RealTime Transcriptions - justice.gov.za · 15 was suggesting. At best it’s unusual and rare, correct? 16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sou nie sê 17 “unusual” nie. Dit hang af oor

RealTime Transcriptions

64 10th Avenue, Highlands North, Johannesburg P O Box 721, Highlands North, 2037 Tel: 011-440-3647 Fax: 011-440-9119 Cell: 083 273-5335 E-mail: [email protected] Web Address: http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/pak06278

TRANSCRIPTION OF THE

COMMISSION OF INQUIRY

MARIKANA

BEFORE TRIBUNAL

THE HONOURABLE MR JUSTICE FARLAM (RETIRED) - CHAIRPERSON MR TOKOTA SC MS HEMRAJ SC

HELD ON

DAY 172 21 JANUARY 2014 PAGES 20241 TO 20438

© REALTIME TRANSCRIPTIONS

mailto:[email protected]

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/pak06278

21st January 2014 Marikana Commission of Inquiry Pretoria

Tel: 011 021 6457 Fax: 011 440 9119 RealTime Transcriptions Email: [email protected]

Page 202411 [PROCEEDINGS ON 21 JANUARY 2014]

2 [09:30] CHAIRPERSON: The Commission resumes.

3 Brigadier, you’re still under oath.

4 ADRIAAN MARTHINUS CALITZ: Good morning,

5 Commissioner. Dankie.

6 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu.

7 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MPOFU (CONTD.):

8 Thank you very much, Chairperson. Good morning, General –

9 Brigadier.

10 CHAIRPERSON: No, no, he’s still a

11 brigadier.

12 MR MPOFU: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON: And I hope you don’t intend

14 extending your cross-examination for so long that that

15 appellation will be appropriate.

16 MR MPOFU: Until he attains – until it

17 becomes true, no.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Baie dankie vir

19 daardie voorspoed, maar goeiemore, Advokaat. Ek waardeer,

20 dankie.

21 MR MPOFU: Okay, thank you. You remember

22 that we – just to round off a point, as the Chairperson had

23 promised that he would stop me even mid-sentence, on

24 Friday, I was just one question short of rounding off the

25 point we were busy with, namely, just to remind you,

Page 202421 whether or not there had been an occasion to your knowledge

2 where the barbed wire was rolled out in the presence of the

3 crowd. You said, I think you could only remember one

4 instance and it was near the border. You can just remind

5 me of that instance?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek dink mnr die

7 Voorsitter het gevra of daar nog 'n insident is wat ons kan

8 gebruik. Ek sê ek glo die lede het, by Ramatlabama dink ek

9 was daar op 'n stadium waar die weermag, 'n insident was

10 met Botswana, maar ek praat heeltemal onder korreksie. Ek

11 het nie die feite op hierdie stadium voor my nie.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay. Thank you. And that

13 operation that you are talking about in – was it on the

14 border of Botswana and South Africa, near the border?

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is waar

16 Ramatlabama is, ja.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Maar soos ek u

19 weereens sê, ek het nie, ek weet dit was, ek dink die groep

20 van Mafikeng. Myself, nee.

21 MR MPOFU: Okay, so in other words to

22 your personal knowledge in an operation that you were

23 involved in you’ve never seen this situation where the

24 rollout is done while the crowd is there?

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Net die een waarop ons

Page 202431 reeds getuig het.

2 MR MPOFU: And you say that operation was

3 an army operation really. Correct?

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dit is nie wat ek

5 nou vir u gesê het nie. Die een waarop ons getuig het ek

6 dink was die Vryburg insident.

7 MR MPOFU: No, no, no, we’re still

8 talking about the one near the Ramatlabama border. I’m

9 saying there was that operation, essentially an SANDF

10 operation, or was it a police operation?

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dit was 'n

12 polisie operasie gewees, maar soos ek sê, ek dra kennis

13 daarvan. Ek het nie die feite op hierdie stadium voor my

14 nie en daarom is dit bloot net spekulasie as ek vir u moet

15 antwoord.

16 MR MPOFU: Okay, no fair enough. You

17 yourself have never been personally involved in any

18 operation where the rollout was done with the crowd being

19 there?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nie daar nie, maar –

21 MR MPOFU: Anywhere.

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit waaroor ons getuig

23 het, waaroor ek en u gepraat het ook, die Vryburg insident.

24 MR MPOFU: Oh, I thought we had agreed

25 that all the other incidents the wire was positioned before

Page 202441 the crowd were at the scene.2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, die ander waarna u 3 verwys het, dink ek u het verwys na die Ventersdorp 4 insident –5 MR MPOFU: Ventersdorp.6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: En u het verwys na, ek 7 dink Bloemfontein of so iets.8 MR MPOFU: Ja.9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Daar glo ek, ek kan

10 nie vir u die feite gee daar nie.11 MR MPOFU: Ja, look, we don’t have to go 12 through nitpicking. The point of the matter really is that 13 this idea of rolling out barbed wire when a hostile crowd 14 is present, I won’t say it’s unprecedented, which is what I 15 was suggesting. At best it’s unusual and rare, correct?16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sou nie sê 17 “unusual” nie. Dit hang af oor die omstandighede op die 18 dag en dit is hoekom die beplanning dan so was dat dit in 19 die beplanning ingeskryf was as fase 2 en dit was, die doel 20 gehad vir 'n “show of force” vir daardie dag.21 MR MPOFU: No, Brigadier, I don’t think 22 we understand each other. I accept that that’s what 23 happened there, but all I’m saying is that if you are 24 yourself struggling to find another example of something 25 happening, that must at the very least suggest that it’s



Page 202451 something that’s unusual, that doesn’t happen often. Do 2 you understand?3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit gebeur nie elke 4 dag nie, nee.5 MR MPOFU: Ja, and I’ll go so far as to 6 say that the idea of rolling out barbed wire in the 7 presence of a hostile crowd is not just unusual, it’s 8 inappropriate. What would you say to that?9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek sal nie saam

10 met u stem nie.11 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, are you going to 12 follow up that question or not?13 MR MPOFU: No, Chairperson, I was going 14 to move on.15 CHAIRPERSON: You see, how would you 16 respond to this criticism if it were put to you; if you are 17 uncoiling barbed wire in the presence of a hostile crowd in 18 order to prevent them from going to a particular point, and 19 if it’s going to take you 10 minutes or so to uncoil the 20 wire to do that, how can you eliminate the possibility that 21 they will then seek to take advantage of the fact that the 22 wire is not fully uncoiled to go where you don’t want them 23 to go? I can understand if it all happens in two minutes, 24 but we’ve gone over that ground; it’s not practically 25 feasible to do that, but you’re uncoiling wire because you

Page 202461 want to prevent a hostile crowd from going in a particular

2 direction, and as you’re uncoiling the wire they see what

3 you’re up to. They realise amongst other things that

4 you’re trying to stop them from going where they want to

5 go, and so the natural thing for them to do will be to go

6 there as fast as they can before the wire closes them off.

7 So the criticism which I take it is going to be argued

8 later is that it’s not sensible, unless you really have to,

9 to uncoil wire in the presence of a hostile crowd to

10 prevent them going somewhere because it will provoke the

11 very thing that you want to prevent, namely a rush by the

12 crowd to the place that you’re trying to prevent them going

13 to. That’s basically your point, is it, Mr Mpofu?

14 MR MPOFU: That’s the point, thanks,

15 Chairperson.

16 CHAIRPERSON: Alright, would you like to

17 deal with Mr Mpofu’s point?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek

19 kan maar net weer teruggaan op wat ons voorheen getuig het,

20 dat met die inligting wat tot ons beskikking was op daardie

21 stadium en die doel van die operasie, met ander woorde die

22 fases, fase 1 en 2, dit was bespreek in die JOCCOM

23 vergadering en met al die rolspelers wat daar gesit het en

24 al die “inputs” wat gegee is was dit net nooit voorsien dat

25 hulle op daardie stadium sou storm. Ons het wel verwag dat

Page 202471 as ons begin het met die arrestasie gedeelte en die

2 waarskuwing, dat daar miskien 'n konfrontasie sou gewees

3 het, maar ek kan miskien net getuig uit die ondervinding

4 uit wat ons het en die geskiedenis dat dit nog nooit gebeur

5 het nie. Die persone het altyd wegbeweeg. Sou daar enige

6 formasie vorm, sou daar enige aksie wees deur die polisie

7 was die natuurlike ding vir die persone om gewoonlik weg te

8 beweeg en dit is in al die ondervinding wat ons oor die

9 jare – en ek dink dit is miskien waarop die JOCCOM dan ook

10 die fase 2 in proses gesit het wel nadat – dis die tweede

11 vraag wat u my gevra het is die “uncoiling” van “barbed

12 wire” 1, dit is ja, waar ek wel gesien het hoe hulle

13 gereageer het.

14 MR MPOFU: Thank you. Did I understand

15 you correctly that in previous incidents, similar

16 obviously, not the same, the hostile crowd would either

17 throw petrol bombs at you, I think was an example that you

18 gave, or move away in the opposite direction? Did I

19 understand you correctly?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, dit is korrek.

21 Hulle sal wegbeweeg van wat ook al ons as 'n “defensive

22 measure” in plek sit.

23 MR MPOFU: Yes, so then that’s exactly

24 the point. I’m sorry to belabour this point, but it’s

25 important. That’s the point that the Chairperson and I’m

Page 202481 putting to you, which is – now let’s replace petrol bombs

2 with spears, so just even from your own experience it was

3 predictable that it’s either they’re going to move away,

4 which is great, or they will throw the “petrol bombs” which

5 they have, namely they will attack you with whatever they

6 have. So once again the question then is let’s eliminate

7 the great idea that they might run away, which – because it

8 didn’t happen. So surely then what you should have

9 foreseen is that they will do what those petrol bomb crowds

10 usually do and attack with whatever. Whether it’s stones

11 or petrol bombs or spears, for the purpose of this question

12 is not material, but the point is that you would foresee

13 that like those previous other crowds they would attack.

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter,

15 weereens ek dink die Advokaat kombineer die twee. Ek het

16 duidelik getuig dit is twee aparte insidente. Waar ons nie

17 voorsien het nie was waar was die “defensive measure” in

18 plek sit, het dit - in hierdie geval die “barbed wire” –

19 het dit in 'n gewone onlustevoorval waar ons menigte male

20 die Nyalas in 'n lyn sit en dan die Openbare Orde

21 Polisiëring met hulle uniforms, die skilde en goed

22 “deploy.” In daardie geval, ek praat van die “defensive

23 measure,” het die persone altyd wegbeweeg. Daar was nog

24 nooit 'n aanval op ons in daardie geval nie. Dreigemente

25 ja, die mense gaan terug en hulle begin goed skreeu en, en,



Page 202491 en, maar waar ons dan die waarskuwing gee om uiteen te dryf

2 en waar ons dan nadergaan - dit is die tweede deel - met

3 die “dispersion action,” dit is waar ons altyd 'n

4 konfrontasie in al die gevalle optel waar die persone dan

5 “disperse” en gearresteer word. So dit is nie dieselfde

6 enkel geval waarna u verwys nie; dis twee aparte –

7 MR MPOFU: Alright, okay. We’ll leave

8 that for argument.

9 CHAIRPERSON: Before you leave it for

10 argument, prima facie it seems to me that we can accept

11 that you didn’t foresee it because if you had foreseen it

12 you would have acted differently. But the question of

13 course is whether you should have foreseen it and whether a

14 reasonable person would have foreseen it. Now Brigadier

15 Mkhwanazi who gave evidence testified that in his

16 experience it does sometimes happen that the – I haven’t

17 got the reference but it can be found reasonably easily, I

18 hope – that there had been instances where barbed wire had

19 been uncoiled and the hostile crowd concerned has then

20 advanced forward to get through before the wire is

21 completely in place.

22 Sorry, I’m corrected by Adv Hemraj, who’s got a

23 clear recollection of it. What he said was it wasn’t put

24 quite the way I put it, but he said have you, in your

25 experience have protesters ever approached barbed wire

Page 202501 which is being put in position, and he said yes that has

2 been his experience. But if anything turns on it we can

3 find the reference. But anyway, that’s not your

4 experience.

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is glad nie my

6 “experience” nie. Ek weet Brigadier Mkhwanazi was vir jare

7 in opleiding voor hy jaar, twee jaar terug Openbare Orde

8 Polisiëring se hoof geword het. So hy was by opleiding

9 betrokke, so miskien in daardie sessies het die voorbeeld

10 dan voorgekom. Ek sal dit nie ontken as hy vir ons daardie

11 voorbeeld genoem het nie, maar in my ondervinding en die

12 persone wat in die JOCCOM was en wat deel was van hierdie

13 besprekings, met al daardie ondervinding om daardie tafel

14 was dit nie voorsien nie, mnr die Voorsitter.

15 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair, is the case Mr

16 Mpofu is making that the police ought to have reasonably

17 foreseen that the strikers would attack the police line?

18 Because as far as I’ve always understood his case they were

19 going home.

20 CHAIRPERSON: Let’s see what answer he

21 gives to that question.

22 MR MPOFU: Chairperson, the test for

23 reasonableness is, as far as I know, tested by putting the

24 person that you are testing in the position of the so-

25 called reasonable man. What I’m doing now is simply to say

Page 202511 that the reasonable man that we are talking about now is

2 Brigadier Calitz, but I’m saying Brigadier Calitz – and as

3 we all know, that test has both a subjective and objective

4 element. Let’s start with the subjective. He subjectively

5 believes that these people are hostile. 3 to 4 000 of them

6 are going to, are willing to attack. They act as one group

7 with this murderous intent. He is in possession of

8 intelligence from the morning that they will never

9 surrender their arms. He himself in terms of paragraph 19

10 of his statement believes that at no stage will they ever

11 surrender, and so on, and so on. So that’s the subjective

12 part.

13 Now what we then have to do is to say that’s what

14 he subjectively believed. Would a reasonable man – and

15 that’s where the objective part comes in – would a

16 reasonable man in that position, believing all the things

17 that he believes, or should have acted the way he did.

18 That’s the simple reasonable man test. The fact that I may

19 contest some of those five or six things that he

20 subjectively believed is completely irrelevant for the

21 purposes of this line of questioning. Thank you, Chair.

22 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mpofu. That,

23 for want of a better word, is Mr Mpofu’s short answer to

24 the question that you put. Mr Mpofu, would you like to

25 carry on?

Page 202521 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson. Now I

2 forgot my next question. Let’s say that the, while we’re

3 on this thing of, while we are still on this

4 reasonableness, there’s also – you would agree, wouldn’t

5 you, that the citizens of South Africa, as your paymaster,

6 as it were, are also entitled to certain reasonable minimum

7 standards of how a person in your position should behave,

8 or SAPS as an institution should behave? Would that be a

9 fair thing to say?

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek is nie seker ek

11 verstaan die vraag direk nie.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay, I’ll ask it differently.

13 Is there in your view a minimum reasonable level of

14 expectation of behaviour which the citizens are entitled to

15 on the part of yourself and SAPS generally?

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, as

17 ek dit miskien so kan antwoord; die polisie is daar om lewe

18 en eiendom te beskerm, maak nie saak, ongeag, dit is

19 onpartydig.

20 MR MPOFU: Ja. No, no, that I accept

21 that they must maintain law and order, and so on. All I’m

22 saying is that in the course of doing exactly that, in the

23 course of maintaining law and order, protecting the public

24 peace and so on, obviously they can’t just do anything and

25 just, you know, “sommer” do anything. Is there a minimum



Page 202531 level of expectation that the citizens are entitled to in

2 their performance of that very important duty?


4 weet nie, miskien verstaan ek net nie die vraag nie. Ek

5 sal weereens vir u sê –

6 MR MPOFU: Okay, no fine –

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - die polisie is daar

8 om wet en orde te handhaaf en die publiek het sekerlik die

9 reg om dan veilig te voel in die uitvoering van ons pligte,

10 as ek die vraag reg verstaan. Ons doen dit onpartydig –

11 CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, I understand

12 all that. I think Mr Mpofu understands that, but he

13 actually seems to be after something else. Obviously the

14 police are there to maintain law and order, protect life

15 and property, and so forth, but he’s concerned about the

16 manner in which they do that, and my understanding of his

17 question is do you say that the police can approach that on

18 a sort of no-holds-barred basis, do anything in order to

19 maintain law and order, whatever that thing, or that may

20 be, or are there certain minimum rules which apply, which

21 the public are entitled to assume will be adhered to by the

22 police in the carrying out of their duties? I think that’s

23 your question, Mr Mpofu.

24 MR MPOFU: That’s it, Chairperson, ja.


Page 202541 kan maar net sê dat ons het voorskrifte, ons eie Staande

2 Order 262, die wetgewing wat duidelik sê dat die gebruik

3 van geweld moet met omsigtigheid, highest degree of

4 tolerance. So as dit is wat u sê, ja dit is wat die

5 publiek dan kan verwag.

6 [09:50] MR MPOFU: Okay, no, that’s a fair

7 answer. I think it's obvious that it's, that the

8 prescripts as we call them in the commission to our

9 shorthand represent those standards. But I was talking

10 about something broader, but it's fine, I think it's better

11 if I do it question by question. Would you agree that it

12 would fall below that standard for members of SAPS to be

13 laughing around dead bodies?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek kan dit in twee

15 antwoord maar ja nee dat daar is nie ‘n grap as mens

16 rondom, ek wil weereens vir u sê die omstandighede speel ‘n

17 belangrike rol. In hierdie geval kan mens wel sê dat ek

18 weet van daar is ‘n navraag studies gedoen in hierdie geval

19 wat hulle, ek is nie seker wat is die Engelse woord nie,

20 black humour, is hoe die verskillende persone dan hulle

21 trauma verwerk en die studies het gewys partykeer is dit

22 miskien laat die ouens in ‘n traumatiese situasie van ?

23 komiese ding gebruik maak of iets sê om die, so daar is

24 studies wat ek van weet en wat ek van gehoor het in die

25 geval maar ek sal saam met u stem dat dit is nie, daar is

Page 202551 niks snaaks aan dooie persone om daar te staan en lag.

2 MR MPOFU: Yes, so it's unacceptable to

3 you that people should behave that way and laugh around

4 dead bodies, correct?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Van my as ‘n leke

6 persoon sou ek sê ja maar soos ek weereens vir u sê ek weet

7 daar is verdere studies gedoen in hierdie verband wat wel

8 bewys dat in sekere traumatiese gevalle dit wel voorkom.

9 Maar, ja.

10 MR MPOFU: And would it also, in your

11 view fall below that minimum standard to drag bodies of

12 dead or injured people on the ground as we have seen in

13 some of the videos?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: We talk about Marikana

15 or the dragging of the bodies behind other videos or we

16 talk about only Marikana?

17 MR MPOFU: We’re talking Marikana only.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Okay.

19 MR MPOFU: Scene 1 in particular.

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Scene 1 it depends on,

21 again on what happened in front of you and what the persons

22 there saw. If it's dragging a body by meters I will say no

23 that’s inhumane, if it is to remove a person that was most

24 probably moving away from a object it depends on the

25 matter. But it must be, ek antwoord in Engels, dit moet

Page 202561 nog steeds diskreet wees met die nodige omsigtigheid.

2 MR MPOFU: But ja on the face of it the

3 dragging of a body even by a few metres would be something

4 unacceptable would it?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit hang weereens van

6 die omstandighede af, mnr die Voorsitter. Ek sou sê -

7 CHAIRPERSON: You see the point as a

8 general rule it is undesirable but there may be a special

9 reason justifying it in a particular exception.

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis wat ek nou wou

11 gesê het, ja.

12 CHAIRPERSON: Is that your answer?

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis wat ek wou gesê

14 het.

15 CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: In die algemene breë

17 sense ja stem ek saam.

18 MR MPOFU: And isn’t, the dragging of

19 bodies in that sense, in the sense that we saw in the

20 videos doesn't it also become unacceptable apart from the

21 human factor, from the point of view of not tampering with

22 a scene?

23 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Vra jy vir my of dat

24 as indien u ‘n body beweeg of dit ‘n tampering is van ‘n

25 toneel?



Page 202571 MR MPOFU: No, no –

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Is dit die vraag, ek

3 wil net seker maak.

4 MR MPOFU: No, sorry, no it was a vague

5 question, ja. What I’m saying is I’m, I’ve now criticised

6 or you and I have discussed the issue of dragging of bodies

7 from the point of view of, what I said is the minimum

8 standard that the citizenry is excepted or may expect from

9 the police. I’m saying now let’s look at it just now from

10 a technical point of view, forget the citizenry. Isn't it

11 also unacceptable from the point of view of tampering with

12 the scene in the sense that if this body was lying here

13 facing north that might have something to do with the

14 investigation of the murder of that person as opposed to

15 the fact that it is now facing east because someone has

16 dragged it along.

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, in

18 die algemeen miskien weereens soos die vorige vraag. In

19 die algemeen kan dit daarop neerkom. Dit hang van die

20 omstandighede af waarom daardie persoon geskuif is as daar

21 ‘n wapen onder die persoon was of iets en hy is beweeg en

22 daardie wapen is weggeneem sal die liggaam in ‘n ander

23 rigting lê. Maar ek sien dit nie as, soos verwys as

24 tampering nie, dit is die hantering van ‘n misdaad toneel.

25 CHAIRPERSON: The point applies, we’ve

Page 202581 discussed before in general it's undesirable to move bodies

2 around because there’s, the first aspect, the human aspect

3 that Mr Mpofu has referred to which we’ve discussed already

4 and then there’s the question of it changes the scene

5 which, insofar as inferences that later can be drawn from

6 the way bodies were lying and positions of one body in

7 relation to another. Those inference can no longer be

8 drawn because the scene has been changed. But again there

9 may be exceptional circumstances like the fear that there’s

10 a weapon under a body and that’s the reason for acting.

11 But that would be the exception of the rule. Is that what

12 you’re saying, is that right?

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is presies wat ek

14 gesê het, mnr die Voorsitter, baie dankie.

15 MR MPOFU: Yes, and once again the

16 follow-up question is, I think you’ve answered it, in other

17 words until we are told or some evidence is brought here as

18 to why the bodies were dragged and why the people were

19 laughing and so on and so on, on the face of it, it's

20 something unacceptable, correct?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: In die algemene reël

22 wat ons nou net bespreek het, in die algemeen weereens wat

23 mnr die Voorsitter gesê het sal ek saam met u stem.

24 MR MPOFU: Ja.

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: In die geval van

Page 202591 Marikana en die situasie wat hom afgespeel het en die

2 omstandighede glo ek dit moet ook in ag geneem word wat

3 daar plaasgevind het.

4 MR MPOFU: Are you aware of allegations

5 that the strikers or the protestors were assaulted by

6 members of the police, that’s the first question.

7 CHAIRPERSON: That's bit vague, surely

8 you’d have to indicate where and when.

9 MR MPOFU: Yes. Okay.

10 CHAIRPERSON: Some of the, I know there

11 are allegations that certain of the arrested persons might

12 well have been assaulted while in custody.

13 MR MPOFU: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON: I’m not sure that we need

15 go there because I’m not sure how relevant it is to the

16 questions we have to answer. But the question you phrase,

17 as you phrased it is wide enough to cover that.

18 MR MPOFU: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON: So perhaps you should

20 restrict the ambit of the question so that we can get a

21 meaningful answer.

22 MR MPOFU: Yes, thank you, Chairperson.

23 Fair enough, yes, I’m not talking about assaults in custody

24 and so on. Are you aware of allegations of assaults being

25 meted out against the strikers during the operation, in

Page 202601 other words between the time of scene 1 and let’s say the

2 departures of the Canters with the arrested people?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, mnr die

4 Voorsitter.

5 MR MPOFU: And once again if such

6 assaults took place that would be below the reasonable

7 standards to –

8 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, the answer to

9 that one must clearly be yes.

10 MR MPOFU: Well –

11 CHAIRPERSON: If there were assaults and

12 they weren’t done in self defence or whatever, in –

13 MR MPOFU: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON: Which case they’d be

15 justified, if they were assaults clearly they would be

16 unacceptable because that would amount to criminal offences

17 committed by the assaulters and that clearly would be

18 unacceptable. So I don’t know you need get the views of

19 the Brigadier on that. The answer is self evident, isn’t

20 it?

21 MR MPOFU: Well, Chairperson, I thought

22 the answer to the dragging was self evident but I

23 understand that there are exceptions. So there may be

24 exceptions why people might –

25 CHAIRPERSON: Once you use the word



Page 202611 assault, assault means it is an offence because it's an

2 assault. If there was justification of some time, it was

3 done in self defence or whatever then it wouldn’t be an

4 assault would it. So the way the question is phrased the

5 answer is obvious and so I suggest you move on to your next

6 point.

7 MR MPOFU: Okay.

8 CHAIRPERSON: On the assumption that the

9 answer to your question has to be yes.

10 MR MPOFU: Okay well then I won't use the

11 technical term of assault. Were you aware that there were

12 beatings of protesters and if so would that be unacceptable

13 or does it depend on the circumstances?


15 nee ek is glad nie bewus daarvan nie en indien dit wel

16 voorgekom het soos u gesê het assault dit bly ‘n kriminele

17 klag. So dit is ‘n definisie op sy eie en dit is nie, dit

18 is onwettig.

19 CHAIRPERSON: But Mr Mpofu is now

20 changing his ground a bit, he says are you aware of

21 allegations that some of the strikers were hit –

22 MR MPOFU: Beaten up.

23 CHAIRPERSON: Beaten up, if you weren’t

24 aware of such allegations well then the answer must be, if

25 you never heard such allegations so we can move on. You

Page 202621 say if you’ve heard of such allegations that further

2 questions will follow. Have you heard of such allegations?


4 Voorsitter, en daar was ‘n tweede vraag indien nie sou ek

5 sê dit was justified, dit was die tweede deel van sy vraag.

6 So ek sê net ek dra nie kennis nie, en sou dit wel so wees

7 sal dit nie wettig wees nie.

8 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Mr Mpofu, these

9 beatings alleged to have taken place during the arrest

10 process?

11 MR MPOFU: Yes, Commissioner, I’ve just

12 unfortunately lost my JJJ number.

13 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, I take it you’re

14 going to be busy until after tea?

15 MR MPOFU: Yes, I can do it after tea.

16 CHAIRPERSON: You can do it after tea.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes, I just didn’t want to hop

18 back to –

19 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I understand but it's

20 better sometimes to do that.

21 MR MPOFU: Which I passed onto Mr Semenya

22 last week, if maybe he can help me with this JJJ number.

23 Chairperson, if you’ll just bear with me, I think it's just

24 better that I finish this off.

25 CHAIRPERSON: I’m bearing with you, Mr

Page 202631 Mpofu.2 MR MPOFU: Alright, I’ll move on. I’ll 3 move on.4 CHAIRPERSON: I’m bearing with you. It's 5 alright.6 MR MPOFU: Oh you are bearing with me. 7 Thank you, Chairperson. Alright, we’ll come back to it, 8 unfortunately it's my fault, I just didn’t - now I want to 9 understand something about this idea of the neutral area.

10 You know what that means hey?11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek.12 MR MPOFU: Ja. Okay I’ve asked this 13 question from one or two other people but they said they 14 were not there and so on, so you maybe you’ll be able to 15 help me. Can you go to exhibit L191. Brigadier, sorry I 16 asked you a question, you are familiar with the notion of 17 the neutral area?18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is wat ek sê ja, 19 mnr die Voorsitter, die term het opgekom.20 MR MPOFU: Ja.21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Alhoewel ek nie in die 22 voorligting gebruik was nie maar ek sal sover moontlik -23 MR MPOFU: Ja.24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: U kan -25 MR MPOFU: I’m sorry I didn’t realise you

Page 202641 had answered. Now this is what I’ve put to other people

2 and I’ve other gotten different answers or vague answers,

3 maybe you can assist. Am I correct that as depicted there

4 the neutral area is represented by the horseshoe

5 arrangement that is formed by those Nyalas from the kraal

6 50 metres and from the crowd about 80 metres? And by

7 horseshoe arrangement I’ll use the point now just to

8 indicate, I mean this formation, it might not be a perfect

9 horseshoe but you know about this, I mean that formation,

10 in other words is that the neutral area inside that

11 horseshoe?

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek sal meer

13 daarna verwys as die safe zone, dit is wat ons verwys het -

14 MR MPOFU: Ja.

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As die veiligheidsarea

16 waar die media en die polisie dan is.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes, okay I always thought

18 that the safe area and the neutral area are, were the same

19 thing but I might be wrong, I don’t know these things. Can

20 you tell me what the difference is?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die term neutral area

22 is nie regtig gebruik met die voorligting nie.

23 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry to interrupt you,

24 Brigadier, it's not entirely correct. The phrase the

25 neutral area is used in slide 195 which is part of the



Page 202651 presentation, exhibit L.

2 MR MPOFU: Yes, and it's used in

3 conjunction with your name.

4 CHAIRPERSON: It is used in fact in slide

5 137 and 138 where, under the, this is the reconstructed

6 document prepared after the event but this is, under the

7 heading operational deployment briefing, this is the JOCCOM

8 meeting that you attended 6 o'clock in the morning. If you

9 look at 136 the command, negotiation team their action area

10 was a neutral area and the central point is given and then

11 the same action area described as the neutral area is in

12 137, that’s the, for the monitoring group. Then there's

13 even a group called the neutral area response team which is

14 in 138. 139 the defensive measure team, their defensive

15 area is also the neutral area. So the neutral is referred

16 to a number of times and if you look at slide 141 we’re

17 dealing with immediate reaction area 2 this is the group of

18 74 members of national intervention unit under the command

19 of Lieutenant Colonel Modiba, their action area was merely

20 to deal with the footpath to the north of the gathering

21 adjacent to the informal settlement but their task was to

22 provide rapid response capability in the case of surprise

23 attack on police and media at neutral area and there’s

24 other references as well, I’ve got enough, I’ve given you

25 enough already. So quite clearly this phrase neutral area

Page 202661 is used over and over and over again in the presentation.

2 So Mr Mpofu is entitled to ask you what exactly was meant,

3 I know what the central point is because that’s dealt with

4 in the slides but I think you’re entitled, he’s entitled to

5 more particularity then that.


7 ‘n mens miskien kan terug gaan na die foto. As u kan sien

8 waar mnr Mpofu na verwys het, ek weet nie of u kan die rooi

9 agter u sien. Die TRT voertuie en dan daardie, hy praat

10 van ‘n horseshoe shape, met ander woorde kom ons sê waar

11 daar staan 100 meter, die swart lyn met die 100 meter dit

12 is die gedeelte waarna hy verwys het binnekant daardie

13 sirkel. Hy het gevra of dit soos ek dit verstaan het die

14 neutral area is en ek vir hom gesê nee daardie is meer wat

15 ek sal na verwys die safe zone en waar ons dan nie persone

16 binne in wou gehad het nie te beskerming van die media en

17 die publiek en wat ook daar was. Toe vra hy my wat

18 verstaan ek onder die neutral area, toe sê ek alhoewel dit

19 nie in die voorligting, ek stry nie, mnr die Voorsitter,

20 dit is wel in die presentation gemeld, die neutrale gebied

21 is die gebied wat die polisie afgeblok het.

22 [10:10] Dit is nie ’n gebied wat die protestors, soos die

23 koppie self is nie ’n neutrale gebied nie, daardie gebied

24 tussen ons voertuie is nie ’n neutrale gebied nie. Die

25 neutrale gebied is die gebied tussen die lyn, met ander

Page 202671 woorde van voor die barbed wire lyn kan ek sê na die

2 protestors toe, daardie oop spasie asook dan hierdie hele

3 gebied aan, die kaart wys noord, met ander woorde Noord,

4 Noordwes, waar die publiek dan kon vrylik beweeg, ’n

5 neutrale gebied en dit is hoe ek dit verstaan, dit is

6 daardie area waar die publiek dan toegang het om te beweeg.

7 U sal sien dat die taakgroep wat ingeroep is, die 11:30,

8 was gewees om bystand te verleen na die neutrale area.

9 U sal onthou ek getuig het dat by die klein kraal

10 was daar ’n groep wat gevorm het aan daardie kant en dit is

11 hoekom ek die reserwe magte ingeroep het, want daardie deel

12 waar die voetpad is, daardie gedeelte, dit is waar hulle

13 byeen gekom het die vorige dag. So dit is die neutrale

14 gebied, met ander woorde iets wat nie toegemaak of, dis nie

15 u gebied nie, dit is nie my gebied nie, dit is die neutrale

16 gebied tussen ons, dit is waarna dit hier verwys het, as ek

17 dit so kan verduidelik.

18 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay, let’s just get two

19 things straight, the first one is, for the first time I

20 understand from you that there is a difference between the

21 neutral area and the safe area, am I correct?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek soos ek

23 getuig het.

24 MR MPOFU: Okay, and so the horseshoe

25 arrangement that I’ve defined, you say that is the safe

Page 202681 area?

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, die persone kon

3 nie in daardie gedeelte vrylik net inbeweeg nie, nee.

4 MR MPOFU: Yes, the public is not or

5 rather people, the public that is not welcome, unlike the

6 media because they are the public, but they were supposed

7 to be there –

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: I would not say not

9 welcome, maybe more restricted area.

10 MR MPOFU: No, no, -

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Controlled area.

12 MR MPOFU: Yes.

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As ek die regte woorde

14 kan probeer gebruik.

15 MR MPOFU: No, I’m putting exactly it in

16 that sense that members of the public accepted by

17 permission of the police would not be allowed in the safe

18 area.

19 BRIGADIER CALITZ: In die safe area, nee,

20 korrek.

21 MR MPOFU: Yes, okay. Now, so now we

22 know what the safe area is. The neutral area as I

23 understand it, members of the public are allowed in the

24 neutral area, correct?

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die protestors, as u



Page 202691 sê members of the public –

2 MR MPOFU: Ja, the protestors.

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: The public, sou iemand

4 soontoe wou kom sou dit ook die tipe van beheerde toegang

5 wees, ons sou, jy weet as ’n persoon net van die media

6 byvoorbeeld soontoe wou ry met ’n voertuig dan sou ons vir

7 daardie persoon advies gegee het en gesê het en wat die

8 omstandighede is en, en, en, maar hulle het vrylik toegang

9 gehad om te beweeg en daar miskien waar die woorde “80

10 meter” staan, asook altwee 80 meters, die geel en die wit,

11 in daardie gedeelte was vrylike beweging gewees.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay, once again I just want

13 to be sure that we understand each understand. The

14 protestors would be allowed in the neutral area, yes?

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Op die stadium, ja, en

16 soos hulle beweeg het elke dag.

17 MR MPOFU: Good, now the neutral area is

18 not a moving target as it were, as the chairperson just

19 showed you, we are even given its midpoint dimensions and

20 what have you, so the neutral area is the neutral area. It

21 does not move from place to place, correct?


23 dit hang weer van omstandighede af, ’n neutral gebied, sou

24 daar aksie geloods words –

25 CHAIRPERSON: No, I’m sorry to interrupt

Page 202701 you, he is not talking about general, I think he is talking

2 about at Marikana, what was called neutral area was always

3 a fixed concept with fixed boundaries and it wasn’t

4 something that was variable or fixable, it was a clearly

5 demarcated area that remained the same. I think that’s the

6 question you’re asking?

7 MR MPOFU: That’s correct, Chairperson.

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, na

9 die implementering van fase 3, sekere van daardie punte is

10 dan nie meer ’n neutrale, onthou ek het gesê dit hang van

11 die omstandighede af, dit hang af van wat is jou

12 operasionele fases waarnatoe jy beweeg, so dit kan gebeur

13 dat daardie neutrale area dan deel word van ’n operasionele

14 area in die sin van die woord.

15 MR MPOFU: Okay, maybe let me approach it

16 differently, from the point of view of the protestors given

17 that horseshoe formation, it would have been obvious they

18 can't just be wondering around there, that’s the place that

19 specifically defined by Nyalas and if you just go there

20 basically you’re asking for trouble, correct?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, ek sal nie “asking

22 for trouble” nie, maar dit was ’n beheerde, as hulle

23 soontoe sou gegaan het sou daar wel met hulle gekommunikeer

24 gewees het en sekere beperkinge gestel geword het.

25 MR MPOFU: And by contrast in the neutral

Page 202711 area as you defined it, they would know that they are free

2 and welcome to move up and down without any trouble?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink soos u op

4 hierdie foto sien, daardie beweging in the areas wat ek

5 gesê het is daar wel persone wat op en af daar beweeg, so

6 gegewe die foto wat ons hier sien en die beweging is dit

7 ook korrek.

8 MR MPOFU: Yes, and that’s exactly the

9 point. So the people who are moving that you are referring

10 to in 191, they are moving on that road to Nkaneng which

11 goes in front of the kraal, that they were free to do?

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Sê net weer, ek het

13 die laaste woord, that they would?

14 MR MPOFU: Okay, no, I am saying the

15 people that you have referred to are moving on that road to

16 Nkaneng, so according to you that was not part of the

17 prohibited area?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek het gesê op hierdie

19 foto, u kan sien daar is persone wat op die voetpad beweeg

20 asook in ’n meer noord-westelike rigting, Nkaneng, daar was

21 nie net die een pad gebruik nie, die hele veld, u kan sien

22 hoe die mense beweeg in hierdie foto.

23 MR MPOFU: So if that road is, as you

24 defined it, then we can be sure that it was, insofar as

25 people died before they reached that road they were not in

Page 202721 the prohibited area?

2 MR SEMENYA SC: The question is unclear

3 to me, Chair.

4 MR MPOFU: Okay.

5 MR SEMENYA SC: Where that road is.

6 MR MPOFU: Okay, I’ll break it down.

7 We’ve agreed that those people who are walking on that road

8 are not walking on the prohibited area, correct?

9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek het vir u gesê dat,

10 die “prohibited” het u nou verwys na ’n neutrale gebied

11 toe, is dit waarna u verwys of verwys u na die safe area?

12 Die persone wat daar loop op hierdie stadium het ons gesê

13 loop op die neutrale gebied, met ander woorde dit is die

14 gebied wat die persone vrylik in, as u sê Nkaneng, beweeg

15 het, to and from. Die persone wat tans daar beweeg en ook

16 hier aan die noord-westekant, dit is die neutrale gebied.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As ek u reg verstaan

19 het.

20 MR MPOFU: No, you do, yes, and it is not

21 the safe area?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, die safe area is

23 agter, soos u verwys het daar na die horseshoe en ek het

24 gesê daar waar die swart 100 meter is, in daardie gebied is

25 die safe area en dit is agter die, hoe kan ek sê, die



Page 202731 negotiation line, agter the Papa Nyalas en aan die voorkant

2 van die TRT voertuie. Daardie is ’n oop beperkte gebied.

3 MR MPOFU: Yes, -

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: So dit –

5 MR MPOFU: And the safe area is also a

6 fixed place, it is there on the horse shoe and the 100

7 metres and all that, as depicted, correct?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die safe area is

9 aangedui, ja. Ek het aangedui dat die ander een waarmee u

10 besig is, die neutrale zone hang af van omstandighede af en

11 van die fases waarin daar beweeg word.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay, that’s fine but the safe

13 area does not, hang af die omstandighede, it is fixed where

14 it is there, correct?


16 dit sal, daardie voertuie sal dan ook beweeg, dit hang van

17 die fases af. Indien daar oorgegaan is na ’n fase 3 toe

18 sal daardie voertuie nie in daardie statiese posisie bly

19 nie, maar hulle sal beweeg, so dan sal die gebied agter

20 hulle dan outomaties groter raak in die rigting waarin

21 hulle gaan.

22 MR MPOFU: Alright, I think let me go

23 straight to the point that I want to argue on this and then

24 you can react. The point is this, Brigadier, that the

25 people who were killed at scene 1 were killed while they

Page 202741 were still in the free area or non prohibited area where

2 they had been freely moving up and down for the whole day,

3 including as depicted in slide 191. Do you understand the

4 point?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek verstaan wat u sê,

6 ek stem nie saam met u nie –

7 MR MPOFU: Ja, and what’s your –

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek stem nie saam met u

9 nie, Meneer.

10 MR MPOFU: Okay, you’re saying the people

11 were not killed in the area where you see people walking on

12 slide 191?


14 nee, ek weet nie hoe om dit beter uit te druk nie, die term

15 wat tot my kom, ons speel met woorde, met alle respek. Wat

16 ek gesê het is dat die neutrale gebied sal verander

17 afhangende van die fase waarnatoe ons gaan. So in die

18 Marikana geval is die fase 3 waarnatoe ons beweeg het, dan

19 het daardie deel wat die Nyalas toegemaak het voor dit

20 afgesny, met ander woorde dit is nie meer ’n neutrale

21 gebied nie. Die neutrale gebied sal dan wees die vrylike

22 oop gebied wat die protestors nog het om na heen te gaan en

23 dan sou die Nyalas vorentoe kom, die safe area. Sou hulle

24 dan beweeg sou die safe area saam met hulle beweeg, so die

25 gebied sal al kleiner en kleiner, as ek dit vir u so kan

Page 202751 verduidelik.

2 MR MPOFU: No, Brigadier, that can’t be

3 acceptable, that is exactly why I was asking you those

4 earlier questions, it was to prevent you from doing what

5 you are doing now if shifting according to the question.

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, -

7 MR MPOFU: That’s why I asked you those –

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil net sê, mnr die

9 Voorsitter, ek het nie ge-shift van question tot question

10 nie. Toe u my in die begin gevra het en die rekord sal

11 wys, dat die neutrale area, bly dit altyd, is dit ’n fixed

12 position en my antwoord was nog voor ek geweet het waarna,

13 wat hierdie vraag was, het ek gesê dat dit bly nie fixed

14 nie, dit hang van die fases af, waarnatoe die operasionele

15 operasie beweeg. So dit is nie dat ek geskuif het net

16 omdat u die vraag gevra het nie en die antwoord was al

17 gegee vroeër.

18 MR MPOFU: In any event the point is

19 simply this, where the people were killed was an area even

20 before the road, in other words it was an area where they

21 were free to move for the whole day, up and down, as we can

22 see in slide 191, correct?

23 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Vir die hele dag tot

24 en met die tyd –

25 MR MPOFU: Well, until they were killed

Page 202761 obviously.


3 Voorsitter, nie tot hulle, nog voor dit, tot die opdrag

4 gegee is dat die draad toegemaak word, so daar, wat daardie

5 fase begin het was daardie gebied afgesny gewees vir die

6 protestors.

7 MR MPOFU: Ja, very good, so until the

8 point that Nyala 4 closed off that road, the people had

9 been moving up and down on it, correct?

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sal sê voor Nyala 1

11 beweeg het, het die persone op en af daar beweeg, nie net

12 Nyala 4 nie.

13 MR MPOFU: Yes, and that happened until

14 Nyala 4 closed the road, correct?

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nyala 4 het dan wel

16 daardie gaping toegemaak, dit is korrek.

17 MR MPOFU: Ja, thank you. The next

18 point, still using 191, is that you see that there are

19 people, that’s Nyala 6, am I correct, nearest to the kraal?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die voertuig naaste

21 aan die klein kraal, dit is Nyala6, dit is korrek.

22 MR MPOFU: Ja, and at that point we see

23 the people who are running down, on either side of Nyala 6,

24 correct?

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, ek kan die persone



Page 202771 nie sien hardloop nie, maar ek sien daar is persone wat aan

2 beide kante van Nyala 6 beweeg.

3 MR MPOFU: Ja, well, it is the police

4 version that they were running, so if they were running

5 they are running on either side of 6, correct?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As hulle wel

7 gehardloop het en u sê dit is so, daar is bewyse, ek sal

8 nie daarteen stry nie, ek sien persone aan albei kante. Ek

9 kan nie sien in watter rigting hulle gaan, vorentoe of

10 agtertoe nie, maar ja, ek sien persone aan albei kante, dit

11 is korrek.

12 MR MPOFU: And none of them were

13 prohibited from doing so?


15 sien hier is op 15:40, ek weet nie wat is die regte tyd van

16 die foto nie, ek weet daar is ’n timeline, so ek dink ons

17 kan dit vasstel.

18 MR MPOFU: At 15:40.

19 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Volgens die foto maar

20 ons weet die kamera is nie ge-sequence met die regte ETV

21 tyd nie, so dit is net hoekom ek sê ek is nie seker op

22 watter stadium die tyd van hierdie foto die regte tyd is

23 nie.

24 MR MPOFU: But you know what stage it is

25 in relation to the other SAPS times, let’s use just the

Page 202781 SAPS times. SAPS says for example, Mathunjwa was there at

2 15:35 and so on, so on SAPS own version at 15:40 those

3 people were not prohibited from walking on either side of

4 that Nyala or running, whatever they were doing.


6 nee, ek verskil, my getuienis was op 15:40 het mnr

7 Mathunjwa weg beweeg, op hierdie foto sien ek hom nie, sy

8 voertuig, tensy ek miskien kan wys waar sy voertuig

9 wegbeweeg en waar is sy voertuig en dan om 15:40 het ons

10 dan gesê dat Nyala 1 het begin met die uitrol van die draad

11 wat ons dan kan sien Nyala 1 staties is terug. So ek neem

12 aan hierdie foto moet dan net so ’n bietjie op ’n vroeëre

13 stadium wees.

14 MR CHASKALSON SC: Maybe I can assist

15 here, this is the photograph just at the start of the

16 rollout because although Nyala 1 is in fact not static it

17 is pulled away, just away from the fence of the power

18 station and, Mr Brigadier, you’re correct, Mr Mathunjwa’s

19 vehicle has already passed behind the mountain at this

20 stage, behind the koppie.

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Okay, dit is net

22 hoekom ek sê my getuienis op 15:40 is toe ek gesien het dat

23 mnr Mathunjwa ry, so vir hom om, om die koppie te gaan –

24 MR MPOFU: Okay –

25 CHAIRPERSON: Okay, Mr Mpofu, they waited

Page 202791 for Mr Mathunjwa to go before they started uncoiling the

2 wire. They didn’t wait very long but they waited, -

3 MR MPOFU: Yes –

4 CHAIRPERSON: - so won’t you accept that

5 Nyala 1 has already moved away slightly to the power

6 station, it follows, because Mr Mathunjwa must have gone?

7 MR MPOFU: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON: There is a white dot there

9 just under the word “mobilising” which may be his vehicle,

10 I don’t know.

11 MR MPOFU: Yes, no, Chairperson, let’s

12 take Mr Mathunjwa out of this, that is just, the point is –

13 CHAIRPERSON: You’re using him to help

14 you to ascertain the time?

15 MR MPOFU: No, it is me who started the

16 Mathunjwa thing, but now that Mr Chaskalson has clarified I

17 don’t want to use Mathunjwa, but the point is by the time

18 that Nyala1 had started unrolling its wire those people

19 were allowed to be where they were, whatever time it was.


21 toe ons dit getuig, ek kan nie onthou presies wanneer of op

22 watter stadium dit was nie, toe Nyala1 begin het, selfs toe

23 mnr Mathunjwa, - ekskuus tog, selfs toe mnr Mathunjwa,

24 ekskuus tog, ek het gesien u gesels, ek wil net seker maak

25 u hoor die antwoord.

Page 202801 MR MPOFU: No, I don’t think the

2 chairperson –

3 CHAIRPERSON: He is leaning forward with

4 his finger on his microphone but –

5 MR CHASKALSON SC: I just wanted to give

6 the time because there seems to be a debate around it, it

7 is 15:42:35, 15:42:35.

8 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for those 2

9 minutes and 50 seconds, Mr Chaskalson.

10 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson. Quite

11 frankly I don’t, I’ve moved away.

12 CHAIRPERSON: May I interrupt you, Mr

13 Mpofu?

14 MR MPOFU: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brigadier, not to waste

16 time, the fact is this is 15:42:50, the order has been

17 given by Colonel Makhubela for the wire to be uncoiled, we

18 see that because the Nyala1 has moved, or you gave the

19 order. You gave the order to Brigadier Makhubela, and

20 presumably the, sorry?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: To Colonel Makhubela.

22 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, to Colonel Makhubela,

23 sorry, I apologise to him for promoting him prematurely.

24 You gave the order to him and the uncoiling process began.

25 At that stage we can see from the photograph that some of



Page 202811 the strikers were in the area which was to the east of what

2 was going to be the line of the barbed wire fence and they

3 were allowed to proceed undisturbed, that’s correct, isn’t

4 it?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek, mnr die

6 Voorsitter.

7 CHAIRPERSON: Ja, so that’s Mr Mpofu’s

8 point.

9 MR MPOFU: Thank you, thank you,

10 Chairperson, thank you very much. Alright, I’ll leave it

11 like that. It is correct that the media, according to your

12 plans and what you foresaw, the media was supposed to be

13 confined to what is called the safe area, in other words

14 they were supposed to be some 50 metres away from the

15 kraal, correct?

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dit is nie korrek

17 nie, die media is nie 50 meter nie, dit is die Papa Nyalas

18 van Luitenant-Kolonel Pitsi, dan sal jy ’n lang lyn

19 voertuie sien parallel met die swart lyn wat 110 meter

20 gemerk is.

21 [10:29] Dit is die TRT voertuie. Op die punt van daardie

22 lyn sal u die groot trokke sien. Dit is die Canter trokke

23 en dan net agter hulle, aan die agterkant, daardie wat

24 amper op die grondpad staan, daar het die media bymekaar

25 gekom.

Page 202821 MR MPOFU: Am I pointing at the right

2 place?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, daai kant –

4 MR MPOFU: So it’s supposed to be in that

5 vicinity?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit was waar die media

7 bymekaar gekom het, korrek.

8 MR MPOFU: Okay, so even further than the

9 safe area, basically towards the back of the safe area.

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, die media was wel

11 toegelaat. Hulle het op en af beweeg deur daardie gebied,

12 vorentoe na die protestors toe, en terug, op en af daar.

13 So tot op daardie stadium dat die opdrag gegee is.

14 MR MPOFU: No, I accept that. So what

15 I’m saying is that you are saying is that the situation is

16 even worse or better, depending which side you’re standing,

17 than what I – I said they would be 50 metres away. You are

18 saying, no, they should be more than 110 metres away.

19 CHAIRPERSON: I think there’s a

20 confusion. He’s talking about where their vehicles were.

21 You pointed out where the vehicles were, which is more than

22 50 metres, more than a 110 metres in fact away from the

23 kraal, but Mr Mpofu is busy with another point. And that

24 is a journalist who – or media person who got out of his

25 vehicle, carrying his camera or whatever, video camera or

Page 202831 ordinary camera, and walked in the direction along that

2 line that’s a 100 metres, that black line, toward back in

3 the direction of the koppie, would have presumably been

4 allowed to proceed some distance down that line. Is that

5 right?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek, Mnr die

7 Voorsitter.

8 CHAIRPERSON: And was there a point – the

9 next question is going to be, was there a point beyond

10 which, as such a journalist approached the koppie, the

11 police would not have allowed the journalist to proceed

12 further?


14 vir hulle eie veiligheid, het ons ‘n media skakelpersoon

15 gehad, Kaptein Adriao, en ek weet hy het die media bymekaar

16 geroep. Ek kan die tyd vasstel. Ek het nie nou die

17 presiese tyd nie, waar hy die media bymekaar geroep het en

18 wel vir hulle verduidelik het dat ons gaan oor na ‘n

19 taktiese fase en dit sal veiliger wees vir hulle om dan

20 agter die linie van die polisie te bly. So agter die

21 linie, dit kan wees dan soos die polisie opvolg, miskien

22 net aan die agterkant van daardie polisie voertuie.

23 CHAIRPERSON: So you say, daardie polisie

24 voertuie – those police vehicles, are you referring to the

25 line of vehicles, it’s Nyalas I take it, which are below

Page 202841 the words “100 metres” on the photograph at the what one

2 could describe as the Western end of that 100 metre arrow?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, ja

4 –

5 CHAIRPERSON: Is that the line?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sal verwys het na

7 die Papa Nyalas, so dit is daardie vyf plus die vier wat na

8 die kraal toe wys.

9 CHAIRPERSON: Those are the ones I’m

10 talking about, ja. So on foot the media people were

11 allowed to go as far as that?

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, en dan soos ons

13 opvolg –

14 CHAIRPERSON: I’m sorry to interrupt you.

15 But as you moved towards the koppie, they could proceed

16 behind you?

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek, Mnr die

18 Voorsitter.

19 CHAIRPERSON: Ja. So it would be a

20 moving boundary, as it were –

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ons wou hulle net nie

22 voor ons gehad het vir die obvious rede van as daar

23 uiteendrywing is, wil ons nie die media tussen ons en die

24 skare hê nie. Dit sou nie werk nie.

25 MR MPOFU: Okay, you’ve seen on the



Page 202851 videos where the shout of, “Media go away, media go away.”

2 At that stage, the media were where they were not supposed

3 to be, correct?

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sal nie vir u kan

5 sê op daardie stadium wie dit of wat is die bedoeling van

6 daai nie. Ek kan net my afleiding maak dat ek sal teen

7 daardie op die video gekyk het, is om vir die media te sê

8 dit is toe ons die opvolgaksie nog gehad het, op daardie

9 stadium voor ek nog bo by die draad was, neem ek aan, is

10 daardie woorde gesê, soos ek die video gekyk het. So dit

11 sal wees asof daardie persoon dan ‘n media persoon gesien

12 het wat voor die polisie voertuie was of so, en vir hom te

13 sê, “Move away” beteken val net terug, volgens die gesprek

14 met Kaptein Adriao.

15 MR MPOFU: Do you know who the person who

16 said three times, “Media go away, media go away, media go

17 away?”

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek dra nie kennis

19 nie.

20 MR MPOFU: And once again, I think I’ve

21 asked this from someone else, but if there was the

22 opportunity and the means, so to speak, to warn the media

23 three times, why was that opportunity and the means not

24 used to say to the strikers don’t cross the road, whatever

25 you did not want them to do? Or that, “Protestors go

Page 202861 away?”


3 kan nie vir u sê of die Papa Nyalas wel daardie waarskuwing

4 gegee het nie. Ek dink ek het dit raak gelees in een of

5 twee verklarings waar hulle wel gesê het hulle het vir die

6 persone gesê om weg te beweeg, maar ek kan nie nou met

7 sekerheid vir u sê deur wie is dit gesê gedoen nie.

8 MR MPOFU: But sorry, I don’t think we

9 understand each other. I’m using the term loosely now.

10 I’m saying let’s assume those statements that were used

11 against the media three times, let’s call them warnings,

12 just for the purposes of this question, they might not

13 qualify with the prescripts and all that, but I’m saying if

14 those “warnings” could be given to the media, that would

15 mean there was an opportunity to do so and the means. In

16 other words, the audible means to do so. Why was that

17 opportunity and means not also used to “warn” the strikers

18 either not proceed any further or to stop right there or to

19 go back or stop, or we will shoot, or something?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, my

21 antwoord bly dieselfde. Ek dra glad nie kennis, vir

22 dieselfde asem kan ons sê dit was gesê deur een van daardie

23 Nyala 1 – 6, asook van die Papa Nyalas. Die persone wat

24 voor is by die mikrofoon, gewoonlik die drywer of die

25 persoon wat voor sit, het access tot die public address

Page 202871 system. Dis voor in die voertuig. So ek het gesê ons sal

2 kan gaan kyk. Ek wil nou onder korreksie sê dat ek het dit

3 raak gelees dat daar wel op ‘n stadium vir die persone gesê

4 is om weg te beweeg.

5 MR MPOFU: Ja. You know, Brigadier, the

6 reason I’m asking this, is that actually it’s tied to the

7 issues that you and I just discussed now, which is that

8 from the point of view of the protestors, and from what

9 they had observed happening during the whole day, that road

10 to Nkaneng was accessible to them, or rather the police did

11 not quarrel with them using that road. Now, if that had

12 changed for some reason, maybe for good reasons, at the

13 very least you must agree that you had to say to those

14 people, “You may no longer use this road. The fact that

15 you’ve been using it for the past five days, that’s par for

16 the cause, but as of this moment, that road is no longer

17 accessible to you,” which, as we know was accessible to

18 them a few seconds or minutes before. Do you understand

19 where I’m going with this?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek hoor wat u sê.

21 MR MPOFU: And what I’m going to argue is

22 that the police owed those protestors a duty to say, “This

23 road that you have been using all day, which your

24 colleagues have just walked on a few minutes before, which

25 you have used to come to the koppie, which we have just

Page 202881 blocked with Nyala 4, is no longer – you’re no longer

2 allowed.” Because under normal circumstances, they would

3 assume that that road, they’re allowed to use it to go to

4 Nkaneng, and I’d like your comment as to whether the police

5 had such a duty or not, and if so, whether it may not have

6 been discharged by using the loudhailer?


8 volgens ons voorskrifte, is daar wel – dit baie duidelik

9 dat ons sit eers ons verdedigingslyn in plek en na dit moet

10 daar dan ‘n waarskuwing wees. Ek dink die hele ding wat

11 ons gesê het, as ons kan sê onkant betrap, dis te

12 onderbreek die plan was wel dat hierdie persone gestorm het

13 nog voordat ons by daardie fase kan kom waar ons

14 voorskrifte vir ons gaan sê om ‘n waarskuwing te gee. U sê

15 wel vir my dat dit is vir die media gesê. Ek sê vir u dat

16 op daardie stadium kon dan van die voertuie dit ook vir die

17 persone gesê het van waar ek was en ek ombeweeg het. Dit

18 kon gedoen gewees het deur van die persone wat dalk nie op

19 die lig gehoor kan word nie. Ek het verwys na miskien ‘n

20 verklaring wat ons kan later na kyk en sê of daardie

21 persone dan wel met die protestors gekommunikeer het, maar

22 die waarskuwing sou gekom het as ons uitbeweeg het en dan

23 na die protestors toe die waarskuwing vir die uiteendrywing

24 en dan die doel. Dit is in kort my antwoord, saam met wat

25 ek voorheen getuig het oor wat ons miskien verwag het as



Page 202891 Mnr Mathunjwa na my toe gekom het en dan sou dit miskien ‘n

2 heel ander prentjie kon gewees het.

3 MR MPOFU: Fine, thank you. No, I accept

4 that it could have been done, but do you think it should

5 have been done too? It might have saved lives if it was

6 done.


8 nou in hindsight, dit is altyd maklik om na die tyd te kyk

9 en sê, ja, dit is moontlik gewees op miskien Nyala 4,

10 miskien daar waar hulle was, die gesprek. Ons weet hierdie

11 hele ding het in minute – in sekondes plaasgevind, en die

12 bevele is gegee om te gaan disperse, uiteen te dryf en te

13 blok. So, ja, in hindsight is dit altyd moontlik om te sê

14 daardie opsies, 1, 2, 3 en 4.

15 MR MPOFU: Yes, thank you. Then the next

16 point also to do with this photo. No, sorry, let’s take

17 one step back. Do I understand your evidence correctly

18 that someone at the JOC before 12 midday had informed you

19 about the change of plan, that Nyala 4 is now going to be –

20 going towards against the kraal.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Nyala 6 was going –

22 MR MPOFU: Nyala 6, yes, or yes, or yes,

23 the last Nyala, let’s say. That the last Nyala would now

24 be going against the kraal?


Page 202901 ook dit ook gerapporteer, ek dink dis iewers in my

2 verklaring – sal nie nou my vinger daarop wys nie, waar ek

3 met die JOC dan ook die sitrap deurgegee het van die

4 dreigement wat ons meegedeel is van Nyala 6 en daarna het

5 die JOC bevestig dat hulle het die foto gesien van Kolonel

6 Vermaak. Hulle het dan ook gesien die posisie en die

7 verduideliking oor die Nyala 6 se posisie wat moet in

8 beweeg, soos ek dit hier verwys het na clockwise. As ons

9 op die foto kyk, hy was heeltemal geïsoleer, ek kan amper

10 sê net regs van die letters 191 het hy gestaan. So dit is

11 hoekom hy in beweeg is dat daardie meer ‘n beheerde area

12 gewees het om toe te maak.

13 MR MPOFU: Yes. The gist of my question

14 – you’ve explained that last week. The gist of the

15 question was, whether that happened before 12 midday?

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink dit was rondom 11 iets –

17 ek kan die tyd vir vasstel in my verklaring.

18 MR MPOFU: 11ish, it’s fine.

19 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Maar daar’s ‘n VB

20 gemaak oor die voorval.

21 MR MPOFU: Ja. Now, if that happened at

22 around – firstly, when you were told this, it was told to

23 you personally, correct?

24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek. Ek

25 dink dit was, ek het getuig Kolonel Scott, onder korreksie.

Page 202911 MR MPOFU: Ja, you’re not sure. That’s

2 fine. And that information you did not brief anyone about

3 it? It was told to you by Scott or somebody from the JOC

4 and you did not see it necessary to call all the troops and

5 the commanders and so on about such a small change,

6 correct?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, nie korrek nie,

8 Mnr die Voorsitter. My getuienis was dat ek Kolonel

9 Makhubela, die voorsitter – die bevelvoerder van daardie

10 groep geroep het, asook die commander van daardie voertuig.

11 Kolonel Makhubela is meegedeel en hy het die voorligting

12 aan daardie Nyala 6 gegee, hoe dit nou sal plaasvind en van

13 waar af hy dan sal beweeg. Kolonel Makhubela, ek kan nie

14 vir sê of hy dan terug gegaan het en met elke Nyala dit

15 bespreek het nie, maar dit is wel deur my aan die groep

16 bevelvoerders gegee, wat die boodskap dan sou oordra.

17 MR MPOFU: Okay, no that’s fine. No

18 doubt Colonel Makhubela will tell us, but as far as you are

19 concerned, apart from telling Colonel Makhubela, you did

20 not broadcast that information to the other group

21 commanders, correct?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ons het die JOC

23 ingelig en ek dink dit is op die radio gewees, so ek dink

24 die persone wat daar was kon dit seer sekerlik dan ook

25 gehoor het van die dreigement op daardie voertuig.

Page 202921 MR MPOFU: No, please, Brigadier, just

2 answer the question. You, Brigadier Calitz, did not take

3 any steps - the mere fact that someone might have

4 overheard something on the radio is neither here nor there,

5 you did not take any steps to broadcast that information of

6 that change to anyone else apart from Colonel Makhubela,

7 correct?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, net die groep

9 bevelvoerder wat geraak was met die verandering. Dit is

10 korrek.

11 MR MPOFU: Yes. Now, so it’s said to a

12 few that until the operation actually started, the other

13 members of the police and the other units that were not in

14 Colonel Makhubela’s unit still thought that the advance, if

15 we can call it that, the police advance is going to be from

16 that area with Nyalas to the koppie, in other words

17 westward – that the advance would be westward, correct?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek is nie seker oor

19 wat u reg verstaan, die advance, wat bedoel jy by –

20 MR MPOFU: Okay, let’s call it movement.

21 I’m saying, if I understand you correctly, until the JOC at

22 about 11:00, whatever, told you about this new change of

23 plan which you shared with Colonel Makhubela, the rest of

24 the people would have understood that the movement of the

25 police will be from where the police vehicles are



Page 202931 concentrated towards the koppie, as it were, behind the

2 concave arrangement that we spoke about, correct?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek stem nie saam

4 met u nie, mnr die Voorsitter.

5 MR MPOFU: Okay, maybe just to be fair to

6 you, I’ll have to ask the question again and maybe simplify

7 it. Am I correct that until that point, the other members

8 of the police would have believed that the movement – their

9 movement towards the dispersal activities would be

10 westward. In other words, from where the vehicles are

11 towards the koppies, yes?

12 MR SEMENYA SC: I don’t understand –

13 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Mr Mpofu, I don’t

14 follow the question.

15 MR MPOFU: Okay, let’s use the pointer.

16 CHAIRPERSON: I think Advocate Hemraj

17 wants to tell you why she doesn’t understand the question.

18 Perhaps you should listen to her first.

19 MR MPOFU: And Mr Semenya also doesn’t

20 understand, ja.

21 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Are you suggesting

22 that they were going to move in the direction of the barbed

23 wire?

24 MR MPOFU: No.

25 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Okay, then perhaps

Page 202941 you need to explain the question to us.

2 CHAIRPERSON: - police knew there was

3 going to be barbed wire, I mean it’s obvious – the barbed

4 wire trailers were there. So they knew the plan was to

5 have a barbed wire barrier and we can see the position of

6 the prepositioned Nyala. So they knew there’d be a barbed

7 wire barrier there. So there’s no question of them

8 advancing beyond that towards the koppie because the barbed

9 wire barrier presumably would stop them. So that’s why I

10 don’t understand the question. I don’t know what Mr

11 Semenya’s reason for not understanding the question, but

12 I’ve given you one good reason anyway. So perhaps you

13 could reformulate the question –

14 MR MPOFU: No, okay, Chairperson. You

15 heard that exchange, Brigadier?

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, maar dit is nog

17 steeds nie duidelik nie, so miskien as jy dit vir ons so

18 kan verduidelik sal ek verstaan.

19 CHAIRPERSON: The question is a non-

20 starter. There’s no way that the police could have

21 advanced beyond, as I understand it, beyond the barbed wire

22 barrier towards the koppie, because the barrier would stop

23 them. So that’s the first point. The second point is,

24 they would in any event have seen Nyala 6 being moved and

25 once it was moved, they’d have understood where it now is,

Page 202951 but I think what you’re really busy with is not so much

2 just an advance in a westerly direction towards the koppie,

3 what you’re really concerned about is the bottom left-hand

4 corner of this slide that we see here at the moment, and

5 what they would have assumed about that.

6 [10:49] And perhaps if you follow that line then I’ll be

7 able to understand you and perhaps Mr Semenya will too.

8 MR MPOFU: Ja, well everyone should

9 understand because that’s why I use the word “towards,” not

10 “to.” But that’s another matter. I’m saying when the –

11 rather, the rest of the police would have understood that

12 their movement will be westwards – let’s not use the koppie

13 because maybe that’s what is causing the confusion – that

14 their movement would be westwards, and westwards, I was

15 saying towards, it could be towards anything in the west,

16 ja, that their movement would be towards, or maybe let’s

17 make it easier so that we eliminate this thing, would be

18 towards the barbed wire direction. Let’s not use the

19 koppie because now the – do you understand now, or do you

20 agree?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek hoor wat u sê, maar

22 ek stem nog steeds nie saam met u nie.

23 MR MPOFU: Okay, so then they would have

24 understood their movement to be towards the north?


Page 202961 weet nie of ek dit nou, dit goed of sleg is nie. Ek weet

2 nie of ek net kan help nie, maar miskien moet ek ook nie,

3 laat ons miskien net eers duidelikheid kry –

4 MR MPOFU: No, Brigadier –

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil –

6 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, you say what you

7 want to say and then I want to put something to you. You

8 say what you want to say, and then I’ll put something to

9 you.


11 die vraag is ten tye van die 12 uur, dat die ander polisie

12 persone nog steeds bewus was dat hulle sou in 'n westelike

13 rigting opgevolg het, dit is wat ek verstaan wat mnr Mpofu

14 sê. Ons stem nie saam met dit nie want teen 12 uur toe die

15 Nyala 6 geskuif is was dit nog steeds net 'n fase 3

16 “prepositioning” teen 12 uur. So daar was nog geen

17 opdrag –

18 CHAIRPERSON: So your point is that the

19 briefing which only took place at 2:30 in respect of the

20 tactical option phase 3 –

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is miskien, as ek

22 kan help, ja –

23 CHAIRPERSON: So therefore the policemen

24 who were waiting at these various positions east of this

25 330 metre white line that we see on the slide, wouldn’t



Page 202971 have known what was going to happen in relation to the

2 tactical option because they hadn’t been briefed yet. So

3 nothing would have passed through their minds in relation

4 to the consequences of the moving of Nyala 6. Is that your

5 point?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is my hele punt

7 waarmee ek graag wil help, as ons kan aangaan, mnr die

8 Voorsitter.

9 MR MPOFU: Alright, then this will be

10 clearer if we go to the photo. These people, this line,

11 this line here –

12 CHAIRPERSON: Which line where? You’re

13 showing it, but –

14 MR MPOFU: Well, I said –

15 CHAIRPERSON: But those of us, those

16 people –

17 MR MPOFU: I’m still talking –

18 CHAIRPERSON: - who will be reading the

19 transcript in subsequent years won’t know what “this line

20 here” means. So would you be kind enough to explain which

21 “this line here” is?

22 MR MPOFU: I’m still talking,

23 Chairperson. The reason why I have not described it is

24 because I still, the pointer is still finding it here.

25 Once that happens – ja, this line here of, this line of

Page 202981 policemen, can you see the line here of policemen, which is

2 behind, or starting just east of the point of the 110

3 metres line?

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sien die lyn, mnr

5 die Voorsitter.

6 MR MPOFU: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON: Is that a police line or a

8 media line? I understood you to say that’s –

9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dit lyk –

10 CHAIRPERSON: - where the media vehicles

11 were parked. Were there police vehicles parked there as

12 well?

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek dink dit is -

14 die blou uniforms sal, ek sal my geld daarop sit dat dit

15 dalk 'n polisielyn is.

16 MR MPOFU: Yes, the media were not

17 wearing the same clothes.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek dink nie hulle

19 gaan in daardie formasie wees nie, nee.

20 CHAIRPERSON: I’m sorry, can you see

21 people in blue uniforms on this thing?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dis net 'n donker

23 lyn van persone tussen voertuie –

24 CHAIRPERSON: Oh, that’s supposed to be

25 blue? Okay –

Page 202991 MR MPOFU: The man in –

2 CHAIRPERSON: - if one knows it’s blue,

3 then one knows what the colour is.

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Kom ons sê maar net

5 'n, donker kolletjies wat ek “depict” op hierdie afstand as

6 persone.

7 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay. That police line,

8 I’m saying to you that police line is positioned for a

9 movement westward, correct? In other words they are facing

10 – unless if they were standing behind each other, which is

11 unlikely. If they are standing on a line which is ready to

12 move, they’re facing westwards, correct?


14 kan glad nie sê wat die doel was van daardie lyn. Dit kan

15 'n bevelvoerder gewees het wat sy persone vinnig besig was

16 om te “brief.” Ek kan nie vir u sê wie die lyn is op

17 daardie stadium op hierdie afstand nie. So nee, dis

18 onmoontlik om te sê.

19 MR MPOFU: Brigadier Calitz, just answer

20 the question. I’m not asking you about the “doel.” I’m

21 saying would you agree that that line at that point is

22 facing westward?

23 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek kan dit nie

24 sien nie.

25 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Is that a TRT line?

Page 203001 Are you unable to say?

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Kommissaris, dis

3 hoekom ek sê dit is die tyd wat ons dit het is 15:42, so

4 dit is, op hierdie foto moes dit na die voorligting gewees

5 het. So dit kan 'n bevelvoerder wees wat dan terwyl hy

6 Nyalas uitrol, gou sy mense – dit sal my afleiding wees –

7 vinnig voorligting gegee het miskien nog in daardie

8 agterste linie. Dit sou my logiese afleiding gewees het,

9 maar of hulle nou, watter kant toe hulle kyk en ek sien

10 hulle nie beweeg westelik nie, so dis hoekom ek sê ek stem

11 nie saam nie.

12 MR MPOFU: But Brigadier, really, I think

13 you are just being difficult for no reason.

14 CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, I don’t think

15 that’s fair. Look, surely there are two possible things.

16 The one is that the line – well, there are three, but I

17 think we can –

18 MR MPOFU: There are four.

19 CHAIRPERSON: We can only –

20 MR MPOFU: There are only four

21 directions; east, west, south, north.

22 CHAIRPERSON: No, you’re quite right.

23 Theoretically there’s a line of people. They’re either

24 standing next to each other, you know, next to each other,

25 in which case they’re either facing westward towards the



Page 203011 koppie, or they’re facing eastwards towards the media

2 vehicles. Alternatively they are in single file, as it

3 were, one behind the other, in which case they’re either

4 facing northwards or they’re facing southwards. Those are

5 the four possibilities, and there are only four

6 possibilities, and what Mr Mpofu suggests to you is the

7 most likely one is that they were facing westward, they

8 were in other words standing next to each other and they

9 were facing westwards in the direction of the koppie, most

10 likely that they were looking at the koppie. That’s where

11 the action was. They didn’t turn their backs on the action

12 and look the other way. That’s his question. Now what do

13 you say about that? Is that right, Mr Mpofu?

14 MR MPOFU: That’s hundred percent

15 correct, Chairperson.


17 dit is dat die vraag is die moontlikheid dat hulle wel kan

18 wes beweeg, hy het dit gestel as 'n feit – ag, wes kyk, die

19 moontlikheid is daar dat hulle in 'n westelike rigting, en

20 dan my “comment” daarop is dat dit is besig, daardie lede

21 is besig met 'n vinnige voorligting, hulle “kit” reg te

22 kry, ensovoorts, as ek my afleiding kan maak, want dit is

23 nog voor die opdrag gegee is deur my enigsins op hierdie

24 stadium. Ons sien Nyala 1 net begin beweeg, so op hierdie

25 stadium het die voorste groep nog stilgesit.

Page 203021 MR MPOFU: Alright, now –

2 CHAIRPERSON: Alright, you’ve made the

3 point [microphone off, inaudible].

4 MR MPOFU: Well, you made it for me,

5 thank you, Chairperson.

6 CHAIRPERSON: [Microphone off,

7 inaudible].

8 MR MPOFU: Thank you.

9 CHAIRPERSON: I’m pleased I can be of

10 some assistance. Now are you moving on to another point,

11 or are you still busy with this point?

12 MR MPOFU: No, I’m still busy with this

13 point.

14 CHAIRPERSON: I see. So I didn’t make it

15 completely for you. Alright, well finish the point

16 quickly, then we’ll take tea.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes. Yes, thank you,

18 Chairperson. Now where I’m going with this, Brigadier – or

19 are you saying that there’s a possibility that there was a

20 briefing taking place of those members?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Wat my getuienis was

22 dat ten tye van Nyala 1 het die groep voor stilgesit. Ek

23 het slegs die opdrag gegee vir die Pappa Nyalas om te gaan

24 “disperse” en blok toe ek die beweging sien wat nader kom.

25 So dis baie moontlik dat die “commander” wel sy groepe

Page 203031 bymekaar gekry het en wat vir hulle tydens die voorligting

2 gesê is om te weet dat hulle gaan POP bystaan sou daar dan

3 daardie uiteendrywing – so op hierdie stadium sou dit 'n

4 vreedsame uitrol van die draad gewees het. Daardie lede

5 sou vreedsaam opgevolg het. Ons sou vreedsaam uitbeweeg

6 het. Daar sou 'n vreedsame waarskuwing gewees het, en die

7 wat gehoor gegee het sou vreedsaam huis toe kon gegaan het,

8 met geen tragiese gevolge nie.

9 MR MPOFU: And would it be fair to assume

10 that – let’s assume now it was not a briefing and there

11 were, they had formed up a line ready for action. Would it

12 be fair that given the fact that they were facing westward,

13 that their understanding was that the movement would be as

14 I described earlier, westward?


16 ons moet aanneem dis TRT, wat ek net, as ons sê ons kan dit

17 aanneem, dan sou hulle verstandhouding gewees het dat sodra

18 die “call” kom moet hulle Openbare Orde Polisiëring volg.

19 Daar sou 'n “dispersion order” wees en hulle sou dan

20 geassisteer het met die arrestasies wat daarna sou volg,

21 asook dat hulle sou geweet het op daardie stadium dat hulle

22 koppie 2 sou gevee het. So dit was duidelik in die

23 voorligting.

24 CHAIRPERSON: If they were going to

25 follow the POP police members, the POP police members would

Page 203041 have had to enter into the area on the western side of the 2 barbed wire barrier to do the dispersal. Isn’t that right?3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As ek u reg verstaan, 4 die polisie sal inkom –5 CHAIRPERSON: Look, you had the wire 6 barrier. Police couldn’t go through the wire barrier.7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Daar is net een 8 opening.9 CHAIRPERSON: You were going to move to

10 the spot that you –11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: I think it’s at the 12 eastern side of the kraal.13 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, eastern side of the 14 kraal.15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis korrek.16 CHAIRPERSON: You would then have given 17 two warnings and eventually –18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Korrek.19 CHAIRPERSON: - the POP people would have 20 advanced into the, what one can call the unsafe area, the 21 area on the west of the barbed wire, to proceed with their 22 dispersion and disarmament exercise. That’s right, isn’t 23 it?24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ons sou uitbeweeg het, 25 wat ek hier verwys het na die neutrale gebied toe. So met



Page 203051 ander woorde om die kraal, heeltemal uitbeweeg het, 'n lyn

2 gevorm het –

3 CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - wat nou die

5 neutrale, waar ons hierdie klomp mense sien loop, “facing”

6 die koppie, en dan van daar af die waarskuwings gegee het.

7 CHAIRPERSON: And the TRT were told they

8 must be behind the POP people so that in the case of –

9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Arrestasies.

10 CHAIRPERSON: - need, they must either

11 defend or protect the POP people, or if there’s no need for

12 that they must proceed to sweep the koppie and assist with

13 arrests. Is that correct?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nadat ons dan die

15 uiteendrywing aksie uitgevoer het, as sou daar persone

16 oorgebly het, wat ons verwag het die persone sal “either”

17 hulle wapens sou neersit en wegbeweeg. Sou daar 'n groep

18 wees wat “resistance,” sou daar 'n konfrontasie

19 uiteendrywing gewees het en soos die Openbare Orde dan

20 deurbeweeg sou dan hulle doel wees om koppie 2 te “sweep”

21 met al die bewysstukke wat dan daar bymekaar gemaak word.

22 CHAIRPERSON: The point is that that’s

23 what the TRT people, assuming they’re TRT people, if that’s

24 what they were told by their commander who’d received a

25 briefing from Colonel Scott or whoever, at about half past

Page 203061 2, they would have realised that what they’re going to have

2 to do is they’re going to have to follow the POP people and

3 they’re going to move to a north-western position near that

4 kraal and do the things we’ve discussed a moment ago.

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is –

6 CHAIRPERSON: Is that correct?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek, mnr die

8 Voorsitter.

9 CHAIRPERSON: So there wouldn’t have been

10 any question of them moving westward towards the wire

11 barrier.

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Uh-uh.

13 CHAIRPERSON: They would have known, in

14 the light of what we’ve discussed, that they’d be going to

15 the north-western corner of this photograph in the vicinity

16 of the kraal. Is that correct?

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit was die enigste

18 uitgang gewees wat die polisie sou gevolg het met die TRT,

19 mnr die Voorsitter.

20 MR MPOFU: Thank you. Then so this is

21 the last one before tea. If that is indeed so, then as the

22 operational commander can you give an explanation as to why

23 they had formed a line that was facing westward at that

24 crucial stage?

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter –

Page 203071 CHAIRPERSON: It wasn’t a crucial stage

2 at that stage.

3 MR MPOFU: 15:40 was, Chairperson.

4 CHAIRPERSON: No, the crucial stage –

5 well, it wasn’t a crucial stage of the dispersion operation

6 because according to the evidence we had that was only

7 going to take place about half an hour later. Once the

8 wire was in place the, according to the plan there were

9 going to be two warnings, with substantial time interval

10 between them, given by the witness before the actual

11 dispersion operations had begun. So I don’t think it was a

12 crucial time –

13 MR MPOFU: Fine.

14 CHAIRPERSON: But in any event, surely

15 it’s a question that’s not going to help us. If the

16 commanding officer said to them look here you chaps, line

17 up in front here and I will tell you in detail what we’re

18 going to do, he would have done it so that he could keep an

19 eye on them as he spoke to them and see who was falling

20 asleep and who was following. I mean it’s simply that.

21 It’s not going to help us surely to take this discussion

22 any further.


24 CHAIRPERSON: Unless I’m being

25 characteristically obtuse and I can’t follow your point, in

Page 203081 which case I’d be grateful if you’d explain it.

2 MR MPOFU: Well, I wouldn’t agree with

3 that, Chairperson, about you being obtuse, but I also

4 wouldn’t dare to imagine that you are saying that the fact

5 that the police seemingly at least from the photograph were

6 facing a direction other than the one that we are told that

7 they were supposed to move to, that that is – I don’t know

8 the word you used – unhelpful, because I think that it’s

9 quite an important – remember, we are piecing things

10 together here, Chairperson. We are not, we don’t – if we

11 had the magic bullet of knowing what is in everybody’s mind

12 and how the people were shot, we wouldn’t be here.

13 CHAIRPERSON: No, you’re quite right.

14 MR MPOFU: We have to use pieces of

15 information to get to it. Thank you.

16 CHAIRPERSON: I understand that. Have

17 you not got the piece of information you require on record

18 at the moment –

19 MR MPOFU: Yes, I have.

20 CHAIRPERSON: - which will enable you to

21 argue the point you want to argue at the end of the matter?

22 MR MPOFU: Yes, no, that’s a different

23 matter. If I’ve made the point, that’s fine, but it’s not

24 unhelpful, it’s not irrelevant.

25 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, no I’m sorry.



Page 203091 MR MPOFU: Thank you.

2 CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps I will be informed

3 in due course that it’s a very helpful point.

4 MR MPOFU: Thanks, ja.

5 CHAIRPERSON: It may well assist us to

6 put the whole jigsaw together.

7 MR MPOFU: No, that’s correct.

8 CHAIRPERSON: Can we take tea now, Mr

9 Mpofu?

10 MR MPOFU: We can, thank you,

11 Chairperson.

12 CHAIRPERSON: We’ll take the tea

13 adjournment.

14 [COMMISSION ADJOURNS COMMISSION RESUMES]

15 [11:34] CHAIRPERSON: The commission resumes.

16 Brigadier, you’re still under oath.

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dankie, mnr die

18 Voorsitter.

19 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu?

20 MR MPOFU: Thank you very much,

21 Chairperson. Brigadier, the, you and I have had this

22 discussion about what you ought to have foreseen and what

23 you, and really it was sparked by the question that I asked

24 you on Friday namely that there have been this refrain from

25 police evidence or police witnesses, SAPS witnesses about

Page 203101 the plan was disrupted, the plan was disrupted and I had

2 asked you what the disruption was and you said that it was

3 the fact that these people came over to the, to attack as

4 you put it and it's from that line that I was saying that

5 can't be a disruption because that was something you should

6 have foreseen. You remember that line of questioning on

7 Friday?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek onthou en ek onthou

9 wat ek daaroor getuig het, ja.

10 MR MPOFU: Ja. Now, so we have, I think

11 we have exhausted that, is there any other disruption apart

12 from this one that we have discussed that qualifies under

13 this heading of the plan was disrupted or was that, the

14 only or the main disruption?

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek sal sê die

16 onderbreking in die plan wat ons juis wou gedoen het is

17 waarna ons hier verwys, die aanval en dit is waar ons nie

18 die geleentheid gehad het om uit te beweeg, die persone

19 waarsku en en en. So dit was die onderbreking in die plan

20 en vandaar af het ons uit, met die uiteendryf aksie

21 voortgegaan soos wat die beplanning was.

22 CHAIRPERSON: So the short answer is the

23 only respects in which the plan was disrupted was in

24 respect that we’ve been discussing this morning?


Page 203111 ons praat van wat ons praat van die onderbreking in die

2 plan dit was die aanval –

3 CHAIRPERSON: I take the disruption of

4 the onderbreking when the National Commissioner gave

5 evidence she used a phrase disruption, she said the plan

6 was disrupted and what Mr Mpofu as I understand it has been

7 trying to ascertain from you is in what respect was the

8 plan disrupted and are you satisfied that what you’ve told

9 us so far is the description and the manner in which the

10 plan was disrupted?

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, daar het verdere

12 inligting later tot die kennis gekom, daar het nog gebeure

13 wat nie soos op die voorligting was of soos op die plan was

14 waar lede moes bly en ons praat van forward holding area 2

15 wat ons weet het inbeweeg na koppie 3 en daai was ook nie

16 deel van die plan nie. Maar ek weet nie of dit die

17 disruption is van die plan wat ons na verwys nie. So ek is

18 versigtig om dit te sê die enigste, daar was ander gevalle

19 waar daar ook miskien nie volgens die plan maar met redes

20 wat gegee was.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Disruption means, the word

22 disruption really relates to the manner in which the plan

23 could not be, the reason for the fact that the plan could

24 not be implemented as it was originally worked out and the

25 fact that people came from forward holding area 2 and so

Page 203121 on, and people who were supposed to give medical attention

2 at scene 1 went off to scene 2 and got involved in

3 activities there. Those, are those are not really reasons

4 why the plan as originally drafted wasn’t implemented, they

5 are consequences of certain other things that had been

6 looked at.

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek verstaan, dankie

8 vir daai verduideliking, dankie, mnr die Voorsitter.

9 MR MPOFU: Is it also true that you and

10 when I say you in this context I mean the police

11 anticipated that the, a section of the crowd would refuse

12 to disperse or let me put it this way, more specifically

13 would remain at or near the koppie or koppies, the first

14 two koppies, correct?

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Wat ons voorsien het

16 dat, nadat ons die waarskuwing gegee het sou daar dan

17 persone vrylik wegbeweeg het wat gehoor gegee het aan die

18 waarskuwing en, ek weet nie of ek die hele waarskuwing weer

19 moet herhaal nie, dit is nie nodig, en dan het ons voorsien

20 dat tydens die arrestasie daar wel ‘n paar groepe soos wat

21 in al ons gevalle mag gebeur nooit al die persone beweeg

22 weg nie en gee gehoor aan ‘n waarskuwing nie, daar sou dan

23 ‘n paar persone agter gebly het op die koppie. Wat ons dan

24 vorentoe sou gegaan het en met die uiteendrywing proses

25 volgens die force kontinuum dan daardie persone



Page 203131 uiteengedryf het en daar is waar ek getuig het dat ons het

2 wel in daardie geval konfrontasie voorsien, dit is korrek.

3 MR MPOFU: No, Brigadier, I’m asking you

4 a simple question. Was it part of your projection of what

5 was going to happen that the so-called militant group would

6 refuse to vacate the koppies, correct?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, ja

8 ek dink dit is wat ek nou net getuig het. Die wat gehoor

9 sou gegee het sou wegbeweeg het en dan sou daar die wat nie

10 gehoor gegee het nie sou dan ook agter gebly het, so ja.

11 CHAIRPERSON: That’s not the entire

12 answer to the question. What Mr Mpofu is concerned about,

13 you explained to us there would essentially be two

14 groupings of strikers. There were the militant ones who

15 were clear in the 400 and then there were the others. Now

16 I think you made it clear in the past that you expected the

17 others to go. Some of them went already and others you

18 expected to react to the warning. As far as the militant

19 group was concerned do you expect the whole militant group

20 to stay or did you expect even some of the militant group

21 to go after the warning had been given?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, na

23 ons ‘n waarskuwing gee sal almal wat dan die waarskuwing

24 verstaan en dit so inneem sou dan die toneel verlaat het en

25 dit sluit die militante groep in. Dis nie te sê dat ons

Page 203141 hulle uit gesluit het in die waarskuwing en geweet ons

2 praat net met die ander groep op die koppie nie self. So

3 van die militante groep kon dan ook, hoe kan ek sê wapens

4 neergelê het en vrylik wegbeweeg het.

5 CHAIRPERSON: So are you saying that you

6 expected, because that’s what Mr Mpofu is busy with I

7 think, what you expected to happen. Are you saying you

8 expected even some of the militant group to respond to the

9 warning and all that would remain, because you said you

10 expected some would remain and there would be a

11 confrontation, that you expect those who remained or who

12 were going to remain to be a part of the militant group,

13 not the whole militant group but a portion of them, is that

14 -

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dat hulle deel sal

16 vorm van daardie groep, korrek, mnr die Voorsitter.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes, and to look at it on the

18 flip side. What you did not expect certainly is that

19 everyone was going to vacate the koppie and proceed towards

20 Nkaneng, correct?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ons sal altyd sê dat

22 daar sal altyd ‘n element wees was agter sal bly en wat nie

23 gehoor sal gee aan die waarskuwings nie. Weens die

24 dreigemente van dood wat aan ons gemaak is was daar wel die

25 moontlikheid voorsien dat ons daar wel konfrontasie sou

Page 203151 gehad het tydens die uiteendrywing ja.

2 MR MPOFU: Brigadier, I don’t want to

3 criticise you unfairly. Please listen to this question. I

4 hear all these things, nobody could know exactly what’s

5 going to happen. What I’m saying to you is in your

6 postulation or projection of what was going to take place

7 the one thing you did not foresee or did not plan for was

8 the fact that everyone would choose to leave the koppies

9 and proceed towards Nkaneng, everybody, every single

10 person, that was not part of your projection?

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As jy praat van die

12 projection die plan en dit was ons op die beplanning

13 voorsien het, mnr die Voorsitter het ons voorsien dat daar

14 wel uiteendrywing sou plaasvind en dit beteken dat daar wel

15 mense sou gewees het wat agter op die koppie agter gebly

16 het. So ons het geweet uit die dreigemente uit daar sal

17 mense wees wat nie sal reageer nie.

18 MR MPOFU: Yes, and I’m going to argue

19 that actually that is the, it's your own lack of foresight

20 really that was the disruption in the sense that the people

21 contrary to what you had projected, all decided to leave

22 the koppies, the places where they were meeting and to

23 proceed mainly towards Nkaneng but the emphasis on this is

24 that the koppie was vacated and that was not part of your

25 plan that these people will just go, choose to go to

Page 203161 Nkaneng.

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, u

3 sien ons kombineer weer die twee wat nie die geval is nie.

4 Die tweede een waarna Mnr Mpofu sou verwys het is hoe die

5 mense sou gereageer het nadat ons die waarskuwing gegee

6 het. Wat hy nou impliseer is dat die waarskuwing reeds

7 gegee is, die mense het geweet en nou is almal vrylik, dit

8 het nie so gebeur nie. Toe ons die eerste draad uitgegooi

9 het was nog voor ons die geleentheid gegee het om die

10 waarskuwing te gee aan die persone het daardie groep

11 besluit om die polisielyn aan te val. Daar was wel -

12 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry that’s where you and

13 he differ. His case is that none of his clients intended

14 to attack the police line. All of them wanted to go

15 peacefully to Nkaneng. So he says that before you had even

16 got to a stage of giving warnings once the wire was being

17 uncoiled all of the people on the koppie, the so-called

18 militant group and the others all decided, it's not

19 sensible to stay around here anymore we’re all going home

20 to Nkaneng and possibly other places as well and they all

21 were going peacefully to Nkaneng and then the police fired

22 at them and so forth. That's his case because it's denied

23 very strongly by the injured and arrested people that they

24 had any intention of attacking the police, they were just

25 proceeding, they say peacefully to Nkaneng and remember



Page 203171 you, I think Mr Mpofu reminded you on Friday what Mr

2 Magidiwana said that Mr Noki said we had done nothing

3 wrong, there’s no reason why we can't just walk straight

4 through the police line to Nkaneng.

5 MR MPOFU: - didn’t say anything about

6 walking through the police line. He simply said it was

7 done, neither did Magidiwana quote him as such.

8 CHAIRPERSON: Alright. Well give the

9 correct, I thought I had summarised the gist of it, but

10 correct me because I’m accustomed to being corrected. Give

11 us the exact passage.

12 MR MPOFU: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON: So the witness won't be

14 misled.

15 MR MPOFU: Yes. What I said to you on

16 Friday is that Mr Magidiwana’s evidence was that Mr Noki

17 came to them and said, as the Chairperson correctly says,

18 we’ve done nothing wrong let us not run which is very

19 crucial for other reasons, let us walk to Nkaneng, he

20 didn’t say lets walk through the police line.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Oh okay, I accept the

22 correction for which I’m grateful. But he then led his men

23 towards the police line so they were going to walk not run

24 but they could walk through the police line on their way to

25 Nkaneng.

Page 203181 MR MPOFU: No, the police line only, so-

2 called police line arrived once Nyala 4 closed, walk

3 towards the road to Nkaneng which was as the witness had

4 said was open to them until such time that Nyala 4 closed

5 it.

6 CHAIRPERSON: You and I are both wiser

7 then we were before. We now know what Mr Mpofu’s clients

8 case is and do you want him to comment upon that or is

9 there a specific question you want to ask him?

10 MR MPOFU: Yes, no, this is what I was

11 saying. The Chairperson is quite correct, I’m now

12 premising this question on our version, you understand,

13 that’s what this discussion was all about. Now all I was

14 saying to you is this. In your projections, expectations

15 and so on of what was going to happen none of them, none of

16 them included, okay lets even make it worse, let’s assume,

17 forget this thing whether they’re walking peacefully or

18 with murderous intent include both, but none of your

19 projections included the possibility of all the people

20 vacating the place towards Nkaneng, to murder or to go home

21 or to do whatever, that you did not anticipate? That all

22 of them would vacate, correct?


24 dit is waaroor ek getuig het. As ons die waarskuwing gegee

25 het, het ek getuig dat die ondervinding wat ek het en ek

Page 203191 kan net daaruit praat, is dat daar is altyd ‘n groepering

2 of ‘n militante groepie wat ons nou maar, as ek kan die

3 woord gebruik ‘n stand wil maak. Dit gebeur baie weinig in

4 die operasionele ondervinding en my experience daar is

5 persone gewaarsku het en die hele groep wat die pad versper

6 het, het besluit okay ons luister na die polisie ons beweeg

7 vreedsaam weg.

8 CHAIRPERSON: It sounds as if you’re

9 answering, you’re actually agreeing with what Mr Mpofu says

10 on the assumption which you asked you to make for purposes

11 of answering this question. On the assumption that his

12 clients were all proceeding to Nkaneng and not intending

13 simply to attack the police and stay there, but on the

14 assumption that he says is his case that they all were

15 proceeding to Nkaneng, that is something which was not

16 foreseen which you did not expect? You expected some of

17 them would stay, you expected some of them would put up a

18 fight but you did not expect that all of them would proceed

19 to Nkaneng, that’s correct isn’t it?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is uit

21 ondervinding uit, mnr die Voorsitter, as ek net een ding

22 kan byvoeg dat op die einde wat mnr Mpofu self gesê het nou

23 is dat die woorde van mnr Mathunjwa soos ek nou verstaan

24 het is beweeg –

25 CHAIRPERSON: No, no Mr Noki.

Page 203201 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ag.

2 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mathunjwa’s address –

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mr Noki, ja.

4 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Noki is alleged to have

5 said -

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek het dit.

7 CHAIRPERSON: We’ve done nothing wrong.

8 We can walk, we don’t have to run.

9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek.

10 CHAIRPERSON: And then they walked off in

11 the direction of this path but Nyala 4 came in front of

12 them and stopped them and then they went round the kraal

13 and they were carrying on, this time walking towards the

14 police line and then something happened -

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is –

16 CHAIRPERSON: That we heard a lot about.

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis miskien wat ek net

18 op rekord wil plaas is dat gesê is dat hulle kan vreedsaam

19 beweeg, hardloop soos wat u gesê het in die rigting van

20 Nkaneng en nie na die polisie lyn toe nie. So die polisie

21 lyn was juis daar waar die voetpad was so ek is bly dat ek

22 dit net op rekord plaas dat hulle moes gegaan het na

23 Nkaneng toe en dit is waar ek wil verwys na die vorige

24 foto, fotos wat ek ingehandig het, die hele groep, meer as

25 180 grade na Nkaneng toe was oop gewees waar hulle kon



Page 203211 loop. Maar hulle het presies besluit om na die polisie lyn

2 toe te loop.

3 CHAIRPERSON: That doesn't answer the

4 question. You’re repeating what you said before, you don’t

5 have, we’ve heard it already.

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil net daar ‘n

7 bietjie -

8 CHAIRPERSON: No, no I understand but you

9 don’t have to, you repeat a point it doesn't make it any

10 stronger, it's still remains as strong as it was from the

11 beginning. We know what your case is. Your case is if

12 they wanted to go to Nkaneng they could have, they followed

13 another route, the fact that they went this way is one of

14 the reasons why you say they intended to attack the police

15 but Mr Mpofu is not discussing that with you at the moment.

16 But he says, he’s just putting it to you that his case is

17 that his clients were all proceeding to Nkaneng and that’s

18 something that you didn’t foresee and the answer you

19 already given yes you didn’t foresee that, you thought some

20 people would stay behind and fight, that’s the difference

21 isn’t it, ja.

22 MR MPOFU: Yes, in other words the, if

23 you go to slide L194 where at that stage at 194 it's quite

24 clear that by then the koppies have been vacated. Such

25 people as we can see, well some have gone home obviously,

Page 203221 but those that we can see are elsewhere but the koppies,

2 there’s no strikers at the koppies, that is the situation

3 that I’m saying you did not foresee. You foresaw the

4 opposite. That some will remain and some will go and so

5 on, as you’ve explained at length. But this situation that

6 we see in L194 where the area concerned has been vacated is

7 not what you contemplated.

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter -

9 MR MPOFU: Correct?

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil net hierdie

11 antwoord, om net seker te maak dat ons net op die regte,

12 weereens dis twee aparte voorvalle. Wat ons voorsien het –

13 CHAIRPERSON: No, no I know that. Mr

14 Mpofu doesn't quarrel with that. What you thought as I

15 understand you that effectively nothing much would happen

16 until you came to give the warnings and then after the

17 warnings you expected certain things to happen, some people

18 would go home, some people would stay, there would be a

19 confrontation and the dispersal and disarmament would

20 proceed.

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis korrek.

22 CHAIRPERSON: That’s what you thought.

23 He says now something else. He says he accepts that, he

24 never got there. The very time when the wire was being

25 uncoiled everybody decided to go. Some people went one

Page 203231 direction, other people went in another.

2 [11:54] His clients are presumably to be seen at the

3 bottom end of the orange arrow on slide 194, and then of

4 course after Nyala 4 had accelerated and got to the kraal,

5 they then went around the kraal and the events at scene 1

6 took place. But that was not what you people foresaw would

7 happen. You assumed that there would be nothing noteworthy

8 to report really while the wire was being uncoiled. You

9 thought the operation as such would begin, the action would

10 start, if I can put it that way, after that when you had

11 given the warnings and so forth. That’s correct? That’s

12 the point he’s making, as I understand it, and you agree

13 with it?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, ek “agree” met

15 daardie stelling, as ek dit dan reg het. Dankie daarvoor,

16 mnr die Voorsitter. En dan die tweede deel is van wat u

17 gesê het hier kan ons sien dat daardie persone dan wel in

18 die, na Nkaneng toe beweeg. Ek wil net sê wat ek sien hier

19 is die persone wat wel na Nkaneng toe beweeg is die persone

20 wat na hierdie sinkhuisies aan die onderkant van die foto,

21 dit is die persone wat Nkaneng toe beweeg. Die ander het

22 reguit na die polisielyn toe beweeg. So dis die verskil.

23 MR MPOFU: Okay, I’ll ignore that for

24 now. We’ll come back to it, I can assure you. Now the

25 point, in fact to reinforce what I’m saying, the arrests,

Page 203241 such arrests as you foresaw and the places that were going

2 to be swept – I think was the word you used – by the

3 tactical line, also involved this group of people who would

4 have, (a), either refused to leave their position at or

5 near the koppie, or moved to what you called a higher

6 position. Those were the candidates for arrest, correct?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die persone wat hulle

8 teengesit het teen die “dispersion” en geweier het om hulle

9 wapens neer te lê en gehoor te gee, daardie persone was dan

10 die groep wat sou gearresteer gewees het.

11 MR MPOFU: That may well be so, but did

12 you also foresee the main arrests coming from people, (a),

13 who refused to leave their positions at the koppie, and who

14 took what you call higher positions, so that the TRT and

15 NIU would be able to access them?


17 nee – ekskuus, mnr die Voorsitter, ek het net gesien u is

18 besig. Nee, dit het glad nie gegaan net oor die persone by

19 die koppie nie want sou ons dan met die uiteendrywing begin

20 het, sou die persone dan outomaties wegbeweeg het van

21 hierdie koppie af. So dit is nie beperk gewees net tot die

22 koppie en net tot die militante groepie wat stilgesit het,

23 of sou stilsit, of net in koppie 1 of 2 nie. Ek het getuig

24 in my vroeëre getuienis dat sou die “dispersion” aangaan

25 die persone in 'n noordwestelike rigting dan sou



Page 203251 weghardloop. Dit is ook wat ons vandag weet koppie 3. So

2 die “dispersion” sou aanbeweeg na daardie geval toe, en ek

3 wil net vir u sê dat die TRT, soos u gesê het die “tactical

4 forces, where they can deal with them,” dit was glad nie

5 die ideaal nie. Die “tactical forces” sou net die

6 “sweeping” gedoen het. Dit is slegs die Openbare Orde

7 Polisiëring, die Pappa Nyalas waarmee ek gekommunikeer het

8 wat die “dispersion” gedoen het. Die TRT sou net dan

9 “assist” het met van die arrestasies, sou daar wees, maar

10 hulle sou glad nie gebruik gewees het vir uiteendrywing

11 nie.

12 CHAIRPERSON: Ja, but that’s not entirely

13 right, is it? Because I understood the evidence was that

14 the plan provided for the following situation; that the POP

15 members could have come under attack, would then have

16 retreated, taken refuge in the armoured vehicles, and then

17 the TRT people would then have dealt with the situation.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek het suiwer nou net

19 gepraat op die uiteendrywing, Kommissaris.

20 CHAIRPERSON: No, but the

21 “uiteendrywing,” the dispersion –

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja.

23 CHAIRPERSON: - might well have been

24 accompanied by armed resistance –

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit sou –

Page 203261 CHAIRPERSON: - on the part of the

2 members of the militant group, who might well have attacked

3 the POP people, and which would have necessitated a retreat

4 by the POP people to the safety of the Nyalas, and the TRT

5 people would then have taken over.

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: En dit is –

7 CHAIRPERSON: That’s part of the plan.

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: In daardie geval, ja,

9 Kommissaris. Die eerste een het ek net verduidelik op die

10 uiteendrywing.

11 MR MPOFU: Ja, again correct me if I’m

12 wrong; my impression was this, Brigadier, that the people

13 who would have either voluntarily upfront, or by way of

14 obedience to your instructions or warnings or whatever,

15 would have left, would be allowed to do so, so much so that

16 even if they were carrying dangerous weapons, they would

17 have been allowed to proceed because after all, you knew

18 that you were going to do phase 6 and search the places

19 later. Is that a fair summary of what you anticipated to

20 happen?


22 Voorsitter, dis glad nie so nie. Die persone was wel, die

23 wat gehoor gegee het aan die waarskuwing en hulle wapens

24 neergelê het, hulle kon vrylik beweeg in die rigting van

25 Nkaneng, wat ek hier gewys het. Die persone wat verhoed

Page 203271 het, of versuim het – dis die regte woord – om hulle wapens

2 dan neer te lê, daardie persone sou benader geword het,

3 indien hulle in 'n groepering was uiteengedryf is,

4 geïsoleer gewees het, ontwapen geword het, en gearresteer

5 gewees het. So dit is ook ten doel van die opvolgaksies

6 wat ons gehad het. Al die persone in die veld wat geweier

7 het om wapens neer te lê is dan in daardie geval

8 gearresteer. Niemand sou gearresteer gewees het as jy jou

9 wapens neerlê en vrylik wegbeweeg nie. Dit was die

10 ooreenkoms met hulle.

11 CHAIRPERSON: How many troops did you

12 have in the field to make these arrests? I mean I use

13 “troops” in the loose sense in which it has been used up to

14 now. How many arresters did you have, people who would be

15 able to make arrests?


17 het nie 'n presiese getal by my nie, maar ek kan dit vir u

18 gee. Dit is die –

19 CHAIRPERSON: A rough estimate.

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - Openbare Orde –

21 CHAIRPERSON: Rough estimate.

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - Nyalas wat opgevolg

23 het. Ek dink daar is, hoeveel Nyalas het opgevolg? Kom

24 ons vat 10 en daar is 'n seksie van agt per Nyala, omtrent

25 80 –

Page 203281 CHAIRPERSON: You’re talking about 80

2 people.

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Plus dan die –

4 CHAIRPERSON: And assuming all –

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Plus dan die TRT wat –

6 CHAIRPERSON: And how many TRT people

7 were there?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek kan nie vir u

9 presies sê in die voertuie nie.

10 CHAIRPERSON: Roughly.

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Daar was so, sê maar

12 drie of, twee of drie per Nyala wat dan sou die OOP

13 ondersteun het met van die arrestasies.

14 CHAIRPERSON: Well, if all 400 militant

15 people – assuming there were 400, assuming they all had

16 dangerous weapons, if they all decided we’re going off now

17 back to Nkaneng, taking our weapons with us, would you have

18 been able to, in fact able with the forces at your disposal

19 to have arrested them all?


21 glo wel so. As ons hulle uiteengedryf het met die Openbare

22 Orde Polisiëring en jy breek hulle op in kleiner groepies,

23 is dit dan baie makliker om daardie arrestasies uit te

24 voer. So ek glo wel ons sou in 'n posisie gewees het om

25 daardie arrestasies te doen.



Page 203291 MR MPOFU: Forgive me for asking you the

2 same thing, but I want you to be sure about this. There

3 was no talk – are you saying that there was no talk or

4 expectation or anticipation that some of those people who

5 would leave could do so with their weapons on the basis

6 that those weapons would in any event be recovered during

7 phase 6? Was there such an idea?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As ek u reg verstaan

9 is dat u verwys na fase 6 waar daar dan 'n opvolg sou

10 gewees het van die deursoekings. Is dit waarna u verwys?

11 MR MPOFU: Yes, but just so that we don’t

12 get another long answer, I just want you to understand that

13 I’m not discussing that phase now. All I’m saying is that

14 in the safe knowledge that there would be these follow-up

15 and search operations, and for that reason it was

16 anticipated that some of the people would be followed up

17 later, so that – do you understand what I’m saying?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek verstaan wat u

19 sê.

20 MR MPOFU: It’s either you – there are

21 two possibilities. It’s either you said look here, not a

22 single person must pass through these gates or this gap, or

23 whatever, who is carrying a dangerous weapon. That’s

24 situation A. Situation B is look, preferably they must

25 hand over their weapons, but if they don’t, still let them

Page 203301 through because remember, we are going to get them in phase

2 6. Which of the two was it?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: U proposisie 1 is

4 nooit moontlik in daardie geval. Dit is baie moeilik om

5 dit te verseker dat ons almal sal hê. U sal wel onthou dat

6 ek getuig het in die noordwestelike rigting het daar baie

7 mense wegbeweeg. In die oostelike rigting, selfs op

8 hierdie foto, is daar baie van hierdie mense wat hier

9 wegbeweeg na, op die tyd van hierdie foto is dit baie

10 moontlik dat van hierdie mense wat hier wegbeweeg het na

11 Nkaneng toe wel van die “protesters” was, van die militante

12 groep en wat dan wel gewapen was, en ons weet dan later was

13 daar wel 'n deursoeking wat na 'n “cordon and search”

14 verwys is, waar nog 'n groot aantal wapens wel weer gekry

15 is. So ja, ek stem saam met u, u tweede gedeelte, dat dit

16 is baie moontlik dat die persone, ons het nooit voorsien

17 dat ons sê honderd persent van dit, almal wat wapens dra

18 sou kon in die hande kry nie en ons het geweet die wat wel

19 wegbeweeg sal ons dan op 'n latere stadium, daar so 'n

20 operasie wees.

21 MR MPOFU: Good. And that must indeed be

22 so because if you look at paragraph 13.9 of HHH20, which is

23 consolidated statement of Duncan Scott, 13.9 – sorry, page

24 83 bottom, to 84, it says there, “It was mentioned that any

25 strikers who moved away after the verbal warning could do

Page 203311 so without incident. There would be a follow-up action,

2 being phase 5 and 6, to retrieve as many of those weapons

3 as possible at their places of residence.” I’m just saying

4 that reinforces the point that you and I agree on, that

5 people were – I wouldn’t go as far as to say allowed, but

6 were expected to pass through with weapons in the safe

7 knowledge that they would be retrieved later, correct?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink ons het op

9 daardie punt saamgestem, ja, mnr die Voorsitter.

10 MR MPOFU: Ja.

11 CHAIRPERSON: What is said here at the

12 top of page 84 and the foot of page 83 refers to strikers

13 who walked, who moved away after the verbal warning. So

14 that was in fact even later than the time we’re busy with

15 here. People could have moved away, and in fact did move

16 away long before the verbal warning was given, and they

17 could have gone with their weapons as well.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is hoekom ek in

19 die begin verwys het na die twee aparte, die heeltyd net

20 wil teruggegaan het na daardie een toe ook, mnr die

21 Voorsitter. Maar dit is bevestig hier ook.

22 MR MPOFU: And yet – okay, sorry, I

23 thought Adv Tokota wanted to say something else. Maybe he

24 pressed the light –

25 CHAIRPERSON: He was saying something to

Page 203321 me, but not to you.

2 MR MPOFU: Okay. Well, the light was on.

3 Okay, and yet despite that dispensation of accepting, to

4 put it at the lowest, accepting that people could go

5 through even with weapons, you had a specific intention to

6 block the so-called militant group from proceeding to

7 Nkaneng, correct?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As u praat van toneel

9 1, wat my opdrag daar was, dit was gewees om te “disperse”

10 en blok. Dit was ten opsigte van die onverwagte aanval wat

11 op die lyn geloods is dat ek daardie opdrag gegee het, ja.

12 MR MPOFU: It’s my fault again, ja. I

13 didn’t mean block in that sense. I’m saying even before

14 the “toneel 1” took place you were so minded as to prohibit

15 or restrict the militant group from going to Nkaneng, or

16 towards Nkaneng. You wanted to prevent them from doing so,

17 as a specific intent harboured by you and the others.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As u sê voor insident

19 1, ek wil net weet op watter stadium dan kan ek u vraag

20 antwoord.

21 MR MPOFU: No, at any stage. I’m saying

22 one of your goals – maybe let me put it that way – one of

23 your goals was to prevent the militant group from

24 proceeding like the other people.




Page 203331 is net weereens versigtig, net om die vraag reg te

2 verstaan, “at any stage during the day,” was sy vraag

3 gewees. So daarop stem ek nie saam nie. Selfs die

4 militante groep het deur die dag vrylik beweeg. So hulle

5 was nooit verhinder. Slegs toe die opdrag gegee is fase 3

6 was dit as beskou, wat ons gewys het as 'n “negative

7 attraction point” teenoor 'n “positive attraction point,”

8 as dit is waarna u verwys.

9 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay. That’s a fair

10 point. During the operation itself one of your goals was

11 to prevent the so-called militant group from going towards

12 Nkaneng, correct? Or not correct?


14 Voorsitter, nie korrek nie.

15 MR MPOFU: Alright.

16 CHAIRPERSON: It looks to me as if you

17 were possibly trying to prevent them from going in a

18 northerly direction into Nkaneng, but if some of them had

19 decided to go in a north-westerly direction and approached

20 Nkaneng from the western side, you had nothing in place to

21 stop that.

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is wat ek na wil

23 verwys het, mnr die Voorsitter. Dit is heeltemal korrek.

24 CHAIRPERSON: So in fact they could have

25 frustrated your whole operation by all going off in a

Page 203341 north-westerly direction and getting into Nkaneng via the

2 western side, then you would have achieved only this; you

3 would have cleared the koppie for the time being, but all

4 the people who were in possession of dangerous weapons

5 would have remained in possession of dangerous weapons.

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dan sou ons van voor

7 af seker weer begin het met die onderhandelingsfase –

8 CHAIRPERSON: Well, then you would have

9 done the cordon and search, but –

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: En fase 5 van die

11 fase.

12 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, ja, but how long that

13 would have taken and how successful that would have been,

14 and if they’d all come back to the koppie the next morning

15 you would have been back where you started. That’s right,

16 isn’t it?

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek glo op daardie

18 stadium sou hulle teruggewees het by die koppie die

19 volgende dag, sou ons die inligting miskien gehad het deur

20 middel van ons “crime intelligence,” en dan sou die besluit

21 gewees het ek glo dieselfde, dat ons hulle miskien van daar

22 af dan net uiteendryf miskien op 'n ander metode, miskien

23 weet ons dat hulle nie op die draad gereageer het nie, so

24 daar was moontlikhede, mnr die Voorsitter, waarna ons wel

25 kon gekyk het. Maar beslis sou daar 'n opvolg operasie

Page 203351 gewees het.

2 MR MPOFU: Okay, well I’ll find the

3 passage. Brigadier, I don’t want to confront you with

4 something that I don’t have at hand. I will find the

5 passage, but I put it to you that your evidence-in-chief

6 was that – or well, it might not be in chief, but I think

7 my recollection is that it was your evidence-in-chief -

8 that part of your evidence was that you had specifically

9 formed the intent – and I say “you” collectively – to

10 prevent the so-called militant group, as opposed to the

11 other people proceeding towards Nkaneng.

12 [12:14] MR SEMENYA SC: That was never the

13 evidence.

14 MR MPOFU: I’ll find it, it is there,

15 Chairperson. Okay, we’ll come back –

16 CHAIRPERSON: My recollection is that, as

17 I’ve put to him a few moments ago, that all they really had

18 in mind was stopping them from proceeding into Nkaneng

19 through what one can call the northern boundary of Nkaneng,

20 that’s all, but even that wasn’t put specifically in chief,

21 I don’t think, I think Mr Semenya is right but anyway, if

22 the passage can be found and Mr Semenya and I are wrong we

23 will accept it as we have –

24 MR MPOFU: I’ll find it, it is in

25 Afrikaans. Okay, we’ll come back to that. Now I want to,

Page 203361 before I go to my next topic, to put something to you

2 regarding, again something that we discussed last week

3 about, remember when I said the leadership protects people

4 and so on and so on, do you remember that discussion, yes?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As u verwys na die

6 polisie wat u gesê het die leierskorps van die polisie?

7 MR MPOFU: Van die polisie, ja.

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek onthou daardie

9 beweringe wat u gemaak het, ja.

10 MR MPOFU: Alright, I want to short

11 circuit this by saying this, one of the things I’m going to

12 argue about your statement at the parade is that it was

13 intended to poison the minds of the members of the police

14 by suggesting to them what the official line is, namely

15 that, look, there is going to be this Commission and our

16 line is going to be self defence, that was your intention.

17 It was to disseminate to the group that you were

18 addressing, the fact that the defence is self defence.

19 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Semenya, you’ve put your

20 light on?

21 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair, in fairness the

22 witness must be taken to that address and –

23 MR MPOFU: Good –

24 MR SEMENYA SC: - and be pointed to which

25 element of that address has this –



Page 203371 MR MPOFU: No, that’s a fair objection,

2 Chair.

3 CHAIRPERSON: You don’t oppose the

4 objection, I’m pleased, I concur, Mr Mpofu.

5 MR MPOFU: I support the objection,

6 Chair. 82, Chairperson, JJJ –

7 CHAIRPERSON: JJJ?

8 MR MPOFU: 82, yes, the chairperson is

9 correct, ja. Sorry, just one second. Sorry, Chairperson,

10 it is where he says there is going to be a commission.

11 CHAIRPERSON: It looks like around about

12 the reference 807, is it?

13 MR MPOFU: 807, yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

15 MR MPOFU: Yes, starting from about 750,

16 he says that then the president and so on got the same view

17 and you can read it in the papers. Then he announced that

18 there will be a board of inquiry, which is the Commission I

19 suppose. Some of you might wonder, are you with me, Mr

20 Brigadier?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek is met u, Advokaat.

22 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay. “Some of you might

23 wonder what is now going to happen. Remember after any big

24 action there is now a board of inquiry that will sit and

25 then take it frame by frame, minute by minute of what

Page 203381 happened, alright? The police will give 100% full

2 cooperation, okay. At this stage we did nothing wrong.

3 From the planning to the execution was 110%, exactly how we

4 planned it” and so on, we’ve read that before.

5 CHAIRPERSON: If you’re looking for the

6 self defence, it is two lines after 920.

7 MR MPOFU: 920? Yes, that’s the part I’m

8 looking for, “and that is where the TRT line and the NIU

9 line was formed and when they come under attack, that is

10 where the command was given by their commanders as well as

11 some of them act in self defence,” but the gist of this

12 question is what you say after that. “Self defence,

13 alright, so on that nothing, nothing, nothing was wrong you

14 acted, it was justified and that is exactly the commitment

15 and the cooperation that we are going to give to the

16 people.” You’ve already admitted that what you meant by

17 the people there was the Commission, correct?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek stem so ver saam

19 met u, wat u lees.

20 MR MPOFU: Ja, now what I’m saying is

21 that you then, what you were doing here was to say to the

22 people, this is what happened and then they came under

23 attack and then it was self defence and that is the

24 commitment, that is exactly the commitment and the

25 cooperation we are going to give to the Commission. In

Page 203391 other words what I’ve just told you now, which is that it

2 was self defence is exactly the Commission, rather, sorry,

3 the commitment as you call it, that you are going to give

4 to the Commission of inquiry that I’ve referred you to.


6 ek net kan versoek dat nie net die een lyntjie, ek dink

7 daardie een het ons 100 keer al oor verduidelik, oor wat

8 presies my strekking van my woorde was en wat ek daarby

9 bedoel het. Ek wil net vra in regverdigheid miskien daar

10 by 10:44, as die advokaat net daardie 10:44, daardie

11 paragraaf ook kan lees, sal ek bly wees, asseblief?

12 MR MPOFU: I’m sorry, it is my fault

13 again, I don’t know what you’re saying now, what should the

14 advocate do? Okay, -

15 MR SEMENYA SC: Your mike, your mike

16 Chair, is not on.

17 MR MPOFU: Chairperson, your mike but

18 yes, I got the point.

19 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

20 MR MPOFU: Alright, Mr Brigadier, please

21 believe me, we are going to get to that paragraph just now,

22 I can assure you 100%. All I’m saying to you now is that

23 the passage that I’ve read to you that talks about how

24 exactly the commitment to the Commission is going to be

25 done is the one that is specifically suggesting to the

Page 203401 members that the “line” is self defence. What do you have

2 to say about that?

3 MR SEMENYA SC: And the witness has

4 already answered, that you are isolating one sentence, you

5 must read it in a particular context. The witness can be

6 prevented from doing that.

7 MR MPOFU: No, the witness can be

8 prevented if the other passage he is referring me to has

9 nothing to do with what I’m putting to him.

10 CHAIRPERSON: Anyway, the point is –

11 MR MPOFU: Well, I want a proper answer –

12 CHAIRPERSON: If the witness wants to

13 give an answer you must let him give his answer, that’s

14 all. So let’s stop for a moment, Mr Mpofu. You understand

15 what Mr Mpofu is putting to you. He says that what you did

16 in the speeches, you conveyed to the members present what

17 the police defence, as it were, to these allegations was,

18 so they would know what it was so that they could stick to

19 that defence. That’s essentially what he is putting to you

20 and he says, and he relies on the phrase nothing was wrong,

21 you acted, it was justified, that’s exactly the commitment

22 and the cooperation we’re going to give the people, he says

23 that means what you were saying to them, that’s the story

24 you’re going to tell to the Commission, you see, that’s his

25 point. Now what comments to you have on that and if there



Page 203411 are other passages in the address to which you wish to

2 refer in order to rebut the allegations being put to you,

3 you’re free to do so.


5 Voorsitter. Dit is presies wat ek, - ek sien die advokaat

6 praat, ek wil net hê hy moet die antwoord luister. Dit is

7 presies waarna ek verwys het toe ek vir u gesê het dit is

8 glad nie so nie. As u dit lees in die konteks, “It was

9 justified and that’s exactly the commitment,” met ander

10 woorde die ondersteuning wat ons aan hierdie Kommissie gaan

11 gee, dit verwys nie na die woord “self defence” en exactly,

12 gaan ons bly by self defence nie. Dan kon hulle dit wel

13 verstaan het as ek vir u gesê het “and some of them acted

14 in self defence,” wat dan, hoe sou die ander dit verstaan

15 het, wat ek ook verduidelik het. Ek het na daardie verwys

16 wat net hulle vuurwapens gebruik het, so deur te sê die

17 lede kon dit so verstaan, dit is glad nie so nie. Hoekom

18 ek na die ander paragraaf wil verwys, u sal sien 9:50 en

19 10:26 is my sin onderbreek, ek was besig om met die TRT te

20 praat en toe is ek onderbreek deur die video persoon, die

21 kameraman wat ons gesien het en dit het ons alreeds

22 bespreek.

23 By 10:44 gaan ek aan na waar ek opgehou het met

24 die TRT, met ander woorde daardie twee paragrawe was ons

25 onderbreek. Ek het iets anders gesien, ek het die aandag

Page 203421 daarop gevestig, toe ons dit klaar bespreek het gaan ek aan

2 met hulle, mnr die Voorsitter, en as u my toelaat dat ek

3 dit net so lees, “but there is no secret in what we are

4 doing.” Met ander woorde daar het ek presies vir hulle

5 gesê teenoor wat u nou beweer het ek het gesê, “and we say

6 it openly, we say it yesterday to the media, if you shot 25

7 R5, then you say, I shot 25. If you had one magazine and

8 it is necessary to put the second one you say so. Why,

9 because the Crime Scene experts, the LCRC, everybody was on

10 the scene, they already retrieved the cartages, alright.

11 In the newspaper this morning it was something like 400

12 cartages.” U sal onthou dat daar media berigte was oor wat

13 al gevind was. “That is why they say in the media, so

14 unless that we say, no, I only fired two shots but there

15 were 5 or 400 cartages picked up, you understand what I’m

16 saying. You have got nothing to hide, please do not.”

17 So ek het vir die ouens duidelik herhaal hier en

18 toe het ek vir hulle verduidelik, net om alles op te som,

19 why die vuurwapens sou gevat word, dit sou Ballisties toe

20 gestuur word, IPID ondersoek en ek het weereens herhaal die

21 derde sin van onder af, “You got nothing to hide,” vir die

22 spesifieke TRT. So dit was vir my baie duidelik ’n

23 bevelvoerder wat sy mense motiveer en vir hulle sê om die

24 waarheid te praat en net die waarheid en dan daarby te bly.

25 Die inligting waarna ek vroeër verwys het, dit is wat ek

Page 203431 beskryf het wat gebeur met POP, dit is wat ek beskryf het

2 wat gebeur het met TRT, soos dit aan my oorgedra was deur

3 die commanders vir die lede wat nie daar was nie en vir die

4 benefit van dat almal verstaan op dieselfde prentjie en toe

5 ek die lede aanspreek wat wel geskiet het, het ek vir hulle

6 gesê, mnr die Voorsitter, daar is niks om weg te steek nie,

7 gee ’n 100% samewerking, dit wat u sê is dit wat u gedoen

8 het.

9 So om te sê ons probeer die mense protect of iets

10 toesmeer, dit het ek nog nooit gedoen in my 27 jaar

11 loopbaan as ’n polisiebeampte nie en seer sekerlik nie in

12 my posisie wat ek vandag is nie en ek sal dit ook nie doen

13 nie.

14 MR MPOFU: Okay, well, in pursuance of

15 that argument and I’m giving you an opportunity to comment,

16 I’m going to use the fact that there was no need for you to

17 spell it out, so to speak, apart from trying to be

18 schooling these people as to what they should say at the

19 Commission. There was no need for you to say, and then it

20 was the TRT line and then it was the NIU line and then they

21 were given command and then it was a self defence, and then

22 it was justified, that’s exactly the commitment you are

23 going to give to the Commission of inquiry. This was

24 simply there after all.


Page 203441 nee, dit is waar die advokaat die fout maak, daar was op

2 daardie dag lede daar gewees wat vir die eerste keer daar

3 opgedaag het. Hulle was op daardie parade en hulle moes

4 ingelig gewees het wat daar gebeur het. Al die lede was

5 nie daar nie, so dit het ek in my antwoord reeds vir u

6 gesê.

7 MR MPOFU: Okay, fair enough. Then why

8 was it necessary only for you to relate this part, if that

9 was the motivation then you should have told the whole

10 story, when K9 did this, because when K9 did that all the

11 others were not there, and then STF did this, do you

12 remember, because POP was not, - that’s not, the only point

13 at which you decided to inform people who were not there

14 about what happened, is the one where you wanted them to

15 know that the story is self defence and I’m going to

16 suggest that you were schooling those members and in an

17 irregular fashion suggesting to them the theory of self

18 defence. What will you say when I present that argument to

19 the Commission?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, my

21 antwoord bly staan, dit wat ek gesê het is baie duidelik,

22 my getuienis daaroor is baie duidelik en dit wat op daardie

23 dag, ons praat van binne 24 uur aan my bekend gemaak was,

24 dit is waarop ek comment gelewer het. Die doel van die

25 hele toespraak was egter iets anders wat op daardie dag sou



Page 203451 plaasgevind het, daardie was maar net ’n deel om die ouens

2 in te lig wat nuut bygekom het. So ek stem glad nie saam u

3 nie en u sal miskien weet of, ek weet nie waar u dit gaan

4 kry nie, oor watse tipe bevelvoerder ek is en as u gaan kyk

5 na my, hoe kan sê, my track record en dit wat ek doen en

6 die mense wat, daar was nog nooit so iets gewees nie, wat

7 ek enigsins beskuldig was daarvan nie. Ek het ’n skoon

8 rekord, ek is nog nooit aangekla van enige iets nie,

9 beweringe van daardie aard nie, so u het my gevra wat my

10 antwoord daarop sal wees, so nee, ek stem glad nie saam met

11 u nie en die feite is op die tafel.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay, -

13 MR SEMENYA SC: In consolation, Chair, I

14 will attempt to meet that argument when it is presented.

15 CHAIRPERSON: Well, we never expected you

16 to do make the attempt, Mr Semenya.

17 MR MPOFU: I would have started that

18 sentence with the words, “Needless to say,” from Mr

19 Semenya, I wouldn’t expect lesser from him, ja, but fine,

20 basically you disagree with me. Okay, so –

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Totally, ja.

22 MR MPOFU: Yes, now and Mr Semenya will

23 pursue that further in due course. The second, once again

24 I’m doing this, Mr Brigadier, so that when I do criticise

25 you, you won’t be here to defend yourself. It is for you

Page 203461 to be able to arm Mr Semenya with your short answers to

2 pursue that argument. So I’m now going to give you another

3 opportunity to defend yourself against another criticism

4 I’m going to give. The second criticism I’m going to give

5 is in relation to the paragraphs that you referred me to,

6 10:44. That’s why I was saying we are coming to that, and

7 that criticism is this, to summarise it, what you were

8 saying to those people there is, you must tell the truth

9 about how many shots you fired because they already know,

10 because they have the evidence. In other words you must

11 tell the truth simply because LCRC has taken the videos,

12 not because it is a good thing to tell the truth, whether

13 LCRC has got the evidence or not. You must tell the truth

14 literally ja, because they will find out, these people of

15 the Commission. What do you have to say to that criticism?


17 nee, voor ek persoonlik raak, nee, kom ek sê net ek verskil

18 met u heeltemal. Ek dink nie u verstaan die operasionele

19 terme nie, ek dink nie u verstaan hoe die operasionele sy

20 van die polisie werk nie, so ons sal dit miskien met re-

21 examination verduidelik weer ’n keer, met alle respek,

22 dankie.

23 MR MPOFU: Okay, you’re right, I don’t

24 understand all the terms but I understand one word, “why”,

25 because it gives the reason. You said, “If you shot 25

Page 203471 R5,” whatever that is, “then you say I shot 25.” “If you

2 shot 25 R5 then you say I shot 25, if you had one magazine

3 and it was necessary to put a second you say so. Why,”

4 you’re asking yourself a rhetorical question, “because the

5 Crime Scene experts, the LCRC, everybody was on the scene,

6 they already retrieved the cartages, alright.” Now that I

7 understand, I may not understand the technical terms of

8 operational things, but the word “why” and “because” I

9 understand. You say they must say that there were 25, why,

10 because the Crime Scene experts have been there and they

11 already retrieved the cartages. So the two must be linked

12 by the word “why” and “because”, correct?

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink u sal die

14 antwoord vind as u net ’n bietjie verder aflees, sal dit

15 vir u duidelik word.

16 MR MPOFU: Well, it only reinforces what

17 I’m saying. You then say, “Alright, in the newspaper this

18 morning it was something like 400 cartages,” once again you

19 are schooling them, “that is what they say in the media.

20 So it is useless to say, it is useless that you say, no, I

21 only fired 2 shots.

22 [12:34] But there were 500 or 400 cartridges picked up,

23 you understand what I’m saying? Doesn't that mean –

24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: And then –

25 MR MPOFU: No, no please –

Page 203481 CHAIRPERSON: Give him a chance to finish

2 his question. Then I’ll make him give you a chance to

3 finish your answer.

4 MR MPOFU: To answer, yes. I was then

5 saying that, that reading on only reinforces what I’m

6 saying. Once again you are saying that it's useless to say

7 no I fired two shots because they found 500 cartridges. In

8 other words if it wasn’t for the fact that they find this

9 500 it wouldn’t be useless to lie and say I fired two shots

10 when you fired three or whatever it is.


12 Voorsitter, die advokaat het nou gerieflikheidshalwe of

13 miskien, ek weet nie of hy net by die vraagteken gestop, u

14 antwoord waarna u soek is in die volgende sinnetjie. You

15 have got nothing to hide please do not. So dit is baie

16 eenvoudig dat ek die lede nie net geskool het soos wat u

17 beweer nie, ek het vir hulle gesê hulle het niks om weg te

18 steek nie en soos enige goeie bevelvoerder na enige voorval

19 ons was betrokke by hoeveel skiet voorvalle het ek altyd

20 vir my lede gesê, kêrels alles wat ons nou gedoen het hier

21 sit alles op skrif laat alles uitkom, gee die volle

22 samewerking, alles wat jy, so dit is hoe ‘n bevelvoerder

23 moet motiveer. As ek enigsins wou iets wegsteek het ek vir

24 die ouens gesê voordat julle enige verklaring maak kom

25 praat eers met my, voordat julle enige verdere statement



Page 203491 maak aan IPID waarskuwing, kom praat eers met ons laat ons

2 regspan eers daarna kyk, laat ons nou eers probeer ‘n

3 storie, weet as mens enigsins wou wegsteek kon mens sulke

4 woorde gesê het. Ek kon op hierdie stadium het ek nie eers

5 geweet hierdie video kom kommissie toe nie. Dit was twee

6 dae na die tyd, dit was bedoel vir iets anderste. So u kan

7 duidelik sien dit was nie ‘n voorbereide toespraak vir die

8 kommissie nie, dit was ‘n voorligting aan my lede en dit

9 was hoe ek hulle motiveer het en daarom het ek, glo ek het

10 alle na alle eerlikheid die verklarings en die inligting

11 wat ingesamel is dit sodoende gedoen.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay, once again I’m, this is

13 something that Mr Semenya and I will be engaged with much

14 later but while you are here I want to give you a chance to

15 defend yourself. I’m saying that these words I accept that

16 you said that you have nothing to hide and so on and so on,

17 but when you communicate you communicate for a purpose.

18 When you say to these people A do not, rather you must say

19 it as it happened why, because the LRC has been there and

20 secondly you say separately they know how many cartridges

21 were there so it will be no use for you to say you shot one

22 or two as suppose if you shot more. Then clearly what you

23 are saying and this is what I’m going to argue is not that

24 you must tell the truth because you would have sworn before

25 God and it's a good thing to do, to tell the truth and if

Page 203501 you shot three shots you must just say you shot three

2 shots. You are saying that because that is because there

3 is objective evidence which will be used against you if you

4 lie. So do not lie because they know, not do not lie

5 because it's a good thing to do. That was your message.

6 What is, I’m just giving you a last chance to defend

7 yourself against that so that you can arm Mr Semenya later

8 to refute my argument.


10 last chance sal ek dit die enige tyd vat, want ons

11 debatteer die punt al in die, maar nee ek stem glad nie

12 saam met u nie. Ek het die feite aan u gestel en ek het

13 ook gesê hoekom dit gesê was. So ek kan glad nie dink dat

14 ons werk nie hier met ‘n groep, ek wil amper sê, al die

15 lede wat hier was is opgeleide polisiebeamptes, die meeste

16 van hulle met range, wat al jare ondervinding het so ons

17 werk nie hier met iemand wat vir die eerste keer op ‘n

18 toneel was. ‘n Lid van die publiek wat miskien ‘n skoot

19 afgetrek het of in ‘n ongeluk betrokke was en nou probeer

20 jy vir hom sê hoor maar dit gaan volg nie. Ek dink ‘n

21 groot presentasie van hierdie lede is openbare orde

22 polisiëring lede wat jare en jare se ondervinding het en

23 wat by duisende insidente betrokke was, ek praat van skiet

24 voorvalle, uiteendrywings. So dit is nie nodig om hulle te

25 skool nie, dit is belaglik. Maar dit is my woorde, dit is

Page 203511 nie wat ek sê u sê nie. Dankie, mnr die Voorsitter.2 MR MPOFU: No, I can take it. Alright, 3 so it's belaglik, it's laughable what I’m saying.4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, belaglik is nie 5 laughable nie maar -6 MR MPOFU: What is it?7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, kom ons –8 CHAIRPERSON: Belaglik is ridiculous.9 MR MPOFU: It's even worse than

10 laughable.11 CHAIRPERSON: What he’s saying, well no. 12 What he’s putting to you is the point that you’re making he 13 says is ridiculous. That’s his opinion.14 MR MPOFU: Sure.15 CHAIRPERSON: At the end of the day Mr 16 Semenya may say something along the same lines in more 17 polite language and you will deny it.18 MR MPOFU: Yes, no I’m just confirming, I 19 don’t want to accept an insult that I haven’t understood. 20 Okay.21 CHAIRPERSON: - an insult, that’s just a 22 strong way of saying he doesn't agree with what –23 MR MPOFU: Ja.24 CHAIRPERSON: And he thinks your point 25 doesn't, isn’t really a good point at all.

Page 203521 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay. Fine. So, okay

2 fine so it's belaglik, alright. Now the, I’m now going to

3 go into something which might even maybe even more belaglik

4 which is the possibility that you, Brigadier Calitz gave

5 the instruction for the people to be killed on the 16th at

6 scene 1 at least.

7 MR SEMENYA SC: No, Chair, we have to be

8 seriously responsible about the propositions we put. Mr

9 Mpofu, has no basis whatsoever that the witness gave

10 instructions for the shooting at scene 1. There’s no basis

11 for it at all.

12 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, you remember that

13 if you’re going to put a proposition of that kind you have

14 to refer to evidence, either direct evidence or

15 circumstantial evidence which justifies what’s been put.

16 You can't just make the allegation out of the air as it

17 were to the witness.

18 MR MPOFU: Yes, well –

19 CHAIRPERSON: On that ground we’ve gone

20 over often before in this commission.

21 MR MPOFU: Chairperson, quite frankly Mr

22 Semenya cannot be suggesting that this is the end of my

23 cross-examination. I’m obviously going to, I said I’m

24 going to canvas a particular topic. I can’t be stopped

25 from saying what topic I’m going to canvas with the



Page 203531 witness.

2 CHAIRPERSON: I’m not stopping you, I’m

3 just reminding you of what the rules are.

4 MR MPOFU: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON: That I assume –

6 MR MPOFU: I know what the rules are.

7 CHAIRPERSON: That you either got, I’m

8 not sure of any direct evidence that’s before us at the

9 moment on this point. For that matter, but there’s got to

10 be some evidence which justifies the proposition being put

11 to the witness. That I think is Mr Semenya’s contention.

12 MR MPOFU: The evidence of Colonel

13 Vermaak which is in GGG17. Yes, if you can assist me

14 because I can’t find my copy, just move it up, I think it's

15 paragraph 7. Thank you. What Colonel Vermaak says there

16 is that, I’ll read it out and I’ll try and do what the

17 Chairperson usually does, ja the, I’m starting at the

18 beginning of 7. It says that the group moved back and

19 regrouped on the side of the kraal.

20 CHAIRPERSON: - the group moved back and

21 regrouped again on the other side of the kraal.

22 MR MPOFU: Yes.

23 CHAIRPERSON: Photo 1516 –

24 MR MPOFU: That’s exactly what I –

25 CHAIRPERSON: And the policemen, “and

Page 203541 attacked the policemen again at about 15:55. It was clear,

2 it had been noticed clearly observed clearly from the air

3 that the group was not going to surrender or yield.

4 Brigadier Calitz again gave the members the instruction to

5 mount an operation. It almost appeared as if the members

6 did not hear. Because of the incident on Monday the 13th of

7 August where the two police members under the helicopter

8 had been hacked to death I realised that the members would

9 have to act in order to defend themselves.”

10 MR MPOFU: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON: “I again repeated Brigadier

12 Calitz’s instruction from out of the helicopter whereupon I

13 saw that the members were acting. Groups (attackers)

14 photos 1517 ran away in the direction of the squatter

15 houses adjacent to the scene at 15:56. At 15:58 we flew

16 over the scene and noticed that a number of people were

17 lying on the ground. The members grouped again in a line

18 in order to be able to handle any further attacks photo

19 1518. At 16:01 the mass –

20 MR MPOFU: That’s fine, Chairperson.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Is that as far as you want?

22 MR MPOFU: Yes. Now here you, do you

23 agree firstly with what Colonel Vermaak is saying as far as

24 this concerns you?

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, as dit is wat uit

Page 203551 die lug uit waargeneem het, ek kan nie met hom stry nie,

2 dit is sy waarneming. Ek kan nie sê wat hy waargeneem het

3 nie.

4 MR MPOFU: Alright, now he says

5 effectively that you gave an order for action to be taken,

6 so that far you agree?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink dit is

8 duidelik op rekord al, mnr die Voorsitter.

9 MR MPOFU: And then he says it looked

10 like the members could not, at least to him, this may or

11 may not be so, but to him it looked like the members did

12 not hear your instruction or your command or your order,

13 correct?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sien wat hy daar

15 sê.

16 MR MPOFU: And he says because of what

17 had happened on the 13th where policemen had been killed,

18 chopped he realised that those members to whom you were

19 giving the instruction should act to protect themselves or

20 their lives, correct?

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sien wat hy daar

22 skryf.

23 MR MPOFU: And simply because he thought

24 you didn’t hear or rather the rightly or wrongly that the

25 members did not hear your command he repeated it and they

Page 203561 then obeyed the instruction, correct?2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sien wat hy gesê 3 het dat hy die, die opdrag herhaal het maar ook gesien het 4 dat hulle op, laat die lede optree, ja.5 MR MPOFU: Ja, and then the point I want 6 to put to you is that in that sequence these people were 7 supposedly suppose to act in self defence, sorry, sorry to 8 use that broad word, to protect themselves let me put it in 9 that way, in that instance where the people were being

10 attacked according to both you and Vermaak. Correct?11 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair, is this the basis 12 on which that proposition was offered?13 CHAIRPERSON: You’re asking me, I don’t 14 know the answer. But Mr Mpofu –15 MR SEMENYA SC: I can only ask through 16 you, Chair.17 CHAIRPERSON: You’ve heard Mr Semenya’s 18 question, your answer?19 MR MPOFU: Well I think Mr Semenya is 20 just busy interrupting my cross-examination until such time 21 that he thinks I’m moving to another topic –22 CHAIRPERSON: No.23 MR MPOFU: I’m still busy with the cross-24 examination, Chairperson.25 CHAIRPERSON: He’s asking whether this is



Page 203571 the sole basis for the point you’re putting, if the answer

2 for that is no you can say no and you can carry on.

3 MR MPOFU: Ja, I propose to carry on and

4 until such time it's clear that I’ve finished this topic.

5 CHAIRPERSON: I see.


7 CHAIRPERSON: No, no it's not till you

8 finished the topic. He wants the basis upon which the

9 statement is made, that you made, the allegation you made

10 to him. He wants to know what’s that based on and what

11 you, I understand you to be saying is that you haven’t yet

12 finished giving the basis of that statement.

13 MR MPOFU: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON: You want to carry on with

15 that.

16 MR MPOFU: Yes, that’s the topic I’m

17 talking about. It's the allegation, whatever you call it.

18 Brigadier, just answer the question, before the

19 interruption you were just about to answer my question

20 which is that the instruction which is referred to in this

21 passage is, I’m going to argue that is the fatal

22 instruction if you know what I mean, the one that made the

23 people to take that action and that the actions that is

24 referred to is the shooting of the people. What would be

25 your comment if I advance that argument and now Mr Semenya

Page 203581 –

2 MR SEMENYA SC: I’ll still ask the basis

3 of that, for that proposition, Chair.

4 MR MPOFU: Well, Chairperson, the, Mr

5 Semenya is free to differ but if he doesn't understand then

6 that’s really, there’s nothing I can do about that. If he

7 is taking a different view that I can understand but if he

8 doesn't understand the, what I’m putting to the witness,

9 what I’m putting to the witness for acceptance or denial

10 was that, I can’t assist him.

11 CHAIRPERSON: No, it's not necessary to

12 get personal with Mr Semenya now, I hope he won't get

13 personal with you. What he wants to know is what is the,

14 the basis of the allegation you put earlier that this

15 witness ordered the members to shoot the strikers and you

16 put a passage which is the passage in the third line of

17 this paragraph, Brigadier Calitz again gave the members the

18 order to mount, to launch an operation which I take is to

19 be the correct translation, to loots and it almost appeared

20 as if the members didn’t hear and then the order was then

21 repeated by Colonel Vermaak. Now is that the basis for

22 your suggestion that, to the witness, that he gave the

23 order to the members that they must shoot the strikers?

24 MR MPOFU: Okay, yes, no that’s a further

25 question, Chairperson. Let me just put it like this, yes

Page 203591 together with the, maybe I should read, one of the

2 sentences that you read which I’ve not read just to satisfy

3 Mr Semenya where he says –

4 CHAIRPERSON: Never mind Mr Semenya,

5 you’ve got to satisfy me that’s a proper question.

6 MR MPOFU: Well I didn’t know you also

7 had the same problem.

8 CHAIRPERSON: No, no, I haven’t got an

9 objection but I’ve got to rule on these objections.

10 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay.

11 CHAIRPERSON: He just raises the

12 objection, I’ve got to be satisfied either the objection is

13 good or bad and you’ve got to, so in that sense you’ve got

14 to satisfy me. Carry on.

15 MR MPOFU: Any way the sentence says, the

16 sentence which I didn’t read which you read Chairperson is

17 that om, what is it 15:58 het ons oor die toneel gevlieg en

18 op –

19 CHAIRPERSON: To translate that, “at

20 15:58 we flew over the scene and noticed that a number of

21 persons were lying on the ground.”

22 MR MPOFU: Ja. So what I’m saying to

23 you, Brigadier, for your comment is that you give an

24 instruction for people to protect themselves, those people

25 then act according to Vermaak at least and after that a few

Page 203601 people are lying on the ground. I mean I don't think one

2 has to be particular genius to see the point. You may

3 disagree but I’m saying, what I’m putting to you for your

4 comment so that you can defend yourself is that on the

5 basis of the fact that you gave an instruction, that

6 instruction had something to do with defending, with people

7 defending themselves and that instruction was eventually

8 followed up and people were lying on the ground thereafter.

9 On that basis I’m going to argue that the important

10 instruction which had to do with alleged self defence was

11 given by you.

12 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Mr Mpofu, can I

13 just seek some clarity from you please. Where it says in

14 line 3 of paragraph, opdrag gegee om ‘n optrede te loods,

15 are you saying that the interpretation of that phrase

16 should be gave the order to shoot because that literally

17 says gave an order to mount an operation. Are you

18 extrapolating the meaning of that into something else?

19 MR MPOFU: No, no I’m not. I don’t know

20 what an operation that defends yourself is except shooting.

21 I mean, it maybe there’s another method by which they would

22 defend themselves but I’ve never heard of it. The only way

23 I know if they were saying there are people who are

24 attacking them and they must defend themselves surely it

25 didn’t mean giving them tea or something. It was about



Page 203611 doing something to defend themselves against the attack.

2 [12:53] That’s the other argument. Please answer the

3 question.

4 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: I’m sorry, I still

5 don’t follow you, Mr Mpofu - evidence as to exactly what

6 the order was that was given by the witness, just what the

7 words were, so that we can try and see what you say they

8 meant.

9 MR MPOFU: Yes.

10 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Because I’m not

11 sure if they’re include the words, “Protect yourself, or

12 defend yourself.”

13 MR MPOFU: No, I don’t think – with

14 respect, Chairperson, I don’t think that’s necessary that

15 the words must say protect yourself, protect yourself, it

16 could mean – it could say shoot, it could say protect

17 yourself, it could say engage, it could say all sorts of

18 things. I don’t know what the words were? All I’m saying

19 is that the – what is clear from here is that he gave an

20 instruction. That instruction had something to do with the

21 people defending themselves. According to Vermaak, that

22 instruction was not understood and aroused it, he repeated

23 it. He, Vermaak, and then the instruction was obeyed and

24 after that people were dead lying on the ground. That’s

25 all.

Page 203621 CHAIRPERSON: I’ve got difficulty with

2 it, and I think to be fair to the witness, one must take it

3 in context and the context is what appears in the last few

4 sentences of para 6. Brigadier Calitz gave instruction –

5 well, no, let me start a bit higher. Let’s start after the

6 words where it’s photo 15.12, “Instruction was given to the

7 wire cars to uncoil the wire, because the group had the

8 guns and move up and down.” Photo 15.14. 45.40. “They

9 the first time moved to the Nyalas and the wire cars.

10 Brigadier Calitz gave an order to the members of the Nyala

11 to close the doors, because the group was aggressive. The

12 group moved at 15:46 to the kraal where the last Nyala had

13 uncoiled its wire car.” I suppose he means the wire. The

14 group was at that stage approximately 3 000

15 people/attackers. Brigadier Calitz gave an instruction

16 that the members should launch an operation,” the same

17 phrase, the optrede moet loods, “launch an operation to

18 protect themselves against the attack the mass.” Photo

19 15.15. The mass must be the group. Photo 15.15. “The

20 members delayed until the group was practically at them, at

21 the Nyala and the wire cars. Out of the helicopter it

22 could be observed that the water canon was employed and

23 stun grenades and teargas canisters were also used against

24 the attack of the group.”

25 So in that paragraph, the expression, “’n optrede

Page 203631 moet loods,” is followed by use of water canon, stun

2 grenade, teargas. Then he goes on, the bit we read before,

3 “The group moved back and again regrouped on the other side

4 of the kraal, and police attacked them – and attacked the

5 police again at 15h55. And then it was clear from the air

6 that the group was not going to yield. Brigadier Calitz

7 again gave the members an instruction to launch an

8 operation.” The same phrase as that being used in the

9 previous paragraph. “It almost appeared as if the members

10 didn’t hear it,” and then he goes on about because he

11 entered it on the 13th, he realised that the members would

12 act to defend themselves and then he repeated the order out

13 of the helicopter. That’s the full passage in the full

14 context.

15 MR MPOFU: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON: Now, are you suggesting

17 that whatever Brigadier Calitz’ instruction was on the

18 second occasion, even if it was simply like engage, launch

19 an operation, whatever it was, that was the cause of the

20 shooting of the strikers who got shot at scene 1. Is that

21 what you –

22 MR MPOFU: Yes, what I’m saying,

23 Chairperson, is that there are not merits to any words you

24 might have heard, and it’s a rule of logic, the mere fact

25 that he might have said, launch an operation, and referring

Page 203641 to teargas, does not mean when you’re referring to water

2 and saying, “Launch an operation,” it’s now different, or

3 when he’s referring to live ammunition, and he uses the

4 same phrase, that’s, you know, launch an operation, launch

5 an operation, that’s not who I am. I’m not saying he used

6 the same words phonetically to give the instruction, all

7 I’m saying is that, and in fact the part that you have

8 read, Chairperson, reinforces my point, that the first so-

9 called operation that he was talking about, finished, which

10 was the teargas and the stun grenade. We know from Mr

11 Chaskalson’s cross-examination that the first stun grenade

12 and teargas were issued, I think about eight seconds before

13 the people died, if I’m not misquoting Mr Chaskalson. Now,

14 the point I’m – that’s exactly the point I’m making. If

15 that operation of the teargas and all that had been done,

16 and eight seconds later the next that happened was live

17 fire which killed people. So the operation now that

18 followed eight seconds after the traan, whatever it is, had

19 been done, that follows almost a second later, the only

20 next operation is the fatal one, as we know, which killed

21 16 people or 17 people. That’s the proposition I’m putting

22 and it’s based on all those things and those sequences, and

23 I just want the witness to give me a – to refute it. In

24 other words, to say –

25 CHAIRPERSON: There’s a lack of clarity,



Page 203651 because we don’t quite what the words were. We also do

2 know that before the actual firing of what presumably

3 caused the deaths, Colonel Vermaak had also repeated what

4 he considered to be the instructions, and he said he

5 realised that the members would have to act to defend

6 themselves, and then he repeated the instruction again. So

7 it may be better for us to get clarity from Colonel Vermaak

8 what exactly the words were that Brigadier Calitz used and

9 what words he use, but anyway I think the witness

10 understands the point you’re making and I hope he’s in a

11 position to answer it. Do you agree with the proposition

12 put to you, or not?


14 nee glad nie. Soos ek vir hier vir u gesê het, u het die

15 woorde gebruik, “rule of logic.” Dit hang seker maar af

16 van watter kant af jy dit sien. Soos ek weereens vir u

17 gesê het operasioneel, daar’s as jy die – ek kan amper sê

18 my getuienis gevolg het, ek weet nie of jy elke dag hier

19 was nie, ek dink hierdie ding is deurtrap by Advokaat

20 Chaskalson of Budlender, ek’s nie seker wie het my ondervra

21 oor hierdie nie, en daar was baie duidelik gewees aan wie

22 het ek opdragte gegee om wat te doen. Om vinnig te

23 herhaal, die opdragte was gegee om te gaan disperse en te

24 blok. Met ander woorde, dit is vir die Papa Nyalas, en as

25 hy uit die lig uit gesien het die voertuie het nie

Page 203661 gereageer nie, daarom te meer het hierdie opdrag dan

2 herhaal. Ek het –

3 MR MPOFU: Sorry, my attorney was

4 whispering, are you pausing because of that –

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil net graag hê jy

6 moet die antwoord verstaan anderster –

7 MR MPOFU: No, I can –

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Logies vir u. Dan het

9 ons ombeweeg en dit is wat ons na insident 3 toe verwys,

10 waar Kolonel Vermaak, as ek nou reg verstaan, uit sy

11 verduideliking uit, waar hy dan weer die opdrag herhaal

12 het. Dis waar ek vir die voertuie gesê het, beweeg

13 vorentoe, gaan blok en nog steeds was die dispersion action

14 voor op gewees en ek het die heel tyd met die Papa Nyalas

15 gepraat. So daardie evidence, mnr die Voorsitter, glo ek

16 is op rekord, sonder om weer daar deur te gaan en alles te

17 herhaal, maar daar was onder geen omstandighede vir my

18 enigsins nodig om met die TRT lyn te praat. Hulle het

19 hulle eie bevelvoerders gehad. Ek het dit getuig uit, ek

20 dink dit was Karl se dokument wat gewys het ten tye van

21 deurstorm na hulle toe het ek al vorentoe beweeg. So dit

22 was glad nie eers in my lyn van sig nie, So hoe op aarde

23 kan u bevel gee vir iemand wat agter is en dan net my

24 laaste comment is dat daai lede, volgens hulle, dan uit

25 selfverdediging uit opgetree. Die opdrag wat ek gegee het

Page 203671 was om te disperse en te blok. Met ander woorde, net met

2 die Papa Nyalas.

3 CHAIRPERSON: Right, now there are two

4 questions I want to ask you flowing from that? Now, we’re

5 referring now to third line at paragraph 7 of Colonel

6 Vermaak’s statement. He says that – just to remind those

7 who are listening to it, that he said, Brigadier Calitz

8 again gave the members an order to launch an operation and

9 that it almost appeared as if they didn’t hear. And the

10 two questions I want to ask you are these, what – do you

11 accept, you did give an order that an operation be

12 launched? Can you remember what words you used, more or

13 less?


15 ons weet in die eerste geval toe ek nog terug gestaan het

16 was dit die engage, engage, en nader aan die, het ek vir

17 die voertuie opdrag gegee, daar - spesifiek was, toe hulle

18 om die kraal beweeg het na insident 3 toe, het ek vir die

19 voertuie gesê beweeg om, beweeg uit vorentoe, disperse and

20 block.

21 CHAIRPERSON: So what Colonel Vermaak is

22 talking about is when the group – when this group of people

23 regrouped on the other side of the kraal, you’re talking

24 about that. So you say that what you then said to them was

25 disperse and block.

Page 203681 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit sou die – ja.

2 CHAIRPERSON: That was preceded by what?

3 What was the full order, instructions?

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Vir die Papa Nyalas om

5 my te volg. Ek dink op ‘n stadium het ek gesê volg my en

6 ons gaan om, en van daardie stadium het die lede die

7 voertuie alreeds voor beweeg, het ek vir hulle gesê gaan

8 vorentoe en disperse. Met ander woorde, -

9 CHAIRPERSON: In other words, you said go

10 ahead. Did you speak English or Afrikaans?


12 dit sal Engels gewees het.

13 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So you said

14 something like go ahead or, go forward, disperse - block

15 and disperse, is that –

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - onder die onderdruk

17 sou ek iets gesê het soos Papa Nyalas, move, move, move

18 forward, go and block and disperse, block them, disperse

19 them, ja. Dit sou die –

20 CHAIRPERSON: So you’ve actually answered

21 my second question already. The second question was going

22 to be to whom was the instruction given? So the answer

23 just to summarise, to make sure I understand correctly,

24 answer to the two questions I was going to ask you. One,

25 what exactly did you say? And you said it Papa Nyalas must



Page 203691 move forward and block and disperse. And inherent in that

2 answer is the answer to the second question, that

3 instruction was given to the Papa Nyalas.

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is beslis so, Mnr

5 die Voorsitter.

6 CHAIRPERSON: Not to the TRT.

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek het onder geen

8 omstandighede met die TRT gepraat nie.

9 CHAIRPERSON: That’s your evidence on the

10 point.

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit was ook die

12 voorligting gewees kan ek sê.

13 CHAIRPERSON: So when Mr – now, we know

14 the shooting was done by the TRT people. So when Mr Mpofu

15 suggests to you that they fired because of an instruction

16 that you gave them, you don’t agree with that? You deny

17 that, is that correct?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek verskil heeltemal

19 daarvan, Mnr die Voorsitter, daar’s geen bewyse daarvoor

20 nie.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, I see it’s now

22 after 1 o’clock, perhaps you’d like to – if you want to

23 resume this point, let’s deal with very shortly, you can do

24 so after lunch, but the full point you want to raise now

25 before lunch before you move onto another point, obviously

Page 203701 you can to do it now. I’m in your hands.

2 MR MPOFU: Ja, just one, Chairperson. In

3 this – and I can accept that you won’t remember the exact

4 words, but in this range of things that you – of words

5 rather that you may have used to give that instruction,

6 that includes the words “engage,” you might have said that,

7 correct? That’s what you said.

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Toe ek nog staties

9 was, die eerste een het ek gesê vir hulle, “Engage,

10 engage,” en daarna het ek vir hulle gesê dit was by

11 insident 1, insident 2, dis nog voordat Nyala 4 toegemaak

12 het. Dit is korrek.

13 CHAIRPERSON: - concentrating on what you

14 said after the group had gone around the kraal and

15 regrouped on the other side of the kraal and -

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek.

17 CHAIRPERSON: And the words that you used

18 then, which you’ve repeated to me several times, did they

19 include, or could they possibly include the words, “Engage,

20 engage?”

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit kan ‘n

22 moontlikheid wees dat ek dit weer gesê het, mnr die

23 Voorsitter, ek sal dit nie kan onder eed nou sê ek het dit

24 glad nie gesê nie, nee.

25 MR MPOFU: And sorry, I misled you, I

Page 203711 said this would be the last question.

2 CHAIRPERSON: You misled me to, Mr Mpofu,

3 more serious.

4 MR MPOFU: Yes, I’m actually addressing

5 you, Chairperson, when I say that. The last issue or

6 question I want to put to you in this line is, if that word

7 “engage,” was issued or uttered immediately before the

8 shooting of the people, by you or anybody now, it might be

9 you. I’m suggesting that it’s you obviously, because of

10 this, but that’s not what I’m asking you now, if that word

11 was uttered immediately before the shooting, then I would

12 be justified to say that was the instruction or command to

13 kill the people, or shoot them, at least, correct?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek stem nie saam met u

15 nie. Dit is glad nie die strekking van daardie woorde nie

16 en as jy die lede wat miskien na my sal kom getuig sal vir

17 u sê dat daardie woorde gebruik ons nooit in ‘n geval van -

18 as ons moet skiet sal die opdrag wees, vir ‘n persoon,

19 disperse. Engage het net simply beteken die ouens moet nou

20 toe tree tot ‘n optrede en hulle moet vorentoe gaan.

21 Daarna het ons spesifiek begin praat oor disperse, die

22 action modes van block, arrest, encircle, al daardie action

23 modes is weer gebruik.

24 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, it looks as if

25 this is suitable stage for us to take the lunch

Page 203721 adjournment.

2 MR MPOFU: It is, Chairperson, and I’ll

3 come back to that thing.

4 CHAIRPERSON: It is now ten past one. We

5 will resume at five to two, I think. I hope we’ll resume

6 at five to two. I want everybody to try and be here at

7 five to two.



10 [14:08] CHAIRPERSON: The Commission resumes,

11 you’re still under oath, Mr Brigadier. Mr Mpofu?

12 MR MPOFU: Chairperson, just before, no,

13 I see Mr Semenya is not here, I think in fairness I’ll

14 raise this point when he is here because it was a point of

15 dispute me and him about what was said. Thank you,

16 Chairperson.

17 CHAIRPERSON: If I wasn’t aware of the

18 fact that he wasn’t here I wouldn’t have come in the

19 Chamber if I’d he wasn’t. Let’s ask the relevant –

20 MR MPOFU: No, I think they’re prepared –

21 CHAIRPERSON: Please, is it in order if

22 we proceed in his absence?

23 MS BALOYI: It is Chairperson.

24 CHAIRPERSON: I don’t want to prejudice

25 your clients.



Page 203731 MS BALOYI: No, it is in order,

2 Chairperson.

3 CHAIRPERSON: I’m not suggesting you

4 can’t look after their case properly, but you know what I

5 mean. We can carry on without him?

6 MS BALOYI: We can indeed.

7 CHAIRPERSON: Alright, thank you.

8 MR MPOFU: Yes, now I also assumed,

9 Chair, Ms Baloyi is more than competent to do it, but I

10 just, because it was raised specifically between me and Mr

11 Semenya, that other point. Alright, we’ll come back to

12 that, I wanted to get it out of the way. Brigadier, you

13 agree with me, don’t you, that the instruction engage,

14 engage, engage, whether it is said once or three times, can

15 include an instruction to shoot.

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek stem nie saam

17 met u nie.

18 MR MPOFU: So your evidence is that under

19 no circumstances in the police can that instruction include

20 and I’m using the word “include” advisedly, I don’t dispute

21 that it might mean a whole lot of other things, but I’m

22 saying or your evidence is that under no circumstances can

23 it be used to include shooting, using live ammunition.

24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: In the police

25 operationally, no, not at all.

Page 203741 MR MPOFU: Alright, and if somebody were

2 to give evidence that they heard the word “engage” being

3 said or the instruction to engage being said immediately

4 before the shooting, would you quarrel with that version?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: No, any person can

6 come and testify whatever he/she heard he was saying, if

7 he/she understand it in that way I want to see that

8 statement because that will be a first. We don’t issue

9 that kind of instructions when you speak about, if you want

10 to give an instruction, engage is just, soos ek in

11 Afrikaans gesê het, dit is ’n toespring teken, met ander

12 woorde raak betrokke, gaan vorentoe, almal nou, dit is die

13 teken wat gegee word, almal raak betrokke, daarna kom die

14 spesifieke opdragte van disperse of block of, jy weet ons

15 noem dit action modes in die polisie, en spesifieke

16 opdragte om te skiet weet ek nie of daar gegee is op die

17 dag vir TRT nie. Sovêr ek weet het hulle in self

18 verdediging opgetree, ek dink nie daar was enige opdragte

19 gegee om te skiet nie, nee.

20 CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean by the

21 word “engage”, did you use the word “engage” when you say

22 you could have done?


24 ja, ek dink dit is reeds op rekord, ons het daaroor getuig.

25 CHAIRPERSON: Ja, now what –

Page 203751 BRIGADIER CALITZ: En dit is ’n toespring

2 teken om betrokke te raak, met ander woorde ek sal dit

3 volledig sê, ek sal vir hulle sê sodra almal nader moet

4 beweeg, betrokke raak by die operasie en van daar af sal

5 daar duidelike opdrag –

6 CHAIRPERSON: Betrokke raak, to become

7 involved?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: To become involved,

9 ja.

10 CHAIRPERSON: And in what way did you

11 attend them to become involved?


13 dit is waar ons dan vir die betrokke bevelvoerders gesê

14 het, die Kolonel Pitsi, die Kolonel Mere, die Makhubela,

15 daardie Papa Nyala voertuie, van daar af sal die opdragte

16 kom en van daar af sal hulle dan vir hulle eie lede die

17 opdragte gee soos wat dit voor hulle afspeel op daardie

18 stadium. Ek sal die uiteendrywings opdrag gegee het en dan

19 van daar af sal hulle dit verder vat.

20 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Mpofu, are you

21 going to put the passage and the evidence of the persons to

22 whom you were referring?

23 MR MPOFU: Yes, just now, Chairperson, if

24 I may just, I just want to be clear first. So we’ve now

25 excluded the shooting of live ammunition. Does the word

Page 203761 “engage” also exclude the shooting with rubber bullets and

2 teargas, those kinds of things, in other words non lethal

3 ammunition, I don’t want to use the word ammunition because

4 –

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Less lethal –

6 MR MPOFU: - it also includes water and

7 things like that. That’s non lethal force, ja, that’s the

8 word I’m looking for. Does it also exclude the “shooting”

9 as it relates to non lethal force?

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, soos ek gesê het,

11 mnr die Voorsitter, dit is net ’n toespring teken vir die

12 lede om betrokke te raak en daarna sou daar dan duidelike

13 opdragte wees. As dit uiteendryf is sou daar ’n opdrag

14 gewees het, gaan disperse, vir die waterkanon, gaan

15 vorentoe, gaan doen dit, so daar sal spesifieke opdragte

16 wees dan rondom elke aksie.

17 MR MPOFU: Chairperson, you’ll forgive me

18 again because I don’t have the reference directly to hand

19 now, but I’ll just put something to you, if you dispute it

20 then I’ll find the reference, don’t worry. I want to put

21 it to you that that evidence on the word “engage” is

22 untruthful because General Annandale said that the word

23 engage, like you, you said excluded live ammunition but you

24 said this includes non lethal force and you’ve just

25 differed from him.



Page 203771 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek

2 kan nie sê nie, ek weet nie wat General Annandale se

3 getuienis in die geval is nie. Ek sê net hoe ons dit

4 bedoel het op die grond en daarna wat die opdragte was wat

5 dit gevolg het.

6 MR MPOFU: No, that I understand, Mr

7 Brigadier, all I’m saying is that if I’m correct and I’ll

8 find the passage now, that General Annandale said engage

9 includes the use of non lethal force and you are saying it

10 excludes it, you can’t both be right, one of you is right,

11 one of you is wrong and that I will suggest is part of both

12 of you avoiding the obvious, which is that engage includes

13 shooting. What will your comment be?

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Engage includes

15 definitief nie die woord “shoot” nie en dan sou dit bedoel

16 het op die less lethal sal die woord wees, daar sal verdure

17 opdragte wees, met ander woorde al die aksie stappe soos to

18 encircle, to disperse, to make arrests, al daardie woorde

19 kan nie saam gevat word net deur een woord nie. Die lede

20 sou dit so verstaan het, ek het dit later ook weer wel

21 gebruik waar ek gesê het, engage, move out, en wat die lede

22 bedoel het van, waar ek bedoel het maak arrestasies, klim

23 uit die voertuie uit, so dit is hoe die bevelvoerders dit

24 dan sou verstaan het, die woord “engage” en die non lethal

25 and the Papa Nyalas sou dan gereageer het daarop. Ek dink

Page 203781 dit was miskien waarna General Annandale kon verwys het, as

2 hy dit so getuig het.

3 MR MPOFU: Alright, can you go to Exhibit

4 Q, slide 43, just a quick reference.

5 COMMISSIONER TOKOTA: Before that, Mr

6 Mpofu, -

7 MR MPOFU: Yes –

8 COMMISSIONER TOKOTA: - I just want the

9 brigadier to refer to slide 199.

10 MR MPOFU: L199?

11 COMMISSIONER TOKOTA: Exhibit L, the

12 second bullet there, it says “The approaching group of

13 protestors attempted to enter in front of Nyala 4 before it

14 reached the kraal. The POP members from Nyala 3 and 4

15 engaged the protestors with rubber and teargas.”

16 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Commissioner, yes.

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Kommissaris, ja, dit

18 is hoekom ek sê ek betwis glad nie die feit as General

19 Annandale so getuig het nie, ek sê net dit sal opgevolg

20 word met verdere aksies deur die Papa Nyala bevelvoerders.

21 Met ander woorde as ons dan vir hulle die opdrag gegee het,

22 dit beteken glad nie soos in die sin van live ammunition

23 nie, glad nie. Soos dit hier staan glo ek dat dit is wat

24 die Nyala3 en 4 se bevelvoerders dan vir hulle opdrag gegee

25 het binne in die voertuig om rubber te skiet, ensovoorts.

Page 203791 MR MPOFU: No, I think the question that

2 the commissioner would like to be addressed is this,

3 remember I’ve said that the only commonality between you

4 and General Annandale is that you say engage excludes live

5 ammunition, so let’s put that aside. I disagree with that

6 but let’s put it aside for now, but the point of difference

7 between you and him is that he says it includes non lethal

8 force and you say it excludes non lethal force. Now the

9 question is, if the police themselves in their own version,

10 which stems from what the commissioner has pointed to you,

11 use that word “engage” in the context of L199 where it says

12 the protestors were engaged with rubber and teargas, then

13 it would seem that your version is incorrect, that that

14 word excludes non lethal force as well, putting aside the

15 fact that it may or may not exclude lethal force.


17 miskien as ek dit net weer kan sê, ek sê nie die woord

18 engage excludes in totaliteit non lethal force nie. Wat ek

19 gesê het is dat dit sal opgevolg word deur die groep

20 bevelvoerders met verdere opdragte wat ons dan verwys na

21 action modes, wat sê nou maar to arrest, to block, to

22 encircle, wat verdere action modes dan daaruit sal

23 voortspruit, at die groep bevelvoerders dan vir hulle lede

24 sal gee. Dit sal nie net op my woorde bly en dan sal die

25 groep bevelvoerders dit net daar los nie.

Page 203801 MR MPOFU: No, no, -

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As ek dit miskien so,

3 en as u verstaan wat ek bedoel.

4 MR MPOFU: Ja, no, it is either you don’t

5 understand or you are deliberately evading the question.

6 I’m saying to you, I asked you nicely whether, I said let’s

7 I accept that the word engage excludes non lethal force for

8 the purposes of, - rather lethal force, for the purpose of

9 the question, and I asked you, does it also exclude the use

10 of non lethal force and I gave you examples of what that

11 means, rubber and so on and so on, and you said, yes, it

12 excludes that and then I challenged that answer on the

13 basis that it differs with that of General Annandale. So

14 you can’t now say you didn’t say it excludes totally, we

15 didn’t use those kind of totally or whatever. The issue or

16 let me ask you the question again, does an instruction to

17 engage include or exclude the use of non lethal force?


19 wil nou net seker maak ek verstaan dit reg dat ek nou nie

20 weer aangehaal word dat ek dit verkeerd sê nie. Ek sê dit

21 exclude dit nie totally nie, dit moet net opgevolg word.

22 Daar sal verdere opvolg wees deur opdragte deur die groep

23 bevelvoerders, met ander woorde dan sal dit seker dan wees

24 dit exclude dit nie, as dit ’n reguit antwoord is wat u

25 soek, as ek dit reg verstaan nou.



Page 203811 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Can I just ask you,

2 after you give a command “engage”, for a police person then

3 to use rubber or teargas there would have to be another

4 command?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek,

6 Kommissaris, die woordjie net “engage” sal, u weet dit

7 is ’n toespring teken vir die non lethal, ek praat van die

8 Papa Nyalas. Kom ons ’n voorbeeld, met ander woorde

9 Kolonel Pitsi met sy groep, hy sou dit dan gehoor het en

10 dan sal hy dan verder vir sy mense gesê het, met ander

11 woorde vuur rubber daar of traangas daar of stun grenade

12 hier, dit sal opgevolg word met sekere aksies want ’n lid

13 kan nie ’n haelgeweer gebruik en rubber skiet sonder ’n

14 direkte opdrag nie. Dit is wat ek sê, dit is net ’n

15 toespring teken vir al die groepe, dit is onmoontlik vir my

16 vanwaar ek sit om vir elke Nyala en vir elke voertuig

17 presiese opdragte gee wat hy moet doen, dit is net

18 onmoontlik. Ek het nie die vermoë of die visie om te sien

19 waar elkeen van daardie verskillende voertuie en wat voor

20 hulle afspeel nie.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Can I put it to you the way

22 I understand it just to make sure I’ve got it right? I

23 understand you to say the word “engage” is a non specific

24 instruction, it means something like take action, do

25 something as it were, but it doesn’t say what has to be

Page 203821 done. It simply indicates something must be done and then

2 the specific action that is required will be the subject of

3 a further instruction, presumably either given by you if

4 we’re in a position to give it, or by one of the other

5 commanders. Am I understanding it correctly?

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink, dit is

7 heeltemal so, mnr die Voorsitter, die groep bevelvoerders

8 sal presies geweet het wat dan met die non lethal, om te

9 doen en watse opdragte vir hulle lede te gee want volgens

10 ons Staande Orde 262 moet daar sulke spesifieke opdragte

11 wees aan die lede, so dit is korrek.

12 MR MPOFU: Okay, so what you are saying

13 really is that in this situation that was described by

14 Colonel Vermaak of people who needed to protect themselves,

15 where you may have said “engage”, then you would say engage

16 and then stand back and then someone else, because engage

17 can mean a whole lot of things. You must now say which

18 engage this is and say, engage, and then teargas, engage,

19 stun grenades, engage, water, really is that your evidence?

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dit is glad nie

21 wat ek getuig het nie en dit was ook nie my woorde gewees

22 nie, mnr die Voorsitter.

23 MR MPOFU: Okay, anyway let’s go to –

24 MS BALOYI: Chairperson, before Mr Mpofu

25 moves to Q2 he asked the witness the witness whether if

Page 203831 anyone were to come and testify that they heard the word

2 engage immediately before the shooting, would he quarrel

3 with that. Now it is important to know what you prepare

4 for –

5 CHAIRPERSON: I’m sorry to interrupt you,

6 I did ask him about that. There is a witness who says that

7 and I asked him if he is going to put that and he said he

8 would.

9 MR MPOFU: I will.

10 CHAIRPERSON: And I understood him to

11 indicate that this other exhibit he is now referring to is

12 being referred to first before he refers to the witness who

13 made the statement about engage, engage, engage, which is

14 in one of the statements which you’ll hear about in a

15 moment and in fact it is in one of the statements listed by

16 Mr Mpofu in the list of documents to which he is going to

17 refer in cross-examination. It is in the bundle of

18 statements to which he refers, so I’m sure we’ll get there

19 and if he doesn’t I will, but –

20 MS BALOYI: Thank you, Chairperson.

21 CHAIRPERSON: I understood him to say

22 that this Q Exhibit he is going to put first before he puts

23 the other thing.

24 MR MPOFU: Yes.

25 CHAIRPERSON: Is that correct, Mr Mpofu?

Page 203841 MR MPOFU: That’s correct, Chairperson,

2 but for the benefit of my learned colleague I’m quite happy

3 to do that now and take away the suspense.

4 CHAIRPERSON: You say it is Exhibit

5 GGG19?


7 CHAIRPERSON: Page 17, paragraphs –

8 MR MPOFU: 59.

9 CHAIRPERSON: - 56 to –

10 MR MPOFU: To 59.

11 CHAIRPERSON: - 59.



14 ek net weer, waarna, ekskuus tog, ek het nie die bewysstuk?

15 CHAIRPERSON: I was being premature

16 perhaps but it is Exhibit GGG19, on the list of exhibits to

17 be used in cross-examination it is number 11 and once you

18 have that you will see on page 17 of the statement, it is

19 page 17, it is paragraph 56 and following. I take it

20 that’s it, is it Mr Mpofu?

21 MR MPOFU: Yes, I’m on 57, ja, but 56 is

22 fine, we can start there.

23 [14:28] You can read quietly, or I can just take you to

24 the specific passages.

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: No, I’ve got it, and I



Page 203851 know what Mr Botes was saying here.

2 MR MPOFU: Yes.

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: And we can go through

4 it, that’s fine.

5 MR MPOFU: Right, okay. Firstly I just

6 want to take you to the middle of 57 where he says that, “I

7 just heard the words on the SAPS radio communication

8 system, ‘Engage, engage, engage,’” and then he didn’t have

9 good visuals and so on, and then you go to paragraph 59,

10 which is the gist of what I was saying, that my colleague

11 Adv Baloyi was referring to, and that’s where he says,

12 “Other than for hearing the word ‘engage,’ which was

13 repeated a few times immediately before the shooting

14 started, I did not hear any specific instruction for the

15 use of live ammunition.” Now if you understand what that

16 sentence is saying, is that he’s talking specifically about

17 the use of live ammunition. So that shooting, you

18 understand the word “shooting” in context. Now he says

19 other than hearing that word “engage” used immediately

20 before that shooting, he didn’t hear any other instruction.

21 In other words the only instruction he heard immediately

22 before the shooting was “engage.”

23 CHAIRPERSON: That’s not what he says.

24 He says, “Other than for hearing the word ‘engage,’ which

25 was repeated a few times immediately before the shooting

Page 203861 started, I did not hear any specific instruction for the

2 use of live ammunition.”

3 MR MPOFU: Well, Chairperson, it doesn’t

4 matter where we do the intonation. What he’s saying there

5 is that apart from hearing that instruction to engage he

6 did not hear any specific instruction for the use of –

7 CHAIRPERSON: For the use of live

8 ammunition –

9 MR MPOFU: But I don’t want to debate the

10 semantics –

11 CHAIRPERSON: No, the point is he might

12 well have heard an instruction for the use of non-lethal

13 force. In other words “Engage, engage, engage” might have

14 been followed by a further instruction from one of the

15 commanders for the use of some kind of –

16 MR MPOFU: Fair enough.

17 CHAIRPERSON: - non-lethal force.

18 MR MPOFU: Yes, but –

19 CHAIRPERSON: All he says is he didn’t

20 hear, apart from the word “Engage, engage,” which he

21 obviously appears to interpret as meaning, or including the

22 use of live ammunition –

23 MR MPOFU: Yes.

24 CHAIRPERSON: - he did not hear any

25 specific instruction for the use of live ammunition.

Page 203871 That’s what he says.

2 MR MPOFU: Okay, I’ll accept that that

3 interpretation is also competent. But in any event, the

4 point is you now see where the – I was invited to point you

5 to where there’s a witness who says that there was “engage”

6 immediately before the shooting. There it is. What do you

7 say?


9 nee, ek weet van die “witness.” Dit is, ons het dit nooit

10 ontken dat ek daardie woorde gesê het nie. Ek dink in my

11 “evidence-in-chief” het ek dit al gesê en verduidelik wat

12 ek daarby bedoel het. So dit is nie nou dat dit skielik

13 nou uitkom nie.

14 MR MPOFU: Okay.

15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil net verwys na

16 paragraaf 58, net bo hierdie een. As u dan kan sien

17 paragraaf 57 maak hy weer die woorde “Engage, engage,

18 engage,” en dan sê hy dan in paragraaf 58, die eerste

19 sinnetjie, “Brigadier Calitz requested that the units must

20 move around as they have planned to disperse the group.”

21 Dit moet hy gehoor het. “Again the water cannons were

22 called to be used. I could not see at that stage where

23 they were used, or the dispersal groups. After the

24 situation unfolded I heard instructions being given for the

25 movement of police vehicles, including Kwelas” – that must

Page 203881 be Nyalas – “to transport those people,” no, that must be

2 Canters, “to transport those people arrested.” So hier is

3 dit duidelik dat na die “engage” wat in paragraaf 57 is het

4 dit hier gesê wat hy verstaan het daarmee, soos ek hom

5 verstaan, “plan to disperse the group” en dit was dit

6 bedoeling gewees. En as 'n ou by 59 kyk lateraan sê hy

7 net, “Subsequently I heard the SAPS radio system that more

8 people have been shot at the ‘klein koppie.’” Ek dink hy

9 verwys dan net na 'n verdere, die koppie 3. Maar ek dink

10 nie ons moet uit die oog uit verloor dat dieselfde persoon,

11 hoe hy dit verstaan het, volgens my dat ek die groep wil

12 “disperse” en dat ook die opdragte wat hy daar gehoor het

13 nie. So dit is ook baie duidelik in dieselfde “witness” se

14 verklaring.

15 MR MPOFU: Okay, so you agree with Mr

16 Botes.

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: I did say the words

18 “engage,” en ek het die bedoeling wat ek daarby bedoel het

19 gegee. Ek dink dit word gestaaf in paragraaf 58 van mnr

20 Botes se verklaring, my bedoeling wat ek gegee het, en ek

21 het nie ontken dat die woorde wel gebruik is nie, nee, en

22 ek sien nêrens dat hy iets gehoor het dat die opdrag gegee

23 was om te skiet nie. So die selfverdediging wat ek gesê

24 het die lede het opgetree staan ek nog steeds by.

25 MR MPOFU: Well, firstly I put it to you



Page 203891 that Mr Botes’s evidence, obviously he’ll come and

2 elaborate on it, but in the same vein that I don’t then

3 intend to recall you, so I have to give you what I want to

4 say, which is that Mr Botes’s evidence at this stage seems

5 to be clear that he heard the word “engage” immediately

6 before the shooting, and it’s clear that he’s referring to

7 the live ammunition, and I put it to you that you used that

8 word immediately before the shooting as an instruction for

9 the people to be killed.


11 verskil. Dit is onmoontlik; van waar my posisie was kon ek

12 nie eers daardie persone gesien het nie. So dit is

13 onmoontlik om daardie opdrag te gegee het. Dit aan die een

14 kant, en dan mnr Botes weet ons is 'n sekuriteitsbeampte by

15 die myn, nie 'n polisiebeampte nie, so ek weet nie hoe sou

16 hy dit verstaan het teenoor wat ek getuig het my

17 polisiebeamptes dit sal verstaan, wat jare ondervinding het

18 in die Openbare Orde Polisiëring nie.

19 MR MPOFU: Yes, and one of those

20 “polisiebeamptes” with that long experience is Colonel

21 Scott, correct?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Kolonel Scott het jare

23 ondervinding in die Spesiale Taakmag, en nie Openbare Orde

24 Polisiëring nie.

25 MR MPOFU: Okay, let’s just explore this

Page 203901 further with one more example, well two more, but let’s go

2 to one. If you go to Scott’s statement, 19.1, which is

3 HHH20, Chairperson –

4 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Watter bladsy?

5 MNR MPOFU: 92. 92. It says there,

6 “After Brigadier Calitz had initiated the operation, some

7 minutes later I heard the intensity increase in the radio

8 communication with Brigadier Calitz calling the Nyalas on

9 their Papa call signs into some formation and to engage.

10 He was repeatedly calling the water cannons to come forward

11 and engage. It sounded like they were under some form of

12 attack.” What do you say to that?

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, dit is soos

14 Kolonel Scott dit gehoor het oor die radio, dit is presies

15 so waar ek opdragte gegee het vir die Pappa “call signs,”

16 to come into some formation. Dit is die formasie waarna ek

17 verwys het. Die woord “engage,” weereens ek ontken dit nie

18 dat ek dit gesê het nie, en dan het ek gesê die formasie

19 wat hy hier van praat is dan die “disperse” en blok.

20 MR MPOFU: So Colonel Scott is lying, or

21 mistaken, one of the two?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, dis glad nie wat

23 ek gesê het nie. U sit nou woorde in sy mond. Ek sê vir u

24 presies wat hier in die paragraaf staan en wat hy gesê het,

25 wat ek gehoor het direk uit die gesprek uit, paragraaf

Page 203911 19.1.

2 MR MPOFU: No, Brigadier, please, I’m not

3 putting words into Colonel Scott’s mouth. He puts these

4 words in his own mouth. He says that you made repeated

5 call signs for formations, which you agree with, and to

6 engage. Okay, him, not me, and then he says you repeatedly

7 – not once, repeatedly called the water cannons to come

8 forward and engage. So it’s not my words.


10 dan verstaan ek nie. U sê net so Kolonel Scott vertel 'n

11 leuen. Ek wil net weet watter deel verwys u dan as u sê hy

12 vertel 'n leuen, want ek het saam met u gestem dat ek die

13 woord “engage” gesê het. Ek het saamgestem dat die Pappa

14 Nyalas, “call signs,” come into some formation. Miskien

15 het hy nie alles uitgeskryf soos wat my opdragte was nie.

16 “Some formation” is waar ek vir die persone gesê het “move

17 forward, block and engage,” en dan “Repeatedly calling the

18 water cannons,” dit het ek ook getuig al oor waar ons vir

19 hulle gesê het hulle moet vorentoe gaan en gaan “spray.”

20 So ek kan nie verstaan waar kom die leuen in wat u na

21 verwys hier nie, as u –

22 MR MPOFU: Okay. Okay, fine. Maybe I

23 used a strong word, and I don’t want to have a debate on

24 grammar with you. What I’m saying is that I’m going to

25 argue that the context in which this word is used in this

Page 203921 paragraph by Colonel Scott does not accord with your

2 earlier explanation that “engage” is just a generic word

3 which must always be used with the specific type of non-

4 lethal force that is envisaged, which on its own was a

5 contradiction to what you had said earlier, which is that

6 it excludes non-lethal force, but that’s another story.

7 But what you are saying now is not even twisting these

8 words, but it’s denying the obvious. What will you say to

9 that?


11 nee ek – miskien verstaan ek dit nie reg nie. Ek sal sê

12 soos mnr die Voorsitter dit voorheen opgesom het en gesê

13 het hoe hy dit verstaan, en ek het saam met hom gestem

14 daar. So die allegasies verder wat u gemaak het, kom ek sê

15 net ek stem nie saam met u nie. So dit is op rekord wat

16 ons gesê het.

17 MR MPOFU: Yes. No, you’ll forgive me; I

18 have to give you a chance to explain this. Put aside the

19 fact that I might have used a strong word that, or he was

20 lying, or whatever; all I’m saying to you is that this, one

21 of you is correct. It’s either the word is used as Colonel

22 Scott uses it here, which is engage with water cannon, and

23 as Commissioner Tokota pointed to you, engage people with

24 teargas, engage them with rubber. It’s either that is the

25 explanation, or it’s the explanation you gave that that



Page 203931 word always has to be qualified since it is just a generic

2 neutral term. Those two cannot both be correct and I’m

3 giving you an opportunity to reconcile the two.


5 sien daardie wat Kommissaris Tokota vir ons gewys het nie

6 as Nyala 4 en Nyala 4 “engage into,” dit is waarnatoe hulle

7 gegaan het. Ek kan dit nie sien as dis 'n opdrag gegee

8 deur iemand in daardie sin nie. Dit is nie hoe ek dit in

9 daardie konteks lees in “exhibit” L nie. So daar verskil

10 ek van u, en met 19.1 –

11 MR MPOFU: Okay.

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek is nog nie

13 klaar nie. Ek sien net u gesels. Ek wil net seker maak u

14 hoor. En dan 19.1 stem ek saam met Kolonel Scott, wie sê,

15 en dit is dat “some formation and to engage.” So daardie

16 opdragte het hy miskien nie my presiese woorde saamgevat

17 nie, maar dit is presies waar ek vir die Pappa Nyalas gesê

18 het, en ek glo wanneer hulle kom sal hulle dan daaroor

19 getuig wat ek presies vir hulle gesê het.

20 MR MPOFU: Okay, well I put it to you

21 once again, and don’t worry, I’m going to put it to you at

22 the end as well, but just that in relation to this further

23 example that I’ve given you, that your evidence is

24 fabrication and should not be believed. It’s actually

25 ridiculous.

Page 203941 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter,

2 ja, ek kan dan maar net sê ek stem nie saam met u nie. Ek

3 het voorheen dieselfde opmerking gemaak oor u stellings.

4 Miskien moet ek maar net dieselfde antwoord vir u gee. Dit

5 is belaglik dat iemand kan dink enigiets anderste praat van

6 'n polisiepersoon wat kennis het wat aangaan.

7 MR MPOFU: Okay, now let’s go, my final

8 attempt is – and we’ll see how ridiculous it is – my final

9 attempt is based on exhibit Q, just Q, and it’s slide 43.

10 It’s on the board, or rather, sorry, overhang, ja. You see

11 there –

12 CHAIRPERSON: Have you got the right

13 page? We’re looking at a page about dog handlers at the

14 moment.

15 MR MPOFU: 43. It’s on the screen,

16 Brigadier.

17 CHAIRPERSON: Is this the page we’re

18 supposed to see?

19 BRIGADIER CALITZ: No, I’m just saying

20 it’s not in the bundle that you gave me.

21 MR MPOFU: I know. I know that. It’s on

22 the screen. Can you look at the screen?

23 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sal kyk na die

24 “screen.”

25 MR MPOFU: Ja, okay, do see that at the

Page 203951 first arrow there, the heading is “Tactical Dog Handlers

2 Course, Shooting Exercises.” Okay?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis korrek.

4 MR MPOFU: And the instruments that are

5 referred to are 9mm gun, R5 assault rifle, and a shotgun.

6 Those are all live ammunition, correct?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is, behalwe jou

8 “shotgun,” dit is “baton rounds,” so dit is nie “live

9 ammunition” nie, dis “less lethal.”

10 MR MPOFU: Yes, no fine. But the first

11 two are live ammunition?

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: The first two, dit is

13 “lethal force.”

14 MR MPOFU: R5 is lethal force, yes, okay.

15 Now assault courses, it says, listen – “Move from firing

16 line to firing line, to engage targets two metres to 10

17 metres away.” Insofar as that refers to the R5 and the 9mm

18 handgun, engage must mean shooting live ammunition,

19 correct?


21 ja, nee ek kan glad nie – ek weet nie waar, in watter

22 “presentation” hierdie gebruik is nie. Ek sien dis 'n

23 taktiese K9 “handlers” kursus. “Move from the firing

24 line,” dit sal ek voorsien dis waar die mense aantree, “to

25 engage the targets two metres and 10 metres away,” met

Page 203961 ander woorde hulle beweeg nader, ek kan nie sien dat daar

2 enigsins 'n opdrag is om te skiet nie. So ek –

3 CHAIRPERSON: The trouble is that the

4 heading is “Shooting exercises,” so it looks like a

5 shooting exercise. So what this appears to say in police

6 language, certainly in K9 police language, it seems to be

7 saying that the word “engage the target” is capable of

8 conveying the meaning that a shooting exercise is involved,

9 because that’s the heading, and then the next one, “Stop

10 street ambush, shooting exercise with a dog, send the dog

11 on a suspect, apprehend the suspect while handlers engage

12 other targets,” so that again seems prima facie to convey

13 the notion that the word “engage” is capable in police

14 jargon to involve a shooting exercise, and I think that’s

15 the point Mr Mpofu is putting.

16 MR MPOFU: Thank you very much,

17 Chairperson, that’s the point. Brigadier?


19 ja, weereens ek sien die opskrif, “Shooting exercises.” Ek

20 is nooit betrokke gewees by enige van die K9 kursusse nie,

21 maar ek, nie daardeur te sê dat wat daar staan is nie waar

22 nie. Ek sê maar net soos ek dit “interpret.” Miskien kan

23 ons net, u weet, hierna kyk en miskien iemand wat die

24 kursus aanbied, dat hy dit vir ons kom sê. “Assault

25 courses,” wat ek bedoel dit is nie net “move from firing



Page 203971 line to firing line, to engage,” met ander woorde beweeg

2 van een punt na 'n ander punt “to engage.” So ek sien dit

3 nie rêrig as waar die deel inkom van wie opdrag moet gee om

4 te skiet nie. So ek kan u nie met, verder met hierdie een

5 help nie, nee.

6 MR MPOFU: Well, once again, Brigadier,

7 I’m not going to engage – if you excuse the pun – you in a

8 grammatical debate, or a debate about grammar. I’ll simply

9 put this to you; that you have admitted having given an

10 instruction to engage at different times at the scene.

11 That much we accept, correct?

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is toe ons begin

13 beweeg het en toe ek vir die voertuie sê om vorentoe te

14 gaan. Dit is korrek.

15 MR MPOFU: Ja, Colonel Vermaak suggests

16 that you gave an instruction before he saw the people lying

17 on the ground, and after the teargas and stun grenade,

18 correct?

19 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit was wat ons getuig

20 het by insident 3. Dis hoe ek verstaan het waar hy gehoor

21 het ek gee 'n opdrag en waar hy dit herhaal het.

22 MR MPOFU: Yes. The evidence suggests

23 that the only thing that happened within about eight

24 seconds after the teargas and the stun grenades were shot

25 was the killing of the people. You accept that? Not that

Page 203981 you accept that is correct, but that that’s the evidence so

2 far?

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is wat ons in

4 “hindsight” gesien het, die video’s op daardie stadium.

5 [14:48] Ek het wel getuig uit my oogpunt uit wat in

6 daardie tyd gebeur het. Dit is my getuienis gewees.

7 MR MPOFU: So what must have happened in

8 those few seconds, well at least one of the things we know

9 that happened in those few seconds is that people were

10 killed using among other things R5s and handguns, let’s say

11 just R5s because, correct?

12 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit het ons na die tyd

13 waargeneem en dit is korrek.

14 MR MPOFU: Now it's also clear that your

15 instruction which according to you may have included the

16 words engage or rather Mr Botes had the instruction to

17 engage immediately before the shooting of the people, the

18 killing of the people, correct? From that statement at

19 least, that he really heard that and so on, he’ll be cross-

20 examined.

21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek het u gesê wat ek

22 lees in mnr Botes se verklaring en die gedeelte hoe hy my

23 verstaan het wat ek gesê het.

24 MR MPOFU: Yes, and therefore the

25 conclusion can fatally be drawn that when you gave the

Page 203991 instruction to engage that included the instruction to

2 shoot people with R5s which is live ammunition and to kill

3 them and that you gave that instruction if all these pieces

4 of evidence are put together, including the clear

5 impression that the words you’ve used to include live

6 ammunition unlike what you’ve been denying ridiculously.

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek weet nie van

8 die ridiculously nie, maar ek het op die feite van die

9 grond wat ek vir u gesê het het ek dit ontken en ek sê nog

10 steeds hoe ek die woord engage bedoel het en wat my Papa

11 Nyalas daarby verstaan het. Ek het getuig wat ek gesien

12 het voor my gebeur en hoe ek opdrag gegee het om vorentoe

13 te gaan en onbewustelik gewees of onbewus op daardie

14 stadium gewees van wat agter gebeur by die TRT. So gegewe

15 al die feite en my getuienis die enigste wat ons nie van is

16 hierdie een wat in die K9 is en wel ek weet nie een van die

17 K9 was enigsins naby betrokke by die scene 1 se

18 skietvoorval om, as dit in hulle doktrine is om dit so te

19 verstaan nie. Ek lees dit nie soos as ‘n opdrag om te

20 skiet nie, dit is net om van een punt te beweeg en dit is

21 hoekom ek hier sê from firing line to firing line. Dis na

22 een punt toe te beweeg na ‘n ander.

23 CHAIRPERSON: - to engage you see and

24 that’s obviously the exercise. The exercise doesn't meant

25 to move, this is a number of exercises and the second

Page 204001 exercise on this page appears to be engage in targets from

2 two metres to 10 metres away. So you move from firing line

3 to firing line. You engage the target from two metres or

4 four metres to six metres, that seems to me what it's

5 saying. In the context it looks pretty clear that engage

6 mean fire. But you say that you’re not familiar with that

7 usage of the word, is that your evidence.

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is wat ek hier

9 sien in die K9 se template wat ek nie weet uit watter

10 dokumente dit kom nie, mnr die Voorsitter, as ons dit so

11 kyk maar ek getuig het op –

12 CHAIRPERSON: Q, I don’t know what

13 exhibit, if we look at exhibit Q we will see what it is.

14 The one that we had early on in this case, long ago we had

15 evidence -

16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Maar soos ek sê, mnr

17 die Voorsitter, ja.

18 CHAIRPERSON: Training that various

19 members of the police force got, the South African Police

20 Service basic and specialised training overview you see and

21 this is a document that was put in to tell us what the

22 training people have, in the K9 section is that page which

23 Mr Mpofu showed us. Is this the only reference to engage

24 in the whole of that training manual?

25 MR MPOFU: Well what is actually,



Page 204011 Chairperson, if it's the only one it's good enough, it

2 means shooting people to die, you don’t need to –

3 CHAIRPERSON: I’m just asking is there

4 more, you see the point being raised at the moment is that

5 this just a K9 matter.

6 MR MPOFU: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON: But it may be that in this

8 training manual, I can’t see it, reading it with any

9 careful detail attention previously. There may be

10 somewhere else in the training manual, there’s another

11 phrase, use of the phrase engage which may help you. I’m

12 just asking that in an endeavour to assist but if you don’t

13 want my assistance well you don’t.

14 MR MPOFU: No, I don’t want, yes,

15 Chairperson, I don’t want assistance that comes with words

16 like is it the only reference in this whole manual because

17 that suggests something which is a very –

18 CHAIRPERSON: Actually –

19 MR MPOFU: This is a serious matter by

20 killing people.

21 CHAIRPERSON: You misinterpreted what

22 I’m saying. The thrust of the whole manual was precisely

23 the other way that if engage is in fact used to mean shoot

24 or can mean shoot one would expect the training manual to

25 have other examples of it which would help us if you drew

Page 204021 our attention to them. So I was just trying to help.2 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson.3 CHAIRPERSON: But if was misinterpreted 4 and misunderstood –5 MR MPOFU: Oh.6 CHAIRPERSON: Then I’ll bear that with 7 such fortitude as I can muster.8 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson. 9 Thanks for the help. The answer is no. If you go to the

10 next slide 44 the shotist moves in a predefined platform, 11 point A to point B and engaged 10 targets with his or her 12 shotgun 18 rounds, the shotist, the next one is also 13 shotist will apply striking as well and so on.14 CHAIRPERSON: Charge office Blue -15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter ek 16 kan u regtig nie help nie. Ek, dis die eerste keer dat ek 17 hierdie dokument sien, soos ek sê vir K9. So ek sal moet 18 gaan kyk eers wat die dokumente –19 CHAIRPERSON: The charge office blue does 20 look like as if it's engage and shoot.21 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Charge office blue so 22 ek, nee ek weet glad nie wat die beteken eers, mnr die 23 Voorsitter.24 MR MPOFU: Ja, well the shotist in charge 25 office blue –

Page 204031 CHAIRPERSON: I think the word should be

2 shot –

3 MR MPOFU: Whatever.

4 CHAIRPERSON: We won't go there now.

5 MR MPOFU: Okay. The shotist/shotist but

6 it's a person who shoots will sit behind a table assemble a

7 nine millimetre handgun with live ammunition and engage

8 targets while moving from firing point to firing point and

9 there it only refers to nine millimetre, that’s only live

10 ammunition, correct?

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sien dit in hierdie

12 dokument vir die K9 ja.

13 MR MPOFU: Yes, thank you, no the

14 Chairperson had asked if in this whole document we –

15 CHAIRPERSON: You see that’s why I think

16 there may be other examples in this exhibit because I can’t

17 understand why shotists should only do this charge office

18 blue exercise and no other member of the service should do

19 as well. I would imagine assembling handguns and sitting

20 behind tables and engaging targets while moving is

21 something that not only the K9 people should do but other

22 people should do as well. I’m surprised that the Brigadier

23 himself didn’t have to do that in his younger days.


25 CHAIRPERSON: But we won't go there

Page 204041 either.

2 MR MPOFU: Fair enough.

3 CHAIRPERSON: But what I’m suggesting to

4 you is that exhibit may well have other examples –

5 MR MPOFU: No, that’s fine.

6 CHAIRPERSON: Not just defined to K9,

7 that’s where I came from but you didn’t like it.

8 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson. I

9 think we can make peace on that one. The, Chairperson,

10 the, in fact just to emphasise, sorry Brigadier, just to

11 emphasis the points that the Chairperson is making, is it

12 so that what is, what one calls basic training, there's

13 specialised training and so on, but basic training is one

14 that every member has had to go through? The fact that

15 later they might go to TRT or STF and so on is another

16 matter but basic training covers all the shotists?

17 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, nee ek sal die

18 opskrif as dit sê basic training police college training

19 dan is daar een standaard polisie opleiding by die college.

20 Daarna kry ‘n mens basic training crowd management, basic

21 training K9, basic training STF, so dan begin hulle weer

22 met die spesialiseerde wat ook eers jou basic en dan jou

23 advanced.

24 MR MPOFU: Well for what it's worth I put

25 it to you then that you gave the instruction to kill and



Page 204051 for, because of what we have discussed earlier which is the

2 fact that I tried to demonstrate to you that such killing

3 was not in the circumstances justified or reasonably

4 justified that that, your instructions would attract the

5 charge of murder of those people. What is your comment?


7 nee ek kan maar net sê ek verskil totaal van u oor al die

8 redes wat ons gegee het en dit was my woorde, ek weet wat

9 ek daarby bedoel het en ek dink my voertuie het daarop

10 gereageer, die dispersion, die res van die, dit is duidelik

11 wat daar gebeur het. Die moorde waarna u verwys dit is

12 duidelik sigbaar op die video, ek dink nie hulle het dit in

13 opdrag gedoen nie, dit was wat ons na verwys in self

14 defence.

15 MR MPOFU: And that I will recommend

16 insofar as the commission in the terms of reference is duty

17 bound or enjoined to make recommendations for criminal

18 prosecutions based on what I’ve just said to you, I will

19 recommend that you among other people be charged with

20 murder of at least the people who were killed at scene 1

21 because that, this is instruction at least at this stage

22 only covers scene 1 if you link it to the Vermaak thing and

23 so on. What’s your comment to that? But you’re not the

24 only one.


Page 204061 nee ek dink nie ‘n element van ‘n misdaad is baie duidelik

2 en dit moet bewys word. So as dit u aanbeveling is dit

3 staan u vry om u aanbeveling te maak. Ek kan maar net sê

4 ek verskil van u en dit feite op hand is duidelik oor al

5 die getuienis asook miskien die wat my sal volg.

6 MR MPOFU: Okay thank you.

7 CHAIRPERSON: How much longer are you, I

8 know it's difficult to answer the question over matters

9 over which you have no control, but how much longer do you

10 think you’ll be?

11 MR MPOFU: Chairperson, you know I would

12 have given an arm and a leg to finish today for my own

13 sake. But at this rate we are going, Chairperson, maybe

14 can we take the tea break then I’ll give you a better

15 indication.

16 CHAIRPERSON: That’s why I asked you the

17 question.

18 MR MPOFU: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON: Alright, we’ll take the

20 tea adjournment be back here strictly at quarter past 3.

21 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson.

22 CHAIRPERSON: And then you’ll either

23 have an arm and a leg to give me or some other information.



Page 204071 [15:19] CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brigadier, you’re still

2 under oath, the Commission resumes, you’re still under

3 oath.


5 Voorsitter.

6 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu?

7 MR MPOFU: Thank you, Chairperson. Well,

8 Chairperson, it looks like I might have to give an arm or a

9 leg, I’ve just looked at my material. I think the

10 likelihood is that I’ll finish early Thursday, that’s the

11 next day, but I’m going to try and, I’ll do my best.

12 CHAIRPERSON: Did you say Thursday next

13 week?

14 MR MPOFU: No, this week, Chairperson,

15 that much I can promise.

16 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, go on with your

17 cross-examination.

18 MR MPOFU: Thank you. Chairperson, I see

19 that Mr Semenya is back. I must say Mr Semenya is an

20 ungrateful colleague, I’ve kept my powder dry on that point

21 so that he can come back, but he doesn’t seem to appreciate

22 the gesture, but nevertheless I thought I should round off

23 that point.

24 CHAIRPERSON: If you’d kept your powder

25 dry until the end of your cross-examination and thereafter

Page 204081 he would be more grateful.

2 MR MPOFU: I agree, Chairperson. Yes,

3 there is just a point I wanted to round off before we come

4 back to this, Brigadier, where I was waiting for Mr

5 Semenya. Do you remember there was a debate between

6 yourself and I and Mr Semenya before lunch about whether or

7 not there was a specific intent to block the so called

8 militant group from proceeding to Nkaneng, do you remember

9 the debate?

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja.

11 MR MPOFU: And both you and Mr Semenya

12 suggested that there is no such reference, the chairperson

13 on the other hand said according to his memory, so the

14 chairperson is covered. I wanted to refer you to

15 transcript 17740 and the only mistake I made, do you

16 remember I said I am not sure if that was in chief or under

17 cross-examination?

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Yes.

19 MR MPOFU: I made a mistake there, it was

20 under cross-examination or rather it was not in chief as I

21 proposed here. I’m sorry, page 17740, it was day 27

22 November, which is day 156. Well, I didn’t realise that

23 the Commission has gone on for so long, but I have to say

24 27 November 2013. Okay, it is day 156, Brigadier. Are you

25 on that page? Ja, okay, before we get to that page let me



Page 204091 just ask you, firstly, you do accept that, what you call 2 the peaceful ones were headed to Nkaneng, correct?3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is wat ons op 4 daardie foto gesien het, die persone.5 MR MPOFU: Yes.6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek.7 MR MPOFU: The people who were on that 8 road in front of the kraal, the path in front of the kraal 9 on that photo, correct?

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die persone aan 11 weerskante van Nyala 6, praat u van daardie?12 MR MPOFU: Ja, but in front of those 13 ones, there were people on the path, were they also going 14 to Nkaneng?15 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, ek dink dit is 16 waarna u verwys het op die regter en die linkerkant van 17 Nyala 6, as ons op daardie fotos, dit is wat ek op die foto 18 gesien het, as ek kan reg onthou.19 MR MPOFU: Yes, in front of the people 20 that you and I discussed were on either side of Nyala 6, 21 where other people were actually on the road in front of 22 the kraal, were they also going to Nkaneng like those ones 23 on either side of Nyala 6?24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, 25 dit is wat ek sê, dit is wat ek vir u vra.

Page 204101 MR MPOFU: Well, you can then just say, 2 yes.3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek wil weet na watter 4 foto u verwys, hoe moet ek sê ja as ek nie weet na watter 5 foto u verwys nie, ek is nie seker nie, en ek kan seker 6 maar vra.7 MR MPOFU: But, Mr Brigadier, I’m sorry, 8 you’re the one who referred to a photo, not me, but that’s 9 fine, I’ll take that as a yes.

10 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, 11 kan ek dan vra om die foto te sien, asseblief? Kan ons 12 teruggaan, laat ek net seker maak –13 MR MPOFU: Okay, -14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - want ek weet nou nie 15 –16 CHAIRPERSON: He is entitled to ask to 17 see the photograph if you ask him a question about it.18 MR MPOFU: I didn’t, he raised it.19 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek 20 wil net seker maak, is dit die foto waar Nyala 6 dan, waar 21 hy gesê het die persone is aan die regter en linkerkant, 22 die 191 dink ek of iets in daardie lyn?23 CHAIRPERSON: This is a photograph which 24 is one of the slides in Exhibit L?25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, ja, as dit die –

Page 204111 CHAIRPERSON: 199, I think?

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As dit die foto is

3 stem ek saam, ja, ek was net nie seker waarna hy verwys

4 nie.

5 CHAIRPERSON: So you’ve got a yes, if it

6 is with reference to that photograph.

7 MR MPOFU: No, I’m not referring to any

8 photograph, I’m saying to you the people who were using

9 that road that you’ve dubbed the peaceful ones, were they

10 on their way to Nkaneng, yes or no?

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Miskien moet ons weer

12 teruggaan, laat ons seker maak.

13 CHAIRPERSON: It depends in which

14 direction, they were in the path, Mr Mpofu, people use the

15 path, right, they walk one way or the other. Clearly those

16 walking in one direction are walking in the direction of

17 Nkaneng and those walking in the other direction walk away

18 from Nkaneng. Now are you, - I take it you’re referring to

19 those who were walking in the direction of Nkaneng, is that

20 right?

21 MR MPOFU: Well, Chairperson, I can

22 assure you of one thing, nobody was walking in the

23 direction of the koppie and they were running, they

24 couldn’t be running towards the koppie to their death.

25 CHAIRPERSON: Well, some were running and

Page 204121 some were walking, but you understand the point, Mr

2 Brigadier, there is a photograph, people are walking in the

3 direction of Nkaneng and he wants to know from you whether

4 you accept, because all the people who were walking in the

5 direction of Nkaneng were actually going to Nkaneng, do you

6 understand what I mean?

7 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek –

8 MR MPOFU: Chair, can we –

9 CHAIRPERSON: I would take the answer to

10 that one is, yes?

11 MR MPOFU: Chair, can we ask that slide

12 191 be put up, but this is the context within which that

13 cross-examination is obtained.

14 CHAIRPERSON: That seems a very fair

15 request.


17 die enigste waaroor ek onseker was, hy het gesê hy verwys

18 nie na ’n foto nie, so dit is –

19 CHAIRPERSON: We want the slide 191, is

20 it? There we go, that’s it. Do you see there is a Nyala

21 with a wire trailer behind it, in the bottom, close to the

22 kraal, more or less the bottom left hand quarter of the

23 photograph and one can see people on either side of the

24 Nyala and they do appear to be moving in the direction of

25 Nkaneng. Would you agree with that?



Page 204131 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is die een waarna

2 ek verwys het, korrek, mnr die Voorsitter.

3 CHAIRPERSON: And so what Mr Mpofu wants

4 to know from you is, do you accept that all those who

5 appear to be walking towards the left hand side of the

6 photograph are actually going to Nkaneng, would you accept

7 that?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sal dit so aanvaar,

9 ek kan nie sien in watter rigting hulle loop, maar ek

10 vertrou dit sal in ’n noord-oostelike rigting wees wat dan

11 die voetpad is wat Nkaneng toe gaan, ja.

12 MR MPOFU: Yes, walking or running in

13 that direction.

14 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink voorheen het

15 ons net gesê ons kan nie gesien het running nie, dit is

16 hoekom ek na die foto verwys het.

17 MR MPOFU: Ja, no, no, it is not a big

18 one, it is the police’s own version but we’ll deal with it

19 later. Anyway that was just a precursor really to what I’m

20 going to ask you, which is the point of debate between you

21 and myself and your counsel, and that’s contained in, -

22 firstly, well, I’m sure you’ve read it by now so I won’t

23 ask you the question. 17440, Mr Budlender, you say that, I

24 suppose Mr Budlender was referring you to one of these

25 photos, 193 or 191 or whatever, but there are these photos

Page 204141 that we are talking about. He says, “We can see that at

2 that point people were in fact going past Nyala 5 on the

3 footpath towards Nkaneng,” and then your answer, -

4 MR SEMENYA SC: What line are you at, Mr

5 Mpofu?

6 MR MPOFU: 2, from the beginning, 17440,

7 and then your answer is, “Dit is die vreedsame groep wat

8 gehoor gegee het, nie die protest groep wat aangeval is,

9 wat nie toegelaat sou gewees het om daardeur te kom.” That

10 clearly suggests that you are saying, yes, there are those

11 people who are working past the Nyala, but these are the

12 peaceful group that is compliant, not the protest group

13 which was attacked, I think, which was not to be allowed to

14 go through there. Do you accept that?

15 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair, maybe the punch

16 point is still going to come.

17 MR MPOFU: Ja, well, Mr Semenya, you’ll

18 see the punch point, for now I’m simply asking whether my

19 summary of the witness’ evidence is correct, because the

20 punch point won’t come if I’m incorrect, then I’ll ask for

21 the assistance of the chairperson. Did I sum it up more or

22 less correctly in English?

23 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, mnr die

24 Voorsitter, ek dink ek en mnr Budlender, ek het so vinnig

25 probeer op die bladsy waar u is, as ons ook net teruggaan

Page 204151 na die vorige waarvan ons gepraat het, dit gaan oor Nyala5.

2 Ek dink dit sou ons sien op bladsy 193, op slide 193. Ek

3 dink dit het regtig veel verskil op die foto nie, maar ek

4 dink dit is die een waarna ons verwys het, so as ons slide

5 193 kan sien was dit gewees het, of Nyala 5 dan die voetpad

6 toemaak. Nyala 5 as ons nou kan sien is daardie Nyala aan

7 die regter onderkant van die rooi sirkel wat dan op die

8 voetpad staan. Ek dink die gesprek het gegaan, as ek onder

9 korreksie is, of die voetpad toeganklik was, wat, wat, wat,

10 en dan die lang wit pyl wat afkom onder, het verwys na

11 persone wat dan beweeg en hy het gevra of daardie persone

12 dan vrylik na Nkaneng toe beweeg het en dit is waarop my

13 antwoord gebaseer was.

14 MR MPOFU: With respect, Brigadier, it

15 doesn’t matter which photo you are dealing with, the issue

16 is that Advocate Budlender spoke to you about the people

17 who are on the footpath to Nkaneng and your answer

18 suggests, which is really the crux of the matter, that

19 there was a group of people called the protes groep who

20 were not to be allowed to go through as opposed to another

21 group of people called the peaceful group who were to be

22 allowed to go through. That’s the gist, it doesn’t matter

23 which picture it is, what nogal, okay?

24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink –

25 MR MPOFU: That - is your evidence that,

Page 204161 or rather do you stick with your evidence there that there

2 was a group dubbed the protest group which was not to be

3 allowed through and there was a group called the peaceful

4 group which was to be allowed through or not?

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As ek dit deur my eie

6 woorde met u kan gaan, presies dit wat u sê, waarna ek

7 verwys het. Ek het ook gesê die foto is dieselfde tyd, so

8 ek het nie gesê dit is ’n ander foto nie, so dit maak nie

9 saak nie.

10 MR MPOFU: Sorry, okay.

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek dink dit is die

12 vreedsame groep wat gehoor gegee het, nie die protest groep

13 nie, want hy het spesifiek gevra watter groep loop daar en

14 toe sê ek vir hom, na mnr Mathunjwa weg is was daar baie

15 mense wat weggeloop het, ek sê wat gehoor gegee het, nie

16 die protes groep wat aangeval, wat nie toegelaat sou gewees

17 het om daardeur te kom nie. Die protes groep is daardie

18 wat in die rooi sirkel is en toe die Nyalas toegemaak is,

19 hulle sou nie toegelaat gewees het dan om daardeur te kom

20 nie.

21 MR MPOFU: Well, there are two things

22 that arrive from that passage. Firstly you say the protest

23 group that was attacked, correct?

24 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die protes groep wat

25 aangeval het, met ander woorde wat die polisie lyn direk



Page 204171 aangeval het.

2 MR MPOFU: No, you didn’t say, aangeval

3 het, you said aangeval is, die protes groep wat aangeval

4 is, the protest group that was attacked.

5 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, nee, ek dink dit

6 is maar net daar ’n mis-quote gewees en almal weet wat ek

7 daarby bedoel het, dit is die protes groep wat van vooraf,

8 wat aangeval het.

9 MR MPOFU: Mr Brigadier, please look, I

10 don’t want us to waste each other’s time. Do you see, I

11 know that what you are saying now, we are saying we heard

12 now, I ask you to read what is written there which you said

13 on the 27th of November. Did you refer to the protest group

14 wat aangeval is or did you not?


16 Voorsitter, dit is net mooi anderste om.

17 MR MPOFU: So we’ll blame the

18 transcribers now?

19 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair, I know these

20 transcriptions get certified, etcetera, but we understand

21 the evidence quite well. There has never been a group of

22 people wat aangeval is.

23 MR MPOFU: Well, how did they –

24 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Semenya, there are two

25 possibilities, there are three possibilities. The first

Page 204181 is, he said “aangeval is” and meant it, and the second is 2 he said, “aangeval is” and it was a slip of the tongue, he 3 meant to say “aangeval het” and the third possibility is he 4 actually said, “aangeval het” and it was wrongly 5 transcribed. So those are the three possibilities. Now –6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die tweede een, mnr 7 die Voorsitter.8 CHAIRPERSON: You say the second one, the 9 second one is, you may well have said “aangeval is” but it

10 was a slip of the tongue, you meant “aangeval het?”11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is –12 CHAIRPERSON: In the context.13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is in die konteks 14 wat ons dit gelees het, ja, dit is duidelik, mnr die 15 Voorsitter.16 CHAIRPERSON: Alright.17 MR MPOFU: Ja, well, fine, I’ll, even if 18 I accept that I’ll argue that that was a Freudian slip, you 19 meant exactly that, that’s how they were attacked and 20 killed by the police to your knowledge, so that was not an 21 innocent slip of the tongue, it was because subliminally 22 you knew that they were attacked and killed, murdered.23 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, nee, ek verskil 24 van u, mnr die Voorsitter, maar dat die transkripsie, die 25 res, alles is op skrif en op rekord, so hulle kan daarna

Page 204191 gaan kyk.

2 MR MPOFU: Okay, in any event that part

3 aside, that part aside, the second leg of that quotation

4 says that you’re saying they should not have been allowed

5 to go through unlike the peaceful group, is that your

6 evidence now or is it the one before lunch, which one is

7 the truth, which one is a lie?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Nee, ek kan nie onthou

9 dat ek enigsins iets anders gesê het voor tee of voor

10 langs, soos u beweer nie. Dit was nog altyd die militante

11 groep wat van vooraf, daardie groep wat aangeval is en dit

12 is waar ons gesê het, maak toe, ry vinniger met die draad

13 en toe hulle aangeval word het ons die opdrag gegee om te

14 gaan disperse, so daar is nie ’n ander weergawe nie.

15 MR MPOFU: No, Sir, please listen to me

16 carefully. I’m not on the “aangeval” thing now, that’s

17 behind us. I’m saying that group, this protest group,

18 according to this passage was not to be allowed to go

19 through, unlike what you said to me earlier and what Mr

20 Semenya challenged me to show, do you remember I said it is

21 in Afrikaans somewhere and I can’t find it, which I’ve now

22 found? What you said before lunch and what you are saying

23 now about whether that group had to be blocked from going

24 to Nkaneng is not the same. I’m asking which one of those

25 two is the truth, were they to be blocked, - rather

Page 204201 stopped, I don’t want to use that word because it caused

2 the confusion, to be prevented from going through or were

3 they not? Those two cannot both be true, one is true and

4 one is false.


6 is nie seker of ek die vraag reg verstaan nie, miskien haak

7 ek vas by die protes groep. As ek dit so kan verduidelik,

8 as hulle, hulle wapens neergesit het en ek dink mnr die

9 Voorsitter het my ook gevra, daar was menigde gevalle op

10 regterkant van hierdie foto waar hulle dan wel na Nkaneng

11 toe kon beweeg het en wat ’n moontlikheid was, dat hulle

12 soontoe kon beweeg het. Hoekom hulle die opdrag gekry het

13 van disperse is omdat daardie groep reguit na die polisie

14 lyn toe beweeg het en sodoende die polisie lyn aangeval het

15 en dit is dan waar die disperse en block opdrag gekom het.

16 MR MPOFU: Well, I put it to you that

17 this version that is here is correct, that you intended and

18 did prevent the people from taking the path to Nkaneng,

19 among other things by using Nyala 4 to close that gap and

20 that action was in pursuance of this intention as opposed

21 to the false evidence that there was a so called incident 2

22 which was watered off by inter alia Nyala 4, but Nyala 4’s

23 action was meant to carry out this intention and it did

24 indeed stop the people from going to Nkaneng and we’ve gone

25 through the rest. Then they went around the kraal, then



Page 204211 you shot them and killed them at the path.

2 [15:39] BRIGADIER CALITZ: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek

3 verstaan nie; is daar 'n vraag? U het 'n stelling gemaak.

4 Wat is die vraag aan my?

5 MR MPOFU: What do you say about that?

6 CHAIRPERSON: Do you agree with the

7 proposition put to you by counsel? That’s the question, I

8 suppose.


10 Voorsitter, daardie groep het die lyn aangeval en ons het

11 wel vir Nyala 4 die opdrag gegee om daar toe te maak en

12 daaroor het ons breedvoerig getuig. Daar was 'n gewone

13 “dispersion” en blok aksie, en die “protester” groep het

14 gekies om om die kraal te kom en weg van Nkaneng af te

15 beweeg, “in fact,” ek het gesê na die substasie toe, wat

16 heeltemal op die suide is, as u sien die rigting wat hulle

17 beweeg, en die foto wys dit nogal mooi. So hulle het

18 heeltemal wegbeweeg van Nkaneng af in die substasie se

19 rigting, weg van Nkaneng af na, as die voetpad dan so

20 belangrik was het ek gesê daar was meer as genoeg spasie

21 aan die regterkant waar hulle wel na Nkaneng toe kon gaan.

22 So dit is waar ek verskil.

23 MR MPOFU: Anyway, we’ll leave that for

24 argument. I just wanted to round off that for the benefit

25 of my learned colleague. Now before that we were busy with

Page 204221 the instruction to engage. You remember there is evidence

2 which was given by I think General Annandale, but for him

3 it was – well, not hearsay, it’s something I think he heard

4 over the radio, but I think you’ve confirmed it where you

5 said something to the effect that the police members should

6 not engage the target unless the target engages them.

7 Remember that?

8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ja, u verwys na my

9 gesprek wat op die –

10 MR MPOFU: Ja.

11 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - video, of die dinges

12 was by die Coin, ja.

13 MR MPOFU: Yes. Now what I’m going to

14 argue, and once again the usual way I want to give you a

15 chance to explain it, is that your explanation of the word

16 “engage” is false and fabricated, among other things,

17 because in that context it would mean an absurd thing, such

18 as do not get involved with the target unless the target

19 gets involved with you. Or even worse; do not spray the

20 target with water until the target sprays you with water,

21 or whatever. I think it only could have meant that you

22 were saying do not shoot the people unless they shoot you,

23 or something like that. In other words, the usage of the

24 word “engage” even in that sentence cannot be strained away

25 from its proper meaning, which means to shoot. Comment?

Page 204231 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Die korrekte woorde

2 daar was “No need for firearms now unless the target engage

3 you. No need to shoot while they are running, unless a

4 target engage you.” So hier het ek pertinent verwys na die

5 vuurwapens en gesê “No need to shoot.” So ek het pertinent

6 daarna verwys, “unless the target engage you.” So tensy

7 hulle afklim en daar is 'n konfrontasie wat dan plaasvind,

8 dan is jy geregtig om – en dit, hier duidelik uit die

9 getuienis, ons wil nie teruggaan nie, weer net met die

10 Pappa Nyalas gepraat. Dit was toe ons die opvolgaksie

11 gehad het by die “riverbed.”

12 MR MPOFU: Yes, okay. Thank you. So the

13 firearms you were referring to were live ammunition,

14 correct?


16 nee, ek het nou net gesê ons het breedvoerig al hieroor

17 getuig. Dit was met die Pappa Nyalas gewees. Dit was

18 nadat ons opgevorm het en vorentoe beweeg het na die droë

19 rivierbedding waar ons hergroepeer het en van daar af

20 vorentoe beweeg het. Hierdie vrae is alreeds op, oor

21 getuig, kan ek dit so stel.

22 MR MPOFU: Brigadier Calitz, when you

23 referred to firearms in the explanation that you were

24 giving, what firearms were you referring to?

25 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit was die voertuie –

Page 204241 ag, die haelgewere van die Pappa Nyalas, want die persone

2 het op gevuur terwyl hulle gehardloop het en die Nyalas het

3 beweeg. Ek het gesê ook dat dit, daardie was nie 'n

4 teregwysing, maar operasionele opdrag, as ek kan my regte

5 woorde onthou waaroor ek getuig het.

6 MR MPOFU: So used in that context you

7 meant do not fire shotguns at the protesters unless they

8 fire shotguns at you?

9 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dis hoekom ek sê die

10 woord “engage” beteken nie skiet nie, tensy hulle betrokke

11 raak. Ek is gevra daaroor en ek het verwys waar ons

12 uitklim en die groepie in 'n kleiner groepie opgesplit en

13 ons sou uitklim en daardie persone dan fisies naderbeweeg

14 en dan betrokke raak in daardie sin van die woord. Dit is

15 waar hulle dan die haelgewere kan gebruik vir uiteendryf

16 aksie.

17 CHAIRPERSON: Why is the word “engage” in

18 that context confined to “haelgewere,” shotguns? If the

19 strikers were engaging a member of the POP for example by

20 advancing on him, a particular striker advancing on a

21 particular POP member with raised panga or assegai or

22 something like that, and it was part of an attack, then

23 surely you didn’t mean that the POP person must only shoot

24 back with his shotgun? POP members have pistols, I

25 understand, and one in eight of them I think had a rifle.



Page 204251 We know Warrant Officer Kuhn for example had a rifle. So

2 if the POP member who was being engaged, with whom the

3 striker was engaging in the manner I’ve described had a

4 pistol, then surely what you said would have been conveyed

5 and there would have been nothing wrong with it in those

6 circumstances; shoot him with a pistol. I mean surely, you

7 know, experience had shown already, had it not, that these

8 rubber bullets weren’t terribly effective in repelling the

9 strikers, were they, for various reasons. So isn’t what

10 you said capable of meaning if a striker engages you, i.e.

11 comes and tries to attack you with a panga, shoot him with

12 your pistol? Or is that an incorrect interpretation of

13 what you said?


15 sal sê nee, dit is nie korrek nie. Wat ek hier wel van

16 gepraat het was terwyl die Nyala voertuie vorentoe beweeg

17 het, die persone wat dan met die haelgewere uit die Nyalas

18 uit geskiet het was die sin, u sien die tweede sin, “No

19 need to shoot while they are running, unless target engages

20 you.” So ons het pertinent met die Pappa voertuie gepraat,

21 met die uiteendryf groep, wat dan so op die mense - sodat

22 hulle moet in kleiner groepies opgebreek word en dan eers

23 sou die arrestasie en die ontwapening plaasvind.

24 CHAIRPERSON: Why would you shoot if they

25 were running?


2 daardie vraag –

3 CHAIRPERSON: Why would the person to

4 whom you were speaking shoot a striker if the striker was

5 running? I don’t understand that, I’m sorry.

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: As mnr die Voorsitter

7 onthou, daardie vraag, ons het dit bespreek. Ek dink die

8 vraag het van u af gekom of van Kommissaris af, wat is

9 gesien op daardie stadium. Ek het gepraat van ek het hulle

10 net tereggewys want dit was 'n operasionele opdrag, en toe

11 het, ek dink die Kommissaris of uself vir my gevra het ek

12 wel iemand gesien wat op daardie stadium, en ek het gesê

13 ja, toe die Nyalas vorentoe beweeg, ek dink ek het daaroor

14 getuig, en dit is hoekom ek die opdrag gegee het. Ek praat

15 nou onder korreksie, my presiese woorde, maar ek kan dit

16 gaan kry in die transkripsie, mnr die Voorsitter. So dit

17 was spesifiek op dit gemik en niks op die, iets anderste

18 nie.

19 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: My recollection of

20 your evidence –

21 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair –

22 COMMISSIONER HEMRAJ: Sorry, Mr Semenya,

23 you go ahead. My recollection of your evidence was that

24 when you gave that order not to shoot it was to the members

25 inside the Nyala not to shoot at the protesters outside

Page 204271 with rubber. Is that correct?

2 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Dit is korrek gewees,

3 Kommissaris.

4 MR SEMENYA SC: The point, Chair, we were

5 going to make is these utterances are said after the

6 formation at the dry riverbed. It could never have had any

7 reference as to what TRT has done minutes before, or

8 seconds before.

9 MR MPOFU: No, Chairperson, the question

10 is about the use of the word “engage” to mean kill.

11 Whether that happened 20 years later doesn’t matter. The

12 point I’m making is that in this context, the fact that it

13 happened to be scene 2 or scene this or scene that is

14 irrelevant for the purposes of what I’m saying now. I’m

15 saying in that particular exchange the word “engage” must

16 have been referring to live ammunition –

17 CHAIRPERSON: No, I understood that you

18 were busy with word usage.

19 MR MPOFU: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON: Anyway, the witness has

21 given an answer. The passage in question was put to him.

22 MR MPOFU: Yes.

23 CHAIRPERSON: He explained what he meant,

24 and I think –

25 MR MPOFU: Can’t take it further, yes.

Page 204281 CHAIRPERSON: - what’s left is a matter 2 for argument. You don’t have to –3 MR MPOFU: Indeed. Indeed.4 CHAIRPERSON: - cross-examine him on it 5 further.6 MR MPOFU: Indeed. Indeed, Chairperson. 7 Brigadier, well, I think as you may have - just to short-8 circuit this whole thing – as you may have gathered, I’m 9 going to argue that your various explanations on the usage

10 of the word “engage” are just a fabrication and a pack of 11 lies and should not be believed.12 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpofu, do me a favour; 13 don’t use the word “pack of lies.” It’s not necessary for 14 counsel to do that. When Mr Ngalwana was here I 15 reprimanded him for using the word. Good counsel when 16 they’re cross-examining witnesses, even if they’re 17 attacking their credibility, are able to avoid using that 18 word. It introduces an unpleasant –19 MR MPOFU: Yes.20 CHAIRPERSON: Right.21 MR MPOFU: Sorry.22 CHAIRPERSON: I don’t like it. So 23 please –24 MR MPOFU: Yes. No, no, one day –25 CHAIRPERSON: Please avoid it.



Page 204291 MR MPOFU: Yes. One day I’ll be good

2 counsel. Let’s use the one –

3 CHAIRPERSON: You can be one immediately,

4 Mr Mpofu.

5 MR MPOFU: Yes, I intend to do that right

6 now. So I’m going to suggest that those explanations of

7 yours on the word “engage” are ridiculous, or “belaglik.”


9 die teengevoel sal maar wederkerig wees. Dit is enige

10 persoon wat die lees in die konteks wat dit hier gesê is en

11 die presiese woorde soos wat dit gesê is, sal sien wat ek

12 daarby bedoel het. Dit is vir my duidelik, en die lede wat

13 gereageer het op wat ek gesê het, het ook gereageer soos

14 wat ek dit bedoel het. So ek kan nie meer sê as net ek

15 verskil van u nie.

16 MR MPOFU: Yes, but listen to this

17 carefully. The thrust of my argument is not going to be so

18 much the semantic differences between engage and this,

19 that, and the other. The thrust of my argument will be

20 that to your knowledge, to your knowledge the word “engage”

21 does not exclude the use of live ammunition, and the reason

22 why you are having this, that you are evading that issue is

23 exactly because you know that you used that word and you

24 know the consequences and you are just running away from

25 those consequences. That’s the thrust of what I’ll say.


2 nee, glad nie. Ek was die operasionele bevelvoerder op die

3 dag. Die presiese woorde wat ek gesê het en my bedoeling

4 daarvan en die gevolge daarvan en die optrede van my lede,

5 dit is wat ek gekoördineer het en dit was my opdragte

6 gewees, en ek hardloop weg van niks af nie. Ek het dit

7 duidelik gestel hoekom ek dit gesê het en ek is 'n persoon

8 wat nie, soos u stel, weghardloop van iets af nie. Ek is

9 nie bang daarvoor nie. Dit was my woorde. Dit is op

10 rekord en ek getuig daaroor, en ek is onder eed hier, so ek

11 vertel die waarheid presies soos wat ek dit op daardie dag

12 bedoel het en soos wat dit gesê is op daardie dag. Ek

13 verstaan van u kant af wat u die beweringe maak, u moet dit

14 doen. Dit is, maar ek verskil van u.

15 MR MPOFU: And finally on that point I

16 will argue that you are running away from the clear meaning

17 of the word “engage” exactly because you know that it’s

18 incompatible with the police version of self-defence and

19 it’s only incompatible with someone having given a command

20 which would make it premeditated murder.

21 CHAIRPERSON: [Microphone off, inaudible]

22 was only compatible with someone having given a command,

23 etcetera.

24 MR MPOFU: Yes.

25 CHAIRPERSON: You used the

Page 204311 word “incompatible” instead of “compatible.”

2 MR MPOFU: Thank you. Yes, yes. Yes, I

3 was saying the first one –

4 CHAIRPERSON: You see, these slips of the

5 tongue do happen sometimes.

6 MR MPOFU: Yes, it does, Chairperson.

7 Ja, especially when it comes to murder. So what I’m saying

8 is you, that the explanation of “engage” that you want to

9 sell here - or rather to your knowledge you know that if an

10 instruction was given, which I’m going to argue it was,

11 then that would be incompatible with self-defence, which in

12 normal circumstances is a spontaneous reaction, and that if

13 the instruction to engage, which is to shoot, was given,

14 that is more compatible with premeditated murder and that

15 is why you are running away from the obvious meaning of

16 that word which we have demonstrated by so many examples

17 that I’ve lost count myself.

18 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ekskuus, mnr die

19 Voorsitter, ek het net gesien u was besig. Nee, mnr die

20 Voorsitter, ek kan maar net weer sê ek verskil van u gegewe

21 die redes wat ons nou hoeveel keer al gegee het. Sover my

22 mening strek was daar geen opdrag gegee om te skiet nie -

23 ek praat nou van die TRT lede. Tot op huidiglik weet ek

24 van geen bevelvoerder wat ek iewers in 'n verklaring gesien

25 het en gesê het ek het opdrag gegee nie. Ek weet daar is,

Page 204321 uit die Pappa Nyalas uit is daar een of twee persone wat

2 gesê het hy het opdrag gegee om te skiet toe hulle iemand

3 sien wat op die polisie geskiet het. Dit weet ek van 'n

4 opdrag, maar verder as daardie opdragte weet ek van geen

5 ander opdrag op hierdie stadium. Tot op hede van vandag -

6 ons is my 21ste dag vandag in getuienis – weet ek glad nie

7 van enige so iets wat nog voor die Kommissie gelê is nie,

8 en dat ek hardloop beslis weereens nie weg, wat u weer

9 beweer nie. My opdragte is gegee en my opdragte is

10 uitgevoer in die sin wat ek dit wel gegee het. En dan

11 miskien om te sê dat die opdrag teenoor TRT, dit is volgens

12 my waar ek was in my posisie, was dit vir my onmoontlik om

13 te sien wat agter aangaan. So selfs in daardie geval – ek

14 wil nie weer die woord “belaglik” gebruik nie want ek

15 probeer om nie persoonlik te wees nie, maar dit is feitlik

16 onmoontlik om vir iemand 'n opdrag te gee terwyl jy nie

17 eers kan sien wat daar aangaan nie.

18 MR SEMENYA SC: Chair, can we request,

19 through you, that if parts of these cross-examinations are

20 reported in the media it must be made plain this is not

21 evidence; it’s just Mr Mpofu’s intention to make arguments

22 about premeditated murders, for which we have no evidence

23 as yet.

24 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think that –

25 MR MPOFU: Well, Chairperson, can I say



Page 204331 something about this first?2 CHAIRPERSON: Of course you can say 3 something.4 MR MPOFU: Yes. Well, Chairperson, I 5 think that what Mr Semenya is doing now is irregular and 6 uncalled for. I have put to a witness propositions based 7 on – he invited me earlier to sustain my proposition when I 8 was introducing the topic that I was going to go onto a 9 course which would show that this witness gave the

10 instruction. Since that invitation was given I’ve been 11 busy with nothing else but to accept it, and I am now at a 12 point at which I should think I’m entitled – at that point 13 maybe I was not because I was just putting the topic, but 14 now, having canvassed this very carefully with all this 15 material, I must be entitled to put to the witness firstly 16 that he cannot be believed on the word “engage,” but I’m 17 going further and saying that there’s a motive - it’s not 18 just a matter of English or whatever - that the motive for 19 that is because he knows exactly that if the instruction 20 was given, as I’m suggesting, then it’s incompatible with 21 self-defence, and if it’s incompatible with self-defence, 22 that can only mean murder. So I don’t think Mr Semenya 23 should be, you know, gratuitously telling the media how to 24 report it. I’m saying, and I will say it again, the reason 25 for this witness to lie about the word “engage” is because

Page 204341 he knows the implications are inimical to the self-defence

2 theory, and if the self-defence theory is done away with,

3 we are left with premeditated murder, and I think anyone

4 else can report it as they like. That’s the fact, that’s

5 what it is. That’s what I’m putting to the witness and I’m

6 entitled to it without the commentary from my learned

7 colleague.

8 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I don’t think that it

9 could be really described as commentary. The press have

10 maintained a high standard in regard to reporting the

11 proceedings, particularly those I think who are present

12 with us today, if I may say that. I’m sure that when they

13 report today’s hearing, if they report the cross-

14 examination they will make clear that the cross-examination

15 was based upon an inference, a contention that the language

16 used by the witness, which included the word “engage,” had

17 a particular meaning.

18 [15:59] The witness didn’t agree with that meaning, and

19 at the end of the day Mr Mpofu will argue that the evidence

20 of the witness on this point is not correct, and the word

21 “engage” means what he says it means, but equally there

22 will be contention from the other side that that word

23 doesn’t mean what Mr Mpofu says it means and that the

24 inference can’t be drawn. That’s a matter for us to decide

25 at the end of the day but there has been a full and

Page 204351 vigorous cross-examination of the witness on the point.

2 The case of the injured and arrested persons has been put

3 very forcibly to him but it rests very largely on the

4 meaning of this word “engage” which has been the subject of

5 quite vigorous coverage and debate this afternoon and for

6 all we know there may be further evidence on the meaning of

7 the word in later proceedings and of course we also will

8 have Colonel Vermaak who will testify as to what he heard

9 and what exactly the words were that he heard, but I think

10 that covers the situation.

11 MR MPOFU: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON: I don’t think Mr Semenya

13 was trying to stifle the cross-examination, he was merely

14 concerned that there might be misapprehension created by

15 reporting that this is possibly a little bit too sparse

16 which can lay the wrong impression, but I think we can be

17 confident that the representatives of the media here will

18 handle the matter properly.

19 MR MPOFU: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON: This seems a suitable stage

21 to take the adjournment, Mr Mpofu?

22 MR MPOFU: Yes, Chairperson, except, if

23 I’m just allowed to say that if that is what is going to

24 happen then every time a person is cross-examined at the

25 end of it the media must be reminded that those are just

Page 204361 contentions from Mr Semenya, myself, Mr Chaskalson, Mr

2 Budlender, Mr whoever. I think this is completely uncalled

3 for, why must it only happen when we talk about

4 premeditated murder when the shoe is pinching?

5 CHAIRPERSON: Well, it is a matter of

6 course of judgment on my part whether I think there is a

7 danger of a wrong impression being created. It is

8 certainly not something that will be allowed except by way

9 of exception. I don’t think we need to take the matter any

10 further –


12 CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn until nine

13 o’clock on Thursday, this Chamber is required by the

14 municipality tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean that a lot of

15 work won’t be done tomorrow by all those connected to the

16 Commission who is –

17 MR MPOFU: Chair, -

18 CHAIRPERSON: - preparing for Thursday

19 and also reviewing some of the evidence led so far.

20 MR MPOFU: Thanks, Chairperson.

21 CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brigadier?

22 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Sorry, if I just may

23 ask a question, we had a discussion, I just want to know on

24 Thursday, Mr Mpofu, so that I can bring the next part –

25 MR MPOFU: Yes, you must bring, yes, yes,



Page 204371 thanks Mr Brigadier, yes, you can bring both my material

2 and the AMCU one because at some stage they will take over.

3 BRIGADIER CALITZ: So we’ll finish on

4 Thursday so that I can –

5 MR MPOFU: I don’t know –

6 BRIGADIER CALITZ: - just bring along

7 the, - no, no, if we continue it is fine, they still have

8 Friday, I just wanted to know, because they must prepare

9 for me the files for –

10 CHAIRPERSON: Ja, there is a suggestion

11 that Mr Mpofu may finish by teatime on Thursday, I’m not

12 sure whether that’s morning tea or afternoon tea –

13 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Or next week –

14 CHAIRPERSON: Is there any suggestion

15 that he will finish by teatime on Thursday and then Mr Gotz

16 who is appearing for AMCU, I think it is, will then cross-

17 examine you further and you’ve already received a bundle I

18 think of the materials on which he is going to rely and

19 thereafter –

20 BRIGADIER CALITZ: He will give it

21 through my legal team, so I will get it from them.

22 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes, and thereafter Mr

23 Gumbi who is appearing for Lieutenant Baloyi is going to

24 cross-examine you also, I’m not sure if you got his

25 materials yet, I don’t know if there are any materials, but

Page 204381 he tells me the cross-examination is not likely to be more 2 than a quarter of an hour to half an hour, but if there are 3 materials on which he is going to rely I’m sure he will 4 give them to the SAPS legal team before, or sometime 5 tomorrow I hope, so that you’ll have an opportunity of 6 studying it, but it is only a very short cross-examination 7 he tells me.8 BRIGADIER CALITZ: It is no problem, Mr 9 Chair.

10 MR MPOFU: Yes, Chairperson, I just 11 wanted to make my position clear, as to the question 12 whether it is morning tea or afternoon tea, if we were in 13 America I’m taking the fifth amendment, thank you, Chair.14 CHAIRPERSON: On that hopeful note we 15 will adjourn until nine o’clock on Thursday.16 [COMMISSION ADJOURNED]17 .18 .19 .20 .21 .22 .23 .24 .25 .



Page 1

Aaan 20255:1 20267:3

20267:10 20272:1620273:1 20276:2120277:1,8,1020278:12 20281:2320283:22 20285:920291:12,1520312:17,2220314:23,2420316:10,1120323:20 20326:2320341:10,23 20342:120343:2 20344:2320349:1,8 20350:1220365:21 20367:1620382:11 20389:1320409:10 20410:2120415:6 20421:4,21

aanbeveling 20406:2,3aanbeweeg 20325:2aanbied 20396:24aandag 20341:25aangaan 20297:7

20324:24 20394:620432:13,17

aangedui 20273:9,9aangehaal 20380:20aangekla 20345:8aangeval 20414:8

20416:16,25 20417:120417:2,3,3,8,14,2220418:1,2,3,4,9,1020419:11,13,1620420:14 20421:10

aanneem 20303:16,17aanspreek 20343:5aantal 20330:14aantree 20395:24aanvaar 20413:8aanval 20248:24

20310:17 20311:220332:10

aard 20345:9aarde 20366:22able 20263:14 20295:7

20324:15 20327:1520328:18,18 20346:120354:18 20428:17

absence 20372:22absurd 20422:17accelerated 20323:4accept 20244:22

20249:10 20252:2020279:4 20282:1420289:3 20317:2120335:23 20349:1520351:19 20367:1120370:3 20380:720387:2 20397:11,2520398:1 20409:120412:4 20413:4,620414:14 20418:1820433:11

acceptable 20275:3

acceptance 20358:9accepted 20268:16accepting 20332:3,4accepts 20322:23access 20286:25

20324:15accessible 20287:10,17

20287:17accompanied 20325:24accord 20392:1accustomed 20317:10achieved 20334:2act 20251:6 20338:11

20354:9 20355:1920356:7 20359:2520363:12 20365:5

acted 20249:1220251:17 20338:1420340:21 20341:13

acting 20258:1020354:13

action 20249:3 20265:920265:11,1920301:11,1120303:11 20323:920331:1 20337:2420355:5 20357:2320366:13 20371:2220371:22 20374:1520379:21,2220381:24 20382:220420:20,23

actions 20357:23activities 20293:9

20312:3actual 20307:10

20365:2address 20286:25

20320:2 20336:22,2520341:1

addressed 20379:2addressing 20336:18

20371:4adhered 20253:21adjacent 20265:21

20354:15adjourn 20436:12

20438:15ADJOURNED

20438:16adjournment 20309:13

20372:1 20406:2020435:21

ADJOURNS 20309:1420372:9 20406:25

admitted 20338:1620397:9

ADRIAAN 20241:4Adriao 20283:15

20285:14Adv 20249:22

20331:23 20385:11advance 20292:14,15

20292:17,19 20295:220357:25

advanced 20249:20

20294:21 20304:2020404:23

advancing 20294:820424:20,20

advantage 20245:21advies 20269:7advisedly 20373:20advocate 20293:16

20339:14 20415:16advokaat 20241:19

20248:15 20337:2120339:10 20341:520344:1 20348:1220365:19

af 20244:17 20256:620257:20 20269:2320270:11,11 20271:520273:10,10,13,1720275:14 20276:1120282:11,1220291:13 20305:620310:20 20324:2120334:7,22 20342:2120365:15,16 20375:420375:15,16,1920421:14,18,1920423:19 20426:8,820430:6,8,13

afgeblok 20266:21afgesny 20274:20

20276:5afgespeel 20259:1afgetrek 20350:19afhangende 20274:17afklim 20423:7afkom 20415:10aflees 20347:14afleiding 20285:6

20300:6,8 20301:22Africa 20242:14

20252:5African 20400:19Afrikaans 20335:25

20368:10 20374:1120419:21

afspeel 20375:1720381:20

afstand 20299:5,17afternoon 20435:5

20437:12 20438:12ag 20259:2 20301:18

20320:1 20424:1aggressive 20362:11ago 20306:4 20335:17

20400:14agree 20252:4

20254:11 20287:1320295:20 20299:2120308:2 20323:12,1420331:4 20351:2220354:23 20355:620365:11 20369:1620373:13 20388:1520391:5 20408:220412:25 20421:620434:18

agreed 20243:2420272:7

agreeing 20319:9agt 20327:24agter 20266:9 20272:23

20272:25 20273:1,1920281:23 20283:2020283:20 20312:2320313:10 20314:2220315:15,1520366:23 20399:1420432:13

agterkant 20281:2320283:22

agterste 20300:8agtertoe 20277:10ahead 20368:10,14

20426:23air 20352:16 20354:2

20363:5aksie 20247:6 20269:24

20305:15 20310:2020376:16 20377:1720421:13 20424:16

aksies 20378:2020381:12

al 20246:23,24 20247:820247:21 20249:420250:13 20274:2520275:16 20305:2120312:21,21 20327:620339:7 20342:1320344:4 20350:11,1420350:16 20355:820366:21 20371:2220377:17,1820381:15 20387:1120391:18 20399:1520405:7 20406:420423:16 20431:21

albei 20277:8,10algemeen 20257:18,19

20258:22algemene 20256:16

20258:21alhoewel 20263:21

20266:18alia 20420:22alle 20274:15 20346:21

20349:10,10allegasies 20392:14allegation 20352:16

20357:9,17 20358:14allegations 20259:4,11

20259:24 20261:2120261:24,25 20262:120262:2 20340:1720341:2

alleged 20262:920320:4 20360:10

alles 20342:1820348:20,21,21,2220366:16 20391:1520418:25

allowed 20268:17,2320269:14 20279:19

20281:3 20283:4,1120284:11 20288:2,320326:15,17 20331:520414:13 20415:2020415:22 20416:3,420419:4,18 20435:2320436:8

almal 20313:2320316:7 20330:5,1720343:4 20374:12,1320375:3 20417:6

alreeds 20341:2120368:7 20423:20

alright 20246:1620249:7 20263:2,5,720273:22 20281:1020297:9 20302:1,2,1520317:8 20333:1520336:10 20338:1,1320339:20 20342:1020347:6,17 20351:220352:2 20355:420373:7,11 20374:120378:3 20406:1920418:16

Alternatively 20301:2altwee 20269:10altyd 20247:5 20248:23

20249:3 20275:1120289:8,13 20314:2120314:22 20319:120348:19 20419:10

ambit 20259:20ambush 20396:10AMCU 20437:2,16amendment 20438:13America 20438:13ammunition 20364:3

20373:23 20375:2520376:3,3,2320378:22 20379:520385:15,17 20386:220386:8,22,2520389:7 20395:6,9,1120395:18 20399:2,620403:7,10 20423:1320427:16 20429:21

amount 20260:16amper 20281:24

20290:9 20350:1420365:17

ander 20244:220246:21 20257:2220266:10,25 20267:320267:14 20272:1320273:9 20274:2020289:2 20296:1120305:1 20311:1820314:2 20323:2120334:22 20341:9,1420341:18,24 20342:420365:24 20367:120368:8 20374:1120375:2 20377:1720378:21 20380:2320381:8,10 20396:1



Page 2

20397:1,2 20399:2220416:8,25 20419:1420432:5

anders 20341:2520344:25 20419:9

anderste 20349:620394:5 20417:1620426:17

anderster 20366:6Annandale 20376:22

20377:2,8 20378:1,1920379:4 20380:1320422:2

announced 20337:17answer 20250:20

20251:23 20254:720256:12 20259:1620259:21 20260:8,1920260:22 20261:5,920261:24 20292:220299:19 20310:2220313:12 20321:3,1820329:12 20340:1120340:13,13 20348:320348:4 20356:14,1820357:1,18,1920361:2 20365:1120368:22,24 20369:220369:2 20380:1220402:9 20406:820412:9 20414:3,720415:17 20427:21

answered 20258:1620264:1 20340:420368:20

answering 20319:9,11answers 20264:2,2

20346:1anticipate 20318:21anticipated 20312:11

20326:19 20329:16anticipation 20329:4antwoord 20243:15

20252:17 20254:1520255:25 20275:1220275:16 20279:2520286:21 20288:2420322:11 20332:2020341:6 20344:5,2120345:10 20347:1420348:14 20366:620380:24 20394:420415:13

anybody 20371:8anymore 20316:19anyway 20250:3

20294:12 20335:2120340:10 20365:920382:23 20413:1920421:23 20427:20

apart 20256:2020291:19 20292:620310:11 20343:1720386:5,20

aparte 20248:1620249:6 20322:12

20331:19apologise 20280:23appear 20412:24

20413:5appeared 20354:5

20358:19 20363:920367:9

appearing 20437:16,23appears 20362:3

20386:21 20396:520400:1

appellation 20241:15applies 20257:25apply 20253:20

20402:13appreciate 20407:21apprehend 20396:11approach 20253:17

20270:15approached 20249:25

20283:10 20333:19approaching 20378:12appropriate 20241:15approximately

20362:14area 20263:9,17

20264:4,10,18,18,2120264:25 20265:9,1020265:11,11,13,15,1520265:17,19,23,2520266:14,18 20267:620267:8,21,2120268:1,9,11,18,1920268:22,22,2420269:14,17,20,2020270:2,5,13,1420271:1,17 20272:1,820272:11,21,22,2520273:5,8,13 20274:120274:1,11,23,2420275:11,19,2020281:1,13 20282:9,920290:11 20292:1620304:1,20,2120311:14,25 20322:6

areas 20271:4argue 20273:23

20287:21 20308:2120308:21 20315:1820336:12 20349:2320357:21 20360:920391:25 20418:1820422:14 20428:920430:16 20431:1020434:19

argued 20246:7argument 20249:8,10

20343:15 20344:1820345:14 20346:220350:8 20357:2520361:2 20421:2420428:2 20429:17,19

arguments 20432:21arm 20346:1 20350:7

20406:12,23 20407:8armed 20325:24

armoured 20325:16arms 20251:9army 20243:3aroused 20361:22arrangement 20264:5

20264:7 20267:2520293:2

arrest 20262:9 20324:620371:22 20379:21

arrestasie 20247:120312:20 20425:23

arrestasies 20303:2020305:9 20325:920328:13,23,2520377:22

arrested 20259:1120260:2 20316:2320328:19 20388:220435:2

arresters 20327:14arrests 20305:13

20323:25 20324:1,1220327:12,1520377:18

arrive 20416:22arrived 20318:2arrow 20284:2 20323:3

20395:1ascertain 20279:14

20311:7asem 20286:22aside 20379:5,6,14

20392:18 20419:3,3asked 20263:12,16

20275:7 20285:2120309:23 20310:220319:10 20380:6,920382:25 20383:720403:14 20406:16

asking 20270:6,20,2120275:3 20287:620299:20 20313:320329:1 20347:420356:13,2520371:10 20401:3,1220414:18 20419:24

asleep 20307:20asof 20285:11asook 20267:2

20269:10 20271:2020286:23 20291:1020303:21 20406:5

aspect 20258:2,2assault 20261:1,1,2,4

20261:11,16 20395:520395:15 20396:24

assaulted 20259:5,12assaulters 20260:17assaults 20259:23,24

20260:6,11,15asseblief 20339:11

20410:11assegai 20424:21assemble 20403:6assembling 20403:19assist 20264:3

20278:14 20305:1220309:5 20325:920353:13 20358:1020401:12

assistance 20302:1020401:13,1520414:21

assume 20253:2120286:10 20288:320303:9,10 20318:1620353:5

assumed 20295:520323:7 20373:8

assuming 20305:2320328:4,15,15

assumption 20261:820319:10,11,14

assure 20323:2420339:22 20411:22

attack 20248:5,10,1320250:17 20251:620265:23 20310:320316:14 20319:1320321:14 20325:1520338:9,23 20361:120362:18,2420390:12 20424:2220425:11

attacked 20326:220354:1 20356:1020363:4,4 20414:1320416:23 20417:420418:19,22

attackers 20354:13attacking 20316:24

20360:24 20428:17attacks 20354:18attains 20241:16attempt 20345:14,16

20394:8,9attempted 20378:13attend 20375:11attended 20265:8attention 20312:1

20401:9 20402:1attorney 20366:3attract 20405:4attraction 20333:7,7audible 20286:16August 20354:7avoid 20428:17,25avoiding 20377:12aware 20259:4,24

20261:11,20,2420372:17

BB 20329:24 20402:11back 20262:18 20263:7

20282:9 20283:220286:19 20289:1720323:24 20328:1720334:14,1520335:15,2520353:18,20 20363:320372:3 20373:11

20382:16 20406:2020407:19,21 20408:420424:24

backs 20301:11bad 20359:13baie 20241:18

20258:14 20288:820302:25 20319:320328:23 20330:4,6,820330:9,16 20342:2220344:21,2220348:15 20365:2120388:13 20406:120416:14

Ballisties 20342:19Baloyi 20372:23

20373:1,6,9 20382:2420383:20 20385:1120437:23

bang 20430:9barbed 20242:2

20244:13 20245:6,1720247:11 20248:1820249:18,25 20267:120281:2 20293:2220294:3,3,5,6,8,2120295:18 20304:2,21

barrier 20294:5,7,9,2220294:22 20304:2,6,620306:11

based 20357:1020364:22 20394:920405:18 20433:620434:15

basic 20400:2020404:12,13,16,18,2020404:20,21,22

basically 20246:1320270:20 20282:920345:20

basis 20253:18 20329:520352:9,10 20356:1120357:1,8,12 20358:220358:14,21 20360:520360:9 20380:13

baton 20395:8bear 20262:23 20402:6bearing 20262:25

20263:4,6Beaten 20261:22,23beatings 20261:12

20262:9bedoel 20292:19

20339:9 20349:620377:4,15,22,2220380:3 20387:1220388:18 20396:2520399:10 20405:920417:7 20429:12,1420430:12

bedoeling 20285:520388:6,18,2020430:3

began 20280:24beginning 20321:11

20353:18 20414:6



Page 3

begun 20307:11behalwe 20395:7behave 20252:7,8

20255:3behaviour 20252:14beheerde 20269:4

20270:22 20290:11beide 20277:2bekend 20344:23belabour 20247:24belaglik 20350:25

20351:3,4,8 20352:220352:3 20394:520429:7 20432:14

belangrik 20421:20belangrike 20254:17believe 20339:21believed 20251:14,20

20293:8 20393:2420428:11 20433:16

believes 20251:5,10,17believing 20251:16benader 20327:2benefit 20343:4

20384:2 20421:24beperk 20324:21beperkinge 20270:24beperkte 20273:2beplanning 20244:18

20244:19 20310:2120315:12

berigte 20342:12besig 20273:10

20299:15 20301:2020301:21 20324:1820341:19 20431:19

beskerm 20252:18beskerming 20266:16beskikking 20246:20beskou 20333:6beskryf 20343:1,1beskuldig 20345:7beslis 20334:25

20369:4 20432:8besluit 20316:11

20319:6 20321:120334:20

bespreek 20246:2220258:22 20291:1520341:22 20342:120426:7

besprekings 20250:13best 20244:15 20407:11beteken 20285:13

20315:14 20371:1920378:22 20402:2220424:10

beter 20274:14betrap 20288:11betrokke 20250:9

20348:19 20350:1920350:23 20374:1220374:13 20375:2,4,620375:13 20376:1220396:20 20399:1720424:10,14

better 20251:2320254:10 20262:2020262:24 20282:1620365:7 20406:14

betwis 20378:18bevel 20366:23bevele 20289:12bevelvoerder 20291:9

20292:9 20299:1520300:5 20342:2320345:4 20348:18,2220430:2 20431:24

bevelvoerders20291:16 20366:1920375:13 20377:2320378:20,2420379:20,23,2520380:23 20382:7

bevestig 20290:520331:21

beweeg 20247:820256:24 20257:2120267:4,6 20269:9,1620270:12 20271:5,1920271:22 20272:1420272:15 20273:1120273:16,1920274:18,24,2420275:15 20276:1120276:11 20277:220278:7 20282:1120286:6 20287:420290:8,11 20291:1320300:10 20301:1820301:24 20310:1820312:21 20319:6,2420320:19 20323:1820323:19,21,2220326:24 20333:420366:12,2120367:18,19,1920368:7 20375:420396:1 20397:1,1320399:20,2220415:11,1220420:11,12,1420421:15,1720423:18,20 20424:320425:16 20426:13

beweer 20342:520348:17 20419:1020432:9

beweging 20269:1120271:4,6 20302:24

beweringe 20336:920345:9 20430:13

bewus 20261:1520296:12

bewys 20255:8 20406:2bewyse 20277:7

20369:19bewysstuk 20384:14bewysstukke 20305:21beyond 20283:9

20294:8,21,21bietjie 20278:12

20321:7 20347:14big 20337:23 20413:17binne 20266:16

20344:23 20378:25binnekant 20266:12bit 20259:7 20261:20

20362:5 20363:220435:15

black 20254:2020283:2

bladsy 20390:420414:25 20415:2

blame 20417:17block 20332:6,13

20367:20,2520368:14,18,1820369:1 20371:2220374:14 20379:2120391:17 20408:720420:15

blocked 20288:120419:23,25

Bloemfontein 20244:7blok 20289:13

20302:24 20332:1020365:24 20366:1320367:1 20390:1920421:13

bloot 20243:14blou 20298:14blue 20298:21,25

20299:2 20402:14,1920402:21,2520403:18

bly 20261:16 20273:1820275:11,1320283:20 20286:2120311:14 20314:2220320:21 20339:1120341:12 20342:2420344:21 20379:24

bo 20285:9 20387:16board 20337:18,24

20394:10bodies 20254:13

20255:4,11,1520256:19 20257:620258:1,6,18

body 20255:22 20256:320256:24 20257:1220258:6,10

bomb 20248:9bombs 20247:17

20248:1,4,11boodskap 20291:16border 20242:4,14,14

20243:8Botes 20385:1

20388:16,2020389:14 20398:1620398:22

Botes’s 20389:1,4Botswana 20242:10,14bottom 20295:3

20323:3 20330:2420412:21,22

bound 20405:17boundaries 20270:3boundary 20284:20

20335:19break 20272:6

20406:14breedvoerig 20421:12

20423:16breek 20328:22breë 20256:16brief 20291:2 20299:16briefed 20297:2briefing 20265:7

20296:19 20302:2020303:10 20305:25

bring 20436:24,2520437:1,6

broad 20356:8broadcast 20291:20

20292:5broader 20254:10brought 20258:17Budlender 20365:20

20413:23,2420414:24 20415:1620436:2

bullet 20308:1120378:12

bullets 20376:120425:8

bundle 20383:1720394:20 20437:17

busy 20241:2520262:14 20282:2320295:1 20302:11,1220314:6 20331:1420356:20,2320421:25 20427:1820433:11

byeen 20267:13bygekom 20345:2bymekaar 20281:24

20282:7 20283:15,1720303:1 20305:21

bystaan 20303:2bystand 20267:8byvoeg 20319:22byvoorbeeld 20269:6

CCalitz’s 20354:12call 20254:8 20286:11

20291:4 20292:15,2020303:18 20304:2020324:14 20335:1920339:3 20357:1720390:9,15 20391:520391:14 20409:1

called 20250:2520265:13 20270:220281:13 20318:220324:5 20364:920387:22 20391:720408:7 20415:19,2120416:3 20420:21

calling 20390:8,10

20391:17calls 20404:12camera 20282:25,25

20283:1candidates 20324:6canisters 20362:23cannon 20392:22cannons 20387:21

20390:10 20391:7,18canon 20362:22

20363:1Canter 20281:22Canters 20260:2

20388:2canvas 20352:24,25canvassed 20433:14can’t 20252:24 20275:2

20307:25 20352:2420353:14 20358:1020373:4 20377:1020380:14 20401:820403:16 20419:2120427:25 20434:24

capability 20265:22capable 20396:7,13

20425:10car 20362:13careful 20401:9carefully 20419:16

20429:17 20433:14carry 20251:25

20357:2,3,1420359:14 20373:520420:23

carrying 20253:2220282:25 20320:1320326:16 20329:23

cars 20362:7,9,21cartages 20342:10,12

20342:15 20347:6,1120347:18

cartridges 20347:2220348:7 20349:20

case 20250:15,1820260:14 20265:2220300:25 20301:320305:8 20308:120316:13,22 20318:820319:14 20321:1120321:11,16 20373:420400:14 20435:2

cause 20287:1620363:19

caused 20365:320420:1

causing 20295:13central 20265:10

20266:3certain 20252:6

20253:20 20259:1120312:5 20322:17

certainly 20314:1820396:6 20436:8

certified 20417:20Chair 20250:15

20251:21 20272:3



Page 4

20336:21 20337:2,620339:16 20345:1320352:7 20356:11,1620358:3 20373:920412:8,11 20414:1520417:19 20426:2120427:4 20432:1820436:17 20438:9,13

challenged 20380:1220419:20

Chamber 20372:1920436:13

chance 20348:1,220349:14 20350:6,1020392:18 20422:15

change 20289:1920291:5 20292:6,22

changed 20258:820287:12

changes 20258:4changing 20261:20chaps 20307:16characteristically

20307:25charge 20402:14,19,21

20402:24 20403:1720405:5

charged 20405:19Chaskalson 20278:14

20279:16 20280:5,920364:13 20365:2020436:1

Chaskalson’s 20364:11chief 20335:6,20

20408:16,20choose 20315:8,25chopped 20355:18circuit 20336:11

20428:8circumstances 20258:9

20261:13 20288:220373:19,22 20405:320425:6 20431:12

circumstantial20352:15

citizenry 20257:8,10citizens 20252:5,14

20253:1clarified 20279:16clarity 20360:13

20364:25 20365:7clear 20249:23

20313:15,1620321:24 20354:120357:4 20361:1920363:5 20375:2420389:5,6 20398:1420399:4 20400:520430:16 20434:1420438:11

cleared 20334:3clearer 20297:10clearly 20260:9,15,17

20265:25 20270:420349:22 20354:2,220411:15 20414:10

clients 20316:1320318:7 20319:1220321:17 20323:220372:25

clockwise 20290:8close 20362:11

20412:21 20420:19closed 20276:8,14

20318:2,4closes 20246:6clothes 20298:17Coin 20422:12colleague 20384:2

20385:10 20407:2020421:25 20434:7

colleagues 20287:24collectively 20335:9college 20404:18,19Colonel 20265:19

20280:17,21,2220291:18,19 20292:620292:14,2320305:25 20353:1220353:15 20354:2320358:21 20365:3,720367:5,21 20382:1420389:20 20390:2020391:3 20392:1,2120397:15 20435:8

colour 20299:3come 20263:7 20287:25

20323:24 20325:1520334:14 20335:1520335:25 20338:920372:3,18 20373:1120374:6 20383:120389:1 20390:10,1620391:7,14 20407:2120408:3 20414:16,20

comes 20251:1520401:15 20425:1120431:7

coming 20324:1220346:6

command 20265:9,1820338:10 20343:2120355:12,2520371:12 20381:2,420430:19,22

commander 20291:1020302:25 20305:2420306:22

commanders 20291:520291:21 20338:1020343:3 20382:520386:15

commanding 20307:16comment 20288:4

20301:20 20318:820343:15 20344:2420357:25 20359:2320360:4 20366:2420377:13 20405:5,2320422:25

commentary 20434:6,9comments 20340:25

commission 20241:220254:8 20309:14,1420309:15 20336:1520337:10,1820338:17,25 20339:220339:4,24 20340:2420343:19,2320344:19 20346:1520352:20 20372:9,920372:10 20405:1620406:25,25 20407:220408:23 20436:1620438:16

commissioner 20241:520262:8,11 20293:1320293:21,2520299:25 20311:420360:12 20361:4,1020378:5,8,11,1620379:2,10 20381:120392:23 20426:1920426:22

commitment 20338:1420338:24,24 20339:320339:24 20340:2120341:9 20343:22

committed 20260:17commonality 20379:3communicate 20349:17

20349:17communication

20385:7 20390:8compatible 20430:22

20431:1,14competent 20373:9

20387:3completely 20249:21

20251:20 20302:1520436:2

compliant 20414:12concave 20293:2concentrated 20293:1concentrating

20370:13concept 20270:3concerned 20249:19

20253:15 20291:1920295:3 20313:12,1920322:6 20435:14

concerns 20354:24conclusion 20398:25concur 20337:4confident 20435:17confined 20281:13

20424:18confirmed 20422:4confirming 20351:18confront 20335:3confrontation

20314:11 20322:19confusion 20282:20

20295:13 20420:2conjunction 20265:3connected 20436:15consequences 20297:4

20312:5 20429:24,25

considered 20365:4consolation 20345:13consolidated 20330:23contained 20413:21CONTD 20241:7contemplated 20322:7contention 20353:11

20434:15,22contentions 20436:1contest 20251:19context 20312:10

20340:5 20362:3,320363:14 20379:1120385:18 20391:2520400:5 20412:1220418:12 20422:1720424:6,18 20427:12

continue 20437:7contradiction 20392:5contrary 20315:21contrast 20270:25control 20406:9Controlled 20268:11convey 20396:12conveyed 20340:16

20425:4conveying 20396:8cooperation 20338:2

20338:15,2520340:22

copy 20353:14cordon 20330:13

20334:9corner 20295:4

20306:15corrected 20249:22

20317:10correction 20317:22correctly 20247:15,19

20289:17 20292:2120317:17 20368:2320382:5 20414:22

couldn’t 20304:620411:24

counsel 20413:2120421:7 20428:14,1520429:2

count 20431:17course 20249:13

20252:22,23 20309:320323:4 20345:2320395:2 20433:2,920435:7 20436:6

courses 20395:1520396:25

cover 20259:17coverage 20435:5covered 20408:14covers 20404:16

20405:22 20435:10created 20435:14

20436:7credibility 20428:17crime 20334:20

20342:9 20347:5,10criminal 20260:16

20405:17criticise 20315:3

20345:24criticised 20257:5criticism 20245:16

20246:7 20346:3,4,720346:15

cross 20285:2420356:23 20398:1920434:13 20437:16

cross-examination20241:7,14 20352:2320356:20 20364:1120383:17 20384:1720407:17,2520408:17,2020412:13 20434:1420435:1,13 20438:1,6

cross-examinations20432:19

cross-examine 20428:420437:24

cross-examined20435:24

cross-examining20428:16

crowd 20242:3,2420243:18 20244:1,1320245:7,17 20246:1,920246:12 20247:1620249:19 20264:620312:11 20404:20

crowds 20248:9,13crucial 20306:24

20307:1,4,5,1220317:19

crux 20415:18custody 20259:12,23

Ddaai 20282:3 20285:6

20311:15 20312:820366:24

daarby 20339:820342:24 20387:1220388:18 20399:1120405:9 20417:720429:12

daardeur 20396:2120414:9 20416:17,19

daarmee 20388:4daarna 20264:13

20290:4 20303:2020349:2 20370:1020371:21 20374:1320376:12 20377:420404:20 20418:2520423:6

daarom 20243:1420349:9 20366:1

daaroor 20310:920344:22 20374:2420393:18 20421:1220424:11 20426:1320430:10

daarop 20257:19



Page 5

20290:2 20298:1420301:20 20333:320342:1 20345:1020377:25 20405:9

daarteen 20277:8daaruit 20319:1

20379:22daarvan 20243:13

20261:15 20345:720369:19 20430:4,4

daarvoor 20323:1520369:19 20430:9

daar’s 20290:1920365:17 20369:19

dae 20349:6dag 20244:18,20

20245:4 20267:1320269:16 20275:2320333:4 20334:1920344:2,23,2520365:18 20374:1720430:3,11,1220432:6

dalk 20288:1820298:15

danger 20436:7dangerous 20326:16

20328:16 20329:2320334:4,5

dankie 20241:5,18,2020258:14 20309:1720312:7,8 20323:1520341:4 20346:2220351:1 20407:4

dare 20308:4day 20274:2 20275:21

20287:9,23 20333:220351:15 20407:1120408:21,22,2420428:24 20429:120434:19,25

days 20287:1520403:23

dead 20254:13 20255:420255:12 20361:24

deal 20246:1720265:20 20325:420369:23 20413:18

dealing 20265:1720415:15

dealt 20266:3 20325:17death 20354:8

20411:24deaths 20365:3debate 20280:6

20386:9 20391:2320397:8,8 20408:5,920413:20 20435:5

debatteer 20350:11decide 20434:24decided 20315:21

20316:18 20322:2520328:16 20333:1920344:13

deel 20249:2 20250:1220262:5 20267:11

20270:13 20274:1920311:16 20314:1520323:16 20345:120391:11 20397:3

defence 20260:1220261:3 20336:16,1820336:18 20338:6,1120338:12,23 20339:220340:1,17,1920341:11,12,1420343:21 20344:1520344:18 20356:720360:10 20405:14

defend 20305:1120345:25 20346:320349:15 20350:620354:9 20360:4,2220360:24 20361:1,1220363:12 20365:5

defending 20360:6,720361:21

defends 20360:20defensive 20247:21

20248:17,2220265:14,14

defined 20267:2520270:19 20271:1,2420404:6

definisie 20261:17definitief 20377:15degree 20254:3delayed 20362:20deliberately 20380:5demarcated 20270:5demonstrate 20405:2demonstrated

20431:16denial 20358:9denied 20316:22deny 20351:17

20369:16denying 20392:8

20399:6departures 20260:2depend 20261:13depending 20282:16depends 20255:20,24

20411:13depict 20299:5depicted 20264:3

20273:7 20274:3deploy 20248:22deployment 20265:7derde 20342:21describe 20284:2described 20265:11

20297:23 20303:1420382:13 20425:320434:9

description 20311:9despite 20332:3detail 20307:17

20401:9deur 20247:6 20282:11

20286:7,22 20288:1820291:15 20301:23

20333:4 20334:1920341:16,20 20343:220366:16 20377:1920378:20 20379:1920380:22,22 20393:820416:5

deurbeweeg 20305:20deurgegee 20290:3deursoeking 20330:13deursoekings 20329:10deurstorm 20366:21deurtrap 20365:19didn’t 20248:8

20249:11 20262:1720263:8,25 20279:220301:11 20302:1420317:5,20 20321:1820321:19 20332:1320355:24 20358:2020359:6,16 20360:2520363:10 20367:920380:14,15 20385:820385:20 20386:1920403:23 20404:720408:22 20410:1820417:2 20424:2320434:18

died 20271:2520364:13

dieselfde 20249:520286:21,2220334:21 20343:420388:10,13 20394:320394:4 20416:7

differ 20316:1320358:5

differed 20376:25difference 20264:20

20267:20 20321:2020379:6

differences 20429:18different 20264:2

20308:22 20358:720364:2 20397:10

differently 20249:1220252:12 20270:16

differs 20380:13difficult 20300:13

20406:8difficulty 20362:1dimensions 20269:19ding 20247:7 20254:23

20288:10 20289:1120319:21 20365:19

dinges 20422:11dink 20242:6,8,19

20243:6 20244:3,720247:9 20248:1520271:3 20277:1620286:4 20288:1020290:1,16,2520291:23,2320298:13,18 20313:820327:23 20331:820339:6 20346:18,1920347:13 20350:13

20350:20 20355:720365:19 20366:2020368:5 20374:18,2420377:25 20382:620387:10 20388:8,920388:19 20394:520405:9,12 20406:120409:15 20410:2220413:14 20414:2420415:2,3,4,8,2420416:11 20417:520420:8 20426:7,1120426:13

direct 20352:1420353:8

direction 20246:220247:18 20283:1,320293:22 20295:2,1820301:9 20308:620320:11 20323:120333:18,19 20334:120354:14 20411:1420411:16,16,17,19,2320412:3,5,2420413:13

directions 20300:21directly 20376:18direk 20252:11

20390:25 20416:25direkte 20381:14dis 20247:10 20249:6

20256:10,1320267:14 20287:120288:11 20290:120298:22 20299:1720300:2,10 20302:2520303:16 20304:1520313:25 20320:1720322:12,2120323:22 20326:2220327:1 20366:1220370:11 20390:2220393:7 20395:3,9,2220395:24 20397:2020399:21 20402:1620424:9

disagree 20345:2020360:3 20379:5

disarmament 20304:2220322:19

discharged 20288:6discussed 20257:6

20258:1,3 20287:720306:4,14 20310:1220336:2 20405:120409:20

discussing 20310:2420321:15 20329:13

discussion 20307:2120309:22 20318:1320336:4 20436:23

diskreet 20256:1dispensation 20332:3dispersal 20293:9

20304:2 20322:1920387:23

disperse 20249:520289:12 20302:2420312:12 20332:920365:23 20367:1,1920367:25 20368:8,1420368:15,18,1820369:1 20371:19,2120374:14 20376:1420377:18 20387:2020388:5,12 20390:1920419:14 20420:1320420:15

dispersion 20249:320303:19 20304:2220307:5,11 20324:820324:24 20325:2,820325:21 20366:1320405:10 20421:13

disposal 20328:18dispute 20372:15

20373:20 20376:19disrupted 20310:1,1,13

20310:23 20311:6,820311:10

disruption 20310:2,520310:11,14 20311:320311:5,17,21,2220315:20

disseminate 20336:17distance 20283:4document 20265:6

20400:21 20403:14documents 20383:16doel 20244:19

20246:21 20288:2420299:14,2020305:20 20327:520344:24

doen 20253:1020328:25 20343:1220345:5 20365:2220376:15 20381:1720382:9 20430:14

doesn’t 20245:120293:17,1920381:25 20383:1920386:3 20407:2120415:15,2220427:11 20434:2320436:14

dog 20394:13 20395:120396:10,10

doing 20250:2520252:22 20275:4,520277:13 20278:420332:16 20338:2120340:6 20342:420345:24 20361:120433:5

doktrine 20399:18dokument 20366:20

20402:17 20403:12dokumente 20400:10

20402:18donker 20298:22

20299:5



Page 6

don’t 20241:1320244:11,2120245:22 20260:1820264:19 20279:1020279:17 20280:1,1120285:24 20286:820293:12,1320294:10,1020300:14 20307:1120308:7,10 20315:220320:8 20321:4,920329:11,25 20335:320335:4,21 20337:320339:13 20346:2320351:19 20356:1320360:19 20361:5,1320361:14,18 20365:120369:16 20372:2420373:13,20 20374:820376:3,18,2020380:4 20386:920389:2 20391:2320393:21 20400:1220401:2,12,13,14,1520417:10 20420:120426:5 20428:2,1320428:22 20433:2220434:8 20435:1220436:9 20437:5,25

dood 20314:24dooie 20255:1doors 20362:11dot 20279:8doubt 20291:18dra 20243:12 20262:6

20285:18 20286:2120330:17

draad 20276:420278:10 20285:920303:4 20316:820334:23 20419:12

drafted 20312:4drag 20255:11dragged 20257:16

20258:18dragging 20255:15,22

20256:3,18 20257:620260:22

drawn 20258:5,820398:25 20434:24

dreigement 20290:420291:25

dreigemente 20248:2420314:24 20315:16

drew 20401:25drie 20328:12,12droë 20423:18druk 20274:14dry 20407:20,25

20427:6dryf 20249:1 20289:12drywer 20286:24dubbed 20411:9

20416:2due 20309:3 20345:23duidelik 20248:16

20254:2 20288:820294:17 20303:2220342:17,2220344:21,2220347:15 20349:720355:8 20365:2120388:3,13 20405:1020405:12 20406:1,420418:14 20423:820429:12 20430:7

duidelike 20375:520376:12

duidelikheid 20296:3duisende 20350:23Duncan 20330:23duties 20253:22duty 20253:2 20287:22

20288:5 20405:16

Eearlier 20275:4

20303:14 20358:1420392:2,5 20405:120419:19 20433:7

early 20400:1420407:10

easier 20295:17easily 20249:17east 20257:15 20281:1

20296:24 20298:220300:21

eastern 20304:12,13eastwards 20301:1eed 20370:23 20430:10een 20242:25 20243:5

20271:21 20273:920286:4,22 20304:720316:4 20319:2120326:9 20331:2020339:6,7 20370:920377:19 20387:1620389:13 20397:2,420399:16,16,20,2220404:19 20413:120415:4 20418:620432:1

eenvoudig 20348:16eerlikheid 20349:10eers 20288:9 20296:3

20348:25 20349:1,2,220349:4 20366:2220389:12 20402:1820402:22 20404:2220425:22 20432:17

eerste 20316:8 20326:920344:2 20350:1720367:15 20370:920387:18 20402:16

effect 20422:5effective 20425:8effectively 20322:15

20355:5egter 20344:25eie 20254:1 20261:17

20283:14 20366:1920375:16 20416:5

eiendom 20252:18eight 20364:12,16,18

20397:23 20424:25einde 20319:22either 20247:16

20248:3 20276:2320277:5 20278:320286:18 20300:2320300:25 20301:320305:10,16 20324:420326:13 20329:2020329:21 20352:1420353:7 20359:1220380:4 20382:320392:21,24 20404:120406:22 20409:2020409:23 20412:23

ekskuus 20279:23,2420324:17 20384:1420431:18

ek’s 20365:20elaborate 20389:2element 20251:4

20314:22 20336:2520406:1

eliminate 20245:2020248:6 20295:17

elke 20245:3 20269:1620291:14 20365:1820376:16 20381:1620381:16

elkeen 20381:19emphasis 20315:23

20404:11emphasise 20404:10employed 20362:22enable 20308:20encircle 20371:22

20377:18 20379:22endeavour 20401:12engaged 20349:13

20378:15 20379:1220402:11 20425:2

engages 20422:620425:10,19

engaging 20403:2020424:19 20425:3

Engels 20255:2520368:12

Engelse 20254:19English 20368:10

20414:22 20433:18enige 20247:5,6

20345:8 20348:18,1820348:24,2520350:10 20374:1820396:20 20429:920432:7

enigiets 20394:5enigsins 20301:23

20345:7 20348:2320349:3 20366:1820396:2 20399:1720419:9

enigste 20306:1720311:18 20399:15

20412:17enjoined 20405:17enkel 20249:6ensovoorts 20301:22

20378:25enter 20304:1 20378:13entered 20363:11entire 20313:11entirely 20264:24

20325:12entitled 20252:6,14

20253:1,21 20266:2,420266:4 20410:1620433:12,15 20434:6

envisaged 20392:4equally 20434:21especially 20431:7essentially 20243:9

20313:13 20340:19estimate 20327:19,21etcetera 20417:20

20430:23ETV 20277:20evading 20380:5

20429:22event 20265:6

20275:18 20294:2420307:14 20329:620387:3 20419:2

events 20323:5eventually 20304:17

20360:7everybody 20315:9

20322:25 20342:920347:5 20372:6

everybody’s 20308:11evidence 20249:15

20258:17 20289:1720307:6 20309:2520311:5 20317:1620325:13 20335:8,1320346:10,13 20350:320352:14,14,1520353:8,10,1220361:5 20366:1520369:9 20373:18,2220374:2 20375:2120376:21 20382:1920389:1,4 20393:2320397:22 20398:120399:4 20400:7,1520414:19 20415:2520416:1 20417:2120419:6 20420:2120422:1 20426:20,2320432:21,2220434:19 20435:620436:19

evidence-in-chief20335:5,7 20387:11

evident 20260:19,22exact 20317:11 20370:3exactly 20247:23

20252:22 20266:220268:15 20271:820275:3 20315:4

20338:3,14,2420339:2,24 20340:2120341:9,11 20343:2220353:24 20361:520364:14 20365:820368:25 20418:1920429:23 20430:1720433:19 20435:9

examination 20346:2120356:24 20434:14

examine 20437:17examined 20398:20example 20244:24

20247:17 20278:120390:1 20393:2320424:19 20425:1

examples 20380:1020401:25 20403:1620404:4 20431:16

excepted 20257:8exception 20256:9

20258:11 20436:9exceptional 20258:9exceptions 20260:23,24exchange 20294:15

20427:15exclude 20376:1,8

20379:15 20380:9,1720380:21,2420429:21

excluded 20375:2520376:23

excludes 20377:1020379:4,8,14,1820380:7,12,1420392:6

excuse 20397:7execution 20338:3exercise 20304:22

20396:5,8,10,1420399:24,24 20400:120403:18

exercises 20395:220396:4,19 20399:25

exhausted 20310:11exhibit 20263:15

20265:1 20378:3,1120383:11,22 20384:420384:16 20393:920394:9 20400:13,1320403:16 20404:420410:24

exhibits 20384:16expect 20257:8

20313:19,2020314:11,1820319:16,1820345:19 20401:24

expectation 20252:1420253:1 20329:4

expectations 20318:14expected 20313:16,18

20314:6,7,8,1020319:16,1720322:17 20331:620345:15



Page 7

experience 20248:220249:16,25 20250:220250:4,6 20319:420389:20 20425:7

experts 20342:920347:5,10

explain 20294:120297:20 20308:120392:18 20422:15

explained 20290:1420313:13 20322:520427:23

explanation 20306:2220392:2,25,2520422:15 20423:2320431:8

explanations 20428:920429:6

explore 20389:25expression 20362:25extending 20241:14extrapolating 20360:18eye 20307:19

Ffabricated 20422:16fabrication 20393:24

20428:10face 20256:2 20258:19facie 20249:10

20396:12facing 20257:13,15

20299:9,12,2220300:25 20301:1,4,420301:7,9 20303:1220305:5 20306:2320308:6

fact 20245:21 20251:1820257:15 20265:420278:16 20280:1620282:22 20287:1420292:3 20303:1220308:4 20310:320311:23,25 20315:820321:13 20323:2520328:18 20331:1420331:15 20333:2420336:18 20343:1620348:8 20360:520363:24 20364:720372:18 20379:1520383:15 20392:1920401:23 20404:1020404:14 20405:220414:2 20421:1520427:12 20434:4

factor 20256:21fair 20243:16 20252:9

20254:6 20259:2320293:5 20300:1520303:9,12 20326:1920333:9 20337:120344:7 20362:220386:16 20404:220412:14

fairness 20336:21

20372:13fall 20254:12 20255:11falling 20307:19false 20420:4,21

20422:16familiar 20263:16

20400:6far 20245:5 20250:18

20250:23 20284:1120291:18 20311:920313:18 20331:520354:21,23 20355:620398:2 20436:19

fase 20244:19 20246:2220247:10 20270:920273:17 20274:1720274:18 20276:520283:19 20288:1320296:15 20329:920333:5 20334:10,11

fases 20246:2220270:12 20273:1120273:17 20275:14

fashion 20344:17fast 20246:6fatal 20357:21

20364:20fatally 20398:25fault 20263:8 20332:12

20339:12favour 20428:12fear 20258:9feasible 20245:25feit 20301:18 20378:18feite 20242:11

20243:13 20244:1020345:11 20350:1220399:8,15 20406:4

feitlik 20432:15fence 20278:17 20281:2field 20327:12fifth 20438:13fight 20319:18

20321:20file 20301:2files 20437:9final 20394:7,8finally 20430:15find 20244:24 20250:3

20335:2,4,14,2420346:14 20348:820353:14 20376:2020377:8 20419:21

finding 20297:24fine 20253:6 20254:10

20273:12 20289:320290:18 20291:2,1720307:13 20308:2320345:19 20352:1,220354:20 20384:2220385:4 20391:2220395:10 20404:520410:9 20418:1720437:7

finger 20280:4finish 20262:24

20302:15 20348:1,320406:12 20407:1020437:3,11,15

finished 20357:4,8,1220364:9

fire 20364:17 20400:620424:7,8

firearms 20423:2,13,2320423:24

fired 20316:2120342:14 20346:920347:21 20348:7,920348:10 20369:15

firing 20365:220395:15,16,2320396:25 20397:120399:21,21 20400:220400:3 20403:8,8

first 20258:2 20259:620267:19,1920293:18 20294:2320312:13 20362:920364:8,11 20374:820375:24 20383:1220383:22 20395:1,1020395:12 20417:2520431:3 20433:1

firstly 20290:2220354:23 20385:520388:25 20409:120413:22 20416:2220433:15

fisies 20424:13five 20251:19 20287:15

20372:5,6,7fixable 20270:4fixed 20270:3,3

20273:6,13 20275:1120275:13

flew 20354:1520359:20

flip 20314:18flowing 20367:4follow 20245:12

20262:2 20293:1420295:6 20303:2520306:2 20307:2520361:5

followed 20321:1220329:16 20360:820363:1 20364:1820386:14

following 20307:2020325:14 20384:19

follows 20279:620364:19

follow-up 20258:1620329:14 20331:1

foot 20284:10 20331:12footpath 20265:20

20414:3 20415:17force 20244:20

20312:25 20376:7,920376:24 20377:920379:8,8,14,15,1820380:7,8,10,17

20386:13,17 20392:420392:6 20395:13,1420400:19

forces 20325:4,520328:18

forcibly 20435:3foresaw 20281:12

20322:3 20323:620324:1

foresee 20248:1220249:11 20315:720321:18,19 20322:320324:12

foreseen 20248:920249:11,13,1420250:17 20309:2220310:6 20319:16

foresight 20315:19forget 20257:10

20318:17forgive 20329:1

20376:17 20392:17forgot 20252:2form 20390:11formasie 20247:6

20298:19 20390:1620390:18

formation 20264:8,920270:17 20390:9,1620391:14,1620393:15 20427:6

formations 20391:5formed 20264:5

20303:11 20306:2320335:9 20338:9

forth 20253:1520316:22 20323:11

fortitude 20402:7forward 20249:20

20280:3 20311:14,2520368:14,18 20369:120390:10 20391:8,17

foto 20266:7 20271:4,620271:19,2220277:16,19,2220278:7,12 20290:5,920300:4 20320:2420323:20 20330:8,920409:4,17 20410:4,520410:11,20 20411:220412:18 20413:1620415:3 20416:7,820420:10 20421:17

fotos 20320:2420409:17

found 20249:1720335:22 20348:720419:22

four 20300:18,2020301:5,5 20400:4

fout 20344:1frame 20337:25,25frankly 20280:11

20352:21free 20271:1,11

20274:1 20275:21

20341:3 20358:5freely 20274:2Freudian 20418:18Friday 20241:24

20309:24 20310:720317:1,16 20437:8

front 20255:2120271:11 20307:1720320:11 20378:1320409:8,8,12,19,21

frustrated 20333:25full 20338:1 20363:13

20363:13 20368:320369:24 20434:25

fully 20245:22further 20262:1

20282:8 20283:1220286:18 20307:2220345:23 20354:1820358:24 20382:320386:14 20390:120393:22 20427:2520428:5 20433:1720435:6 20436:1020437:17

Ggaan 20248:25 20266:7

20273:21 20274:1720274:22 20277:920278:23 20283:1820287:2 20288:1420289:12 20298:1920302:23 20303:220341:10,12,2320342:1 20345:3,420350:20 20365:2320366:13,16 20368:620368:7 20371:2020374:12 20376:1420376:14,1520391:19,1920397:14 20399:1320402:18 20413:1120415:1 20416:620419:1,14 20421:2120426:16

gap 20329:22 20420:19gaping 20276:16gates 20329:22gathered 20428:8gathering 20265:20gearresteer 20249:5

20324:10 20327:4,8,8geassisteer 20303:20gebaseer 20415:13gebeur 20245:3

20247:4 20270:1220312:21 20316:820319:3 20343:1,220344:4 20398:620399:12,1420405:11

gebeure 20311:12gebied 20266:20,21,22

20266:23,23,24,25,25



Page 8

20267:3,5,14,15,1520267:16 20269:2320272:10,13,14,16,2420273:2,19 20274:1620274:21,21,22,2520276:5 20282:1120304:25

gebly 20312:2320313:10 20315:15

gebruik 20242:820254:2,23 20263:2220264:22 20268:1420271:21 20319:320325:10 20341:1620365:15 20371:1720371:23 20377:2120381:13 20388:2120395:22 20424:1520432:14

gedeelte 20247:120266:12 20267:1220268:3 20269:1120330:15 20398:22

gedoen 20254:1820255:7 20286:720288:18 20310:1620325:6,8 20343:7,1020348:20 20349:1120405:13

gee 20244:10 20249:120288:14 20312:2220313:23 20314:2320316:10 20324:920327:18 20341:1120343:7 20348:2120366:23 20375:1720379:24 20381:1720382:9 20394:420397:3,21 20432:16

geel 20269:10geen 20296:16 20303:8

20366:17 20369:7,1920431:22,24 20432:4

gegaan 20270:2320291:14 20303:720312:24 20320:2220324:18 20393:720415:8

gegee 20246:2420269:7 20275:1720276:4 20282:1320286:4 20289:1220291:12,16 20300:720301:23 20302:2320303:7 20305:620311:20 20312:1620312:17 20313:9,1020316:5,7,9 20318:2420326:23 20332:1120333:5 20360:1420365:22,2320366:25 20367:1720374:13,16,1920375:18 20378:2120378:24 20388:1920388:20,22

20389:13 20390:1520393:7 20399:1220405:8 20414:820416:12,1520419:13 20421:1120426:14 20431:2120431:22,25 20432:220432:9,10

gegewe 20271:620399:14 20431:20

gehad 20244:2020266:16 20269:920283:15 20284:2220285:8 20310:1820315:1 20327:620334:19 20366:1920423:11

gehardloop 20277:720424:2

gehoor 20254:2420288:19 20291:2520303:7 20312:17,2220313:8,10 20314:2320324:9 20326:2320381:9 20387:2120388:12,2220390:14,2520397:20 20414:820416:12,15

gekies 20421:14gekom 20267:13

20281:25 20282:720288:22 20289:120311:12 20420:1520426:8

gekommunikeer20270:23 20288:2120325:7

gekoördineer 20430:5gekry 20303:1

20330:14 20420:12gekyk 20285:7,10

20334:25geld 20298:14geleentheid 20310:18

20316:9gelees 20286:4 20287:3

20418:14gelewer 20344:24geloods 20269:24

20332:11gelê 20432:7gemaak 20290:20

20305:21 20314:2420336:9 20344:2320392:14 20394:320421:3

gemeld 20266:20gemerk 20281:20gemik 20426:17geneem 20259:2general 20241:8

20256:8 20258:120270:1 20376:2220377:2,8 20378:1,1820379:4 20380:13

20422:2generally 20252:15generic 20392:2

20393:1genius 20360:2genoeg 20421:20genoem 20250:11gepraat 20243:23

20325:19 20366:1520369:8 20415:120423:10 20425:1620425:20 20426:9

geraak 20292:9gerapporteer 20290:1gereageer 20247:13

20316:5 20334:2320366:1 20377:2520405:10 20429:1320429:13

geregtig 20423:8gerieflikheidshalwe

20348:12geroep 20283:16,17

20291:10gesels 20279:24

20393:13gesien 20247:12

20278:22 20279:2420285:11 20290:5,620324:17 20341:2120341:25 20356:320365:25 20389:1220398:4 20399:1120409:4,18 20413:1520426:9,12 20431:1920431:24

gesit 20246:2320247:10

geskiedenis 20247:4geskiet 20343:5

20425:18 20432:3geskool 20348:16geskuif 20257:20

20275:15 20296:15gesluit 20314:1gesprek 20285:13

20289:10 20390:2520415:8 20422:9

gestaaf 20388:19gestaan 20290:10

20367:15gestel 20270:24

20301:18 20350:1220430:7

gestem 20391:1220392:13

gestop 20348:13gestorm 20288:12gesture 20407:22gestuur 20342:20getal 20327:17getting 20334:1getuienis 20278:6,22

20291:8 20302:2120324:24 20344:2220365:18 20377:3

20398:6 20399:1520406:5 20423:920432:6

getuig 20243:1,5,2220246:19 20247:320248:16 20267:9,2320279:21 20288:2520290:25 20310:920313:1,8 20318:2420318:25 20324:2320330:6 20366:1920371:16 20374:2420378:2,19 20382:2120389:16 20391:1820393:19 20397:1920398:5 20399:1120400:11 20421:1220423:17,21 20424:520426:14 20430:10

geval 20248:18,22,2420249:6 20254:17,1820254:25 20258:2520274:18 20313:220316:3 20325:220326:8 20327:720330:4 20367:1520371:17 20377:320432:13

gevalle 20249:420255:8 20311:1820312:21 20420:9

gevat 20342:1920377:19

gevee 20303:22gevestig 20342:1gevind 20342:13gevlieg 20359:17gevolg 20306:18

20365:18 20377:5gevolge 20303:8

20430:4gevorm 20267:10

20305:2gevra 20242:7

20247:11 20266:1320275:10,16 20345:920415:11 20416:1320420:9 20424:1120426:11

gevuur 20424:2gewaarsku 20319:5gewapen 20330:12gewees 20243:12

20247:2 20267:820269:11 20270:2420276:5 20288:1820289:2,9 20290:1220291:23 20299:1520300:4,8 20303:4,620303:17 20305:1920306:18 20315:1520320:25 20324:1020324:21 20325:1020327:4,5,8 20328:2420329:10 20332:920333:3 20334:21

20335:1 20344:2,420345:6 20365:2120366:14 20368:1220369:12 20376:1420382:21 20388:620396:20 20398:620399:13,14 20414:920415:5 20416:16,1920417:6 20423:1720427:2 20430:6

geweet 20275:1220303:21 20314:120315:16 20316:720330:18 20349:520382:8

geweier 20324:820327:6

geweld 20254:3gewone 20248:19

20421:12gewoonlik 20247:7

20286:24geword 20250:8

20270:24 20327:2,4gewys 20254:21

20326:25 20333:620366:20 20393:5

geïsoleer 20290:920327:4

ge-sequence 20277:20ge-shift 20275:9GGG17 20353:13GGG19 20384:5,16gist 20290:13,14

20317:9 20338:1120385:10 20415:22

give 20280:5 20306:2220312:1 20317:8,1020322:16 20338:1,1520338:25 20339:320340:13,13,2220343:23 20346:2,4,420348:1,2 20349:1420359:23 20364:6,2320367:11 20370:520374:2,10 20381:220382:4 20389:320392:18 20406:1420406:23 20407:820422:14 20437:2020438:4

given 20265:10,2420269:19 20270:1620280:17 20286:1420294:12 20303:1220304:16 20307:1020313:21 20321:1920323:11 20331:1620338:10 20343:2120360:11 20361:620362:6 20368:2220369:3 20382:320387:24 20393:2320397:9 20406:1220422:2 20427:2120430:19,22



Page 9

20431:10,1320433:10,20

gives 20250:2120346:25

giving 20316:1620343:15 20350:620355:19 20357:1220360:25 20393:320423:24

glad 20250:5 20261:1520286:21 20299:1420324:18 20325:4,1020326:22 20341:8,1720345:2,10 20350:1120350:13 20365:1420366:22 20370:2420371:15 20378:1820378:22,2320382:20 20390:2220395:21 20402:2220430:2 20432:6

glo 20242:8 20244:920259:2 20328:21,2420334:17,21 20349:920366:15 20378:2320393:18

go 20244:11 20245:5,2220245:23 20246:5,520259:15 20263:1520270:19 20273:2220279:1 20284:1120285:1,1,16,16,1620285:25 20286:1920288:3 20297:1020304:6 20313:17,2120315:25,2520316:14 20318:2020321:12,23 20322:420322:18,25 20331:520332:4 20333:1920336:1 20352:320368:9,14,14,1820378:3 20382:2320385:3,9 20390:1,220394:7 20402:920403:4,25 20404:1420404:15 20407:1620412:20 20414:1420415:20,22 20419:520419:18 20426:2320433:8

goals 20332:22,2320333:10

God 20349:25goed 20248:21,25

20296:1goeie 20348:18goeiemore 20241:19goes 20271:11 20363:2

20363:10good 20241:4,8

20269:17 20276:720287:12 20294:1220330:21 20336:2320346:12 20349:2520350:5 20351:25

20359:13 20385:920401:1 20428:1520429:1

gotten 20264:2Gotz 20437:15gou 20300:6graag 20297:7 20366:5grade 20320:25grammar 20391:24

20397:8grammatical 20397:8grap 20254:15grateful 20308:1

20317:22 20408:1gratuitously 20433:23great 20248:4,7grenade 20363:2

20364:10,1120381:11 20397:17

grenades 20362:2320382:19 20397:24

groep 20242:1920267:10 20291:1020291:15 20292:820301:25 20302:2220305:17 20313:2520314:2,3,1620316:10 20319:520320:24 20324:1020330:12 20333:420350:14 20379:1920379:23,2520380:22 20381:920382:7 20388:1120414:7,8 20415:1920416:12,12,13,16,1720416:24 20417:3,720419:11,11 20420:720420:13 20421:1020421:13 20425:21

groepe 20302:2520312:20 20381:15

groepering 20319:120327:3

groepie 20319:220324:22 20424:1220424:12

groepies 20328:2220425:22

grond 20377:4 20399:9grondpad 20281:24groot 20281:22

20330:14 20350:21groter 20273:20ground 20245:24

20255:12 20261:2020352:19 20354:1720359:21 20360:1,820361:24 20397:17

group 20251:620265:12,13,1720291:20 20313:5,1920313:19,20 20314:820314:12,1320316:18 20324:320326:2 20332:6,15

20332:23 20333:1120335:10 20336:1720353:18,20 20354:320362:7,11,12,14,1920362:20,24 20363:320363:6 20367:22,2220370:14 20378:1220387:20 20388:520408:8 20414:12,1220415:19,21,2120416:2,2,3,4,2320417:4,13,2120419:5,17,17,23

grouped 20354:17groupings 20313:14groups 20354:13

20387:23Gumbi 20437:23gun 20395:5guns 20362:8

Hhaak 20420:6hacked 20354:8hadn’t 20297:2haelgeweer 20381:13haelgewere 20424:1,15

20424:18 20425:17half 20305:25 20307:7

20438:2hand 20329:25 20335:4

20376:18 20406:420408:13 20412:2220413:5

hande 20330:18handgun 20395:18

20403:7handguns 20398:10

20403:19handhaaf 20253:8handle 20354:18

20435:18handlers 20394:13

20395:1,23 20396:11hands 20370:1hang 20244:17 20256:5

20257:19 20269:2320270:10,1120273:10,13,1620275:14 20365:15

hantering 20257:24happen 20245:1

20248:8 20249:1620297:1 20313:520314:7 20315:520318:15 20322:1520322:17 20323:720326:20 20337:2320431:5 20435:2420436:3

happened 20244:2320255:21 20276:1320290:15,2120320:14 20338:1,2220344:14 20349:1920355:17 20364:16

20397:23 20398:7,920427:11,13

happening 20244:2520287:9

happens 20245:2320297:25

happy 20384:2harboured 20332:17hardloop 20277:1

20320:19 20430:620432:8

haven’t 20249:1620351:19 20357:1120359:8

headed 20409:2heading 20265:7

20310:13 20395:120396:4,9

hear 20315:4 20354:620355:12,24,2520358:20 20363:1020367:9 20383:1420385:14,20 20386:120386:6,20,24

heard 20261:2520262:1,2 20294:1520320:16 20321:520356:17 20360:2220363:24 20374:2,620383:1 20385:7,2120386:12 20387:2420388:7 20389:520390:7 20398:1920417:11 20422:320435:8,9

hearing 20385:12,19,2420386:5 20434:13

hearsay 20422:3hede 20432:5heel 20289:2 20366:14heeltemal 20242:10

20290:9 20305:120333:23 20346:1820369:18 20382:720421:16,18

heeltyd 20331:19heen 20274:22hele 20267:2 20271:21

20275:23 20288:1020289:11 20297:620312:18 20319:520320:24 20344:25

helicopter 20354:7,1220362:21 20363:13

help 20262:2220263:15 20279:1320296:2,22 20297:720307:15,21 20397:520401:11,25 20402:120402:9,16

helpful 20309:3Hemraj 20249:22

20262:8 20293:13,1620293:21,2520299:25 20360:1220361:4,10 20381:1

20426:19,22hergroepeer 20423:19herhaal 20312:19

20342:17,20 20356:320365:23 20366:2,1120366:17 20397:21

hey 20263:10he’ll 20389:1 20398:19he’s 20241:10 20253:15

20266:4 20282:2020321:16 20323:1220351:11,1220356:25 20364:320365:10 20385:1620386:4 20389:6

he/she 20374:6,7HHH20 20330:22

20390:3hide 20342:16,21

20348:15 20349:16hier 20267:16 20271:6

20272:16 20277:1520290:8 20304:2520310:17 20323:1720323:18 20326:2520330:8,10 20331:2120342:17 20348:2020350:14,15,1720365:14,1820378:23 20381:1220388:2,4 20390:1920390:24 20391:2120399:21 20400:820423:4,8 20425:1520429:10 20430:10

hierdie 20242:1120243:13 20248:1820250:12 20254:1720254:18 20255:720267:2 20271:4,1820271:22 20272:1220275:13 20277:2220278:7,12 20288:1220289:10 20299:5,1720300:4 20301:23,2420303:3 20305:520322:10 20323:2020324:21 20330:8,8,920330:10 20341:1020349:4,5 20350:2120365:19,21 20366:120387:16 20395:2220397:4 20399:1620402:17 20403:1120420:10 20423:2020432:5

hierna 20396:23hieroor 20423:16high 20434:10higher 20324:5,14

20362:5highest 20254:3hindsight 20289:8,13

20398:4hit 20261:21hoe 20247:12 20254:20



Page 10

20267:5 20271:2220272:25 20274:1420291:12 20314:320316:4 20341:1420345:5 20346:1920348:22 20349:920366:22 20377:3,2320388:11 20389:1520392:13 20393:820397:20 20398:2220399:10,12 20410:4

hoekom 20244:1820267:11 20277:2120278:22 20290:1120300:3,10 20331:1820341:17 20350:1320378:18 20399:2120413:16 20420:1220424:9 20426:1420430:7

hoeveel 20327:2320348:19 20431:21

holding 20311:14,25hom 20259:1 20266:14

20278:7,23 20285:1220350:20 20355:120388:4 20392:1320416:14

home 20250:1920316:19 20318:2020321:25 20322:18

honderd 20330:17hoof 20250:8hoor 20279:25

20287:20 20295:2120350:20 20393:14

hop 20262:17hope 20241:13

20249:18 20358:1220365:10 20372:520438:5

hopeful 20438:14horse 20273:6horseshoe 20264:4,7,9

20264:11 20266:1020267:24 20270:1720272:23

hostile 20244:1320245:7,17 20246:1,920247:16 20249:1920251:5

hour 20307:7 20438:220438:2

houses 20354:15huidiglik 20431:23huis 20303:7human 20256:21

20258:2humour 20254:20hundred 20301:14hy 20250:7,8,10

20257:21 20266:9,1220266:13,1720283:15,17 20290:920290:10,1120291:11,13,14

20300:5 20301:1820316:6 20341:620348:13 20355:2,1420355:21 20356:2,320365:25 20366:1120378:2 20381:9,1020381:17 20387:1720387:18,21 20388:420388:6,8,11,12,2220389:16 20390:1920390:24 20391:1120391:15 20392:1320393:16 20396:2420397:20,2120398:22 20410:2120411:3 20412:17,1720415:11 20416:1320432:2

hê 20284:24 20330:520341:6 20366:5

Iidea 20244:13 20245:6

20248:7 20263:920329:7

ideaal 20325:5iemand 20269:3

20350:17 20366:2320393:8 20394:520396:23 20426:1220432:2,16

iets 20244:7 20254:2320257:21 20267:1420290:16 20341:2520343:9 20344:2520345:6,8 20348:2320349:6 20368:1720388:22 20410:2220419:9 20426:1720430:8 20432:7

iewers 20290:120431:24

ignore 20323:23imagine 20308:4

20403:19immediate 20265:17immediately 20371:7

20371:11 20374:320383:2 20385:13,1920385:21,25 20387:620389:5,8 20398:1720429:3

implemented 20311:2420312:4

implementering20270:9

implications 20434:1impliseer 20316:6important 20247:25

20253:2 20308:920360:9 20383:3

impression 20326:1220399:5 20435:1620436:7

inappropriate 20245:8inaudible 20302:3,7

20430:21inbeweeg 20268:3

20311:15incident 20331:1

20354:6 20420:21incidents 20243:25

20247:15include 20318:18

20361:11 20370:1920370:19 20373:1520373:19,20,2320380:17 20399:5

included 20318:16,1920398:15 20399:120434:16

includes 20370:620376:6,24 20377:920377:12,14 20379:7

including 20274:320386:21 20387:2520399:4

incompatible 20430:1820430:19 20431:1,1120433:20,21

incorrect 20379:1320414:20 20425:12

increase 20390:7indicate 20259:8

20264:8 20383:11indicates 20382:1indication 20406:15indien 20256:24

20261:15 20262:420273:17 20327:3

inference 20258:720434:15,24

inferences 20258:5inform 20344:13informal 20265:21information 20291:2

20291:20 20292:520308:15,1720406:23

informed 20289:1820309:2

ingehandig 20320:24ingelig 20291:23

20344:4ingeroep 20267:7,11ingesamel 20349:11ingeskryf 20244:19inherent 20369:1inhumane 20255:23inimical 20434:1initiated 20390:6injured 20255:12

20316:23 20435:2inkom 20304:4 20397:3inligting 20246:20

20311:12 20334:1920342:25 20349:10

inneem 20313:24innocent 20418:21inputs 20246:24inquiry 20337:18,24

20339:4 20343:23

inside 20264:1020426:25

insident 20242:7,920243:6,23 20244:420332:18 20366:920367:18 20370:1120370:11 20397:20

insidente 20248:1620350:23

insofar 20258:520271:24 20395:1720405:16

instance 20242:4,520356:9

instances 20249:18institution 20252:8instruction 20352:5

20354:4,12 20355:1220355:19 20356:120357:20,2220359:24 20360:5,6,720360:10 20361:2020361:20,22,2320362:4,6,15 20363:720363:17 20364:620365:6 20368:2220369:3,15 20370:520371:12 20373:1320373:15,19 20374:320374:10 20380:1620381:24 20382:320385:14,20,2120386:1,5,6,12,14,2520389:8 20397:10,1620398:15,16 20399:120399:1,3 20404:2520405:21 20422:120431:10,1320433:10,19

instructions 20326:1420352:10 20365:420368:3 20374:920387:24 20405:4

instruments 20395:4insult 20351:19,21intelligence 20251:8

20334:20intend 20241:13

20389:3 20429:5intended 20316:13

20321:14 20336:1320420:17

intending 20319:12intensity 20390:7intent 20251:7

20318:18 20332:1720335:9 20408:7

intention 20316:2420332:5 20336:1620420:20,2320432:21

inter 20420:22interpret 20386:21

20396:22interpretation

20360:15 20387:3

20425:12interrupt 20264:23

20269:25 20280:1220284:14 20383:5

interrupting 20356:20interruption 20357:19interval 20307:9intervention 20265:18intonation 20386:4introduces 20428:18introducing 20433:8investigation 20257:14invitation 20433:10invited 20387:4

20433:7involve 20396:14involved 20242:23

20243:17 20312:220324:3 20375:7,8,1120396:8 20422:18,19

IPID 20342:20 20349:1irregular 20344:17

20433:5irrelevant 20251:20

20308:24 20427:14isn’t 20256:18

20260:19 20281:320304:2,22 20319:1920321:21 20334:1620351:25 20425:9

isolating 20340:4issue 20257:6 20371:5

20374:8 20380:1520415:15 20429:22

issued 20364:1220371:7

issues 20287:7it’s 20244:14,15,25

20245:7,19,2420246:8 20247:2420248:3,10 20282:420283:25 20287:620290:18 20292:1120294:3 20299:220304:11 20307:1520307:20,21 20308:820308:23,24 20309:320329:20,2120332:12 20362:620363:24 20364:2,2220369:21 20371:920389:6 20391:820392:8,21,24,2520393:24 20394:9,1020394:15,20,2120422:3 20428:1320430:17,1920432:21 20433:1720433:20,21

I’d 20288:4 20308:120372:19

I’ll 20245:5 20252:1220263:2,2 20264:720272:6 20281:1020293:6 20295:620296:8 20323:23



Page 11

20335:2,14,2420348:2 20353:16,1620358:2 20372:2,1320376:19,20 20377:720387:2 20397:820402:6 20406:1420407:10,11 20410:920414:20 20418:1720418:18 20429:1,25

I’ve 20250:18 20257:520262:11 20263:1220264:1,2 20265:2420265:24 20267:2520280:11 20285:2020294:12 20308:2320335:17 20339:1,420339:23 20357:420359:2,9,1220360:22 20362:120379:3 20381:2220384:25 20393:2320405:18 20407:9,2020419:21 20425:320431:17 20433:10

i.e 20425:10

Jjaar 20250:7,7

20343:10JANUARY 20241:1jare 20247:9 20250:6

20350:16,22,2220389:17,22

jargon 20396:14jigsaw 20309:6JJJ 20262:12,22

20337:6,7JOC 20289:18 20290:3

20290:5 20291:3,2220292:21

JOCCOM 20246:2220247:9 20250:1220265:7

jou 20270:11 20327:820395:7 20404:22,22

journalist 20282:2420283:10,11

judgment 20436:6juis 20310:16 20320:21julle 20348:24,25justification 20261:2justified 20260:15

20262:5 20338:1420340:21 20341:920343:22 20371:1220405:3,4

justifies 20352:1520353:10

justifying 20256:9jy 20256:23 20269:5

20270:12 20281:1820292:19 20294:1720315:11 20327:820328:22 20348:2220350:20 20365:1620365:17,18 20366:5

20371:16 20374:1420423:8 20432:16

Kkaart 20267:3kamera 20277:20kameraman 20341:21kant 20267:10 20282:3

20300:9 20365:1620389:14 20430:13

kante 20277:2,8,10Kaptein 20283:15

20285:14Karl 20366:20keep 20307:18keer 20339:7 20344:2

20346:21 20350:1720402:16 20431:21

kennis 20243:1220262:6 20285:1820286:21 20311:1220394:6

kept 20407:20,24kill 20371:13 20399:2

20404:25 20427:10killed 20273:25,25

20274:11 20275:1920275:25 20352:520355:17 20364:1720364:20 20389:920398:10 20405:2020418:20,22 20421:1

killing 20397:2520398:18 20401:2020405:2

kind 20297:2020352:13 20374:920380:15 20386:15

kinds 20376:2kit 20301:21klaar 20342:1

20393:13klag 20261:17klein 20267:9 20276:21

20388:8kleiner 20274:25,25

20328:22 20424:1220425:22

klim 20377:22klomp 20305:5knew 20294:2,4,6

20326:17 20418:22know 20250:23

20251:3 20252:2520259:10 20260:1820263:10 20264:9,1920266:3 20268:2220271:1 20277:2420279:10 20285:1520287:5,17 20294:1020297:19 20300:2420308:7 20315:420318:7 20321:1120322:13 20339:1320340:18 20344:1520346:9 20349:20

20350:4 20353:620356:14 20357:1020357:22 20358:1320359:6 20360:19,2320361:18 20364:4,1020364:20 20365:220369:13 20373:420383:3 20385:120394:21,21 20398:820400:12 20406:8,1120412:3 20413:420417:11,19 20425:120425:7 20429:23,2420430:17 20431:920433:23 20435:620436:23 20437:5,820437:25

knowing 20308:11knowledge 20242:1,22

20329:14 20331:720418:20 20429:2020429:20 20431:9

known 20297:120306:13

knows 20299:2,320433:19 20434:1

kolletjies 20299:5Kolonel 20290:5,25

20291:8,11,1320366:10 20375:1420375:14 20381:920389:22 20390:1420391:10 20393:14

kom 20266:10 20269:420274:15,2320288:13 20299:420302:24 20303:1820327:23 20346:1720348:24 20349:1,520351:7 20371:1620374:13 20375:1620381:8 20391:2020392:14 20393:1820396:24 20400:1020414:9 20416:17,1920421:14

kombineer 20248:1520316:3

komiese 20254:23Kommissaris 20300:2

20325:19 20326:920378:17 20381:620393:5 20426:8,1120427:3

kommissie 20341:1020349:5,8 20432:7

kon 20267:4 20268:220288:16,18 20289:220291:24 20303:720314:3 20320:2520326:24 20330:1820334:25 20341:1220341:17 20349:3,420378:1 20389:1120420:11,1220421:21

konfrontasie 20247:220249:4 20305:1820313:2 20314:2520423:7

konteks 20341:820393:9 20418:1320429:10

kontinuum 20312:25koppie 20266:23

20278:20,23 20283:320283:10 20284:1520287:25 20292:1620293:1 20294:8,2220295:2,12,1920301:1,9,1020303:22 20305:6,1220305:20 20311:1520312:13,23 20314:220314:19 20315:1520315:24 20316:1720324:5,13,19,21,2220324:23 20325:120334:3,14,1820388:8,9 20411:2320411:24

koppies 20293:1120312:13,14 20313:620315:8,22 20321:2420322:1,2

korrek 20247:2020263:11 20267:2220268:20 20271:720276:16,2120277:11 20281:5,1620282:7 20283:620284:17 20290:2420291:7 20292:1020304:15,18 20306:720313:2 20314:1620320:9 20322:2120333:14,2320370:12,16 20381:520382:11 20395:320397:14 20398:1320409:6 20413:220425:15 20427:2

korreksie 20242:1020287:2 20290:2520415:9 20426:15

korrekte 20423:1kort 20288:24kraal 20264:5 20267:9

20271:11 20276:1920276:21 20281:1520282:23 20284:820289:20,2420304:12,14 20305:120306:4,16 20320:1220323:4,5 20353:1920353:21 20362:1220363:4 20367:18,2320370:14,1520378:14 20409:8,820409:22 20412:2220420:25 20421:14

kriminele 20261:16

kry 20296:3 20301:2220330:18 20345:420404:20 20426:16

Kuhn 20425:1kursus 20395:23

20396:24kursusse 20396:20Kwelas 20387:25kyk 20287:2 20288:20

20289:8 20290:920300:9 20301:1820345:4 20349:220388:6 20394:2320396:23 20400:1120402:18 20419:1

kêrels 20348:20K9 20344:10,10

20395:23 20396:6,2020399:16,17 20400:920400:22 20401:520402:17 20403:1220403:21 20404:6,21

LL 20265:1 20378:11

20393:9 20410:24laaste 20271:13

20366:24laat 20254:22 20296:3

20348:21 20349:1,220356:4 20410:1220411:12

lack 20315:1920364:25

lag 20255:1lang 20281:18

20415:10langs 20419:10language 20351:17

20396:6,6 20434:15largely 20435:3lateraan 20388:6latere 20330:19laugh 20255:3laughable 20351:3,5,10laughing 20254:13

20258:19launch 20358:18

20362:16,17 20363:720363:18,25 20364:220364:4,4 20367:8

launched 20367:12law 20252:21,23

20253:14,19lay 20435:16LCRC 20342:9

20346:11,13 20347:5leadership 20336:3leaning 20280:3learned 20384:2

20421:25 20434:6leave 20249:7,9

20281:10 20315:8,2120324:4,13 20329:520421:23

led 20317:22 20436:19



Page 12

lede 20242:8 20301:2020303:4 20311:1420341:17 20343:3,520344:2,4 20348:1620348:20 20349:820350:15,21,2220356:4 20366:2420368:6 20371:1620375:16 20376:1220377:19,2120379:23 20382:9,1120388:24 20429:1220430:4 20431:23

lees 20338:19 20339:1120341:8 20342:320393:9 20398:2220399:19 20429:10

left 20326:15 20412:2220413:5 20428:120434:3

left-hand 20295:3leg 20406:12,23

20407:9 20419:3legal 20437:21 20438:4leierskorps 20336:6leke 20255:5length 20322:5lesser 20345:19lethal 20376:2,5,7,9,24

20377:9,16,2420379:7,8,14,15,1820380:7,8,10,1720381:7 20382:820392:4 20395:9,1320395:14

letters 20290:10let’s 20248:1,6

20250:20 20251:420252:2 20257:920260:1 20267:1820277:25 20279:1120286:10,1120289:16,2320292:20 20293:1520295:12,16,1820303:10 20318:1620340:14 20362:520369:23 20372:1920379:5,6 20380:620382:23 20389:2520390:1 20394:720398:10 20429:2

leuen 20391:11,12,20level 20252:13 20253:1lewe 20252:17lid 20350:18 20381:12lie 20348:9 20350:4,4,4

20419:7 20433:25lies 20428:11,13Lieutenant 20265:19

20437:23life 20253:14lig 20288:19 20345:2

20365:25liggaam 20257:22light 20306:14

20331:24 20332:220336:20

likelihood 20407:10line 20250:17 20251:21

20273:1 20281:220283:2,2,4,2520284:5 20295:620296:25 20297:1020297:11,12,19,21,2520297:25 20298:1,3,720298:8 20299:7,8,1120299:21,2520300:16,2320303:11 20306:2320307:16 20310:4,620316:14 20317:4,620317:20,23,2420318:1,2 20320:1420324:3 20336:14,1620338:8,9 20340:120343:20,2020354:17 20358:1620360:14 20367:520371:6 20395:16,1620395:24 20397:1,120399:21,21 20400:220400:3 20414:4

lines 20338:6 20351:16linie 20283:20,21

20300:8link 20405:22linked 20347:11linkerkant 20409:16

20410:21list 20383:16 20384:16listed 20383:15listen 20293:18

20315:3 20395:1520419:15 20429:16

listening 20367:7literally 20346:14

20360:16little 20435:15live 20364:3,16

20373:23 20375:2520376:23 20378:2220379:4 20385:15,1720386:2,7,22,2520389:7 20395:6,8,1120395:18 20399:2,520403:7,9 20423:1320427:16 20429:21

lives 20289:5 20355:20logic 20363:24

20365:15Logies 20366:8logiese 20300:8long 20241:14 20279:2

20329:12 20331:1620334:12 20389:2020400:14 20408:23

longer 20258:720287:14,16 20288:120288:1 20406:7,9

loods 20360:1420362:17 20363:1

look 20244:11 20257:920265:9,16 20300:1520301:12 20304:520307:16 20314:1720329:21,2420330:22 20336:1520373:4 20394:2220400:13 20402:2020417:9

looked 20312:620355:9,11 20407:9

looking 20301:1020338:5,8 20376:820394:13

looks 20333:1620337:11 20371:2420396:4 20400:520407:8

loop 20272:12,1320305:5 20321:1,220413:9 20416:13

loopbaan 20343:11loose 20327:13loosely 20286:9loots 20358:19los 20379:25lost 20262:12 20431:17lot 20320:16 20373:21

20382:17 20436:14loudhailer 20288:6lowest 20332:4LRC 20349:19lug 20355:1luister 20319:6 20341:6Luitenant-Kolonel

20281:18lunch 20369:24,25

20371:25 20408:620419:6,22

lying 20257:12 20258:620354:17 20359:2120360:1,8 20361:2420390:20 20392:2020397:16

lyk 20298:9lyn 20248:20 20266:11

20266:25 20267:120281:18,19,2220298:4,23 20299:1420299:16 20305:120320:20,21 20321:120332:11 20366:1820366:22 20410:2220416:25 20420:1420420:14 20421:10

lyntjie 20339:6lê 20257:23 20324:9

20327:2,7L191 20263:15L194 20321:23 20322:6L199 20378:10

20379:11

Mmaak 20252:18

20254:23 20257:3

20279:24 20285:620290:12 20301:2220319:3 20322:1120344:1 20348:2420349:1 20377:2220380:19 20387:1720393:13 20406:320410:12,2020411:12 20416:820419:12 20421:1120430:13

maar 20241:1920242:10,1820243:12,2020246:19 20247:320249:1 20250:1120254:1,15,2520255:6,9 20257:2320263:22 20269:820270:22 20273:1920277:1,10,1920286:6 20288:2120290:19 20291:1520294:16 20295:2120296:2 20299:420300:9 20311:16,1920319:2 20321:120325:9 20327:1720328:11 20331:2120334:25 20345:120350:11,20,2520351:5 20356:320365:15 20366:1720379:21 20388:920393:17 20394:2,420396:21,22 20399:820400:11,16 20405:720406:3 20410:620413:9 20415:320417:6 20418:2420424:4 20426:1520429:9 20430:1420431:20 20432:4,15

Mafikeng 20242:20mag 20312:21magazine 20342:7

20347:2magic 20308:11Magidiwana 20317:2,7Magidiwana’s

20317:16magte 20267:11main 20310:14

20324:12maintain 20252:21

20253:14,19maintained 20434:10maintaining 20252:23Makhubela 20280:17

20280:19,21,2220291:9,11,13,18,1920292:6,23 20375:14

Makhubela’s 20292:14making 20250:16

20323:12 20351:1220364:14 20365:10

20404:11 20427:12maklik 20289:8makliker 20328:23male 20248:19man 20250:25 20251:1

20251:14,16,1820299:1

management 20404:20manner 20253:16

20311:9,22 20425:3manual 20400:24

20401:8,10,16,22,24Marikana 20255:14,16

20255:17 20259:120270:2 20274:18

MARTHINUS 20241:4mass 20354:19

20362:18,19material 20248:12

20407:9 20433:1520437:1

materials 20437:18,2520437:25 20438:3

Mathunjwa 20278:1,720278:23 20279:1,620279:12,16,17,23,2320289:1 20319:2320416:14

Mathunjwa’s 20278:1820320:2

matter 20244:1220255:25 20295:1020308:21,23 20353:920386:4 20401:5,1920404:16 20415:1520415:18,2220427:11 20428:120433:18 20434:2420435:18 20436:5,9

matters 20406:8mean 20264:8,9

20286:15 20294:320307:20 20312:1020327:12 20332:1320347:23 20357:2220360:1,21,2520361:16 20364:120373:5,21 20374:2020382:17 20395:1820400:6 20401:23,2420412:6 20422:1720424:23 20425:620427:10 20433:2220434:23 20436:14

meaning 20360:1820386:21 20396:820422:25 20425:1020430:16 20431:1520434:17,18 20435:420435:6

meaningful 20259:21means 20261:1

20263:10 20285:2220285:23 20286:1520286:16,1720297:20 20311:21



Page 13

20340:23 20362:1320380:11 20381:2420401:2 20422:2520434:21,21,23

meant 20266:220338:16 20361:820399:24 20418:1,320418:10,1920420:23 20422:2120424:7 20427:23

measure 20247:2220248:17,2320265:14

media 20264:1620265:23 20266:1620268:6 20269:520281:11,12,17,2420282:6,10,2420283:14,15,1720284:10,23 20285:120285:1,2,7,11,16,1620285:16,2220286:11,1420288:15 20298:8,1020298:16 20301:120342:6,12,1320347:19 20432:2020433:23 20435:1720435:25

medical 20312:1meegedeel 20290:4

20291:11meer 20264:12

20266:14 20270:1020271:20 20274:2020290:11 20320:2420366:1 20421:2020429:14

meeste 20350:15meet 20345:14meeting 20265:8

20315:22member 20403:18

20404:14 20424:1920424:21 20425:2

members 20254:1220259:6 20265:1820268:16,23 20269:120292:13 20293:720302:20 20303:2520303:25 20325:1520326:2 20336:1320340:1,16 20344:1620354:4,5,7,8,13,1720355:10,11,18,2520358:15,17,20,2320362:10,16,2020363:7,9,11 20365:520367:8 20378:1420400:19 20422:520424:24 20426:24

memory 20408:13men 20317:22Meneer 20274:9menigde 20420:9menigte 20248:19

mening 20431:22mens 20254:15,17

20266:7 20349:3,320404:20

mense 20248:2520271:22 20300:620305:5 20315:15,1720316:5,7 20330:7,820330:10 20342:2320343:9 20345:620381:10 20395:2420416:15 20425:21

mentioned 20330:24mere 20292:3 20363:24

20375:14merely 20265:19

20435:13merits 20363:23message 20350:5meted 20259:25meter 20266:11,11

20269:10 20272:2420281:17,19

meters 20255:2220269:10

method 20360:21metode 20334:22metre 20284:2

20296:25metres 20256:3

20264:6,6 20273:720281:14 20282:1720282:18,22,2220283:2 20284:120298:3 20395:16,1720395:25,25 20400:220400:2,3,4,4

microphone 20280:420302:3,6 20430:21

midday 20289:1820290:15

middel 20334:20middle 20385:6midpoint 20269:19mid-sentence 20241:23mike 20339:15,15,17mikrofoon 20286:24militant 20313:5,14,18

20313:19,20 20314:820314:12,1320316:18 20326:220328:14 20332:6,1520332:23 20333:1120335:10 20408:8

militante 20313:2520314:3 20319:220324:22 20330:1120333:4 20419:10

millimetre 20403:7,9mind 20308:11

20335:18 20359:4minded 20332:14minds 20297:3

20336:13minimum 20252:6,13

20252:25 20253:20

20255:11 20257:7minute 20289:11

20337:25,25minutes 20245:19,23

20280:9 20287:18,2420390:7 20427:7

misapprehension20435:14

misdaad 20257:2420406:1

misinterpreted20401:21 20402:3

miskien 20247:2,3,920250:9 20252:1720253:4 20254:2220257:18 20266:720269:9 20278:820283:21 20288:1920288:25 20289:1,920289:10 20294:1720296:2,3,21 20300:720311:19 20320:1720334:19,21,22,2220339:9 20345:320346:20 20348:1320350:18 20371:1620378:1 20379:1720380:2 20391:1420392:11 20393:1620394:4 20396:22,2320406:5 20411:1120420:6 20432:11

misled 20317:1420370:25 20371:2

misquoting 20364:13mistake 20408:15,19mistaken 20390:21misunderstood

20402:4mis-quote 20417:6Mkhwanazi 20249:15

20250:6mobilising 20279:9modes 20371:22,23

20374:15 20379:2120379:22

Modiba 20265:19moeilik 20330:4moes 20300:4 20311:14

20320:22 20344:3moet 20243:14 20254:3

20255:25 20259:220278:12 20288:920290:7 20296:220303:16,1820312:19 20341:620348:23 20362:1720363:1 20366:620371:18,19,2020375:3 20380:2120381:17 20382:1020387:21 20388:1020391:19 20394:420397:3 20402:1720406:2 20410:420411:11 20425:22

20430:13moment 20287:16

20295:4 20306:420308:18 20321:1520340:14 20353:920383:15 20394:1420401:4

moments 20335:17mond 20390:23Monday 20354:6monitoring 20265:12mooi 20417:16

20421:17moontlik 20263:22

20289:9,13 20302:2520330:4,10,16

moontlikhede20334:24

moontlikheid 20301:1720301:19 20314:2520370:22 20420:11

moorde 20405:11morning 20241:4,8

20251:8 20265:820310:24 20334:1420342:11 20347:1820437:12 20438:12

motivation 20344:9motive 20433:17,18motiveer 20342:23

20348:23 20349:9mount 20354:5

20358:18 20360:17mountain 20278:19mouth 20391:3,4move 20245:14

20247:18 20248:320258:1 20261:5,2520263:2,3 20269:2120271:2 20275:2120285:13 20293:2220299:12 20304:920306:3 20308:720331:15 20353:1420362:8 20368:17,1720368:17 20369:1,2520377:21 20387:2020391:16 20395:1520395:23 20396:2520399:25 20400:2

moved 20279:520280:11,1820284:15 20294:2420294:25 20324:520330:25 20331:1320331:15 20353:1820353:20 20362:9,1220363:3

movement 20292:20,2420293:8,9 20295:1220295:14,16,2420299:9 20303:1320387:25

moves 20382:2520402:10

moving 20255:24

20269:18 20271:9,1020271:15 20274:220276:9 20284:2020297:4 20302:1020306:10 20356:2120403:8,20 20412:24

Mpofu’s 20246:1720251:23 20281:720318:7 20432:21

municipality 20436:14murder 20257:14

20318:20 20405:5,2020430:20 20431:7,1420433:22 20434:320436:4

murdered 20418:22murderous 20251:7

20318:18murders 20432:22muster 20402:7myn 20389:15

Nnaaste 20276:20naby 20399:17nadat 20247:10

20305:14 20312:1620316:5 20423:18

nader 20302:2420367:16 20375:320396:1

naderbeweeg 20424:13nadergaan 20249:2name 20265:3national 20265:18

20311:4natural 20246:5natuurlike 20247:7navraag 20254:18near 20242:4,14

20243:8 20306:320312:13 20324:5

nearest 20276:19necessary 20291:4

20342:8 20344:820347:3 20358:1120361:14 20428:13

necessitated 20326:3nee 20242:6,20 20243:4

20243:11 20245:4,920254:15 20260:320261:15 20262:320264:12 20266:1420268:3,19 20272:2220274:14 20276:220278:6 20281:1620285:18 20291:720292:8 20293:320298:9,13,18,19,2220299:17,2320310:15 20324:1720324:18 20326:2120329:18 20333:1320344:1 20345:1020346:17,1720348:11 20350:11



Page 14

20351:4,7 20365:1420370:24 20373:1620374:19 20382:2020387:9 20388:2120390:22 20392:1120393:12 20395:2120397:5 20399:720402:22 20404:1720405:7 20406:120417:5,15 20418:2320418:23 20419:820421:9 20423:1620425:15 20430:220431:19

need 20259:1420260:18 20294:120305:10,1120343:16,19 20401:220423:2,3,5 20425:1920436:9

needed 20382:14Needless 20345:18neem 20278:11

20285:9neer 20324:9 20327:2,7neergelê 20314:4

20326:24neergesit 20420:8neerkom 20257:19neerlê 20327:9neersit 20305:17negative 20333:6negotiation 20265:9

20273:1neither 20292:4

20317:7neutral 20263:9,17

20264:4,10,18,21,2520265:10,11,13,15,1520265:23,2520266:14,1820267:21 20268:2220268:24 20269:1420269:17,20,20,2320270:2,25 20393:2

neutrale 20266:20,2320266:24,25 20267:520267:8,13,1520270:10,1320272:10,13,1620273:10 20274:1620274:20,2120275:11 20304:2520305:5

never 20242:2320243:17 20251:820261:25 20322:2420335:12 20345:1520359:4 20360:2220417:21 20427:6

nevertheless 20407:22new 20292:22newspaper 20342:11

20347:17Ngalwana 20428:14nicely 20380:6

Niemand 20327:8niks 20255:1 20343:6

20348:17 20426:1720430:6

nine 20403:7,920436:12 20438:15

nitpicking 20244:12NIU 20324:15 20338:8

20343:20Nkaneng 20271:10,16

20271:20 20272:1420287:10 20288:420314:20 20315:9,2320316:1,15,20,21,2520317:4,19,2520318:3,20 20319:1220319:15,1920320:20,23,2520321:12,1720323:18,19,2120326:25 20328:1720330:11 20332:7,1520332:16 20333:1220333:18,20 20334:120335:11,18,1920408:8 20409:2,1420409:22 20411:1020411:17,18,1920412:3,5,5,2520413:6,11 20414:320415:12,1720419:24 20420:1020420:18,2420421:14,18,19,21

nodig 20312:1920350:24 20366:18

nodige 20256:1noem 20374:15nog 20242:7 20247:4

20248:23 20256:120274:22 20275:1220276:3 20285:8,920288:13 20294:1620295:22 20296:1220296:15,16 20300:720301:23,2520311:12 20316:920330:14 20343:1020345:6,8 20366:1320367:15 20370:8,1120388:24 20393:1220399:9 20419:1020432:7

nogal 20415:2320421:17

Noki 20317:2,1620319:25 20320:3,4

non 20274:1 20294:1920376:2,7,9,2420377:9,24 20379:7,820379:14,18 20380:720380:10,17 20381:720381:23 20382:820392:3

non-lethal 20386:12,1720392:6

nooit 20246:24 20247:420248:24 20312:2120330:4,16 20333:520343:10 20345:6,820371:17 20387:920396:20

noord 20267:3,3Noordwes 20267:4noordwestelike

20324:25 20330:6noord-oostelike

20413:10noord-westekant

20272:16noord-westelike

20271:20normal 20288:2

20431:12north 20257:13

20265:20 20295:2420300:21

northerly 20333:18northern 20335:19northwards 20301:4north-westerly

20333:19 20334:1north-western 20306:3

20306:15note 20438:14noteworthy 20323:7noticed 20354:2,16

20359:20notion 20263:16

20396:13nou 20243:5 20256:10

20258:22 20272:1020283:16 20286:620287:2 20289:820290:2 20291:1220296:1 20300:920305:4 20313:820316:6,7 20319:2,2220319:23 20325:1820342:5 20348:12,2020349:2 20350:1920366:10 20370:2320371:19 20374:1220379:21 20380:1920380:19,2520387:12,1320390:23 20410:1420415:6 20423:1620426:15 20431:2120431:23

November 20408:22,2420417:13

no-holds-barred20253:18

number 20262:12,2220265:16 20354:1620359:20 20384:1720399:25

nuut 20345:2Nyala 20276:8,10,12,14

20276:15,19,2320277:2 20278:4,10

20278:11,16 20279:520286:23 20288:120289:9,19,21,22,2320289:23 20290:4,720291:12,14 20294:620294:24 20296:1520297:4 20301:2420302:22 20318:2,420320:11 20323:420327:24 20328:1220362:10,12,2120370:11 20375:1520378:13,14,2020381:16 20393:6,620409:11,17,20,2320410:20 20412:2020412:24 20414:2,1120415:5,6,6 20420:1920420:22,2220421:11 20425:1620426:25

Nyalas 20248:2020264:5 20270:1920273:1 20274:19,2320281:17 20283:2520284:7 20286:3,2320292:16 20300:620302:23 20325:720326:4 20327:22,2320362:9 20365:2420366:14 20367:220368:4,17,2520369:3 20377:2520381:8 20388:120390:8 20391:1420393:17 20399:1120416:18 20423:1020423:17 20424:1,220425:17 20426:1320432:1

Nyala1 20279:18,2220280:18

Nyala3 20378:24Nyala5 20415:1Nyala6 20276:21nêrens 20388:22

Ooath 20241:3 20309:16

20372:11 20407:2,3obedience 20326:14obeyed 20356:1

20361:23object 20255:24objection 20337:1,4,5

20359:9,12,12objections 20359:9objective 20251:3,15

20350:3observed 20287:9

20354:2 20362:22obtained 20412:13obtuse 20307:25

20308:3obvious 20254:7

20261:5 20270:17

20284:22 20294:320377:12 20392:820431:15

obviously 20247:1620252:24 20253:1320276:1 20321:2520352:23 20369:2520371:9 20386:2120389:1 20399:24

occasion 20242:120363:18

offence 20261:1offences 20260:16offered 20356:12office 20402:14,19,21

20402:25 20403:17officer 20307:16

20425:1official 20336:14Oh 20243:24 20263:6

20298:24 20317:2120402:5

ombeweeg 20288:1720366:9

omdat 20275:1620420:13

omsigtigheid 20254:320256:1

omstandighede20244:17 20254:1620256:6 20257:2020259:2 20269:8,2320270:11 20273:1020273:13 20366:1720369:8

omtrent 20327:24onbewus 20399:13onbewustelik 20399:13once 20248:6 20258:15

20260:5,25 20269:1220285:20 20294:2520297:25 20307:720316:16 20318:220345:23 20347:1820348:6 20349:1220373:14 20384:1720391:7 20393:2120397:6 20422:14

onder 20242:1020257:21 20266:1820287:2 20290:2520342:21 20366:1720368:16 20369:720370:23 20415:8,1020426:15 20430:10

onderbreek 20288:1220341:19,20,25

onderbreking20310:16,19 20311:120311:4

onderdruk 20368:16onderhandelingsfase

20334:7onderkant 20323:20

20415:7ondersoek 20342:20



Page 15

ondersteun 20328:13ondersteuning

20341:10ondervinding 20247:3

20247:8 20250:11,1320318:25 20319:4,2120350:16,2220389:17,23

ondervra 20365:20ones 20284:9 20313:14

20409:2,13,2220411:9

ongeag 20252:18ongeluk 20350:19onkant 20288:11onlustevoorval

20248:19onmoontlik 20299:18

20381:15,1820389:11,1320432:12,16

onpartydig 20252:1920253:10

onseker 20412:17onthou 20267:9

20270:10 20279:2120310:8,8 20330:520336:8 20342:1220409:18 20419:820424:5 20426:7

ontken 20250:1020387:10 20388:2120390:17 20399:9

ontwapen 20327:4ontwapening 20425:23onverwagte 20332:10onwettig 20261:18oog 20388:10oogpunt 20398:5ook 20243:23 20247:9

20247:21 20259:220266:17 20269:420271:7 20272:1520273:16 20288:1620290:1,1,3,620291:24 20296:220311:15,1920313:10 20314:320325:1 20327:520331:20,2120339:11 20341:1520343:12 20350:1320356:3 20369:1120377:20 20382:2120388:12,1320391:18 20404:2220414:25 20416:720420:9 20424:320429:13

oop 20267:2 20273:220274:22 20320:2520328:12

oor 20244:17 20247:820283:18 20288:2520290:7,20 20292:1820324:18 20339:7,7

20342:12 20345:420359:17 20365:2120371:21 20390:1420391:18 20394:320405:7 20406:420415:1 20423:20

oordra 20291:16ooreenkoms 20327:10oorgebly 20305:16oorgedra 20343:2oorgegaan 20273:17oostelike 20330:7opdrag 20276:3

20282:13 20296:1720301:23 20302:2320332:9,11 20333:520356:3 20360:1420366:1,11,2520367:17 20371:1820375:5,18 20376:1320378:21,2420381:14 20388:2220389:13 20393:720396:2 20397:3,2120399:12,1920405:13 20419:1320420:12,1520421:11 20424:420426:10,1420431:22,25 20432:220432:4,5,11,16

opdragte 20365:22,2320374:14,16,1820375:15,1720376:13,15 20377:420377:17 20379:2020380:22 20381:1720382:9,10 20388:1220390:15 20391:1520393:16 20430:520432:4,9,9

open 20318:4openbare 20248:20

20250:7 20303:1820305:19 20325:620327:20 20328:2120350:21 20389:1820389:23

opening 20304:8openly 20342:6operasie 20243:12

20246:21 20275:1520330:20 20334:2520375:4

operasioneel 20365:17operasionele 20270:12

20270:13 20275:1420319:4 20346:18,1920424:4 20426:1020430:2

operation 20242:13,2220243:2,3,9,10,10,1820259:25 20292:1220307:5 20323:920333:10,25 20354:520358:18 20360:17

20360:20 20362:1620362:17 20363:8,1920363:25 20364:2,4,520364:9,15,17,2020367:8,11 20390:6

operational 20265:720306:22 20347:8

operationally 20373:25operations 20307:11

20329:15opgebreek 20425:22opgedaag 20344:3opgehou 20341:23opgekom 20263:19opgeleide 20350:15opgesom 20392:12opgesplit 20424:12opgetree 20366:25

20374:18 20388:24opgevolg 20296:13

20303:5 20327:22,2320378:19 20379:1920380:21 20381:12

opgevorm 20423:18opinion 20351:13opleiding 20250:7,8

20404:19opmerking 20394:3opportunity 20285:22

20285:23 20286:1520286:17 20343:1520346:3 20393:320438:5

oppose 20337:3opposed 20257:14

20335:10 20415:2020420:20

opposite 20247:1820322:4

opsies 20289:14opsigte 20332:10opskrif 20396:19

20404:18optel 20249:4option 20296:20

20297:2optrede 20360:14

20362:17,2520371:20 20430:4

optree 20356:4opvolg 20283:21

20284:13 20329:920334:25 20380:22

opvolgaksie 20285:820423:10

opvolgaksies 20327:5orange 20323:3orde 20248:20 20250:7

20253:8 20303:1820305:19 20325:620327:20 20328:2220350:21 20382:1020389:18,23

order 20245:1820252:21,2320253:14,18,19

20254:2 20280:16,1920280:19,2420303:19 20341:220354:9,18 20355:520355:12 20358:1820358:20,2320360:16,17 20361:620362:10 20363:1220367:8,11 20368:320372:21 20373:120426:24

ordered 20358:15ordinary 20283:1originally 20311:24

20312:4other’s 20417:10ou 20388:6ouens 20254:22

20342:17 20345:120348:24 20371:19

ought 20250:1620309:22

outomaties 20273:2020324:20

outside 20426:25overhang 20394:10overheard 20292:4overview 20400:20owed 20287:22o’clock 20369:22

20436:13 20438:15o'clock 20265:8

Ppaar 20312:20,23pack 20428:10,13pad 20271:21 20319:5page 20330:23

20331:12,12 20384:720384:18,1920394:13,13,1720400:1,22 20408:2120408:25,25

panga 20424:2120425:11

Papa 20273:1 20281:1720284:7 20286:3,2320365:24 20366:1420367:2 20368:4,1720368:25 20369:320375:15 20377:2520378:20 20381:820390:9 20399:10

papers 20337:17Pappa 20302:23

20325:7 20390:1520391:13 20393:1720423:10,17 20424:120425:20 20432:1

par 20287:15para 20362:4parade 20336:12

20344:3paragraaf 20339:11

20341:18 20387:1620387:17,18 20388:3

20388:19 20390:2420390:25

paragraph 20251:920330:22 20339:2120353:15 20358:1720360:14 20362:2520363:9 20367:520384:19 20385:920392:1

paragraphs 20346:520384:7

paragrawe 20341:24parallel 20281:19parked 20298:11,11part 20251:12,15

20252:15 20264:2520271:16 20313:420314:12 20315:1020315:24 20326:1,720335:8 20338:720344:8 20364:720377:11 20419:2,320424:22 20436:6,24

particular 20245:1820246:1 20255:1920256:9 20340:520352:24 20360:220424:20,2120427:15 20434:17

particularity 20266:5particularly 20434:11parts 20432:19partykeer 20254:21pass 20329:22 20331:6passage 20317:11

20335:3,5,2220339:23 20340:820357:21 20358:1620358:16 20363:1320375:21 20377:820416:22 20419:1820427:21

passages 20341:120384:24

passed 20262:2120278:19 20297:3

path 20320:11 20409:820409:13 20411:1420411:15 20420:1820421:1

pausing 20366:4paymaster 20252:5peace 20252:24

20404:9peaceful 20409:2

20411:9 20414:1220415:21 20416:320419:5

peacefully 20316:15,2120316:25 20318:17

people/attackers20362:15

percent 20301:14perfect 20264:8performance 20253:2permission 20268:17



Page 16

persent 20330:17person 20249:14

20250:24 20252:720255:23 20257:1420282:24 20285:1520315:10 20329:2220374:5 20381:220403:6 20424:2320426:3 20435:24

personal 20242:2220358:12,13

personally 20243:1720290:23

persone 20247:5,720248:23 20249:420250:12 20254:2020255:1 20266:1520268:2 20271:5,1920272:12,14,1520276:11,25 20277:120277:8,10 20286:620286:23 20287:320288:12,17,18,2120291:24 20296:1220298:23 20299:6,1520305:15,1620310:18 20312:1720312:21,23,2520316:10 20319:520323:17,19,19,2120324:7,9,18,20,2520326:22,25 20327:220327:6 20330:1620389:12 20391:1620409:4,10 20410:2120415:11,11 20424:120424:13 20425:1720432:1

persons 20255:2120259:11 20359:2120375:21 20435:2

persoon 20255:620257:20,21 20269:520269:7 20285:11,1120286:25 20341:2020371:18 20388:1020429:10 20430:7

persoonlik 20346:1720432:15

pertinent 20423:4,520425:20

petrol 20247:1720248:1,4,9,11

phase 20296:2020326:18 20329:7,1320330:1 20331:2

phonetically 20364:6photo 20289:16

20297:10 20353:2320354:18 20362:6,820362:18,19 20409:920410:8 20415:15

photograph 20278:1520280:25 20284:120306:15 20308:520410:17,23 20411:6

20411:8 20412:2,2320413:6

photos 20354:1420413:25,25

phrase 20259:1620264:24 20265:2520311:5 20340:2020360:15 20362:1720363:8 20364:420401:11,11

phrased 20259:1720261:4

picked 20342:1520347:22

picture 20415:23piece 20308:17pieces 20308:14

20399:3piecing 20308:9pinching 20436:4pistol 20425:4,6,12pistols 20424:24Pitsi 20281:18

20375:14 20381:9plaas 20320:18,22plaasgevind 20259:3

20289:11 20345:1plaasvind 20291:12

20315:14 20423:720425:23

place 20246:1220249:21 20260:620262:9 20269:21,2120270:18 20273:620282:2 20296:1920302:20 20307:7,820315:6 20318:2020323:6 20332:1420333:20

places 20315:2220316:20 20324:120326:18 20331:3

plain 20432:20plan 20288:12

20289:19 20292:2320294:4 20307:820310:1,1,13,16,1920310:23 20311:2,5,820311:10,13,16,17,1920311:22,23 20312:420315:7,12,2520325:14 20326:720388:5

planned 20338:420387:20

planning 20338:3plans 20281:12platform 20402:10please 20292:1 20315:3

20339:20 20342:1620347:25 20348:1520360:13 20361:220372:21 20391:220417:9 20419:1520428:23,25

pleased 20302:9

20337:4plek 20247:22

20248:18 20288:9pligte 20253:9plus 20284:7 20328:3,5pointed 20282:21

20336:24 20379:1020392:23

pointer 20293:1520297:24

pointing 20282:1points 20404:11poison 20336:13police 20243:10

20250:16,1720253:14,17,2220257:9 20259:620265:23 20268:1720277:3 20283:11,2420287:10,22 20288:420292:13,15,25,2520293:8 20294:2,2020295:11 20298:7,1120299:7,8 20303:2520303:25 20304:620308:5 20309:25,2520312:10 20316:1420316:21,24 20317:420317:6,20,23,2420318:1,2 20319:1320320:14 20321:1420336:13 20338:120340:17 20354:720363:4,5 20373:1920373:24 20379:920381:2 20387:2520396:5,6,1320400:19,1920404:18 20418:2020422:5 20430:18

policemen 20296:2320298:1,1 20353:2520354:1 20355:17

police’s 20413:18polisie 20243:12

20247:6 20252:1720253:7 20264:1620266:21 20283:2020283:21,22,2320285:12 20296:1120304:4 20306:1820319:6 20320:20,2020321:1 20336:6,6,720346:20 20374:1520404:19 20416:2520420:13,14 20432:3

polisiebeampte20343:11 20389:15

polisiebeamptes20350:15 20389:1720389:20

polisielyn 20298:1520316:11 20323:22

polisiepersoon 20394:6polisiëring 20248:21

20250:8 20303:18

20325:7 20328:2220350:22 20389:1820389:24

polite 20351:17POP 20303:2,25,25

20304:19 20305:8,1120306:2 20325:1420326:3,4 20343:120344:12 20378:1420424:19,21,23,2420425:2

portion 20314:13posisie 20273:18

20290:6,7 20328:2420343:12 20389:1120432:12

position 20250:1,2420251:16 20252:720275:12 20294:520306:3 20324:4,620365:11 20382:420438:11

positioned 20243:2520299:8

positions 20258:620296:24 20324:1320324:14

positive 20333:7possession 20251:7

20334:4,5possibilities 20301:5,6

20329:21 20417:2520417:25 20418:5

possibility 20245:2020302:19 20318:1920352:4 20418:3

possible 20300:1520331:3

possibly 20316:2020333:17 20370:1920435:15

postulation 20315:6powder 20407:20,24power 20278:17

20279:5praat 20242:10

20248:22 20266:920311:1,1,14 20314:220315:11 20319:120332:8 20341:6,2020342:24 20344:2320348:25 20349:120350:23 20366:1820371:21 20381:720390:19 20394:520409:11 20426:1420431:23

practically 20245:2420362:20

preceded 20368:2precisely 20401:22precursor 20413:19predefined 20402:10predictable 20248:3preferably 20329:24prejudice 20372:24

premature 20384:15prematurely 20280:23premeditated 20430:20

20431:14 20432:2220434:3 20436:4

premising 20318:12prentjie 20289:2

20343:4prepare 20383:3

20437:8prepared 20265:6

20372:20preparing 20436:18prepositioned 20294:6prepositioning

20296:16prescripts 20254:8

20286:13presence 20242:2

20245:7,17 20246:9present 20244:14

20340:16 20344:1820434:11

presentasie 20350:21presentation 20265:1

20266:1,20 20395:22presented 20345:14president 20337:16presies 20258:13

20279:21 20321:120328:9 20339:820341:5,7 20342:420382:8 20390:14,2420393:17,19 20416:620430:11

presiese 20283:1720327:17 20381:1720393:16 20426:1520429:11 20430:3

press 20434:9pressed 20331:24presumably 20280:20

20283:3 20294:920323:2 20365:220382:3

pretty 20400:5prevent 20245:18

20246:1,10,11,1220275:4 20332:16,2320333:11,1720335:10 20420:18

prevented 20340:6,820420:2

previous 20247:1520248:13 20363:9

previously 20401:9prima 20249:10

20396:12probably 20255:24probeer 20268:14

20343:9 20349:220350:19 20414:2520432:15

problem 20359:720438:8

proceed 20281:3



Page 17

20283:4,11 20284:1520286:18 20304:2120305:12 20314:1920315:9,23 20319:1820322:20 20326:1720372:22

proceeding 20316:2520319:12,1520321:17 20332:6,2420335:11,18 20408:8

proceedings 20241:120434:11 20435:7

process 20262:1020280:24

prohibit 20332:14prohibited 20271:17

20272:1,8,10 20274:120277:13 20278:3

projected 20315:21projection 20313:4

20315:6,10,12projections 20318:14

20318:19promise 20407:15promised 20241:23promoting 20280:23proper 20340:11

20359:5 20422:25properly 20373:4

20435:18property 20253:15propose 20357:3proposed 20408:21proposisie 20330:3proposition 20352:13

20353:10 20356:1220358:3 20364:2120365:11 20421:720433:7

propositions 20352:820433:6

prosecutions 20405:18proses 20247:10

20312:24protect 20253:14

20305:11 20343:920355:19 20356:820359:24 20361:1120361:15,15,1620362:18 20382:14

protecting 20252:23protects 20336:3protes 20415:19

20416:16,17,2420417:3,7 20420:7

protest 20414:8,1220416:2,12,2220417:4,13 20419:17

protester 20421:13protesters 20249:25

20261:12 20330:1120424:7 20426:25

protestors 20259:520266:22 20267:220268:25 20269:2,1420270:16 20274:22

20276:6 20282:1220285:25 20287:8,2220288:21,2320378:13,1520379:12

provide 20265:22provided 20325:14provoke 20246:10public 20252:23

20253:21 20268:4,5,620268:16,23 20269:120269:3 20286:25

publiek 20253:820254:5 20266:1720267:4,6 20350:18

pulled 20278:17pun 20397:7punch 20414:15,18,20punt 20281:21 20297:6

20331:9 20350:1120397:2,2 20399:2020399:22

punte 20270:9purpose 20248:11

20349:17 20380:8purposes 20251:21

20286:12 20319:1020380:8 20427:14

pursuance 20343:1420420:20

pursue 20345:2320346:2

put 20245:16 20249:2320249:24 20250:120251:24 20264:120296:7,8 20309:620310:4 20312:1220319:17 20323:1020332:4,22 20335:520335:17,20 20336:120336:19 20341:220342:8 20347:320352:8,13,1520353:10 20356:6,820358:14,16,2520365:12 20371:620375:21 20376:1920376:20 20379:5,620381:21 20383:7,2220388:25 20389:720392:18 20393:2020393:21 20397:920399:4 20400:2120404:24 20412:1220420:16 20421:720427:21 20433:6,1520435:2

puts 20383:22 20391:3putting 20248:1

20250:23 20268:1520321:16 20340:9,1520340:19 20351:1220357:1 20358:8,920360:3 20364:2120379:14 20391:320396:15 20433:13

20434:5pyl 20415:10

Qqualified 20393:1qualifies 20310:12qualify 20286:13quarrel 20287:11

20322:14 20374:420383:2

quarter 20406:2020412:22 20438:2

questioning 20251:2120310:6

questions 20259:1620262:2 20275:420367:4,10 20368:24

quick 20378:4quickly 20302:16quietly 20384:23quite 20249:24

20265:25 20280:1020300:22 20308:9,1320318:11 20321:2320352:21 20365:120384:2 20417:2120435:5

quotation 20419:3quote 20317:7Q2 20382:25

Rraak 20273:20 20286:4

20287:3 20346:1720374:12,13 20375:220375:4,6 20376:1220424:11,14

radio 20291:2320292:4 20385:720388:7 20390:7,1420422:4

raise 20369:2420372:14

raised 20373:1020401:4 20410:1820424:21

raises 20359:11Ramatlabama 20242:8

20242:16 20243:8ran 20354:14range 20350:16

20370:4rapid 20265:22rare 20244:15rate 20406:13reached 20271:25

20378:14react 20273:24

20313:18reaction 20265:17

20431:12read 20337:17 20338:4

20339:23 20340:520353:16 20359:1,2,220359:16,16 20363:220364:8 20384:23

20413:22 20417:12reading 20297:18

20348:5 20401:8ready 20299:11

20303:11reageer 20315:17realise 20246:3

20263:25 20408:22realised 20306:1

20354:8 20355:1820363:11 20365:5

really 20243:320244:12 20246:820295:1,3 20300:1220309:23 20311:2220312:3 20315:2020323:8 20335:1720351:25 20358:620382:13,1920398:19 20413:1920415:18 20434:9

reason 20256:920258:10 20287:6,1220294:11,1220297:23 20300:1320311:23 20317:320329:15 20346:2520429:21 20433:24

reasonable 20249:1420250:25 20251:1,1420251:16,18 20252:620252:13 20260:6

reasonableness20250:23 20252:4

reasonably 20249:1720250:16 20405:3

reasons 20287:1220312:3 20317:1920321:14 20425:9

rebut 20341:2recall 20389:3received 20305:24

20437:17recollection 20249:23

20335:7,16 20426:1920426:23

recommend 20405:1520405:19

recommendations20405:17

reconcile 20393:3reconstructed 20265:5record 20308:17

20345:5recovered 20329:6rede 20284:22redes 20311:19

20405:8 20431:21reeds 20243:1 20316:6

20344:5 20374:24refer 20341:2 20352:14

20378:9 20383:1720408:14 20417:13

reference 20249:1720250:3 20337:1220376:18,20 20378:4

20400:23 20401:1620405:16 20408:1220411:6 20427:7

references 20265:24referred 20258:3

20265:15 20271:1520339:4 20346:520357:20,2420383:12 20395:520410:8 20423:23

referring 20271:920283:24 20340:820363:25 20364:1,320367:5 20375:2220383:11 20385:1120389:6 20411:7,1820413:24 20423:1320423:24 20427:16

refers 20331:1220383:12,1820395:17 20403:9

reformulate 20294:13refrain 20309:24refuge 20325:16refuse 20312:11

20313:6refused 20324:4,13refute 20350:8

20364:23reg 20253:9,10

20272:18 20292:1920301:21 20304:320323:15 20329:820333:1 20366:1020380:19,2520392:11 20409:1820420:6

regard 20434:10regarding 20336:2regrouped 20353:19,21

20363:3 20367:2320370:15

regs 20290:10regspan 20349:2regte 20268:13

20277:15,20,2220322:11 20327:120424:4

regter 20409:1620410:21 20415:7

regterkant 20420:1020421:21

regtig 20264:2220402:16 20415:3

reguit 20323:2220380:24 20420:13

regverdigheid 20339:9reinforce 20323:25reinforces 20331:4

20347:16 20348:520364:8

rekord 20275:1020320:18,22 20345:820355:8 20366:1620374:24 20392:1520418:25 20430:10



Page 18

relate 20344:8relates 20311:22

20376:9relation 20258:7

20277:25 20297:1,320346:5 20393:22

relevant 20259:1520372:19

relies 20340:20rely 20437:18 20438:3remain 20312:13

20314:9,10,1220322:4

remained 20270:520314:11 20334:5

remains 20321:10remember 20241:21

20242:3 20308:920310:6 20316:2520330:1 20336:3,420337:23 20344:1220352:12 20367:1220370:3 20379:320408:5,8,1620419:20 20422:1,7

remind 20241:2520242:4 20367:6

reminded 20317:120435:25

reminding 20353:3remove 20255:23repeat 20321:9repeated 20354:11

20355:25 20358:2120361:22 20363:1220365:3,6 20370:1820385:13,25 20391:4

repeatedly 20390:1020391:6,7,17

repeating 20321:4repelling 20425:8replace 20248:1report 20323:8

20433:24 20434:4,1320434:13

reported 20432:20reporting 20434:10

20435:15represent 20254:9representatives

20435:17represented 20264:4reprimanded 20428:15request 20412:15

20432:18requested 20387:19require 20308:17required 20382:2

20436:13res 20405:10 20418:25reserwe 20267:11residence 20331:3resistance 20305:18

20325:24respect 20296:19

20310:24 20311:7

20361:14 20415:14respects 20310:23respek 20274:15

20346:21respond 20245:16

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20420:25restrict 20259:20

20332:15restricted 20268:9rests 20435:3resume 20369:23

20372:5,5resumes 20241:2

20309:14,15 20372:920372:10 20406:2520407:2

retreat 20326:3retreated 20325:16retrieve 20331:2retrieved 20331:7

20342:10 20347:6,11reviewing 20436:19reël 20258:21rhetorical 20347:4ridiculous 20351:8,13

20393:25 20394:820429:7

ridiculously 20399:6,8rifle 20395:5 20424:25

20425:1right 20258:12 20282:1

20283:5 20286:1820300:22 20301:1320304:2,22 20308:1320325:13 20334:1520335:21 20346:2320367:3 20377:10,1020381:22 20385:520394:12 20411:1520411:20 20428:2020429:5

rightly 20355:24rigting 20257:23

20271:20 20273:2020277:9 20296:1320301:19 20320:1920324:25 20326:2420330:6,7 20413:9,1020421:16,19

riverbed 20423:1120427:6

rivierbedding20423:19

road 20271:10,15,23,2520272:5,7 20275:2020276:8,14 20285:2420287:9,11,14,16,2320288:3 20318:320409:8,21 20411:9

rol 20254:17rolled 20242:2rolling 20244:13

20245:6rollout 20242:24

20243:18 20278:16rolspelers 20246:23rondom 20254:16

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20320:12 20407:2220408:3 20421:24

rounding 20241:24rounds 20395:8

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20378:15,2520379:12 20380:1120381:3,11,1320392:24 20425:820427:1

rule 20256:8 20258:1120359:9 20363:2420365:15

rules 20253:20 20353:320353:6

run 20248:7 20317:1820317:23 20320:8

running 20276:2320277:4,4,5 20278:420411:23,24,2520413:12,15 20423:320425:19,25 20426:520429:24 20430:1620431:15

rush 20246:11ry 20269:6 20278:23

20419:12rêrig 20397:3R5 20342:7 20347:1,2

20395:5,14,17R5s 20398:10,11

20399:2

Ssaak 20252:18 20416:9saam 20245:9 20254:25

20256:17 20258:2320274:6,8,2420288:24 20293:320295:22 20296:1420300:11 20330:1520333:3 20338:1820345:2,10 20350:1220371:14 20373:1620377:19 20391:1220392:13,1520393:14 20394:220411:3

saamgestem 20331:920391:13

saamgevat 20393:16safe 20264:13,18

20266:15 20267:21

20267:25 20268:1720268:19,2220272:11,21,22,2520273:5,8,1220274:23,2420281:13 20282:9,920329:14 20331:6

safety 20326:4sake 20406:13samewerking 20343:7

20348:22SANDF 20243:9SAPS 20252:8,15

20254:12 20277:2520278:1,1,2 20309:2520385:7 20388:720438:4

satisfied 20311:820359:12

satisfy 20359:2,5,14saved 20289:5saw 20255:22 20256:19

20354:13 20397:16says 20261:20 20278:1

20316:15 20317:1720319:9,14 20321:1620322:23,2320330:24 20337:1020337:16 20340:1520340:20,2220351:13 20353:1520353:18 20355:4,920355:16 20359:3,1520360:13,17 20367:620378:12 20379:7,1120383:6 20385:6,1120385:18,23,2420386:19 20387:1,520390:5 20391:4,620395:15 20414:120419:4 20434:21,23

SC 20250:15 20272:2,520278:14 20280:520293:12 20335:1220336:21,2420339:15 20340:320345:13 20352:720356:11,15 20358:220414:4,15 20417:1920426:21 20427:420432:18

scene 20244:120255:19,2020256:22 20257:1220258:4,8 20260:120273:25 20312:2,220323:5 20342:9,1020347:5,5,10 20352:620352:10 20354:1520354:16 20359:2020363:20 20397:1020399:17 20405:2020405:22 20427:1320427:13,13

schooling 20343:1820344:16 20347:19

Scott 20290:25 20291:320305:25 20330:2320389:21,2220390:14,2020391:10 20392:1,2220393:14

Scott’s 20390:220391:3

screen 20394:15,22,2220394:24

se 20250:8 20290:720350:22 20366:2020377:2 20378:2420388:13,2020398:22 20399:1720400:9 20421:18

search 20326:1820329:15 20330:1320334:9

second 20294:2320337:9 20342:820345:23 20346:420347:3 20363:1820364:19 20368:2120368:21 20369:220378:12 20399:2520418:1,8,9 20419:3

secondly 20349:20seconds 20280:9

20287:18 20364:1220364:16,1820397:24 20398:8,920427:8

secret 20342:3section 20312:11

20400:22see 20245:15 20246:2

20250:20 20256:720274:11 20275:2220276:18,2220280:18,25 20291:420294:5 20295:420296:25 20298:1,2020302:14 20307:1920321:25 20322:1,620340:24 20357:520360:2 20361:720369:21 20372:1320374:7 20384:1820387:4,22 20394:820394:10,18,2520399:23 20400:1320400:20 20401:4,820403:15 20407:1820410:17 20412:2020412:23 20414:1,1820417:10 20431:4

seek 20245:2120360:13

seemingly 20308:5seen 20242:23

20255:12 20284:2520294:24 20323:2

seer 20291:24 20343:11seker 20252:10

20254:19 20257:3



Page 19

20277:21 20279:2420292:18 20322:1120334:7 20365:15,2020380:19,2320393:13 20410:5,520410:12,20 20411:320411:12 20420:6

sekere 20255:8 20270:920270:24 20381:12

sekerheid 20286:7sekerlik 20253:8

20291:24 20343:11sekondes 20289:11seksie 20327:24sekuriteitsbeampte

20389:14self 20260:12,19,22

20261:3 20266:2320314:2 20319:2220336:16,18 20338:620338:11,12,2320339:2 20340:120341:11,12,1420343:21 20344:1520344:17 20356:720360:10 20374:1720405:13

selfs 20279:22,2320330:7 20333:320432:13

selfverdediging20366:25 20388:23

self-defence 20430:1820431:11 20433:2120433:21 20434:1,2

sell 20431:9semantic 20429:18semantics 20386:10Semenya 20250:15

20262:21 20272:2,520293:12,19 20295:720335:12,21,2220336:19,21,2420339:15 20340:320345:13,16,19,2220346:1 20349:1320350:7 20351:1620352:7,22 20356:1120356:15,1920357:25 20358:2,520358:12 20359:3,420372:13 20373:1120407:19,19 20408:520408:6,11 20414:420414:15,1720417:19,2420419:20 20426:2120426:22 20427:420432:18 20433:5,2220435:12 20436:1

Semenya’s 20294:1120353:11 20356:17

send 20396:10sense 20256:17,19,19

20257:12 20268:1620315:20 20327:13

20332:13 20359:13sensible 20246:8

20316:19sentence 20340:4

20345:18 20359:1520359:16 20385:1620422:24

sentences 20359:220362:4

separately 20349:20sequence 20356:6sequences 20364:22serious 20371:3

20401:19seriously 20352:8service 20400:20

20403:18sessies 20250:9settlement 20265:21shape 20266:10shared 20292:23shifting 20275:5shoe 20273:6 20436:4shoot 20286:19

20358:15,2320360:16 20361:1620371:13 20373:1520377:15 20399:220401:23,2420402:20 20422:2220422:22,25 20423:320423:5 20424:2320425:6,11,19,2420426:4,24,2520431:13

shooting 20352:1020357:24 20360:2020363:20 20369:1420371:8,11 20373:2320374:4 20375:2520376:1,8 20377:1320383:2 20385:13,1720385:18,20,22,2520387:6 20389:6,820395:2,18 20396:4,520396:8,10,14,1920398:17 20401:2

shoots 20403:6short 20241:24

20251:23 20310:2220336:10 20346:120428:7 20438:6

shorthand 20254:9shortly 20369:23shot 20308:12 20342:6

20342:7 20346:2520347:1,2,2 20349:2120349:22 20350:1,120363:20 20388:820397:24 20403:220421:1

shotgun 20395:5,820402:12 20424:24

shotguns 20424:7,8,18shotist 20402:10,12,13

20402:24

shotists 20403:1720404:16

shotist/shotist 20403:5shots 20342:14 20346:9

20347:21 20348:7,920350:1,2

shout 20285:1show 20244:20

20419:20 20433:9showed 20269:19

20400:23showing 20297:13shown 20425:7side 20276:23 20277:5

20278:3 20282:1620304:1,12,1320314:18 20333:2020334:2 20353:19,2120363:3 20367:2320370:15 20409:2020409:23 20412:2320413:5 20434:22

sien 20257:23 20266:720266:9 20267:720271:4,6,19,2120277:1,1,8,9,10,1520278:7,11 20281:1920281:22 20298:420299:24 20300:920301:24 20302:2420305:5 20316:320323:17,18 20341:520341:18 20349:720355:14,21 20356:220365:16 20381:1820387:16 20388:2220393:5,7,1320395:22 20396:1,1920397:2 20400:920402:17 20403:1120410:11 20413:920415:2,5,6 20421:1620425:18 20429:1120432:3,13,17

sig 20366:22sigbaar 20405:12signs 20390:9,15

20391:5,14similar 20247:15simple 20251:18

20313:4simplify 20293:6simply 20250:25

20275:19 20307:2020317:6 20319:1320343:24 20346:1120355:23 20363:1820371:19 20382:120397:8 20414:18

sin 20270:14 20341:1920342:21 20378:2220393:8 20424:1420425:18,1820432:10

single 20301:2 20315:920329:22

sinkhuisies 20323:20sinnetjie 20348:14

20387:19Sir 20419:15sirkel 20266:13

20415:7 20416:18sit 20247:22 20248:18

20248:20 20286:2520288:9 20298:1420337:24 20348:2120381:16 20390:2320403:6

sitrap 20290:3sitting 20403:19situasie 20254:22

20259:1situation 20242:23

20282:15 20322:2,520325:14,1720329:24,2420382:13 20387:2420435:10

six 20251:19 20400:4skakelpersoon

20283:14skare 20284:24skielik 20387:12skiet 20348:19

20350:23 20371:1820374:16,1920378:25 20381:1320388:23 20396:220397:4 20399:2020424:10 20431:2220432:2

skietvoorval 20399:18skilde 20248:21skool 20350:25skoon 20345:7skoot 20350:18skreeu 20248:25skrif 20348:21

20418:25skryf 20355:22sleg 20296:1slegs 20302:23 20325:6

20333:5slide 20264:25 20265:4

20265:16 20274:3,1220275:22 20295:420296:25 20321:2320323:3 20378:4,920394:9 20402:1020412:11,19 20415:220415:4

slides 20266:420410:24

slightly 20279:5slip 20418:2,10,18,21slips 20431:4sluit 20313:25small 20291:5snaaks 20255:1sodat 20425:21sodoende 20349:11

20420:14

sodra 20303:1720375:3

soek 20348:1420380:25

sole 20357:1som 20342:18somebody 20291:3

20374:1sommer 20252:25sonder 20366:16

20381:13soontoe 20269:4,6

20270:23 20420:12soos 20242:18

20243:12 20255:620257:18,2320261:16 20266:1320266:22 20267:2220269:16 20271:320272:23 20283:2120284:12 20285:1020290:8 20305:1920310:21 20311:1320311:13 20312:2020319:23 20320:1920325:3 20343:220348:16,1820365:14,1620368:17 20374:1020375:17 20376:1020377:17 20378:2220378:23 20388:420390:13 20391:1520392:12 20396:2220399:19 20400:1620402:17 20419:1020429:11,13 20430:820430:11,12

sorry 20247:2420249:22 20257:420263:15,2520264:23 20269:2520280:20,2320284:14 20286:820289:16 20296:620298:20 20308:2520316:12 20330:2320331:22 20337:9,920339:2,12 20356:7,720361:4 20366:320370:25 20375:2020383:5 20394:1020404:10 20408:2120410:7 20416:1020426:5,22 20428:2120436:22

sort 20253:18sorts 20361:17sounded 20390:11sounds 20319:8south 20242:14

20252:5 20300:2120400:19

southwards 20301:4sover 20263:22

20431:21



Page 20

Sovêr 20374:17so-called 20313:5

20316:17 20332:620333:11 20335:10

sparked 20309:23sparse 20435:15spasie 20267:2

20421:20speak 20285:22

20343:17 20368:1020374:9

speaking 20426:4spears 20248:2,11special 20256:8specialised 20400:20

20404:13specific 20318:9

20332:5,17 20381:2320382:2 20384:2420385:14 20386:1,620386:25 20392:320408:7

specifically 20270:1920312:12 20335:8,2020339:25 20373:1020385:16

speeches 20340:16speel 20254:16

20274:15spekulasie 20243:14spell 20343:17Spesiale 20389:23spesialiseerde

20404:22spesifiek 20367:17

20371:21 20416:1320426:17

spesifieke 20342:2220374:14,1520376:15 20382:10

spoke 20293:220307:19 20415:16

spontaneous 20431:12spot 20304:10spray 20391:19

20422:19sprays 20422:20squatter 20354:14staan 20255:1

20266:11 20269:1020281:24 20344:2120378:23 20388:2420390:24 20396:2120406:3 20415:8

Staande 20254:120382:10

stadium 20242:9,1120243:13 20246:2120246:25 20269:1520272:12 20277:2220278:13 20279:2220282:13 20285:5,920287:3 20288:1620299:17 20301:2420301:25 20303:3,2120330:19 20332:19

20334:18 20349:420368:5,6 20375:1820398:4 20399:1420426:9,12 20432:5

stage 20251:1020277:24 20278:2020280:25 20285:220306:24 20307:1,2,420307:5 20316:1620321:23 20332:2120333:2 20338:220362:14 20371:2520387:22 20389:420405:21 20435:2020437:2

stand 20319:320382:16

standaard 20404:19standard 20254:12

20255:11 20257:820434:10

standards 20252:720254:9 20260:7

standing 20282:1620299:10,1120300:24 20301:8

stappe 20377:17start 20251:4 20278:15

20323:10 20362:5,520384:22

started 20279:1,15,1820292:12 20334:1520345:17 20385:1420386:1

starter 20294:20starting 20298:2

20337:15 20353:17statement 20251:10

20330:23 20336:1220348:25 20357:9,1220367:6 20374:820383:13 20384:1820390:2 20398:18

statements 20286:1020383:14,15,18

static 20278:16staties 20278:11

20370:8statiese 20273:18station 20278:18

20279:6stay 20313:20 20316:19

20319:13,1720321:20 20322:18

steeds 20256:120294:17 20295:2220296:12,1520366:13 20388:2420399:10

steek 20343:6 20348:18stel 20423:21 20430:8stelling 20323:15

20421:3stellings 20394:3stem 20245:10

20254:25 20256:17

20258:23 20274:6,820293:3 20295:2220296:14 20300:1020330:15 20333:320338:18 20345:2,1020350:11 20371:1420373:16 20392:1520393:14 20394:220411:3

stems 20379:10step 20289:17steps 20292:3,5STF 20344:11

20404:15,21stick 20340:18 20416:1stifle 20435:13stilgesit 20301:25

20302:22 20324:22stilsit 20324:23stones 20248:10stop 20241:23 20246:4

20286:18,19 20294:920294:22 20333:2120340:14 20396:920420:24

stopped 20320:1220352:24 20420:1

stopping 20335:1820353:2

storie 20349:3storm 20246:25story 20340:23

20344:10,15 20392:6straight 20267:19

20273:23 20317:3strained 20422:24street 20396:10strek 20431:22strekking 20339:8

20371:15strictly 20406:20striker 20424:20

20425:3,10 20426:4,4strikers 20250:17

20259:5,25 20261:2120281:1 20285:2420286:17 20313:1420322:2 20330:2520331:12 20358:1520358:23 20363:2020424:19 20425:9

striking 20402:13strong 20321:10

20351:22 20391:2320392:19

stronger 20321:10strongly 20316:23struggling 20244:24stry 20266:19 20277:8

20355:1studies 20254:18,21,24

20255:7studying 20438:6stun 20362:23 20363:1

20364:10,1120381:11 20382:19

20397:17,24subject 20382:2

20435:4subjective 20251:3,4,11subjectively 20251:4

20251:14,20subliminally 20418:21subsequent 20297:19Subsequently 20388:7substantial 20307:9substasie 20421:15,18successful 20334:13suggest 20244:25

20261:5 20344:1620377:11 20429:6

suggested 20408:12suggesting 20244:15

20293:21 20336:1420339:25 20344:1720352:22 20363:1620371:9 20373:320404:3 20433:20

suggestion 20358:2220437:10,14

suggests 20301:620369:15 20397:1520397:22 20401:1720414:10 20415:18

suide 20421:16suitable 20371:25

20435:20suiwer 20325:18sulke 20349:3 20382:10sum 20414:21summarise 20346:7

20368:23summarised 20317:9summary 20326:19

20414:19support 20337:5suppose 20337:19

20349:22 20356:720362:13 20413:2420421:8

supposed 20268:620281:12,14 20282:420285:2 20298:2420308:7 20312:120394:18

supposedly 20356:7sure 20259:14,15

20269:13 20271:2420291:1 20329:220351:14 20353:820361:11 20368:2320381:22 20383:1820408:16 20413:2220434:12 20437:1220437:24 20438:3

surely 20248:8 20259:720300:15 20307:1420307:21 20360:2420424:23 20425:4,6

surprise 20265:22surprised 20403:22surrender 20251:9,11

20354:3suspect 20396:11,11suspense 20384:3sustain 20433:7swart 20266:11

20272:24 20281:19sweep 20305:12,20sweeping 20325:6swept 20324:2sworn 20349:24sy 20261:17 20262:5

20278:7,8,9 20299:1520300:6 20302:2520333:2 20342:2320346:19 20355:220366:10 20381:9,1020390:23

system 20287:120385:8 20388:7

Ttaakgroep 20267:7Taakmag 20389:23table 20403:6tables 20403:20tactical 20296:20

20297:2 20324:320325:3,5 20395:1

tafel 20250:1320345:11

take 20245:19,2120246:7 20262:1320279:12 20283:2520289:16 20292:2,520302:16 20307:7,2120309:8,12 20311:320315:6 20337:2520351:2 20357:2320358:18 20362:220371:25 20381:2420384:3,19,2320385:6 20406:14,1920410:9 20411:1820412:9 20427:2520435:21 20436:920437:2

taken 20262:920325:16 20326:520334:13 20336:2220346:11 20355:5

taktiese 20283:1920395:23

talk 20255:14,1620329:3,3 20436:3

talking 20242:1320243:8 20251:120254:9 20255:1720259:23 20270:1,120282:20 20284:1020297:17,22 20328:120357:17 20364:920367:22,2320385:16 20414:1

talks 20339:23tampering 20256:21,24

20257:11,24



Page 21

tans 20272:15target 20269:18

20396:7 20400:320422:6,6,18,18,2020422:20 20423:2,4,620425:19

targets 20395:16,2520396:12 20400:120402:11 20403:8,20

task 20265:21tea 20262:14,15,16

20302:16 20306:2120309:8,12 20360:2520406:14,2020437:12,1220438:12,12

team 20265:9,13,1420437:21 20438:4

teargas 20362:2320363:2 20364:1,1020364:12,15 20376:220378:15 20379:1220381:3 20382:1820392:24 20397:1720397:24

teatime 20437:11,15technical 20257:10

20261:11 20347:7tee 20419:9teen 20285:6 20296:14

20296:16 20324:8teengesit 20324:8teengevoel 20429:9teenoor 20333:7

20342:5 20389:1620432:11

teken 20374:11,1320375:2 20376:1120381:7,15

tell 20264:20 20291:1820293:17 20307:1720340:24 20346:8,1120346:12,1320349:24,2520400:21

telling 20291:1920433:23

tells 20438:1,7template 20400:9ten 20296:11 20302:22

20327:5 20332:1020366:20 20372:4

tensy 20278:8 20423:620424:10

tereggewys 20426:10teregwysing 20424:4term 20261:11

20263:19 20264:2120274:14 20286:920393:2

terme 20346:19terms 20251:9

20346:24 20347:720405:16

terribly 20425:8terug 20248:25

20250:7 20266:720278:11 20282:1220285:13 20291:1420367:15

teruggaan 20246:1920410:12 20411:1220414:25 20423:9

teruggegaan 20331:20teruggewees 20334:18terwyl 20300:5 20424:2

20425:16 20432:16test 20250:22 20251:3

20251:18tested 20250:23testified 20249:15testify 20374:6 20383:1

20435:8testing 20250:24thank 20241:8,21

20242:12 20247:1420251:21,22 20252:120259:22 20263:720276:17 20280:8,1020281:9,9,10 20289:320289:15 20302:5,820302:17 20306:2020308:15 20309:1,1020309:20 20339:1920353:15 20357:620372:8,15 20373:720378:16 20383:2020396:16 20402:2,820403:13 20404:820406:6,21,2420407:7,16,1820423:12 20431:220436:11 20438:13

thanks 20246:1420309:4 20402:920436:20 20437:1

Theoretically 20300:23theory 20344:17

20434:2,2there’d 20294:6there’s 20252:4

20258:2,4,9 20265:2320282:19 20294:7,2020300:23 20302:1920305:11 20317:320322:2 20352:1020353:9 20358:620360:21 20364:2520387:5 20401:1020433:17

they’d 20260:1420294:25 20306:1420334:14

they’re 20248:320288:3 20299:1220300:23,25 20301:120301:3,4 20305:2320306:1,2,3 20318:1720361:11 20372:2020428:16,16

thing 20246:5,1120252:3,9 20253:19

20264:19 20279:1620295:17 20298:2120315:7 20318:1720329:2 20346:1220349:25 20350:520372:3 20383:2320397:23 20405:2220411:22 20419:1620422:17 20428:8

things 20246:320251:16,1920264:19 20267:1920300:15 20306:420308:9 20312:520315:4 20322:1720336:11 20347:820361:18 20364:2220370:4 20373:2120376:2,7 20382:1720398:8,10 20416:2120420:19 20422:16

thinks 20351:2420356:21

third 20358:16 20367:520418:3

thought 20243:2420260:21 20264:1720292:14 20317:920321:19 20322:1420322:22 20323:920331:23 20355:2320407:22

three 20285:16,2320286:11 20300:1620348:10 20350:1,120373:14 20417:2520418:5

throw 20247:1720248:4

thrust 20401:2220429:17,19,25

Thursday 20407:10,1220436:13,18,2420437:4,11,1520438:15

tied 20287:6till 20357:7time 20260:1 20261:2

20267:19 20279:1420279:17,19 20280:620280:16 20307:9,1220318:4 20320:1320322:24 20331:1420334:3 20356:2020357:4 20362:920417:10 20435:24

timeline 20277:16times 20265:16

20277:25 20278:120285:16,2320286:11 20370:1820373:14 20385:1320385:25 20397:10

tipe 20269:4 20345:4today 20406:12

20434:12

today’s 20434:13toe 20266:17,18

20267:2 20272:1120273:17 20275:1020278:22 20279:2120279:22,22,2320282:12 20284:820285:8 20288:2320289:1 20290:1220296:14 20300:920302:24 20303:720304:25 20316:820320:20,23,2520321:2 20323:18,1920323:21,22 20325:220330:11 20331:2020333:5 20341:7,2020342:1,18,1920343:4 20349:520366:9,21 20367:1520367:17,18 20370:820371:20 20397:1220397:13 20399:2220413:11 20415:1220416:14,1820419:12,1320420:11,1420421:11,15,2120423:10 20426:1020426:13 20432:2

toegang 20267:620269:4,8

toeganklik 20415:9toegelaat 20282:11

20414:9 20416:16,19toegemaak 20267:14

20274:19 20276:4,1620370:11 20416:18

toelaat 20342:2toemaak 20415:6toesmeer 20343:10toespraak 20344:25

20349:7toespring 20374:11

20375:1 20376:1120381:7,15

tog 20279:23,2420384:14

Tokota 20331:2320378:5,8,1120392:23 20393:5

told 20258:17 20290:2220290:22 20291:320292:22 20305:7,2420308:6 20311:820339:1 20344:9

tolerance 20254:4tomorrow 20436:14,15

20438:5toneel 20256:25

20257:24 20313:2420332:8,14 20350:1820359:17

tongue 20418:2,10,2120431:5

top 20331:12

topic 20336:1 20352:2420352:25 20356:2120357:4,8,16 20433:820433:13

tot 20246:20 20274:1520275:9,23 20276:3,320282:13 20286:2520311:12 20324:2120324:22 20371:2020431:23 20432:5

totaal 20405:7totaliteit 20379:18totally 20345:21

20380:14,15,21traan 20364:18traangas 20381:11track 20345:5tragiese 20303:8trailer 20412:21trailers 20294:4training 20400:18,20

20400:22,24 20401:820401:10,2420404:12,13,13,16,1820404:18,20,21,21

transcribed 20418:5transcribers 20417:18transcript 20297:19

20408:15transcriptions

20417:20transkripsie 20418:24

20426:16translate 20359:19translation 20358:19transport 20388:1,2trauma 20254:21traumatiese 20254:22

20255:8tree 20371:20tried 20405:2tries 20425:11trokke 20281:22,22troops 20291:4

20327:11,13trouble 20270:20,22

20271:2 20396:3TRT 20266:9 20273:2

20281:21 20299:2520303:16 20305:7,2320305:23 20306:1820324:14 20325:3,820325:17 20326:420328:5,6 20338:820341:19,2420342:22 20343:2,2020366:18 20369:6,820369:14 20374:1720399:14 20404:1520427:7 20431:2320432:11

true 20241:17 20312:920420:3,3

truth 20346:8,11,12,1320349:24,25 20419:720419:25



Page 22

try 20353:16 20361:720372:6 20407:11

trying 20246:4,1220311:7 20333:1720343:17 20402:120435:13

turn 20301:11turns 20250:2tussen 20266:24,25

20267:16 20284:2320298:23

twee 20248:15,1620249:6 20250:720254:14 20286:520316:3 20322:1220328:12 20331:1920341:24 20349:520432:1

tweede 20247:1020249:2 20262:4,520316:4 20323:1620330:15 20418:620425:18

twisting 20392:7two 20245:23 20263:13

20267:18 20300:1520304:17 20307:920312:14 20313:1320329:21 20330:220338:6 20342:1420347:11 20348:7,920349:22 20354:720367:3,10 20368:2420372:5,6,7 20390:120390:21 20393:2,320395:11,12,16,2520400:2,3 20416:2120417:24 20419:2520420:3

tyd 20275:24 20277:1520277:21,22,2220283:16,17 20289:820290:17 20300:320330:9 20349:620350:10 20366:1420398:6,12 20416:7

tydens 20303:120312:20 20315:1

tye 20296:11 20302:2220366:20

type 20392:3

UUh-uh 20306:12uit 20247:3,4 20274:14

20310:18,20 20314:120315:16,1620319:20,2120328:23 20354:2520355:1 20365:25,2520366:10,11,19,24,2520367:19 20377:2320377:23 20388:1020388:10 20390:2520390:25 20398:5,520400:9 20423:8

20425:17,18 20432:120432:1

uitbeweeg 20288:2220303:5 20304:2420305:1

uiteen 20249:120289:12

uiteendryf 20310:2020334:22 20376:1320424:15 20425:21

uiteendrywing20284:23 20288:2320303:3 20305:15,1920312:24 20315:1,1420324:19 20325:1020325:19,2120326:10

uiteendrywings20350:24 20375:18

uiteengedryf 20313:120327:3 20328:21

uitgang 20306:18uitgegooi 20316:8uitgeskryf 20391:15uitgevoer 20305:15

20432:10uitklim 20424:12,13uitkom 20348:21

20387:13uitrol 20278:10

20300:6 20303:4uitvoering 20253:9unable 20300:1unacceptable 20255:2

20256:4,20 20257:1120258:20 20260:1620260:18 20261:12

uncalled 20433:620436:2

unclear 20272:2uncoil 20245:19

20246:9 20362:7uncoiled 20245:22

20249:19 20280:1720316:17 20322:2520323:8 20362:13

uncoiling 20245:17,2520246:2 20247:1120279:1 20280:24

understand 20244:2220245:2,23 20247:1420247:19 20253:1120260:23 20262:1920263:9 20267:2020268:23 20269:1320269:13 20274:320286:9 20287:1820289:17 20292:2120293:12,17,2020294:10,21 20295:720295:9,19 20308:1620311:6 20318:1220321:8 20322:1520323:12 20329:1220329:17 20340:1420342:15 20346:24

20346:24 20347:7,7,920347:23 20357:1120358:5,7,8 20368:2320374:7 20377:620380:5 20381:22,2320385:15,1820403:17 20412:1,620417:20 20424:2520426:5

understanding20253:16 20294:1120303:13 20382:5

understands 20253:1220365:10

understood 20250:1820292:24 20294:2520295:11,24 20298:820325:13 20351:1920361:22 20383:1020383:21 20427:17

undesirable 20256:820258:1

undisturbed 20281:3unfairly 20315:3unfolded 20387:24unfortunately

20262:12 20263:8ungrateful 20407:20unhelpful 20308:8,24uniforms 20248:21

20298:14,21unit 20265:18 20292:14units 20292:13

20387:19unpleasant 20428:18unprecedented

20244:14unrolling 20279:18unsafe 20304:20untruthful 20376:22unusual 20244:15,17

20245:1,7upfront 20326:13usage 20400:7

20422:23 20427:1820428:9

use 20260:25 20261:1020264:7 20277:2520279:17 20287:1420288:3 20293:1520295:9,12,1820308:14 20327:1220343:16 20349:2120356:8 20363:120365:9 20374:2120376:3 20377:920379:11 20380:9,1520380:17 20381:320385:15,17 20386:220386:6,7,12,15,2220386:25 20401:1120411:14 20420:120427:10 20428:1320429:2,21

useless 20347:20,2020348:6,9

uself 20426:11uses 20364:3 20392:22usual 20422:14usually 20248:10

20353:17utterances 20427:5uttered 20371:7,11uur 20296:11,14,16

20344:23

Vvacate 20313:6

20314:19 20318:22vacated 20315:24

20321:24 20322:6vacating 20318:20vague 20257:4 20259:7

20264:2val 20285:13 20316:11vandaar 20310:20vandag 20325:1

20343:12 20432:5,6vanwaar 20381:16variable 20270:4various 20296:24

20400:18 20425:920428:9

vas 20420:7vasstel 20277:17

20283:16 20290:17vat 20327:24 20350:10

20375:19VB 20290:19veel 20415:3vehicle 20278:19

20279:9 20282:25vehicles 20282:20,21

20283:24,2520292:25 20293:1020298:10,11 20301:220325:16 20387:25

veilig 20253:9veiliger 20283:19veiligheid 20283:14veiligheidsarea

20264:15vein 20389:2veld 20271:21 20327:6Ventersdorp 20244:3,5ver 20338:18verander 20274:16verandering 20292:9verbal 20330:25

20331:13,16verband 20255:7verdediging 20374:18verdedigingslyn

20288:9verder 20347:14

20375:19 20381:1020392:14 20397:420432:4

verdere 20255:720311:11 20348:2520378:20 20379:2020379:22 20380:22

20388:9verduidelik 20267:17

20275:1 20283:1820294:18 20326:920339:7 20341:1520342:18 20346:2120387:11 20420:7

verduideliking 20290:720312:8 20366:11

verdure 20377:16vergadering 20246:23verhinder 20333:5verhoed 20326:25verkeerd 20380:20verklaring 20288:20

20290:2,17 20348:2420388:14,2020398:22 20431:24

verklarings 20286:520349:10

verlaat 20313:24verleen 20267:8verloor 20388:10Vermaak 20290:6

20353:13,1520354:23 20356:1020358:21 20359:2520361:21,23 20365:320365:7 20366:1020367:21 20382:1420397:15 20405:2220435:8

Vermaak’s 20367:6vermoë 20381:18verseker 20330:5versigtig 20311:18

20333:1version 20277:4

20278:2 20318:1220374:4 20379:9,1320413:18 20420:1720430:18

verskil 20278:620323:22 20346:1720369:18 20389:1120393:9 20405:720406:4 20415:320418:23 20421:2220429:15 20430:1420431:20

verskillende 20254:2020381:19

versoek 20339:6versper 20319:5verstaan 20252:11

20253:4,10 20266:1320266:18 20267:520272:18 20274:520292:19 20294:1820296:13 20304:320312:7 20313:2420319:23 20329:8,1820333:2 20341:13,1420341:17 20343:420346:18,19 20366:620366:10 20377:20



Page 23

20377:24 20380:3,1920380:25 20388:4,520388:11 20389:1620389:17 20391:1020391:20 20392:1120392:13 20397:2020398:23 20399:1120399:19 20420:620421:3 20430:13

verstandhouding20303:17

versuim 20327:1vertel 20391:10,12

20430:11vertrou 20413:10verwag 20246:25

20254:5 20288:2520305:16

verwerk 20254:21verwys 20244:3,3,6

20249:6 20257:2320264:13,13 20266:820266:12,1520267:16 20272:1020272:11,11,2320284:6 20288:1920290:8 20304:2520310:17 20311:1720316:4 20320:2320329:9,10 20330:1420331:19 20333:8,2320336:5 20341:7,1120341:15,1820342:25 20366:920378:1 20379:2020387:15 20388:920390:17 20391:1120391:21 20405:1120405:13 20409:1620410:4,5 20411:320412:17 20413:2,1620415:4,10 20416:720422:8 20423:4,620424:11

vicinity 20282:520306:15

video 20282:2520285:7,10 20341:2020349:5 20405:1220422:11

videos 20255:13,1520256:20 20285:120346:11

video’s 20398:4vier 20284:7view 20252:13

20255:11 20256:2120257:7,10,1120270:16 20287:820337:16 20358:7

views 20260:18vigorous 20435:1,5vind 20347:14vinger 20290:2vinnig 20299:15

20300:7 20365:22

20414:24vinnige 20301:21vinniger 20419:12visie 20381:18visuals 20385:9voel 20253:9voer 20328:24voertuie 20266:9,24

20273:2,16,1820281:19,2120283:22,2420285:12 20288:1620298:23 20328:920365:25 20366:1220367:17,19 20368:720375:15 20377:2320381:19 20397:1320405:9 20423:2520425:16,20

voertuig 20269:620276:20 20278:8,8,920287:1 20291:10,2520378:25 20381:16

voetpad 20267:1220271:19 20320:2120413:11 20415:5,8,920421:19

volg 20303:18,2020350:20 20368:5,520406:5

volgende 20334:1920348:14

volgens 20277:1920285:13 20288:820311:19 20312:2520366:24 20382:920388:11 20432:11

volle 20348:21volledig 20375:3voluntarily 20326:13voor 20242:11

20243:13 20250:720267:1 20274:1920275:12 20276:3,1020284:22 20285:9,1220286:24,25 20287:120301:23 20302:2220316:9 20332:1820334:6 20346:1720366:14 20368:720375:17 20381:1920399:12 20419:9,920432:7

vooraf 20417:720419:11

voorbeeld 20250:9,1120381:8

voorbereide 20349:7voordat 20288:13

20348:24,2520370:11

voorgekom 20250:1020261:16

voorheen 20246:1920288:25 20392:1220394:3 20413:14

voorkant 20273:1voorkom 20255:8voorligting 20263:22

20264:22 20266:1920291:11 20300:4,720301:21 20303:1,2320311:13 20349:820369:12

voorsien 20246:2420248:17 20250:1420312:15,19 20313:220314:25 20315:1320315:13 20322:1220330:16 20395:24

voorskrifte 20254:120288:8,14

voorspoed 20241:19voorste 20301:25voortgegaan 20310:21voortspruit 20379:23voorval 20290:20

20348:18voorvalle 20322:12

20348:19 20350:24vorentoe 20274:23

20277:9 20282:1220312:24 20366:1320366:21 20367:1920368:8 20371:2020374:12 20376:1520391:19 20397:1320399:12 20423:1820423:20 20425:1620426:13

vorige 20257:1820267:13 20320:2320415:1

vorm 20247:620314:16

vra 20256:23 20266:1720339:9 20409:2520410:6,11

vraag 20247:1120252:11 20253:4,1020257:2,18 20262:4,520275:13,1620296:11 20301:1720332:19 20333:1,220420:6 20421:3,420426:2,7,8

vraagteken 20348:13vrae 20423:20vreedsaam 20303:5,5,7

20319:7 20320:18vreedsame 20303:4,6

20414:7 20416:12vroeër 20275:17

20342:25vroeëre 20278:12

20324:24vry 20406:3Vryburg 20243:6,23vrylik 20267:4 20268:3

20269:8 20272:1420312:17 20314:420316:7 20326:24

20327:9 20333:420415:12

vrylike 20269:1120274:21

vuur 20381:11vuurwapens 20341:16

20342:19 20423:5vyf 20284:7

Wwaar 20242:9,15

20247:12 20248:1620248:17,19 20249:120249:2,3,4 20264:1620266:8,10,1520267:4,6,12,1220269:9 20272:2420278:8,9 20282:620283:17 20286:520288:13,1720289:10 20290:220291:13 20305:520310:17 20311:1420311:19 20313:120320:21,23,2520329:9 20330:1420341:23 20344:120345:3 20366:10,1120366:12 20375:1320377:21,2220381:19 20389:1120390:15 20391:1620391:18,2020393:17 20395:2120395:24 20396:2120397:3,20,2120410:20,2020414:25 20419:1220420:10,1520421:21,2220423:19 20424:1120424:15 20432:12

waardeer 20241:19waargeneem 20355:1,2

20398:13waarheid 20342:24,24

20430:11waarin 20273:11,20waarmee 20273:9

20297:7 20325:7waarna 20244:2

20249:6 20266:1220267:16 20272:1120275:12 20310:1720316:4 20329:1020333:8 20334:2420341:7 20342:2520348:14 20378:120384:14 20390:1620405:11 20409:1620411:3 20413:120415:4 20416:6

waarnatoe 20270:1220274:17,1820275:14 20393:6

waarneming 20355:2

waarom 20257:20waaroor 20243:22,23

20318:24 20412:1720424:5

waarop 20242:2520243:5 20247:920344:24 20415:12

waarsku 20310:19waarskuwing 20247:2

20249:1 20286:320288:10,14,22,2320303:6 20312:16,1820312:18,2220313:23,23 20314:120316:5,6,1020318:24 20326:2320349:1

waarskuwings 20305:620314:23

waarvan 20415:1wait 20279:2waited 20278:25

20279:2waiting 20296:24

20408:4walk 20317:3,19,20,23

20317:24 20318:220320:8 20411:15,17

walked 20283:120287:24 20320:1020331:13

walking 20272:7,820274:11 20278:320317:6 20318:1720320:13 20411:1620411:16,17,19,2220412:1,2,4 20413:520413:12

wanneer 20279:2120393:18

want 20245:22 20246:120246:4,11 20251:2320262:17 20263:820267:11 20269:1220273:23 20279:1720285:25 20296:7,7,820296:14 20301:2220308:21 20315:220318:8,9 20324:1920329:2,12 20335:320335:25 20336:1020340:11 20349:1420350:10 20351:1920354:21 20356:520357:14 20364:2320367:4,10 20369:2220369:24 20371:620372:6,24 20374:7,920375:24 20376:3,2020378:8 20381:1220382:9 20385:620386:9 20389:320391:12,2320401:13,14,1520410:14 20412:1920416:13 20417:10



Page 24

20420:1 20422:1420424:1 20426:1020431:8 20432:1420436:23

wanted 20280:520316:14 20321:1220331:23 20332:1620344:14 20373:1220408:3,14 20421:2420437:8 20438:11

wants 20293:1720340:12 20357:8,1020358:13 20412:320413:3

wapen 20257:21,22wapens 20305:17

20314:3 20324:920326:23 20327:1,7,920330:14,17 20420:8

warn 20285:2220286:17

warning 20313:18,2120314:9 20330:2520331:13,16

warnings 20286:11,1420304:17 20307:920316:16 20322:1620322:17 20323:1120326:14

Warrant 20425:1wasn’t 20249:23

20270:3 20307:1,520312:4 20335:2020348:8 20372:17,1820372:19

waste 20280:1520417:10

water 20362:2220363:1 20364:120376:6 20382:1920387:21 20390:1020391:7,18 20392:2220422:20,20

watered 20420:22waterkanon 20376:14watse 20345:4 20382:9watter 20277:9,22

20279:22 20300:920332:19 20365:1620390:4 20391:1120395:21 20400:920410:3,4 20413:920416:13

way 20249:24 20251:1720255:3 20258:620261:4 20294:2020301:12 20312:1220317:24 20321:1320323:10 20326:1320332:22 20351:2220356:9 20359:1520360:22 20373:1220374:7 20375:1020381:21 20401:2320411:10,1520422:14 20436:8

weapon 20258:1020329:23

weapons 20326:1620328:16,17 20329:520329:6,25 20331:2,620331:17 20332:520334:4,5

wearing 20298:17wederkerig 20429:9week 20262:22

20290:14 20336:220407:13,1420437:13

Weens 20314:23weer 20246:19

20269:23 20271:1220312:18 20316:320330:14 20334:720346:21 20366:1120366:16 20370:2220371:23 20377:2020379:17 20380:2020384:14 20387:1720404:21 20411:1120423:9 20431:2020432:8,14

weereens 20242:1920248:15 20253:520254:16 20255:620256:5 20257:1820258:22 20322:1220333:1 20342:2020365:16 20390:1720396:19 20432:8

weergawe 20419:14weermag 20242:9weerskante 20409:11wees 20247:6 20256:1

20262:6,7 20269:520274:21 20278:1320283:19,2120285:11 20288:1020298:19 20300:5,620303:19 20305:1820305:20 20314:2220315:17 20325:920330:20 20339:1120345:10 20370:2220371:18 20376:1320376:16 20377:1620377:17 20380:2220380:23 20382:1120413:10 20429:920432:15

weet 20242:19 20250:620253:4 20254:18,2420255:6 20266:820269:5 20274:1420277:15,16,2020283:15 20289:1020296:1,1 20303:220311:15,1620312:18 20325:120330:12 20332:1920334:23 20345:3,320348:13 20349:3

20365:18 20367:1520374:14,16,1720377:2 20381:620387:9 20389:14,1520391:11 20395:2120396:23 20399:7,1620400:9 20402:2220405:8 20410:3,4,1420417:6 20431:23,2520432:3,4,6

weg 20247:7 20278:720286:6 20287:420312:22 20319:720343:6 20348:1720416:14 20421:1420421:19 20430:620432:8

wegbeweeg 20247:5,2120248:23 20278:920305:17 20312:1720313:9 20314:420324:20 20327:920330:7,9,10,1920421:18

weggeloop 20416:15weggeneem 20257:22weghardloop 20325:1

20430:8wegsteek 20348:23

20349:3weinig 20319:3wel 20246:25 20247:10

20247:12 20254:1720255:7,8 20261:1520262:6 20266:2020270:23 20271:520276:15 20277:620282:10 20283:1820286:3,5 20287:320288:8,12,15,2120291:15 20301:1720302:25 20312:2020313:2 20314:24,2520315:14,1420316:11 20323:1720323:19 20326:2220328:21,24 20330:520330:11,12,13,14,1820334:24 20341:1220343:5 20377:2020388:21 20398:520399:16 20420:1020421:11,2120425:15 20426:1220432:10

welcome 20268:5,920271:2

went 20312:2 20313:1720320:12 20321:1320322:25 20323:1,520420:25

weren’t 20260:1220261:23 20425:8

werk 20284:2420346:20 20350:1420350:17

wes 20301:18,18west 20295:15

20300:21 20304:21westelik 20300:10westelike 20296:12

20301:19westerly 20295:2western 20284:2

20304:1 20333:2020334:2

westward 20292:17,1720293:10 20299:9,2220300:25 20301:720303:12,1420306:10,23

westwards 20295:12,1420295:14 20299:1220301:9

wet 20253:8wetgewing 20254:2wettig 20262:7we’ll 20249:7 20263:7

20302:16 20309:1220323:24 20335:1520335:25 20372:520373:11 20383:1820394:8 20406:1920413:18 20417:1720421:23 20437:3

we’re 20243:7 20252:220255:17 20265:1620307:17 20316:1920328:16 20331:1420340:22 20367:420382:4 20394:13,17

we’ve 20245:2420257:25 20258:320272:7 20306:4,1420310:24 20317:1820320:7 20321:520338:4 20352:1920375:24 20420:24

whatsoever 20352:9what’s 20274:7

20315:4 20352:1520357:10 20405:2320428:1

whispering 20366:4white 20279:8

20296:25who’d 20305:24who’s 20249:22wide 20259:17wie 20285:5 20286:7

20299:16 20365:2020365:21 20393:1420397:3

wil 20254:16 20257:320275:8 20279:2420284:23 20287:220296:5 20297:720319:3 20320:18,2320321:6 20322:1020323:18 20325:320331:20 20332:1920333:22 20339:9

20341:6,18 20350:1420366:5 20380:1920387:15 20388:1120391:11 20393:1320410:3,20 20423:920432:14

willing 20251:6wire 20242:2 20243:25

20244:13 20245:6,1720245:20,22,2520246:2,6,9 20247:1220248:18 20249:1820249:20,25 20267:120279:2,18 20280:1720281:2 20293:2320294:3,4,5,7,9,2120295:18 20304:2,5,620304:21 20306:1020307:8 20316:1620322:24 20323:820362:7,7,9,13,13,2120412:21

wiser 20318:6wish 20341:1wit 20269:10 20415:10witness 20307:10

20317:13 20318:320336:22 20340:3,5,720340:12 20352:9,1720353:1,11 20358:8,920358:15,22 20361:620362:2 20364:2320365:9 20382:25,2520383:6,12 20387:5,920388:13 20414:1920427:20 20433:6,920433:15,25 20434:520434:16,18,2020435:1

witnesses 20309:25,2520428:16

wonder 20337:19,23wondering 20270:18won’t 20244:14

20279:4 20297:1920345:25 20370:320413:22 20414:2020436:15

woord 20254:1920270:14 20271:1320319:3 20327:120341:11 20377:1520377:16,19,2420379:17 20390:1720391:13 20399:1020424:10,1420432:14

woorde 20246:2120266:10 20267:1,320267:14 20268:1320269:9 20272:1320274:15,2020285:10 20305:120319:23 20339:820341:10,24 20342:420349:4 20350:25



Page 25

20365:15,24 20367:120368:8 20371:15,1720374:12 20375:220377:17,1820378:21 20379:2420380:23 20381:8,1120382:21 20387:1020387:17 20388:2120390:23 20393:1620396:1 20397:120405:8 20416:6,2520423:1 20424:520426:15 20429:1120430:3,9

woordjie 20381:6words 20242:21

20258:17 20260:120264:10 20269:2420275:20 20281:1320284:1 20286:1620292:16 20293:1020299:9 20301:820321:22 20339:120345:18 20346:1020348:8 20349:1520361:7,11,15,1820362:6 20363:2320364:6,24 20365:1,820365:9 20367:1220368:9 20370:4,4,620370:17,19 20376:220385:7,21 20386:1320388:17 20391:3,4,820392:8 20398:1620399:5 20401:1520422:23 20435:9

work 20436:15worked 20311:24working 20414:11worry 20376:20

20393:21worse 20282:16

20318:16 20351:920422:19

worth 20404:24wou 20256:10,13

20266:16 20269:4,620284:21 20310:1620348:23 20349:3

wouldn’t 20252:420261:3 20296:2520306:9 20308:2,4,1220331:5 20345:1920348:9 20372:18

written 20417:12wrong 20264:19

20317:3,18 20320:720326:12 20335:2220338:2,13 20340:2020377:11 20425:520435:16 20436:7

wrongly 20355:2420418:4

wys 20267:3 20275:1120278:8 20284:820290:2 20421:17

Yyears 20297:19

20427:11yesterday 20342:6yield 20354:3 20363:6younger 20403:23you’d 20259:8 20308:1

20369:22 20407:24you’ll 20262:23

20263:14 20376:1720383:14 20392:1720406:10,2220414:17 20438:5

you’re 20241:320245:25 20246:2,3,420246:12 20258:1220262:13 20266:420270:6,20 20274:1020278:18 20279:1320282:16 20288:120291:1 20295:1,320297:12 20300:2220308:13 20309:1620319:8,9 20321:420328:1 20338:520339:13 20340:2420341:3 20346:2320347:4 20351:1220352:13 20356:1320357:1 20364:120365:10 20367:2320372:11 20400:620405:23 20407:1,220410:8 20411:1820419:4

you’ve 20242:2320258:16 20262:120284:25 20287:1520290:14 20302:220311:8 20322:520336:19 20338:1620356:17 20359:5,1320359:13 20368:2020370:18 20376:2420399:5,6 20411:5,920413:22 20422:420437:17

Zzone 20264:13

20266:15 20273:10

0000 20251:5 20362:1409:30 20241:209:50 20254:6

11 20246:22 20247:12

20255:19,20 20260:120273:25 20276:1020278:10,11,1620279:5 20286:2320289:14 20301:2420302:22 20312:2

20323:5 20324:2320330:3 20332:9,1420332:19 20352:6,1020363:20 20369:2220370:11 20399:1720405:20,22

10 20245:19 20327:2420395:16,25 20400:220402:11

10:10 20266:2210:26 20341:1910:29 20281:2110:44 20339:10,10

20341:23 20346:610:49 20295:6100 20266:11,11

20272:24 20273:620283:2 20284:1,220339:7

100% 20338:120339:22 20343:7

11 20290:16 20384:1711ish 20290:1811:00 20292:2211:30 20267:711:34 20309:1511:54 20323:2110 20281:19 20282:18

20282:22 20298:2110% 20338:312 20289:18 20290:15

20296:11,14,1612:14 20335:1212:34 20347:2212:53 20361:213th 20354:6 20355:17

20363:1113.9 20330:22,23136 20265:9137 20265:5,12138 20265:5,14139 20265:1414:08 20372:1014:28 20384:2314:48 20398:5141 20265:1615h55 20363:515.12 20362:615.14 20362:815.15 20362:19,1915:19 20407:115:35 20278:215:39 20421:215:40 20277:15,18

20278:2,6,9,2220307:3

15:42 20300:315:42:35 20280:7,715:42:50 20280:1615:46 20362:1215:55 20354:115:56 20354:1515:58 20354:15

20359:17,2015:59 20434:181516 20353:23

1517 20354:141518 20354:19156 20408:22,2416 20364:2116th 20352:516:01 20354:1917 20364:21 20384:7,18

20384:1917440 20413:23

20414:617740 20408:15,2118 20402:12180 20320:2519 20251:919.1 20390:2 20391:1

20393:10,14191 20271:10 20274:3

20274:12 20275:2220276:18 20290:1020410:22 20412:1220412:19 20413:25

193 20413:25 20415:2,220415:5

194 20321:23 20323:3195 20264:25199 20378:9 20411:1

22 20244:19 20246:22

20247:10 20265:1720280:8 20289:1420303:22 20305:2020306:1 20311:14,2520312:2 20324:2320347:21 20370:1120414:6 20420:2120427:13

2:30 20296:1920 20427:112013 20408:242014 20241:121 20241:121ste 20432:624 20344:2325 20342:6,7 20346:25

20347:1,2,2,9262 20254:2 20382:1027 20343:10 20408:21

20408:2427th 20417:13

33 20251:5 20270:9

20273:17 20274:1820289:14 20296:1520296:20 20311:1520325:1 20333:520360:14 20362:1420366:9 20367:1820378:14 20388:920397:20 20406:20

330 20296:25

44 20251:5 20276:8,12

20276:14,15 20288:1

20289:9,14,1920318:2,4 20320:1120323:4 20370:1120378:13,14,2420393:6,6 20420:1920420:22 20421:11

4’s 20420:22400 20313:15 20328:14

20328:15 20342:1120342:15 20347:1820347:22

43 20378:4 20394:9,1544 20402:1045.40 20362:8

55 20331:2 20334:10

20342:15 20414:220415:5,6

50 20264:6 20280:920281:14,1720282:17,22

500 20347:22 20348:7,956 20384:9,19,2157 20384:21 20385:6

20387:17 20388:358 20387:16,18

20388:1959 20384:8,10,11

20385:9 20388:6

66 20265:8 20276:19,23

20277:2,5 20286:2320289:21,22 20290:420290:7 20291:1220294:24 20296:1520297:4 20326:1820329:7,9 20330:220331:2 20362:420409:11,17,20,2320410:20

77 20353:15,18 20367:574 20265:18750 20337:15

880 20264:6 20269:9,10

20327:25 20328:1807 20337:12,1382 20337:6,883 20330:24 20331:1284 20330:24 20331:12

99mm 20395:5,179:50 20341:1892 20390:5,5920 20338:6,7

Documents

RealTime Transcriptions - justice.gov.za · 15 was suggesting. At best it’s unusual and rare, correct? 16 BRIGADIER CALITZ: Ek sou nie sê 17 “unusual” nie. Dit hang af oor