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Fluid Phase Equilibria 296 (2010) 2–3

Contents lists available at ScienceDirect

Fluid Phase Equilibria

journa l homepage: www.e lsev ier .com/ locate / f lu id

he essential importance of experimental research and the use of experimentalhermodynamics to the benefit of industry

hristophe Coqueleta, Luis A. Galicia-Lunab, Amir H. Mohammadia, Dominique Richona,∗

MINES ParisTech, CEP/TEP-Centre Energétique et Procédés, 35 Rue Saint Honoré, 77305 Fontainebleau, FranceInstituto Politecnico Nacional, Laboratorio de Termodinamica-Graduados-ESIQIE, Edif. Z, Secc. 6, 1ER Piso, Upalm C.P. 07738, Mexico D.F., Mexico

r t i c l e i n f o

rticle history:eceived 30 March 2010

eceived in revised form 6 April 2010ccepted 6 April 2010vailable online 13 April 2010

eywords:ound table

xperimental thermodynamic propertiesodel validation

. Participants Panel

.1. From University

J. Fernandez (University of Santiago de Compostela, Spain),. Gmehling (University of Oldenburg, Germany), H. InomataTohoku University, Japan), J.N. Jaubert (INPL, France), T.W. deoos (Delft University, The Netherlands), J.P. O’Connell (Univer-ity of Virginia, USA), C. Peters (Delft University, The Netherlands),. Ramjugernath (KwaZulu Natal University, South Africa), F. delio (Universidad Autonoma Metropolitana, Mexico), G. ScalabrinPadova University, Italy), K. Tochigi (Nihon University, Japan)

.2. From Industry

D. Amoros (Rhodia, France), P. Arpentinier (Air Liquide, France),. Baudouin (Prosim, France), K. Fischer (Shell, The Netherlands),. Frenkel (NIST, USA), G. Lauermann (Linde, Germany), F. Montel

TOTAL, France), P. Mougin (IFP, France) and S. Northrop (Exxonobil, USA)

+ All registered participants to colloquiumChairs: Dominique Richon, Luis A. Galicia-Luna, Christophe

oqueletSecretary: Amir H. Mohammadi

∗ Corresponding author. Tel.: +33 1 64 69 49 65; fax: +33 1 64 69 49 65.E-mail addresses: dominique.richon@mines-paristech.fr,

ominique.richon@ensmp.fr (D. Richon).

378-3812/$ – see front matter © 2010 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.oi:10.1016/j.fluid.2010.04.004

The main objective of the round table discussions was to sharefeelings between engineers and researchers from both academyand industry in order to find the best strategy of using all thermo-dynamics skills.

There are many ways of approaching the subject. For examplewe can focus on the question: what is the best way of developing themost convenient process with regards to all specifications relatedto environment, energy saving, economy (investments, operat-ing costs), etc. Unit operations are generally selected consideringthe physical properties and their design is mainly based on cal-culations. However, these calculations need convenient models.Predictive models are not always very accurate, non-predictivemodels require parameters which need to be fitted on experimen-tal data. Nevertheless, top managements of industry ask for veryquick answers from the design engineers and wish to believe onpredictive results. The consequences of such decisions are diffi-cult to quantify, as they will depend on many factors: nature ofcomponents, pressure level, temperature level, concentration lev-els, etc. Consequently, it is a very serious procedure which seemsmainly driven by the fact that top management has decided to savetime and money on this important part of engineering. Industrycomplains that doing experimental measurements at universitylaboratories take too much time. This is true, as each laboratoryhas duties and cannot stop other works to handle immediately theurgent projects of industry. Some measurements need also specific

equipment which takes time to develop. It is clear that reactivityof academic laboratories is far from optimized to allow them toefficiently participate in decision process. At the same time, thereis very little collaboration between experimental laboratories andbetween modeling, experimental and simulation experts.

hase E

a

margins and consequently increase industry benefits.

All of the just mentioned points need to be addressed in the

C. Coquelet et al. / Fluid P

In overall, the following remarks and comments were discussednd agreed:

Experimental work and modeling1. A key point in experimental measurements and modeling is

validation of models.2. Several databanks are available and used in process simulators

like DDB, NIST, DIPPR, Detherm, etc. and are very useful toindustry; they deserve to be enriched in the future with dataof key components.

3. The budget and finance for the measurements are other keypoints. Group contribution models are not accurate enough inmost cases, and therefore generating experimental data is stilla need. Moreover, reliable group contribution methods needmany and judicious accurate data for their development.

4. For some systems and screening purposes, industry does notneed very accurate data. In such cases, only rough data thatcan be obtained with simple equipment are adequat to give anidea; these equipment must be available almost everywherefor quick determinations.

5. To get necessary funds for developing new equipment anddoing excellent measurements, we need international coop-eration providing a better image and increased skills.

6. There are few experimental laboratories in the world. Oneproblem is that many experts will retire soon. Companies sup-port laboratories but the problem is that it is difficult to hirenew experts in the future.

7. The role of molecular simulation should also be considered.The management of companies believes that molecular sim-ulation would cover everything in the next 10 years. Theyare therefore developing molecular simulation departments.It is important to precise the real status of the art con-cerning molecular simulation and provide experimental toolsfor defining interaction potentials and checking simulationsresults.

8. Maybe, it is better for young professors not to work on exper-imental subjects because they may not get a lot of researchpublications at the beginning of their carrier. It is better towork on joint projects to have better publications and carrierprospects.

9. Many researchers prefer to work in industry or somewhereelse because they feel there is no job security in the laborato-ries and they have to deal with many problems (getting funds,management, good students, etc.).

10. Another problem in experimental work is the availability ofthe right apparatus. Sometimes, for any reason the convenientapparatus is not available for a project. For example, some-times only low amounts of chemicals can be handled due tohigh price, high toxicity, etc. Consequently, very often devel-opment of new equipment would be more needed.

11. Sometimes, the time allowed to complete projects by univer-sities is very short and the university cannot generate thesedata at the required time. Moreover, it is difficult for isolatedresearchers to fully estimate the difficulties of new experi-mental works in all of their different aspects. One solution isto have a consortium of laboratories to share/divide/discussthe works in order to respect the deadlines asked by industry.

To share/divide the measurements, we also have to know thecapabilities of laboratories.

12. Time and size of project are also important. Some laboratoriesforget that their data maybe not upscaled and cannot be usedat larger scale.

quilibria 296 (2010) 2–3 3

Teaching13. Students who work on thermodynamics and process model-

ing have better opportunities to find a job in comparison withstudents who work only on experimental subjects. One prob-lem is that they may not find an available laboratory with thenecessary facilities. Industry must help to change this situa-tion.

14. Students should get experimental skills during postgraduatestudies (Master or PhD). In fact, if a student does experimentalwork, he will better understand simple and complex models.

15. Specific modeling can be conveniently learnt and practicedlater when working for specific company.

16. Students who worked only on modeling are not familiarenough with experimental work and data uncertainties toselect pertinent models. Experiments are important to defineorder of magnitude and to feel the difficulties.

Industry and management17. Time is a key point in process design. In effect, we should have

already finished generating data and the modeling of them.18. In addition to experimental measurements and modeling, the

pilot design is another key point before process design.19. A strategy should be proposed to both government and indus-

try in order to reduce the time required for generating data.20. It takes a long time to convince companies to sponsor projects.

This would be easier using a constituted expert panel in thefield.

21. Getting funds is not trivial depending on the region of theworld. For example, Asian and Latin American companies eas-ier support generating experimental data.

22. Another problem is intellectual property. We need a free flowbetween companies and laboratories. Due to intellectual prop-erty problems, the number of published data could drasticallydecrease in the future.

23. Some laboratories have difficulties to get international recog-nition as they mainly work on confidential projects forindustry. On the other hand, funds from industry are essen-tial to allow laboratories surviving. Good compromises haveto be found.

24. Industry wishes to make profit. Company managers wish tosave time and money relying on simulations instead of goodmodels based on good data. This attitude could be changedby showing drastic consequences for processes (millions andeven billion $ losses) as result of bad physical property inputs.

25. In the USA, some research areas are not supported anymorebecause they do not produce new intellectual value anymore.But the industry should be patient because a new research areacan produce the new processes in the future. . .

26. Industry sometimes does not care about accurate input dataas it uses wide safety margins to design processes, leading tothis remark: “We need informative data even not very accu-rate for industry considering the time of the project. The firstimportance is informative data.”

27. Good experimental data in thermodynamics, kinetics, andtransport properties would seriously help reducing safety

frame of a thermodynamicists’ network. This is one of the urgentgoals to be achieved in the near future.