COOPER SCHOOL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Sharon Faler Ackerlund & Iris Beisner Nichols

Audiotape

[This is an interview with Sharon Faler Ackerlund and Iris Beisner Nichols on May 14, 2003. The interviewers are Philippa Nye and Edie Neeson. The transcriber is Jolene Bernhard.]

Voice A: PhilippaVoice B: EdieVoice C: SharonVoice D: Iris

Voice A: This is Philippa Nye and Edie Neeson, and we are the interviewers. And we are interviewing Sharon Faler-Ackerlund and Iris Beisner Nichols. The date is the fourteenth of May and this is for the Cooper School Oral History Project.

A: Can you remember your first day at school?

D: Yes [reluctant but laughing]. Yes, I was not very happy. And I think a lot of kids weren’t either. You know, your first day of kindergarten is pretty traumatic. I remember the kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Huff. Is that who you had when you came [to Sharon]?

C: I think so.

D: Yes, and I remember when we had nap times, we each had our own little rug we would lie on. We rolled them up after naps and then put them in little cubby holes. And, you know, I had that rug up until just about 10 years ago. [group laughs] I used it! I used it in front of our washing machine. It's funny, it finally just wore out.

B: So did you bring it from home? Or did the school provide it?

D: Oh, brought it from home. We each brought our own rugs and had our names on them. I can still see that room now [looking at floor plan]. This is the first floor.

C: This would be the basement. One more up, isn't it?

D: This is the first floor.

A: There is no basement. But the front stairwells went up to the second floor, so I don't know if you think of it as the basement.

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C: Maybe. That's what it seemed like going down there.

A: Yeah, it's kind of dark in there.

D: The kindergarten room was not in the basement. So, that would have been it [pointing to the floor plan].

C: Maybe.

D: Yeah, I think so.

B: So, the northwest corner.

A: Yeah, room number ten on the plan.

D: Right.

A: And you stayed in the room all day?

C: I think we were in there all day. Do you remember [to Iris]? I don’t remember going home. Half days, you know, that didn’t start until later.

B: But they didn’t move you around?

D: No, everything was done in there. [The teacher’s] desk was up here. All these little cubby holes were here and desks -- no, I don't mean desks -- little tables were here. Isn’t that something how you start remembering?

C: I don’t remember that. Now, I came from Coe School in the middle of the kindergarten. So, I didn't start at the beginning of the year. I was very unhappy and very nervous because I didn’t know anybody. I can remember that I had a new pair of shoes. They were like a Dutch shoe -- like a clog. And I literally would kick people to keep them away from me [group laughs]. You know, because I didn’t know anybody. That lasted just a short time and then I made lots of friends.

D: During those years, you didn’t have preschool. So, every body started school when they were five. None of us had any pre-existing experience with any socializing with anyone our own age [other than immediate neighborhood kids] or projects or anything. So, that's why it was pretty traumatic for a lot of kids.

A: How many kids were there in your class?

C: You would kind of have to glance at that photo. That would kind of give you a feeling.

A: Looks like maybe forty?

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D: Was there just one kindergarten class? That, I don't remember. Maybe there were forty kids in the class but it didn't seem so --

C: If there were forty, we must have had two kindergarten classes. You know, that's going back a long way.

D: But I remember Mrs. Huff was also the music teacher. I remember her leading the choir, and I can still see her conducting with such seriousness. She was a pretty woman, at least to me as a five year-old. Very pretty. She had these square jaws and I remember they got so tight, very tight, when she was directing the class. And also, she was married and she was pregnant. She was carrying a baby during that year and we just thought that was so wonderful! This teacher carrying a baby. That was pretty neat. And if she had it during that year, I don’t remember. None of our other teachers were ever pregnant.

C: I don’t recall that but Iris does.

A: I wonder if they made them go on leave or something.

C: I am surprised because I didn’t think that they could --

D: During those years. That's right.

C: There were a lot of controls. These were the years , the war years, when we were little.

D: [19]42 is when we started kindergarten. Is that right? Yes.

C: We had the green shades at home -- so, we must have had them at school, too -- to darken the houses.

D: Oh, I'm sure they did.

B: Did Pearl Harbor happen while you were already in school or was this after Pearl Harbor?

D: It would have been after Pearl Harbor.

B: So, the war had started and the U.S. was in the war.

D: Right. I remember -- now, this doesn’t have anything to do with Cooper -- but when we'd drive down where Boeing Field is, the whole thing was covered with camouflage of a village of trees and cars. And it just fascinated me then. It was up there a long time, even after the war.

C: Do you remember the hot-air balloons -- helium balloons, whatever they were -- the big balloons [to Iris]? And they were out south of the school on Delridge somewhere? The military would use them to go up if a plane were coming through and try to intercept to block the enemy pilot’s vision. As kids, we can remember that. That’s what [Leon] and I were talking about.

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[“Barrage balloons, tethered by long cables, were used during World War II as a defense against air attack. Fifty-four balloons of the 303rd Balloon Barrage Battalion protected the Boeing Plant at Boeing Field. By most accounts, the balloons in locations around the world interfered with at least as many friendly aircraft as enemy aircraft.” www.historylink.org. Apparently it was the cables which interfered with the low flying spy planes as they could not detect the cable and would lose wings, whatever. London used the barrage balloons also. IN from her husband’s memory of studying the era.]

D: I don’t remember that.

A: They actually had pumped-up balloons?

C: They were kind of like the great big balloons that float around during Seafair. Those great, great big balloons of that type. The reason that they had them was to go up and, again, to camouflage an area.

B: Was there rationing?

C: Oh, yes.

A: Do you remember that affecting you?

D: No, I just remember that it was everyday life.

C: I remember it was so exciting if Dad came home with sugar. It was so exciting because they had the rations and -- Oh, look, they have sugar! I can remember the margarine and having to knead the margarine to put the color in it. So, instead of this white stuff, it became orange-y stuff.

D: A few years ago in some quiz program, they brought that out, and they asked this young woman what it was. She didn’t have the slightest idea what it was. But, man, did I feel old [laughing]! Yes, I can remember standing in the kitchen and Mother would let us [knead margarine].

C: I can remember hearing there was bubble gum at the local store -- I think it was Walker’s store -- which would be down Delridge just south of the school. Going down and standing in line to buy bubble gum because we just never got gum. Word passed around and then everybody stood in line. Then was just this big line of little kids.

D: Can you show me where that was? Like how far down Delridge?

[Groups looks at map.]

A: It wasn't where the yellow building is now, that used to be the teriyaki place two or three blocks south [at the corner of Delridge and Hudson Streets]?

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C: Might be. It’s a little square building that still looks like a store. It has apartments on the east side of the street.

A: Yes, that one just closed up.

D: See, Sharon lived down in here [south of Cooper] and we lived --

A: Just south of the golf course?

D: Just north of it.

C: The kids came from all over basically.

D: I used be able to -- and oftentimes did -- go home for lunch and then come back [to school]. Because our house was just right there. Boy, did I eat a lot of Campbell’s soups [for lunch]!

A: So, you were around Yancy?

D: No, I was just east of Yancy.

B: Do you remember your address?

D: Four Oh Two Seven [4027]... 25th Avenue Southwest.

C: And mine was Fifty Sixty-three [5063] 26th Southwest.

D: And our phone number was Avalon Oh Oh Eight Four [0084]. In our area, there were three places where we could buy groceries. There was one on 26th -- hmm, I can’t think of his name. Anyway, the other two were down on Delridge. There was [Gus’ grocery store]. He was Greek. Jack, the butcher, was right next door. And then on the other side of the grocery store was the drug store and old, grouchy George. Remember [to Sharon]?

C: Yes, I didn’t go there often but he was grumpy.

D: Gail [Schmitz-Crandall] used to get Green River sodas and I would get root beer floats.

C: We had Turner’s Drug Store up by us. Up Delridge.

A: Sounds like there were a lot of storefronts that aren’t there anymore.

D: Of course, they were very small. Very small. The one -- I can't think of his name -- he was Italian. That area, Youngstown, sometimes was called “Little Italy” because there were a lot of Italians that lived there because a lot of Italians worked at the steel mill. There were Seraphina’s. There were Bertoldi’s. There were Guntoli’s [also Scatina’s, Valentinetti’s]. Anyway, so I grew up learning to love Italian food. They were mostly congregated in here, kind

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of along in here [indicating area just south of steel mill between Avalon and the school]. A lot of them lived up on the hillside and the men worked at the steel mill [Bethlehem Steel Mill]. When we first moved to Seattle, we lived on Broadway. My father heard about work at the steel mill, so that's why we moved there [to West Seattle, Youngstown]. Shortly after that, they [sthe steel mill] went on strike and my father went to work at the shipyards. After the strike, most of the men came back to the steel mill, but my father didn't. He stayed at the shipyards.

C: My dad worked at the shipyards also.

D: My father retired from there. So, there were a lot of little, what you'd call 'Mom and Pop' grocery stores. And they were pretty small.

A: Do you think most people worked in the neighborhood who lived there? Did most people work at the steel mill or in the docks? Or did people actually commute?

D: I don’t remember that. It just seemed like an awful lot of them worked at the steel mill and the shipyards.

C: Seems like it was a blue-collar kind of area. The shipyard really provided a lot of jobs. In those days the women typically didn’t work; they were at home raising a family. I don’t recall knowing anyone that was, quote, a professional dad. Do you [to Iris]?

D: No, I really can’t. I can remember two of the families, girls that were in our class, their mothers worked only because -- did Beverly’s dad die?

C: Uh-huh.

D: And Rose, did her father die?

C: I don’t know. I know Beverly’s dad passed away.

D: So, Rose’s mother worked at the steel mill down on West Marginal Way. But, I forget --where did Beverly’s mother work?

C: Like the Bon Marche or something. She worked in a store.

D: Those are the only two I can remember whose -- well, Betty...

C: Betty, who?

D: Peasley.

C: Oh, I don't know what her dad did.

D: I don’t ever remember seeing him.

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C: In general terms, it was a blue-collar are/neighborhood.

A: Both of your families came to this area because of the jobs at the mill?

D: Yes.

A: What was the neighborhood around the school like? Were there a lot of houses? Was it pretty empty? Was the golf course there at the time?

C: Oh yes, the golf course was there.

D: We played there.

C: It was my backyard.

D: The golf course and Camp Long. Those were our backyards, that's where we played.

C: During school, now, we'd go across the street and play at the playfield. And I don’t recall adults there. When they rang the bell, we’d go back across the street. And we’d play in hills, and running, just over that whole thing.

A: So there was no one supervising you during breaks?

C: No, it’s not like today. Kids can’t go run and play. We had a great time. We had forts and camps and everything.

D: Down along the golf course, the bushes, the woods -- of course, there was Longfellow Creek. We played along the creek, now that I think of it.

C: Of course. We walked across it. Beyond this way, on 26th Southwest, there were all these --what do you call them? Buildings, low-income...

D: Oh, projects.

C: Yes, project houses.

A: Along Delridge?

C: No, it was along 26th.

D: They were all over.

C: And there was a whole cluster of them there, now torn down.

A: It wasn’t war housing? It was actually built as low-income housing?

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D: Wasn't it [initially] for the war [to Sharon]? And then it turned into low-income? Because I can remember the one kitty-corner from our house, when it closed and then nobody lived there anymore. [It stood empty for a long time before finally being torn down.]

C: There was quite a large cluster of them. There you had a blend of people. You had Black and a variety of people. Otherwise, we really didn’t have any people of color to speak of, in our class at least.

D: You never saw Asians, ever.

C: We had one girl in the second row there. The one that we figured out her name [to Iris].

D: Ardella Campbell

C: She was maybe Spanish. I don't know.

D: I thought she was North American Indian.

C: Maybe she was. Right there [pointing to the graduation photo, 2nd row, 2nd from left].We didn’t have people of color [at Cooper] but they did live close to me. So, they must have come along as kids younger than we were.

D: Remember Audrey and her brother -- Audrey Williams? They went to Cooper. I think they were ahead of us. And then, for a year or so, it seems like they were the only Blacks at West Seattle [High School]. But then, by the time we graduated, it seemed like it was --

C: They were accomplished, nice people.

D: Oh, Audrey was so nice. Remember, she was Girls’ Club president [at West Seattle High School]. She was very nice.

C: Which is different than the way the area is today.

A: Yes, it’s incredibly diverse now. Were there any other ethnic groups other than Italians that were predominant?

C: Weren’t there some Slavic people -- like Jenny -- up on Pigeon Point [to Iris]? I think so. And some people that made their living fishing.

D: Along the playfield here, there was Mrs. Matt [pointing to map, along west side of Delridge playfield—across the street]. She was Russian. My father used to do some work for her. Oh, she could bake some of the neatest things! But I don’t remember that there were any other Russian families around there.And, of course, Pigeon Point was kind of like an isolated community all its own up there for many, many years. It was like you were in a time warp up there.

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A: Did they have their own stores up there? Was it its own neighborhood?

D: Yes, that’s where Lyle Richardson lived.

C: Gibson. [He] was up there.

A: Why do you say time warp?

C: It still looks like it [did in the 30’s and 40’s], some of the stores that are still around. If you were to go back and look at some of those stores --

D: I drove around there just the other day and a lot of the same homes are there, especially going up the hill past the church that was the United Steelworkers for awhile [on Andover one block east of Delridge]. Well, where Beverly lived. Those homes have not changed since the [19]30s.

C: If you go down the other side off of West Marginal Way, go back in there, you can see those stores. That’s where Jenny lived. And some of those storefronts are still the same. I mean, those are [?] pictures.

B: This is in the Riverside neighborhood?

C: Yes. But those kids came to our school.

D: They walked up those stairs and then came down south from Pigeon Point into the back of the school.

C: Everybody walked to school, basically.

D: Oh, yes. Kids were not driven to school then.

C: It doesn’t matter how far it was. You would meet up with [other children] as you were walking.

A: Did a lot of people not drive in the neighborhood? The adults?

D: My mother didn’t drive.

C: My mom didn't drive either.

D: Gail’s mother didn’t drive either.

C: I guess the women did not drive but the men did. We didn’t have the buses, of course, that we have today.

D: Yes, we either walked or --

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C: A parent picked us up.

D: Although, Gail and I went to our music lessons on the bus. We caught it down on Spokane Street and went out to where the zoo is. We went a long way [or so it seemed at the time]. That bus [the #18] just took us straight out there.

C: It’s really fun to remember all of these things, I have to say. It helps to have somebody [else in the interview]. It would be even more helpful to have more people. You should announce it at the All-City Reunion and try to get more people.

A: What’s the All-City Reunion?

C: All-School, excuse me, All-School Reunion for West Seattle. Because most of these people went on to West Seattle High School. If you announced it there, you would probably get more recruits.

A: More than we could possibly handle!

C: They could type up what they remember.

A: Yes, I'll have to find out when that is.

C: First Weekend of June.

D: June 6th.I remember that this was our kindergarten room [pointing to map]. And the nurse’s office. This was the lunchroom-auditorium. This was the gym. The gym was in here, right [to Sharon]?

C: I think you’re right. I couldn't remember but I was trying to visualize it. Because we went outside from there.

A: There's a second sheet that's got the second part of this floor [showing Sharon and Iris].

C: Oh, yes. That's better.

D: Remember the year when you and Gail and Elaine sang? It was kind of a hymn [the song was “Whispering Hope”] and I played the piano. And you guys sang. I got so nervous that my legs started shaking and I couldn’t use the pedals [laughing]. Probably 7th or 8th [grade].

C: We did a lot of things on the stage. The stage was a friendly place as far as I’m concerned. I remember doing many things. I remember being in Macbeth, and the fire burning and cauldron bubbling. Bubble, bubble, bubble.

D: We had lots of plays. It seems like a lot of plays.

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C: We had a lot of creative things. We were fortunate to have a lot of creative activities.

D: And music! There were some pieces of classical music that we learned there that, to this day, every time I hear them, I think of Cooper. Pomp and Circumstance is one. And some others. I don’t think kids in grade school now get versed in classical music.

A: Probably not. They probably sing more folk songs.

C: We used to sing all of the World War I and World War II songs. In Mr.Goplerude’s class. I remember all of the words. That was singing. You sang those, you learned and they were patriotic songs. It was wonderful! We always had a Christmas pageant. Always, we had the story of Christmas. And each of us would participate in the various roles.

D: I think everybody in our class had a role of some kind, all participated.

C: And we had the costumes, such as they were.

D: Our parents helped that way.

A: To make the costumes?

D: Right.

C: What else? Oh! Then I remember the Mother-Daughter Tea. And this is interesting because, to me, Mother’s Day is only lilacs and dogwood. I need to see those two things and then it’s truly Mother’s Day. Because it’s what we decorated with. We had teas. It was really special.

D: School was very much a part of the community -- not only the children and the families -- but the whole community. I think, as Sharon said earlier, it was fun. School was a fun time and I can’t ever remember not liking to go to school. Except maybe when we were going to get our vaccinations [laughing].

C: That's what I was going to say! Do you remember getting your polio shot?

D: Oh, yes!

C: And also your smallpox shot. Then all of the issues that followed after that -- the swelling and the whole thing. You had to keep it dry for so long. And standing in line, dreading to get it but knowing you had to get the shots.

A: Because they were really painful?

C: Yes. Of course, the polio we couldn’t go swimming with. We couldn't be in the water.I was telling Edie earlier, the adjustment classes, have you heard about those?

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A: No.

C: Cooper had an area which was -- Iris can definitely find it on the map -- where we had people --

D: We don't have the basement but it was right below [looking at the map].

C: I thought it that it was right to the left of the office [on the second floor]. Anyway, there were classes for people that were handicapped, and they had various handicaps. We had some dwarves and we had some children that wore the shoe, the big shoe with the straps. They had those physical handicaps. Those are the two that I can recall. Plus, there must have been some that had the mental handicaps, too. But they must have had their own special classes there.

A: And they called them adjustment classes?

C: Yes, that’s what they were called. And maybe that’s why they called you from the dummy school when you went to [Cooper].

D: Yeah, that's where that came from.

A: Because not all schools had special education?

C: Basically, it was a different kind of special education. Now, I can’t remember them mixing with us too much. I think they stayed in their own area and they had their instructions [instructors?]. Because I think they [Cooper School staff] brought handicapped children in from other areas to the school. That didn’t last forever because in the whole eight years or nine years that we were there, they were not that whole length of time. So, maybe you'll find out in your archives somewhere.

A: Uh-huh. I'll have to look that up.

[Discussion of when Iris has to leave.]

D: I don't think they did.

B: What were some of the issues of the day in the neighborhood when you were in school there? Or issues in the school?

D: Issues other than the war? Keep the kids from running up in the attic [laughing]. We went up the stairs that go up in the attic. That’s where all the heating elements [were] [furnaces/boilers].

A: Right! It could be fun to play up there because there are all kinds of nooks and crannies.

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D: I remember, though, when the custodian would take a class through there. And he would explain everything -- how everything worked. But then there were times when we snuck up there and just ran around on our own.

C: I didn’t do that.

[Group laughs]

A: Were you a good child?

C: Apparently [wistfully]. She’s [Iris is] still inquisitive. She’ll go into somebody’s yard, peeking: “Hello, is anybody there?”

B: What kind of trouble could you get into in the attic?

D: I don’t remember that we got into any trouble up there. It’s just that we weren’t supposed to be up there on our own. I don’t remember that we ever got caught.

C: It seems like there were enough fun things to do, whether it be decorating the halls or whatever. I don’t recall problem issues. And then there was the war, of course. You would go home and people are tense. School was like an escape from all of that.

D: We not only had earthquake drills but air raid drills. We’d go out in the hallway and lie down, and put one arm this way [bent under our head] and the other hand would have to be on the back of our neck. We’d lie on our stomach. Those were air raid drills. And then the earthquake [drills], we got under our desk.

C: Didn’t we have a really big earthquake? We were not in school, it happened on another day. It was a pretty severe one.

D: Yes, I remember where I was. Gail and I were upstairs in our house doing something we weren’t supposed to be doing. We were jumping up and down on the bed.

C: The house started to shake --

D: The house started to shake and we thought, Oh my gosh! We’ve knocked the house down. All of a sudden, my mother called up the stairway. I can still remember the exact words: “Girls, it’s an earthquake. Get out of the house!” We had a narrow stairway and I remember doing this [?] all the way down the stairs. We ran out in the backyard and I still remember the ground going up and down.

C: It was a pretty severe one.

B: That must have been ‘49?

C: Yes.

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D: So, it must have been on a weekend. It was daytime.

C: It was daytime and I think it was a weekend because we were not in school. I remember it happening.

B: Or could you have been home from school for lunch?

C: No, because I was home, too, and I wouldn’t have been home for lunch.

It did damage [to the city] but it didn’t damage our school. We were able to go back to the school.

D: But that’s when Lafayette [Grade School on California Ave.] fell.

C: And that’s when some things slid down on Alki. Didn't some of the houses --

[Interruption. Gary, Iris’s husband, walks in. Iris and Sharon greet him.]

D: Yeah, and down on Spokane [St.], I can remember there was a lot of damage. But I don’t remember any damage to the school. Maybe some cracks here and there.

C: We were allowed to go back into the school.

D: We went back to school but, as I said, that’s when Lafayette fell. Also, one year -- let's see, what year would that have been? -- that blizzard --

C: Yes, I wrote that up. I was hoping it was still in grade school. [1950?]

D: We had a blizzard and my mother, having grown up in Wyoming, knew the signs. She came to school and got [my brother] Neil and I, and we had to walk single-file home.

C: It was snowing so hard and so deep and so quickly. It was really a big blizzard.

D: And weren’t there some kids that had to stay at Cooper overnight [to Sharon]?

C: Could be, I don't know. My dad came -- unheard of -- my dad came with the car to get me, to get my younger brother and I to take us home. That’s the only time I can remember Dad picking me up from school.We stayed home and then it was great fun! Because the snow drifts on the golf course, they were awesome. We had the whole golf course -- of course, there were no fences. And there were sleds everywhere. We just played, it must have been well over a week, it seems like.

D: It was so much fun.

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C: You'd come in so cold. You know, you were just frozen, and then you'd get something warm and change your gloves and go back out.

B: Because there was no school?

A: For the whole week?

C: The whole week. That’s a long time.

B: Extremely low temperatures and lots of snow.

A: How many feet of snow was it?

C: It was deep. What made it even deeper were the drifts. Of course, on the golf course, what a great place with the drifts. I lived up on 26th at the end of the golf course. Elaine and I would walk all the way up here [pointing to map], by where the clubhouse is. And then we would -- oh my gosh, it was such fun!

D: My brother and I would go up, and if he was in a good mood, he’d let me ride down with him. Because the more weight there was, the faster you went.

B: On a sled?

D: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

C: Elaine and I only fought about who would be on top and who would be steering.

D: That was fun. It really was, even though it was a bad time for [the city of] Seattle.

C: It was a hard time, slowed everything down. And it’s not like we had the great cars in those days. This was an old-fashioned kind of a car that Dad picked us up in.

D: And we did not have snow clothes. Just the clothes we wore every day. We didn’t have waterproof things. The only thing that was waterproof were boots.

C: We had wool, though. I had a wool something, a coat.

D: Wool coat, wool gloves. But boy, once those got wet -- it was wet. Very wet.

B: That was the January 1950’s storm? I looked all this stuff up!

C: That's wonderful. So we must have been in the 6th grade.

D: Fifth grade.

C: Well, this [photo] is dated [19]52.

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D: Sixth grade. Right.

C: What other questions do you have? We're deviating.

B: That's alright. You're hitting the questions anyway just in the course of what you're remembering.

A: Let’s talk about teachers.

C: Perfect.

A: Who was your favorite teacher?

C: Mrs. Dooley and Miss Rude.

D: Miss Rude, yeah. And Mrs. Dooley. They're the ones I remember the most.

C: Mrs. Dooley is in the picture [looking at photo]. She’s the tall --

D: She’s the one right there [2nd row, 2nd from right].

B: Why was she your favorite?

D: I don’t know. She was just nice.

C: She was completely comfortable with herself but she was creative. We did creative things. She was an excellent teacher to teach us whatever she was teaching us. Everybody wanted to be in her class.

D: [Perhaps the reason we remember her most was] she was our last teacher that [last 1951-52] year. She was our homeroom and our last teacher.

C: Maybe that’s it.

C: But she was nice.

D: She was truly a nice woman.

C: Oh, and we haven’t told you about our favorite class, which was -- I mean, one of our favorite classes -- which was our home ec[onomics].

D: Oh, yes!

C: We figured out what her name was. What was it, our teacher's name?

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D: Miss Seydell.

C: Miss Seydell, yes.

D: She’s not pictured here but her name was Miss Seydell.

C: The thing that I remember is the first thing that you had to sew was an apron. One of those criss-cross aprons in the back with rick-rack along the bottom and a tie.

D: And then we wore it when we cooked.

C: Exactly, and we cooked.

C & D: We canned [in unison]!

D: Tomatoes.

C: I don’t remember the tomatoes but I remember canning fruit cocktail.

D: Oh, really? Now, I don’t remember that.

C: Yes! It turned out really good, too. It was delicious.

D: We embroidered. We embroidered pillowcases and hand towels.

C: Maybe that’s where we brought in our knitting, embroidery and whatever. I couldn’t remember where we brought that in.And we had those towels where you pick up -- they're little squares --

D: You picked up the threads. I know it has a special name but I can’t think of it.

C: But it was fun. It was very functional. It was fun and we learned things that were --

D: One class we made cookies. Somebody took the dough and went [pretending to throw something in the air].

A: Did it come down?

D: I think in the next class it did.

[Group laughs]

D: I don’t remember who threw it up there.

C: The thing I can’t remember is did we have electric sewing machines or treadle machines [to Iris]? Because my mother had a treadle machine.

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D: Yes, my mother did, too.

C: It must have been treadle machines that we learned to sew on.

A: Did you have phys ed class?

D: Yeah. We had gym.

C: Yes, kind of. Not like gym per se.

D: I can remember the balance board and walking down that.

C: But we didn’t, like, play organized basketball or anything. My mother did but, this era of people, we didn’t do all of those things.

D: No basketball. Baseball, over at the park, we played baseball. But no soccer.

B: What things did you do in the gym?

D: Run around.

C: Good question. I never did like gym.

D: I didn't either. Wasn't there volleyball? Didn't we play volleyball?

C: I think I always found a way not to be there. I was very important [facetiously]. I would always go down and do something else.

D: A lot of times I got out of it because I had asthma. So, I could get out of it that way. But I wasn’t very well-coordinated.

C: Neither was I.

D: I didn’t enjoy it. Baseball was about as active as I got. And I didn’t even particularly care for that because I was always afraid the baseball was going to hit me.

C: I can’t even remember gym as a little girl, going into the gym [looking at photo]. You apparently can [to Iris]. I’d love to know if this was an addition.

D: Because I remember there was some type of competition. That’s why we were practicing on the balance bar.

C: The balance bars -- I do remember walking on those.

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D: There were other things, too. Do you remember during Christmas [to Sharon]? When we had choir? Everybody was in the choir.

[Tape cuts out briefly]

C: I do remember, now that you tell me that. But, in truth, everyone was in the choir. Everyone learned to sing and singing is important. They don’t do enough of this today, I don’t think. Let kids sing. And we had art work. Iris was always the best artist. I would stand and drool over your paintings as a little girl: “Look what she can do.”

D: Remember in the 6th grade? Miss Rude’s class --

C: Do you have pictures of her?

D: Well, this is when.... [flipping through photos] See, this is myself. That’s Rose Rennebohm [Philip Weigel, Neil Hoaglund]. The four of us were considered the artists in the class. We were studying South America at the time and each one of us took a special section or part of South America, and we illustrated -- we painted it. The blackboard was behind there. And it was butcher paper [we worked and painted on]. We used poster paint.

C: This is not an isolated event. It was often that something like this was done. This was part of learning and it’s a beautiful thing.

D: This is another photo and I was trying to put as many names as possible on it. As you can see, I had to make some corrections.

C: Oh, my goodness! This is 6th grade. Right?

D: Yeah, I think so.

A: You look so different in this versus the 6th [grade]. You look so proper.

D: And that was Campfire Girls [showing another photo]. That didn’t come out very good because you can’t see Gail. She was sitting right there. Some of us were in Campfire Girls and some of us were in Girl Scouts.

C: Look how tall I was. I had forgotten about this picture. Linda Ross?

D: You and Elaine were tall. And June [Taylor]. June was tall.

C: All that hair ...

B: What was the location of this picture in 6th grade?

D: Probably in the back [of the building]. Don’t you think [to Sharon]? That looks like the back side where we played, just right outside.

19

B: So, on the east side of the building?

D: I think so.

A: And this [photo] is up against that wall, that’s now the blue wall.

D: Why did they paint that blue?

C: What a shame. Can they sandblast it and bring it back to the original color?

A: What was it like then?

C: It was brick.

D: No, just cement.

B: Not cement. You probably meant masonry.

D: Yes, masonry. But why did they paint it blue?

A: Maybe people started to graffiti it and they decided to just cover it over. I don't know.

C: So, these [photos] are for them. Those two are for you guys. [Sorts through pictures and hands some to Philippa and Edie]

B: Did you have art pretty much every year in school?

D: Oh, yes. We had art class, everybody was involved. And we had art projects. Of course, the holidays were the most fun.

C: And you would illustrate all kinds of things. Then we had poetry contests. Remember? Writing poems and then drawing contests.

D: No, I did the drawing but I didn’t write poetry. I don’t remember the poetry. I couldn’t write then and I still can’t, so I don't remember it.

C: That [writing] I could do well, while you were doing your paintings.

D: My drawings, yes. I remember one year [in art class] we made little gardens. We had little plants. And those were entered in school-wide competition.

A: They were on the grounds of the school? Where?

D: They were on cookie trays [and placed in display cases in the hall].

20

A: Like a little terrarium.

D: Right, right. And we put moss and little plants [in it]. We designed it ourselves. It was kind of fun. And we had all-school art competitions. Now, one thing I cannot remember -- did we have science [to Sharon]?

C: As a subject by itself?

D: Yes. We had arithmetic.

C: We had good arithmetic teachers.

D: But science. Did we have science? Maybe we did and I just don’t remember.

C: I don't recall. We must have had some science since we both went on to college.

B: Maybe not in elementary school. Maybe once you got to high school is when you had science.

C: Play catch-up there? I think there must have been some kind of science but not necessarily a book.

D: No, it was probably just part of everything else.

C: Ask the boys that [question] when you interview them. They'll probably remember.

[Discussion of need for more interviews with male Cooper students]

B: What did you do at recess?

D: Recess was fun. We played.

B: What did you play?

D: We played squares. [Squares was a game played with a ball—tennis ball or golf ball.] We played jacks.

C: We played hopscotch. We played tag.

D: We played tag. We played marbles. Out where cars are now parked, we played out there. And there was dirt and gravel there, we could play marbles. That’s why all of us have those little dark marks on our knees, because of falling down on gravel.

A: [The school] had separate playcourts that were labeled girls and boys?

D: They did. That’s right.

21

A: So, did they actually segregate you?

D: Yes, now that I think of it. In fact, let's see where -- [looking at map] This was the girls [playcourt]. And the boys played over here. That was the girls bathroom, I remember that.

A: On the north side.

D: We played squares there. I remember the cement in the playcourt was so smooth. They were terrific. You could use golf balls because they bounced so nice.

C: I had forgotten but you’re absolutely right. It was segregated. And I don’t know why but it was before the playtime. When we went across the street for playtime, that wasn’t segregated.

D: The girls could play out here and then in here -- the boys were in the covered area here and out in here [pointing to map, north side of playshed and north lot were for girls, south side for boys]. Or the park.

C: I don’t remember going to the park that often. I just played in there [at the school] most of the time.

A: Do you remember the cafeteria? Did they actually cook lunch for kids?

C: Uh-huh.

A: So, people didn’t have to bring their own?

C: No. It smelled good in there every day.

A: Did you ever eat their food?

C: Yes, I'm sure. It was real food.

D: But it was a treat to be able to buy your lunch.

C: Oh, yes.

D: Because I usually either ate at home or brought my lunch. And then, once in a while, Mother gave me some money and I could buy my lunch!

C: Now, I didn’t buy mine very often because money was tight. Because, again, we’re talking about the war years. But the lunch itself didn’t cost much either.

D: I don’t know -- a dime? Twenty cents or something?

C: Well, that would be a lot.

22

D: It was probably a dime. But I can remember we had hamburgers and hot dogs. And probably other things, too. But, of course, in those years, to have a hot dog or a hamburger was a real treat. You didn’t go to McDonald’s or Jack in the Box. There weren't hamburger places around. Were there [to Sharon]? Were there any hamburger places?

C: Hey, not that I remember. The only places I went just were in that little circle I made.

D: The only places we went, like fast food, was fish and chips. Of course, Spuds was down by the Alki. Then, Johnson’s Fish & Chips in White Center.

C: What we did have was like going in and having an ice cream. That kind of thing.

B: Where would you go if you wanted to get an ice cream?

C: I’d go to Turner’s Drug Store, which was south of where I lived.

D: And we would go to George’s Drugstore.

C: She’d go to George’s at the other end because we lived at opposite ends.

A: There’s that building, it's called the Boysen building. It has Luna Park Cafe in it now. Do you know where that is? Was there anything there? It’s on the corner of Avalon and -- [pointing to map] Yeah, right down there.

D: Well, that was quite a way from the school. No, we never did anything there.

C: No.

B: Was there a hangout that most kids frequented?

D: Well, George’s, the drug store.

C: Didn’t we used to go to the movies in the 6th grade at the -- [to Iris]?

D: Up at the Admiral?

C: No, there was a field house a little ways up from the school. Do you remember? Maybe it was across. And they had nickel movies.

D: I do remember. Aaahhh! Right.

B: Where are you talking about?

23

C: I’m talking about across the street from the school. There used to be a field house building there. You know where that gym is? I think it’s a gym. It has that really nice, white glass window that was put in.

A: I’m looking at the 1960 photo. There was a building down there [in the southeast corner of the Playfield].

C: Yes, the corner of the -- whatever you'd call this -- the field house. And they had movies there. That would be the hangout, if there was a hangout, but it wasn't until we were like in the 6th grade, at least.

D: That's right. I had forgotten about that. I think where the library is now. Isn't there a library down there?

A: Well, the temporary library actually has moved. Southwest Youth and Family Services is what's in there now.

D: Because that’s where we had our Campfire Girl meetings.

B: Is this when there were still cottages there for the war workers? Or was this after that?

C: Cottages? On this side, there were cottage?

B: I thought that's what you said.

C: No, the cottages were on 26th. This is off of Delridge Way. The cottages, they were there until I was in junior high school at least, I think.

D: [Talking about Delridge playfield] The wading pool, tennis courts and the baseball fields [looking at map]. Our house was in the next block down here, north of the playfield. A lot of these houses are still there.

C: The same, yes.

A: It seems North Delridge Street was built up by then.

D: Another thing we did on Saturday afternoons, we went to the matinees at the Admiral Theater.

B: And how did you get there?

D: On the bus. Neil and I, my brother and I took the bus. I wish you could have seen the theater then. It was beautiful. I remember sitting there, with my head back looking up at the ceiling [looking up].

C: The signs of the zodiac all around.

24

D: All around, all over the ceiling. The walls were painted with sea creatures, mermaids and fish. The Admiral was one big theater at that time. It was so pretty. As half-time entertainment, they would have magicians. When they asked for volunteers, my brother Neil raised his hand—along with many other kids—he was chosen. Some of the boys, my brother included, wore sailor hats in those days [like Archie and Jughead in the comics]. Anyway the magician broke an egg into my brother’s hat. My brother just freaked out? But of course the egg actually wasn’t in the hat! They would have other types of entertainment. The moves were usually Westerns. You know, Roy Rogers, Gene Autrey, Hopalong Cassidy.

C: Tarzan.

D: Tarzan. And then that's the first place I saw The Mummy. We went to White Center, to the theater in White Center. On Roxbury, there was one. That’s where we went, for ten cents. And I did see these movies -- Bill and I, a sister-brother kind of thing again.

A: Sounds almost like a whole Vaudeville show. Not just a movie.

D: Oh, it was. [The theater] was a place where we wanted to go and I think parents were happy that we could go.

C: Yes, because this was before television. Going to a movie was a big deal.

D: Gee, we went up there a lot on Saturday afternoons. I don’t remember Gail going with us. It was just my brother and I.

A: Is Gail your sister?

D: No, she lived just about five houses down [north]. You know, would Gail’s sisters have gone to Cooper [to Sharon]?

C: Probably. Gail's somebody to contact, at least we could get her address.

B: What’s the last name?

D: Well, Gail was in our class. It was Schmitz. Now, Donna probably went to Cooper. But I don’t think Lois and Geri went, and they’re both gone now. They both have since passed away.

C: Gail would know that. Gail was down on -- [tape ends].

END OF AUDIOTAPE, SIDE A

C: It was such a creative, fun time because we didn't have television at all.

A: You were used to making your own fun.

25

C: We used to sit in front of the radio and listen to all of the various radio programs, which Iris is still doing.

D: I'm still listening to them [old-time radio programs on CD’s].

C: And even on Sunday, they'd read the funnies to you on the radio. You had to create images in your mind of so many things.

D: One thing I did, I loved paper dolls. I'd sit and I'd cut them out because I was home fairly often, sick with allergies and asthma. But I can remember dressing up all of my paper dolls and lining them up all the way around the living room. And that's what we did. As Sharon said, we didn't have TV.

C: You played and you created. So, when you ask what we did at recess, maybe some of that would happen. And then we had the presentations in front of the whole school. I remember lots of assemblies. I can't specifically remember what we did but there was always singing or dressing up or some kind of a play.

D: As I said before, every holiday and every month had some kind of a special time that we would have assembly and have costumes and plays.

C: It would break up the school day and everybody would go into the auditorium, which was a great thing.

D: Ohhh, I remember one thing --

C: What's that [teasing, imitating tone of voice]?

D: Well, I was trying to remember. Did we ever go on any field trips? We did.

C: The steel mill [Bethlehem Steel Mill].

D: The steel mill. But the one I really remember, to this day, was going to the Music Hall theater and listening to Stanley Chapple. Wasn't that his name? Yeah. I can still hear him, I can still see him. The way he would enunciate his words. It was very vivid to me going to those and sitting up in the -- one time we were on the main floor and the next time it was up in the balcony. I just loved him and it was all related to classical music.

A: The Music Hall isn't there any more, right? It's been torn down?

D: Yes, I just hated to see that place go.

A: It was one of the beautiful ones.

C: So ornate.

26

D: That and the steel mill. Where else [to Sharon]?

C: See, I don't recall going to the -- you maybe had a different teacher -- I don't recall going to the Music Hall. I'll have to think about that. But the steel mill, we all went down to that. That was incredible because they were actually making the big bars of steel. It was fire and bright.

D: The big ingots.

C: It was noisy. It was quite an impressive thing.

D: It really was.

B: And a lot of classmates parents worked there it sounds like, too?

D: Yes, they did.

C: You got an understanding of what they were doing. Which, I think, really was a wise thing to do because we realized that it wasn't a good place to play around. Stay away from all of the dangers there.

D: You know, when those ingots would traverse up this belt and drop into a railroad car, my brother, who was hard of hearing, could feel the vibration. And at night, those things would go Clunk! I can still hear those things going Clunk! Clunk! Sometimes when they would drop a big -- whatever they were called -- it would kind of shake the house. Scare Neil spitless because he thought there were monsters in the house, shaking the house.

A: Did it belch out a lot of smoke then? I wonder if it was more polluting than it is now.

D: Gosh, if it did, it wasn't --

A: You don't remember to have it make an impression on you.

D: Not on me, you'd have to ask my mother about that.

C: I think it's dirtier now than it was in those days. I don't know why. Maybe there wasn't that much going on around either. That would be a study for an environmentalist because they've done different things now that are a lot dirtier.

D: You'd have to ask our mothers and, of course, [Sharon’s mother has passed away and my mother is still alive, but she has Alzheimer’s.]

B: Was it hard to keep the clothes clean on the line?

D: Yes!

27

A: That would be a good indication.

D: Yes, because we didn't have dryers back then and everything was hung outside on the line.

C: Now, we have all of the dirty diesel fuel from all of the trucks down there. So, the air quality isn't as good as it might have been. But then in those days, they also had a lot more ships in.

B: Did your parents come to things at the school? You talked about the Mother-Daughter Tea.

D: In the evenings when we had things in the auditorium, yes, they did.

A: Did they have a PTA?

C: Yeah, and then the parent-teacher conference. Didn't we have those [to Iris]? You don't remember. Seems like we did in the upper grades.

D: Well, I remember that we had the open houses.

C: Open houses, that's what it was.

D: A lot of times the parents talked to the teachers then. And we always had special work out on our desks.

C: Our best work.

D: Our best work was out when we had open houses. We all went, everybody went. All the kids and their parents.

C: I think they did come to whatever events they were supposed to come to, as long as they were able. Again, my mom didn't drive. So, if it was in the daytime, it would be awkward for her to walk all the way to the school. A long journey.

D: We could walk because we lived just within a couple of blocks. Not even a couple blocks --block and a half. That's all it was from our house. One thing I remember from grade school that the kids can't do now, and that is we could all meet up and just go someplace. Ride our bikes, play down by the creek, roller skate, go swimming at Colman pool (in Lincoln Park). And our parents didn't have to worry about us. That's not to say that some kids didn't get hurt but not generally.

C: No, not really. I can only recall one person having an accident and he was on a boat -- down in the water and he died. That's the only thing I can remember. But we used to play up in Camp Long, you know. Up and down the paths for hours. Then it's time to come home, you're hungry or whatever. You'd go home and then you'd go back again.

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D: Like with Campfire Girls and selling Campfire mints. You would not let your daughter go out by herself to sell them now. I tromped all over Youngstown, Pigeon Point and the valley before you go up the hill to the college [South Seattle Community College] -- all by myself. And it was OK. Then, parents didn't worry. You couldn't do that now.

A: Now, it's more the parents selling the Girl Scout Cookies than the kids.

[Group laughs]

A: Or selling them to you at the office.

D: They didn't do things like that then. It was a different time, that's for sure. It was a good time, really, it was a good time to raise kids.

C: It was. It was a good time to grow up. I mean, it was a hard time because money was tight, very tight. That caused you to do other things.

D: But we didn't feel deprived as children. I never felt it. We ate a lot of tongue, a lot of liver. A lot of heart, I remember Mother cooking heart. But it was OK. What a treat it was when we went to the butcher shop and Jack gave us a wiener to eat. Oh, it was a real treat. He was a nice man.

C: Well, I can remember as a girl having the ice man come up and deliver the ice. He had his truck and he put this big -- he had on a leather vest -- and he put this great big chunk of ice with these big prongs to hold it in and bring it into the house and put it in the icebox.

D: The kids would go grab a piece of ice to suck on.

C: Yeah, a chunk to suck on. And we had a wooden coal stove in those days, too, that heated the water for the whole house, for baths, for cooking or whatever. And both sides, they had those [?]. Everybody had jobs to do, too, and then I suppose you had Liberty -- what do you call it? -- a garden. A Liberty Garden?

A: Which was your vegetable garden?

D: We did because people had them during the war.

C: You converted a big chunk of your yard to garden.

D: I think as soon as the war was over, my mother got rid of the garden!

C: We didn't. I don't know, ours was reduced in size but we still kept it.

A: Could you not get vegetables? Was it just, everybody was doing it?

D: There wasn't the money at the time to purchase them.

29

C: They [vegetables] weren't available and it was just something you were supposed to do. It was patriotic.

D: Down on Spokane Street -- oh, wait a minute, I guess it's gone -- it was a real treat to go to the Chelan Cafe for dinner. That was there then [as it is now. I don’t know what I meant here since the Chelan Café still exists and I believe in the same building.]. But right next door was the first Safeway store in [our immediate area].

A: Was on Spokane?

C: I forgot about that.

D: Yes and, boy, was it a treat to go because before it was all of these Mom and Pop stores. We had a big Safeway store.

C: A big store.

D: And Pop would drive my mother down there. I don't know what my father did while Mother got the groceries. But anyway, I remember that.

A: Chelan Cafe must be in a different building now. It doesn't look like a real old building.

D: No, same place. Same building.

B: So, it's been renovated.

A: Yeah, I think it's got stucco on it.

D: Across the old railroad [I don’t know what I meant by this], the trolley trestle still existed on Spokane Street, where the trolleys went at one time. I think they tore it down after the earthquake because it was too dangerous to leave. But that was another thing we did that we weren't supposed to do. We'd run up the stairs and run up and down the trolley tracks [there was a gate across the stairwell].

A: On the trolley tracks? Was it tall enough that you could get the boats underneath?

B: This was still on dry land.

A: This wasn't over where the West Seattle Bridge is now?

C: No, this was on the ground. I didn't live down there, so, I didn't get into all of this trouble that she did. [laughter]

D: There were a lot of taverns on Spokane Street.

30

C: And even on Delridge, there were some.

D: Yes, more than now. And just where Spokane Street merged into Admiral Way, there was a motel there. The Mar-lyn Hotel--motel, I mean. That's where it was originally.

B: The one that's up on Alaska Street now?

D: Yes.

B: For heaven's sake, I didn't know that.

D: The building where the Luna Cafe is, it was there then. I think it was a hotel.

C: It looks like it, the building itself. The outside part of it.

D: I think so, too. Any other questions? It's about ten minutes [before I have to go].

A: The kids who got in trouble then, what did they do to get in big, big trouble?

D: Well, this is before our time but there was a “Gulch Gang” and that's because Youngstown, at one time, was called The Gulch. There was a Gulch Gang and I don't remember any more what they did.

C: It was just a bunch of big guys that walked around, that's all I remember.

D: Yeah, if they really got into trouble, I don't know what it was. But they struck fear into our hearts [laughing].

A: The Gulch Gang will get you!

D: No, they were older [clarifying].

C: They were older. By the time we were in the 7th or 8th grade, that was gone. They were gone. Now, we're just known as the girls who were raised in The Gulch.

A: So, you got teased when you went on to other schools?

D: I didn't. Or if I did, I don't remember.

C: It's kind of an unusual thing because there's not very many of us around who lived and grew up around The Gulch. And I don't think you're really -- well, I guess you are still an extension of The Gulch [to Iris].

D: Because I moved up here [Admiral District] when I was thirteen. Then I took the bus down to Cooper to finish the 8th grade because I wanted to finish at Cooper. I can remember taking the bus down and transferring -- it's not there anymore -- but right at the southeast corner of

31

Pigeon Point (that's where the old West Seattle Bridge was). There was a gas station and a tavern. I would catch the bus down the hill [Admiral Way] and then would run across the street [Spokane St.] and catch the bus that would go down Delridge to Cooper.

B: You were coming from the Admiral District? Down Admiral Way on the bus?

D: Yes.

C: I can't remember anybody getting in any big trouble in our class. I just don't recall anything. Perhaps other classes. Or anyone getting severe punishment of any kind.

D: I don't either.

B: Did you have classes on other floors in the building?

D: Yes.

A: Was the library up on the third floor? Was it the big room that's -- [pulling out map]?

D: Do you remember the library [to Sharon]?

C: Not vividly, in my mind. Did we have a library?

D: I think so.

A: There was a double classroom up here. I think recently, that's what it was used for. I don't know if it was back then.

C: I don't have a vision of going physically to a library. But I know that we read all the time and, in the summer, the book mobile came.

D: Maybe the library wasn't there when we were there.

B: What things were on the second floor that you went to? And what things were on the third floor?

D: Home ec was up there.

B: On the second floor?

D: Yeah. Let's see [looking at map]. The third floor, is that what you mean? The top floor?Home ec was here, wasn't it [to Sharon]? It was in this part of the school [nw corner].

B: And what kind of kitchen equipment was there?

[Microphone noise muffles conversation]

32

C: Electric, it must have been. No gas. A refrigerator, we must have had. [aprons?]

A: With rickrack braid.

D: Miss Seydell's desk was in the middle of the room. And then we had all these cooking stations around.

C: Then we had the sewing stations. So, we had both in that room.

A: Do you remember what this room was used for? It's the one right inside the playcourt. It's really dark and, right now, it's carpeted. I don't know what it was then.

D: I wonder what it was.

A: It's a pretty big room. I wonder if it would be in the picture. Let me find out.

D: I'm not recalling anything.

C: No. And the office, where was the --

D: The office was right here.

C: And the nurse's room. Remember those little cots? You could lie down on them if you didn't feel good.

D: Yes.

A: Such a tiny room! Yeah, that's the playcourt, the girls' side.

D: This room would have been --

A: Just as you went in the door, yes.

C: Did the boys have a shop of any kind?

B: That's what I was going to ask. When you were in home ec, what were the boys doing?

C: This is a good question, we need to talk to some boys.

D: Yes, they did [have a shop].

C: I think they made things. They at least had a wood shop.

[Iris gets up to look for something]

33

C: She has something that her brother made. I think my brother made a chess board. So, that might be what that was.

[Iris comes back, carrying a box to hold string that resembled a birdhouse.]

D: My brother made this. Neil made that in shop when he was at Cooper. Now, where that room would have been -- where would it have been? Maybe it was there.

C: That's what I'm saying.

A: Great. Anything else we missed [shuffling through papers]?

B: Oh -- If you fell down, or if you got sick, who looked after you at the school?

D: The nurse.

B: You had a nurse at school?

C: Mrs. Ahrens?

A: OK, we're interviewing her. Melissa's interviewing her today, as a matter of fact.

C: How exciting! I'm so glad. I saw her down on the beach.

D: How old is she now?

A: I don't know. I think she's in her seventies.

C: She gets along just fine. She just clips along when she walks. She's still kind of hunched and looks just like she did.

D: Boy, she would have been in her twenties then.

B: So, you had a nurse at the school every day?

D: I don't know about that. But it seems like she was always there when we needed her.

C: And she wore a nurse's outfit. She was dressed like, just people. She had her hat and her nursing clothes.

D: The white, starched uniform.

C: And she was really nice.

D: I remember, she's the one that gave me an eye exam. Well, she checked our eyes. She gave me an eye exam and then sent a note home with me that told my parents I needed glasses.

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So, I got my first pair of glasses in the 6th grade.

C: And maybe a teacher would take care of something if you just scuffed your knee or whatever. But I think anything of any seriousness would go to the nurse.

D: I remember Miss [Florine] Bassett's room was either here or here [pointing to map].

C: That's so funny. She's well-named, I'm sorry to say [giggling].

B: Now, who's Miss Bassett?

D: She was one of our teachers.

B: What did she teach?

D: We were trying to remember. I think she taught English.

A: She looks a little stern.

D: She was. I don't ever remember that woman smiling.

[Iris speaks to husband Gary]

B: How was Copper School important to you? As you look back, what did you gain from being at school there?

D: My first thought is, the friends. The friendships that we made among all the students. And a lot of us are still -- we still know each other and we're still good friends. Some of us, unfortunately, have passed away.

C: I think the friendships. I would agree there, as the first thing. And then I loved the creativity that we were able to begin with. And it just grew and grew and grew. A feeling of togetherness. It's great to go to school for eight or nine years with the same people. It's a wonderful thing.

A: How many people were in the school, overall, while you were there?

D: I wouldn't have any idea. It's funny because I don't remember kids that were older than us. And I don't remember kids younger than us.

C: We really were a unit.

A: You played with your own classmates.

D: Yes, very much so. And we had parties. Remember all of the parties we had [at our respective homes] [to Sharon]? We all came to the parties.

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C: Another thing, they split us. They split us in half -- half went to Madison for the ninth grade and half went to Denny. That was a hard thing because we had been together all those years. But it was so exciting when we all re-met, all that were going to West Seattle. That was something because you were together all this time and hated to split up.

D: There were seven of us girls. For years afterward, every once in awhile, the seven of us would get together. We haven't done that for a long time. Although, Elaine is gone now, but --Joyce lives out of state. Patty lives out of state.

B: Did the two of you both go to Madison or were you split?

C: I went to Denny.

A: It was just for one year and then you all went to West Seattle?

C: Right. Just for the ninth grade. Because it used to be West Seattle had the ninth grade. As soon as they built Denny, they eliminated West Seattle's ninth grade. That was the reason.

D: Because when my brother went to West Seattle, he was there for all four years.

B: Your brother Neil was older than you are.

D: Yes, he was three years older. Neil passed away about thirty years ago.That doesn't seem possible...

A: It sounds like a great school.

D: I remember it with great affection.

C: So do I.

D: I really do. The music programs, the art, home ec. I loved home ec. And we learned other things – [we had a well-rounded education].

C: Academics. Basically, we were well-educated.

D: I think so.

[Discussion of other contacts to interview and photographs; explanation of releases]

END OF INTERVIEW OF SHARON FALER ACKERLUND AND IRIS BEINSER-NICHOLS ON MAY 14, 2003

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