18981

MR. TRENGOVE

Luthuli also referred specifically, ray lords, to 1

Exhibit N.A.81 which was the Suramer School Lectures at

the Summer School organised "by Dr. Conco and the witness

Yengwe, and which were later published for the political

education of the youth, and, mylords, it was also put to

him that certain lecture notes, Exhibit A,302, that those 5

lecture notes which were notes for lecturers - elementary

courses in economics and politics - which were found in

the A.N.C, office and, my lords, in Durban, that they were

being used - - he wasn't prepared to admit that, my

lords. He says they could have been used. 1 0

RUMPFF J; Have you got the page numbers?

MR. TRENGOVE; Yes, my lords, I ' l l give your

lordships the reference. If your lordships would refer

to page 11876 to 11878, 11919 - 11924, then 13255 and 13261.

Then, my lords, in connection with the lecture notes, 15

A.302 - notes for lecturers, elementary course in economics

and politics - page 11931. My lords, those lecture notes

were also found in the offices of the "New Age", offices

in Durban, 10A.82, my lords, page 3724.

My lords, on thequestion of study classes and 2 0

lectures there is also the evidence of Resha who says

that he took part in the politicaltraining of volunteers;

he says they weretaught Congress policy, page 16468,

he says he conducted lectures for volunteers in Sophiatown

on Tuesday evenings, and as material he used Africans'

claims, National Presidential reports, Executive Reports,

Dr. Naicker's publication "Self discipline for volun-

teers',' the document "Political Organisation" and the

document "How South Africa is governed". My lords, your

lordships will remember "Political Organisation" is the 30

189 6'."-2 18982

MR. TRENGOVE

document B.25 which deals with the various aspects of 1

the Programme of Action, and the efficacy of the methods,

and "How South Africa is Governed", your lordships will

remember that is the document dealt with by Mandela,

N.R.M.35.

This evidence of Resha is found at page 16470. 5

He also admits, my lords, that volunteers were expected

to read "Fighting Talk", "Deliberation", "Isizwe",

"lodestar", "Indonesia" - pages 16470, 17074.

As regards the Exhibits A.84 to A .86 , my lords,

we submit the effect of Resha's evidence is that he does 10

not deny that the lectures were sent out specifically

by the National Action Council of the Congress of the

People for study by Volunteers, but he says, according to

his knowledge, they were not used for that purpose,

page 1 6 9 5 7 to 1 6 9 6 4 , my lords. 15

But, my lords, we say that the effect of his

evidence is that he concedes that he wouldn't have any to

objection/volunteers being educated on the lines set

forth in the lectures, page 16965. And he said, my

lords, that Mgwendu Mkitsing represented the A.N.C. on 20

the Transvaal Action Council of the Congress of the

People when these lectures were distributed to the

various constituent bodies for study purposes. That

he says at page 16927, my lords. He also said that

as far as he himself was concerned he read the lectures, 25

found them highly irrelevant, highly involved and not

particularly relevant.

Now, my lords, we submit that apart from the

evidence of other witnesses which will still be dealt

with, we submit that i t ' s quite clear from the evidence 30

18983

MR. TRENGOVE

that political training "by means of study classes, lec-

tures, "bulletins and so on, played a vital part in pre-

paring the Freedom volunteers for the tasks that this

shock brigade had to play in the non-violent army of

liberation.

And we say, my lords, that this political

education which they received, having regard to the pur-

pose for which it was being used, is of some importance

- is of some guide as to what the real nature and purpose

of the Freedom volunteers corps was.

Now what was this literature, my lords? And

what is its significance? Firstly, my lords, the Annual

Reports and Presidential Addresses and so on - we have

already dealt with that. We have already dealt with

A.N.C. publications, that is the "Lodestar", the "Indonesio"

"Isizwe", "Congress Voice". My lords, publications such

as 'Liberation', "Fighting Talkr , "New Age" and "Advance"

will still be dealt with separately.

We have already so far dealt with certain spe-

cific lectures such as A.309, "No Easy Walk to Freedom"

by Nelson Mandela. Your lordships will ask yourselves

how does that form the basis for study and political

training and for what are people being trained, if that

is part of the syllabus. Similarly, my lords, political

organisations - B.25, N.R.M.37, which Mandela says was

issued in 1952 and 1953, and which he says was issued

for the purpose of political education to A.N.C. mem-

bers, to stimulate discussion - page 18549 to 18581.

And Mandela also confirmed, my lords, that this lecture

was actually used for political education, as I stated

the other day.

18984

MR. TRENGOVE

Another lecture that has "been referred to, my

lords, as also being used, was "What Every Congress Mem-

ber Should Know", Exhibit W.S .56 , which Mandela also

says was distributed in the A.N.C. offices - 15858.

In considering this organisation, this specific branch

of the Liberatory Movement, your lordships should take

into consideration that type of political instruction.

BEKKER J; What do we conclude?

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, may I deal with the

matter to complete that?

BEKKER J; Yes.

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, these three documents

that have not been dealt with yet, but they were also

being used for study classes - they are Exhibits A.84

to A .86 . Now, my lords, A.84 was the lecture "The

World We Live In" . My lords, the rather unusual part

of the evidence of the Defence is that this series of

lectures - every one of the Defence witnesses tried

their level best to play down the function that these

lectures played in the framing of A.N.C. methods and

training of volunteers.

BEKKER J; Mr. Trengove, before we go on, what

does the evidence show - who prepared it and when, and to

what use was it put.

MR. TRENGOVE; Now, my lords, as I say I am

the moment confining myself to the African National

Congress. They were prepared by either the National

Action Council of the Congress of the People, or by

the Transvaal body of that organisation, the Transvaal

Action Council of the Congress of the People.

BEKKER J; That isn't really telling us

18985

MR. TRENGOVE

who the author was.

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, nobody knew until the

witness Mandela went into the Witness Box, and he seemed

to indicate that he heard that Bernstein . . .

BE'KKER J: I t ' s hearsay as far as he is concerned.

MR. TRENGOVEs I think so, my lords. He said that

he enquired and he heard that Bernstein had prepared

these lectures, but, my lords, we comment on the fact that

it is strange that nobody seems to know - none of the

Defence witnesses know who the author of the lectures were,

and yet, my lords, the evidence shows beyond any doubt

that these lectures were designed for the purpose of

telling the volunteers how to teach the people to liberate

themselves. They were being used for that purpose, my

lords; they were being used in Natal by Dr. Mutala, in

Pietermaritzburg, as the basis of study classes. They

were advertised as such; they were published in Bulletins,

these lectures were being reproduced and published; they

were sent all over the country - these set of lectures

were one of the most widely distributed of the documents.

Tshunungwe in his evidence - he is the National Organiser

of the Congress of the People - he received 50 copies for

use in the Eastern Cape. He says he didn't use them -

well, we 'll still deal with that, my lords. They were

found in possession of people in Port Eli- abeth- translations

were found, "The World We Live In" - - translations into

Xosa were found there, my lords. And, my lords, when

the National Action Council of the Congress of the People

responsible for this document - - when that is being

dealt with we will show your lordships, and we will show

beyond any reasonable doubt, that these lectures were

18986

MR. TRENGOVE

regarded as vital, as a vital part of the political training,

and for the present purposes, my lords, I will endeavour to

show your lordships that as far as the African National Con-

gress is concerned, there is nothing of importance in these

lectures which the African National Congress itself, in

its own individual publications, hasn't in one way or

another used as the basis of its political training for

its members.

My lords, these lectures show amongst other things

that the people were being prepared for revolution.

And,my lords, Iwant to deal firstly with the

lecture A .84 , and before I deal with the specific lecture

I ' l l deal with the comments of some of the witnesses on

this lecture. This lecture was put to Luthuli, my lords,

and his comment - I could summarise the effect of his

evidence - - our submission is that it is to the following

effect: That he doesn't disagree with the lecture, "The

World We Live In " , Exhibit A .84 , and he says - our submission

is that the effect of his evidence is that i t ' s not incon-

sistent with A.N.C. policy, and that there is nothing in

the lecture against A.N.C. policy. Pages 11788 to 11793.

He says the lectures are on a difficult side for the ordi-

nary Congress member, and that it would be good for

leadership to study these lectures and discuss them.

He admits, my lords, that these lectures have a bias

towards Socialism, or Leftism, as he called it , and that

they fail to give what he calls the other point of view.

Page 11800 to 11803 , my lords. And he says, my lords,

that the Socialist tendency in the lectures doesn't

really represent A.N.C. policy, although he admits

that the A.N.C. as such - the situation in which he

18987

MR. TRENGOVE

finds himself, the A.N.C. leans towards Socialism; he

also admits that these lectures condemn Capitalism, Im-

perialism in very strong terms, and he agrees that the

African National Congress view of exerting pressure as

a basis of negotiation,in order to obtain a basis for

negotiation, that that isn't expressed in these lectures

at all .

Resha, my lords, as I have said, found the

lectures involved and not particularly relevant, when

he was asked about them at page 16930, but when he was

taken through the lecture paragraph by paragraph he

understood, my lords, that paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4, 6

8, 9, 10, 11 and 13; what Mr. Resha didn't understand

was paragraph 5 cn Capitalism, paragraph 7 on what is

your labour worth, and paragraph 12 "The Socialist World".

His evidence, my lords, is at pages 16930 to 34.

The effect we say of Mandela's evidence, my

lords, is that he found nothing in Exhibit A.84 incon-

sistent with Congress policy insofar as it gave historical

economic and political analyses of the world - he was in

agreement with it . Page 15873 to 15874.

Conco, my lords, seems to indicate in his

evidence that the lectures do not represent A.N.C.view

and policy in connection with the matters dealt with.

My lords, the lectures really speak for them-

selves. As far as the African National Congress is con-

cerned I only want to comment on one or two paragraphs.

RUMPPF J- What's Conco's page number?

MR. TEENGOVE; Could I give your lordships

that reference a little later; I haven't just got it

handy.

18988

MR. TRENGOVE

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, the first lecture, 1

"The World We Live In" says "The notes are designed to

be read and discussed and studied by volunteers and active

Congress workers, especially workers - individual workers

and active Trade Unionists." Now, my lords, these lec-

tures have been dealt with over and over again. My pre- 5

sent purpose, my lords, is just to refer to certain para-

graphs. The lectures, my lords, will have to be commented

on for some other purpose, I don't want to exhaust argu-

ment on them; I just want to deal with the matters

directly affecting the African National Congress as we see 1 0

it .

My lords, the first paragraph I invite your

lordship's attention to is paragraph 11, "The struggle

for liberation". That paragraph, my lords, was commented

on by Luthuli at 13322, and by Resha at page 16934. That 1 5

is the paragraph which says "She struggle for liberation

- Imperialism has divided up the world." And then he talks

of the Colonial countries of the world and the Imperialist

countries, and he talks, my lords, of how Imperialism

has caused world wars, and my lords, how between world 2 0

wars Imperialism wages a ceaseless war to subjugate and

conquer new Colonial lands, and it refers to Kenya and

Malaya; it refers to Korea, Indo-China, Palestine; it

refers to China . . . . and this portion of the lecture,

my lords, concludes "Imperialism lives by armed force and

terror and lives always in war."

Now, my lords, the comment that I want to make

here is that this is entirely consistent with the whole

approach of the African National Congress to Imperialism

and its effect, as has already been indicated, my lords,

18989

MR. TRENGOVE

in the argument dealing with the Liberatory struggle.

And the same idea, my lords, that Imperialism lives

by armed force and terror, and lives always in war, that

same concept your lordships will find in the African

Lodestar A.M.K.66 which is the comment on the struggle

in Kenya, and i t ' s applicability to South Africa where

they say that one thing that is important, is that it

is important to remember that in the age of Imperialism

murder and violence become the order of the day, and

it ' s also, my lords, entirely consistent with that

National Executive Report A.37 - the paragraph dealing

with Fascism, which says, that Fascism arises when the

conditions are ready for it , and that in Fascism one

gets this state of affairs where your duly constituted

authority maintains its power by force.

But, my lords, this idea that is being used

to tell the people - cut the Imperialists and remember

Imperialism lives by armed force, terror and war.

Luthuli, my lords, agrees with paragraph 11

although he says he wasn't sure that Imperialism lived

always in war. And Resha said, my lords, he didn't

quite follow the whole paragraph. But we submit, my

lords, that this paragraph describes the African Na-

tional Congress view on Imperialism andits threat to the

Liberatory struggle.

Paragraph 12, my lords; in this paragraph

which is headed "The Socialist World" - that was put

to Luthuli for comment at page 13324 to 26, and this

is the paragraph which Resha says he didn't have know-

ledge of the facts contained in this paragraph. This

is the paragraph, my lords, which reads as follows; -

18990

MR. TRENGOVE

After dealing with the s truggle for liberation, paragraph

12 deals with the Socialist world, "But the struggle of

the people for their freedom cannot be held back by force

and terror. In the age of Imperialism the people's

struggle for their freedom has grown strong, strong enough

for whole sections of thewnrld's peoples to break out of

the net of oppression and to achieve their national inde-

pendence; strong enough for the whole sections of the

world's peoples to burst out of the net of Fascism and

exploitation, to overthrow the old system of private

ownership of tools and machines and replace it with a new

system, a system we call Socialism, where there are no

masters, no exploited men, but where all the factories,

farms and mines, and machines, are owned by all the people

who work it for their own benefit."

Now, Luthuli's comments, my lords, were that he

didn't agree that the object of overthrowing the old system

was necessary to introduce wholesale nationalisation, and

he says, my lords, that Socialism as described in this

paragraph is very much Communism as he understands it.

My lords, our submission is that the effect of

this article is that it unequivocally suggests that a

system based on Capitalism and Imperialism should be

overthrown by force if necessary and should be replaced

by a Socialist State. And we say, my lords, if one has

regard to the use that was made of this lecture and the

time at which it was being made, which was early in 1955, /

it sars quite clear that it was being made with the object

of' preparing the people for the Freedom Charter in terms

- more or less in the terms in which at a later stage it

was adopted. This idea, my lords, that the means of

18991

MR. TEETOQVE

production, the factories, the farms, the mines, should 1

he owned by all, . .

BEKKER J; Mr. Trengove, that phrase 'bursting

out of the net of Imperialism', wasn't that used in

another document to which you referred?—

MR. TRENGOVE; No, my lords, I think it might 5

have been used by the Grown in describing the Liberatory

struggle, but I don't think, my lords, that it occurs in

any document with which I have dealt.

Then paragraph 13, my lords, having dealt with

and analysed the various tendencies in the world, para- 10

graph deals with the "World We Live In" . My lords, may

I give the comment of the witnesses on this lecture first

- on this paragraph. Luthuli said he didn't agree with

the suggestion division of the world into employers and

workers, and he didn't agree with the statement that in 15

China, the U.S.S .R. Poland and Hungary, exploitation of

man by man had been abolished. That's at page 13328,

my lords. And my lords, it was at this point, dealing

with this particular paragraph, that Luthuli made that

rather remarkable statement in which he said " I f I were 20

to express my views on these lectures outside Court I

think the Court itself would faint. " And subsequently....

MR. MAIS ELS; The Crown, not the Court.

MR. TRENGOVE; Yes, the Crown would faint.

And subsequently, when he was asked about that, he asked 25

to withdraw the expression and said all he meant by that

was he wouldn't labour the Court with a lengthy explana-

tion of his views. Now, my lords, Resha - - Luthuli's

comment is at page 13328 to 13335. Apart from these two

observations, my lords, Luthuli didn't disagree with the 30

18992

MR. TRENGOVE

rest of the paragraph. Resha himself didn't disagree

with the paragraph. Now this paragraph, my lords,

deals again with the division of tk< world into classes,

a small class of Capitalists who own the instruments

of production and a large class who work and are ex-

ploited.

Then it refers to the fact that we live in

a world divided into Imperialist countries, England,

Holland, France, Belgium, America, who oppress and ex-

ploit the Colonial countries, Africa, Asia and South

America. We live in a world divided into two sections,

where Capitalism rules and exploits the people, and

a sector where the means of production become the common

property of all people and exploitation of man by man is

abolished - China, U .S .S .R , Poland, Hungary, Roumania

and Czechoslovakia.

And then he says, my lord, "We live in a

world aflame with the fight for freedom of Imperialism

and Exploitation through which the people move steadily

forward to better lifer

And then, referring to the position in South

Africa, it is the Congress Movement which organises the

people in Africa for its great democratic struggle.

"Our Congress Movement is part of the great world brother-

hood for liberty". " If we go forward as others have done

to burst out of the net of Imperialist oppression, we

must understand "This world we live in" . We must under-

stand our own country and our own lives. We must under-

stand how the country's life changes and how best we can

help that change."

Now that, my lords, is entirely in agreement with

18993

MR. TRENGOVE

African National Congress policy set forth in the documents

we have already dealt with under the Liberatory Struggle.

Now, my lords, that is A .84 , and Luthuli concludes

his comments on those lectures by saying that the one point

the lectures do stress is the struggle for freedom will

be achieved by the overthrov/ of Capitalism and Imperialism

and in its place a Peoples Democracy, a Socialist State.

My lords, that is exactly what these lectures try and say.

Then, my lords, the next lecture is A .85 , which

is "The country we live in" . My lords, as far as the

general comment is concerned Resha says that he understood

this lecture, he understood practically the whole lecture,

except paragraph 15 which deals with Fascism - that he said

he didn't quite understand. He also said that there were

some parts of the lecture which he didn't agree with, and

some parts which didn't stress A.N.C. policy, which was in

conflict with it as he saw the position. At page 16949

to 16952. My lords, our submission is - - -

RUMPFF J; Mr. Trengove, when you mention these

page numbers will you just pause, just after you mention

them, because we want to write them down.

MR. TRENGOVE; Yes, your lordship, I 'm sorry.

Pages 16949 to 16952. My lords, Mandela in his comment

on this lecture, Exhibit A.85 I think could be summarised.

He says that he found nothing inconsistent in the lecture

with Congress policy, insofar as it gave historical, eco-

nomic and political analyses of South Africa, that he was

in agreement with it. That occurs, my lords, at pages

15873 to 15874.

Nov/, my lords, this lecture deals with the

history of South Africa as the Congress Movement sees it 30

18994

MR. TRENGOVE

it deals with the new invaders, and how the Imperialists

came into South Africa and how the Imperialists made

South Africa to suit themselves, and my lords, it deals

with property, land ; and then, my lords, in paragraph

9 there is a paragraph headed "A system of Oppression",

and it states, my lords, "This is the system Imperialism

has built to protect its high profits at the expense of

the people of South Africa; such a system, a system by

which a small group of men grow rich at the cost of the

misery and slavery and poverty of the man, is always in

danger of overthrow by the oppressed people. This is

true of South Africa also. Imperialism can only survive

by the use of force on the one hand and on the other by

dividing the oppressed people and turning their anger

and discontent away from their real oppressors and against

their fellow oppressed. This is how Imperialism survives

in South Africa." And then he deals with Imperialism in

South Africa.

Nov/, my lords, this thought, this system

which is always in danger of overthrow by the oppressed

people, it was that very thought which Resha and Mandela

used in explaining why they said that campaigns like the

Defiance Campaign, or any other campaign of that nature,

would affect the safety ayLd security of the State. They

accept this view that a system such as this, the Imperial-

list system, the ruling people are always in danger of

overthrow by the oppressed people. And that is what

they are teaching volunteers of the Congress Movement,

to act on that basis.

Then, my lords, dealing with the way in which

Imperialism maintains itself, the next paragraph to which

18995

MR. TRENGOVE

Iask your lordships to refer in this connection is para-

graph 11. "They rule "by force". Before dealing with

that, my lords, I may say in respect of the previous

paragraph, that Luthuli also agrees that in South Africa

we have a system which is always in danger of overthrow

by the oppressed people, and he says that means that our

struggle, the straggle of the oppressed people and the

struggle to bring about a change - - and he says that

against such a struggle Imperialists can only survive

by the use of force and that is the position in South

Africa. Page 1334-1 to 13343? my lords.

Then paragraph 11, my lords, "They rule by

force". "From these hired allies and from the most dena-

tionalised and de-classed section of the oppressed Im-

perialism has built up a vast network of force; the

police, commissioners; superintendents and armies and

workers, to suppress by force the National struggle of

the oppressed. Alongside its armed forceis ranged a

whole lot of supper terd iind gangers-on, politicians

who preach racialism anc" oppression as a new Holy religion

- hooligans who use violence as a source of terrorism

to terrorise the oppressed. Ministers of Religion who

. . . . the inferiority of the oppressed, and the fitness

of the Imperialists and their supporters to rule. Thus

Imperialism ha& built South Africa and thus it rules."

Now, n.y lords, that thought, that idea, that

Imperialism has built in South Africa a system of oppres

-sion, a vast network of oppression, that, my lords, is

the same thought that was expressed in the lecture N.R.M.

35, "How South Africa is Governed", at page 15856. These

lectures are used by the African National Congress where

18996

MR. TRENGOVE

they see and they describe the State as the machinery

of oppression.

Now, my lords, Luthuli said he didn't agree

with this, that the police are a force "built up by the

Imperialists to suppress the National struggle. He says

because every State must have administrative arms. He

says that at page 1334-6, my lords. My lords, that may

be Luthuli's view but it is not the view of the African

National Congress in the Transvaal who published this

lecture "How South Africa is governed" in which they say

that behind Parliament stands the body of armed men -

the armed force - to see that the laws are carried out.

He says none of the bodies is impartial, none of them

act against the ruling class because they are higher

in force.

My lords, i t ' s too late for Luthuli to say

that was not their view; that was what they taught the

people and we submit, my lords, that that is what they

taught the people because they knew that they were bring-

ing the masses in conflict with this rule of force of

Imperialism, and they knew, my lords, what the inevitable

results would have to be. One can ask oneself, my lords,

why educate the people on these lines; what is the pur-

pose; to what type of discussion can it lead, and we

say, my lords, it can only lead to incitement against

the State as constituted.

BEKKER J: Y/hat do you say the suggestions made

by the various witnesses is ; these lectures were only

going to serve as a basis for discussion.

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, your lordships will be

referred to that circular of the Transvaal - Congress

18997

MR. TRENGOVE

of the people. These things are for the people to

study so that they know how to liberate themselves,

my lords; how people should liberate themselves.

So that you know how to give the right answers to the

right questions.

My lords, this isn't study, this isn't educa-

tion. This is indoctrination, my lords. This is what

they want the people to accept. My lords, this con-

sistently biased attitude to everything that is against

- or that can affect the people in their liberatory

struggle as the African National Congress sees it ; any-

thing that can affect them adversely. That, my lords,

is never given to the people. Your lordships will have

to ask yourselves why this entirely biased view, why in

every lecture, in every report, in every document used

for political education - does one get only the one side

of the picture, and this consistent attack upon the

State as being the instrument of oppression, ruling by

force and violence.

Now, my lords, we say that that makes it

abundantly clear that it was not in the course of ordi-

nary discussion - an exchange of ideas - - this is

indoctrination, my lords. This was incitement, my

lords.

Then paragraph 12, my lords, of this lecture

deals with Parliament makes the State and Parliament

the body which makes laws - it has been carefully de-

signed to ensure that it never acts against the in-

terests of the Imperialists; that is expressed in

the lecture by Mandela - also in the lecture "What

every Congress member should know."

18998

MR. TRENGOVE

Then the paragraph "Rule by Decree" which says

that in this country they move in the direction of a

brutal dictatorship which is prepared to stifle the vote,

and then, my lords, paragraph 14, Luthuli agrees with

paragraph 13 at page 13348 to 49, and then paragraph 14,

my lords deals with the passing phase. I ' l l quote

just one portion from it, my lords, dealing with the

development of Imperialism. It states s "In conclusion

- but as the discontent and the revolt of the oppressed

arises it , namely Imperialism, is forced to strip off its

democratic pretences and to reveal itself in all its

nakedness as a mile of despotic power based on force

and racialism."

I invite your lordships again to refer to this

Report, A .37 , dealing with Fascism, in which they make

exactly the same point, exactly the same, my lords.

And this paragraph, my lords, Luthuli says

he agrees with the statement in this paragraph, page

13349 to 13350.

And then, my lords, paragraph 15 on Fascism

which is the paragraph which Resha said he didn't really

understand; that paragraph reads as follows: "We are

entering the last days in the history of Imperialism,

the stage where democratic pretence gives way to open

terrorist dictatorship, called Fascism. Fascism, the

onen terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary

racialistic and bloodthirsty section of the Imperialist

ruling class. This is the system that is actually grow-

ing up under the Nationalist Government. To challenge

it there is a need for a close unity of all the oppressed

people, together with all those democratic and liberty

10

15

20

25

30

18999

MR. TRENGOVE

loving sections of the European people whose future is

threatened by Fascism. Such an alliance can not hope

to defeat Fascism, only by seeking to change the govern-

ment of the day, for Fascism is not a particular body

of men; it is something that grows out of the economic,

and social conditions produced by Imperialism, and can

only be defeated by such sweeping radical changes in

those conditions as will destroy for ever the breading

ground of Fascism, let us study what they say you should

be if the alliance is to destroy Fascism before Fascism

destroys the people."

Now, again, my lords, I say it is exactly the

type of thing - the view expressed in A. 37 - the Executive

Report, my lords.

And, my lords, Resha who didn't understand this

paragraph, i f he doesn't understand that he doesn't under-

stand the African National Congress view and policy in

regard to the present State, and if he doesn't understand

that, my lords, i t ' s difficult to see how he could have

understood the statement in the Transvaal Executive Re-

port published in Exhibit J .D.M.29, which was put to him

and with which he agreed, that Capitalism has developed

monopolism; Capitalism has now reached the final stage

of monopoly capital gone mad, namely Fascism.

That was put to him at page 16935 and 38

and 16949 to 16951, my lords. And, my lords, we res-

pectfully submit that this approach to the State,

teaching people, even for the purpose of discussion

or study, teaching them along these lines - - my lords,

they don't pose the question here, they don't suggest

19990 19000

MR. TRENGOVE

that merely we will discuss the nature of the State, or

what has happened. They make a positive averment, whe-

ther it ' s for discussion or not, that this is the nature

of the State and it 's borne out by their own documents.

BEKKER J; Well, in a sense I suppose it is there

for discussion if you look at the questions at the end of

each lecture; what do those questions do?

MR. TREHGOVE; Yes, my lords, the question it

wasn't a question at the end of that lecture, but the

questions are the following: Take this 'Rule by Decree',

ny lords. They say what rule by decree is, then the

questions are: Are there any groups amongst the Europeans

whose interests lie not keeping oppression but in ending

it. If so, how can the Liberation win them to support

its aims? It talks about a group amongst the Europeans

who could be won for the Liberatory struggle.

MR. M I S ELS; Groups.

MR. TRENGOVE: What is it that breeds Fascism?

And what changes in the laws and customs of Africa will

be needed to overcome the growth of the Fascist organisa-

tion and ideas? My lords, the question is not "Are you

satisfied that we have Fascism in South Africa, or is

South Africa a Fascist State. It says "What breeds

Fascism in Africa and how can we change it?" The

third question on the Rule by Decree was: "How is it

possible for European workers to save their democratic

rights and liberties and to protect their standard of

living from the attack of the Fascists?" The question

is put on the assumption, on the basis, my lords, that

those who have been indoctrinated are going to accept

the existence of a Fascist State. My lords, in the last

lgooi

MR. TRENGOVE

paragraph which is the conclusion of this lecture, a

paragraph which I 've just read out to your lordships,

about "We are entering into the last stage of Imperialism"

"the stage where democratic pretence gives way to open

Fascism " It makes those averments and calls

upon the readers of this document, the people in the not:

study classes, to decide/"Now are you satisfied, have we

got a Fascist State or not in South Africa". It sayss

"Now we must consider how we are going to destroy this

Fascist State before it destroys the people".

My lords, if one may say so, the questions in

these lectures are what one may say are leading ques-

tions; they put the answer in the mouth of the student.

The third lecture, my lords, is "Change is

Needed", A .86 . and this was a lecture which Resha said

he understood as a whole although there was one state-

ment in the last paragraph which he didn't agree with,

that the State should be in the hands of the workers;

he says it should be in the hands of all the people.

My lords, the lecture "Change is Needed" has a para-

graph "First things First", and this is important, my

lords because the African National Congress are trying

to rely on the non-violent nature of their struggle

in showing that they were prepared to co-operate with

other groups, other peoples of whom it c~>uld not be

said those groups were violent in any way. Now it

deals v/ith "First things First". This lecture states

inter alia, "Every change makes it easier and closer the

the day when the whole Imperialist system will be over-

turned is something to be worked for and valued. Such

changes which do not of themselves end Imperialist op-

19002

MR. TRENGOVE

pression are the changes which other outside Congress

Movements, even opponents to Congress, also sunt for

their own reasons." So they say, my lords, "We want

to overturn the Imperialist system." That object can

be promoted by working for other changes in which'other

people are also working for, even though the other people

do not work for it with the object of overturning the

system. So that it says, my lords, "It would be childish

and foolish to say that because these others are not pre-

pared to go all the way with us in seeking to end Imperial

ism therefore there can be no short lived alliances with

them for the immediate things we all want. For immediate

changes we can find allies outside the Congress Movement

who work together with us along our road for short times.

Such as has been the case in the campaign against the

removal of the Western Areas in the fight for the recog-

nition of Workers' trade unions. It is from campaigns

like this, in which we work with allies, whom we know

will not always be with us, that we build up our strength

and our support for the great sweeping changes that must

be made before Imperialism is ended." So that, my lords,

it 's a very clever policy; they are working, my lords,

for the overthrow of the system; they use, and they

even form alliances with groups who are working for partic

lar changes, and the Congress Movement forms that alliance

with these groups for the time being, because it sees in

that alliance a method of ensuring its ultimate object,

the overthrow of the system.

So that, my lords, one gets these questions

arising out of this, What accounts for the difference in

attitudes of the United Party, Nationalist Party, Labour

19003

MR. TRENGOVE

Party, liberal Party - to solve the question of the non- 1

European vote. Can the Congress Movement get any benefit

from the election of some of its members to such bodies

as Parliament, Advisory Boards, etc. , etc. You can co-

operate for the time being if it suits you. luthuli

agrees, my lords, with this paragraph, page 13353 to

13354.

Then, my lords, sweeping changes - paragraph

3. And under that paragraph it deals with the changes

that the Congress Movement must seek and they say, my

lords, "We must have a look at Parliament", and it re- 1 0

presents only a minority of the people. We've called

it an exclusive club for the Imperialists, the farmers

and their hangers-on, and therefore they say "We want a

completely changed type of Parliament from the one we

know that one must disappear and a new kind of Par- ^

liament must replace it . That, my lords, is exactly

the same view as was expressed in the lecture "How

South Africa is governed", N.R.M, 35, and i t ' s the

same view, my lords, as is c x j s r c b y the Transvaal

Executive, "What every Congress member should know" - 2 0

the portions that were read into the record are at

page 930 to 931, my lords.

Luthuli agrees that the changes thatthey

want are radical: he agrees v/ith the statement that

it must be a Parliament freed from the South Africa 2-

Act, the so called Constitution which enshrines the

principle of white supremacy.

And then at paragraph 4, my lords, they

pose the ^question, " Is it possible?" The lecture

poses the question in paragraph 4 " Is it possible".

19004

MR. TRENGOVE

Con such a radical change "be made little by little, by 1

one reform after another, by a long period of small con-

cessions.'1 Then it says; "let us look at South Africa

as it is; is it Parliament alone that rules?" and then

they deal with Parliament that upholds its authority by

armed force, the armed force it controls, and it says 5

"That we call the State. The police who are paid to

uphold the ruling class, the army who back the police,

and special bodies of men - armed men - they all constitute

the State.

Now, ny lords, they make observations in this 1 0

lecture that this whole system, the State, the Police,

the Prison warders - everybody who presides over its

class laws - they are the oppressors, and i t ' s the same

idea, my lords, as is in other documents. But then it

says, my lords, "These special bodies of armed men - - !5

I 'm sorry, my lords. "It consists of a permanent army

to back up the police whenever necessary against the

people at home, or the enemies abroad who threaten the

present ruling class" Nov/ that, my lords, is exactly

the view expressed in another v/ay in the case of Rex.

vs. Christiaan, 1924, Appellate Division. It says

that the State is there to exert its authority against

anybody who attacks it , either at home or abroad, and

they say that this system of the army and the police

are being used against the people at home* or enemies 25

abroad who threaten the ruling class' .

My lords, who was threatening? Was the

African National Congress threatening the rule of the

ruling class? And if it was, my lords, they knew that

I 3q

19005

MR. TRENGOVE

the army backed 'by the police would be used by the State

to maintain its position. If they were not threatening

the rule of the ruling class, if they were merely want-

ing to negotiate, my lords, how is it relevant that one

has this system? And how is it relevant, my lords,

that the people at home should be placed on the same

level as enemies abroad who threaten the rule of the

ruling class?

And so, my lords, it is clear that they rea-

lised that what they were doing was constituting inter-

nally the same threat to the existence of the State as

the enemies abroad would constitute to the State.

And then ultimately, my lords, they say that

one cannot get this type of rule by a series of minor

concessions. And they sayone can only get it if you

have a new kind of State, a State of peoples equality

and liberty which they call a Peoples Democracy.

Luthuli, questioned at page 13356, agrees with

the general sentiments in this paragraph, particularly

with the statement that Parliament maintains itself by

armed force, by the arned force it controls, and he

also agrees that the army, the police and so on consti-

tute the State.

Then, my lords, paragraph 5, !;How is it pos-

sible". How one would have thought, my lords, if this

had beeen a basis for discussion, one would have thought

under "How is it possible " that they would have suggested

negotiation as a basis, but, my lords, what they say is

very far from any indication of negotiation. What they

work for, what they work for is to overturn the very

basis of Imperialist suppression.

19006

MR. TRENGOVE

And, my lords, we suggest that the evidence -

the argument to your lordships will still be presented

by this Court, and it will show very clearly that these

lectures were used to prepare the people, the Congress

of the People, to prepare them for the type of demands

they wanted and it also served as a basis to educate

the people as to what they should expect if they strive

for the implementation of the aims of the Freedom Charter

which was adopted in June of that year.

And we say, my lords, it is these documents

- these lectures - were used for the education of the

volunteers and one thing they were not being prepared for

was for negotiation.

My lords, talcing the other evidence to which

we will still refer, we say they were being prepared for

revolution.

Now, my lords, Resha himself relied - and

other witnesses too - on the lecture "Self Dicipline for

Volunteers", by Dr. Naicker, and his evidence in regard

to this lecture and to the extent to which we used it

is to be found at page 17123 of the record. My lords, we

say that this lecture "Self Dicipline for Volunteers"

is not inconsistent with, but is entirely consistent

with the training and purpose for volunteers as the

Crown puts it . This, my lords, this need for iron

dicipline and the need for developing discipline - -

the place where the strictest discipline is required

my lords, is in the Army, and the fact that one wants

discipline and disciplined men - that, my lords, did

not mean that your organisation is non-violent, or

that your volunteers are going to be used merely for the

19007

MR. TRENGOVE

purposes of organisation, or for the purposes of collect-

ing demands from the people for the Freedom Charter

or for educating the people.

Dr. Naicker makes it very clear, my lords, in

his lecture why this discipline is necessary. He says

in this lecture - - the lecture deals with the attain-

ment of the objects to which they aspire through the

Congress of the People, and it also deals with the

political struggle of the people during the period 1952

to 1956, and he says in the lecture, my lords, "When we

review our political actions in 1946, 1950 and 1952

we find we have come a long way together up a steep and

difficult mountain, at the summit of which lies complete

victory for the forces of Freedom, peace and democracy."

MR. MAISELS; What page is that?

MR. TRENGOVE; This is Dr. Nacker's lecture,

the whole lecture has been put in. He says, "We are al-

most in sight of the top, but as with most climbs that

are worth doing the final cliff is the most steepest

and exacting of all.'1 And he says, my lords, "We also

find that during previous chapters of our struggle we

were able to rouse the people by mass propaganda and at

the cessation of activities we lost support and general

interest in the struggle and it waned."

So that, my lords, one of the things that

you require is discipline and that you require it for

is to maintain the interest of the Freedom Volunteers

that you have recruited, and why do you want to maintain

their interest? Because, my lords, the non-violent army

of liberation would at a certain time be used on a higher

19008-

MR. TRENGOVE

level. I t ' s not, my lords, as if they were being recruited

merely because of a falling away - - in between campaigns

interest must be maintained, and that can be done, my

lords, by discipline.

My lords, Dr.Naicker's lecture says "This was

due to the fact that the leadership failed to understand

(a) the political immaturity of the numbers who partici-

pated in the struggle out of frustration and hope rather

than from a true and real practical understanding of

the necessity for such a struggle, and (b) that every

participant in the struggle required practical demonstra-

tions and education to understand firmly the freedom

programme andthe type of struggle necessary to accomplish

that programme. Hitherto we have depended solely on

the discussions and lectures in endeavouring to keep

the freedom lovers politically informed."

So we submit, my lords, that what Dr. $Taicker

wanted was that he wanted some form of discipline which

would enable them to keep the interest of the volunteers

during periods of inactivity, and that was the purpose

why self discipline had to be cultivated and encouraged,

and that, my lords, is why Dr. Naicker says, dealing

with the full value of discipline, that is why he says

"Civil protests, disobedience and resistance, mass or

individual, is an aid to constructive effort and is a

full substitute to armed revolt; just as military

training is necessary for armed revolt. Training and

constructive effort is necessary only when the occasion

demands it , even so is the use of civil resistance.

There is no freedom or democracy from the oppressor

without sacrifice and suffering, and just as an army

19009

MR. TRENGOVE

will acquire no success unless it is disciplined, so 1

will a civil resistance movement not attain the fruits

of its struggle without discipline. The most successful

general throughout the history of war stressed the import-

ance of discip"|ine which was responsible for 75$ of the

Army's victory. Discipline in a non-violent struggle 5

cannot be over-emphasised. The form of struggle we are

wedded to requires moral courage, determination and

sacrifice, apart from political understanding, unity in

co-operation. In violence, truth is the greatest sufferer,

in non-violence truth is triumphant. In non-violence 10

discipline is a vital necessity."

Then he deals, my lords, with the practical

way of cultivating this discipline. Mymlords, that is

not inconsistent v/ith the attitude of the Crown that

volunteers must be disciplined; their interests must 15

be maintained, and at a certain time, my lords, the

volunteers would have to be prepared to accept orders

and do things that are illegal or legal; they'd have

to accept without question the commands of their superiors.

That spirit only can be developed by exercising them to 20

discipline.

BEKKER J: What page is this, that you have

just quoted from?

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, I have quoted from

the lecture itself; I ' l l give your lordships the pages 25

a little later.

(COURT ADJOURNED FOR 15 MINUTES)

j

_ &

19610

MR. TRENGOVE

ON THE COURT RESUMING;

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, I was dealing with

this document, "Self Discipline for Volunteers" by Dr.

Naicker. This document is in the record under a variety

of exhibit numbers. The exhibit that was put to Resha

for his comments was Exhibit T .E .T .54 , which was put to

him at page 17123 of the record. I t ' s also in the record

under a number of other echibit numbers. My lords, it

hasn't always been read in in full , but the passages that

I have referred to will be found under C.55 in vol.11,

where my learned friend Mr. Kentridge referred to exhibit

C.55 and C.288, my lords. Then he asked leave to read

into the record, I think it was from T.55 , and that, my

lords, is a document which is headed "Self Dicipline

for Volunteers of the Congress of the People", and it

contains, my lords, the speech actually made by Dr.

Naicker at the Congress - Conference of the Congress

of the People on the 5th September, 1954.

Now, my lords, that speech was reproduced as a is

study document and in the speech this document/referred

to at page 2045 of the record; the portions to which

I have referred are contained in 2045, line 10, where

he starts, "When we review our political act ions . . . . r

and it goes on, my lords, and the paragraphs to which

I have referred - - I see I made a mistake in referring

to political immaturity, it should have been political

maturity, my lords, as such; that paragraphs that I (

referred to are contained at 2045 and 2046, to the

top of page 2047.

BEKKER J: Mr. Trengove, you say your submission

on this branch of the enquiry is that the Freedom volunteer

19011

MR. TRENGOVE

had to b^ disciplined and non-violent for a purpose,

that purpose heing when the masses were ready, until

the time when the masses were ready, they had to control

themselves?

MR. TRENGOVE;; Yes, my lord.,

BEKKER J ; And is it part of the Crown case

to establish, or must the Crown establish when that day

would dawn?. When the masses were ready?

MR. TRENGOVE; No, my lord. We don't know,

my lords. That would be for the African National Congress-

or the Congress Movement to decide .///But we do say, my

lords, that these campaigns, one of the things that they

tended to do was that they tended to raise the political

consciousness of the people, the masses. They tended,

my lords, to enable the Congress movement to test the

political climate; they enabled the Congress Movement

to gauge the preparedness of the masses, to take such

action as the African National Congress might think fit

at a given stage.

BEKIE R J: Yes, well, in regard to the Western

Areas I think you said this morning, correct me if I'm

wrong, that it was not the intention to hove actual viol-

ence?—We don't say, my lords, that it was the intention

in the Western Areas Campaign, that that campaign was

planned as such that the overthrow of the State by violence

was planned for the day of the first removal. We say, ray

lords, that they planned a campaign in the Western Areas

which was unconstitutional, which was illegal and which

they knew could result in a violent conflict between the

State and themselves. The facts, my lords, that it could

19012

MR. TRENGOVE

result in a blood bath, as they said, didn't deter them

from it , because that kind of violent conflict between

the State - they accepted that that furthered their

struggle , that furthered their struggle for the overthrow

of the State ultimately by violence. Any type of

violence, any type of violent action in which they could

engage the State, promoted their struggle.

BBKKER J: What I'm just wondering is , would

not violence at the time of the Western Areas Campaign

have had a very detrimental effect on the struggle as a

whole? In the sense that if the Government had stepped

in and had embarked on a blood bath, that it might have

marked the end of the Congress struggle. You see, if

the time wasn't ripe in the eyes of the leaders, if

the volunteers had to control themselves, even at this

stage, to avoid violence, one poses this question, why

should the Congress be indifferent to violence at the

time of the Western Areas Campaign?

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, the Congress was in-

different to violence in the sense that they whipped up

the feelings of the people in the Western Areas to a

state of hysteria, and they were leaving it to the

people themselves to decide what would happen if they

met the forces of the Government, and, my lords, as

I explained yesterday, if they wanted to avoid violence

at all costs, at all costs, why embark on the Western

Areas Campaign in the way they did?

BECKER J ; Well, I ' l l answer that by asking

you a question. Why then instil in the volunteer this

absolute need for self control and discipline, if they

19013

MR. TRENGOVE

are indifferent to violence at that stage?

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, I don't know if they

wanted the volunteers to engage in violent action at

that stage. We don't know, ray lords; they were in the

Western Areas Campaign - they were placing the State on

the one hand and the masses in the Western Areas on the

other » and they were creating a condition which could

result - on their own admissions, my lords - which could

result in a violent conflict. Now why do that? We do

not say, my lords, that in that campaign this vanguard

of the Liberatory struggle had to at that stage commit

gets of violence, but, my lords, throughout this period

of the Indictment, they were creating situations which

they could use against the State, which they could use

to raise the political consciousness of people, and which

they could abuse for their own purposes.

BEKKER J; So b r ^ d l y speaking, the Y/estern

Areas Campaign on the Crown case is merely a further step

towards preparing for the ultimate onslaught.

MR. TRENGOVE; On our evidenoe,my lord, the

ultimate clash. Ana, my lords, we sey this - we use

the Western Areas to show that one cannot proclaim in

general teri^s a policy of non-violence, and disavow

any suggestion of wanting violent action, if the very

thing that you do,on your own showing, could have that

result. Your lordships are concerned amongst other

things with the state of mind of the people involved

in this Movement, and whether they had the state of mind

which seeks ultimately to negotiate, or whether they have

the state of mind which by a serious of violent conflicts

hopes to bring the State to its knees and to coerce it

19014

MR. TRENGOVE

into negotiation.

EBKKER J: Yes.

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, it 's not necessary

for the Crown to show, in saying that it 's a conspiracy

to overthrow the State by violence - it ' s not necessary

for the Crown to show that at a certain stage two large

masses of people were going to be engaged in a violent

revolution. We can also show, my lords, by a series

of conflicts which in themselves are v iolent they want

to bring the State to its knees. They watt to overthrow

the State by that . . .

EEKKER J; Yes, that I follow, but you don't

suggest that that is the case with the Western Areas?

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, our suggestion is . . .

BBKKER J; In the Western Areas it was intended

for a violent conflict with an idea of overthrowing the

State as opposed to acts ' of preparing for t he final on-

slaught .

MR. TRENGOVE; Our contention of the Western

Areas, my lords, is that there was a reckless disregard

as to whether violence would result or not.

EEKKEE J ; Yes; that I understand.

MR. TRENGOVE; If violence did result, my lords,

it would have assisted them as much as the fact that it

was avoided by the restraint of the State in removing the

people. If they had had a blood bath there they would

have used it , my lords, as they used the strike in 1946

where people were killed; as they used the May Day Strike

where people were killed; as they used Witzieshoek

fahere people were killed.

19015

MR. TRENGOVE

BEKKER J; Then why wouldn't it have suited

them if the volunteers had been violent?

MR. TRENGOVE; Why wouldn't it have suited them,

my lord?

BEKKER J; If they had trained the volunteers to

be violent.

MR. TRENGOVE: But they did, my lords.

BEKKER J; By exercising self discipline and

control . . .

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, an analogy: if an army

attacks there may be an order to every private in that

army not to shoot, but the fact that he is told not to

shoot doesn't mean, my lords, that at the time when the

order is given he must shoot; he is not obliged to obey.

And that is the very point, my lords, that I want to deal

with now, and that is the speech of Ndimba, and the speech

of Resha. My lords, one must have a disciplined army

if you are busy with dangerous conduct, and you cannot

have people doing things on their own out of their turn,

but, my lords, the very essence of discipline is this,

that when the order comes, whether it ' s legal or illegal,

whatever the order is , then it must be obeyed.

BEKKER J : I t ' s really speculation - one doesn't

know, of course, but what is your submission, why wasn't

the time ripe in 1955 or thereabouts for this final on-

slaught? At the time when the volunteers were told:

"Now look, you've got to control yourselves". What would

have happened if there had been . . .

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, for some reason or

another they wanted concurrently with that strike - with

that resistance there, they wanted the nationwide strike.

19016

MR. TRENGOVE

i

We don't know . . . .

BEKKER Ji Is this the Western Areas?

MR. TRENGOVE% Yes, my lord. Concurrently with

that they were going to have the Nationwide strike. One

doesn't know, ray lords, what happened in the organisation

- why it didn't come to pass.

BEKKER J; Well, apparently the police stepped

in ahead of time . . .

MR. TRENGOVE; No, my lords, the evidence is

not that . . .

BEK3E R J; On the s trike - - "because they were

not quite ready and because the police stepped in ahead

of time, they weren't in a position to carry it out.

MR. TRENGOVE; Yes. Now, ray lords, they didn't

call off the strike because the Western Areas Campaign

was anticipated by three days. For some reason or

another the Nationwide strike was not properly organised

for this occasion.

BEKKER J; Yes, well, I think Resha said that.

MR. TRENGOVEs Yes. Now, my lords, we can

only speculate. Your lordships are asking me to explain

why . . .

BEKKER J; Well, as a matter of probability on

what we do know.

MR. TRENGOVE They were not ready, my lords.

The Western Areas Campaign couldn't by itself have the

necessary effect without the backing of the Nationwide

strike, engaging the State not in the Y/estern Areas only

but throughout the country. I'm giving that answer, my

lords, because your lordship has put that question to me.

19017

MR.TRENG-OVE

That's one of the reasons we can advance, my lords.

My lords, just before dealing with the meet-

ings, there is one other study document to which I in-

vite your lordships' attention and that is the Youth

League Summer School lectures, Exhibit N.A.81 which is

also R.F.51 which was identified by Conco at page

11289 and 11925. I invite your lordships' attention

to the introduction by luthuli at pages 3714 to 3715

and to the article by Matthews on African Nationalism

at page 3716 to 3722, and I say, my lords, that article

too was a basis of instruction which is entirely incon-

sistent with any suggestion that they would bring

legitimate pressure to bear and negotiate with the

oppressor for their demands.

Now, my lords, I deal now on this question

of volunteers with one or two meetings. My lords,

volunteers were not only recruited and instructed at

public meetings; it is clear on the evidence that

both in public and in secret meetings were being held

in which volunteers were being given instruction.

My lords, we refer firstly to the meeting

of the 22nd November, 1956, of which your lordships

have heard the tape recordings read into the record at

page 8141 onwards. Now, my lords, this was the meeting

at which Resha told the volunteers if they were told

to be violent they had to be absolutely violent, if

they were told to kill they had to murder, murder,

murder. Now, how is this speechexplained? My lords,

one fact we will ask your lordships to have regard to

is the unsatisfactory explanations that have been of-

fered by the Defence in an endeavour to reconcile the

19018

ME. TEMOVE

making of the speech of this nature with the so called

policy of non-violence?

Now, my lords, Conco in his evidence was asked

about this speech. Conco at page 11232 to 11240 said

- this is the effect of his evidence - that Resha confirmed

to him that this meeting had been held, but he said, al-

though Resha said it was a meeting of volunteers Resha

couldn't really remember what he had said there; that

is the effect, my lords, of Conco's evidence. Now I'm

not concerned at the moment, my lords, with whether

Conco was truthful or not, but one doesn't make this

type of speech and forget about it , and if you do make

this type of speech and you forget about it , the only

explanation can be that you've become accustomed to

making this type of speech; it 's nothing unusual.

Luthuli, my lords, was asked about this speech

and the interesting feature . . .

BEKKER J ; What did Conco say, why did he ask

Resha whether he had made this speech?

MR. TRENGOVEs My lords, he heard the speech

at the Preparatory Examination.

BEKKER J; Yes.

MR. TEEN&OVEs He read it there, my lords,

and he asked Resha about it .

BEKKER Jg Well, why? Did he say he was shocked

or surprised? Or .did he merely ask out of curiosity?

MR. TRSNGOVS; He also said that because the

matter was sub judice no action could be taken against

Resha. Conco at page 112^2 of the record said - he is

asked ( "Q) Now, doctor, you heard the eviddnce in this

19019

MR. TRENGOVE

Court of the meeting of the 22nd November, 1956 at West

Street?-- (A) Yes, I recall."

( "Q) When did you first hear of that meeting?— (A) I

first heard of it at Court here.

( "Q) You must have read of it at the Preparatory Examination

?— (A) Yes, when I say Court I mean the Preparatory

Examination." " I t ' s such a long time now."

Then he's asked about that.

(UQ) Now when you heard that evidence of that meeting at

the Preparatory Examination did you make any enquiries

into that meeting, or were you not interested?— (A) En-

quiries into what? In what direction?".

("Q) As to whether the meeting was in fact held, and

whether the things that were said were in fact said?—

(A) Well, I cannot deny that that meeting was held;

it is purported to have been held."

Then he is asked about where he enquired:

( n Q) Where did you enquire?— (A) Well, from the people

alleged to have been at the meeting."

( "Q) Resha?— (A) Yes. ( "Q) Moretsele?— (A) I can't

remember." I can't remember the list of people who were

at the meeting."

( "Q) So you did enquire?— (A) I enquired from Resha" .

( "Q) And did he confirm that the meeting had been held?—

(A) Yes." ( "Q) And what did he confirm? And did he con-

firm that the things that were alleged to have been said

there were actually said?— (A) Well, about the things

that were said he couldn't remember very well; he might

have made the speech, he might not; he couldn't remember

what he said there."

( "Q) But at the time that you asked him, he had already

19020

MR. TRENGOVE

heard what was alleged to have been said by him? He

didn't deny it?— (A) No, he didn't deny it . "

( "Q) Did you ask him who the people were who attended

that meeting?— (A) Well, we have already been told in

Court . , ." and then a few names are given. 5 '

( "Q) Now, doctor, didn't you take Resha to task for what

he said there?— (A) Do you mean personally? Or as an

organisation?" .

4 ( "Q) The question is , did you take Resha to task?— (A)

I can reprimand him personally about the speech; I told 1<

him it was wrong."

(MQ) Did your organisation take it up?— (A) No; I mean

the position is this, there is still a trial on about

these speeches. Well, to my mind while there is still a

trial , the truth about speeches and as to where they were 1

made, well, I cannot conceive of a trial within a trial.

(UQ) What did you think about the speeches", and he said

he can't remember everything, so many speeches were read.

He is then asked about the position . . .

BEKKBB J; I don't want to know that; I want 2

to know if he said why - what motivated him in asking

Resha.

MR. TRENGOVE; My lords, he explains that

later on, my lords; he didn't exactly say what moti-

vated him. He said, my lords he is asked about the

speech and at page 11235» my lords, to 236, this passage

is puts ("Q) Now you heard him say that on the tape

recording, and you heard the applause", then some pas-

sages are put to him about Resha and Nokwe, and theb,

at page 11238, ("Q) Now, doctor, would you agree, judging

Collection: 1956 Treason Trial Collection number: AD1812

PUBLISHER: Publisher:- Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand Location:- Johannesburg ©2011

LEGAL NOTICES:

Copyright Notice: All materials on the Historical Papers website are protected by South African copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, or otherwise published in any format, without the prior written permission of the copyright owner.

Disclaimer and Terms of Use: Provided that you maintain all copyright and other notices contained therein, you may download material (one machine readable copy and one print copy per page) for your personal and/or educational non-commercial use only.

People using these records relating to the archives of Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, are reminded that such records sometimes contain material which is uncorroborated, inaccurate, distorted or untrue. While these digital records are true facsimiles of paper documents and the information contained herein is obtained from sources believed to be accurate and reliable, Historical Papers, University of the Witwatersrand has not independently verified their content. Consequently, the University is not responsible for any errors or omissions and excludes any and all liability for any errors in or omissions from the information on the website or any related information on third party websites accessible from this website.