Lenny White

©TRAPS 2008

© TRAPS 2008

trapsmagazine.com Summer 2008 TRAPS 25

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 25

26 TRAPS Summer 2008 trapsmagazine.com

mighty left bicep. “Rotary cuff surgery,” heexplains. “I had orthoscopic back on Sep-tember 20. They didn’t replace the shoul-der; they just went in there and cleaned itout. All the muscles in my right shoulderatrophied and I’ve been trying to build itback up for the last four months. I hadnothing … zero, man. I couldn’t play for 30seconds on a pad it was so bad. And so I’vebeen getting it back gradually.”

The shoulder injury, however, didn’tprevent White from flying to Los Angelesthe previous week to participate in re-hearsals and a group photo session inpreparation for the much-anticipated Re-turn To Forever reunion tour (June 1–Au-gust 10 in the United States and Europe).And his RTF bandmates – Chick Corea,Stanley Clarke, and Al Di Meola – barelynoticed any difference in his playing. “Ihadn’t played in four months,” he ex-plains. “My first playing since the surgerywas when I went out to L.A. and did thething with Return To Forever. But it waslike riding a bike, man. And it was greatjust to go and play that music again. Just toget an opportunity to reinvestigate some-thing that you did before – that’s exciting.”

At the time of this interview, White stillhad a few more months of physical ther-

apy before embarking on a whirlwind2008 summer tour with Return To For-ever. Given the demanding nature of thosepulse-quickening, chops-busting RTFscores from the ’70s, he’ll need to be inpeak condition to cut all the intricate, stop-time unison lines and intense, precisionfills around the kit that defined the band(and a genre) more than 30 years ago.

For fusion fans, the prospect of ReturnTo Forever getting back together againafter all these years (the group dis-banded in 1976) is akin to a Beatles re-union, and for the past few decadesseemed about as unlikely. Corea was thelone holdout in recent years. WhileClarke, Di Meola, and White had beenlobbying for an RTF reunion, the threewere unable to persuade Corea to takeup the cause, until now. “I think thereare a lot of reasons why it got resolved,”reflects White. “You know, iron wearsout ... eventually. And I think it just gotto a point where Chick realized, ‘Hey,man, why not?’”

While the individual members hadbeen busy carrying on with their own re-spective bands and undertaking variouscreative projects on the side, White

LENNY WHITE

CHAPTER ONE RTF (SLIGHT RETURN)

In the basement of his New Jersey home, located just minutes fromManhattan across the George Washington Bridge, Lenny White isshowing off his bicep. “Feel this,” he says, making a fist and flexinghis left arm. It is rock hard and bulging, like Schwarzenegger circa hisPumping Iron days. Not bad for a guy who is closing in on 60 (he’ll be

59 on December 19 of this year). “Now feel this,” he says, offering his rightbicep for inspection. It is half the size with none of the musculature of that

RTF rehearsal

circa 1974

26-39 Lenny 3/21/08 5:36 PM Page 26

sensed a Return To Forever reunionmight have larger implications than justfour brilliant virtuosos getting back to-gether to play “Hymn Of The SeventhGalaxy,” “Song To The Pharaoh Kings,”and “The Romantic Warrior” once again.“It seemed like the right time for this,”says the lefty drummer. “I think the cir-cumstances now warrant for somethingto happen, an event that would hopefullygalvanize the creative end of improvisedmusic again on a grand scale. And thisReturn To Forever reunion could be thatevent. The synergy of these four guys get-ting back together and doing it, I think,can really make a spark and cause peopleto say, ‘Wow, maybe it’s cool to play thismusic again. Let’s do this!’”

With the exception of the MahavishnuOrchestra (whose original members –John McLaughlin, Billy Cobham, JanHammer, Jerry Goodman, and Rick Laird– are still very much alive and kicking,though existing in different orbits thesedays), Return To Forever is the last of theMohicans from the golden era of fusion(roughly 1969–1977). As White notes,“Weather Report can’t get back togetherbecause Joe Zawinul’s not here, unfortu-nately, and Jaco [Pastorius]’s not here, un-fortunately. Tony Williams is not hereanymore, so there won’t be any Lifetimereunion. Miles Davis is not here anymore.And I don’t know what’s happening withJohn [McLaughlin] and Billy [Cobham]regarding any possible Mahavishnu re-union. But maybe this RTF reunion couldeven jump-start that, you know?

“I’m looking forward to playing thatmusic again with those guys,” White con-tinues. “I listen back to some of the liveversions of some of the stuff back in theday and there were some real deep thingsthere. My brother took some footage in ’74and ’75 of that band, and one of the seg-ments is us playing ‘Green Dolphin Street,’and it’s killing! It’s jazz! The rhythm sec-tion is definitely coming from that place,and the band is also flexible enough to takeit into this high-energy realm of fusion.And of course, all these years later we’reindividually better players on our instru-ments. We’ve all gone through so manydifferent experiences in music and in lifesince then. We’ve grown, and that’s boundto be reflected in the music. So now it willbe interesting to see how we interpret theold tunes from 30 years ago.”


26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 27


with Count Basie and Duke Ellington.And so I got an education in this musicby listening to his records.”

In a regular Sunday ritual at the Whitehousehold, family and friends would gettogether to eat and sit around listening tojazz records. “My father and his friendswould debate on who was better,” Whitesays. “Was Sonny Stitt cleaner than Bird?Was Clifford Brown faster than Diz? AndI would take all that in. But at the sametime I would listen to the music of mygeneration on the radio. That’s where Iheard The Drifters, James Brown, TheCoasters, Martha Reeves And The Van-dellas. Later on it was Marvin Gaye andall the Motown stuff, The Beatles andJimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley and FrankieValli. I listened to all different kinds ofmusic coming up.”

Between the ages of 12 and 13 White ac-quired two things: his own drum kit andhis first case of puppy love. “Her namewas Antonia and she said her dad was amusician,” he recalls. “They lived nearbyon Mexico Street in St. Alban’s, the nextneighborhood over from Jamaica. At somepoint I asked her, ‘What instrument doesyour dad play?’ and she told me he playedsaxophone. So I asked what his name wasand she said, ‘John Coltrane.’” Antonia,sometimes called Syeeda by her Muslimmother, Naima, was five years old and fa-therless when Naima met Coltrane. Anto-nia and her mother took Coltrane’s namea year later when Naima and John werewed in 1955. In 1959, the same year theymoved to St. Alban’s, Queens, Coltranewould name one of his tunes from his Gi-ant Steps album, “Syeeda’s Song Flute,” af-ter his stepdaughter.

In his earliest years of playing, Whitenaturally gravitated toward playingleft-handed on the kit. “The story is thatI was born left-handed and then when Iwent to school they switched me aroundand made me write right-handed. Today

I eat left-handed, talk on the telephonewith my left hand, I throw right-handed, bat right-handed, shoot basketsright-handed. My brain is wired to doall those things and to play the ridecymbal with my left hand. Billy Cob-ham plays like that, so does CarterBeauford. But every once in a while Iwill switch over and play somethingright-handed, even though you have toreprogram your brain to do that. Mybrother has some film footage of me

playing one of Stanley’s tunes with Re-turn To Forever back in the day called‘Lopsy Lu,’ and I’m playing that beatright-handed. And I also play brushesright-handed, so go figure.”

By 1965, at age 15, White began playingdrums professionally. “There was a placedown the street from my house calledClub Ruby,” he recalls. “My first bandplayed there and they passed around thehat. That was the first time I made moneyplaying music.” A year later, a veterankeyboard player named Weldon Irvinecame from Virginia to settle in Jamaica,Queens and soon became a mentor figurefor White and other young, aspiringplayers around the neighborhood, in-cluding saxophonist Bennie Maupin andtrumpeter Charles Tolliver. By 1966, theybanded together to participate in a JazzInteractions competition, vying with

other young bands for the opportunity toplay for a gig at Art D’Lugoff’s famousVillage Gate in the heart of GreenwichVillage. A group called The Jazz Sumari-tans – which included bassist ClintHouston, saxophonist Steve Grossman,pianist George Cables, and a gifted youngPanamanian-born drummer named BillyCobham – won the ultimate prize. WhenCobham left to join the Horace SilverQuintet, White replaced him in the JazzSumaritans. And when he wasn’t giggingwith that promising young outfit, Whitehoned his drumming vocabulary by jam-ming with friends.

“We used to have jam sessions inGeorge Cables’ basement,” he recalls.“That was one of the advantages of livingin Queens. We all had basements, whichgave all the young guys a place to get to-gether and play and work their stuff outon their instruments. That’s what I’d dowhen I was like 15, 16 years old. Insteadof having parties where you ask yourmom and dad if you could have peoplecome over and listen to records anddance and stuff, guys would come overfor these jam sessions. We’d fix the base-ment up like a nightclub and we’d justplay. My dad had a coworker who was acousin of [tenor saxophonist] Albert and[trumpeter] Donny Ayler, so they’d comeby to play at these sessions. And then[tenor saxophonist] Syl Austin was a bigfamily friend, so he’d drop by too. So itwas a really cool neighborhood scene.”

During this time, White also beganpicking up work with Weldon Irvine.“One of my first gigs with Weldon wasbacking [R&B singer] Millie Jackson,” herecalls. “And man, I had never playedanything like that before. But Weldonsaid to me, ‘Listen, just play on the hi-hat, play backbeat and you’ll be cool.’And he was right.”

While attending the High School OfArt & Design in Manhattan, White gothis first opportunity to see John Coltraneperform. It turned out to be a memorableexperience for the aspiring musician,providing one of many musical epipha-nies to come. “I was 16 years old and Itook the subway by myself into Manhat-tan to see Trane playing at a ‘Titans OfTenor’ show at Philharmonic Hall [Feb-ruary 19, 1966]. He was there with SonnyRollins, Coleman Hawkins, Zoot Sims,and Yusef Lateef. Trane had his Ascension

CHAPTER TWO JAMAICA BOY MAKES GOOD

Growing up in the musically rich environment of the Jamaica dis-trict in the borough of Queens, a long subway ride away frombustling Manhattan, White was immersed in jazz from an earlyage. “My dad was a real big Lester Young fan,” he recalls. “Hewas in the Army with Lester Young, though Lester was a little

older than him. But musically, he went from Prez [Lester Young’s nickname,bestowed by Billie Holiday] to John Coltrane. Those were his guys, along

“Philly says to me, ‘Yeah,Len, you sounded ...something.’ So after Ipicked my face up off ofthe floor, I had to thinkabout what he meant ”

LENNY WHITE

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 28


band with Rashied Ali and J.C. Moseson drums, Alice [Coltrane] on piano,and John Tchicai on alto sax. And I’llnever forget, man – after the concert itwas like I was walking on air.”

The following year, one of White’s hip-per friends at school turned him on to arecord by Miles Davis that registeredwith him deeply for a very specific rea-son. “It was Seven Steps To Heaven,” he re-calls, “and it just so happens that thedrummer on that album was 17 years oldat the time of the recording [May 1963].And I was 17 years old at that time. Soright away I figured, ‘That’s who I got tobe like.’ It was Tony Williams. Andwhen I heard him play on that record, Iheard all the drummers who came be-fore him. I heard Max [Roach] and ArtBlakey, Elvin [Jones] and Louis Hayesand Philly Joe [Jones]. But I also heardthe future of where drumming was go-ing to go. I heard the history, the present,and the future of drumming all com-bined into one guy! And I said, ‘Whew!That’s my guy!’ And from that point on Ilistened to every Miles Davis record Icould get my hands on, old and new.”

White remains steadfast to this day inhis admiration for the late, great drummer.“Tony Williams is a genius, man,” he says.“My affectionate name for him is GodDrums. Ron Carter is God Bass, he’sGod Drums. He was the closest thing tobeing perfect in the sense of playing thewhole kit and taking what he played tosuch a great, high musical level. Thereare a lot of people who are very profi-cient at playing the drums and playinggreat. Buddy Rich was truly amazing atwhat he could do with the drum kit. Butjust from a musical standpoint whatTony played, to me, transcended drums.And there was so much technique inwhat he did. You could listen to or watchone of his solos and have enough of atechnique lesson to last you for years. Towatch Tony Williams and hear the musicthat he played in a solo or what he playedwithin the music – it’s just untouchable.”

He’s quick to point out that Williams’influence is still felt today. “It’s just amaz-ing the effect he’s had on drummers.Tony made such an impact from ages 17to 22, during the five years that he waswith Miles. The influence that he hadover the drums during those five years islike Jimi Hendrix with the guitar or John

Coltrane with the saxophone. And thenwhen you think about what he did afterMiles, with Lifetime, it’s just incredible.”

As a young developing player findinghis own way in the music, White got therare opportunity to hang with and absorbwisdom from several master jazz drum-mers on the New York scene. “Roy Haynes,Pete LaRoca, Philly Joe Jones, and Buhaina[Art Blakey] all let me sit in on their gigswhen I was like 17, 18 years old,” he says.“They told me certain things that helpedshape how I look at the music and how Iplay the music. And there’s a big differ-ence from listening to an album of theirs,or now looking at a video, and actuallytalking to and interacting with your he-roes. These guys shared their knowledgewith me, and I’ve always felt connected tosomething larger because of that.”

He cites a memorable case that tookplace at New York’s most hallowed jazzclub, the Village Vanguard. “Buhaina wasalways great to me, really a champion,and he let me and Steve Grossman sit inwith the Jazz Messengers one night. Sowe played and thought that we were do-

ing great. But then on the break I go backinto the kitchen at the Vanguard whereall the musicians hang out after the set,and there’s Philly Joe Jones. So hero num-ber one is letting me play his drums andhero number two is in the audience lis-tening. And Philly says to me, ‘Yeah, Len,you sounded ... something.’ So after Ipicked my face up off of the floor, I had tothink about what he meant by that.”

Shortly after that humbling experience,White was back at the Vanguard playingwith Freddie Hubbard. “Now, Freddiewas complaining that I was playing tooloud during the set. But on the break I goback in the kitchen and Philly Joe’s backthere again, and he says to me, ‘Yeah, Len!Now that’s what I’m talkin’ ’bout! Man, Iused to make Miles’ lips bleed, I played soloud.’ So I was vindicated, you know?And these kinds of reactions and interac-tions with guys who were my heroes arethe things you just can’t pick up by learn-ing the music from the records. It placesyou in a whole cultural context. It’s why Ifeel jazz is part of my heritage rather thanjust a musical style.”

DRUMS Innovation Drum CompanyVirtuoso Series: 14" x 5.5" snare, 22" x18" bass drum, 12" x 8" and 13" x 9"mounted toms, and 14" x 14", 16" x16", and 18" x 16" floor toms.

CYMBALS Istanbul Agop: 14" hi-hat,17", 18", and 19" crashes, 22" LennyWhite Signature Epoch RideCymbal

HEADS Remo

STICKS Vic Firth Signature

HARDWARE Vintage Gretschfloating-action chain-driven pedal

LENNY WHITE’S TRAPS

26-39 Lenny 3/21/08 5:36 PM Page 29


there through the whole gig. After wefinished playing he’d take me backhome. The next morning I’d wake upand go to school, he’d wake up andwould have to go to work again. Thatwas our routine for a while.”

McLean’s band included bassist ScottyHolt, pianist Harold Mabern, and trum-peter Woody Shaw, who was fast build-ing a reputation as an outstandingimproviser and composer in his ownright. And hovering over White duringhis tenure with McLean’s band was asense of inevitability of where it mightlead. “Everybody kept telling me, ‘Man,Tony played with Jackie, and from Jackiehe went to Miles. And Jack DeJohnetteplayed with Jackie, and from Jackie hewent to Miles. So you’re going to playwith Miles next.’”

White explains that it was actuallyanother colleague of Davis’ who even-tually tipped the trumpeter to White’splaying in the summer of 1969. “It justso happened that I played a gig inQueens at a place called the Afrodisiacwith Rashied Ali, and there was atrumpet player on the gig who I used tosee all the time with Miles. His namewas Dion. And on the break he said tome, ‘Man, has Miles ever heard youplay?’ I said no and he said, ‘I’m goingto tell him about you.’ And I was like,‘Yeah, yeah, right, sure, whatever.’ Andsure enough, I got a call from Milesshortly after that gig to come over andrehearse at his house.”

In the company of Chick Corea, DaveHolland, Jack DeJohnette, and WayneShorter, White rehearsed just one pieceat Davis’ house on Manhattan’s UpperWest Side. “I brought a snare drum andJack had a snare drum and a cymbal. Wewent through the first half of ‘BitchesBrew,’ and when we were through Milessaid, ‘Okay, be at Columbia studios to-morrow at 10:00 A.M.’”

For the next three days (August 19–21,1969), White and a crew of a dozen or soother musicians recorded what wouldbecome Bitches Brew. The sessions wereessentially an exercise in abstract collec-tive improvisation with Davis directingthe proceedings like some kind of sor-cerer stirring a big pot. As White recalls,“During the session we’d get a groove go-ing and then Miles would point to JohnMcLaughlin or Chick or Bennie Maupinor someone and stop the band, and thatperson would play for a while until he’dstart up the whole band again. It was anexperience, man.”

White had worked in two-drummersituations before in Queens, so playingalongside fellow drummer DeJohnettewas no problem. Percussionists DonAlias and Jumma Santos were also onthe session for those three days and, infact, on the second day White switchedplaces with Alias on “Miles Runs TheVoodoo Down.” As he recalls, “Mileswanted to have, like, a funk beat on thatpiece and I started playing all this slickstuff because, you know, I’m a TonyWilliams fan and I’m playing with MilesDavis so I wanted to show off my stuff.But I out-thought myself. Instead of justplaying a simple beat, I was overplaying.And Miles pointed that out to me in nouncertain terms. He said, ‘No, no, youain’t gettin’ the chicken.’ So Alias satdown at my drum set and said, ‘Miles, Igot this beat that might work,’ and heplays this simple kind of funky New Or-leans beat. And that’s what ended up on‘Miles Runs The Voodoo Down.’ I woundup playing percussion on that song in-stead of playing drums. And I learned a

valuable lesson from that. I learned thatyou can’t outthink yourself, that youshould just do what somebody asks youto do, what’s needed and wanted. Don’ttry to do more than that.”

White was in San Francisco workingwith vibraphonist Buddy Montgomery(brother of Monk and Wes Montgomery)when Bitches Brew was released as a dou-ble album in the Spring of 1970. It washis first recording and he was thrilled tosee his own name prominently listedamong his heroes. “As a kid, I alwayswanted to see my name on an albumcover,” he says. “In fact, on the back ofone of my Dave Brubeck records where itlists the personnel – Dave Brubeck, PaulDesmond, Eugene Wright, Joe Morello –I added ‘and Lenny White’ in pen, be-cause I just wanted to see my name on analbum cover.

“So when Bitches Brew finally came outI went to a record store to see it. Unfortu-nately, the guy was closing down but Ireally had to see it so I knocked on thewindow and said, ‘Please, can you just

show me the album cover?’ And he heldthe album cover up in the window andright away I noticed that the names inorder were Miles Davis, trumpet, WayneShorter, saxophone, Lenny White,drums. I’m the third name on there! Andit freaked me out, man. I was like, ‘Wow!I finally got my name on an album andit’s with Miles Davis!’”

Around this same time, Tony WilliamsLifetime was beginning to make an impacton the burgeoning jazz-rock scene with itsslash and burn, proto-punk approach tothe traditional jazz organ trio (with theyoung British electric guitar sensationJohn McLaughlin, and Hammond B-3 vet-eran Larry Young). Williams had leftDavis’ band in February, 1969, afterrecording In A Silent Way and three monthslater (on May 26 and 28) recorded hisgroundbreaking debut with Lifetime, theaptly-named Emergency!, which was re-leased in the early fall of 1969.

White had seen this volatile new bandplay at Slug’s on the Lower East Side afew times before their debut record

CHAPTER THREE BITCHES BREW & BEYOND

In 1968, at age 18, White began gigging with the renowned alto saxo-phonist and Blue Note recording artist, Jackie McLean. “Through play-ing with the Jazz Sumaritans and sitting in with different people I hadgotten somewhat of a name around town,” he says. “Jackie had calledmy house and talked to my mom and dad about me playing in his

band. I was still going to school and living at home with my parents, so mydad would take me to the gigs after a full day of working his job. And he’d sit

“It freaked me out, man. I was like, ‘Wow! I finallygot my name on an album and it’s with Miles Davis!’”

LENNY WHITE

26-39 Lenny 3/21/08 11:06 AM Page 30


mended White. For that CTI session atRudy Van Gelder’s legendary studio inEnglewood Cliffs, New Jersey, Whitebrought along an old oil can bass drumthat was made by a mutual friend ofSteve Grossman and Elvin Jones. “It wasthe drum I had used on Bitches Brew and Iwas planning on using it for Red Clay,” hesays, “but when I set up my drums in thestudio and hit that oil can bass drum,Ron Carter said, ‘No man, you can’t use

that. It’s too resonant, you’re not going tohear the bass.’ So Rudy goes over andgets this 26" bass drum that has a paint-ing of a moonlit lake on the front head.And I hated it. I didn’t listen to thatrecord for years because I hated the wayI sounded on it. Years later I learned that[drummer] Gus Johnson had set thatbass drum up for Rudy at his studio, sothere’s some history there, I suppose.But I still hated it.”

came out. “Lifetime was already hap-pening around the same time thatBitches Brew was being recorded,” heremembers. “There were bands that pio-neered that direction earlier. I knowCannonball Adderley was doing someelectric stuff and I know that Gary Bur-ton and Chico Hamilton and otherbands were exploring in that same area.But it all crystallized, to me, with Life-time. And when I heard that band it waslike, ‘Whoa! You got to be kidding me!What is this?!’ Because it was such anew and different sound. It had the in-clusion of these rock and roll-type influ-ences, but it was still jazz. They werestill playing straight-ahead stuff andthey were swinging and burning, butthen John would break into a guitar solowith a grungy rock sound and theywould head off into these freak-outjams. But at its core it was still an organtrio, which is straight-up jazz. So all thismusic was fusing together and it was sopowerful. When I saw them play atSlug’s, it changed my life. I mean, I wascompletely blown away. That bandturned everybody’s heads around.”

In October 1969 White was given hisfirst opportunity to play a gig with MilesDavis’ working band. “Miles liked theway I played and he wanted me to subfor Jack DeJohnette for a week in Boston.Jack’s wife, Lydia, was going to have herfirst child and he wanted to stay homewith her, so Miles arranged for me to bethere.” But the next night (October 10)Davis was shot by a mysterious gunmanwhile sitting in his Ferrari in Brooklynand the gig was cancelled. “So my oppor-tunity to play with Miles on the roadnever happened.”

Shortly after that missed opportunity,White recorded with pianist-composerAndrew Hill in November 1969. Thetapes were shelved by Blue Note Recordsand forgotten, only to be rediscovered 32years later and ultimately released towidespread acclaim in 2003 as PassingShips. In January 1970 White played onanother jazz classic, trumpeter FreddieHubbard’s Red Clay, which featured astellar cast of Herbie Hancock on piano,Ron Carter on bass, and Joe Hendersonon tenor saxophone. According toWhite, Hubbard had originally calledTony Williams for the session butWilliams couldn’t make it and recom-

“He was in the city all thetime. He had that vibe.”That’s Stanley Clarke re-

calling his first encounters with drum-mer Lenny White in New York City. “Itwas the late ’60s, early ’70s when I metLenny for the first time. I think I wasplaying with Horace Silver at Slug’s,and I believe Lenny came to the show.

“Funny, but at the time, me beingyoung, I was new to the ambience ofthe city’s night life, the drugs. I was19 or 20, Lenny was 19 going on 40.We hung out and became friends in-stantly. In a lot of ways he was like abig brother to me, me being fromPhilly. There are many stories ofLenny saving me from the perils ofthe big city,” Clarke laughs. “Onetime, when I was playing with JoeHenderson, a guy pulled a gun on me.I was so pissed, Lenny put his handover the gun to stop everything. Helater scolded me, saying, ‘That guycould’ve shot you!”

It was during such trying and ad-venturous times that Clarke andWhite built a partnership that foundmusical expression with Return ToForever. It’s a partnership that’s stoodthe test of time. “It was a funny situ-ation,” he remembers of those earlydays. “When we started doing thefull electric thing, I think Chickwanted Steve Gadd in the band. But Ithought Lenny was a better choice. Iused to talk to Chick about Lenny,telling him, ‘You got to get Lenny.You got to get Lenny!’”

When he talks about playing withWhite, Clarke is just short of effu-sive. “Out of all the drummers I’veplayed with Lenny has been themost musical, the one who under-stands the language of the music,”says the bassist. “There are drum-

mers who are tremendous techni-cians. [With RTF] Lenny could dosome of that Billy Cobham stuff, butLenny’s playing was the most musi-cal of them all.

“The way that Lenny approachedthe ‘Medieval Overture’ on Roman-tic Warrior – you look at the wayChick wrote it, [and] the way Lennyplayed it – they are two differentthings. Chick wrote it that way so we

could read it, but Lenny played it soit would sound better. You couldhave another drummer play thatpart and have it never sound likeLenny made it sound. Lenny gets itnaturally. It’s really cool. Jack De-Johnette is like that; Tony Williamswas like that. With Lenny White, Idon’t feel like I’m playing with adrummer but with a musician.”

By JOHN EPHL AND

STANLEY CLARKE

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 31


CHAPTER FOUR BIRTH OF A SUPERGROUP

Around late 1970 or early 1971 White met a gifted young bassplayer from Philadelphia whose career would become indeli-bly linked with the young drummer from that point forward. “Iwas playing with Joe Henderson at this point and Reggie John-son was playing bass in the band, but he decided he was going

to move to California so suddenly we needed a bass player,” White explains.“Well, I walked into Slug’s one night to see Horace Silver and heard this guy

playing electric bass who was killer.When the set was over I introduced my-self and learned that his name was Stan-ley Clarke. So I said to him, ‘Listen, JoeHenderson needs a bass player, wouldyou give him a call?’ And I gave him Joe’snumber. Stanley called Joe and got thegig, and that’s when we first startedplaying together. And since that timewe’ve had a lock up for the ages.”

Clarke and White first recorded to-gether on Henderson’s In Pursuit Of Black-ness, recorded in May 1971. The following

year, White got a call from percussionistCoke Escovedo to join Azteca, a newLatin-tinged fusion band forming in SanFrancisco. The group also includedtrumpeter Tom Harrell, saxophonist MelMartin, future Headhunters bassist PaulJackson, and guitarist Neal Schon. “CliveDavis signed us and premiered us at aconvention in London,” says White.“That was my first time being out of thecountry and I’m thinking, ‘Well, I’m go-ing to be a big rock star now.’”

Shortly after Azteca released its self-titled debut in 1972, White got a call frompianist Chick Corea, whom he hadknown from the Bitches Brew sessions andwho had a successful release himself thatyear in Light As A Feather with his newband, Return To Forever (Stanley Clarkeon bass, Joe Farrell on sax and flute, AirtoMoreira on drums, and Flora Purim onvocals). “Chick says to me, ‘Listen Lenny,we’re coming to San Francisco and Airtoand Flora can’t make the gig. Can you do

a week at the Keystone Korner?’ And Isaid, ‘Yeah, sure, why not? I’m alreadyout here.’ So we played and it was unbe-lievable. Stanley played acoustic bass,Chick played Fender Rhodes and I playeddrums. We played all of that music fromtheir first album and on the last day, Sun-day, Chick invited two guitar players upto sit in, Barry Finnerty and Bill Connors.And it was really killing. I actually havetapes of that night.”

The kinetic energy of that last electri-fied night at the Keystone Korner

sparked something in Corea. As Whiterecalls, “After that gig, Chick said, ‘Lis-ten, man, I want to have an electric Re-turn To Forever and I want to get BillConnors and I want to know if you wantto do it.’ But I said, ‘No, Chick, I’m actu-ally doing this thing with Azteca and Ithink I’m going to stay and do this for awhile.’ So Chick went back to New Yorkand got Steve Gadd to work with theband instead of me.”

Azteca’s second album, Pyramid Of TheMoon, was recorded in late 1972 and bythe time it was released in 1973, Whitewas ready to make another move. “At thispoint I’m still in San Francisco but com-muting back and forth to New York. AndI find out that Herbie Herbert, the fa-mous manager, was putting a new bandtogether with some of the guys from San-tana. It was Ross Valory on bass, NealSchon on guitar, and they asked me tocome in and play a rehearsal just to seehow it felt. So the three of us got together

and hit it off and it was great. I have tapesof that too. They were also going to bringin Greg Rollie, who I knew from Santana,to play keyboards. So they said, ‘We lovethe way it sounds. Would you want to dothis band with us?’”

But fate would intercede. “Then Chickcalled again and says, ‘Listen, man, we’dreally like for you to join our band.’ So Isaid okay and went back to New York toplay with Return To Forever. If I hadstayed there in San Francisco, I would’vebeen the drummer with Journey, butthey ended up getting Ansley Dunbar toplay drums instead, and then later SteveSmith. And the rest is history.”

With White supplying his muscularbackbeats and Bill Connors providingthe distortion-laced guitar lines to thenewly electrified edition of RTF, Coreaand crew reached out to a young genera-tion of fans with challenging music thathad one foot in jazz, with rhythmic intri-cacies and harmonic sophistication, andone foot firmly planted in the rock camp,with sheer bombast and high energy.This more volatile lineup yielded HymnOf The Seventh Galaxy in 1973, and whenAl Di Meola replaced Connors in 1974they took the energy level up a notch onWhere Have I Known You Before, which in-cluded White’s composition, “TheShadow Of Lo.” This even more potentoutfit followed up in 1975 with theGrammy Award-winning No Mystery andin 1976 with Romantic Warrior, which waseasily their best-sounding album, yetturned out to be the group’s swan song.

“After Return To Forever broke up, JoeZawinul called and asked me to joinWeather Report,” White recalls. “Hesaid, ‘Listen man, Jaco asked me to callbecause he really likes your playing, andwe need somebody to play.’ [White hadplayed on Pastorius’ self-titled debut onEpic, which was released in April 1976].And I was very cordial about it and said,‘Joe, I’m very flattered that you asked,but I was just in a band and now I’m try-ing to get my own stuff out there.’ Andhe was cool about it.

“So I didn’t play with Weather Re-port, I didn’t play with Journey, and infact, back when we were recordingBitches Brew, Miles asked me did I wantto play with Jimi Hendrix. He said,‘Man, I can set you up,’ but I passed onthat one too. Jeez!”

“Back when we were recording Bitches Brew, Miles asked me did I want to play with JimiHendrix. He said, ‘Man, I can set you up,’ but Ipassed on that one too. Jeez!”

LENNY WHITE

26-39 Lenny 3/21/08 5:36 PM Page 32

flutist Hubert Laws, and guitarist RayGomez. A key collaborator on this futur-istic project was ARP 2600 synth wiz-ard Patrick Gleeson, who provided theeerie soundscape on “The VenusianSummer Suite,” an ambient piece dedi-cated to the crew of the Starship Enter-prise and reminiscent of the “electronictonalities” from the soundtrack to thesci-fi cult classic, Forbidden Planet. Theclosing track of White’s debut was“Prince Of The Sea,” an extended 11-minute piece that included a fiery guitarduel between fusion pioneer Larry

Coryell and his main disciple, RTF’syoung fretboard flash, Al Di Meola.

After his exit from RTF, White contin-ued in a hard-hitting fusion vein with1977’s Big City, which included membersof the Mahavishnu Orchestra, HerbieHancock’s Headhunters, Tower OfPower, Earth, Wind & Fire, BrianAuger’s Oblivion Express, and the NewYork Philharmonic Orchestra, alongwith Journey guitarist Neal Schon andan 18-year-old Marcus Miller on bass.His next release as a leader was 1978’sThe Adventures Of Astral Pirates, a master-

ful concept album created in the wake ofStar Wars mega-success at the box officethe previous year.

By 1979 White had taken fusion as faras he could. Forming a new band, Twen-nynine, he delved into the burgeoning ur-ban contemporary market with a stringof three releases that reflected influencesother than his jazzy roots. White scoredan R&B hit with the goofy P-Funk-ish an-them, “Peanut Butter,” from 1979’s Best OfFriends, and offered an answer to Chic’s“Le Freak” with his own “Twennynine(The Rap)” from 1981’s Just Like Dreamin’.

In 1982, White took time out from hisfunk duties for an acoustic bop date heproduced for Elektra Records that fea-tured an all-star cast of Corea on piano,Freddie Hubbard on trumpet, Joe Hen-derson on tenor sax, and Stanley Clarkeon upright bass. Titled Echoes Of An Era, italso showcased soul diva Chaka Khan inthe unexpected role of jazz vocalist, deliv-ering aggressively swinging renditions ofThelonious Monk’s “I Mean You” and

CHAPTER FIVE SOLO FLIGHTS

Before Return To Forever split up, White had already released hisown debut as a leader in 1975 on Nemperor Records. VenusianSummer was a highly ambitious undertaking that featured asprawling all-star cast, including Hammond B-3 organ legendJimmy Smith and former Lifetime organist Larry Young, along

with bassist Doug Rauch, pianist Onaje Allen Gumbs, White’s formerAzteca bandmate Tom Harrell on trumpet, keyboardist David Sancious,

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:24 PM Page 33


Duke Ellington’s “Take The A Train,”along with standards such as “All Of Me,”“Them There Eyes,” and “Spring Can Re-ally Hang You Up The Most.”

“I first met Chaka when I was still in Re-turn To Forever and she was with Rufus,”White explains. “Later on she did a ver-sion of ‘Lady Madonna’ on my Streamlinealbum from 1978, and we just stayed intouch. I’ve always loved what Chaka does.She had just put out a record with [pro-

ducer] Arif Mardin where they did a ver-sion of Dizzy’s ‘Night In Tunisia’ [on 1981’sWhat Cha’ Gonna Do For Me], and when Iheard that I said, ‘You know what? Shecan sing jazz; she can improvise.’ So I wentto [Elektra/Musician president] BruceLundvall’s office and said, ‘Bruce, I havean idea for a project. I want to recreate Bil-lie Holiday’s Lady Day Swings! sessionswith contemporary musicians. And Iwant to use Chaka Khan, Freddie Hub-

bard, Joe Henderson, Chick Corea, andStanley Clarke.’ The idea was to get all ofmy old employers on a project that I pro-duced. I wanted Jackie McLean on theretoo, but that didn’t work out. So Brucesaid, ‘That’s a great idea, do you thinkthey’ll do it?’ So I called them up one byone and they each said, ‘Well, if they’ll doit, I’ll do it.’ Everybody gave me the sameanswer so I finally told Bruce, ‘Let’s do it.’”

White gave Khan a copy of Lady DaySwings! to listen to and Corea worked upsome great arrangements for the songsthat they chose. “Then Freddie and Joejust came in and played them, so it wascool,” White says. “And we captured areally nice vibe on that record becausewe did everything without overdubsand direct to 2-track.” That same all-star acoustic jazz group (sans Khan)would go back into the studio shortlyafter that initial session to record thetwo-volume Griffith Park Collection. By1983 White was back on the R&B trailwith his solo project, Attitude (featuringbassists Marcus Miller and Bill Laswell,keyboardist Bernard Wright, and singerBernard Fowler), which followed thequintessentially ’80s formula of drysynth and static drum machine soundsthat worked so well for Prince. “I’vebeen into synthesizers and machinesfor a long time,” White says. “And Ithought that with the advent of drummachines, if I didn’t know how theyworked and I wasn’t capable of pro-gramming them that I would lose work.If this machine was going to put me outof work then I was going to learn how tooperate the machine. So during that pe-riod in the ’80s I learned how to pro-gram the LinnDrum and worked withthat on albums like Attitude.”

That same year, Return To Foreverundertook a brief reunion tour withWhite, Corea, Clarke, and Di Meola. Al-hough they worked up new material,they never went into the studio torecord, and by the next year the individ-uals had gone their separate ways again.White would close out the ’80s by fo-cusing on his urban soul trio, The Ja-maica Boys, which he had formed withbassist Marcus Miller and vocalistMichael Stevens (who happened to beChaka Khan’s brother). But in the com-ing decade, White was ready to reinventhimself once again.

Following White In RTF

“T here was much more ofa design to the music,and Chick was very par-

ticular,” says former Return To For-ever drummer Gerry Brown aboutworking with the band and its leader.“Because I was aware of the sub-tleties in the music and the musician-ship needed, the boss appreciatedthose qualities, and it made himhappy.” RTF bassist Stanley Clarkewas the connection that broughtBrown to the group in 1977, replacingdrummer Lenny White in whatturned out to be a band makeover.

Brown burst onto the scene in a bigway as part of Clarke’s phenomenallyfun School Days album the year be-fore. And it was no surprise that thetwo would hook up now, given theirshared history. “I had known Stanleysince we were kids in Philly; he’s prob-ably my oldest friend,” Brown recalls.“We were going to what was calledthe Philadelphia Music Academy, latercalled the University Of The Arts. Atone point, Stanley would start goingto New York, where he eventually metLenny. They started to have a workingrelationship, which led to Chick’sband. When he left, Chick decided ona new format, a big band kind of thing,and Stanley thought of me.”

For Brown, known to many as a top-flight fusion/crossover drummer, play-ing big-band music was nothing new.When Corea moved into this new for-mat it “worked out for me,” he says.“In college I played in the big band,and I had some great experience twosummers working up at the CatskillsRaleigh Hotel. At that point, reading-wise, my chops were up, and the bigband stuff was a piece of cake. What

made the situation easier was Chick, inthe beginning of rehearsals, had thedrum charts written out. But I wantedto see more. So I would go over to himand ask for the piano charts so I couldsee all the other charts. In his eyes,this was cool – ‘Here’s this guy readingstuff, uplifting the music.’”

Documented on the concert al-bum, R.T.F. Live, as well as the studio-produced Musicmagic, the music wasstill clearly a Corea-driven project,but gone was the relatively hardcorefusion vibe, replaced by an expandedband, and a new long-form style of

composition. With help from Clarkeand original member, reed player JoeFarrell, among many others, Brownemerged and thrived to help createyet another Return To Forever sound.

Looking back on those times,Brown cheerfully reminisces, “Afterone rehearsal, I think Chick realizedsomething: that I had always takenthe attitude in an audition or a groupto never assume everything is cool. Itall goes back to the charts, not tomention Stanley and my long friend-ship with him.”By JOHN EPHL AND

GERRY BROWN

LENNY WHITE

26-39 Lenny 3/21/08 11:07 AM Page 34

arrangement of White’s “The ShadowOf Lo” from RTF’s heyday. Renderers OfSpirit (released in 1996 with bassistsStanley Clarke, Victor Bailey, Foley Mc-Creary, and Daryl Jones, along withGeorge Duke and the Brecker Brothers)included the funky Brecker Brothers-ish “Ho-Cake” and Bailey’s “PickPocket,” his answer to the AverageWhite Band’s “Pick Up The Pieces.”White also veered into smooth jazz ter-ritory with “Countdown 2000,” thoughthe rest of that project maintained afunky fusion feel.

He closed out the ’90s in dynamicfashion with 1999’s Edge, which featureda soulful interpretation of Led Zeppelin’s“Kashmir,” featuring former Miles Davisbassist McCreary on lead vocals. Duringthat time he also formed a powerhousefusion outfit with former RTF bandmateStanley Clarke called Vertú, which in-cluded keyboardist Rachel Z, violinistKaren Briggs, and former Poison gui-tarist and metalesque shredder, RichieKotzen. Their self-titled debut on EpicRecords was an ambitious fusion offer-ing that harkened back to the grand vir-

CHAPTER SIX FUSION REDUX

White returned to fusion with a vengeance in the ’90s with astring of potent instrumental offerings. 1995’s Present Tensefeatured guest appearances by guitarists John Scofield andDean Brown, bassists Victor Bailey and Marcus Miller,and his RTF bandmate Chick Corea. Along with hard-hit-

ting numbers like Bailey’s “Sweet Tooth” and Corea’s “Caprice” (originallywritten for the 1983 RTF reunion tour) it included a new hip-hop flavored

White with

Freddie Hubbard

circa 1971

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 35


tuosity and majestic sweep of RomanticWarrior – a portent of things to come.

In May 2004 White and fellow drum-mer Mike Clark (from Herbie Hancock’sHeadhunters) unveiled New Brew, a su-perstar fusion ensemble with two drum-mers, two bass players (Stanley Clarke onupright, Victor Bailey on electric), KennyGarrett on alto saxophone, Eddie Hender-son on trumpet, George Colligan on key-boards, DJ Logic on turntables, andRobben Ford on guitar. Their one show-case gig at B.B. King’s nightclub in Man-hattan was a spontaneous flow ofprovocative, cutting-edge sounds inspiredby the collective improvisation of Miles

Davis’ Bitches Brew session. Unfortunately,nothing more has come of this promisingventure to date. “We did go in the studio,”says White, “but we didn’t finish thatproject. We only did three cuts, so we haveto go back and complete that. But it’s sortof on the backburner for now.”

The following year, White teamed upwith fusion guitar pioneer Larry Coryelland former Weather Report bassist VictorBailey to form a stripped-down, jam-ori-ented power trio that reveled in reconfig-ured renditions of classic rock and jazztunes, including Jimi Hendrix’s “ManicDepression,” Led Zeppelin’s “Black Dog,”Albert King’s “Born Under A Bad Sign,”Wayne Shorter’s “Footprints,” and MilesDavis’ “So What,” along with White origi-nals like “Wolfbane” and his intricaterhythmic puzzle, “Door #3” (both of whichhad previously appeared in a larger en-semble format on Present Tense). They de-buted with 2005’s Electric on CheskyRecords and followed up in 2006 with thehard-hitting Traffic. Then in 2007 Whitecoproduced Evolution Of The Groove, aMiles Davis remix project that sought tobring material from Kind Of Blue, MilesSmiles, Get Up With It, In A Silent Way, andOn The Corner into the 21st century.

And now in 2008 White comes fullcircle, back to Return To Forever in what

D I S C O G R A P H YWhite’s Return To Forever Catalog

“At this point I can do what I want to dowith the drums, but I still practice”

T he fusion movement emerged as sparks sputter-ing from the cauldron stirred by Miles Davis andhis bands in the mid-’60s. Only three of those

sparks were brilliant enough to sustain lives of their own.And of those three, Return To Forever is the one most of-ten, and unfairly, overlooked.

This is true in part because the other two groups lastedlonger. Equally important, both broke a little further fromthe old head-solos-reprise formula, Mahavishnu Orches-tra, through incorporating elements of Indian music intotheir generally familiar Western structures, and WeatherReport for not blowing so much in the post-bop fashion,except of course for Jaco Pastorius, whose instrument wasthe one least-often heard as a solo voice up to that point.

Still, Return To Forever, the third ofthese epochal ensembles, had an identitythat was entirely its own and revolution-ary to boot. Its first incarnation actuallyrepresented a retrenchment of sorts forleader/founder/keyboardist Chick Corea,an adventurous and sometimes abstractimproviser whose conversion to Scientol-ogy hastened his decision to emphasizecommunication rather than experimental-ism in his music. Thus, the first two al-bums that bore this name, Return ToForever (1972) and Light As A Feather(1973), adhered to familiar forms, withAirto Moreira offering an airy, Latin-in-flected feel in his kit and percussion parts.

Later, in ’73, Corea juggled his lineup andemerged with Stanley Clarke on bass andLenny White on drums for Hymn Of TheSeventh Galaxy. And suddenly, the softer-edged aesthetic of the newly main-streamed keyboard player was blown outof the water by an approach whose raw ag-gression was unlike anything heard in musicup to that point. Rather than replicate thesoaring, spiritual direction charted by gui-tarist Jon McLaughlin for Mahavishnu Or-chestra, this disc drew its power from therock side of the jazz/rock equation. Someof this owes to the guitar style of Bill Con-nors, whose performance adhered to theconventions of his instrument, establishedin a more leisurely way by Eric Clapton and his peers.

Truly, though, White deserves credit for most of thistransition. Few albums, from any time in the LP or CDeras, begin as explosively as this one, as the drummererupts with an intense, propulsive energy that was virtu-ally without precedent in the catalog. In just a little morethan three minutes on this title track, he unleashes aflurry of kick accents, syncopations, and rolls, whips rest-lessly from hi-hat to ride and, when Connors builds to ascreeching peak in his solo, plunges into a blizzard of fillsthat seems to be yanking the tempo impatiently whileactually anchoring it artfully – and all the while, whetheron snare or cowbell, the backbeat is there, targetingthese ecstatic flights not so much for the head, or eventhe soul, as for the body.

Throughout Hymn Of The Seventh Galaxy, then, theRTF experience was more orgasmic than cosmic. Seem-ingly spent on that first cut, it revives in the extraordinar-ily powerful backup that White offers toward the end ofthe solos on “After The Cosmic Rain.” It’s back again ontrack three, “Captain Senior Mouse,” where Corea andClarke play with White’s beat, briefly shifting the empha-sis to yank his 2 and 4 to 1 and 3 before introducing thetheme of the tune.

RTF returned a year later with Where Have I Known YouBefore, which featured a new guitarist, Al Di Meola, and ashift in emphasis from Rhodes electric piano to synthe-sizer in the keyboard part. These moves had the unin-tended effects of tying this album a little more to the

period that defined it, in effect dating itssound, while slightly tweaking the rhythm.Clarke and White still cook, but “VulcanWorlds,” the first track, locks into an al-most disco-inflected hi-hat pattern duringthe head, with the bass pushing toward thethumb-pop era. From this point, the musicwinds through keyboard reveries, some notvery spontaneous funk, another distressingdisco lapse on “Earth Juice,” and othertame interludes. In this context, “BeyondThe Seventh Galaxy,” a nod to the feel ofthe preceding album, allows White toshine briefly again, though less persua-sively through repeating and somewhattoning down what had come before. DiMeola’s playing, more advanced and lesselemental than that of Connors, measuresthe price paid at this juncture for a moresophisticated, less-electrifying dynamic.With Where Have I Known You Before, RTFtakes a step down from its peak, whereevery note seemed urgent and necessary,toward the noodling that would becomethe genre’s burdensome legacy.

With Romantic Warrior in 1976, thelineup continues its journey away from itsraw but fiery genesis. Corea’s synthesizerhas advanced significantly to integrate itsemerging technology and broadeningtonality into a more integrated blend ofimprovisation and composition. Often this

confines him to playing written parts or sitting out for awhile, as in the down-tempo but intricately arranged titlecut. When he can, though, White plays within moretightly arranged boundaries – but this only elevatesWhite’s performance to a particularly ferocious level. Thevery title of track one, “Medieval Overture,” evokes theprog-rockist flummery of the era, an impression rein-forced by the 12-minute length and labyrinthine structure.And try to listen to “The Magician” without imagining thedancing dwarves of Spinal Tap. Still, White attacks eachmetrical shift deftly and, when things open up in 4/4,awakens his early RTF persona for a brief but exhilaratingsprint, reminding us not only of RTF at its peak but also ofthe promise of the entire genre at its birth.

By ROBERT L. DOERSCHUK

LENNY WHITE

Hymn Of The Seventh Galaxy, 1971

Where Have I Known YouBefore, 1974

Romantic Warrior, 1976

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 36

promises to be the most celebrated eventof the year for fusion fans. “I would hopethat the Return To Forever reunioncould mark a rekindling of at least an at-titude of creativity – to return to for-ever,” he says. “I know that might soundweird, but that’s exactly what Chickwanted it to do, to return to forever andget to that point again, man. And hope-fully, we’ll go out and do what we do andpeople will get it.”

And this time out, White plans to takean entirely different set of drums than hehad the first time around with RTF. “Orig-inally, I took out a Gretsch kit,” he says.“Gretsch is synonymous with all of theheroes that played the instrument, fromArt Blakey to Max Roach to Philly JoeJones. Now I’ve developed a new set withInnovation Drums, which to me is theRolls Royce of drums,” he says. “I’m goingto use the same configuration that I usedwhen I first went out with RTF, which isfive toms – two mounted toms and threefloor toms, a little bit bigger bass drumthan normal, and snare. As far as cym-bals, I’ll have a ride cymbal, three crashes,and maybe a China cymbal.

“Recently I had been playing one ofTony Williams’ old K Zildjian cymbals,which I got from Wallace Roney. It hadholes where rivets were put in there. Weboth listened to the cymbal and looked atvideos and finally determined that it wasthe one that he used on Miles’ Nefertiti.We went up to Zildjian and there’s a pic-ture there of him playing that actualcymbal. We took the cymbal back thereand had them re-create it. And I hadplayed Tony’s for a while and it cracked,so we put it aside. Then the re-creationcymbal cracked. The one I’m playingnow is a copy of the re-creation, whichsounds great. But I’m also going to intro-duce a new line of cymbals that I’ve beendeveloping with Istanbul called Epoch,which I’ll bring out on tour with RTF.

“There are some people that talked tome about adding this or that to my kitfor this tour,” he continues. “I’ve neverplayed two bass drums and I’ve neverused a double bass drum pedal because Ijust don’t hear that. In order to playthese different things you have to hearthat in your playing, and at this point Ijust don’t. I never say I’ll never use it, butat this point I don’t hear a double bassdrum pedal in my playing.”

Wrapping up the interview in White’s cozy practice roomat home, he offers a basketball analogy in assessing hisrole in all the bands he has ever played in throughout hiscareer. “I think of myself as a point guard, and it’s my jobto get the ball to the scorer,” he says. “See, the drums are

a very egotistical instrument. The drummer can always take over the bandat any point if he wants to do that, but I think the music is key. When the ego

gets in the way and you overplay, there’sa tendency for people who like what youdo to encourage you. Drummers are no-torious for that. They will invariably goup to you after a gig where you overtookthe music and say, ‘Man, you soundedgreat!’ But if you play within the music,people will come up to you after the gigand say, ‘Wow, the band sounded great.’That’s more important to me. It’s reallyimportant for me to be a catalyst to makeall of the guys in the band feel comfort-able in their groove. And when that’shappening, I’m fine.”

Regarding his practice methods thesedays, he says, “At this point I can do whatI want to do with the drums, but I stillpractice because youcan always learnmore, no matterhow advanced youmay become. Everytime I go to see RoyHaynes I learnsomething. Roy isthe living embodi-ment of jazz historybecause he’s played with everybody –Prez, Bird, Diz, Monk, Louis Armstrong,Billie Holiday. He is the most renowned,acclaimed musician that is playing today.Notice I say ‘musician.’ He just happensto play drums. Every drummer shouldgo and check out Roy wherever he isplaying, no matter if they’re hip-hopdrummers, church drummers, rock androll drummers, or whatever. They shouldjust all go and sit in the audience whereRoy is playing and get perspective. Roy isunbelievably killing and still as relevanttoday as he’s ever been. People areamazed that he can still play that way atage 83. But in the East when you go visit aZen master, you sit and he tells you whatto do and you say, ‘Thank you, sensei.’You don’t ask how old he is. You get the

information and that information upliftsyou. And when I see Roy, I’m uplifted. Icome there for information and to hear amaster at work. And when I leave his gig,I’m fulfilled.”

A couple of days after this interview,White left for a week-long tour in Russia,where he premiered his new work fordouble quartet featuring a Russian stringquartet and a jazz quartet featuringbassist Eddie Gomez, Russian saxophon-ist Igor Butman, a Russian pianist, andWhite on drums. He had played me asampling of the music after our interview.It was profoundly beautiful and deeplymeaningful with an underlying tender-ness and inherent sense of lyricism that

he may have pickedup from his com-posing heroes,Ravel and Debussy– definitely a workto be proud of. Andyet, White doesn’trest on his laurels.He’s already for-mulating another

big concept for some time down the road. “I got this idea of doing an album of all

famous arias,” he explains, “but Iwanted to do it with unexpected pairingsof singers and musicians, like maybeJessye Norman and Herbie Hancock, Or-nette Coleman and Plácido Domingo. Ipresented the idea to a friend of minewho had a label and he said, ‘It’s a fan-tastic idea, but the opera police will killyou. You should write your own opera.’And I walked out of that meeting totallydejected because I didn’t know muchabout opera. But I started doing researchon the Internet and started realizing thatmaybe I could write an opera, and I gotpretty into it. For two years I did nothingelse but work on this opera. I’d go on theroad and play gigs and as soon as I came

“The jazz police havemanaged to ostracizefusion out of the history of the music”


CHAPTER SEVEN OPERA & OTHER AMBITIONS

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:12 PM Page 37

that’s the kind of thing I’m going forwith this opera, and I’ll see if I can get itdone some time in the near future.”

Meanwhile, White has laid thegroundwork for an ambitious documen-tary film he plans to make on the fusionmovement. He maintains that criticshave unfairly disparaged the genre as“the dreaded F-word,” dismissed overtime by historians and all but ignored byKen Burns in his acclaimed, ten-partdocumentary, Jazz, which first aired onPBS in 2001. And as an active partici-pant in the first wave of that once-vitalmovement, he intends to set the recordstraight. “I know the jazz police havemanaged to ostracize fusion out of thehistory of the music,” White says. “Con-sequently, there’s a whole musical frater-nity and musical movement that getsoverlooked because there’s not anyiconic person or band championing thatmotion anymore. So this Return To For-ever reunion might be an opportunity tochampion that motion again.”

Over the course of his distinguishedcareer, White has received awards, acco-lades, gold records, and adulation fromother drummers. But one bit of feedbackstill stands out for him among all others.“The greatest compliment that I’ve evergotten for playing drums – and I’ve hadcompliments from Max Roach on down– came from an African guy who cameup to me after a gig in Paris. He said,‘When you play, I hear my people.’ And Iwas touched by that. That’s the source.And for him to get that, to make thatconnection, meant a great deal to me.”

While there may be a touch of Africa inWhite’s drumming, he is also part of a lin-eage of American jazz drumming royalty.As he puts it, “When I play I’m trying toemulate the Holy Six, which is Elvin,Tony, Max, Philly Joe, Art Blakey, and RoyHaynes. But when it comes to playing fu-sion music, I’m one of the guys whostarted doing that, so I’m not trying to em-ulate nothin’. I’m just doing what we do.”

And nobody does it better.

back I’d focus entirely on that. I was pos-sessed with it.”

White has already composed the mu-sic for this ambitious work, which he en-visions as a performance rather than arecording. “It’s a symphonic poem thatflows from beginning to end and is about25 minutes long,” he says, “but I’m stuckfor the libretto. That’s the thing that’s gotme stumped. I had the story but I couldn’tget the words to fit. I got with four or fivedifferent people to work on that but theyultimately found out that it was more ofan ordeal than they thought it would be.So I still have this desire to create in thissymphonic form.”

And if you listen to some of White’s al-bums, that would seem like a naturalprogression for him. “There are pieces ofmine that have symphonic touches,” hesays. “The album I did with Stanley[Clarke] called Vertú has a piece I did onthere called ‘Dance Of The Harlequin.’ Ididn’t write it for any drums at all; it wasfor violin, guitar, piano, and bass. So

LENNY WHITE

26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 4:25 PM Page 38

Ex. 2 - “Medieval Overture” At 1:03

Ex. 1 - “Celebration Suite, Part 1” At 5:46

WHITE-ISMSWhile Lenny White is well versed

in many drumming styles, his funk

influence is unmistakable. Ex. 1 is

an excerpt from “Celebration

Suite, Part 1” off of Return To

Forever’s 1973 recording, No

Mystery. Here White solos and

plays figures with the band over a

driving 6/8, but in the third line he

lays down a groove for two

measures with his distinctive crisp

backbeats. He also unleashes his

favorite lick – the flam accent – in

the first, eighth, and last measure

of this transcription.

You can also see flam accents at

the end of the second example,

which comes from the RTF’s 1976

release Romantic Warrior. Here

White played a classic ’70s fusion

groove at drum ’n’ bass tempos

long before anybody had heard of

that genre. Woven between his

cracking backbeats you’ll also

notice another of his favorite

rudiments – the single paradiddle

– which he plays in the second line

of this transcription between his

snare and bass drum. And the

second to last line of this example

also illustrates another of White’s

signature sounds – fast, clean

singles around the set.

By WALLY SCHNALLE


26-39 Lenny 3/20/08 5:18 PM Page 39

Documents

Lenny White