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Chronic renal disease in the elderly: are all pigs to be considered equal? W. Van Biesen, Ghent University Hospital

Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

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Page 1: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Chronic renal disease intheelderly:

areallpigs tobe considered equal?

W.VanBiesen,GhentUniversityHospital

Page 2: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 3: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Elwood etal,cJASN,2013

Page 4: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Elderly andCKD:athematicsynthesis

Page 5: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Overview• CKDintheelderly:adisease?

– How toassess renal function intheelderly?– How toassess progression intheelderly?– How toassess riskofdeath intheelderly?

• How toassess functional statusintheelderly?• How toassess nutritional statusintheelderly?• Todialyseor not todialyse?Isthat thequestion?

• Some ethical considerations

Page 6: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Probability ambiguity

complexity

CONTEXT

Page 7: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Rembrandt: Portrait of an Old Man in Red Thanks toRembrandandEdwina Brown

Page 8: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Sorrowing Old Man (‘At Eternity’s Gates’) by van GoghThanks toVanGoghandEdwina Brown

Page 9: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

IsCKDadisease intheelderly?

Page 10: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

IsCKDadisease intheelderly?

Page 11: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Estimating renal function intheelderly

Page 12: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

AJKD,2012

Page 13: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

AJKD,2012

Page 14: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

AJKD,2012

Page 15: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

AJKD,2012

Page 16: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 17: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Q1:Whatparametershouldbeusedinolder(frail??)patientstoestimatekidneyfunctionfordose

adaptationpurpose?

1.1Werecommend using estimation equations correcting for differences increatinine generation rather than plain serumcreatinine toassess renal function inolder patients (1A)1.2Werecommend there isinsufficient evidence toprefer one estimationequationoveranother asallestimation equations performequally poor andsubstantialmisclassification can occur with allequations inolder patientswith deviatingbodycomposition (1B).1.3Werecommend toactuallymeasure renal function if accurateandpreciseestimation ofGFRisneeded.

Page 18: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

DrugDose Adaptation

Page 19: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

BMCgeriatrics,2013

Page 20: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Q1:Whatparametershouldbeusedinolderpatientstoestimatekidneyfunctionfordoseadaptationpurpose?

• Advice for clinical practice:• kidney function can vary overtimeandshould be followed repetitively usingthesame equation• estimationequations can not be used inpatientswith acutechanges intheirkidney function• evenwhen usingestablished formulae inthis specific population, differentformulas can result indifferentclassifications• serumlevels ofdrugsdepend upon absoluterather thanbodysize correctedclearance• Allformula other than Cockcroft andGault require additional correction forBSAtoobtain absolutevalues• Fordrugswith anarrowtoxic/therapeutic range,regularmeasurement ofserumconcentrations can provideuseful information.However,differences inprotein bindingbetween uraemicvs nonuraemicpatients occur,which mightnecessitate theuse ofdifferenttargetlevels oftotal drugconcentration.

Page 21: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 22: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Riskofdeath vs riskofESRDinfunction ofage

O’Hare,JASN,2007

Page 23: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Riskfor ESRDinfunction ofbaselineeGFR

Gramsetal,AJKD2015

Page 24: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Q2:Whatisthemostreliablescoretopredictprogresion ofchronickidneydiseaseinolderpatientswithCKDstage3borhigher

2.1Werecommend theKidney Failure RiskEquation (KFRE)predicts sufficiently well theriskfor progression ofchronic kidney disease inolder patients with CKDstage3bor higher (1B)

Page 25: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 26: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 27: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 28: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 29: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 30: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Non-Frail elderly

Page 31: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Frailty inpatients on haemodialysis inUS

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

Frailty%

MacAdams-deMarco,JAmSocGeriatry,2013

Page 32: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Frailty inpatients on haemodialysis inUS

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

Frailty%

Noage effect

MacAdams-deMarco,JAmSocGeriatry,2013

Page 33: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Whatisfrailty?

• Decreasedphysiologicreservesordysregulationofmultiplephysiologicsystems– associatedwithageand/orchronicillness

• Presentsascompositeofpoorphysicalfunction,exhaustion,lowphysicalactivityandweightloss

• Associatedwithhigherriskoffalls,cognitiveimpairment,hospitalizationanddeath

• MorecommoninCKDthangeneralpopulation

Page 34: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Commonclinicalpresentationsoffrailty

• Non-specific:extremefatigue,unexplainedweightlossandfrequentinfections

• Falls:balanceandgaitimpairmentimportantriskfactorsandaremajorfeaturesoffrailty

• Delirium:rapidonsetoffluctuatingconfusionwhenadmittedtohospital.Associatedwithadverseoutcomes

• Fluctuatingdisability:daytodayinstabilityresultingingoodandbaddays

Page 35: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Rockwood etal,CMAJ2005

Page 36: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Rockwood etal,CMAJ2005

Page 37: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Q3:Whatisthethe mostreliablemodeltopredictmortalityinolderpatientswithCKDstage3borhigher

3.1Werecommend theBansal scorepredictssufficiently well theriskfor mortality inolderpatients with CKDstage3bor higher not on dialysis

3.2Werecommend that inpatient atlowriskintheBansal score,ascoreincluding assessment offrailtyshould be performed

Page 38: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Tostartor not tostartdialysisisthat thequestion?

Page 39: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 40: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 41: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 42: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

• Dataset2001-2003• Baselineinformationatdialysisinitiationincluded

• age,gender,• eGFR basedoncreatinine andtheMDRDformula• bodymassindex(BMI)• serumalbuminthemonthprecedingdialysisstart• diabetes(type1or2)• congestiveheartfailure(NewYorkHeartAssociationstagesItoIV),ischaemic heartdisease(includinghistoryofmyocardialinfarction,coronaryvasculardisease,coronaryarterybypasssurgery,angioplastyorabnormalangiography)• peripheralvasculardisease(Leriche classificationstagesItoIV)• cerebrovascular disease• arrhythmia• chronicobstructivepulmonarydisease(COPD)• malignancy,livercirrhosis,• mentaldisorders(definedtoincludedementiaandpsychosis)• initialdialysismodality• latereferral(definedasstartingdialysislessthan3monthsafterfirstcontactwiththenephrologydepartment. Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016

Page 43: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

• Duringtheobservationperiod,3472patientsstartedrenalreplacementtherapy.

• For793patients(22.8%)informationononeparameteroftheREINscorewasmissing,makingaREIN scorecalculationimpossible,leaving2679patientsavailableforanalysis.Therewasnodifferencebetweenthosewithversuswithoutmissingdata.

• Morethanhalf(56.4%)andalmostthreequarters(70.3%)ofthoseolderthan85and90yearsofagerespectivelyatstartofdialysishadanaREIN stageof3or4.

• Weregistered276(8.6%),453(14.1%)and681(19.6%)deathsat3,6and12monthsrespectively.• Patientswhodiedduringthefirst3monthswere

•older(74.3±9.9vs 67.0±14.5years,p<0.001),• hadahigheraREIN scoreatstart(6.4±2.7vs 3.9±2.7,p<0.001)• alowerserumcreatinine (6.1±3.8vs 6.7±3.1mg/dl,p<0.01)• alowerbodyweight(69.4±15.5 vs 71.7±15.7kg,p=0.03)

Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016

Page 44: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

RiskfactorsPoints

GenderMale 1

Female 0Age(years)

[75-80[ 0[80-85[ 0[85-90[ 2>=90 3

Congestiveheart failureNo 0

StageI-II 2StageIII-IV 4

PeripheralvasculardiseaseNoor stageI-II 0

StageIII-IV 1Arrhythmia

No 0Yes 1

CancerNo 0Yes 2

SeverebehaviouraldisorderNo 0Yes 2

SerumAlbumin (g/l)<25 5

[25-30[ 3[30-35[ 2

≥35 0

Page 45: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

3month 6month 12month

≤4

5or6

7or8

≥9

Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016

Page 46: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

riskstratification for survivalaREINscore N

≤4 1381 1236 1102 979 865 805 720 454 2295-6 458 367 287 235 183 158 134 81 407-8 222 166 127 105 78 61 50 24 14≥9 92 66 49 35 27 19 14 7 5

Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016

Page 47: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

3month survivalriskstratification

Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016

Page 48: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

12month survivalriskstratification

Peetersetal,BMCnephrology,2016

Page 49: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Q3:Whatisthethe mostreliablemodeltopredictmortalityinolderpatientswithCKDstage3borhigher

3.1Werecommend theBansal scorepredictssufficiently well theriskfor mortality inolderpatients with CKDstage3bor higher not on dialysis

3.2Werecommend that inpatient atlowriskintheBansal score,ascoreincluding assessment offrailtyshould be performed

3.3Werecommend theREINscorepredictssufficiently well theriskfor mortality inpatientsstarting renal replacement therapies

Page 50: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Asystematic review on conservative care

Page 51: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 52: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

RoleofsupportivecareinadvancedCKDmanagement

Aggressivetreatment Bereave-ment

Supportivecare

Time

DialysisTransplantAccessSurgeryAntibiotics

PaincontrolSymptomcontrolPsycho-socialsupportAwarenessofpatientgoalsandconcerns

Page 53: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Withdrawalofdialysis:EuropeanNephrologistsperceptions

Page 54: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Percentageofpatients withdrawn fromdialysis overthelast12months

Polltheaudience

Page 55: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

58,6

36,4

4,10,9

<1% 1-5%6-10% >10%

Percentageofpatients withdrawn fromdialysis overthelast12months

Page 56: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

YES

NO

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

80

Permitdeathlaw

ExplicitPalliativeCarelaw

56,2%

24,2%

43,8%

75,8%

Physician perception oflegal backgroundofdialysis withdrawal

Page 57: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Physician perception oflegal backgroundofdialysis withdrawal

PanelB

Page 58: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Physician perception oflegal backgroundofdialysis withdrawal

Page 59: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 60: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80

relieveburdenoffamilylackofsuitabletransport

lifeexpectancydoesnotoutweighsufferingotherreasons

Ibelievethatpatientswhoactuallywithdrewdidthisbecause

0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40

dontknowlackofcommitmentnephrologist

lackofknowledgeofnephrologist onPClackofsuitablefacilitiesforPClackofsocialsupportathome

afraidofstopmedicalsupervision

Ibelievethatpatientswhoconsideredwithdrawalbutcontinueddialysis

Polltheaudience

Polltheaudience

Page 61: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80

relieveburdenoffamilylackofsuitabletransport

lifeexpectancydoesnotoutweighsufferingotherreasons

Ibelievethatpatientswhoactuallywithdrewdidthisbecause

0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40

dontknowlackofcommitmentnephrologist

lackofknowledgeofnephrologist onPClackofsuitablefacilitiesforPClackofsocialsupportathome

afraidofstopmedicalsupervision

Ibelievethatpatientswhoconsideredwithdrawalbutcontinueddialysis

Page 62: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45

don'tknow

morePCspecialistswereavailable

nephrologists hadmoreexpertiseinPC

betterlogisticalserviceswereavailable

Ibelievemorepatientswouldoptforwithdrawalif

Polltheaudience

Page 63: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45

don'tknow

morePCspecialistswereavailable

nephrologists hadmoreexpertiseinPC

betterlogisticalserviceswereavailable

Ibelievemorepatientswouldoptforwithdrawalif

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Page 65: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 66: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 67: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 68: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients
Page 69: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

CaringvsCuring

Page 70: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Caring:compassion,respectandconcernfortheother

vsCuring:biomedicalintervention

Page 71: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Question1• A85year old women with longstandingdiabetesand

amputations,dialysis dependence,bilateral diabetic retinopathy,ishospitalised because ofdiarrhea.

• AlastChest Xray before dismissionshowsan enlarged hilus,suspicious for amalignancy.What doyou do?– A:you planaCTthoraxandabronchoscopy toestablish thediagnosis

morecertain.– B:you planaCTthorax,aPETscan,abone scintigraphy anda

bronchoscopy for acompletestaging.– C:you just dismissthepatient asplanned– D:You ask theopinion ofthepatient anddiscuss theoption ofwithdrawal

ofdialysis if things goworse– E:You ask theopinion ofthefamily,but donot speak with thepatient

Page 72: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Question 2• Your85yearoldgrandmotherwithlongstandingdiabetesand

amputations,dialysisdependence,bilateraldiabeticretinopathy,ishospitalisedbecauseofdiarrhea.

• AlastChestXraybeforedismissionshowsanenlargedhilus,suspiciousforamalignancy.Whatdoyoudo?– A:youplanaCTthoraxandabronchoscopytoestablishthediagnosis

morecertain.– B:youplanaCTthorax,aPETscan,abonescintigraphyanda

bronchoscopyforacompletestaging.– C:youjustdismissthepatientasplanned– D:Youasktheopinionofthepatientanddiscusstheoptionofwithdrawal

ofdialysisifthingsgoworse– E:Youasktheopinionofthefamily,butdonotspeakwiththepatient

Page 73: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Question3• Yousufferfromanincurabledisease.Whomwouldyouprefertohaveonyourbedside

Page 74: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Question3• Yousufferfromanincurabledisease.Whomwouldyouprefertohaveonyourbedside– A:theworldauthorityforthatdisease

Page 75: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Question3• Yousufferfromanincurabledisease.Whomwouldyouprefertohaveonyourbedside– A:theworldauthorityforthatdisease– B:yourbestfriend

Page 76: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Question3• You suffer from an incurable disease.Whomwould you prefer tohaveon your bedside– A:theworld authority for that disease– B:your bestfriend– C:aphysician who takes careofyour symptoms,andlistens toyou

Page 77: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

RRTatICU:acostutilityanalysis

Laukkanenetal,IntensiveCareMedicine,2012

Page 78: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

Page 79: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

• onwhichgrounds?• comorbidity

Page 80: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

• onwhichgrounds?• comorbidity,

Page 81: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

• onwhichgrounds?• comorbidity,age,

Page 82: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

• onwhichgrounds?• comorbidity,age,diabetes,...color...

Page 83: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

• onwhichgrounds?• comorbidity,age,diabetes,...color...sexualorientation...

Page 84: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Wheredowewanttogo...• Limit(restrict)accesstocure

• onwhichgrounds?• comorbidity,age,diabetes,...color...sexualorientation...

Page 85: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Thesis

Weinvesttoomuchmedical-technical(CURE)attentiontoveryfrail

patientsattheexpenseoftheCAREforthem

àndattheexpenseofthesewhowouldREALYbenefit.

Page 86: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Probability ambiguity

complexity

DialysetoliveNot

Livetodialyse

Page 87: Chronic renal disease in the elderly - Nephrologisches Seminar · 2018. 11. 1. · •During the observation period, 3472 patients started renal replacement therapy. • For 793 patients

Mindfullpractice:

Tocuresometimes,torelieveoften,tocarealways