Power and Passivity in Relationships

al.turtlecounseling.com

Power and Passivityin Relationships

Understanding the Dynamics of Emotional Symbiosis Based on Harville Hendrix Presentation

“The Disease of the Disease”9/30/94 ColoradoQuest

By Al TurtleNovember 7, 2008

To run this PowerPoint on your own. Press Spacebar to advance. Also > (left arrow) and < (right arrow) may

work. There are 52 slides with a lot of in-slide animation.


This is a presentation of my ideas, beliefs, discoveries, and understandings. It is based on my forty years of

studies, experiments, trials, and reflective teaching. My path has led me through college, extended post-

graduate work, and into the therapy room – from both ends. In the past 14 years I have closely observed the

troubles of well over 2400 couples.


With all that said, this is still just a collection of my opinions. They are my best ideas, but still only mine. I

expect you to disagree. I hope you disagree.

I share my thoughts with you so that you may add something new to your own thinking, beliefs, and

practices. If you find some ideas useful, I encourage you to use it.

If you don’t find them useful, drop them in the wastebasket on the way out.


Questions I have enjoyed hearing

• Power and Control

• Gender politics

• Exposure of children

• Efficacy of Batterer Treatment Programs

• Perpetrator/Victim discussions

• Prediction and Prevention– “Stop it” one step before it happens


In the Therapy Room

• “70% of couples are pre-DV”

• ? Value of Couples Therapy in DV

• My experience• 100% of couples I see are Pre-DV• 40% admit to DV in the first session

– 90% of those admit to witnessing DV in families


Start from New Place

• Decade ago I repeatedly witnessed Marriage Therapists become verbally violent among each other.

• Shift in syntax and use of words

• Marriage violence extends into 2nd & 3rd marriages even if Individual Counseling involved.

• Marriage Therapist divorce rate very high.• Also for police, firemen, those with “degrees of difficulty” (PhDs,

LLDs, MDs, DDs, and especially ex-military

• School violence studies and “bullying”• Secrecy, blindness• Blame and guilt of caretakers/guardians/teachers, etc.


Bully

A person who wants their way, and if they don’t get it,

they make other people unhappy.


Emotional Symbiosis

1. A belief that there is a correct way to view or value everything.

2. A limited awareness that all people see everything differently.

3. A tendency to denigrate, demean, put down, kill others when they display their difference. H. Hendrix 1994


Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System

• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important

B&W Ask the Master

MASTER

SLAVE


SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

1) Never know when the “obedient” slave will rebel, revolt, quit, leave. Slaves do not talk.

2) Masters make all the decisions, but know ½ the information on which to base those decisions. They often make poor decisions.

MASTER

SLAVE


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Humiliate, degrade, demote, shame, ridicule, intimidate, beat down, hit, etc.

Threaten: “All people think this..” “Patriots think this…” “Everyone sane knows that….” “All right minded people believe ….”


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out Fire, excommunicate, discharge, exile, shun, ostracize, eject, divorce, “send to your room”

Threaten: “My way or the highway”


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out Symptom #1

One person is quiet.

Symptom #2

ArguingTwo trying to be Master at the same time, or both avoiding being Slave.

Both using Punishment Systems!

Two Bullies.

To me, arguing

is a hopeful sign.Both want

something better.


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution

“Allergic reaction to being slave.”

Consider teenagers

DemocracyOne person – one vote

FRIEND FRIEND

Very stableUnfamiliarWin - WinNatural

Very inefficient Requires Patience

Must be trained.

Boot Camp!

Win

Lose

in the short run. In the long run it is much more efficient, just slow!

Fortunately this is an adult skill everyone can learn.


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND

Very stableUnfamiliarWin - WinNatural


Win

Lose

A skill to be learned, not a fixed trait. An adult skill. Children are born impatient. Must be learned. Humans are designed to learn it.

If you don’t learn it, you will be attracted to Master/Slave.

NO TRUTH Multiple Points of View

Truth is outside the system. Everyone experiences it differently. With one vote each, who has the truth?


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND

Very stableUnfamiliar



MasterTalkA sentence that implies a single truth exists. Master has that truth. Threatens any who disagree. Purpose is to keep order. POWER.

A sentence that implies a single truth exists, Slave doesn’t have it. Signals conformity, obedience, conflict avoidance. POWERLESSNESS.

Dialogue A sentence that implies more than one view of the truth exists. It makes room for sharing, especially of disagreement. SHARED POWER.


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk

Dialogue


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk

Dialogue


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND


Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience

NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View

MasterTalk

Benefits

• Peaceful• Fair• Respectful• Reliable• Trust building• Enduring

Benefits

?

Benefits

?

No responsibility

Victimicity

BlameAll people are responsible, 24/7

For What?

Requires Boundary Skills

Dialogue

All responsibilityControl


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk

All people are responsible, 24/7

For What?

Must learn Boundary Skills

DialogueSymptoms:

1. One person is quiet,

2. Arguing,

3. Blame, Guilt,

4. Victimicity, innocence

5. MasterTalk

Learn: make it familiar

Good Boundary Skills

Control

No responsibility


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk


For What?

Dialogue

Control

No responsibility


Wants Control andNo responsibility

Uses Punishment System w/o Truth System.

PASSIVEMASTER


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk


For What?

Dialogue

Control

No responsibility


PASSIVEMASTER

Control & No Responsibility

1. How many kids in your family? Add 2.

2. When all together who was boss/bully/Master?

3. Take away & now who?

Always learn both positions.


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk


For What?

Dialogue

Control

No responsibility


PASSIVEMASTER


Goals

1. Durably stay in Friend/Friend.

2. Recognize Master/Slave behaviors.

3. Dialogically invite people to join you. Gently & firmly insist.

Easiest

Harder

Difficult.Very, very

difficult.


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution



FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk


For What?

Dialogue

Control

No responsibility


PASSIVEMASTER


Symptoms:


2. Arguing,

3. Blame, Guilt,


5. MasterTalk


MASTER

SLAVE

Familiar

Tone of Efficiency

Truth System


B&W

Unstable

PunishmentSystem

Push down

Push out

American Revolution

“Allergic reaction to being slave.”Democracy

One person – one vote

FRIEND FRIEND




MasterTalk

All people are responsible, 24/7For What?

Dialogue

Control

No responsibility


PASSIVEMASTER


Symptoms:


2. Arguing,

3. Blame, Guilt,


5. MasterTalk

Power and Powerlessness in Couples, Part One


MASTER

SLAVE

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTERMASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

MASTER

SLAVE

FRIEND FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

FRIENDFRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE

POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating

Normal

DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating

Super-normal


Cautionary Note• Today we will discuss many specific indicators and interactions of Power

and Powerlessness. This may give you significantly increased insight into your own behavior habits and into those of others.

• Please remember– People we see in our offices are what I call “Normal,” with a desire to do much

better. This gives us a contract to work with/for them. Be helpful.

– Most people around us (friends, family, associates, etc) I usually see as “Normal.” Though they may display many of the indicators we talk of today, I don’t believe we have a contract to work with them. Consider remaining quiet.

– People who are moving toward, close to, or in “Conscious Marriage,” will display more and more of the indicators of being Dialogical. Enjoy being with them.

• I have found this material to be very empowering. I have also found it to trigger explosive reactions in others.


MASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE

POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating

Super-normal

Immature, dysfunctional relating

Normal

IntegratingDis-Integrating


MASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE


Super-normal


Normal

Level1-up

Level1-down

PeerLevel


MASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE


Super-normal


Normal

Temporary

Positions

•Temporary organization related to a specific situation.•“A hierarchy is a compromise between a group’s need to support diversity, and its need to make decisions.”•Examples: business, military, cars, boats, airplanes

Reasons

1. Functional, skilled leaders

2. Emergency

3. Property

consensual

consensual


MASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE


Super-normal


Normal


MASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE

POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relatingImmature, dysfunctional relating

Valley of the Masters


MASTER

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE




MASTERPASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE




MASTEREntitlement

Wants what he/she wants. Uses threat/temper to get it.

Very poor empathy skills.

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE



Do this! Think this!Or else!


MASTEREntitlement

Wants what he/she/wants. Uses threat to get it.


PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVEAn obedient servant / caretaker

Conflict avoidantIntuits others “getting upset.”Very poor self-nurturing skills.

Very dependent on others.



Do this! Think this!Or else.

What should I do?What should I think?

I’ll be good!

What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?


MASTEREntitlement

Wants what he/she wants. Uses threat to get it.


PASSIVE MASTEREntitlement

Wants what he/she wantsDisplays “distress” to get it

Dependent on others

SLAVEA caretaker / obedient servant

Intuits other people getting upset.Conflict avoidant

Very poor self-nurturing skills.Very dependent on others





I’ll be good!


I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)


MASTERPASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE



MasterTalk•“You are wrong…”•“This is a fact…”•“The truth is…”•“What we are really talking about is…”•“That is not what we are talking about…”•“I know what you are thinking…”•“What is going on is…”•“You are cruel…”•“We all know…”

Control what is said•“Don’t say that…”•“You’d better learn to control what you are saying…”•“I don’t think I should tell you…”•“I don’t want to say…”•“If you don’t know how to say it nicely, say nothing…”•“Hold your tongue, young man!”•“Children are to be seen and not heard.”


MASTERPASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE



Take care of me“I need this.” followed by waiting.“I have this problem.” followed by waiting. “That hurt me.” followed by waiting. “You’re mean.” followed by waiting. “That is a hurtful joke.” followed by waiting. “I can’t stand it.” followed by waiting.“You are giving me a headache.” followed by waiting. “That scares me.” followed by waiting.

Control what is said•“Don’t say that…”•“I can’t listen to that.”•“You’d better learn to control what you are saying…”•“I don’t want to hear any more.”•“If you don’t know how to say it nicely, say nothing…”


MASTERPASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE


Valley of the MastersAvoiding Responsibility

“I don’t know.”“I am lost.”“I am helpless.”“Why do I do that?”“I don’t know what to do.”“I have nothing to say.” Silence

Fill me. I am empty.“What is the right way to do that?”“What should I do?”“Tell me what to do.”“What is correct?”“Did I really do that?”“Take care of me?”“Am I right?”“What are we going to do?”“Do I make any sense?”“You tell me!”

I am responsible for you“I don’t want to upset her.”“I can’t say that. It would hurt him.”“What did I do wrong?”“If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything.”“I want everyone to like me.”“I hate conflict.”“Please, don’t cry.”“Don’t say that!”“I won’t do it again. I promise!”“I’m sorry, I hurt you.”The repeated use of “OK” at the end saying something. Almost all instances of political correctness are examples of a Slave to Passive-Master communication.


MASTERPASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE





I’ll be good!



What is in it for the slave?


MASTERPASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE





I’ll be good!



What is in it for the slave?




SLAVE


I’ll be good!





SLAVE


I’ll be good!


Created in early childhood

• Submitting, normally a temporary survival tactic, in this situation has morphed into a semi-permanent posture. • “Stockholm-syndrome” and “Learned helplessness”• “I will survive if I conform, submit, don’t upset anyone, make their lives better, and keep them happy.”• Codependency




SLAVE


I’ll be good!


Created in early childhood

• Submitting, normally a temporary survival tactic, in this situation has morphed into a semi-permanent posture. •Reptilian Brain

Clinger Version: seeks connection, with more or less panic, and when attachment is “achieved” begins to submit in order to be comfortable, survive.

Avoider form: is passive about connection. When alone, this person functions peacefully with no panic. When another appears, they immediately begin to submit as a way to be comfortable, survive.


MASTEREntitlement





Dependent on others








I’ll be good!



Early Childhood

“Threat / temper works. It gets me

what I want.”

Lesson is taught by parents who are

Slaves.

Early Childhood“People always take care of my needs. I have only to ask or

complain.”

These have made it into adulthood w/o

learning to earn what they get.

Early childhood“I will survive if I conform, submit,

don’t upset anyone, make their lives better, and keep

them happy.”

“Passive SlavesMake Bullies.”

“Passive SlavesMake Passive Masters.”

Masters and Passive Masters

make Slaves


MASTEREntitlement

Wants what he/she ants. Uses threat to get it.




Dependent on others








I’ll be good!



“Adult Passive Slaves

Encourage Adult Bullies.”

“Adult Passive Slaves

EncourageAdult

Passive Masters.”

Adult Masters

and Passive Masters Encourage Slaves

It takes teamwork.“Dysfunctional

Dialogue”


MASTEREntitlement

Wants what he/she/wants. Uses threat to get it.




Dependent on others








I’ll be good!



Break up the blindness. Develop their empathy skills.

End the temper and threats. Never permit

bullying. (Use Boundary Skills and

TimeOuts.)

•Be not a caretaker, yourself. •Turn the pause into an invitation

for their solution. •They must learn to earn what

they get. •Dialogue about their choices, but leave the decision up to

them.

Cut them off from “authorities” and “needy” people.

Guide them to learning how they act, how they got that way, sharing their story with

others.Guide them into awareness of

self and self-responsibility.

Easiest

A Bit Harder

Most rewarding. “Like giving birth to a self.”


MASTEREntitlement





Dependent on others







MASTER

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE




MASTER

FRIEND

LEADER

FOLLOWER

FRIEND

PASSIVEMASTER

SLAVE

POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relatingImmature, dysfunctional relating


Let’s keep moving to here.


References• My Website:

http://al.turtlecounseling.com– Then search my topics on skills of

Autonomy.

• Or Google or MSN Search Phrases:– Al turtle master/slave

– Al turtle power passivity

– Al turtle power foundations

– Al turtle boundaries

– Al turtle who is to blame

– Al turtle mastertalk

• Download and use my material, no charges.

http://al.turtlecounseling.com/

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Power and Passivity in Relationships