Reality Check Radio Interview With Brian Reilly 3-11-14

8/12/2019 Reality Check Radio Interview With Brian Reilly 3-11-14

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Unofficial Transcript of RC Radio Interview with Brian Reilly 3/11/2014

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Reality Check Radio March 11, 2014 Interview with Brian Reilly,

formerly of the Maricopa County Cold Case Posse investigating Barack

Obama's birth certificate.

Starting at 1:11:38 in the download available here:

http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4839&start=2550#p594487

RC: Good evening, Mr. Reilly. This is RC.

Reilly: Hey. How are you doing RC?

RC: Well good. Quite a surprise. I didn't think we'd hear from you this evening.

Reilly: I was—I was—I was out to dinner for the family—with the family. And I heard—I heard a

few comments with Doctor C and basically I'd like to address just a couple of the comments

that you folks were talking about.

RC: Sure.

Reilly: One, one of the things was liability. OK? And you wouldn't think that the Cold Case

Posse would be doing anything dangerous or anything like that that could end up resulting in

some kind of liability. But you have to understand, um, there were things that I was being

told to do that I was not authorized to do. For example, the patrol car that I was given. I

didn't have a county license to drive the car. From a liability standpoint, if I would havegotten into an accident with that car without a county license, I would have been hung out to

dry. OK? Um, that was one of the liability things. I was also told to carry a gun when I was not

authorized to carry a gun. So, you can see from that standpoint why I was a little bit

concerned about liability.

RC: Mr. Reilly, who...well, first of all, what do you mean when you're talking about a county

license? Are you talking about a county license plate or some sort of driver's license?

Reilly: I was supposed to have a county driver's license, and that, they had processed the

paperwork with it but in the meantime, I was given a car and I was given a gas key to use the

car and I went out and got my own private insurance to insure the car because I wasconcerned about risk management, not covering me if I was involved in an accident. So, that's

where I was concerned about liability.

RC: OK. And who, who told you to carry a gun?

Reilly: Mike. Mike Zullo.

RC: Mike Zullo did. Did he explain why?







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Reilly: Well, because there seemed to be a lot of concern about our safety at the time. I was

told to carry a gun, he basically told me, 'don't carry a gun unless, do not carry a gun on the

19th floor of the Wells Fargo building, but cover it, carry it anyplace else.' OK? The thing, the

problem with that is I wasn't supposed to be carrying a gun in the car that I was driving. I

didn't have a county driver's license to drive the car that I was driving, and, so from that

standpoint, if anything would have happened while I was on county time, I would have beenhung out to dry.

1:14:27

RC: OK. And that's, that's understandable. What about my question, you know I read, by the

way I really appreciate you coming forward and writing the article at Dr. Conspiracy's blog. I

found it quite interesting and I applaud you for doing that. But—

Reilly: I appreciate you saying that, but if I was trying to improve my image, it's probably not

something that I would want to readily do because it's totally contrary to what's been going on

for the last two years regarding this investigation. I did start the investigation. I asked for the

investigation. I changed my mind significantly after I saw the verification of birth that I

requested Secretary of State Bennett to look into and he did. Much to his credit, he kept his

word and said that he was going to get verification of birth before he put Mr. Obama on the

ballot. He did that. He got the verification. He followed through. And he put Mr. Obama on

the ballot, President Obama on the ballot. I was surprised that he followed through the way

he did.

And once, I was a Cold Case Posse member when the verification of birth came through.

Basically when I read that, the answer that I wanted regarding the birth certificate was right

there in front of my eyes. And, basically it was over. I had the proof that I wanted. I knew at

that point in time, according to what the state of Hawaii was saying, that all the informationon that copy of the birth certificate was accurate and that was good enough for me.

They continued, both Arpaio and Zullo, to say that they wanted to 'only clear the President'

and the fact of the matter was that, if they were sincere about that, they had the

opportunity to do it with the verification of birth.

RC: OK. I'll get back to that in just a minute. But I want to ask you some other questions that

people are posting in the chat room. First, did the Cold Case Posse have its own office, their

own offices there in the Wells Fargo building?

Reilly: OK. From what I was told was that Mike Zullo was assigned an office there, but

whenever I met with him it was over at his house.

RC: OK.

Reilly: I would meet with him at his house and then what we would do is we would meet,

we'd meet down at the Sheriff's office at the Wells Fargo building, the 19th floor and most of

our meetings happened in the conference room.




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RC: OK, so you—

Reilly: And most of those meetings happened with Jerome Corsi, Mike Zullo, myself, and

Sheriff Arpaio.

1:17:29

RC: The other question I have, there's been a lot of speculation about exactly who were

members of the Cold Case Posse. From the outside, really, obviously Jerome Corsi was

involved. You were involved. And Mike Zullo. Were there, are there any other members of the

Cold Case Posse? Or have there been?

Reilly: When, when this all started we were interviewed by five members of the Surprise—not

the Surprise Tea Party—but the Cold Case Posse. We were interviewed in Scottsdale at an

attorney's office. I believe it was for two and a half, three hours that we were interviewed.

And there were originally five members of the Posse. They all said that they would only—

except for Mike Zullo—they all said that they would only go by their first names. They didn't

want to give their last names because they were all volunteers and they were working inoutside jobs and they were concerned, they were basically concerned about repercussions

towards their jobs.

RC: So, how many do you think are still actively involved now?

Reilly: Between, between April 17th and June 30th, the only people that were actively doing

things for the most part was Jerome Corsi, Mike Zullo, myself, the Posse attorney, and two

other individuals and that's it. And the two other individuals I rarely saw. The attorney, I saw

once in a while, but for the most part it was the three of us that were doing most of the

work.

Dr. Ken: RC? Excuse me.

RC: Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Ken: I have a question, back to—ah, this is Dr. Ken, the co-host—in regards to the

verification letter that you talked about, which was issued on May 2012 and you said that it

was pretty much over at that point. You accepted that the verification ended all the doubt

for you. I was just curious about that because there's, there is other comments that you made

since that date. From October 25th, 2012 you were talking about, um, how you wrote a letter

to Governor Brewer talking about how she allowed the Secretary of State Bennett to accept

the Hawaii Department of Health verification letter that lacked a date of birth. And then youtalked again later on during that same month, you were talking about how there should be an

investigation of the actual evidence that supposedly the Cold Case Posse had gathered during

that time period and should turn over to an Arizona grand jury. It just seems at odds with

your statement that the verification letter ended everything for you. That you pretty much at

that point thought the investigation was over. That kind of is in contrast to what you had

said.






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And yeah, it was—I wanted to—I started this thing and I wanted the answers. I wanted to go

through every avenue that I could to make sure that my—the conclusions that I was coming to

were correct. I mean, I had, I had discussions with Zullo about that verification of birth and

he wouldn't go along with it. I said, 'It verifies everything. It verifies everything.' 'Oh it doesn't

have the date on it.' 'Well look at the sentence down below. It says it verifies everything on

the birth certificate.'

Dr. Ken: Um, do you—was there any talk about, with the race coding issue that came up

during the second press conference. I know the big thing that they presented in the

presentation, there was a race codes that they said were from 1961 that ended up being from

1968. I was wondering if you knew about the fallout that might have happened from Corsi

regarding that, or if you can talk about that.

1:24:53

Reilly: Well, let's put it this way. Um, after I resigned, I was invi—my wife and I were invitedto attend the July 17th press conference, and we both refused to do it. We didn't want to be

involved because, prior—prior to the press conference, I talked to Zullo. I said, 'What are you

going to be talk—what are’—Corsi was on the radio talking about all this great information and

all this stuff that's going to happen. I said, 'What are you going to be talking about?' And I

didn't get an answer from him that satisfied me. So, I'm starting to get concerned. Then I

watched—I didn't even watch the press conference. Afterwards, I watched the video and he

starts talking about the race codes. And it's like, you got to be kidding. Who did the research

on this? Because I didn't do the research.

I knew it was wrong. I wrote a letter afterwards to Sheriff Arpaio and I said, 'I don't know who

did the research, but this is wrong. They are showing 1968 race code charts, not 1961 race

code charts. Who did the research? I had nothing to do with this.' OK? And I wanted to make it

clear to Sheriff Arpaio that it needed to be reviewed. It was wrong.

And what's interesting is that all of the race code information and African information for

race of the father—none of that was included in any of the affidavits that I've seen with Mike

Zullo, including the Alabama Supreme Court. That race code information was the primary

information in the July 17th press conference that supposedly showed that the birth

certificate was fraudulent. And the fact of the matter was, they used bogus information. It

was incorrect. They used the wrong chart, the wrong year.

And then, to make matters worse, the next day he comes out on ABC news, and they were

talking about the race codes—ABC Phoenix—and they asked him if there's any chance he could

be possibly wrong about it and he said, 'No, there's no chance that I could be wrong.' 'Well,

what if you were?' 'Well, I'd apologize but I'm not wrong.' Well, he was wrong. He's wrong. He's

wrong. He never apologized for it. And, if it was so important, why isn't it in the affidavit to

the Alabama Supreme Court? It's not there. It's not there.




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1:27:24

RC: Mr. Reilly, one question I wanted to ask you. This is RC.

Reilly: Yeah RC.

RC: Yeah. Mike Zullo has indicated, I think he said on the Carl Gallups show that he's afrequent guest down in Florida, that he's spent thousands of hours on this and we're all

wondering, based on what evidence has been presented, the number of hours he's said he's

spent on this, indicate that it's a full-time job for him. Does he have another job? Or is this his

full-time occupation? And has he really spent that—did he really spend that many hours on it?

Reilly: RC, he would always say, he would always tell people he was working 24/7. 24/7 on

this thing. He also told people that we had full police powers to work on this. I never saw

anything in writing that would indicate that I had full police powers. Posse members, you

have to understand, they are not law enforcement. They are law enforcement support. They

can only operate if a deputy says, 'Do something.' That is the only thing that gives them

authority. As a matter of fact, if a Posse member pulls out his badge and shows that badge tosomebody when he's not authorized to do it, he can be prosecuted for impersonating a police

officer.

Mike Zullo is a volunteer. He is a Posse member. He is not law enforcement. So, he said he

was working 24/7. I know that I would get calls all day and all night from him. I was on call

24/7. What I saw him doing was accumulating information that was coming in from various

sources. That's what I saw him doing. And many of the times that we got together, he was

talking with various radio talk show hosts, getting the word out. Talking about what he was

talking—talking about what he was trying to accomplish. So, the long answer, I don't know

how he supports his family. I don't know if he's got a job on the side. I don't know what he

does. But he's been doing this every day for quite some time. I don't know what he does.

1:29:53

Dr. Ken: RC, I have a quick question. Brian mentioned that he had travelled to eight states

during, ah, during the investigation. I was just curious—we were just curious which states you

travelled to and what the exact reasoning was behind it.

Reilly: OK. I'm not going to say the states other than we did go to Washington, OK. We did go

to Washington to follow up on some leads. According to emails that I've got, and

correspondence, that trip was not approved or authorized by the Sheriff's office, but we were

up there, and, well, I don't know, I really don't want to say much more about it than that. Wedid not have a deputy with us. It's policy—it's MCSO policy—that any time a Posse member

goes out of state they have to be accompanied by a deputy because a deputy is a fully sworn

law enforcement officer that can carry a firearm. Both of the times that I went out of state

with Michael Zullo, we had no deputy with us.

[Unintelligible crosstalk]




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Reilly: That goes back to the liability situation. Go ahead. I interrupted you. I'm sorry.

1:31:16

Dr. Ken: If he showed his badge during any of those times while you guys were out of state. I

assume you guys would have to coordinate with local PD and stuff like that. There's a sort of a

liability issue.

Reilly: In the, in the, in the unauthorized trip that we took—or the unapproved, the

unsanctioned trip, whatever you want to call it—we never, we never, I was a private citizen

when I went up to Washington state with him. I went with him. I was still licensed to carry a

firearm. He could not carry a firearm up there, so I told him I'd back him up. So I went up

with him.

RC: Mr. Reilly, do you still have contact with Mike Zullo or members of the—other members of

the Posse?

Reilly: No sir.

RC: So you're pretty well cut off from the policy—from the Posse at this point.

Reilly: Once June 30th came, and after I saw the July 17th press conference, and the—what I

believe was a total misrepresentation of facts to the public, with no correction, no apology to

the public. That was it. I was done. That was, I tell you, the July 17th press conference,

added to the verification of birth, it was like, 'Why is this continuing? Why?'

RC: Mr. Reilly, are you aware of some of the work that I've been involved in—I'll take a—I have

a very small part—but the work showing that the PDF posted at the White House was probably

copied and scanned on a Xerox Work Centre machine. That experiments that I've participated

in show that most of the anomalies that people like Doug Vogt, Mara Zebest, Garrett Papit

and others have claimed are evidence of forgery can be fairly easily duplicated with a

commercial machine made by Xerox?

1:33:27

Reilly: RC, I have read numerous pages of the documentation on that. I believe it's absolutely,

totally correct in what you're saying. I just want to give you an example that caused me to

think about this. When I was with the Posse, I had to do lots of memos. I did a lot of pd —I'd do

memos on MCSO letterheads and I would convert them to PDF forms. And what was really

fascinating was, here I was, converting things to PDF, and I started looking at the printed out

PDF copies, comparing them to the originals. And guess what? They didn't match. The letters

didn't match. The fonts didn't match. The slant of the letters didn't match. And suddenly, I'm

saying, when you convert something into a PDF format, it's not the same thing as putting a

piece of paper down on an old Xerox copier and getting almost an exact reproduction. OK.

So when I was seeing the anomalies—what I call—I'm not a computer expert. I know very little

about computers except how to run them, when I saw the anomalies appearing on MCSO




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letters that I was preparing in PDF form, um, I started to come to many, many doubts about

what I was being told. I did not do the research regarding the computer work-ups. I believe

Mara Zebest was involved. Doug Vogt was involved. These people were coming up with

information and providing it to Mike Zullo. In fact, much of the research was provided by

other people. OK. But to answer your question again. I saw your documentation. I think that —

I think, again speaking as a non-computer expert in any way, shape, or form—what youpresented was absolutely convincing to me. What I saw with my own experiments, which were

actually not experiments, it was producing MCSO PDFs, nothing looking the same. I thought it

was absolutely believable and plausible that when the original birth certificate, the copy, the

certified copy of the birth cert—the original birth certificate was copied on a Xerox machine,

I thought it very readily could have produced the anomalies. That's my opinion.

1:36:02

RC: Yeah, I had one other—thank you very much, by the way, I find it very convincing too.

The first time I actually scanned a printout of the long-form birth certificate, and scanned it

on a Xerox and opened it up in Illustrator, as I've told people, my jaw dropped because rightthere were all the same anomalies that people were claiming were proof of forgery.

Reilly: It was fascinating. It was absolutely fascinating, the work that you guys did together.

It really was.

RC: Well, thank you. It was blogger nbc and actually, it was a German fellow who's not an

Obama fan, started that. And you know, John Woodman. I give credit—let me go back and

talk about John Woodman. Mike Zullo actually mentioned John Woodman at the first press

conference. Have you read John Woodman's book? Or do you know who he is?

Reilly: I know who he is. I heard Mike Zullo talk about him. He did not have positive things to

say about Mr. Woodman. I'll just leave it at that.

RC: Were you aware that John Woodman offered his services to the Cold Case Posse? Because

he thought you were really going down a blind alley when he heard it was started. He had put

hours and hours of research into this. He's not an Obama fan. John convinced himself, though,

that all these so-called analyses were wrong and he offered, in a very genuine way, he

offered his services to the Cold Case Posse. Were you aware of that?

Reilly: Yes sir.

RC: What there any discussion about talking to John Woodman? Why didn't you talk to John?

Reilly: I didn't talk to him. I got involved as a Posse member after all the discussion happened

with Mr. Woodman. I asked, 'What about Mr. Woodman?' You have to, you have to understand

something. My idea of an investigation would be an investigation trying to look at all sides of

the equation and trying to come up with an answer, the most accurate answer you can come—

come up with by looking at both sides. And I didn't see both sides being looked at. The

information that I saw that was being accumulated, was being accumulated from all birther

sources, as far as I was concerned. And that, that was disturbing to me.




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1:38:45

RC: Let me ask a question. Mike Zullo and Joe Arpaio himself have said that they started this

investigation with the intention to clear President Obama. I don't know what he had to be

cleared from, but do you believe that was an honest statement on their parts?

Reilly: No, I don't. No I don't because if they were actually trying to clear the President, afterthat verification of birth came out and after Secretary of State Ken Bennett said, 'He's going

to be put on the ballot because we have the verification of birth. He was born in Hawaii. He's

a US citizen.' In my opinion, that was the end of the story. That was it. And they had every

opportunity to say, 'We've cleared the President.' When I first brought this document—when I

first brought this request to Arpaio, I said, 'People have written to their Congress people.

People have gone to Congress trying to get something done on this. Congress won't listen. Is

there something you can do using Arizona revised statutes to look into this?' And I pointed it

out—again, not being the expert—computer expert—I had pointed out anomalies that I saw on

the PDF that I downloaded.

They took it up. They decided to go with it. Dr. Corsi was at the original meeting—and by the

way, all the original meetings that I had with Sheriff Arpaio, Mike Zullo was nowhere to be

seen, OK, so he has no firsthand knowledge about any of the discussion that happened at the

April 18th meeting, 2011—I'm sorry, the August 18th meeting or the August 22nd meeting that

I had with Sheriff Arpaio. He has no direct knowledge, no personal knowledge of any of that.

But bottom line, I think they—I think this turned into something that—my own personal

opinion—is that it turned out to be a money-making, publicity-making concern. That's my

personal opinion.

1:41:01

RC: Were you—well, I'll tell you what. Would you be willing to take a couple quick phone

calls? I'll keep the questions short if you can stay around a few more minutes.

Reilly: You know I really don’t have much more time. But, I mean, if you have—I'll take

questions from you, but I’d like to wrap it up here pretty quick if we could.

RC: OK. Yeah, well. All right. I've got a couple of callers whom I know would like to ask

questions but I'll stick with that.

Reilly: I heard Doctor C was thinking about calling back.

RC: Yeah. He hasn't called back in. This is another gentleman named Thomas Brown. Let meget his question quickly and if you chose not to answer it, that's fine. Good evening Thomas.

Do you have a question for Brian Reilly?

Thomas Brown: Hey there. Well, it isn't really so much a question as a word of heartfelt

congratulations. I have a real serious hobby in figuring out how to solve the partisan rancor

that's tearing apart this country and you are an example of the kind of people that are—that

we need, we need to encourage. We are on different sides of the aisle, but we need to




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encourage the kind of person—there's nothing wrong with saying, 'You know I think I see

something wrong with this document.' Or 'You know, I think the IRS may have been unfair to

conservative groups.' There's nothing wrong with thinking that. It's the people that will think

something like that, or something that is wrong with the President, and, in spite of all the

evidence, their minds will not change. They will not see reality. And that is a problem. It

would be a problem for a liberal. It would be a problem for a conservative. The conservativesseem to have sort of a monopoly on it right now. There's a lot of crazies out there.

But you are, from everything I've heard tonight, an intelligent and fair-minded man. And even

if we looked at the same set of facts and drew completely different conclusions, it would still

be worthwhile because you’re the kind of person that at least would listen to facts and not

just block them all out. And I want to just say I personally congratulate you.

1:43:32

Reilly: And your name is Mr. Brown.

Brown: Yeah

Reilly: Mr. Brown, I want to tell you, I really, really appreciate your remarks. I'm really

concerned about our country right now. I'm very concerned about our country. We seem to be

going in two different directions. Everybody seems to have a different idea of what the truth

is and what the truth isn't. Well, when I was growing up, you looked at facts and you made an

educated decision about the facts and you went forward. This country, this country cannot

survive without looking at facts and without—and remaining divided the way that we are right

now. I'm absolutely heartbroken about what—people are not going to like me for saying this.

I'm heartbroken at what I see happening at Tea Parties. I'm heartbroken at what I see—the

almost paranoia that I've seen among certain Tea Party groups.

It's very, very frustrating for me to watch because they all have access to the same

information that I'm looking at, for the most part. I mean, the surprise Tea Party, for

example, Mike Zullo keeps them apprised of everything, yet they apparently don't see the

things the way that I do. And I just appreciate your comments because I really believe, like I

said earlier, it took me awhile to find the truth for myself and President Obama is President.

He was born in Hawaii. His birth certificate has been verified. The information on his birth

certificate PDF has been verified by the State of Hawaii. What else can you do?

For example, the Cold Case Posse—when they interviewed us for three hours—I told them, I

told them, I said, 'When I came to Arizona, I had to provide a birth certificate, I had to

provide a birth certificate to get an Arizona driver's license.' And they all looked at me and

they said, 'Well, that's not true.' Now these are supposedly intelligent investigators that are

looking at facts and information and they jumped to the conclusion that what I said was not

true. Well, the fact of the matter is, if you're from New Mexico or if you're from Washington

State, and I think a couple of other states, coming into Arizona, you have to provide a birth

certificate. So, nobody will listen to each other. Nobody communicates. Nobody's willing to

look at facts. They just come up—




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Brown: Well, to me, to me I think I try to draw a bright line between the people trying to

make sense of things. We actually have a great deal of compassion for Tea Partiers that have

been fed all of this misinformation and have drawn their conclusions from that.

Reilly: I agree.

Brown: I don't really blame them as much as the people spreading it. This is my favoriteexample. Kaplowski [phonetic] Remember there was a guy name Kaplowski that shot a couple

of cops on his porch because he was told that there, there were—that Obama's gun

confiscation squads were going to be roaming the land and he killed them. One of them had

two small children. I want to know, not just, yeah, he's an asshole, but who told him that?

Reilly: Exactly.

1:47:32

Brown: Is it worth the political gain to say things like that to the American public?

Reilly: It's destructive to America. It's destructive towards society. And, you know, who was

it? George Washington? He was talking about having two political parties or two political

philosophies and it could possibly destroy America. Well, what I see right now is America

being destroyed because of these wild conspiracy theories that are happening throughout the

land and they are out of control. They are out of control. And, one story breeds another

story. One story, another story breeds another one and they're elevated to the point where

everyone's crazy.

I mean, I got to tell you, I have to tell you, I am so concerned about what's happening to

America right now. It took me a long time. It took me a long time to write this letter because

I really wanted, I had an answer. I had my answer. I know the truth because of the work thatyou folks did. The work that Dr. Conspiracy did with the race codes. My examples with the

MCSO PDFs that I created. I thought, I have my answers but somebody continues to want to

fuel the fire for their own purposes, whether it's money. Whether it's for some kind of fame.

Whether it's to sow discontent, sow sedition. I heard people sowing theories that would push

people to sedition. I mean, this is crazy. This is crazy stuff.

Brown: The right's favorite term is vilification. They are thrive—they absolutely...you've been

vilified on the right-wing web sites. I've been vilified. I'm a business owner and family man. I

vote Democratic, but I, for some reason nowadays, I'm evil. I'm killing this country and people

tell these—the mouthpieces tell these people that I am an enemy of America every goddamn

day, and it is really, really wrong.

Reilly: Well, hopeful—my hope is, my hope is that this letter and maybe the second letter

that I'm going to write hopefully puts an end to the political theater that's going on during this

quote-unquote investigation. Well, I would like to see some accounting for all the funds that

have been donated to the Cold Case Posse. I, originally, I was one of the first seven people

that contributed to the Cold Case Posse, when the Sheriff told me that he was going to turn

everything over to the volunteer Cold Case Posse so they wouldn't use tax dollars.






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Reilly: As far as the investigation?

Dick: When you first heard the birth certificate controversy, why did you just go straight in

and go to the Sheriff? Why didn't you start looking yourself and twig and say, 'Well, this is so

unusual, why is it—why is he ineligible? It smacks of a conspiracy theory to me as soon as it's

said. You'd start to want verification.

Reilly: Dick, there's a lot to cover here, but basically, from 2008, the controversy was swirling

around President Obama, Mr. Obama.

Dick: Well that—that's debatable, go on, yes, go on. I refute that.

Reilly: There was lots and lots of controversy, to make a long story short, finally Jerome

Corsi's book came out and I read it. And I thought, 'You know, there's got to be a way to come

up with a simple answer here.' I communicated with Congresspeople and Senators and they

just kind of brushed me aside, like I was asking a question I shouldn't be asking, and I thought

this was really, really odd. There is a controversy here. Why can't it be settled on a national

level? It wasn't being settled on a national level. I legitimately wanted to know the answers,because, again, I had followed it from 2008. One side saying one thing. The other side saying

another and I’m saying, 'What’s the truth here?'

Finally, I said, ‘Well wait a minute, we have laws of the State of Arizona, within the Arizona

Revised Statutes.’ When I approached the Sheriff, it had nothing to do—my original plan had

nothing to do with eligibility. Zero. It was all about the Arizona Revised Statutes because I

looked at a document that I misunderstood and I thought the anomalies were telling me that

it was a possible forgery. I went to Arpaio thinking, 'OK. With all the investigative skills that

the third largest sheriff's department must have, they should be able to tell me whether this

document is authentic or not authentic. Does it violate the Arizona Revised Statutes regarding

fraud or forgery in any way, shape, or form?' And, that's how it all started. I simply wanted

answers.

1:57:08

Brown: Can I interject here?

Reilly: Yes sir.

Brown: I think why Dick brings it up is that John Woodman is a computer image expert. He's as

conservative as the day is long, but he's also an honest man and not a liar. And he actually

wrote a book. He did thousands of hours of worth of examinations of each of the anomaliesand the reason Dick brings it up is that John Woodman wrote to the Cold Case Posse and

offered to send them a copy of his work. And they ignored him.

Reilly: Exactly.

Dick: Can I interrupt? I'm not suggesting that Mr. Reilly is lying in any way at all, Thomas, if—

Brown: I'm not either.




14

Dick: I believe he's, I believe he's—I believe he's sincere, but I believe—and I don't mean to

insult you, Mr. Reilly—but I believe he was misguided in the first place. That's what I’m

saying.

Brown: [Unintelligible] the Cold Case Posse turned down John Woodman. Had you heard that,

Mr. Reilly?

Dick: Yeah.

1:58:07

Reilly: Once I got in, I asked, 'What about this Mr. Woodman individual? Because I had heard

about the book that he had written, and I had—in fact, I even had read some of the chapters.

I said, 'What about Mr. Woodman?' 'Well, we've already reviewed that' and they decided not go

that way. Well, in my opinion, the reason that they didn't go that way, it was contrary to the

narrative and the direction they wanted to achieve. This, in my opinion, was not an unbiased

investigation.

One of the reasons I went into the Cold Case Posse was simply because this was my idea. I was

trying to protect my idea. I was trying to make sure that it hopefully was an unbiased idea

and that things would be done the proper way. Once I got in and I saw what was going on, I

was disturbed. I was troubled.

RC: Hey, I have to jump in here because we’re down to about 30 seconds. Brian, I would love

to have you back if you could.

Dr. Ken: I just...I have one little question, RC.

RC: Wait a minute. Let me wrap it up because we are not going to continue to stream any

longer. We can continue to chat. It will be archived. So I'd like to wrap it up quickly here. But

thank you for calling. And we're not going to be live anymore but it will be recorded. Brian, as

I said, I'd love to have you back. Thank you much for calling. We'll wrap it up quickly here. Go

ahead, Dr. Ken.

Dr. Ken: I just have one little question. Before the verification, before the long form even

came out, there was the short form. There were the statements by Dr. Fukino but there was

also, if you're aware, the was also the FAQ site that the Hawaii Department of Health had set

up regarding the birth certificate, where they pretty much already verified the short form

matched what was—that talked about the actually birth document that was issued to Obama

before that, the short form, which was the legal standard. Were you aware of that site at anypoint before the long form came out? Did you only doubt after the long form came out?

2:00:26

Reilly: I only started doubting the document after I saw, I actually downloaded the long form

document from the White House website, and I—the one zero six four one, the last digits in

the file number. I saw them, I thought it looked peculiar, and then the smiley face in the




15

Alvin G. Onaka, I thought that was kind of different, and then I saw some issues with the fonts

and the spacing and everything else. Well, I've since learned, gee, when you do a PDF, the

PDFs that I've done, don't come out the same way as the original document, OK, so that was

convincing to me.

Dr. Ken: Yeah, I figured that out the moment I scanned my own birth certificate. I did the

same—I moved it in a PDF and then tried to open it in Illustrator. There were artifacts on

there that didn't exist in the original paper that was kind of awkward. But, what I was getting

at, there was that FAQ site that was up before the long form even came out, where Hawaii

had already talked about the birth certificate. They had the birth index data that was already

on there. They had the information about the short form which is the official birth certificate

standard for Hawaii, and I was just curious if you were aware of that before the even long

form was out, because that was already a verification that the document was legit.

2:01:52

Reilly: The problem is, I was a member of the Tea Party at the time. I was involved in the Tea

Parties. I was involved with these different groups. I was reading Dr. Corsi's information on

WND, and basically, there was so much flak going on, and so much disturbance, that you had

this huge fire going on. Can somebody put the fire out and come up with one, conclusive

document?

No, I didn't pay much attention to the short—I didn't pay much attention to the original short

form, because the original short form that I saw had the file number that was blanked out,

and on the bottom it said if there was any corrections or changes it was void, so I just didn't

even pay attention to it, OK. I didn't pay attention.

RC: Yeah. Hey let—

Dr. Ken: The corrections have to do with the physical document, not the actual digital so it

wouldn't void it if, whatever. But, we've read about this for a long time, where we've seen

where, when people actually did research, actual disputing information that debunked birther

claims actually came out. There was—it was original investigation where they found the birth

announcements which came out through actual research. When someone who was like a

doubter went around trying to look into the INS records of Barack Obama Senior, there was

data that directly referenced the birth of a Barack Obama Junior, in August 4th, 1961, in

Hawaii, from 1961. And the more they, the more they got freedom of information requests,

and the more they started digging, the more this information started coming out even more

that confirmed the actual story.

So it's like, at this point I wonder why—it's just like, it's kind of weird that the—Zullo didn't

even bother doing any of that. It's like—but we knew the answer already. It was a one-sided

investigation from the beginning. They only looked for stuff that confirmed the bias, as

opposed to doing actually an unbiased investigation where they looked at all the data. The

first thing should have been, they should have contacted Hawaii. They didn't do that until like

the fifth step in the process.




16

02:04:00

Reilly: Exactly, and basically it's my opinion, from what I've seen and what I've observed, it's—

the whole thing is agenda driven. You can - for example, the letter that I wrote up, you won't

see that letter anywhere on Birther Report, OK. I wrote to Dr Conspiracy because I couldn't

get anything, for the most part, printed there.

Dr. Ken: It's not—it's still not up. They won't even acknowledge your presence.

Reilly: Well the bottom line is, if it is contrary to the narrative, if it's contrary to whatever

their agenda is—and I don't believe their agenda is the truth—they're going to lambast it.

They're going to malign it. They're going to attack it, because it doesn't fit the narrative. And

it also, for all these people that are getting money off of this deal, you know, it turns off the

spigots to the money.

Dr. Ken: Yep, well to paraphrase Mike Zullo, the truth is of no concern.

Reilly: Exactly. Yes, well, how about this? Are we still on the air by the way?

RC: Well, it's being—we're not streaming live but it's being recorded and it'll be part of the

archive podcast version of the show. So yes we're still on the air. It's still on the record.

Reilly: OK, well, the bottom line is, you know, I wanted to write this letter so that, number

one you guys—you guys have been lambasted, OK? You have been attacked. You've been

maligned. You've been threatened. And the fact of the matter is, I know exactly the feeling

that you're going through. Whenever you try to stand up for the truth, you get attacked. And I

want—I'm the only one that could tell this story. I'm the one that created it. I'm the one that

was in the Cold Case Posse. I'm the one that saw what was going on. And quite frankly, I

object. I totally object to what's going on, because this was my baby. And now I see it beingraked over the coals, and I see people making money, and making all these false claims.

I listen to Gallups talk about the decades and decades of law enforcement experience that

Mike Zullo has. He's only had five years worth of police work, period. Not 30 years, not

decades, like, not 80 years combined between Arpaio and Zullo like Gallups says. And this

guy's supposed to be a pastor. What in the world is he doing? Doesn't he check his facts, or is

he just, does he just believe everything that Zullo tells him?

2:06:49

Dr. Ken: Well the turn off for you right there should have been the point where Gallups has in

the past called Obama an Anti-Christ. I think that pretty much turns everyone off.

Reilly: What kind of pastor does that? Seriously, what kind of pastor? I'm a believer. I'm a

Christian, and I have yet to hear any of my pastors call Mr. Obama the Anti-Christ, OK.

Dr. Ken: Were you aware, were you aware recently—I know if you've been listening to

Gallups, he mentioned recently that Mike Zullo claims him as his pastor, which seems kind of

weird. Every day they have confessions.






18

On our trip up to Washington State, he talked about how he wanted to write a book. Well, he

and Corsi did write a book. He talked about how he wanted to do a film about the whole

thing. That hasn't, well, he's done videos, but he doesn't have a feature length film yet.

I was contacted by a fellow in Colorado during the investigation. He'd heard one of my

interviews on one of the Christian stations up in Colorado. And he said, 'Hey, I want to do a

film documentary. I want to come down to Arizona and do it', and I said, 'I didn't do this to

get in film. I didn't do this to make money. And no, I really am not interested, thank you very

much.' Because I thought at that time, my job was to make sure that this thing was done in an

unbiased, fair way, just like they said. They said it would be done—you guys tell me—they

said this would be done with the utmost diligence. When they kept Mr. Woodman out of the

investigation, was that the utmost diligence?

RC: Of course it wasn't.

2:11:30

Reilly: When they produced the book to make a buck, with investigative materials thatsupposedly were going to lead to some kind of prosecution, or clearing the President, all it

did was come down to, apparently, money. It's very frustrating to me. Very, very frustrating

to me. And I know how frustrated you guys are.

RC: Well, we're—I don't think that frustrated is the right word. I think we're angry, because I

think President Obama is a good man. I like him. I voted for him twice. And I think he's being

smeared, at this point, by this. I think this has degenerated. I think it was always a smear

campaign, myself.

I wanted to ask you, do you, do you have any remorse over this? That the fact that something

you started has turned into this? Essentially a smear campaign.

Reilly: You know what? I've learned a lot through this, OK. I've learned a lot about people

within politics down here in Arizona. I've learned more about what these posses are all about.

Basically the posses are, if the sheriff wants to be associated with the posse, he's associated

with them. If he wants to disconnect from the posse, he does it. It's like a posse is a Twilight

Zone form of law enforcement support. I still don't totally understand what they do, and how

they do it, and how they're connected, and where the accountability is.

I've learned—I don't feel remorse in learning what I've learned. What I do, what I feel, what I

feel bad about, is the way that other people have led this idea, in my opinion, astray. And I

stayed on with this thing as long as I could, until I saw that I had totally lost any kind ofcontrol whatsoever as far as it being unbiased and forthright and having an agenda to come

up with the truth. And that's where I washed my hands. I washed my hands of it because I

didn't like the direction it was going. So, to those people, that—to the people that have

donated funds to this organization, including us, I do feel really bad about that. I feel very,

very bad about that, because no one has accounted for those funds. No one.




19

And I, and even being on the inside of the Posse, I can't even tell you, I can't even tell you

how the records are kept—the financial records are kept. I will tell you one thing. Apparently

the records are so bad that, at one point my wife was hired by Mike Zullo to compile evidence

in notebooks, and she was paid two checks of $300 apiece, a total of $600. She never got a

1099. And I believe, the cutoff or the threshold is $600 or more they're supposed to be

sending out 1099s. We never got one.

We knew, we had a feeling that there was issues with the record keeping, from

communications that I had with other people there was issues with the record keeping, from

communications that I had with other people, and so when we got those checks we

photocopied them so that when we could do our 2012 tax return, we had a record that she

got some funds from the Cold Case Posse as a private citizen. Never had a 1099 though, so I

have no idea what they are doing as far as record keeping.

2:15:28

RC: Well neither does anyone else. Well, thank you and have a great evening. I do appreciate

you calling in. I hope to have you back some point down the road, and we look forward to

your second article. Now, you hones--you obviously believe there's no ‘universe shattering’

evidence coming. You said that in your article.

Reilly: There isn't. I cannot foresee anything and, it's – you read Dr. Conspiracy's website, it's

'any day now,' 'any day now,' any day now' and they're exactly right. Any day. That's why I put

in the letter to him. “Any day now” as long as people will believe this, and people won't come

to their senses and say, 'You've said this to us 10 times now. For two years. Why should we

believe you now?' It's all that I said (INTERRUPTION) It's like what I said in the letter. How

many times do they have to cry wolf before wake up? People that got an agenda never wake

up.

2:16:36

Dr. Ken: We refer to this as like a lemon law policy, where you keep going to the same car

dealership buying cars from the same car salesman who sells you lemons and then at what

point do you realize that this guy is not going to stop screwing you. He's just going to keep

selling you lemons. I'm like when do people realize that this guy is a crook and he's not telling

the truth?

RC: Hey, Brian, we'll let you go, thank you very much for your time and please feel free to

call back anytime. Maybe we can schedule a regular show and more people can call with their

questions.

Reilly: And like I say, I really appreciate what you folks have done, I appreciate you trying to

come up with the truth. The experiments that you did with the Xerox machine I thought was

fantastic and like I say, it went right along with what I was seeing on a small scale with

creating my own PDFs with MCSO documents. And, yeah I believe you took the right--

RC: Yeah, by the way--




20

Dr. K: I hope in his article number two there are more stories like the Globe article that he

mentioned. I got a really good laugh out of that. Someone's been arrested!

Reilly: By the way, he was concerned about being monitored by the cell phones. He was. And

he believed-- listen, he believed that MI6 was going to be protecting us as Cold Case Posse--

him as a Cold Case Posse member, me as a future Cold Case Posse member. And Lord

Monckton was going to arrange all this. And he had connections. More connections.

Connections all the way up to the Queen.

2:18:37

Dr. Ken: I just have one last question. In your experience, do you believe that he is a true

believer or an actual scam artist at this point?

Reilly: Mr., Mr. Zullo?

Dr. Ken: Mr. Zullo. Do you think he's a true believer that he really believes this stuff that he's

been told from like Monckton and all the rest, he really believes this stuff? Or he actually isplaying it as an actual, that he's an actual true scammer? That's it's just a way of scamming

people?

Reilly: You know, that's a really tough question because I've seen situations where--the

Monckton thing. Nobody honest, I thought nobody could believe this story. But he was, he was

truly--look at the link that I put after the paragraph. It talks about how Monckton met with

Sheriff several days prior to us meeting--er going up to Washington State. He believed it. He

believed it to the point where, again, throw the phones into the glove box, close the glove

box, turn them off. And then he went out and got more cell phones later on because he was

concerned about being monitored. He believed it. The problem with the new cell phones--he

went out and got Cricket cell phones--and so many druggies were using the Cricket cellphones that we couldn’t communicate.

Dr. Ken: Burners, yeah, burners, as they call them. That's funny. It's...there comes a point

where the absurdity and the incredulity of what actually happened makes you wonder if it's

performance art because no one can be that crazy and then sometimes people exceed your

expectations.

Reilly: Well, I think Mr. Zullo does that. I know I’m taking your time but Mr. Zullo is a real

dilemma to me because there are a lot of emotional ups and downs from him and I never

knew what to expect from him. Several times, he said, when I was a Surprise Tea Party

member and he was doing this at our request, he said, 'You know, I don't have to do this.' It'slike, well, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. He kept on saying to me, 'You know, I don't

have to do this.' And I'm going, 'Oh, the Sheriff asked you to do it.'

And, oh, by the way, the Reed Hayes report that everybody wants to see. All of his work

product, because he's an independent standalone corporation, all the work product belongs to

him. He does not have to give that to the Sheriff. Right. The Sheriff, to my knowledge, has

never read the Reed Hayes report. I've heard him interviewed on the Gallups show and it had




21

this Reed Hayes report for months and the Sheriff was so disinterested, he never even read

the report, according to the what--the interview, what--on the Gallups show.

RC: As far--

Reilly: And then--

RC: I'm sorry, go ahead.

Reilly: Go ahead.

RC: As far as you know, was that report purchased with Cold Case Posse money?

2:21:47

Reilly: That was done after I left. I have no idea. I've never heard anybody doing an

investigation and putting a copyright on the documentation unless they're going to do

something with it. My best guesstimate is that he's going to come out with a second book.

RC: Well, we've all--yeah, we've all been speculating that. Yeah, it's very bizarre that he

would even men--he would mention that in his affidavit in Alabama and not include a copy.

We all thought was bizarre. But many things about Mr. Zullo are bizarre.

Dr. Ken: It could be any number of things. Maybe it doesn't even say what he says it says. You

have to keep in mind that he stated on air that he had called a-hundred-twenty-something

other experts beforehand that turned him down before he got Reed Hayes. He was fishing for

an expert that would say what he wanted.

RC: Actually, it was 212, Dr. Ken.

Dr. Ken: Oh. It was more than that?

RC: 212

Dr. Ken: Oh, that's even worse. I'm like, he was fishing for an expert. I'm like, he wanted

someone to tell him what he wanted to hear.

Reilly: Can you actually trust what he's saying?

Dr. Ken: Of course not.

Reilly: I have no verification how many people, I had no idea how many people hecommunicated with because there was a lot of stuff that he didn't tell me. There were a lot

of things that he didn't tell me. He was working with Corsi. He was talking with all these radio

Internet talk show hosts. He was--he had me doing stuff, he had me running around like a

chicken with my head cut off. I ended up in the hospital at least one time because of all the

nonsense. Yeah, I mean, it needs to end. Like I said in the letter, it needs to end. It's time to

end the lunacy. It's time to move forward. Accept President Obama as our President and move

on. Move on. This is a waste of time. There is no earth-shattering, universe-shattering




22

evidence. You've been watching Birther Report recirculate stuff from how many years ago in

the last couple weeks?

2:24:15

Dr. Ken: Like the Shrimpton interview that was from, like, 2008?

Reilly: Exactly.

Dr. Ken: It's in the news. It's breaking news.

Reilly: No. Unfortunately, or fortunately--whichever way you want to look at it--it's not new

news at all. You folks talked about the anonymous quote that was on BR. Well, they'll give

two or three sentences to an anonymous quoter, but the very guy that created the entire

project, they won't give the information because it's contrary to the narrative.

RC: All right, Brian. Thank you very much.

Reilly: RC, please communicate with me by email. More than happy to talk with you. I got acall from Arizona--I got an email from Arizona Politics tonight. I related some information to

them and hopefully they'll be able to get to the bottom of some things.

RC: Good, yeah, Mitch,

Dr. Ken: They sort of already did.

RC: Yeah, Mitch was on my show a few weeks ago. He's a good fellow. I'm glad he's reached

out to you.

Dr. Ken: Well, after, after Zullo went on air and said that they had two detectivesinvestigating, supposedly, the birth certificate and then another investigation with persons of

interest. Apparently, Mitch had contacted Lieutenant Brandon Jones who basically said,

'That's not true.'

Reilly: Um, I believe that. And, like I said, I interviewed, I interviewed all the persons of

interest. OK. I did. And it's not any of you guys. It's not you, RC. And that's--I can't say it. I

can’t say it. I know I did not interview you, all right?

2:26:09

RC: I know you didn't either.

Reilly: Yeah, exactly. So, there seems to be lots of persons of interest going around.

Dr. Ken: It's like the generic VIPs.

RC: Well, Zullo, after I called--I actually called the office there. I talked to Detective or

Sergeant Crosby. After I called the office and asked to know--I called Zullo and I just had a

simple question. I said, 'You've been saying on the radio I'm a person of interest. Well here I




23

am.' And of course he demanded to know my name. I said, 'You have no authority. You're not

a law enforcement officer.' Then he got all huffy and he said, 'Well, you come to Phoenix and

we'll sit you down in a room full of people with badges.' Then he hung up on me, so I called

the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and talked to a Detective Crosby, who, in effect, told me

they kind of see Zullo as, uh, he's out there doing his own thing and no one really takes him

seriously. I said that I'm often--

Dr. Ken: You forgot that Gallups somehow ended up on that call somehow as well.

RC: Well, right. Zullo hung up on me, so when I called him back, the first thing he did when I

called him is he called his buddy Carl Gallups. So when I called back, he was on the phone

with Gallups, conference Gallups in and let Gallups listen to the phone call without telling me

that Gallups was on. Well, one hour later they were on the radio crowing about their little

coup, how Zullo let Gallups listen in on our call. It was quite funny.

2:27:54

Reilly: What does that tell you about that interaction? I mean about the personality? Aboutwhat he's doing? It tells me that--

RC: No, go ahead. What does it tell you?

Reilly: It tells me that it's a way of pressuring you not to continue doing what you're doing.

RC: Of course.

Reilly: Very simply, that's what it's all about. Ever since I went on to Birther Report and

starting saying similar things to what I wrote in this letter, man, I got lambasted like you

would not believe. And then I was put into moderation and then I was banned. That's like,

there's something wrong with an investigation, and an investigation using outlets like Birther

Report that is simply one-sided. It proves in my mind, in my opinion, it's totally biased.

RC: Well, what true investigation would give inside information to a small-time radio host

across the country? Gallups has claimed many times that he has inside information that he

can't share. What true law enforcement investigation would do something like that?

2:29:18

Reilly: None of them would do it. I'm going to say one more thing and I'm going to have to cut

it off. What I would suggest that you do is look at the Cold Case Posse incorporated--articles

of incorporation at the Arizona Corporation Commission. He goes by Maricopa County Sheriff'sOffice Cold Case Posse, Inc. It is against his articles of incorporation to be involved in political

propaganda and making a primary or major portion of his activities. So, consequently, when I

was with the Surprise Tea Party, Surprise Tea Party's about politics, isn't it? He would call me

to put things together because, technically, he couldn't do it because of his articles of

incorporation.




24

When he gets Mr. Gallups--and these are all my opinions--when he goes through Mr. Gallups,

who's speaking for the most part? Mr. Gallups. It's not Mike Zullo who's doing a lot of the

talking. It's his spokesperson, if you will, who's doing the talking. In some ways, I would think,

or possibly he thinks, it's protecting his adherence to the articles of corporation--

incorporation--that he's got in the State of Arizona. He's not supposed to be involved in

political propaganda. This whole Posse investigation, in my opinion, is political propaganda.

2:30:57

RC: Well, we agree on that. Well Brian, I'm going to let you go. We've run over 30 minutes.

I’m very appreciative of your time. It's been a fascinating conversation tonight.

Reilly: If you guys have any more questions that I can answer, I'd be more than happy to

answer.

RC: Ok. I hope you can call back or I can set something up maybe in a few weeks after you've

written your second article at Dr. Conspiracy's site. And then we'll see what the big news was

in March maybe by that time too.

Reilly: Yeah. Listen. I appreciate it. I appreciate your time listening. And thank you very

much.

RC: All right Brian. Thank you much too. Bye bye.

Documents

Reality Check Radio Interview With Brian Reilly 3-11-14