The Tesla Switch

Use for the Tesla Switch

Dear Peter, Since you and Bedini have history you might know a thing or two about the 'Tesla Switch' and alike systems. I think these systems might be a good addition for these No-back emf motor designs especially since they can be driven like dc low ohmic induction loads. Not much input is lost in the form of heat and such. For those who do not know what I am talking about read: THE TESLA SWITCH And http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D3.pdf Start at page 25 (to 36) So this post is kind of a double post. On the one hand I see the Tesla Switch having huge advantages, but on the other hand, except for the Bedini page there is no real info to be found anywhere about this system... Why? well Peter what is your take on the Tesla Switch, and in case Bedini is reading this, please feel free to jump in. Thanks! Steven

#2 (permalink) 08-23-2007, 06:30 PM

Peter Lindemann Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 84 My Profile

4 Battery Switching Circuit

Quote:

Originally Posted by nali2001 Dear Peter, Since you and Bedini have history you might know a thing or two about the 'Tesla Switch' and alike systems. I think these systems might be a good addition for these No-back emf motor designsespecially since they can be driven like dc low ohmic induction loads. Not much input is lost in the form of heat and such. For those who do not know what I am talking about read: THE TESLA SWITCH And http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D3.pdf Start at page 25 (to 36)

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So this post is kind of a double post. On the one hand I see the Tesla Switch having huge advantages, but on the other hand, except for the Bedini page there is no real info to be found anywhere about this system... Why? well Peter what is your take on the Tesla Switch, and in case Bedini is reading this, please feel free to jump in. Thanks! Steven

Steven, As can be seen in the first file, the original circuit was developed by Ronald Brandt. The 1983 date of the Brandt circuit pre-dates John's work on this system. Ron's circuits used mechanical contacters as switches, but apparently worked quite well, as long as the contacters lasted. John was the first to adapt this circuit to solid-state switching, using the SG 1524 dual flip-flop functions and bipolar transistors as the switches. So, exactly why this is called the Tesla Switch is beyond me. John has told me that his "cigar box" unit ran a small electric motor for more than 6 months without discharging the batteries AT ALL. He also told me that the original working model was smashed by a "guest" in his shop who was infuriated by its operation, while John was out of the room. At this point, he decided not to rebuild it. I know John personally, and have no reason to doubt this report. Obviously, the voltage drops in the transistors and diodes present a CONSTANT loss during operation, not to mention the energy dissipated at the load. Therefore, the system defies all standard explanations and energy use equations. The batteries apparently stay charged and run loads simultaneously for a reason that is not conventional. Since Ronald Brandt has run a car on this system, and John Bedini has run small motors on miniaturized version, it seems reasonable to assume it is worthy of more study by experimenters. I have a copy of a lengthy report, written by Eike Mueller, dated September 3, 1984 that discusses tests of this system. Perhaps John would be willing to comment further on this at some point. But maybe he won't. After all, it was John's demonstration of this system at the Tesla Conference in 1984 that precipitated the events that culminated in having his life threatened if he continued his work on it. I know of no one who has had their life threatened for working on a technology that didn't work! Peter

#3 (permalink) 08-23-2007, 08:46 PM

nali2001 Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 27 My Profile

Hi Peter and thanks for the reply.

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Yeah the name Tesla Switch is not too clear. Some seem to say/claim that Tesla used this 4 battery flipping system in his remote controlled boat or something. Now then I must say that at this point I’m not all that concerned about the over unity effect due to the faster switching and electron thing. But the simplest version alone will be very interesting. And could indeed be used in electric vehicles and the like. To put it in laymen’s terms: Normally you run a load to a 'ground' which stays 0v all the time so, it is an infinite sink. But in this situation you replace this ground with a charging battery. So the first 12v battery powers the load until the second battery has reached 6v. So both batteries are now at 6v. But connected in series they are still 12v combined. Now you can discharge that 12v in series batteries AGAIN trough a load to a depleted battery. Until that one also reached 6v. Some test at overunity.com have indicated that you can expect at least 50% more work form the same initial battery charge. One thing I also find somewhat hart to understand is how does this Tesla Switch battery swapping technique behave when the load converts all the ‘electricity’ to something else like heat. Does that mean the secondary battery will not get a charge at all? And how does the energy balance look like when we use this battery swapping technique for powering a low ohm, low heat loss (no back emf) motor, which runs a generator? Now I don’t want to sound greedy (lol) but I would be very interested in that report you say you have. Well any additional info on this system for that matter. So if you want to share it please do. I understand that it probably is not in ‘a digital form’ right now. So instead of typing the whole report over. You could also just take pictures of the pages. So anyway if you feel like sharing you can just mail them to me (or post them here) It will be very much appreciated. One thing that always baffles me is the fact that every time things in this field needs to be re-tried. I mean there are so many ‘old’ Ideas like this 'Tesla Switch' floating around and then again except for a few schematics no additional information or replications are to be found. Same with Ecklin stuff and such. Thanks and kind regards. Steven

#4 (permalink) 08-24-2007, 12:09 AM

Jetijs Junior Member

Join Date: Aug 2007Posts: 3 My Profile

Hi all I'm new here, but I already have attempted to make the Tesla switch. At that time I did not know much about radiant energy and Bedini motors as I do now, that's why I did not have much success. My circuit looked like this:

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http://www.bildez.lv/bildes/jetijs/s...1187198552.gif The batteries were 1.3Ah lead/acid type. The oscilator is not shown in this circuit. Slodze=Load. I tried a small car bulb (1 Ohm) as a load. The bulb was powered through a bridge rectifier (not shown in the circuit) First I tried the switch at a low frequency, about 10Hz, everything seemed fine, the transistors got a little warm and the car bulb lighted up, but not as bright as when in direct connection to a battery. Then I increased the frequency to about 250Hz. The bulb brightness remained the same, the transistors felt a little warmer. I measured 4.3VDc across the bulb and 0.77Amps. But after few hours the the light of the bulb turned weaker and slowly the amperage across the bulb dropped too. Now I know, that there are some problems with this circuit. First of all as Rick Friedrich said, I should have used NPN transistors instead of PNP because PNPs allow current through constantly, and NPN only when the trigger Base is gated. Also the load was too big for these batteries. The load should be such that the batteries are discharged in the c/20 rate. That means that the load should draw only 65mA. This is because a larger current draw would cause heating in the batteries and that is not good. Now I will try out the circuit with the NPN transistors: http://www.bildez.lv/bildes/jetijs/s...1187931758.gif Here's the complete circuit with the oscillator part. http://www.bildez.lv/bildes/jetijs/s...1187931936.gif Maybe it will help someone. Or maybe someone has anything to add? Edit: I read somewhere that the name "Tesla switch" is due to the fact, that Nikola Tesla gave this information to a friend. Then later this friend of Tesla shared his knowledge with John Bedini. From here this circuit is called a Tesla switch I do not know if that is how it actually happened. Thanks, Jetijs

Last edited by Jetijs : 08-24-2007 at 12:13 AM.

#5 (permalink) 08-24-2007, 07:00 PM

Peter Lindemann Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 84 My Profile

Report on 4 Battery Switcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by nali2001 Hi Peter and thanks for the reply.

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Now I don’t want to sound greedy (lol) but I would be very interested in that report you say you have. Well any additional info on this system for that matter. So if you want to share it please do. I understand that it probably is not in ‘a digital form’ right now. So instead of typing the whole report over. You could also just take pictures of the pages. So anyway if you feel like sharing you can just mail them to me (or post them here) It will be very much appreciated. Thanks and kind regards. Steven

Steven, I spoke with John this morning concerning your request for a copy of the Eike Mueller Report. He has no problem with me posting it, but also said he would not be commenting on it in this forum, or anywhere else. He said he agrees with us, that Ron Brandt showed him the circuit and that he doesn't even know why it was called the Tesla Switch. I'll scan the document into a .pdf file over the weekend and get Aaron to show me how to post it. Peter

#6 (permalink) 08-24-2007, 08:47 PM

nali2001 Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 27 My Profile

Many thanks in advance for that document Peter (and John) the info and effort is much appreciated! I know I am being a pain (lol) but when you ever feel like releasing your old Flux motor or/and generator documentation/notes (you know, the "fluxgate generator thingy") Please let me know! Many thanks! Kind regards Steven

#7 (permalink) 08-26-2007, 08:27 PM

Peter Lindemann Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 84 My Profile

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Report on 4 Battery Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by nali2001 Many thanks in advance for that document Peter (and John) the info and effort is much appreciated! I know I am being a pain (lol) but when you ever feel like releasing your old Flux motor or/and generator documentation/notes (you know, the "fluxgate generator thingy") Please let me know! Many thanks! Kind regards Steven

Steven, I scanned the report and sent it over to Aaron. He will post it in this forum so everyone can download it. Its now in .pdf format. I scanned the file exactly as I have it. The font it was originally printed in is a little hard to read, and the pictures are pretty dark, being a copy of a copy. Some pages are not straight, as I have made no effort to clean it up. When I spoke to John, he told me that getting the circuit to work is a real pain. The circuit controller must be able to produce a perfect 50%-50% flip-flop. The "cigar box" unit used Ni-Cad batteries, which is why they are labeled as 5 volts (4 x 1.25 volts each). The final working model used the 2N5885 transistor instead of the 2N3055H as listed. The control chip was the SG 3524 instead of the SG 3984 as listed. The system switched slowly, at no more that 20 CPS. That's it. Have fun. Peter

#8 (permalink) 08-27-2007, 02:32 AM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

Report on Visit to John Bedini - Report on 4 Battery Switch

Here is the document, it is available at John Bedini | Radiant Energy Report on Visit to John Bedini - Report on 4 Battery Switch

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Thank you Peter for making this happen!

#9 (permalink) 08-27-2007, 08:56 PM

nali2001 Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 27 My Profile

Thanks

Thank you Peter, John and Aaron for making the document public. Is Eike Mueller still with us? I mean it would be interesting to have him comment on this as well? Hopefully people will do the experiments. It is not really that hard to build a simple proof of concept relay based switching system. And it would allow for energy ‘recycling’ at the very least. And so provide a way to get better battery efficiency for virtually every application. I mean you could use it to run a 90% efficient motor and recharge the second battery even if it is only a little, which would normally be send back to the same battery to destroy the dipole. (Correct me if I don’t make sense) So with this ‘recycling’ you can make nearly every motor into an o.u device when you look at the total energy balance. Although I must say that some things like radiated heat and back emf are tricky to include. I mean is radiated head from a bulb ‘lost’ or not? Wouldn’t that mean that a 100% efficient heating element will not put a charge into the second battery at all? I always find it amazing that such ‘simple’ devices are kind of ‘unheard of’ and untouched by next to all researchers. Hopefully this information will spark some interest and research again (after like 20+ years?) Again thanks for the info! It is much appreciated! Kind regards Steven

#10 (permalink) 08-28-2007, 11:20 AM

nali2001 Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 27 My Profile

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Isn’t it funny how things work out sometimes?

Isn’t it funny how things work out sometimes? I happen to get hold of the same document but of better quality than perhaps Peters own original. Check it out. http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Mueller.pdf Kind regards, Steven

#11 (permalink) 08-28-2007, 04:31 PM

Peter Lindemann Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 84 My Profile

Need ID to access

Quote:

Originally Posted by nali2001 Isn’t it funny how things work out sometimes? I happen to get hold of the same document but of better quality than perhaps Peters own original. Check it out. http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Mueller.pdf Kind regards, Steven

Steven, The link doesn't work if you don't have a log-in ID. See if you can download the document into your computer and then have Aaron upload the new version here. Peter

#12 (permalink) 08-28-2007, 04:50 PM

nali2001 Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 27 My Profile

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Strange

Strange. It does work fine here. Maybe: right mouse click > Save link/target as" might work for your? Another link: http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/Mueller.pdf I must admit that viewing this document online in a web browser does not always work. So downloading it first will do the trick. If this still does not work for you I can sent it to Aeron. But I don't have his mail address. Steven

#13 (permalink) 08-29-2007, 09:45 AM

nali2001 Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 27 My Profile

Overlapping switching contacts?

Hi Peter. I have a question about the timing wheel disk (on page 14) http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Overlap.jpg I can understand that John says 50-50 switching is important. But unless it is some kind of mistake I do not really understand why the top part of the switching disk is in fact overlapping, and the lower part is not? Any ideas? Thanks and Kind regards, Steven

#14 (permalink) 08-30-2007, 12:57 AM

Peter Lindemann Member

Join Date: Apr 2007Posts: 84 My Profile

Circuit Variations.....

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nali2001 Hi Peter. I have a question about the timing wheel disk (on page 14) http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Overlap.jpg I can understand that John says 50-50 switching is important. But unless it is some kind of mistake I do not really understand why the top part of the switching disk is in fact overlapping, and the lower part is not? Any ideas? Thanks and Kind regards, Steven

Steven, In any investigation of this type, the best way to approach it is to DECIDE in your own mind what the operating principle of the system is. THEN, see if the information supports your hypothesis. If your hypothesis is correct, the evidence should support it. Such as, John's LAST statement that a 50%-50% switching is necessary for the system to work. If this is taken as the working hypothesis, then the drawing of the mechanical commutator with one side over-lapping and one side not should be interpreted as an error. If you think that all of the batteries can attain an EQUAL charge condition when the switching is UNEQUAL, then believe whatever you want. Am I getting through to you????? Trust yourself! You have the ability to think it through. Peter

04-26-2007, 11:55 PM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

Bedini SG Simplified

Bedini SG discussion here. For single or multi coil and/or multi strand. The simplified version to charge batts without the cap setup.

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#2 (permalink) 05-09-2007, 10:35 PM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

John Bedini | Radiant Energy

John Bedini | Radiant Energy

#3 (permalink) 06-14-2007, 12:52 AM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

Aaron's SG

A Bedini circuit I built with a reel to reel motor John gave me a few years ago. Pretty cool and interesting SG. Very fast and very efficient. Charges batts pretty good. I never measured efficiency. If I put 1 batt bank on the output or 4, it doesn't really change the input it doesn't care. Of course can grab the shaft to increase the load and the input does not increase. 5000 rpm it draws 1 amp avg 10,000 rpm it draws only 1/5 of an amp avg Video clip: http://www.esmhome.org/library/aaron...i/aaron-sg.wmv

#4 (permalink) 06-18-2007, 08:38 AM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

youtube video

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John Bedini | Radiant Energy can watch the reel to reel motor video on youtube.

#5 (permalink) 08-17-2007, 04:14 AM

Shamus Junior Member

Join Date: Jul 2007Location: Earth Posts: 22 My Profile

Some musings...

@Kevin: I would strongly encourage you to do it an hour at a time if you have to, and please post progress reports! And yes, I've gotten bit by the high voltage coming off the power coil more than once! Well, since I'm kinda stuck at the moment waiting for magnet wire to arrive before I can finish building the current machine, I thought I'd post a few thoughts on it--even though only one coil is present, it's got a diode hanging off the collector, so it counts in my opinion. The schematic below shows its current state. Yes, curiosity got the better of me and I've tried charging 1.5V AA cells as part of a 6V battery. It seems to work somewhat, though I haven't done any rigorous testing. I did notice that the rotor slows down when there's a battery in the charge position. Interesting! I know that you probably won't get optimum results using these types of cells, but it seems to me that if the negentropy process that Tom and John talk about in the provisional patent application listed in Free Energy Generation is correct, then it should be possible to charge these kinds of cells as well. Just a thought. Another interesting thing that I've seen (er, heard) with this machine is what I call 'the hum'. One time, before I soldered the components in place, I had to re-hookup the parts because they had wiggled loose. Once I had them connected back together and connected power (without a charging battery hooked up) I noticed a fairly loud hum coming out of the coil! The coil wasn't heating up and the neither was the transistor, but it pushed the magnets of the rotor out of the way so that the coil was in the middle of two magnets. Interesting! The hum stopped immediately as I disconnected the battery. After I connected power again, the hum started again. This time, I tried to see if there was anything coming off the diode but the meter reading was inconclusive. Strangest of all, when I connected a battery to the charging position the hum stopped as well. Curiouser and curiouser... After I disconnected the charge battery the hum didn't come back, but it did come back a while later. It seems to be a bit capricious, this hum. I did notice that it was much easier to get the rotor spinning up to speed when the coil was humming versus when it wasn't. It seems these machines are full of surprises. And maybe I didn't notice it before, but it seems that there's also a faint hum in the coil of the first machine that I built as well. A question comes to mind about this circuit In the PPA in Free Energy Generation it's stressed that

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the radiant energy capture circuit has to be separated from the drive circuit, but in the circuit below, this is clearly not the case. Also, I have strong reason to believe that the circuit below works well (I can elaborate if necessary ), although some changes in the resistor are probably needed for optimum operation. It could be that I'm missing something obvious--after all, I'm still experimenting and learning this stuff first hand and trying to make sense of it all. Attached Images

bedini-ssg-small.png (19.3 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by Shamus : 08-17-2007 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Forget something/typos...

#6 (permalink) 08-17-2007, 04:27 AM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

Shamus SG

Very Cool! Schematic looks good. Very nice bare bones ssg. Those alkaline batts aren't the best but they can be charged at least a few times from my experience before having to throw them away. I'd recommend using some 6v and/or 12v gel cell batts...the black body type you can get at radio shack or elsewhere. Those are good to learn with. The hum you discovered is the circuit is self oscillating at high frequency. Most likely this is what is happening If you have a scope on it you will see something like this pic

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I played with my roller skate motor for months before doing anything else. Not even trying to charge anything with it. Will learn a lot more if you just get obsessed about the bare basic model first without doing anything else. In my opinion.

#7 (permalink) 08-26-2007, 01:20 PM

Shamus Junior Member

Join Date: Jul 2007Location: Earth Posts: 22 My Profile

Preliminary results with big battery

@Aaron: Thanks for the clarification. I think I've learned what I need to from the SG by itself--needless to say, there's probably more secrets in that thing than I've found so far. It continues to surprise me, especially in light of how simple it appears. I'm sure you're probably aware of John Bedini's sense of urgency in wanting people to learn the technology (as expressed in this message). I have every reason to believe that he's right, and mostly from what I've been seeing from independent sources. The time is short. And I'm sure you'd agree that this isn't the place to discuss such things. At any rate, I've started some preliminary load testing, and the data so far is encouraging. Under the first load test, the battery took about 45 minutes to discharge down to 12.00V (under a 25W load running from a voltage inverter). Charging took about 30 hours to get it up to 13.46V (have to retune the thing for a PSU). Running another load test, the battery took about 60 minutes to discharge down to 12.00V under the same load. So there's something very interesting going on here. I'll post more details as testing progresses.

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#8 (permalink) 08-26-2007, 10:42 PM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

conditioning batts

Hi Shamus, Sounds like great progress. The capacity of your battery is growing as you condition them. You are literally changing the properties of the battery. Should grow in capacity and take less and less time to charge up to the same level. John has known the urgency for years but it isn't until recent times that people are paying attention. With gas prices going up and insane politics, people are starting to pay attention. The Bedini technology and water fuel cell technology are my two favorite ones to focus on.

#9 (permalink) 08-30-2007, 04:16 PM

Shamus Junior Member

Join Date: Jul 2007Location: Earth Posts: 22 My Profile

Latest results

Well, I'm in round four of charging and things haven't been coming along as well as I had hoped. I'm not going to stop here until I see a solid trend, but the preliminaries thus far are not encouraging. That and the fact that it takes about 30-40 hours for one charge cycle! Load times are staying fairly flat so far. Here's the numbers so far:

Code: Charge T Chg End V Ld St V Load T -------- --------- ------- ------ 12.85 00:44 32:50 13.46 13.34 00:57 29:48 13.47 13.36 00:48 40:20 13.89 13.52 01:03

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This is a regular old Radio Shack lead-acid battery, 12V/7Ah. I'm discharging it into a 350W inverter and powering a 25W bulb for load testing. It's strange: Once it gets up to around 13.30V the charging seems to hit a wall--only gaining 0.01V per hour. Now I've read where John Bedini says that the number of turns on the coil isn't important, nor its size. Maybe I'm getting some cross-conduction on my transistor (since it's 2N3055, which John considers junk)? I don't know how to check for that. John also says that you want the highest resistance on the base so that you get the highest RPM for the lowest current. Currently the RPM on my circuit is fairly high, and the base resistance is right around 1100 ohm. Anyway, I'll post more results as they slooooowly come in. NOTE: The missing data in the graph around hours 9-10 and 16-22 are due to an outside obligation at the time and the need for sleep. Attached Images

charge-cycle-4-partial.jpg (31.6 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by Shamus : 08-30-2007 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Missing info... :-P

#10 (permalink) 08-31-2007, 09:53 AM

Aaron Energetic Scientist

Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington StatePosts: 1,037 My Profile

will speed up

Hi Shamus, on these smaller systems, the charging will be much slower, but usually after many rounds of conditioning, the charging back up will get quicker and quicker. A 5 coil setup (4 power 1 trigger) of about 18 guage 100 feet long each is for more practical application but before doing that in my opinion...getting the whole personality of the motor you have down is very crucial, in my opinion.