Katherine Jackson V AEG Live, Transcripts of Video depo of Dr Paul Early June 19th & June 24th 2013

7/27/2019 Katherine Jackson V AEG Live, Transcripts of Video depo of Dr Paul Early June 19th & June 24th 2013

1/22

KATHERINE JACKSON V AEG LIVE June 19th& 24th 2013

#r Paul Early(Additi!n S"ei#$i%t' Vide! )e"!%iti!n

+* MR! +O*-E%

.! )*+ E#*$e, !u$d !u, "$e#%e, %t#te !u* -u$$ n#.e #nd %"e$$ !u* $#%t n#.e -!* the *e!*d+

/! / n#.e i% #u$ Hen* E#*$e, EARLE+

.! And %i*, #*e !u # .edi#$ d!t!*

/! I #.+

.! And, %i*, d! !u unde*%t#nd !u h#e 5een hi*ed 5 the !*"!*#ti!n AEG Lie #nd %!.e !- it% e6eutie% #nd *e$#ted!."#nie% t! te%ti- he*e #7#in%t K#the*ine J#8%!n #nd /ih#e$ J#8%!n% th*ee hi$d*en
http://youtu.be/oCT82lv-JJImailto:[email protected]


2/22

/! / unde*%t#ndin7 i% I :#% hi*ed 5 the $#: -i*., 5ut th#t% the $!%e%t I #n !.e t! the., e%+

.! Hi*ed 5 the $#: -i*. -!* the de-end#nt%

/! e%+

.! ;h#t #*e the #$$ed

/! O/e$en #nd /e*%+

.! And h!: .uh #*e the "#in7 !u

/!

.! And :h d! !u :#nt t! te%ti- #7#in%t /%+ K$eindien%t #nd /ih#e$% th*ee hi$d*en

/! I :#% #%8ed -!* . $e7#$ !"ini!n in the .#tte* #nd it% !- inte$$etu#$ u*i!%it t! .e+

.! ;hen !u %# ?$e7#$ !"ini!n,? #*e !u #n #tt!*ne

/! I #. %!**+ / .edi#$ !"ini!n+ It :#% # .i%t#8e+

.! S! !u*e 7!in7 t! te%ti- !u #*e 7!in7 t! 7ie !u* .edi#$ !"ini!n t!d#

/! I #.+

.! A7#in%t /*+ J#8%!n #nd the th*ee hi$d*en

.! I% th#t *i7ht

/! I #. 7!in7 t! 7ie . !"ini!n #% t! e*t#in .#tte*% *e7#*ded "*!"!-!$ #nd n!t -!* !* #7#in%t #n "#*tiu$#* "!%iti!n+It% @u%t . !"ini!n, . .edi#$ !"ini!n+

.! A*e !u #*e :!*8in7 -!* .!ne, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And !u* !:n inte$$etu#$ u*i!%it, #% !u %#id

/! C!**et+

.! Si*, :h#t t"e !- d!t!* #*e !u

/! I #. #n #dditi!n .ediine %"ei#$i%t+

.! And :h#t d!e% th#t .e#n

/! Th#t .e#n% I #*e -!* indiidu#$% th#t %u--e* -*!. %u5%t#ne #5u%e #nd *e$#ted #dditi!n di%!*de*%+


3/22

.! And, %i*, :h#t u#$i-ie% !u t! 5e #n #dditi!n .ediine %i*, :h#t u#$i-ie% !u t! 5e #n #dditi!n .ediine%"ei#$i%t

/! The #dditi!n .ediine i% # -ie$d+ ;hen I ente*ed, it h#d n! %"ei-i u#$i-i#ti!n%, 5ut !e* the "#%t 2B e#*% !-d!in7 it, the*e h#% 5een # e*ti-i#ti!n "*!e%% #nd .!*e *eent$ # 5!#*d e*ti-i#ti!n "*!e%%+

.! And, %i*, #*e !u 5!#*d e*ti-ied in #dditi!n .ediine

/! I #.+

.! And :hen did !u 5e!.e 5!#*d e*ti-ied

/! The -i*%t e#* th#t te%t :#% !--e*ed+ And I thin8 th#t :#% 2009 +

.! )! !u 8n!: :h#t .!nth in 2009 !u :e*e 5!#*d e*ti-ied

/! I d! n!t+

.! And :h#t %"ei-i t*#inin7 h#e !u h#d in #dditi!n .ediine th#t #$$!:% !u t! 5e # %"ei#$i%t

/! ;e$$, . initi#$ t*#inin7 :#% in neu*!$!7+ S! I h#e e6ten%ie 8n!:$ed7e !- 5*#in "h#*.#!$!7,neu*!"h#*.#!$!7, neu*!"h%i!$!7+ And then %ine then, I h#e h#d t*#inin7 in "%h!the*#", e6"e*ienti#$"%h!the*#", #nd 5e#u%e the*e :#% n! %"ei-i t*#inin7 :hen I %t#*ted !--+ It :#% 5#%i#$$ !nthe@!5 t*#inin7 :ith!the* #dditi!n e6"e*t%+ And th#t% h!: initi#$$ h!: I $e#*ned th#t, #nd then t!!8 #n 8ind !- e*ti-i#ti!n te%t% #nde6#.% th#t :e*e nee%%#* !e* the e#*%+

.! And, %i*, h!: .#n e#*% in t!t#$ :!u$d !u %# !u h#e 5een :!*8in7 !* t*#inin7 th#t h#e $ed !u t! 5e!.e #n#dditi!n .ediine %"ei#$i%t

/! T:entei7ht+

.! And, %i*, I h#e ie:ed I h#e %een ee*thin7 !n !u* :e5%ite #nd #$$ !- !u* #*ti$e%+ And !u h#e d!ne # $!t !-inte*ie:% #nd :*itten # $!t !- #*ti$e% !n the %u5@et, !**et

/! Th#t% !**et+

.! And #$$ e* i."*e%%ie+ And !u !n%ide* !u*%e$- #n e6"e*t in th#t, !**et

/! I !n%ide* .%e$- #n e6"e*t in .!%t #*e#% !- #dditi!n .ediine+ The*e #*e %!.e #*e#% th#t I 8n!: $e%% #5!ut, 5ut in7ene*#$, e%+

.! Si*, #*e !u u#$i-ied t! t*e#t "#tient% :h! h#e #dditi!n

/! I #.+

.! And :h#t h#% #*e !u u#$i-ied t! t*e#t "#tient% :h! h#e de"enden !n he.i#$%


4/22

/! A5%!$ute$+

.! N!:, %i*, #*e !u u#$i-ied t! t*e#t "#tient% :h! #*e #ddited t! !"i!id%

/! e%+

.! And :h#t 7ie% !u th#t u#$i-i#ti!n

/! / ASA/ e*ti-i#ti!n #nd 2B e#*% e6"e*iene #nd #$%! # te#he* in the -ie$d+

.! And, %i*, #*e !u u#$i-ied t! t*e#t "#tient% :h! #*e #ddited t! "*!"!-!$

/! I #.+


/! 'e#u%e I h#e t*e#ted .!*e "*!"!-!$ de"endent "e!"$e th#n "*!5#5$ #n %in7$e $inii#n in the nited St#te%+

.! And, #$%!, !u* 2B e#*% !- e6"e*iene in the -ie$d

/! C!**et+

.! And !u* 5!#*d e*ti-i#ti!n #% #n #dditi!n .ediine %"ei#$i%t

/! C!**et+

.! And, %i*, #*e !u u#$i-ied %t*i8e th#t+ I% )e.e*!$ #n !"i!id

/! It i%+

.! Si*, #*e !u u#$i-ied t! t*e#t "#tient% :h! #*e #ddited t! !* de"endent !n )e.e*!$

/! e%+


/! The %#.e #% the "*ei!u%+

.! T:entei7ht e#*% e6"e*iene, 5!#*d e*ti-i#ti!n, "e*%!n#$ e6"e*iene t*e#tin7 the.

/! e%+

.! i% th#t !**et

/! hhuh+

.! I% th#t # e%

/! Th#t i% # e%+

.! And, %i*, :h#t # 5enD!di#De"ine

/! 'enD!di#De"ine i% # $#*7e $#%% !- d*u7% th#t #*e %ed#tie d*u7% th#t #*e #$%! u%ed -!* %$ee" induti!n+

.! And, %i*, #*e !u u#$i-ied t! t*e#t "#tient% :h! #*e #ddited t! !* de"endent !n 5enD!di#De"ine%


5/22

/! I #.+

.! And :h#t 7ie% th#t !u u#$i-i#ti!n

/! The %#.e "*!e%% e*ti-i#ti!n, e6"e*iene, #nd 5ein7 # te#he* in the -ie$d+

.! Let% t#8e "*!"!-!$ #dditi!n !* de"enden+ )! !u thin8 i- # "#tient i% 7!in7 t! 5e t*e#ted -!* "*!"!-!$ #dditi!n !*de"enden, d! !u thin8 it% i."!*t#nt th#t # u#$i-ied d!t!* t*e#t the. -!* th#t !* i% it !8# i- #n !$d t"e !- d!t!*

t*e#t% the. -!* th#t

"'E 0,"NE11% I thin8 the u#$i-i#ti!n i% # 5*!#d te*. #nd the*e #*e #*i!u% :#% t! #tt#in t! 5e!.e u#$i-ied, 5utI 5e$iee %!.e t"e !- u#$i-i#ti!n i% i."!*t#nt :hen t*e#tin7 #n t"e !- i$$ne%%+

+* MR! +O*-E%

.! And %!, %i*, !u #tu#$$ *un # -#i$it th#t t*e#t% #ddited "#tient%, !**et

/! N!t #t "*e%ent+ I h#e d!ne th#t u" unti$ J#nu#* !- 2012

.! And $et% t#8e !u* $#%t the $#%t %!*t !- entit th#t !u :e*e *unnin7 th#t :#% #n #dditi!n t*e#t.ent ente*+ O8#

/! G!!d+

.! ;h#t :#% th#t #$$ed

/! It :#% #$$ed T#$5!tt Re!e* C#."u%+


6/22

.! )id !u ee* h#e #n e$e5*itie% th#t :e*e t*e#ted #t :ith!ut te$$in7 .e :h! the #*e, #n e$e5*itie% :h! :e*et*e#ted #t T#$5!tt Re!e* Se*ie%

/! I did+

.! )id !u ee* h#e # %itu#ti!n :he*e !u tu*ned #:# "#tient% -!* t*e#t.ent #t T#$5!tt Re!e* Se*ie% #nd %#id n!,

:h d!nt !u @u%t 7! #nd %ee # #*di!$!7i%t

/! I- :e h#d %!.e!ne th#t h#d #*di!#%u$#* di%e#%e, :e :!u$d *e-e* the. !ut t! t#8e #*e !- the #*di!#%u$#*di%e#%e, i- th#t% :h#t !u #*e #%8in7+

.! N!, :h#t I #. #%8in7 i% did !u ee* h#e %!.e!ne !.e in #nd the %#id ?I h#e #n #dditi!n, I h#e #n #dditi!n t!!"i!id%,? -!* e6#."$e, #nd !u %#id, ?N!, :e*e n!t 7!in7 t! t*e#t !u he*e #t T#$5!tt Re!e*, !u :!u$d 5e 5ette*%e*ed @u%t 5 7!in7 !-- #nd -indin7 %!.e *#nd!. #*di!$!7i%t+? )id !u ee* d! th#t

/! ;e :!u$d nee* %end # "#tient t! # *#nd!. d!t!*+

.! 'e#u%e %uh # d!t!* :!u$d n!t 5e # %"ei#$i%t in t*e#tin7 "e!"$e :ith #dditi!n, !**et

/! Atu#$$, I :#% .!*e #i.ed #t the -#t th#t :e :!u$dnt %end #n!ne t! # *#nd!. "h%ii#n+

.! S! in !the* :!*d%, !u :!u$d he8 !ut :hihee* "h%ii#n !u :e*e 7!in7 t! %end the. t!, !**et

/! ;e :!u$d 8n!: !- th#t "h%ii#n% u#$i-i#ti!n%+

.! ;h#t :!u$d !u d! t! -ind !ut #5!ut th#t

/! ;e$$, :e :!u$d 8n!: #5!ut th#t "h%ii#n% "#%t hi%t!* !- :!*8+ ;e :!u$d 8n!: #5!ut thei* edu#ti!n#$5#87*!und+ ;e :!u$d 8n!: #5!ut thei* "#%t %8i$$%+ ;e :!u$d 8n!: #5!ut .#5e "#%t "#tient% th#t the h#d t*e#ted+

.! ;!u$d !u d! #n .#8e #n e--!*t t! dete*.ine :hethe* th#t d!t!* :#% -in#ni#$$ de%"e*#te in #n :# in %uh #:# th#t the .i7ht .#8e 5#d dei%i!n%

/! I d!nt thin8 th#t :!u$d ente* int! !u* dei%i!n%+

.! 'ut !u :!u$d #t $e#%t -ind !ut :h#t 8ind !- d!t!* the :e*e

/! e%, :h#t 8ind !- d!t!* #nd :h#t thei* %8i$$ %et :#%+

.! And, %i*, -#i* %t#te.ent th#t !u #*e #n #d!#te -!* he$"in7 "e!"$e :h! h#e #dditi!n, !**et

/! A5%!$ute$+

.! Si*, h#e !u ee* he#*d the te*. ?en#5$e*?

/! e%, I h#e+


7/22

.! ;h#t i% #n en#5$e*

/! ;e$$, th#t% #7#in, th#t% # te*. th#t in the !..!n $in7u# -*#n#, the !..!n $#n7u#7e th#t *e-e*% t! #n indiidu#$th#t in%te#d !- he$"in7 %!.e!ne 7et 5ette* in !ut !- :h#t -ee$% $i8e 8indne%%, #tu#$$ i% hu*t-u$ -!* thei* #dditi!n+

.! And %! the te*. ?en#5$e*,? d!e% it !.e -*!. the !ne"t th#t the #*e #tu#$$ :hi$e the thin8 the*e he$"in7, the#*e #tu#$$ en#5$in7 the #dditi!n

/! Th#t i% !**et+

.! And :h#t #5!ut the te*. ?!de"enden? H#e !u he#*d th#t

/! I h#e+

.! ;h#t i% !de"enden

/! It% #n!the* te*. th#t h#% i% n!t u%ed in the #dditi!n -ie$d #n.!*e, 5ut it% "*e#$ent in the 7ene*#$ in the 7ene*#$

:!*$d :he*e "e!"$e thin8 !- indiidu#$% th#t #*e %! $!%e t! #n indiidu#$, th#t the :ind u" n!t 5ein7 #5$e t! -i7u*e !uth!: t! 5e%t he$" the "e*%!n th#t the $!e !* the #*e -!*+

.! Si*, h#e !u ee* %een # %itu#ti!n :he*e #n #ddited "e*%!n :#% 5ein7 en#5$ed 5 #n!the* "e*%!n :h! h#d %!.ethin7t! 7#in -*!. th#t #ddited "e*%!n

"'E 0,"NE11% I 7ue%% I !u$d !n%t*ut # %itu#ti!n :he*e th#t .i7ht !u*, e#h+

.! e#h, I .e#n I h#e 5een d!in7 %!.e *e%e#*h !n, !u 8n!:, en#5$in7 #nd !de"enden #nd I h#e *e#d e*t#in

thin7%, $i8e %!.eti.e% # "e*%!n #n 5e !n%ide*ed # !de"endent t! #n #ddit :hen the %t# $!%e t! the #ddit 5e#u%ethe *e$ !n th#t #ddit -!* %!.e *e#%!n+ And then the, the*e-!*e, 5e!.e #n en#5$e* 5e#u%e the :#nt t! 8ee" the%itu#ti!n 7!in7+ )! !u 8n!: :h#t I #. t#$8in7 #5!ut

/! e#h+ I d!nt thin8 th#t i% #tu#$$ #n #u*#te de%*i"ti!n, 5ut I he#* th#t i% h!: !u %ee it+ I thin8 th#t i% #tu#$$:h#t !ne :!u$d #$$ %e!nd#* 7#in+

.! E6"$#in th#t -!* .e, %e!nd#* 7#in+

/! A %e!nd#* 7#in i% :he*e !u #*e in!$ed in # %itu#ti!n :he*e !u h#e the #7end# i% n!t t! 5e he$"-u$ in 7ettin7

th#t "e*%!n 5ette* 5ut %!.e !the* i%%ue, %uh #% !u d!nt :#nt !u* hu%5#nd, :h! i% # "h%ii#n, t! n!t 5e #5$e t! :!*8+

.! S! the %!*t !- e6#."$e !u "ut #t the end the*e, th#t !u$d 5e # %itu#ti!n :he*e # %"!u%e !- # "h%ii#n :#nt% th#t"h%ii#n t! 8ee" :!*8in7 #nd %! en#5$e% th#t "h%ii#n% #dditi!n+ I% th#t :h#t !u #*e t#$8in7 #5!ut

/! e#h, e#h, th#t% $e#* en!u7h+


8/22

.! And then in te*.% !- en#5$e*%, i% it # -#i* %t#te.ent th#t !-ten en#5$e*% "*!ide #ddit% :ith the .e#n% t! 5e #5$e t!!ntinue thei* #dditi!n, -!* e6#."$e, :ith -in#ne%

/! I 7ue%% I !u$d !n%t*ue # %itu#ti!n :he*e th#t .i7ht !u*, e%+

.! And, !u 8n!:, I thin8 thi% i% #nd !-ten en#5$e*% .i7ht :#nt t! 5e :i$$-u$$ 5$ind t! the #dditi!n+ I% th#t # -#i*%t#te.ent

/! /!%t en#5$e*% #*e n!t :i$$-u$$ 5$ind+ /!%t en#5$e*%, thei* intent i% t! 5e 5ene!$ent #nd t! 5e he$"-u$, 5ut the #nt%ee the "*!5$e. 5e#u%e #dditi!n i% # di%e#%e !- %e*e #nd !n-u%i!n+ S! !-tenti.e%, #n en#5$e* #nt %ee it+

.! / ue%ti!n i% 5#%ed !n :h#t !u *eie:ed, !u 8ne: th#t )*+ /u**# :#% 7iin7 /ih#e$ J#8%!n .ediine t! -eedhi% #dditi!n, !**et

/! I d!nt #7*ee :ith th#t+ I thin8 th#t :h#t )*+ /u**# d!in7 :#% #t the ti.e :h#t he -e$t :#% the 5e%t thin7 #nd he$"in7hi% %$ee"+ N!:, :#% thi% .i%7uided In *et*!%"et, !5i!u%$, th#t %ee.% t! 5e the #%e+

.! !u #*e n!t te$$in7 the @u* th#t !u thin8 th#t :h#t )*+ /u**# did :#% !8#, #*e !u

/! I #. n!t+

.! ;#% it !8# -!* )*+ /u**# t! #d.ini%te* "*!"!-!$ t! /ih#e$ J#8%!n in # h!.e %ettin7 $i8e he did

/! N!+

.! Th#t :#% :*!n7, !**et

/! Th#t :#% .edi#$$ in!**et+

.! And :!u$d !u ee* d! th#t

/! I :!u$d n!t+

.! ;h n!t

/! ;e$$, th#t 7!e% t! . !"ini!n+ And . !"ini!n #5!ut the .#tte* !- "*!"!-!$ i% th#t h!.e he did n!t h#e "*!"e*.!nit!*in7 -!* !- hi% CO $ee$ !* hi% 5*e#thin7 $ee$ !* hi% !67en#ti!n+ He did n!t h#e "*!"e* *e%ue eui".ent##i$#5$e -!* hi.+ He :#% 7iin7 # .edi#ti!n :hih h#d # %tee" d!%e *e%"!n%e u*e, :hih .#8e% it di--iu$t t! @ud7e

the e6#t *i7ht d!%e+ He 7#e th#t .edi#ti!n #-te* 7iin7 hi. L!*#De"#. #nd V#$iu., )i#D#"#.+ And #% # *e%u$t, he*e#ted %ne*7 :ith the !the* d*u7% :hih "$#ed hi. #t *i%8+ And he :#% u%in7 #n int*#en!u% int*!duti!n tehniue:hih :#% n!n%t#nd#*d #nd :hih :#% "*!ne t! dee$!" "*!5$e.% %uh #% "u$.!n#* e.5!$i -*!. $!t% -*!. $e7 ein%+

.! And did !u #$%! %ee )*+ /u**#% "h!ne *e!*d% !n the d# th#t /ih#e$ J#8%!n died

/! I did $!!8 #t the.+ I #nt de%*i5e the. e*5#ti. 5ut I did $!!8 #t the.+

.! )id !u %ee he :#% !n the "h!ne # $!t du*in7 the ti.e he :#% "u*"!*tin7 t! 5e t*e#tin7 /ih#e$ J#8%!n


9/22

/! I did+

.! I% th#t #""*!"*i#te -!* # "h%ii#n t! d! th#t

/! N!t it i% n!t+ And the *e#%!n it i% n!t i% 5e#u%e !ntinu!u% .!nit!*in7 i% indi#ted, :hih "$#e% /ih#e$ J#8%!n#t hi7h *i%8 -!* -!* n!t %u*iin7 th#t tehniue+

.! And, %i*, 5#%ed !n !u* *eie: !- the *e!*d, !u unde*%t#nd th#t )*+ /u**# i% in "*i%!n -!* 8i$$in7 /ih#e$ J#8%!n,!**et

"'E 0,"NE11% )*+ /u**# i% in @#i$, t! the 5e%t !- . 8n!:$ed7e+

.! And !u #*e !- the !"ini!n th#t n!5!d %h!u$d 5e #d.ini%te*in7 "*!"!-!$ @u%t t! 7et %!.e!ne t! %$ee", !**et

/! *!"!-!$ i% n!t #n #""*!"*i#te #7ent -!* %$ee" induti!n+

.! And n!5!d %h!u$d 5e 7iin7 "*!"!-!$ t! %!.e5!d @u%t 5e#u%e th#t %!.e5!d .i7ht 7et %!.e %en%e !- eu"h!*i#

!ut !- it, !**et

/! *!"!-!$ i% n!t # d*u7 :hih i% n! d*u7% #*e u%ed in .ediine -!* the "*!duti!n !- eu"h!*i#+

.! ;e$$, i- %!.e!ne h#d %tee*ed /ih#e$ J#8%!n !u* :# in 2009 , d! !u 5e$iee !u !u$d h#e d!ne # 5ette* @!5t*e#tin7 #n #dditi!n he .# h#e h#d

/! nde* the i*u.%t#ne% th#t :e*e "*e%ent #t the ti.e, I d!nt thin8 I !u$d h#e d!ne # 5ette* @!5 in te*.% !- 7ettin7hi. in *e!e*, i- th#t% :h#t !u* ue%ti!n i%+

.! I% the*e #n $ee$ !- "*!"!-!$ th#t %!.e!ne #n 5e !n :he*e the #n t#$8

/! e%, !u #n thi% @u%t 7!e% t! thi% i%%ue !- the %tee" d!%e *e%"!n%e u*e th#t I :#% t#$8in7 #5!ut e#*$ie*, th#t e%,!u #n 5e in th#t %t#te 5ut the h#n7e in the d!%e 5et:een 5ein7 in # $i7ht t:i$i7ht %t#te #nd 5ein7 !."$ete$ !5tundenti% e* %.#$$ #nd #*ie% -*!. ti.e t! ti.e+ And th#t .e#n% th#t indiidu#$% :h! #*e 7ien "*!"!-!$ in #n un!nt*!$$edeni*!n.ent #*e #t hi7he* *i%8 -!* de#th i- the #*e n!t "*!"e*$ .!nit!*ed 5e#u%e th#t %tee" d!%e *e%"!n%e u*e, !u #*enee* uite "*edit :hen #n indiidu#$ i% 7!in7 t! 5e #%$ee" t:i$i7ht %t#te, #%$ee" !* !5tundent+ And the d!%e% #n#tu#$$ #* -*!. ti.e t! ti.e+

.! S! it %!und% $i8e #d.ini%te*in7 "*!"!-!$ i% # hi7h$, hi7h$ tehni#$ .#tte*+

/! It% e#h, tehni#$ in %!.e :#%+ ;hen !u h#e "*!"e* 5*e#thin7 #""#*#tu% #*!und, !u d!nt :!** #5!ut"uttin7 %!.e!ne t!! dee" 5e#u%e !u #n #$:#% #%%i%t in thei* 5*e#thin7 #nd !u #n #$:#% the !the* !."$i#ti!n !-"*!"!-!$ i% it #$%! $!:e*% 5$!!d "*e%%u*e #nd !u #n #$%! he$" the 5$!!d "*e%%u*e :ith :h#t #*e #$$ed "*e%%!* #7ent%,#7ent% :hih :i$$ *#i%e the 5$!!d "*e%%u*e+ S! th!%e t:! !n%euene% !u$d 5e e#%i$ .#int#ined in #n !"e*#tie the#te*+


10/22

.! Si*, in !u* *eie: !- the *e!*d .#te*i#$% in thi% #%e, did !u %ee #nthin7 th#t indi#ted th#t )*+ /u**# h#d!67en t#n8% in the C#*!$:!!d h!u%e

/! I 5e$iee he h#d !67en t#n8% 5ut n!t #n %!*t !- 5*e#thin7 .#%8 !* *e%ue :h#t i% #$$ed *e%ue eui".ent #nd#ne%the%i#+

.! S! :ith!ut the 5*e#thin7 .#%8, he :!u$d n!t 8ee" the 5*e#thin7 7!in7, !**et

/! Ri7ht+ 'e#u%e the 5*e#thin7 .#%8% #tu#$$ "*!ide %h!*tte*. CR, i- !u :i$$, in #%e !u %t!" 5*e#thin7+

.! And i% th#t # !..!n .eh#ni%. !- de#th in # "*!"!-!$ !e*d!%e

/! It i% the %t!""in7 5*e#thin7 #n !u* in %ee*#$ :#% -*!. "*!"!-!$+ One i% 5e#u%e !- the -#t th#t the $#*n7e#$.u%$e% 5e!.e $#6+ And #n indiidu#$ %uh #% /ih#e$ J#8%!n :h! h#% # $#*7e t!n7ue #n #tu#$$ !5%t*ut hi%5*e#thin7 #""#*#tu%+ S! th#t% :h i- he :#% 5ein7 7ien "*!"!-!$ !e* # "e*i!d !- ti.e, #t #n 7ien ti.e, he !u$d!5%t*ut #nd he !u$d h#e died, :h!ee* :#% 7iin7 th#t "*!"!-!$+ And %! th#t% !ne :# !- !u !u$dnt te$$ thedi--e*ene 5et:een #tu#$$ hi% 5*e#thin7 .u%$e% %t!""in7 #nd the 5*e#thin7 -unti!nin7 -#i$in7 5e#u%e the $#*n7e#$.u%$e% *e$#6ed+ The t!n7ue 7!e% 5#8 #nd !5%t*ut% the u""e* #i*:#+

.! N!:, in the #d.ini%t*#ti!n !- "*!"!-!$ in #n #""*!"*i#te %ettin7, :h#t i% d!ne #5!ut the t!n7ue "*!5$e.

/! T:! thin7%+ The*e #*e #tu#$$ th*ee thin7%+ The .#@!*it !- #%e%, the*e i% eithe* #n #i*:# ##i$#5$e !* the*e#tu#$$ intu5#ted :he*e the 5*e#thin7 tu5e 7!e% "#%t the u""e* !*#$ "h#*n6, the u""e* 5*e#thin7 #*e#+ S! the 5"#%% %!th#t it h!$d% th#t #*e# !"en+ And the thi*d thin7 !ne #n d! i% 5*e#the -!*in7 !ne 5 #""$in7 "!%itie "*e%%u*e :ith #n#.5u 5#7 !* %i.i$#* #""#*#tu%+

.! And n!ne !- the%e th*ee thin7% :e*e d!ne :ith *e7#*d t! /ih#e$ J#8%!n, !**et

.! At the ti.e /*+ J#8%!n died, n!ne !- the%e th*ee 5*e#thin7 #%%i%t#ne "*!edu*e% :e*e d!ne, !**et

"'E 0,"NE11% ;h#t I d! *e.e.5e* -*!. the *e!*d i% C!n*#d /u**# did "e*-!*. CR !n hi.+ S! th#t i% e%%enti#$$the %#.e #% #n #.5u 5#7+ ;hethe* th#t :#% t!! $#te !* n!t i% un$e#*+

+* MR! +O*-E%

.! 'ut the*e :#% n! the*e :#% n!thin7 the*e :#%nt #n!the* #i*:# !"en, !**et

/! The*e :#% n!t #n!the* #i*:# !"en+

.! And :h#t i% th#t #$$ed :hen the #$$ ut %!.ethin7 in the th*!#t

/! T*#he!t!.+

.! S! the*e :#%nt th#t d!ne, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And the*e :#%nt #n intu5#ti!n d!ne, *i7ht


11/22

/! C!**et+

.! 'ut :h#t :#% d!ne :hen )*+ /u**# %#: %!.ethin7 :#% 7!in7 :*!n7, he t*ied CR, !**et

/! C!**et+

"'E 0,"NE11% T! the 5e%t !- . 8n!:$ed7e, th#t% :h#t the *e!*d% *e-$et+

.! Si*, in :!*8in7 in #dditi!n .ediine, I #. #%%u.in7 %!.eti.e% the*e i% "#tient% :h! need CR, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! I% it in#""*!"*i#te in !u* -ie$d t! 7ie CR !n # %!-t 5ed #% !""!%ed t! # h#*de* %u*-#e THE ;ITNESSF It% it%e*t#in$ #""*!"*i#te t! "ut the indiidu#$ !n # h#*d %u*-#e -!* "*!"e* CR+

+* MR! +O*-E%

.! And, %i*, d! !u h#e #n !"ini!n #% t! :hethe* /ih#e$ J#8%!n in 2009 :#% h#d #n #dditi!n

/! In 2009 , he did h#e #n #dditi!n, e%+

.! And :h#t i% the 5#%i% !- th#t !"ini!n

/! 'e#u%e !- hi% #*e !u #%8in7 #5!ut #n %"ei-i d*u7 !* #*e !u #%8in7 #5!ut 7ene*#$$ #n #dditi!n

.! G!!d ue%ti!n+ ;e$$, $et .e thin8 #5!ut it n!:+ )! !u thin8 he h#d #dditi!n% t! .!*e th#n !ne d*u7

/! I thin8 he $e#*$ h#d #n #dditi!n t! !"i!id%, th#t $#%% !- d*u7%+

.! )! !u thin8 he h#d #n #dditi!n t! #n !the* d*u7%

/! I d!nt thin8 the*e i% %u--iient eidene t! -*!. the *e!*d *e#din7 t! #%e*t#in :hethe* he :#% #ddited t! eithe*"*!"!-!$ !* 5enD!di#De"ine%+ The*e #*e %u77e%ti!n% in the *e!*d 5ut the*e i% n!t %u--iient in-!*.#ti!n+

.! ;ith *e7#*d t! !"i!id%, :h#t :hih d*u7% :ithin the !"i!id $#%% d! !u thin8 /*+ J#8%!n :#% #ddited t!

/! The "*i.#* d*u7 !- hi% #dditi!n :#% .e"e*idine, the t*#de n#.e )e.e*!$+ And th#t :#% 5 -#* #nd #:# the .!%t!..!n !"i!id th#t he t!!8+ The*e :e*e %ee*#$ #%e% :he*e he :#% 7ien !the* n#*!ti% -!* "#in *e$ie- #nd th#t %!*t!- thin7 #nd 5ut the .e"e*idine :#% the "*i.#* d*u7 th#t he u%ed in the !"i!id $#%%+

.! And th#t i% .!*e !..!n te*. u%#7e i% )e.e*!$

/! hhuh+

.! I% th#t # e% S!**+

/! et, it i%+ e%, th#t% the t*#de n#.e, i% )e.e*!$+

.! N!:, d! !u h#e #n !"ini!n :ith *e7#*d t! :hethe* /ih#e$ J#8%!n% de#th :#% #u%ed 5 )e.e*!$


12/22

/! /ih#e$ J#8%!n% de#th :#% n!t #u%ed 5 )e.e*!$ di*et$+ The*e i% # ue%ti!n #% t! :hethe* the )e.e*!$"*!due% %ne*7 #nd he$"ed *e#te the de#th -*!. "*!"!-!$ #nd 5enD!di#De"ine%+

.! )! !u 8n!: i- the*e :#% #n )e.e*!$ in /ih#e$ J#8%!n% %%te. #-te* he died

/! I d!nt *e.e.5e* the e6#t u#ntit, i- the*e :#%+ ;h#t I d! 8n!: i% 5ut the*e #*e !the* i%%ue% in!$ed :ith the!"i!id% #nd de#th, %!+

.! S! :e :i$$ 7et t! th#t+ Let .e #%8 thi% :#+ )! !u 5e$iee # )e.e*!$ !e*d!%e #u%ed /*+ J#8%!n% de#th

/! I d! n!t+

.! )! !u 5e$iee # 5enD!di#De"ine !e*d!%e #u%ed hi% de#th

/! N!t 5enD!di#De"ine% #$!ne+ 'enD!di#De"ine% in %ne*7 :ith "*!"!-!$ :e*e .!%t $i8e$ #u%#tie in hi% de#th+

.! H!: $!n7 in ti.e d! !u thin8 /ih#e$ J#8%!n :#% #ddited t! the%e $#%%e% !- d*u7%

/! The !"i!d d*u7%, the*e i% eidene !- #dditi!n t! !"i!d d*u7% :hih d#te% 5#8 int! the e#*$ 1990 %, 7!in7 t!!ne*n% #5!ut hi% $!n7te*. "*!7n!%i% -!* *e!e* 5e#u%e the $!n7e* !u #*e !n #n !"i#te, the :!*%e !u* "*!7n!%i% i%-!* *e!e*+

.! ;h#t #5!ut the "*!"!-!$ I 7ue%% !u d!nt !u didnt dete*.ine :hethe* he :#% #ddited t! "*!"!-!$, *i7ht

/! N!, I didnt thin8 the*e :#% %u--iient d#t# in the *e!*d -!* .e t! *e#h # !n$u%i!n # !n$u%ie !"ini!n #5!ut it+

.! N!:, !n the eidene *e7#*din7 /*+ J#8%!n 5ein7 #ddited t! !"i!d% 5#8 -*!. the e#*$ 1990%, #*e !u 5#%in7

th#t !"ini!n in "#*t !n the de"!%iti!n !- )*+ Stu#*t


13/22

.! H!"e-u$$+

/! The "*!5$e. th#t :e h#e he*e i% # .#n :h!%e *e"ut#ti!n #nd %8i$$ #nd :!nde*.ent e6eeded "*!5#5$, !u 8n!:,"e*ent !- the "e!"$e !n the "$#net+ And I :!u$d $i8e t! %# th#t I :!u$d nee* d! th#t, 5ut thi% :#% # e* di--iu$t #nddi--e*ent %itu#ti!n+

.! He :#% !ne !- the .!%t 5e$!ed ente*t#ine*% in the :!*$d, !**et

/! A5%!$ute$+

.! And "e!"$e :#nted t! 5e ne#* hi., !**et

/! C!**et+

.! N!:, #nd !u :!u$d $i8e t! %# !u :!u$dnt h#e d!ne :h#t the%e d!t!* did, !**et

/! I :!u$d $i8e t! %# th#t+

.! 'ut i- !u did, i- !u 7#e in #nd !u did it, th#t :!u$dnt 5e !8#, :!u$d it

/! It :!u$d n!t 5e !8#+

.! And t! d! :h#t )*+ /u**# did :#% %i."$ n!t !8#, !**et

"'E 0,"NE11% ;hih thin7 th#t he did !u .e#n the "*e%*i5in7 the "*!"!-!$

+* MR! +O*-E%

.! C!**et+

/! *e%*i5in7 the "*!"!-!$ u$ti.#te$ *e%u$ted in /ih#e$ J#8%!n% de#th+

.! Ri7ht+ And th#t% n!t !8#+

/! And th#t% n!t !8#+ And, %i*, !u$d !u te$$ .e .!*e #5!ut :ithd*#:#$ %."t!.% -*!. "*!"!-!$+

/! Thi% i% :he*e the %tud :he*e it %#% ?Stud? !n . %heet+

.! e%, %i*+

/! ;e, in !u* #%e %tud !- "*!"!-!$ de"endent indiidu#$%, :e :e*e #5$e t! h#*#te*iDe the :ithd*#:#$+ And the:ithd*#:#$ i% de"*e%%i!n, in%!.ni# #nd i**it#5i$it+ Th!%e #*e the th*ee h#$$.#*8in7 %i7n% !- :ithd*#:#$+

.! Si*, did !u 5#%ed !n !u* *eie: !- the *e!*d, did !u %ee #n !- the%e %."t!.% !- "*!"!-!$ :ithd*#:#$ in/ih#e$ J#8%!n

/! He /*+ J#8%!n .!%t $i8e$ h#d %!.e 5#%e$ine in%!.ni#, :hih :#% "#*#d!6i#$$ :!*%ened 5 the u%e !-5enD!di#De"ine% #nd "*!"!-!$+


14/22

.! S! !u 5e$iee th#t hi% in%!.ni# :ith *e7#*d t! "*!"!-!$, hi% in%!.ni# :#% :!*%ened 5 the "*!"!-!$ u%e

/! C!**et, e%+

.! O* :!*%ened 5 the !* the :ithd*#:#$ -*!. "*!"!-!$+

/! e#h+ I .e#n the*e 5!th the %#.e+ !u 7et the d*u7, !u #*e 7!in7 t! 7et the :ithd*#:#$ #t %!.e "!int, e#h+

.! I 7ue%% . ue%ti!n i% t! .#8e it *e#$ %i."$e, :hen the "*!"!-!$ :hen !u #*e 7ien the "*!"!-!$, #*e !u !ut+

/! Ri7ht+ S! :hen !u t#8e #:# the "*!"!-!$, !u h#e the in%!.ni# #-te* the "*!"!-!$ i% n! $!n7e* #d.ini%te*ed+

.! G!t it+ And, %i*, :h#t #5!ut hi$$%+ I% hi$$ i% hi$$% # %."t!. !- "*!"!%#$ u%e !* :ithd*#:#$

/! ;e d!nt "e!"$e #n 5e i**it#5$e+ ;e h#ent #tu#$$ %een hi$$%+ ;e h#e h#d indiidu#$% th#t h#e h#d %eiDu*e%#%%!i#ted :ith "*!"!-!$ :ithd*#:#$ 5ut n!t %"ei-i#$$ hi$$%+

.! )id !u %ee in the *e!*d #n:he*e th#t /ih#e$ J#8%!n %h!:ed u" -!* *ehe#*%#$ %h!*t$ 5e-!*e he died #nd :#%%u--e*in7 e6t*e.e hi$$%

/! I did+

.! )! !u h#e #n !"ini!n !n :h#t th#t :#% #$$ #5!ut

/! Chi$$% i% # e* 7ene*i %."t!. #nd !u$d .e#n #nthin7 -*!. the -$u t!, !u 8n!:, %!.e !the* # !$d, $!:5$!!d %u7#*+ The*e i% $!t% !- di--e*ent *e#%!n% :h "e!"$e h#e hi$$% #nd it% # -#i*$ n!n%"ei-i %."t!.+

.! N!:, %i*, !u*e u#$i-ied in #nd #n e6"e*t in 7ettin7 "e!"$e !-- d*u7%, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And i% it #""*!"*i#te t! t#8e # "e*%!n :h! i% #ddited t! )e.e*!$ i% it #n #""*!"*i#te "*#tie t! @u%t ut the. !--!$d tu*8e

/! )i%!ntinuin7 !"i!d% !$d tu*8e i% n!t $i-e th*e#tenin7+ It #n 5e d!ne #nd the*e #*e "e!"$e th#t :i$$ d! th#t+ And#% # .#tte* !- -#t, 5e-!*e :e h#d e*t#in det!6 d*u7%, th#t% :h#t I :!u$d d!, 5ut it i% n!t the u**ent "*#tie t!d# n!:th#t :e h#e !the* .edi#ti!n% t! he$" det!6i- !"i!dde"endent indiidu#$%+

.! And :h#t i% the u**ent "*#tie t!d#

/! I% t! t#"e* !n # d*u7 #$$ed 5u"*en!*"hine+

.! And, %i*, #*e !u -#.i$i#* :ith the d*u7 #$$ed %u5!6!ne

/! Th#t i% 5u"*en!*"hine+

.! And !u$d !u e6"$#in :h#t th#t i%+


15/22

/! Su5!6!ne i% # d*u7 :hih i% !nt#in% 5u"*en!*"hine #% it% "*i.#* in7*edient+ And then the %e!nd#* in7*edienti% %!.ethin7 #$$ed n#$!6!ne+ And the *e#%!n d! !u :#nt t! 8n!: tehni#$$ :h it% # !.5in#ti!n

.! Su*e+

/! The n#$!6!ne i% "$#ed in the %u5!6!ne %! "e!"$e :h! #*e he.i#$$ de"endent !* #ddited #nt t#8e the %u5!6!ne#nd 7*ind it u" #nd in@et it 5e#u%e the n#$!6!ne, i- in@eted, 5$!8% the e--et% !- the 5u"*en!*"hine, 5ut i- !u t#8e it

!*#$$, it% n!t #5%!*5ed+ S! !u #n h#e the 5u"*en!*"hine det!6i-i#ti!n :ith!ut !n%euene%, 5ut it #nt 5ein@eted+

.! And, %i*, did !u %ee #n eidene in the *e!*d th#t /*+ J#8%!n :#% t*e#ted 5 #n!ne :ith %u5!6!ne

/! I %#: eidene in the *e!*d th#t he :#% t*e#ted :ith 5u"*en!*"hine e#*$ie*, 5ut I thin8 it :#% 5 )*+ G!*d!n, i- I*e.e.5e* !**et$+

.! )! !u 8n!: :hen th#t :#%

/! I d!nt+ I d!nt *e.e.5e* the d#te%+

.! )id !u %ee #n eidene in the *e!*d th#t )*+ C!n*#d /u**# :#% t*e#tin7 /*+ J#8%!n :ith 5u"*en!*"hine

/! I did n!t+

.! )id #nd #n :e @u%t #$$ it %u5!6!ne 5e#u%e it% e#%ie* t! %#

/! A5%!$ute$+

.! )!e% %u5!6!ne e6i%t in 2009

/! It did+

.! And :e*e !u t*e#tin7 "e!"$e :ith %u5!6!ne in 2009

/! I :#%+

.! ;h#t #5!ut "*!"!-!$ #dditi!n, :h#t i% the "*!"e* :# t! t*e#t "*!"!-!$ #dditi!n t! 7et %!.e5!d !-- the d*u7

/! Thi% :hen "e!"$e #*e #ddited t! "*!"!-!$, !u @u%t %t!" it+

.! And :h i% th#t

/! *!"!-!$ i% # %h!*t#tin7 d*u7+ S! di%!ntinuin7 it i% n!t $i-e th*e#tenin7+ The*e #*e unde* the #%t .#@!*it !-!n%euene% #tu#$$, :e h#e h#d %ee*#$ #%e% :he*e :e did h#e t! 7ie %ed#tie d*u7% t! 8ee" "#tient% -*!.%eiDin7, 5ut the%e #*e he#$th #*e "*!-e%%i!n#$% :h! #*e t#8in7 hu7e u#ntitie% !- "*!"!%#$+ nde* n!*.#$i*u.%t#ne%, !u di%!ntinue the "*!"!-!$+ And !#%i!n#$$, !u :i$$ 7ie # %ed#tie d*u7 -!* %ee*#$ d#% 5e#u%ethe "#tient% #*e #7it#ted !* i**it#5$e, 5ut the*e% n! !the* det!6i-i#ti!n th#t i% u%ed+

.! And :h#t #5!ut 5enD!di#De"ine, :h#t i% the #""*!"*i#te :# t! 7et %!.e5!d !-- !- 5enD!di#De"ine%


16/22

/! 'enD!di#De"ine% *eui*e # #uti!u%, #*e-u$ t#"e*+ S!.e indiidu#$% #*e e* %en%itie t! 5enD!di#De"ine% #nd it% #e* di--iu$t d*u7 t! 7et !-- !-+ )e%"ite the -#t th#t the*e .edi#$$ %#-e, det!6i-i#ti!n i% di--iu$t+ S! # %$!:,t#"e*ed de*e#%e !e* ti.e i% the :# t! d! th#t+

.! ;#% th#t the "*#tie in 2009

/! It :#%+

.! 'ut :hen I %# 7et "e!"$e $e#ned u", I #. t#$8in7 #5!ut 7ettin7 the. !-- the d*u7%+ )! !u unde*%t#nd th#t

/! e#h+

.! Th#t% :h#t !u h#e t*ied t! 7et "e!"$e !--e* !- d*u7%, !**et

/! I 7et "e!"$e !-- !- d*u7%, e%+

.! And d! !u th#t -!* thei* he#$th, !**et

/! Th#t i% !**et+

.! 'e#u%e #n !the* :# :!u$d 5e n!t #""*!"*i#te, !**et

/! I "*#tie .ediine 5#%ed !n the "#tient% he#$th+

.! !u #*e n!t 7!in7 t! #n%:e* . ue%ti!n

/! I d!nt !u 8n!:, I d!nt I d!nt .#8e . .edi#$ dei%i!n% 5#%ed u"!n # !*"!*#te dei%i!n+ I .#8e .dei%i!n% 5#%ed u"!n the he#$th !- . "#tient%+ S! I #nt #n%:e* the ue%ti!n $i8e th#t 5e#u%e I 5#%e . dei%i!n% !n. *e$#ti!n%hi" :ith . "#tient+

.! And !u*e # 7!!d #nd ethi#$ d!t!*, !**et

/! I :!u$d $i8e t! thin8 I #.+

.! And #$$ !- th!%e thin7% th#t !u @u%t te%ti-ied, th#t i% %!.ethin7 th#t T#$5!tt Re!e* :!u$d h#e t*ied t! #%%i%t :ith/*+ J#8%!n, !**et

/! The !"e*#tie :!*d in !u* ue%ti!n i% ?t*ied+? The "*!5$e. i% %ee*#$-!$d+


17/22

/! I :!u$d h#e #t the -*!nt d!!* #%8ed i- the*e t*ied t! unde*%t#nd i- the -#.i$ !u$d #$$ %t#nd 5ehind hi. n!t!5t#inin7 d*u7% #nd unde*%t#nd the h#e #n #dditi!n di%!*de*+ I :!u$d h#e t!$d hi. #t the -*!nt d!!* th#t 5e#u%e hi%#dditi!n, th*!u7h n! -#u$t !- hi% !:n, :#% uite %ee*e, th#t he need% # "*!$!n7ed "e*i!d !- *eh#5i$it#ti!n, .u$ti"$e.!nth%, "*!5#5$, !u 8n!:, .!*e th#n th*ee $e%%, th#n # e#* in initi#$ t*e#t.ent+ I :!u$d h#e t!$d hi. th#t he need%t! 5e !n n#$t*e6!ne #-te* t*e#t.ent+ I :!u$d h#e $!!8ed -!* #$te*n#tie :#% !- .#n#7in7 hi% "#in+ I :!u$d h#e t!-i7u*e !ut h!: t! $!%e d!:n hi% #e%% t! !"i!d% -*!. !the* %!u*e%, :hih :!u$d h#e 5een in hi% #%e # He*u$e#nt#%8, !nt#tin7 ee* %in7$e d!t!*, !u 8n!:, h#in7 u% !nt#t ee* "h#*.#, $!%in7 d!:n #$$ the "*e%*i"ti!n% #t#$$ !- hi% "h#*.#ie%+ I :!u$d h#e 7ien hi. # %e*ie% !- %8i$$% th#t #*e #$$ed d*u7*e-u%#$ %8i$$% #*!und !"i!d%+ And I:!u$d h#e :!*8ed t! une#*th the t*#7i %e*e th#t :#% %u**!undin7 #$$ !- hi% d*u7 u%e, :hih un-!*tun#te$,

!nt*i5uted t! hi% te**i5$e de#th+

.! N!:, the -i*%t thin7 !u %#id i% t* t! unde*%t#nd i- hi% -#.i$ :!u$d %t#nd 5ehind hi., !u 8n!:, t! .#8e %u*e hed!e%nt 7et d*u7%, *i7ht

/! hhuh+

.! I% th#t !**et

/! hhuh+

.! I% th#t # e%

/! Th#t i% e%+

.! 'ut !u #*e n!t %#in7 !u h#e #n in-!*.#ti!n th#t hi% -#.i$ :#% 7ettin7 hi. d*u7%, #*e !u

/! N!, the*e i% n! eidene I h#e I #. !."$ete$ $e#* th#t hi% -#.i$ :#nted n!thin7 5ut the 5e%t -!* hi.+

.! And, in -#t, !u *e#d in the *e!*d% th#t hi% -#.i$ t*ied t! d! inte*enti!n% -!* hi., *i7ht

/! e%+ And !ne inte*enti!n -#i$ed 5e#u%e the #.e t! %ee hi. #nd he #""e#*ed uite he#$th+ And %! theinte*enti!n :#% de-u%ed #t th#t "!int, :hih i% %#d 5ut t*ue+

.! 'ut !u h#e n! in-!*.#ti!n th#t the -#.i$ didnt d! the 5e%t @!5 the !u$d d! t! t* t! d! :h#t the !u$d d!,*i7ht

/! C!**et+ The "*!5$e. !.e% -*!. the -#t th#t it !.e% -*!. thi% i%%ue !- "!:e*+ Th#t i% :h it% .uh .!*edi--iu$t, -!* in%t#ne, t! t*e#t the "#t*i#*h !- # -#.i$ e*%u% the "#t*i#*h% 7*#nd%!n d!e% th#t .#8e %en%e th#t i-the "!:e* in the -#.i$ in the "!:e* in the -#.i$ e.#n#te% #nd in !u* %!iet, # $!t !- th#t "!:e* !.e% -*!., !u8n!:, %u""!*tin7 "e!"$e -in#ni#$$ it% e* h#*d -!* # -#.i$ .e.5e* t! 7et "#%t th#t+ S! :e :!u$d h#e t! h#d t! d!

#n en!*.!u% #.!unt !- :!*8 t! 7et "#%t the n#tu*#$ *e%i%t#ne t! 7ie int! hi% *eue%t%+ And I #. n!t I :#nt t! 5e$e#* th#t I #. n!t th#t 5 %#in7 th#t, I #. n!t in-e**in7 th#t the -#.i$ :#% in #n .#nne*, %h#"e !* -!*. 7ettin7d*u7% -!* hi. !* he$"in7 %u""!*t hi% #dditi!n, 5ut

.! 'e#u%e the*e i% n! eidene !- th#t, *i7ht

/! I thin8 the*e i% De*! eidene !- th#t+ The $!ed hi. #nd the :#nted hi. 5ette*+


18/22

.! And, %i*, !u #*e #:#*e #$%! #t the ti.e /ih#e$ J#8%!n died, hi% i..edi#te -#.i$ !n%i%ted !- hi.%e$- #nd th*ee!un7 hi$d*en, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And then hi% e$de*$ .!the*, :h! he %u""!*ted, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And !u d!nt thin8 th#t th*ee !un7 hi$d*en !* hi% e$de*$ .!the* :e*e 7ettin7 hi. d*u7%, !**et

/! I #5%!$ute$ d!nt+ I h#e n! th!u7ht% !- th#t+

.! And, %i*, then !u %#id the %e!nd thin7 :#%, !u 8n!:, !u :!u$d $et hi. 8n!: th#t hi% #dditi!n :#% %e*i!u%th*!u7h n! -#u$t !- hi% !:n, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And %! !u d!nt 5e$iee th#t /ih#e$ J#8%!n% #dditi!n :#% hi% -#u$t, !**et

/! N!+ Additi!n i% # 5i!$!7i di%e#%e th#t !ne it 7et% 7!in7, !e**ide% # $!t !- the thin7% th#t #$$!: u% t! .#8e 7!!ddei%i!n% in $i-e+

.! And %! it% n!t the #ddit% -#u$t, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And %! i- %!.e5!d :e*e t*in7 t! "!int the -in7e* #t /ih#e$ J#8%!n #nd %#in7 hi% de#th i% #$$ hi% !:n -#u$t,:!u$d !u #7*ee :ith th#t

"'E 0,"NE11% I h#e dedi#ted . #*ee* t! t#8in7 #*e !- the #ddited "e!"$e in thi% "$#net+ O8# And %! it%i."!*t#nt -!* !u t! 8n!: th#t I :!u$d %t#nd %t*!n7$ #7#in%t #n!ne th#t :!u$d 5$#.e the #ddit -!* thei* "*!5$e.+Th#t d!e%nt .e#n, h!:ee*, th#t the #ddit h#% t! #t %!.e "!int t#8e *e%"!n%i5i$it -!* thei* *e!e*+ And th#t d!e%nt!u* *i7ht #:#+ S!.eti.e% it t#8e% .!nth%, %!.eti.e% it t#8e% #nd th#t% *e#$$ :h t*e#t.ent t#8e% %! $!n7+ S! n!,I d!nt 5e$iee it% "*!"e* t! 5$#.e the #ddit+ /!%t "e!"$e th#t #*e #ddited, t*#7i#$$, in !u* %!iet e%"ei#$$, 5$#.ethe.%e$e% n!t t*, 5 the :#, in Eu*!"e#n u$tu*e%+ 'ut the 5$#.e the.%e$e%+ The h#e %h#.e #5!ut thei*i$$ne%%+ The dee$!" %e*e+ And th#t% e6#t$ :h#t :e %#: in thi% #%e+ It% %e*e hidin7 "*!tetin7 h#in7!ne d!t!* n!t t#$8 t! #n!the* $e%t !ne -ind !ut the )e.e*!$ :#% 5ein7 7ien 5 #n!the*+ Th#t% the 8ind !- %tu-- :e %#:+

+* MR! +O*-E%

.! And in #dditi!n .ediine, # :# !u %e$et d#t# i% 5 .eetin7 #nd inte*ie:in7 the "#tient, !**et

/! Th#t i% "#*t !- the th#t i% "#*t, 5ut n!t the !n$ :# :e d! th#t, e%+

.! And I d!nt thin8 #n!ne :!u$d di%#7*ee :ith !u !n thi%+ And 5ut he*e, !5i!u%$, !u h#e n!t 5een #5$e t! .eet/*+ J#8%!n+


19/22

/! I h#e n!t, t*#7i#$$+ ;!u$d h#e $i8ed t!+

.! I. %!**+ Ju%t -!* the *e!*d, he*e, un-!*tun#te$, !u h#e n!t 5een #5$e t! .eet /*+ J#8%!n, !**et

/! C!**et+

.! And %i.i$#*$, !u h#e n!t 5een #5$e t! .eet #n5!d -*!. hi% -#.i$, !**et

/! Th#t% !**et+

.! And %! !u :e*e n!t #5$e t! 7#the* #n d#t# di*et$ -*!. /*+ J#8%!n !* hi% -#.i$, !**et

/! Th#t% !**et+

.! And, %i*, :ith *e7#*d t! !e*!.in7 !e*!.in7 #dditi!n, i% it # -#i* %t#te.ent th#t %!.ethin7 th#t i% i."!*t#ntt! !n%ide* i% # "e*%!n% .!ti#ti!n t! !e*!.e the #dditi!n

/! Th#t i% # !."$i#ted %u5@et #nd I :i$$ t* t! .#8e the #n%:e* %h!*t+ S!.e "e!"$e #n !e*!.e #dditi!n :ithe* $itt$e initi#$ .!ti#ti!n+ /!ti#ti!n d!:n the *!#d, !ne "e!"$e h#e %!.e ti.e #5%tinent -*!. the d*u7%, d!e%5e!.e i."!*t#nt+

.! And 5#%ed !n !u* e6"e*iene, :h#t 8ind !- .!ti#ti!n% h#e !u %een th#t h#e en#5$ed "e!"$e t! !e*!.e thei*#dditi!n

/! Ee*!ne 7et% thei* .!ti#ti!n -*!. # di--e*ent %!u*e+ S!.e "e!"$e .i7ht 5e .!ti#ted 5 thei* .edi#$ $ien%e !*thei* "i$!t% $ien%e !* thei*, !u 8n!:, $#: $ien%e+ Othe* "e!"$e .i7ht 5e .!ti#ted 5 -#.i$, 5, !u 8n!:, 57ettin7 thei* "*ide #nd thei* n#.e 5#8+ S! .!ti#ti!n i% # !."$e6 thin7+ And -!* e#h "e*%!n, it% # $itt$e di--e*ent+

.! And, %i*, did !u %ee #nthin7 in the *e!*d *e7#*din7 /*+ J#8%!n% %e$-$e%% $!e -!* hi% hi$d*en

/! I did+

.! And :h#t :h#t did !u unde*%t#nd /*+ J#8%!n% *e$#ti!n%hi" :ith hi% hi$d*en t! 5e

/! nie*%#$$, :h#t :#% %t#ted in the *e!*d -*!. .#n, .#n %!u*e%, i% hi% dedi#ti!n t! hi% hi$d*en, hi%!."#%%i!n :ith hi% hi$d*en, hi% :#ntin7 the 5e%t -!* hi% hi$d*en #nd hi% de%i*e% t! 5e # 7!!d "#*ent, I 7ue%%, :!u$d 5ein-e**ed -*!. th#t+

.! And, %i*, i% th#t the t"e !- thin7 th#t i- /*+ J#8%!n :e*e 7ien "*!"e* t*e#t.ent -!* hi% #dditi!n, th#t th#t t"e !-

.!ti#ti!n -!* hi% hi$d*en, !u$d th#t h#e 7!tten hi. th*!u7h the *!u7h "#the% d!:n the $ine

/! Ce*t#in$ !ne !u$d "!%it th#t th#t :!u$d 5e hi7h$ !nt*i5ut!* t!+ The*e i% .!*e t! it th#n th#t, 5ut th#t :!u$d"!%it th#t+

.! And %!, !u 8n!:, un$i8e %!.e #ddit% :h! .# n!t t! u%e # e* %i."$e e6"*e%%i!n, .# n!t h#e # $!t t! $ie-!* in te*.% !- -#.i$ !* #*ee*, /*+ J#8%!n :#% n!t th#t :#, !**et


20/22

/! Th#t% !**et+

.! I- /*+ J#8%!n h#d 5een 7ien #""*!"*i#te t*e#t.ent #nd h#d he #e"ted th#t, he !u$d h#e #t $e#%t "e*h#"% 7!tten!e* the hu." !n the *!#d t! *e!e*, !**et

/! Th#t !u #*e #%%u.in7 $!t% !- di--e*ent #*i#5$e%+ And I thin8 th#t the*e #*e !the* #*i#5$e% t! #!unt -!* hi%"*!7n!%i% $!n7 te*., 5ut hi% $!e -!* hi% hi$d*en #nd hi% dedi#ti!n t! hi% hi$d*en :!u$d e*t#in$ he$"+

.! And, %i*, did !u %ee #nthin7 in the *e!*d th#t :#% 7ien t! !u th#t the *e#%!n th#t /*+ J#8%!n :#% d!in7 the?Thi% I% It? t!u* :#% 5e#u%e !- hi% hi$d*en

/! I *e.e.5e* %!.e %t#te.ent% in the *e!*d th#t indi#ted th#t he :#nted t! h#e hi% hi$d*en %ee hi. "e*-!*. :henthe :e*e !- #7e t! *e.e.5e* th#t #nd th#t he :#nted t! 5e # 7!!d d#d #nd #n e6#."$e+

.! And :h#t i% ?#dditi!n .e.!*?

/! ?Additi!n .e.!*? i% # "h*#%e th#t # "h*#%e th#t I !ined+ It% n!t in the 7ene*#$ "#*$#ne !- #dditi!n :!*8, 5utit% . e--!*t t! 5*in7 it int! the -!*e+ ;h#t h#""en% :hen !ne 5e!.e% #ddited i% dee" neu*#$ i*uit% ent*#in the 5*#int! "*e%e*e the 5eh#i!*%, :hih .#8e %u*e th#t the #dditi!n !ntinue%, %uh #% i- %!.e!ne -ind% !ut th#t the th#tee* ti.e the 7! t! J!hn S.ith% h!u%e, the #n 7et hd*!!d!ne, the #n "u*h#%e hd*!!d!ne, the *!ute t! J!hnS.ith% h!u%e i% dee"$ e.5edded in the 5*#in+ It *et*#in% the 5*#in t! %ee th#t #% i."!*t#nt+ It %et% *e%et% # hi7h"*i!*it+ And it% :h#t% #$$ed "*!edu*#$ $e#*nin7+ The 5*#in $ite*#$$ $e#*n% un!n%i!u%$ h!: t! en%u*e th#t the d*u7%u""$ i% .#int#ined+ And it i% . 5e$ie- i% thi% i% !ne !- the *ui#$ #%"et% !- #dditi!n, #nd un:indin7 i% # *ui#$thin7 t! d! in t*e#t.ent+

.! And %!, %i*, I %#: !n !ne !- the ide!% !n !u* :e5%ite, !u :e*e t#$8in7 #5!ut #dditi!n .e.!* #nd !u u%ed #n

e6#."$e !- %!.e!ne :h! i% #n #$!h!$i #nd the .i7ht h#e 5een !-- #$!h!$ -!* # :hi$e #nd the*e d*iin7 h!.e -*!.:!*8 #nd the ne6t thin7 the 8n!:, the #*e @u%t in the "#*8in7 $!t !- thei* !$d 5#*+

/! !u *e#$$ did :#th th#t ide!, didnt !u e%, th#t i% . u%u#$ e6#."$e+

.! S! :ith /ih#e$ J#8%!n, :!u$d it 5e, t! %!*t !- "ut it in $#"e*%!n% te*.%, :hen he -!und hi.%e$- :ith # d!t!*,th#t %!*t !- t*i77e*ed hi% un!n%i!u% de%i*e -!* the d*u7%

/! e%+ And :e een h#e # -e: e6#."$e% !- th#t in th#t in !ne #%e, he t!$d I 5e$iee it :#% )*+ Ad#.% I d!nt

:#nt !"i#te%, d!nt 7ie .e #n )e.e*!$, #nd then 5 the end !- the "*!edu*e, he #%8ed -!* )e.e*!$+ And %! th#t :#% #t*i77e*in7 !- thi% i*uit thi% it% # !nditi!ned ue *#in7, %!.ethin7 in the eni*!n.ent, 5ein7 #*!und the, d!t!*t*i77e*ed hi. t! th#t 8ind !- un!n%i!u% d*ie t! -ind :#% !- #nd .e#n% !- 7ettin7 .!*e+

.! And, %i*, :hi$e #nd, %i*, 5e-!*e :e 7! !n E6hi5it , 5#8 !n 5#8 !n #dditi!n .e.!*, !u 5*!u7ht u" thee"i%!de :ith )*+ Ad#.% :he*e /*+ J#8%!n %t#*ted !ut %#in7 d!nt 7ie .e the !"i!d% #nd then 5 the end, he :#%5e77in7 -!* the., *i7ht

/! 'e77in7 i% #-te* !e*%t#te.ent, 5ut he e*t#in$ *eue%ted the., e%+


21/22

.! And, !u 8n!:, i% th#t %!.ethin7 !u h#d .enti!ned 5e-!*e #5!ut te#hin7 the #ddit t!!$% t! %! the #n %t!"it :hen the n!tie th#t the*e un!n%i!u%$ *e#hin7 !ut -!* the d*u7%, !**et

/! C!**et, e%+

.! And i% th#t the 8ind !- t!!$% th#t !u t#u7ht #t the T#$5!tt Re!e* t! #ddit%

/! C!**et+

.! And %! :h#t !u 8n!:, :h#t :!u$d !u te#h %!.e5!d :ith #n !"i!d #dditi!n #5!ut :h#t t!!$% :!u$d !ut* t! 7ie the. %! the !u$d n!tie :hen the :e*e *e#hin7 !ut

/! ;e$$, I. n!t %u""!%ed t! %# #nthin7 -unn in # de"!%iti!n, 5ut the -i*%t thin7 he %h!u$d d! i% #!id d!t!*%,5e#u%e un-!*tun#te$, d!t!*% 5e#.e # d*u7 %!u*e -!* hi.+ S! the -i*%t thin7 !u d! i% !u t* t! e$i.in#te the hi7h*i%8 %itu#ti!n+ The hi7h*i%8 %itu#ti!n -!* hi., un-!*tun#te$, :#% 5ein7 #*!und "h%ii#n%, "h%ii#n% :h! h#e #"*e%*i"ti!n "#d, "h%ii#n% :h! #n :*ite the%e %u5%t#ne%+

.! And I 8n!: n! hu.#n *e#$$ #n #!id d!t!*% -!* thei* :h!$e $i-e+ S! it :!u$d 5e th#t he @u%t !n$ 7! t! d!t!*%:hen #5%!$ute$ nee%%#*+

/! On$ :hen nee%%#*+ And :hen he :!u$d need t! 7! t! # "h%ii#n, he :!u$d "*e"#*e hi.%e$- -!* th#t en!unte*8n!:in7 th#t thi% un!n%i!u% d*ie :!u$d %h!: u"+ It% #.5i#$ene+ On !ne h#nd, he :#% @u%t #% %ine*e #t the5e7innin7 %#in7 ?)!nt 7ie .e #n )e.e*!$? #% he :#% #t the end %#in7 ?I :#nt the )e.e*!$+? And th#t% "#*t !- t*#"th#t he :#% in *e7#*din7 thi% #dditi!n+

.! S! it "*!5#5$ :#% n!t # 7!!d ide#, %!*t !- "#*#d!6i#$$, th#t he h#d # -u$$ti.e, 24h!u* d!t!* :ith hi., !**et

"'E 0,"NE11% !u 8n!:, I thin8 th#t h#in7 # d!t!* :ith hi. :h! h#% # "*e%*i"ti!n "#d i% #n 5e # hi7h*i%8%itu#ti!n un$e%% "*!"e*$ "*e"#*ed -!* it in %!.e!ne :h! i% he.i#$$ de"endent+

.! S! 5#%ed !n !u* *eie: !- *e!*d% in the #%e, did !u %ee #n eidene th#t #n d!t!* !the* th#n )*+ C!n*#d/u**# 7#e /ih#e$ J#8%!n "*!"!-!$ du*in7 the $#%t t:! .!nth% !- hi% $i-e

/! I %#: n!thin7 in the *e!*d #5!ut #n!ne e$%e 7iin7 hi. "*!"!-!$ in the $#%t t:! .!nth% !- hi% $i-e+

/*+ '!$e #%8ed !u, in e%%ene, !u 8n!:, :!u$d it 5e *i7ht t! 5$#.e /*+ J#8%!n -!* hi% de#th+ And !u %"!8e #5!utth#t -*!. !u* "e*%"etie #% #n #dditi!n "h%ii#n+ And d! !u *e#$$ th#t te%ti.!n

/! e%+

.! And @u%t t! 5e $e#*, :e*e !u %"e#8in7 #t #$$ -*!. # $e7#$ "e*%"etie the*e

/! I :#% n!t+

.! )! !u h#e #n $e7#$ !"ini!n% #5!ut -#u$t -!* /ih#e$ J#8%!n% de#th


22/22

/! A5%!$ute$ n!t+ I #. n!t # $#:e*+ N!* d! I unde*%t#nd the $#:+

.! And !u #$%! te%ti-ied th#t 5ein7 #*!und "h%ii#n% :#% %!*t !- # hi7h *i%8 -!* %!.e!ne $i8e /*+ J#8%!n+ )! !u*e#$$ th#t te%ti.!n

/! I d!+

.! )! !u thin8 th#t th#t .e#n% th#t it :#%nt #""*!"*i#te -!* /ih#e$ J#8%!n t! h#e .edi#$ #*e

/! N!, th#t i% n!t :h#t th#t .e#n%+ A$$ th#t I .e#nt 5 th#t te%ti.!n :#% th#t hi% th#t 5ein7 #*!und "h%ii#n%:!u$d t*i77e* d*u7 *#in7 in#de*tent$, #nd the -#t th#t the*e :#% the "!:e* di--e*enti#$ :#% ine*ted+ In !the* :!*d%,"h%ii#n% :!u$d /*+ J#8%!n :!u$d 5e in the "!:e* %e#t :ith "h%ii#n% 5e#u%e !- hi% in*edi5$e %t#tu%+ Th!%ethin7% "$#ed hi. #t hi7h *i%8 -!* !ntinued u%e !* *e$#"%e i- he h#d ee* !5t#ined %u5%t#ntie *e!e*+

.! And, %i*, in th#t di%u%%i!n th#t !u %#id %!.ethin7 th#t #u7ht . inte*e%t+ !u %#id !ne !- the #*din#$ %i7n% !-"e!"$e :h! h#e #dditi!n i% th#t the h#e %h#.e #5!ut thei* #dditi!n, *i7ht

/! C!**et+

.! And %i.i$#*$, the h#e %e$-$!#thin7, !**et

/! The %h#.e "*!due% %e$-$!#thin7 in .#n indiidu#$%, e%+

Documents

Katherine Jackson V AEG Live, Transcripts of Video depo of Dr Paul Early June 19th & June 24th 2013