Meet the Press, November 23, 2008

8/14/2019 Meet the Press, November 23, 2008

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Meet the Press, NBC

November 23, 2008

MR. TOM BROKAW: Our issues this Sunday: After another down week of

terrifying news in the financial markets, President-elect Obama unveils a

massive new plan to stimulate the economy. He is expected to name the

current head of the New York Fed, Tim Geithner, as his new secretary of the

Treasury. What can be done now, and how will the president-elect address

this continuing economic meltdown come January? Insights from two

political heavyweights--a man who served President Reagan as secretary of

the Treasury and George Bush 41 as secretary of state, Jim Baker; and an

adviser to Obama's transition team, the secretary of commerce for President

Bill Clinton, William Daley of Chicago.

Then, he was the Democratic vice presidential nominee in 2000 but

supported Republican John McCain in 2008. After a fight to keep his key

chairmanship in the Senate, does Joe Lieberman have any regrets? We'll ask

him. An exclusive interview with Connecticut's independent senator, Joe

Lieberman.

Plus:

(Videotape)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): ...they show us the plan, we cannot show them

the money.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: Prospects for a Detroit bailout fade on Capitol Hill. The very

latest on the Obama transition and his expected Cabinet picks. Insights and



analysis from our political roundtable: the anchor of CNBC's "Street Signs"

and co-anchor of CNBC's "Squawk on the Street," Erin Burnett; the former

Detroit bureau chief for The Wall Street Journal, Pulitzer Prize winner Paul

Ingrassia; Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson; and NBC News

political director Chuck Todd.

But first, the subject on the minds of everyone these days, the economy.

And now two men who have served the economic teams of former

presidents, former Treasury secretary for President Reagan James Baker,

former commerce secretary for Bill Clinton, now an adviser to the Obama

transition team, Bill Daley of Chicago.

Welcome to both of you.

Mr. Daley, let's begin by hearing what the president-elect had to say in his

radio address to the country yesterday as it played out on his Web site,

about what he has in mind.

(Videotape)

PRES.-ELECT BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): I have already directed my economic

team to come up with an economic recovery plan that will mean 2.5 million

more jobs by January of 2011, a plan big enough to meet the challenges we

face that I intend to sign soon after taking office. We'll be working out the

details in the weeks ahead, but it will be a two-year nationwide effort to

jump-start job creation in America and lay the foundation for a strong and

growing economy.

(End videotape)



MR. BROKAW: We're beginning to hear some of the details this morning. Is

this going to be an FDR public works kind of project?

MR. WILLIAM DALEY: I think what you're going to see, Tom, is a combination

of, yes, there must be infrastructure, we must rebuild our roads, our

bridges, as the president-elect said. We must modernize our schools. Those

are investments. But at the same time, there'll be a host of other things that

the economic team will look at. The president-elect is intent on this being

done over the next number of weeks, ready to be introduced even before

he's sworn in so that the Congress can deal with it over those three--two

and a half weeks and then hopefully pass it and have it ready to be signed.

But it will be large enough to be meaningful and will hopefully set a

predicate for laying a stronger economy, so then he can deal with the longer

term issues that have been neglected for so long, starting in hopefully '10

and '11.

MR. BROKAW: We're going to get to Detroit in a moment, but will he also be

addressing manufacturing in states like Ohio, and the issues of trade, whichwere so contentious during the campaign?

MR. DALEY: I think you'll see, in this economic recovery legislation, across-

the-board look at what, what needs to be done; how large must this action

be to really make an impact in the two years to create those or save those

two and a half million jobs. It has to be a very large package, but it has to

be a combination of things, tax cuts, the president-elect has been intent ontrying to bring tax relief to the vast majority of the middle class in America.

MR. BROKAW: We want to get to taxes in a moment, but first, let's get the

reaction, if we can, of Secretary Baker who's in Texas this morning. Do you



think that the Republican Party is prepared to go along with a massive public

stimulation program that is directed by the government, Mr. Baker?

MR. JAMES BAKER: Well, I think it depends entirely, Tom, on what's in it. We

don't really know that yet. I will say this, I think the president-elect has

pinpointed a very serious problem that we all know we're living through right

now. I happen to believe that we are a very resourceful people and a

resourceful country, and we're going to come out of this all right, but it is, it

is very serious. It's far worse than the downturn that we saw back in the

1987 when we had a stock market collapse when I was Treasury secretary.

That one was much less broad and severe, but even that took us two years

to come out of. So some sort of an infrastructure program could be part of,

of a recovery program, but I don't know that that would be the centerpiece

of it, as far as the Republicans in Congress are concerned. This is also a bad

time, Tom, and, and Bill Daley knows this as well as anybody, to be doing

any talk about backsliding on trade. Everybody knows that free trade creates

economic winners, more winners than losers, so we ought not to be thinking

about raising taxes or backsliding on foreign trade.

MR. BROKAW: And let's talk about taxes for just a moment ,if we can. The

New York Times is reporting today that "in light of the downturn, Mr. Obama

is also said to be reconsidering a campaign pledge: his proposal to repeal

the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. According to several people

familiar with the discussions, he might instead let those tax cuts expire as

scheduled in 2011, effectively delaying any tax increase while he gives hisstimulus plan a chance to work." Is that your understanding of what may

happen?



MR. DALEY: That looks more likely than not, Tom, but the president-elect is

very committed to the fact that there must be greater equity in, in the

responsibility of, of taxes in this country. We must bring tax relief to the

middle class. He has said this now for two years as he's been out there on

the campaign, and he's going to deliver on that. That's an integral part of his

economic recovery package next year is to bring some tax relief to the

American people and the vast majority who are in the middle class, not

those of us who do much better than that. So I, I think he's going, he's, he's

got a great team he's putting together: Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, a

whole host of other people, that he's charged with putting this plan together.

I think he's gone out to get the most competent, qualified, experienced

people to put this together. We are, as Secretary Baker said, in the middle of

an unprecedented economic crisis. We will come out of it, but these are

times that no one's ever seen, and it's a global issue. And of all the people

he's put forward in these major jobs are very experienced in a global setting

of economics also.

MR. BROKAW: And, Secretary Baker, keeping the Bush tax cuts in place, willthat be central to winning any Republican support for a massive public

stimulus program of some kind?

MR. BAKER: Well, it depends on which you mean by keeping them in place.

If that means he's not going to try to repeal, not going to try to increase

taxes during this very critical next two-year period, then, yes, it would be

and probably would be if it means that he's going to abandon the idea of, of keeping them, keeping taxes low thereafter. But let me, let me second what,

what Secretary Daley said about the team that the president-elect is putting

together. I think he's appointed some extraordinarily capable people, and

we're going to see some more, as I understand it. And I think he's to be



commended for that. Bill Daley knows and I know that any new president

has got to surround himself with competent advisers, and that's even more

so today when we're facing the kind of economic crisis we're facing.

May I say one other thing, Tom? I, I think that a lot of what we're seeing out

there today is a lack of confidence, and the president-elect and, as a matter

of fact, the current president have to face this problem over the next 60

days. It's unfortunate that we're in this interregnum of a transition, but I

think that something very useful might even come out of the two of them

sitting down together and addressing not the, not the midterm, not the mid

and long-term problem that we face that was the subject of the president-

elect's speech, but the--but facing--but addressing stability of our financial

system and to see if there isn't something that they could do jointly,

together, over the next 58 to 60 days that would help us make sure that

the--that the financial system is stabilized and, and secure. Because if that

goes under, then this thing is even, believe it or not, going to get worse. And

I think just the mere fact of their sitting down together and seeing if there's

not one thing that they could come together on would do a lot to restore

confidence and, and remove the anxiety and fear that's out there.

MR. BROKAW: Mr. Daley, I know there's some wariness on the part of your

team about getting too close to the outgoing administration, taking

ownership, in effect, of some of the policies that they believe that have

failed. But isn't that a reasonable idea?

MR. DALEY: Well, I think the--what you've seen is probably the, the besttransition by, by President Bush of any administration outgoing. There has

been great coordination, great discussions between President-elect Obama's

team, the president-elect himself, and the secretary of Treasury and the, and

the Fed. So there's a lot of interaction going on.



I, I agree with Secretary Baker that confidence is what's lacking. Senator

Obama, in his address yesterday, put forward a very positive program. He is

appreciative of President Bush's consultations with him, and they will

continue that. No question, this 60-day period is, in, in some ways, is an

opportunity to get a team together, get a plan together to act. We only have

one president during that period, but there is great consultation going on.

And, and, and all the major decisions that this, this administration is moving

on, they are consulting. And as President-elect Obama's team gets put

together, starting tomorrow, they'll be a greater opportunity for--to work

even closer.

MR. BROKAW: You've walked all the way around the simple question,

however.

MR. DALEY: Yeah.

MR. BROKAW: Secretary Baker...

MR. BAKER: Tom, Tom, I agree.

MR. BROKAW: Anyway, secretary...

MR. BAKER: I agree. I agree 100 percent. We can only have one president at

a time, but nothing would do more to create confidence and, and eliminate

the fear and anxiety that's out there, particularly in the finance--in financialmarkets, than to see the incoming president and the outgoing president get

together on a--on some sort of a proposal or, or program over the short

term. I'm not talking about the, the mid, the mid-term or, or long-term

correction of the economy, but something that would do a little more



perhaps to make sure that our, that our banks don't continue to slide down

and, and that would stabilize our financial system, which is critical.

MR. BROKAW: So if the--President-elect Obama came to you and said, "Bill,

what do you think? Should I go meet at the White House if we have sherpas

in advance work something out?" Do you think that that's a...

MR. DALEY: I, I, I don't think there's a, a meeting that's going to give the

confidence that Jim is talking about. I think what's going to take place is

you're going to have the confidence by the actions of this administration in

consultation with the president-elect, in--and then President-elect Obama, as

he has done, telling his team, "Quickly, in 60 days, put together a plan thatwe can pass, even before I become president." That's the sort of aggressive

leadership that I think President Obama's going to give. And I think the

markets, as shown by Friday's action, maybe, indicate that there is some

belief that, as his team gets appointed and they then develop a plan, that

we're going to begin to see some confidence come back into the--and there,

this is a difficult period, no doubt about it, in this transition period, but the

administration is also, as I understand it from press reports, moving veryquickly to possibly even change the plans that they've put forward at this

point.

MR. BAKER: The appointment...

MR. BROKAW: Here, here is part of the problem as I see it.

MR. BAKER: The appointment of the team...

MR. BROKAW: Go ahead.

MR. BAKER: Tom, the appointment of the team did, the appointment of the

team did, did stabilize things for a day or so, and Bill's quite right about that.



And then when it's formally announced Monday, it may do so again. But I'm

not sure that it's going to be enough to, to, to stop the problem. And, and,

boy, nothing would do more. And, and the president-elect would not have to

take ownership. This would be a joint program, and it would only--it would

be limited to trying to do further stabilization of the financial system only.

MR. BROKAW: Well, let, let me take this to the next phase, if I can. I want to

share with you what Secretary Paulson had to say recently, November 13th,

about the stabilization of the American banking system. Here's what he had

to say.

(Videotape)

SEC'Y HENRY PAULSON: I believe the banking system has been stabilized.

No one is asking themselves anymore is there some major institution that

might fail and that we would not be able to do anything about it. So I think

that is a positive.

Unidentified Man: There could be a failure of another major institution?

SEC'Y PAULSON: I, I got to tell you, I think our, our major institutions have

been stabilized. I believe that very strongly.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: And shortly after that statement, as we all know, Citibank,

one of the largest financial institutions in the world, had its stock drop by 64

percent in a matter of days, hours. It was in free fall. It's now looking for

additional government assistance. Tom Friedman in The New York Times



today is suggesting that Tim Geithner be moved up as the secretary of

Treasury, that he be put in place before the inauguration on January 20th. Is

that the kind of thing that the Obama team is going to explore?

MR. DALEY: Well, I, I, I think we're going to stick to the schedule, as has

been laid out, and that is the secretary of the Treasury will be nominated. He

has to go through a confirmation process. No one takes for granted the

Senate's action in that. But, but I think what Secretary Paulson said was

there are, there are tools they have today to prevent that sort of collapse,

and hopefully they will take them if they're faced with that. But these are

unprecedented times, no question about it. I don't think anyone's ever seen

them. It took us a long time to get to this. It's going to take us a long time

to get out of it. And we've just got to be confident that we have the tools

which Secretary Paulson said we do as a government, and then how to build

on those in this new administration.

MR. BROKAW: Detroit and what to do about it has been a central part of the

discussion in the past week, not just in Washington, but across the country.Will President-elect Obama address Detroit tomorrow on what he thinks

ought to be done about that?

MR. DALEY: I, I think at his press conference, I'm sure they'll--one of your

colleagues will ask the questions. He has been very up-front in saying, and

strong in saying that the auto industry is an important part of our economy.

This is an unprecedented time of difficulty. Much of the difficulty in our autoindustry brought on by the industry itself, but much also brought on by this

confluence of economic problems that have hit the country at once. There's

no question there is no desire for a bailout. That's not going to work. They

have been charged by the Congress, after failure last week, to come back to



the Congress with a plan that can begin to convince people that they have

some opportunity, out of a plan, to survive and to grow and bring new cars

and help address the economic problems. But to let them go down just as

though it won't affect this country and this economy is just unrealistic. It's

the backbone of our manufacturing, it affects the small towns throughout

America, and we've got to do all that we can. But they have to do--the

responsibility is on the auto companies and the union to come back to

Congress and give them a plan. That's what Congress has asked for.

President-elect is strongly encouraging them to do that, and he will support

some sort of short-term, if needed, to get to the point where they can

honestly come in with a plan that will show long-term growth and

opportunity for the auto industry in America.

MR. BROKAW: Secretary Baker, is there anything short of bankruptcy that

the Republicans would sign off on to help Detroit?

MR. BAKER: Well, I can't speak for the Republicans generally, Tom, but what

I think the president-elect could do in, in this case is take a page from, fromPresident Ronald Reagan's book back in 1987 when every major automobile

company chief executive came in pounding on my desk as secretary of the

Treasury and then over at the Oval Office demanding protection against

Japanese and Korean imports. And it wasn't easy for President Reagan to do

this, but he said, "Wait a minute, I'm not going to do that. We believe in free

trade. What you're going to have to do is get competitive, you're going to

have to downsize and streamline," and they did that. When, when, when abailout-type approach was denied them and when they were not given

protection, they did downsize, they streamlined, they became one of the

most effective and efficient automobile industries in the, in the world. And



that's the kind of approach, I think, that most Republicans would like to see

to the problems of Detroit.

MR. BROKAW: But then they lost their way, and a lot of people blame this

administration and others for always pushing back when people wanted to

raise the CAFE standards on mileage and not saying anything about Detroit

and its great binge when it came to SUVs and big gas-guzzling vehicles of all

kind. So...

MR. BAKER: Well, that's part of--of course, that's a big part of the problem.

But another large part of the problem is that they're simply not competitive.

Given the pension benefit obligations that they've incurred over the years

under both Republican and Democratic administrations, and given the, the

wage rates and salaries that they pay, I mean, other automobile companies

come into this country, they locate in the South or the West and they build

cars and they build them very effectively and very competitively. I think it

costs maybe--I think Detroit has to find $2,000 to compete with some of the

cars of--similar type car that Toyota builds in some of its plants in the South.

So that, that problem is endemic, and it's going to have to be addressed.

MR. BROKAW: Secretary Baker, I can't let you go without getting your

reaction, as a former secretary of state, to the prospect that Hillary Clinton

is going to be the new secretary of state in the--in an Obama administration.

What do you think of the choice of Hillary Clinton?

MR. BAKER: Well, well, as I said earlier, I think all of the choices that havebeen surfaced out there so far are, are quite good. I, I see them as--maybe

I'm wrong in this, I hope I'm not, but I see them as being sort of center-

right of the Democratic Party. With respect to Senator Clinton, she's got the

qualifications. She's extraordinarily intelligent. she is--her appointment,



should it come, will be well-received by a lot of people around the world. It

will certainly do a lot, I would think, speaking now as a politician, perhaps,

to solidify the Democratic Party. But the key is going to be whether or not

she and her president are seamless in their approach to foreign policy

issues. As I think Tom Friedman wrote in a column last week, a, a foreign

leader can see daylight between a president and his secretary of state from

a hun--from a thousand miles away. So she will be successful depending

upon how seamless she is with her president and how they operate together

and how he protects her back and vice-versa, how he formulates foreign

policy, she picks up on that formulation, and she implements it. That's going

to be the key, but I think she is clearly well qualified, provided that seamless

approach is, is undertaken.

MR. BROKAW: And Mr. Daley, finally, are they going to work out the Bill

Clinton issues to get her appointed?

MR. DALEY: I, I, I'm not confirming anything, but I would hope that things

work out because I, I agree with Secretary Baker that she would be atremendous addition to this administration. Tremendous.

MR. BROKAW: All right. Bill Daley, representative of the Obama

administration incoming; and, of course, Jim Baker, in Texas, secretary of

the Treasury under Ronald Reagan, secretary of state under Bush 41, White

House chief of staff, now down in Texas playing the part of an elder

statesman of the Republican Party. Coming up next, does Joe Liebermanhave any regrets over his support for John McCain during the presidential

election? I'll be asking him that in our exclusive interview. Also, our political

roundtable. All coming up next only here on MEET THE PRESS.



(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW: Joe Lieberman, plus our political roundtable after this brief

station break.

(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW: Senator Joe Lieberman, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

You were last here in early August at a time when you were supporting John

McCain. Before we get to that and the consequences of it all, I want to ask

you about President-elect Obama's economic stimulus program that we'll

hear more about tomorrow, but we're already getting the broad outlines of a

two and a half million job program of some kind. Apparently based on what

Mr. Daley was saying, it will include not just public works, but some

incentives for the private sector as well.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I-CT): Right. Well, I was very encouraged by what

President-elect Obama had to say yesterday. As everyone knows, this is anunprecedented economic situation. I mean, just think about the effects.

We've lost about $8 trillion of value in the stock market. There are millions of

Americans whose home mortgages are either in foreclosure or about to go

into foreclosure. Unemployment is rising. We need to work together to, to

get the economy going again. I was impressed by what Secretary Baker

said, although, frankly, I'd address it a little bit differently. I, I'm concerned

that we're between presidents now and in the meantime, the economy iscontinuing to cycle down and, to, to a lot of people, out of control. I'd like to

see President Bush work with President-elect Obama and the Democrats and

Republicans in Congress to see if we can agree on a short-term stimulus that

would be in effect some time right after the first of the year, perhaps a, a tax



rebate or, or a, a program of grants to state and local governments, money

that would move right out into the economy. Because, when you think about

it, Tom, we're two months from Inauguration Day. It's hard to imagine

Congress moving a short-term stimulus program of President-elect Obama in

less than a month. We're going to be into the second quarter of next year

before we get the stimulus, and that's too long. We need some action right

now.

MR. BROKAW: Everybody's gone home. Should they be called back?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah. Well, we are coming back in December to deal with

the auto industry crisis, but what I'm saying is I, I think President Bush

ought to take the lead here and reach out to President-elect Obama and

Democrats in Congress and see if we can agree on a short-term stimulus for

the economy. We need it now. Now, Secretary Baker talked about financial

institutions. I, I think Secretary Paulson and the administration already have

enough authority to deal with financial institutions. And, and Hank Paulson

might have been right in what he said that our financial institutions arestable, but that's not enough. They're not lending money, and until they do,

this economy is going to go nowhere. So I, I, I think Secretary Paulson

ought to call in Mr. Geithner, if he's the choice tomorrow, and begin to work

with him on trying urgently to find a better way than they've found so far

with the $700 billion in authority that we, in Congress, gave Hank Paulson to

get banks to start lending money again.

MR. BROKAW: Let's talk politics. You were here in early August. You were

appearing with John Kerry.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yes.





MR. BROKAW: You said you weren't going to attack him, but you were

saying, in effect there, he's just not qualified to be president of the United

States.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I was saying he was less qualified than John McCain.

I think I, I praised him right, right there. Look, in that speech, as I said to

the Republican delegates, I wasn't really speaking to them, I was speaking

as an independent Democrat to independents and Democrats across America

about why...

MR. BROKAW: Oh, but you're, but you are, come on, Senator, with all due

respect, you were appearing at the Republican National Convention. You

were speaking to them as well.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, of course I was, but my, my main audience, because

they had already decided they were going to support McCain. I was trying to

explain why I as an Independent Democrat--remember, I made the choice

after having been elected as an Independent, why I thought John McCainwas the better choice. And I think I spoke respectfully of Barack Obama.

But, you know, that's over. Barack Obama won fair and square and

impressively; and now, as I said the day after the election, we've got to all

unite behind him in these perilous economic times, and that's what I intend

to do.

MR. BROKAW: Were you at all uncomfortable when Sarah Palin later saidthat he pals around with terrorists, or when Rudy Giuliani, the mayor of New

York--the former mayor of New York, mocked his experience as a community

organizer at the Republican National Convention? Did that make you

uncomfortable?



SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I didn't agree with either of those statements, and...

MR. BROKAW: But you didn't express it publicly then.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, in fact, I did. People asked me about it--during that

period of time, people in the media asked me about it during that period of

time. But again, that's over and Barack Obama has won. Incidentally, Barack

Obama has set exactly the right tone in victory since election night.

Magnificent speech by him. A, a great speech by John McCain. Election night

was a great American night, classically American, coming together. Senator

McCain, Senator Obama, at Obama's invitation, have met; they've agreed to

work together on a host of issues. We can't afford the luxury of spending

time going back to the campaign. There's a lot of people in this country who

are in danger of losing their homes and their jobs, and we've got to come

together across party lines to help them quickly.

MR. BROKAW: But you're being judged not just by your fellow senators, butby Democrats across this country as well, because actions do have

consequences. Here's what you had to say at the Republican National

Convention about the choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate, right after

you disqualified, in effect, Barack Obama because he wasn't yet ready.

Here's what you had to say about Sarah Palin.

(Videotape, September 2, 2008)

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Now, I'm honored to say just a word about the great lady

that John McCain has selected as his running mate. The truth is, she is a

leader we can count on to help John shake up Washington. That's why I



sincerely believe that the real ticket for change this year is the McCain-Palin

ticket.

(End videotape)

MR. BROKAW: Did you honestly believe that she was more qualified than

you--you were on the short list for John McCain at one point--or than your

friend Joe Biden to be the vice president of the United States.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: It's so sweet of you to run that clip and ask me that

question this morning, Tom. Look, I, I got into this in December of 2007 to

support my friend John McCain, who I've worked with on a host of different

issues--climate change, lobbying and ethics reform, national security--

because I thought he was better prepared than any of the candidates at that

time--because everybody was in the race--to be the president we needed.

I'm going to leave the political commentary and analysis looking backward to

others. I'm focused on going ahead, now empowered to be chairman of

homeland security by my colleagues in the, in the caucus and empowered towork in the caucus with the president-elect and his team to try to get our

economy going again and protect our safety.

MR. BROKAW: You seem to have had a singular view about what happened

in the caucus. You were quoted as saying afterwards it was the best time

you'd had with the Democratic caucus since 2000.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: That, that was a misquote. What I said was I, I felt closer

to the caucus than any time since 2006. I felt real close in 2000. But 2006

was a tough time for me and my friends in the Democratic Party. I lost the

Democratic nomination over the--my position on the war in Iraq in



Connecticut. I went on to run as an Independent. God bless the people of

Connecticut, they re-elected me. And so I came back as an Independent-

Democrat. And my status over those two years was a different one, but I

felt--I tell you, the caucus was a, a very healthy exchange of real honest

feelings, and I--that's why I said I emerged from it feeling closer to my

friends in the Senate Democratic caucus than I have since 2006.

MR. BROKAW: There seem to have been several versions of what happened

in there. Let me just read to you from the Politico: "Lieberman said that he

doesn't regard his loss of a spot on the Environment and Public Works

Committee"--I think you served on that for 20 years--"as any kind of

punishment. ... `I don't view it as a sanction,' ... Lieberman told Politico. ...

Instead [he] suggested he relinquished his seat on the committee

voluntarily." But a spokesman for Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader,

"disagreed with Lieberman's characterization. ... One senior Democratic aide

... also disputed [the] contention. ... `It's a sanction,' the aide said.

`Someone who serves on a committee for 20 years just doesn't drop it in

the spirit of cooperation. It was taken away from him.'"

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, look, the whole spirit of the caucus was

reconciliation, and the fact is that Senator Reid asked me if I would leave the

environment committee if he needed space on the committee for some of

the new freshman senators coming in. I said yes, I would. People may have

voted for it thinking somewhat differently. It's OK. What, what I feel good

about is that I have the opportunity and privilege to be chairman of theSenate Homeland Security Committee, in which I've done a lot of work that I

want to continue to protect the security of the American people at home,

and to continue to chair the subcommittee of the Armed Services Committee

that oversees all Army and Air Force programs at a critical time. And, look,



this began with President-elect Obama, when he said both publicly that he

holds no grudges, in my case, and I think generally. And, and then Senator

Reid saying that he had heard from President-elect Obama, who asked him

to do everything he could to keep me in the Democratic caucus, because the

president-elect is looking forward. He knows the enormous challenges he

faces. And I think he wants to make sure, first, that he has a united

Democratic Party before him, and then, as he indicated in and after his

meeting with Senator McCain, that he's got the opportunity to work across

party lines to fix the enormous problems that we all face together.

The public is sick of partisanship. They really want us to put our country

first. And that, I think, is what Barack Obama has been making clear he will

do since the night he was elected.

MR. BROKAW: You've always, as a public servant, held other people

accountable. You were the only one to speak out on the floor, for example,

against Bill Clinton during the time of the impeachment. Holding yourself

accountable, looking back over the last six weeks, two months or so, what

are the statements that you most regret?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I don't want to go into the details. Let me just say

this, I don't regret having supported John McCain because I sincerely

believed in his experience and his extraordinary record of working across

party lines to get things done. But I do regret, as I said to the caucus and,

and afterward publicly, there were some things I said in the heat of a

campaign that I wish I had said more clearly. There are other things, frankly,I wish I hadn't said at all. That happens to all of us in the heat of a

campaign. But, nonetheless, I regret it and I want to move forward. And I

was very grateful that my caucus, in the resolution they passed, did not

disapprove of my support of Senator McCain, because they respected that I



did is as an Independent Democrat for somebody I had worked with very

closely. They expressed their disapproval of some of the things I said. I

accept that. That was the spirit of reconciliation. And now we move on

together to get the nation's business done.

MR. BROKAW: Have...

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Urgently.

MR. BROKAW: Have you picked up the phone and talked to Barack Obama

about just that?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: I, I called Senator Obama, President-elect Obama, after

the campaign. He's busy. I heard back from Joe Biden and Rahm Emanuel.

I'm sure, in time, Senator Obama and I, who, who, who have developed a

good friendship and working relationship over the years he's been in the

Senate, will, will talk. In some sense he talked to me through Harry Reid and

his spokespeople, and I appreciate very much the spirit of reconciliation thathe evoked. We don't have the luxury of looking backward to the campaign.

He's the winner. He's the president-elect. We've all got to work together with

him to make him successful, and that's what I'm committed to doing.

MR. BROKAW: I hear the word regret but not the word apology.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I do, I regret it. I mean, I don't, I, I, you know, I'm

going forward. You can take from the word regret what you, what you, will. Iwish I had not said some of the things I've said. But, again, we all do it.

There was a lot of stuff said in this campaign about both candidates that I

think a lot of people regret. I'm happy to step forward and say that I regret

some of the things I've said. But somebody once said to me, God put our



eyes in front of our head so we would always be naturally looking forward.

And that's what, at this time of peril for our country, we've all got to be

doing.

MR. BROKAW: Do you think that your friend Senator John McCain will

become an advocate, an enthusiastic advocate for trying to heal the partisan

divides that have so--been so cancerous in this town and work closely with

Barack Obama?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah. I'm convinced John McCain will play a leadership

role in bringing people together across party lines in support of Senator

Obama, obviously on the areas in which he agrees with him. And, and I'm

not just guessing, because that's been McCain's whole record. He's been one

of the most productive legislatures we've had because he has worked across

party lines. He will do it again. There will be occasions, I presume, where he

would disagree with the president-elect, President Obama; he will say so

respectfully. But you couldn't ask for a Republican candidate for president

who didn't win who is more prepared than John McCain to do everything hecan, as he said during the campaign, to put our country first by supporting

our country's president. He's not the Democrat's president. Barack Obama is

going to be America's president, and we all need to help him be a great

president.

MR. BROKAW: Senator Lieberman, thanks very much for being with us.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Tom.

MR. BROKAW: Hope you'll come back again.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: I look forward to it.



MR. BROKAW: OK. The very latest on the prospects for a bailout of Detroit.

Also President-elect Obama's expected Cabinet picks and his big economic

stimulus program. Our political roundtable will be weighing in. Erin Burnett,

Paul Ingrassia, Eugene Robinson and Chuck Todd next only here on MEET

THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW: We're back. We've got lots to talk about this morning with

Erin Burnett of CNBC; Paul Ingrassia, the former Detroit bureau chief for The

Wall Street Journal; Gene Robinson of The Washington Post; and Chuck

Todd, political director of NBC News. Welcome to all of you.

Erin, you've been around the world and back in the last 10 days or so. You

were in Moscow, you've been talking to Hank Paulson and other people. Of

course you've been keeping track of the markets nanosecond by nanosecond

because that's what's required today. What do you think the response will

be, and I always hate that amorphous term, of the markets tomorrow to thisannouncement that Barack Obama plans a two and a half million job

economic stimulus program of some kind?

MS. ERIN BURNETT: It's so hard to tell what the market will do, you're right,

nanosecond by nanosecond, but if you take Friday as an indication to

Timothy Geithner as head of the Treasury, obviously that did cause a last

minute surge, and it broke a couple of bad days for the market. So you couldsay that might be an indication the market would take it positively. Two and

a half million jobs, though, really isn't that many. That would still leave you

with a net loss next year, and many people might say OK, that's good, but

not overly ambitious, particularly those on Wall Street who are lukewarm on



the idea of a massive infrastructure project. So maybe it indicates he's being

a little cautious on the infrastructure side, and that would be received

warmly.

MR. BROKAW: Isn't the more critical need to do something about Citibank

and the other financial institutions that are in free fall?

MS. BURNETT: Citibank is an incredible story. And some reports that I've

heard is that the vast majority of trading last week was people betting the

stock would go down. You look at the cash position of Citigroup, it may be

too big to manage, it may be a company with a lot of problems, all of that is

true, but that company has $800 billion in deposits. There has been no fear,

no fleeing, and to see that institution go down so quickly is truly shocking

and, as you said, would be shocking to the Treasury secretary as well.

MR. BROKAW: Chuck Todd, we heard former Secretary of the Treasury Jim

Baker, former secretary of state, a wise man in the Republican Party,

announce today that he thinks that Barack Obama and President Bushshould get together before the inauguration with some kind of a symbolic act

to try to shore up confidence in this country.

MR. CHUCK TODD: Well, it's interesting, and, and what I'll be curious to see

is what Republicans will jump on that bandwagon and say let's do

something. And maybe the symbolic act is what you asked him about in

particular, asked Bill Daley about it, about getting Timothy Geithner in placenow. You know, don't wait until January 20th. What's been interesting about

watching Barack Obama during this transition is he wanted to hold off on, on

doing this economic team.



There was a lot of, of sort of, of political advice he was getting: "Hold off,

don't take, don't take control of this economy just yet. Don't..." And yet, a

lot of Wall Street folks got to him and said, "No, get on this now. Hurry up

and inspire confidence." What Baker outlined, I could absolutely see in the

next couple weeks influencing Obama and saying, "You know what? Maybe I

will sign on to something."

MR. BROKAW: Good idea, Gene Robinson?

MR. EUGENE ROBINSON: Well, I, I think it's a good idea. I--but I think it was

extraordinary to hear Jim Baker, the, the Republican eminence grise,

essentially call on George Bush to, to share power, Republican president to,

to effectively step down early and, and hand over the reins to the president-

elect as a way of, of reassuring the, the market and the economy.

MR. BROKAW: I'm not sure he was going quite that far, but.

MR. ROBINSON: Well, well, but almost. And, you know, the--I mean, he isstill president.

MR. BROKAW: Right.

MR. ROBINSON: And, and as, as Bill Daley was saying, George, George

Bush--there are things he can do now, yet he does not have the credibility in

the market, or I think in the, in the, in the country to, to get--to bring aboutthat sort of confidence right now.

MR. TODD: He was speaking like a Treasury secretary, though. He was just

talking in full confidence. It seemed like he took off his Republican hat there.



MS. BURNETT: But, Tom, there's also this whether Tim Geithner should take

over. There are real differences between Henry Paulson and Tim Geithner.

MR. BROKAW: Right.

MS. BURNETT: And one of the biggest questions out there, when you talk

about Citigroup, what are we going to use the rest of this TARP money for?

Hank Paulson's trying to wait and leave that for the next administration. So

if you did have Tim Geithner come in, he could say, "This is how I want to

spend it. This is what I want to use it for." And that would give some clarity

that might be needed.

MR. BROKAW: In the meantime, the 100,000-pound gorilla in Washington

and across the country is your area of expertise, Paul Ingrassia. We're going

to show on the screen a letter that Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader,

and Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, have sent to Detroit, saying

really, "You've got to get your house in order. We'll help if you can guaranteeus that you'll make the kinds of changes" that required everything from

executive pay to reorganization. What do you think the chances are that

something will be done before January 20th on behalf of Detroit with pretty

strict conditions that are short of formal bankruptcy?

MR. PAUL INGRASSIA: Well, you know, we hear a lot about hybrid cars, Tom,

and I think what we probably need in a case like this is something thatmight be called hybrid bankruptcy. Or if that word is toxic, let's call it hybrid

restructuring. You need someone that has the authority to really cut through

some of the ropes that are tied around this industry that really prevent it

from being competitive and effective. The dealer franchise laws basically



make it impossible for General Motors to really shrink its dealership network

from about 7,000 dealers to about 1500, which it really needs to go down to.

The union contract, just the master contract with the UAW and the car

companies, is about that thick. Meanwhile, out in California, General Motors

and Toyota have a joint venture called NUMMI, New United Motor

Manufacturing Inc., that has a modern contract about that thick. Much less

work rules, much less bureaucracy on both sides. And those kind of things

have to be cut through with someone who has the, has the power to

invalidate the union contracts and the dealer franchise laws so real

restructuring can be done.

MR. BROKAW: But in, in your own column you wrote about bankruptcy would

take shareholder value to nothing, probably. It's down...

MR. INGRASSIA: Shareholder value's already nothing.

MR. BROKAW: ...74 percent.

MR. INGRASSIA: Look at the stock prices.

MR. BROKAW: But what does it do at the other end of the pipeline to those

communities across America that really do depend on their car dealerships

to be a part of the heartbeat of their local economy?

MR. INGRASSIA: Well, sure. I mean, look, there's no painless way out of this, I don't think. But there is--there are parts of America where the car

companies are really thriving. I mean, Honda just opened a brand-new

assembly plant in Indiana last month, making Honda Civics that are selling--

you know, nothing's selling well in this economy, but they're selling OK. So



the truth of the matter is there's no painless way out of it. What you really

have to do is find a way to minimize the pain and to give these companies a

chance to really reboot themselves. And I think it's going to take some very

harsh action with people who don't have to negotiate solutions but can

impose solutions.

MR. BROKAW: A week ago there was some talk that GM may disappear. Do

you think that's unlikely?

MR. INGRASSIA: Well, I hope they don't disappear. I think it'd be a disaster

for the country, certainly. But I think that they have to be radically

restructured, probably some new leadership and certainly downsized. They

have eight brands with about 20, 22 percent of the market. If you just do

the math, they don't have enough money to put behind marketing or

product development for eight brands. They really need to get down to

Cadillac, Chevy and maybe one other, maybe Saturn. But, again, to do that,

it's going to take someone who can really invalidate some contracts with

dealers.

MR. BROKAW: And, Gene Robinson, you have been writing about this. We're

going to share with our viewers now from your column. "Detroit blames its

situation on the financial and economic crisis. It's true that demand for cars

has fallen off a cliff, largely because many would-be buyers are unable to get

financing. It's also true that the auto industry claims to have seen the light

about making energy-efficient cars. But it's also true that these newlyenlightened executives spent years defending their industry's obsession with

SUVs--and pooh-poohing the idea that times, and tastes, would ever

change." Do those three executives to appeared here in Congress last week

have to just hang it up and walk away?



MR. ROBINSON: I think they do. I, I think for, for the country to have

confidence in, in any sort of, you know, call it a bailout or restructuring or

whatever, but the US government's going to have to put money into it, and,

and for people to have confidence in that, I don't think they have confidence

in, confidence in current management. I think a lot of people on Capitol Hill

don't either. I had a long talk with a veteran Democratic senator on

Thursday, the kind of guy who, who recognizes that--how disruptive a failure

of GM would be, a failure of any of the automakers and, and who supports

unions and, and wants to see the retirees get their money and everything.

But he was enormously frustrated, just enormously frustrated and recalled

conversations he had had with, with several of these executives in the past

about "When are you guys going to get your act together?" "Oh, we've

learned. We're better. We're going to, we're going to reform and make better

cars." And then nothing happened.

MR. BROKAW: Chuck Todd, one of the first tests of Obama's leadership, it

seems to me, is he's got to go get in the face of the labor unions, the UAWin this case, and say, "Look guys, I know you supported me. I said I would

be a champion of labor."

MR. TODD: Right.

MR. BROKAW: "But it's time for you to take a step back and get realistic

here."

MR. TODD: Well, you know, it struck me that those--the head of the UAW

should've been on Capitol Hill as well with--as part of this. I mean, it is going

to be a, a dual solution. Now, this is why I don't think, politically, you're



going to see this Democratic-controlled Congress or Barack Obama let the

car companies go under, let any one of them go under because there is

enormous pressure being put on them by labor beyond what we've seen.

And that's why you do wonder if, if Congress should put them up and say,

you know, "You've got to publicly be a part of this solution," and put them up

with the executives. And that's something they haven't done. We'll see. I, I,

I think that, that there is a majority out there to save, to save the auto.

MR. BROKAW: Maybe that plan is what President Bush and President-elect

Obama, under the Baker proposal, should be working on between now and

January 20th.

MR. INGRASSIA: Well, that would be exhibit A in my book. I mean, I really

think, you know, I agree absolutely with what Chuck said about the union

pressure. I think, think the union's got to come to the party on this. I mean,

even today, Tom, some of the Big Three car factories have to staff 20

percent above the staffing level that it would take to normally operate the

plant because of absenteeism. I mean, you know, a simpler operating

contract, the, the contract that they have out in California at the GM/Toyota joint venture, you just miss a certain number of days and you're out. There's

no negotiating with bureaucracies about, well, is this an excused absence or

not an excused absence? It's a simpler operating agreement. And the

template already exists. They should take the corporate jets and go to

California and find it.

MS. BURNETT: We need more clarity, though, on where these two and a half million jobs are going to come from because, as I say, I think that's a lot less

than a lot of people on Wall Street were expecting to hear out of Obama,

maybe a larger number. But if you're going to talk about restructuring here,

you're going to lose jobs no matter what. And finding some sort of an



immediate transition seems to be very important. And if you're talking about

infrastructure, there's only about $18 billion of projects ready to go that you

could really put people to work on. So there is this sort of no man's land that

we're going to go into where you could have a lot of people looking for work

in addition to where we are right now and not really having anywhere to go

right, right yet.

MR. BROKAW: Yeah, I've told--I've been told by governors and mayors alike

that it's about an 18-month ramp-up to any kind of realistic public works

program. We're going to talk about the Cabinet that is now beginning to

take shape. The one that has been getting the most attention besides Tim

Geithner as the choice of the secretary of the Treasury, as you might expect,

Madam Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton. The Clintonistas are back--Rahm

Emanuel as the White House chief of staff, Eric Holder, the attorney general.

What are the issues for Hillary Clinton beyond Bill? Or are those the big

issues?

MR. TODD: Oh, I think it was the--that Bill was the big issue here. In fact,

there were some very loyal Hillary loyalists very upset this week, thinkingthat Bill and his boys were, were, were messing the whole deal up by leaking

the fact of how cooperative he was being. It was creating this--the drama

that the Obama folks were trying to avoid. And it was my understanding that

some, some Hillary loyalists made it clear to Chicago, this isn't us. This isn't

the way we're going to be. We're not going to be this type of State

Department. I think what's critical going forward is what is the relationship

going to be with Jim Jones...

MR. BROKAW: Yes.

MR. TODD: ...who's the likely national security adviser and Hillary Clinton?



MR. BROKAW: Right.

MR. TODD: What you're seeing Obama develop here, yes, he's going to have

some very strong, it's not a team of rivals, I call it a team of egos. And I

mean that in a positive way. There's a lot of big personalities he's putting in

his Cabinet, but he's also putting big personalities in charge of major things.

NSA, he's doing this with Larry Summers, with the Council of Economics,

with that position, and he's going to create one on green, on energy issues

that's going to almost be an uber-Cabinet post over energy, interior and EPA.

MR. BROKAW: We should let our audience know that Jim Jones, well-known

in the Washington circles...

MR. TODD: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...former Marine commandant, has several languages, he was

NATO commander, he is highly regarded across the board here. There yousee him on the screen. He'll be a very, very strong voice in, in any White

House. Eric Holder...

MR. ROBINSON: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: ...Obama's friend, number two in the Clinton administration in

the Justice Department under Janet Reno.

MR. ROBINSON: Mm-hmm.

MR. BROKAW: But on the way out...



MR. ROBINSON: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...he was involved in the Mark Rich pardon by waving it

through...

MR. ROBINSON: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...saying, "Take a look at it."

MR. ROBINSON: Exactly, looking, looking the other way and he has, in, in

public statements since said, "Well, maybe I should've paid a bit more

attention to, to, to that and taken, taken another look at it." The early signs

are that, that Capitol Hill seems to be and Washington seems to be willing to

say, "OK, that's in the past. Eric Holder is highly regarded by people on both

sides of the aisle." As attorney general, he would be an, an, an interesting

choice in--for me, in part, because he has very strong views on, on the

issues or torture and, and detention at Guantanamo and that whole nexus of issues. It'd be interesting to see how he perceives--President-elect Obama

has said he will make this a priority, closing Guantanamo and restoring

America's honor and place in the world, as he, as he has, has essentially put

it. So do we have some sort of investigatory commission? How does, how

does he, how does he go about putting things right from the point of view of

the new administration?

MR. BROKAW: And, Chuck Todd, you've been looking at the election results.

One of the things that jumps out at you...

MR. TODD: Mm-hmm.



MR. BROKAW: ...is the Hispanic vote, obviously, was very powerful for the

Democrats. Texas could go Democrat in four years or possibly eight years.

Bill Richardson, who is the most high-profile Hispanic...

MR. TODD: Right.

MR. BROKAW: ...politician in the country now rumored for secretary of the

Commerce.

MR. TODD: Boy, this came together sort of last minute, too. They were

looking for a place for a well-known Hispanic. Some Hispanic supporters of,

of Senator--of President-elect Obama were not happy that none of the big

posts. You know, they've had HUD, they've had Energy, they've had, you

know, that isn't what they were interested in. They wanted a seat at the, at

the big boys' table and the big girls' table and so Commerce is an interesting

thing. They're going to ramp up Commerce, they're going to roll it out, and

this might actually be a good place for Bill Richardson. Commerce isAmerica's cheerleader, sometimes, on business.

MS. BURNETT: But Commerce, Commerce and State need to work together,

especially when you talk about protectionism and trade and obviously the

relationship between Richardson and Clinton, is that going to magnets, egos

coming together or hitting on the other side of the magnet?

MR. TODD: It's potentially...(unintelligible). We'll see.



MR. BROKAW: Yeah, but we also have Daschle, Napolitano, and maybe a

holdover in Bob Gates, who is the secretary of defense, so we've got a lot to

talk about in weeks to come.

We'll have to leave it right there for now, however. Thanks very much. I'll be

right back.

(Announcements)

MR. BROKAW: That's all for today. We'll be back next week with a special

Thanksgiving weekend edition. Among our guests at that time, I'll have an

exclusive interview with first lady Laura Bush. Next Sunday right here on

MEET THE PRESS on Thanksgiving weekend. Happy Thanksgiving in the

meantime, everyone. Because, if it is Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.

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Meet the Press, November 23, 2008