9.3 Deposition of Administrative Partner of a Foreclosure Law Firm

SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY CHANCERY DIVISION - ATLANTIC COUNTY DOCKET NO. F-10209-08

BANK OF NEW YORK AS TRUSTEE FOR THE CERTIFICATE HOLDERS CWABS, INC., ASSET-BACKED CERTIFICATES, SERIES 2005-AB3,

Plaintiff Vs.

[FIRST NAME] UKPE AND [FIRST NAME] UKPE, Defendants

Date Taken: Tuesday - March 17, 2009

Oral sworn deposition of FRANCIS S. HALLINAN, ESQUIRE, VOLUME II, taken in the law offices of WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, P.A., Two Penn Center Plaza, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, before Laurie R. Costa-Pepe, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New Jersey, on the above date, commencing at 10:10 a.m., there being present:

ATLANTIC CITY COURT REPORTING, LLC

CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS & VIDEOGRAPHERS 1125 Atlantic Avenue - Suite 416 Atlantic City, New Jersey 08401

(609) 345-8448

2 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: 23 WILENTZ, GOLDMAN & SPITZER, P.A. BY: DANIEL S. BERNHEIM III, ESQUIRE and 4 DASHIKA R. WELLINGTON, ESQUIRE Two Penn Center Plaza - Suite 910 5 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102 (215) 636-4468 6 dbernheim@wilentz.com Co-Counsel for the Plaintiff 78 PHELAN, HALLINAN & SCHMIEG, LLP BY: BRIAN BLAKE, ESQUIRE 9 One Penn Center - Suite 1400 1617 JFK Boulevard 10 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 563-7000 11 brian.blake@fedphe.com Co-Counsel for the Plaintiff 12 13 LAW OFFICES OF JAMES F. VILLERE, JR., ESQUIRE BY: MARK J. MALONE, ESQUIRE and 14 JAMES F. VILLERE, JR., ESQUIRE 441 Main Street 15 Metuchen, New Jersey 08840 markjmalone@gmail.com 16 james.villere@usa.net Co-Counsel for the Defendants 17 18 SOUTH JERSEY LEGAL SERVICES, INC. BY: ABIGAIL SULLIVAN, ESQUIRE 19 745 Market Street Camden, New Jersey 08102 20 (856) 964-2010 X6907 asullivan@lsnj.org 21 Co-Counsel for the Defendants 22 23 24 25

3 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 12 I N D E X 34 WITNESS PAGE 5 FRANCIS S. HALLINAN, ESQUIRE 6 BY - MR. MALONE 6 78 E X H I B I T S 9 10 MARKING DESCRIPTION PAGE 11 Hallinan-9 (copy of Mortgage) 4 12 Hallinan-10 (Mortgage Loan Schedule) 4 13 Hallinan-11 (website for Full Spectrum 14 Legal Services, Inc.) 4 15 Hallinan-12 (LandSafe title search) 4 16 Hallinan-13 (MERS Terms & Conditions) 4 17 Hallinan-14 (MERSCORP, Inc.. Rules of 18 Membership) 4 19 Hallinan-15 (NJ Notary Public Manual) 4 20 Hallinan-16 (Affidavit of Wm. Hultman) 4 21 Hallinan-17 (letter dated 12-11-08 from 22 South Jersey Legal Services) 4 23 Hallinan-18 (copy of invoice) 61 24 Hallinan-19 (Case Comments to Client) 61 25 (EXHIBITS ATTACHED TO TRANSCRIPT)

4 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 (Hallinan-9, Hallinan-10, 2 Hallinan-11, Hallinan-12, Hallinan-13, 3 Hallinan-14, Hallinan-15, Hallinan-16, and 4 Hallinan-17, were marked for identification.) 5 MR. BERNHEIM: You and I, Mr. 6 Malone, have had some conversations about the 7 scope of today's deposition. I indicated to you 8 that it was my recollection that you had 9 represented to the Court that you needed 10 additional time for Mr. Hallinan in connection 11 with documents that the Court had discussed should 12 be produced after the Court's review and after we 13 receive the execution of the confidentiality 14 stipulation. 15 Certain materials have been 16 produced, others since the election to not sign a 17 confidentiality stipulation have not been 18 produced. You have received the letter outlining 19 what those materials are. 20 Our view is that today's deposition 21 is limited only to the issues regarding those 22 documents and counsel's review. However, we'll be 23 able to proceed today without any difficulty. 24 MR. MALONE: And since you want to 25 recite part of a conversation, I'll recite the

5 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 remainder of it. I told you I had not completed 2 the deposition and that we had to break now to go 3 over to the Court to discuss the production of 4 documents. I had other materials with me to 5 continue with the deposition and it was my intent 6 to continue the deposition. I had not completed 7 the deposition and no representation was ever made 8 to the Court by me that the only thing I had to 9 continue on was documents waiting to be produced. 10 In addition, documents now have been 11 produced, so in connection with that, I will take 12 the deposition on them also, and as you know, we 13 did request the Court to adjourn the deposition 14 for a week because of the point in time we had 15 requested documents and they had not been produced 16 and the Court said we will maintain the schedule, 17 so our positions are clear and contrary. 18 MR. BERNHEIM: I think that we've 19 indicated, and there was no omission on my part or 20 intent to omit anything of our conversation, that 21 you had a differing recollection of what we're 22 doing. Nevertheless, let's see if we can proceed 23 here and hopefully orderly and without taking, you 24 know, more time than I believe the Court 25 originally allocated when it indicated we were to

6 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 do Mr. Hallinan's deposition and the Ukpes all in 2 one day and indicated they were to be brief. 3 Nevertheless, please proceed. 45 FRANCIS S. HALLINAN, ESQUIRE, having 6 been duly sworn, was examined and testified as 7 follows: 89 BY MR. MALONE: 10 Q. Mr. Hallinan, this is a continuation 11 of your March 3rd, 2009 deposition. We've been 12 provided some documents this morning and we've had 13 them marked as Hallinan-9 and Hallinan-10. 14 Hallinan-9 is a group of documents bearing Bates 15 stamp BONY for Bank of New York 1 through 58, and 16 I ask you to examine those, and Hallinan-10 is a 17 series of documents bearing Bates stamp BONY342 18 through 369. 19 A. Do you want me to look at both 20 documents? 21 Q. Please. 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. Have you seen these documents before 24 I showed them to you today? 25 A. Just in reviewing the file probably

7 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 a couple weeks ago, I did see a copy of the 2 mortgage which is part of Hallinan-9. 3 Q. Briefly, there are multiple copies 4 of a document captioned Mortgage. I invite your 5 attention to BONY1, BONY15, and BONY43. 6 A. Okay. I'm looking at BONY1, BONY15 7 and BONY43, the first pages of each. 8 Q. If you know, are these documents 9 from different sources, or are all from the law 10 firm's files? 11 A. I don't know the answer to that 12 question. 13 Q. Okay. Just perusing the documents, 14 can you tell what are the differences, if any, 15 between the three mortgage documents that have 16 been provided? 17 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. The 18 documents speaks for themselves. 19 MR. MALONE: He has an expertise 20 that might shed some light on it. 21 MR. BERNHEIM: Well, your question 22 was if he knows, but my objection stands. 23 MR. MALONE: Right. 24 THE WITNESS: I mean quickly, BONY1 25 looks like it's a recorded copy of the mortgage

8 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 and presents the recorded information at the top 2 of the page. BONY15 looks to do the same, 3 although it's not as legible, and BONY43 is not -- 4 does not have the recorded information at the top 5 of the page, comparing the first pages of BONY1, 6 15 and 43. 7 BY MR. MALONE: 8 Q. Okay. Looking at the mortgages, can 9 you tell us whether the mortgages reflect any 10 assignments of the mortgage after the date the 11 mortgages were executed? 12 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. The 13 documents speak for themselves. 14 THE WITNESS: Looking at BONY1, 15 15 and 43, their face pages of each. 16 BY MR. MALONE: 17 Q. The last page, anywhere in your 18 experience, if it had been assigned, would the 19 mortgage document itself reflect the assignments 20 with an attachment or a stamp on the mortgage 21 document? 22 A. I've just paged through BONY1 23 through 14. I don't see any information relative 24 to an assignment of this particular -- on those 25 pages. BONY15 through 42 has more than the

9 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 mortgage document itself. It has other documents 2 also, but again, nothing pertaining to an 3 assignment. BONY43 through 58 has also a copy of 4 the mortgage as well as some other documents, but 5 again, nothing pertaining to an assignment. 6 Q. In the upper right-hand corner of 7 the first page of each of the three mortgages as 8 you've just looked at, there is a multi digit 9 number beginning with 000 and ending with 7005, 10 and if you know, can you tell us what that number 11 is? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. And just below that under the 14 caption Mortgage there is a number preceded by the 15 letters MIN and a multi digit number. Can you 16 tell us what that number is, if you know? 17 A. I don't know with certainty. I do 18 know that it refers to something in regards to the 19 MERS system. 20 Q. Now, inviting your attention to 21 BONY40 through BONY42, can I ask you to examine 22 those documents, please, within Hallinan Exhibit 23 9. 24 A. Okay. 25 Q. Can you tell us what the exhibit is?

10 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 A.. It seems to be an interest only 2 adjustable rate note executed by [First Name] and 3 [First Name] Ukpe, U-K-P-E, with Countrywide Home 4 Loans, Inc. In the sum of $224,000. 5 Q. In the upper right-hand corner, 6 BONY40, there is a loan number. Do you see that? 7 A. I do. 8 Q. Do you know if that's a loan number 9 that's been assigned by the lender to this 10 particular loan? 11 A. I do not. 12 Q. Do you know if that loan number 13 follows the loan and follows the note in 14 particular through any transfers that may occur in 15 the future? 16 A. I do not. 17 Q. Have you seen this document before 18 today, what's been marked as BONY40 through 42? 19 A. I believe you showed this to me at 20 the last deposition on March 3rd, if I'm not 21 mistaken. 22 Q. All right. Do you have -- 23 MR. MALONE: Off the record. 24 (Discussion held off the record.) 25 BY MR. MALONE:

11 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. We're going to continue. Inviting 2 your attention to the last page of the note, 3 BONY42, in the bottom left-hand corner there is a 4 stamp beginning pay to the order of. Do you see 5 that? 6 A. I do. 7 Q. And is this what's called an 8 endorsement to a note, if you know? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Are you familiar with this type of 11 stamp, have you seen this type of stamp before? 12 A. I have not. 13 Q. Do you know who David A. Spector is? 14 A. I do not. 15 Q. Do you know when this stamp pay to 16 the order of and then there's a blank line and it 17 says without recourse Countrywide Home Loans, 18 Inc., do you know when the stamp was placed on the 19 mortgage document? 20 A. I do not. 21 Q. Do you know where this particular 22 document came from, did it come from the law 23 firm's files or from some other source that is 24 BONY40 through 42? 25 A. I do not.

12 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. Now, I invite your attention to what 2 has previously been marked as Hallinan Exhibit 7 3 from the March 3rd deposition captioned also 4 interest only adjustable rate note. The first 5 three pages of the exhibit are the interest only 6 adjustable rate note, at the bottom there are 7 stamped pages Pages 1 of 3, Pages 2 of 3 and Pages 8 3 of 3, and I'm inviting your attention to Page 3 9 of 3 of Hallinan Exhibit 7 and ask you to compare 10 it with BONY42. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. Does the stamp pay to the order of 13 blank line without recourse Countrywide Home Loans 14 appear on the exhibit from the March 3rd 15 deposition? 16 A. It does not appear on that copy. 17 That's correct. 18 Q. Are you aware of any other copy of 19 the mortgage note in existence with any other 20 endorsement than the endorsement that appears on 21 BONY42? 22 A. I am not. 23 Q. Are you familiar with pooling, with 24 the pooling and servicing agreement in this case? 25 A. I am not.

13 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. Have you read pooling and servicing 2 agreements? 3 A. I have not. 4 Q. Have you -- are you familiar with 5 the process of procurvation of mortgage loans? 6 A. I am not. 7 Q. Okay. May I have 9, please, and 8 that goes back to you. Next, inviting your 9 attention to Exhibit 10, have you seen that before 10 today? 11 A. I have not. 12 Q. Okay. And the exhibit consists of 13 multiple pages, BONY342 through 369, all of which 14 have a stamp on them. Each page has a stamp mark 15 redacted, but on the first page BONY342, there 16 appears some printed information in the top 17 left-hand corner CWABS 2005-AB3 Mortgage Loan 18 Schedule. The phrase CWABS, does that mean 19 anything to you? 20 A. It does not. 21 Q. Have you ever heard of Countrywide 22 Asset-Backed Securities? 23 A. I have not. 24 Q. The 2005-AB3, does that mean 25 anything to you?

14 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 A. It does not. 2 Q. Okay. I invite you to look at a 3 caption of the case that your firm brought in this 4 foreclosure litigation in the name of the 5 plaintiff, and does the plaintiff's name 6 incorporate, quote CWABS 2005-AB3, closed quote? 7 A. It appears to, yes. 8 Q. Do you have any idea within the 9 plaintiff's name what, quote, CWABS 2005-AB3, 10 closed quote represents? 11 A. I do not. 12 Q. Tell us what you know about this 13 Mortgage Loan Schedule BONY342 through 369, 14 Hallinan Exhibit 10? 15 A. Nothing. 16 Q. Do you know when it was created? 17 A. I do not. 18 Q. I show you what's been marked as 19 Hallinan-11. In the last deposition you told us 20 about a business Full Spectrum Legal Services in 21 which you are an officer and have an ownership 22 interest. Do you recall our discussion on March 23 3rd? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. This particular page I've shown you,

15 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Hallinan-11, is a printout from Full Spectrum 2 Legal Services' website. Are you familiar with 3 the firm's website? 4 A. I am not. 5 Q. Have you ever visited it? 6 A. I have not. 7 Q. Did you have any role in creating 8 the website? 9 A. I do not. 10 Q. Do you have any role in checking the 11 accuracy of the information on the website? 12 A. I do not. 13 Q. Do you know who in the firm did 14 create this website? 15 A. I do not. 16 Q. The website information Hallinan 17 Exhibit 11 indicates that Full Spectrum Services, 18 formerly known as Foreclosure Review Services, was 19 founded in 2004. Is that accurate do you know? 20 A. I don't have a recollection of when 21 it was founded. 22 Q. Okay. Does this refresh your 23 recollection in any way? 24 A. It just indicates it was founded in 25 2004, but I don't know personally if it was

16 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 founded in 2004. 2 Q. Were you a founding member of the 3 company? 4 MR. BERNHEIM: I'm going to object 5 to this entire line of questioning. This goes 6 back to my initial statement when we began the 7 deposition as to what the scope of the deposition 8 is. Your response was that you had other 9 documents which you wanted to ask Mr. Hallinan 10 about. I'm willing to bet that you obtained this 11 document after his deposition. 12 MR. MALONE: Wrong. I had this 13 document with me on March 3rd. 14 MR. BERNHEIM: Then one would have 15 expected that you would have presented it at the 16 time that the questions were asked about this 17 company. I'll give you some leeway, but I 18 certainly hope we're not going to waste time on 19 it. 20 MR. MALONE: If you recall, Mr. 21 Villere called the court clerk and they said to 22 get over here and we did. 23 MR. BERNHEIM: If you recall about a 24 half hour before we had to go back you said we 25 were going doing pretty good. You asked for a

17 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 short break to confer with your colleagues and 2 came back with another 30 minutes of questioning. 3 MR. MALONE: I did not say another 4 30 minutes of questioning. We were -- 5 MR. BERNHEIM: I said you then took 6 another 30 minutes. 7 MR. MALONE: Til we had the break. 8 MR. BERNHEIM: Sir, the best we're 9 going to do is agree to disagree. Why don't we 10 proceed, and if it gets beyond what I think is 11 reasonable, I'll let you know. 12 MR. MALONE: Okay. 13 BY MR. MALONE: 14 Q. Was Mr. Strain one of the firm's 15 original employees? 16 A. I do not know. 17 Q. Did you hire Mr. Strain? 18 A. Mr. Strain was hired by the law 19 firm. I don't know whether or not I hired him, 20 and then at some point in time Mr. Strain moved 21 over to Full Spectrum Legal Services. 22 Q. Okay. I believe you indicated that 23 you are the President of Full Spectrum Legal 24 Services also; is that correct? 25 A. I think I indicated at my previous

18 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 deposition that I was not sure exactly what my 2 title was with Full Spectrum Legal Services. I'm 3 not sure what my position is within that company. 4 Q. That's still the case today? 5 A. I am either the President or Chief 6 Operating Officer, but, you know, I do hold a 7 position in the company. 8 Q. Okay. Prior to Mr. Strain being 9 moved over to Full Spectrum Legal Services, by 10 whom was he employed? 11 A. Phelan, Hallinan and Schmieg here in 12 Philadelphia. 13 Q. And he was physically located in an 14 office in Philadelphia? 15 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. We went 16 through this at the last deposition. 17 BY MR. MALONE: 18 Q. You can answer the question, please. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Now, okay. I'll get to that. The 21 website says that Full Spectrum Legal Services has 22 a full-time staff of 41 employees. Is that 23 accurate as of today? 24 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection as to 25 relevance. The document says what it says.

19 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 BY MR. MALONE: 2 Q. Answer the question, please. 3 A. I don't know with certainty how many 4 employees there is at Full Spectrum Legal Services 5 today. 6 Q. What is your best idea as the 7 President or managing officer of Full Spectrum 8 Legal Services, how many employees does it have 9 today? 10 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. And I'm 11 not going to give you much more leeway on this, 12 especially since you represented on the record 13 that you had this document Hallinan-11 for three 14 weeks when this document has a print date of March 15 4, 2009 at 10:00 p.m. 16 THE WITNESS: I would say at 17 present, approximately 70 employees. 18 MR. MALONE: I may not have had this 19 particular copy, color copy, but I did have a 20 copy. 21 BY MR. MALONE: 22 Q. The copy you were looking at is a 23 color copy. How many of those employees are 24 internal to Full Spectrum? 25 A. Could you define internal, please?

20 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. As used on the firm's website, it 2 makes a distinction between internally and in the 3 field. 4 MR. BERNHEIM: All right. At this 5 point I'm going to cease further discussions on 6 Full Spectrum. This has absolutely nothing to do 7 with that's framed in any of the pleadings. It's 8 a ridiculous fishing expedition and now you're 9 abusing the fact that you've been granted a second 10 opportunity to take Mr. Hallinan's deposition. If 11 you want to take this issue up with the Court you 12 may do so, but otherwise, please move to other 13 topics. 14 MR. MALONE: We will continue. As 15 stated at the plenary hearing if it goes beyond 16 the pleadings in the foreclosure action, the Court 17 is particularly interested in conflicts of 18 interest which would include businesses Mr. 19 Hallinan has an interest in at the same time he's 20 representing the plaintiff in this case. 21 MR. BERNHEIM: You've already 22 removed anything regarding that in your Amended 23 Complaint.. This deposition was in connection with 24 an assignment. You're on a fishing expedition, so 25 please, let's move on unless you're concluded for

21 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 the day. 2 MR. MALONE: I'm not concluded for 3 the day and we'll make a record for the Court 4 and -- 5 MR. BERNHEIM: We'll make a mutual 6 motion. Let's go ahead. 7 BY MR. MALONE: 8 Q. How many employees are internal to 9 Full Spectrum? 10 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Next 11 question, please. 12 MR. MALONE: Are you directing the 13 witness to refuse to answer? 14 MR. BERNHEIM: I'm directing you to 15 move onto a topic that you have indicated that was 16 the need for this deposition, that there was other 17 materials that were produced and you're not going 18 to start peeling back about the internal operation 19 of Full Spectrum. It has nothing to do with this 20 case whatsoever. 21 MR. MALONE: Under the Rules of 22 Court that I've invited your attention to 23 previously, you are not authorized to tell me how 24 to proceed at my deposition, so please be quiet. 25 BY MR. MALONE:

22 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. Mr. Hallinan, of the present 2 approximate 70 employees of Full Spectrum Legal 3 Services, how many operate in the field? 4 A. I'm not going to answer the 5 question. 6 MR. BERNHEIM: Let's move on, 7 please. 8 BY MR. MALONE: 9 Q. I'm going to ask questions, you can 10 refuse to answer them. Does Full Spectrum Legal 11 Services also go by the name Full Spectrum 12 Services, Inc.? 13 A. I'm not going to answer the 14 question. 15 Q. Is there any connection between Full 16 Spectrum Legal Services and a company known as 17 Full Spectrum Lending? 18 A. I'm not going to answer the 19 question. 20 Q. Mr. Hallinan, you're looking at your 21 BlackBerry. Are you getting any information 22 relevant to my questions from your BlackBerry? 23 A. No. I was just looking at the time. 24 It is 10:311. I was just looking at the time. 25 Q. Okay. Turning to what's been marked

23 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 for identification Hallinan-12, Mr. Hallinan, I 2 represent to you that we were provided with a copy 3 of Hallinan-12, Exhibit 12, yesterday as part of 4 the discovery provided in the litigation. There 5 was -- it was referenced -- this document was 6 referenced in the last deposition. We requested a 7 copy and a copy was provided to us yesterday. 8 Have you seen Hallinan-12 before today? 9 A. I have. 10 Q. And can you tell us what it is, 11 please? 12 A. It is a copy of the LandSafe title 13 report of the Ukpes' property. Attached to that 14 is also a copy of the mortgage and what appears to 15 be called Certificate of Sale, a Charles Jones 16 judgment search, a copy of a tax map. 17 Q. Is this document a part of the 18 process that you described for us in your March 19 3rd deposition? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And would you please describe for us 22 where this document fits in that process? 23 A. In deciding whether or not an 24 assignment is needed, should I look at the other 25 documents that I referred to in my --

24 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. If you want to, please do. 2 A.. Okay. 3 MR. BERNHEIM: What do you need? 4 MR. MALONE: Hallinan-4. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know what they 6 were titled. 7 MR. BERNHEIM: What do you need in 8 order to answer? 9 THE WITNESS: The referral. 10 MR. MALONE: The last two pages of 11 Hallinan-4. 12 THE WITNESS: I now have in front of 13 me Hallinan-4 and Hallinan-12 in order to better 14 explain how Hallinan-12 would fit into the 15 process. The last two pages of Hallinan-4 are a 16 copy of the referral from the clients in which the 17 client indicates to bring the foreclosure in the 18 name of Bank of New York as trustee. 19 Q. What is the date of the referral? 20 A. There's a date on the bottom of the 21 referral which indicates 3-10-2008. 22 Q. And would that be the first document 23 in the process that the law firm receives in 24 starting a foreclosure process, the referral? 25 A. It would be. Now, whether or not

25 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 that's the particular date, I don't know, but that 2 would be my understanding. The referral is the 3 first outreach by the client to the law firm 4 indicating that it is being retained to bring a 5 foreclosure action against the Ukpes. A LandSafe 6 title report would be ordered and provided in this 7 case by Countrywide which would give a more 8 detailed analysis of the property that is the 9 subject of the foreclosure action. 10 Pertaining to your question 11 regarding an assignment on how this fits into the 12 process -- 13 Q. This being Hallinan-12. 14 A. This being Hallinan-12. On the 15 second page of Hallinan-12 it outlines the 16 mortgage information. Here it indicates that the 17 Ukpes gave to Mortgage Electronic Registration 18 Systems, Inc. acting solely as nominee for 19 America's Wholesale Lender a mortgage dated July 20 29th, 2005 and recorded on August 8th, 2005 a 21 mortgage in the amount of $224,000.. 22 The law firm would analyze 23 Hallinan-12 and the mortgage information provided 24 and compare that to the referral which is part of 25 Hallinan-4 and realize that the last holder of the

26 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 mortgage is not -- is not Bank of New York as 2 trustee. Therefore, an assignment out of MERS 3 into Bank of New York would need to be created. 4 Q. The LandSafe title report, I believe 5 you indicated that was ordered by Countrywide? 6 A.. Countrywide orders this and forwards 7 this along with the referral or days after the 8 referral. 9 Q. Turning to the third page of the 10 document there is a fax header with a date of 11 February 27, 2008. 12 A. Is this Hallinan-12? 13 Q. Yes. Hallinan-12. 14 A. The third page? 15 Q. Correct. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. And do you see in the upper 18 right-hand corner there's a fax header page number 19 004? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. And in the upper right-hand corner 22 those fax page numbers continue through 0026, all 23 part of apparently the same fax document dated or 24 with a fax stamp of February 27, 2008. Do you see 25 that?

27 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 A. I do. 2 Q. All right. Do you know who Jeremy 3 Trechock is, the name of the top fax header? 4 A. I believe he's an abstracter that 5 works for Full Spectrum Legal Services. 6 Q. Okay. You indicated that 7 Countrywide would have ordered the title search. 8 Do they order that title search through Full 9 Spectrum Legal Services? 10 A. In this case I believe they would 11 have. Yes. 12 Q. And what is the connection, if any, 13 between Full Spectrum Legal Services and LandSafe 14 Title? 15 A. Full Spectrum Legal Services is a 16 vendor for LandSafe Title Company. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Full Spectrum Legal Services does 19 the courthouse abstracting on behalf of LandSafe 20 Title in some instances. 21 Q. So when Countrywide decides it's 22 going to initiate a foreclosure, Countrywide in 23 this case would have contacted Full Spectrum Legal 24 Services for initial title search work, am I 25 following that correctly?

28 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 A. No. LandSafe title would have 2 contacted Full Spectrum Legal Services and 3 retained them to do the courthouse abstracting for 4 this property. 5 MR. BERNHEIM: I think the point of 6 the question is who would Countrywide contact. 7 BY MR. MALONE: 8 Q. Yes. Contact. 9 A. Countrywide would reach out to 10 LandSafe. 11 Q. And is there a vendor contract 12 between LandSafe Title and Full Spectrum Legal 13 Services? 14 A. I would assume that there is. 15 Q. The title work that was done by Mr. 16 Trechock, that part of the title work that was 17 done by somebody employed by Full Spectrum Legal 18 Services, how is that billed? 19 A. I don't know the answer to that 20 question. 21 Q. Okay. Do you know if Full Spectrum 22 Legal Services would issue a bill to LandSafe 23 Title? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And in this particular case, do you

29 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 know how much the bill would be for, is it a 2 standard rate for this initial title work? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And what is the standard rate? 5 A. I don't know the answer to that 6 question. 7 Q. In your deposition on March 3rd you 8 made reference to a quick search. Do you remember 9 that? 10 A. I do. 11 Q. Okay. Is this -- does this document 12 reflect the results of the quick search you were 13 mentioning? 14 A. No.. I don't believe so. I believe 15 the quick search is attached as Hallinan-4. It 16 is. 17 Q. Okay. And what's it titled, the 18 quick search? 19 A. Search report. 20 Q. And you also mentioned that there 21 would be in addition to quick search a more 22 detailed title search report. Is this document 23 Hallinan-12 then the more detailed title search 24 report you mentioned? 25 A. That's correct.

30 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. The compensation for Full Spectrum 2 Legal Services receives for those two steps, the 3 quick search and the title search, are they 4 governed by the agreement that the law firm has 5 with Countrywide Financial Corporation? 6 A. Specifically I don't know in regards 7 to this. However, it is customary that the 8 retention agreements will outline different costs 9 that the client will pay for in a foreclosure 10 action. 11 Q. And the last time I believe there 12 was some uncertainty as to who the client actually 13 was of the law firm, the name of the client. Have 14 you had an opportunity since March 3rd to look at 15 the retention agreement and identify the actual 16 name of the client? 17 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 18 the question. 19 THE WITNESS: I have not. 20 BY MR. MALONE: 21 Q. Have you taken any steps to learn 22 the full name and accurate name of the client? 23 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 24 the question. 25 THE WITNESS: No.

31 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 BY MR. MALONE: 2 Q. Now, the agreement for signing 3 authority we discussed at the March 3rd deposition 4 made reference to a contract between a law firm 5 and Countrywide Financial Corporation. Have you 6 personally made an effort to locate the contract 7 referenced in the agreement of signing authority? 8 A. I have not personally. No. 9 Q. Have you directed anyone to look for 10 that document? 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Has 12 potential to call for privileged information. 13 MR. MALONE: You're asserting a 14 privilege? I'm looking for a document. 15 MR. BERNHEIM: Yeah. Only because 16 of the basis of letters to the Court that would 17 not permit Mr. Hallinan to freely answer certain 18 questions, you deem that to be a waiver of the 19 privilege. I don't wish to run afoul of that. If 20 you will agree that if I permit him to respond 21 that that doesn't constitute a waiver, I'll permit 22 him to respond. 23 MR. MALONE: I don't see a claim for 24 privilege so I wouldn't argue a waiver. 25 MR. BERNHEIM: Fine. You may

32 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 respond. 2 THE WITNESS: No. 3 BY MR. MALONE: 4 Q. The agreement for signing authority 5 we discussed at the March 3rd deposition also 6 referenced a separate agreement between MERS and 7 the member Countrywide Financial Corporation 8 incorporated by reference into the agreement. 9 Since the March 3rd deposition have you made any 10 effort to locate that document? 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Same understanding? 12 MR.. MALONE: Same understanding. 13 THE WITNESS: Just through counsel. 14 You know, I've asked that they do what's necessary 15 to comply with the judge's order and to obtain the 16 necessary documents, but I personally have not 17 done anything. 18 BY MR. MALONE: 19 Q. Okay. And follow-up question, have 20 you directed anyone in the firm to try and locate 21 that document since March 3rd, 2009? 22 A. I very well may have requested our 23 in-house counsel Judy Romano to look into that 24 with the help of counsel. That would not be 25 something that I would do.

33 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. Inviting your attention again to 2 Hallinan-12, in the upper left-hand corner under 3 the caption general information, there is an entry 4 date request received of 02-05-2008. To your 5 knowledge, does that reflect the date that 6 LandSafe would have received a request from the 7 mortgage servicer to do title work? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Now, the attorney listed a few lines 10 down is an attorney entry and it says Federman and 11 Phelan, P.C.-NJ. Is there a firm in existence as 12 of -- was there a firm in existence as of February 13 25th, 2008 having that name? 14 A. There was not.. 15 Q. The Corporate Resolution document we 16 reviewed last time mentioned two separate law firm 17 entities. Do you recall that? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. Okay. What is the difference 20 between the two separate law firm entities? 21 A. Could you refresh my recollection 22 with the document? 23 Q. Sure. Do you have a copy of the 24 Corporate Resolution? 25 MR. BERNHEIM: I don't recall which

34 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 document you're referring to. Can you help me and 2 I'll see what I can find. 3 MR. MALONE: The agreement for 4 signing authority. 5 MR. BERNHEIM: Hallinan Number 2? 6 MR. MALONE: Right. 7 BY MR. MALONE: 8 Q. Hallinan-2 I believe was two pages, 9 the first page being captioned Mortgage Electronic 10 Registration Systems, Inc. Corporate Resolution, 11 and the separate page listed two entities, one 12 Phelan, Hallinan and Schmieg, LLP, and the other 13 Phelan, Hallinan and Schmieg, P.C., and my 14 question is what is the difference, if any, 15 between those two entities? 16 A. Phelan, Hallinan and Schmieg, LLP is 17 a limited liability partnership which operates 18 here in the State of Pennsylvania. Phelan, 19 Hallinan and Schmieg is a corporation which does 20 business in the State of New Jersey. 21 Q. At this time I show you what has 22 been marked for identification Hallinan-13 and 23 Hallinan-14. Thirteen is captioned MERS Terms and 24 Conditions and 14 is captioned MERSCORP, INC. 25 RULES OF MEMBERSHIP. As an officer of MERS, are

35 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 you familiar with the MERS Terms and Conditions 2 governing the relationship of MERS and its 3 members? 4 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 5 the question. 6 THE WITNESS: I am not. 7 BY MR. MALONE: 8 Q. Do you recall before today ever 9 reviewing the MERS Terms and Conditions? 10 A. I believe this is the first time 11 I've seen it. 12 Q. Inviting your attention to Paragraph 13 Number 1 of the second line, it reflects that the 14 terms of conditions and the rules and procedures 15 are collectively identified as, quote, governing 16 documents, closed quote. Do you see that, the 17 second line of Paragraph 1? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. In your dealings with MERS since the 20 law firm received signing authority, have you had 21 any discussions with anyone from MERS about the 22 MERS and member governing documents? 23 A. I have not. 24 Q. And inviting your attention to 25 Hallinan-14, the MERSCORP, INC. Rules of

36 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Membership, as an officer of MERS, have you ever 2 reviewed the Rules of Membership? 3 A. I have not. 4 Q. As someone with signing authority 5 for MERS in your dealings with MERS, have you ever 6 discussed the Rules of Membership with anyone from 7 MERS? 8 A. I have not. 9 Q. As a vendor of the loan servicer, 10 have you ever discussed the MERSCORP, INC. Rules 11 of Membership with anyone from the loan servicer's 12 organization? 13 A. I have not. 14 Q. And, similarly, have you ever 15 discussed the MERS Terms and Conditions with 16 anyone from the loan servicer? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Inviting your attention to Paragraph 19 2 of Hallinan-13, I would ask you just to read 20 that paragraph to yourself. 21 A. I've read it. 22 Q. The middle of Paragraph 2, the 23 fourth line towards the end there's a sentence 24 beginning, quote, MERS shall have no rights 25 whatsoever to any payments made on account of such

37 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 mortgage loans, to any servicing rights related to 2 such mortgage loans, or to any mortgaged 3 properties securing such mortgage loans, closed 4 quote. Were you aware that the content of that 5 term from Paragraph 2 of the terms and conditions 6 that I just read out loud, were you aware that 7 MERS took the position that it had no right to any 8 payments made on account of mortgage loans at the 9 time you signed the assignment in this case? 10 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection to the form 11 of the question. 12 THE WITNESS: It's always been my 13 understanding that MERS was created to help 14 simplify the recording of documents, and that MERS 15 was in no way a servicing agent as it indicates 16 right here. In this sentence which you just read, 17 it should have no rights to any payments, yes, I'm 18 aware of that. 19 BY MR. MALONE: 20 Q. And were you aware of that when you 21 signed the assignment of the mortgage in this 22 case? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Inviting your attention to Paragraph 25 3 of the terms and conditions, Hallinan-13, the

38 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 first sentence of Paragraph 3 says, MERS shall at 2 all times comply with the instructions of the 3 holder of mortgage loan promissory notes, closed 4 quote. Do you see that? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. Are you aware of any -- of what the 7 instructions are regarding -- what the 8 instructions are to MERS regarding the promissory 9 note that the Ukpes executed in this case? 10 A. No. 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 12 the question. Again, we're beyond what the scope 13 of this deposition is to be about. 14 THE WITNESS: No. 15 BY MR. MALONE: 16 Q. Prior to today, were you aware that 17 the servicer provided MERS with instructions 18 relating to the promissory note? 19 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 20 the question. Are you representing such 21 instructions exist? 22 MR. MALONE: I can ask the question. 23 Can you answer the question, please? 24 MR. BERNHEIM: Do you want to 25 rephrase the question because your question

39 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 assumes that it actually exists. I don't think 2 one way or the other -- 3 MR. MALONE: I'm asking if he's 4 aware. 5 MR. BERNHEIM: You said prior to 6 today was he aware that it happened, meaning that 7 you know that it did happen. I don't know one way 8 or another, do you? 9 MR. MALONE: He's either way aware 10 or not aware. 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Thus, my objection to 12 the question. 13 MR. MALONE: Read the question back, 14 please. 15 (The court reporter read back the 16 previous question as follows: 17 "QUESTION: Prior to today, were you 18 aware that the servicer provided MERS with 19 instructions relating to the promissory note?") 20 THE WITNESS: No. 21 BY MR. MALONE: 22 Q. Are you aware that MERS claims to 23 track transfers of beneficial ownership interest? 24 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 25 the question.

40 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 THE WITNESS: It's my understanding 2 that MERS was created -- 3 MR. BERNHEIM: The question is are 4 you aware specifically of such contention? 5 THE WITNESS: No. 6 BY MR. MALONE: 7 Q. Inviting your attention to Paragraph 8 6, the first and second line towards the end of 9 the first line continuing to the second line, 10 there's a reference to a phrase beneficial 11 interest in mortgage loans. Do you have any idea 12 what that phrase, quote, beneficial interest, 13 closed quotes, means? 14 MR. BERNHEIM: He's not the author 15 of this document. 16 MR. MALONE: I understand. But he's 17 a lawyer and an officer of MERS. 18 MR. BERNHEIM: Right.. For an 19 extremely limited purpose we went through that 20 before, but nevertheless, do you know what the 21 term beneficial interest as set forth in this 22 document means? 23 THE WITNESS: No. 24 BY MR. MALONE: 25 Q. Do you know has Countrywide

41 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Financial Corporation or America's Wholesale 2 Lender or Countrywide Home Loans, Inc. or 3 Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, LP ever been the 4 subject of a disciplinary action by MERS? 5 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. 6 THE WITNESS: No idea. 7 BY MR. MALONE: 8 Q. Has either of the two law firms 9 you've described today, the Phelan, Hallinan and 10 Schmieg firms, have they ever been the subject of 11 a disciplinary action by MERS? 12 A. Not that I'm aware of. 13 Q. In your prior deposition you made 14 reference to the difficulty of tracking down the 15 proper person to sign an assignment prior to your 16 firm entering into its agreement with MERS giving 17 them signing authority. Do you recall that 18 discussion on March 3rd? 19 A. I do. 20 Q. And could you describe for us what 21 the process was before you entered into the 22 signing agreement with MERS, what was the 23 difficulty, what would you have to do? 24 A. I did not ever see the process so I 25 can speak generally on it and the frustrations

42 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 that I would hear from my staff, but the long and 2 short of it is there would be back and forth 3 efforts, first, second, third requests sometimes 4 made of perhaps MERS and the mortgaging servicing 5 agent, whomever, to execute an assignment of 6 mortgage so we could proceed with the foreclosure 7 action. 8 Q. And having a lawyer from the law 9 firm being able to sign the document simplified 10 the process; is that correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. You also mentioned in the March 3rd 13 deposition and again today that after the referral 14 comes in from the servicer, a comparison is made 15 to the last recorded mortgagee? 16 A. The holder. 17 Q. And holder. And if they are 18 different names, then an assignment has to be 19 generated assigning the mortgage out of MERS into 20 the name that the servicer has asked you to bring 21 the foreclosure action; is that correct? 22 A.. That's correct. 23 Q. And that process of having to do 24 that, is that dictated by MERS policy or what is 25 the reason it's done?

43 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 2 the question. 3 BY MR. MALONE: 4 Q. If you know. 5 A. You want to take title when a 6 foreclosure action is over in the name of the 7 holder of the mortgage. In this case, the holder 8 of the mortgage it's my understanding, the holder 9 of the mortgage was to be Bank of New York as 10 trustee. In the referral that's who the client 11 wanted us to prosecute the foreclosure in the name 12 of and that is who was to hold title at the end of 13 the foreclosure process as that entity would then 14 convey it to a third party, and in this case, the 15 title report indicated that the last holder of the 16 mortgage of record would have been MERS as 17 nominee. Therefore, an assignment would need to 18 be done. 19 Q. Inviting your attention to 20 Hallinan-14, Page 14 of that exhibit, Section 6. 21 A. Yes, I see it. 22 Q. I just ask you to read that to 23 yourself, please. 24 A. (Witness complies.) I've read it. 25 Q. I've already asked you if you're

44 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 aware of any instructions to MERS from the holder 2 of the mortgage loan promissory notes and I 3 believe your answer reflects you were not aware. 4 Follow-up question based on this section, are you 5 aware of any instructions from the servicer shown 6 on the MERS system in accordance with these rules 7 and procedures respecting the transfer of 8 beneficial ownership, transfers of servicing 9 rights, and releases of security interest 10 applicable to mortgage loans? 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 12 the question. 13 THE WITNESS: I am not. You know, 14 again, I will go back to the fact -- 15 MR. BERNHEIM: If you're not aware, 16 you're not aware. 17 BY MR. MALONE: 18 Q. Now, I believe you indicated in the 19 March 3rd deposition that members of the law firm 20 do have access to the MERS system for checking 21 information; is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And can you describe for us first 24 off, what is the authority for your access, is it 25 authority given by MERS to you, or do you use a

45 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Countrywide code for access or whatever it is, if 2 you know? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. Have you yourself ever entered the 5 MERS system? 6 A. I'm not too tech savvy, so I have 7 not. 8 Q. As part of the procedure employed by 9 the firm, is there any procedural requirement to 10 go into the MERS system and see if the member has 11 any instructions to MERS posted regarding the 12 transfer of the mortgage loan? 13 A. Not that I'm aware of. 14 Q. You were in court on March 3rd and 15 there was a colloquy between Judge Todd and 16 myself. I don't know if you were present for that 17 colloquy so let me ask you. The judge was asking, 18 I'm paraphrasing, why do I either have to involve 19 with the assignments in this case since under the 20 services agreement the mortgage and note have been 21 previously transferred into the trust as was 22 represented by your firm to the Court. Do you 23 recall that colloquy, just yes or no? 24 A. I don't. 25 Q. Okay. Do you recall, do you know if

46 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 your firm has, in fact, taken such a position, 2 that is, the position to the effect that the 3 assignment merely reflects what has already 4 happened previously, that is, in the mortgage, and 5 note have gone from the original lender up into 6 the trust who's the plaintiff in this case? 7 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 8 the question. The firm doesn't take the position. 9 It articulates position on behalf of a client. 10 BY MR. MALONE: 11 Q. With that understanding, if the firm 12 articulates a position on behalf of the plaintiff, 13 are you familiar that the firm has taken that 14 position in this case? 15 A. I am familiar that the firm has 16 taken that position, although I am not an expert 17 in regards to the pooling and servicing agreements 18 and everything else. 19 Q. Are you familiar with the factual 20 basis for why the firm has taken that position? 21 A. I am not. 22 Q. I don't have a copy of this so we'll 23 have to get them made, but I show you what's been 24 marked as Hallinan Exhibit 15. It's captioned New 25 Jersey Notary Public Manual, revised March 21,

47 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 2003, down loaded from a public website, and 2 previously in the last deposition I asked you if 3 you provided a copy of the New Jersey Notary 4 Public Manual to Mr. Strain.. As I recall, your 5 answer was no. My question now is are you 6 familiar with the New Jersey Notary Public Manual? 7 A. I am not. 8 Q. Prior to today, do you ever recall 9 seeing a copy of it? 10 A. Not until you just put it here on 11 the table in front of me. 12 Q. When you were setting up the 13 procedures for how Full Spectrum Legal Services 14 and the law firm would process foreclosure 15 paperwork, to your knowledge, did anyone from the 16 firm make any effort to determine what rules 17 governed the conduct of Notaries in New Jersey, 18 Notary Publics in New Jersey? 19 A. Not that I'm aware of. 20 Q. Now, the Full Spectrum Legal 21 Services websites indicates there are two offices 22 in New Jersey, is that correct, one in Mt. Laurel 23 and one in Trenton? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Does Full Spectrum have an office in

48 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Pennsylvania? 2 A. Not that I'm aware of. 3 Q. Up until the time that Mr. Strain 4 left your employ, were all assignments forwarded 5 through the Mt. Laurel office for acknowledgment 6 by a notary? 7 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Asked and 8 answered at the last deposition. 9 MR. MALONE: I don't recall the 10 question and I don't recall the answer, but if you 11 can represent what the answer is and he'll accept 12 it, I'll take it. 13 MR. BERNHEIM: He went through and 14 gave you a description as to the manner in which 15 the assignments were processed. 16 MR. MALONE: Yes, he did, but that's 17 not my question. Can I have the question read 18 back, please. 19 (The court reporter read back the 20 previous question as follows : 21 "QUESTION: Up until the time that 22 Mr. Strain left your employ, were all assignments 23 forwarded through the Mt. Laurel office for 24 acknowledgment by a notary?") 25 THE WITNESS: I need a clearer

49 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 question. I don't understand that question. 2 BY MR. MALONE: 3 Q. Let me break it down into two parts. 4 You previously indicated that your firm represents 5 servicers handling foreclosures in both 6 Pennsylvania and New Jersey; is that correct? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Are there any other states in which 9 your firm represents servicers in foreclosure 10 matters? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Let's start with a New Jersey 13 foreclosure. During the time that Mr. Strain was 14 employed by Full Spectrum Legal Services, were all 15 assignments prepared for foreclosure, for a New 16 Jersey foreclosure that had to be acknowledged, 17 were they sent to Mr. Strain in Mt. Laurel for 18 acknowledgment? 19 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Asked and 20 answered. 21 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of. 22 I believe we have other Notaries in New Jersey. 23 BY MR. MALONE: 24 Q. No. My question was were they just 25 sent to the New Jersey office, not to Mr. Strain.

50 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Did all the assignments from New Jersey 2 foreclosures go through the Mt. Laurel office for 3 acknowledgment by someone? 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. Were some, to your knowledge, were 6 some New Jersey foreclosure assignments 7 acknowledged in Pennsylvania? 8 A. Can you break that question down so 9 I understand that question so I can answer it. 10 Q. To your knowledge, were any 11 assignments, assignment of mortgage documents 12 prepared in connection with a foreclosure action 13 brought in New Jersey acknowledged by a notary 14 physically sitting somewhere in Pennsylvania? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And what would be the circumstances 17 under which a New Jersey foreclosure assignment 18 would be acknowledged by a notary sitting in 19 Pennsylvania? 20 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 21 the question. 22 THE WITNESS: If I'm sitting in 23 Pennsylvania that particular day and a New Jersey 24 assignment is prepared and it is given to me, I 25 would execute it and I feasibly could give it to

51 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 one of the Notaries sitting right outside my door 2 to go ahead and notarize that document. Yes. 3 That's happened, yes.. 4 Q. And after Mr. Strain went to New 5 Jersey to work in the Mt. Laurel office, how many 6 Notaries remained working outside your office door 7 in Philadelphia? 8 A. We have approximately ten Notaries 9 in Pennsylvania. 10 Q. And the second part of the question 11 involving assignments involving foreclosures to be 12 brought in Pennsylvania, were they exclusively 13 acknowledged in Pennsylvania, or to your knowledge 14 were some acknowledged in New Jersey? 15 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Asked and 16 answered. 17 THE WITNESS: Exclusively in 18 Pennsylvania to the best of my knowledge. 19 BY MR. MALONE: 20 Q. Now, as the managing partner of the 21 law firm, are you responsible for overseeing the 22 business operations of the firm? 23 A. I am not the managing partner of the 24 law firm. I'm the administrative partner of the 25 law firm and I participate in the business

52 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 operations in overseeing the business operations 2 of the law firm. 3 Q. Is there a separate managing 4 partner? 5 A. There is. 6 Q. And who is that? 7 A. Larry Phelan. 8 Q. Approximately how many foreclosure 9 actions a year do the two Phelan law firms handle? 10 A. Combined? 11 Q. Combined. 12 A. Approximately? 13 Q. Approximately. 14 A. 24,000 to 26,000 files. 15 Q. Would that be representative for 16 2008? 17 A. Off the top of my head, yes. 18 Q. And approximately how many 19 percentage-wise of those 24 to 26,000 foreclosure 20 files involve an assignment of the mortgage out of 21 MERS into another plaintiff? 22 A. I don't know the answer to that 23 question. 24 Q. More than half? 25 A. No. Could you rephrase the question

53 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 so I can make sure I understand your question. 2 Q. Sure. Of the 24,000 to 26,000 3 foreclosure cases handled in a year 4 approximately -- 5 A. Uh-huh (affirmative.) 6 Q. -- what percentage involve 7 assignments out of MERS to a new plaintiff 8 identified by the loan servicer? 9 A. Okay. You cannot bring a 10 foreclosure in the State of Pennsylvania or in the 11 State of New Jersey in the name of MERS, so 12 wherever MERS' last holder of a mortgage on a 13 title report, you must assign it out of MERS' name 14 into the foreclosure beneficiary's name.. 15 Approximately 25 to 30 percent I believe is fair. 16 Q. And the remaining 70 to 75 percent, 17 is it accurate to say that those would be mortgage 18 loans that are not recorded with the MERS system? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. I show you what's been marked 21 as Hallinan-16 for identification. It's captioned 22 Affidavit of William C. Hultman captioned in the 23 United States District Court for the District of 24 Minnesota, and I show it to you because if you 25 recall, Mr. Hultman is the individual from MERS

54 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 who executes the agreement for signing authority 2 between MERS and your law firm. Do you recall 3 that? 4 A. I believe that was on one of the 5 previous documents you showed me. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. And Mr. Hultman is also the 7 individual from MERS who signs the Corporate 8 Resolution authorizing you and other members of 9 your firm to sign on behalf of MERS. Do you 10 recall that? 11 A. I recall that that was what the 12 document indicated. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. Have you ever spoken with Mr. 14 Hultman? 15 A. I have not. 16 Q. I'm going to ask you about your 17 understanding of the MERS system, but use this 18 document as a guide to include Paragraph 2 of Mr. 19 Hultman. 20 MR. BERNHEIM: I'm objecting to you 21 proceeding in this, one, because Mr. Hallinan is 22 not here as a corporate designee of MERS, and 23 secondly, this is beyond the scope of what the 24 purpose of the deposition is supposed to be about, 25 and I guess a third reason is, if you're going to

55 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 utilize the Affidavit of William Hultman as a 2 predicate for your questions, that simply would be 3 inappropriate. 4 MR. MALONE: Okay. I'll withdraw 5 the Affidavit. I'll just ask my questions. 6 BY MR.. MALONE: 7 Q. As an officer of MERS, can you tell 8 us is the MERS system a national electronic 9 registry established to track beneficial ownership 10 interests and servicing rights in mortgage loans? 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. 12 THE WITNESS: That's my 13 understanding of what the system is. 14 BY MR. MALONE: 15 Q. Okay. And I asked you previously, I 16 believe, but I'm not sure as to the precise 17 question, so let me ask you the precise question. 18 What does it mean to track beneficial ownership 19 interest? 20 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. 21 MR. MALONE: If you know. 22 MR. BERNHEIM: You already asked 23 that question in another and he indicated he did 24 not know. 25 MR. MALONE: I think I asked what

56 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 are beneficial ownership interests. I think it's 2 a separate question. 3 MR. BERNHEIM: Well, respectfully I 4 don't see the difference. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 6 BY MR. MALONE: 7 Q. Okay. What does it mean that MERS 8 is a nominee? 9 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the 10 question to the extent it calls for a legal 11 conclusion. You can explain what you understand 12 the term nominee to be. 13 THE WITNESS: I understand that MERS 14 is the designee for purposes of recording a 15 mortgage. 16 BY MR. MALONE: 17 Q. Okay. And just partly response to 18 your counsel's objection, that's a phrase that 19 appears in -- nominee appears in every single 20 assignment that you signed, you're aware of that? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. Okay. So as a designee, is that 23 equivalent to what we would call in law an agent? 24 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection to the form 25 of the question, and to the extent it calls for a

57 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 legal conclusion, a nominee is a nominee. You may 2 laugh, but there's a distinction and you're all 3 well aware of it, and we're not going to sit here 4 today and have this witness act as an expert. 5 MR. MALONE: I'm not asking him as 6 an expert. I'm asking if he can share his 7 knowledge as someone who signs documents many 8 times. 9 MR. BERNHEIM: And you're asking for 10 his legal expertise and that's inappropriate. 11 MR. MALONE: Understood. 12 MR. BERNHEIM: Sorry. 13 BY MR. MALONE: 14 Q. Thank you. The assignment that Mr. 15 Hallinan signs under the caption Assistant 16 Secretary and Vice President of Mortgage 17 Electronic Registration Systems, Inc. is nominee 18 for American success and signs. That word nominee 19 appears. I'm asking your understanding as someone 20 who signs the document as an Assistant Secretary 21 and Vice President of the nominee what nominee 22 means? 23 A. In this instance, it's a designee 24 for the mortgage holder for simple -- actually to 25 simply record the mortgage document and to track

58 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 the mortgage document. 2 Q. Does nominee to your knowledge mean 3 anything else than what you just described as used 4 in this assignment? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Now, you've indicated you're not 7 aware of the securitization process of mortgage 8 loans; is that correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Are you aware that mortgages in the 11 last ten years have all often been securitized and 12 sold to investors? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And in this case are you aware there 15 is a pooling and servicing agreement in the name 16 of the plaintiff that is considered the document 17 creating the trust that claims to hold the note 18 and mortgage in this case? 19 A. Am I aware that there is a document, 20 or I'm sorry. 21 MR. MALONE: Read the question back, 22 please. 23 (The court reporter read back the 24 previous question as follows: 25 "QUESTION: And in this case are you

59 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 aware there is a pooling and servicing agreement 2 in the name of the plaintiff that is considered 3 the document creating the trust that claims to 4 hold the note and mortgage in this case?") 5 THE WITNESS: No.. I'm not aware. 6 MR. MALONE: Okay. I'm going to ask 7 this be marked as an exhibit and I'll represent to 8 you that it's a document provided by your firm in 9 discovery and the discovery that's been previously 10 marked as Exhibit I -- I withdraw that. I won't 11 have it marked. I'll refer to what's been marked 12 over and turned over as Exhibit I. 13 MR. BERNHEIM: Is this the pooling 14 and servicing agreement? 15 MR. MALONE: You can look at it. 16 MR. BERNHEIM: I'm just asking you 17 to identify what we're talking about. 18 MR. MALONE: Yeah. It's been 19 provided to us with Exhibit I in discovery. 20 MS. WELLINGTON: What's the next 21 page says? 22 MR. MALONE: It says top execution 23 copy. 24 BY MR. MALONE: 25 Q. After the Exhibit I page there's a

60 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 page in the upper right-hand corner that says 2 execution copy and down towards the bottom it says 3 pooling and servicing agreement dated as of 4 September 1, 2005 Certificates 2005-AB3 5 Asset-Backed Certificates, and although you're not 6 aware of this particular pooling and servicing 7 agreement, are you aware that in general pooling 8 and servicing agreements provide for the creation 9 of a trust corpus delicti? 10 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 11 the question and, furthermore, he's not here as an 12 expert and he's also testified that he has not 13 reviewed that document, nor does he normally 14 review pooling and servicing agreements. 15 BY MR. MALONE: 16 Q. Can you answer the question? 17 A. No. I'm not aware. 18 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 19 whether or not the Ukpe mortgage note is part of 20 the trust corpus delicti of this trust reflected 21 in Exhibit I pooling and servicing agreement 22 turned over in discovery? 23 A. No, I do not. 24 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 25 whether the mortgage -- the mortgage itself is

61 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 part of the trust? 2 A. No, I do not. 3 Q. I'm going to show you what has been 4 marked Marked Hallinan-17. It's a December 11, 5 2008 letter from Ms. Sullivan to Mr. Brian Blake 6 of your firm. Have you seen it before today? 7 A. I have not. 8 Q. I ask you to take a moment to read 9 it. 10 A. (Witness complies.) I've read it. 11 Q. Even though you've not seen this 12 letter before today, has anyone told you of the 13 existence of this letter? 14 A. No, they have not. 15 MR. MALONE: Actually, I'd like to 16 take a five-minute bathroom break. 17 (A recess was taken.) 18 (Hallinan-18 and Hallinan-19 were 19 marked for identification.) 20 BY MR. MALONE: 21 Q. Mr. Hallinan, of the approximately 22 24 to 26,000 foreclosure actions in 2008 brought 23 by the firms, what percentage of those were New 24 Jersey foreclosures, approximately? 25 MR. BERNHEIM: I'm going to object

62 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 to relevance to any of those. Go ahead. 2 THE WITNESS: I would say 40 to 3 possibly 50 percent. 4 BY MR. MALONE: 5 Q. When you signed the mortgage 6 assignment in this case that Mr. Strain 7 subsequently acknowledged, were you relying on 8 information as to ownership of the note and 9 mortgage from any source other than the servicer? 10 A. I was relying on no information 11 relative to the note. I was relying on the 12 foreclosure referral and the title report and the 13 client's request to bring the action in the name 14 of the Bank of New York as trustee. 15 Q. Other than what the servicer told 16 you about who the plaintiff should be in this 17 case, to your knowledge, was any effort made 18 independently to verify whether the plaintiff held 19 the Ukpes' note? 20 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Asked and 21 answered. 22 MR. MALONE: And I'll accept your 23 answer if you tell me what the answer was. 24 MR. BERNHEIM: My recollection is 25 that there was no other independent investigation.

63 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 THE WITNESS: (Witness nods head.) 2 BY MR. MALONE: 3 Q. You're shaking your head yes? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Okay. And the same question as to 6 whether the trust owned the mortgage, was any 7 independent investigation done to your knowledge? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. Now, I show you what's been marked 10 as Hallinan-18 and I represent to you it's a 11 document provided to us in discovery. Are you 12 familiar with this document Hallinan-18? 13 A. I am. 14 Q. And can you describe for us what it 15 is? 16 A. It's an invoice from Phelan, 17 Hallinan and Schmieg to Countrywide Home Loans 18 Servicing in the amount of $50 as reimbursement 19 for the county assignment recording cost which 20 would have been imposed by the county to record 21 the subject assignment. 22 Q. All right. And the amount indicated 23 is $50; is that correct? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And is that money the law firm had

64 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 already laid out in the course of recording the 2 assignment? 3 A.. That's correct. The law firm would 4 have, you know, fronted that money on behalf of 5 Countrywide and this would now be a reimbursement 6 from Countrywide back to the law firm. 7 Q. As of today, March 17, 2009, are you 8 aware of any other invoices with regard to the 9 Ukpe foreclosure matter that have been generated 10 by your firm? 11 A. Am I aware of any? 12 Q. Yes. 13 A. No. 14 Q. And in the ordinary course, would 15 any invoices normally be generated in a 16 foreclosure action that was ongoing other than the 17 invoice for monies that the firm had fronted? 18 A. Customarily there is a three cycle 19 billing period. It is my understanding when the 20 complaint is filed an invoice would be generated, 21 when a judgment is entered an invoice would be 22 generated, and then after the sheriff's sale 23 customarily I believe when the deed is recorded 24 into the foreclosing mortgagee or into a third 25 party who may have successfully purchased the

65 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 property at a sheriff's sale, the third invoice is 2 created, the third and final. 3 Q. And the first invoice in the three 4 cycles you've described, the invoice following the 5 complaint, has that been generated yet to your 6 knowledge? 7 A. I would assume that it has been. 8 Q. Okay. We have not seen such an 9 invoice and we'd ask that it be produced. 10 (REQUEST) 11 MR. BERNHEIM: Go ahead. 12 BY MR. MALONE: 13 Q. And the second and third parts of 14 the cycle judgment and sheriff's sale, we are not 15 there in this case yet? 16 A. (Witness nods head.) 17 Q. For a Countrywide foreclosure 18 matter, what would the invoice be for the first 19 cycle, the complaint cycle, what amount? 20 A. Well, it will vary depending on the 21 filing costs, process server costs, so I don't 22 know what amount that may come to.. 23 Q. Well, can you give us a ballpark, 24 please, what it would be? 25 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection.

66 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 THE WITNESS: It's a provoked rata 2 of the fee of the foreclosure fee, and up until 3 the date that the complaint is filed it is my 4 understanding that the accounting department will 5 invoice for any other charges which may have 6 been -- which may have happened on the particular 7 file. I believe that a pro rata portion of the 8 fee at the time the complaint is filed will 9 probably be in the range of four to $600. 10 BY MR. MALONE: 11 Q. And the pro rata fee for the 12 judgment cycle, what range would that be? 13 A. I assume the same. 14 Q. And the pro rata fee for the sheriff 15 sale cycle, what would that be? 16 A. For the post sheriff's sale deed 17 recorded I'm going to assume it's going to be 18 about 350 to $400 range. 19 Q. And then in addition, you've 20 indicated if there are out-of-pocket expenses, 21 they would be included? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. The MERS in -- I believe it's in the 24 Hultman Affidavit I showed you earlier represents 25 approximately 3,100 -- may I see it, please --

67 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 3,100 -- I'll read from Paragraph 2 of the 2 Affidavit. Quote, MERS serves as the common 3 nominee or disclosed agent for approximately 3,100 4 mortgage lenders in the United States, closed 5 quote. I just ask you to take a look at it and 6 see if I read that accurately? 7 A. I'm sorry, where in here? 8 Q. Paragraph 2, bottom of the page. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. And my question is, of the 3,100 11 MERS members that MERS represents as nominee, how 12 many of those MERS members does the law firm 13 represent in foreclosure matters? 14 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the form of 15 the question, and you can't use somebody's else's 16 Affidavit as a predicate for questions, and I also 17 object to the lack of relevance of this question 18 into anything that's taking place in these 19 proceedings. Do you know how many MERS members 20 the law firm services? 21 THE WITNESS: I don't. 22 BY MR. MALONE: 23 Q. Approximately any idea? 24 A. I don't. 25 Q. You've indicated the law firm has a

68 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 retention agreement with Countrywide; is that 2 correct? 3 A. That's my understanding. 4 Q. Approximately how many other loan 5 servicers does the law firm have retention 6 agreements with? 7 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. How is 8 that even possibly, possibly related to this 9 matter? 10 MR. MALONE: Because the plenary 11 hearing the judge has indicated goes far beyond 12 this hearing as state-wide implications. The 13 court has addressed it in conflicts of interest, 14 so I've answered the question, not that I didn't 15 even have to do that. 16 MR. BERNHEIM: If that's the basis, 17 then it's a fishing expedition and I'm going to 18 tell him he need not respond because there's 19 nothing before the Court beyond the pleadings in 20 this case and you're getting into the proprietary 21 information of the law firm. It's just 22 inappropriate and that's what the entire day has 23 been an exercise of. 24 BY MR. MALONE: 25 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you what's

69 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 been marked as Hallinan-19 which I'll represent is 2 also a document that's been provided to us in 3 discovery and also it includes part of Exhibit 4 Hallinan-4. If you look at the second page of the 5 exhibit about what you previously testified -- 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. -- and inviting your attention to 8 the third page of the document towards the top 9 there's an entry Case Comments To Client. Do you 10 see that? 11 A. I do. 12 Q. Is this a screen that the law firm 13 has, is this a document from a computer screen of 14 the law firm's? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And the first date that's entered is 17 March 10th, 2008. To your knowledge, does that 18 reflect the initial first communications regarding 19 the Ukpe matter? 20 A. I don't know. Is this the first -- 21 if this is the first page of the case history, 22 then yes. 3-10-08 would be the first time an 23 employee of the firm would know at any time that 24 something happened or needed to happen in regards 25 to this foreclosure file.

70 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. Within the exhibit, Exhibit 19, 2 Hallinan Exhibit 19, there's only one other page 3 that there's the caption Case Comments to Client, 4 and if you see that, the dates begin at a later 5 date starting on June 11, 2008 and going through 6 September 29, 2008. 7 A. That's the last page. Yes. I see 8 that. 9 Q. Perhaps we can get a representation 10 that these are the only two pages of case comments 11 that you know exist? 12 MR. BLAKE: I don't understand what 13 you're saying. 14 MR. MALONE: Okay. Exhibit 19, 15 maybe we could a share a copy with Mr. Blake. The 16 third page of the exhibit is a computer screen 17 with a caption Case Comments to Client, and in the 18 left-hand corner there's a series of dates 19 starting with March 10, 2008 and going through 20 March 26th, 2008. 21 MR. BLAKE: I see that. Yeah. 22 MR. MALONE: Okay. And in the last 23 page of Exhibit 19 also is captioned Case Comments 24 to Client and begins with a date of June 11, 2008 25 and goes through September 29, 2008. Okay. My

71 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 question is can we get a representation from the 2 firm that these are the only two pages of Case 3 Comments to Client, the only two computer screens, 4 or are there more to your knowledge? 5 THE WITNESS: To the best of my 6 knowledge -- 7 MR. MALONE: Well, I'll ask both. 8 I'm asking for a representation on discovery. 9 MS. WELLINGTON: Can you give me a 10 minute to finish my conversation with him? 11 MR. MALONE: Sure. 12 MR. BERNHEIM: While they confer, 13 Ms. Wellington and Mr. Blake have handled the 14 production of documents, we can continue. 15 MS. WELLINGTON: We have an answer. 16 These documents were provided in response to a 17 request for the law firm's notes or memorandums 18 that related to the assignment, so these are the 19 only pages of the Case Comments to Client that 20 contain information related to the assignment 21 which is what we believe was specifically 22 requested in the document production request, so 23 responsive to the request made by defendants, yes, 24 these are the only pages of that Case Comments 25 that contain any information relative to the

72 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 assignment of the mortgage. 2 MR. MALONE: Thank you. 3 BY MR. MALONE: 4 Q. Mr. Hallinan, on the third page of 5 the exhibit, the Case Comments to Client beginning 6 with the dates of March 10th, about halfway down 7 is an entry from March 12, 2008 with the initials 8 JAC ASSNT SENT TO BE EXED, and can you tell us 9 what that entry represents? 10 A. On March 12, 2008 the staff person 11 John Caporale, C-A-P-O-R-A-L-E, notes the system 12 indicating that the assignment has been sent to be 13 executed. 14 Q. Okay. And does that mean it was 15 sent to you for assigning? 16 A. It would have been sent to, in this 17 particular case, one of the attorneys who would 18 have the authorization to sign the assignment in 19 this matter. I believe I executed this 20 assignment. 21 Q. Correct. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. That's what the records reflect. 24 A. Unfortunately. 25 MR. BERNHEIM: The record should

73 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 note everybody is laughing. 2 BY MR. MALONE: 3 Q. The next page of the exhibit there's 4 a screen captioned Case Note - In House and on 5 March 12, 2008 there's an entry MDT ASSIGNMENTS 6 REQUESTED. Can you tell what us what that entry 7 represents? 8 A. It's a staff person with the 9 initials MDT, and I don't know who that person is, 10 must have made a request that an assignment be 11 prepared in this file. 12 Q. And going to the second page of the 13 Exhibit Hallinan-19, the screen captioned 14 Assignment Maintenance Screen, about three lines 15 down it indicates Action colon Serv: 241 and then 16 the name Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, LP. Do 17 you see that? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. And can you tell us what that entry 20 represents? 21 A. I need to answer -- I don't 22 understand the question. Could you repeat the 23 question? 24 Q. What does the entry Action colon 25 Serv: 241 Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, LP

74 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 (Plano, TX), closed quote, what these represent? 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. If you know in terms of the 4 Assignment Maintenance Screen kept by the law 5 firm? 6 A. Yes. Based on those entries, 7 Action: Serv:, I don't know. 8 Q. Okay. As we sit here today, am I 9 correct that the law firm represents the named 10 plaintiff in the Ukpe foreclosure matter, the law 11 firm represents the servicer who's directed that 12 the action be brought, and the law firm owns -- 13 let me say three of the partners of the law firm 14 own Full Spectrum Legal Services which has been 15 providing mortgage foreclosure services? 16 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection to the form 17 of the question. Do you want to break them down? 18 MR. MALONE: I ask the question be 19 answered. 20 THE WITNESS: It's an accurate 21 statement. 22 BY MR.. MALONE: 23 Q. Are there any other business 24 interests of yours other than what you've just 25 identified in connection with this lawsuit in the

75 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 foreclosure matter? 2 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. Asked and 3 answered. We went through this last time. 4 BY MR. MALONE: 5 Q. I don't recall that question and I 6 don't recall the answer. 7 A. I think that you've got it all here. 8 Q. And that was reflecting on business 9 interest of Mr. Hallinan. And now are there any 10 other business interests of the law firms 11 reflected in this litigation other than what we've 12 just identified? 13 A. Not that I'm aware of. 14 Q. And in this lawsuit does the law 15 firm have an attorney-client relationship with 16 MERS? 17 MR. BERNHEIM: Hold on a second. 18 MR. MALONE: Let me withdraw the 19 question and rephrase it. 20 BY MR. MALONE: 21 Q. Does the law firm have an 22 attorney-client relationship with MERS? 23 MR. BERNHEIM: You're talking 24 generally? 25 MR. MALONE: Yes.

76 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 THE WITNESS: I'll refer to the 2 previous Corporate Resolution where MERS is 3 provided me, as well as some of the other 4 attorneys in my office, I believe that they're all 5 of my partners with signing authority on their 6 behalf. That's the relationship that I'm aware 7 of. 8 BY MR. MALONE: 9 Q. And my question is, is there an 10 attorney-client relationship between the law firm 11 and MERS? 12 A. I cannot speak to that as I don't 13 know what all of those documents between MERS and 14 my firm may say in that regard. 15 Q. Are you aware of any privileged 16 attorney-client communications between your law 17 firm and MERS in connection with your activities 18 and your firm's activities as signing officers for 19 MERS? 20 A. Again, I'd have to refer to the 21 documents, whatever the documents indicate. Do I 22 specifically off the top of my head know of any? 23 I do not, but I am not one who prepared those 24 documents, negotiated those documents, so I don't 25 know what those documents say in that regard.

77 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. When you are assigning a mortgage 2 out of MERS in your limited capacity, are you 3 doing an action on behalf of MERS? 4 MR. BERNHEIM: Object to the extent 5 it calls for a legal conclusion. 6 THE WITNESS: I'm exercising the 7 limited authority that has been given to me to 8 execute those documents on behalf of MERS. 9 BY MR. MALONE: 10 Q. And in that assignment transaction, 11 are you acting as a representative of MERS? 12 A. That's my understanding. 13 (A recess was taken.) 14 BY MR. MALONE: 15 Q. Mr. Hallinan, earlier in the 16 deposition you used the phrase foreclosure 17 beneficiary.. Could you explain to us what a 18 foreclosure beneficiary is? 19 A. Sure. On the referral document, 20 which I'm not sure which document it is. 21 Q. Hallinan-4 from the March 3rd. 22 A. I believe it's Hallinan-4. It 23 indicates on the referral. 24 Q. The referral is the last two pages 25 in Hallinan-4.

78 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 A. Oh, I stand corrected. I thought it 2 indicated that the foreclosure beneficiary, but 3 foreclosure beneficiary and foreclose in the name 4 of foreclosed to the benefit of, and then it would 5 be the plaintiff's name Bank of New York as 6 trustee. 7 Q. Okay. So in your mind is 8 foreclosure beneficiary synonymous with the 9 plaintiff in a particular foreclosure action? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Now, in your prior deposition you 12 indicated that the quick search was done by Search 13 Tech. Do you recall that? 14 A. I did. 15 Q. Does Full Spectrum Legal Services 16 have any ownership interest in Search Tech? 17 A. It does not. 18 Q. Do you have any ownership interest 19 in Search Tech? 20 A. I do not. 21 Q. And does the law firm have any 22 ownership interest in Search Tech? 23 A. It does not. 24 Q. Okay. And today we learned that 25 LandSafe does a title search at the request of the

79 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 loan servicer. I show you again Hallinan-12; 2 isn't that correct? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. And in terms of the mortgage holder, 5 is the information on the second page of that 6 exhibit any different than the information you 7 learned from the quick search? 8 A. Yes. There's a difference that 9 jumps right out at me. 10 Q. Okay. Please tell us what it is. 11 A. Okay. On Hallinan-12, the LandSafe 12 Title report, it indicates accurately that the 13 mortgage holder is Mortgage Electronic 14 Registration Systems, Inc. acting solely as 15 nominee for America's Wholesale Lender. On 16 Hallinan-4, referring to the search report, it 17 indicates as the mortgagee only the name America's 18 Wholesale Lender. Also attached to the 19 Hallinan-12 would then be a seller's Residency 20 Certification Exemption. I'm not sure what that 21 is, but that is not attached to Hallinan-4. 22 Q. My question only went to the 23 information on the second page. If you feel the 24 need to expand on it, go ahead. 25 A. No, no.. Fair enough.

80 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 Q. And since the mortgage servicer 2 orders up the LandSafe search, what is the need to 3 order up a separate quick search report? 4 A. To verify the accuracy of the 5 information that is recorded at the -- in the 6 courthouse in the records. There are times when a 7 search report is ordered and there are times when 8 a title report is ordered and there are times when 9 both items are ordered in order to compare the two 10 to assure accuracy in the pleadings. Here in this 11 instance, if there was a reliance on the search 12 report and the complaint itself would have been 13 inaccurate, so there's a comparison done between 14 the search report as well as the title report to 15 make sure that the parties are properly named. 16 That is one of the things that is compared. 17 Q. And in the last deposition I asked 18 you some questions about Mr. Strain's deposition 19 and you invited me to ask you me specific 20 questions based on the testimony, and I have one 21 question based on Mr. Strain's deposition 22 testimony. I'm referring to his deposition of 23 December 18th, 2008, specifically Page 7, question 24 being on Line 15. How long have you worked for 25 Full Spectrum Services? Answer, about three and a

81 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 half years. And does that -- do you have any 2 reason to dispute Mr. Strain's recollection that 3 he worked for Full Spectrum Services for about 4 three and a half years as of the date of his 5 deposition? 6 MR. BERNHEIM: Well, go ahead. 7 THE WITNESS: It is my understanding 8 that Mr. Strain was first hired as an employee of 9 Phelan, Hallinan and Schmieg, LLP, the 10 Pennsylvania law firm. It is my recollection that 11 Mr. Strain started his employ in our Philadelphia 12 office. Then there came a time when there was a 13 need at Full Spectrum Services for assistance and 14 it was determined that Mr. Strain would be 15 transferred from the law firm to Full Spectrum 16 Services. I don't have the employment records in 17 front of me so I am not sure how long he worked 18 for Full Spectrum Services and I am not sure how 19 long he worked for the law firm. 20 BY MR. MALONE: 21 Q. Okay. And inviting your attention 22 to Page 10, just one other question in this area, 23 Lines 24 and 25 of Mr. Strain's deposition, 24 Question, how many years have you worked in New 25 Jersey? Answer, three and a half. Do you see

82 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 that? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. So is your recollection in conflict 4 with his recollection about how long he worked in 5 New Jersey? 6 MR. BERNHEIM: Objection. 7 Mischaracterizes and you can't use somebody's 8 else's testimony to cross-examine him at this 9 point. 10 THE WITNESS: No.. That's not it at 11 all. 12 BY MR. MALONE: 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. As I just indicated, we would have 15 to look at the employment records of Mr. Strain to 16 ascertain with certainty when he was employed by 17 the law firm in Philadelphia and at what point he 18 was transferred to the Full Spectrum Services in 19 New Jersey.. I don't know with certainty what the 20 period of time was. 21 Q. Okay. We're going to ask then that 22 those records be produced and ascertain the 23 accuracy of Mr. Strain's testimony and how long he 24 worked in New Jersey. 25 MR. BERNHEIM: Go ahead and ask.

83 ••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 MR. MALONE: We'll provide a written 2 request. 3 Okay. I have no further questions, 4 Mr. Hallinan. Thank you very much. 5 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 6 MR. BERNHEIM: With all due respect, 7 are you sure this time? 8 (Testimony concluded at 12:45 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

84 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 23 I, LAURIE R. COSTA-PEPE, A Certified Court 4 Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New 5 Jersey, certify that the foregoing is a true and 6 accurate transcript of the deposition of said 7 witness who was first duly sworn by me, on the date 8 and place hereinbefore set forth. 9 10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither 11 attorney, nor counsel for, nor related to or 12 employed by any of the parties to the action in 13 which this deposition was taken, and further that I 14 am not a relative or employee of any attorney or 15 counsel employed in this action, nor am I 16 financially interested in the outcome of this case. 17 18 ______________________________ LAURIE R. COSTA-PEPE, CCR, RPR 19 LICENSE NO. XI01045 20 Dated: March 22, 2009 21 22 My Notary Commission expires April 18, 2012. 23 24 25

•••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 85 A ABIGAIL 2:18 able 4:23 42:9 about 4:6 14:12,20 16:10,16,23 21:18 35:21 38:13 54:16 54:24 59:17 62:16 66:18 69:5 72:6 73:14 80:18 80:25 81:3 82:4 above 1:17 absolutely 20:6 abstracter 27:4 abstracting 27:19 28:3 abusing 20:9 accept 48:11 62:22 access 44:20,24 45:1 accordance 44:6 account 36:25 37:8 accounting 66:4 accuracy 15:11 80:4,10 82:23 accurate 15:19 18:23 30:22 53:17

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86 •••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 12:20 13:16 14:7 23:14 56:19,19 57:19 applicable 44:10 approximate 22:2 approximately 19:17 51:8 52:8,12,13,18 53:4,15 61:21 61:24 66:25 67:3,23 68:4 April 84:22 area 81:22 argue 31:24 articulates 46:9,12 ascertain 82:16,22 asked 16:16,25 32:14 42:20 43:25 47:2 48:7 49:19 51:15 55:15,22,25 62:20 75:2 80:17 asking 39:3 45:17 57:5,6,9,19 59:16 71:8 asserting 31:13 Asset-Backed 1:4 13:22 60:5 assign 53:13

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