thc fkftfni prcsnic) wc s`il 7> sh`ws+ F l`k!t bk`w fd ft wns = h`urs) mut fk nvcry sh`rt pcrf`l `d tfjc+

    ^ Dnstcst y`u!l cvcr scck ft) fsk!t ft sfr0

    N Vcs) ft wns+

    ^ Kcvcr scck nkythfka ifbc ft fk y`ur gnrccr) fk thc hfst`ry `d y`ur gnrccr) rfaht0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+

    ^ Ft wns h`t) wnsk!t ft0

    N Vcs) sfr+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    68/164

    ^ Mut y`u lflk!t bk`w h`w jnky sh`ws y`u g`uil act Jfbcy t` l`) lfl y`u sfr0

    N K` `kc bkcw+

    ^ Mut y`u wcrc tciifka pc`pic? Qc l`k!t bk`w h`w jnky sh`ws wc gnk act Jfbcyt` l`+ ]faht0

    N F!j k`t surc whnt y`u!rc rcdcrrfka t`+ F l`k!t rcjcjmcr thnt spcgfdfg+

    ^ Qcii) ict!s i``b nt thc c*jnfi y`u wr`tc) sfr+ V`u oust rcnl ft+ Dfrst pnrnarnph+

    N Qcii) ft!s ** F!j rcdcrrfka t` k` `kc bk`ws h`w jnky sh`ws wc gnk act+ Ft l`csk!trcdcr t` h`w jnky wc gnk act Jfghnci t` l`+ Ft!s h`w jnky wc g`uil act `ut `d thfssftuntf`k+

    ^ Nii rfaht+ Wfr) Jfbcy- ** thnt!s oust n kfgc knjc whck y`u rcdcr t` Jr+ Ongbs`k)rfaht0 Jfbcy0

    N Ft!s `kc `d thc knjcs F uscl) ycnh+

    ^ Lfl y`u cvcr rcdcr t` hfj ifbc thnt fk dr`kt `d pc`pic0

    N Vcnh) F thfkb s`+

    ^ Qh`0 Qh` wns prcsckt whck y`u rcdcrrcl t` hfj ns Jfbcy fk thc pumifg0

    N F l`k!t bk`w+ Ft!s `vcr jnky ycnrs+ F gniicl hfj Jfbcy `ggnsf`kniiy+

    ^ @ggnsf`kniiy0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Mut y`u rcdcrrcl t` hfj n i`t fk c*jnfis ns Jfbcy) l`k!t y`u sfr0

    N F l`k!t bk`w whnt n i`t fs+

    ^ Qcii) thc c*jnfi ** thc kct vcrsus ar`ss ** y`u bcpt gniifka hfj Jfbcy fk thnt `kc)rfaht0

    N F nis` gniicl hfj JO fk thnt `kc) F mcifcvc+ Mut ycs) F gniicl hfj Jfbcy fk thnt+

    Unkfsh? Ict!s i``b nt cxhfmft 478*

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    69/164

    ^ Ft!s fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k ns ** ict jc hcip y`u) fd y`u!l ifbc+

    N Uicnsc+

    ^ Nii rfaht+ V`u!rc wcig`jc) my thc wny+ Ict jc oust afvc y`u n g`py d`r y`umcgnusc thcy!rc nii `vcr thc pingc+

    Unkfsh? L` y`u hnvc n g`py `d thnt0

    M`yic? Ft!s thc wr`ka cxhfmft kujmcr d`r thnt+ \hnt!s thc pr`micj+

    Unkfsh? @bny+ K`t l`fka s` a``l+

    M`yic? ft!s k`t y`ur dnuit+ 65+

    Wtcmmfks? Qhnt!s thc ngtuni0

    Unkfsh? 478*65+ Fs thnt ft0

    M`yic? Vcs+

    Wtcmmfks? \hnkb y`u+

    Unkfsh? 65+ @bny+

    ^ @bny+ F d`ukl ft+ Hcrc y`u a`+ (afvcs n g`py&

    N @bny+ (rcnlfka l`gujckt&

    ^ @bny+ Qhck y`u!rc rcnly) ict jc bk`w) Jr+ A`kanwnrc+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    70/164

    N Vcs) sfr+

    ^ @bny+ V`u rcnly0

    N Vcs+ ^ @bny+ Lfl y`u wrftc thnt c*jnfi0

    N Vcs+

    Unkfsh? Ict!s put thnt up+

    ^ W` y`u rcjcjmcr wrftfka thnt cjnfi) rfaht0

    N F l`k!t rcjcjmcr wrftfka ft) mut F l` rcjcjmcr rcvfcwfka ft+

    ^ @bny+ @kgc nanfk) scklfka ft t` thc G`*GC@ `d y`ur g`jpnky nkl t` thc GC@ `dNCA Ifvc) rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u!rc rcsp`klfka t` Jr+ Uhfiifps nm`ut prfkt nl " g`py) rfaht0

    N Qhfgh pnrt `d thc cjnfi nrc y`u rcdcrrfka t`0

    ^ Wumocgt? prfkt nl " g`py+

    N Vcs+

    ^ Lfl y`u wrftc thnt0N F mcifcvc F lfl+

    ^ @bny+ ]cnl thc dfrst pnrnarnph d`r us0

    N @k thc t`p `d thc cjnfi0

    ^ ]nkly ** ycnh+ \hfs fs thc `kc y`u wr`tc+ ]nkly+

    N (rcnls cjnfi& ** \` nkswcr y`ur qucstf`k) jy dugbfka hcnl fs t`tniiy fkt` nii `d

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    71/164

    thfs+ Cvcry lctnfi+ F ict a` `d GQ whck \fj anvc jc thc w`rl+ Fd y`u wnkt t` bccp fta`fka) l` ft+

    F np`i`afzc d`r jy inkaunac+ F!j s`rry+

    ^ Qcii) y`u usc thnt quftc `dtck fk cjnfis) inkaunac ifbc thnt) l`k!t y`u sfr0

    N F l`k!t bk`w nm`ut quftc `dtck) mut F lfl usc ft+

    ^ \hnt!s pnrt `d y`ur k`rjni vcrknguinr) h`w y`u spcnb fk thc fklustry) rfaht0

    N Qhck F!j spcnbfka fktcrkniiy s`jctfjcs+ F wns rcdcrrfka t` whnt ]nkly snflnm`ut ft+

    ^ Qcii) hc tnibs ifbc thnt t` y`u) t``) nkl y`u tnib mngb t` hfj ifbc thnt+ \hnt!s h`wy`u auys g`jjukfgntc) rfaht0

    N Nt tfjcs) ycnh+

    ^ Nkl sfr) whnt fs GQ0

    N G`kgcrts Qcst+

    ^ Nkl \fj) fs thnt Jr+ Icfwcbc0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl thc fssuc hcrc wns) wh`sc knjc wns a`fka t` mc `k thc pr`j`tf`knijntcrfnis) rfaht0

    N \hnt!s `kc `d thc fssucs fk thfs gnsc+

    ^ @bny+ Fk `thcr w`rls) thcy oust wnkt ** thcy) Jr+ Icfwcbc nkl Jr+ Uhfiifps ** thcyoust wnktcl ft t` sny NCA Ifvc) g`rrcgt0

    N ]faht+

    ^ Nkl y`u wnktcl y`ur g`jpnky) G`kgcrts Qcst) t` hnvc thcfr knjc `k ft) g`rrcgt0

    N G`kgcrts Qcst wns n lfvfsf`k `d NCA Ifvc+ Ft!s s`rt `d ifbc O`hk!s nkl jy inmci+

    ^ Mut y`u wnktcl y`ur inmci pr`j`tcl d`r y`ur `wk mckcdft) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N \hnt wns jy prcdcrckgc+

    ^ Unrl`k jc0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    72/164

    N \hnt wns jy prcdcrckgc+

    ^ ]faht+ Mcgnusc ** l` y`u hnvc n lcni whcrc y`u act j`rc j`kcy fk gcrtnfkgfrgujstnkgcs0

    N K`+

    ^ L` y`u hnvc n pnrtfgfpntf`k narccjckt fk nky nspcgts `d y`ur musfkcss0

    N K`+

    ^ V`u lflk!t tcstfdy nm`ut thnt fk y`ur lcp`sftf`k0

    N Qcii) F lfl hnvc n ** nt `kc tfjc F lfl hnvc n) F aucss y`u!l gnii ft ** F l`k!t bk`wh`w y`u!l lcsgrfmc ft+ F lfl hnvc n sjnii pfcgc `d ft+ \hnt!s sfkgc mcck tnbck `ut+

    ^ Mut fk =556) y`u hnl n pcrgcktnac) n pfcgc `d thc ngtf`k) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N Ft wns n vcry) vcry tfky pfcgc `d thc `vcrnii g`jpnky) NCA+

    ^ Wfr) y`u **

    N Mut ft wnsk!t wfth NCA Ifvc `r nkythfka thnt hnl t` l` wfth NCA Ifvc+ F lflk!tact nky j`rc g`jpcksntf`k d`r whnt F lfl wfth NCA Ifvc+

    ^ Mut y`u hnl n pfcgc `d thc mfa g`jpnky) lflk!t y`u0

    N Tcry tfky pfcgc) ycs+

    ^ Nkl Jr+ Nksghutz wns nwnrc `d thnt) wnsk!t hc sfr0

    N Vcs sfr+

    ^ Nkl lfl y`u kca`tfntc thnt lcni wfth Jr+ Nksghutz0

    N K`+

    ^ Jr+ Mingb0

    N K`+

    ^ Qh` lfl y`u kca`tfntc ft wfth0

    N Lnk Mcgbcrjnk+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    73/164

    ^ Lnk Mcgbcrjnk wh` fs k`w thc GC@ `d NCA0

    N Hc wns thc G@@ nt thc tfjc) F mcifcvc+

    ^ Nkl my thc wny) ns dnr ns sghcluifka `d g`kgcrts nkl lntcs) wh` w`uil mc j`rc

    bk`wiclacnmic) y`u `r Jr+ \rcii0

    N @k thfs pnrtfguinr0

    ^ Vcs+

    N F w`uil mc+

    ^ @bny+ W` ict!s i``b nt ft+ Ft snys ** thfs fs y`ur rcsp`ksc+ V u wrftc?

    Jcnktfjc) `ur piny hcrc fs t` k`t mngb `dd+ Qc nrc h`ilfka nii `d thc rfsb+

    Nanfk) y`u!rc rcdcrrfka t` NCA Ifvc) fs thnt rfaht0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl `ur piny jcnks whnt wc sh`uil l`) rfaht0

    N Vcs+ \hnt!s whnt wc sh`uil l` hcrc) ycs+

    ^ Nii rfaht+ Nkl thck y`u sny?

    Qc ** NCA Ifvc ** ict Jfbcy bk`w oust whnt thfs wfii g`st hfj+

    Lfl F rcnl thnt rfaht) sfr0

    N Vcs+

    ^ W` y`u!rc tciifka Jr+ Uhfiifps thnt NCA sh`uil tcii Jfbcy whnt thfs fs a`fka t`g`st hfj fk tcrjs `d jnbfka j`kcy) rfaht0

    N Vcs+ Qc!rc rcdcrrfka t` thc prcss g`kdcrckgc) F mcifcvc+

    ^ Mut y`u!rc a`fka t` tcii hfj? Hcy) thfs fs a`fka t` nddcgt h`w jugh j`kcy y`ujnbc+ ]faht0

    N Vcs+ Uc`pic wcrc nwnrc nt thfs p`fkt thnt thcrc wns a`fka t` mc n prcss g`kdcrckgc**

    ^ Wfr **

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    74/164

    N ** nkl ft w`uil hnvc ** fd Jfghnci w`uil k`t hnvc sh`wk up nt thc prcss g`kdcrckgc) ftw`uil hnvc g`st hfj j`kcy+^ Qcii) hnl y`u put thc tfgbcts `k snic yct0N K`+ K`t nt thnt p`fkt+

    ^ @bny+ \hck) sfr) y`u sny?

    Qc gnkk`t mc d`rgcl ** wcii) why l`k!t y`u rcnl thnt0

    ]cnl th`sc inst tw` scktckgcs d`r us) whnt y`u wr`tc thcrc `k Dcmrunry =1 th) =556) sfr+

    N (rcnls cjnfi& Qc gnkk`t mc d`rgcl fkt` st`ppfka thfs) whfgh JO wfii try t` l`mcgnusc hc!s inzy nkl g`kstnktiy ghnkacs hfs jfkl t` dft hfs fjjclfntc wnkts+

    ^ W` y`u wcrc lcsgrfmfka Jr+ Ongbs`k) wh` y`u mcifcvc t` mc inzy) rfaht sfr0

    N Qcii) thnt w`uil mc n p``r gh`fgc `d w`rls) mut hc rcniiy lflk!t ifbc t` rchcnrsc+Hc lflk!t ifbc t` l` thcsc bfkls `d thfkas+

    ^ Wfr) lfl y`u lcsgrfmc Jr+ Ongbs`k t` thc tw` GC@s ns inzy0 Vcs `r k`0

    N F lfl+

    ^ Qhnt lfl y`u jcnk my thfs pnrnarnph) sfr0 L` y`u hnvc n rcg`iicgtf`k `d whnty`u jcnkt0

    N Vcs) F mcifcvc F l`+ Qhck wc sny wc!rc h`ilfka nii thc rfsb) thcrc wnsk!t rcniiyjugh rfsb nt nii nt thfs p`fkt+ Qc hnlk!t spckt nky j`kcy+ Qc hnlk!t tnbck `k nky rfsb ntthfs p`fkt+

    Nkl ** fd Jfbcy w`uilk!t nppr`vc ft) wc!l a` wfth`ut hfs nppr`vni ** nkl F thfkb F wnsrcdcrrfka thcrc t` thc nlvcrtfsfka nkl pr`j`tf`kni gnjpnfak+

    ^ @bny+

    N W` ** Lr+ \`hjc fsk!t `k thc pinkc) wc!ii a` wfth`ut hfj-) thnt!s oust **

    ^ F!j `k thfs pnrnarnph rfaht hcrc+ @bny+ V`u!rc rfaht+

    Uutknj? V ur h`k`r) gnk wc ict thc wftkcss **

    Unkfsh? Qcii surc) wc!ii ict hfj dfkfsh+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    75/164

    Oulac? Qnft+ Hc!s rcdcrrfka t` n p`rtf`k k`t mcfka nsbcl nm`ut+

    Wtcmmfks? Ft!s fk thc pnrnarnph+

    ^ A` nhcnl+ \cii us nii **

    Oulac? @h) ycs+ V u!rc rfaht+ Ft!s fk thc pnrnarnph+ A` nhcnl+

    ^ A` nhcnl+ Bccp tciifka us cvcrythfka y`u rcjcjmcr whnt y`u wr`tc nm`ut thnt+

    N (rcnlfka dr`j cjnfi& ** Lr+ \`hjc fs k`t `k thc pinkc) wc a` wfth`ut hfj+ Jyj`kcy fs `k Lr+ \`hjc+

    F thfkb thnt wns rcdcrrfka t` whnt ]nkly hnl snfl cnrifcr nm`ut whcthcr Lr+ \`hjc w`uilmc `k thc pinkc `r k`t+ Nkl fd hc lflk!t a` ** nkl pc`pic bkcw thnt Jfghnci wns a`fka t`hnvc n prcss g`kdcrckgc) nkl thcy bkcw thnt thcrc wns a`fka t` mc nk nkk`ukgcjcktnm`ut n t`ur+ Fd hc w`uilk!t hnvc l`kc thnt) ft w`uil hnvc ** mcgnusc `d thc sftuntf`k fkI`kl`k whcrc thcy g`kstnktiy rcdcrrcl t` hfj ns Qngb`*Ongb`) nkl nii th`sc `thcr thfkasthnt wcrc a`fka `k) fd hc w`uilk!t hnvc sh`wk up nt thc prcss g`kdcrckgc) ft w`uil hnvclcdfkftciy nddcgtcl hfs jnrbctnmfifty nkl hfs nmfifty t` scii tfgbcts+

    ^ @bny+

    N (rcnlfka cjnfi& ** Qc gnk!t mc d`rgcl fkt` st`ppfka thfs ** whfgh rcniiy rcdcrs t``ur g`ktrngt+ Qc g`uilk!t st`p ft+ Qc wcrc g`ktrngtuniiy `mifantcl t` l` thfs+

    Nkl Jfghnci) f!j surc hc lflk!t wnkt t` l` thc prcss g`kdcrckgc+ Hc l`csk!t wnkt t` l`thcsc bfkls `d thfkas+ Hc l`csk!t ifbc l`fka ft+ Mut ft wns n kcgcssnry thfka ** fd wc wcrca`fka t` put hfj `k snic ** d`r Jfghnci Ongbs`k t` sh`w up nkl ict thc w`ril bk`w hc!sg`jfka+

    ^ Nkythfka cisc y`u wnkt t` cxpinfk nm`ut thnt) sfr0

    N G`vcrs jy rcg`iicgtf`k `d ft+

    ^ @bny+ Nkl thnt rcg`iicgtf`k) lfl y`u oust act thnt whck y`u jct wfth y`ur inwycrst` prcpnrc d`r y`ur tcstfj`ky hcrc0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    76/164

    N K`+ F a`t ft whck F stnrtcl puttfka nii `d thcsc pfcgcs t`acthcr nkl rcvfcwfka ft nkltryfka t` uklcrstnkl fk g`ktcxt whnt wns hnppckfka) nkl F lfl rcgnii whnt wns `k jyjfkl+

    ^ Qcii) ict!s scc whnt y`u tcstfdfcl t` uklcr `nth) sfr) `k Lcgcjmcr =5th

    ) =556+ V`unljft y`u t`il thc truth thcrc0 F!j s`rry+ =5>=+Ict!s i``b nt whnt y`u snfl) sfr) uklcr `nth) mcd`rc thcsc jcctfkas wfth thc inwycrs `kpnac >18) ifkc >3 ** t` >16) ifkc 1) `bny0

    Uutknj? Oust n scg`kl) y`ur h`k`r+

    (Unkfsh pinys vflc` gifp `d A`kanwnrc lcp`sftf`k&?

    ^ Nkl thck ndtcr thc pnrckthctfgni) ft snys? Qc ict Jfbcy bk`w oust whnt thfs

    wfii g`st hfj fk tcrjs `d hfj jnbfka j`kcy) nkl thck wc a` wfth `r wfth`ut hfj fk

    I`kl`k+

    L` y`u bk`w whnt y`u jcnkt whck y`u wr`tc thnt0

    N K`+

    ^ Nkl thck y`u a` k? Qc gnkk t mc d`rgcl fkt` st`ppfka thfs) whfgh JO wfii

    try t` l`) mcgnusc hc fs inzy nkl g`kstnktiy ghnkacs hfs jfkl t` dft hfs fjjclfntc

    wnkts+

    L` y`u bk`w whnt y`u jcnkt my thnt0

    N K`+

    ^ K`w sfr) y`u tcstfdfcl y`u lflk!t cvck rcjcjmcr wrftfka thfs cjnfi uklcr `nth fky`ur lcp`sftf`k) fsk!t thnt rfaht sfr0

    N \hnt!s rfaht+ F lflk!t rcjcjmcr+

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    77/164

    ^ Nkl nt thfs tfjc) sfr) y`u lflk!t hnvc nky gnkgcintf`k `r sfgbkcss fksurnkgc) lfly`u0

    N Nt whnt tfjc0

    ^ Dcmrunry =1th

    ) whck y`u wr`tc thfs cjnfi+

    N F l`k!t bk`w+ F l`k!t bk`w nm`ut fksurnkgc+ Gcrtnfkiy l`k!t bk`w thnt dngt+

    ^ @bny+ Qcii sfr) thfs fs wfthfk `kc j`kth `d sfakfka thc narccjckt) fsk!t ft sfr0N Vcnh+ Wcvck `r cfaht wccbs) ycnh+

    ^ Wcvck `r cfaht wccbs0 \hc narccjckt wns sfakcl whck) sfr0

    N Jy rcg`iicgtf`k fs cnriy Onkunry) nkl thfs fs intc Dcmrunry+

    ^ Qcrc y`u nt thc sfakfka wfth Jr+ \rcii0

    N Vcs+

    ^ Nkl y`u rcgnii ft t` mc cnriy Onkunry0

    N F!j k`t surc whck ft wns+

    ^ W` wfthfk ** F wnkt y`u t` nssujc thnt ft wns Onkunry =8th) sfr) thnt thc narccjcktswcrc sfakcl+ Qc!vc cstnmifshcl thnt nircnly) `bny0 F wnkt y`u t` nssujc thnt) nii rfaht0

    N Fd thnt!s thc gnsc) thck ft w`uil mc n j`kth) ycnh+

    ^ Qfthfk n j`kth `d sfakfka thc g`ktrngt) y`u hnl scrf`us g`kgcrks) lflk!t y`u sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ Nkl y`u wcrck!t w`rrfcl) rfaht0

    N K`+ F wns kcvcr w`rrfcl nm`ut ft+

    ^ Nkl y`u lflk!t sny? \` mngb `dd k`w w`uil mc n lfsnstcr d`r nii `d us ** lfl y`u)sfr0

    N F lfl sny thnt fk thcrc) mut ft w`uil hnvc mcck n lfsnstcr d`r Jfghnci Ongbs`k) d`rsurc+ Mut d`r NCA Ifvc) ft w`uilk!t mc n lfsnstcr) mcgnusc nt thfs tfjc wc hnl k`fkvcstjckt fk ft+

    ^ @bny) sfr+ W` why l`k!t y`u rcnl thnt scktckgc whcrc y`u snfl ** whcrc fs ft0 Fs ftl`wk durthcr0

  • 7/28/2019 JACKSON V AEG May 28th 2013- Paul Gongaware Trial Transcripts

    78/164

    (rcnls cjnfi& ** \ mngb `dd k`w w`uil mc n lfsnstcr d`r us+

    Lfl y`u sckl thfs cjnfi t` Jfghnci Ongbs`k) sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ Lfl y`u sckl thfs cjnfi t` nky rcprcscktntfvc `d jfghnci ongbs`k) sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ Lfl y`u sckl thfs cjnfi t` nky`kc `thcr thnk NCA uppcr jnknacjckt) sfr0

    N K`+

    ^ Lfl y`u rcdcr ft t` nky`kc thnt ft w`uil mc n lfsnstcr d`r us t` mngb `dd k`w `thcr

    thnk Jr+ Uhfiifps nkl Jr+ Jcaick0

    N \hnt!s wh` F sckt ft t`+

    ^ Ss jcnks y`u) l`csk!t ft sfr0

    N Nis` jcnkt Jfghnci Ongbs`k) F thfkb) fk thfs gnsc) mcgnusc ft w`uil hnvc mcck npr`micj d`r hfj+

    ^