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Metaphysics Christopher I've been doing a bit of outside reading on the background material from which the Kult cosmology has been developed and just thought I'd share a couple book titles that might prove interesting for anyone wanting to get some deeper ideas. Cioran, E.M. The New Gods. Translated by Richard Howard Quadrangle. New York: The New York Times Book Company, 1974. This author seems to believe some of the cosmology to be true. He belittles the Demiurge and offers some bizarre insights into death. The end of the book is a series of aphorisms. No introduction or index is included to help the reader find out just what the author is getting at, which makes the whole read that much more creepy. For French speakers here, the book was originally in French entitled "Le Mauvais Demiurge." I was also re-reading Jeffrey Burton Russell's "Satan: The Early Christian Tradition" and his account of Christian Gnosticism (which is concise and very readable). As he presents it, the Demiurge should really be equated with the Devil (Astaroth) and the "true" God should exist, albeit in a very distant relationship to most humans. This becomes problematic in Kult if you take the Messiah, and Awakened human, to be the "real" equivalent of Jesus Christ. In Gnosticism, Jesus was sent from the true God in a form that only appeared human to impart the gnosis to humanity that they might free themselves from the Demiurge. There was no separate Devil-figure. However, in alignment with Kult, Marcion, one of the more prolific gnostic, did say the Devil and the Demiurge were two separate entities, thus confusing matters all the more. I offer this for the sake of discussion and our mutual further education. Erik Growen I will see if I can dig up the books here and give 'em a whirl. Another area which I find personally interesting is the Cathar beliefs that were wiped out by the Catholic church during the Albigensean Crusade (the only Crusade to take place within Europe -southern France). The Cathars held a much more dualistic view than the Catholics with the forces of Good and Evil evenly matched up and ruling separate realms. The 'Good God' held sway over the soul in heaven and the 'Bad God' held sway over our mortal bodies here on Earth (essentially Hell was right here and they were living in it). They also believed in a more personal form of worship that did not require churches or intermediaries (priests etc...) but instead every individual had an equal connection with God. Needless to say it was all very heretical to Rome and thus the bloody Crusade which wiped them out. There is an obvious possible link to Kult with the Hell on Earth analogy as well as the basic dualistic existence of the Demiurge and Astaroth. As far as the Messiah goes, there is an interesting take on Jesus presented in the books 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail', 'The Messianic Legacy' and 'The Dead Sea Scroll Deception' the first two by Henry Lincoln, Micheal Baigent and Richard Leigh and the third written without Lincoln. In them Jesus is presented as a true Messiah ('the annointed one')in the ancient Jewish tradition of a warrior- priest, descended from the holy royal blood of Soloman and David and thus the King of Israel (This royal lineage is backed by the gospels of Matthew and Luke). If this is taken to be the truth then the Awakened human Messiah presented in Kult can be fit in quite easily. In fact an interesting story could be made around the return of the Messiah to Israel in modern times and the impact such a visit would have. (Netanyahu handing over the reins of power to the Messiah, the Arab world's reaction etc.. could be the centre of a scenario). Christopher I certainly don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities on this otherwise very polite forum, but as a Roman Catholic theologian, I thought I'd offer a couple

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  • MetaphysicsChristopher

    I've been doing a bit of outside reading on the background material from which the Kult cosmology has been developed and just thought I'd share a couple book titles that might prove interesting for anyone wanting to get some deeper ideas.

    Cioran, E.M. The New Gods. Translated by Richard Howard Quadrangle. New York: The New York Times Book Company, 1974. This author seems to believe some of the cosmology to be true. He belittles the Demiurge and offers some bizarre insights into death. The end of the book is a series of aphorisms. No introduction or index is included to help the reader find out just what the author is getting at, which makes the whole read that much more creepy. For French speakers here, the book was originally in French entitled "Le Mauvais Demiurge."

    I was also re-reading Jeffrey Burton Russell's "Satan: The Early Christian Tradition" and his account of Christian Gnosticism (which is concise and very readable). As he presents it, the Demiurge should really be equated with the Devil (Astaroth) and the "true" God should exist, albeit in a very distant relationship to most humans. This becomes problematic in Kult if you take the Messiah, and Awakened human, to be the "real" equivalent of Jesus Christ. In Gnosticism, Jesus was sent from the true God in a form that only appeared human to impart the gnosis to humanity that they might free themselves from the Demiurge. There was no separate Devil-figure. However, in alignment with Kult, Marcion, one of the more prolific gnostic, did say the Devil and the Demiurge were two separate entities, thus confusing matters all the more. I offer this for the sake of discussion and our mutual further education.

    Erik Growen

    I will see if I can dig up the books here and give 'em a whirl. Another area which I find personally interesting is the Cathar beliefs that were wiped out by the Catholic church during the Albigensean Crusade (the only Crusade to take place within Europe -southern France). The Cathars held a much more dualistic view than the Catholics with the forces of Good and Evil evenly matched up and ruling separate realms. The 'Good God' held sway over the soul in heaven and the 'Bad God' held sway over our mortal bodies here on Earth (essentially Hell was right here and they were living in it). They also believed in a more personal form of worship that did not require churches or intermediaries (priests etc...) but instead every individual had an equal connection with God. Needless to say it was all very heretical to Rome and thus the bloody Crusade which wiped them out. There is an obvious possible link to Kult with the Hell on Earth analogy as well as the basic dualistic existence of the Demiurge and Astaroth.

    As far as the Messiah goes, there is an interesting take on Jesus presented in the books 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail', 'The Messianic Legacy' and 'The Dead Sea Scroll Deception' the first two by Henry Lincoln, Micheal Baigent and Richard Leigh and the third written without Lincoln. In them Jesus is presented as a true Messiah ('the annointed one')in the ancient Jewish tradition of a warrior-priest, descended from the holy royal blood of Soloman and David and thus the King of Israel (This royal lineage is backed by the gospels of Matthew and Luke). If this is taken to be the truth then the Awakened human Messiah presented in Kult can be fit in quite easily. In fact an interesting story could be made around the return of the Messiah to Israel in modern times and the impact such a visit would have. (Netanyahu handing over the reins of power to the Messiah, the Arab world's reaction etc.. could be the centre of a scenario).

    Christopher

    I certainly don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities on this otherwise very polite forum, but as a Roman Catholic theologian, I thought I'd offer a couple

  • of fine tunings to your exposition. Both are in regard to the Cathars. The medieval Cathars are just a very well-known revival of the persistent error of Gnosticism throughout history. It existed in many forms before them and after them and I experiencing a revival today. The Marcionites and the Valentinians are much closer to the origins of that belief system. It is not correct to say that a Crusade was launched against the Cathars. The Inquisition was. I'm not such a historical revisionist to suggest that no blood was shed in the rooting out of the Cathars, but the Inquisition should not be erroneously confused with that political machine of a few centuries later called the Spanish Inquisition. I am familiar with the titles of the texts on the Messiah, but I have not read them. I understand your explanation however. If one takes an "adoptionist" stance, that is, Jesus was a human who came to a realization of his Divine Mission and thus became the Messiah, than the Kult Messiah works just fine. However, if Jesus is the Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity , as all mainstream Christian Churches attest, than he would have to have been sent by a "good God" (now I'm speaking in gnostic terms) beyond the power of the Demiurge. It all gets very confusing very quickly...

    Erik Growen

    I too do not want any to take offense but I have to disagree with your assessment of the wiping out of Catharism as being part of an Inquisition. Historical fact does not support this. The Albigensian Crusade was called for by Pope Innocent III in 1208 and lasted until 1226, although the last large scale engagement took place in 1213. The call was answered primarily by troops from northern France and were led by the half-English Simon de Montfort. King Philip II took no personal part in the crusade but did urge his Barons to send men to answer the call (and capture the wealthy southern lands while they were at it - politics, as always quickly entering the field). The conflict began when a papal legate, Peter de Castelnau (a Cistercian) was murdered, probably at the hands of one of the Albigensian nobility. It was not until the blood-letting had been over for 7 years, in 1233, and Pope Gregory IX was in power that the Inquisition was called under the control of the Dominicans to root out what was left of the surviving Cathars.

    Catharism was not an error in Gnosticism, but a fusing of Gnostic with Christian and Pagan beliefs by its founder Mani who styled himself an 'Apostle of Jesus Christ', the final interpreter of Zoroaster and of Bhudda.

    All of this not withstanding, the basic belief system of the Cathars can be of use in Kult. It is a fairly straight forward dualistic system which believed in the coexistence of two principles, good and evil, represented by God and the Evil One, light and dark, the soul and the body, the next life and this life, peace and war, et cetera. This life was seen as inherently evil which led to the rather curious practice of suicide through starvation in order to hasten the end of this existence and bring about the next 'good' one. This was not done by all practicing Cathars needless to say.

    I do not, by the way, actually believe in Catharism and I am not trying to defend it or any other faith. I do not pretend to be a theologian, but I am a historian and a political scientist who is trying to present the historical record of the event and the Cathar faith as accuratly as possible.

    By the way, I am quite enjoying the various lines of discussion that you have brought up. It makes the forum a much more interesting place to check out. It has been sorely lacking in the last few months.

    Christopher

    Thanks for the response. Pending checking some facts on my side, I concede to your presentation of the use of a Crusade and the Inquisition regarding the

  • Cathars. I must still clarify a bit on the point of Catharist belief however. I think a certain misunderstanding crept in: I wasn't saying that Catharism was an error in Gnosticism (it's about as gnostic as you can get), but rather that it was an error in the Truth (understood from the medieval' point of view or, as for myself, the believers' point of view). I can only suspect that Mani borrowed his name from the 4th c. Mani, founder of the Manichaeans. Where did you get the idea that the medieval

    Mani would have considered himself an interpreter of the Buddha? It seems strange that any word of that philosophy would have reached so far west. Bringing this back to Kult, straight Gnosticism seems to me to still be problematic. First, the Kult cosmology has fused Gnosticism and the kabbalah, which complicates matters. (Have you read "The Dark Arts," BTW?) But even from a solely gnostic view, the spiritual or good principle wants to help humanity. The Demiurge however fabricated the Illusion and then (possibly) left humanity to suffer under Astaroth. The Demiurge did not offer any "gnosis" to help humanity. Furthermore, I'm still bothered by this Messiah question...