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8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
1/21
Transcription of Episode 10 A Brave, New World
Participants:
Adam B. Levine (A.L.) Host
Andreas M. Antonopolous (A.A.) Co-host
Stephan Murph (S.M.) Co-host
Andreas Petersson (A.P.) - Bitcoinupdate.com
!ustice (!) Listener" #peanut $aller%& spea's or ver short time& appears at
*:+,
Adam B. Levine: Hello everod& Adam B. Levine here. /anna /elcome ou to
this special episode o Let0s 1al' Bitcoin. 2ecorded at the ver end o the
conerence& Stephanie Murph and /ere 3oined or this late-ni$ht roundup
Andreas Petersson o itcoinupdate.com. n this episode /e discuss our avourite
thin$s& our thou$hts& our vie/s and our hopes. hope ou en3o this episode as
much as /e en3oed ma'in$ it.
Stephan Murph: 4otta have the hat /hen ou /rap up the part5
A.L.: 6ell& 0m trin$ to portra this anachronisti c vie /here 0ve $ot the
suspenders $oin$ on...
S.M.: noticed that5 li'e that loo'5
A.L.: al/as /ear suspenders" it0s ecause have this idea that 3ournalism is
this dead art rom a past a$e& and i ou replicate the vie& ou can rin$ it ac'.
S.M.: 7ou do& and ou0ve $ot our ad$e on our shirt 3ust li'e an old-school- ou
loo' li'e ou stepped out o the 89;s.
A.P.: 7eah& it0s crao& he0s not& he0s-
S.M.: ?@& /ell /e have an Andreas5 t0s Adam and Stephanie and Andreas notthe Andreas that ou0re used to5
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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A.L.: 6e0re 3oined Andreas Petersson rom the Bitcoin 2eport -
A.P.: Actuall& it0s the Bitcoin pdate. 1heitcoinupdate.com.
A.L.: 1heitcoinupdate.com& /hich is the /orld0s onl& and est& 4erman-
lan$ua$e Bitcoin-speciic podcast& and ou $us are /ee'l& ri$ht=
A.P.: actl& es& /e do record /ee'l as ar as it0s possile& and so ar /e0ve
made it /ee'l. 6e started out as a ver small podcast as a se$ment in an
open-source podcast& /here there is a lot o eer ein$ consumed. People li'e me
3ust met on the street and tal'ed aout open-source& and the topic al/as circled
around ou can $uess the Bitcoin. So it /as ta'in$ a hu$e share in this
podcast& so /e decided to ma'e a se$ment dedicated to that& spin it o& and
thin' that0s een a $ood success so ar.
A.L.: 6ell& don0t spea' 4erman& ut hear $ood thin$s. ou $us start doin$
transcripts& 0ll e ale to $ive ou more eedac' on our content& ut as itstands ri$ht no/& $uess /e should proal intro ourselves ri$ht no/.
t0s aout& /hat& ten o0 cloc' at ni$ht on Sunda& the last da o the Bitcoin
estival or the Bitcoin conerence ;8+& and /e are all ehausted.
A.P.: So /e are eelin$ ri$ht eore the han$over= s that correct=
S.M.: thin' this isthe han$over...
A.P.: 7ou have to sleep to have a han$over5
A.L.: So this /as a hell o a thin$& /asn0t it= 'no/ that had prett hi$hepectations $oin$ into it& ecause /as thin'in$ that this is somethin$ that0s
comin$ the time is ri$ht& there0s a lot o people comin$ in rom all over the
/orld ut it 3ust reall le/ me a/a& $otta sa. Andreas so ou /ere here
oth as a - /ant to sa #vendor% ut that0s the /ron$ /ord ou /ere here
displain$ or Mcelium& /hich /as reall one o the most interestin$ pro3ects -
S.M.: He /as one o the ooth aes. >o& 3ust 'iddin$5
A.P.: 7eah& /e had nice ooth aes& and /e /ere the main sponsors o this
conerence and /e tried to present our platorm to the $eneral audience and
$et some eedac' on it& so our main product /ill e the Bitcoincard. At
itcoincard.or$& ou can see an inspirational video that0s sort o a vision o /hat
is $oin$ to come" o course& the irst iteration /e are $oin$ to sho/ is $oin$ to e
a little it& let0s sa& do/n to arth-
S.M.: 6hat are the other products= /as onl a/are o the Bitcoincard.
A.P.: 7eah& so the Bitcoincard is the main product& and to support it /e /ill create
a /hole unch o additional products that ou can use /ith it" so the Mcelium
/allet /ill e on the Pla Store& hopeull ver soon& actuall& and /e /ill have
solutions or merchants to use Bitcoin in a ver eas /a& so ou can sell our
products or itcoin ver easil& and ou don0t have a currenc ris'& and ou0d
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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have several conirmations& and /e $uarantee that ou0ll $et the mone ut
that0s a little it ar out in the uture& so ou can0t $et that ri$ht no/. 1he /allet
/ill e& proal& the irst thin$ that /ill e availale or Mcelium.
A.L.: So /e0re $onna have Ale - the visionar ehind that product on& as soon
as he $ets ac' to Mosco/. spent m entire DdaE esterda asicall oo'in$our net our /ee's0 /orth o $uests& and -
S.M.: 6o/& hi$h ive5 Loo' at ou5
A.L.: 6ell& Stephanie& mean 4od& ou recorded li'e iteen intervie/s...
S.M.: ?h no& it0s more li'e thirt at this point5 6e0re $onna have content or
months& i /e /ant it. 6e mi$ht have to release a /hole podcast that0s 3ust
intervie/s& or somethin$ li'e that.
A.L..: 6ell a$ain& the onus content thin$ 3ust has to happen& ecause there0s so
much content comin$ out o this. 6e haven0t reall tal'ed aout speciics&
esides the Mcelium card& ut the people /ho are presentin$ ideas here one o
the $us /ho $ave a presentation that reall& reall li'ed his name is !ohn
Li$ht& /e0re $onna have him on the sho/ his concept is& he0s reall ocused on
cloud identit mana$ement& /ith the idea that Faceoo' and these other
platorms are essentiall data silos that ta'e our data and turn the customer into
the product. thin' that0s 'ind o ovious i ou loo' at the sstem and sa #?@&
/ell& ho/ are the ma'in$ mone=% - /ell& oviousl& that0s ho/ it is. So his idea
/ith this tal' on personal clouds is to unctionall ta'e that concept o #here0s
our identit& here0s all this data aout ou that $oes in the cloud% - it0s all
encrpted& and ou have complete control over /ho $ets to see /hat and ou
essentiall open channels to various people& and it0s almost li'e /hen ou
#riend% someod in this sstem& ou0re si$nin$ a contract /ith them& sain$ #0d
li'e to share this inormation /ith ou%& and ou can set reall rich parameters on
it& too& so mae some people ou onl /ant to e ale to see particular
inormation rom durin$ 9:;; G:;; it $ives ou complete $ranular control to e
ale to do that.
A.P.: sn0t that eactl the idea ehind iaspora=
A.L.: 7es& thin' that /as the idea-
S.M.: 4oo$leI has some o those eatures too& ut not reall all...
A.L.: 4oo$leI& eah so the other thin$ that0s reall interestin$ aout this is that
4oo$leI has this concept& ri$ht& ecept that 4oo$le does o/n all our data& so
there0s that part. But the other part is that ou have to e oursel& ri$ht= So
ou0re Stephanie Murph& no matter /hat it is& no matter /hich #circle% ou0re
tal'in$ to& it0s 3ust that dierent circles see dierent aspects o ou /hereas
/ith this& ou can actuall maintain multiple identities& and use appliation-
speciic identities in certain scenarios /here the0re advanta$eous& so ou can
have one that has a real name associated /ith it that is our real name& and ithas our medical records in it& and so ou $o to the doctor& and instead o them
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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havin$ our medical records or the rest o our lie& instead ou can sa #?@&
here are m medical records& and ou can have them or si das& and then ater
that the0re no lon$er reall relevant to ou.%
A.P.: So i ou are usin$ this as a tool& 0m $uessin$ that0s 'ind o missin$ the
point& ecause i ou0re usin$ one tool to mana$e all these identities& the arestill lin'ed phsicall& ecause the are on one machine to$ether.
A.L.: 6ell& no& actuall& /e0re $onna have !ohn on the sho/ prett Juic'. He0s
actuall local to me& he0s onl aout ort miles a/a rom /here record" 0m
sure he can $o into it in more detail than can& ut no& it0s reall ha& no/ 0ve
or$otten /hat ou actuall as'ed me5
A.P.: ou are usin$ all these identities rom one particular pro$ram& the are
actuall phsicall lin'ed to our computer at the same time& so the0re not
encrpted in separate-
A.L.: 1he are encrpted. verthin$0s encrpted& and /hat happens is that
essentiall ou0ve $ot all our data stored encrpted on our machine& and
there0s a ac'up that lives in the cloud& and that ac'up snchronises /ith
everthin$ else. So it0s li'e /hen ou /or' /ith 4oo$le do a lot o thin$s /ith
4oo$le rive& and /hen /or' /ith that& it stas in the cloud" it starts in the
cloud& uild it in the cloud& it stas in the cloud and then can access it& so
don0t actuall have a local cop most o the time& /hereas /ith this ou do have
a local cop. So an/a& that /as one o the interestin$ thin$s that came out o
this. Andreas& /hat /as our avourite thin$ at the conerence=
A.P.: thin' /hat /as most impressed /ith /as the amount o ne/ innovation
$oin$ on" so ri$ht eore the conerence& /as reall pumped& and said #/o/& 0m
so ecited& this is $oin$ to e 0m loo'in$ or/ard to this and this pro3ect% -
li'ed most& actuall& the Lamassu B1C& the Bitcoin A1M. thin' the have a real
practical solution to all these 'ind o prolems.
S.M.: sa/ those $us& the live near me in >e/ Hampshire.
A.P.: 7eah& eah& thin' the have a reall convincin$ stor to rin$ this to the
mar'et& and o course& on the technical side or me& this /as the onl tal'
attended it /as aout H /allets& hierarchical deterministic /allets. 1his DisE$oin$ to ma'e Bitcoin reall more usale once this /as implemented in the /allet
sot/are& so 0m loo'in$ or/ard to it.
S.M.: 6hat does that mean=
A.P.: H /allets asicall means that ou don0t have to ac'up our /allet ever
time ou send a transaction - ecause ri$ht no/& i ou are usin$ Bitcoin-Jt& the
/a it /or's is ou have a 'e pool& and that 'e pool $ets depleted i ou do a
lot o transactions so then our ac'up $ets invalid& ecause our ne/ 'es are
not in this ac'up anmore.
A.L.: So /hat ou0re sain$ is& i use G; let0s sa the uer is G; -
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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A.P.: 7eah& eactl.
A.L.: ?@& so the uer is G;=
A.P.: 1he uer is 8;; deault.
A.L.: 1he uer is 8;;. ?@& so i the uer0s 8;;& ou0re sain$ that et/een thetime /hen ac'up m /allet& i then $enerate a hundred more addresses& then
ater that point& those are no lon$er actuall recoverale unless ou reresh the
ac'up.
A.P.: 7eah& and ou have to e a/are that ou are also $eneratin$ addresses
/hen sendin$ mone and /hen receivin$ mone& ecause ou have to $enerate
the chan$e addresses.
A.L.: So it0s transactions& almost=
A.P.: 7eah& it0s transactions.
A.L.: ?h& reall& so then there0s onl a uer o one hundred transactions
et/een ac'ups=
A.P.: 7eah& ac' and orth actuall& ecause ou0re $eneratin$ addresses /hen
ou0re receivin$ somethin$& i ou0re activel doin$ that& ut ou are
automaticall $eneratin$ ne/ addresses /hen ou are receivin$ chan$e.
A.L.: thin' need to reresh m ac'up5
A.P.: 7eah& asolutel& asolutel. So Bitcoin-Jt needs re$ular ac'ups& actuall&all the time. So H /allets& once that0s implemented& ou can ac'up 3ust one
seed and the /a it /or's is it $enerates ne/ pulic 'es and ne/ private 'es&
and it can actuall do anc tric's li'e creatin$ a ne/ seed rom the master seed&
that is& or one department o a compan& and each department can use its o/n
private seed and the C? o the compan can use the master seed to spend all
departments0 inances. Somethin$ li'e that& so ou can ima$ine that.
A.L.: 6hat does the H stand or=
A.P.: Hierarchical deterministic& so deterministic /allet means ou have a seed
and all the 'es are $enerated rom that" and hierarchical means that ou cancreate a tree structure& then $enerate a unch o private 'es and associated
pulic 'es. So the most common use 'es /ill e #0m a shop& /ant to accept
itcoin% - and then put m master pulic 'e into a pulic sot/are that0s
runnin$ some/here on the net& that doesn0t need to e ver secure& ecause
nood can access our unds& ut ou can $enerate a ne/ address or each
customer& or eample& /ithout an troule& on this remote machine /hich is not
ver secure and then ou0re receivin$ the mone and spendin$ them let0s sa&
rom our paper ac'up& or /hatever. Peter 6uille& the core developer& is /or'in$
on that& and a lot o pro$rams hard/are vendors also& and hopeull also the
Bitcoincard /ill pic' that up that0s not a promise& ut hope -
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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A.L.: Li'e sa& /e0re tal'in$ ver late at ni$ht& so ta'e everthin$ at ace-value
here. So Stephanie& ou0re here /ith a ton o dierent pro3ects& and ou0ve een
$eneratin$ incredile content. 7ou said that ou did thirt intervie/s /ho do
ou thin' /as our avourite intervie/= (!.". groans) 'no/& it0s li'e as'in$ ou
to pic' our DavouriteE children /ith the people here. ?@& let0s 3ust do a top three.
S.M.: 7eah& ?@. 4avin tal'ed to 4avin& that /as reall cool. sort o had an
#in%& ecause 'ne/ him& ecause he /as riends ?@& so 0m involved /ith this
radio sho/ called Free 1al' Live& /e actuall roadcasted toni$ht& here rom the
conerence& and an and Mar'& the main hosts o Free 1al' Live& had met 4avin
ac' in ;8;& or somethin$ li'e that& to have lunch /ith him and tal' aout
itcoins and thin' he prett much convinced them to $et on oard& so 'inda
'ne/ him that /a& and he also lives in the to/n /here /ent to colle$e& so /e
tal'ed aout that stu a little it& ut /e also tal'ed aout a lot o other stu. He
said he0s mostl a liertarian& and that /as cool. al/as li'e it /hen $et people
to admit the0re liertarians& ecause am.
A.P.: ?n the Bitcoin conerence& ou 'ind o have to sa that. $ot in some heav
discussions& actuall& ecause /ould not sa 0m this lael or that lael& ut 0m
certainl not strai$ht-out liertarian.
A.L.: 6e actuall tal'ed aout this on Free 1al' Live /hen /as on or m rie
period o time-
S.M.: 0m not reerrin$ to& li'e& the Liertarian part& or an political part& or
anthin$ li'e that" 3ust someod /ho values human reedom& asicall.
A.L.: 7eah& the laels do $et conusin$.
A.P.: thin' laels are dan$erous. Laels put ou into corners& and limit ou in
our ima$ination.
S.M.: But /hat do ou call oursel& to succinctl descrie our vie/s=
A.L.: $o /ith sociall conservative & and (laughter from !.". and A.P.)0m sorr&
$o /ith iscall conservative and sociall lieral.
S.M.: (laughing)1he complete opposite Do /hat descries ouE5
A.L.: 7eah& eah& it0s ver late.
A.P.: $o /ith >oam Choms'.
A.L.: >oam Choms'& ?@& sure& 0ll u that. (#o !.".) So that /as numer one or
ou& do ou have an others=
S.M.: 7eah& ?@& let me thin' /ho else intervie/ed oh m $od...
A.L.: Puttin$ ou on the spot& here...
S.M.: Some o m intervie/s /ere Juite short - /ould0ve li'ed more time to tal'to the people& ut that0s ine& $uess $ot some names. tal'ed to Mi'e Hearn
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8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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people /ho had 3ust surrounded him& moed him& and it lasted or& li'e& a hal
hour. 1here /ere people /ith cameras& holdin$ DthemE up" it /as li'e it /as a
celerit& and it0s li'e& #/o/& this is such a contrar thin$.% 6e0re in this real-
/orld place& ut it0s so notthe real /orld& /e0ve ta'en it over and it0s 3ust people
li'e us.
A.P.: 2eerrin$ to that sel-selection ou previousl mentioned& thin' that0s a
ver hard path to actuall ollo/" ou have to 'no/ a lot aout a numer o
topics to e reall enthusiastic aout Bitcoin& and most people $ive up hal/a
and sa #/ell& that0s DaE cra
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A.L.: So& /hile /as here& /e sa/ at least three documentaries ein$ shot
dierent $roups. don0t 'no/ i anone else has seen it& ut there0s a
documentar aout competitive Scrale plaers called 6ord 6ars that came out
a couple ears a$o& has anod seen this= >o=
S.M.: am not nerd enou$h or that& ut it sounds a/esome.
A.L.: 6e /ent throu$h a period o time& m /ie and /ho is our en$ineer -
S.M.: She0s noddin$5
A.L.: - /here /e /ere /atchin$ a lot o documentaries& ecause /atchin$
anthin$ else /as a little it stupid& it seemed at the time a$ain& it0s one o
those thin$s /here the su3ect almost doesn0t matter. 6hat matters is that the
people have the passion& and the have the appreciation o it& and ou $et
enou$h o those people to$ether& then ou can do reall insane thin$s. And
a$ain& tin$ it ac' to Bitcoin rin$ this up ecause the $u /ho made thatdocumentar is no/ ma'in$ a documentar tal'in$ aout& essentiall& the an'
o international settlement and all o the various /as that it is inluencin$ -
thin' he said the title is #6ho 6ants 1o Be A 1rillionaire%& or somethin$ li'e that
and it0s aout Bitcoin& and the Bitcoin is the continuit that ties it all to$ether
ou 'no/& ties to$ether ho/ these decisions are made on a $loal scale. 1hat
/as one o them& there /ere a couple o others this one called somethin$ aout
the #revolution%& those $us /ere around a lot 21 /as here& etensivel doin$
intervie/s-
S.M.: 7eah& the $ot Andreas Antonopolous on camera and he said he didn0t
pimp the podcast5
A.L.: ?h& he didn0t pimp the podcast5 6ell& that0s ?@& the $ot me on& and all did
/as pimp the podcast5
S.M.: A/esome& ?@& $ood& 0m $lad5 So there0s a lot o 1.
A.L.: 1here0s a lot o 1.
A.P.: And the rise and rise o Bitcoin that /ill e interestin$ too. So there are
4erman $us doin$ a $reat Bitcoin documentar as /ell. 1he are $oin$ across
thin' the couldn0t attend the conerence ecause o their lac'in$ donations& somae i ou0re here& ou should $et to theitcoindocumentar.or$ the are
$reat $us& ou should support them.
A.L.: 7es& /hat /as the 2L a$ain=
A.P.: thin' it /as theitcoindocumentar.or$.
A.L.: theitcoindocumentar.or$. ?@& $reat& /e0ll have to chec' that out. id ou
$us /atch the 'enote=
S.M.: >o.
A.P.: >o.
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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S.M.: /as at the ooth that /as /or'in$ at /ith these non-proit or$anisations&
and it /as pac'ed durin$ the /hole 'enote& couldn0t $et a/a.
A.L.: So& /atched the 'enote& and it /as painul and understand /h it too'
me a /hile to $et it understand /h the oundation chose to eature the
6in'levoss t/ins as the 'enote spea'ers& even thou$h the didn0t deliver a ver$ood speech an real standard& ut it0s ecause the rin$ to the mainstream
press almost a sense o le$itimac& ecause or some reason& havin$ a lot o
mone& re$ardless o ho/ ou $ot that mone& is a source o ein$ #ri$ht% in our
particular culture. don0t a$ree /ith that& and thin' that& rom the perspective o
it ein$ a 'enote speech& it /as a ver poor choice& ut rom an optics
perspective loo'in$ at it throu$h the lens o the mainstream media once ou
start readin$ the covera$e& read a stor on C->1 and some/here else too and
the Juoted mae t/o sentences rom the tal'& ut it /as all aout the act that
these people /ere investin$ mone into it.
>o/& that ein$ said& the /a the0re investin$ mone into it is one o the ver
e/ /as that le$itimatel consider hoardin$ ecause their /hole strate$ /as
to u itcoins& stic' them onto lash drives& and put them into distriuted an's0
sae deposits around the countr" /hich is $reat and all& ut it ma'es it
impossile or ou to ever spend it& so there0s not even reall the chance o that
happenin$& and thin' that that0s a little it dum.
S.M.: 6ell& on the other hand& it drives the price o itcoins up -
A.P.: consider that le$itimate& ecause ri$ht no/ sure& ou can u our pi
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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S.M.: thin' people reall $ripe aout that. But ultimatel& i it0s someod
itcoins& /hatever the /anna do /ith them" 0m not here to tell them /hat to do.
A.L.: 6ell& the had to u the itcoins rom someod& so $uess /hatever their
investment meant actuall /ent ac' into someod0s poc'ets /ho /as holdin$
itcoins eore.
S.M: 7eah& and someod had to a$ree to sell them& so the0ve named their price
and the $ot it that /as a voluntar transaction& so 0m not aout to $et in the
middle o that -
A.L.: Fair enou$h.
S.M.: ?ne thin$ heard aout their speech /as that the said #it0s time to come
to the eds and tr to $et them to re$ulate Bitcoin%.
A.L.: 6ell& that /as a i$ thin$ here& there /ere a lot o people representin$ the
it0s not reall liertarian& it0s almost li'e anarcho-capitalist vie/point o
re$ulation& /hich is #$et the hell out%.
S.M.: 7eah& that0s me. a$ree.
A.L.: And then there0s the other camp& that0s li'e #this is $onna happen one /a
or another& /ith or /ithout us& so it0s etter i /e0re in a conversation than not%.
But Stephanie& 0m curious DaoutE /hat ou thin' to a certain etent& isn0t
participatin$ in the sstem le$itimisin$= Sain$ that #es& re$ulators& ou have
authorit over this% - is that a positive thin$& or is that a ne$ative thin$& or do ou
thin' that it0s -
S.M.: ?h& ne$ative - the onl thin$ the could possil do to help Bitcoin is to $et
out o it& and can 'inda understand& or relate& to these companies /ho DhaveE
invested a lot into Bitcoin start-up usinesses& or /hatever& and the0re
uncertain& and the0re araid& ecause /hat the0re araid o is that there0s $onna
e some 'ind o ne/ re$ulation that comes do/n that0s reall $onna hurt their
usiness& that the0re $onna have no sa over and that suc's /hen ou0ve
invested a lot o time into a start-up. So $et /h the /ant it to happen& and
the /ant to have a sa in it& and the /ant some clarit aout /hat0s $onna e
reJuired o them& ecause the see it as inevitale& ut a$ain& thin' the0re
missin$ the point that the est thin$ that the eds could do is step out o the /a.
And ho/ are the actuall $oin$ to even re$ulate Bitcoin unctionall= t0s one o
those thin$s that 3ust lends itsel to decentrali
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and sas #?@& /ell& i it0s le$al& then sure& /e0re $onna provide this service%& and
ran'l oselete Bitnstant& ecause Bitnstant or BitPa or reall an o these
thin$s& the0re reall all /or'around companies ased on the idea that the le$ac
sstem /on0t interace /ith us& so thereore /e0re $onna create this sstem
/here ou 3ump throu$h all these hoops -
S.M.: 6ell& it /ould enrich the entrenched interest& and the i$ usinesses& and it
/ould empoverish the Bitcoin startups and the small $us& and a$ain& thin'
these Bitcoin startups /ho are as'in$ or re$ulation are 'inda missin$ the point
that the came aout and the sprun$ up in an environment that /as totall ree&
and the less ree it $ets& the more diicult it0s $oin$ to e or ne/ Bitcoin startups
to come out& and or ran'l technolo$ to push or/ard& and ne/
technolo$ies to come out.
A.P.: a$ree& eah& and thin' that it0s a ver valuale thin$ to have Bitcoin as a
standalone currenc that0s not even reco$nised as a currenc& so it0s 3ust DthatE
/e are sendin$ these unn internet to'ens& and on top o that ou can do all
'inds o innovative ne/ services& and thin' that0s reall $oin$ to provide a value
or humanit. t0s unn to sa it li'e that.
S.M.: o ou /anna tal' aout other themes at the conerence& anthin$ li'e
that=
A.L.: 7eah& did ou identi an=
S.M.: 7eah& $uess one thin$ that came out to me /as it0s een a /hile& at least
in the S& since there0s een a period o real economic prosperit and
deinitel $ot this sense o& almost reminiscent o the dot com era& and in act
Bitcoin has een compared this /ee'end to the internet in 899" /e0re at the
leedin$ ed$e o technolo$& /e0re the irst adopters& and /e0re $onna all ma'e
an' out o this& or ecome reall successul& or e reall amous& or /hatever
and people /ere partin$ alreadyecause o that& and asicall epectin$ this to
happen. So /hen see that& share in that 3uilation& totall& and thin' this is
hu$e it0s a hu$e deal& oviousl. 0m also a little cautious& ecause 'no/ not all
o these itcoin startups are $onna succeed some startups do ail -
A.L.: !omestartups do ail& haha. Most startups do ail.
S.M.: Most startups do ail& 9;5
A.P.: A G; chance o echan$es ailin$.
A.L.: G;= >o/ that0s a a'e numer. 1he cited that numer& it /as #+ o
echan$es ail and ta'e mone /ith them%& ut there0s a + mar$in o error.
S.M.: So it could e an/here rom ;-K;=
A.L.: actl& ;-K;5
A.P.: have some practical eperience /ith that. A lot o m mone $ot lo/na/a.
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A.L.: ?h& that0s too ad& /here /ere ou in=
A.P.: ?h& /ell& 'ind o& all o them= thin' it0s m 3o to 'no/ the itcoin space&
tr all the thin$s. So $ot shut do/n all the thin$s& o course. >ot all the
mone& o course. 1he most recent one /as Bitcoin.com that /as run a
4erman $u& ut thin' there is a decent chance that some da mi$ht $et someo m iat mone that /as tied up ac'.
S.M.: hope so.
A.P.: 7eah& hope so too5
S.M.: 1here0s a lot o ris' in this space& and /hen ou see the i$ successes and
ou see the i$ ooms& it0s eas to or$et aout the ris' that0s there& and to 'eep
a perspective" it0s eas to $et super-ecited and sa #oh eah& /e0re $uaranteed
to succeed%& ut that0s not the realit a lot can happen and that0s ?@& ecause
ultimatel /e0re in a process o $ro/th" /e0re in a process o i$urin$ out /hatthe mar'et actuall /ants& in terms o Bitcoin& and /hat 'inds o ne/
technolo$ies can e rou$ht to the ore and that0s ?@& that0s all the process o
$ro/th. 1here0s a little it o creative destruction in there and it0s unortunate
/hen that happens not-creativel& ecause o re$ulators& and that0s /hat /e0ve
seen a lot o the time. But there0s also hac'ers& there0s thets" people have to
learn thin$s aout securit /ith itcoins the hard /a& and that does happen& too.
1hat0s a le$itimate thin$. So don0t 'no/& $uess it0s $reat to have parties /here
there are ree drin's" love that to happen& it0s $reat to see people /al'in$
around in suits ou 'no/& oun$& attractive $us& and there0s a loto $us here
ut /e do have to 'eep thin$s in perspective a little it& too& ecause /e don0t/ant to e in a ule and not 'no/ it& and nood has an clue.
A.P.: thin' /e0re not in a ule thin' the potential is hu$e& /e0re $oin$ to
see a lot more.
A.L.: Are /e tal'in$ aout a price ule& or are /e talin$ aout a realit ule=
S.M.: 0m 'inda tal'in$ aout oth& mean& 0cause the price relects the realit
and the attitude aout Bitcoin to a certain etent-
A.L.: >ot here& it doesn0t didn0t hear one person tal'in$ aout the price& this
entire conerence. id ou=
S.M.: >o& not reall& actuall& ecept at the Lamassu machine-
A.L.: ?h& ri$ht& ri$ht& /here the0re doin$ echan$es. 7eah& o course& ut outside
o that& it /asn0t li'e people /ere $oin$ around& $oin$ #oh man& can ou elieve
it0s up to N8G& this is so antastic& /e0re all $onna e rich5% - mean no& nood
reall cares aout that& /e0re all tal'in$ aout the companies that are ein$ uilt
around it to ma'e it etter& and to ma'e it easier& and to ma'e it cleaner.
S.M.: 6ell& $uess /hat /as reerrin$ to /hen said #ule% /as 3ust the
amount o venture capital mone that0s lo/in$ into Bitcoin startups ri$ht no/
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
14/21
some o that is not $onna succeed& some o those companies are $onna $o ust
or /hatever reason& ri$ht=
A.L.: But a$ain& to that point& the /hole venture model /hen it comes to this-
S.M.: -eah& it uilds in ris'-
A.L.: -/ell eah& it uilds in a hugeamount o ailure" the standard model or this
tpe o compan is: ou /ould ma'e siteen investments& iteen o them are
supposed to ail& and the one that succeeds is the one that ma'es ou crae/ 7or'Stoc' chan$e& and thin' /e are /a& /a& ar apart rom havin$ that in the
Bitcoin space& so there is no mass appeal spi'e /hen everone0s thro/in$ mone
at the Bitcoin stoc's.
A.L.: And the other thin$& o course& that0s dierent rom the dot com era is that
the moneti
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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A.L.: ?@& ut that0s m point& that that0s dierent. 7ou can speculate on it ou
couldn0t speculate on the internet companies until the /ere on the stoc'
echan$e& ut ecause Bitcoin is mone& it0s loatin$ value& relativel spea'in$.
A.P. And it0s an 1F on the /hole Bitcoin space.
A.L.: 7eah& that0s eactl ri$ht. 1hat& o course& is the other thin$& is that i ou0re
loo'in$ at this rom a ris' perspective& solel& uin$ itcoin is such a saer
investment& ecause i ou0re investin$ in companies& and Bitcoin ails& all the
Bitcoin companies ail" ut i ou0re investin$ in Bitcoin& it doesn0t matter i the
Bitcoin companies ail& it 3ust matters i there0s adoption overall& and ou still
have that eponential multiplier eect that 'ic's in. A$ain& it0s 3ust one o those
thin$s /here ecause o /hat is is and ho/ it operates& it rea's a lot o the rules
ecause the monetiearl ever sin$le person that tal'ed
to and reall& to/ards the end o it& realised that /as missin$ out not
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introducin$ msel to ever sin$le person that sa/ ecause everod has a
pro3ect& even the people /ho /ere here as attendees /ere unctionall not
attendees& the should0ve een spea'ers.
A.P.: Asolutel& eah. So people came to our ooth" almost everone could ma'e
a speech o their o/n aout /hat the are doin$ in the Bitcoin space& and thin'there /ere onl one or t/o people /ho 3ust said #/ell& 0m interested in the /hole
thin$%& ut a hundred people-
S.M.: thin' that0s it& it attracts curious& active-minded people& and the all
then& as a result& once the understand enou$h /ant to have their o/n pro3ects&
and the do& ecause nothin$0s stoppin$ them& ecause it0s so eas to 3ust start
one o our o/n.
A.L.: And there0s so much to do5 7ou can loo' at this rom so man dierent
an$les& and everod loo's at it and sees somethin$ a little it dierent&
ecause comin$ rom our o/n contet& ou0re ale to 3ust appl it to /hateverthe hec' ou0re alread doin$ and see the /as it ma'es it easier& or etter& or
more eicient" it 3ust chan$es thin$s& and it0s reall po/erul.
S.M.: Another thin$ this is $onna e 'ind o meta& ecause /e0re doin$ a
podcast aout the podcast& ut 3ust to toot our o/n horn a little it /as
stunned at the numer o people - /e0ve onl een podcastin$ or a month&
Adam -
A.L.: 7eah& 3ust a month.
S.M.: -and /as stunned at the numer o people /ho a) had heard o our sho/&) had listened to our sho/& c) reco$nised me /ithout me 'no/in$ /ho the
/ere5 id ou have the same eperience=
A.L.: 7eah& did.
A.P.: thin' our podcast /as /a overdue. ?viousl& ecause o m accent&
/on0t do an n$lish podcast all the time. 6e /ere as'ed multiple times& #s/itch
to n$lish5 7ou /ill $et such an audience5 1here is no n$lish podcast& /hat0s
$oin$ on=% - and ou /ere 3ust ri$ht or the time.
A.L.: 1han' ou or sain$ that& Andreas. ?ne o the most un eperiences that had here /as ein$ ale to meet all these people /ho& 0ve een readin$ their
stu or ears& and have no idea /hat the loo' li'e otentimes didn0t 'no/
their real name ut 1/itter /as such a tool or i$urin$ out /ho people /ere&
coordinatin$ /ith that& and then schedulin$ the meetup. $ot to meet one o m
personal heroes& !ere Paul& /ho $oes Snea' online he0s the $u /ho did a
tal' at CCC ac' in ;8;& thin' it /as-
S.M.: 6hat0s CCC=
A.L.: CCC is the Chaos Communication Con$ress.
S.M.: t0s C.
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A.L.: An/as& it0s a 4erman earl seminar that0s asicall on inormation
securit and stu li'e that. t0s 'inda $ee'& it0s actuall super reall-technical
$ee'& and 0m not that technical& as ar as ein$ ale to loo' at code and sa
#?@& /ell see /hat that does%& ut li'e to hear people /ho 'no/ /hat it does
tal' aout it& ecause that helps me e ale to understand it don0t understand
eactl ho/ it /or's& ut it0s li'e a dollar" ou don0t need to understand ho/ adollar /or's in order to 'no/ that it0s useul& in order to 'no/ its purpose. So that
side o it /as reall ecitin$& $ettin$ to tal' to these people and then on the
other side o it& havin$ people come up to me and sa #0m here ecause o ou&
came to this sho/ ecause o our sho/ and the ideas that it spar'ed in m
head% - ecause that0s li'e m dream. M dream is to help people have ideas
aout this& ecause have so man ideas aout this& and 'no/ that 0m not the
onl one& and that0s ver ecitin$ to me.ist.
So& other people /ho /e met... actuall& 0m not even $onna tr to list them&
there0s too man to list.
S.M.: 7eah& there are too man too list.
A.L.: 1oo man& don0t /anna leave anod o.
S.M.: So man o them /ere reall amae/ 7or'& too& 0m indin$ that /anna $o to that& so /e can hit
that to$ether. 1hat0ll e un.
S.M.: Cool.
A.A.: From 8stto +rd>ovemer& there /ill e the unsstem.net& thin' the ocus
/ill e more political aspects o Bitcoin& and anarchism& + printin$& and-
A.L.: 6ell& the + printin$ 0m interested in& ut it0s the technolo$& thin'& andthe pro3ects that are ased around DBitcoinE the politics& honestl& eel li'e the
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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more /e ocus on that& the less useul it is ecause it dra/s such ne$ative
attention to the /hole thin$.
A.A.: 7eah& that0s true. /ould li'e more usiness-oriented stu& ut /ho 'no/s&
it0s $oin$ to e a lon$ time until >ovemer& /e0ll see ho/ that develops.
A.L.: 6ell& a$ain& there are other sho/s& there are other conerences that are
$onna e startin$ up eore that& so thin' there0s at least one or t/o eore
ienna. So the Bitcoin conerence ecosstem& this /as reall a proo o concept
that no/ is the time& and the people are here& and the collaorations are here
m $od& the collaorations. $ave a tal' on content monetis there& ri$ht=
A.L.: 1he do use F2>s no/& ut the0re loo'in$ to osolete themselves a$ain&
can0t $et into too man details& ut there0s a lot o movement in this space ri$ht
no/& and thin' /e0re seein$ the end o these proprietar tippin$ services& or
these proprietar don0t /anna name names& ut the realit is& platorms that
tr to intercept the value tr to sa #he& come and have a /allet on our
platorm% - thin' those are $oin$ the /a o the dinosaurs& ecause the0re 3ust
totall unnecessar.
A.P.: 6ell& Flattr in particular& thin' that has a use in Bitcoin. 6hen /e startedout tal'in$ aout Bitcoin& a lot o people said #uild a Bitcoin Flattr replacement%&
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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ecause it0s actuall ver re/ardin$ or podcasters to have monthl donations in
a re$ular /a& and or the users it0s li'e the are allocatin$ their cultural ud$et&
so the sa #?@& /ant the ied amount%& and then the are spreadin$ this
amount each month& so the don0t have to ta'e care o all the divisions and
microtransactions and so on. So the 3ust have to have such (unintelligible),some
o them aare removed and some o them are (unintelligible). thin' that0s auseul service& even /ith Bitcoin& ecause ou don0t /ant to send out li'e a
hundred dierent donations to all the tin thin$s ou0re listenin$ and all loc's
ou0re readin$.
S.M.: 7eah& /as $onna sa& is it too earl to start a travel und= the listeners
en3oed our covera$e o this conerence& the could send us to other
conerences& somethin$ li'e that.
A.L.: thin' that0s deinitel somethin$ /e should e tal'in$ aout. But the $ood
ne/s is that in addition to havin$ listener support& it loo's li'e /e0re $onna e
ale to have sponor support& ecause a$ain& that /as the other thin$ here this
is the start o somethin$ i$& and it0s the start o somethin$ i$ or Bitcoin& ut
/e0re ridin$ the /ave here. n the press room& one o the other outits that /as
there is called B1C!ournal. 1he don0t eist et& the start eistin$ net /ee'. So
there0s competition movin$ into the space& ut at the same time& 3ust ecause /e
have a month0s headstart& it0s such an advanta$e. t0s crae/ Hampshire time& so-
S.M.: 0m on 6est Coast 1ime even /hen 0m on the east coast. sta up late.
A.L.: Have ou ad3usted et Andreas=
A.P.: thin' /ill 3ust s'ip a e/ ni$hts& mae& that /ill e ine.
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
20/21
A.L.: 6ell& $reat& this /as the most un 0ve had in a lot o ears. And 0ve covered
a lot o conerences eore" /e0re doin$ this at the San !ose Convention Centre.
covered 4C& 4ame evelopers0 Convention here or a numer o ears& and
there /ere eponentiall less people here& and it /as eponentiall more
interestin$ than 0ve ever seen it eore.
So that0s aout it or this episode o Let0s 1al' Bitcoin.
S.M.: 7our poor voice& Adam& it sounds li'e ra$& so tired5
A.L.: have een tal'in$ non-stop or das. t0s crao/ ou0ve spoiled it. 7eah& asolutel a$ree. And ou should come to our
ooth& Mcelium.
!.: 7ou have to have ne/ users /ho don0t 'no/ that secret& so that there /ill ean audience or the spea'ers& ut the real secret is #don0t $o to the tal's%. 1al' to
people. Meet people.
A.L.: cau$ht our panel& Stephanie& cau$ht !ohn Li$ht0s tal'& cau$ht the alt
coin tal' or the alt coin panel& /hich /as prett interestin$" it had some reall
interestin$ characters on it. And then $ave m tal' on content moneti
8/13/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin episode 10 - A Brave, New World! (transcript)
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male to adamOletstal'itcoin.com. Content or this episode /as provided
Stephanie Murph& Andreas Petersson& and listener !ustice. Music or this episode
/as provided !ared 2uens. For lin's to his /or'& visit
letstal'itcoin.commusic. 6e0ve $ot lots o content comin$ up& ut can0t or the
lie o me tell ou /hat0ll e out net so 0ve decided to stop ma'in$ $uesses here
until /e $et the editorial calendar up and unctional. 1han's so much or oursupport. ou0d li'e to donate to the sho/& please visit ///.letstal'itcoin.com.
See ou net time.
(%nstrumental continues for t$o minutes till end.)
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