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Transcript of meeting on 6th July 2015 between TfL and their business/ residential tenants, Northwood.
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Northwood Tenants Meeting: TfL
6th July 2015
St John’s Church, Northwood
Peter: I suspect most of you do know who I am, but I am part of the property development team for Transport for London. Thank you very much indeed for coming. Before I ask each of you to introduce yourselves, that lady over there in the corner is Siobhan. Siobhan is part of the tenancy team within TfL. Would you like to say a few words, Siobhan?
Siobhan: Yes, I am part of a new team that was formed recently, working with property. Some of you may know your property managers; Jessica who assists in helping the retailers. I look after most of the businesses on our estate. My job is to ensure that as a tenant you get the most out of your business and, in situations like this, I can help look for new premises or to move within an estate. So, I get to work on many projects like this across London.
Attendees:
Ken (Representative from Townsends Estate Agents);
Peter Byles (Taylormade);
Anthony Till (Taylormade);
Michael Till (Taylormade);
Miss Somani (Residential Tenant); plus 3 including 2 children); and
Kevin McLoughin (Flower stall);
Two representatives from A.J.A Taylor);
Mr Samir Doshi (Kozmic Solutionz);
Mr Kara (Senses);
Mrs Karen Wong (Prospective Tenant 65 Green lane);
Mr Steve Panoyo (Steve’s);
Mrs Stavroulla Panoyo (Steve’s);
Mr Meenesh Shah (Dentist);
Mr Whitefoot (Residential Tenant);
Mr Gavin Robinson (Corals);
Mr Jim Cunningham (Corals);
Mr Sebastian Jesunayhan (Post Office);
Mr Rajesh Shah (Solicitors);
Mr Manoj Shah (Coachworks);
Mr Ifzaal (Dry Cleaners);
Mr Hershida Shah (Station Kiosk);
Messrs Pardivalla (KSA Shoe Repairs);
Miss Sara Ahmed (Residential Tenant),
Mr Hamed (Farmhouse Pizza).
Peter: A bit of background as to where we have come from. Whether you have heard us speak before (more people enter)…So whether you have heard me speak before, this process has been ongoing for a number of years really. My involvement started in February 2014, on the back of a petition that Northwood residents signed against the Bride Hall scheme, for it to be terminated. So in June 2014 we asked the community to tell us how they best see TfL sites and services used to better your town. We asked Northwood Futures, actually make: good, which is the company behind Northwood Futures, to go out and ask the community residents about what they would like to see within your town. Over a 5 month period until October 2014 we gathered quite a number of comments. We then put that back into a design process, by which we produced two options, 2 visions for the site and that was presented at the end of January. I have been to see the majority of you quite a number of times, the latest round of that engagement was when I came to see the majority of retail tenants 3 weeks ago, at the end of May. We reiterated the timeframe and the timeframe hasn’t changed. The timeframe is to look at the design process which will get us to a potential planning application by October / November this year and we are still on track to meet that timetable. I say “potential” because there is nothing guaranteed about this process. There is nothing guaranteed for or against this process. This is a scheme that we have done collaboratively within Northwood and hopefully you will all feel you have had an input into that whether it has been positive or not. The process is, let’s suggest that the planning is successful, the original timescale looked at the planning permission by March / April next year, so that’s 2016. Then we look again at getting a development partner on board to help us build the scheme with us, with construction starting in September 2017. These are the timescales that we have always stated. The latest round of engagement was held from the previous Saturday and it ends on the 8th of July. This round of engagement looks at what the scheme would look like; and what the retail makeup on the ground floor would be. The interim comments from this engagement were uploaded to the website on Saturday (4th July). Again it is a very good turnout we had. It was well-‐supported and a huge amount of commentary was made. But what they are saying is that there is an intention the scheme brings forward a family food and beverage destination within Northwood. So it will attract visitors to Northwood and local Northwood residents would not have to go out to other local towns for dinner on an evening. But there is also a very real and strong support for a number of businesses and a category of business within this room, within the site, there are 4 that come up time and time again.
Tenant: What was the turnout like?
Peter: There were circa 600 over 3 days, which I have got to say is a fantastic number.
Tenant: Question
Peter: Well, you can ask people to come and talk to you and you can ask them to put commentary on the internet, but you can’t make them do it. 600 over 3 days is an exceptional number. I won’t get into an argument about that.
Peter: We can only ask people to talk to us. So let me tell you exactly where we are. The four businesses that are, or should we say categories, that come up time and time again, are the dry-‐cleaners. People tell us that there are two dry cleaners of note in Northwood. They don’t want to lose either of those within the town centre. The second is the cobblers. Now there is a very real relationship between the community, and this comes all the way through the process from June: the fact that there is a very long relationship, a relationship of longevity to that business and that use has been mentioned many times. The third is the barber shop and the fact that there is a relationship there as well. The fourth is the wish to retain the post office in Northwood Town Centre. So there are 4 uses that we will hear and continue to design into the scheme. Now I know you are going to look at this and think I don’t fit within those 4. Right now I am just talking about the retail. We shall get to the residents in a second. But the scheme that is potentially on the table doubles the size of the retail floor space from what we have at present to what could potentially become reality in two and half / three years’ time. So there is an enormous amount of potential going forward. It isn’t a case of saying, okay guys you have 2 years and then after that saying, thank you very much. It is a conversation we have to take forward with each individual. Normally we have a conversation on an individual basis, but I heard what you said two weeks ago to make:good, about the suspicion as to what we have been saying to individuals and what we said to one individuals was the same as what we said to the next individual. So the conversation was a very consistent one, but you can all see now that I am having a consistent conversation with every one of you and I will transcribe this and publish upon the website for transparency..
Tenant: Last year we had people from the NRA saying look after us. How did they know that we were going to need looking after. I would be concerned myself. People agree with me. Last year we had a representative to look after our concerns.
Peter: I can’t control your relationship with the NRA. I am looking for the actual residents, tenants, community as well as the NRA to talk to us. So over the process we have spoken to more than 2000 people, which is quite a significant amount of your electoral role. I appreciate the NRA, councillors and your MP have been involved in the process, but they are supposed to be representatives of you. I wanted to make sure that I talked to everyone. I can’t guarantee those people will talk to us. There has been a year through very many forums, channels and events for everyone to talk to us.
Tenant: But only 600 people were talking to you over the 3 days?
Peter: That was only the last 3 days.
Tenant: How did you contact these people, and were they from Northwood?
Peter: We have all that data, where they chose to give it to us. We asked for their post codes and started to derive a destination of commentary. So if Catherine was here, if make:good was here, she would be able to give you the figures. I would want this to be a conversation between the tenants and TfL, so we haven’t included anyone external. Now I will say a few things of the commentary where the tenants and residents have been less than favourable. Betting shops. It has come up a number of times. Betting shops aren’t something they want to see in the new development. Late night licenses and nightclubs. This is something they do not want to see in the new scheme.
Tenant: How does that match up with the idea of the food destination?
Peter: I think it will be a case of hourly, as in “What is late night?” The conversation has been a food and beverage destination based around a family offer. Something like, I don’t know, no one has mentioned any names, something like a Carluccios or a Pizza Express, or those sorts of offers that will relate to a family audience as opposed to a late night place.
Tenant: So it would be only Brands?
Peter: Look, I only mentioned those names. I have no affiliation with any of those Brands. If anyone wants to come and set up that kind of offer, then I am sure we shall have a look at it. I am really talking about proposition and not individual businesses. I won’t have conversations about individual businesses in this format. That is a private conversation to be had between that particular tenant and the landlord. You all pay different rates, etc.
Tenant: It was mentioned at the exhibition, a lot of big names were mentioned, so what he said is correct, a lot of these names were mentioned.
Peter: I mentioned those brand names to give you an image of the retail proposition, not a guarantee of their particular presence.
Tenant: The desire here was to completely change the face of Northwood from a lovely little community / town / village we are obviously happy with into a big brand cosmopolitan idea.
Peter: No, I don’t think that is true. I just mentioned names and I wish I hadn’t done now. People use those names to set an expectation for what they are asking for.
Siobhan: Peter, may I interject? We are going to be massively increasing the retail space, so our role in the retail team is to ensure that we maintain specific values. These are the types of things that have been voiced in the community groups. The idea is to increase your business and it is my job to ensure that we increase your business. We do this elsewhere; that is what we do. There will be core anchor points and those can be a Costa, a Pizza Express, but on the other hand we have to ensure there is a balance of smaller retail businesses. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the smaller retail spaces have to go to small businesses either, for example, a local resident in Northwood has the biggest franchise for Starbucks in London, and he lives in Northwood.
Siobhan: We will designate business categories that people will want. When we choose a retailer it has to Go To Market. All we can do is identify a category that your community would like.
Tenant: What about Walthamstow?
Siobhan: Well, we didn’t do Walthamstow. We dealt with the station, but with regards to the high street, that was the Council. But if I take you to Haringey or Tottenham. We are doing a lot of work for the council up there and what they are looking for is equal opportunities employment.
Tenant: You just used words like “people want” but this is a TfL development issue, not a Northwood issue. It is not like Northwood said, “hey, Northwood wants this” It is not a case of “Northwood wants”, “Northwood wants”. It is because it is being pushed onto Northwood.
Tenant: Yeah, but I don’t think anyone actually asked anyone if we wanted anything like this. It will destroy livelihoods. You guys are saying that. But it is being pushed onto Northwood residents.
Tenant: What is your information based on?
Tenant: I say “forced”, because that is how I am feeling. But from the beginning when we heard about anything happening, the whole of Northwood got together and we were all saying that we didn’t want anything because it is going to destroy this town. The whole town got together and now Northwood Futures is taking it up because it is being pushed on to them.
Peter: I hear fundamentally your design opinion but I have mentioned that this is a scheme that I am running, but it is. I have always said that. You may well differ.
Tenant: I am not denying. There is just a lack of contact especially for the residential.
Peter: In February 2014 we received the seven thousand five hundred signatures that Northwood raised and it was widely understood. It took a lot of money to get out of the agreement with that developer and we did and we started from scratch. We then asked if there could be any development and no development was an option. Someone could have turned around and said “we don’t want it”. A few people did say that. All the commentary is on the Northwood Futures website. I shall download it for you from the website after the meeting. A very small percentage said that something like 1% if I remember correctly, but it is on the website.
Tenant: If you look at the petition, at the words. The petition said we want no development. Did no one look?
Peter: Well, that commentary has not been consistent. We can show you all the handwritten notes.
Tenant: I think it is not consistent because someone from Northwood Futures came in and things started to change.
Peter: Regardless of how you see them, Northwood Futures are not affiliated to TfL. So looking at the scheme that we have at present, the business tenants that I mentioned, the organisations that the community mentioned over the most recent engagement happen to be consistent throughout the year. We are expecting to promote those that the community wanted to retain. The betting shops are probably the most commercially successful tenants upon the estate, but we are promoting the four categories that the community have requested.
Tenant: This is not a question of trying to see the positive. Some categories like them and some categories, don’t like them. If you have to go to a dentist, going to an NHS dentist, I am surprised this hasn’t come up. How did you get this information?
Tenant: If you were at the workshops, I think you would, I don’t know, I think all the positive that has be seen by some is being pushed forward as negative by you.
Siobhan: If this development doesn’t happen, what do you think will happen to this town?
Tenant: What you are looking for us to say is that Station Approach has been looked after by TfL for the last 15 years. The roofs, the pavements are looking the same. We understand that TfL wants to maximise income, but there is a car park over there that can be built upon if you think it is habitable. But at least look after the existing businesses.
Siobhan: So in terms of what the plans are for afterwards. Has everybody seen those? In terms of the new residencies, the new shops.
Tenant: Well, if you look at option 2, probably, yeah. You asked the question, how do you see the area? What is the width of the new square?
Peter: The width is 25m, I think, off the top of my head at the top of the site, and more like 20m at the bottom.
Tenant: Well, that is one thing. My colleague was told at the beginning of this whole thing 15m. If you are talking about space in the flats.
Siobhan: Okay, so the plans are on the table. Is there anything positive? Does anyone have anything to say about what they are going to bring to the community? Getting more residencies, creating more retail spaces.
Tenant: What I don’t think you realise is that our livelihoods are based in Northwood. For myself, I live, study, work and have religious affiliations in Northwood. My life is based in Northwood. What you guys are doing is kick me out of the area I chose to live in. This is not really an affordable place. If I have to leave where I live for the last 5 years, where I have been paying my rent every month on time, I am being kicked out of Northwood, therefore my study-‐life, my work-‐life, my everything has been disrupted or destroyed and I have to start all over again. So you keep asking us how it is going to improve. Does it sound like it’s going to improve anybody’s life? Their situation? The many people who live and have a business here. Their entire life is in Northwood. So to answer your question, it is not going to benefit us in any way whatsoever. It is going to destroy our lives, uproot us, kick us out and start all over again, when that may mean travelling to college over one hour when I am very close to my college right now which is beneficial to me.
Peter: Let me respond to your comments. In terms of the size and space we have put a comparison on the board with other spaces within London. The proposed space is wider than all 4 of them. You see St Christopher’s place, you see Devonshire Square, you see Columbia Road, the Market. The proposed space we are proposing here is wider than all the other 4 and on exactly the same scale. In terms of your point regarding Residential. We have been speaking a lot about retail. Residential is a point that will be partly able to solved through phasing of the site. Again, I talked to a number of you about how we have phased this development. But it is likely that the block that was the Blockbusters will be the first phase of the site. The second phase will be filling in the triangle that is at the top end of this site, just North of the existing station. So, that will produce a large number of residential units, probably 20, within those first 2 phases. For those two phases, it is perfectly possible for them
to be complete before we start the redevelopment of the other parts of the site. The reprovision of similar residential units within Northwood Town. Talking “towns” sounds very long distance but I would probably say there is 300m between: it is an easier thing to solve than the retail spaces.
Resident: But, in terms of affordability?
Peter: They are similar in terms of all sorts of criteria. There will be affordable units. That is part of scheme, and a council requirement, obviously. Individual conversations will have to be taken forward with Siobhan on how and when a new relocation needs to take place.
Tenant: So, is there a need for housing in Northwood?
Peter: Don’t get me wrong, this needs to be a commercial project. I have always said there is a requirement for the commercial aspect. TfL is not a charity. We derive revenue from all of our estates, not just Northwood, all our land assets, and indeed our services, and drive revenue back into the public transport network. That is what we do, there is nothing to be ashamed of.
Tenant: How much of it goes back into the transport network?
Siobhan: All of it. What profits we make go back into the transport network.
Tenant: What about for Northwood? Not for the whole of the transport network, but just for Northwood?
Peter: We are proposing to build a new train station with step free access, which is something that isn’t there at present. We look to build the car parking facilities, with additional car-‐parking facilities for the retail customers and the residential. We are looking to consolidate and better the bus station, or, should I say, collate the bus services into a bus facility and to better the interchange between the buses and trains. We are looking to produce a taxi rank in Northwood and to better the interchange between trains, buses and taxis. We are looking to bring forward an enormous amount of cycle parking, which at present isn’t provided for. For transport, there is an enormous amount of investment going into this and to underestimate this spend is foolhardy.
Resident: It sounds like it benefits Northwood, but we have to leave Northwood at the expense of others.
Peter: In my opinion, it is better for Northwood, as I have always said.
Resident: But if we have to leave the area because we can’t afford the new spaces for our businesses and I can’t afford one of those flats, where do I go?
Peter: That is looking at a position as though those business weren’t to evolve or expand. Now I think the space around the new square and station will have a better footfall and have a better retail proposition. Now it is Siobhan’s skill and Siobhan’s team’s skill to work with existing businesses to help better their offer and work with local communities and local trade and you can look at a number of instances where she has done this.
Tenant: You keep saying what these schemes are going to do. Have you thought about what the businesses are going to do by the time you have finished these schemes?
Siobhan: I think you have everyone’s question. We have done consultations so far, we have listened to what you have had to say. Whatever is happening in Northwood we really do want it to improve what is happening in Northwood. What we are going to be doing and it will be individual because each of you needs the one to one care, whether it is a residential or a retail tenant. What we are going to be doing for the retail tenants. This is Peter’s outline for residential. In short we are going to be creating some space in the process, where you can relocate if you like. It is a one-‐off relocation. The core business retail categories identified within the community. We do want your opinion on these categories. You may not feel like the post office needs to be protected, but that is something that you guys need to give us your feedback. Once we have created those spaces, my goal is to help you move into those spaces in a bidding process. Now, as a governing body, we have to go to market on a new space, including residential, because if we don’t allow anyone else to bid on it, it leaves us in a very difficult position. However, what I do is make sure that your business plan is crafted to be persuasive enough so that you walk in the door. It is what we call a turnkey. So although it goes to public market, it allows everyone to bid. Those people who genuinely want spaces will be given the assistance they need. A good example can be found in Alperton, where they allow retailers to enjoy what they are doing. So if it is a shop that you want to fit out a bit differently. It could be a post office where we could do something a bit more commuter based with a café in it. That is our role to assisting you with it. That is what we are doing throughout London on similar projects.
Resident: But if you look at existing business though, some places are tiny. The café is tiny, but it is very popular, very busy, very well-‐liked, very appreciated. Did you ask them if they could afford a much bigger space?
Siobhan: I think we have to create a space that is moulded by categories that are chosen by everybody. We need to be frank here. We don’t need 2 estate agents in Northwood. We don’t need two betting shops. This is the opportunity to create some space where people can relocate and that’s what we want with regards to their tenancies.
Tenant: Are you going to tell me that you don’t need another hairdresser in Northwood? I have been here 53 years. Why don’t you do something? I know you are saying you are going to do this and you are going to that. Develop the park. Have the shops go one side and then develop the other side of the road. What about something like that?
Siobhan: Are you from the hairdressers? You are going to have the letting coming up from Jessica and then we will be able to see. If you are on a lease or tenancy that is expiring, we will be putting you on a tenancy at will. It will roll over on an annual basis. That is a resolution for the short term. For the long term, it is my job to find you a space.
Tenant: I want to find a space, why can’t you guarantee a new space and on the same rents?.
Siobhan: What we are going to do is to identify a space for you and it is my job to find a space for you. I would love it if we could say there’s a space, why don’t you take that one [business card]. What we can do is what we do everywhere and it is something we have to do.
Peter: It is against the law, called State Aid. We cannot advantage one individual business, but must seek best value.
Siobhan: We are a public body.
Resident: If you have always been here then, who accommodates them. How can we come to terms?
Siobhan: The spaces are based on the categories chosen by the community and you guys. Right now we need to identify the spaces.
Tenant: Is it fair for a community who didn’t have anything to lose, have to choose now? I think you should be listening to us.
Peter: That is why we are here talking to you. No, it is not just now, we have always been trying to talk to all the residential tenants but no one actually responds to us. If nothing happens between now and December, how many leases expire? So effectively, what we are saying is that we will give you another year’s lease, so you get another year to organise phasing / relocation, etc. You are not the only one. I think there are 5 that expire within this calendar year. So what we are doing is trying is rolling these tenancies over. We keep businesses running instead of redeveloping that unit. Forget about the redevelopment at this point in time. What we need to do is get those pre-‐existing leases running forward. That is a conversation that we all need to have and consider because the high street in Northwood is going to be changing. What I did set out, and apologies if you were not here, is what we got from the latest community consultation and it has been reiterated all the way through this. There are a number of categories within Northwood. They are ones that seem to be held in high esteem. Now everyone wants to retain the post office. I completely understand why. They want to retain the cobblers because there is a longevity in the relationship that the community have. The dry-‐cleaners, of which there are 2, are something that the community want to retain. And the last is the barbers site and again this is something that is held in high esteem in the community and they want it to be retained.
Tenants: There are 7 hairdressers in Northwood. He is saying that the barbers are required and the dentist is not. I am not having an argument. I am saying that if you are looking at the community, you are saying that the barbers are more important than the dentist.
Peter: From a legal position and a democracy position, 10 people might come back to me and say this is not a democratic process. This is so much more than the statutorily ordinary democratic process. We don’t need to do any of this. The planning process will run as normal. This is effectively an addition. I am saying that the conversation is continuing and it will continue. I have been very consistent about when we have come to you with.
Tenant: Are you saying you don’t have to do all of this?
Peter: This is an exemplary process, much more in-‐depth than the planning process requires.
Siobhan: I am really impressed about how you are trying to get the message across about how and what we can do. We appreciate how unsettling this is and we can only imagine.
Tenant: If you are really interested in the Northwood residents, why aren’t you asking people who actually live in Northwood?
Peter: We have spoken to circa 3,000 people from Northwood and have the handwritten feedback.
Tenant: Why didn’t you write to each member of the electoral roll?
Peter: You can’t force people to make those decisions. We have letter dropped all the houses in Northwood several times, we have published in your local newspapers, had events, visited other people’s events and published online. If people have wanted to comment, there has been a multitude of opportunity and time.
Tenant: Why didn’t you write to each resident in Northwood and ask them which asset is most important to them? Is the Post office important to you? Is the Dentist more important to you? Then let them reply.
Tenant: Yes, that is a much clearer process. There are people in this community that say we are being looked after, but there is no way we are being looked after.
Peter: I am sorry that you keep coming back to that. The NRA is an Association of the Northwood Residents. If they are making any comment, they are making comments as individuals. Whatever members of the NRA have to say; they are there to help guide you and collate you isn’t worth 10 of what everyone else has to say; they atre there to help guide you and collate your views. You can’t force people to come and talk to us.
Tenant: Exactly, you can’t force people. You write to them.
Peter: We have letter-‐dropped 4 times. We have published in every press imaginable. We have been on the website about 50 times.
Tenant: Why can’t you write to each individual?
Tenant: Was that residential tenants, because I haven’t received anything?
Peter: We have written to you 4 times.
Tenant: We never received any of the Northwood Futures brochures or advertisements. We had to find out from the businesses. He says that there has been no communication because we did not get it.
Peter: So May 2014, I rang all the numbers personally for all residential tenants that we have on our books. I rang all of them. Over and above that we put business cards under peoples’ doors.
Tenant: Do you have a photocopy, because we don’t receive any of these things.
Peter: That brings me to my second point. We have absolutely blanketed Northwood with information about how you can make contact and where you make comments. There have been 7 or 8 exhibitions, probably more than that.
Tenant: You are not hearing me though. We did not receive anything.
Peter: But what did come through is a personal telephone call and my business card.
Tenant: You are saying that residents of Northwood get this and this and this, but we did not get that. Anything out there is residents. Information is not being displayed properly. It feels like I don’t matter.
Peter: Do you have access to the internet?
Tenant: Yes
Peter: Right. The engagement process is not complete. The latest round completes on the 8th of July and there will be another in September. Therefore, go to Northwood Futures website and make comments.
Tenant: Yes, but make:good doesn’t bother to come and put that through our door. We have not received this and nothing like this in the past as well. I see the neighbours saying “have you seen? Have you seen?” and I say, “No! I haven’t received that!”
Peter: You have my business card, you have my telephone number. Why don’t you ring me ? The engagement process is still going on. The planning process hasn’t even started.
Tenant: May I say something, please? I am a member of the community. I am a dentist. Because the two of you are from outside of Northwood, you don’t understand what this is like. Let me give you an example. I have been here for twenty years and of the old people, one of the ladies came to see me a couple of weeks back for treatment. I have to pull out teeth gradually. She was visibly crying in my chair. She said, “what is going to happen to you?” Now you can understand this. This is the last stage of her life and she has no idea what is going to happen to her. And there is a whole list of people like that who will go to the shoe shop or go to the barbers. Who will help you when you go to do your planning and your application? It’s a very famous story. It the town mouse or the country mouse. Do you all know the story about the town mouse and country mouse? Basically, Northwood is like a small provincial town. They thought they could create it into a mini-‐town. People don’t want a big city. You haven’t told us how many people are coming here. Even if you build 500 houses or enough for 500 people, enough accommodation for 500 people, that is what I heard.
Peter: Yes, and that isn’t true. There are a lot of rumours, but please do ring me.
Tenant: Okay, then how many people?
Peter: The reason why in the latest round of consultation or engagement we didn’t subdivide the floorplate, is because we don’t know what the housing mix the planning authority wish to see. But when we went to our January exhibition, we had 141, we did make reference to that.
Tenant: What I don’t understand is that you are going to destroy my business. With the construction, it is going to stop all business in Northwood. What Steve suggested is a good idea. Maybe develop a car park first. Then go and develop the front bit.
Peter: What Steve was suggesting is a phased approach to developing which is one that we are going to take. We can’t develop all of this at the same time because, for one, you need to keep an operational community car park. You need to keep access into the station. That can’t close. So, the development needs to be phased, so I absolutely agree with what Steve is saying. Let me just come back to your last point in terms of relocation businesses to the bottom end of the site. That is absolutely miles away from high street. It wouldn’t be a sustainable location to be in the Sainsbury scheme. The supermarket was at the top end of the site between two levels of car parking and
residential at the bottom end of the site. I am not lying to you. I have never lied to anyone and I am not lying to you now.
Tenant: We are not saying you are lying.
Tenant: It is our responsibility in the end. You know the 60s they built tower blocks. They started degrading 20 years later and this caused much unrest with the community. Can you say what you are proposing right now is not going to break up the community?
Peter: I believe we are doing the right thing for Northwood because we have been asking the community. It has not been my responsibility. It hasn’t been my choice to keep the barbers as opposed to keeping the estate agents. It has been effectively people who have been telling us this. At the exhibition in January, we had comments like, “I am so pleased that you brought forward my idea of this”. It wasn’t my idea, it was their idea.
Tenant: I have about a thousand customers and none of them are happy with this deal. I can’t say you are lying, but now, I can’t say that my customers are saying, “Oh yes, I really like what you are doing”. There is not only one. I gave them the brochure to sign.
Peter: When you hear that, can you ask them to come in and write that down for us?
Tenant: They did. They signed all the petitions.
Peter: This is not what we are hearing. It has been overwhelmingly positive.
Tenant: The human brain is conditioned. When you walk into an exhibition with 10 plaques. When that diagram went by and Northwood Futures became quite prominent, with these wonderfully coloured and expensive boards and things like that, with choose this or choose that. That is why.
Peter: Can I tell you where the schemes came from? Those 2 choices, and it was a choice. They didn’t come from out of thin air. We put together scenarios of different kinds of use, access, scenarios in the public realm and put the back together in new scenarios that were complimentary, but were also viable. We wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t viable.
Tenant: Are you saying from the initial meeting in July in Northwood?
Peter: Yes.
Tenant: I remember that we said as a team would fight the development.
Peter: From July to October the community wrote the brief and the brief comprised all the comments were collated into one document.
Tenant: Who?
Peter: Everybody. So, during the 5 month period people would come in and make comments. These were all collated into 4 categories, wants and don’t wants. On the back of that a design team helped the community visualise this brief through workshops; within this room, and we probably held 7 or 8 of them. We would concentrate on different scenarios, where the access would be, keeping the
station entrance where it is and bringing the Central way, where you would put space on the site, where it was an example of access. We looked at many interesting scenarios.
Tenant: It seems like you are digressing.
Peter: All those scenarios were put back together from people’s commentary and then put together in a compatible way.
Tenant: Now, there are 17 or 18 businesses here. I have a newsagent by the station. We supply 350 houses every single day. Most of my customers are over 60. They hardly come out of their houses, most of them are retired, old aged, and we serve these people, which is a community service. You should come and have a look at us on a Monday morning, when they come out, if they come out. You should see the queue. They just want to talk to us. This is Northwood. This is totally Northwood. You can ask Gary, the fruit man, how many people come to see him just to talk.
Peter: So, I will reiterate because you seem to suggest this is the end of days for your businesses and it isn’t.
There are five leases that expire before this calendar year. There are five leases that expire before this calendar year. Instead of those lapsing, we will grant 1 year rolling leases to allow time for a relocation / phasing solution. Even if we prioritise the four mentioned business categories, we are almost doubling the amount of retail, so this is a huge opportunity for continued discussion.
Tenant: I supply 350 homes every single day which is important to these local people.
Peter: Within this new scheme, the amount of floor space doubles. So all I am really saying to you now is that we have heard through the consultation process that there are 4 categories of business that they want to prioritise. The rest we can continue to talk to. When you talk to Siobhan’s team there is an enormous amount of floor space to play with. I am not suggesting that there is no space for any individual in this space, but I am not giving you a guarantee on that. That is one thing I have to be very clear on.
Tenant: That is something I just said:
Peter: I can’t give you a guarantee but neither do you have one already. You have a term within your existing lease. No one forced you to sign your lease terms. What I mentioned earlier on, there are 5 of you within the existing site that won’t have come December if we didn’t renew it. So, this is a case of saying, is your position set in stone? No, it isn’t. You signed a lease with a fixed term. This process is here to evolve into a new scheme, starting with the community’s comments.
Tenant: What about democracy? Does it mean that you can take one of our places any time? I am from Afghanistan and in Afghanistan they come with a gun and tell you they are going to take your property. And now you come with a suit and tie and ask if you can take my property. It is exactly the same thing for me. You come with a suit and tie and say you are going to give me till December and then you are going to take my property. If you ask me, I am not giving you anything.
Peter: I just said a second ago that, even with fair wind, there won’t be a development until the September 2017. We aren’t looking to let the leases lapse between now and then. We shall continue to have a discussion going on. We mean to make this work. We talked about phasing the site to be able to have the swing space that Siobhan mentioned. But we are rolling those leases over and keeping those businesses alive, so we can come to a long term solution. So that is what I am saying. I am not suggesting that I have a gun to your head. I don’t have a gun to your head.
Tenant: It means exactly the same thing. You are taking my business. It means the same thing.
Siobhan: It is both Residential and retail, so it is for anybody. We will organise meetings to understand your needs. Because we have heard from some tenants saying that they want to be released from leases. Okay, I will be frank, once you give us that information we do a map. You are right, Peter, we cannot guarantee anything because we are a public body. If we were a private body, we would be able to handle this very differently, more commercial. But because we are a public body we have to put everything to market. But all we can do is assist you through that process. I can tell you now that I have not failed on one of my tenants ever in winning a shop.
Tenant: You know these preferred categories? Why didn’t you write to all the tenants and ask them which 4 they would choose?
Siobhan: I think Peter and I will have to take that away. I don’t think that is something Peter and I can decide.
Tenant: Because what I believe is that what Northwood Futures comes up with is suspect.
Siobhan: We can’t make that decision today. The categories have been flagged to us. We need to prioritise.
Tenant: Before you make your decision, get the society (it doesn’t cost that much money) to send letters to every resident in Northwood, on the subject of the 4 categories, asking them for their feedback.
Peter: To be honest that will happen as part of the planning application process anyway. The local authority will publish this to all the local electorate. I have to say we have done it 7 or 8 times already, through numerous channels.
Tenant: What are you afraid of? That your 4 categories are going to be crooked?
Siobhan: Not at all. If I had to choose a category I would choose the newsagent, because I look after newsagents. What I suggest is that individually, I shall leave my business card, we have conversation. We do have people who specialise in your categories, so they can help you as well. I think there are lots of individual points coming across and you do need to talk to us individually. You can see I am an open and honest person. There is nothing hidden, but we do need to take some of these individual issues and deal with them individually.
Child resident: Northwood is a very calm area and I to live here because they have schools that are nearby and Hard 8 just got built and if you had to tear it down, it would be unbearable.
Siobhan: Well done. It is very fair and you know what, we know that it is very upsetting. Do you know what it was like the first time I met all of you?
Tenant: Now, in your email, it said that you wanted to meet today, but also to meet again in a few weeks’ time with our MP.
Peter: Nick Hurd was due to attend a meeting at the end of July. However, he is unavailable and therefore this date may be in September now. We will arrange for Nick to be able to attend.
Tenant: It would be nice if we could meet up again in two weeks’ time. Please consider writing those letters.
Siobhan: I think most importantly is to speak to you all individually.
Tenant: That is fine.
Siobhan: And listen to your concerns because we are probably going around in circles here. My door is open. I am happy to talk to you. I do think we do need to get across that we are creating a space that is accommodating some of the businesses and hopefully most of the tenancies as well.
Tenant: I need to ask, if I am putting a bid in for a shop, I would need to relocate in it.
Siobhan: That would be something that is part of our assistance package. There is myself and a new girl, Natasha, who helps me. And second are the project team, who help retailers go in and fit out their shop. That is not to say that they go and choose your shop-‐fittings for you. That is very much your choice. We make sure you have that assistance to help you. We are considering the financial assistance at the moment.
Tenant: Can I ask a simple question? We have been through this whole process and why hasn’t there been a better solution to this.
Siobhan: I bet I could sit you all down and you would all have your own opinion on Northwood. Do you know how difficult it is to please everyone? You can’t just do that.
Siobhan: The community are coming to our drop-‐in meetings. They are probably your customers, so we do have to listen to all the views. When people come into your shop, you need to send them to us, so we can hear their opinions as well. And we have heard the positive and the negative. We are listening and we are trying to map our way through this. But what we are ultimately trying to do is create something slightly different for Northwood, but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t going to be the community that it already is. I come from Beckingham, in the South of London. I thought, “Yeah, I will live here”. I came up here and I said to Peter, “This like where I come from”. So I know how you feel.
Tenant: You are aware that Hillingdon is one of the boroughs that has the highest levels of air pollution in London. Your development: how much more air pollution is this going to create? The council is obviously wanting to reduce the number of deaths caused by air pollution. Now you guys are saying you want to come in and create air pollution.
Peter: That is not what we are saying.
Siobhan: I think it is the highest because of Heathrow. So a ceasefire on Heathrow being expanded.
Peter: I am assuming you are talking about the car fumes.
Tenant: We had a smoggy day here the other day when you could barely breathe.
Peter: What else are you suggesting is causing the air pollution?
Tenant: Two weeks ago on a Friday, it was smoggy, and I was suffering from allergies and I couldn’t breathe properly. Are you suggesting that you are going to be developing here for 3 years, however long it takes to build that? What is that going to cause? Plus, all the congestion that it will cause and the diversions that will need to be made.
Peter: Understood. A couple of points in relation to that: One, London needs housing. It needs to go somewhere. Secondly, Hillingdon does have parking standards. Thirdly, we are TfL. We want to put people on public transport and drive away from private transport. So, as part of this scheme, we are trying to create as many sustainable routes as possible, including car clubs, which is something that we are looking at that we have looked at elsewhere. We are ensuring that we have homes built right near the station, so that people can go straight into London, via electricity, as opposed to diesel. If they do need to drive out, they go hire a car.
Tenant: I am not talking about that. I am talking about the actual development, not the result of.
Peter: London needs new homes. There is no doubt of that. We are going to be building houses of the highest environmental standards.
Tenant: During those 3 or 4 years you are going to be increasing the air pollution by bringing in bulldozers and so on.
Peter: In terms of onsite mitigation, that will have to be put into the waste management plan, and a construction management plan. That, again, is governed by the local authority. That is National Policy.
Tenant: We know you are talking to the council. We can understand why you are a bit apprehensive, but what I am trying to say to you, that at the end of the day, please don’t forget that this is a community. You are going to destroy it.
Tenant: I would like to convey to you, on behalf of everyone here, that we are very passionate. We see things getting developed and they haven’t stopped because none of us have cried or said, “No, this is not right”. Do your job, but please take on board what we all of us are trying to say to you.
Peter: Let me just make a comment with regards to that. Throughout this whole process, we have tried to get to what Northwood really is, because nobody knows Northwood better than the people who live here. I have been here 30 times. I don’t know it as well as people who live here and that is something that we have been asking people to tell us and tell us and tell us and tell us. We don’t want this to be the same as Harrow, it is not the same as Harrow. This scheme is different from South Kensington. It is different to Morden. It is different to Whitechapel. So the people from Northwood know what they want. So I am asking what sort of retail proposition do the people of Northwood want. What sort of height do people want? What sort vernacular / style do they want?
What sort of material do they want? What sort of Public Realm do they want? We have been having this conversation since June last year. I am asking the character. I am asking the feel. I am asking the atmosphere. And that has brought the community together, whether you think it has made the community go against us or brought the community together for the scheme. It has been a very strong talking point for the community.
Tenant: What happens if they reject the plan?
Peter: If they reject the plan, then we walk away and we look elsewhere at TfL’s redevelopment potential.
Tenant: Are you not going to appeal the decision?
Peter: It depends what the decision is based on.
Tenant: There is a possibility of you getting a refusal?
Peter: If it was something that was cast-‐iron and the point of the scheme was nonsense, then we wouldn’t bother appealing. If it was based on spurious decisions, then yes, we will appeal it.
Peter: It never got to the council. The council have questions at this point in time. They don’t have opinions. Planning authorities very rarely have opinions until you get down to the planning process. If you are going on an information gathering exercise, which is usual, they will say, “Have you considered this, have you considered that? What is this and what is that?” Scope and traffic . We want you do these sort of investigations in terms of risk assessments. There is water on the site, so we might have to do that sort of thing. In terms of traffic trip determinations; in terms of retail impact; In terms of surveys.
Peter: Affordable housing is a variable feat. It depends what sort of viability the scheme has at that point in time and what the local authority’s position is. The local authority’s starting point is 30% and if you aren’t providing that level then the scheme need to show to be invisible. We are not at that point yet.
Tenancy: With regard to car-‐sharing, are you telling people or pushing them to have a house that has only one car parking space? Some people do need a car to travel to work and it isn’t always easy and the transport system is not always reliable.
Peter: I don’t own a car. I live in central London. I have 2 children and I am married. We don’t have a car. We hire a car. We make use of a Zip car, which a lot of people in my area seem to make use of as well. TfL is a transport organisation and we want people to travel by public transport and we don’t want people to drive. So the different offer the residential accommodation will bring will have varying degrees of car parking. So, for example, the town houses at the bottom of the site, they are likely to have 1 or 2 cars. They will probably be allocated one and they will have to purchase a second if indeed they need to. If there might be a one bedroomed flat immediately by the station, it is unlikely that there would be a car parking space related to that unit. There might be a car pool car parked in the car park and the resident would be given access to it.
Tenant: What if there are not enough car parking spaces?
Peter: There will be visitors’ spaces available and, indeed, they will be signed like the rest of them.
Tenant: Well, if you increase the footfall, you are coming in to Northwood and you are not coming from walking distance. So I bring my car and there is going to be a problem of where to park.
Peter: The number of parking spaces we can provide of site is in accordance with Hillingdon Policy. They don’t want us to provide too many because they don’t want congestion. They won’t let you provide too little because then cars will be parked in the general road network. That is also controlled by the local authority. Car parking and zones. TfL want to drive people to public transport. That is what we are here for.
Tenant: I want to ask about my shop. It needs refurbishing, basically. If TfL is going to do it, then I might not be able to afford it. How do I know I can afford a relocation?
Peter: But we haven’t sub-‐divided the space because we didn’t know the make-‐up of the retail proposition. So we have increased the floor space but in terms of saying the units are going to be bigger, on that plan, I have got 3 that are enormous because they haven’t been subdivided.
Tenant: All of us wants a place. Do you think there will be enough for everybody?
Peter: There is double in that space.
Tenant: It seems like some businesses are getting priority.
Peter: It is not my decision to prioritise one above another.
Tenant: It is like one dentist can have his practice and another can’t. I have worked all my life to have this business and I can’t have another life to start over again with another business. I am a professional. Is that fair?
Tenant: As you say it is not guaranteed the residential prices, the leases. We are going to start our whole lives and that is why we are so emotional.
Tenant: As far as I understand the law, the tenants also have rights to the property. The landlord can’t just say, “Leave your property. I am giving it to someone else”
Siobhan: You have an excluded lease. You take the shop for a term of the lease which is normally 6 years. At the end of the 6 years, as a landlord, we have every right to take the property back. That is the terminology of an excluded lease. The same applies to a tenancy with regards to a residential. The difference with those of you who have a protected lease is that from the start of the lease, it is your property, and at the end of the lease, and you have every right to go back to court to renew your lease. It is called the 1954 act. Jessica, who is your property surveyor for this area, will be writing to all of you to extend your lease on the roll over previously mentioned, which means your tenancy goes on trading and we are not going to be taking your properties back, until the development starts.
Tenant: You mentioned the first phase of development. My boss is Adrian Taylor. How soon will this affect us and how much notice will we be given?
Peter: Even with fair wind, there is no likelihood of anything happening before September 2017. That is the date that we have continually given out.
Siobhan: I would expect each one of you to have a conversation with myself and with your property manager. There are some people who have written to us and have said that they want to leave their shop.
Tenant: What if you don’t have a shop?
Siobhan: Same terms. In terms of Affordability, let me put your mind at rest. One of the key things: we are trying to move away from the square footage rent, to move people onto turnover leases, so you can expect to do more sales from the shop. The small business is absolutely brilliant because instead of dealing with a whole mountain of rent, what they do well is share the risk with the landlord. That can help around affordability. Especially if we have identified a swing space for a shop that might be bigger than what you were expecting. We like to encourage drycleaners and shoe repair shops, throughout London, to merge into one shop. Because generally those two businesses together really thrive together. You can have two tenants trade in a shop. I can take you to Victoria, where there is a lady called Jacky Rogers , and her dad has had a coffee shop for 40 years and she is in the 41st year and we have just helped her do a shop up. She has just started doing dry cleaning and shoe repairs together in the one shop. It is a separate business and it works very well. So those are the types of things that we can help you map out in the future. I am busy working where the National Federation business newsagents. I have got 3 tenants doing their shops up and we are subsidising doing that. He went away and when he came back we put his bid together for the shop and he won the shop. So we have done this elsewhere and it does work.
Tenant: No, we understand your development plan, the scheme, the triangle. I don’t think you understand that we are concerned about our livelihoods which we have chosen to be based in Northwood. It is an amazing town, Northwood. People know one another. It is the loveliest little town. There is no hard crime. We are all friendly with each other. I am speaking on behalf of my residential neighbours because they said they were at work this evening. I am very happy to be here, but to be uprooted, especially the residential tenants, for x amount of years and the building takes place and God knows what happens in the end. It is uprooting our lives and we are based in Northwood.
Siobhan: We are hearing that. We genuinely are and that is the reason that we are here tonight to listen to your reasons and that is why we create
Child resident: You lived away from Northwood. I grew up in it. It is sad when someone comes in and tries to demolish it.
Siobhan: I can understand you. I live in a community just like yours. If it was happening to me I would feel the same.
Tenant: What are we not trusting you or believing you better? I remember the first time we met up with TfL and there was a gentleman, I don’t remember his name, he had broken his leg. I am going to take all your property and we are not going to give you anything. Now you tell us this. Who do we believe? Who is right?
Peter: I do know that is what he said. We didn’t break our agreement with BrideHall because of a pang of goodwill. We heard what you said. We apologised and said that we wouldn’t do this in a unilateral way. We came and asked what you want to happen to Northwood.
Tenant: There are really only two things. We are having this meeting to hear about retail. You just said there is going to be much more retail space. Do you think there is enough market to get 30 retail spaces? I am just saying. There is going to be a Starbucks. Have you done your homework? Are there enough customers? There are 17 of us. Are you going to have so many other retailers to fill the spaces and have the customers to allow for all those retailers. We will have our businesses and the other customers on the street. You are saying that the profits go into a profit centre in TfL, and the money goes back into the transport system. So it shouldn’t have cost this community ever.
Siobhan: You are right. That is where our roles come in. The first thing that we do is do statistics and run the data. What we are going do, Tottenham Hale is the perfect example, we pinpoint Tottenham and FIND OUT what types of businesses are there. Let’s say there are ten coffee shops. I don’t think the people in Tottenham need so many coffee shops because there are ten and you don’t need that many. At the station, let’s say there’s two newsagents. Someone comes along offering the third newsagent. We turn that person away as part of our limiting process because we trying to help necessity. In Leytonstone we have a lovely little café that comes down out of the front of the station. Around the corner there is another café, but they were different. So we try to ensure that the category we are attracting do something different.
Tenant: We are losing our community as a business. The reason I moved to Northwood is because it is green. Spacious and less crowded. And now the property people say, because it is less crowded, we can’t allow you to stay. And now it is going to be like the shops in Harrow. Are we having this meeting to actually get our views out there and really putting it into a process and understanding that?
Peter: Can I make a point? We are having this meeting for 3 reasons: one, because I want continually tell you about the timescale that we have. I sat down with you in May, and tell you about the engagement process. You then asked to have a collective meeting. That is the second reason. The third reason is I do want to hear what you have to say.
Tenant: We appreciate that.
Peter: My second point: Continually through the last year we have heard that we don’t eat out in Northwood. This what we heard continually, so all that retail spend has been leaked away from Northwood. When Sainsbury’s had their proposal to come here, now this isn’t my report, it is their’s, without even talking about a retail report, they said that there was a leakage out of Northwood of 45%. People would get into their cars and drive out of town to go shopping. That is quite a big percentage.
Tenant: If you stay in Northwood, if you go two doors down for dinner, it is like an outing.
Peter: Maybe you don’t have that offer in Northwood, maybe you will get it in the future.
Siobhan: Where do you go shopping for your kids clothes in Northwood?
Tenant: On the internet.
Siobhan: You just said that people don’t choose to shop in Northwood.
Tenant: When I first came here there were five mens’ wear shops, 3 shoe shops, 6 ladies shops, 2 for kids.
Siobhan: So these people are choosing to shop elsewhere.
Tenant: People go to a shopping mall, Harrow on the Hill, Westfield.
Tenant: The shop around the corner, the Clothing store, no one wants to take it, because people only want shoe shops. Nothing else.
Siobhan: We don’t understand the argument that you don’t want your town centre to not have more retail space back in it.
Tenant: I thought about renting the shop where they used to sell stationery, but for the amount of floor space, it was going to too expensive because I would not be able to attract enough customers to warrant having such a big shop. It was a wise decision not to go ahead and rent that shop. Most people buy their things on the internet. Northwood has enough services providing people with what they require. It is a very nice centre, but the variety of that project, in terms of rents, someone will move from the high street into your centre and you will lose business on the high street.
Siobhan: We see this a lot. For one project we were working on a Pound shop, PoundLand. We got the whole shop ready and then they said that isn’t what we want, so we got some small businesses to go and reenergise the store and the shop was changed. The apathy on your high street can be changed, if you let retail teams like ourselves to get in and make the energy change.
Tenant: What is the population in Willesden?
Peter: Is your point to say that if we double the amount of floor space in the new scheme, units will sit empty?
Tenant: They will be empty, yes.
Peter: Would you like to reduce the amount of retail space?
Tenant: Just leave it alone.
Tenant: It keeps going back to the development process and the development of Northwood, but I am worried about my future. I have lived here for the last six years. I have lived all over England and I chose to stay here because of the amazing atmosphere and environment because of what it is. Central London, I will never go back there again. I love this place. My future, my whole life will be disrupted. I have to find a new job. I have to find a new place that I can afford. My college won’t be accessible to me. Our whole livelihoods are gone.
Tenant: You have been here for 6 years. Other people are also concerned about their livelihoods and futures.
Siobhan: You really have to talk to us individually, so we can map it out what you want.
Tenant: Why don’t you give every business the right? You are wasting time. Why can’t you insure them if they are paying their rent and rates?
Siobhan: I am sorry that you feel like that, that me taking the time to come and talk to you is a waste of my time. We are trying to introduce you to someone else who can help you understand what you can do with your future. If you don’t pay attention to that dialogue then, that is up to you. We need to have a few one-‐on-‐ones this evening. What we are trying to do is highlight a few categories that the local community have identified as a priority. If you feel that your priority is better, then you need to voice that.
Tenant: Now some of these businesses have survived 50 years. If they have survived 50 years, then they are a priority. It doesn’t matter who it is, they have survived. That is a priority in itself.
Peter: That is a fair point. In response to that we have to be whiter than white in terms of the prospect, in terms of the conversation we are having with people going forward, so just because you have been here 20 years, doesn’t mean to say that you have the same rent for the next twenty years. The agreement that we have is a legal one. It talks about rent renewals. It talks about rent increases. I am agreeing with you. Longevity has some sustainability within this town. So when that period comes to an end, we need to have a renegotiation. That is based upon the market value at that particular point in time. If you cannot pay that, anywhere, not just in Northwood, you can’t just decide “oh well, he has been here for 20 years, I am just going to charge him half”.
Tenant: Most people have agreed to the rent increases. I don’t see anyone who doesn’t agree to a rent increase which is reasonable.
Peter: When we do come to a new lease, it won’t just be a case of just rolling it over, it needs to be out in the market and it needs to be bid upon. That is just what happens in the public sector. That needs to be the case. Because you have been there and been operating for 20 years, that shows that there has been a longevity and a sustainability in the business. That will be a positive for you. We are not a charity. We are not going to run around and say, “He has paid his rent for all 20 years. Let’s let him have half the rent”.
Tenant: We are not asking for favours.
Peter: I am exaggerating to illustrate, but longevity means you understood the local market and that is favourable for you.
Tenant: I am a bit confused by this whole process. What have we achieved tonight? What decision has been made?
Peter: No decisions have been made, we are all here to discuss concerns.
Tenant: When you speak to certain businesses, how do you go about giving them a unit or not?
Siobhan: We are going to meet individually, person-‐to-‐person. According to the categories you can come to us with a bid.
Tenant: So if one of the categories is shoe shop, can anyone apply for one of the shoe shops?
Siobhan: Yes.
Tenant: So, if I own Tinsels, the shoe shop, and I have been running a shoe shop business before, then you will give me on of the units for a shoe shop.
Siobhan: When we identify the different categories, we identify the platform, whether it is going to be brand or independent. For those categories chosen by your local community, the people who matter.
Tenant: Don’t we matter?
Siobhan: Yes, I mean the community, being you. We identified the four categories for swing space for independents, so we can encourage them. For local businesses. On the scoring matrix, when you bid on the rent. It is not just the rent. What are the employment statistics? What can they offer? All these things matter.
Tenant: So, you will be helping the local businesses.
Siobhan: Anyone who wants help, can get help. If you have done a very persuasive business plan and followed my advice, you will have the best leg to stand on. To give you an example, St Pauls Station: there was a bid for a shop there. A small start-‐up, his first juice bar and won because he followed the advice we gave him.
Tenant: But Peter says that any new start-‐up with no experience, you won’t keep.
Siobhan: No, these are the types of customers we want to attract. It is useful to show us the quality of product, but more importantly, will the pay minimum wage and on top of it all, I am going to employ six people. Half the rent or the cost of it because when we scored you had a higher score because you got points for all those things.
Tenant: With my business, will I have to do my own bid?
Siobhan: It is when you are identifying new space for yourself. It is not just the bid process that this is. What you are also saying, “This is what I want to be doing for my business”. We will be helping you aligning with what you are doing. ”If I had a new shop, you know, I have never liked the counter over there, I would move the counter over there”. That is the whole process we go through. To get to where we are coming from and to get to where we are going, what we are offering assistance. If you don’t want assistance, then that is your choice. But generally, unfortunately, this is a process that we are going to have to go through.
Tenant: You are talking about assisting us and you are a public body, but you must put it out there to do the public bidding for. Now you know who we are, you now have the authority to be able to protect these people.
Peter: There is no state aid. It is against the rules.
Tenant: If you really want to help us, protect us.
Peter: TfL can provide the community’s wishes, by category, and then provide help and assistance to you.
Tenant: The four categories. Are we going to score against that matrix?
Peter: So, are the public going to score against the matrix and agree upon it?
Tenant: No
Siobhan: So, you want me to show you the scoring process of a totally different department that they use to mark your bid?
Tenant: Protected and unprotected leases.
Siobhan: What this means for us financially is that if you are vacated, then you may be due compensation. The property team would be the best to advise you on that. Once we have reviewed every property that isprotected. Do you want to retain the post office? Yes, I do want to stay. Mr Post Office, we can offer you an option to bid on the post office. Would you like us to help you bid on that? Obviously, yes. I don’t want to trade here anymore. I want to take my protected lease and our Property Team will put a value on it if you are bought out of your shop. That is basically what a protected lease means.
Siobhan: The property team will give you a calculator at the time. It is normally 2 times the rateable value.
Peter: It depends on how long you have left on your protected lease. There is a spreadsheet. He pays this much rent. He has so many years left.
Siobhan: So that actually gives you something to think about. If you choose to come out of your property and the post office is available to bid on.
Peter: Can we have one more question? It is ten past nine.
Tenant: I don’t want to be difficult but how long have you been in this job?
Tenant: The previous man said he wasn’t previously part of this team.
Peter: Anthony Bickmore was my boss. He has retired and I have taken over his job.
Tenant: I want you to stay in that job, if we can.