Tab 1 11/30/17 Springfield Public Hearing …MISSOURI HOUSING DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION 11/30/2017 Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 4 1 denotes

Tab 1

11/30/17 Springfield Public Hearing Transcript

MISSOURI HOUSING DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION 11/30/2017

www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES

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1 MISSOURI HOUSING DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING

2 SPRINGFIELD, MISSOURI

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4

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7

8

9 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had in the above-entitled

10 cause on Thursday, the 30th day of November, 2017, at

11 the hour of 11:00 a.m., at the Holiday Inn North, 2720

12 North Glenstone, Springfield, Missouri, before Linda

13 L. Miller, CCR 1407.

14

15

16

17 PRESENT:

18 MR. GUS METZ, Chief Underwriter.

19 MS. TINA CLUBINE, Underwriter.

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1 MR. METZ: Name is Gus Metz the Chief

2 Underwriter at Missouri Housing Development

3 Commission, MHDC. With me this morning is

4 underwriter Tina Clubine.

5 We would like to thank everyone for

6 making time to join us. Our purpose is to

7 present the changes in MHDC's fiscal year 2018

8 Draft Qualified Allocation Plan which we will

9 refer to as the Draft QAP that was approved by

10 MHDC commissioners at our November 17th

11 commission meeting and to hear your comments,

12 opinions, suggestions, regarding these

13 changes.

14 Just a real quick housekeeping note,

15 please make sure you signed in on the sign-in

16 sheets in the back of the room. If you have

17 not done so, please do so before you leave

18 today. And also, please make sure your cell

19 phones are on silent.

20 I want to take a little bit of time and

21 provide a brief summary of the status of

22 MHDC's fiscal year 2018 QAP process. MHDC

23 staff held webinars in August to review

24 proposed changes with interested parties and

25 to receive comments and suggestions regarding



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1 those changes.

2 We incorporated some of those in the

3 Draft QAP presented to our commissioners at

4 our September meeting for approval so we could

5 hold public hearings. Staff held public

6 hearings across the state, receiving comments

7 and suggestions from the general public.

8 At the November 17th commission meeting,

9 the commission approved the current fiscal

10 year 2018 Draft QAP, a copy of which is

11 published on the MHDC website and provided to

12 you for this hearing. For your convenience,

13 copies of the redlined version of the current

14 FY2018 Draft QAP and the summary of changes

15 have been placed besides the sign-in sheets on

16 the side of the room.

17 I want to talk about that within the

18 redlined version of the QAP, you may notice

19 different changes are highlighted different

20 colors. The verbiage that is highlighted

21 yellow denotes changes in the QAP that were

22 made between the 2017 final QAP that was

23 approved May 27th of 2016 and the September 7,

24 2017 commission meeting.

25 Verbiage that is highlighted in green



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1 denotes changes to the QAP that were made

2 between the September 7th of 2017 commission

3 meeting and the November 17th commission

4 meeting that are associated with not awarding

5 state low income housing tax credits.

6 Verbiage that is highlighted in blue

7 denotes other changes to the QAP that were

8 also made between the September 7th, 2017

9 commission meeting and the November 17th

10 commission meeting.

11 Tina will now present a summary of the

12 changes to the 2018 Draft QAP that was

13 approved for public hearing at the November

14 17th 2017 commission meeting. Thank you.

15 MS. CLUBINE: Can everyone hear me in the

16 back? There are a few empty seats up here if

17 you folks in the back would like a place to

18 sit.

19 What follows is a summary of proposed

20 changes to the 2018 fiscal year Draft

21 Qualified Allocation Plan. It reflects all

22 changes made since the previous 2018 Draft

23 Qualified Allocation Plan public hearings held

24 in September. As Gus mentioned, this Draft

25 QAP was approved by the Missouri Housing



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1 Development Commission on Friday, November

2 17th. This summary of proposed changes is

3 being provided to assist you in your review.

4 I want to start on Page 1, general

5 information under A, Purpose. MHDC has

6 removed all references to the State 9% and 4%

7 Low Income Housing tax Credit with the

8 following exception. This statement is

9 located in the general information section,

10 subcategory A, again on Page 1. It states as

11 follows: MHDC also administers the State Low

12 Income Housing Tax Credit Program, State LIHTC

13 under Section 135.350 et seq. of Chapter 135

14 of the Missouri Revised Statutes, as amended

15 (The State Tax Relief Act) although no 9%

16 State LIHTC or 4% State LIHTC is authorized

17 under this Qualified Allocation Plan to fund

18 affordable housing.

19 On E, Deadline and Application Fees, on

20 Page 3. The application deadline has been

21 changed to February 16, 2018. We have removed

22 references to a Round 2 application round as

23 well.

24 On Page 13, Section III, under the

25 Reservation Process. A, Housing Priorities,



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1 2, Set-aside preferences which was formerly

2 the Special Needs Priority, clarified the

3 definition. It states as follows: "The

4 Set-Aside Preferences shall consist of two

5 separate and distinct priorities. Special

6 Needs and Vulnerable Persons, as defined and

7 set forth in more detail below. Developments

8 applying under the Set-Aside preferences must

9 select either the Special Needs Priority or

10 the Vulnerable Persons Priority, but not

11 both".

12 Under A, Special Needs Priority, also on

13 Page 13, definition "For purposes of

14 administering the federal LIHTC, a person with

15 special needs is a person who is (A)

16 physically, emotionally or mentally impaired

17 or is diagnosed with mental illness or (B)

18 developmentally disabled.

19 For B, Vulnerable Populations, on Page

20 14, the definition was "For purposes of

21 administering the federal LIHTC, a vulnerable

22 person is a person who is (A) homeless,

23 including survivors of domestic violence and

24 human or sex trafficking, or (B) a youth

25 transitioning from foster care.



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1 Additionally, "Youth aging out of foster

2 care" has been changed to "Youth transitioning

3 from foster care."

4 On C, Set-Aside Preferences Housing

5 Reserve Fund, formerly the Special Needs

6 Housing Reserve Fund on Page 14, and the

7 following verbiage for clarification.

8 "Deposits to the Set-Aside Preferences Housing

9 Reserve Fund are intended for use for all

10 special needs developments, commencing with

11 2014 approvals, and all developments funded

12 under the Set-Aside Preferences commencing

13 with 2018 approvals, and are intended to

14 replace the need for each property to

15 establish a separate reserve for unexpected

16 costs, specifically related to developments

17 funded under the Set-Aside Preferences or the

18 former Special Needs Reserve."

19 That is the end of the proposed changes

20 to 2018 fiscal year Draft Qualified Allocation

21 Plan.

22 MR. METZ: Thank you very much, Tina.

23 We'll open the floor for comments or

24 suggestions from the public concerning fiscal

25 year 2018 Draft QAP. If anybody has any



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1 comments, please just raise your hand, come up

2 to the front of the table after I call on you,

3 please spell your name for the court reporter

4 to get it down correctly, so we can get you in

5 the public record.

6 Also, due to the large turnout this

7 morning at the hearing, I'm not sure how many

8 people will be speaking, so please limit your

9 comments to two to three minutes to allow time

10 for others who may also want to provide

11 comments. We expect all comments and

12 suggestions to be confined related to the QAP

13 and finally, please note that as I mentioned

14 earlier, this public hearing is to provide an

15 opportunity for public comments, opinions and

16 suggestions. It is not a discussion forum.

17 We will not be answering any questions

18 from the public at the hearing. We want this

19 to be an opportunity for you to tell us what

20 you think and your comments on the QAP.

21 Also one other thing to note, if you have

22 written comments, could you please give a copy

23 to the court reporter if that is possible, and

24 that may help her transcribe the comments

25 later.



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1 At this time I want to open up the floor

2 for comments and as I said I will either point

3 out to you or say something to distinguish who

4 it is, I know the mayor is here, would you

5 like to come up, sir, and speak first? I know

6 you have other things that are pressing today

7 and we appreciate that.

8 MAYOR McCLURE: Good morning and thank

9 you. My name is Ken McClure, M-c-C-l-u-r-e,

10 and I am the mayor of Springfield. Welcome to

11 our community. We're delighted you're here.

12 I wanted to speak very briefly about

13 concerns we have and they relate to really a

14 priority that we have as a city and that is

15 economic vitality.

16 MR. METZ: Can I turn on the mic real

17 fast? I think we turned if off and I didn't

18 turn it back on.

19 MAYOR McCLURE: We want to relate to

20 concerns that we have as they relate to

21 economic vitality as we talk about Low Income

22 Housing Tax Credits. We believe they are more

23 efficient and less taxable than grants as we

24 look at the whole aspect of this, we consider

25 them to be a hand-up, not a hand-out. They



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1 are not free but they do reduce rents by an

2 average of about $288 a month for elderly, for

3 disabled people, otherwise they would not be

4 able to afford an apartment.

5 We think that ties directly to economic

6 vitality. We know that senior projects are a

7 very wise use of the tax dollar because of the

8 Medicaid savings from reduced nursing home

9 use. Over the past decade these credits have

10 helped build 800 plus new senior units

11 annually. Of those, 43% of the residents are

12 detoured from nursing homes thanks to the

13 special services provided in these units.

14 We also look at homeless veterans and we

15 look at those very frequently in our

16 community, it's another key constituency these

17 credits support. Veterans who may suffer from

18 PTSD, other issues, facing challenges such as

19 finding affordable housing and other issues

20 are all dealt directly with this. It helps

21 groups like the Salvation Army, build

22 affordable housing and help with on-site

23 support. It spares government from the cost

24 of mental health issues that can be very. very

25 expensive and also the medical services.



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1 So in summary, we believe that it allows

2 projects to charge affordable rents. Without

3 the state credits the average rents on these

4 projects will increase by $250 to $300 per

5 month. We think this is not affordable. We

6 think this is especially burdensome for

7 Missouri and that's predominantly rural

8 markets but also affects Springfield so we

9 appreciate your consideration of these remarks

10 and as you consider this and again, thank you

11 for visiting Springfield. We're pleased

12 you're here and look forward to your continued

13 deliberations. Thank you, sir.

14 MR. METZ: Mr. Mayor, thank you very

15 much. (Applause)

16 Yes, ma'am.

17 MS. HARDIN: Ann Hardin, A-n-n,

18 H-a-r-d-i-n, Nixa, Missouri. I live in

19 Highland Ridge Senior. My income is $657 a

20 month. I've worked hard all my life. I'm on

21 social security, not SSI, but social security.

22 This is hard for me to say. I'm not used to

23 speaking like this.

24 MR. METZ: It's quite okay.

25 MS. HARDIN: If it wasn't for places like



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1 Highland Ridge, I would be homeless. I could

2 not afford much more than I'm paying now and I

3 pay $314 a month. Then I've got groceries,

4 hospital bills and another things.

5 I have a safe place to live, it's in a

6 good community, but if it wasn't for that,

7 see, the most I ever made in my life was $8 an

8 hour. And a lot of people are in the same

9 position I'm in. Our government did away with

10 our factories. That's how we made good money.

11 Now we don't have those good-paying jobs, for

12 just ordinary folks, Springfield included.

13 I'm a Springfield native but I live in Nixa

14 because I can't afford Springfield.

15 Springfield's too high.

16 And to be honest with you, I have a nice

17 place to live. We have places, we've got

18 transportation. We've got friends that will

19 take us places. But if it wasn't for Highland

20 Ridge and places like that, a tent would be

21 all I could afford. And we need the

22 government to step up and say, "Hey, we have

23 hard working people who have worked hard all

24 their lives, we need to take care and say that

25 they need the help."



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1 And right now, you say we will be all

2 right next year. But if you change your mind

3 in 2019, "Oh, we're going to do away with

4 everything," it won't be there for us.

5 You two will be responsible for putting

6 people out on the street and how are you going

7 to tell your grandchildren, "Oh, look what I

8 do. I put people on the street." Because you

9 won't take care of people who have done and

10 worked hard and took care of patients and took

11 care of people. Thank you. (Applause).

12 MR. METZ: Yes, ma'am.

13 MS. BUSCH: Hello I'm Annie Busch,

14 A-n-n-i-e, Busch, like the beer. Since you

15 probably don't drink it's B-u-s-c-h.

16 MR. METZ: My first name is August, like

17 Budweiser.

18 MS. BUSCH: We have a connection. I'm a

19 volunteer. I've worked with homeless groups

20 for about nine years, former library director.

21 I'm here because I'm concerned about young

22 people. The fastest growing -- well, the

23 highest likelihood of whether you're homeless

24 is whether you were homeless as a child. And

25 the fastest growing segment of the homeless



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1 youth community is youth aging out of foster

2 care. We know that we have 200 or 300 young

3 people in this community are homeless. We

4 don't have enough housing for them.

5 And you think when you come out of a home

6 that is dysfunctional, you've been moved from

7 family to family, you need stability. We have

8 plans here for a home or housing for kids and

9 I like changing out of to transitioning out of

10 because sometimes they leave foster care

11 before they are old enough to be forced out

12 and sadly, their foster parents don't

13 always -- are not always there for them.

14 So when we do something here, we not only

15 find housing for them, and you cannot

16 stabilize their lives until you stabilize

17 their housing. We surround them with

18 services. And I can tell you in Springfield

19 we have the most collaborative community

20 you'll find.

21 From that have come people from all

22 corners whether it's OTC, or it's middle

23 college or whatever it is, we surround them

24 with services. We're working with other

25 organizations to give them the skills to be



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1 successful and perhaps for the first time in

2 their lives, have people who care and could

3 give them the skills to be people that are

4 productive people who add back to the economy.

5 We cannot house these individuals without

6 support. It won't happen, just like as we

7 were talking for seniors and others. It

8 requires some help from the government to be

9 able to make it possible to get the rents down

10 far enough that they can afford housing, food,

11 and to be able to continue their life and to

12 work and education.

13 So I appreciate you thinking about the

14 youth. This is a cycle, this is a cycle. If

15 we don't take care of them now, we will have

16 to take care of them later and it will cost a

17 lot more than what we're paying to house them.

18 Thank you very much. (Applause).

19 FEMALE SPEAKER:

20 MS GAIN: Hi, my name is Jasper

21 J-a-s-p-e-r, Gain, G-a-i-n. I'm 22 and I'm a

22 student at Missouri State. After this

23 semester, I will be a senior. I am part of

24 the Boonville Lofts Project.

25 I just want to give a little bit about my



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1 story and why it has helped me. Summer of

2 2016 I was diagnosed with cancer and had to

3 drop out of Missouri State and move back to

4 Kansas City. And then I wound up getting

5 guardianship of my younger sister after my

6 father passed away. And as a former foster

7 care youth myself, I didn't want her to go

8 into the foster care system, and so moving

9 back to Springfield was a little bit hard, as

10 a 22-year-old with a 12-year-old, but I knew

11 that I needed to go back to college and this

12 program has been a hand-up, not a hand-out.

13 And I just want to say how important it

14 is for programs like this to help other youth

15 and elderly and anybody than needs a little

16 step up in life. So thank you for coming to

17 hear us.

18 MR. METZ: Thank you, Jasper. (Applause)

19 MS. WOLFRAM: My name is Katrena,

20 K-a-t-r-e-n-a, unlike the hurricane, Wolfram,

21 W-o-l-f-r-a-m. I'm the Executive Director for

22 the Housing Authority of Springfield. We also

23 have an Executive Director here from Joplin

24 Housing Authority and we are here to support

25 our state tax program and the tax credits in



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1 Springfield. We're going to be doing a $30

2 million RAD project, so we need all the

3 resources we can get to fund this program for

4 those that are very low income. They will get

5 to move into better property. They will get

6 to move where it's more successful, they're on

7 the bus line, they're closer to

8 transportation, closer to jobs. This will

9 greatly improve the lives of our very low

10 income here in Springfield.

11 I also plan on doing a VASH program for

12 the veterans homeless here in Springfield that

13 will take tax credits to make it work.

14 We have a lot to do in Springfield to

15 better our housing programs for the very low

16 income and those less fortunate. So, I

17 appreciate people speaking up on how we serve

18 our communities.

19 We need these tax credits, we need this

20 funding and it affects all the housing

21 authorities because we have to do something.

22 We have a $26 billion dollar backlog in

23 capital needs and that's not coming from HUD

24 anymore. So we have to do something to make

25 these programs work. And we need MHDC to



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1 support us in this RAD conversion and help us

2 get the financial resources we need to make

3 this work.

4 So Matt, if you have anything that you

5 want to add?

6 MR. MORAN: Is that okay?

7 MR. METZ: Absolutely.

8 MR. MORAN: My name is Matt Moran,

9 M-o-r-a-n. I'm the Executive Director over in

10 Joplin, thank you for having me. I jotted

11 down a couple of notes here to add on to what

12 Katrena was saying.

13 It is disappointing to see that there was

14 a decision to not provide the state tax

15 credits, because there are a lot of good

16 things coming from the projects you've

17 provided over in Joplin. The tax credits, the

18 properties that we got after the tornado were

19 key to the recovery over there. It was a long

20 couple years waiting for some of those to

21 become available but they were some of the

22 first ones for the people who needed

23 affordable housing the most.

24 And we still have a need, thankfully we

25 were funded for I think two or three area



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1 projects last year, that are coming through

2 your pipeline. But there's a good chance

3 we're going to see a continued need to have

4 some of those and you know, I'm at an agency

5 where I think we've been good to argue against

6 some projects through the years when we felt

7 like it wasn't what the community necessarily

8 need and we may reach a point where we do it

9 again but for the current time, we're still

10 seeing a great need for affordable housing in

11 Joplin.

12 And just maybe make another comment that

13 if the decision is based how the funds are

14 spent and whether or not they are stretching

15 as far as they need to stretch, I would like

16 to see MHDC consider some discussions about

17 maybe adjusting the programs to maybe use some

18 of the non-profit partners including housing

19 authorities more than they do.

20 There is not a lot of projects that have

21 been applied toward housing authority

22 properties, there is a few, but maybe more of

23 that would help with the issue of making the

24 money go as far as it needs to go.

25 Thank you. (Applause)



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1 MR. METZ: Thank both of you for your

2 comments.

3 Yes.

4 MR. MILLER: I'm Nick Miller, N-i-c-k,

5 M-i-l-l-e-r. My wife and I, we live at Abbey

6 Orchard in Nixa. I'm sorry.

7 We have been there for 14 years. My wife

8 has gone through -- we've been married 56

9 years. My wife has gone through three really

10 bad surgeries. I've been through two myself.

11 Our property, we've been there 14 years and it

12 is taken so good care of. And it's our home.

13 And our income is our social security, and

14 like I say, this is our home and if our rent

15 goes up, I mean every time it goes up just a

16 little bit it hurts.

17 And with what everybody -- what I'm

18 hearing here is things go up even worse, I

19 mean what will we do? So, God willing we

20 won't be on the street, you know?

21 Anyway, I hope people take this in

22 consideration, we're like Ann here, just this

23 is what we've got. I just want to let my

24 feelings known that please let's not get this

25 thing out of hand to where rents just go up



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1 and up and then what will we do? Abbey

2 Orchard is a great place, it is our home. We

3 have one gentleman now that lost his wife a

4 month ago, he doesn't get her social security.

5 He's struggling, he doesn't know what he will

6 do now.

7 Stories like this, they are not stories.

8 This is life, okay? So thank you, if you take

9 all that stuff into consideration.

10 (Applause).

11 MR. METZ: Thank you so much.

12 MS. JURADO-MILLER: Hi, I'm Stacy

13 Jurado-Miller, J-u-r-a-d-o-Miller.

14 In the Governor's statement regarding his

15 actions to eliminate state tax credits, he

16 said he was ending politics as usual. I think

17 we have seen in just the few stories we have

18 heard that we are not talking about politics.

19 We're talking about people and their lives and

20 to frame it as politics is a complete

21 injustice to the people of Missouri. This is

22 about people. (Applause).

23 The entire year of 2017 has been wasted

24 for the neediest Missourians and the reason

25 it's been wasted is because of politics. As



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1 the Governor stages a commission to analyze

2 tax credits, no new affordable housing has

3 been created, no new supportive housing was

4 created. You announced a funding round for 4%

5 bond deals and haven't allocated a dollar of

6 that money. Nothing has happened.

7 So I am advocating today for reform of

8 this system, not elimination of the LIHTC

9 system. This program is vital but it is not

10 without room for improvement.

11 There are specific things to make it more

12 effective. For one, if the Governor and the

13 commissioners are interested in analyzing

14 state LIHTC, I would suggest those credits be

15 used to support permanent supportive housing

16 and special needs housing.

17 We talk about the neediest populations,

18 homeless veterans, youth aging out of foster

19 care, individuals with disabilities and mental

20 health issues. And in your proposed changes,

21 there is still a priority for those

22 populations. But without state LIHTC credits

23 or some additional new form of funding it is

24 near impossible to serve those populations.

25 Housing authorities will tell you they have a



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1 limited amount of project-based vouchers. HUD

2 funding has been cut. Some form of funding

3 needs to exist in order to enable that type of

4 housing. We can't just put it on a piece of

5 paper, say it is a priority and then not put

6 the funding in place to make it so. So that

7 is one specific suggestion I have.

8 Also, in regard to the Governor's

9 statements about ending politics as usual,

10 there is a need for the reform of how these

11 tax credits are allocated in the State of

12 Missouri. Most every other state in the union

13 uses a point system to determine how tax

14 credits are awarded. Here in the State of

15 Missouri we don't have a point system.

16 So you have a commission that is made up

17 of politicians who receive donations, and then

18 they are in charge of allocating those funds.

19 I think there is obviously some potential

20 there for undue influence and a lack of

21 transparency.

22 And if the Governor is truly interested

23 in seeing politics as usual ended, he will

24 analyze that system and how the tax credits

25 are awarded.



Page 24

1 Additionally, there needs to be priority

2 given to projects addressing broader needs

3 beyond housing. People spoke about the most

4 vulnerable populations those are the most

5 important projects. As we heard from stories

6 from people like Ann and Nick, general

7 affordable housing is vital, too.

8 In short I urge a reform of the state

9 LIHTC system and acknowledgement that we are

10 not talking about politics, we're not talking

11 about dollars saved, we're talking about

12 genuine lives affected and human beings,

13 Missouri residents who will be out on the

14 street.

15 And Ann said essentially the blood will

16 be on your hands. I think as staff you

17 obviously have limited ability here, but I

18 hope that the Governor and the commissioners

19 understand the ramifications of the choices

20 that they are proposing.

21 Thank you. (Applause).

22 MR. METZ: Thank you, Stacy.

23 MS. HARP: Hello, I am Belinda Harp,

24 B-e-l-i-n-d-a, H-a-r-p.

25 I am here to beg you to look at this. It



Page 25

1 is lives you are affecting, that this decision

2 is affecting.

3 Five years ago I was a nurse, working two

4 jobs to raise my 14-year-old son. My brain

5 injury took over my life, and I lost my

6 insurance, I lost my job, I lost my home. My

7 son had to go live with his dad. I had to

8 live on the streets and it was confusing with

9 having a brain injury. I stayed at shelters,

10 and then that got dangerous, because of the

11 arguments that was going on, so I lived in a

12 tent.

13 And then I got a room in the Missouri

14 Hotel, which I was so grateful for, and got

15 into this program.

16 I have a home today at McClernon Villas

17 because of this program. I have a life today,

18 not just a place to live, a beautiful home,

19 which I'm grateful for every day. I thank God

20 for this home. And for this -- for this

21 change to have a piece of my life back.

22 Please, open your eyes.

23 You know, I didn't think five years ago I

24 was ever going to be homeless, never. But I

25 overcame it. I did not let it stop me. And



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1 get me down. I put one foot in front of the

2 other. I survived it. I can't look back with

3 my brain injury, I can't remember everything I

4 went through every day, but I survived it, I'm

5 here.

6 And I am grateful for this program and

7 the people in the future that this could help.

8 I beg of you for their lives, for their peace

9 of mind, for their safety to have a place to

10 be safe and I have four walls and door and

11 window around you, to be safe.

12 Please, help those have had life happen

13 to them. Thank you. (Applause.)

14 MR. METZ: Thank you very much.

15 MR. BORGMEYER: Hi, everybody. my name is

16 Matthew Borgmeyer, M-a-t-t-h-e-w,

17 B-o-r-g-m-e-y-e-r. And right now I just pray

18 for boldness because if there have been any

19 cry babies up here you are now looking at a

20 230 pound hairy baby right now. But it is

21 only because I feel very strongly about this.

22 For the last nine years I've had the

23 pleasure of being a contractor out there

24 building these homes, for an incredible

25 company that is truly changing lives and I



Page 27

1 have seen first hand how it -- how the light

2 has come on and changed people's lives. I've

3 seen programs in action like just helping

4 people coupon, learn how to coupon and save

5 money; teach classes they do tutoring programs

6 for the children in the evening and provide

7 snacks for them. How they just teach them how

8 to get the most out of their utility bills.

9 It's just a blessing to watch.

10 As the builder there, I'm able to as each

11 building gets done, welcome them home, you

12 know, welcome them to their new home and just

13 see such a true gratitude in their eyes.

14 And so, it's been a true blessing in my

15 life and I just want to finish by reading a

16 song. I love music and anybody that knows me

17 knows that I love music and I have always got

18 music playing on the job site.

19 And so I just want to finish by reading a

20 couple lyrics of a song. The song is "Do

21 Something" by Matthew West.

22 He says, "I woke up this morning, I saw a

23 world full of trouble, now thought how did we

24 ever get so far down and how is it ever going

25 to turn around? So I turned my eyes to heaven



Page 28

1 and I thought God, why don't you do something?

2 Well, I couldn't just bear the thought of

3 people living in poverty, children sold in

4 slavery. The thought disgusted me, so I shook

5 my fist into heaven and I said God, why don't

6 you do something? He said I did, yeah, I

7 created you. And listen, if not us, then who?

8 If not me and you, right now, it's time

9 for us to do something. If not now, then

10 when? When will we see an end to all this

11 pain? Oh, it's not enough to do nothing, it's

12 time for us to do something.

13 I'm so tired of talking about how we are

14 God's hands and feet, but it's easier to say

15 than to be. Live like angels of apathy who

16 tell ourselves it's all right, somebody else

17 will do something. Well I don't know about

18 you, but I'm sick and tired of this life with

19 no desire. I don't want to be a flame, I want

20 to be a fire.

21 I want to be the one who stands up and

22 says I'm going to do something. We are the

23 salt of the earth, we are a city on a hill,

24 we're never going to change the world by

25 standing still. I'm not going to stand still.



Page 29

1 If not us, then who, if not me and you, right

2 now, it's time for us to do something. If not

3 now, then when? When will we see an end to

4 all this pain? It's not enough to do nothing,

5 it's time for us to do something".

6 Thanks. (Applause).

7 MR. METZ: Okay.

8 MR. McCOY: Good morning, my name is

9 Randy McCoy, R-a-n-d-y, M-c-C-o-y. And I am

10 the Director of Housing Programs for The

11 Kitchen.

12 I really wish I could stand here today

13 and tell you that eliminating the state tax

14 credit for the LIHTC program isn't a big deal.

15 I wish I could tell you that there is plenty

16 of affordable housing in the State of Missouri

17 and developing more in the future isn't

18 important. But I can't. Because that would

19 be a lie.

20 Affordable housing is the difference a

21 lot of times as you already heard between

22 somebody having a stable place to live and

23 living on the street. Or in living in

24 conditions especially if you're a homeless

25 youth, where you are sacrificing one thing,



Page 30

1 say your body for sexual favors and as a safe

2 place to sleep or a place of your own where

3 you can go and develop into a meaningful life.

4 The Kitchen, Incorporated is a developer

5 of affordable housing and been very fortunate

6 over the past five years to develop 112 units

7 of affordable housing. While 112 units is

8 probably in significant in the pool of housing

9 that is needed, and is probably a small amount

10 considering other developers throughout the

11 State who develop for larger projects than we

12 do. It is very meaningful for those who live

13 in our projects now.

14 We service a lot of special needs

15 populations. Veterans. Senior projects, and

16 individuals who are exiting homelessness. As

17 Mayor McClure noted there are certain cost

18 benefits to -- (static)

19 MR. METZ: Sorry. Perhaps try this mic.

20 MR. McCOY: As Mayor McClure referred

21 to there are cost impacts to individuals

22 having safe and decent affordable housing. He

23 references Medicare and Medicaid costs for

24 individuals with health conditions or who are

25 elderly. There is also a cost for individuals



Page 31

1 being homeless. Comparison studies across

2 other cities comparable size to Springfield

3 indicate it costs $20 to $30,000 per year for

4 each individual who is left on the streets to

5 be homeless. Those costs are borne out by

6 local communities through police, jails,

7 hospitals and ER visits and other costs the

8 average citizen pays.

9 So in the developments that The Kitchen

10 has done over the last five years, 36 units

11 were dedicated to individuals transitioning

12 out of homelessness and if the cost estimate

13 of $20 to $30,000 is two or three times larger

14 than the actual local cost, the minimum

15 savings if it is $10,000 a year per person for

16 the local community for the projects funded

17 just at The Kitchen are over $360,000 in cost

18 savings for the community a year.

19 I know it is a dollar and cent issue in a

20 lot of ways, but it's more than just the

21 dollars and cents and you heard from a lot of

22 people who talked about it today and how

23 important it is for their lives.

24 Living in a state that has a state motto

25 I hate to go back to that but it is the health



Page 32

1 of the people should be the supreme law. And

2 when Cicero the Roman order wrote those words

3 I'm pretty darned sure he didn't know the

4 difference between a microwave oven and tax

5 credit but I'm certain that housing that is

6 safe, decent and affordable for individuals in

7 the community is something that Cicero would

8 have considered to be part of that supreme

9 law.

10 So I hope that the commission will put

11 the state tax credits back in. They really

12 are what makes a lot of these deals affordable

13 for individuals and allows organizations like

14 The Kitchen to develop them without long term

15 debt that they have to service. While reform

16 to the tax credit system is something that

17 could be done, this is not the way to do it

18 and probably doing it to the effect of

19 eliminating housing for many individuals in

20 the future. Thank you. (Applause).

21 MR. METZ: Yes, ma'am. You might need to

22 speak closer.

23 MS. MORROW: I'm loud enough. I'm Tena,

24 T-e-n-a, Morrow, M-o-r-r-o-w. I am the

25 Residential Director for the Arc of the



Page 33

1 Ozarks. I help support individuals who have

2 mental and physical disabilities. The

3 individuals I support, like others in this

4 room, have a very strict income. It's based

5 on benefits, and we are talking $750 to $800 a

6 month. What's different is they also have

7 medical issues that have to come out of these

8 benefits.

9 If you take the affordable housing away

10 from them, there is absolutely no way they are

11 going to be able to function. We will be

12 going back to institution where we cot people

13 up 8, 10 in a room because they won't be able

14 to afford it.

15 You're also making my job difficult

16 because my job is to find housing for them and

17 I'm supposed to convince guardians, "Hey,

18 let's go get this house that is $400 a month

19 on the bad part of town that is only broken

20 into every other day." Your heating bill is

21 twice what the rent is but this is going to be

22 a great fit. You're making my job impossible.

23 And you're regressing for these people because

24 they will have to be put back into

25 institutions but now they have homes that they



Page 34

1 can afford. They are able to somewhat to pay

2 for medical needs.

3 By you taking away this credit, the

4 government taking away the credit that option

5 won't be there for them anymore, they won't

6 have those homes and things will change for

7 them.


9 MR. METZ: Yes, sir.

10 MR. ELWELL: My name is Dana, D-a-n-a,

11 Elwell, E-l-w-e-l-l. I represent several

12 housing groups in the city, and I think the

13 important thing on when you think of LIHTC is

14 to think of low income housing not the tax

15 credit piece and what it provides to us.

16 If you look at statistics nearly half the

17 people in the United States that rent are rent

18 burdened which means they pay over 30% of

19 their income for rent. So low income housing

20 is so important particularly in our area as

21 the mayor indicated, being a rural area, rents

22 are lower and so developers really aren't able

23 to borrow money at low interest rates and

24 still provide low income housing because the

25 rents are so low they nearly can't pay back



Page 35

1 the debt and the expenses.

2 So it really is important I think to keep

3 that in mind, low income housing is the focus

4 and I know the comments have been made from

5 the MHDC that it's inefficient and my

6 suggestion would be rather than get rid of the

7 program, look at a way to make it more

8 efficient, work with developers to make sure

9 they think 42 cents isn't enough to be used

10 for cost of construction what number would

11 that be and what number would work for the

12 developers so they can continue the LIHTC

13 credits.


15 MR. METZ: Thank you, sir.

16 MR. CHARLES MEEK: Good morning. I'm

17 Charles Meek, CEO of Meeks Lumber. During the

18 great recession Missouri's LIHTC program was

19 the only construction that was happening in

20 Missouri. There was no other construction.

21 Housing completely froze up. Many of our

22 rural markets have never recovered from the

23 housing recession. The only housing that's

24 being created in any of those markets are the

25 LIHTC-funded projects. LIHTC is the



Page 36

1 affordable housing system for the State of

2 Missouri.

3 The need is immense and immediate. We

4 have no back stop. If this goes through,

5 construction will simply cease. What about

6 those families that are waiting for a house?

7 The economic impact of LIHTC is local and

8 significant. I can tell you that from

9 experience. Virtually all the investment in

10 LIHTC projects is spent on goods and services

11 in the local community. This creates sales

12 tax revenue, economic development, and

13 employment.

14 Think about it, if you're creating

15 growth, where there is a need to improve

16 incomes, what better way than spend that money

17 in the areas where the need is greatest?

18 On a personal note, as far as efficiency,

19 I can tell you I deal with a lot of builders,

20 nobody spends money better than these

21 developers. Nobody. I can show you my damn

22 margins, I mean that. They work hard, they

23 spend their money wisely, and for you

24 homeowners, I'm humbled and proud of going by

25 and seeing those projects. They are fabulous.



Page 37

1 I love taking my kids going through them under

2 construction, and it's a shame they are going

3 to put this to an end. Thank you.

4 (Applause).


6 MR. RICHIE: Tony Richie, T-o-n-y,

7 R-i-c-h-i-e. I'm one of those contractors

8 that works with Meeks and others and I have

9 about 20 employees. And he's right. We have

10 survived for ten years doing MHDC, Kansas

11 City, St. Louis, Springfield. It was the only

12 work around and so you had to work your

13 company towards being able to meet the

14 requirements to do these projects. But

15 without them, we would have to get out of the

16 construction business, because there wasn't

17 anything else to do.

18 Those 20 people that work for me, they

19 live pretty good. They are required to pay a

20 certain amount but they pay their taxes, we

21 take their taxes out, I know how much taxes

22 they are paying. That is going right back in

23 the community. They are going out for dinner,

24 they are doing the things that people do that

25 make a decent living.



Page 38

1 If they do away with that, we won't be

2 able to pay them, we'll have to lay them off.

3 Then you have all these unemployed people.

4 That doesn't help any of us. Many worked for

5 me for a long time. We have to take all that

6 in consideration.

7 MR. METZ: Thank you. (Applause)

8 MS. RUFF: Good morning. My name is

9 Karen K-a-r-e-n, Burnell, B-u-r-n-e-l-l, no

10 hyphen Ruff, R-u-f-f. And I am here on behalf

11 of the Southwest Center for Independent Living

12 Skill, we are an independent living center

13 here in Springfield with our mission to

14 promote a barrier-free environment for

15 individuals with disabilities through public

16 education and advocacy to individuals with

17 disabilities and their families. While we are

18 providing independent living services at the

19 same time.

20 One of the core services that we provide

21 is transition services which is two pronged;

22 one is transitioning individuals that are in

23 institutional care back in the community

24 living, and transitioning youth from high

25 school to employment or into higher education.



Page 39

1 As our staff report, we receive on

2 average, 15 to 20 calls per week requesting

3 assistance to identify affordable, quality

4 housing that meets their needs. Often times

5 people with disabilities have mobility

6 impairments that the 5% accessible requirement

7 through fair housing is not adequate to meet

8 that need.

9 The MHDC Low Income Housing Tax Credit

10 program has done an amazing job at trying to

11 fill that gap for these individuals. Because

12 the developers that we work with, which are

13 many, have really adopted and embraced

14 including universal design concepts in their

15 building projects that allow people with

16 disabilities to access and use all the spaces

17 and to not be discriminated because of a

18 mobility impairment.

19 We are proud to work with these partners

20 and we see the value in the tax credit program

21 in reducing the rents because without the

22 state tax credit match, it would probably

23 increase the rents double what they currently

24 are, which make it out of reach for people

25 that we support with disabilities in our



Page 40

1 community.

2 I would like to not restate everything

3 that was said, but I applaud everybody for

4 coming forward and sharing their stories

5 because it all just shows you that there is a

6 clear demonstration of need and value in this

7 program that can be made much more efficient

8 and look at all the things to make it better

9 without throwing the baby out with the bath

10 water. So I would urge the commission to

11 consider along with the Governor, to take not

12 a wide brush approach to a program that is

13 vital and we should be proud and I am proud in

14 Springfield at the work that has been done to

15 accomplish this and I would just urge you to

16 consider. Thank you. (Applause)


18 MR. EVERETT: My name is John Everett,

19 J-o-h-n, E-v-e-r-e-t-t. I'm the President and

20 CEO of Legacy Bank and Trust. We're

21 designated by the Treasury as a community

22 development financial institution. To the

23 best of my knowledge only three banks in the

24 state with this designation. You achieve this

25 designation by making over 60% of your loans



Page 41

1 in low to moderate income areas. And so

2 therefore, there are very few banks that meet

3 this designation.

4 We feel we have obviously a big knowledge

5 in financing loans and affordable housing

6 picture as well as in some of the depressed

7 areas. And I will tell you and I believe I'll

8 paraphrase the Governor on this, if we

9 eliminate the tax credit program, the

10 financing will figure itself out and these

11 developers will figure it out. It couldn't be

12 further from the truth.

13 I'm not going to make this an emotional

14 speech. I commend the people that have told

15 you the boots on the ground side. I'll tell

16 you the financing side of it.

17 These tax credits provide the equity to

18 allow the rents to be low. Without that

19 additional equity the rents can't be there.

20 Let's on a pure finance side of this. Without

21 that elimination and allow that ability to

22 allow developers, I'll back up Mr. Meek, some

23 of the best developers we deal with as a bank

24 when we know we have someone that specializes

25 in the LIHTC program you're dealing with an



Page 42

1 extremely professional organization that knows

2 what's they are doing. You cannot turn around

3 and say it will figure itself out. No, it

4 won't.

5 These LIHTC projects work, they do not

6 fail. As a banker, we don't take huge risks,

7 that is not our job. Our job is to measure

8 risk and apply it to the least amount. The

9 LIHTC projects have the least amount of risk

10 of anything we do, any loan we make, the LIHTC

11 loans work. So therefore if you eliminate

12 that, I can tell you my hesitancy as a banker,

13 I'm not going to speak for every banker across

14 the State of Missouri, I think I have an idea

15 this will not be our area that we'll get into.

16 If you do not allow this equity to come

17 into the projects and allow for the lower

18 rents which make this cash flow it won't

19 happen. The only other option is what they

20 are saying, you raise rents. There is no

21 other option. The building costs, production

22 costs are all the same.

23 So, we would hate to see this go away. I

24 can tell you we have projects keyed up in

25 other states. We can only make so many loans



Page 43

1 out of our bank, our capital is only so much.

2 We'll see Oklahoma, we'll see Arkansas.

3 That's where we'll go. Because those are the

4 loans we want to make as a bank.

5 Pure and simple. Keeps our designation

6 of what we do. So I appreciate you guys

7 taking the time to allow us to make these

8 comments and I urge that some of these

9 thoughts get built into the final decision

10 making. (Applause).

11 MS. KIMBALL: Good morning. My name is

12 Cynthia Kimball, C-y-n-t-h-i-a, K-i-m-b-a-l-l.

13 And I am many so blessed and so fortunate to

14 be a resident of McClernon Villas. And I have

15 traveled all around the country, I'm on a

16 fixed income, I'm on social security, and I've

17 spent $800, $900 on rent but I couldn't afford

18 heat and I couldn't afford food.

19 So, when I landed here in Missouri, and

20 found this beautiful apartment being built

21 with the tax credit, I'm just blessed to be

22 here because now I can do some shopping, I can

23 heat my home, and I feel very safe and secure

24 and I now feel like Missouri is going to be my

25 final place to live and stop and enjoy this



Page 44

1 beautiful state.

2 So I would urge you to keep the tax

3 credit going, and I would love to invite the

4 Governor for lunch and I think he'd enjoy

5 seeing McClernon Villas and my home.

6 Thank you very much. (Applause)

7 MR. MUNZINGER: Hi, I'm Jeff Munzinger,

8 M-u-n-z-i-n-g-e-r. I'm a retired business

9 owner here in Springfield, I have never worked

10 in the housing industry, the construction

11 industry or the finance industry. I'm here as

12 a concerned citizen, and for the sake of

13 transparency I'm a candidate for the Missouri

14 legislature.

15 Recently I had the opportunity to visit a

16 grand opening at the McClernon Villas and it

17 was so impressive, so impressive. I know all

18 of us in Missouri want efficient government

19 and in this time today it seems like

20 government is always viewed as a bad thing, we

21 always say we want less government. But there

22 are certain things government can do better

23 than private industry and this is one of

24 those.

25 I got to visit the McClernon Villas



Page 45

1 during the recent grand opening and it was so

2 gratifying to see some of the residents, they

3 were so excited for their new homes and these

4 are not lavish homes. These are modest homes

5 but they are clean, safe and affordable.

6 I met one woman who was so excited she

7 said, "It has a brand new washer and dryer!"

8 She was so excited, she spoke as if she never

9 expected to have that.

10 I hope that we can continue to make

11 housing safe and affordable. Me thoughts have

12 gone to as I was visiting McClernon Villas my

13 thought also went to the movie "It's a

14 Wonderful Life" George Bailey was developing

15 his development called Bailey Park and I

16 remember he talked about the need for clean,

17 affordable and safe housing. He said is that

18 too much to ask? And that is my thought too,

19 is it too much to ask that we help people who

20 can least afford it to get the clean, safe and

21 affordable housing? Thank you so much.

22 (Applause).


24 MR. MICHAEL MEEK: Hello, my name is

25 Michael Meek, M-i-c-h-a-e-l, M-e-e-k. CFO and



Page 46

1 corporate counsel with Meeks Lumber.

2 Meeks Building Centers has been fortunate

3 to be a supplier of building materials for the

4 residential building industry. Over the past

5 25 years Meeks has supplied materials and

6 services for dozens of LIHTC funded projects

7 throughout the State of Missouri. In the last

8 three years we worked on major projects in

9 Bolivar, Lake of the Ozarks, Rolla,

10 Springfield, Webb City and Willard.

11 I can state unequivocally the projects

12 we've been involved with create high quality

13 housing for low income Missourians. The

14 quality of the materials used is consistently

15 superior to what is typically found in low

16 income housing. Some examples are the use of

17 fiber-cement siding, high performance windows

18 and upgraded insulation packages. Since the

19 developer is required to hold and manage the

20 projects for an extended period, they have

21 every incentive to build it right.

22 Furthermore because the private market

23 dictates the economic success or failure of a

24 project, LIHTC developers strive to design

25 attractive communities and include amenities



Page 47

1 that will make the development desirable for

2 tenants over the long term.

3 In addition to supplying material to

4 LIHTC funded projects, Meeks acts as a

5 subcontractor. We install insulation,

6 fireplaces, bath hardware and closet systems

7 and they are subject to MHDC strict rules for

8 subcontractors on LIHTC job sites. E-Verify,

9 prevailing wage and OSHA 10-hour certification

10 ensure that only well-trained professional

11 subcontractors are on the job site and that

12 results in better housing.

13 Lastly the economic impact of LIHTC

14 projects can't be overstated. At Meeks we

15 have numerous employees involved at various

16 stages of construction on LIHTC funded

17 projects. From estimators to yard workers,

18 delivery drivers, product installers, these

19 projects have a direct impact on the

20 pocketbooks of hard working Missourians. As a

21 supplier and subcontractor, Meeks Building

22 Center can attest the economic benefits of the

23 LIHTC program benefit parties up and down the

24 the supply chain, not just the developer.

25 In closing, based on our experience



Page 48

1 working with builders and developers on LIHTC

2 projects in Missouri, Meeks would like to

3 voice strong objection to the elimination of

4 the LIHTC program in Missouri. LIHTC funded

5 projects created high quality housing for low

6 income Missourians and have created countless

7 job for Missourians in the residential

8 construction industry. It would be a real

9 shame for those benefits to be taken away from

10 the people of Missouri. Thank you.

11 (Applause).

12 MR. METZ: Seeing that appears to be the

13 end of the comments, I want to thank everyone

14 for taking the time to come out to the public

15 hearing. As always, your opinion is very

16 important to MHDC and that is why we hold the

17 public hearings.

18 So if you would like to provide written

19 comments or suggestions to the current QAP,

20 the 2018 Draft QAP, we can accept them now or

21 we can accept comments through 4:30 p.m.

22 Monday, December 4th, 2017. Please send

23 written comments and questions if you may have

24 them to Missouri Housing Development

25 Commission, our address is 920 Main Street



Page 49

1 Suite 1400, Kansas City, Missouri, 64105. If

2 you just google MHDC.com, it will come up on

3 your browser with the address and everything.

4 Also please feel free to email us at

5 [email protected].

6 Again, I would like to thank everybody

7 very much for coming to the meeting this

8 morning and this concludes the hearing. Thank

9 you.

10 (Meeting concluded at 12:06 p.m.)

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1

2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

3 I, Linda L. Miller, Certified Court

4 Reporter within and for the State of Missouri,

5 do hereby certify that the foregoing

6 proceedings were taken by me to the best of my

7 ability and thereafter reduced to typewriting

8 under my direction; that I am neither counsel

9 for, related to, nor employed by any of the

10 aforegoing or otherwise interested in the

11 outcome of the action.

12

13

14 ______________________________

15 Linda L. Miller, CCR 1407

16

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Documents

Tab 1 11/30/17 Springfield Public Hearing …MISSOURI HOUSING DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION 11/30/2017 Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES Page 4 1 denotes