Transcription Episode: August 10, 2021

Tune-In-Tuesday – Transcription Episode: August 10, 2021

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Announcer (00:21):

On today's episode of Tune In Tuesday, we're joined by SHRM President and CEO Johnny C. Taylor, Jr. As he leads a thought-provoking conversation on the importance of company culture, especially with many organizations adjusting their hybrid workplace policies throughout the coming months. Joining the discussion is bestselling author and speaker Steve Gilliland, and president of High Five Performance Inc. Theresa Hummel-Krallinger. But first, your Tune In Tuesday host, Christopher Lopez.

Christopher Lopez (01:01):

Hello and welcome to SHRM's Tune In Tuesday. If you're joining us for the first time, thank you for tuning in. And, if you're returning, as always, welcome back. My name is Christopher Lopez and in today's episode, we are focusing on the importance of company culture in a discussion led by SHRM President and CEO Johnny C. Taylor, Jr. During last month's program, director of the SHRM Knowledge Center Amber Clayton led a panel discussion on the hot topic of the turnover tsunami with Ira Wolfe and Dick Finnegan. In case you missed that episode, I encourage you to watch a replay at any time on this page after this episode is over.


SHRM knows firsthand the importance of the work HR professionals like you are doing around the globe. That's why we want to be your lifelong career partner, and through your membership, you'll receive immediate access to the resources and tools that will support you in your day-to-day role, connecting you to a community of 300,000 plus members across the globe to stay on the leading edge of the profession, creating impact in your workplace and communities. You can rely on SHRM for access to interactive tools, the latest resources and research, professional development, one to one guidance from expert HR knowledge advisors, and so much more. Learn more about each of SHRM's membership offerings and join or renew your membership today.


Now, to the right here, you'll see our chat window where you can communicate with your fellow attendees and toggle to the questions chat to ask our SHRM knowledge advisors questions throughout the show. Just below that window is our polling feature. Let's test it out right now by scanning the QR code on your cell phone camera and answering the question: "Which part of your company culture will you shift in a post-pandemic world?" And, lastly, below the video screen we have announcements and resources related to this episode for you to explore. And, make sure to mark your calendars for the next episode on September 14th.


Now, let's get into today's discussion. As workplaces around the globe are navigating new ways of working, transitioning and strengthening organizational culture is paramount to leading through the changes the world of work will experience in the coming months. SHRM President and CEO Johnny C. Taylor, Jr is here to discuss the impact culture has had on workplaces throughout the pandemic and how to sustain your organizational culture as you experience upcoming change. He is joined by two of SHRM 21's speakers and I cannot wait to hear what they have to say on this crucial topic. Johnny, welcome back to the Tune In Tuesday program.

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Johnny C. Taylor, Jr. (03:50):

Thanks Chris and welcome again to Tune In Tuesday. I know some of you have been faithful participants since the beginning and others of you may have just wondered and wandered upon us and discovered us. But one thing I know is that these monthly sessions have been really illuminating and fun and they've provided a big taste of what SHRM's annual conference and exposition is all about. Now, we're just one month away from SHRM 21, September 9th through the 12th in Las Vegas. And, the SHRM team is ready to deliver an amazing in-person and virtual experience that only the world's largest, most influential HR conference can bring to life. And, if you haven't heard yet, we've just announced that on September 10th, day two, I'll be sitting down with a conversation and - for a conversation with the great Michael Phelps, record-breaking Olympic swimmer. And, I know we're all watching the Olympics right now and that American pride is alive and well. Well, you're going to have a guy who literally changed the books.


Over his 20-year swimming career, he has taken home no less than 23 gold medals and is generally recognized as a humble hero who manages to be both authentic and awe-inspiring. Michael is now a full-time champion for mental health and he's really open about his own battle with depression and suicidal thoughts. He challenges the persistent stigma, negative stigma, I might add, around mental illness, and he believes that success both as a team and as an individual is not just forged by discipline, but by working on a healthy mindset every day. That's the key, the key to tackling obstacles and adversity in our lives and in our careers.


Now, more than ever, HR and business leaders must intentionally create workplaces where employees and employers thrive mentally and emotionally and not simply professionally or physically. Michael joins our lineup of over 140 speakers. I mean, 140 people at SHRM 21! And, I'm so proud to bring you two more of those people today, our own superstars. We're going to be discussing the greatly expanded role of company culture in the post-pandemic world. You see, a lot of companies have slated next month as the deadline to bring their employees back from remote work, and after 18 months, there will certainly be complications and, frankly, troubles as everyone adjusts to the next normal.


Culture. Culture has never, ever, ever been more important or potentially more fragile. So, our guests today will provide insight into leading through changes you'll need to make and how to sustain your company culture. So, I get this amazing opportunity to introduce two of our superstars. Let me start with Steve Gilliland. He's one of the great storytellers of our lives and one of the most in demand and top-rated speakers in the world, and I'm not exaggerating. He also happens to be a very funny guy, right? He's an accomplished author with intriguing and bestselling book titles like Hide Your Goat, Detour, and The Cherry On The Top. Speaking the language of active business leaders, he shares practical lessons that can grow people and their businesses. At Annual, he'll be presenting a mega-session on day two based on one of those books, "The Cherry On Top: How To Add Value To Your People, Your Products and Your Services".


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Now, also with us today is Theresa... You know someone's important when they have a hyphenated last name, right? Theresa Hummel-Krallinger. Right? Another very funny person with a unique take on company culture. Theresa is an Emmy Award-winning comedian... get back! A well-respected senior training professional and a performance consultant. She is masterful on topics of leadership, career management, organizational culture, and workplace communications. And, God, we definitely need some humor in workplace communications today, right? She's been a featured speaker at numerous regional and international conferences and, as I alluded to earlier, she won an Emmy in 2019 for her work on the PBS talk show "Counter Culture". Now, at SHRM 21, Theresa will lead a concurrent session on day two on the theme of Culture Is King: Laying A Strong People Foundation For Business Success.


Listen, I've been really looking forward to this conversation, so it's time to get started. You've heard enough from me. So, I'm going to start with the question to both of you. I'm going to start with you, Theresa, and then I'd like you to answer as well. Workplace culture. It can seem vague and difficult to describe. You know, everyone's talking about culture these days. But we all know where it... What it looks like when we see it, especially when it's not a good one. Do you have a particularly useful way you describe the idea of workplace culture to employees, employers and others? Theresa?

Theresa Hummel-Krallinger (09:25):

I do. And, in fact, when I am coaching my job seekers, this is how I describe it to them.


Okay.


In an organization, what is modeled? It's three things. What is modeled? What is modeled by leaders? So, it's one thing that they say things, but what do you actually watch them do, right?


Right.


So, what do leaders model? The second question is what's rewarded in that organization. What are the behaviors? What are the attributes? Who are the people who are getting promoted? What is it that they do that gets them promoted? And, the third is, what is criticized. What is dis-rewarded? What would I not do if I work in your organization and want to succeed? So, I think those three questions... What's modeled? What's rewarded? What's criticized? Really is a good foundation for understanding organizational culture.


You know, I hadn't thought about that, but I'm telling you, you're right. Succinctly. You... You... When you walk away from an organization and you can answer those three questions, you ultimately do get to the culture, and whether or not that matches what's on the wall, you know, and on that plaque outside

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the offices may or may not matter. But you know culture in that situation. All right, my buddy. What do you say?

Steve Gilliland (10:38):

Well, I think it centers around first and foremost, you know, the values, you know? I think... You know, when you look at a company and you look at their values and what they value. And, of course, you introduced The Cherry On Top, what I'll be doing there at SHRM. But... But for me, it's that collection of values and then there's expectations. I think sometimes, you know, a company's culture is based on a set of expectations that they have within the workforce, and then, best practices.


That's right.


You know? When you go to talk to an employee or you try to... From the outside, you just simply say, you know, this company... You know, this is what they value. This is their core values. This is their guiding principles. And then, this is a set of expectations that they have. You know, the other thing that I find interesting is, you know, that culture helps recruit the talent.


That's right.


So, that's why sometimes, you know, expounding on those things, you know... And, I think for me, again, it just centers around, you know, the core competencies but those guiding principles and the values of a company.


No. I mean, both of you. You take what you both have said and that's it. I mean, you just... You caught it. But it's really hard to capture, I think you'd agree, because everyone wants that textbook definition of culture and... But I thank you. Thank you both for what you've contributed to it. I just love the way you put together a framework for us. Okay. So, I have another question once again for both of you. And, this time, Steve, I'm going to let you tackle it. As businesses have been bringing people back from remote work over the summer, and some of us did start as early as, you know, June, and, you know, right after the Memorial Day. We saw groups coming back and now we're pushing toward Labor Day when a lot of folks are going to come back into the workplace.


Interesting little factoid. 90%... 92%, to be exact, of employers are at least partially already back to work. Okay? 92%. But here's the question. How are the employers who are remaining, who are bringing their people back now, assessing and addressing the impact of the pandemic on workplace culture? What are some of the key changes they are likely seeing from your standpoint, Steve?


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Well, I think first and foremost, when they're bringing employees back, they've got to let them know why. And... And, when I say why, I mean, you know, because... Because a person that has worked remotely, you know, in their mind they're saying, "Hey, this works. You know? Why do I need to come there?". And, I think sometimes you have to look at is... You know, are there some tools? Are there collaborative pieces? Is there more creativity? You know, what's the synergy behind it? And, it's like anything. You know, when you know the why, when you know the reason, you know, you're more likely to come back. So, I think one of the first things they have to do when you're talking about bringing people back is you have to look at that. You also have to look at the workspace itself.


That's right.


You know, when you think of... You know, when you think of safety, you know, they're going to have to look at it like every company, every organization. You know, we encountered it going into a restaurant. We encountered it going into our financial institutions. So, I think this safety issue... Employees are going to want to know, you know, bringing them back remotely, you know, into the workforce, you know, am I going to be safe? Is there going to be flexibility?


Absolutely.


You know? There's so much rigidness, and you know, Johnny, it's something as an HR professional, you know, there are the guidelines. There are the rules. But there's going to have to be some of that flexibility. You know, it's kind of interesting, too, because... And, again, I'm... I don't mean to jump topic.


No.


But when you start to think about remote workers, I serve on the board of a financial institution and one of the things that our board had to address with our CEO and C suite people was the fact that we're going to have to make exceptions, and if we're going to recruit talent, we may recruit it remotely. You know? 25]


It's... It's going to be somebody in Memphis. It's going to be somebody, you know, somewhere else. So, there has to be that flexibility that if we want to recruit even the best people, we may have to be a little more flexible than we have in the past and some of these cultures aren't flexibility, so... And then, the last thing for me would be to redesign the space, and you know, that goes back to the safety thing. They're just going to have to look at the workspace and say to themselves, you know, "do we need to redesign this? Is there a better flow for this? Is... How are we going to do this?".

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So, you know, for me, it's just not one big fell swoop of like, hey, let's bring them back. You know, here's our deadline. They're back.


Right. So, Theresa, Steve gave us a great sort of... The things to watch for. The space and the why, and sort of helping people understand and the assurance that it's a safe place to work. What are the things that you think are key challenges employers are likely seeing as we bring people back into the workplace?


Well, Johnny, it's interesting and I have to smile because this is... This is a juicy topic.


Yes.


I mean, this is something we are all talking about and I think what makes it juicier is we don't have any best practices. Right?


Exactly.


We can't pull that book off the shelf that says, "During a pandemic, these are the things you do."


Exactly.


We just... We don't have it. So, it's... Well, depending on how you look at it, I think it's a really exciting time to be in HR.


Right.


Because companies are looking to us, saying, "Hey. Little help here. What...? You know, what do you guys think?".


Yep. Wanted that seat at the table? Here you are.

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Here it is. You've wanted it, right?


That's right.


Now, welcome! So, I have three clients and it's fascinating as I see their story unfold. So, one client said... And, it goes right to your point about, you know, hey, we work in the office. Our culture is in the office. And, they just said, "You will all be back to work by July."


Yep.


Make it happen. That was it. Client two said, "All right. Everybody's a little uneasy. Let's come back in September. We're going to do Tuesday through Thursday in the office."


Okay.


"Monday and Friday you work it out with your manager." So, it's a little bit of both.


Yes.


"But we really do want you back in the office because that's where we... That's where culture is built, in the office." Right?


Okay. Right.


Company three... And, I love this because he posted it on LinkedIn. He reached out. He said... He reached out to his employees. He said, "Look. You're all nervous, wondering what are we going to do? Well, I'll tell you what we're going to do. You're just going to decide what works best for you. If you work well at home, by all means, continue working from home." And, he said, "For me, I need the separation."


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Page 8 of 23

Right.


"I need to go into the office. That's just who I am." And, he said, "If you work better in the office, we have three offices for you to choose from. Pick one. Go in." And, he said, "Is this the right answer? I don't know." And, he said, "For anybody who's telling you that theirs is the right answer, question it."


Question it.


"Because we don't know."


We don't know.


But he said, "This is what we're going to do." But I'll share this. This is one thing that I see impacting all three companies. Recruiting.


Yes.


Because there are people going... And, I see Steve shaking his head. They're going in for job interviews and they're saying, "What's your...? What's your deal with remote work?"


Yep.


And, the two companies that are saying we still want you to come in either five days or three days a week, there are candidates saying I'm out.


That's right. That's right.


Bad.


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Page 9 of 23

No. No. They... And... And, so, Steve. I'm glad we... I want to... I want to dig into that further because maybe, just maybe... And, this is actually for both of you, but maybe it's okay for people to say I'm out.


Yeah.


I had a CEO say to me... he said, "Listen. I need... I have a 21,000 person organization. The globe has 7.5 Billion people, 330 million of them in the United States, 26 million in my state. I don't need but 21,000 of them and the last thing I want to do is bring people in who think that they should have it their way. This isn't Burger King." So, he really was interesting. He said, "In the process of bringing people into my organization, I am intentional. I'm clear about our culture, and so, some people are going to opt out. That's okay because what that tells me is they wouldn't have enjoyed working here anyway, so coming here might be fine but I wasn't going to keep them. They weren't going to be engaged. They weren't going to be happy. So, I'd rather know on the front end by telling them this is what it means to work in my organization. I have to only get 21,000 people who agree with me."


And so, it was an interesting kind of play, and you know, I will tell you, it first fell kind of oddly on me as an HR person saying, "Well, why don't you try to cast your net wider?" And, he says, "I'm actually okay with that." Steve, react.


Well, first of all, you know, I... You know, we both... You know, Theresa and I both said something about recruitment, but I think right now the competitive landscape is going to be retention.


Yes.


And, I think this is a major, major factor in it. And, you know, again, no disrespect towards anybody that says, "Well, there's 21,000 that I need and, you know, there's... there's millions." And, all these, all these numbers. but here's the thing. There's a lot of people out there, but you know, the key is getting the right person, and when you get the right person and you grow that person and you mentor that person, you want to retain that person. So, I think there's going to be a... The competitive landscape, I think we're going to see, Johnny, change, you know, just a little bit and maybe even a lot. So, you know... So, one of the bigger things is going to be the overriding thing.


Again, when you look at a CEO, that CEO has got to go to the entire C suite.


Yes.

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Page 10 of 23


Has got to go to some of the tenured employees and say this is what we're facing, let's sit down and let's talk this thing through because it's going to get very, very competitive. You know, and it goes back to the thing if somebody says, "Well, you got to get him to the bus stop and you get him on the bus and get him in the right seat."


Yes.


I've always said, "Well, you can get him in the right seat, but if you don't have the right driver, you're not getting there."


That's right.


So, you know, all of these things are an entanglement and it's a wondrous entanglement.


Yeah.


But they all have to fit, and it's going to get really competitive. But recruitment and retention are going to be big, big themes. But, you're right. They've got to connect. Whereas sometimes we're heavy on one, maybe not on the other. Right now, it is competitive.


My gosh. You all are nailing it. Steve, while I have you here, what are, in your opinion, the elements every organization should be strengthening or introducing into their culture right now? What are those one, two, three things that you just absolute.... and, across sectors, geographies, everything... every organization should be strengthening or introducing what into their culture right now?


Well, before I get to the obvious, let me just say they've got to revisit their core values.


That's right.


They must revisit their core value.

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Page 11 of 23


Here here.


And, I talked about... You know, I said bring in the C suite, bring in the tenured people. But I've always said this. I have said this at SHRM National, right?


Mm-hmm (affirmative)-


I've said it. People support what they help create.


Hey.


But you got to ask yourself, you know, are... Are your current goals matching your brand now? So, it's that core value piece. But here's the next one, and this is the one that we all need to address, but we got to get serious about it. And, I'm being sincere when I say, you've got to be serious about diversity and inclusion.


Yes.


It can't be a training initiative. It can't be just a bunch of rhetoric. Yes, I checked the box. It has got to be something that it's inside. It has got to be something that's not an initiative. It becomes a natural... I'm going to use the word again... natural part of the organization, because there's too much lip service, you know, in the whole... You know, people will start saying about the D&I, and I'm thinking, but do you believe that? Do you honestly sincerely believe that?


Yes.


And, I think that's the thing that has to be revisited. I think that element... And, that has to be strengthened, quite frankly, because there's just too much talk.


Yes.

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There's too much talk and not enough action.


Well, let me tell you, Steve... And, I'm... We're going to get to this later on in my questioning because now you... See, you're making me go all over my outline.


I'm sorry.


But I'm going to show you how flexible and agile I am, right? So, really, we're going to go back to that D, E and I thing because I will just put this for you to noodle on, both of you. In some ways, diversity has created a whole new set of problems because it is really hard to manage a diverse workforce. It is... It was always much easier. Right now, we have five generations in the workplace. So, I've got to find benefit plans that make 60 year olds happy and 20 year olds happy. That's hard. So, anyone who says and, the diversity is beautiful that we have five generations there, multi-generational, but it also creates some real complexity. And, I'm going to come back to that, which makes this culture thing even more difficult, this idea of subcultures, right? Within your culture. And... And, so, more to come.


Theresa, speaking of workplace culture, it often involves openly expressed core values. We've talked about them. We at SHRM, for example, have a set of guiding principles that we have worked hard to weave into our daily work, our benefits, our talent management process, all ... I mean, all the way up through the way we provide customer service to all of you wonderful members. What advice do you have for HR professionals who want to do the same thing? How can they hold their leaders within their organizations and their employees accountable to whatever their guiding principles, their values...? Steve just talked about values. Their core values. How do you hold people to those? Because it's easy to put it on a plaque, have it on your screen every day you sign in. But how are you held accountable?


I think it's first and foremost a conversation with your leadership team to ask them, "Do you want me to hold you accountable? And, how best should I do that?"


Yeah.


And, just ask them. "Are these values something that hang on a wall or are these values something you want us to live?" Because you know what most leaders are going to say, right?


Yeah.

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They're going to say, "We want to live these." Right? "We don't want them just hanging on a wall." Okay. Well, then, I am going to be your partner in this to make sure that you live these values and we all do. And then, it's create the conversation for everybody. And, Steve, I love what you were saying about, you know, very often we check a box with these things but we're not really living it. I've seen organizations, and it warms my heart to see it, where core values are part of the conversation.


That's right


Where, if we're having a difficult decision to make, I can reach out and say, "Wait a minute. Are we really living our values here? Listening actively? I feel like some people aren't even listening here. This is a core value." How about fiscally responsible? When we're looking at these choices, fiscally responsible is a core value. How are we living that here? To me, core values become an anchor and a tool and it's organic. It's not this forced poster on a wall. It's just part of how we conduct business.


That's right.


That's... But... But HR needs to be almost given permission to hold folks accountable.


Boy, you just said a lot there. Right? Literally... You know, I'd argue, and where you don't get the permission, just go do it, you know? Because, by the way, that will tell you whether or not you're in the right organization. If you're with a leadership team that does not understand it is part of your job to hold the organization accountable for being true to its stated values, as Steve pointed out, or its guiding principles, then, you know, maybe you're not in the right job. That's a whole different conversation. So, that's another one. Okay.


Yeah.


Right? Steve, you talked about the Turnover Tsunami. You talked about the War for Talent. You may not have used those phrase, but you know, the Great Resignation, everything that they're saying. But the fact of the matter is it's all true. We're seeing this across every industry today. So, how could employers leverage their unique culture, and I specifically say their unique culture because no two are the same. How can they do that to retain and attract... you said it best. You got to recruit and retain... talent.


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Page 14 of 23

I think first and foremost, Johnny, it's going to be a flexible work schedule. I just firmly believe that with all my heart. And, I know I've used the word rigid already, but I think there's going to have to be some flexibility there. I think some other companies and organizations are going to have to look at their development programs. They're going... You know, they're going to maybe have to reshape the power structure. They're maybe going to have to offer more in the way of training and development. You know, again, you can't now just check a box as an initiative. It's got to be something where this employee sees, man, I got a future here and they're giving me this future by doing this.


The other thing I think is lax, you know... And, we all talk about it, but I think there needs to be more positive feedback. I don't think you can just sit there anymore. I think you need to, you know, as the old expression used to be, catch somebody doing something good.




And then, recognize them for it. I think that... Investing in the onboarding process. You know, just... There's certain things like that, you know. When you think of technology, when you think of data, there's going to be things that we kind of, like, put off to the side before that I think now... you know, and I love the word, I love the... I think you said Turnover Tsunami.


Tsunami. That's right.


I love that. Yeah.


That's right.


Because I think if... You know, and again, I could say them again but I won't. But if people are not going to address these things... The development program, just... Just that. You know, I used to say grow yourself and then grow your people.


Right.


And, you know, they've got to grow and develop that talent pool that they have or there will be no retention and that... That turnover is going to continue because a person's going to say, "I have no future here. And they don't care. They don't listen to me. And, I never get a... I never get a pat on the

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Page 15 of 23

back. Nobody ever says to me, "Oh, you did a great job on that. Hey, thanks for the creative thought process on that.' It's just, you come in, you leave. You come in, you leave". So, I just think there's a lot at stake here.


Theresa, what would you add? Because we've heard the things that are so important. Steve's right. You know, increasingly, it's not just an investment in an employee. It's an employee's... Investment in you because if the person leaves, you got to start all over, right? So, got it. Anything else you'd add to that?


I think well-trained managers is a key factor.


Yes.


Very often, and it pains me to see it... Very often, people who are wonderful at what they do, be they... Could be an HR practitioner. It could be an engineer. Could be someone who works in a lab. And, they get promoted into a people management role and it's like, good luck with that. Enjoy. Well, that's a... That's a very different skill set and it's unfair, frankly, to do that. So, in order to maintain the healthy culture that retains talent and attracts talent, you want to have people managers that know what they're doing and that have some comfort with all of the... Like, having a difficult conversation, really embracing the performance management process, saying thank you. Steve, one of my favorite things. It's so easy. It costs you nothing. Thank you. We appreciate you. We're so glad you're on our team.


But having good managers... And, this is at every level, front line, middle managers. Having good managers is key.


And, the executive office. God bless. You know, that's... Theresa, this is an issue that is near and dear to my and SHRM's heart. We... You know, for 70 years, we focused on making people great HR professionals and that's important. In fact, that's the reason we exist. That being said, what we began to see is that people were leaving organizations not because of poor HR.


Not even because they didn't believe in a company's culture. But because of their people managers. I mean, the people leave their managers.


They do.


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Page 16 of 23

Oftentimes. That's overwhelmingly why people leave organizations. So, we said, not to displace great HR professionals, but to help supplement and make their jobs better, we created a new product called The People Manager Qualification. It's an assessment tool online as well as a ... So, it's a diagnostic and assessment tool.




And then, we teach you, depending upon where you are on the continuum, from not particularly good manager to great manager. We say, "Here are the things that will make you better". Because as you both pointed out, this is about recruitment, but it's more importantly about retention. And people managers undermine every... your best recruitment efforts are just undone by a poor people manager. Couple that with the things that Steve talked about, developing people, you know, speaking with your people and saying thank you, showing gratitude. All of those things together will help us deal with the Turnover Tsunami.


Theresa, to that point, tell me, since we're talking about turnover, does turnover, on a positive side, potentially create an opportunity to make changes to your culture? What about when a new CEO arrives? What about a new CTO? You name it. Whomever. CHRO. How can culture change be rolled out and communicated with the least drama in such a way as this becomes a positive opportunity?


Yeah. I... It's... I hope you'll crash my session, Johnny. I don't know if you have that time. But on that Friday, we're going to take a deep dive into a case study where turnover was the reason culture changed.


Ooh.


It's not like people said, "You know what? Let's just create a nice culture." They were in pain.


Yes.


And, I have always said, and to my HR friends out there, if there is pain in the organization, that is your opportunity to drive change because people don't typically change when everything's going well.


That's right.

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Page 17 of 23


Even if they could be better, right? They don't. But when there's pain, people are leaving, things aren't getting done, maybe quality's suffering, maybe the customers aren't as happy as they used to be. Use that pain to drive positive change, probably something that you've had in your back pocket for a while that you would have loved to have done but now people will listen because they want somebody to help them solve the problem. I'm telling you this first case study that I did, and I see it over and over again, they had a over 50% turnover in this company. It would not have survived, Johnny. They would not have survived. But every leader in that organization hurt so much.


Yeah.


That they said, "Let's just do what needs to be done."


Yeah.


And, they created an awesome culture. In two years, they won best place to work. Now, that's pretty...


That's amazing. But it was... You know, so often, we look at turnover as a negative. And, Steve, I see you smiling because... But sometimes that turnover is necessary, to your point, Theresa. The... The case study that you have. Without it, the business would have gone away. So, you look at some businesses and say, "Oh my gosh. They've had 70% turnover." That might have been the thing that saved that company, right?


Yep. Interesting.


I mean, it really, really might have. I remembered just anecdotally. I was at Blockbuster. You all remember that? There once was a company called Blockbuster.


I do.


We had an incredibly impressive management team. They weren't going to change because we were so successful, right?


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Right.


And, within a decade, we weren't. And, what might have helped us was to have turnover, right? To your point, things have gone well, no reason to do anything about it. And then, all of a sudden, your competitors were responding to the rapidly changing world and you lost. I mean, miserably lost. There's no reason that Netflix shouldn't be called Blockbuster today, right? Right? I mean, honestly. We all remember our little blue cards, you know? I heard about it from my grandmother. I was a little young for that. But, seriously.


So, Theresa, before I let you off of this, because I want to go to Steve. But you talked about culture communication. Is it just about showing, telling? I mean, you're a master storyteller, both of you. But... Or, is it a little bit of both? Because people like hearing the stories, but then it's like going to church on Sunday and you come back Monday and you face the reality and it's like, okay, that's... I'm done. I felt great then and now I'm back to reality.


It's a great example that you used, going to church on Sunday, because very often on church, we're hearing things we already know.


Yes.


Right? But when we hear them, we're like, "Oh."


Yeah.


"I needed this reminder." That's how communication should be in an organization. Very often, we're sharing things and we're repeating things.


Yes.


But we need that repetition. We need to share the story or remind folks this is what we're about. This is what we're looking to do. So, come at it from many different angles. Staff briefings, emails that you send out, stuff that you have on your intranet. You know, conversations with departmental leaders. That repetition is really, really important because that drives home what's most important.

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I love it. I love it. Steve?


Yes?


I always give him these interesting questions because he's the provocateur, right? Almost... Almost every workplace has faced some level of employee discord over the past 18 months, even the people... I mean, we talk about Google. They were like best company to work for years and then not so much. Okay? Maybe so. Maybe they're just going through something while people experience the COVID clarity. Who knows, right? But much of the discord over the past 18 months has been spurred by COVID's inequitable impact on people, the nation's racial reckoning, and frankly, a bitter campaign election cycle. How can companies strengthen an authentic culture of inclusion? Because a lot of people are getting the diversity check, but inclusion... Have you seen some unique approaches to encouraging unity and harmony in the workplace that you can share with our audience?


Well, first and foremost, again, I keep using that every time you ask me a question, but first and foremost has got to be to promote pay equity.


Yes.


I mean, let's face it. You know, some organizations... If you were to go to an organization and say, "When's the last time you had a third party do a compensation study for you? When's the last time somebody came in and looked at everything that you're offering to see not just within your own industry...?". Okay. We go back to recruitment. You know, if you're going to recruit talent, you've got to make sure that you're competitive in all these areas. But how about we start with what you have now? How about we start with the employees that you have and ask yourself, you know, is there pay equity? You know, I think it's like... We go back to holidays. Honestly, when's the last time some of the HR groups have looked at a holiday and said, "Okay. Here's our holiday schedules." But are they all inclusive? Do they include all holidays?


You know... You know, there's a lot of... There's just a lot of acknowledgement that we're not seeing, there's a lot of awareness. Some people, because it's not in your... You know, it's not in your frame of mind. You're not acknowledging it. So, I think what has to happen is there has to take a deeper dive down into this. Again, we've used this, I don't want to be redundant, but it's not about checking a box.


That's right.

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Page 20 of 23


And, the other thing: mix up your teams. Sometimes it's kind of like, okay, maybe this person needs to be a part of this group and this person needs to be a part of this group. We had that opportunity with remoteness.


Yes.


Because we were forced to bring those teams together. But here's what it does, Johnny. It gives us perspective.


Yes.


You know, and if a person who knows me has ever heard me speak, they know I'm the guy that says the glass is half full or half empty only and depending on whether you're pouring or drinking.


I love it.


It's... It's all perspective. So, I think... You know, one of the first things... You know, this discord over the last 18 months, I just think that this was there before. Now of a sudden we had all these new things come upon us, but how soon thereafter will we forget about it and say, "Okay. Well, we're back to what we did." And, then the last time you said, "Well, we haven't done that since 2012, we never even looked..." And, analyze.


Yes.


Analyze where you're at on these things because when you take a deeper dive and assess the situation, you might be shocked. You may...You might be shocked at the results that you right now have within your organization.


Let me tell you, no truer words have been spoken. So, listen. I want to give you both about 30 seconds apiece. 30 seconds to tell me and describe the elevator pitch you're... elevator speech. I said pitch, right? Your sessions at SHRM 21. Because I know our listening audience are going to run off and want to see you in your sessions. Steve, what are you going to talk about? 30 seconds.

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Page 21 of 23


All right. The Cherry On Top. What adds value? What adds value to you, your people, your company and the customers? What adds value there? That's The Cherry On Top. Brand new and I got a brand new book with that. The other session is Follow Me. I'll ask two questions and that is this: Do people follow you because they want to, or do people follow you because they have to? And then, another question: could you work for yourself?


Ooh. Ooh.


Wow.


Steve, you're about to make a brother come walk off the stage, right?


Wow.


All right. Theresa. Not to be outdone, tell us about your session.


Oh, my session is Culture Is King: Laying A Strong People Foundation For Business Success. So, it's Friday, September 10th, at 4:00. So, we're going to look at the case study that I talked about earlier.


Yes.


To talk about here's the... Here's all the problems.


Yes.


And, we climbed them mountain, planted the flag and danced around it.


I love it.


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Page 22 of 23

I'm telling you, it was amazing to see and as an HR professional, I feel an obligation to share a success story. So, that's... That's a big part of it. We're also going to look at ideas where HR training and organizational development can influence leaders to create the engaging culture, the things that... Some of the things you can just do. You don't even have to ask permission. Just do them.


Yes.


And, for those that you can't just do, how to influence. But the last thing, and I think this is the thing people like most about the session... Templates and tools that I share.


Yes.


To say, hey, you want to go back to your organization and do it? Please take what I have.


That's right.


Take the tool. Take the templates. Give me a call. I'll walk you through how to do it.


Let me tell you, I can't wait to see Steve and Theresa in Las Vegas. Remember, what goes on in Las Vegas stays in Vegas, so if you're not there in person or virtually, you're going to miss it. I love the fact that practitioners are going to leave there with stuff they can use to make their workplaces better and to add value as HR professionals. Thank you all for joining us for Tune In Tuesday. Steve and Theresa, can't wait to see you in about a month. And now, I'm going to turn this back over to Chris Lopez.


Thank you Johnny, Theresa and Steve, for sharing your crucial insights around culture on the program today. Be sure to add Steve and Theresa's SHRM 21 sessions to your session planner. We've linked them in the episode resources below. This is the last time we will meet before we see one another at SHRM 21. I hope that you've enjoyed tuning in to our program each month and cannot wait to experience SHRM 21 with you all. If you have not registered for the event yet, click the link below in the episode resources. Our team has been working hard to bring this can't miss event to life with top tier speakers, networking opportunities and educational resources, all focused on the need to elevate the profession of HR now more than ever. If you can't make it to the in person event in Las Vegas, you can still join us virtually.


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Thank you again for joining us today for Tune In Tuesday. I look forward to seeing you next month for our next installment featuring Laszlo Bock, former senior vice president of people operations at Google and current co-founder and CEO of Humu, in a conversation with Johnny C. Taylor, Jr. About SHRM's latest book release, "Reset: A Leader's Guide To Work In An Age Of Upheaval". You can pre-order the book using the link below ahead of the September 14th episode. We'll see you next time.

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Transcription Episode: August 10, 2021