Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes - … · Approval of Previous Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes ... CITO’s focus is to promote trades to K-12;

Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes June 26

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Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes June 26th -27th, 2013

North Island College, Comox Valley Campus (Host)

Attendees:

Geoff Murray (Chair) Camosun College [email protected] Ross Pullan College of New Caledonia [email protected] Dennis Carlson Northwest Community College [email protected] Stephen Pelley VIU [email protected] Gary Henderson BC Institute of Technology [email protected] Alf Leimert Okanagan College [email protected] Randy Werger Okanagan College [email protected] Jessie Magee-Chalmers VIU [email protected] Mark Ryan University of Fraser Valley [email protected] Ted Zak University of Fraser Valley [email protected] Wayne Andrews Kwantlen Polytechnic University [email protected] Al Van Akker Camosun College [email protected] Derek Smith Camosun College Grant Newburg Camosun College Marvin Rode Okanagan College [email protected] Don Hampton College of the Rockies [email protected] Craig McCallum Selkirk College [email protected] Tom Newton Camosun College Stephen Janssen Northern Lights College [email protected] Erik Hardin North Island College [email protected] Larry R. Casey Thompson Rivers University [email protected] Yves Blaison BC Institute of Technology [email protected]

Guests

Dave Coleman Executive Director CITO Randy Callaghan Field Personnel Advisor

Technical Chair PCL Skills Canada

[email protected]

Doug Podetz Director, Program Standards ITA [email protected] Cory Williams Manager, Program Standards ITA [email protected] Ruth McGillivray Manager, Quality Assurance ITA [email protected]

mailto:[email protected]
























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Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes June 26th, 2013

Welcome

Don Gillingham, Dean, Trades & Technology and Jeff Wharton, Coordinator, Trades & Technical Programs welcomed participants to North Island College.

Call to Order

Geoff Murray called the meeting to order @ 8:38 am.

Approval of Agenda

Al Van Akker MOVED; Yves Blaison SECONDED approval to the agenda as presented. CARRIED

Approval of Previous Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes

Larry Casey MOVED; Alf Leimert SECONDED the adoption of the June 20th-21st, 2012 Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes CARRIED

Discussion

Geoff Murray indicted that the meeting minutes from the previous year’s meeting remain in draft form for one year. He would like to circulate minutes soon after each year’s meeting and have them adopted electronically so that when they are posted on the BCCATA website they appear as adopted minutes rather than in draft minutes.

Presentations from ITA -

Doug Podetz, Director of Program Standards with ITA introduced Cory Williams, Manager, Program Standards and Ruth McGillivray, Manager, Quality Assurance.

Doug provided an overview of the key areas that ITA was focused on at this time.

Red Seal IP results Apprenticeship support Challenge Process Standard Level Exams

Cory Williams, Manager Program Standards

Cory Williams’ presentation focused on the performance of apprentices in BC, trade qualifiers and challengers.

Cory indicated that there are challenges to separating data to accurately reflect on how apprenticeships as doing. Challenge to do with issue of privacy, especially when dealing with smaller jurisdictions where there may only be one candidate.


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From Cory’s presentation a number of discussions occurred related to strengthening the Red Seal and the NOA initiative.

Apprenticeship Support

ITA was asked to investigate Apprenticeship Support as a result of the Skills Plan that was released in September. There have been a number of regional meetings around province pull all information together. Results from those meeting were reviewed and recommendations were made to bring coaches on board – initially looking at bringing 5 coaches – looking at an expansion process – more work to be done. The job postings should be out fairly shortly with a long term expansion happening. The initiative recognizes that apprentices need support.

Challenge Pathway

Changes to the Challenge Pathway are being made in the following trades:

Carpentry Millwright Construction electrician Metal fabricator Heavy duty equipment technician

The intent is to create more rigour for anyone applying – Doug Podetz reviewed the new pathway. Pathway will now include a technical interviewer who has the authority to determine if the candidate is ready to proceed, a practical assessment, and proof of hours.

Ruth McGillivray, Manager Quality Assurance, Program Standards

Ruth provided an overview of how exams are approached at ITA and the Standardized Level Exam (SLE) initiative.

Invigilation

Participants identified a number of concerns that students had expressed about the invigilation of exams – Doug Podetz indicated that he would make sure that the feedback was forwarded and discussed with invigilation staff. Another concern from instructors is that students who write on-line exams are receiving their marks in advance of the instructor receiving them.

Exam Weighting

All standard level exams will be weighted the same for every trade - 20% and 80% in school exam – lower impact on overall grade – writing exam is not the most important aspect of learning a trade – expectation overtime the weighting will increase – what will it increase too is not determined – evidence based approach will be used to determine – not unfairly disadvantaging people who have difficulty when writing exams – want it to be evidenced based rather than an arbitrary weight

Discussion re: online exams

Need opportunity to practice before taking exam Preference for online


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Math calculations – trying to be consistent with procedure with IP would be useful – one booklet with name on it – given by invigilator – when doing a paper based exam

Issue on scrap paper going to work with invigilator to issue scrap paper to work on = intent is not to create barriers to candidate

Issues on online exams – code books – not all students have them Issue with space – labs not all large enough to allow for code books Use of calculators – found that students did not want online calculator want to use one they are

used to using – bring your own calculator – non programmable calculators – Where is the exact situation with invigilators – inconsistencies – do more research on this item –

pull process together – ITA continuing to move forward and taking responsibility for invigilators – BCIT arrangements with their test centre – move to consistent process for invigilators

Concerns based on lab availability – trying to accommodate as much as possible – it will take some time to work things out –

Doug Podetz provided a summation of where things go from here.

Process of getting level 3 out SLE – exam mark has to be taken out of theory section – exam mark treated separately and then

blending process in class exam in Level three reviewed and finalized How marks are finalized – instructor in school mark based on guidelines – direct access

candidates write exam – ITA scores exam – ITA inputs test score – blended market based on 80/20 final mark

Pulling exam mark out of the theory – percentage marks on theory side need to be altered To make sure best possible job with exams before launch them – instructors in part of review

process of exams before launch – trying to establish a degree of consistency before exams go out into the system – not having exposure to errors when candidates are writing exams

CITO Report – Dave Coleman

Broad industry construction consultation is huge and it is very important to invite representatives to PAC meetings – goal to be talking to industry and one of the best places to do so is at PAC meetings –

CITO’s focus is to promote trades to K-12; outreach and programs for aboriginal communities and northern communities.

CITO reviewed Carpentry Program Outline last year against the building code and not missing

things –

CITO has undertaken a pilot project with plumbers and carpenters who had failed apprentices in three different regions – focus on needs of that particular group – provide specific training –workshops – all marks increased 57% received 70% or more – pretty good plan – approached ITA – will do again – offer 12 of these programs – 1,075 carpenters looking at all four levels of technical training who have failed IP – short program 1 to ½ weeks 50 to 55 hours

Dave indicated that if there were any apprentices through the Colleges that might benefit from this type of training to contact CITO for assistance.

Foreign qualification recognition – idea to address barriers to certification – development of technical interview determine where to go and pathway – what happens when fails the IP – about ½ don’t pass – what happens to them next – there needs to be a tie back into the assessment


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Weeks of Training

An application has been made to ITA for more time in school. Dave outlined process. Discussed regional variations in the number of weeks of training and why BC only provides 24 weeks of training.

Chair’s Report – Geoff

Time consuming role primarily main focus is improving the learning resources – spend hours dealing with this – support of Camosun College and other reps at the table. Geoff provided an update on current activities.

Building Code

The cost of the building code was discussed. Cost is often too expensive for students. Important that every student have a building code. This should be a shared responsibility with the sponsor.

Royalty Fund

Geoff provided current status of Carpentry Royalty Fund. Funds have been used to improve learning resources. Approximately $110,000 per year.

Geoff provided an overview of the Royalty Fund and changes to the Fund. Geoff indicated his plans for his second term as Chair. He would like to see all four levels of

modules revised and modernized.

Skills Canada Report – Randy Callaghan

Randy Callaghan reported on Skills Canada. Indicated how successful Try A Trade was at the provincial competition.

Randy thanked everyone involved. Skills Canada is a great way to expose young people to the

trades.

NOA

New NOA includes a section on layout. BC has given input and recommended inclusion of seismic, timber construction and rain screen content.

Assessment Guidelines – Theory/Practical Line Weighting

80/20 guideline from ITA has changed ITA has asked to consider these two numbers for all of the levels How they are weighted into the final mark is what is different Suggest make that all 20-40-40 rather than the practical level varying per year The increase in the SLE may have an impact over the course of time – formula change Consider everyone move to a 20 40 40 split – maintains relative value of the practical – sake of

ease and consistency In best interest of apprentice as long as the level exam never outweighs the theory/practical Change the value of the final has gone done – how are we going to spread across in school areas If raise value of practical assessment – needs to be rigorous


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Practical is very important to employer – if failing in practical going to be laid off first and not going

Assumption that getting more opportunity for practical with employer and expecting theory Always need to maintain some level of discretion – more time if they need it – show different

way – remember that it is an apprenticeship

MOTION

Al Van Akker; MOVED that the formula of 20/40/40 be adopted for all three levels and that these levels are to remain equal in light of any SLE changes and to review next year. Seconded; Tom Newton. CARRIED

Module Committee Report – Geoff Murray

Suggested name change to Curriculum Committee Geoff provided an overview of how process works Level Two – still going over images– J1 – first thing that tried to do – lost in the shuffle with queens printer now needs to be revised

due to new code Level 3 revisions will be ready for fall term There are now self-test answer booklets for level 1 and 4 – they will be available to order from

Queen's Printer for fall intake Level 2 already complete Now have answer keys for self-tests – each college with determine how to distribute to students Next step – what are we going to do next – the deans know about this now and how much

energy that goes into the revisions – across all the trades – Revision of Modules – Next Projects – Geoff Murray

Level one and level four still require revision Level two is deficient in its images – proposal to include improvement of typos and image bank –

new drawings – new images – in combination with original writer’s notes Suggestion to include involving a writer in the process as early as possible Fourth year modules require a lot more work. First year modules in better shape. Consider doing Level 1 revisions first so as not to wait for another year until they are done Quality of modules, especially during the first year, is important to maintain interest of students Year one modules there are bits and pieces that are in year 4 – anything that changes in year 1

and year 2 may be effective year 4 year 1 - sets tone – shows professional – by time the student gets to year 4 year Level 4

revisions would be done –

MOTION

Tom Newton; MOVED that the next module to focus on would be Level One and to revise images for

Level Two, Stephen Janssen; SECONDED. CARRIED

Meeting Adjourned @ 3 pm.


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Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes June 27th, 2013

Call to Order

Geoff Murray called the meeting to order 8:38 am.

Business Arising from June 26th, 2013.

Royalty Fund and the Development of Learning Resources

Geoff reviewed royalty fund for the trades that are collecting royalties – Residential construction will become part of the general fund – Doug Podetz provided details

about how other trades have been using the royalty fund – Doug noted that resources are being purchased by other provinces Projected revenues approximately 400 thousand per year Subject matter experts are being paid $50 per hour for $400 day – College often ends up

subsidizing Other part is to be reviewers – Geoff needs to sit down with Open College to get an idea of how

much time is needed for the review process Open School and Queen’s printer also shares the revenues from the fund as well – not really a

possibility to hire a writer specifically for the project – Format old modules existed in are no longer compatible – the entire modules are being put into

new format Question as to whether or not there is an outline for Level 3 format. It is based on draft

program outline. Geoff will email draft to participants.

IP Exam Success Rates

Discussed IP exams and how important for our students to pass the IP.

Barriers to Student Success with IP Exam

Lack of experience Lack of range of experience – don’t have breadth of the trade Students going back to back sometimes – no controls in the system after 1,000 hours to write

the IP Colleges booking – part of the problem – encouraging to get guys in seats Volume of material Commitment and involvement of the employer in the process On the job training may not be adequate Timing of IP testing – don’t administer until they have had the 5000 hours – issue of knowledge

retention – which comes first – difficult challenge Public school system is not promoting trades to same extent Quality of learner Change in attitude – sense of entitlement – money is good – how do you instill that pride back

into trade Driven by money rather than experience – what is a good apprenticeship


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Reading and comprehensive skills and basic math skills are required – Background of learners – broad range in a single class from grade 8 from higher level education Skills that are at the next level on the journey of a journeyman – not sure that we are doing

enough – things are being left out because there is not enough time – what do you leave out to make sure that you cover everything?

Retention Time in school

What can we do as instructors do to reduce barriers to success for students?

IP exams – if student has a diagnosed learning ability accommodations are available through ITA College can do to give instructors and students – all instructors teach all the years – partially so

you know what is happening at the end – partly so won’t burn out teaching foundation Expose students to PO – know what the expectations are – get it out there to the employers – to

have a least an idea of what needs to be covered – quick way to go Identify whether have a learning disability or learning deficiencies and get college on board to

assist with accommodations – extra tutoring peer tutoring as soon as coming into first year Expanded four year class for larger institutions for those students that require longer time Nice to back to official logbook – make actively aware of log book – need to focus on Right at the beginning of class – math, line material, issues that – have you met your objectives –

what do you actually have – what do you have at the end – do you know what a tradesperson – or are you just looking for a job – craft – history – carpenter a whole skill set – gone from a career to just a job

Responsibility for own learning Provide students with a list of expectations for next year – one for student one for employers Mentoring aspect on the job – mentoring/job coaching – how to mentor other apprentices – are

we training a generation of mediocre carpenters because with can’t mentor them properly

Log Books

The topic of log books, their usefulness and whether or not they should be re-introduced was discussed. A small group from the Committee will convene to look at this topic in more detail.

Doug indicated that he has some examples of record books that some ITO’s are using. Doug will share with the group.

Shared Resources

Discussed the need for sharing resources and how this might be accomplished.

BC Trades Module website does not appear to be used Expanding the resources – putting on test banks – there is a gov’t delay on how this happens –

lots of programs – Drop Box – own informal carpenter instructor resource – can drop in- create own in house resource library – share presentations videos – expanding learning resources – don’t want to search for ever – who ever finds something could drop into resource – start building resource bank – is this useful- would guys use it

Need to know how secure a test bank – pass word protected – all those things need to be addressed – limit what you put in – things are getting more secure –

Will do some research and let Geoff know about what possibilities are. Ease of use would be critical


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Maybe as simple as emailing information to Geoff and Geoff sends out to everyone. Sharing of projects – so don’t have to keep reinventing projects –

Collectively agree that put in very best work – don’t put everything in there or would become too much

More focused stuff – do test bank and then move to practical projects and one person take the lead on each area – stay focused on what to put in

Small Group Discussions

Participants broke into to small groups to discuss:

IP Prep Level II Images Practical Assessments Log Books Test Banks

College Reports

College of New Caledonia

A new dean Full enrolment for the fall and spring Apprenticeships were down Improving exams – matching paperwork to exams – parallel for every line – top notch drawings

– use graphic designer

Northwest Community College (NWCC)

Two foundation classes – all but one of apprenticeship – high amount of work and speculative work in the NW – wait list for apprentice – additional demand for new apprentices

Involved in an inter-trades program – 20 weeks – carpentry for grade 10 students – 2 instructors – 2 p/t instructors – re-tooling entire shop – received some additional dollars

Considered the FT McMurray of the west – no shortage of funding – very optimistic

Vancouver Island University (VIU)

class gets to work on a house – build with Habitat for Humanity – apprentice – hard time filling classes – next year looking grim – cancelling classes – received funding to run Aboriginal construction programs – dean is retiring - Carpentry received no new funds

British Columbia Institute of Technology (BCIT)

Enrolment down – still run 10 classes 4 of which are foundation – aboriginal foundation program in the fall – coming new year –

New assistant in program – transportation scanning system to bar code all tools and attach tool to students – great way to keep track of inventory – tools – come back with own tool – repairs – transactions done – most get scan bar on helmets – also making happen for staff as well – standard across the schools


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Still in planning stages program for trades people to learn how to run a small business – discussion earlier this month – part time studies course specifically for trades people – also teaching contractors – give some of the ins/outs of running a business

Last spring/summer working on project with PNE – play structure with Habitat for Humanity – like a job site – deadline – didn’t win but was fun anyways

Okanagan College

Apprentice numbers are down – to three streams – 6 foundation classes – numbers starting to come back on foundation courses starting to waitlist

Scanner system – take students’ photograph when scan in toolbox number How to encourage more young people to come into the trades – also with PAC discussion New construction – announcement of funding revitalization in Kelowna – overview of

construction phases – covered area for heavy duty equipment – Planning phase for next section of construction in next 15 months – net zero energy usage – first

time ever done on a renovated building – lot more challenge –

University of the Fraser Valley

All classes full – busy on new CMC machine – Open House in spring went very well – last month purchased large Alaska saw

Kwantlen Polytechnic University

Same only worse – two streams of apprenticeship – this year did cancel some classes – can’t find people to teach for three days – running two foundations this year – 5 basic classes – instructor teaching First Nations in Pemberton – New Dean –

Camosun College

23 apprenticeship classes – stream of foundation courses – enrollment weak – a bit of an uptick – first year numbers beginning to increase – doing a lot of non-traditional programming – trade exploration courses – women in trades – three weeks in carpentry – dedicated foundation program for First Nations group – decided rather than into regular stream of foundation not going to work very well- first run through reading math and study skills and up to level to be successful – recently received $160,000 for tools – for ship building – going to be a ship building mecca – new trades building but carpentry will not be moving into it –

College of Rockies

-numbers are soft – down to one stream of apprenticeship and one entry level –– new dean in August – a couple of upgrades –

Selkirk College

same as everyone else – down to 4 app classes and 2 foundation classes – school board now has someone charged with getting students interested in trades – foundation students in process of putting new roof on compound increase square footage of covered space – another instructor full time has made a difference really working well


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Northern Lights College

running 5 classes like always have – finished houses selling for top dollars to buy a lot for next year – build a house every year – students do everything but the plumbing , electrical - 1500 sq feet unfinished basement – selling before done – over $300,00 and Ft St. John $400,000 – new machines purchased from $10,000 – new trades building being planned – new dean of trades – Randy Tremblay – 8’ tower for wind turbine – laminated timber –

North Island College

7 streams – one foundation class – lost one in PT Alberni – everything else going pretty good – Trades Dean Don Gillingham is retiring – not sure of the future – ran regional skills at NIC for carpentry for first time – new hospital being built next year

Geoff thanked everyone for the college reports

Next Meeting

Kwantlen Polytechnic, June 25 & 26th, 2014

Steve Pelly MOVED that the meeting be adjourned at 2:33 p.m. Alf Leimert SECONDED. CARRIED

Documents

Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes - … · Approval of Previous Carpentry Articulation Committee Meeting Minutes ... CITO’s focus is to promote trades to K-12;