Band Mixing (Tool, Nin Etc) vs EDM Mixing

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05-15-2012, 05:22 AM

henryspencerSoundscaper

Posts: 361MC Status: 2982563Thanks: 97Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts

band mixing (Tool, nin etc) vs EDM mixing

As and exercise for the past few days I have been analyzing tmixes of both bands that I live and electronic artists I listen to

One album I have always loved is Tools Aenima and oneobvious difference I noticed is that there seems to be a muchbetter sense of where the instruments are placed in that I canclearly picture in my mind that the vocals and high percussionwould be right up close, with the guitars off of centre and a bitback, with the bass back and centre with the drums.At the same time though, each individual instrument does notsound very wide and has literally no artificial reverb. All

instruments in this album sound organic, like real eventsoccurring in real space and time. I can get a similar effect in mymixes when I actually narrow e lements in my mix (synths,samples etc) with very little hall reverb but a bit of room reverI love this sound actually and it seems like I have so much mospace.Nin's downward spiral is very similar even though it uses a tonof samples and electronic stuff. *Both these albums are fromthe mid 90's and do not possess the complete squashing of newer rock stuff or even those artists newer a lbums.

When I compare this with EDM stuff like Mr Oizio, Sebastian,Flying lotus etc, the EDM sounds much more wide for sure! Evesometimes widening a bit of the low end which gives it that jefeeling with good headphones you may have noticed and itsobviously more compressed and louder, with the sacrifice to th

dynamic range. As far as I can tell, in the two band albums Imentioned, nothing has been widened to this sort of artificialdegree accept maybe for a few ambient sounds which consistmisty high frequencies (the outdoor ambience in tools pushit fexample)

My main question is; in your belief is it use ful or poss iblydetrimental for me to take influence w ith regards to mixing frothose tool and NIN albums given that my goal is to produceinstrumental IDM?Could going for the more organic, real space feel result in mymusic being laughably quiet (and therefore be interpreted asbad) when played next to one o f the modern EDM artists Imentioned with all their plastic sounding squashed, wide gloryI know theres some tool and reznor fans out there, however aopinions are welcome .

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Thanks to henryspencer ghyt wembpang (05-19-2012)

05-15-2012, 08:22 AM

ghyt wembpang

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Age: 21Posts: 9,790MC Status: 471587351Thanks: 782Thanked 760 Times in 625Posts

Re: band mixing (Tool, nin etc) vs EDM mixing

well one thing I can say is that Tool does a huge amount of multitracking on most parts of their songs.

If I recall, the drums get the least and are finished the fastestbelieve Danny does the drums for a record in 2-4 weeks. Theguitars get the most, Adam sometimes takes up to 3 months tfinish experimenting, layering tones together and getting a finunified tone that he's happy with.

I'm pretty sure they always record everything to tape beforeany further processing. This surely has an effect on their soun

you might want to look into David Bottrill a bit, he producedlateralus and aenima. could give some insight to his processesetc.

------------------

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Originally Posted by Stercogburn

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05-15-2012, 09:21 AM

gbsr Re: band mixing (Tool, nin etc) vs EDM mixing

i have to say that the dynamics have a LOT to do with howclean you sound.there's a reason mid90's mixes sounds so damned clean andunintrusive, just take a listen to virtually any mainstream albuthat weren't techno (in fact, even the techno type shit has clemixes heh) and compare it to a similar one today. you have torealise that when apply all that sortof overcompression thattodays ME's likes to do on a regulat basis you are boostingthings that shouldn't be boosted while you are limiting thingsthat shouldn't be limited, resulting in a very odd spatial imagin

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gothenburg, sweden.

Posts: 1,975

MC Status: 33133703Thanks: 62Thanked 185 Times in 154Posts

in general. overcompression in general can make things soundwierd, and f said wierd has some stereo processing going onyou'll be sure that this stereo processing is going to sound evwierder; it was designed to s it in the back subtly, not inyourfaup front assaulting your ears.

seriously, just try it. take a good week or so and listen andunderstand the mixes of most mid90's music, then compare itwith todays music of the same genre. it will make you cry,surely.

------------------milehighscientist:

|blog|

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05-15-2012, 09:23 AM

ghyt wembpang

ARE YOU LEMON?DOES YOUR HEADCOME TO A NUB?



Quote:

Originally Posted by gbsr

i have to say that the dynamics have a LOT to do with how clean you sound.there's a reason mid90's mixes sounds so damned cleanand unintrus ive, just take a listen to virtually any

mainstream album that weren't techno (in fact, even thetechno type shit has clean mixes heh) and compare it to asimilar one today. you have to realise that when apply all that sortof overcompression that todays ME's likes to doon a regulat basis you are boosting things that shouldn't be boosted while you are limiting things that shouldn't belimited, resulting in a very odd spatial imagine in general.overcompression in general can make things sound wierd,and f said wierd has some stereo processing going on you'll be sure that this stereo processing is going to sound evenwierder; it was designed to sit in the back subtly, not inyourface up front assaulting your ears.

seriously, just try it. take a good week or so and listen and understand the mixes of most mid90's music, thencompare it with todays music of the same genre. it will

make you cry, surely.

Casualties of the loudness wars.

------------------

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05-15-2012, 10:45 AM

BlingleyDeep Underground



Quote:


And if said wierd has some stereo processing going onyou'll be sure that this stereo processing is going to sound even wierder; it was designed to sit in the back subtly, not inyourface up front assaulting your ears.

Actually, if you overcompress stuff, the mix tends to close up. Athe dynamic range of either left or mid channel decreases, thepotential difference between left and right channels alsodecreases.

Granted, if you're actually hardpanning stuff all the time, itdoesn't matter.

------------------

05-15-2012, 02:37 PM

gbsr

gothenburg, sweden.

Posts: 1,975MC Status: 33133703Thanks: 62Thanked 185 Times in 154Posts


Quote:

Originally Posted by Blingley

Actually, if you overcompress stuff, the mix tends to closeup. As the dynamic range of either left or mid channel decreases, the potential difference between left and right channels also decreases.

Granted, if you're actually hardpanning stuff all the time, it doesn't matter.

not if you boost the shit that's supposed to be sitting subtly inthe mix.try it yourself by overcompressing the sidebands and see whait does to your sound.

i'll give you a clue: H O R R O R.


|blog|buy my album why don't ya? pay what you want..|deviantart|




















05-15-2012, 02:41 PM

BlingleyDeep Underground



Quote:


not if you boost the shit that's supposed to be sittingsubtly in the mix.try it yourself by overcompressing the sidebands and seewhat it does to your sound.

i'll give you a clue: H O R R O R.

Oh, yeah, if you compress them individually.. Yeah, I can seethat.

Compressing buses you're sending them to ( Assuming there'sother stuff going there, too.) shouldn't be too bad, though.

------------------

05-15-2012, 02:44 PM

gbsr

gothenburg, sweden.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Blingley

Oh, yeah, if you compress them individually.. Yeah, I cansee that.

Compressing buses you're sending them to (Assumingthere's other stuff going there, too.) shouldn't be too bad,though.

i guess it depends on how hard you push it


|blog|buy my album why don't ya? pay what you want..

|deviantart|

05-15-2012, 04:25 PM




Thanks for the input guys. So I guess the big questionbecomes; would emulate the clean 90's mixing style (which Ihave a lso noticed with electronic stuff from that time) be a goothing or bad for a new artist in this day and age? Can someonsurvive by being a non loudness war participant....??



















05-15-2012, 09:36 PM #

mimicryGhostly



Think of the medium that's most important for that song and maccordingly. You don't need to squash it for web streaming,because the listeners' hands are pretty much on the volumebutton. But if you expect people to listen to your stuff fromphone speakers, then something closer to sidechained white

noise might work better.

------------------Discipline EP released and there are public remix packs in thisthread.

Mimicry - Comfort:

05-18-2012, 06:22 PM #

AlterioridSample Destroyer

Calgary

Age: 21Posts: 278MC Status: 4604Thanks: 6Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


The mixes of both are very different, as are the mixes forcountry and reggae.

The most important thing to remember that compressing yourkick and sidechaining something, gating your this, reverbingyour that, so on, so forth, are all part of the sound design inelectronic music. Make sure you understand the boundarybetween sound design and mixing, as they use the exact samtools. The mix is to make sure everything gels w ith each otherall regards... Level, frequencies, panning placement, dynamicrange, etc.

My biggest ProTip:Subgroups. Mix your drums and only your drums, and then busthem to their own "drums track". Do the same other percussio(shakers, etc.), and every other element that there is. Once yohave the levels for each element working perfectly withthemselves, you can THEN set level between all drums with thbass, and then make the lead(s) sit well with that, and on andon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghytwembpang I'm pretty sure they always record everything to tapebefore any further processing. This surely has an effect ontheir sound.

It gives it a slight colouration, but the extent and hue reallydepends on the tape and record/read heads. It maintains thetape sound after the analog to digital conversion, too, which isthe who le point.

Experiment time!You can try this at home by having a VCR and a blank VHS tapon the output of your interface and dubbing every stemseparate ly and bringing it back into your DAW. I'm not sure thextent/hue of the colouration to the sound for this one, as it is






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just a concept I want to try, but the principle is the exact same

Last edited by Alteriorid; 05-18-2012 at 06:31 PM..

------------------

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Originally Posted by wavefront

I figure ping pong can solve 70% of lifes problems.

05-18-2012, 06:44 PM #




Quote:

Originally Posted by ghytwembpang

well one thing I can say is that Tool does a huge amount of multitracking on most parts of their songs.

If I recall, the drums get the least and are finished thefastest, I believe Danny does the drums for a record in 2-4weeks. The guitars get the most, Adam sometimes takesup to 3 months to finish experimenting, layering tonestogether and getting a final unified tone that he's happy with.

I'm pretty sure they always record everything to tapebefore any further processing. This surely has an effect ontheir sound.

you might want to look into David Bottrill a bit, he produced lateralus and aenima. could give some insight to his

processes etc.

Yea I was reading about him a bit, and Ive heard that aboutAdam.Would you say that you can hear a distinct difference betweenAenima and Lateralus even in terms of mixing. Aenima justsounds so organic and "real" to me, where as Lateralus, whiclove in terms of the songs, sounds more polished and kind of like the mixing of typical new music with that really compressesound and stuff.... I think if I had a choice I would want mymixes to sound more like Aenima, how bout you?













05-18-2012, 07:32 PM #

ghyt wembpang




Quote:

Originally Posted by henryspencer

Yea I was reading about him a bit, and Ive heard that about Adam.Would you say that you can hear a distinct differencebetween Aenima and Lateralus even in terms of mixing. Aenima just sounds so organic and "real" to me, where asLateralus, which I love in terms of the songs, sounds more polished and kind of like the mixing of typical new music with that really compressed sound and stuff.... I think if I had a choice I would want my mixes to sound more like Aenima, how bout you?

Opiate was incredibly raw, the band at their youngest and moangry, and their least eloquent and polished. They were pisseoff, each member had their own issues in varying degrees of seriousness, and that absolutely came though in their earliestrecordings and shows.

Undertow was far more polished but still had that raw angerand aggression to it. Silvia Massey produced that one; it's awonderful album but the band wasn't entirely pleased w ith thend result. It also saw the more introspective and spiritual sidbegin to peek out - they intentionally chose their most

aggressive songs to use on Opiate as they felt this would bethe best first impress ion on the industry they could make, at atime when heavy music was starting to make a real mainstreacomeback after the hair-metal and disco focus of the past 10-15~ years o f music at that time. Evidently it turned out to be asound judgement.

Aenima saw the shift away from that aggression towardssomething more enlightened, less about being angry and morabout letting that anger go, because it rarely serves any usefpurpose(good art is about the only real, solid upshot of such aextreme emotion.) As you say it was still more raw, definitely avery different beast from Undertow due to their recruiting of Bottrill as their producer and the replacement of Paul D'Amourwith Justin Chancellor at the very infancy of the albumsformation. In case you're wondering and don't already know,

the roster change was amicable; the band was simply gettingmore popular than Paul was comfortable with.

On Lateralus they shift even more into the spiritual andtherapeutic - the band has been together about 10 years, thehave matured and securely found their stride with Justin, andthey are more thoughtful about their subject matter and thepresentation of said matter than they ever have been. Theyshift away from the grittier, more organic sound to a cleanerand more produced sound. They experimented more withmultitracking on that album than ever before, in particularMaynard doing far more vocal overdubs and harmonies than hhad felt comfortable doing previously. I never thought of it asmore compressed but that is likely an effect of their morelaborious crafting of the recordings - they are still a wonderfuldynamic band, and they still manage to capture much of the

energy present at their live shows.

10,000 Days saw this trend continue, however without thecontribution o f Bottrill - like the ir split with Massey it wasnothing personal, they simply felt that they had done the bestwork they were going to with him and that they could get amore accurate representation of the ir art by producing itthemselves. They delved further into the exploration of persongrowth and spirituality - and Maynard put forth one of his mospowerful and openhearted performances/set of lyrics in the foof the title tracks, dealing with the issue of his mother's life,death, and how it affected him(and subsequently, due topeoples gross misinterpretations of what the song is about, hsaid that he would not be writing anything that was quite soclose to his heart again) - while also being unafraid to put outtracks like The Pot and Rosetta Stoned which merged some ve

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silly ideas and lyrics with serious issues.

I am incredibly excited to finally find out what the band isworking on now - they have been in writing on and off for abotwo years now, and with it being about 6 years since 10k Daythey're due to be announcing something soon if they stick totheir historical pace. It is disappointing in a sense to know thathere almost certainly won't be anything quite as emotional anpersonal as the two title tracks from 10k Days, however I canunderstand perfectly Maynard's stated reason for this - to havsomething like that misinterpreted and misunderstood by somany people, especially for someone who is as intensely privaas Maynard, can't be something that's easy to dea l with orattempt to repeat.

This is all a bit off topic though. to actually answer yourquestion, I can't really say whether I'd prefer the mix of onealbum over another, either as a listener or to attempt toemulate myself. It really depends on the songs and what I hoto do w ith them. That said, if you fee l the sound of Aenima issomething you want to emulate with your own creations,absolutely strive for that - just don't lose sight of your ownvoice and vision while doing it.

And yes, I have a lot to say about them. They've been one of the most influential artistic forces in my life and I feel certainthat I have connected with the band in the best sense that afan and an artists can hope to connect in without ever being ieachother's presence(i have not seen them live, and thatsucks).

------------------

Quote:



05-18-2012, 08:27 PM #

TheIlladelphKnob Twiddler

Boulder, CO

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Nice. That was a good read

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05-18-2012, 10:56 PM #




Quote:

Originally Posted by ghytwembpang

Opiate was incredibly raw, the band at their youngest and most angry, and their least eloquent and polished. They were pissed off, each member had their own issues invarying degrees of seriousness, and that absolutely camethough in their earliest recordings and shows.

Undertow was far more polished but still had that raw anger and aggression to it. Silvia Massey produced that one; it's a wonderful album but the band wasn't entirely pleased with the end result. It also saw the moreintrospective and spiritual side begin to peek out - they intentionally chose their most aggressive songs to use onOpiate as they felt this would be the best first impressionon the industry they could make, at a time when heavy music was starting to make a real mainstream comeback after the hair-metal and disco focus of the past 10-15~years of music at that time. Evidently it turned out to be asound judgement.

Aenima saw the shift away from that aggression towardssomething more enlightened, less about being angry and more about letting that anger go, because it rarely servesany useful purpose(good art is about the only real, solid upshot of such an extreme emotion.) As you say it wasstill more raw, definitely a very different beast fromUndertow due to their recruiting of Bottrill as their producer and the replacement of Paul D'Amour with JustinChancellor at the very infancy of the albums formation. Incase you're wondering and don't already know, the roster change was amicable; the band was simply getting more popular than Paul was comfortable with.

On Lateralus they shift even more into the spiritual and therapeutic - the band has been together about 10 years,they have matured and securely found their stride with Justin, and they are more thoughtful about their subject matter and the presentation of said matter than they ever have been. They shift away from the grittier, more organic

sound to a cleaner and more produced sound. They experimented more with multitracking on that album thanever before, in particular Maynard doing far more vocal overdubs and harmonies than he had felt comfortabledoing previously. I never thought of it as more compressed but that is likely an effect of their more laborious crafting of the recordings - they are still a wonderfully dynamic band,and they still manage to capture much of the energy present at their live shows.

10,000 Days saw this trend continue, however without the contribution of Bottrill - like their split with Massey it was nothing personal, they simply felt that they had donethe best work they were going to with him and that they could get a more accurate representation of their art by producing it themselves. They delved further into the

exploration of personal growth and spirituality - and Maynard put forth one of his most powerful and openhearted performances/set of lyrics in the form of thetitle tracks, dealing with the issue of his mother's life,death, and how it affected him(and subsequently, due to peoples gross misinterpretations of what the song isabout, he said that he would not be writing anything that was quite so close to his heart again) - while also beingunafraid to put out tracks like The Pot and Rosetta Stoned which merged some very silly ideas and lyrics with seriousissues.

I am incredibly excited to finally find out what the band isworking on now - they have been in writing on and off for about two years now, and with it being about 6 years since10k Days they're due to be announcing something soon if







they stick to their historical pace. It is disappointing in asense to know that there almost certainly won't beanything quite as emotional and personal as the two titletracks from 10k Days, however I can understand perfectly Maynard's stated reason for this - to have something likethat misinterpreted and misunderstood by so many people,especially for someone who is as intensely private asMaynard, can't be something that's easy to deal with or attempt to repeat.

This is all a bit off topic though. to actually answer your question, I can't really say whether I'd prefer the mix of one album over another, either as a listener or to attempt to emulate myself. It really depends on the songs and what I hope to do with them. That said, if you feel thesound of Aenima is something you want to emulate withyour own creations, absolutely strive for that - jus t don't lose sight of your own voice and vision while doing it.

And yes, I have a lot to say about them. They've been oneof the most influential artistic forces in my life and I feel certain that I have connected with the band in the best sense that a fan and an artists can hope to connect inwithout ever being in eachother's presence(i have not seenthem live, and that sucks).

Thanks! Tool have also been huge for me, and I recognize alloof those deta ils from stuff Ive read. Did you get that magaz inethat was dedicated to them (revolver I think)? It was good.

I also look forward to what they are going to do next howeveI sense that Maynard has moved on. The therapy effect of themusic has done its job and it seems that he can move ontomore of a normal life of enjoying his wine farm and jokingaround with puscifer. I also have to say having seen them livetwice over the past two years (and seeing a perfect circle in2000 and 2003), the years have taken their tool on his voice,badly. Its not the same and neither is his energy. I feel that thAenima, Lateralus time was really the defining period for me,however they all seem to approach things as artists and if theres one thing for sure, maynard is just one piece of the pieso I am indeed looking forward to where they push it now. Thare jamming in their same jam space now according to the

toolarmy cite. So lets see what comes up! I hope Danny willbust out that collection of ancient synths he has, which theyseemed to use a bit last concert...

Thanks again. It was very interesting to hear about the multitracking especially on lateralus. Man, would I have loved to befly on the wall during those sessions....

Thanks to henryspencer ghyt wembpang (05-19-2012)

05-19-2012, 01:26 PM #

ghyt wembpang Re: band mixing (Tool, nin etc) vs EDM mixing

mm, definitely a shame about Maynard's voice, but that's whatyou get when you push it for those really intense screams - hecouldn't speak for 3 days after recording Ticks and Leeches,which is why they'll never play it live.' But like you sa id he seeto be in a good place now so it's only natural he wouldn't keedredging up old painful subject matter for the sake of otherpeople's entertainment. He's also s tated that in the past(veryprominently on Aenima and Lateralus) he was interested in soof 'helping people along' so to speak, providing some form of spiritual or practical guidance for people, but moving forwardhe's not as interested in writing that sort of thing as mostpeople just don't get it. so it makes a lot of sense that he'd beenjoying the much less serious topics explored with Puscifer, just s illy music for the sake of having a good time.












I did get that magazine, it was quite awesome. Still have itaround somewhere I think.

It'd be awesome to hear some of Danny synth collection getused, but I'm not sure if that's what you heard at that concertmost of that stuff is pretty fragile in it's old age - not the kindastuff you want to take out on the road. I'm pretty sure Danny just runs Battery off his macbook for his electronic percs, andAdam runs an Access Virus controlled by that organ-bass-stylefoot controller on his pedalboard.

fuck man, insight into their recording sess ions would beawesome but what I'd love even more would be a chance to jam and hang out with some or all of them. Hell, just to get tovisit the Loft would be so crazy math.

------------------

Quote:



Thanks to ghyt wembpang henryspencer (05-20-2012)

09-08-2012, 11:53 AM #

AuditusMinor Glitch

Lucerne Valley, CA



Quote:Originally Posted by ghyt wembpang

mm, definitely a shame about Maynard's voice, but that'swhat you get when you push it for those really intensescreams - he couldn't speak for 3 days after recordingTicks and Leeches, which is why they'll never play it live.' But like you said he seems to be in a good place now so it'sonly natural he wouldn't keep dredging up old painful subject matter for the sake of other people'sentertainment. He's also stated that in the past(very prominently on Aenima and Lateralus) he was interested in sort of 'helping people along' so to speak, providing someform of spiritual or practical guidance for people, but moving forward he's not as interested in writing that sort of thing as most people just don't get it. so it makes a lot of sense that he'd be enjoying the much less serious

topics explored with Puscifer, just silly music for the sakeof having a good time.

I did get that magazine, it was quite awesome. Still have it around somewhere I think.

It'd be awesome to hear some of Danny synth collectionget used, but I'm not sure if that's what you heard at that concert, most of that stuff is pretty fragile in it's old age -not the kinda stuff you want to take out on the road. I'm pretty sure Danny just runs Battery off his macbook for his electronic percs, and Adam runs an Access Viruscontrolled by that organ-bass-style foot controller on his pedalboard.

fuck man, ins ight into their recording sess ions would be












awesome but what I'd love even more would be a chanceto jam and hang out with some or all of them. Hell, just toget to visit the Loft would be so crazy math.

I saw ticks and leeches performed live a few months ago, sofuckin epic!!!! During the middle part there were bats on thescreens on the sides o f the stage. It was overcast and therewas a tree w ith bats, couldnt understand why and thensuddenly i realize "blood suckers". haha so epic. I saw puscifetwice, tool and a perfect circle a ll in this las t year. So fuckinamazing I dont have words to express it but im sure you guys

know. Lateralus was the craziest shit every live holy shittt!!!!haha im glad to see some TOOL fans in these here forums.

09-08-2012, 03:21 PM #

ghyt wembpang


Age: 21Posts: 9,790MC Status: 471587351Thanks: 782Thanked 760 Times in 625

Posts


Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditus

I saw ticks and leeches performed live a few months ago,so fuckin epic!!!! During the middle part there were batson the screens on the s ides of the s tage. It was overcast

and there was a tree with bats, couldnt understand why and then suddenly i realize "blood suckers". haha so epic. I saw puscifer twice, tool and a perfect circle all in this last year. So fuckin amazing I dont have words to express it but im sure you guys know. Lateralus was the craziest shit every live holy shittt!!!! haha im glad to see someTOOL fans in these here forums.

uhWHA? they played Ticks and Leeches live!? That is actuallyreally surprising to me... did they do it differently at all, or thesame way as the album version?

It was my understanding that Maynard was a bitafraid/unwilling to do shit like that anymore due to

strain/damage to his voice. But I'm glad to be wrong if that's tcase, really. Either I was wrong entirely or Maynard's voice hahealed up/he's been practicing his scream technique in the pafew years.

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Quote:



09-10-2012, 05:14 AM #

MiddieGhostly


Quote:

Originally Posted by ghyt wembpang

mm, definitely a shame about Maynard's voice, but that'swhat you get when you push it for those really intensescreams - he couldn't speak for 3 days after recordingTicks and Leeches, which is why they'll never play it live...















Melbourne


They have actually played it live

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09-10-2012, 06:58 AM #

EatTheFoodBananas

is NOT full of rich people.



Quote:


i have to say that the dynamics have a LOT to do with how clean you sound.there's a reason mid90's mixes sounds so damned cleanand unintrus ive, just take a listen to virtually any mainstream album that weren't techno (in fact, even thetechno type shit has clean mixes heh) and compare it to asimilar one today. you have to realise that when apply all that sortof overcompression that todays ME's likes to doon a regulat basis you are boosting things that shouldn't be boosted while you are limiting things that shouldn't belimited, resulting in a very odd spatial imagine in general.overcompression in general can make things sound wierd,and f said wierd has some stereo processing going on you'll be sure that this stereo processing is going to sound evenwierder; it was designed to sit in the back subtly, not inyourface up front assaulting your ears.

seriously, just try it. take a good week or so and listen and understand the mixes of most mid90's music, then

compare it with todays music of the same genre.

it will make you cry, surely.

It already made me cry.Like ghyt said. Stupid loudness wars.

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