More Maths GradsHE Curriculum theme

Neil Challis

Mike Robinson

Mike Thomlinson

What does "HE Curriculum theme" mean?

• It is not about telling people what topics they should be teaching, although… see next slide...

• It is about holding up a mirror concerning...

What does "HE Curriculum theme" mean?

...

• how we support students

• “transition from” or “connection to” A Level

• student and staff attitudes and aspirations

• particular issues such as employability and employer involvement

• and therefore, curriculum!!

What have we been doing? #1

Working in four institutions to gather data:

• Large questionnaire to first year students

• Interviews with members of staff and tutors

• Interviews and focus groups with students

Analysing the data.

What have we been doing? #2

Considering particular issues:

• Alternative entry routes, particularly for adult returners– Polymaths, prep years, access courses, Open

University, A-level (!)– Information is an issue

• Foundation degrees– Nature– Market – SEMTA role – biosciences

What have we been doing? #3

Considering particular issues:

• Employability of our graduates, and the place of careers considerations– Careers awareness for soon-to-be graduates– Employability – whose job to develop generic

graduate skills?

• Regional diversity– Cf the “Steele report” and “broader entry”

courses

How do we view what we are doing?

• We are not finding definitive answers and pronouncing from on high

• We are not producing a Good (or Best - ugh) Practice Guide

• We are trying: – to spread good ideas, – to get more people talking and sharing

What kinds of issues are arising from our data?

• Many diverse issues

• Some are blindingly obvious

• Today we shall focus on one idea– student experience– staff experience– contrast/tension between them– do we need to think differently?

The student viewpoint

Major life change - maths is not their only (main?) concern

"it was hard… you were just moving to somewhere new as well and you had to do your work as well… I can’t cook… I didn’t know how to wash my clothes… I had to learn…"

The student viewpoint

Maths isn't what they expected...

"the reality of what maths is like post A-level is a bit of a surprise“

"…it was really different... more computers than I was expecting. I expected it to be a bit more like pure maths“

"School was easier… but this is more interesting and better"

The student viewpoint...especially for students without Further Maths in a department where most students have it

"I think it’s a lot harder than what I expected... I had my interview and I said ‘Would it be a problem, that I’ve not done further maths?’ and they said ‘No that’s fine’ and then we had like so many lectures... and I was like ‘What’s that?’ and they said ‘Oh didn’t you do that in further maths?’ I think if I had known it was going to be this hard I don’t think I would have done it... I probably wouldn’t have come to this university."

The student viewpoint

The teaching/learning methods are new to them"I found it you know, strange to be in such big classes, because you know, last year I was in a Further Maths class of me and another girl.“

"It needs a lot of discipline and it's totally different.“

"I just felt really stupid, asking for help in front of everyone."

The student viewpoint

Why did they choose maths?

enjoymentwide job prospects

good at it

respected degreefor a specific career

to learn more maths

challengeearning potential

The student viewpointWhat career plans do they have?

Fewer than half have any idea. Of those:

financebanking

teachingaccountancy

actuaryearning a lot

business/management

something with maths

insurance

lawresearch

meteorology

statistician

code breaking

The staff viewpoint

Strong evidence of staff committed to good teaching - albeit with some reservations

"Undergraduate teaching pays the rent. You do it well because you have more fun with it that way. But one large part of my motivation for… teaching undergraduates, [is] getting postgraduates to do research with me."

The staff viewpoint

• Staff acknowledge diversity of students...

• ...but focus on perceived shortcomings...

• ...of which there are many!

The staff viewpoint

• Poor basic skills/patchy subject knowledge

"They don't understand fractions, so when it comes to algebraic manipulation, it's not second nature and you can see them struggling."

The staff viewpoint

• Algorithmic approach

“Most schools seem to provide… a fairly instrumentalist algorithmic approach to almost everything"

"A-level mentality… is preparing for exams, learning methods, when you see this sort of question this is the way you should answer it and train, train, train…"

The staff viewpoint

• Inability to write maths well

"One of my big things is getting the students to write their Mathematics properly. It’s no good just bunging down a load of unconnected statements…"

"What really annoys me is that students don't use mathematical language and they use equals signs with gay abandon"

The staff viewpoint

• Attendance/commitment/attitude

"They've been brought up with an exam culture of course at school, it's very test test test test."

"..by the time people have come to us from school, they already have it absolutely ingrained in them that coursework is for marks. They don't get a mark, they don't do it. Okay, this is terrible. But if we don't mark coursework we know they wouldn't do it and so they wouldn't learn."

The staff viewpoint

• Lack of rigour/concept of proof

“When they get here [it’s] sort of the first time they’ve ever met a proof, they have no idea what, what’s expected. The proof just looks like a big scary word"

The staff viewpoint

• Lack of interest in the subject for its own sake

"You know, we get all wrapped up in the syllabus and maths, definitions and proofs but, but our typical student wants a, wants a good 2i and a good job."

Staff StudentsPassionate about the subject

Varying interest in maths - some indifferent

Subject-focussed Often career-focussed

Mathematically able Varying mathematical ability

Motivated and hard working from an early age

Varying motivationand work ethic

Interested in understanding Primarily interested inpassing tests/exams

Strong early groundingin 'the basics'

Generally know less thanwe did at their age

Think maths should be hard Usually found maths easy/easiest at A-level

The staff viewpoint

• We acknowledge (?grudgingly) that our students are not like us…

• …we cater (often very well) to the weaker students (whilst complaining about it)…

• …but we'd prefer it more if they were more like us

• Result: staff and students alike may become disheartened/disillusioned

The solution?• Some say not more maths grads, but better maths grads (higher entry requirements)– staff at two of the institutions in this study

want to head in this direction– will it resolve the tension between staff and

student aspirations?– what will it do to the maths 'ecosystem'?

• An alternative way of thinking…

What's really essential?

• What are the skills and attitudes that make a 'good' mathematician?

• Are they the same ones valued by employers?

What's really essential?

"what people don’t really realise about a maths degree is that it’s, it’s a skills degree and when… you go off into work…, you’re not saying, 'Oh look I can integrate this.' It’s to do with, 'Look I’m capable of thought on this level, I’m capable with this of dealing with this level of abstraction, I’m capable of using models and I’m capable of applying my brain in a really strange way, and problem solving…'. "

What's really essential?

• We could add other skills/attitudes: logical argument, the place of rigour, knowing how to approach a new problem, …

• Few of the skills are directly related to specific syllabus content…

• …yet we still design our courses around specific topics - and expect our students to pick up the important skills en-route

What's really essential?

• Focus on the skills and attitudes valued mathematicians (and employers?)

• Why do we include specific topics?– as a vehicle to develop mathematical attitudes?– to create a coherent course overall?– because the topic is needed after graduation?

• Teach less - students learn more?

• Hierarchical nature means this has to be course-wide, not within individual modules

What would we gain?• Time: to develop the missing 'basics' and the

skills and attitudes we value

• A change in attitude: overcrowded syllabi encourage many students to focus on 'how to pass' just as at A-level

• A subject that is more accessible

• A subject that develops from A-level rather than forever seeking to 'bridge the gap'.

• A happier staff and student body?

What would we lose?

• Specific topics required by future researchers (but if they've got the basics, and they're so good…)

• The reputation that maths is a hard subject

More maths grads, or better?

• More applicants overall still means courses with the top reputations can increase their entry requirements

• We need the non-high-flyers too

• We're not all the same - do potential students understand the differences?

• We need the right person on the right course

What comes next?

So having got that out of our system….

Outputs:

• Sequence of articles, reports etc

• Guide(s) – Maths @ Uni– Good Ideas online– interactive, sharing, forming a web community

• Workshops

What else comes next?• A heightened level of awareness, debate,

development (we hope)• Relationship to STEM continuation• Offer of consultancy support during Autumn

– Evaluation of changes and innovations?– You got a problem? We can tell you what other

people have done and what they learned, to help you decide what to do?

– What do you perceive we can usefully offer?

Contact us

n.challis@shu.ac.uk

m.robinson@shu.ac.uk

m.thomlinson@shu.ac.uk

www.moremathsgrads.org.uk