Working Group 3.6.6 Page 1 of 7Rev Date 12-20-2011

IEEE PES SPDC Working Group 3.6.6 (Low-Voltage Surge Protective Devices for the Load Side of the Service Equipment)Meeting Date: October 27, 2011 - Time: 1:30 to 5:30 pmLocation: Marriott Suites on Sand Key, Clearwater Beach, Florida

Attendance: Members: 11 of 20Interested Parties: 12Guests: 2

Member Status Name Affiliation Present Not PresentMember Brown, Ken Leviton XMember Bush, William Independent XMember (corresponding) Cole, Bryan Corning XMember DeGregoria, Joseph Underwriters Laboratories Inc. XMember Dorr, Doug EPRI XMember Farquhar, Lou Advanced Protection Technologies XVice Chair/Secretary Haa, Andi Quality Plus XMember Hill, Ray NEETRAC XChair Hotchkiss, Ron Surge Suppression Incorporated XMember (corresponding) Jensen, Chuck Duke Energy XMember Koepfinger, Joe Independent XMember Moellmann, James EFI Electronics/Schneider XMember Mossop, Carey Schneider Electric XMember Odenberg, Richard Transtector/Smith XMember Phipps, Tom Thor Systems, Inc. XMember Ramirez, Joe DITEK Corp. XMember Rebeck, Alan Protection Technology Group/Smith XMember Surtees, Tony ISKRA Protection USA XMember Syverson, Rick Erico XMember Wingate, Mark Maxivolt X

Interested Party Basciano, Frank Dehn XInterested Party Buchanan, Dan Emerson XInterested Party Ellis, Daniel Eaton XInterested Party Giancola, William Cooper Industries XInterested Party Levitt, Corey Thomas & Betts XInterested Party Li, William Littelfuse XInterested Party McClellan, David Phoenix Contact XInterested Party O’Conner, Rob EPCOS XInterested Party Saa, Paul APT XInterested Party Tiesi, Jim Emerson XInterested Party Travis, Bill Littelfuse XInterested Party* Wakeham, Matt Smith’s Protection Technology X

Guest Spiewak, Erin IEEE-SA XGuest Vogel, Sue IEEE-SA X

*Interested party requesting membership

Minutes:

1. Chair opened meeting at 1:35 pm

a. After introductions, The Chair conducted a membership roll call. With only 9 of 20 members present at the time of quorum assessment, it was determined that a quorum was NOT present for the meeting. The attendance sheet was circulated.

b. Action for Chair to Submit Matt Wakeham for WG membership to 3.6

Approved

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2. The IEEE Patent Slides were reviewed and circulated. Opportunity was given for any patent issues to be raised. No patent issues were reported.

3. The Agenda was displayed and reviewed. The agenda was unanimously approved.

4. Approval of May 2011 Minutes – A Quorum was not present – therefore minutes were reviewed without comment or correction. Approval of the minutes will be done at next meeting.

5. PAR Review: PAR Status for PC62.62 (Dec 31, 2011), PC62.62a (Dec 31, 2014) and PC62.72 (Dec 31, 2013)

a. Discussion of Scope change to simplify the scope of C62.72 to make it more in line with other standards scopes –

i. Discussion held regarding using C62.62 scope as the basis for change with a goal of keeping it as close to .62 as possible. Additional discussion held regarding the usefulness of the Scope.

ii. A taskforce was created to review the scope: Richard Odenberg, Carey Mossop, Mark Wingate (Chair), Andi Haa.

The following file was the basis for discussion:

The revised scope and par was provided by Carey Mossop for review by the working group. Those present agreed with the final wording as discussed.

Action: Ron to circulate revision to working group for a vote (embedded above).

6. TOV Test Taskforce (C62.62a): Ken Brown, (Taskforce Chair), Martin Guy, Paul Saa, Lou Farquhar, Doug Dorr, Tony Surtees and Bill Travis.

The TOV related comments from the original IEEE-SA ballot are (line numbers referenced to PC62-62-D3.pdf) shown below:

Commenter Type Page Clause Line Comment Suggested ResolutionAshton, Robert

Editorial 2017 This sentence does not make sense the way it is written. I suggest the following rewrite:

Unlike the induced failure mode test, this withstand test is limited to applying TOV overstresses such as those that might be encountered in the field in order to verify values declared by the manufacturer (rated).

Ashton, Robert

Editorial 2116 "measure" should be "measured"

Change "measure" to "measured".

Wilson, James

Technical 56 A.13.5 2131 In Table A.13.1, on the right four columns in the bottom two rows, are these items number minus number?

If so, consider using the calculated number. If not, if they are ranges consider putting a blank space before and after the minus sign. Also consider putting an explanation for these items by the table.

Funke, James

Technical 2131 Not clear if the TOV is based on nominal voltage or MCOV

Correct identify if this test is based on nominal voltage or MCOV

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(which should be 115% of nominal voltage).

Ken reported that after the taskforce met and reviewed the comments and test, it determined that the TOV test should not be included in the standard at this time. The taskforce felt that sufficient testing is required for SPDs that help to define its TOV withstand capability – namely the overvoltage tests from UL 1449 and the Nominal Discharge Current test where the MCOV is declared and verified.

The Chair provided information from Richard Odenberg which indicated that his preference would be to have the TOV test included in the document (annex).

Ken noted that focus on the MCOV as a qualifying factor for the selection of SPDs would be helpful – this will be looked at for C62.72.

ACTION: Ken to further expand the discussion for the taskforce position for circulation to the group. Those interested should provide feedback to Ken by February 1, 2012. Ken will forward feedback to the chair which will then be circulated to the working group.

A show of hands indicated that 12 attendees agreed with the TF recommendation to not pursue the TOV addendum.

It was noted by the Chair that a number of the working group members that are in favor of including the TOV test in C62.62a where not present at the meeting. These members are encouraged to provide substantiation to the TOV taskforce and working group regarding why a TOV withstand test should be included and propose how such a test should be performed.

7. C62.72 Revision Update: A review of the tasks related to the new revision of C62.72 was conducted with notes as shown below.

a. Guidance for protection against or mitigation of internally generated transients – (Volunteer – William Bush, James Moellmann)

i. The material provided to WG 3.6.13 is included below.

No further work done on this submittal. Alan commented that the reference to lightning should be deleted because lightning is not an internally generated transient.

ACTION: Preliminary Taskforce response and Alan’s responses provided. The Chair will circulate this for a 30 day review (response to the Chair due on December 2.) The Chair will then issue responses to the Taskforce.

b. Ground Currents when N-G mode shorted (shares neutral current) Volunteers: Doug Dorr (chair), Alan Rebeck, Bryan Cole, Mark Wingate, William BushAlan reported that there have been a number of teleconferences and tests performed. By next meeting, a full report and update will be provided.

ACTION: Preliminary Taskforce response provided. The Chair will circulate this for a 30 day review (response to the Chair due on December 2.) The Chair will then issue responses to the Taskforce. Document identified as SPD faulted protection mode (N-

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G) relationship to load return current (neutral current) flowing on unintentional grounding/bonding paths.

c. Rework of 16.1.2 – High “Energy” Surges (Richard Odenberg)

No report.

ACTION: Chair to contact Richard regarding a submittal for the document.

d. Rework 16.9 (Surge-protective devices within end-use equipment) to include specific recommendations (Volunteers – Carey Mossop, James Moellmann, Dour Dorr, Lou Farquhar, Paul Saa).

Carey provided a report on this topic. The group reviewed the comments provided by Mark Wingate. It was noted that others had provided feedback as well. It was determined that Corey Levitt, Bryan Cole, Matt Wakeham and Andi Haa will assist the Taskforce in review and rework of the taskforce proposal.

ACTION: Carey Mossop will schedule a teleconference to review feedback further the discussion.

The working group determined that this topic does not include the application of components within end-use equipment.

e. Rework 16.10 (Coordination methodologies) – (Volunteers – Doug Dorr, Jim Tiesi, Matt Wakeham).

Doug reported that nothing done to date.

Action: Doug will review the assignment with Matt and Jim to move forward.

f. Rework/removal of joule/energy ratings (Volunteers – Mark Wingate (Taskforce Chair), William Bush).

The Chair reviewed the email suggested by Lou Farquhar. The working group determined that the wording similar to the following should be used: “Joule ratings should not be used as a basis of SPD evaluation. There is no standardized methodology for determining Joule ratings in SPDs. Without standardization, there are multiple evaluation formats leading to incomparable data.” Lou will continue to work on this topic.

Action: The working group provided feedback to the taskforce for further consideration.

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g. Rework Clause 17 (Summary) to include specific recommendations. Placeholder for later.

h. Guidance on the disposal of SPDs – environmental impact / hazards including RoHS (Volunteers – Dirk Malencia (TF Chair), Andi Haa, Tony Surtees, Ken Brown) – New TF Chair needed.

It was determined that the subject of disposal was out of scope for this document. The TF was disbanded.

i. How to determine the Short-Circuit Current at any point in the system (Volunteers –Chuck Jensen (Taskforce Chair), Tony Surtees, Bryan Cole)

The input from the taskforce was discussed. The Chair mentioned that feedback was received from Joe Koepfinger on this topic.

Action: The Chair will send Joe’s comments to the Task Force for consideration. (Embedded below)

j. Glossary review – Update terms, need more, remove some – (Volunteers – Andi Haa (Taskforce Chair), Bryce McIntyre, Richard Odenberg). Richard Odenberg provided information regarding 61643-11.

Further work will be done when the document is pulled together.

k. Implementation of Type X SPD terminology and explanation of use – (Volunteers – Andi Haa). Andi to include information that we use for C62.62-2010 and adjust as needed.

This will be completed when document is pulled together.

l. Installation in hazardous locations – deferred to next meeting –Joe Degregoria (Chair), Ken Brown, and Matt Wakeham volunteered to work on this.

i. It was noted that most of the information for this subject will come from the NEC.

ii. Joe D. provided document for review. The concept of having a general statement in the document regarding a recommendation to check with local jurisdictions.

iii. Joe D. to provide a general statement for review.

Original file:

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Updated file (post meeting – for circulation only):

The working group reviewed the submittals and determined that Joe’s second submittal will be included in the draft document.

m. TOV considerations – Sources, origins, guidance – (Volunteers - Ken Brown).

Lou Farquhar, James Moellmann, and Corey Leavitt volunteered to join this taskforce as well.

Action: Ken Brown to review the status of material for C62.72 and schedule teleconference.

n. Rework 16 to be a list followed by an explanation of the list with recommendations – expand to include ratings derived/reported in C62.62 – why these are needed and provide recommendations (Volunteers - Lou Farquhar (TF Leader), Tom Phipps)

Lou reported updated work on this topic. There was discussion regarding quantifying energy in terms of current only. On hold until further notice.

o. What needs protecting and why? (one needs to protect [fill in the blank] equipment and here is why and how) – UPS, motors, drives, electronics, etc. – Reference 3.6.4. Taskforce 1. (Rick Syverson (Chair), Tom Colcombe , Ron Hotchkiss, Don Grove) Fayaz Khatri and Bryan Cole volunteered to work with the group.

The chair reported that Rick Syverson has asked to step down as the chair of this taskforce. Dan Ellis volunteered to serve as chair of this taskforce.

The comments received were reviewed. After much discussion, the working group determined that detailed application notes and specific SPD recommendations and installation locations would be more appropriate topics for Transactions or conference papers or other formats. This information will not be included in the standard.

p. Additional suggestions – (Review Annexes)

8. Paper Taskforce Reports:

a. William Bush – Grounding and Bonding: Taskforce Members: William Bush (leader), Alan Rebeck, Joe Ramirez, Bryan Cole, Chuck Jensen, Mark Wingate, and Fayaz Khatri, Doug Dorr. William Bush provided a report as to the status of this project. The contribution is to be circulated for a 30 day review by the WG.

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ACTION: The Chair is to circulate the taskforce contribution to the working group and ask for comments on the taskforce’s preliminary submittal within 30 days (by December 2 nd ). Comments to be sent to the Chair.

b. Ron Hotchkiss – MCOV of MOV Coordination – No additional update at this time. At this point, Ron Hotchkiss needs to run the test.

No update at this time.

9. Old Business: None reported.

10. New Business: C62.48 discussion.

Action: Consider having C62.48 and/or IEEE Std. 1159 as normative references for C62.72. The working group is to review these standards and consider how they may be used to better C62.72.

11. Next Meeting: Week of May 21-25, 2012 – Branson, MO

12. Meeting Adjourned at 17:30.

Important Links:

http://spd.oc.ieee.org/files/folder-20/folder-43/folder-133/folder-353 (Word Version of C62.72-2007)

http://spd.oc.ieee.org/overview (IEEE Communities Forum - IEEE PES SPDC)

http://spd.oc.ieee.org/files/folder-20/folder-43 (WG 3.6.6 Files)

http://spd.oc.ieee.org/discussions/folder-15/folder-51 (WG 3.6.6 Discussions)

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