Interview With Telekinetic Girl

8/9/2019 Interview With Telekinetic Girl

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Interview with Telekinetic Girl

David Wilcock Interviews "Mary"- a 15-Year Old Girl

with

Outrageous Telekinetic Abilities

By David Wilcock and "Mary" - Interviewed 11/26/1999

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/articles/214-interview-with-telekinetic-girl

D: All right. What we want to do is talk about what it is that makes you unique,and some of these abilities that you have. Hopefully, by you anonymously

sharing what you have been through, other people who have had the samething happen will be able to understand themselves better.

Or, maybe there is a reason for why you have been given this ability, andthere are other people who will understand more about life and about how theuniverse works by knowing that someone like you really exists; someone whocan do the things that you do.

Now the first statement that I will make, in order to have everyone who isgoing to read this interview understand what is going on, is this. You did notcontact me about getting this done, is that correct?

M: Yeah. (Laughs)

D: Right. Now what did happen was that through a mutual friend, I becameaware of you, and I was the one who wanted to interview you, correct?

M: Yes.

D: Right. Now the first thing that a skeptic is going to think is that you aremaking up these stories. They are going to think that since they can't believethat something like this could happen, it can't be the truth.

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Now before we go into the actual stories themselves, if someone was goingto say that to you, if you were going to tell them something about yourself toexplain this better, about where this is all going and how you fit into it and thefact that it is a genuine experience that you are having, what might you say?If someone was telling you, "Well, this sounds like it's all crazy to me."

M: Umm, I don't really know. I guess that there's no way that I could reallyprove it to them, but I have no reason to lie either, so that should be goodenough.

D: Right. In other words, you are not getting any money from doing this, andyour name is not being used, so there is no fame or anything like that. Youhave actually never even met me except on the telephone.

M: Yes.

D: So you're not trying to impress me, and we are not friends who have somesort of mutually agreed decision to be pulling some sort of a deception.

M: Nope.

D: Okay. With that in mind, why don't we go ahead and start from the younger years. The last time we spoke, which was actually the first time that we havespoken, I asked you to see if you could remember anything from when you

were a child.

So at this point what I really want to do is to let you talk as much as possible,because I think that the real truth and the proof that you are not just makingthis up is going to come from the honesty that you have, and the experiencesthat you have had which obviously range throughout your life.

So with that in mind, why don't you just start telling me what you feel youwant to say, and if I have any questions for you as you go along, then I willask them. Okay?

M: Well, what do you mean, what I want to say?

D: Well, let's start with a description of your earliest years, and some of thethings that went through your mind. (Like) if you had any dreams that wereunusual, or maybe the first time that you ever noticed that you had thisunusual ability.

M: Well, I had a couple of dreams when I was younger that came true, but I

haven't had any of that happen more recently. And the first time thathappened to me, I was actually in first grade, so I was very young.

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D: Okay.

M: But I didn't have a lot of interesting things happen to me like paranormalthings, you know. It's all been mostly after sixth grade.

D: Okay, so after sixth grade was the first time that you had some things startto happen that were decidedly not what contemporary science thinks of asbeing real.

M: Yeah. I had an out-of-body experience in sixth grade. (nervous laughter)

D: Okay. Why don't you describe what that was like, what happened to you,how far did you go, did you get scared, that type of thing.

M: Well, I was actually in the nurse's office at school, and I fell asleep. And

then I felt kind of like I woke up, and I was still in the room there, but I waslooking around it and I could even see myself. And then I got really, reallyscared.

D: When you say you could see yourself you mean that you saw your bodysleeping on the bed?

M: Mm hm.

D: Okay.

M: And then I just got really scared and I sort of woke up.

D: Right. That's pretty much what happened to me when I was five years old.I was able to see myself sleeping in bed, I floated feet first down the hallwayand started to go down the staircase.

I felt that I was being taken somewhere, and that was very frightening. Andwhen I got really scared, I woke up right afterwards, so we had very similar

experiences on that level.

Okay. So that was the first strange thing that happened. What would youconsider to be the next major strange thing that happened, and how old wereyou?

M: Hmm. Like in eighth grade, I started to have telekinetic experiences, likemy rings bending a lot and things moving around, like on my shelves andstuff.

D: Okay, well let's take that one at a time, because this is a big topic areanow. People who are going to read this interview don't know what you mean

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when you say a ring bending, so could you be a little bit more specific first onthe rings as to what that exactly means when you say that a ring is bending?

M: Okay. Well, like, they would sort of bend off my fingers. I wear adjustablerings mostly, and so they would just...

D: So these are not rings that have a solid metal band, three hundred andsixty degrees. These are rings that have a break in them at some point?

M: Yeah.

D: Okay.

M: And they were always metal. I don't know if that's important, but...

D: In other words, plastic rings did not bend?

M: No. I hardly wear any of them anymore.

D: I see. So you basically had metal rings, and the metal could be anythingfrom I guess gold to silver to pewter or whatever.

M: Actually, sterling silver.

D: Mostly sterling silver?

M: Mm hm.

D: Okay, did you have any gold rings?

M: No, I don't own any.

D: Okay. So we're talking about silver rings, and they have a slit in the backso that they can fit different sizes?

M: Mm hm, or if a spoon ring that just, you know, that's just a miniature spoonhandle that wraps around your finger.

D: Okay.

M: And that would get really loose to the point where it would fall off.

D: Well, that could just be because you are using your hands to move things.

M: Mm hm.

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D: Now, I mean I want you to prove me different, if there is somethingdifferent. I mean, how did you know that the ring hadn't just loosened up onits own?

M: Well, because if I am just sitting there and I am not doing anything, and

then my ring is actually in a different shape, that is kind of weird. You know,like when I know I haven't caught it on anything or anything like that.

D: And this isn't just something that happened once or twice.

M: No, it happened a couple... a bunch of times, actually. It happened on afairly regular basis.

D: Every week?

M: I don't know, probably like every couple of days.

D: Every couple of days. So in other words, you might just be sitting there,and you were wearing your ring and everything is fine and the ring seems tobe just on your finger like any other day, and then all of a sudden the ringwould bend open like a wishbone?

M: Kind of. It happened when I was upset mostly.

D: Okay. Now that's actually a very important piece, and you have read someof the literature on this to try to understand this better, right?

M: Uh, yeah, a little bit.

D: So when you say that you were upset, how were you upset specifically?

M: Angry, mostly.

D: Okay. Was a lot of that stuff related to issues in the family, or issues in

school, or with homework?

M: Mostly in school. I just get frustrated easily with my teachers and thingslike that. I just hate it.

D: What makes you get frustrated with your teachers? What happens inschool?

M: Well, they just make me do work that I don't really want to do. I bring in

books to class, and if I don't like what we're doing in class that day then I justsit in the back and read. And you know, I get in trouble a lot for stuff like that.

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D: If you wanted to, you could probably put your mind into your schoolwork. Iwould assume from the way that you are talking that you must be a veryhighly intelligent person. Have you had any IQ tests, or did you take the SATtest or anything like that?

M: I had an IQ test done in seventh grade, when they were testing me for learning disabilities. And I have a 140 IQ.

D: Now that's very high for someone your age. That's four standarddeviations above the mean, which is 100, so you are up in the ninety-eightpercentile, around there.

M: Mm hm.

D: Okay. So I do know a little bit about you. What are some of the things that

do interest you? Obviously school is not one of those things.

M: No. I like history a lot.

D: Okay.

M: I don't really have any specific interests...

D: What kinds of books do you bring into school to read if you don't like theclasses?

M: Normally history books...

D: Really!

M: Or classic novels, I kind of like.

D: Hmm! That's pretty interesting reading for a sixteen-year old.

M: Fifteen, actually, not sixteen yet.

D: Fifteen. Okay. Um, what are your favorite classic novels that you haveread?

M: I liked "Little Women" a lot.

D: Okay.

M: A lot of the novels that I have read, actually, are just really old ones that

aren't even in print any more, like 'A Self-Made Thief' and things that, youknow, you probably can't find anywhere.

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D: How did you find them?

M: Oh, I inherit lots of books. I used to live with my great grandmother, and Igot a whole bunch of her old books, and things like that. I found a bunch inmy barn.

D: Hmm. So you are intrigued with literature.

M: A little bit. But only more recently.

D: What were some of your interests before you started to read literature?

M: Mmm. Painting, artwork stuff, mostly.

D: Have you ever done music?

M: No. I'm not good at it.

D: (Laughs) Now, you said that sometimes the rings will bend open. Couldyou be a little more specific?

M: Hmm. Well, they will bend... uh, apart, sort of. I don't know...

D: Okay. Can you actually feel it bending apart on your finger as it happens,or do you just sort of notice that it happened afterwards?

M: I don't generally notice it. Like sometimes I do, but it usually doesn'thappen quickly. Like it happens really, really slowly, and I can watch itsprogression over a period of like maybe fifteen minutes.

D: But during those fifteen minutes you never actually moved your hand.

M: No. But sometimes it will happen just like when I am lying in bed, and youknow, things like that.

D: Right. Do the rings also get tighter? I remember you telling me that theydid sometimes before.

M: I said that happened to me once. My ring got really, really tight around mythumb, and it really hurt, actually. I couldn't get it off, and I had to put soap onit. It was terrible.

D: Wow. So except for that one example, the rings do not generally tighten;they will get looser.

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M: Yeah. Like on my spoon ring, the smaller end of it will just sort of come off and just keep rising off of my hand. It will go like a quarter of an inch off andsort of like straighten itself out.

D: Hmm. When you say spoon ring, you mean a ring that curls around, but is

one piece?

M: Mm hm.

D: And is it actually shaped like a spoon? Does it look like a spoon?

M: It is a spoon handle, you know... you've probably seen them.

D: Okay. I think I know what you are talking about.

M: And just the one end of it will come off.

D: So this will actually bend up as much as a quarter of an inch?

M: Mm hm.

D: But you said that this will happen slowly, like you could actually look over aperiod of fifteen minutes and watch it changing?

M: Mm hm. I keep looking down at it every once in a while.

D: Mm hm.

M: But that's the ring that bends the most, actually.

D: Now, has anybody else noticed this besides you?

M: Umm, I have had other people around when it has happened, but I try notto really let them notice it, you know. Because... I don't know...

D: Is there ever a time that it happens other than when you are getting angry,or is that basically what causes it?

M: Well, that is what seems to cause it mostly, but it will just happenrandomly, you know, without any real reason, I guess. I don't think that ithappens specifically any other time than that.

D: Okay. Now you mentioned some other things happening besides your rings bending, you mentioned other things moving.

M: Mm hm. Not as much, though.

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D: Okay. When they did happen, if you could, I would like you to maybe picka few examples of some of these things that have happened other than therings, and let's investigate a couple of those.

So why don't you give me an example of something else that has happened.

(Silence) Let's start with some of the older ones. I mean, what was the first,was there one time when you really first had a telekinesis other than your rings? Do you remember? (Silence)

M: (Laughs) Mmmm...

D: What sticks out in your memory? What do you remember about other things moving?

M: I remember, I had this radio from the fifties, and that has turned on a

couple times.

D: By itself.

M: Yeah.

D: While you were in the room with it?

M: Mm hm.

D: And what was your emotional state at the time? (Silence) Do youremember?

M: I don't really remember, but I remember that it scared me. (Laughs)

D: Yeah. Do you remember, was it on the same station that it was when youturned it off, or was it on a different station, or was it just static?

M: Umm, it was just static. I didn't really use it, someone got it for me and it

was just kind of sitting on my shelf.

D: But you had plugged it in.

M: No, it was a battery-powered one.

D: Oh! But it did have batteries?

M: Mm hm!

D: Okay. That's pretty interesting. What are some other examples of thingslike that that you remember specifically?

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M: I had, uh, some plates break once. I told you about that last time, I think.

D: Well, we need to review all those things. When you say plates breaking, doyou mean that you were touching them with your hands and they broke?

M: I was on the other side of the room.

D: Okay. What room was it?

M: The kitchen.

D: Okay.

M: I was facing away when it started happening. We have a cabinet where wekeep our plates, and the whole stack had tipped out a little bit and they were

just falling one after the other, and it woke up a couple people in my house. Itwas terrible.

D: Wow. When you say woke up, you mean you were awake late at night?

M: Yeah. I am kind of, well, not as bad as I used to be, but I used to havereally, really bad insomnia. I used to be up at, you know, for most of the nightsometimes.

D: Hmm. Okay. Now was the cabinet already open?

M: Mm hm!

D: Because you said this was inside the kitchen cabinets, right?

M: Yeah.

D: But the plates somehow by themselves moved out away from the cabinetto the edge and started to tip off one by one and shatter?

M: Mm hm! So, I went over and stopped them.

D: Now what happened with your parents? Did they think that you did this onpurpose? What did you have to tell them?

M: No, I just told them that they fell out of the cabinet. That was enough. I amfairly clumsy anyway, so they don't really care. I am always knocking thingsoff of tables and stuff. I break dishes constantly, so it was nothing that would

really surprise them.

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D: (Laughs) So they are not the type of parents to punish you extremely for doing something like that.

M: No. Most of our dishes are mismatched anyway, so...

D: Wow. See, in my family, breaking a dish was a pretty serious offense, andyou would get yelled at. (Laughs.) So if I ended up with, I mean how manyplates broke, like five?

M: Yeah, like five or six!

D: Yeah. I would be in big trouble. But were you upset when that happenedemotionally?

M: Well, not really.

D: Huh!

M: I was kind of, basically I just felt bad because I woke everybody up. But Idon't really remember how I felt beforehand, probably tired.

D: Hmm. So we have rings bending, and that story that you told me aboutschool, I want us to save that one for the end, with the staircase.

M: Okay.

D: But before we get into that, we have covered now your rings bending,which you say happens pretty much every couple of days as long as you arewearing them, and the bending is almost always outward in a wishbone typeof shape, or just an unfolding and a straightening.

M: Yeah.

D: Now this spoon ring that you are talking about, was that originally meant to

be straight and it was bent for the purposes of becoming a ring?

M: I think it was a ring, because it is way too small to have originally been aspoon.

D: Okay.

M: You know, I have never seen a spoon that small, so...

D: Right. So there is really no other explanation. I was thinking that maybe if it

had originally been a spoon, that if they bent it that way it could have metal

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fatigue that would make it easy for it to spring back into a straight shape, butthat doesn't seem to work either.

M: No, although I hadn't even thought of that, actually.

D: Yeah. Well, the biggest problem that I will encounter in terms of publishingthis transcript on my webpage is that skeptics are just going to automaticallydisbelieve what you are telling me.

And they are not going to need a reason, it is just that because it doesn't fit inwith their idea of what reality is, they are automatically going to discard it.

Now, how do you get along with other people your own age?

M: Not very well. I don't know, I just don't like them at all.

D: How do you see the events that are occurring on the planet at this time?When you look out at the planet, and then you think about yourself and if people were more like you, how would the planet be different?

M: There would be more environmental activists, and people would vote.

D: Hmm. How would people treat each other?

M: Probably better! People wouldn't lie.

D: Right.

M: That's probably my biggest problem with everyone.

D: Do you know if someone is lying just by a psychic type of feeling?

M: No. In fact, I get lied to a lot without realizing it. I try to be trusting of people, and it gets me in a lot of trouble, actually.

D: I understand. You have a hard time comprehending that anyone could bedeceptive.

M: Yeah, I could kind of understand it if I did something to them, but, I don'tknow...

D: People can be very hurtful, and it is quite amazing.

M: Yeah. I don't know.

D: You really don't fit in, because your mind and your spirit is in a wholedifferent place than most people's. That is a very common thing that the

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people who visit my website have felt, except that most of them are a lot older than you are and they have felt this sense of alienation all their life.

It shows up in many different ways, but generally speaking, if someone ishere to do good work on the planet, to help heal the planet, they are not going

to be well-liked by most people.

They are going to have a very difficult time feeling that they have a purposeand feeling that they have a reason for being here. That is a very, verycommonly seen thing.

So one of the things that we are trying to do with this interview is to show thatthis person who I am now speaking with, namely you, is capable of doingthings that many of us would consider to be a fantasy.

In other words, your life, to many people, they would consider this a fantasticgift to have that ability. Tell me a little bit about what the practical side of thisis. I mean, you don't really want to be telling people about this, right? It's notsomething that you are particularly proud of.

M: No, but... um... (Laughs)

D: Do you find it interesting, or?

M: Oh, it's fascinating! I would sort of like to be able to do it, you know if Itried.

D: To control it.

M: Yeah. I have only actually done it on purpose once, but...

D: Could you describe that for me?

M: Oh, well that was when, um, I actually moved my ring back to the shape

that it was originally.

D: Really!

M: Yeah. Because it is sort of a pain for me to have to go back and like fix itinto the right shape again, you know, and so...

D: What do you have to do?

M: Well, I have to like bend it really hard. I mean my rings are a little bit looser

than it used to be from me bending it all the time back into shape and

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everything. It is kind of a pain. Sometimes I have to get other people to do it,too.

D: Hmm. So there was one case where you were able to use your mind to getthe ring to bend back into its original shape.

M: Mm hm. I was actually on the phone with _____ when it happened.

D: Okay. I am going to delete the name from this.

M: I'm sorry. I didn't think that would matter.

D: That's all right. The person who you know is a person who I know, and thatis how I found out about you. But I am going to be posting a written transcriptof this, not an audio transcript anyway, so it's not a big deal.

So you were talking to our mutual friend when you did this. How did you goabout trying to make that happen? What did you do?

M: Well, I wasn't really trying too hard. I just sort of, um, I just touched it withone of my fingers, and then it went back into place. It was very cool, becauseI wanted it to, but it doesn't usually happen that way.

D: Did you have a lot of concentration?

M: No, not really.

D: So you basically put a little pressure on it with your finger, and it just bent?

M: Mm hm, which is really weird, because to get it back I really have to take itoff of my hand, you know, use both my hands to fix it.

D: I do find that interesting, because in the literature on spoon bending, whichis the most common way that people bend metal, they will get the spoon

"hot", or when it gets to the right point, there is a period of time that lasts for maybe one minute, sometimes less than thirty seconds, where for the brief period of time that it happens and the area of the spoon where they are doingit, which is usually between the stem and the bowl, they can bend it just like itis a piece of taffy.

So it is interesting that you would say the same thing, that basically when itwas in this bendable state, it was as though the matter phase of themolecules in the metal had changed, so that it could be moved with very little

pressure.

M: Mm hm. It's pretty cool!

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D: Yeah! Have you ever thought of any other experiments that you mightwant to try later on, that you might be able to use to do this with?

M: Not really.

D: You had mentioned the radio coming on by itself, you had mentionedplates falling out of the cabinet. Now before we get to the one that fascinatedme so much the last time that we spoke, are there any others that youremember, besides the rings themselves?

M: No, not really. I know other stuff happened, but I don't really think about ittoo much. It's just random stuff.

D: Okay. Is there a size limit to how things have moved? I mean, would youconsider the plates to be the largest object that has ever been moved, other than the example that we are about to go into?

M: Yeah.

D: Okay. Now, when you tell me this final example, I have already heard thisbefore. Now this is the one where people are really going to have a hard timebelieving. The reason why it fascinated me so much is that it shows me thatthe potentials are basically limitless.

In other words, if you had control over this ability, really the sky is the limit --quite literally.

So why don't you describe to me what happened, where you were, what your emotional state was like, and what the experience was like. Why don't you dothat for us now.

M: Okay. Well, it was in middle school, and I was late for English class.

D: And what grade was this?

M: Eighth.

D: And how old were you?

M: I was thirteen.

D: Okay. So this was about two years ago?

M: Mm hm.

D: So you were late for English class in middle school.

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M: Yeah. So I was running up the stairs to try to get there on time, because Ireally, really didn't want to get in trouble. And, so then I levitated up the stairspart way.

D: Okay. Now what was that like? In other words, you are running up the

staircase. How many stairs were left before the top of the staircase when thisstarted to happen?

M: I don't know when it started, because I wasn't paying that close of attention.

D: Okay. But you felt like you were still climbing the stairs, at first. So youdon't actually know when it started, because in your experience you were justclimbing the staircase.

M: Yeah, basically. Only I was kind of, I noticed it because I was moving alittle bit faster than my feet were going, if that makes any sense.

D: Oh, wow!

M: You know what I mean? And so, that was like, kind of why I noticed it.

D: So you wanted to go up those stairs so badly...

M: I must have!

D: ... that you started to... your body was actually moving faster. I mean, thefirst thing that would come to mind, that even a non-skeptical person wouldsay, is well, "Didn't you stop hearing the sound of your feet hit the staircase?"Was it a quiet, I mean was everybody else in class? Was it basically quiet?

M: Yeah, everybody else was in class, but... I don't know. I didn't really noticethat.

D: You didn't notice if the volume of your footsteps stopped?

M: Yeah, I didn't notice a sound difference at all.

D: Okay.

M: There must have been, but I just...

D: You were so focused on trying to get to class that that was the last thingyou were trying to think about.

M: Yeah, which is kind of crazy, but...

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D: So maybe if... I mean, how big of a staircase was it? Are we talking atypical, maybe like...

M: Typical, you know, you go up like eight stairs, and then there is thelanding, and then you go up another...

D: Had you already passed the landing?

M: Yeah.

D: So maybe there would be about twenty more stairs, twenty-five more stairsafter the landing.

M: Mmm, no. Like seven stairs after the landing, probably.

D: Oh, okay.

M: Yeah, because it was only a two-story building.

D: Okay, so this was a rather short staircase.

M: Mm hm. Yeah, average sized.

D: But you went up those seven... it happened after you hit the landing, is thatright?

M: Mm hm.

D: So you started to go up those seven stairs, but you were moving your legsand you were going up the stairs faster than your legs were moving.

M: Mm hm.

D: What happened at that point?

M: (Laughs) Well, I looked down, and my feet were off, a little bit off the stairs.

D: How many inches?

M: Like three or four.

D: Three or four inches. So basically you were hovering over the stairs. Howmany stairs were left on the staircase when this happened? Were you at thevery top of the stairs?

M: No, because I stumbled after that, and I fell on stairs. So I was probablylike four away from the top of the staircase.

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D: Okay, and you told me that there were only about seven in the wholestaircase.

M: Yeah. So I probably didn't go awfully far with it.

D: So then, it almost sounds to me like, you hit the landing, you are in such ahurry. You take another step forward, and you skip three stairs in one step,and suddenly notice that you are hovering. And at that point you got scared,and then basically the energy left you?

M: Yeah, and it was kind of like I tripped, you know. But I didn't get hurt or anything, so it was okay.

D: When you say you tripped, what do you mean?

M: Well, it was sort of like tripping, you know.

D: Right.

M: It was like I just fell.

D: But you fell because you... I mean...

M: I was freaked out!

D: Right. So basically you take this... I am assuming now that it is only one or two steps if you only went up about three stairs. But you moved too quick for how you were stepping, and you wanted to know what the heck was goingon, so you looked down.

How long were you looking down before this force field stopped? Justfractions of a second, or was it like one or two seconds long, or...

M: Umm, a couple seconds.

D: Really. So there was a distinct pause, where you could have said "Oneone thousand, two one thousand..."

M: Well, no. Probably just like two seconds, you know. It was quick, but...

D: But it was long enough that you were well aware that gravity was not ineffect for you at that moment.

M: Yeah.

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D: When you realized that this was happening, you got scared?

M: Mm hm!

D: And then once you got scared, it was like you fell?

M: Yeah.

D: But the fall would be almost like the force field just stopped.

M: Mm hm.

D: And then you couldn't, you didn't just fall standing up, you fell in a way thatlanded on the stairs.

M: Yeah...

D: Mm hm. Now, you must have thought about this a lot since that happened.I mean, what does that tell you about reality? What goes through your mindwhen you think about how something like that could have happened?

M: I don't know. I'd like to know how it happened, actually.

D: Right. It's pretty fascinating, isn't it?

M: It's very fascinating! There's no really good books written on it that I havefound, like that.

D: Well, I think I told you last time about a book called "The HolographicUniverse" by Michael Talbot. And in that book, he discussed DD Howe, whowas able to levitate himself and could put his arms or head into fire withoutgetting burned...

M: Yeah, you told me about that...

D: And his famous trick was that he would levitate an accordion inside of acage and have it play a song and dance around by itself. So, there are somevery incredible potentials that can be done with this.

And the literature seems to suggest that people who can already have ithappen by accident are the ones who are more apt to be able to learn tocontrol this.

M: But how do people do that? People like Uri Geller, I have always kind of

wondered about that.

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D: From what I can remember, from reading about spoon bending, there is adistinct process that is involved with making it happen. The process basicallyinvolves holding the spoon in your hand.

You can either hold it by the stem or by the bowl, and different people have

different preferences. But you want to hold your fingers over the part wherethe metal is the thinnest. There are two ways to do it.

One way is that you just do it with one hand, and you just rub those twofingers together where you are holding it.

The more common way is for people to hold it ether by the stem or the bowlwith the left hand, let's say, if they are right-handed, and then with the other hand they take their index finger, and they rub that index finger back and forthover the same area on the surface of the spoon. Now that is what your

physical hands are doing.

As far as what is going on in the mind, the spoon bending article that I readbasically said that you needed to focus all of your concentration between your eyebrows, having a great deal of focus there and just really being totallydetermined.

And at that point, when you get that real, real sharp focus of feeling an energycoming in through your eyebrows, you send that energy down your arms. And

you focus all of that concentration in that center between your eyebrows like alaser beam onto the spoon, at the area that you are touching it with your finger.

And then, with some people the spoon will actually bend by itself, just bycontinuing to move your finger like that. And from what I have heard, at thatpoint, when it starts to get a little bit gummy, you have anywhere between fiveto thirty seconds or more where you can basically just bend it and spin itaround, and do anything you want with it and it will be as malleable as sillyputty.

I have had experience myself with telekinesis in a different form, and it is acontrollable experiment that allows you to see how well you are doing. I willsay this both for you and for the readers of this interview.

This process involves taking a square piece of paper, just a regular ordinarypiece of paper, and it should be about no larger than three inches on a side.That is the maximum. In fact, it is a little bit better if it is a little bit under threeinches, like two and a half to three inches.

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Now you want to fold that paper across its four corners. You want to foldcorner to corner, so that you have an X, and the X is being drawn based onthose four corners, just like you did connect the dots.

Now when you fold it like that, it will actually form a little pyramid, like the one

you see in Egypt. You can fold it up into a pyramid shape. And then, there areany number of ways to do this, but the most typical way is that you want totake a typical cork or a piece of clay or anything that you can use that will stayin one place but you can stick something into. Typically it is a cork.

You will take a cork, and you will take a needle. You put the needle into thecork so that the point is facing upwards. You want to try to get that needle sothat it is as straight up and down as possible, so that it doesn't have a tilt or anything.

And then what you do, in some cases some people will reinforce the tip of that paper pyramid on the bottom with a little piece of tape, so that it doesn'tget cut by the needle as easily. But you want to stick that pyramid on top of the needle, so that right at the very point of it, that is where the needle istouching.

And then, once you have got that set up, you want to find yourself in a roomwhere there is very little ventilation -- you don't have any open windows. It isbest to be in a room where the door is closed and there is no heater or air

conditioner running.

M: Like a closet.

D: Well, you don't want to be in a small room, you want to be able to breathe.(Laughs) You know, basically you just don't want there to be a draft. But evenif there is a draft, generally the draft will not make the paper spin for anylength of time.

And if you try to breathe on it or blow on it to deliberately make it spin, you

can get it to spin a little bit but it will stop pretty quick.

Now the idea is that by nothing more than concentration, which has to bepretty intense concentration for most people, eventually you will start to getthis thing to move by itself. And it will start to spin in either a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction.

The psychic technique to do this pretty much involves just seeing it happenvery clearly in your mind's eye. Now let me flip the tape over here.

[tape flips]

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So the technique involves basically this. Nothing else seems to work exceptseeing it in your mind as though it were already spinning. When I have donethis before, I have literally sat there for an hour and seen nothing.

And then, it is only when you stop really caring about whether it moves any

more and just start to visualize it spinning in your mind. And you can evenmentally say the word "Spin" over and over again, or "Turn" or "Work." Ibelieve that Uri Geller used the word "Work."

M: Yeah.

D: You just keep repeating that word in your mind, whichever one youchoose, and it will spin by itself. Now in my case I did something prettyamazing. At antique shops and hobby shops, you can get these pieces of glass that are designed to encase old dolls, or clocks or things that arebasically not supposed to be exposed to the air.

And these glass cases are generally in the shape of a big tube, they aregenerally more than a foot tall, and they have a perfectly flat bottom.

You can take one of those hobby jars and put it over the spindle, and thatway it is impossible for it to move by any other force than that of the mind.Now in my case I did not have access to something like that.

All I did have access to was a honey jar. A peanut butter jar was not quitewide enough to allow the paper to spin properly. So I found a honey jar thatwas wide, and I had it lying there perfectly still. I never touched the table, Inever moved anything, there was no way that it could have a breeze.

I was concentrating on this thing, and it suddenly by itself spun fast, for like a180-degree turn, like half of one circle, and then it stopped just as quickly. It

just went whoop! It just spun really quick.

But unlike how inertia would work, where you would expect that it would slow

down, it just made a really sharp movement and then it stopped dead. Andthat was pretty much as far as I ever went.

I realized pretty quickly that because I am able to do these readings, when Igo into those trance states, that for my way of thinking it was sort of a wasteof my time to spend hours and hours waiting for one little piece of paper tomove. (Laughs)

Now I will share with you some of the things that have happened to me. Now

this is something that I haven't written about on my website very much. Butyou can benefit from this, and also my readers will.

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The most common anomaly that I have is with electromagnetic devices. Ican't tell you how many times I have blown light bulbs when I have gottenfrustrated.

M: I have a friend who does that a lot.

D: You do!

M: Yeah. She sets fire to things, too. Or she says that she has. I don't know if I believe her.

D: Huh. And she usually blows light bulbs when she gets upset aboutsomething?

M: Yeah. When she gets angry, then stuff will do that. She made the library in

our school black out once.

D: Really!

M: Yeah, it was kind of funny.

D: How did you know that it was her, and not just something random?

M: When she walked into the room, the lights all went out, the computers andeverything. And then when she walked out, they all came back on. It wasreally strange.

D: Interesting. There was one time where I was working at this resort hotelthat I can't really name, but it was in the area where I used to live. I waspunching out at the end of the day, and I was very upset about working therethat day.

I was very glad to be leaving, so I guess I had a swear word going throughmy mind at the exact time that I punched out. I was just really tired and

exhausted, and said, "Oh, I have got to get the blank out of here."

And right as I slid my card through the machine, ALL the power went out.

M: Whoa, cool!

D: Yeah. They had backup generators, and so the power kicked on a momentlater when I said, "Whoa, what is going on?" But that was a pretty extremeexample. I have had light bulbs blow on me many times.

I also cannot use cordless telephones, because when I did have a cordlesstelephone, I would be staying in one place, and I didn't even have to goanywhere. I could just be sitting in the same place with perfect reception, and

23



get really excited in a conversation and really enthusiastic. Usually it waswhen I was talking about something metaphysical like this.

And all of a sudden, it would just hang up. You would hear this click, and thephone would just be off the hook [with a dial tone.] It was like I would actually

scramble the radio waves coming out of the telephone.

And now, the electromagnetic anomalies usually happen most often with mycomputer. If I work too hard or it is too late at night and I am still trying to getsomething done, then there are any number of things that will happen to mycomputer that will cause it to be a problem. Most commonly, it crashes.

I will be writing in the word processor, and pushing myself too hard, andsuddenly everything just locks up and freezes. There is nothing that I can doexcept to turn off the whole computer and turn it back on again, which

obviously makes you run through scandisk and all that horrible stuff.

So that's one of the things that happens to me. I have also had experiencewhere sometimes my telephone jack has a little bit of static in it. And thestatic will be directly correlated with what my emotions are in the conversationthat I am having on the telephone.

In other words, if I start getting really frustrated with the person who I amtalking to, the static will just get overwhelming, just deafening noise, and I will

have to go and actually physically adjust the plug.

But there have been other times where the static goes nuts, and I just simplystop thinking that way and the static stops.

So those are some of the things that have happened to me. The two mostincredible examples that I have, I still haven't put them on the website, butmaybe I will put them side by side with this interview.

The first one involved a friend of mine who did something that must remain

personal to him. But it was something that he did that was very negative. Verynegative - something that would be extremely unfavorable to somebody in thehigher realms, or even somebody in this realm.

Now I didn't know this, but at almost the exact time of night that he did this, Iwoke up at night from a dream. But I didn't just wake up, and I will explainwhat I mean.

I was having a dream, and in the dream an old friend of mine, a different

friend, had discovered that he had can-openers for hands, sort of like CaptainHook in Peter Pan, you know. But this was both hands.

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Now the second example is also from a dream. In this dream, I was awarethat there was a woman at the bottom of a flight of stairs, and that she had alight that she was going to try to hit me with.

[Note: Again, note the interesting connections with a physical light - first in the

real world and then this time in the dream world.]

I also knew that the woman would be wearing a clown wig. Actually no, Iwasn't told that, but when I did see her she was wearing a clown wig. But thisother woman told me that if I got hit by the light, it would kill me, and I neededto be very careful.

So, it turned out that actually the light was very positive, and it was a part of

myself that was very negative that was going to be "dying." But in the dream Ididn't understand this; in the dream I was just fearing for my life.

[Note: Although I didn't want to get into the adult reasons for this dream in myconversation with Mary, it essentially had to do with releasing a part of myself that still had an unhealthy focus on sexuality as a mode of gratifying theappetites of the carnal self.

The woman who told me to avoid the light had just recently said that she

wanted to have quick and meaningless sex with me, and because of her physical attractiveness I was very, very excited. This "death of the appetiteself" did indeed transpire over the course of many dreams, some of which arelisted here on the site.]

So anyway, I had to walk through this hallway very fast, knowing that thiswoman was going to try to hit me with this light that might kill me.

And sure enough, as I walked through the hallway, I looked down at thebottom of this flight of stairs, and there is a woman with a clown wig, and sheis trying to aim a camera at me that has a big, giant flash bulb on it.

I managed to run past her, just barely. It was very tight, and I barely made it. Iwoke up, and I had my eyes open. I was in the room, and I was dictating thisdream into my tape recorder, which is what I do every morning.

With my eyes open, I said the following sentence: "I think I am getting to thehead of what this is all about." Now the idea there is the head. The very nextpart of the dream that I was about to talk about was when I had to cross the

26



top of the hallway, and I would see the woman at the bottom of the staircasewith the clown wig.

As soon as I said the sentence, "I think I am getting to the head of what this isall about," very spontaneously and suddenly the same exact clown wig, with

the rainbow colors, (and I do own one of those,) fell out of my closet from thetop shelf, by itself!

M: Oh!

D: Right in front of my eyes, I watched this thing fall, and it scared the heckout of me when it first happened. I was very freaked out. Now that was apretty amazing example.

My readings have also told me that I am not supposed to eat certain foods.

And one of those things is that I can have salmon, which is a certain kind of fish.

[Note: The readings have advised that if I am to work as hard as I do, both onthis computer and in doing psychic work for global readings as well asindividual clients, I must supplement fish protein into my diet or I will burn out.

And it does indeed improve my vital energy almost immediately -- either salmon or even moreso, raw sashimi-grade tuna. Sushi actually isn't good,

though, as it blends grains with meat, which is another dietetic no-no.

I do let myself have it sometimes anyway, as it is much less intense of a faux pas than other meats, dairy, sugar or white flour, which I almost never slipupon in any way.]

But I can only have [salmon] before a certain hour. If it is after about eighto'clock, then I am not really supposed to have anything really heavy, except

for maybe fruit. That is about the only thing that I am supposed to have after about eight or nine o'clock at night.

So, it was late, and I had been working on the computer. I came into thekitchen, and I thought to myself, "Oh, well, maybe I will have some of thissalmon anyway."

I reached out and literally at the exact second that my first fingertip touchedthe dish that had the salmon inside, in the other room I hear a crash.

I went back into the other room and realized that the headphones that I hadbeen using to transcribe my tapes with had fallen off of the place where I

27



usually keep them on the desk, and they never usually fall from there, butthey had fallen and hit the ground. They weren't damaged, but I definitely gotthe message.

M: Uh huh.

D: Now most recently, I have this book shelf in my house, and it is betweenthe kitchen and the bathroom. On the top shelf of the bookshelf, I had placedtwo pictures of me from when I was still very overweight, when I was your age.

[Note: These were loose photographs, not in frames of any kind, just thepaper.]

Because when I was fifteen, I was 225 pounds, so I was a big kid. Now, I hadpurchased a Vegan cake from the health food store as sort of a rare treat.

Although normally I do not have anything with sugar of any kind, thisparticular kind did not have any refined sugar, so I figured that maybe just thisonce it would be okay. [Yeah, right.]

So I was thinking about eating the cake, and I walked from the kitchen intothe bathroom as I was thinking this idea. By the time I got done going to thebathroom and I came back out, I had already made up my mind that I wasgoing to have the cake, and I didn't care whether they disliked it or not.

I walked back into the room, and I saw that one of these pictures was nowlying face down on the floor. And that is understandable enough, because thewind of walking past the bookcase could have knocked it off.

Although it hadn't happened before, it had been up there for several days andnothing had happened.

But then, all of a sudden I realized that the same exact picture that had beenin the front on the top shelf, about a foot over from the left-hand side, justsitting there with its back resting against the books, had now migrated four shelves down and was sitting in the exact same position, face up,forward, and a foot over from the left, but four shelves down.

And that blew my mind. That just happened actually three days ago, and thatwas one of the ones that just shows you without any shadow of a doubt thatthere is something very, very strange going on.

M: Mm hm.

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Now there was a time where I wasn't even trying to do it, where I would justhit it when I would get gas and it would happen anyway. But now I just keepthem aligned. So basically, the one on the bottom, which you are supposed tozero out every time you get gas, will just go up to 1000, at which point itreturns to zero.

So I left my house, and it was at "311" with a one in the tenths, and then theone on the top I believe was at "33" with three tenths. So, as I am drivingtowards her house, I am realizing that it is getting closer to being "3333" onthe bottom and "5555" on the top.

But since it had already been aligned when I left my house and I didn't takeany wrong turns, I said, "No, it is just impossible. There is no way that it couldbe exactly 22.2 miles between our two houses. That would just be crazy."

So, I didn't even bother to check the speedometer when I got to her house.Now, we [had a nice long dinner and] talked, and it seemed completelyrandom, but at a certain point it just felt right for me to leave.

M: Mm hm.

I left her house and went to my car. Before I even turned on my car, I lookedat the odometer and realized that it said "5555 - 3333." EXACTLY.

Now this was just last night. This is only the most recent one - I get these allthe time. I stick the key in the ignition, I turn it on, and the clock says 11:11.And it STAYED on 11:11 for a whole minute.

So, it wasn't just like in the middle of 11:11, it was at exactly the beginning.So my timing of leaving her house was down to within seconds of accuracy,and it was aligned with the odometer.

Now, once or twice when that happens, you think, "Okay, that is prettyinteresting." But I can't tell you how many times I have been driving, and I

seem to just drive on intuition. Sometimes I just say, "I don't need directions, Iknow where I am going," and I get a little bit lost.

But then I figure out where I am and I get back on track, and everything's fine.Well, there have been so many times where I have just happened to get lost,and I end up driving it back into my driveway.

And at the exact second that I pull into the driveway, the numbers areperfectly lined up. Now this has happened literally hundreds of times.

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Back when I lived in New York, I used to go to this place that was like ahealth food store. And there were some back roads near the health foodstore. Now this is going to blow your mind.

There were two different times in a row where there was a particular street

corner, and when I got to that street corner both times, not only was myodometer aligned with a bank of fours and fives, or whatever it was, fours andtwos, not only was my odometer was perfectly in alignment, but my clock hit it too. And it was at the exact same street corner both times!

Now there was another time where I looked at my odometer, and it had thedigits lined up. I looked at the clock and the clock digits were lined up.

At that exact second, it started pouring rain, and the thought that had justgone through my mind right before that was, "You know, I really shouldn't

be so fearful all the time. I really need to just have more trust in theuniverse that things are going to work out."

So I do feel that if anybody could understand what you are going through, itwould be me, because I have had a lot of these things happen all my life --and I had some very strange things happening when I was your age.

So, I do think that this is something that you can use. I do think that this issomething that you can make into a usable phenomenon. Because if you are

already doing what you are doing right now, you should be able to do more.

Now I can tell you that, but I can also tell you this. I do speak to higher levelsof spiritual beings, and that is why people are going to my website. Part of what I do is a telepathy with a higher intelligence, and I give them a vehicle bywhich they can speak to people.

Now they have told me, although I can't learn to do what you can do already,as it is not within my capability to be able to do that consciously, they havetold me that I can learn to have conscious control over electromagneticdevices.

(They tell me) that I can choose whether I want to have them mess up or not-- that I can direct that with my thoughts.

I have not figured out exactly how to do that. I have asked them, and theyhave given me some answers that are a little bit strange [and vague] that Idon't quite understand yet. So I haven't posted any of that on my website.

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So, I guess the last thing I really need to say, and then if you have anythingelse you want to say before we conclude the interview, that is fine. Maybe if you want to, we can talk off of the tape.

M: Okay.

D: The last thing that I wanted to say in this interview that we are recording isthat the main body of work that I am doing deals with a concept known asAscension, which is obviously referred to in the Bible and so forth.

It is the idea that the fundamental energy that makes up physical reality isrising to a higher vibration or a higher level of frequency. It is the same thingas if you are humming a certain note, and then you hum a higher note, andyou go from that lower note to a higher note in a smooth transition.

That is like rising the vibration, because that higher pitch means that the air isvibrating more times per second to make the sound than it would at the lower frequency. So there is energy that makes up our physical reality too, and thatenergy is rising.

When that energy does rise, there is supposed to be a point that is happeningrelatively soon, because of all the lore around 2000 and a variety of other reasons that we don't really need to get into.

But supposedly there is going to be a point that we will reach where there isno turning back. The energy has to snap into that higher level completely, andthat higher level is what we call the fourth dimension.

Now, once that happens, everyone should be able to do what you are doingright now and much, much more. And I believe that it is going to happen likethat very quickly.

It is hard to tell, because it changes. It is based on us, based on us as aplanet and whether we are ready. But it is going to happen at some point

relatively soon in our future, that is for certain.

So, I really consider you to be a front runner, as you are a person whoalready is developing these abilities in advance. And therefore, once thetransition has been made, you should be one of the first ones to really knowhow to use what your new abilities are going to be.

It is very exciting to me to hear your story, because I have read many thingsabout people who claim to have levitated, or bending metal or moving things

with their mind, but I have never actually been able to speak with one.

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So, I just want to say for the sake of my readers that I am convinced that youare not lying to me, that you are telling me the truth. And therefore, I consider this to be a pretty remarkable case. So if there is anything else that you wouldlike to say, now would be a good time to do it.

M: Okay. I remembered two things that you reminded me of when you weretalking about the paper spinning. But I didn't want to interrupt you, so I waswaiting. It was probably the most interesting thing that has happened to me,and the one that would be the most convincing.

D: Okay.

M: Have you ever seen, they are basically kids' toys. They are these lightbulb-shaped kids' things, and they have like a little windmill type of thinginside of it.

D: Oh, the radiometer, yeah!

M: Oh, I wasn't sure if you would know what I mean.

D: I had a radiometer, actually, that I kept on the kitchen windowsill. I got itwhen I was only six years old, and my mother still has it on her windowsill inFlorida. (Laughs)

[Note: A radiometer is a glass container with a vacuum inside of it, and aneedle that supports a "windmill" with four small fins. The fins are coloredwhite on one side and black on the other. When sunlight hits the radiometer,the white side of the fins repels the air molecules inside, but the black sideattracts them, since it absorbs the light instead of reflecting it.

The tiny air molecules hitting the black side actually provide enough "kick"with their bouncing action that the "windmill" will start to spin. And if you put itin a really bright window, it can get going very fast indeed. Straight heatdoesn't do it, as only light heat will affect the two sides of the fins

disproportionately.

This device would actually be an incredible opportunity to perform vacuum-sealed PK experiments as I previously described in this interview. If it moves,then you know it was PK, providing that it is in dim light and you didn't rockthe table.]

M: I loved mine.

D: Me too.

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M: But, it kind of got messed up. I woke up in the night one time, because Iheard this buzzing noise. It was at night, so there was no sunlight moving it.And it was spinning like CRAZY. And then it filled up about halfway withwater.

D: WHAT?

M: Yeah. And then it fell off the table that I had it on.

D: It filled up with WATER?

M: Yeah, about halfway with water.

D: But there is a vacuum inside, it is completely sealed!

M: I know!

D: Okay, and it fell off of the table, and what happened?

M: And then it just stopped, and that was it. I showed it to a few peopleafterwards, too.

D: Do you still have it?

M: No, I got rid of it.

[Note: David discovered at the end of the conversation that the black andwhite fins apparently dissolved partially from the action of the water, and itessentially became gray and cloudy on the inside, not at all pleasant lookingbut quite a mess.

There might have been a very small amount of mold spores in the smallamount of air still remaining inside, and this reacted with the water- whichmay or may not have been simple water at all, but possibly something with

more organic compounds inside of it.

Perhaps she had materialized it as a form of ectoplasm from her own bodyproteins. She didn't know any better, so she disposed of the murky mess, asit wasn't important to her at the time to keep it.]

D: Was it still airtight once the water was inside?

M: As far as I know!

D: But the water didn't disappear, it stayed in there.

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M: Mm hm. Yeah, and I showed it to people and everything.

D: Wow. So you have witnesses who saw this thing filled up halfway withwater.

M: Mm hm, when it was still sealed and everything.

D: Were they friends of yours, or family or both?

M: My mother, and a few of my friends.

D: Wow.

M: I ended up getting rid of it, though.

D: Well, I'll bet you regret that now. (laughs)

M: I sort of feel bad about that. I also got rid of my journal - I was looking for that. I thought I had saved pages of it, but I guess I got rid of those too, whenI was going through things.

D: Mmm. What was this journal?

M: What?

D: Remind me what this journal was, even though I know what you are talkingabout.

M: Oh, it was where I kept track of anything that happened to me. You know,like if I saw a clock, the time of day that it happened and details.

I would actually trace the shape of my ring and the different curves that theymade in there, and I had pictures of those. But I got rid of that too. Becausewhen I... I don't know. I just decided that I didn't really want much to do with it

any more, and I got rid of most of those things.

D: I understand. You mentioned that you remembered two things, and theradiometer story is quite amazing.

M: Now that is the more interesting one, because it is the one that, you know,has proof and stuff with it.

D: How long ago did that happen?

M: That happened a little over a year ago.

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D: Mmm. So you were about fourteen, okay. Well, that is pretty dramatic.What was the other example?

M: Well, it's one time where I was just drinking a glass of water. I was all done

with it, and so I had an empty glass with me, and then it filled up about aquarter of the way with water.

D: Right in front of your eyes?

M: I had actually walked across to the other side of the room, but no one elsewas around, and it filled up. And that was after the thing with the radiometer.

D: That's very interesting. So it appears that not only have you had an out of body experience, you have also bent metal, you have also levitated yourself

through an intense desire to move, and you have also performed action at adistance by breaking plates seemingly as though some other force was doingit.

You actually have also caused direct manifestations to happen into the thirddimension, in both cases being water.

M: Mm hm.

D: Mmm!

M: And I did another thing with my cousin. We used to, for a while, not beable to play cards with each other, because we knew what cards the other person had.

D: Oh, wow!

M: And it made it really difficult to play any games.

D: Even though you couldn't see the cards with your eyes.

M: Yeah. What I did was, we were in her bedroom and I turned out the lights.I stayed by the door and I cracked it open and left the hallway light open, so Icould see things.

But she was on the other side of the room facing away from me, and I wouldlook at pictures and try to get her to describe them to me. And she would getdetails, and it was really kind of cool. We used to do stuff like that.

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D: There was an interesting synchronicity. I don't know if you just heard thatclap of thunder in the background on my side, but at the exact second thatyou said "turned the hallway light on," there was a flash of lightning.

Now there has been a rainstorm going on while we have been talking, but

that was the first flash of lightning that I have seen. And it was at the exactsecond that you said "turn the light on!" So somebody is listening to us!

M: Mmm... (laughs)

D: Okay, that sort of distracted me. Now you were playing cards, and you leftthe door open and the door was open, and what happened?

M: No, we weren't playing cards then. But I had pictures of various things,and I was just trying to get her to say what was on them and most of the time

she was right. She could describe details to me. She always knew the maincolors of the pictures and things like that - so that was kind of cool.

D: Yeah. Most of my readers are already aware that when I was seven yearsold, I could guess numbers one through ten. My friends would gather into ahuddle and guess a number one through ten, and I would get it right everysingle time that they did it. And I could do it with images as well.

M: I could only do it with my cousin, though.

D: Hmm. You guys have some sort of an affinity with each other.

M: Sort of. We were like best friends for a while there.

D: Hmm. Now, you know that water has a very specific meaning, in terms of the spiritual language of dreams. Dreams do have their own language, andthere are certain things that we might think of as only being relevant to ushere in the third dimension, but in higher realms they have very, verysymbolic meanings. And water in dreams almost always means positive

spiritual energy.

So, I am wondering if maybe these times when you manifested water weretimes when you weren't angry and were in a better mood. Now in the firstcase with the Radiometer, that woke you up out of a sleep. So you obviouslyweren't frustrated or upset when that happened.

M: No.

D: But you also claim that you weren't frustrated or upset when you had theplates break, either.

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M: No, I don't think I was.

D: Okay. Did you have any particular feelings or emotions going through youwhen the glass of water filled up a quarter of the way?

M: I was thirsty!

D: Oh, you wanted to have more.

[Note: It is highly interesting that the key factor in many of her experiences isher emotions- either for better or for worse. She gets angry, her rings bendout or might even contract painfully. She stays up all night with insomnia,plates fall.

But on the other side, she wants water and boom- there it is. She wants to get

up the stairs faster, and boom- she skips a few with levitation. The RaMaterial says that one of the main characteristics of the fourth dimension isthat our thoughts become things instantly.

That is the main reason for the huge surge in cancer cases in the 20th

century, according to Ra, as we have been eating carcinogenic foods allalong. The diets that the doctors are discovering that we need to eat areexactly what the spiritual forces have been saying all along as beingnecessary for us to raise our vibrations.]

M: Yeah. So, that may have had something to do with it, but I could haveeasily gotten up.

D: Interesting! Right, it wasn't like you were out of water.

M: No. We have, uh, working faucets and everything. (Laughs)

D: Well, it is interesting, because there is a Biblical story about people on that journey when they had to pass the Red Sea and Moses parted the watersand stuff.

And one of the things that supposedly happened to them was that they hadthis food show up from heaven -- they called it Manna from heaven, and itwould show up spontaneously.

Now there is a quote from Jesus in John 14:12, where he says, "As I do thesethings, so shall you do them, and even greater things." And so, you know,one of the classic "Jesus tricks" as I call it is manifesting food and water, or turning water into wine.

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M: Yeah.

D: Now a lot of people think that Jesus was the only one who was supposedto be able to do this stuff. But all Jesus really did is to show us what we arecapable of. So it is very interesting that even after you thought about it for that

long, that it took me telling you some other stuff for you to remember thoseexamples.

M: Yeah, I don't really think about it as much anymore.

D: Well, that is a pretty remarkable case, because if you have witnesses... if you ever did really, really want to prove this or do research with a laboratoryor something, the fact that you do have witnesses who saw this sealed glasscontainer halfway filled with water, that is pretty amazing.

M: Yeah.

D: Now was it already filled with water when it was spinning?

M: No, it filled up with water after that.

D: Did you see it fill, or did it happen when you weren't looking?

M: I saw it.

D: You saw it fill up by itself. Wow. What did it look like? Did the water spin, or did it just move in sort of like a straight line as it went up?

M: It just went up like how a glass fills up.

D: But I mean was the water spinning like a whirlpool, or was it smooth on thetop?

M: No, it was pretty still.

D: Did it look like the water was coming in from the bottom? Like it waspumping up from the bottom?

M: Mm hm. But it happened really quick.

D: Was the Radiometer... oh, it happened really fast! I know that a radiometer has a sphere shape on the top. How far up that sphere? Did it get to like themiddle of that sphere before it stopped?

M: It didn't even make it up as far as the bottom of the sphere. It just, um...

D: Oh, so it was only like maybe the bottom.

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M: Yeah, like the bottom half. It didn't fill up like really, really far.

D: Right.

M: But if it is just like the bottom half, that is probably only like a third of the

inside itself.

D: Right, I understand. So in terms of the actual sphere shape on the top, itonly touched the bottom of it. Were the blades still spinning at that ferociousspeed when that was happening?

M: No, that stopped.

D: Oh! Well, that is pretty miraculous. And the fact that you have witnessesdefinitely makes it look more like you are not just making this up, although I

believe that you are telling me the truth anyway, because that is a prettyunique little story that is not...

M: Yeah, that's probably the best one.

D: Well, it is pretty hard to top levitating up a staircase, but... that's agood one, too. Have you ever read about Sai Baba?

M: I have heard the name, but I haven't really read anything.

D: Okay. Well, he has control over this type of stuff. One of the famous thingsthat he does is he manifests a sacred ash called Vibuti. He can manifestbasically any small thing that somebody asks him for -- he can get it. Andthere are many stories of him doing that.

There are stories of him actually disappearing and reappearing somewhereelse, like actually teleporting himself. All kinds of stuff like that.

So, this is something that if you ever really wanted to pursue it, it would be

interesting to see what you could do if you started to deliberately meditateand concentrate to try to make it happen.

M: I never tried, though.

D: Yeah, because it might work, and then it might scare you, right?

M: Well, sort of, that, and whenever I do try to, it doesn't work. So, I don'tgenerally.

D: Oh, so you get frustrated if it doesn't work, and you don't want to tryanymore.

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M: (Laughs) I have sort of a short attention span!

D: (Laughs) Yeah! I understand.

Well, I think that is a good point for us to end the interview portion. We can

talk a little bit more if you want to, but I am going to shut the tape off now.

I want to thank you, and is there any last message that you would like to givefor the people who will be reading this, because there might be thousands of them reading this?

M: (Sighs) ... I don't know... I can't think of anything now.

D: Well, I thank you for sharing this, and I am sure that your story is going toinspire many people -- it has definitely inspired me.

And I just want to say once more that I do applaud your sincerity and I haveno doubt in my mind that you are telling me the truth and that you are notsimply making up some sort of a fantasy because you feel like you need to doit to make yourself feel better.

There is a lot more integrity going on than that, because the way that thefriend that you and I both have found out about this was that you just casuallymentioned it in conversation. Or no, wasn't it that your rings bent while youwere around this person?

M: No.

D: Oh, you didn't wear them when...

M: Not that I really remember.

D: Right. But you didn't tell this person for a long time.

M: No, not for a while.

D: Right. Because this is something that you are not quite comfortable about.

M: No, I don't particularly tell people.

D: Right. Well okay, I want to thank you, and it will be interesting to see whatpeople will say. Now if people have specific messages that they want me toget to you or something, would you like me to get them to you?

M: Oh, sure, that would be wonderful!

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D: Okay, I will do that. Okay, thank you very much, and I will stop the taperight now.

D: Okay, we have now resumed recording, because she has justremembered something else. But we have very little time left on the tape, so

go ahead!

M: Okay. Well, it may not be very important, but when my father was fiveyears old, he told everyone that he had been abducted by aliens!

D: Really!

M: And I mean, that is kind of strange for someone... that would have been in1959.

D: Back in 1959 your father said that.

M: Mm hm!

D: Wow, that goes all the way back to the time of the Betty and Barney Hillincident.

M: Yeah? I have never heard of that.

D: Well, that is the original abduction that supposedly happened. This African-

American couple were both hypnotized separately, and they bothremembered the same thing, and their stories correlated with each other.

M: Oh yeah! I have heard that.

D: What did your father say? That they had the big heads and the almond-shaped eyes?

M: Now I don't know what he said. I forgot to talk to my aunt about that.

Because she is older than him, so she can remember some of that.

But I just thought that was interesting, because my father was one of the mosthonest people in the world too, and I don't think that he would make upsomething like that.

D: Right.

M: So I thought that that, I don't know if that is important or anything.

D: Definitely very important. Very important.

M: It's strange.

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D: Because generally this type of stuff happens in families. And that does adda tremendous, well not tremendous but a very interesting new layer and anew twist on the story. So thank you!

M: Okay.

D: All right, because we are about to run out of tape space. If you find out anymore information about that, let me know. If you get any more specifics fromyour aunt as to what he saw or what he experienced. Your father, is he stillalive?

M: No, he died years ago. He had brain cancer.

D: Wow. Okay, well, that's the end of the tape.

[tape cuts off]

(Note 11/28/99: EXACTLY 4:44 a.m. after transcribing and rereading to exactly this point!)


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Interview With Telekinetic Girl