18TH OCTOBER, time and passed into law. New Territories Regulation Amendment Ordinance THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of the Bill intituled, An Ordinance to amend further

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 127

18TH OCTOBER, 1923.

PRESENT:――――

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR, SIRREGINALD EDWARD STUBBS, K.C.M.G.

HON. MR. A. G. M. FLETCHER, C.M.G., C.B.E.(Colonial Secretary).

HON. MR. J. H. KEMP, K.C., C.B.E. (Attorney-General).

HON. MR. MCI. MESSER, O.B.E. (ColonialTreasurer).

HON. MR. E. R. HALLIFAX, C.B.E.(Secretary for Chinese Affairs).

HON. MR. E. A. IRVING (Director ofEducation).

HON. MR. H. T. CREASY (Director ofPublic Works).

HON. MR. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C.

HON. MR. P. H. HOLYOAK.

HON. MR. CHOW SHOU-SON.

HON. MR. A. R. LOWE.

HON. MR. R. H. KOTEWALL.

MR. S. B. B. MCELDERRY (Clerk ofCouncils).

ABSENT:――――

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GENERAL OFFICER INCOMMAND OF THE TROOPS, MAJOR-GENERAL SIRJOHN FOWLER, K.C.M.G., C.B., D.S.O.

HON. MR. A. O. LANG.

Minutes

The minutes of the last meeting wereconfirmed and signed by the President.

Tribute to the Late Mr. S.B.C. Ross

The Members of the Council rising in theirplaces,

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―Gentlemen, as youare aware, we have, since our last meeting,received news of the death of a very valuedpublic servant, Mr. Carne Ross. I haveendeavoured, in a Gazette notice publishedyesterday, to express the loss to the servicewhich results from the untimely death of thisofficer. I can only add that I feel a very strongsense of personal loss because I have knownMr. Ross for nearly a quarter of a century. Imet him first when we were both sitting for theCivil Service Examination and I have knownhim more or less ever since; in fact it was atmy suggestion, I remember, that in 1912 Mr.Ross was employed in the Colonial Office atHome in a department in which, as everywhereelse in which he served, he left a record ofgood fellowship and popularity which was tobe envied. Mr. Ross was a very efficientofficer. One of the last papers which I hadofficially in connection with him was a hightribute from the Post-master-General at Homeas to the ability he displayed in the somewhatdifficult task of winding up the affairs of thePostal Agencies in China. He was also inmany ways a peculiarly lovable character, aman very widely read, of very original mindand a sense of humour which was found attimes almost embarrassing in officialdocuments. I remember, when he came to say"Good-bye" to me on his way Home ―

knowing I think, as most of us did, that hischances of returning were extremely small―he said "Good-bye" to me with the samecheery light-heartedness as I had associatedwith him ever since I met him. I have lost aman for whom I had a great affection and Iconsider His Majesty's Service has lost anornament.

I propose that we enter on the minutes of theC o u n c i l t h e r e g r e t w i t h

HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.128

which the Council has learned of the death ofMr. Ross.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― Sir, on behalf ofmy Unofficial colleagues, I desire to say wecompletely associate ourselves with the wordswhich have fallen from your Excellency. It isappreciated by all of us that Mr. Ross was avery efficient and capable public officer andby his death the Colony has sustained a severeloss.

Papers

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, bycommand of H.E. The Governor laid on thetable an Order made by the Governor inCouncil under section 2 (2) of the MerchantShipping Amendment Ordinance, 1917, madeon October 11th; and an Order in Councilmade under section 9 of the Post OfficeOrdinance, 1900, revising rates of postages.

Finance

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY, bycommand of H.E. The Governor, laid on thetable Financial Minutes Nos. 86 to 88 andmoved that they be referred to the FinanceCommittee.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded,and the motion was agreed to.

Births and Deaths RegistrationAmendment Ordinance

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved thesecond reading of the Bill intituled, AnOrdinance to amend the Births and DeathsRegistration Ordinance, 1896.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded,and the motion was agreed to.

The Council resolved itself into Committeeto consider the Bill clause by clause and itpassed through without amendment.

On the Council resuming the Bill was read athird time and passed into law.

New Territories RegulationAmendment Ordinance

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved thesecond reading of the Bill intituled, AnOrdinance to amend further the NewTerritories Regulation Ordinance, 1910.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded,and the motion was agreed to.

The Bill passed through the Committeestage without amendment and on Councilresuming it was read a third time and passedinto law.

The Budget Debate

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY moved thereading of a Bill intituled, An Ordinance toapply a sum not exceeding Nineteen millioneight hundred and ninety-seven thousand threehundred and two dollars to the Public Serviceof the year 1924.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER seconded.

HON. MR. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C.―Sir, I havebeen asked by my Unofficial colleagues toaddress the Council on their behalf, leaving itto them to bring forward individually anyspecial points which they wish to make.

THE NEED FOR SPEEDING UP OF PUBLICWORKS

In the first place we can congratulate theGovernment and the Colony upon thesatisfactory manner in which Revenuecontinues to flow in, thus enabling us tocontemplate with equanimity a largeprogramme of Public Works Extraordinary,and we entirely concur in Your Excellency'sremarks upon the "wisdom of the policy ofexpending on works of development as largesums as can be adequately employed duringthe year."

In fact we should like, in these times whenwe have so many demands for the rapiddevelopment of fresh building areas, to see theGovernment keeping yet more abreast of thedemand for the development, marking out andgranting of sites and passing of plans for freshbuildings than they are at present, and, in thatconnection, we venture to doubt whether theproposed increases to the staff of the PublicWorks Department are sufficient to keep pacewith the growing demands of this rapidlyexpanding Colony.

From the recent Table supplied to us on the5th October, 1923, in answer to Question 5 ofthe Honourable Mr. A. R. Lowe, we notice that,whereas in the year 1917 the Government spenta little more than the amount of the Estimates


for that year on Public Works Extra-ordinary,we have been going to the bad steadily eversince, the percentage of actual to estimatedexpenditure on Public Works Extraordinarybeing 93.61 per cent. in 1918, 85.62 per cent.in 1919, 64.32 per cent. in 1920, 61.47 percent. in 1921, and 54.08 per cent. in 1922. Nodoubt we shall be told, in reply, by theGovernment that that is not a fair comment tomake, seeing that the Public WorksExtraordinary estimate for 1922 was over fourtimes the amount for 1917. With deference wecannot agree with any such contention. TheGovernment ought to be run on business lines.What would be thought of a commercial firmwhich had to say to its customers (the public):"Our work has so enormously increased thatreally we cannot cope with the orders anddemands made upon us?" Surely thosecustomers would justly reply: "You shouldhave looked forward, and, when you found thedemands on you increasing, you should haveprovided the necessary staff to cope with it."

Furthermore, this complaint of shortage ofstaff and consequent delays in the PublicWorks Department is by no means a new topic.Speaking on the 18th November, 1920, onbehalf of the Unofficial Members, on theBudget for 1921, I made the following remarks(see Hansard 1920 at page 64):―

"With regard to the fact that over Onemillion dollars short of the Estimates for1920 were spent upon Public WorksExtraordinary we are disposed to attribute apart of that shortage to inadequacy ofnumbers in the Public Works staff. Wewould also earnestly press upon YourExcellency's notice the absolute necessityfor the promptest dealing with applicationsand plans which are sent in to the PublicWorks in regard to new buildings oralterations to buildings, seeing that delay insuch matters not only retards developmentand progress but entails the tying up ofcapital."

In connection with this subject I haveascertained from an officer in the BuildingOrdinance Office, that the month of Augustconstituted a new high record in the passing ofplans and that, inasmuch as building planscome in as a rule several months after the saleof land for building on, it is likely that the

present pressure on the Building Office will bemuch increased during the next six months.

It must also be remembered that theGovernment has hanging over it at the presentmoment huge public works, such as theKowloon Waterworks Extension and Roaddevelopments in Kowloon, and the HarbourDevelopment Scheme, which will occupy theattention of a considerable staff for many yearsto come.

POLICE STAFF

Passing on to the question of Police Staff,we consider that the proposed increase of thatstaff, which is described by Your Excellencyas "a very big and expensive increase," is quiteinsufficient having regard to

(i.) The fact that the preservation of lawand order is one of our chief needs, andis, indeed, one of our chief assets vis-a-vis the neighbouring Provinces ofChina;

(ii.) The population of the Colony,especially on the Kowloon side, isincreasing enormously;

(iii.) The criminal population of the Colonyand its crimes of violence anddepredations on property have alsoenormously increased, as witness thefollowing extracts from the Captain-Superintendent of Police's Report for1922:―

"(a) Increase of serious offences, ascompared with 1921:―Murder ..................... increase 10Robbery ................... " 127Burglary and Larceny

from dwelling ...... " 152Piracy ....................... " 5Unlawful possession " 42Other felonies .......... " 17

In connection with the 35murders, no arrest was made in 27cases.

In connection with 121 gangrobberies, no arrest was made in106 cases.

In connection with 87 street andhighway robberies, no arrests weremade in 74 cases.


In connection with 11 cases ofrobbery on boats and junks, noarrest was made in 8 cases.

In connection with 23 cases ofrobbery with violence, no arrestwas made in 21 cases."

Then we read under the heading"Property stolen and PropertyRecovered." "The estimated valueof property stolen during 1922 was$882,674.48 as against $376,531.78in 1921, an increase of over$500,000. The average for the last 5years is $492,558.91, an increase onthe report in 1921 of $118,790.46.The value of property recoveredduring the year 1922 was$81,098.81, against $34,383.99 in1921, an increase over propertyrecovered in 1921 of $46,715.82."

From the above figures it will be seen thatthe public suffered in 1922 from robberies andthefts (deducting the value of the propertyrecovered from the value of the property stolen)a nett loss of $800,000 worth of property. In1921 the nett loss was about $340,000.

In the Appropriation Ordinance for 1921 thePolice Vote for 1922 was $1,500,000.

In the Appropriation Ordinance for 1922 thePolice Vote for 1923 was roughly $1,660,000.

In the pending Appropriation Bill, 1923, theproposed Police Vote for 1924 is roughly$1,750,000.

From the above figures it will be seen thatthe public lost nett in thefts and robberies ofproperty in 1922 a sum equivalent to nearly 50per cent. of the total Police Vote for that year.

In his Budget speech for last year theOfficer Administering the Government said(see Hansard, 1922, at page 107):―

"The problem of adequate policing has itsspecial difficulties in consequence of thewaves of crime which from time to timespread to the Colony during periods ofunrest in South China. It is necessary bothto cope with these periodic outbreaks and atthe same time to avoid over-burdening thetaxpayer with expenditure which may prove

to be unnecessary. The Government hasevery hope that the restoration of peace andtranquillity in China will before long renderthe task of the policeman in Hongkong aless arduous one than at present."

We regret to find that the above optimism ofthe Government has not been justified bysubsequent events, and we can see no groundsfor optimism in the near future.

In regard to the numbers required in thePolice, it must be borne in mind that, inaddition to their ordinary duties for theprevention and detection of crime amongst arapidly expanding population, the Police havenow―

1.― Powerful distractions, with heavyrewards, in Opium and Arms cases.

2.― Extra duties as to the control of alargely-increased motor traffic.

Mr. W. S. Bailey, in a recent letter to thePress, shows that Chinese go on single patrolduty in Kowloon at night, and also thatconstables of any kind were difficult to find atnight.

FIRE BRIGADE

We approve of the re-organization of theFire Brigade and also the Government policyin buying a new fire-float, costing $180,000.

DISPOSAL OF REFUSE AND ROAD-SWEEPING

Whilst commending the appointment of an"Inspector in charge of refuse disposal," wesuggest the employment of refuse carts withtight-fitting lids, and that the work ofremoving the refuse and the sweeping of dustfrom the roads and the clearing out of drainsby chains should, in the interests of PublicHealth, be confined to the early morninghours.

There should also, we think, be a modernRefuse Destructor plant for the destruction ofgarbage and rubbish.

EDUCATION

On the subject of Education we would onceagain urge the Government to push on with theSaiyingpun School, and, if possible, tocomplete it within the year 1924.


RAILWAY

In connection with this expensive concern,we should like to be supplied with figuresshowing the liabilities of the Chinese sectionfor damages to the British section, owing tothe long hold-up of the through trainconnection to Canton, and also to be informedwhat security we have got for the payment ofthose liabilities.

Also, we should like to know whether thenecessity for the Government ordering extrarolling-stock is not in part, and, if so, to whatextent, due to the destruction of some of ourrolling-stock by Chinese military operations,and, if so, whether we are not entitled to somereimbursement from the Chinese Authoritieson that account?

Also, we notice (from the Sessional paper 8of 1923, p.18) that more extra posts are beingcreated on the railway than those which areabolished, which seems strange at a time ofrestricted traffic like the present.

PUBLIC WORKS EXTRAORDINARY―KOWLOON

HOSPITAL

We would urge the Government to push onwith all possible speed with the completion ofthe Kowloon Hospital, a work which has hungfire for so long. The following short history ofthe negotiations in regard to it has beensupplied by a member of the Committee of theKowloon Residents' Association:

"On 20th May, 1920, the Governmentinvited the Kowloon Residents' Association tochoose a site. On 13th September, 1920, theGovernment considered the site proposed bythe Kowloon Residents' Association as themost suitable for the purpose. On 3rd March,1921, Mr. Pollock asked in the LegislativeCouncil when work would be commenced.The answer was that 'it is not possible atpresent to give a date. Sketch plans have beenprepared and are considered satisfactory. It ispossible that work on the site will becommenced within two months and whendetailed plans are finished, tenders will beinvited. On the 3rd August, 1921, PublicWorks Committee considered plans for a newhospital, On 27th October, 1921, the Governorin his Budget Speech said that 'in Kowloon alarge sum is provided for work on thehospital.' On 28th December, 1921,

Government wrote to the Kowloon Residents'Association saying the hospital wouldprobably take two years to construct. In April,1922, Mr. Fletcher met the Committee on thesite. He explained that the original site wouldhave to be cut down 40 feet to assistdevelopment of surrounding area.

The Estimates give the following particulars:―

Original Cost ......................... $360,000.00Revised Cost .......................... 554,000.00Approved Estimated

Expenditure, 1923 ......... 100,000.00Revised Expenditure in 1923 201,000.00Estimated Expenditure in

1924 ............................... 200,000.00

This means that if Government spends whatit estimates on the work, it cannot be finishedmuch before the end of 1925, i.e., nearly twoyears later than promised."

The Unofficial members would urge that, ifpossible, this long-deferred Hospital becompleted during the year 1924.

WANCHAI GAP TRAM

We regret to find that there is no mention inthe Estimates of the Wanchai Gap Tramway,without which the Mount Cameron District―which, we understand, will open up sites for88 houses― cannot properly be developed.That tram will also be of assistance to a certainnumber of people who have built or areproposing to build in the neighhourhood ofWanchai Gap, and between Wanchai andMagazine Gap.

In October, 1921, Your Excellency, inintroducing the Budget for 1922, said asfollows (see Hansard, 1921, p.137):―

"Many works that are desirable, thoughnot very urgent, have had to be dropped forthe present. I would mention in particularthe tramway to Wanchai Gap, a work whichmay have to be proceeded with before longas the construction of houses on the newroad in the vicinity of Wanchai Gap and onMount Cameron proceeds. It is recognisedthat, useful in many ways as the road to theHill District will be, cheap and rapid transitat regular intervals is necessary to a central


point. As, however, no definite plans havebeen prepared for this work, and the methodof working the tramway has not beendecided on, it is unnecessary to increase thevote for Public Works by a sum that willprobably not be spent."

Speaking on behalf of the UnofficialMembers, on the same subject, in November,1921, I said as follows (see Hansard 1921, atp.158) (after suggesting that it might bepossible to carry such a tram even higher upMount Cameron than the Wanchai Gap):―

"It may also be pointed out, if it besuggested that the time is hardly ripe forsuch a tramway, that the tramway wouldtake some time to construct and,furthermore, that when the present Peaktramway was opened in May, 1888, therewere then only about a dozen houses in thePeak District and half-a-dozen houses in theMagazine Gap District. Moreover, a Tram isobviously the only feasible means ofapproach, enabling those of moderate meansto reside in the Mount Cameron District andis also indispensable for the transport ofprovisions and other necessaries."

In connection with this Tramway theHonourable the Acting Colonial Secretary isreported to have said in an interview with arepresentative of the Hongkong Telegraph (seeHongkong Telegraph of 5th October, 1923)that the making of such a Tram "would, forone thing, mean the resumption of a largebuilt-over area," and we should be glad to havethis point cleared up.

Before leaving the subject of Public WorksExtraordinary we desire to add (1) That weconsider that more landing piers are requiredon the Hongkong side of the Harbour, and thatwe regard the building of permanent andbigger Piers on both sides of the Harbour asbeing essential for the progress of the Colony;(2) That the proposed inauguration of a bigFerry from Jubilee Street to Jordon Road hasour hearty approval; (3) That we wish to beinformed of the Government's intentions withregard to the site of the proposed School atQuarry Bay.

MILITARY LANDS

In regard to the Military Lands Question, we

trust that the Government will publish Sir JohnOakley's Report at as early a date as possibleafter it is received.

INVESTMENTS OF COLONY'S FUNDS

We should be glad if the Government wouldpublish periodically particulars of all theinvestments of the Government's funds whichare in the hands of the Crown Agents.

ADDITIONAL POINTS MADE BY THE CHINESE

MEMBERS OF COUNCIL

The following additional points have beenbrought forward by the Chinese Members ofCouncil and are approved of by all theUnofficial Members, namely:―

1.―The granting of a Rent allowance tonon-European Government Servants of over10 years' service who are not at presentprovided with quarters or a rent allowance.

2.―The further grant of assistance by theGovernment to Confucian schools.

3.―The financing by the Government of theseventeen million dollars Shing Munwaterworks scheme by means of a loan.

4.―The removal of the University to somesite on the South side of the Island because thepresent noise and distractions at night at WestPoint make the present site an undesirableposition for the University.

If the above removal is carried out, it mightbe desirable to remove Queen's College, whichis a day-school, into the buildings of thepresent University, thus enabling the proposedsite of the new Queen's College at East Point,which is badly wanted for building expansion,to be utilized for building dwelling-houses.

On the financial side, bearing in mind thedifference in value between land at East Pointand land on the South side of the Island, andbearing in mind, also, the fact that the newQueen's College is estimated to cost a milliondollars, and taking into consideration, also, thevalue of the present Queen's College site, itlooks as if the scheme were a feasible one. Wed o n o t , o f c o u r s e , e x p e c t t h e


Government to give any opinion on such a bigscheme just now, but we trust that they willtake the above suggestion into their veryserious consideration.

We understand that the Chinese Membersare also brining forward a suggestion for thegranting of recreation facilities in the King'sPark to Chinese. Without committingthemselves to recommending any allotment ofland in that particular locality, which weunderstand is already heavily pledged tovarious Clubs and Institutions, the EuropeanUnofficial Members are entirely in sympathywith the granting of increased facilities forrecreation to the Chinese community.

Having now finished all the remarks which Ihave to make on behalf of the general body ofUnofficial Members, I should like to add a fewremarks of my own.

HIGH COST OF FOOD, ETC.

In the first place one would like to knowwhy the Government has ceased to take anyinterest in fixing the local price of food andother necessaries. Even allowing for the extrarent which has to be paid by persons doingbusiness in Hongkong, and also for a smallcharge for freight from Canton to Hongkong. itlooks as if the people of this Colony werepaying, as compared with the people of Canton,too much for their meat, fish, firewood andother necessaries of life. I trust that theGovernment will look into this matter.

TRAMS IN KOWLOON

I should like to suggest for the considerationof the Government whether it is advisable tohave any trams at all in Kowloon. I candidlyadmit that until recently my view has been thatwe required for the adequate development ofthe Kowloon hinterland to avail ourselves ofevery possible means of communication. I amnow, however, inclined to doubt whether thatview is correct, seeing that in London andother large cities the motor bus has beendriving out the Tram.

Furthermore, the bus has three advantagesover the Tram, namely, firstly, it is mobile andnot tied to any fixed track; and, secondly, it isfaster than the tram; and, thirdly, it is less

noisy.

Another disadvantage in employing trams isthat they tend to impede the working of motorbus and car traffic.

HOUSING COMMISSION REPORT

With regard to the Housing CommissionReport, I take this opportunity of thankingYour Excellency for your kind reference to thework of the Commissioners in your Budgetspeech. I quite realise the fact that the Reporthas been published too recently for it tobecome at present the subject of any debate inthis Council.

HON. MR. P. H. HOLYOAK ― YourExcellency, I desire to associate myself withmy colleague, the Senior Unofficial Member,in congratulating you on the satisfactory stateof the Colony's finances, the more so that itresults not from abnormally prosperous tradeconditions, but from entirely abnormalconditions in the neighbouring provinces. I amoptimistic enough to believe that when traderesumes its normal sway, as we hope it will dobefore long as the result of more settledconditions in the adjacent territories, that theprosperity which the Colony has seen duringthe past twelve months will not only bemaintained but exceeded, because I haveabsolute confidence that much of the capitalwhich has found its way into this Colonyduring the past two years has come here tostay and will remain as permanent investmentseither in property which has been bought, or insubstantial shares in which it has beeninvested.

SUGGESTED REDUCTION OF LIQUOR AND

TOBACCO DUTIES

B e c au s e o f t h i s a n d b ec a u s e o f t h ef l o u r i s h i n g c on d i t i o n s t o w h ic h y o u rExcellency has referred, I venture to suggest toyou that the time is opportune for at leastreducing the liquor and tobacco taxes by 50per cent., if not altogether. This taxation hasall along been abnormally high. It representssomething like 50 per cent. on every man'swi n e a nd sp i r i t a cc o un t mon t h l y, a ndnecessarily adds the high cost of living. If itwere necessary, naturally I would uphold it,but on your Excellency's own showing I do not


think the tax can be defended in these days.Indeed I have always felt that indirect taxationin this Colony, whilst we have to submit to itduring war conditions for obvious reasons, isboth indefensible and unwise, and should notbe continued a moment longer than is reallynecessary. This is essentially a port which hasbeen built up on free trade principles and thesooner we can get back to conditions of freetrade, as far as we possibly can, the better forthe future of the Colony. If it is necessary laterto increase taxation again, I suggest to you itwould be better done―not by indirect taxationof this nature which means additional RevenueOfficers to collect it―but by direct taxationwhich taxes everybody.

COLONY'S BALANCES WITH THE CROWN

AGENTS

I fully endorse what my colleague, theSenior Unofficial Member, has said withreference to the investment of the Colony'ssurplus balances, and in this connection Iwould ask for a detailed statement of the latestadvices of Investments made by the CrownAgents of Hongkong funds, laid upon the table,every month. I am credibly informed that outof cash balances amounting in August, to£780,000 no less a sum than £539,000 wasdeposited with the "P. & O. BankingCorporation" at rates of interest varying from2 1

4 per cent. to 4 per cent., though only asmall proportion is at the latter figure. It wouldbe interesting to know and it is desirable thatwe should be told, why this recentlyconstituted Bank should have been selected forso large a deposit, with one exception, to theentire exclusion of other Eastern Banks andwhat are the securities held against it. Isuggest that the time has now come forincreasing the limit of $2,000,000 which Iunderstand can now be obtained on deposit.

I now claim your indulgence to refer atsome length to the question of a high powerwireless installation in this Colony.

COMMERCIAL WIRELESS

On the 20th April, 1911, the late Mr. Hewitt,my predecessor, speaking as the representativeof the Chamber of Commerce, asked thefollowing question: ― "With regard to the

installation and operation of a Station forWireless Telegraphy in this Colony, and inview of the fact that the Commercialcommunity is becoming restless at theapparent inaction of this Government, will theGovernment state definitely what steps it maybe prepared to take to furnish what is now anabsolute necessity for a Colony, the greatestpart of whose trade and life is connected withshipping?"; and in the same month wrote tothe Government on behalf of the Chamber ofCommerce, as Chairman, a letter from which Iquote the following:―"We are of the opinionthat a Station with an assured radius of 1,500miles is urgently needed in the interests of thewhole trade of the Colony and that nothingless should be accepted as meeting our presentneeds."

On the 3rd October, 1912, a resolution onthe same subject was moved by the Hon. Mr.Pollock and during the course of a lengthydebate upon the subject the late Mr. Rossremarked (in terms which still apply):―"In thedays of invention and rapid change the Colonyof Hongkong cannot afford to stand still orwait. Already we lag behind. Witness thesewireless stations in Japan and the Philippinesand even in parts of the neighbouring Republicof China, whilst Hongkong, probably thegreatest, or one of the greatest shipping portsin the world, is, in the matter of wirelesscommunication, dependent upon the courtesyor good offices of one of His Majesty's ships.It is not due to any lack of enterprise on thepart of the commercial community, that awireless station has not already beenestablished here, for we have to wait thepleasure of the Home Government in thismatter, and while I do not think any of usdoubt the wisdom of the decision arrived at bythe Imperial Conference, that all wirelessStations should be State controlled, I think thatthis Council should urge to the utmost of itsendeavours that the matter be not furtherdelayed."

Seven years passed on and on the 10th April,1919, I myself moved a further resolution ona l m o s t p r e c i s e l y t h e s a m e


lines, and in replying to me the OfficerAdministering the Government stated:―

"As regards the larger station to whichreference was made, there is no doubt in mymind, and I have seen nothing to alter myview, that the station erected at StonecuttersIsland is the station which was referred toby the Postmaster-General. It is the station,which, in ordinary circumstances, I feelcertain, would have been in full use longago in connection with the Singapore stationand other stations for commercial purposeshad not the war intervened. There is verylittle doubt in my mind that before very longwe shall be in a position to use it forcommercial cables.

And in summing up the debate and replyingto it His Excellency said:

"Moreover, I pointed out that as far as Iknow the present station would becomeavailable for commercial messages in thechain of high-power stations already inexistence."

Well sir, it is well known to all of us that theinformation at the disposal of the OfficerAdministering the Government at the time wasapparently incorrect. For the fact has beenfairly established, and increasingly so as timehas gone on, that the station was neverintended for a commercial station, and in factwas a naval station from the verycommencement of it. Commercial use of itwas limited to two hours a day which, as far asthe experience of the Chamber of Commercegoes, is perfectly useless to us. It is wellrecognised that in times of crises those twohours a day would naturally be withdrawn.Since then, in the following year, 1922, the 9thof January, my hon. friend, Mr. Pollock askeda question on the subject as he had done onmany occasions before and was told again thatit was impossible to make a statement, andfrom varying times onward―from 1920 to thepresent day―that has been pretty much thereply of the Government, and so far as I knowthe file and have the liberty to disclose it thatis pretty much the position to-day. Whilst thePost Office at Home, to-day is quarrelling withthe Marconi Company as to its shares ofinterest and division of profits, the needs ofthe Empire, in this Colony in particular,

continue to suffer, and will do. Whatever theneeds of the high power station were in 1911,and I think they were fairly illustrated then,and have been increasingly so ever since, theyare a thousand-fold intensified to-day. Owingto the disturbed conditions of the neighbouringterritories your Excellency is aware that, forweeks on end, it was impossible tocommunicate with Canton by telephone,Swatow has been cut off, Japan was cut offduring the recent earthquake and we have torely entirely on the courtesy of His Majesty'sships, including the Naval Station here.Shanghai, even last week, was cut off and iscut off to-day, and meanwhile theneighbouring ports with very high powerinstallations belonging to other powers profitat our expense. I do not wish, sir, during aBudget debate, to elaborate the point, but Iventure to hope that in view of the urgentneeds you will consent to include in yourestimates a considerable sum for theestablishment of our own high power stationwith a radius of not less than 1,500 miles,which will enable us to maintain continuouscontact with Shanghai and beyond in the North,and Singapore in the South. Then, even thoughthe telegraph system break down, we shall beable to maintain continuous contact,―eventhough it be by the courtesy of His Majesty'sships in port―with our nationals in other portswhich are cut off. At present we are quiteunable to do so and we are very largely left tothe mercy and courtesy of friendly nations tosupply information which ought to betransmitted direct. Even the power station atD'Aguilar which was meant for ship to shoreconnections, from the time it was installeddown to the present time, has never workedsatisfactorily. The Chamber of Commerce andindividual firms connected with it constantlyand repeatedly have complaints frompassengers arriving by incoming mails thathigh power wireless establishments on shipshave found it impossible to communicate withthis Colony of Hongkong within three hundredmiles, and twice this year I have tried fourhundred miles out and have not succeeded inestablishing communication beyond a hundredand thirty miles.

THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT

I pass now, sir, for one moment to thesubj ec t o f the Publ ic Works es t ima te s


and I do not in any sense intend to discussthem either in detail or at length. I should likepersonally to congratulate the Public WorksDepartment on their remarkable achievements,short-handed as they have been, during thepast year, and admittedly are, upon theambitious programme which they are carryingon. I would suggest for the consideration ofthe Director of Public Works the dangerouscondition of Garden Road. I have noticed, asyou all have done lately, that on the left handside of the road a considerable number of oldtrees have been removed, which, whilst weregret the loss, is obviously a step in the rightdirection of public safety. The motor traffic upGarden Road to the danger of the pedestrian isso great to-day that it scarcely needs anyemphasis whatever and I suggest that not onlythe pathway on the left hand side of the roadshould be put in complete order but that thegutters on both sides of the road should becovered in temporarily with cement covers, sothat it will give something like two feet moreto the road, and that a discussion with themilitary authority take place with a view toseeing whether we cannot obtain somethinglike six feet of ground, loaned to us from theparade ground, in order to construct a pathway.No one who walks up Garden Road or takes achair up there in these days of increasingmotor traffic can fail to be impressed with thedanger to pedestrains, or even those in chairsand I submit the public should be catered forand protected by the Public WorksDepartment.

HAIR-PIN BENDS AND TRAFFIC CONTROL

One other subject in connection with thePublic Works Department is that of two hair-pen bends, one of which is to be found justbeyond the building in which we are met,approaching Government House, and the otherat the extreme corner before reachingGovernment House Both these bends shouldbe widened so as to make them less dangerousthan they are at present. I suggest with theincrease of motor traffic, and the fact that wenow have over one thousand cars registered inthe Colony, and that within a vear probably wemay double that number, that the main pointsof traffic control ought to be controlled byEuropean police. I suggest that at the bottomof Garden Road, at the corner of Pedder Streetand Queen's Road, and at the corner of Des

Vœux Road and Pedder Street, just oppositethe Post Office,―all these points should beunder the control of European police.Admirable as the native police are with thelimited instruction they have had in the shorttime, they are not, I think, adequate to controlheavy motor traffic at any one of these points.They are liable to get excited. They do notgive the proper signal, as I know from my ownexperience of driving, nor do the approachingchauffeurs take due notice of them as theyought to do. I would welcome not only theestablishment of European police at givenpoints but prosecution by the police of peoplewho ignore the signs and pass them.

HON. MR. CHOW SHOU-SON―Sir,―TheHonourable Senior Unofficial Member hasmentioned certain points as having been putforward by the Chinese Members of Council,and I beg leave to go over them in some detail.

Under "Miscellaneous Services" $60,000has been inserted for Rent Allowances which,I understand, are for those European CivilServants who are not occupying Governmentquarters. At a meeting of this Council held onthe 30th August, the Honourable Mr. Kotewallmade an appeal on behalf of the non-EuropeanCivil Servants for similar relief; and I waspleased to find, on looking up the Hansardreport of that meeting, that the suggestion wassympathetically received by the Government.If, for financial reasons, it is found impossibleto extend the privilege throughout the Service,I would support Mr. Kotewall's suggestion tomake a start with subordinates who have morethan ten years' service.

Arising out of the item "Grant in Aid ofUniversity of Hongkong" under the same mainhead, I wish to dwell upon a very importantquestion affecting the Institution. From time totime certain prominent Chinese residents, andlately a member of the University staff, haveexpressed to both my Chinese colleague andmyself the view that it would be to the benefitof that Institution if it could be removed to amore secluded and salubrious spot on theIsland. The Honourable Mr. Pollock has, in hisspeech, roughly outlined a scheme whichlooks to the Unoff ic ia l Members to bepracticable; and it only remains for me to add


that the hostels, or some of them, whenvacated by the University students, wouldmake very suitable quarters for GovernmentServants. As stated by Mr. Pollock, theGovernment cannot be expected to pronounce,here and now, a definite opinion on such animportant proposition; but it is hoped that theywill give to it the careful consideration whichit deserves.

On behalf of the Confucian Society, myChinese colleague and I strongly appeal to theGovernment for further assistance. In 1919 agrant of $10,000 was made to the Society inaid of its elementary vernacular schools, butthis sum has long been exhausted; and lastyear owing to lack of funds the society wascompelled to close four of them ― aretrogressive step which, we think, is to bedeplored. The insufficient number ofelementary vernacular schools has for manyyears been keenly felt by the Chinesecommunity, and the situation has lately beenaccentuated by the Child Labour Ordinance.Useful as are the unassisted voluntary effortsof the Confucian Society, they have proved tobe sadly inadequate and it seems but fair thatthe Government should share the burden. Wetherefore hope that the Government will makean annual grant to the Society, which is doingsuch good work in the education of poorchildren, to enable it to open more schools.

In connection with the item "Maintenance ofRecreation Grounds," Kowloon, under PublicWorks Recurrent, we ask that a piece ofground in King's Park be allotted to theChinese. The park may have already beenheavily pledged to various non-Chinese clubsand institutions, but we respectfully submitthat the Chinese community is entitled to theuse of a part of it.

Your Excellency in the speech introducingthe Budget said, in connection with items 44and 98 under Public Works Extraordinary, thatthe Government was considering thepossibility of removing the main cemeteries toan adjacent island. We shall be glad to havefull particulars of the scheme before it iscarried into effect, as we wish to examine itcarefully to see if it is inconvenient andexpensive to the Chinese, especially to thepoorer classes.

Without advocating for the moment the

control of food prices, we support thesuggestion of the Honourable SeniorUnofficial Member that the question of itspracticability and the general question of theprevailing abnormally high prices of allnecessaries of life, may be carefully lookedinto by the Government.

To obviate periodic recurrence of the greathardship which the shortage of our water-supply has in the past brought to the poorerclasses, we urge that any scheme or schemeswhich the Government may have in view forincreasing our water-supply should be taken inhand with every possible speed. The ShingMun Waterworks scheme, which is to cost$17,000,000, and upon which Your Excellencydwelt at some length in your Budget speech,appears to be necessary, enormous though itscost is; but we are of the opinion that it shouldbe financed by means of a loan. The usualargument against the raising of large loans tofinance public undertakings as tending tocareless expenditure cannot, we submit, beadduced against this scheme, as it must beagreed by all that the expenditure is one ofabsolute necessity to the Colony. Nor can it besuccessfully maintained that it is unfair to passon to posterity, which will have its own needsand burdens, a legacy of debt created by theimprudence of the present generation, for thescheme will benefit succeeding generations noless than ourselves. We look upon anyproposed loan for this undertaking as apermanent investment of capital, a form ofloaning which has the support of economistsand public financiers of the highest standing. Iam glad that this opinion of ours, like theothers mentioned by the Honourable SeniorUnofficial Member, has the support of ourUnofficial colleagues.

While joining in congratulations to YourExcellency upon the very satisfactory conditionin the finances of the Colony, we deem itnecessary to sound a note of warning againstembarking upon expenditure that is notabsolutely necessary. At the present moment wehappen to have a large surplus, but we shouldnot forget that it has been largely built up by therevenue derived from two items―Opium andLand Sales―which cannot for ever continue toyield their present quota of income. Far be itfrom us to suggest postponing public works


which are essential to the development of theColony, or withholding ameliorative measuresfrom public servants to make them contented;but we advise close scrutiny of every freshdemand for expenditure so that, when therainy day comes, as it is bound to come soonor late, we may be able to face it withequanimity.

HON. MR. A. R. LOWE―Sir,―I desire toassociate myself with the remarks on theBudget which have been expressed by myUnofficial colleagues and to congratulate theGovernment on the extraordinary financialliquid strength of the Colony's finances, which,I believe, no other part of the British Empirecan equal. The Government estimates a stillfurther surplus at the end of 1923 after payingsome $5,000,000 out of revenue for capitalexpenditure. This state of things is all verywell if it is a matter of luck.

"LEGALISED ROBBERY BY OVER-TAXATION"

Partly it is luck, I admit, but there is a partwhich consists of legalised robbery in theshape of over-taxation of the individual, andfor the past few years this has been so patentas to be a disgrace to the Administration iftaxation is merely meant to cover recurrentexpenditure plus a fair allowance in the shapeof contributions to sinking funds to wipe outcapital expenditure, which in every other wellor badly conducted country, colony ormunicipality is provided for by borrowings.Under our peculiar conditions we should onlyrequire to borrow annually a sum equal to theCapital Expenditure less Capital receipts in theshape of Land Sales.

Last year, when I had the honour ofspeaking on behalf of the Justices of the Peaceon the 1923 Budget, I foretold the largelyincreased surplus at the end of 1923, which theOfficer Administering the Government did hisbest at some length to belittle if notinferentially deny. He attempted to comparethe Colony with a Public Limited Companyand asked permission to build up a reserve of$10,000,000 as "an equalization of dividendfund." I do not see any justification for such acomparison, but, assuming the Governmentwere justified, they have easily exceeded thelimit of $10,000,000. Even according to theirown figures, this so-called Reserve has

increased from $6,400,000 in 1921 to$12,600,000 in 1922, and will be $14,000,000at the end of 1923 at least, in fact it has gonebeyond that already. Even these figures are$2,200,000 lower than they should be, as theShipping Control profits are erroneouslytreated as a liability. Under similarcircumstances the Directors of a LimitedCompany would find it very difficult towithhold paying a bonus dividend of four tosix million dollars, and therefore theGovernment can easily afford to refund four tosix million dollars taxation on account of 1923―that is, if they desire to live up to their word.

As an old resident of over 25 years' standing,and especially speaking as a Governmentnominee, I want to see the Government keeptheir word, like they did over the 50 per cent.increase in rates during the War. This can bedone to some extent by suspending the dutiescollectable on Liquor and Tobacco, estimatedin 1924 to produce $3,395,000, which wouldalso bring us back to the proud position weheld so long of being a free port. I asked forthis reduction last year and it has since beenjustified, but it was not responded to by theGovernment although the OfficerAdministering the Government admitted theduties on light wines were too heavy andwould be reconsidered, which has not beendone apparently. Further, you, Sir, haverecently objected to the high price of alcoholicliquor in the hotels and I offer this solution ofyour difficulty.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―No, I have notobjected.

HON. MR. LOWE―I am sorry, Sir. Then Ihave made a mistake. I think the very least theGovernment can do is to reduce the duties tothe level of those collected by the ChineseCustoms, which would then bring the price ofdrinks down to those ruling on the ChinaCoast.

A HOMELY ILLUSTRATION

I trust I have made the foregoing figuresintelligible, but, as they are larger than most of ususually have any knowledge of, I will try to bringthem home to you in a more personal manner. It isnot unusual for husbands to brag to their


"better halves" when they get a rise in salaryor find they have had a successful year, whichduring 1922 amounted to some $4,000,000clear after spending $5,000,000 on permanentimprovements. I'm sure congratulations wouldat once be forthcoming, and "I'm so glad"would be quickly followed with "because Isaw some lovely new frocks in Powell's andMadame Flint's this morning and the childrenwant a holiday at Weihaiwei." I hope nohusband would dare to reply: "I'm so sorry, itcan't be done, my dear, because I've alreadysent the money to invest in London andQueensland." At least he wouldn't say it twice,which he might be asked to do if he hadspoken rather absent-mindedly. Hongkongwould not be a very pleasant place for such ahusband to live in, and I'm glad to see so manyof the Official members of this Council aremarried, so I take it they will like to livehappily in Hongkong during the coming year.

THE OPIUM REVENUE

The original justification some years ago forthese taxes was that the Opiumtax would cease.This has proved to be false, but what hasproved to be true is the public's ability to findfresh taxation when necessary, even to agreater extent than that derived from opium.We have for some years, and especiallyrecently, read a lot of hypocritical gush inspeeches in Europe by representatives ofcertain interested nations on the subject ofopium prohibition.

HIS EXCELLENCY―Order, order. I cannotallow the hon. member, speaking in thisCouncil, to insult the representatives offriendly Powers. He must at least give themcredit for honesty. The term "hypocriticalgush" cannot be used in this Council inrelation to the utterances of the representativesof friendly Powers.

HON. MR. LOWE said he was willing towithdraw the word "hypocritical."

H.E. THE GOVERNOR ― If the hon.member substitutes some such phrase as"erroneous views," it will meet the case.

HON. MR. LOWE assented to the correction.

HON. MR. LOWE ― Recent events indicate

that a more fit value is now being placed onsuch utterances, and I trust that yourExcellency's most excellent remarks on theneed for the tax and the impossibility of with-drawing it under present conditions (whichshow no signs of likely alteration) will impresson the Honourable Colonial Secretary that hisreply to my question on the same day to theeffect "that it is certain the large revenuederived from the opium tax must entirely ceasein the near future" was not justified, andtherefore his denial of over-taxation falls tothe ground.

HOW TO READ THE ACCOUNTS

The Colonial Secretary also said that Iimplied that Land Sales should balance CapitalExpenditure. I never said or implied anythingof the sort, but I will agree that Land Salesplus borrowing on Loan should equal CapitalExpenditure, and then any difference betweenthe other receipts and payments will showwhether we are under or over taxed each year.The Government figures show that under sucha system Ordinary Revenue has been over-raised by about 15 per cent. in 1920, 20 percent. in 1921, 23 per cent. in 1922, 18 per cent.in 1923, and they are now asking for 15 percent. in 1924, amounting to over $3,000,000.The Government were asked by me last year toslightly alter their form of Revenue andExpenditure Account which hides this state ofaffairs from the public. They carefully showthe Revenue, exclusive of Land Sales, which isquite right; but they mix up CapitalExpenditure on the other side of the Accountamongst General Expenditure. It is neitherlogical nor fair and should be altered.Regarding

THE COLONY'S BALANCE SHEET

There isn't one. As I have reminded youalready, His Excellency the Officer Administeringthe Government likened the Government to apublic company, but I do not know what theshareholders of, say, our leading Bank wouldremark if the Directors sent out the 40 or so listsof Assets and Liabilities of their Branches withthe intimation that shareholders could make uptheir own General Balance-sheet if they wanted tofind out whether the Bank was solvent and how


much there was to pay a dividend. However, Ihave supplied such a Balancesheet to theGovernment for each of the years 1921 and1922, bringing into account our Loansoutstanding and Sinking Fund investments.These show that, without the Shipping Controlprofits, we could have paid off all ourliabilities and still been $890,000 to the goodat the end of 1921, whilst at the end of 1922we could have paid every penny we owed andbeen $4,900,000 to the good. This is the stateof affairs after spending many millions out ofRevenue on Public Works and Railwaybetween 1900 and 1922. With reference to

THE COLONY'S WAR LOAN OF $3,000,000

AT 6%

I have pointed out that, according to theOrdinance, this could have been paid off onand after 3rd November, 1921, if there hadbeen surplus cash to do so, which they had inplenty, and also that the Government werelosing by paying out 6 per cent. on the loanand getting less on the Sinking Fundinvestments. This latter fact is denied by theColonial Secretary, but the Governmentaccounts show that of some $1,800,000 thereis invested in the Sinking Fund $400,000 at 7per cent., $500,000 at 6 per cent., and$900,000 at 5 per cent., which only averagesless than 5 3

4 per cent. The balance of$1,200,000 unprovided for in the SinkingFund may be said to be covered by the$600,000 in the Bank, earning probably 2 percent., and the rest in other Sterling investmentssuch as 4 per cent. Funding Loan, which onlybrings in about 4 1

2 per cent., and this averagewill be further reduced as the short loaninvestments will bear a much lower interest.The excuse is that the investments in Sterlinghave luckily risen in value and that exchangehas gone down, which more than covers theloss. This is a gamble pure and simple, andhowever lucky they may be at the moment I donot agree with such a policy and still considerthe loan should be paid off. The bogey of theMilitary Authorities claiming more becausethe loan is paid off in total instead of byinstalments does not seem fair to me. As far asI can see, they are for some reason making usan allowance of $76,000 a year until 1928 inexchange for a $3,000,000 gift in 1916. Surely,it is only logical to suppose that if we discount

this allowance at 5 per cent. for the remaining5 years in the 1924 Estimates they will be gladto receive $76,000 a year more than theyexpected to get in the following years to 1928.It is asking something of the Government toalter their finance arrangements, but oursurplus funds are abnormal, which is myjustification for doing so. It will also simplifythe accounts, and our credit as a borrowingpower (when we require to become one)should be enhanced by showing we can payoff borrowings before their time, especiallywithout the necessity of re-borrowing as mostcountries are forced to do. Coming now to the

INSCRIBED STOCK LOAN £1,485,000 AT 3 12 %.

This is repayable in 1943 at par and it isquot ed in th e Lo ndon Marke t a t 81 o rthereabouts. The impossibility of buying itback because it is too tightly held wants somebelieving as the price has risen from 66 at theend of 1921, and how the Government canknow this without having referred to theCrown Agents, I don't pretend to know. Itseems strange we can buy Queensland stockbut not Hongkong stock. However, assumingthere is some truth in this assertion and that weeither don't want to pay off, or the holderswon't be paid off, the fact remains we have themoney in Surplus funds to do this and the nextbest thing, in my opinion, is to pay it or ratherwipe it off our books by transferring so muchof our free investments in British GovernmentStock to the Sinking Fund as will be sufficientto balance the account. In other words, thedebit side will show the loan outstanding at£1,485,000, and on the credit side "SinkingFund Investment at cost, £1,485,000." Theeffect would be a record amongst the list ofGovernment Investments in the Londonfinancial papers; further, our mouths will beless inclined to water at the sight of a lesserh i g h s u r p l u s t h a n t h e J u n e f i g u r e o f$15,367,000 and a reduction in the bottled-uprage at not being allowed to get at it . Inaddition, our accounts would be simplified andthe estimated expenditure of $999,603 forInterest and Sinking Funds would not berequired. It is true that Interest receivable$650,000 would not be so large, but thecompensation for this is that we shouldn't haveto pay the War Off i ce 20 pe r cen t . , o r


$130,000 in 1924, for the privilege of keepingour accounts in the present form. If this savingis effected it must be decided on before theend of the present year.

THE COLONY'S INVESTMENTS

I am very glad to see the Government havein one instance taken to heart my argument lastyear that the Colony would be richer foremploying its surplus taxes locally instead ofinvesting in London. I refer to the $400,000 7per cent. Mortgage in Chinese Estates, Ltd. Anextension of this policy is desirable, as itwould fulfil the recommendations of theHousing Commission for Governmentassistance in the laying-out of further land tomeet the shortage of houses.

I see from the June, 1923, accounts, andparticulars are given of the Colony'sinvestments costing $6,105,744, from which itcan be calculated that the market price hadrisen to $7,369,000 at 2/3, which is verysatisfactory though I don't quite approve of the£41,000 Queensland Stock From recentGovernment answers it appears that the largersum of $7,580,911, under the heading of"Crown Agents Deposit Account," is not whatit appears to be but is another InvestmentAccount representing short Loans, etc., and Iam glad my colleagues have asked for astatement of these from which, whenpublished, I trust our local Bankers andfinanciers can see whether they can offerbetter terms. Presumably, the Governmenthave not particulars, otherwise they wouldhave given the information regarding names ofborrowers, amount, rate of interest and period,in the same manner in which the other morepermanent investments are stated.

I am glad to note that since I called attentionto the matter the Colonial Office has kindlyallowed us to keep up to $2,000,000 with localBankers, if our Officials think it desirable, inplace of $700,000 in past years. Perhaps quiterightly, the Hon. Colonial Treasurer has notavailed himself of this privilege to the full.Anyhow, it shows the Colonial Office isamenable to reason to some extent when calledupon to exercise it. I now want to go further,as, having previously shown we have cash laidaside much more than sufficient to pay off ourlocal and London borrowings, I think we areentitled to ask for full power to invest oursurplus money as our Officials, with the

approval of the Unofficial Members, maythink fit. The previous fatherly attitude of theColonial Office has been very stern and safe indealing with its Hongkong son. It has notallowed its son to launch out on his own, as itsuncles and cousins have been allowed to do,by borrowings to enable capital expendituresto be logically spread over their estimatedusable life, except in very extra-ordinarycircumstances. The consequence is thatHongkong's individuality has been stunted inthe past, and we are reaping the disadvantageas our Government machinery is unable, andhas been for some years, to cope with PublicWorks Extraordinary.

THE QUEENSLAND LOAN AND CONSTITUTIONAL

REFORM

Arising out of what I have just said, we findout that this year the Crown Agents have,without so much as "by your leave," started toinvest our over taxation in Queensland Stockand are still buying. Personally, I have noquarrel with Queensland. From all accounts itis a very rich undeveloped country over fivetimes as big as the British Isles but with apopulation of only 700,000, which is roughlywhat Hongkong alone possesses. The ColonialOffice, presumably, exercises some controlover it, and a justly celebrated late Governorof Hongkong, Sir Mathew Nathan, apparentlyrules over its destinies at half the salary wewere pleased to pay him here. Perhaps rightly,they have been allowed to borrow £85,000,000for Public Works Extraordinary or over £100per head of each inhabitant, and rumour is theyare going to London for more soon. Againstthis their Sinking Funds are lower than anyother Australian Colony, none of which shinesmuch in this direction.

What I want to emphasise here is thedifferential treatment against Hongkong. Is itthe Colonial Office, or the whim of ownOfficials, which forces us to be treated likeirresponsible children? The irony of it is thatwe irresponsibles are forced to lend our moneyto help our, to my thinking, audacious cousins.The Government nominees in the Upper Housein Queensland were discharged last year andthe Governor alone presides over the ExecutiveCouncil of elected Cabinet Ministers. TheLegislative Assembly (which corresponds


with our Legislative Council) is composed of 72elected Members and every man and woman inthe Colony has a vote. A recent article in theNational Review on Queensland refers to it as "aBolshevic corner of the Empire," and supportsthis description with facts.

There are a number of Europeans in thisColony who think they ought to have a vote, andthat the European Government nominees on theCouncil (of whom I happen at the moment to beone) should be abolished. It is a very modestprogramme and I am heartily in agreement withit. We find the Government Officials ofHongkong are very much averse to theConstitutional Reform Association of Hongkong.They frown and look down on it at everyopportunity. Perhaps the reason is that most ofthem enjoy their weekly holiday afternoon at theLegislative Council meetings, but if you, Sir,will take a "tip" from Queensland it would not benecessary for Officials to leave their offices, as arecent law makes the Queensland Governmentsafe from defeat even on a snap division, as theleaders carry their followers' proxies with themand vote for their supporters if they happen to beabsent. My argument merely amounts to this, ifthe Government puts its money on theQueensland horse it must have some faith in itsstrength and staying power. My particular fancyis the Hongkong colt, and if you are going to useHongkong and Kowloon money I would prefer iton "Hongkong" to "Queensland," and even ifyou are not in agreement with me I merely askyou to give us some (not all, for conditions aresomewhat different) of the advantages you arewilling to give the Queenslander.

Perhaps I am blaming the Governmentunjustifiably if they claim to be innocent partiesto their own bet and that the Crown Agents andthe Under Secretaries for the Colonies betweenthe Straits and Wei Hai Wei (Messrs, Collins,Becket, Pashim and Gent) also did not knowwhat they were doing. If this is so, then I think itis time the Hongkong Government managed itsown affairs and annually invited one of thesegentlemen to Hongkong to make sure they doknow when they advise anything that Hongkongis an actual spot with a strong dash of red in it,and red as good as their own and entitled toreasonable treatment.

I will say this for Queensland, and that is theycan grow a Cypress pine yielding an aromaticconiferous hardwood which is a white antresistant and is therefore used for commonhousebuilding purposes. It would be a great

thing for Hongkong if our "AfforestationDepartment" could manage to indigenize such atree and save future architects and contractorsmuch wasted effort and house-owners muchexpense.

PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT EXPENDITURES

The recently published figures summarisingcosts and estimates of the P.W.D. have been readwith much interest, and the annual reproductionof them for at least a decade is the only means offocussing the work done by this Department.The Government's decision not to republish itup-to-date annually on the ground that it isuseless is, in my opinion, to be deplored as, Iunderstand, a somewhat similar statement ispublished by the Ceylon Government, but I amsure the Hon. Director of Public Works will findit necessary to keep up the statistics for his ownprivate check. I am sure, therefore, the public,whose money he is spending, would like to be inpossession of a similar easy comparison of thislarge spending Department. Personally, I wouldhave said it is a useful statement, though not anice one. It does show that prior to 1919 theDepartment did actually complete nearly all thework they engaged to do, but never since; and54% is a bad figure for 1922, and if there is anyimprovement in 1923 I shall be surprised. Wewant to see this percentage improve considerablylong before the D.P.W. retires on pension. Again,it is being drummed into us , by the Pressparticularly, that prices have gone up 100% inrecent years. If this is correct we must discountthe large increase in P.W. Extraordinary by 50%,which I take to mean, but subject to correction,that in spite of a large increase in personalemoluments little (if any) more constructivework has been done than, say, 5 years ago.Further, these figures provide an easier methodof guessing where we are with the futureEstimates. For instance, if the Revised Estimatesfor 1922, produced in October, 1922, onlyresulted in $3,500,000 being spent when only$1,100,000 was spent up to June, what is thechance of the revised estimate of $4,743,000 for1923, just shot at us, being justified when theJune accounts only show $1,339,000 spent? Onthe facts it doesn't look honest, and one can onlyguess this is a political manœuvre to bolster upt h e 1 9 2 4 B u d g e t i n t h e s a m e


manner as has been done during the past fouryears with the object of providing a plausiblereason for non-reduction of taxation.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR― I do not quitefollow the hon. member. Does he mean tosuggest that the figures have been deliberatelyfalsified?

HON. MR. LOWE―No.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―If that is not so Ishall be obliged if the hon. member will read itagain. That was the impression he gave me,and I should like hon. members not to be underthe same impression.

HON. MR. LOWE― I will use the word"logical." It means the same to me as anaccountant.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR ― The statementappears to be an accusation that theGovernment has falsified its figures to agreewith its policy. If the hon. member does notmean this, I must ask him to say what hemeans. I cannot allow that statement to pass.

HON. MR. LOWE hesitated to reply.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR ― If the hon.member is unable to explain himself, he hadbetter resume his remarks.

HON. MR. LOWE (resuming) ― Thestatistics clearly show that the P.W.D. is eithernot doing its work, or, if it is, then it isshouldering the blame for which anotherDepartment is responsible, and I thereforethink their continued publication is justified.

THE RAILWAY

Your Excellency has referred to the decisionof the Government to reorganise the RailwayAccounts in the form I have agitated for yearsprevious to last year's debate, and it is notsurprising that this decision arrived at in theSpring came as a shock to me and,unfortunately, it found me in a less favourableposition to cope with what is required than Ibelieved myself to be in last year. In any case,if my whole staff had been employed, the worknecessary to restate some 16 Balance-sheets ofa complicated nature and with the necessarystatistics (without which they would be useless)could not have been finished now, as yourExcellency indicated he had hoped it would be.

I have given some thought and attention to thematter and made some enquiries both inCanton and Hongkong, and I hope shortly todiscuss the matter again with the Hon.Colonial Treasurer. Unfortunately, when wehave met our deliberations have had to beconfined to Hotel financial details in which heis equally, if not more so, interested, Iunderstand, from a Government point of view.I hope, however, to agree with the Governmentin a scheme by which most of the work will bedone by the present Railway staff with theaddition of a clerk or two.

CIVIL SERVANTS AND WIDOWS AND ORPHANS'

FUND

Last year I made some remarks on thereorganisation of the Widows and Orphans'Fund with special reference to one of my ownclan, the late Mr Brayn, who left a widow andtwo young children, and I see from the 1924Estimates that she has been granted a pensionof £101.4.7. per annum. This does not seem tome a very adequate income for such aresponsibility, even if the deceased didcontribute to it out of his salary, and I can'tfind out any sum at all paid to the widow ofthe late Mr. Hutchison, who had no children. Itrust the Government will make acompassionate allowance in both these sadcases and include in it, in the case of Mr.Brayn, the back pay if any, which I understandhe forfeited by dying a few months earlier thanit was decided on.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Sir, myoutstanding impression from the remarkswhich have been made by the Hon. Memberswho have spoken is one of surprise―and Imay add of gratification―that they have foundfault with so little, the reason being, perhaps,that they now keep themselves so constantly intouch with the Government over all mattersconnected with the welfare of the Colony thatt h e p r o g r a mme b e f o r e u s r e c o r d s t h econsidered opinion of the community, ratherthan ex part e r ecommendat ions by t heExecutive. The two main criticisms have beenin respect of the staffing of the Public WorksDepartment, and the strength of the PoliceForce. I think that here I can largely refute theSenior Unofficial Member out of his ownmouth, in his advice to the Government


that it should work according to businessmethods. The Government does endeavour―although you may not think it ― to workaccording to business methods, but it has thecustody of other people's money, for which itis responsible, and therefore it has to proceedwith a caution which is not necessary to theindividual merchant who is taking his ownprivate risks with his own private money. Wemodel ourselves rather upon the Hongkongand Shanghai Bank ― which is also aninstitution having the custody andresponsibility for other people's money―andnot upon the individual who takes big risks inthe hope of big profits. It is not necessary, Ithink, to remind the business men of thisColony of the danger of excessive optimism.We all remember the rubber boom, whenrubber was to be 10s. a lb. for many years tocome; and the 1919-1920 post-war boom,when everything was "roses all the way." Weare now having our own particular andextraordinary boom, which is quite withoutparallel in the history of the Colony, andalthough the more sanguine, as they always do,think on this occasion that the thing is goingon forever, I think the majority view thesituation with what I may call a healthypessimism. The Government does so. I amsure that it considers very sound the advicegiven to it by the Hon. Mr. Chow Shou-son―aman whose wide experience of affairs entitleshim, if anybody, to speak―but that we shouldwatch carefully each demand for freshexpenditure, so that when the rainy day comes―as come it must―we may be in a properposition of security.

THE BOOM IN LAND SALES

Take first this question of the staff of thePublic Works Department. In this connection Ihave come across some striking figures, inanother connection entirely, with regard to theeffect of the boom in land sales. In twentyyears, from 1901-1920 inclusive, our totalrevenue from land sales was five-and-a-halfmillion dollars; in the years 1921-1922 and thefirst three months of 1923 our revenue fromthe same source was $7,000,000. I think thatthe Senior Unofficial Member's advice was tofollow the example of a business man whoincreases his staff according to the demand. Imay compare ourselves, for instance, to amotor car manufacturer who had a steady out-

put of 300 cars a year, and then a boom cameand the demand increased to 3,000 cars a year(the proportion of our land sales must besomething like that: I have not worked out thefigures). I think that if that merchant increasedhis staff, his buildings, and his capitalaccordingly he would be a very foolish man.Possibly manufacturers who misjudged theextent and duration of the post-war boom willtell you the same thing.

Our extraordinary land sales have given riseto an extraordinary amount of work in thePublic Works Department and I was glad tohear the remarks in that connection by the hon.member representing the Justices of the Peace.The way in which every man in the departmenthas risen to the occasion is deserving of thehighest praise. We need only look round andsee the new development on every side. TheGovernment will pursue a policy of cautionbut at the time it realises that this developmentis going on and that the Colony generally isincreasing in every way, and it is makingprovision for considerable extra staff. I have anote to the effect that we are getting severalnew officers ― one electrical engineer incharge of the electrical department; threeassistant engineers―one for the Water Worksand two for the Shing Mun scheme; sixassistant land surveyors, two bailiffs in theSurvey Department, two assistant engineers,and two overseers in the ArchitecturalDepartment, one assistant engineer and twoofficers in the Building Ordinance Office, andone overseer and one stenographer in thegeneral department. I think that these additionsto the strength adequately meet the legitimatedemand.

It is the same case with the Police. I thinkthat the community has got into the habit ofcrying "Wolf" in this connection withunnecessary frequency.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER ― Hear,hear!

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Kowloonnerves were very badly shaken a few months agoby the murder, in very public circumstances, of aChinese constable and they have not beenreassured by the thrilling account of a walk takenby Mr. Bailey one night through the Peninsula.But what are the facts? His Excellency, at thel a s t m e e t i n g , g a v e f i g u r e s w h i c h


show an increase of 35 per cent. in the Forcesince the beginning of 1920. The station atKowloon Point, which the Kowloon Residents'Association have frequently spoken of, hashad its land force doubled in the same period,and the land force of Europeans at that stationhas been increased from 4 to 12. The SeniorUnofficial Member gave us some rather highfigures with regard to the increase in crime,but he is out of date.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―Not "high figures";official figures.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Officialfigures, I admit; they are perfectly correct, butout of date. If you want to know the presentstate of affairs you must take the presentsituation: I have the figures up-to-date. Theyare:―

Year 1922, Murders ........................ 351923 (first nine months),

" Murders ........................................ 21These are in many cases political murders

and have nothing to do with the general stateof crime in the Colony Armed robberies wereas follows:―

Year 1922, Armed robberies: withviolence .................................... 244

" 1923 (first nine months) ........ 118" 1922, Burglaries .................... 109" 1923 (first nine months) ........ 48" 1922, Larcenies ..................... 3,193" 1923 (first nine months) ........ 1,594

These figures are not very alarming. A pointwas made of the fact that the regular duties ofthe Police are interfered with by suchmeasures as opium and arms searching andtraffic control. The staff exclusively employedon traffic numbers 17 only―6 Europeans. Thepeople you see with sticks at corners areemployed in the double duty of traffic controland fixed post. It is found that in the daytime,when there are people about, a man is betterable to look after his own property and it ismore advantageous to have these fixed poststhan patrols. A man knows where to find thePolice and can run for help. It was very muchimpressed upon us by representatives of theChinese community that people should be ableto find the Police at definite points. As regardsopium and arms, apart from the detectivedepartment, whose particular duty it is, theWater Police, and regular searchers on

wharves, this matter hardly encroaches at allon the duties of the regular police.

The Senior Unofficial Member drew someunconvincing comparisons between theproportion of the value of goods lost and thecost of the Police. One can only comment thatthe loss of one big diamond or a gramme ofradium would play havoc with all his averages.I may remind the hon. member with regard tothe cost of the Police, which he has quoted as17 1

2 lakhs, for next year, that that is by nomeans the whole bill. We have in addition, inthese estimates, a very large sum forextensions at the Police Stations, marriedquarters, and buildings generally. There was apoint about the Police mentioned in Mr.Bailey's letter, as to Chinese Police patrollingsingly. The experiment has been made ofsending them out in couples and it was foundthat the patrolling pairs were never to be foundexcept in a tea house. That he did not find menin one walk through the town is hardly a fairpoint to bring up. These beats are square andthe men have to go through all sorts of sidestreets, in particular where bad characters maybe found, and in the main roads you may gosome distance, sometimes, without finding apoliceman. The only proper test is a series ofpatrols which, I understand, the DeputySuperintendent of Police is about to undertake.

REFUSE DISPOSAL: THE CLEANEST TOWN

IN THE WORLD

The next point was a recommendation thatrefuse carts should be provided with tightfitting lids. That matter has come up before.The objection to wooden lids is their weight.Very steen streets have to be negotiated andthe handling of the carts as they are is alreadya sufficiently difficult proposition. Having atarpaulin cover fixed tightly over the carts wastried, but it was found that the men took a longtime to fit these. The beats of the carts are soarranged that they end at the point nearest tothe discharging wharf and it is important torun them to the wharf as quickly as possible.As they move from house to house it is notpossible to close them up. A further suggestionwas that this refuse cleaning should not bedone in the afternoons. I gather from that thathon. members do not get up early enough to beaware that the main sweeping and cleaning isdone at 3.30 a.m. and all the refuse is on boardbefore 9 o'clock.


HON. MR. HOLYOAK ―Oh, no. Twelveo'clock mid-day in Des Vœux Road.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY ― I amspeak of the first sweeping. It is the secondsweeping which takes place later in the day.The reason is that the inhabitants―or some ofthem―have an unpleasant habit of throwingtheir refuse in the street if it is not removed.Even in the enlightened City of Westminsterthey only guarantee to remove refuse once inthree days― although they may remove itoftener in practice. Here we do our best toremove it twice a day, and thereby we haveearned the reputation of being one of, if notthe, cleanest town in the world. I think itwould be unwise to sacrifice that reputation onaccount of the temporary inconvenience,which I admit occurs, while the sweeping isgoing on.

It was asked that we should have anincinerator for the destruction of rubbish. Thatquestion has been gone into exhaustively onthree occasions, first in 1901, and again in1906, when reports were laid on the table inthis Council, and again in 1921. On eachoccasion we asked particulars of Singapore,Penang, Kuala Lumpur, and other towns andthe replies were most discouraging because ofthe enormous expense. The capital cost ofbuilding runs as high as six-and-half dollarsper ton of rubbish consumed annually, againstour cost of eighty cents for all our plant andmaterial. The rubbish is largely of a lightvegetable nature and it requires a third of itsweight in fuel to consume and leaves a third inslag to be got rid of. The destructor requirescomplete renewal once every ten years. Thequestion of the disposal of the slag is also amatter of great difficulty. At Home it is verymuch used for road repairs, but here we have amuch better and entirely accessible material ingranite. Therefore, this slag would have to becarted away. It could be used in reclamation,but it would have to be taken there. Thenuisance of these collecting stations on thePrava would not necessarily be done awaywith. The town is very narrow and thedestructor would have to be at one end or theother and all refuse would have to be takenalong the streets as now. An incinerator mustbe more or less a nuisance to people in theneighbourhood, and I think it would cause

much more trouble than the finding of anoccasional cabbage leaf on a bathing beachnow does.

SAIYINGPUN SCHOOL

As to Saiyingpun School, the Director ofPublic Works informs me that the foundationswill be finished shortly. The plans are readyand contracts about to be let but he cannothold out any hope of its completion before themiddle of 1925.

THE RAILWAY

Figures have been asked for as to the liabilityof the Chinese Section of the Railway fordamages. Damages in this connection arehardly to be assessed in terms of money. It istrue that under the working agreement we haveregular charges for late running, for demurrageof rolling stock, and so on, but these are hardlya p p l i c a b l e t o t h e v e r y e x c e p t i o n a lcircumstances of the present time. The questionof actual damage done to plant and rollingstock is being carefully watched. The bill isbeing kept and it will undoubtedly be presentedin due course. As to security, we collect at thisend of the line a considerable sum of money onbehalf of the Chinese Section, by reason of thefact that we take fares in Kowloon for theChinese two-thirds of the line, which is a longerstretch than the one-third of the line for whichthey take fares in Canton. Therefore, there isalways a balance in our favour, but it has notbeen the practice to hold this money againstclaims. The Railway is suffering misfortunesthrough no fault of its own, and I suggest that itis at least useless to kick a man when he isdown. Unless we help them by forbearance inevery way they must inevitably separatethemselves from us as, under the workingagreement, it is provided they have every rightto do. In time of war or rebellion either sectionhas the right, subject to due notice to the otherparty, to cut itself off entirely. I think hon.members will agree it is useless to addressarguments to people in the throes of civil war.With regard to the purchase of new rollingstock this is not to replace stock destroved, butit is necessary because the Chinese Sectionhave not got their quota. We have constantly tot u r n a w a y g o o d s t r a f f i c b e c a u s e


we cannot handle it for lack of rolling stock.We think also it is wise to keep up our stock asfar as we can in anticipation of better times. Itis suggested that we ought not to have added anumber of very subordinate posts ― abouttwenty-five―to the establishment. These arecertain gate-keepers required partly because ofthe longer hours the trains are running andpartly because of the increased use of theroads by the public; also boiler makers andmechanics necessary because we are runningour stock to exhaustion. We have deferredoverhauls and repairs unduly, as the stock is soconstantly in use. We have also employed oneor two more cleaners and I may mention thatwe have substituted women cleaners for menand they have proved considerably cheaperand much more efficient.

KOWLOON HOSPITAL

As to the Kowloon Hospital, the Director ofPublic Works informs me that the Servants'Quarters practically are completed and theMedical Officers' Quarters are well advanced.He hopes to have the building finished by themiddle of 1925. I sincerely hope that will bethe case―not entirely from a conviction as toits urgency, because the prospective patientsare not overtaxing the resources of otherinstitutions in the Colony, more especially thePeak Hospital.

A NEW TRAM PROJECT TO MAGAZINE GAP

Then we come to our hardy annual, theWanchai Gap tramway, which I hoped hadwithered under the discouragement cast uponit by Unofficial Members. Unofficial Members,perhaps, have forgotten that they and theirpredecessors turned this project down twice, in1920 and in 1921. In the first instance Mr.Pollock was away, and in the second hedissented I hope, as they have changed theirminds once. I can persuade them to do soagain. The Senior Unofficial Member hasmade a good point in the fact that the PeakTramway did create the demand at the Peak,and if he can show that the Wanchai Tramwaycan create and satisfy a demand at MountCameron, I am with him all the way. Withregard to the existence and extent of thedemand I prefer to say nothing, but leave thatto the discussion on the Housing CommissionReport. Granting the demand, the point arises

whether this Tramway will satisfy it. Thetramway has to feed the European reservationand I think that no European― and moreparticularly no European woman―wants toadd himself or herself to the crowd whichthrongs Wanchai market. Moreover, they donot wish to incur the considerable additionalexpense of a long ride of a mile or morethrough congested Chinese streets to theEuropean quarter. Nor, again, does a man, tiredout after a long day's work willingly face theride back. With regard to the point that I statedto one of the newspaper representatives thatlarge resumptions would be required, I did notrefer to sizes, but I did suggest resumptions.This line is designed to go down Stone NullahLane, 50 feet in width, including the nullah inthe middle, and it comes out at the junction ofthe lane with Queen's Road at Wanchai market.If the Government provides that tram and putsno station for the people to alight at and noconcourse area for waiting vehicles, I canimagine the outcry from the community as tothe idiocy of the Government in not forseeingthis essential necessity, and the advice whichwill be again showered upon us that really youmust get rid of your Colonial Secretary andput in a business man acting on businessmethods. Therefore, you must have expensiveresumptions.

We are in communication with the PeakTramway Company at the present momentwith a view to running a line from the bottomof Garden Road in Murray Barracks toMagazine Gap, opening up new sites all theway, as against the Wanchai Gap schemewhich will open up no new sites. For a shortdistance this tramway, just referred to, will beoperated by the rack and pinion method, andfor the rest of the way on smooth rails, with nooverhead construct ion. It wi ll make thejourney in ten minutes and can have as manytrams as are necessary: they will be able to goone after the other; the Peak Tramway meansof hauling not being required. I think if thattramway goes through it is a much bettersolution of the problem than the Wanchai GapTramway. It does not go to Wanchai Gap, butcan be easily extended there, and I thinkresidents will prefer the journey from WanchaiGap to Magazine Gap at the top, rather thanthe journey along Queen's Road at the bottom.


I suggest that the new scheme is a much betterinvestment for our money than the tramway toWanchai Gap.

MORE PIERS FOR HONGKONG

More landing piers on the Hongkong sideare advocated. It is expected that the newStatue Pier Wharf will be open to traffic inabout eight months, and the Government hasunder consideration the bringing together ofall the ferry piers―except the Star Ferry pier―and to provide a concourse area, the piers tobe arranged in such a way that they willradiate from it, like fingers from the palm ofthe hand, the intention being that peoplelanding at one pier can go to another without along ride through the streets. They suggestbuilding bigger, permanent piers on both sidesof the Harbour. The Hunghom Bay scheme isnow before the Chamber of Commerce and itmay interest members to know that within thelast few days we have made an agreement fora commencement of a vertical sea wall atNorth Point which will be able to berth shipsof 30 feet draught at any state of the tide andwhere it will be possible to sling the cargoacross a 35 foot road straight into godowns.This will form one of the most important stepsforward in the development of the Harbourthat has been seen for many years.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― Is that aGovernment enterprise?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―No, it isbeing worked in conjunction with privateenterprise. It is not a Government enterprise―the Government has no money in it.

QUARRY BAY SCHOOL

With regard to the Quarry Bay School, theplans are ready and the Director of Educationis discussing the question of a site with theDirector of Public Works. In the meantimearrangements are being made with Mr. Edkinsfor the loan of a room or rooms at Taikoo Club,and later on I hope to ask members of theFinance Committee to vote furniture for it.

THE INVESTMENT OF GOVERNMENT FUNDS

The Government concurs in the proposalthat it should publish periodically particularsof the investment of Government funds in thehands of the Crown Agents. I am taking thisopportunity to refer to the reference to the

funds advanced to the P. and O. BankingCorporation. The explanation given by theCrown Agents is that they get from one-half toone per cent. better terms than from the otherbanks in London.

PRICES OF FOOD AND OTHER NECESSARIES

The Senior Unofficial member askedwhether the Government would look into thematter of fixing the price of food and othernecessaries. I am afraid I can hold out no hopein that connection. We had an unfortunateexperience during the war. The thing wasuseless to us but rather beneficial to thecompradores because once the list came outthey immediately put up anything below to theprice the list notified, and anything above thelist price they ignored. It is purely a question Ithink, of supply and demand. Our supply isseriously curtailed owing to the disturbancesin the neighbouring province and our demandis immensely increased by the influx ofwealthy refugees and by the good wages nowbeing drawn by the working classes. Youcannot control prices unless you can controlthe supply at its source. You might make theDairy Farm put back milk from 15 to 12 centsa bottle, if you are prepared to face thesubsequent law suit, but you cannot make aCanton farmer sell you a 60 cent chicken forhalf a dollar. The only alternative is for theGovernment to buy in a dear and sell in acheap market, and after our experience in therice crisis, when we found it essential to do so,we cannot contemplate undertaking anythingof the kind again.

OMNIBUSES v. TRAMS

With regard to the hon. member'spreferences for omnibuses to trams, I must sayI am inclined to agree largely with what hesaid, but there are various opinions on thepoint, both for and against, and after very fullconsideration the matter has been put out fortender. The tenders are due shortly and thenwe shall see how the land lies. It is quitepossible that the discouragement given totrams in other parts of the world, according tonewspapers sent to us, may lead to nosatisfactory tenders being given and then weshall have to resort to omnibuses. In any casethe Government undertakes to consult theCouncil before it takes any decisive step in thematter.


WIRELESS STATION

The next speaker was the memberrepresenting the Chambers of Commerce. Hismain point was in connection with the highpower wireless station. He gives us the historyof the subject, but in its present phase it datesfrom a resolution which he proposed in thisCouncil in March 1919. The matter was thenreferred urgently to the Colonial Office, whohad appointed a committee to study the wholequestion, and in 1920 that committee reportedrecommending an Imperial wireless chain ofState-owned stations, one of which was to bein Hongkong. A commission of experts wasthen appointed to advise as to technical details.They sent us a questionaire and we gave themparticulars as to sites and so on, and they evengot so far as to inform us as to areas of twostations―one for transmitting and one forreceiving. Meanwhile developments in India,South Africa, and Australia led to amodification of Imperial policy and thequestion of a Hongkong station was postponed.In March last, in answer to a question asked inthe House of Commons, the Prime Ministersaid that recent development in the science ofwireless telegraphy, and changes in theconditions in the Dominions and Colonies, hadled to a modification of the views of HisMajesty's Government in connection with thisState-owned wireless chain, and they nolonger saw any reason why private enterpriseshould be debarred from participating inwireless telegraphy within the Empire. TheGovernment proposes to take steps to ascertainupon what terms private enterprise wouldwork and operate a station here. I may say thatin 1921 the Marconi Company approached usas to whether we would grant them permissionto undertake this work, and we referred themto the Colonial Office.

THE LIQUOR AND TOBACCO DUTIES

The second point was in connection with thereduction of liquor and tobacco duties, withwhich the Hon. Mr. Lowe associated himself. Ireally think that the hon. members do notknow when they are well off. They paypractically no taxes here at all―no income tax,and even when they pay on their liquors andon their tobacco they are happy in theassurance that they are paying considerablyless than they do in London. I am astonished at

the argument that an indirect tax is a bad one. Ithought it was generally accepted that one ofthe points of a good tax is that unless you wishto emphasise a tax to the people an indirect taxis best, especially one easy and cheap ofcollection, and that desideratum is exactlyfulfilled by this tax on liquor and tobacco. Itmay interest hon. members to learn that, inquite another connection, the directors of theNanyang Tobacco Company― they have noobjection to the publication of the figures―inform me that in the first nine months of thisyear they have paid nearly seven lakhs ofdollars in duty to the Government. No doubtyour argument would be that is all the morereason why the tax should be reduced. Takethe duty on the more expensive cigarettes,$1.50, and the cheapest 30 cents; they workout at something over three hundred to thepound, and that gives less than a 1

2 d. on thebetter quality and less than one-tenth of a centon the inferior quality. With the good wagespaid, the poorer classes apparently find the taxno deterrent as regards cigarette smoking.

HON. MR. HOLYOAK ― My argumentwas that you were charging a 50 to 55 per cent.tax on liquor, which is not reasonable at all.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY ― I amcoming to that point. It is considered advisablein view of the great uncertainty as to theOpium revenue to lay down a foundation ofsteady taxation bringing in a large sum ofmoney so that if the opium profits suddenlyfall away we should be in a position to viewthe situation with equanimity without anysudden dislocation of our finances.

THE HAIR-PIN BENDS AND TRAFFIC

CONTROL

The hon. member made some remarks inreference to Garden Road with which I am inentire concurrence. I am an owner driver and Iknow how dangerous that road is. It waslargely due to my instrumentality that the treeshave gone, and I am in touch with the Directorof Public Works on the question of wideningthe road now. As to the hair-pin bend, that hasbeen most carefully considered. The bend byGovernment House, opposite Kennedy Road,i s a p l a c e w h e r e a l l t h e w a t e r


mains and electric wires seem to congregateand it was decided that if more of the cornerwere cut away it would make the descent toosteep. A car went over there only a fortnightago. The same applies to the other corner. Ifyou cut it away it becomes steeper, and areckless driver goes straight over into IceHouse Street. Personally I do not agree withthe hon. member as to the necessity foremploying European police on traffic dutyexcept at centres where there is likely to be arush of chairs and ricksha coolies. Our motortraffic to us in this small island may seemimmense, but if you go to any other city in theworld you will find that it is merely nothing atall. The real danger is the slow-moving trucks,rickshas, and so on, but it is hoped that beforelong the fast-moving traffic will tend to drivethem off the street. If any driver of a carproceeds with an ordinary degree of cautionand sounds his horn, I do not think there is anydanger of any sort whatever. That is purely apersonal expression of opinion.

RENT ALLOWANCE FOR NON-EUROPEAN

STAFF

The senior unofficial member representingthe Chinese referred first of all to the questionof rent allowances for the non-European staffand asked that a beginning might be made forall officers of over ten years' standing. I do notthink the Government can contemplate goingquite as far as that at present. The subject isunder consideration, and the Treasurer isworking out certain figures in that connection.I do not think we can do more than extend thesystem which already applies to the seniorEuropean staff, namely of granting rentallowance to a man who has his family in theColony. A man living alone with his family inthe country, can get along quite cheaply and isnot hit so much. The question will besympathically considered.

REMOVAL OF THE UNIVERSITY

The question of the removal of theUniversity will receive careful attention. Atthe present time the Government has noknowledge as to what the Universityauthorities think on the subject. Thesuggestion to turn the hostels into Governmentquarters has, for me, a great attraction, and themain building could no doubt be used for

Queen's College, but what strikes me as anobvious objection is the fact that theUniversity is so closely allied as regards itsmedical department with the GovernmentCivil Hospital. The students, of course, havetheir lectures in the University and theirpractical work in the hospital close by. Soclose is the conection that it is deemednecessary to build a hostel right up against theGovernment Civil Hospital.

THE CONFUCIAN SCHOOLS

With regard to the Confucian schools this isa matter which has always had theGovernment's warm support and I find therehas been some little misunderstanding on whathas transpired. The Government in puttingforward the Bill for the employment ofchildren expressed the hope that therepresentatives of the Chinese would comeforward with proposals for the education of thevery poor which, if satisfactory, it wouldsupport. The Confucian schools in certainparts exactly met that want, but it is thepractice of the Government to equip a schooland if the school is conducted in a propermanner to give half the cost of running it,subject to a report from the Inspector ofChinese schools. There was amisunderstanding with regard to this when thelast vote of $10,000 was made, and this moneywas applied both for the opening of newschools and to defray the entire cost of runningthem, with the result that when it was spent theschools had to be closed. That is not theintention. The Government is prepared to grantmoney to equip new schools and, subject totheir satisfactory management, to give up tohalf the expenditure upon the cost of education.But you cannot expect the Confucian Societysimply to open the schools with this moneyand then leave the Government to pay thewhole cost. If the Senior Unofficial Memberrepresenting the Chinese will put himself intotouch with the Director of Education I think itwill be possible to bring definite proposalsbefore the Council.

KING'S PARK

Then comes the question of recreation forC h i ne se i n K i n g ' s P a r k . T h i s r e q u e s t


will receive consideration, but it must beremembered that the pioneer clubs in Kowloonhave manifestly a right to first choice. Theyare the Kowloon Cricket Club, the UnitedServices Recreation Club, both of which arebeing dispossesed owing to military landexchanges, the Club de Recreio, which hasbeen turned out of its premises on NathanRoad, and the Kowloon Football Club, whichhas only the temporary use of a piece ofrailway land. These old-established clubs arethe pioneers of sport in Kowloon. They havespent a great deal of money on their groundsand we have undertaken to put them back toKing's Park as at present. The Chinese arenewcomers in the field, and we welcome themin every possible manner, and we areproviding new playing grounds for them inKowloon.

PROPOSALS AS TO CEMETERIES

As to cemeteries the proposals of theGovernment are at present in a very tentativestate. They are practically that all burialsshould take place on Lamma Island with freeferries running from Yaumati and fromKennedy Town at stated intervals as required.There will, of course, have to be some smallcemeteries on the Island and mainland for usein typhoon weather. These proposals aresimply outlined and they will be put before therepresentatives of the Chinese community.

THE WATERWORKS PROJECT

There is one other point in connection withShing Mun which comes again into the generalquestion of loans which I will not touch on itat present except to say that work will becarried on piecemeal and no large sum will berequired. We have money enough to make abeginning and to carry on for the present.

REPLY TO HON. MR. LOWE

Now I come to the remarks made by theHon. Mr. Lowe. I think it is hardly fair tothrow a number of figures at my head withoutany warning and I confess I am quite unable todeal with them offhand. I have taken certainnotes. He referred to the reduction in dutiesand I have attempted to show that we are notovertaxed and that there is good reason tobuild up reserves and to ensure a steadyrevenue. In order to make his figures moreintelligible he gave a simile of a married manin Hongkong who makes some money. I mustconfess―it may be perhaps because I have not

a mathematical education― that the simileleaves me more confused than before. Hispoint is that a married man has a rising salaryor some unexpected good fortune and he goesback to his wife, and his wife naturally expectsto get some of that money in the shape ofclothes, or a holiday, or something of that kind.That man being a prudent man would partlyspend his money on that, and would partlyinvest it against his old age. If the Hon.Member advises the Government to copy themarried man's exmple; that is what it does do.Having got a surplus, part of which isunexpected, owing to profit in exchange, theGovernment proceeds to embellish the Colonyand puts by the balance against a rainy day.But the Hon. Member has been suggesting thatwe should avoid getting a surplus and he backshis argument by this simile. Does he thereforesuggest that his married man's proper course isto refuse an increase in salary, or should takesteps to avoid an unexpected profit, as forexample, by refusing to deal any longer inpiece goods because he is making too muchmoney out of them?

The Hon. Member then said we had nobalance sheet. I can only say that this seems tome absurd. Our accounts are not kept in theform of a Bank's accounts, naturally, becausewe put all our cards on the table. I am sure thatthere is no public company, bank or anythingelse that does the same. They do not tell youthe salary of the chief manager or the cashier,as we do. We put these details in the fullestform and as clearly as we possibly can beforethe members. If we hid all our workingexpenses and salaries we then could easilypresent to you a balance sheet which is exactlya copy of any company's balance sheet, but Iam sure it would not be satisfactory tomembers.

Then he came to the question, touched on bythree members, of loans. It is suggested by theHon. Mr. Lowe that we should pay off our 6 percent. loan. That question is under considerationb u t h e i s w r o n g , I t h i n k , i n s a y i n g Imisrepresented the position in my recentanswer to his question. Our Sinking Fund iswell above the 6 per cent margin and most ofthe money is invested at 6 per cent. or over. Iwas referring, in my answer to that question,simply to the state of the Sinking Fund.


With regard to the inscribed stock I can see noreason whatever ― again I am not amathematical man―why we should pay off acheap 3 1

2 per cent. loan in order to borrow at 5or 6 per cent. for our public works. Why notrecord that as money borrowed at 3 1

2 per cent.and continue the public works out of thebalance in our hands? We have these largefunds and it seems to me quite senseless to payoff a very big amount of money at a low rateof interest and, on the other hand, borrow a bigamount at a high rate interest. There are largecosts of loan flotations and our purchase ofany loan would force up the market so that weshould have to pay much more than the presentmarket rate for it.

The Hon. Member referred in passing toConstitutional Reform. I do not propose to bedrawn into argument on the subject. Hesuggested that the Official members frownedupon the association. I, for one certainly donot. I was not aware that there still existed anAssociation to be frowned upon.

His last remark was as to the Widows' andOrphans' Fund. Mrs. Hutchison has anordinary pension.―I cannot say what it is.With regard to Mr. Brayn, I may point out hewas formerly in Hongkong, but left the servicefor six or seven years and came back in 1918or 1919, and therefore his pension is naturallyaffected thereby. He was, I believe, in Nigeria,and he may have some other pension fromthere. I am not sure on that point, but at anyrate his service for pension here was short. Ithink, Sir, I have now dealt with all the pointsthat have been raised in the discussion.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― May I ask onequestion arising from what has been said, withregard to the Railway―whether any of ourcoaches have been withheld on the Chinesesection?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―Yes, Sir,they are being continually detained. As latelyas yesterday urgent messages had to be sentbecause we could not get them back and wewanted them on account of the ChineseFestival. They managed at last to send fourcoaches.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―How many are being

detained now?

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY―I cannotsay offhand.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―I think it is abouta dozen. The Railway authorities assure usthey are not being used for military purposes.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―Gentlemen, I haveto thank you for the kind manner in which youhave received the Colonial Budget and foryour criticisms, which―with possibly one ortwo exceptions―were certainly made in a veryhelpful spirit. Although I cannot entirely agreewith them, I appreciate the goodwill whichhon. members have shown in the matter to thefull. The Colonial Secretary has dealt withmost of the points raised, but I should like―ifI may―to add one or two remarks on certainparticular points. As to the Police Force, Ithink the Colonial Secretary has shown thatthe situation has improved materially and, ofcourse, it is only within the last few monthsthat we have got our full strength fromWeihaiwei, and we may hope for furtherimprovement. At the same time I am bound tosay that it is almost impossible to expect thePolice Force to deal satisfactorily with crimewhen the general public looks upon crime as aharmless amusement of their neighbour whichis no concern of theirs. If the general publicwould support the Police it might be possibleto do more than we do now. At present youconstantly find, when a robbery occurs, theChinese adopt the attitude of the priest and theLevite and leave the matter strictly alone.Then when you do get a criminal almost in theact you have the utmost difficulty in gettinganyone to come forward to give evidenceagainst him, and the number of people whointerfere either to persuade or threaten is largerthan, I think, hon. members realise. I wassomewhat startled by the figures with regard tothe proportion of recovered and stolenproperty, but it has to be remembered that it isunfortunately so extremely easy to get awaywith property here. Articles stolen inHongkong to-day will be the next day inMacao or Canton. Unless the theft of propertyis reported immediately the chances of findingit are negligible. I think therefore that,considering the disadvantages under whichthey are working, the police do extremelywell.


The Hon. Mr. Pollock went on to refer to thequestion of fixing the prices of food. Well, Ithink it is generally admitted that anyGovernment which has endeavoured to fix theprices of food within recent years has burnedits fingers rather badly, and I should be verysorry to expose the fingers of this Governmentto a similar fate. The Colonial Secretaryperfectly rightly says that the maximum in thismatter tends to become the minimum. Worsethan that, when you are fixing the maximumprice―unless you are controlling the supply―you have got to fix it at a price which willenable a man to get his stuff to the market at aprice which will pay him and this means thatyou cannot fix it at the price which pays theman who is most favourably situated.Therefore the maximum will have to be higherthan the minimum price at which sale hashitherto been possible, I had some slightexperience during the war in trying to keepsales down to the figure decided on by apaternal government, and I am bound to say itwas one of the most distinct failures of the war,and the Hon. Director of Public Works willprobably support me in that statement.

The senior Chinese member raised the pointabout the removal of the University. As theColonial Secretary says, there are veryconsiderable practical difficulties in the waybecause it is almost essential―in fact I mightsay entirely essential―that the medical schoolshould be close to the hospital, because thestudents get most of their practical training inthe wards of the hospital. Moreover we arebound by our undertaking given to theRockefeller Trust to provide them with anumber of beds in the hospital. The only waythat I can see of getting over it is to leave theMedical Faculty where it is and move theothers, a measure which would probably givesatisfaction to nobody. The matter is one to beconsidered by the University. There wasanother point to which I attach muchimportance and that is this: I believe thatChina presents a remarkable field for educatedwomen in the near future, and I consider thatthe Hongkong University is the source fromwhich the supply of educated women shouldbe very largely obtained in the first instance. Ifthat is so it is necessary to enlarge theUniversity by allowing students to live withtheir own relatives―a course for which I have

always argued. I entirely agree with thearrangement made in the first instance that itshould be a residential University, and I shouldbe very sorry to see it cease to be one, but Ithink it has now risen to a status in which it isnot necessary that it should be whollyresidential, and I think we are losing a certainnumber of students because of the cost ofhostel accommodation. There is no reason whywe should not allow young people to live withparents and guardians subject to satisfactoryassurances―especially lady students, but theidea of having lady students living with theirrelations, with the University on the south ofthe Island, does not seem practicable. On theother hand the alternative of women's hostelsis less practicable. I myself should be sorry tosee the University moved from its presentposition. The main objection, I understand, isthe distractions of the locality. As to that, it isnot beyond the bounds of possibility that thedistractions may be removed before thestudents. For other reasons there is somethingto be said from that point of view.

I should like to add something to what theColonial Secretary said as to the taxation ofdrink and tobacco. I was astonished, equallywith the Colonial Secretary, to hear thesuggestion of the Hon. Mr. Holyoak thatindirect taxation was bad.

HON. MR. HOLYOAK ― It is aninterference with the free trade of the port.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―But not a veryserious inconvenience. We must, in any case,have a staff to cope with the activities of thosewho try to smuggle in deleterious articles, andthat staff can equally well deal with thecollection of duties on drink and tobacco. So farfrom being a bad method of taxation it seemsthe fairest possible. If you do not want to paythe tax your remedy is obvious, and if you thinkyou are taxed too much, again your remedy isobvious―reduce your consumption. The hon.member said the taxes were abnormally high.Now, having a suspicion in my mind that thehon. member was going to raise the question Iput down a few figures. Here you pay for yourcigars a tax of $2.50, if you are a wealthyp e r s o n , a n d $ 1 . 5 0 i f y o u a r e n o t . I n


England you pay 15s. 7d. without regard to thequality. On cigarettes you pay here accordingto your taste $1 down to 30 cents: in Englandyou pay 12s. 7d. On tobacco 11s. 10 1

2 d. forCavendish, 10s. 4 1

2 d., for other kinds and forsnuff 11s. 10 1

2 d. Here you pay anythingbetween 30 cents and $1.50. I have not tried towork out the figures for wine because thesystems are so different. I have not yet foundanybody who could compare them accurately.The hon. member reminded us that Sir ClaudSevern promised to consider a reduction intaxation on light wines. We considered it andwe came to the conclusion based on sufficientinformation that they were not too high andthe taxation appears to be having nodeleterious effect. The most interestingcomparison is that in the case of spirits which Isuppose is of larger importance in this country.We pay on spirits $6 a gallon, and on liqueurs$10 a gallon. They charge on spirits inEngland is £3 15s. 4d. and on liqueurs £5 10s.5d. I think in view of these figures it is a littledifficult to argue that our duties areabnormally high and I question whether, ifthey were reduced, the prices would go down.I did not say it was desirable they should. Therates seem exceedingly reasonable for anyperson who contents himself with a moderateamount of alcoholic refreshment, but theimportant point, to my mind, is this ― Iapologise for referring once more to the opiumrevenue and my remarks are not intended tocome under the category which an hon.member descrbed as "hypo-critical gush," but Istill believe that the revenue from opium willcease within a measurable period. I confessthat I now think that the period may be longerthan some of us hoped it would, a year or twoago but at least it will not be a permanentsource of revenue. I suggest to the hon.member that it must end within ten years at themost.

A source of revenue which is certain to dryup soon is not a proper one on which to relyfor your ordinary expenditure. The properthing to do it is to take advantage while it isthere and put as much as possible into capitalvalue in Public Works Extraordinary, and thegeneral improvement of the Colony,meanwhile piling up as rapidly and carefullyas possible permanent sources of revenue suchas we are endeavouring to obtain from the

duties on spirits and tobacco. I submit this isnot only sound finance but sound sense. TheHon. Mr. Lowe, in a very worthy desire tostimulate the amusement of what he regards ashis weekly half-holiday, gave his views onfinance which he misled the ColonialSecretary into taking seriously. Of course,most of them were meant for jokes. The onepoint he really meant seriously was thequestion of investment of funds locally or athome. I quite agree that we should endeavourto increase the amount of our bank balance―the money we hold here on deposit account inthe bank. I should not be at all reluctant to seea certain amount expended on loans onmortgage ― as a matter of fact we haveconsiderable sums of money outstanding onmortgage in Humphreys' flats and variousother buildings. I must confess that, highlythough I estimate the ability of the ColonialTreasurer, especially when approved by hon.members. I doubt whether it is wise for us todictate to the Crown Agents in this matter as tohow they should invest the money. We send itto them to invest and they are in close touchwith the market, whereas we are ten thousandmiles away. Hon. members possibly do notrealise that the Crown Agents have beenconcerned in raising enormous loans for theEmpire generally for many years. Much as Ivalue the financial opinion of the ColonialTrasurer and myself, on the whole I think weare safer in the hands of the Crown Agents inthe matter.

As to the repayment of loans, that, I think,was the hon. member's little joke. You cannotseriously suggest that we should pay off acheap loan with a certainty of having tocontract a dear one in two or three years. Thatbrings up again the question of the Shing MunValley scheme, in connection with which aloan was mentioned. Of course, if we have topay down $17,000,000 we should have to haverecourse to a loan. It would be absurd to put onadditional taxation to cover such a largewaterworks scheme, but I think thecomparatively small amount required this year,next year and the year after, can be providedfrom balances without difficulty, and while wehave balances on which we are drawing fourper cent. per annum it would, I think you willagree, be unwise to raise a loan which wecould hardly get at less than six per cent. Ithank you for your kindly criticisms and forlistening to me so patiently.


The motion that the Bill be read a secondtime was then agreed to.

Supply Bill in Committee

The Council went into Committee toconsider the Bill.

In reference to the vote for "Police,"

HON. MR. POLLOCK said―I am still notsatisfied as to the Police Force although I havecarefully listened to the arguments thisafternoon. I do feel, as I said, that thepreservation of peace and good order is one ofour principal assets vis-a-vis China. There is agreat deal of crime, which is indicated by thefigures for 1922, and I cannot help thinkingthat a great deal might be done in the detectionof crime if we have a bigger police force and ifthe Detective force were strengthened. Withreference to the question of Kowloon, myChinese colleagues will bear me out that theChinese, owing to inadequate police protectionthere, are reluctant to go out to the northernpart of the Peninsula. I have had quoted to mefrequently that there is amongst the Chinese afeeling of insecurity in Yaumati and thatneighbourhood.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―Unquestionablythere has been a great deal of crime thererecently, but it seems to be decreasing.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY wasunderstood to say conditions had greatlyimproved.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―The position isvery largely due to the absolute refusal of theChinese community to co-operate with thepolice. Nobody will ever give a criminal away.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― Criminals won'tgive themselves away. The ordinary person, ifhe is faced with a loaded revolver, cannot beexpected to display any very great courage.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―The difficulty is tosuggest any practicable methods. You cannotpatrol every street continuously. The beatsalready are not large. The criminal in China, asin London, waits till the policeman has justpassed and then commits his burglary.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―I think there is someobjection to policemen going on patrol singly.That question has been raised in many policeforces. I think the Colonial Treasurer will bear

me out that you are more likely to get goodwork from patrols of two.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―I think that onepoliceman will patrol his beat from sheerboredom whereas two will probably gamble―I am not referring to our Police Forcespecially.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―I believe as a factthat on the Hongkong side the police in

THE COLONIAL TREASURER―They arelearners, being taught by the man on the beat.That is the only occasion when they go bycouples.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―Two men togetherhave a chance of fighting: one is more likely tobe "done in" than two.

THE COLONIAL TREASURER ― Twotogether both may be knocked on the head atthe same time. You would have to keep themsome yards apart, one twenty yards ahead ofthe other.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―Why not do that? Itseems a very sensible thing to do.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―Having arrangedfor one patrol to be followed shortly byanother man, you will have to have a third manto see they are both there.

After a pause H.E. THE GOVERNOR said―The substance of the complaint may beprobably a lack of inspection, and that is amatter on which the C.S.P. might be asked toadvise more clearly. With regard to thedetection of crime that is a special art,proficiency in which is born and not made, andI am not sure that we have any of the bornones among us.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― And a certainamount of training.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR ― The detectivedepartment has distinctly improved in the lastyear.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― I know it is adifficult subject, but I still feel we are notsufficiently policed, and that the PoliceDepartment and the Detective branch shouldbe strengthened.


H.E. THE GOVERNOR―Well, that does notinvolve a reduction of the vote. If there is anydesire to increase it, it can be gone intoseparately, I think.

HON. MR. POLLOCK ― My unofficialcolleague Mr. Parr, suggested in his Budgetspeech last year that the European force shouldbe increased.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―He did not suggestthat taxation should be increased, but anincrease of the European force is an extremelycostly matter. We are paying a constablepracticably as much as a Captain in theRegular Army.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―It is important fromthe point of view of protection.

The Police vote was then passed.

PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT STAFF

On the Public Works Department Vote theHON. MR. POLLOCK raised again the questionof the need for increasing the staff of theBuildings Ordinance Office.

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS saidthe question had been fully considered. It wasinadvisable to increase the staff by more thanthe two new architects, who had already beenprovided for. Two men were all they couldtrain at one time. It took some considerabletime before an architect arriving in the Colonyfor the first time was of much use.

HON. MR. POLLOCK said it had beensuggested in the Housing Committee reportthat possibly some temporary assistance mightbe obtained from the engineer and survey staffof the naval and military forces.

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS―We have considered that.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―It would be an easyway of getting over a temporary difficulty.

The DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS―There are two non-commissioned officerstemporarily coming to us.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―For surveying, ofcourse.

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS―Yes.

HON. MR. POLLOCK―I mean an additionalman for the Building Ordinance Officer.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR said the PublicWorks Department might be able to get menfor survey work, but this, he thought, couldquite well be done by Chinese.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR made a remark tothe effect that the more men they got the moreaccommodation they would require.

Replying to the Hon. Mr. POLLOCK, theDIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS said thatadditional accommodation was being providedfor the staff.

HON. MR. POLLOCK― I don't think weought to limit the staff by the accommodation.It seems to me we want more staff andaccommodation.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―If you have morestaff you want more accommodation and inorder to build that accommodation you have tohave more staff. That is the way it waspresented to me by MPr.erkins recently I thinkit is hardly desirable to flood the office withtoo many new men at once.moment.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR asked the Directorof Public Works whether he was satisfied withhis staff at the present

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS―For the present, until these new men have gotinto their work. Then I may ask for more.

The vote was then approved.

THE RAILWAY

On the Railway vote,

HON. MR. POLLOCK made an inquiry as tothe security in connection with the Kowloon-Canton Railway.

H.E. THE GOVERNOR replied tha whilst aconsiderable sum of money was collected onbehalf of the Chinese section they had notc l a i m e d a n y o f i t . I t w a s


very easy to destroy a railway but it was notvery easy to build it up again. Though theywere losing money for a time it would paythem better to keep the Canton section alive aslong as possible. It might be that that the linewould shut down of its own accord.

The vote was then approved.

The Bill having passed through Committee,the Council on resuming passed the thirdreading of the Bill.

Adjournment

H.E. THE GOVERNOR―The Council willadjourn sine die.

The Military Lands

Rising again after consultation with theColonial Secretary, HIS EXCELLENCY said―Before we adjourn I should like be say thatSir John Oakley hopes to complete his reportshortly and has asked permission of the WarOffice to publish it here before he leaves. Inthe event of that permission being given I mayhave to ask you to attend a meeting before theend of the month in order that we may have atleast a preliminary discussion. The Councilwill adjourn sine die.

——FINANCE COMMITTEE

——A meeting of the Finance Committee was

afterwards held, the COLONIAL SECRETARYpresiding.

School Furniture

The Governor recommended the Council tovote a sum of $10,000 on account of PublicWorks, Extraordinary, Hongkong,Miscellaneous, Additional School Furniture.

THE CHAIRMAN―This is in respect oftemporary accommodation at Quarry Bay, andat Victoria School, which is being moved, andvarious other small items, as well as for theKowloon British School.

Approved.

Fuel for the Prison

The Governor recommended the Council tovote a sum of $3,200 in aid of the vote PrisonDepartment, Other Charges, Fuel.

THE CHAIRMAN ― The vote is one of$6,500. This is in respect of firewood. I haveasked the Superintendent of the Botanical andForestry Department to report as to theadvisability of supplying firewood.

Approved.

I. and E. Department Vote

The Governor recommended the Council tovote a sum of $150 in aid of the Imports andExports Department, Other Charges, Officecleaning materials.

THE CHAIRMAN―The vote is $250.

Approved.

———————

Documents

18TH OCTOBER, time and passed into law. New Territories Regulation Amendment Ordinance THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of the Bill intituled, An Ordinance to amend further