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SEWARD PENINSULA SUBSISTENCE RAC MEETING 4/24/2019 2

SEWARD PENINSULA RAC MEETING

Computer Matrix, LLC 135 Christensen Dr., Ste. 2., Anch. AK 99501

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SEWARD PENINSULA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING

PUBLIC MEETING

VOLUME II

Nome Mini-Convention Center Nome, Alaska April 24, 2019 9:00 a.m.

Members Present:

Louis Green, Chairman Tom Gray Ronald Kirk Lloyd Kiyutelluk Leland Oyoumick Elmer Seetot

Regional Council Coordinator - Karen Deatherage

Recorded and transcribed by:

Computer Matrix Court Reporters, LLC 135 Christensen Drive, Suite 2 Anchorage, AK 99501 907-227-5312; [email protected]

mailto:[email protected]






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1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 (Nome, Alaska - 4/24/2019) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Good morning 9 everybody. We'll call this meeting back to order and

10 go around the room and start at the Council table -- 11 well, actually I should I ask people on the phone to 12 introduce themselves so we know who's out there. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: People on the phone. 17 18 MR. MULLIGAN: Ben Mulligan, Fish and 19 Game. 20 21 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks Ben. 22 23 Anyone one else on the phone. 24 25 (No comments) 26 27 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay, we'll go around 28 the room here and start with Ron. 29 30 MR. KIRK: Good morning. Ron Kirk, 31 Stebbins. 32 33 MR. SEETOT: Elmer Seetot, Jr., Brevig 34 Mission. 35 36 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Good morning. Louis 37 Green from Nome, Alaska. 38 39 MR. GRAY: Tom Gray from out back. 40 41 MR. KIYUTELLUK: Good morning. Lloyd 42 Kiyutelluk from Shishmaref. 43 44 MR. OYOUMICK: Leland Oyoumick from 45 Unalakleet. 46 47 (Pause) 48 49 MS. DEATHERAGE: This is Karen 50






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1 Deatherage, the Office of Subsistence Management in 2 Fairbanks. Thanks. 3 4 MS. WORKER: Good morning. It's 5 Suzanne Worker from OSM. 6 7 MR. GUSSE: Good morning. Walker Gusse 8 from Bureau of Land Management. 9

10 MS. BRAEM: Good morning. Nikki Braem, 11 Bering LandBridge National Preserve. 12 13 MS. KLOSTERMAN: Good morning. Megan 14 Klosterman from OSM. 15 16 MS. VOORHEES: Good morning. Hannah 17 Voorhees, OSM. 18 19 MR. ADKISSON: Ken Adkisson, Park 20 Service, Nome. 21 22 MS. LAVINE: Good morning. Robbin 23 LaVine with the Office of Subsistence Management. 24 25 CHAIRMAN GREEN: And Tina's over there 26 on her computer. She's busy. 27 28 REPORTER: I'm Tina, the RAC recorder. 29 30 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you everybody 31 for that introduction. 32 33 So now we go to call out to the tribal 34 governments, are there any tribal governments out there 35 on the phone that have any non-agenda items to bring to 36 the table. 37 38 (No comments) 39 40 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Are there any Native 41 organizations, ANCSA Corporations that have anything to 42 bring to the table, non-agenda items. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Hearing none, we'll 47 move on to our agency reports. Who's going to come 48 first here to the table. 49 50






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1 Nikki. 2 3 How you doing Nikki. 4 5 (Laughter) 6 7 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Floor is yours. 8 9 MS. DEATHERAGE: Did somebody just join

10 on the phone, if so could you state your name, please. 11 12 MR. PAPPAS: Yes, good morning. George 13 Pappas, OSM, Anchorage. 14 15 MS. DEATHERAGE: Thanks, George. 16 17 MR. ADKISSON: Good morning, Council 18 and Chair and Council members. Ken Adkisson, National 19 Park Service with Nikki Braem, our cultural 20 anthropologist. 21 22 I'll make this very quick since I know 23 that some of the Council members have to be thinking 24 about leaving soon. 25 26 In terms of an agency report, I'd like 27 to start by just saying that the Park Service 28 historically has taken a really serious approach to the 29 work that the RAC does. We think that's, you know, 30 highly significant and valuable and a service to the 31 local residents, and keeping with ANILCA and meeting 32 subsistence needs. Normally we have a number of our 33 Staff here that at least show up for at least some of 34 the meetings and that includes Jeanette Koelsch, our 35 Superintendent, but this week she's in Fairbanks at a 36 National Park Service, Regional Superintendent's 37 meeting. And Letty Hughes, our new Park biologist, as 38 Bill Dunker mentioned, is in Kotzebue trying to finish 39 up muskoxen composition work estimates for the Seward 40 Peninsula. So they're not able to be here. 41 42 I might say that in terms of quickly 43 what's been going on with us in terms of muskoxen 44 hunting, I think it's pretty obvious from the 45 discussions that have already come up, that the 46 populations have declined significantly, that's been 47 accompanied by significant reductions in the total 48 allowable harvest that we have and it's still a -- 49 these are still dual managed hunts. On the State side 50






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1 they're all Tier II now, unlike the past few years 2 where we had a Tier I hunt still maintained in 22E. 3 And the bulk of the permits right now are being 4 distributed through the State Tier II system with a 5 small percentage of additional permits being 6 distributed by Federal hunt managers, basically BLM and 7 Park Service. 8 9 For the 2018/19 hunt year, as far as

10 Bering LandBridge's activities, we issued two permits 11 for the Kuzitrin River drainages hunt and neither of 12 those were filled. So no reported harvest from that 13 hunt. We issued two permits for the 22E Federal hunt. 14 Those went to Shishmaref and those were filled. 15 Because the Unit 23 southwest Buckland/Deering area is 16 for biological and management purposes is treated as 17 part of the Seward Peninsula population of muskox as 18 opposed to say the animals further north like in the 19 Cape Thompson area, we issued two permits to Deering 20 and neither of those were filled. 21 22 We're not quite sure, we were hoping to 23 get the population estimate work done this year along 24 with the composition work and take a look at the 25 situation and perhaps adjust harvest rates or allowable 26 harvest limits. We didn't get the populations worked 27 on, as Bill mentioned, so, you know, but at least we 28 may get some comp work, which will help. 29 30 There is an interesting situation in 31 that. On the State side, they put out their 32 announcements for Tier II back late in the preceding 33 year, so by the time -- and they put out who was the 34 selected applicants that were selected for Tier II, 35 those are generally announced in February, and we often 36 don't have the latest population data and the results 37 from the survey work that we do until after that. So 38 in a sense that raised some interesting questions about 39 adjusting things and how things work. The other thing, 40 as I've said, you know, when the hunts first started 41 out, they were all Federal and over the years we've 42 shifted more and more through working through the 43 Muskoxen Cooperators Group into the State system. And 44 that can work for Federally-qualified users, there's a 45 good advantage to that in the sense that if you're a 46 State permittee, the Federal system will recognize that 47 permit and you can thus use it on either State or 48 Federal land which can really work to local villagers 49 where the bulk of the animals may be located, for 50






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1 example, on corporation lands surrounding the village. 2 It doesn't work the reverse though, so if you have a 3 Federal permit, you're stuck to using that only on 4 Federal lands, which in often cases you have to travel 5 further to get to from your village and so forth which 6 makes it more difficult to use. 7 8 So there was an advantage to that but I 9 think we still have some really strange things that

10 have happened through the permitting system. And where 11 we're at from the Park Service, we're at the point 12 where we use our permits to try to work out any 13 inequities that don't really work to the benefit of 14 Federal users. A rough example of this would be, say, 15 in the 23 southwest Buckland/Deering area, where maybe 16 all of the State Tier II permits wind up in Kotzebue, 17 and they're not -- Kotzebue residents for Federal 18 purposes are not Federally-eligible muskox hunters. So 19 we would use Federal permits to help balance that. 20 21 And this year, I'm not sure what we're 22 going to do, we haven't sat down with ADF&G to talk 23 about harvest quotas yet or any needed adjustments. 24 Like I said we're down on the Federal side to minimal 25 amounts of Federal permits. I did look at the Tier II 26 results for the TX104 hunt, though, which is the 27 Kuzitrin drainage area of 22D, and the Unit 22 28 remainder portion of D and the State reduced their Tier 29 II permits down from 8 the previous year to 6 this 30 year, and that's actually a combined -- if you have a 31 TX104 permit, you can use that in D remainder or in the 32 Kuzitrin area under their system. Our system, BLM 33 handles the 22D remainder on the permit and we, the 34 Park Service, handles the Kuzitrin drainage on a 35 Federal permit. 36 37 And in looking at the results of that 38 it was pretty interesting this year. Like I said the 39 State reduced their permits from 8 to 6, and 5 of those 40 permits apparently wound up in Brevig Mission, which is 41 cool for them, and one of them wound up in Kotzebue. 42 So it looks like anybody in Nome basically got shut out 43 of the Tier II system this year for those two hunts. I 44 suspect then when we put out our announcements how many 45 permits we're going to issue on the Federal side, the 46 BLM and the Park Service will probably be, you know, 47 swamped with applicants. 48 49 So that's kind of the status of where 50






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1 the muskoxen stuff is. 2 3 And I can answer any questions at some 4 point if you want to, or discuss it. 5 6 If you're going to seek kind of a 7 broader treatment of muskoxen down the road like maybe 8 next year or something, that might be a good time to 9 bring some of these issues up for some feedback.

10 11 That's all I've got and I'll turn it 12 over to Nikki to fill you in on some of our research 13 activities related to the Park, most of which relate to 14 wildlife. 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I guess Elmer has a 17 comment. Go ahead. 18 19 MR. SEETOT: Over the years regulating 20 muskox, do the muskox seem to kind of stay in a certain 21 set area now that everything's all said -- or are they 22 still moving around within the unit areas within -- 23 from Shishmaref, Wales to Brevig and Teller, and also 24 to Kuzitrin, are they pretty much set in their ways now 25 that, you know, that they have been here for a number 26 of years or are they still moving out of the area. 27 28 MR. ADKISSON: That's a really good 29 question, through the Chair, to Mr. Seetot. You heard 30 Bill talk yesterday about how some of the collared 31 animals show really, you know, significant movements. 32 We've known for a long time that muskoxen, some 33 muskoxen, you know, are travelers. One of the 34 questions I have in relation to that is, are these 35 single animals that are doing this traveling, or are 36 they traveling in any kind of social groups. So that's 37 one question, and I don't think we've answered that. 38 39 We also know, for example, that over 40 the years and doing survey work like out on the 41 Peninsula, you can go to some of the same areas every 42 year and generally find muskox. So, you know, for 43 whatever reason they're choosing those sites, whether 44 it's the same animals or different animals, I don't 45 know, but you can find muskoxen there. 46 47 (Teleconference interference - 48 participants not muted) 49 50






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1 MR. ADKISSON: A lot of that is high 2 country along -- that's windblown free -- relatively 3 free of snow, where they sort of park and stay for the 4 winter, and being on the divides often like that, maybe 5 groups might show up and one subunit one year, and 6 maybe another subunit and you've heard Bill talk about 7 that, which adds to trying to -- you know, the problems 8 trying to establish quotas in hunt areas versus a 9 larger population.

10 11 Those are all really good questions and 12 I don't think we have the answers to all of those yet. 13 14 It's a complicated situation, that's my 15 assessment of it, and we just do the best we can with 16 what we've got. 17 18 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Ken. 19 20 I guess, Nikki, it's your turn. 21 22 Good morning. 23 24 MS. BRAEM: Good morning. For the 25 record my name is Nikki Braem, I'm a cultural 26 anthropologist with Bering LandBridge National 27 Preserve. 28 29 I'll give you a brief update on some of 30 our research activities. Unfortunately Letty's not 31 here. When we last saw you in down in Unalakleet we 32 talked about two projects. One was a fish inventory, 33 we were seeking some internal funding to finally work 34 at a fish inventory, which is a very much needed, some 35 baseline data for the Park. And also a beaver trapping 36 clinic that we were trying to organize with Shishmaref. 37 38 The internal funding did not work out 39 but Letty managed to submit a proposal to OSM to do the 40 inventory work instead. And the project as designed, 41 and I'm aware of it because I dealt with it a little 42 bit from the cultural side will involve Fish and Game 43 as well as Park Federal employees. It would focus on 44 -- we can't do everything at once, right, so we try to 45 focus on some of the major drainages first in the 46 Preserve so as designed this would include the 47 Serpentine, Arctic and (Indiscernible) River which is 48 often referred to as Elaine River, locally, which is 49 actually a trib, work -- we're waiting to hear if that 50






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1 has been funded. I don't think the committee that 2 discusses proposals has met yet but I'm optimistic 3 about it, it's a really good proposal. 4 5 The clinic did not happen for some 6 internal reasons but every year before field work, the 7 research field work begins in the Preserve we hold 8 formal consultation with tribal governments of the most 9 closely associated communities and so that's happened

10 with Shishmaref and Deering, and Shishmaref said -- the 11 tribal government said they were interested in a clinic 12 still being put on so we're going to work on that for 13 the next year. 14 15 Also on the topic of beaver, a couple 16 of Park Service and a UAF researcher had interest in 17 working in BELA (ph) on some larger projects dealing 18 with the beaver range expansion across the Arctic. One 19 was not funded, that was with USGS and Ken out of 20 Fairbanks, but another one was funded with NPS' John 21 O'Donnell out of Fairbanks, so they'll be doing some 22 work with satellite imagery and probably of most 23 interest to you, they're going to be looking at fish 24 assemblages above and below known dams, because it's 25 always a question of what do they do -- what's going on 26 above and below a dammed river, so they're going to be 27 taking a look at that, also some water quality 28 measurements. And the first year of field work will be 29 this year. 30 31 What else. 32 33 Those are the big ones, I guess, from 34 the perspective of what we talked with you about 35 before. 36 37 In addition to that, you know, every 38 year during the consultation process we present all -- 39 most of the research that's happening in the Park right 40 now is internal, it's NPS long-term monitoring. And so 41 typically when we talk -- when Jeanette talks with the 42 Council, she's very interested in their concerns about 43 the impacts of research activities, particularly 44 because most of them involve aircraft, either fixed 45 wing or helicopters, and we're very much concerned with 46 not interfering, impeding, bothering people when 47 they're doing their subsistence, particularly in the 48 springtime along the coast when people are hunting, but 49 also when they're out at their camps as well. That's a 50






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1 concern on the part of the Parks. So we try to build 2 in stipulations on how they do what they do, where they 3 go and when, to minimize the impacts from the NPS 4 research. 5 6 This year there's a number of ongoing 7 water quality ones, you know, involving lakes, lagoons 8 and streams, these have been going on for quite some 9 time, so it's just continuing to build baseline.

10 11 Also some vegetation studies, looking 12 at moss and lichen. Revisiting older plots to see 13 what's going on out there with changes. Also look at 14 possibly contaminants. 15 16 There's going to be -- this isn't one 17 that is permitted by the Park, because they're not 18 landing in BELA, but Fish and Game has an aerial survey 19 of emperor geese, again, this year; it's a two year -- 20 two years of aerial surveys with some low level flights 21 so the researcher was very responsive to our concerns 22 about low level flights and avoiding areas where they 23 see subsistence users out there on the land, avoiding 24 the coast line to the extent possible, being aware of, 25 you know, seals, hunters, so they were very open to our 26 suggestions even though we didn't have -- we aren't 27 giving them permits, they're not landing in the Park, 28 they were sympathetic to our concerns about those 29 impacts. 30 31 The only other thing I would point out, 32 yesterday, when Mr. Saccheus was talking about what he 33 -- he was giving his report yesterday,of interest to 34 me, was he noted that hunters out of Elim had seen 35 birds floating and unfortunately he's not with us, I 36 was very interested because last year we had a seabird 37 die-off, which is a concern to everyone, I think. And 38 I wanted to follow up with him and find out if this was 39 a 2019 thing, like if they were already seeing 40 something out there in the water because that would be 41 the first thing I've heard of this this year. I'm 42 aware of some monitoring efforts, the Park Service had 43 a monitoring effort where they did -- they basically 44 flew along the shoreline and landed and looked for 45 samples, but they're very much interested in working 46 with communities and you've heard Brandon -- or is it 47 Austin, sorry Austin Amasuk talking about this -- Gay 48 Sheffield over at the University, there are some Park 49 Service people who are also involved and so I encourage 50






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1 you if you see anything to contact one of them because 2 we're trying to pay attention to it earlier this year. 3 4 And that's it for me. 5 6 If you have any questions. 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Nikki. A 9 question about that seabird die-off, are there any

10 indicators on why that you've seen in the past, just 11 for information. 12 13 MS. BRAEM: Yeah, the only thing I can 14 tell you is what I read in the handout, there is a 15 handout on the table talking about last year and they 16 were able to get some samples, as I understand from 17 reading it, you know, starvation appears to be one of 18 the causes. It's unclear -- a few of the birds had -- 19 you know, some level of saxitoxin, but I am not a 20 biological scientist so all I can tell you is what I 21 read on the handouts, but there is one over there that 22 talks about last year's results. 23 24 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay, thank you. 25 26 Tommy. 27 28 MR. GRAY: So I have a few comments for 29 both of you. 30 31 Beaver dams. Whoever's doing that 32 study, it would be good to make sure he's in an area, 33 number 1, that has fish in the river. 34 35 Number 2, has beaver dams in the river. 36 37 And I was sitting on a mountain top one 38 time bear hunting, glassing, looking, and I noticed 39 this creek and I counted 18 beaver dams in that creek, 40 that's the creek that we need to go look at. What kind 41 of impacts has that -- the beavers done to that fishery 42 in that creek. 43 44 Another creek, I was talking to my son 45 the other day, he took a boat -- he asked me about a 46 creek called Steamboat Slough above White Mountain and 47 wondering if I had ever -- I want to say hunted that 48 area, now the mouth of that river gets silver salmon, 49 I've never seen silver salmon up inside of that creek, 50






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1 but he went up it a couple years ago and jumped like 20 2 or 30 beaver dams trying to get up that creek to see 3 what's up in there, maybe moose hunting or something. 4 So -- and through my guiding and hunting I have seen 5 silver salmon within a mile or two of the head of a 6 creek, I mean you can't imagine where these silvers end 7 up way, way up these creeks and no water at all. And, 8 you know, we always hear that beaver dams are great for 9 silver salmon but the silvers got to get there first.

10 11 So anyway, hopefully that project -- I 12 keep hearing cooperators meeting and, Ken, you just 13 brought it up a few minutes ago. Back in the day the 14 cooperators all worked together in designing, you know, 15 where we're at with muskox. I would urge everybody to 16 have a cooperators meeting again to revisit hard 17 issues. You talk about the State being able to hunt on 18 Federal lands but Federal permits can't hunt on State 19 lands. To me that's -- there's no reason for that. You 20 know, the different permits, we have different options 21 that are good and bad to people. It's good for some 22 people to have a Federal permit. It's bad to some 23 people not -- you know, they're not eligible for it. I 24 guess the heartache that I have is we continue on and 25 there's a handful of guys deciding the destiny of the 26 muskox situation and we're not really hearing what the 27 public wants. And it's like cutting horns. The State 28 wants horns cut, the Feds don't care. You know, those 29 kind of hard issues need to be hashed out. So, again, 30 I urge, and I wish the State boys were here to hear 31 this because, you know, to me it's important that the 32 user group is involved in decisionmaking. 33 34 The last thing I want to touch on is 35 we're all caught up in this world of managing animals 36 and the elite group, I guess, I don't really want to 37 call it an elite group but, you know, the guys that 38 have hunted the longest have the best advantage of 39 getting muskox. And it's kind of unfortunate and so 40 I'm going to throw a pitch here, I think we need to 41 involve the youth. And, you know, I talked to Robbin 42 yesterday, I said, why can't we take some of these 43 permits, whether they're State or Federal permits and 44 just designate it to a youth, period. We can't apply 45 for it, a youth can apply for it. They go get a hunter 46 safety card, now they're eligible, put their name in a 47 hat and they have to prove that they can get out to the 48 different areas, have a youth permit just for youth. 49 And one or two permits, just to get the door open and 50






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1 see how it works. We need to involve our youth. 2 3 So, anyway. 4 5 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Ken. 6 7 MR. ADKISSON: Through the Chair. 8 Councilman Gray. There's been -- the problem, I think 9 with the cooperators thing is most of those efforts

10 have never been really broadly supported the say some 11 of the caribou working groups and stuff are, and so 12 basically it's the State and the Park Service sort of, 13 and the Federal agencies, including BLM, you know, are 14 kind of chipping in out of their operating budgets, 15 local operating budgets to support it. So it's gotten 16 pretty expensive to do one of those large ones. And 17 also the travel restrictions and requirements, the 18 regulations have gotten, you know, out of control which 19 makes it even more difficult. And, you know, for years 20 I sort of looked at the situation and thought, you 21 know, we solved most of the major problems and I think 22 we did in the early years pretty effectively and that 23 what we needed to do was spend more time in the 24 individual communities trying to fine-tune the system 25 to fit them. But I think not having a cooperators 26 group meeting in that long of period I think you're 27 probably right it may be time to see what we can do to 28 try to kind of get the thing back on track. 29 30 The other complicating thing is, what 31 made it pretty successful in the early years was we 32 were able to get a fairly broad consensus and then we 33 could work that through the local Fish and Game 34 Advisory Committees and through the RACs and by the 35 time you worked that out, you had pretty solid 36 proposals going to both the State and Federal systems 37 to the Board of Game and to the Federal Subsistence 38 Board, which made it pretty easy to coordinate and the 39 other thing that's happened in the intervening years is 40 the regulatory cycles of the State and the Federal have 41 gotten so far out of whack that coordinating anything 42 to make it come out with a final similar result on both 43 sides is getting more and more difficult. 44 45 But, yeah, I think it may be time to 46 work on a cooperators meeting and we'll talk about that 47 and see what we can do. 48 49 MR. GRAY: So, Bill just showed up. And 50






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1 let me backtrack a little bit, Bill and get you filled 2 in, I guess, on some of the thoughts. 3 4 You weren't around when we had a 5 cooperators meeting and there was -- gosh, there must 6 have been 50 of us in this building here talking about 7 muskox and it's been 20 years probably or longer since 8 that happened. And my suggestion was that through the 9 different agencies and stuff, somehow that cooperators

10 group comes back together to address some of the issues 11 that's going on, the differences that we have. You can 12 take your permit and hunt on Federal lands, State and 13 Federal lands, he can't take his permit and go hunt on 14 yours. We have the same user group, the people, the 15 clientele that we have are the same people. There's no 16 reason for the differences. 17 18 A proposal coming from that muskox 19 committee is going to carry a heck of a lot more weight 20 than a proposal from Tom Gray. So, anyway, I think 21 there's a benefit that we pull that group together. 22 23 I threw a pitch about getting the youth 24 involved, we got 30 or 40 permits going out to the 25 public right now that Tom Gray gets to shoot a muskox 26 and Joe Blow and permits here and there, you know, I 27 suggested between the different agencies that issue 28 permits we come up with one or two permits just for a 29 kid and nobody else, we can't get it, it's got to be a 30 kid. And promote hunter safety along with that, you 31 have to take the hunter safety course, on and on, you 32 know, you can create a good program around it, I think. 33 And the reward is somebody gets to go shoot a muskox, 34 and maybe it's several kids or half a dozen kids get to 35 go do this experience. However it's designed, it's to 36 instill the muskox into the folks, into the kids, 37 because they're the ones that are going to be running 38 the show in a blink of the eye. I mean we're all going 39 to be gone and it's going to be these kids. If we 40 don't instill this now, it'll die. 41 42 So that hunger will die. 43 44 But, anyway, beavers. Get rid of them. 45 46 (Laughter) 47 48 MR. GRAY: So anyway that was kind of 49 some of the issues that I brought up. 50






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1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Tom. 2 3 Bill, do you have anything to pitch in 4 there. 5 6 MR. KIRK: He's still trying to wake 7 up. 8 9 (Laughter)

10 11 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Phil/Bill. 12 13 MR. DUNKER: No, I don't have anything 14 to add at this time. Certainly just taking an 15 opportunity to listen to what you guys have to say. 16 17 As far as the cooperators group is 18 concerned, I do understand that it's been a number of 19 years since that group got together and obviously the 20 work that came out of it put us in a situation where we 21 are today, where we've got, you know, pretty sound 22 management in place. It seems to be working for us 23 right now. But it very well may be time to take 24 another look at that and get all the interested parties 25 together to discuss the issue in greater detail. 26 27 Thank you. 28 29 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Bill. 30 31 Any other questions or comments from 32 Council. 33 34 (No comments) 35 36 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Anybody on the phone. 37 38 (No comments) 39 40 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Hearing none. I think 41 we -- you got anything to add, Ken, you're done, right. 42 43 MR. ADKISSON: No, like I said, Mr. 44 Chair, we'll talk with ADF&G about maybe trying to get 45 a cooperators meeting together. 46 47 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay, thanks. 48 49 All right so that brings us to -- we've 50






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1 gone through the Park, we've gone through BLM, ADF&G -- 2 what -- okay, Karen's going to get me. 3 4 MS. DEATHERAGE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 5 I know ADF&G reported on some specific issues but, 6 certainly, I think during this agency report time we 7 might want to open the floor up for them to give 8 updates that they think are important to the Council. 9

10 Thank you. 11 12 CHAIRMAN GREEN: You're on. 13 14 (Laughter) 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: You better go get some 17 coffee. 18 19 (Laughter) 20 21 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Ron tattled on you. 22 23 (Laughter) 24 25 MR. DUNKER: Well, I guess first off, 26 Bill Dunker, Unit 22 area biologist for the record 27 there. 28 29 We are in the midst right now of kind 30 of getting our regulatory year started with the Board 31 of Game cycle coming up. It's been discussed here, you 32 guys have the deadline of May 1st to submit proposals 33 to the Department for consideration at the 2020 Western 34 and Arctic Board of Game meeting. That meeting is 35 actually scheduled to be held here in Nome January 17th 36 through the 20th of 2020, so that'll be a great 37 opportunity for everybody to weigh in and have their 38 voices heard both through the public comment process as 39 well as during the course of that meeting itself. 40 41 So just to give you guys a rundown of 42 kind of how the process will unfold with respect to 43 those proposals. Like I said the deadline is May 1st 44 of 2019, after which the Board Support Staff will take 45 all the proposals that were submitted and compile them 46 into a proposal book which will then be made available 47 to the public. Probably on our website, there'll be 48 hard copies, it'll be made available -- we'll probably 49 have some at the office, all that kind of stuff. But 50






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1 once those proposals are made public there will be an 2 opportunity to submit comments on those proposals, 3 recommendations, amendments in certain instances, you 4 know, perspective and all that stuff will be very 5 important to the ACs and the Board as they deliberate 6 on those proposals and take into consideration all the 7 kind of confounding variables and extenuating 8 circumstances and what not. 9

10 So there's several issues that the 11 Department plans to address during this coming Board 12 cycle and I think the most significant one for folks in 13 our region would be the situation that we have going in 14 22D. During the time period between 2011 and 2014 we 15 observed some pretty significant declines in abundance 16 in the 22D moose population. And since that time we 17 have not seen, you know, any sort of recovery..... 18 19 (Teleconference interference - 20 participants not muted) 21 22 MR. DUNKER: .....or indication that 23 things have improved. 24 25 So have not been able to complete a 26 population survey in that area since 2014. We've made 27 an effort to do so and it was last year, 2017, 2018 was 28 the last time we tried to get something taken care of 29 in that area. We faced very similar weather conditions 30 to what we experienced this year, a series of low 31 pressure systems during the time period in which we 32 were making an effort to do that work, just made it 33 impossible for us to get out there and work safely and 34 effectively. 35 36 So last year we kind of did what we 37 could. 38 39 We went back into the area later on in 40 the spring and completed some spring recruitment 41 surveys in an effort to just get a handle on what the 42 trajectory of that population might be. And certainly 43 the results of that were not encouraging, we had, I 44 think 11 percent recruitment at that time in the 22D 45 remainder area which indicates to us that that 46 population is likely stable or declining. But, you 47 know, recruitment rates in the mid-teens, upper-teens 48 would certainly be more encouraging. So that's just 49 one of several red flags that we have in the area, 50






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1 would be the poor productivity. 2 3 I think we've talked about it with the 4 members of the Council here in years past, mostly with 5 respect to that antlerless hunt that you guys submitted 6 a proposal to eliminate yesterday, but, certainly 7 productivity within that population is a concern. 8 Another one would be the bull/cow ratios within the 9 area. For the last three consecutive composition

10 surveys conducted in 22D remainder, we've seen bull/cow 11 ratios below our management objective of 30 bulls per 12 100 cows. The last time we did it was this past fall 13 at which time we found 18 bulls per 100 cows, which is 14 extremely alarming. It puts us in a bad situation that 15 we need to do something about moving forward. 16 17 And so kind of with that in mind, the 18 Department submitted a proposal and it'll be, you know, 19 made publicly available, like I said, through that 20 Board process in preparation for the 2020 Board of Game 21 meeting. The proposal at this time is simply to put a 22 registration permit in that area. What that will 23 ultimately allow us to do is address this situation and 24 improve harvest reporting. Last year we took a total 25 of 33 moose out of the area, now that's a reported 26 harvest, that's harvest that was reported to the 27 Department through the general season harvest ticket 28 hunt reports and this should be realistically 29 considered to be a minimum. Because there is a number 30 of animals that are harvested from the area that are 31 not reported to the Department through the kind of 32 traditional means with respect to -- or using green 33 harvest tickets and hunt reports and things like that. 34 We know this because we've got household subsistence 35 information from surveys completed by the Subsistence 36 Division that suggests that between primarily the 37 communities of Brevig Mission and Teller, you know, 38 there's anyway from 15 to 20 moose that are harvested 39 annually from those communities collectively and we 40 don't see that level of harvest documented in our hunt 41 reports and so that leads us to believe that a good 42 deal of that harvest is under reported. 43 44 So with those two measures of harvest 45 combined, it really kind of tells a story when look at 46 declining bull/cow ratios and poor productivity, that 47 we're simply overharvesting moose in that area and by 48 implementing a registration permit it will, again, 49 allow us to have a better understanding of what 50






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1 actually is being harvested out of that area as well as 2 what -- as well as allowing us as the Department to 3 manage that hunt and restrict it so that when we've 4 reached a certain level, much as we do in other 5 portions of the unit, when we've reached a certain 6 level of harvest we can close that season down and 7 exercise some in-season management to insure that that 8 population harvest -- harvest in that area is at 9 sustainable levels. And ultimately these sorts of

10 measures will be in an effort to, you know, allow us to 11 harvest moose from that area 10 years coming down the 12 line here. 13 14 You know the situation is at a level 15 here if we don't take some action to get a handle on 16 what the harvest is in that area, we stand to see more 17 declines, less animals available for harvest and it 18 very well may affect, you know, your children and your 19 children's children's opportunity to harvest moose from 20 that area and so it's something that the Department's 21 taking very seriously and I honestly look forward to 22 working with everybody as we develop the registration 23 permit, should it be implemented by the Board, which I 24 sincerely hope they do. 25 26 Now, the public process, I kind of 27 alluded to it there, will be very important as we work 28 through the development of a registration permit for 29 that area. We've got a lot of examples from across the 30 state of different ways that we've implemented the 31 Department's discretionary permit authority to manage 32 these sorts of registration permit hunts. We've got 33 examples of them here in Unit 22 such as RM841 down in 34 the Unalakleet area, RM840 here in the local area. And 35 then there's other examples from other parts of the 36 region, like the Yukon Kuskokwim River Delta, up in 37 Kotzebue. And so we don't have to reinvent the wheel 38 here, we can kind of evaluate different alternatives 39 that are available to us and ultimately those 40 alternatives will kind of dictate how that hunt is 41 administered, who ultimately kind of is able to 42 participate in those hunts and in a sense kind of 43 dictate how that harvest, the available harvest in the 44 area is allocated to the different users that rely on 45 that population of moose to fill their freezers and 46 what not. 47 48 Now, certainly as a Department 49 representative, you know, those allocative issues are 50






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1 left to the Board of Game to determine but I mention 2 them here to you folks because, again, the comments 3 that you make and the recommendations that are made to 4 the Board will weigh heavily on how the Department is 5 kind of tasked with administering a hunt of this nature 6 in 22D remainder. 7 8 I kind of -- I mentioned discretionary 9 permit authority, I'm sure you guys have all heard it

10 before or at least, if you haven't you've probably been 11 subjected to some of the conditions that we apply to 12 different hunts. In its simplest form, discretionary 13 permit authority allows the Department to limit 14 basically where, when and how many permits are made 15 available. And as I mentioned, you know, the way we 16 manipulate those different characteristics of a hunt 17 can really influence how it ultimately unfolds. The 18 best example I can think of would be the RM843 winter 19 moose hunt in 22B west of the Darby Mountains. That 20 hunt is administered by registration permit using a 21 portion of the available harvest from 22B west. And 22 the Northern Norton Sound AC reached an agreement that 23 those permits would only be made available in the 24 communities of White Mountain and Golovin. And so as a 25 consequence of that, the vast majority of harvest comes 26 from residents of White Mountain and Golovin because 27 they have access to those permits and they're more 28 easily able to participate in the hunt. 29 30 And so there's any number of different 31 kind of variations on that theme that can be applied to 32 different registration permits. 33 34 And obviously if anybody has any 35 questions about, you know, ideas, how they might 36 unfold, that's ultimately something I can help you guys 37 out and help you understand and kind of work through 38 the different alternatives should you have comments or 39 recommendations for the Department or for the Board 40 during the course of this process here. 41 42 But, again, I have to stress the 43 importance of the situation that we're in, you know, 44 bull/cow ratios are a clear indication that we are 45 overharvesting the population and that'll need to be 46 addressed in this coming Board cycle, and realistically 47 none of the other metrics coming out of that area are 48 encouraging. Poor productivity, low bull/cow ratios, 49 it's time to take action on the situation there. 50






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1 Let's see. 2 3 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I had a question, 4 Bill. 5 6 MR. DUNKER: Sure. 7 8 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Since we're talking 9 about moose. You know the Department has always talked

10 about the migration back and forth, the numbers up and 11 down, never seems to be a settled determination on the 12 difference between 22D and 22E there in that area, in 13 the -- like the Agiapuk River and that area. 14 15 So I'm looking here at 22E and you got 16 non-resident tags, RM855, how many hunts are allowed to 17 non-residents, it doesn't say in 22E? 18 19 MR. DUNKER: So there's an unlimited 20 number of permits that are made available for that 21 hunt, however, it is administered with a harvest quota. 22 The last couple of years the harvest quota has been 13 23 moose. 24 25 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So 13 to non- 26 residents. 27 28 MR. DUNKER: That's correct. 29 30 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So -- and this 31 is a herd that we're talking about over the years that 32 goes between 22E and 22D in that portion of 22D, 33 correct? 34 35 MR. DUNKER: So we've certainly, you 36 know, there was a collaring project in the early 80s 37 that documented some movement between those two areas. 38 And then more recently we do have some collared animals 39 out there that have exhibited similar movements. Most 40 of those have been seasonal to some degree, where 41 they're moving into one area and then returning to 42 where they started from thereafter. A lot of that's 43 coming from the collaring project that's being done by 44 our research Staff. They're hanging collars on six 45 month old moose calves, cows primarily, and then are 46 radio tracking flights thereafter documented movements 47 from, you know, their wintering areas and like the 48 Kuzitrin and the Kougarok River drainages, seasonally 49 moving into E and then back again. 50






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1 The important thing to keep in mind I 2 think there, is that, you know, we've documented that 3 that movement does exist but it's at an unknown rate 4 and we're not quite sure what sort of influence that 5 has on the populations in any given area. But it 6 certainly has influenced how we survey the population 7 in that area, in that, prior to, I think it was 2003, 8 2002, somewhere in that ball park, we would typically 9 survey those areas separately, so we would do 22E one

10 year and the next year we'd go back, we'd do 22D. And 11 that left a lot of questions because if you, you know, 12 observe an increase in one area, does that mean that 13 they just simply moved over, is that actual growth, 14 and, again that movement information that we had, 15 though limited, was kind of -- it added a lot of 16 questions to the situation so now we survey those two 17 areas collectively and have kind of an overall big 18 picture understanding of what's going on in that area 19 with respect to the number of animals. 20 21 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Thank you. So 22 is that showing you that past experiences is proving to 23 be what happens with that herd, it moves back and forth 24 when you're looking at the broad -- you're talking 25 about counting those areas together now, are you seeing 26 any fluctuation back and forth when you do those 27 counts? 28 29 MR. DUNKER: So when we look at the 30 area as a whole, it does appear to be a bit more stable 31 than the individual areas. And what I mean by that is, 32 you know, generally speaking, we have approximately 33 2,000 animals in that area collectively. 34 35 You know, obviously there's some -- 36 these are estimates and so there is a little bit of 37 uncertainty associated with them. But that -- over the 38 last, like, well, it would be the three surveys that we 39 completed collectively over the entire area, again, 40 we're looking at roughly 2,000 so there may very well 41 be a redistribution but it doesn't seem -- and, again, 42 we haven't been back in there for so many years that 43 it's hard to say what's going on there now, which is 44 why it's been identified as a priority for next year. 45 46 Does that help answer your question. 47 48 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Sort of but it didn't 49 cover it completely because what I was asking is, did 50






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1 you notice any fluctuation by doing those surveys for 2 both areas at the same time, at any given time did you 3 notice more animals in one and then the next time you 4 went, more animals in the other, so that shows that 5 movement. 6 7 MR. DUNKER: Yeah, so like 22E has 8 certainly experienced growth and speaking in 9 generalities 22D has experienced declines so I guess

10 you could make the argument that there's been a bit of 11 a redistribution of those animals. But at the same 12 time, 22E, the metrics that we're monitoring in that 13 area had been much better than we see elsewhere so 14 movement may be a factor but it's not the only factor 15 driving the abundance of animals in any given area. 16 22E has considerably higher levels of recruitment. 17 Again,looking at 22D remainder, we're looking at 11 18 percent recruitment. The inverse is -- or on the other 19 side of the divide in 22E we're looking at close to 18 20 percent recruitment, which is obviously an indication 21 that that population is likely experiencing growth. 22 23 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay, thanks, that 24 gives me a better answer there. 25 26 So in 22E, considering that this herd 27 is basically, to me, I mean I envision it that you're 28 looking at both areas now, that's just one herd to me 29 because at any given time they're shuffling back and 30 forth. 31 32 How many of those -- see, non-resident 33 now, just for everybody's knowledge, 13 tags go to non- 34 residents, which means guided hunts? 35 36 MR. DUNKER: So I think the biggest 37 thing that sets 22E apart from other portions of the 38 unit is that access in the area is certainly a 39 challenge. It's most -- I think it's safe to say that 40 most non-resident hunters that hunting that area have 41 some level of support associated with their efforts. 42 They're either, you know, having transporters bring 43 them in there, or they're using the services of a 44 guide. There are some hunters that kind of do the do 45 it yourself moose hunt, it's not required that they be 46 guided but it seems to certainly facilitate their 47 efforts in the area, the use of a guide that is. 48 49 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So that's a general 50






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1 harvest ticket in 22E as well as at this point, general 2 harvest ticket in 22D remainder, and I know what you're 3 talking about when it's transporters, there's lots of 4 aircraft up there. It's a pretty busy area. I spent 5 about 8 days up there in the Agiapuk River last fall 6 and was unsuccessful. Track soup doesn't taste good. 7 8 So, anyway, I'm looking at this picture 9 you're drawing for me and I'm wondering if we're going

10 to go to a registered hunt in 22D remainder, is that 11 what you were pointing out? 12 13 MR. DUNKER: Mr. Chair. That's what 14 the proposal asks the Board to implement in the area is 15 a registration permit hunt. 16 17 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So that kind of 18 provides for local harvest. And we're looking at a 19 herd that's, to me, a combined herd of 22E and 22D 20 remainder area, we have non-residents coming in there 21 and taking at least 13 moose out. So where are those 22 non-residents from, I don't know, are they from in- 23 state, in the Anchorage area? 24 25 MR. DUNKER: Yeah, so, Mr. Chair. That 26 hunt RM855 is only available to non-residents, so they 27 are not Alaska residents, they're from elsewhere in the 28 country. 29 30 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. So we're 31 willing to go to a registered hunt for our local 32 hunters because we're worried about 15 or 20 moose that 33 are being taken by people in the nearby villages that 34 are showing up on the surveys, but we're allowing 13 35 moose to be taken out of that herd, I'm going to call 36 it a herd because it's in the same vicinity, we're 37 going to allow that to continue. So where's the 38 restriction for these non-residents, if we're tapping 39 the same group of moose there; is there any 40 consideration by the State to even consider some kind 41 of restrictions on these non-residents? 42 43 MR. DUNKER: So that ultimately would 44 be an allocative decision that would be made by the 45 Board of Game. I believe you guys submitted a proposal 46 in years past to close non-resident hunting in both 22D 47 and 22E, it was their decision at that time based on 48 the biological information and the current regulations 49 in the area that they would continue to allow for non- 50






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1 resident harvest in 22E. 2 3 You know, I'm kind of lucky in that 4 respect with my job, that those sorts of allocative 5 decisions, they don't fall on me. They are the purview 6 of the Board of Game. When I look at harvest 7 information from both reported harvest for residents 8 hunting in the area as well as non-residents that hunt 9 in the area, and this is talking about 22E because we

10 did close the non-resident season in D in 2015, the 11 combined with -- so, again, resident harvest from the 12 general season harvest reports that are submitted to 13 the Department, non-resident harvest that's reported to 14 us on the registration permit hunt harvest tickets, 15 combined with our understanding of moose harvest from 16 the local communities in 22E that is not reported to 17 the Department but determined through these household 18 subsistence surveys suggests that, you know, we're not 19 in a situation that -- where we're overharvesting the 20 moose in 22E. The metrics, again, coming from 22E have 21 been much better than in 22D. We got higher bull/cow 22 ratios which -- and they've been stable at that level 23 for the last two surveys that we've done in the area. 24 I think the most recent one would have been the fall of 25 2018, but we're pushing, you know, close to 40 bulls 26 per 100 cows in 22E. And, again, you know, as I 27 mentioned before we're well below that in 22D, below 20 28 bulls per 100 cows, which is certainly a more 29 concerning situation. 30 31 So, again, it was the Board's 32 determination the last time they considered it, based 33 on the biological information, that that population 34 could continue to provide for non-resident opportunity. 35 But, again, that's not my decision to make. If there's 36 a desire to make additional changes to the opportunity 37 provided in 22E, you know, the best course of action 38 for something like that would be to submit a proposal 39 to eliminate the non-resident season in that area, but 40 that would ultimately be a public proposal, not one 41 that was developed by the Department. 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. I see Nikki 44 raising her hand there, she might have something to 45 add. 46 47 MS. BRAEM: Is it okay, could I ask a 48 question? 49 50






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1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Well, if it's adding 2 to the conversation it's probably okay. 3 4 MS. BRAEM: Hi there. This is Nikki 5 Braem, cultural anthropologist with BELA. 6 7 I had a question for Bill. Because of 8 the way that the State system works relative to non- 9 residents, who are not Alaskans, where is the

10 harvestable surplus relative to the ANS for Unit 22 11 moose. 12 13 MR. DUNKER: Sure. So that's a great 14 question and I probably should have just mentioned it 15 straight off, but, thank you, Nikki. 16 17 (Laughter) 18 19 MR. DUNKER: So what we have going on 20 in Unit 22 is we have a range-wide ANS for moose of 250 21 to 300, and that's a metric that -- or those levels 22 will be used by the Board of Game to kind of determine 23 what sorts of opportunities would be provided for 24 different user groups. 25 26 And this is just a recap for everybody 27 in the room here. 28 29 When we have a harvestable surplus of 30 moose in Unit 22 that's greater than 300 that allows us 31 the opportunity to provide for all uses, basically, 32 non-residents, non-local, local residents, you know, 33 everybody gets an opportunity to harvest moose from 34 Unit 22. 35 36 If we find ourselves in a situation 37 where we're between 250 and 300 that would prompt the 38 Board of Game to consider eliminating non-resident 39 opportunity in the area. It would potentially put us 40 into a situation where we're -- what we refer to as 41 Tier I, only resident harvest is provided for, or 42 resident opportunity is provided for, rather. 43 44 And then if we find ourselves in a 45 situation where the harvestable surplus is below 250 46 moose, and this is from Unit 22, as a whole, that would 47 be an instance where the Board would then be -- may be 48 prompted to only provide for limited subsistence 49 opportunity through the Tier II system. 50






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1 So for the regulatory year 2018/2019, 2 so the one that just wrapped up, the harvestable 3 surplus for Unit 22 was 314 moose and so we do find 4 ourselves above the upper threshold of the ANS and 5 historically the harvestable surplus in Unit 22 has 6 kind of danced around that upper threshold. We dipped 7 below it for a period of time and then we've been above 8 it, but we've always been kind of dancing around that 9 upper threshold there of 300 moose.

10 11 MS. BRAEM: Another question. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. 14 15 MS. BRAEM: So another question, I'm 16 not representing the Division of Subsistence, but I'm 17 very familiar with the data so my question would be, 18 would the number 15 -- you said 15 to 20 moose you 19 estimate based on household survey data..... 20 21 MR. DUNKER: For 22D. 22 23 MS. BRAEM: .....for 22D. 24 25 MR. DUNKER: That's the estimates for 26 basically -- the average estimates for Brevig and 27 Teller. 28 29 MS. BRAEM: Okay. So I was, just out 30 of curiosity, what was the most recent survey data that 31 you had, I'm just curious if you're missing some data 32 in your calculation because so -- so the way that this 33 works out is, you know, you -- say you visit Brevig 34 three times since 1990 and you come up with an estimate 35 for every year based on talking to as many households 36 as you can, and you bound that with confidence 37 intervals just like they do with everything else, if 38 you look at the mean value, I mean the average over -- 39 it could be an average over a 20 year period, the 40 caution you have in using an average value over many, 41 many, many years and then you kind of look at how many 42 people are there and you kind of roughly say, okay, 43 there's on average 5.2 moose per capita over time, and 44 you go okay there's 100 people there, let's figure out 45 what we think it is in 2018, is if you have a very high 46 year, and you don't get a lot of -- you don't get a lot 47 of surveys, your mean can be a little high. So it -- 48 I'm just curious what the most recent data year you 49 have in there because I'm a little concerned that it 50






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1 might be a little high. 2 3 MR. DUNKER: The latest one that was 4 included in the average was from 2016. 5 6 MS. BRAEM: Oh, good, okay. Because I 7 know they did a survey in 2016 and '17 as well and so, 8 yeah, that was just the concern I had in thinking about 9 the data, you have to be a little bit cautious and I

10 know these guys are -- they're not playing funny math 11 or anything like that. But I was concerned that the 12 most recent surveys made it in, so, good. 13 14 Oh, and one more question. 15 16 MR. DUNKER: Sure -- or, I don't know. 17 18 (Laughter) 19 20 MS. BRAEM: Sorry, I have all these 21 questions. 22 23 CHAIRMAN GREEN: If it's relevant to 24 the conversation..... 25 26 MS. BRAEM: It is. 27 28 CHAIRMAN GREEN: .....I'm listening. 29 30 MS. BRAEM: And I don't want to -- I 31 certainly do not want to direct you guys in any manner, 32 but it -- so it sounds like the harvestable surplus is 33 remaining above that threshold which would prompt the 34 Board to consider eliminating non-resident -- it's not 35 in Tier I, we're still above that, right? 36 37 MR. DUNKER: Yeah. 38 39 MS. BRAEM: In terms of where the moose 40 are and the relative abundance of moose, is there a 41 portion of 22 in general, because it's a unit-wide ANS, 42 which is kind of carrying the water on keeping us out 43 of -- it has -- there's more moose in 22B or A or 44 something, that's keeping us -- the overall -- Unit 22 45 surplus out of problems, but, you know, there's just a 46 lot of them here and because it's range-wide, I don't 47 know if that makes sense -- I guess I'm dancing around 48 the question of since you manage ANS -- since you 49 manage the hunt based on a unit-wide ANS as opposed to 50






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1 subunit ANS which could be super complicated and 2 difficult to deal with, is there a part of the unit 3 that's kind of keeping you out of Tier I? 4 5 MR. DUNKER: I don't believe so. 6 7 MS. BRAEM: Uh-huh. 8 9 MR. DUNKER: You know we've seen other

10 portions of the unit that, you know, have increased 11 while conversely others have declined. 12 13 MS. BRAEM: Uh-huh. 14 15 MR. DUNKER: You know there's not any 16 one area that seems to be, you know, carrying the 17 weight, certainly the increases in the population that 18 we've seen, in the southern portion in 22A, you know, 19 that doesn't hurt, but, you know, obviously I think the 20 folks down there are pretty excited to have more moose. 21 22 MS. BRAEM: Yeah. 23 24 MR. DUNKER: But, no, I mean we're not 25 using any like, you know, excessive harvest rates in 26 any of the calculations that we're doing or anything 27 like that, I mean there's no funny math. 28 29 MS. BRAEM: Yeah. 30 31 MR. DUNKER: And the 314, or, I guess 32 313 moose that we had available for harvest this past 33 regulatory year, you know, that includes a more 34 conservative harvest rate on moose in 22D remainder. 35 And so that would be where we stand to be, at least for 36 this next coming year since we don't have any 37 additional abundance information that would change 38 those values. 39 40 MS. BRAEM: Okay, thanks. 41 42 MR. DUNKER: Uh-huh. 43 44 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Nikki. You 45 had some good questions there, one of them was mine, so 46 good. 47 48 (Laughter) 49 50






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1 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Leland, and then 2 Tommy. 3 4 MR. OYOUMICK: Yeah. I was curious 5 about what kind of ratio you'd like to see in our river 6 system in Unalakleet, bull/cow ratio and I was curious 7 to see when you'll lift the quota, if that can get 8 answered I'd be happy. 9

10 MR. DUNKER: Sure, Leland. Through the 11 Chair. So it's generally accepted across the state 12 that a good objective in terms of bull/cow ratios would 13 be 30 bulls per 100 cows. And, you know, it's such an 14 important metric because it insures that we have enough 15 animals on the landscape, both for harvest, but also to 16 continue to breed cows and produce more moose moving 17 forward. You know there's probably a little bit of an 18 insurance policy built into that objective because bull 19 moose, in particular, go into the winter in poorer 20 condition than the cows do having spent the better part 21 of, you know, September and October rutting and chasing 22 cows around and fighting and things like that, so they 23 tend to eliminate a lot of their reserves during that 24 time period and go into the winter in poorer condition 25 than other age and sex classes within the population. 26 And so, you know, when we find ourselves in a situation 27 where we're below 20, in the teens, like we are in 22D, 28 we've lost that insurance policy and so if you have a 29 couple of hard winters or one hard winter and, you 30 know, those animals that -- those bulls that went in in 31 poor condition are all of a sudden subjected to a very 32 difficult winter and there's the greater potential for 33 a large deal of over winter mortality which then kind 34 of sets the dominos up moving forward, and again just 35 puts us in a bad situation where we stand to lose a 36 significant number of our breeding bulls that are 37 obviously so important to the population as well as the 38 animals that are ultimately available for harvest in a 39 given area. 40 41 Now, speaking specifically about 22A, 42 we are well above that objective down there as to the 43 last time that we looked in the area, we had some 44 really interesting results when we looked in 2017 in 45 the Unalakleet drainage at the proportion of bulls, we 46 were over one to one, so we're, you know, 18 bulls per 47 100 cows in 22D, you know, we were well over 100 bulls 48 per 100 cows in 22A. Now, you got to take that with a 49 grain of salt because there's a lot that we don't 50






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1 understand about movement in that area and the 2 influence that it may or may not have in that 3 population. And so, you know, we're dealing with an 4 area where you've got moose populations on the Yukon 5 that may be sharing the same rutting habitat and those 6 are all just unknowns at this point and so they need to 7 be taken -- or considered when we set harvest quotas 8 and things like that. 9

10 And so 22A has a history of low moose 11 abundance in the area and, again, there's that kind of 12 confounding variable, what sort of an impact does 13 movement have on the population in the area. And so 14 we've -- in spite of those bull/cow ratios which other 15 places would allow us to, you know, increase harvest 16 quotas and open up opportunity, we certainly display a 17 good deal of caution when applying harvest rates in the 18 area so we currently maintain the harvest rate at 4 19 percent and, you know, the last several years and 20 actually since we started hunting in that area again, 21 you know, we've continuously offered -- or made season 22 extensions to provide additional opportunity for permit 23 holders to harvest animals in the area, which seems 24 counter to what you might think would be a situation 25 where you'd have an excess of bulls running around and 26 available for harvest and things like that. 27 28 So we have to take those metrics with a 29 good deal of caution down there, in particular. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thanks, Bill. How's 32 that, good. 33 34 MR. OYOUMICK: (Nods) 35 36 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So before Tommy. I 37 want to talk about this 250 to 300 for the total unit. 38 I recall the number of -- on the average back in the 39 day, when we were taking 400 moose out of all of 22, 40 and so I see the number's moved down to -- the high 41 number is 300 now, that's 100 less, but I was looking 42 back at this -- I consider this 22E and 22D remainder 43 being the same herd and you're saying that 22D 44 remainder has 18 bulls to 100 cows, and then you got 45 22E as 40 bulls to 100 cows, which is 10 over the ideal 46 number that you like for bull count, and we're talking 47 about the movement in this group in relation to each 48 other, kind of sounds like 22A and 18 over there, 49 there's movement you don't understand over there, and 50






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1 so now I look at the harvest in 2017 and if you got 13 2 -- the harvest of 22D remainder, if you've got 13 non- 3 resident tags going out of state, 2017 harvest was 8 4 animals out of the Anchorage area, so you're looking at 5 21 moose coming out of there in just 2017 alone out of 6 22D remainder. 7 8 I'm just having a hard time with the 9 idea that the State says it's okay because 22E is

10 healthier than 22D remainder, it's okay to have non- 11 resident tags coming in -- hunters coming in there and 12 taking 13 moose out when we all know that the way the 13 Fish and Game's been treating that is that 22E and 22D 14 remainder are somewhat of a similar, combined herd. So 15 now we're going to go into a restricted hunt, 16 registered hunt on locals, and we're still going to 17 allow 13 guided hunts on that same herd. I have a hard 18 time saying that 300 moose is good enough for the 19 region when we used to take 400 on the average. So the 20 numbers aren't adding up right for me. 21 22 So I'm just wondering why we're giving 23 these guided hunts priority over our people in the 24 area. 25 26 So Tommy you're next. 27 28 MR. GRAY: So a hunting guide gets to 29 talk. 30 31 (Laughter) 32 33 MR. GRAY: I am a hunting guide and I 34 see value in giving guides moose to hunt on, you know, 35 the mission right now in the Seward Peninsula is to 36 kill every bear on the Seward Peninsula, bear hunting 37 has been my meal ticket for -- since I became a guide, 38 and I -- Tom Gray's been accountable for probably 200 39 bear kills but, you know, if -- if the system had its 40 way -- if the public on the Seward Peninsula had their 41 way, Tom Gray wouldn't have any bears to kill and 42 that's coming and I'm trying to plant a seed here 43 because I think -- I don't know that in my guiding 44 career it's going to be an issue but we'll eventually 45 get the bears down to where it isn't worth guiding for 46 bears. That needs to be replaced for Tom Gray or some 47 local hunters by the only thing left to guide out here 48 is moose, I don't want to go to Fairbanks or go to 49 Kodiak to try and make a living, I grew up here in 50






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1 Nome, this is my home. 2 3 So a half a dozen moose to Tom Gray 4 means something. 5 6 And I have done more to bring back the 7 moose population than probably anybody on the Seward 8 Peninsula by killing bears. I've done my share. 9

10 So anyway I'm going to get off that 11 soapbox. 12 13 The ANS that we have is carrying the 14 opportunity in 22E for non-residents, that's kind of 15 the way I see it right now. And the opportunity in 22E 16 happens, I guess, in my mind set because of the 17 structure of animals in 22E. And I guess we can see 18 the ANS, if we're over 300 everybody gets a piece of 19 the action, well, the system, and I don't understand 20 the system well enough throughout Unit 22, the system 21 is set up so opportunity for non-residents only happens 22 in certain areas because of certain things, which I 23 don't understand. 24 25 Let's take 22B. I go up Ophir Creek, 26 I've been going up Ophir Creek for 20 years. In the old 27 days all I saw was bear tracks, today all I see is 28 moose tracks, very few bear tracks up in there. Things 29 are changing in 22B. And I believe moose are coming 30 back in 22B, at least in certain areas within that 31 unit. So, again, I want to go back to the ANS is 32 carrying not only Unit 22E but also 22B east -- there's 33 a little moose hunt over there. And when you look at 34 what the Feds -- or what the Park has done, is non- 35 Federally-qualified users cannot moose hunt in Federal 36 lands so we've got a situation where the locals and the 37 Feds want a certain thing and yet the State, because of 38 their rules and way of doing things, allow for a non- 39 resident hunt, and that's only because of the full unit 40 ANS, which the majority of the unit, non-residents 41 can't hunt in. 42 43 So the system seems kind of screwed up, 44 I guess in allowing for these non-residents hunt. 45 Something's carrying something. 46 47 Now, in Louis' talk, you know, Louis 48 wants this thing managed as 22E and D managed as one 49 herd and I don't think that's a smart idea because if 50






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1 you manage it as one herd like you guys are thinking, 2 that 22E is going to carry 22D, and you're going to 3 have to open it up for guiding because of the numbers. 4 40 bulls to 100 cows versus 18 bulls to 100 cows, when 5 you roll the dice and come out it's going to be close 6 to 30 bulls to the cows, so it's going to wash out that 7 process. 8 9 So there's one more thing I want to

10 touch on and Tony, I hope you'll listen to this one, is 11 you look at 22D and the problems -- with the moose 12 problems in 22D and you look at 22E and then you go 13 back to Teller and Brevig and you go to Shishmaref and 14 you look at the hunters in those villages, Shishmaref 15 is very, very aggressive when it comes to wolf hunting, 16 those guys are out killing wolves and they're on top of 17 it. The -- I'm not so sure about Teller and Brevig. I 18 know there's guys that kill wolves but I don't think 19 they're as aggressive as Shishmaref. So a suggestion, 20 you know, we've done everything we can, and I saw, we, 21 I sit on the RAC and I sit on the Fish and Game 22 Advisory Committee, we've done everything we can to 23 open up wolf hunting on the Seward Peninsula, but we 24 missed one thing, don't shut the season down, have an 25 open season year-round. We need to do something about 26 these wolves on the Seward Peninsula and that's one of 27 the few options left to address the wolf problem is do 28 not close that season. 29 30 So anyway I'll get off the soapbox. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead, Bill. 33 34 MR. DUNKER: I just -- some of the 35 things that Tom mentioned there kind of sparked a 36 thought or two and I wanted to share those with you 37 guys. 38 39 So we've talked a lot about 22D and E 40 and movement and how that might be influencing the 41 situation up there, and then also just in terms of how 42 we're managing and administering different hunts in the 43 different areas. You know, biologically we treat that 44 area in its entirety as one area that we need to look 45 at when we're doing our abundance because, again, we've 46 documented that movement can occur, again, we don't 47 know how often or at what rate that that occurs, but 48 it's important that we, you know, look at that area in 49 its entirety so that we have a full understanding of 50






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1 the number of moose in that area. 2 3 I think on the flip side of that, 4 though, when it comes to management, each one of those 5 areas is unique in its own way and a lot of that is as 6 a result of the access in the area, right. We're 7 dealing with three areas that have just dramatically 8 different levels of access available to folks on the 9 Seward Peninsula. 22D Kuzitrin, obviously, has the

10 road system going through it, you know, there's a lot 11 of access that's relatively easy for local folks to get 12 out there when they're looking for moose in the 13 falltime and if we kind of scale down from there, 22D 14 would be less accessible, and then 22E even less so 15 than that. And so that ultimately has been one of the 16 driving factors behind why hunts are administered in 17 each of those areas in a little different ways because 18 obviously if we, you know, apply the same hunt regime 19 to the entire area, you're right, right, 22E would kind 20 of dictate in some sense how that hunt unfolds and what 21 we would end up having is with greater levels of 22 participation and effort in the more accessible areas, 23 you know, we'd basically decimate moose populations in 24 those areas while we're waiting for the harvest that's 25 supposed to be coming out of 22E. So we use these 26 different hunt structures and things like that to help 27 distribute the harvest appropriately through the area, 28 which is why we have registration permits in 22D 29 Kuzitrin and we'll need to see them in 22D remainder. 30 But as it stands right now those challenges with 31 respect to access allow for more liberal seasons and 32 bag limits in 22E that would just not be prudent in 33 other portions of the unit. 34 35 So I just wanted to point that out. 36 37 And then obviously, you know, I think 38 you guys all remember, it was before my time, but there 39 was a point in the history of the moose populations on 40 the Seward Peninsula when we had a lot more moose than 41 we have today. But it stands to reason that, you know, 42 based on the history and what we've observed, that it's 43 unlikely and probably not appropriate to have that 44 level of -- or population levels here on the Peninsula 45 again. We've seen it play out time and again in 46 different portions of the state when we have moose 47 populations that occupy previously uninhabitated 48 portions of their range, where they experience 49 considerable growth, reach population levels that are 50






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1 quite impressive, but at some point they max out and 2 they, you know, reach a point where the browsing and 3 what not has an influence on the habitat and the 4 population declines dramatically thereafter. We 5 obviously witnessed it here in Unit 22, and, you know, 6 for us to return to those levels may very well stand to 7 have negative impacts on the habitat again moving 8 forward. And so, you know, it's kind of important for 9 us to kind of acknowledge the limitations of what's

10 possible in terms of moose populations here on the 11 Seward Peninsula and I don't think it's appropriate to 12 look back at historic levels and assume that we will 13 ever be able to, or should return to those levels based 14 on our improved understanding of resource limitation 15 and moose populations and just the decades and decades 16 of time that it takes for the habitat to recover from 17 those population levels. And I think 22B is a great 18 example of an area where, you know, we had a higher 19 level of moose abundance historically and that 20 population declined dramatically and now here we are, 21 you know, 30 years after the fact and we're just now 22 starting to see some of the signs of recovery in that 23 area and, you know, we've exercised caution in other 24 portions of the range because of that, 22C for example. 25 You know we don't want to find ourselves in a situation 26 where we've exceeded what's reasonably sustainable on 27 the range and so we take management action accordingly 28 to limit the levels of population in an area so that we 29 don't find ourselves in a situation where we've pushed 30 it too far and now it's going to be decades before that 31 habitat can sustain moose populations we're able to 32 harvest. 33 34 So just a few things I wanted to 35 mention there as we proceed into the discussion. 36 37 So I'll get off my soapbox. 38 39 CHAIRMAN GREEN: No, you're fine, Bill. 40 It's a discussion it sounds like we need to be having. 41 42 Still this brings me back to the 13 43 that are being taken out by non-residents, not even 44 State of Alaska residents and we're looking at 45 tightening the tourniquet a little bit and slowing the 46 flow down here with our residents and realizing that 47 through these surveys, I don't know, Nikki kind of made 48 it evident to me that the surveys aren't consistent, 49 are they -- I mean are they..... 50






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1 (Laughter) 2 3 CHAIRMAN GREEN: I'm talking about the 4 surveys that go into the village where they're telling 5 me that there's 15 to 20 moose being taken out of 6 Brevig and Teller, okay, and then we've got another 21 7 taken out of residents that aren't even from the region 8 or from the state, so I'm really having a heartburn 9 there why regulation is coming their way.

10 11 And so I understand that 22E might be 12 healthy, well, maybe it's contributing to the 13 betterment of 22D remainder if we leave them alone to 14 where we don't have people coming in there with 15 airplanes, I mean I sat there daily, all the way from 16 early daytime to nighttime before the sun was going 17 down and then I watched SuperCubs flying around, 18 zipping around finding moose over there for their 19 hunters and I'm sitting there in a boat in a river and 20 I don't even have a shot at it until I see where I 21 might find one the next day, on the last day. So, you 22 know, it's really a heartburn to me to see that all 23 this money can drive people in Teller and Brevig out of 24 a moose hunt because it's necessary to give a guide 25 opportunity to take moose out in an area that's pretty 26 grim at this point, with 18 bulls to 100 cow ratio when 27 right over the pass you've got 40 to 100 that might 28 contribute to the health of that 22D remainder. 29 30 So I'm trying not to be grumpy here but 31 I guess I am grumpy on my soapbox. 32 33 So anyway, I think Elmer had something 34 to comment on. 35 36 MR. SEETOT: With regards to all I 37 heard this morning, on Unit 22D, Unit 22D is a heavy 38 use area, it -- it has road connected all the way to 39 Pilgrim. I seen a lot of people that use it for 40 recreational activities, also for fishing activities 41 for red salmon. Pretty much very good place to 42 recreate, or just to come from a marine environment 43 into a river environment and it really lifts up your 44 spirits. Mr. Tom Sparks can pretty much recognize 45 Brevig hunters because we do wear parkies, a majority 46 of us wear parkies compared to other hunters. I seen 47 him one time, Mr. Gray, and his people from White 48 Mountain use Mt. Bendeleben, I see them in the spring 49 time. And in the fall time I see people going up the 50






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1 Agiapuk River while I'm at my in-laws camp, going up to 2 go after moose. 3 4 You mentioned overharvest of moose 5 within 22D remainder, have you considered predation by 6 wolf and bear because like I said, in previous 7 meetings, going Agiapuk, American, Kuzitrin, Davidson 8 River in one -- in one round we counted over 20 moose 9 and then you're talking about bull moose after the rut,

10 you know, they're not in the healthiest conditions, one 11 -- that corridor, Imuruk Basi -- east of Imuruk Basin, 12 that's a corridor for wolf activity. Like I said in 13 the past, at least four wolf packs, anywhere from three 14 to 20, depending on their location where they have 15 their -- their territories and they were pretty much 16 patrolling east -- east side of Imuruk Basin, why, they 17 got a reindeer heard down between Tisuk and Cape 18 Douglas, the Kakararik/Teller herd, that's the one that 19 they're pretty much going after. After -- after the 20 lava beds are -- that -- that brings a lot of wolves 21 into this area in and around the lava beds or pretty 22 much Serpentine area because they're following the food 23 when the -- when the caribou go down. 24 25 And in one instance too we saw 75 to 26 100 moose clustered together in the glenn or whatever, 27 the valley, because -- because there was wolf activity 28 there that got them cornered, that was about 10 years 29 ago. 30 31 So these are things that I witnessed. 32 33 The biologist that sits in a desk, you 34 know, they can put out models of things that are going 35 to happen to the population but I think the main thing 36 that we, as community members, is we're able to 37 actually see things as they happen or -- or what 38 happened, you know, like 20 moose kills or a lot of 39 activity. 40 41 And then around 22D we do have hunters 42 that hunt in September, they bring meat to Teller and 43 Brevig through small planes, which, I think most of the 44 residents do -- do agree on that, you know, it -- if 45 they don't have a successful season then, you know, 46 they have a taste of moose meat while they're gathering 47 other, you know, like berries and stuff like that that 48 goes with the seasons. 49 50






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1 We saw a couple moose in Brevig during 2 the past summer too, at least two moose visited town. 3 4 I think there's too much bear activity. 5 All of us talk about bears. The community of Brevig 6 Mission really doesn't hunt bears as meat source or 7 stuff like that, I would think that they would go after 8 bears only in DLP situations. During my younger years, 9 you know, we went after bears because that was the

10 standard living in the communities, now days it's 11 pretty much high tech where majority of the time spent 12 by young people is just, you know, with Western modern 13 technology. 14 15 You also mentioned heavy moose density 16 over 22A. Did you know that that is a heavy timber 17 area, compared to Unit 22D. Kuzitrin River has some 18 timber. But there's only -- from the Kuzitrin River on 19 to Pilgrim that's pretty much every timber I think that 20 would be used by the moose to -- you know, for safety 21 reasons other than wolf activity and bear activity. So 22 -- so many things come in play and that's what irks me 23 was that you -- is we're overharvesting the bull/cow 24 ratio -- I mean the bulls in that area, remember that 25 it's -- it's a heavy use area. 26 27 And certain times they'll stay away 28 from the river completely especially when the ice is 29 starting to freeze, they don't like to hear the noise 30 of ice cracking close by where they're resting, they'll 31 -- they'll disappear to the high hills until all that 32 activity pretty much ceases, early fall, early winters. 33 34 These are some of the things that 35 we have noticed that we're trying to pass on to the 36 younger generation. 37 38 So there was no population data that -- 39 that you really can go to because maybe when I was in 40 my teens I heard of the first moose going up to the 41 Agiapuk River and that was maybe early '50s, they were 42 there, I think, before I was born, but that was the 43 first time that I heard that -- that there was moose in 44 and around that area first -- when we first -- first 45 got up there, you know, they tasted kind of piney or 46 sprucey from the food that they were eating, now that 47 they're having willow greens or shoots, stuff like 48 that, you know, their meat has become pretty much among 49 the top three, I think, caribou, moose, reindeer are in 50






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1 that area. 2 3 Other than that you -- I -- I guess 4 with the stop of guided hunts in and around Shishmaref, 5 especially the Bering LandBridge, without any human 6 activity or any noise to move the herd around, I think 7 that's where people will -- or the moose will settle or 8 the animals will settle where there's less intrusion by 9 human activity or by noise from, you know, planes going

10 in and around the communities. 11 12 So I think most of this we can blame to 13 human nature but there are other circumstances, you 14 know, that -- that come into play when -- when we're 15 dealing with regulations or animal activity. 16 17 Tom want to have an open season on 18 wolves, I have a better idea, maybe me and this guy, or 19 maybe me and Lloyd would have a better chance of 20 eliminating wolves if we argue. He's for the wolves, 21 I'm against the wolves, that's the way TEK works. 22 Knowledge from our elders was that you don't worry -- 23 argue about the animals that you're -- that are in your 24 vicinity, if you argue about them, they won't be there 25 for you anymore. So I think that -- maybe I'll propose 26 that to Tom, instead of you as Staff wrestling about 27 this idea of eliminating all the wolves, I saw some 28 open mouth gaps and stuff like that, I think they're 29 part of our eco-system where everything is kept into 30 check, but -- but if we eliminate one then something 31 else will come in. Wolves were really caught in the 32 '50s and '60s in and around the lava beds, Kuzitrin 33 River area, because the caribou were still more toward 34 on the Nulato Hills until they start running out of 35 food and they started moving westward. They still have 36 a boundary, I think, the Kougarok Road because whatever 37 travels on that road in dead of winter, you can hear 38 the tires rotating maybe about 20 miles away so that -- 39 so that would kind of deter animals from staying in the 40 area close to the road. 41 42 Other than that, you know, that's just 43 my personal observations that I have pretty much seen 44 over the years and tried to pass on to the younger 45 generation on how to best manage our resource, not -- 46 that have been here for a number of years. 47 48 In the early years it was pretty much 49 take what is needed and now we got regulations for one 50






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1 hunter, at least maybe you have maybe 10 to 20 Staff, 2 with the State and Federal agencies that are trying to 3 figure out what to take, when to take it, in our days 4 like I said, when the season allows it, then harvest 5 it, if not take no more than what you need, and that 6 was the management system adopted by our ancestors 7 that's -- that kind of still works today but then with 8 -- also with Western Science it's pretty much we have 9 to kind of agree with what State and Federal agencies

10 put upon our people for management of wildlife 11 resources. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Elmer. 14 15 So I just wanted to make a comment to 16 you, Bill, I'm not upset with you because like you say, 17 you don't have anything to do with allocations, you're 18 just the guy in the hot seat and I apologize if I made 19 you feel any uncomfortable feelings there, but it's my 20 thoughts here trying to deal with this here at the 21 table. It's frustrating to see what's kind of 22 materializing here, I didn't realize as much -- but I 23 witnessed the pressure, the hunting pressure up there 24 and so it behooves me that maybe we should be trying to 25 conserve more up there and we should be providing for 26 local harvest instead of somebody harvesting from 27 either the Anchorage bowl area, or the Valley or the 28 Lower 48, you know, when I count 21 animals in 2017 29 taken out of 22D according to what I've got here, that 30 just kind of hits the nerve. And then witnessing how 31 that pressure on that area there, you know, witnessing 32 it for a week or so, it just -- there's got to be some 33 other way to do this to provide for our local folks, 34 between the State and the Feds. 35 36 But, anyway, you want to add something. 37 38 MR. DUNKER: Well, I just wanted to 39 give you the latest harvest information for those two 40 areas because I feel like we're talking about 22E and 41 kind of confusing the harvest information for those two 42 areas. 43 44 So just to recap. 45 46 We closed the non-resident season in 47 22D remainder in 2015 so there's no non-resident 48 harvest coming out of that area. During the 2018/2019 49 regulatory year we took a total of 33 moose -- well, 50






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1 that was the reported harvest from 22D remainder, was 2 33 moose and 25 of those were harvested by local Alaska 3 residents, 8 of those were by non-local Alaska 4 residents. 5 6 When we head up and over the divide 7 there into 22E, again, the reported harvest for the 8 different user groups totals 29 moose taken out of -- 9 or sorry it was a reported harvest of 29 moose out of

10 22E, 13 of those were taken by local Alaska residents, 11 three of those were taken by non-local Alaska residents 12 and then 13 were taken by non-resident hunters. 13 14 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Could you give me 15 those numbers again, I'm sorry, 22E was 29 total? 16 17 MR. DUNKER: Yeah, 29 total reported 18 harvest. 19 20 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. 21 22 MR. DUNKER: So, again, we can't 23 account for the unreported harvest other than the 24 information that we get from those household 25 subsistence surveys. But the 29 reported harvest 26 breaks down 13 local Alaska residents, three non-local 27 Alaska residents, and 13 non-residents. 28 29 MS. DEATHERAGE: Mr. Chair. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Three non-local 32 -- wait a minute..... 33 34 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Three Anchorage 35 residents. 36 37 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Those are 38 Alaska residents, and then 13 outside, Lower 48 or 39 wherever. 40 41 MR. DUNKER: That's correct. 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Karen. 44 45 MS. DEATHERAGE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 46 I just have a quick clarification, that's for 2018? 47 48 MR. DUNKER: Yeah, that's correct. 49 50






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1 (Pause) 2 3 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So 13 for local out of 4 the 29, and 16 out of the area. So over 50 percent 5 going elsewhere. 6 7 Tommy, did you have something. 8 9 MR. GRAY: No.

10 11 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Go ahead -- oh, I 12 thought you signaled me there. 13 14 MR. GRAY: No. 15 16 CHAIRMAN GREEN: So we've beat the 17 moose herd to death. 18 19 You must have something else to share 20 or am I missing something? 21 22 MR. DUNKER: Yep, I got more. So we 23 talked a little bit yesterday about the challenges that 24 the Department and everybody else that was trying to 25 get work done this spring faced with respect to the 26 weather conditions. 27 28 We had planned to do a 22B and C moose 29 abundance survey in the local area here and out towards 30 White Mountain, Council, Golovin area, obviously that 31 was delayed due to weather for a number of weeks and by 32 the time we got out there conditions in certain 33 portions of that unit had deteriorated to the point 34 where doing the abundance survey with the methodology 35 that we've used or that we had planned for this year 36 wasn't feasible anymore so at that point we 37 transitioned to completing spring recruitment surveys. 38 We completed surveys both in 22C and 22B separately and 39 really the intent here was to go out and put eyes on as 40 many moose as we could in a couple of days and identify 41 the number of spring -- or short yearlings that were in 42 the animals that we observed to give us a sense of what 43 recruitment was during this last year. 44 45 22B was another year of, you know, at 46 least somewhat encouraging results when we looked at 47 the population in 2016 as part of an abundance survey, 48 we found about 14 percent recruitment at that point, we 49 found 13 this time around, which, compared to historic 50






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1 levels which have been in the upper single digits, 2 right around 10 percent, this is certainly encouraging 3 results. It's hard to say exactly what that is meant 4 in terms of abundance but like Tom said, you know, we 5 hear those reports from other folks too that it seems 6 like they're seeing more moose and the population seems 7 to be doing a little bit better and all that is, you 8 know, that glimmer of hope that we see now, you know, 9 30 years after the initial decline and then the habitat

10 is allowing for that population to again potentially 11 see some growth. So we'll be keeping an eye on that as 12 time goes on and try and get out there to do an 13 abundance survey here in our next round of moose 14 surveys and all that. 15 16 But, again, we also did spring 17 recruitment surveys in 22C and that, again, was very 18 encouraging, we had 19 percent recruitment, which for a 19 population of moose in 22 is excellent. We'll be 20 keeping a close eye on that because, again, we're in a 21 situation where we don't want to have too many moose on 22 the landscape given the nature of the habitat if we 23 allowed the population to exceed what is reasonably 24 sustainable moving forward, we stand to, you know, 25 negatively impact the habitat and then find ourselves 26 in a situation where we're having to rebuild and act 27 conservatively for a number of years. 28 29 And then kind of -- let's see, I guess 30 a quick update on brown bear harvest in the unit. We 31 -- I think I mentioned it yesterday we took a record 32 number of bears out of the unit in 2017 and '18, the 33 total harvest was 132 bears, 47 of those were taken 34 during the fall season and 83 of those were taken 35 during the spring season. So I think you all remember 36 snow conditions were excellent, folks were able to 37 travel throughout the unit well into May. Looking back 38 over the sealing certificates we had animals that were 39 harvested on SnoGos as late as May 27th. So that 40 spring season persisted for maybe longer than usual 41 especially in Unit 22C, and that certainly allowed for 42 a great deal of opportunity as hunters went out in the 43 field looking for bears. 44 45 Break down by subunit is as follows. 46 47 We took 33 bears from 22A, which is 48 about the norm for that area. 49 50






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1 Similarly, we took 38 bears out of 22B 2 and just as a point to mention here, that was the first 3 regulatory year where we had the two bear per year bag 4 limit in place and it was a slight up tick in harvest 5 compared to what we've taken out of the area 6 historically but not too shocking there, well, within 7 the -- kind of the realm of what's been historically 8 taken. We did have, I think, a total of seven hunters 9 that took advantage of that two bear a year bag limit

10 and actually harvested two bears. 11 12 Unit 22C is probably the most 13 significant change to the harvest of bears in the area. 14 That season was extended at the 2017 Board of Game 15 meeting and last year was the first year that the 16 spring season opened up on April 1st. The long-term 17 average, what is it, '98 through 2014 we averaged about 18 16 bears a year taken out of 22C, last year we took a 19 total of 38 bears out of 22C so certainly seems like 20 local hunters took advantage of that additional month 21 of opportunity and were able to get out there and find 22 a number of bears. 23 24 So now we're kind of, with the 25 regulatory changes that have been made, we've had a 26 series of them over the last several -- or couple Board 27 cycles here that further liberalized brown bear 28 regulations in Unit 22C, we currently have a three year 29 average of 32 bears a year that are currently being 30 taken out of 22C for 2015 through 2017. 31 32 Back to my deal here. 33 34 And then real quick, just to touch on 35 some more muskox stuff. I know we talked at length 36 about it yesterday but I just wanted to kind of provide 37 an update in terms of harvest. 38 39 We had a harvestable surplus of 33 40 bulls last year during 2018/19 of which we harvested a 41 total of 24 bull muskox from the -- excuse me, actually 42 there was a few cow harvest in the mix there, so it's 43 24 muskox total, I think there was three cow harvest in 44 the mix there. So ultimately that gives us realized 45 harvest rate of 1.3 percent, which is following suit 46 with what we've done since we implemented some 47 different management strategy for how we administer 48 those Tier II muskox hunts and working cooperatively 49 with the National Park Service and BLM to share that 50






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1 quota and administer hunts and provide opportunity for 2 residents. 3 4 And so it certainly falls within what 5 we have set out for the population of maintaining 6 harvest at or below two percent of the overall 7 population and more importantly maintaining harvest at 8 less than 10 percent of the mature bulls. That mature 9 bull metric is increasingly becoming a more and more

10 important metric that we're using to evaluate the 11 population, which is one of the reasons why this year 12 in light of not being able to complete a population 13 survey, we opted to go out put eyes on muskoxen within 14 the range and complete a range-wide composition survey 15 because in spite of us not having the abundance survey 16 information to refer to when we're evaluating the 17 population, having an understanding of that bull/cow 18 ratio, what recruitment is, still allows us, you know, 19 to have a handle on what's going on with respect to 20 that population. 21 22 And obviously we talked at length about 23 the situation in 22D and E, and at the end of the day, 24 you know, the metrics that we have for the population 25 of moose in 22D, you know, there's a lot of red flags 26 there, we got poor recruitment, we got poor -- low 27 bull/cow ratios, excessive harvest, all these things 28 are pointing to that situation and suggesting that, you 29 know, we need management action, we need some more 30 information. On the flip side when we look at the 31 muskox population, you know, we've got the 2015 and 32 2017 survey, both of which suggest that the population 33 is stabilized somewhat. We've seen modest increases in 34 the proportion of mature bulls within the population, 35 which seems to suggest that our management strategy and 36 the harvest strategy that we're using at this time is 37 allowing for that bull component to increase, to grow. 38 We'll have more information available once we complete 39 the range wide composition survey this year. Like I 40 said yesterday, you know, Letty's out in the field 41 today comp muskox, myself and Sara and Brynn were out 42 the last couple of weeks doing groups, comping groups 43 of muskox throughout kind of the southern portion of 44 the Peninsula here and we'll have that information to 45 look at and refer to as we set quotas and administer 46 hunts and issue permits and things like that for the 47 2019/2020 regulatory year. 48 49 50






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1 Most of that has already taken place to 2 some degree. We issued a total of 33 Tier II muskox 3 permits for 2019, most of that was based off of the 4 survey results that we have from 2017 and as part of 5 our, you know, hunt administration associated with the 6 muskox program, we did continue to visit local 7 communities within the Tier II hunt areas, work with 8 hunters to encourage and facilitate participation in 9 the Tier II process. Last year we had Staff that

10 visited Koyuk, Elim, Golovin, White Mountain, Teller, 11 Brevig Mission. We weren't able to make it to Wales 12 and Shishmaref but we did reach out to those hunters 13 that had applied in years past and, you know, at least 14 provide some assistance if it was necessary and talk 15 with them about their prospects for hunting muskox in 16 the future. 17 18 So at the end of the day we ended up 19 with 94 percent of the Tier II permits being issued to 20 hunters that reside within the range of the Seward 21 Peninsula population and we have Tier II permit holders 22 in seven of the 11 communities within the range of the 23 -- or within the Tier II hunt areas basically. 24 25 I don't know if I have anything else 26 here. 27 28 (Pause) 29 30 MR. DUNKER: I think, unless there's 31 other, you know, topics that people want to talk about, 32 I feel like I've touched base on a lot of the different 33 issues that we face and we stand to, you know, continue 34 these conversations next year as we review and evaluate 35 different proposals that are being submitted to the 36 Board for their consideration at the January 2020 37 meeting. 38 39 So I feel like I've been up here for 40 awhile and unless there's something else you guys want 41 to talk about, I might call it there, how's that. 42 43 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. We got a couple 44 of questions here. 45 46 Ron and then Tommy. 47 48 MR. KIRK: I've been sitting here year 49 after year since I got on the Board and every year we 50






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1 hear about 22D, how the harvest is and my concern is 2 the non-resident people harvesting moose in that area 3 and hurting our local people, not only the -- we're not 4 only facing the fact of the non-resident people 5 harvesting moose, we're also facing the fact that 6 there's predators out there also. My concern is when 7 you do your moose count in that area, you're not -- 8 you're counting from last year's -- you're taking 2018 9 count into play with 2019 but you're not looking at the

10 big picture of not only the non-residents taking the 11 moose out, you're not looking at the wildlife, the 12 bears and the wolves also taking moose and in the 13 future if that keeps going on to where the non- 14 residents are taking more moose than the locals, that's 15 going to hurt our people in the Sound. Because they 16 wouldn't be able to subsistence anymore because you're 17 going to say that the moose harvest has dropped and 18 we're going to have to cut you off like and take away 19 some of your harvesting for your subsistence use. 20 21 That's my concern. 22 23 I'm worried about our future 24 generations because you have non-residents taking 16 25 moose and you have residents taking 13 moose, but 26 you're not thinking about the wolves and the bears 27 taking additional 8 to 10 moose. That's where the big 28 play has to come in, because our resident people are 29 going to be the ones that are hurt. 30 31 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Ron. 32 33 Tommy. 34 35 When we're done with them we're going 36 to take a break, we're done beating on you -- no, I'm 37 kidding. 38 39 (Laughter) 40 41 MR. GRAY: So, Ron, I think 8 to 10 42 moose the wolves and bears are taking is way off count, 43 way off. Hundreds of moose that the wolves and bears 44 are taking. Hundreds. Hundreds of moose. And, you 45 know, that's why I suggested how do we do -- we've done 46 everything we can to open up the bear situation to the 47 public, wolf situation, 20 wolves to a person, you 48 know, we've done a lot, so what else can we do. And 49 that's why I suggested let's open it up to a no-close 50






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1 season on wolves. In reality bears, I'm a hunting 2 guide, I used to own a reindeer herd, bears are going 3 to be hard to get under control until you start killing 4 females and all the hunters are geared towards killing 5 females. Then you're going to have a change in that 6 population. 7 8 But I didn't want to dwell on you much. 9

10 I just wanted to reaffirm, planting the 11 seed that we need to get the kids involved in this 12 muskox hunt somehow. And you know the thought of 13 designating at least one ox hunt -- one ox to a kid 14 every year and you guys or, you know, people out here 15 who are interested, work with them, you know, I think a 16 program -- hunter safety card, working with the kids, 17 this is how you approach the animals, blah, blah, blah, 18 you know, different things, I think it can turn into a 19 really good program. And there's BLM, there's you 20 guys, there's the Park, you got a lot of players to 21 feed off from so I think you can put something good 22 together. And of the permits, you know, I think 23 designating one or two permits to kids isn't 24 unreasonable for the future of our hunters. 25 26 So, anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and 27 let you breath easier. 28 29 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you, Tommy. You 30 were nice to him. 31 32 (Laughter) 33 34 CHAIRMAN GREEN: And we got Leland over 35 here. 36 37 MR. OYOUMICK: Yeah, if there was a no 38 fly zone those folks wouldn't get out there the way 39 they get those moose. 40 41 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay, thank you, 42 Leland. And Elmer has a question. 43 44 MR. SEETOT: Not a question, just a 45 comment raised by Mr. Gray. 46 47 Is your mandate from the State or 48 Federal government not to kill females, female brown 49 bears because that's where the money is, out of state 50






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1 hunters coming in to kill the bores, continue to let 2 the population grow so that State can continue to 3 receive money from outside hunters. Ask that question, 4 or not a question, but I guess for our cultural, for 5 the Native community what -- in our area, it's been 6 said to us that, you know, leave -- leave the females 7 alone so that they continue to -- the species can 8 continue to grow for your use or other uses according 9 to what our elders have passed down to us.

10 11 Thank you. 12 13 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. Tommy. 14 15 Thank you, Elmer. 16 17 MR. GRAY: So I just want to clarify 18 what I said so the Board can hear my statement, I 19 guess, is -- is as far as bears are concerned or any of 20 these animals, if we have a predator problem, killing 21 the males is not really going to solve our predator 22 problem. And look at the bears for -- since I was a 23 kid, we hardly had any bears and then the bears, in the 24 '80s and '90s blew up to a big number and now -- I mean 25 we're working decades on trying to get those numbers 26 back down. And, you know, I'm a hunting guide so I 27 really don't care if the bear numbers go down. It's -- 28 but I'm telling Fish and Game and the Board that if you 29 want to change the structure of the bear population you 30 have to address the females, so that's the way it is. 31 32 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Thank you. When I was 33 on the Advisory Committee, many years ago with Elmer 34 Seetot, we were sitting in there and I was Vice Chair 35 and I was Chairing the meeting and the question came 36 from Elmer, what are we going to do if we get too many 37 bears and I said, unfortunately people are going to 38 take the law into their own hands and start doing what 39 we don't want them to do so I mean we've been there for 40 quite some time now since that point in time. 41 42 I did want to make some comments about 43 how the reindeer industry controlled wolves and bears, 44 they kept them cleaned out. There was also an aerial 45 hunt in the '50s, my Uncle John Benkie took part in 46 with his brother-in-law Wheeler, they used to hunt 47 wolves out of an airplane. 48 49 Who's the current Chairman of the Board 50






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1 of Game, is it Ted? 2 3 MR. DUNKER: That's correct, Ted 4 Spraker. 5 6 CHAIRMAN GREEN: Okay. He's of the 7 mind that there could be some more done with wolf 8 populations and controlling them through hunting. So I 9 think he's favorable to proposals from this area.

10 11 That's about all I have there, and I 12 think I just wanted to make those comments on how 13 things used to be and an old fellow named Jobe 14 Kokacharik (ph) he was one of our regional elders, 15 spoke the same about bears, he said when a bear came in 16 the area, we took it out, we didn't let it live because 17 it was going to compete with our women out in berry 18 patches or green picking or gathering wood, it was 19 always an issue so they didn't allow that, so there was 20 always that way of doing business. 21 22 And Tommy's right, it's a deal where 23 females are needed to be taken, and the bores, it's 24 hurting that we're taking big bores out, they're the 25 guys that take care of those cubs in the springtime a 26 lot of times and that's what I've understood over the 27 years that I've been involved with this. 28 29 So how do we get there, I don't know. 30 31 But just bringing those points up. 32 33 Anyway, Bill, I think you've done your 34 fair share today. 35 36 We're going to take a break and we have 37 OSM is the only left because we've taken care of all 38 the other action items. Appreciate your time folks. 39 40 (Off record) 41 42 (On record) 43 44 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: I'm sitting in a 45 place I don't want to be, I guess. 46 47 (Laughter) 48 49 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: But I've done 50






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1 things like this before so we will move on. 2 3 Those that are on the phone can you 4 introduce yourselves so we know who's out there on 5 teleconference and then we'll get this meeting back 6 going. But I'd like to know who's on the phone. 7 8 MS. BRUMMER: This is Christine Brummer 9 with the Office of Subsistence Management.

10 11 (Pause) 12 13 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. Well, thank 14 you Christine, I guess you're the only one on the 15 phone. 16 17 So I want to make sure that on record 18 we give Karen direction to work on putting a proposal 19 together that will be submitted a few years, a couple 20 years down the road, a proposal working on a program 21 that will be a kids program and a kid will get to shoot 22 a muskox. And, you know, I guess our vision is to have 23 a bunch of kids go through a program, get a hunter 24 safety card, get an education about muskox, maybe come 25 to this meeting at some point and see the process of 26 this meeting and in the end their name will get 27 submitted and drawn for a muskox hunt and will be able 28 to participate in the hunt that they -- all the kids 29 get to go out and watch somebody shoot it and they 30 butcher it and they pass it out to elders in the 31 community, some process that folds culture and Western 32 society together. 33 34 So anyway that's the idea of 35 designating a hunt but we have to start somewhere and 36 Karen can work with the powers to be to get this 37 rolling and we can act on it and hopefully folks buy 38 into it. 39 40 And I guess OSM is the last on the 41 list, I think Fish and Game had their talk and we're 42 down to the end, so you folks have the floor. 43 44 MS. LAVINE: Thank you. Good morning, 45 Mr. Chair and Members of the Council. Again, for the 46 record my name is Robbin LaVine and I am the acting 47 Anthropology Division Supervisor. 48 49 And I'm giving a very brief OSM report 50






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1 and it does have to do with Staffing, and then I will 2 pass the baton to my colleague Hannah Voorhees, where 3 she will discuss the fisheries program updates. 4 5 So first, we've had a couple of 6 departures, a couple of recent departures, and most of 7 which you should already know. 8 9 Gene Peltola, Jr., who was our Deputy

10 Director, or sorry, our Assistant Regional Director at 11 OSM has left for the BIA, he is now the Regional 12 Director of BIA in Alaska. And we have our Deputy 13 Director, Tom Doolittle, who is now acting. 14 15 We also lost Carl Johnson, who was our 16 Council Coordinator Program supervisor. And he has 17 gone off to the civilian world and is doing what he 18 loves which is photography and all sorts of amazing 19 things. 20 21 That leaves us with a number of 22 vacancies. We have a fish biologist vacancy. The 23 anthropology supervisor division va -- the Anthropology 24 Division Supervisor, the Council Coordinator Division 25 Supervisor vacancy and the Assistant Regional Director. 26 We also have two admin positions that we are waiting to 27 fill. The way things are going now it's still taking a 28 very long time, everything is in various stages of 29 approvals but it looks like we're moving forward, it 30 just takes time. 31 32 We also have some new arrivals. 33 34 You may have heard last time in the 35 fall of our new Fisheries Division Supervisor and that 36 would be Greg Risdahl. And he comes to us through the 37 Refuge, let's see, Greg Risdahl, he served as the 38 Deputy Refuge Manager at Tetlin National Wildlife 39 Refuge and most recently as the Izembek National 40 Wildlife Refuge manager. Over his career he's worked 41 in both wildlife and fisheries management and he now 42 works with us at OSM. We're lucky to have him because 43 he's worked with us before as a wildlife biologist. 44 45 We also have our new anthropology -- 46 anthropologist, Hannah Voorhees, and Hannah Voorhees is 47 an Alaskan, born and raised. She has a PhD in cultural 48 anthropology from the University of Pennsylvania and 49 she maintained a focus on subsistence and conservation 50






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1 in Alaska. She's worked here before. She's worked on 2 the North Slope before. And she'll be working closely 3 with your Council and also Western Interior. 4 5 And with that I'm going to pass you off 6 to Hannah Voorhees. 7 8 MS. VOORHEES: Thank you, Robbin. Good 9 morning, Mr. Chair and Members of the Council.

10 11 This is a brief update for three 12 programmatic areas including the Fisheries Resource 13 Monitoring Program, Partners for Fishery Monitoring and 14 the fisheries regulatory cycle. There are no action 15 items associated with these programs today. Please do 16 feel free to ask questions and Robbin and I will do our 17 best to answer them. 18 19 First I will give you an update on the 20 Fisheries Regulatory Cycle. The Federal Subsistence 21 Board took action on the current regulatory cycle 22 proposals during their April 2019 public regulatory 23 meeting. Due to the temporary lapse of Federal 24 funding, there are delays with these proposals being 25 implemented. So the revised regulations were not in 26 place for the standard April 1 start date for these new 27 regulations. In addition, there's been some concern 28 about the timeline for publication of the Board's 29 changes in the Federal Register, as such, the Board 30 implemented a system of temporary special actions to 31 cover approved changes to fisheries regulations so what 32 this means basically is that temporary special actions 33 were implemented that mirror the actual regulations 34 passed and are just intended to make sure there are no 35 time gaps in implementation so that the regulations are 36 followed as envisioned by the Councils and the Board. 37 38 Those temporary measures will expire 39 upon publication of the final regulations in the 40 Federal Register. 41 42 This concludes the Federal Regulatory 43 Cycle update. 44 45 Are there any questions. 46 47 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. Anybody have 48 questions. Go ahead. 49 50






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1 MR. OYOUMICK: Are you doing anything 2 in the Nunalcaw (ph) and Pikmiktalik and that area as 3 far as checking to see if there's fish in the river -- 4 I know there's fish in the river, I just want to make 5 sure that you know that there's fish in the river so 6 we'd like to have that as -- it's probably hard to look 7 through that river but still if it would be possible. 8 I think there might be some kings that go up 9 Pikmiktalik River but I'm not real sure. I've never

10 been there but from reports I've heard there's kings 11 there. 12 13 MS. LAVINE: Thank you, Leland. 14 Through the Chair. That is probably going to be 15 addressed somewhat in our update on the Fisheries for 16 Resource Monitoring Program and Hannah will do that in 17 just a moment so we'll get there and then we can ask 18 you, again, to state your research interest or 19 potentially information interest so that we can keep 20 track of that. 21 22 I'm going to give a really brief update 23 on the Partners Program though. 24 25 The Partners for Fisheries Monitoring 26 Program had an open call for proposals, now this is not 27 for research. This is a call for proposals for 28 partners to conduct research and to facilitate 29 information exchange and developing capacity on 30 fisheries, Federal fisheries management issues and 31 needs, and that call for proposals closed, I think in 32 March and we had a total of 14 proposals received from 33 perspective partners. We are wrapping up the review 34 process and those partnership positions will be 35 announced shortly. There is -- I believe, there was 36 one application from the northern region, which is your 37 region. It's -- it's not for conducting a specific 38 research project but these positions would be excellent 39 people to partner with on research projects such as the 40 one that you're mentioning, Leland, so unless you have 41 any more questions about the Partners Program, we can 42 go on to the Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program 43 update. 44 45 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: So this partnering 46 program and the one from the northern region, is that 47 -- if that person's picked and sits on a team of 48 something, is that person going to be sitting on a 49 committee or something that awards funding for areas, 50






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1 what does that person do? 2 3 MS. LAVINE: Well, I don't have a lot 4 -- I haven't walked through the selection process so I 5 don't really know much about who the folks are as far 6 as they applied. But I can tell you that I was once a 7 partners position, I worked for the Bristol Bay Native 8 Association in Dillingham, and so it's not necessarily 9 one individual person, it's an organization that files.

10 It's kind of like you put out a proposal to host this 11 program and then it's up to your agency, the host 12 agency to kind of make it unique to the needs of your 13 region and you work as a partner with Fish and Game, 14 with the Park Service, with U.S. Fish and Wildlife 15 Service, and with other Alaska Native and rural 16 organizations. So they are -- they are a way of 17 developing capacity. One of the things that we did in 18 Dillingham at BBNA, was we had one-third of our program 19 was dedicated to internships and getting our young 20 people in the region to assist with and conduct 21 research on fisheries, stock, status and trend 22 projects, or fisheries TEK and harvest monitoring 23 research projects and it was a wonderful opportunity to 24 get them interested, get them involved and actually 25 eventually one of the interns took my place as she 26 completed her Master's program. So those are the kind 27 of successes that that program is looking for and 28 targeting. It also provided somebody locally to 29 actually conduct and lead research in the region. And 30 so that's what that program is for and about. 31 32 There will be another call in -- in 33 three and a half years and an organization out here 34 like Kawerak or -- or somebody else might -- or 35 Maniilaq might be very interested in -- in forwarding 36 their own proposals. 37 38 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: So when the 39 partners or dedicator or whatever they are, I think 40 it's important that we, the Board, hear who these 41 people are and that way we can get involved with those 42 guys to find out what they can do for our various 43 regions. 44 45 Okay. 46 47 MS. LAVINE: Absolutely. It's -- it's 48 the -- it's the intent of this program and OSM that 49 supports this program to create partnerships and 50






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1 solidify communications and serve the regions and that 2 means also working quite closely with the Regional 3 Advisory Councils. So you'll hear what happens and -- 4 and where these applications have fallen out in the 5 fall. 6 7 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. Very good. 8 Any more. 9

10 MR. KIRK: Mr. Chair. To answer 11 Leland's question, I'm from the Pikmiktalik and 12 Nunalcaw (ph) area, that's my neck of the woods. Those 13 are my rivers. 14 15 To answer Leland's questions about fish 16 counting, I've been bringing up this issue in these 17 meetings every time we have the meeting. Kawerak was 18 the one that was the head of fish counting in 19 Pikmiktalik River, they had that going and they stopped 20 it because of funding, I think. So that's just to 21 answer your question, Leland, I've been trying to get 22 that fish count started again in Pikmiktalik drainage. 23 24 We have fish going into that river, we 25 have fish going into Koyouk (ph) River, we have fish 26 going into Nunalcaw River (ph), we have those three 27 rivers way up in there, and also I'm pretty sure into 28 canal, they all have fresh waters way up in -- as the 29 further you get into that area. My problem is -- or I 30 think the problem would be the beaver dams in those 31 drainages might be the issue why the kings are not 32 going in any more. But I brought this issue up in past 33 meetings, Kawerak is the one that did the fish count 34 one time. 35 36 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. 37 38 MS. VOORHEES: Mr. Chair. Members of 39 the Council. I will finish up with an update on the 40 Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program, which is 41 different than the Partners Program. And although I am 42 new to OSM and still learning, I would say that the 43 Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program, also known as 44 the FRMP would be an ideal context for generating 45 research projects to address your concerns and would be 46 interested in doing what I can through the Council 47 coordinator to do so with you. 48 49 To give a programmatic update on the 50






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1 FRMP, the 2020 notice of funding opportunity closed on 2 March 15th, 2019 and we sought proposals for projects 3 that gather information to manage and conserve 4 subsistence fishery resources in Federal waters in 5 Alaska. The monitoring program is also directed at 6 supporting meaningful involvement in fisheries 7 management by Alaska Native and rural organizations. 8 And promoting collaboration among Federal, State, 9 Alaska Native and local organizations.

10 11 Approximately 28 proposals were 12 submitted for this cycle and we are in the early stages 13 of initial review with analysts being assigned. The 14 next step of the process is review by our technical 15 review committee. The results of that review will be 16 presented to you at your fall 2019 RAC meeting. 17 18 This concludes the Fisheries Resource 19 Monitoring Program update as well as the overall 20 fisheries program updates. 21 22 And we're happy to take any last 23 questions. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Last chance guys. 28 29 MR. KIRK: Mr. Chair. Is there any way 30 you guys can tie in with NSEDC, because I'm pretty sure 31 they have enough funding to try and get a monitoring 32 station going in Pikmiktalik area, to employ somebody 33 from our region. Is there any way you can get a hold 34 of -- set up a proposal or suggestion to NSEDC. 35 36 MS. LAVINE: Yes, through the Chair. 37 Mr. Kirk. The -- if you recall you developed priority 38 information needs and I believe you approved and passed 39 them during the fall cycle. And I have them here -- so 40 I just wanted to quickly first -- before I fully 41 address your question, the first priority information 42 need that you forwarded was to inventory and baseline 43 data of fish assemblages in major rivers of northern 44 Seward Peninsula including Shishmaref tied to 45 subsistence use with the intent to submit for inclusion 46 in the anadromous waters catalog, so that was one of 47 the proposals and that might actually speak to your -- 48 Leland, your interest as far as wanting to know and 49 make sure those rivers were -- and their contents were 50






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1 documented, so that might cover it. 2 3 There's a baseline and abundance study 4 of chum salmon populations in the Agiapuk River. 5 6 And then there's the coho salmon 7 abundance estimates and spawning distribution in the 8 water sheds of the Bendeleben Mountains, notably the 9 Boston, Wagon Wheel and Perigrime Rivers.

10 11 That's what we put on the priority 12 information needs list in the fall and that was -- is 13 what went out for the call and those priority 14 information needs are the ones that the proposals that 15 are currently going to be reviewed may have been 16 submitted to address. 17 18 When we create and draft our priority 19 information needs through you, in the fall, generally 20 we're doing a call out, so I believe that often the -- 21 Seward Penn, who -- what -- what was the organization, 22 Ronald, that you thought we should..... 23 24 MS. VOORHEES: NSEDC. 25 26 MR. KIRK: NSEDC. Norton Sound Economic 27 Development Corporation. 28 29 MS. LAVINE: Norton Sound Economic..... 30 31 MR. KIRK: Economic Development 32 Corporation. 33 34 MS. LAVINE: .....Development 35 Corporation. They often have a representative here and 36 they're often aware of the call and the -- it's 37 generally through you that you -- you can encourage 38 anyone interested in drafting proposals and -- and 39 anyone interested, you know, in -- in working closely 40 with this group, that they then work together, they 41 form a partnership and they -- they forward proposals. 42 I don't know yet all of the research proposals that are 43 out there. We haven't had a good look. But once they 44 go through the review process you will get to see the 45 proposals and the reviews and how -- where -- kind of 46 where they come out in the mix this coming fall. 47 48 And any of the ideas in regards to 49 research that you're beginning to come up with now, if 50






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1 they differ, from what you put on the priority 2 information needs last fall, I would advise Hannah and 3 Karen and everyone else here to kind of track them 4 because we'll be here again in another year and a half. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MS. HYER: Robbin, this is Karen. Can 9 I jump in for a minute.

10 11 MS. LAVINE: Absolutely. That's Karen 12 Hyer, through the Chair. Tom. 13 14 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Jump in there. 15 16 MS. HYER: Hi, Tom, and all the Council 17 members. I just wanted to jump in and answer that 18 question because we do partner currently with NSEDC and 19 we partner with them on several different projects and 20 they have a whole list of towers that they're working 21 on and we're especially working on the North River and 22 the Unalakleet River and we work, actually through -- 23 Alaska Department of Fish and Game partnerships with 24 them and so we do have ongoing projects and I talk 25 often with Wes Jones and I can bring the Pikmiktalik up 26 to him. We have done research on the Pikmiktalik 27 before. We spent many years counting salmon there and 28 the issue becomes as money decreases, these projects 29 have been becoming very competitive so I think 30 researchers have tried to expand their knowledge into 31 new areas and we haven't seen that proposal submitted 32 recently again for funding. 33 34 So that's kind of where the Pikmiktalik 35 is sitting. But we are always partnering with NSEDC. 36 They are huge players in your region and we share a lot 37 of interests and they're able to work on State lands 38 and of course our jurisdiction is the Federal lands, 39 but we do a lot of partnering, especially with the 40 youth and with education and through the ANSEP Program. 41 42 Okay. That's all I had. 43 44 If anybody has any questions. 45 46 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. So I think 47 to answer Ron's question is we do need to have a 48 rolling list of to do things and let's make sure his 49 project is put on so he can bring it back up in the 50






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1 fall and when all this stuff is reviewed this fall he 2 can say, now, wait a minute, my project is just as 3 important, blah, blah, blah and if nothing else he can 4 get on this year and a half or four years or whatever 5 it is, on that cycle. 6 7 You know I think it's also important to 8 have something from the IRA Council supporting we want 9 this and any documentation we can get supporting it I

10 think is important. 11 12 I do -- I would like to see at the fall 13 meeting how each of these areas fared in the scoring 14 system and where the failing was, if something fails or 15 -- or in -- and, you know, I -- how can I say this 16 kindly, if I get a bad score because of me that's 17 understandable but if I get a bad score because of 18 somebody else that doesn't understand the program or 19 doesn't understand the resource, then I would question 20 why is that person scoring. And so I'd like to 21 understand how the scoring process works at the next 22 meeting and the outcome of how these four categories 23 got scored. 24 25 So anybody else have any questions or 26 anything else. 27 28 (No comments) 29 30 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Rolling. Rolling. 31 Rolling. 32 33 (Laughter) 34 35 (No comments) 36 37 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. Are you all 38 done then -- okay. Now, I have a -- I'd like Karen 39 back here because I do have something I want to bring 40 up that we kind of blew through and somebody in the 41 audience pointed out, boy, you guys adopted this, and 42 so -- oh, I'm sorry, don't run away I think we got a 43 question. 44 45 MR. KIRK: You brought up the issue 46 that I should bring this up to the tribal council, I 47 will address the tribal council on this issue and try 48 to get this fish count going again with NSEDC. I'll 49 have them draft up a proposal and submit it to the 50






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1 NSEDC Board so that we can get this fish tower going 2 again in the Pikmiktalik drainage. 3 4 That's all. 5 6 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 7 8 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. So Karen, 9 you girls just sit there for a minute because I don't

10 know how you play into this but..... 11 12 (Laughter) 13 14 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: .....but earlier we 15 adopted the charter blah, blah, whatever it is and I'm 16 sure we go through this process every year or couple of 17 years or whatever, I don't remember going through the 18 process, I've been here for a long time but I'm sure we 19 go through it. 20 21 So if you look on Page 118 of this 22 booklet, there's something that was pointed out to me, 23 you guys agree with this, and so anyway, the -- if you 24 go start at -- at 118, number H; provide 25 recommendations for implementation of the Secretarial 26 Order whatever that is, it's a bunch of lingo that I 27 don't understand, then you go down to policies and 28 programs, under A, increase outdoor recreation 29 opportunities for all Americans. 30 31 I don't want to see any more people up 32 here. 33 34 Under B, expand access for hunting and 35 fishing. 36 37 Under C, increase energy, transmission, 38 infrastructure, blah, blah, blah. 39 40 So we adopted something that we really 41 didn't understand. And the -- the issue that I want to 42 throw on the table is we've adopted -- I mean there's 43 really nothing we can do about it, but I would like it 44 to come back to the Council and we -- before it runs 45 out next time and we act on it again, we understand 46 this thing, we -- we go through -- if we have to go 47 through it line by line so we adopt something we're 48 comfortable with. 49 50






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1 The other thing is, there's stuff that 2 we cannot change, what are those things. Maybe that is 3 one of those things. 4 5 But, anyway, I would like to go through 6 this again eventually, you know, not today, I don't 7 think we have time, but at some point before it has to 8 be renewed, and especially what can we change, what 9 can't we change.

10 11 Go ahead, Karen. 12 13 MS. DEATHERAGE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 14 And thank you for bringing that up. This was brought 15 up at the last meeting because at the time with 16 Executive Order 13777, we were required to put this 17 into the charter, this was not an action of OSM, it was 18 an action from the White House to put this in the 19 charter. And so there was no choice for the Council or 20 for OSM to -- with respect to this Executive Order. 21 22 I will say, though, if the Council is 23 uncomfortable with any issues in this charter that it 24 cannot change, including Executive Order 13777, they 25 are more than welcome to write to the Board, that would 26 have to be an official action so it couldn't happen 27 today because you don't have a quorum, but you can 28 write to the Board expressing some concerns that you 29 might have with what's required. 30 31 I did read, when we went over the 32 Council, what you could change, it's very limited and 33 it largely has to do with your membership or the name 34 of your organization. Everything from the number of 35 members that you have on the Council, which is also 36 difficult to change because it is in ANILCA, to the 37 geographic representation you have in your Council, 38 which, for this Council is not too bad compared to some 39 of the others, to the name of the Council and to -- 40 let's see there was one other thing, you can't change 41 the 70/30 percent representation for the commercial 42 versus subsistence, but that is a goal, it's not a 43 requirement, it's up to 70 percent and up to 30 percent 44 representation on this Council. 45 46 So those are the things that you can 47 change and regrettably those are the only things that 48 you can change but if you have concerns about what is 49 in this Council [sic], you have every right to express 50






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1 those concerns, you can do it in an annual report, like 2 we're going to meet in the fall, we're going to talk 3 about our annual report for the 2018 fiscal year -- I 4 mean 2019 fiscal year, you can put this issue in there 5 and express your concerns about what's in that Council 6 charter. Because these, in essence, are your bylaws, 7 this is what you operate under, and if you're 8 uncomfortable with it you definitely have the right to 9 express those concerns.

10 11 Thank you. 12 13 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. Very good. 14 So let's make sure that gets on the agenda and a review 15 of this thing with OSM or whoever the powers to be are, 16 you know, again, I sit on -- you can't imagine the 17 boards I sit on and the bylaws..... 18 19 (Laughter) 20 21 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: .....and the -- you 22 know everything -- every board is different and run 23 different and the frustrating thing that I have is I 24 blow over things like this issue here, somebody in the 25 audience had to point it out to me, you approved this, 26 you know, and -- and normally I take the time and go 27 through it but irregardless, all these boards and stuff 28 we sit on, we're blessing or approving our existence, 29 yep, we're going to do the Secretary of Interior's 30 bidding, well, he better come and visit with me and 31 have a cup of coffee and talk to me. 32 33 So anyway I know you're going to beat 34 up on me for beating up on that..... 35 36 MS. DEATHERAGE: I want to make one 37 additional comment. 38 39 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Yep, okay. 40 41 MS. DEATHERAGE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 42 The point I want to make is that I -- the OSM looks at 43 all of you as volunteers and we value that hugely but 44 in the eyes of this Administration and under ANILCA you 45 technically are appointees and just like any other 46 appointee, you are placed or some people may say 47 burdened with having to adhere to the priorities of the 48 Administration that is currently in place. And so this 49 is -- this is something, again, that you cannot change 50






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1 but you certainly can express your concerns about. 2 3 But I just wanted to let you know that 4 some of the boards and commissions that you may sit on 5 might be very different than this because you are, in 6 essence, appointees at the discretion of the Secretary 7 of the Interior. 8 9 Thank you.

10 11 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: And to be truthful 12 no matter what board we sit on we're appointees of 13 somebody and we answer to somebody. 14 15 Okay. So you girls are done, you were 16 ready to jump and run a little while ago, I thank you 17 for sitting back down. 18 19 (Laughter) 20 21 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Very good, no other 22 questions for the girls. 23 24 (Laughter) 25 26 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: You're young, your 27 hair isn't grey, so you're girls, you're young. 28 29 (Laughter) 30 31 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. So next 32 thing I have is the fall meeting. Now, before we get 33 into all the nitty gritty stuff. 34 35 MR. KIRK: We already did that. 36 37 MR. OYOUMICK: We already did that. 38 39 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: You did that, tell 40 me about it. I was gone. 41 42 MR. KIRK: We were glad you were gone. 43 44 (Laughter) 45 46 MS. DEATHERAGE: Mr. Chair. I'd be 47 happy to address that. 48 49 MR. KIRK: We were going off your 50






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1 calendar. 2 3 (Laughter) 4 5 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. 6 7 MS. DEATHERAGE: Mr. Chair. The fall 8 meeting is actually still -- let me get that -- is the 9 22nd through the 23rd in 2019 in Nome. What we did go

10 off your calendar on was the winter 2020 meeting. 11 12 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Right. 13 14 MS. DEATHERAGE: Which has been 15 scheduled for March 10th through 11th, 2019 [sic] in 16 Nome. 17 18 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. 19 20 MS. DEATHERAGE: And that seemed to 21 work for what you had on your calendar. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: That gives me one 26 day to get from California to here so life is good. 27 28 Okay. Well, let's move on, closing 29 comments. Are we at that. 30 31 Ron. 32 33 MR. KIRK: Am I first? 34 35 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Yes, you're first. 36 37 MR. KIRK: Well, my comment is this is 38 -- first of all I'd like to thank the Staff for their 39 hard work in preparing this meeting and getting us here 40 on time and trying to get us home on time. It was a 41 very good meeting, I enjoyed it. 42 43 We didn't do much moose hunt this 44 winter because we had high water, would you believe it, 45 high water over our flat lands, we couldn't go nowhere. 46 We were isolated in our village. We couldn't get out 47 to Pikmiktalik or anywhere to harvest moose. 48 49 Other than that, I hope that everybody 50






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1 have a safe spring and a good summer. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Elmer. 6 7 MR. SEETOT: I'd like to thank the 8 Staff also for bringing me here to Nome. I know that 9 I'm a pain in the rear for them sometime because I

10 don't -- I don't carry any modern technology other than 11 going -- going by what -- whatever family can -- 12 whatever family can support me with. 13 14 As I stated, for us to sit here, I 15 think, to be out hunting you have many people behind 16 you, the community behind you and also State and 17 Federal regulators that regulate how and where to hunt 18 and I think that's been a boom to some people, others 19 would think that, you know, we already had that 20 management system way before Alaska became a state, or 21 at least we were recognized by the Federal government, 22 that was just pretty much technical knowledge that we 23 have carried on from time immemorial and I think that's 24 a big factor in how I say things. Because whatever you 25 say it -- it's going to come back to you some way or 26 another. 27 28 Like I said, like -- like Tom Gray was 29 mentioning something about killing all the wolves, I 30 think like -- like I told Lloyd, me and Lloyd can have 31 a good -- good conversation, he can go and I can go 32 against so that would be kind of like arguing, that 33 would take care of the TEK stuff that -- that we've 34 been so familiar with in our communities and -- and 35 pretty much everything has changed, we -- we do have 36 open water seven miles -- six miles west of Brevig 37 Mission all the way to (indiscernible) and -- and then 38 most of it is up around here so times are changing. I 39 -- I think that we just need to adapt to it, we have 40 adapted over the years but -- but sometimes it takes -- 41 it takes a lot of thinking sometimes just to even say 42 oh, I think we're in this area now, this -- this is 43 something that -- that our elders have talked about in 44 passing and I think we're starting to see it now. 45 46 So thank you very much for the patience 47 and sometimes my word -- word slip -- sometime I make 48 you kind of feel bad but I guess like -- like -- like 49 one young lady say they -- they ask her to use a 50






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1 sleeping bag, no I don't need it because I'm Native so 2 I don't -- I don't know what -- that -- that was -- 3 that was during the fall -- fall trip, they asked her 4 to use a sleeping bag and she was just like no, she 5 didn't realize it was cold un-- until she woke up in 6 the middle of the night and -- and found out it was 7 cold so even though being Native we -- we still have to 8 look -- look at what -- what was presented to us in -- 9 in past discussion with our ancestors and also with

10 what -- what we can -- or perceive as changes in the 11 way that we hunt and do business in the community. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Leland. 16 17 MR. OYOUMICK: Leland Oyoumick. I was 18 happy to be here, it was a good meeting and had good 19 conversations with people. And a lot like what Elmer's 20 thinking, the way we grew up was we were taught by our 21 elders and we were taught not to complain, but we can't 22 help it now because we're being squeezed out. It looks 23 like complaining but we're just standing up for 24 ourselves. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Very good. You 29 guys in the public, anybody have any last words they 30 want to leave the scene with, get the last word in. 31 32 (Laughter) 33 34 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: I have a son that 35 has to -- I'll argue with him and it just frustrates me 36 because he's got to get the last word in, no matter 37 what. 38 39 (Laughter) 40 41 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: This was a great 42 meeting. You know I get frustrated because the public 43 doesn't show up and it gives us something to look 44 forward to, to try and instill in the community, in the 45 board, in the program, some day we'll have a full 46 audience, but today we didn't. 47 48 So I appreciate you guys coming and 49 thank you for coming. 50






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1 I do have a request, Gene worked for 2 OSM, uh, yes, and Carl also worked for OSM, I think 3 it'd be appropriate to send them a letter or something 4 thanking them for working with us. So maybe Karen or 5 som -- you and Louis can get together and, you know, 6 they've been around quite awhile. 7 8 So other than that I am ready to go 9 home and dream about killing wolves.....

10 11 (Laughter) 12 13 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Okay. Is there a 14 motion -- we can move to adjourn. 15 16 MR. SEETOT: I so move. 17 18 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Is there a second. 19 20 MR. KIRK: Second. 21 22 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: All in favor say 23 aye. 24 25 IN UNISON: Aye. 26 27 ACTING CHAIR GRAY: Very good. Thank 28 you all. 29 30 (Off record) 31 32 (END OF PROCEEDINGS) 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50






1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) 4 )ss. 5 STATE OF ALASKA ) 6 7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and for the 8 state of Alaska and reporter for Computer Matrix Court 9 Reporters, LLC, do hereby certify:

10 11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered through 12 contain a full, true and correct Transcript of the 13 SEWARD PENINSULA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY 14 COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME II taken electronically on the 15 24th day of April in Nome, Alaska; 16 17 THAT the transcript is a true and 18 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and 19 thereafter transcribed by under my direction and 20 reduced to print to the best of our knowledge and 21 ability; 22 23 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or 24 party interested in any way in this action. 25 26 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, this 24th 27 day of May 2019. 28 29 30 31 Salena A. Hile 32 Notary Public, State of Alaska 33 My Commission Expires: 09/16/22 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50
