Russell B. Lemle, Ph.D.

San Francisco VA Medical Center

APPIC Conference, Portland, OR

April 18, 2009

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS Toni Zeiss, Ph.D.

Deputy Chief Consultant MH Strategic Healthcare Group, DVA Central Office

John Arden, Ph.D. Director of Training, Kaiser Permanente Medical Centers, Northern California

Region

Bob Zeiss, Ph.D. Director, Associate Health Education, Office of Academic Affiliations, DVA Central

Office

Bob Goldberg, Ph.D.Director of Training, Louis Stokes Cleveland DVA Medical Center; APPIC

Newsletter Editor

APPIC BoardSteve McCutcheon, Ph.D., Sharon Berry, Ph.D., Karen Taylor, Ph.D., Eugene

D'Angelo, Ph.D., Teri Simoneau, Ph.D., Arnold Abels, Ph.D., Marla Eby, Ph.D.

OverviewHistory of how postdoctoral programs made

offers

Effort to organize UND starting in 2004

Current status of UND

Issues with UND

Possible modifications & alternatives to UND

Suggested direction for going forward

Discussion and dialogue

APPIC Postdoctoral MembersTraining Year Number of

Agencies Offering Postdocs

Number of Positions

2000-2001 66 279

2001-2002 74 331

2002-2003 78 299

2003-2004 77 316

2004-2005 88 343

2005-2006 96 389

2006-2007 100 402

2007-2008 108 482

2008-2009 117 540

VA Postdoctoral Positions

March 16 February 15

Tale of Two Fellowships

“Competition has been shown to be useful up to

a certain point and no further, but cooperation, which is the thing we must strive for today, begins where competition leaves off.”

Franklin D. Roosevelt

Uniform Notification DatePrograms make offers on same date

Candidates may receive multiple offers

Candidates can accept, reject or hold

If hold, they must formally decide within specified (24 hr) period

UND AdvantagesApplicants have best chance of getting their highest

ranked program by hearing from all programs before choosing

Applicants not put in (ethical) dilemma of accepting 2nd choice and then hearing later from 1st choice

Programs don’t lose the applicants who would have preferred their site but decide to take an earlier “in hand” offer

Programs have larger pool or applicants to review

Programs don’t have to compete by beating others to the punch

Early Regional UND Effort: 2004Created voluntary UND for Northern

California Postdoc programs

Key CollaboratorsJohn Arden, Ph.D. Toni Zeiss, Ph.D.

March 16, 2004 UND: 15 programs participated with 75 positions

Very successful; positive feedback from both programs and students

First National UND Effort: VAThe large increase in VA postdoc positions

provided opportunity to expand voluntary UND nationally

Some programs asked to move date earlier

Feb 28, 2008 UND30 of 44 VA programs elected to use UND10 VA programs made offers before; 4 after

Again, worked beautifully

Further Expansion National UND

Published UND article in APPIC e-newsletter May 2008

Contacted remainder of 125 APPIC postdoctoral members

Contacted 47+ non-APPIC postdoc programs

Of the current (and soon to be) APPIC programs with clinical postdocs, 65% volunteered to use UND

Notification of Postdoctoral Offers(not in APPCN Match) as of April 2009

Where We Are65% of APPIC (plus VA) programs on board for Feb

UND

Total of 107 programs using UND

More programs would join if in March

300-350 postdoc positions offered on same day

We have great momentum

Already have significant level of organization that could continue as interim process

Vast majority of programs and applicants very pleased, but some concerns

Concerns Raised about UNDFebruary date too early

Still losing applicants to preemptive offers

Programs want to secure their top choice

Other issues

Concern About February DateOverlaps Internship Match process (hard on program staff)

Feb UND also comes before APPCN Neuropsych Match results announced ~ second Monday in March

Feb UND comes before APA Rehab (22) & Forensic (41) conferences in early MarchInterviews occur during these conferences

ANSWER: Moving UND date back is feasible (preferable for most programs)

Want to Lock In Top ChoiceElite programs as well as uncompetitive

programs want to secure their applicants early

If UND voluntary, lose desired candidates to earlier pre-emptive offers from programs not using UND

Research based clinical postdocs need flexibility to compete with early research fellowships (or jobs)

Keep current interns (and save them unnecessary burden of applying elsewhere)

Best applicant may come later, so prefer to wait

 

Response to Top Choice Argument

Significantly resolves the competitive system that existed until two years ago that benefitted only those programs that pre-empted others. UND benefits programs system-wide

UND allows applicants to have all their options known, not choose prematurely, and have increased chance of getting highest ranked program

UND allows programs to re-advertise and wait

Coordinating Offers Coddles Applicants

Cut throat free market system is an opportunity for applicants to get a “dress rehearsal” for the competitive professional job market

Applicants shouldn’t have option of multiple offers to chose from

ANSWER: Multiple offers are in their best interestAllow candidates to negotiate salary, start date and

terms if dress rehearsal is prime goal

Other Lingering UND ProblemsApplicants need to know that offers won’t start

until noon Eastern Time, and to not hold multiple offers

Need consistent hold time (1 hr to 24hr, what to do over weekend)

Programs need to immediately notify all rejects by phone to clear system

Alternatives/Modifications to UNDMatch

Early Acceptance of Current Interns

Uniform Acceptance Date

Reciprocal Offer

Later UND date

Uniform Acceptance Date (UAD)Offers made at any point in time

Applicants can hold offers up to a coordinated set date

Advantages to a UADPrograms can make offers to candidates as soon

as they identify them, or to ones that have received another offer

Applicants can accept right away. If hear from #1 choice, spared additional applications and interviews

By acceptance day, many applicants already out of the mix, making it a smaller, simpler day of calling

Can make early offers to current internsUsed by college admissions

Disadvantages to UADVery hard to enforce. Likely to fall apart.

Pressure to decide before UAD

Unlike college admissions, programs have only 1-2 slots, and cannot overbook

Applicants do not know all their choices

Most sites prefer a LATER date (in March); UAD moves things forward in time

UND already being used by 107 sites. Would be a step backwards

Suggested Process Going Forward Could create option in UND process which would

enable programs to respond to an applicant who produces an offer letter from another site (outside the UND) with a reciprocal offer

UND programs would not make own pre-emptive offersSome UND programs already doing this

Solves key complaint of losing candidates to programs not in UND

Eliminates arms race

Move date to mid-March

Who we are doing this for

Postdoctoral Clinical Fellowship Uniform Notification Date. A History and Proposal

http://www.appic.org/news/Newsletter/May2008.pdf 

Russell.lemle@va.gov

415 221-4810 ext 2348

Sample UND Instructional Letter to Candidates Our program will follow the Uniform Notification Date (UND) procedures. Offers will

commence on 2/25/10 at 09:00 am Pacific time (12:00 Eastern). Please make sure prior to UND that I have the telephone number(s) at which you can

be reached throughout the day. If I cannot reach you at the number(s) you have provided, I may choose to offer a position to the next person on our list.

All candidates should have a rank order of their choices completed before the UND. Once an offer is made to you, one of three things can occur: you can accept the offer,

decline the offer, or ask for up to 24 hours to "hold" the offer. If you decide to hold the offer, then the position is frozen and will not be offered to any other candidate during that time period.

Candidates should not hold more than one offer at a time. After receiving and holding an offer, each time you are offered a higher ranked position, you should accept or hold it and immediately release the offer that you were previously holding.  

As soon as you either accept or hold an offer, please call all of the remaining programs that are lower on your preference list and inform them that you no longer wish to be considered at their site.

If you are not our #1 ranked candidate, I will still call you during the day to let you know how things are progressing. If and when we fill our positions, I will notify you. You may call me at any time during the day to inquire about your status.

If you are selected, I will send you a formal offer letter the following week, and will need a formal letter of acceptance from you.