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201Test imony - Norman Saul

pe r func to ry shop s teward t r a in ing program?A little book l e t , a no t very good book l e tin unionism fo r our appren t i ce s? It'sr e a l l y no t f i l t e r i ng down to t h i s l e v e l .

THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you.THE WITNESS: I have a book l e t from

ano the r Union w hich I b rough t in cop ies o ffo r you to give you an id ea o f someth ingt h a t some o the r , ano the r pa r t i c u l a r Union,if I cou ld g e t t h e i r l i t e r a t u r e , i s doing ,

THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you verymuch fo r your t e s t imony .

(Applause. )15 THE CHAIRMAN: James Hanson.1617

This i s j u s t a book from ano the rUnion?

18 THE WITNESS: It's a ca ta log o f19 courses from ano the r Union.20 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. It has no2122

bea r ing on th e hea r in g itself.no t going to in tro du ce it.

Okay. I 'm

23 THE WITNESS: Ju s t , t h i s i s wha t ' s2425

happening .r epo r t e r .

I d i dn ' t give it to th e c ou r t

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Test imony - Hanson James2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.3 HAN SON JAM E S , having been duly sworn,4 t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows : .5 THE CHAIRMAN: Good a f te rnoon ,67

Brother James. What Local a re you from?THE WITNESS: Local 45.

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THE CHAIRMAN:o f f i c e r ?

Okay. Are you an

10 THE WITNESS: No, s i r .11 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and proceed12 with your t e s t imony .13 THE WITNESS: To compor t with what141516171819202122232425

Mr. Char le s sa id e a r l i e r on when he cameup and t e s t i f i e d , as a member o f the NewYork City Di s t r i c t Counc i l , I 'm probab ly amember bu t I saw some p r a c t i c e t h a t i sgoing on ro u t in ely in th e Di s t r i c t Counc i lt h a t bothered me very much, i s t h a t th el e ade rsh ip o f the Di s t r i c t Counc i l doesno t r e f l e c t the membership o f the Di s t r i c tCounc i l . Mr. Char le s sa id t h a t th eminor i ty in th e Di s t r i c t Counc i l , we haveno r e p r e s en t a t i on s .

Over two yea r s ago, th e I n t e r n a t i o n a l


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203Test imony - Hanson James

pu t Local 157 under supe rv i s i on and t he rewere t h ree peop le t h a t was removed asbus iness agen t , and one as bus inessmanager . And no minor i ty was pu t in one

6 o f these pos i t i on s . There were qua l i t y7 mino r i t i e s in 157, and many o f the l o ca l s .8 We a l so have a su i t . I would say t h a t9

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f i f t y pe r c en t o f th e s tuden t s in th eschoo l a re mino r i t i e s , and if we have oneminor i ty t e a che r in th e schoo l , t h a t ' s al o t .

We work l i k e everybody, we pay ourdues l i k e everybody. We do eve ry th ingl i k e everybody. And it's r ea lly , r e a l lyun f a i r to the mino r i t i e s in t h i s Loca l andth e Di s t r i c t Counci l t h a t we have no

18 r e p r e s en t a t i on . From Frank Spencer , he1920

came over to 157, I be l i eve t h a t he hadth e i n s i gh t to pu t someone th e re o f

21 minor i ty . He came back and - - Di s t r i c t2223

Counc i l and 608, I would be l i eve aga in , Ihave i n s i gh t to pu t m in or i t ie s in one o f

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those po s i t i o n s .s l ap , in ou r f ace .

He d id no t . It's a

.


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204Test imony - Hanson James

Secondly, you have a Tr i a l Committeewi th in th e Di s t r i c t Counc i l t h a t ' s made up

4 o f bus ines s agen t s . I f you 've go t a56

problem with one o f the bus iness ag en ts ,and you so happen to be brough t up on

7 charges , God help you. They wi l l make89

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sure you wi l l be puni shed . And then youhave Mr. Maurice Leary and Sco t t Anderson ,who a re supposed to be over see ing t h e set h ings . And when you c a l l them to he lpwith your problem, it i s l i k e c r ea t i ngmore problem fo r you r s e l f .

But I'll recommend t h a t th eI n t e rna t i ona l Union, t h a t th e Tr i a lCommittee have somewhat i ndependen toversee ing them on what they a re doing .It's saddens my hea r t when I found ou tt h a t Mr. Mau ric e L ea ry and Sco t t Andersonwas pu t in to supe rv i s i on pos i t i on s tooversee cu r r en t l y r i g h t now wha t ' s going

22 on in th e Tr i a l Commit tee. I s t rong ly232425

be l i e ve a l o t o f people don ' t b el ie v e inthose men.

And what do you do as a member t h a t ,


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205Testimony - Hanson James

if you say someth ing t h a t th e e xe cu tiv ebody doesn ' t l i k e , a r e t r i bu t i on i s goingto be tak ing p l ace on you? I s t rong lybe l i eve a l o t o f people here would l i k e tog e t up and t a lk bu t t hey a re a f r a i d about

7 th e r e t r i bu t i on . I would recommend t h a t89

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th e I n t e rna t i ona l do someth ing about t h a t .We th i nk t he re i s a l o t o f abuse

which i s going on aga in s t th e membershipw ith in the Di s t r i c t Counc i l , a l o t o f

12 abuse . There a re i nd i v i dua l s who d id1314151617

someth ing t h a t i s no t o f s i gn i f i c ancy , andwas puni shed s eve r e l y ; and t he re a rei nd iv idua l s who d id something o fs i gn i f i c ancy , and was given a tap on th ewr i s t . We th i nk it's un f a i r and we want

18 it to s t op . That i s my t es t imony .192021

(Applause . )THE CHAIRMAN:

B i l l Lebo.Thank you very much.

22 W ILL I A M L E B 0 , having been duly sworn,232425

t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows :THE CHAIRMAN: Bro the r Lebo, would

you t ake your h a t of f? What Local a re you


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206Test imony - Will iam Lebo

from?THE WITNESS: 45.THE CHAIRMAN: Local?THE WITNESS: No, I 'm a s t eward .

6 THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead . P roceed7 o the r your t e s t imony .8 THE WITNESS: one o f the w itn esses9

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ment ioned P . J . McGuire . Unfo r tuna t e ly ,ou r Union i s no s t r a nge r to c or ru p t io n .It's been th e h i s t o ry s i nce its onse t . Ashe s a id , P .J . McGuire was removed fromo f f i c e . In 1916, Nat iona l Pre s i den tWill iam Hutchinson removed ou r Di s t r i c tCounc i l o f f i c e r s and r ep l a c ed them wi th

16 Rober t Br ind l e . He was l ocked up in 1921.1718

He was ac tua l l y th e first person in th eU.S. who was l ocked up fo r labo r

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r a cke t e e r i ng .our Union.

So we have t h a t honor in

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Fredd ie Devine was asked by ou rI n t e rna t i ona l Pre s i den t , as you know, in

23 1996. He was conv ic t ed in '9 8 . Pasca l2425

McInnis left ou r Union on th e onse t o fthe - - a t th e end o f th e RICO case in ' 94 ,

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when th e consen t decree was en te red upon.Not a l lowed to run fo r o f f i c e in New YorkCi ty , so we s en t him down to Washingtonand he became th e second Vice -Pre s iden t .

Our Union i s a mess from th e topdown. As I s a id , in ' 96 , we were p l acedunder emergency supe rv i s i on by D ouglas J.

9 McCarron. I'll tell you r i g h t now, I10 opposed t h a t . I d o n ' t th i nk t h e r e ' s a man11

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in t h i s room o r in our Union t h a t opposedit, I 'm su re . Some as much as I d id , b u tnobody more. And fo r the reco rd , d i d n ' tl i k e what they d i d , still to t h i s day.There ' s a l o t t h a t I j u s t f ind veryd i s t a s t e f u l , r i d i cu lou s , and members l o s tt h e i r r i gh t s to vote and so fo r th over it.

We fough t fo r th e r i g h t to vo t e . Wego t our r i g h t to vo te fo r D i s t r i c t Counc i l

20 o f f i c e r s . In 2004, Pete Thomassen was212223

e le cte d in to o f f i c e .I ac tua l l y be l i eved i n Mike. I

t hought he would do a good j ob . He 's a24 smar t guy, young. I r e a l ly d i d n ' t see25 t h i s coming. Maybe I shou ld have . Of

.


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c o u r s e , o u r h i s t o r y j u s t shows it's g o i n g3 t o happen. You guys a r e going t o come4

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down from I n t e r n a t i o n a l , t a k e t h i s o v e r .Whether you l e a v e o r n o t , t h i s j u s t keepsr o l l i n g o v e r . So how do we f i x i t ?

You know, P e t e r Thomassen i n h i sl e t t e r i n t h e New York C i t y C a r p e n t e rmagazine s a i d t h a t we s h o u l d h o l d o u r

10 Counc i l o f f i c e r s a c c o u n t a b l e . How? We1112

c a n ' t do it. A d e l e g a t e body i s m o s t l ycomposed o f members who work f o r t h e

13 D i s t r i c t C o u n c i l . They a r e o f f i c e r s o f1415

l o c a l s .C o u n c i l .

They g e t p a i d by t h e D i s t r i c t

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You want t o f i x t h i s ? Make it sot h a t t h e d e l e g a t e body c a n n o t be p a i d fromt h e D i s t r i c t C o u n c i l , t h a t t h e y c a n no th o l d p o s i t i o n s a s Counc i l employees .Make

21 THE CHAIRMAN: So y o u ' r e s u g g e s t i n g222324

t h a t a member, b e c a u s e he i s a p a i do f f i c i a l o f t h e Union, c a n ' t run f o ro f f i c e ?

25 THE WITNESS: C a n ' t run f o r d e l e g a t e ,


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y e s .3 THE CHAIRMAN: I mean, I d o n ' t even4 u n d e r s t a n d t h e l o g i c o f - -5 THE WITNESS: The l o g i c o f t h a t i s6

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our EST h i r e s and f i r e s . And a st h r o u g h o u t your Union, o u r EST h i r e s andf i r e s t h e employees o f t h e D i s t r i c tCounc i l and t h e Regiona l C o u n c i l and sof o r t h .

11 THE CHAIRMAN: L e t ' s t a k e it one s t e p121314151617

back . Who e l e c t s d e l e g a t e s f o r t h eRegiona l Counci l?

THE WITNESS: Who e l e c t e d ? Themembership.

THE CHAIRMAN: Well , t h e membershipe l e c t s them - - w a i t a m i n u t e . Wai t a

18 m i n u t e . Every member t h a t i s o t h e r w i s e19202122232425

e l i g i b l e under t h e C o n s t i t u t i o n can runf o r any o f f i c e a s d e l e g a t e , r i g h t ?

THE WITNESS: R i g h t .THE CHAIRMAN: So you have a

membership m e e t i n g , a s p e c i a l c a l lm e e t i n g , e v e r y member i s n o t i f i e d , t h e ya r e g o i n g t o have e l e c t i o n o f d e l e g a t e s .


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210Testimony - Will iam Lebo

So a b us in es s a ge nt run s , th e p r e s i d e n t o fth e Local runs as a de lega te , and whatyou ' re s i t t i ng here t e l l i ng me today i st h a t you want to d i senf ranch i se them andth e members from vo t i ng fo r them fo rd eleg ate to r e p r e s en t them a t th e Di s t r i c t

8 Counci l . This does no t make any sense .9

10THE WITNESS: Abso lu t e ly , it makes a

l o t o f sense because - -1112

THE CHAIRMAN:opinion

That it's your

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THE WITNESS: It abso lu t e ly i s myo pin io n, B ro th er . The EST can h i r e o r

15 f i r e and can con t ro l t h e i r vo te s . That i s1617

a problem. You want accoun tab i l i t y?Remove t h a t . I - - t h a t wi l l give you

18 o the rwi se , you 've go t nonsense . You 're1920212223

j u s t s tonewal led . We've been around. Allr i gh t ?

The o the r problem we have i s c i t yTHE CHAIRMAN: Want to tu rn your

ce l lphones o f f , p l ease?24 THE WITNESS: - - has been our25 out -o f -work list. Now, we were taken over


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by t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l , t h e IRO, t h e y a l lcame up w i t h an o u t - o f - w o r k list which haschanged o v e r a p e r i o d o f t i m e .

Now, I was t o l d t h a t it i s a l m o s ti m p o s s i b l e t o c o rr u p t t h i s work list t h eway it s t a n d s . But now I r e a d in t h ei n d i c t m e n t , in t h i s 90-page , 2 9 - c o u n ti n d i c t m e n t , t h a t it i n d e e d wasm a n i p u l a t e d . Now, t h a t ' s if you choose t o

11 b e l i e v e t h e i n d i c t m e n t . I d o n ' t .12131415161718

Now, if t h e y can m a n i p u l a t e t h eo u t - o f - w o r k list t o make s u r e c e r t a i ns t e w a r d s g o t p la c e d on c e r t a i n j o b s t h a twere c o n t r o l l e d by c e r t a i n p e o p l e , w e l lt h e n , t o me, t h a t i s n o t i n c o r r u p t i b l e .You have an enormous problem w i t h t h i so u t - o f - w o r k list, b e c a u s e o b v i o u s l y , it 's

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n o t f a i r t o t h e membership.working r i g h t .

It's n o t

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We have f i x e d - - if t h i s i n d i c t m e n tgoes t h r o u g h and e v e r y t h i n g i s found t o b e

23 t r u e in it, t h i s - - it d i d n ' t work. So2425

it's going t o have t o b e l o o k e d a t andf i g u r e d o u t how t h i s can change so it - - I


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mean, I know fo r a f a c t t h a t ce r t a i nqua l i f i c a t i o n s were asked fo r on ce r t a i njobs , and t h a t ' s how it was manipu la ted ince r t a in ways, bu t obvious ly , you gent lemenhave a job on your hands, okay?

I f i ndeed , t h i s i nd i c tmen t goest h rough , and if indeed the se gent lemen a reconv ic t ed , I hope t h a t our Council, ou ri n te rn a ti on a l w i ll f i l e a c i v i l s u i t tog e t these monies back fo r th e membership,aga in s t a l l pa r t i e s .

Steward t r a d i ng . We do have problems tewards , th e way th e system works r i g h tnow. Now, I went th rough a l l thet r a in ing . A l o t o f most o f it i s very

17 good. The only problem I see i s t h a t1819202122

s t ewards a re coming ou t on th e list andt hey a re no t t hey don ' t know ourj u r i sd i c t i on s . We're l o s i ng ce r t a i n t ypesof work to d i f f e r e n t t r ade s ; fo r example,th e g laze rs have been doing a l o t o f our

23 pa r t i t i on work. I d i dn ' t see a g laze r2425

un t i l th e l a s t couple o f yea r s cu t t i ngmeta l pa r t i t i o n s . Usua l ly we do t h a t .


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Testimony - Will iam Lebo2

3

They w i l l come and p u t t h e g l a s s i n .a r e g l a z e r s .

They

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So I t h i n k we - - t h e s c h o o l needs t os e t up a j u r i s d i c t i o n a l a s p e c t t o o u rt r a d e s f o r o u r s e l v e s .

The o n l y way any o f t h i s i s going t og e t f i x e d i s t o p u t i n h o n e s t - - and it'sn o t e a s y t o f i n d - - h o n e s t p e o p l e t h a tc a r e a b o u t t h e guys t h a t b r e a k t h e i r a s s e se v e r y day o u t on t h e j o b , men and womenwho r i s k t h e i r l i v e s , and we do, e v e r yday, t o make a l i v i n g f o r o u r s e l v e s and

14 our f a m i l i e s . Good l u c k w it h t h a t .15161718

I ' m g o i n g t o b e , you know - - and j u s ta l a s t t h o u g h t , New York C i t y ' s p r o b a b l your l a s t r e a l s t r o n g h o l d a s f a r a s I ' mc o nc e r n ed , a s f a r a s our Union men and

19 women a s a Union tow n. One o f t h e l a s t

l o n g e r .

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s t r o n g h o l d s i s New York C i t y .I f we l o s e t h i s , you know, I r e a l l y

c a n ' t - - I s e e o u r Union d ec ay in g o v e r t h el a s t t e n y e a r s r a p i d l y and from what I ' v er e a d , it's been l o n g e r t h a n t h a t , f a r

You need t o do someth ing a b o u t


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it.As I s a i d , t h e l a s t t r u s t e e s h i p

imposed, I was a hundred p e r c e n t a g a in s t5 it. You know what , t h i s t ime? I f you6 t h i n k you can f i x it, f i x it. S t a y a s789

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l o n g a s you need . Because we o b v i o u s l yc a n ' t do it o u r s e l v e s .

This whole t h i n g - - my God, one o ft h e b i g t h i n g s I r e a d i n t h e p a p e r , and Ig e t b u s t e d - - g e t my b a l l s b u s t e d on j o b sa l l t h e t ime by some o f t h e o t h e r t r a d e s ,k id d i n g l y , b u t it's n o t funny; and I f e e ls o r r y f o r t h e s e p e o p l e 's f a m i l i e s t h a twent t h r o u g h t h i s , and - - b u t t o have iti n our C ouncil and t o have o f f i c e r s t h e r enow, men t h a t I a c t u a l l y do r e s p e c t ,s i t t i n g around , "Oh, I d i d n ' t know it was

19 going o n , " b u l l s h i t . I ' m s o r r y . There20 isn't - - if you work w i t h t h e man, you2122

knew he was, what he was d o i n g .rumors were o u t on t h e s t r e e t s .

The

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I f t h e y g o t o u t on t h e s t r e e t s , youknow damn w e l l p eo p l e t h a t worked w i t hthem knew a b o u t it.


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215Test imony - Wi11iam Lebo

And 1a s t , I go t to say to you, I usedto - - d i dn ' t used to ask me what I d id fo ra 1 iv ing . A1ways to1d them I was a Union

5 ca rpen t e r . Today, I say I 'm a ca rpen te r .67

(App1ause. )THE CHAIRMAN: You know, fo r your

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e di f ic a t io n , th a t New York i s th e 1a s ts t rongho1d o f unionism in th e count ry

THE WITNESS: I sa id I be1ieve .THE CHAIRMAN: - - I 'm g1ad you

be1ieve t h a t because if you r anked them interms of Union dens i t y , meaning theca rpen t e r s Union wou1dn ' t even top , in th etop ten o r so .

16 THE WITNESS: There ' s a h is to ry in1718

t h e r e , I don ' t know how f ami1 ia r a re youwith the h i s to ry .

19 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.20 A VOICE: Cou1d you r ep ea t t h a t 1 a s t2122232425

s t a t emen t , p1ease?THE CHAIRMAN: I sa id in terms o f

Union market sha re , and you 100k a t c i t i e sth roughout America, t h a t New York by anymeans i s no t number one in terms of marke t


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sha re , th e ca rpen te r s Union, in th ecoun t ry . We have c i t i e s l i k e S t . Louist h a t still con t ro l 98 pe rcen t o f the

5 r e s i d en t i a l . In clu din g th e commercial .6789

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Chicago , San Franc i s co , Honolu lu , you cango on , A nc ho ra ge , Sea t t l e , Washington .A ll in te rms o f marke t dens i ty and marke tshare in th e c arp en te rs Union.

We're going to t ake about ate n-m in ute b re ak and then we ' l l come back.

(Recess t aken . )13 THE CHAIRMAN: I f everybody wi l l come14151617181920

in , we ' l l ge t s t a r t ed aga in .Can we h av e e ve ry bo dy t ake a s e a t ,

p lea se .(A pause in th e p roceed ings . )THE CHAIRMAN: Anthony Curc io .

Anthony in th e room? Anthony Curc io?Raymond Harvey? Raymond?

21 A N T H 0 N Y C U R C I 0 , having been duly22 sworn , t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows :232425

THE CHAIRMAN:Bro the r .

THE WITNESS:

Good a f te rnoon ,

Good a f te rnoon . Loca l


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217Test imony - Anthony Curcio

2307. Member s i nce 1984.THE CHAIRMAN: Proceed .THE WITNESS: F i r s t th i ng I 'm l i k e to

say i s , I 'm qu i t e angry w e've begun going6 th rough t h i s once again . Like I s a i d ,7

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I ' ve been a member s i nce 1984, and itseems l i k e j u s t about everybody has beencharged and th e Di s t r i c t Counc i l t h i s t imehas go tten ou t o f hand, has gone ou t under

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l e s s th an h on ora ble cond i t ions .problem.

Tha t ' s a

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With say ing t h a t , I 'm glad t h a t youa re here to t r y and ge t us back on th er i gh t t r ack bu t I do b el ie v e in th e end wedo need to ge t our own Di s t r i c t Counc i l .We do no t need to be jo i ned with ano therDi s t r i c t Counc i l o r be overseen fo r a long

19 t ime. I th i nk we can ge t it r i g h t . I20212223

don ' t know what a l l th e answers a re bu t Ido th i nk t h a t we do have some changes t h a td e f i n i t e l y need to be made, obvious ly .

Cu r ren t system i s no t working , as we24 know. I th i nk - - from what I ' v e seen over25 th e t ime , I th ink it's been an o ld b oy 's


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c lub . You c an ' t tell me with all th erumors t h a t many members have a l r eadys a i d , so I 'm no t s ay in g a ny th in gd i f f e r e n t , wi th all th e rumors t h a t havebeen going around , over th e yea r s o f whatwas going on in th e Di s t r i c t Counc i l , wason th e s t r e e t , and I ha te to say it, youknow, bu t t h a t ' s th e way we ge t a l o t o four in fo rmat ion because they a re no t , a tt imes , re p or t s a re no t coming as theyshould b e.

As f a r as the d rugs , t h e r e ' s th i ngsgoing wrong th at r e al ly shou ld be done

15 r i gh t . The gene ra l membership a r e , as you16171819

see by th e t u r nou t in t h i s room, it'sp re t t y embar rass ing , if you ask me.be l i eve ou r membership shou ld be wel lin formed and a l so be pa r t i c i p a t i ng in

I

202122232425

making t h i s Union s t r onge r in th e yea rs tocome.

But with what h ap pe ne d to th eDi s t r i c t Counc i l , th e membership t h a t ' she re , t h e r e ' s no t t h a t many people he re .We have 25,000 members I t h i nk , roughly

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about , and I t hought it r e a l l y shou ld bes t and ing room only he re , with thoseba r r i e r s ou t s i de be ing f u l l to ge t i n to

5 t h i s room, and it's no t . So I 'm a little6

7

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upse t with t h a t myse l f on it.With th e rumors , as f a r as doing th e

d rugs , t h a t ' s been wel l known, I mean,gene ra l membership knew what was going on.Qui te f r ank l y , I d i dn ' t vote fo r him o r

11 h is t i c ke t th e l a s t t ime. There a r e , I121314151617

th ink qu i t e a few o the r t h ings .I have a hard t ime be l i e v i ng t h a t th e

men who worked a longs ide him and ran onh is t i c ke t and worked - - worked a longs idehim and he lped make h is r u l e s t h a t th eDi s t r i c t Counc i l had, d id no t know what

18 was going on. I had a f r i end o f mine1920

who 's a l abor l awyer up in th e EmpireCounc i l , and I recen t ly was a t a pa r t y

21 with him. He t o ld me it was wel l known,22232425

qu i t e hones t l y .It was qu i t e a joke , a c t u a l l y , being

up t he re a t meet ings and speak ing , th eman's jaws went a hundred miles an hour .


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Tha t ' s j u s t one o f th e th i ngs you note3 when somebody ' s doing t h a t . Tha t ' s what4 he was doing. So t h a t ' s one o f the th i ngs5

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t h a t needs improving.I t h i nk , one o f th e b ig changes t h a t

we need to make i s , I th i nk we need to g e tth e membership more invo lved , as f a r as

9 vot ing fo r our b us in es s a ge nts . Only1011121314

be ing h i red and f i r ed by th e Di s t r i c tCounci l doesn ' t seem to work because t h e i rf ea r i s to th e - - i s to the boss , th e EST,th e guys t h a t a re going to f i r e them.It's no t to the membership t h a t cou ld vote

15 them ou t . I f t h e i r l oya l t y i s to th e EST16171819202122232425

and doing what he wants , I 'm no t say inga l l o f them do, bu t t h e r e ' s a gene ra lt endency , if somebody i s t ak ing ca re o fyou, you know, it's human n atu re , y ou 'regoing to cover your own bu t t . And I th i nkthey have to answer to the membership.They might th i nk tw ice abou t doing some o fth e th i ngs t h a t th e membership don ' t want .

I th i nk t h a t a l so goes , and I hea rdyou say be fo r e , when th e gent leman was up


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h e r e s a y i n g t h a t he d o e s n ' t b e l i e v e t h a tb u s i n e s s a g e n t s s h o u l d b e , o r C o u n c i lmembers s h o u l d b e, a s f a r a s t h e d e l e g a t e

5 b o a r d , o r each t h e E b o a r d . I d i s a g r e e6 w i t h you w h o l e h e a r t e d l y . I t h i n k we g e t7

8

more membership i n v o l v e d by l i m i t i n gt h e y a l r e a d y have t h e i r p o s i t i o n i n t h e

9

10Union.Union.

L e t them do t h e i r j o b f o r t h eL e t t h e membership be r e p r e s e n t e d

11 on t h e E b o a r d s . I d o n ' t t h i n k a b u s i n e s s121314151617

a g e n t o r anybody b e i n g p a i d by t h e LocalUnion a s f a r a s , i n t h a t c a p a c i t y , w i t ht h e D i s t r i c t C o u nc i l , s h ou ld be on t h e Eb o a r d o r s h o u l d be on t h e D i s t r i c tC o u n c i l .

It's a l l checks and b a l a n c e s ,18 gent lemen. I f you have more members1920212223

i n v o l v e d and t h e y have t o answer t o t h emembership, g e n e r a l membership, r a t h e rt h a n answer ing t o one o r tw o guys r u n n i n gt h e D i s t r i c t C o u n c i l o r r u n n i n g t h e L o c a l ,if it's t h e E b o a r d , it j u s t makes it

2425

h a r d e r f o r t h i n g s t o go wrong.makes common s e n s e t o me.

It j u s t


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Test imony - Anthony Curcio2 You be l i eve someth ing d i f f e r e n t . I34567

th i nk if you po l l e d th e membership, you 'dge t , nine tim es ou t o f t en , t hey don ' twant th e bus iness agen t runn ing th e Eboard , they don ' t want t h e i r bus inessagen t as de lega te s . Let th e membership do

8 it. The membership wi l l have more i d e a s ,9

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a more va r i e ty of i dea s , which I th i nk i sg rea t . Democracy i s what b u i l t t h i scount ry and t h a t ' s where we need to begoing. We don ' t need to c lo se it down bye lim i na tin g v o te s. Voting fo r ou rbus ines s agen ts should be a r i g h t to be int h i s Union. We l o s t t h a t many yea r s ago,l a s t t ime it was taken over .

Another t h i ng , I mean, with th eind ic tmen t t h a t went down, it was about

19 cash companies. I b rough t it up in my202122232425

Local Union. It's common knowledge t h a tit happens . I 'm su re it happens in o the rs t a t e s , and it's, you know, you ' r e goingto ge t greedy owners t h a t want to makemore money, j u s t commonplace. And thenyou have people who a re l ook ing to l i n e


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Test imony - Anthony Curcio23

t h e i r pocke t s .t h a t e lement .

So you ' re going to have

4 But what we need to do i s t r y and5 e l imina te t h a t . I brought it up more than67

once in my Local Union, and I was p r e t t ymuch t rapped and was p re t t y much t o ld I

8 was going to be ou t o f work. I mean, I9 named a couple o f - - "it's common

10 knowledge," membership s a i d . You know11

1213141516

what , Ray, you j u s t sa id someth ingeverybody e l s e wanted to bu t was a f r a i d tosay .

THE CHAIRMAN: Everybody knows it.THE WITNESS: We a l l know what i s

going on, we know th e companies t h a t a re17 doing it, th e Union. I hea rd t h a t a t18 work. Okay.19202122

Never d id it. Don ' t want to do it.It's j u s t common knowledge. I f I know it,everybody e l s e must know it. I 'm nob i gge r , you know, name in t h i s Union than

23 anybody e l s e . I 'm j u s t l i k e anybody e l s e ,2425

so it does happen . Anybody t e l l i ng youit's no t happening , it's j u s t t ry in g to


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keep it under th e robe , you know. Underth e c a rpe t o r whatever you want to c a l lit. And it does happen .

Another th ing I want to t a lk about i s6 th e c i v i l s u i t . I hope we do pursue7

8

ge t t i ng every n i cke l , dime t h a t i s foundt h a t they have s to l en from u s , and

9 r ep l aced . I mean, t he r e ' s mi l l i on s o f10 do l l a r s t h a t have been robb ed from our11 bene f i t funds. This c i t y i s see ing one o f1213141516

th e b igge s t cons t r uc t i on booms in qu i t e along t ime he re . And I was shocked to f indou t when I read our pens ion r e po r t s t h a twe still l o s t money on our pens ion fund.

I f we c a n ' t make money in t h a t t ime ,17 t hen t h e r e ' s someth ing wrong. Then you1819202122232425

f ind ou t - - then we come up in August , wehave an i nd i c tmen t t h a t came down wi th allth e mil l ions o f do l l a r s o f money t h a t ' sbeen miss ing , t h a t has been robb ed fromou r bene f i t funds. Well , gene ra l l y ,t h a t ' s a good p la ce to s t a r t to look fo rit because I don ' t know how peoplecou ldn ' t make money in th e boom t h a t we


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Test imony - Anthony Curcio2 j u s t had. We might as we l l j u s t pack up3 th e shop now. And our pens ion fund i s45

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going to run ou t .There ' s someth ing ' s go t to be f i xed

t h e r e , because we j u s t went th rough ar eco rd -b reak ing cons t r uc t i on boom, andyes , we d id have a re ce ss io n b u t I 'mt a l k i ng about th e y ea r be fore th e

10 r ecess ion h i t . We still l o s t money on ou r111213141516171819202122232425

pens ion fund and t h a t ' s r i d i cu lou s , ande spec i a l l y with th e monies t h a t we werepu t t i ng in t he re .

I - - maybe I'll give you someques t i ons , you f ind ou t some answers fo ru s , and maybe Frank Spencer o r whoevercame back to u s , qu i t e hones t l y I 'mshocked t h at h e 's no t he re o r somebody'sno t here from Di s t r i c t Counc i l t h a t cou lds tand up and ask th e q ue stio ns because asa member o f t h i s Union whose been qu i t ehones t ly screwed once aga in , I th ink wehave a l o t o f ques t i ons t h a t need to beanswered by th e members o f t h i s Di s t r i c tCounc i l t h a t have been running t h i s , Mike


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Forde , Pe te Thomassen, who have been - -hopefu l ly you can f ind ou t and ge t back tous , have somebody ge t back to u s , some o fthe the se ques t i ons , some o f the se answersyou can g e t back to us as soon aspos s i b l e , because a re rumors t h a t a re

8 going around th e job s i t e s . Qui te9

10hones t l y , I'd r a t h e r go to th e ho r s e s 'mouth - -

11 THE CHAIRMAN: You keep t ak ing o f f a12 hundred miles an hour . Slow down.13 THE WITNESS: Okay. Qui te hone s t l y ,14 l i k e I s a i d , t h ese are some o f th e rumors15 going on around th e job s i t e . Some o f th e16171819202122232425

th i ngs t h a t t hey a re say ing i s going tohappen , I don ' t know, I don ' t have ananswer , bu t maybe one o f you gent lemencou ld f ind ou t from us what happened , andge t back to us with t h ese answers qu i t et imely because everybody wonders exac t lywha t ' s going to happen with t h e i rl i v e l i hood .

Number one i s th e re t i r emen t age .We've hea rd rumors t h a t fo r yea r s , th e


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I n t e r n a t i o n a l wanted us t o r a i s e o r3 r e t i r e m e n t a g e . I d o n ' t know if t h a t ' s4

5

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t r u e o r n o t . Are t h e y going t o r a i s e o u rr e t i r e m e n t age? I d o n ' t b e l i e v e t h e ys h o u l d .

Medic al c ha ng e, I w a s n ' t h e r e - -8

9

THE CHAIRMAN:t o slow down a g a i n .

Y o u ' r e g oi n g t o have

10 THE WITNESS: S u r e . Medica l c h a n g e s .11 I w a s n ' t h e r e t h i s morning. I worked l a s t1213

n i g h t , I ' m going t o work t o n i g h t , sob u t I mean, I d i d n ' t h e a r what t h e

14 a c c o u n t a n t s a i d . I ' m s u r e members c o u l d15161718192021

tell u s , what i s t h e f i n a n c i a l s t a t u s o four m e d i c a l f u n d s , a l l o u r f u n d s , q u i t eh o n e s t l y . Are we going t o be l i k e t h el a s t t ime we were t a k e n o v e r , a r e we goingt o l o s e e y e g la s s , o r a r e we going t o l o s ed e n t a l o r d i f f e r e n t t h i n g s t h a t comealong? I t h i n k we need t o know t h i s . We

2223

need t o be in formed.August - -

T h i s happened i n

24 THE CHAIRMAN: Hold it. We d o n ' t - -25 I ' m going t o make a s t a t e m e n t . I u s u a l l y


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don ' t do t h i s . But it bo the r s me3 immensely. Everybody t a l k s abou t l a s t4

5

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t ime th e I n t e rna t i ona l took over , t h i sha ppene d and t h a t happened.

Well , I happened to be on th ecommit tee l a s t t ime t h a t pu t the Counc i lin supe rv i s i on , when t h i s Counc i l wasbeing robbed o f about $35 mil l ion annual lyby unsavory peop le , th e bene f i t s werebeing given ou t by th en , the EST, FreddyDevine, as if t hey were candy on candycanes on th e s t r e e t co rne r and he wasS an ta C lau s. Every t ime an e l ec t i on wouldcome up. Double checks fo r Chr i s tmas ,c r ad l e - t o - de a t h hea l thca re , pens ionbene f i t i nc rea se s .

When we came in here th e l a s t t ime itwas under supe rv i s i on , you had f ivehundred mil l ion do l l a r s o f unfunded

21 l i a b i l i t i e s . The hea l thca re was22232425

c e r t i f i a b l y broke , so they were movingmoney a r b i t r a r i l y , which was t o t a l l yi l l e g a l , from th e pens ion fund to shore upthe hea l thca re fund, to g e t over th e

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229Testimony - Anthony Curcio

e l ec t i on process .Well , l e t me tell you, t he re were

some th i ngs t h a t were changed , because ifit wasn ' t , t h i s whole th i ng would havebeen comple te ly bus t ed , broke , and ou t o fbus i ne s s .

So when we t a lk about " the l a s t t imeyou guys came i n , " you 'd be t t e r bethankfu l we came in o r you wouldn ' tprobab ly have any pens ion t oday , youp robab ly , ce r t a i n l y wou ldn ' t have anyhea l t hc a r e .

So I want you to go back and r e sea rch15 the f a c t s because I ' v e r e sea rched them. I16 was on th e he aring pane l . I unders tand1718

th e hundreds o f m ill io ns o f do l l a r s t h a twere being wasted here over a pe r iod o f a

19 decade . So I mean, we can sit and I'll202122

debate t h a t with you a f t e r th e hea r ing allday l ong . And it ain't "you guys" t h a td id t h a t . It was th e admin i s t ra t ion t h a t

23 we took ou t t h a t d id t h a t . So let's ge t2425

our f a c t s s t r a i gh t be fore we t a lk about"you guys a t th e In t e rna t i ona l . "


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230Test imony - Anthony CurcioAnd t h a t ' s exac t1y what we ' re t r y i ng

to do now, i s make t h i s Counci1 wh01e.Your con t rac to rs owe t h i s Counci1 money,th ro ug h y ou r pens ion . We're going to t r yand c011ec t in every means poss ib1e we can

7 c011ec t . I f somebody pi1fe red funds ou t8 o f t h i s , we ' re going to t r y and c011ec t9 them. So t h a t ' s us guys t r y i ng to do th e

10 r i g h t t h ing . So 1 e t g e t t h is s tr a ig h t.11

121314

We're no t the bad guys. We're no t here tot r y to j eopard ize your emp10yment, yourpens ion , your hea1 thca re . We're t r y i ng toas su re t h a t you have them now and in th e

15 fu tu re . So 1e t ' s g e t t h a t rea1 c1ea r .16171819

THE WITNESS: No prob1em. Maybe youmisunder s tood th e way I was p hra sin g theques t ion . My ques t ion was, the 1 a s t t imeyou guys were here , t hese a re changes t h a t

20 were i n s t i t u t e d . I 'm j u s t wonder ing . I 'm2122

n ot say ing t h a t you guys a re doinganyth ing to cause t h i s fo r happening , o r

23 what was your reason to do it. I 'm j u s t2425

say ing i s , it going to happen again .Tha t ' s a ques t ion t h a t I wou1d 1 ike to be


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231Testimony - Anthony Curcio

answered . Did no t mean any th ing towardsyou guys t h a t you were s t e a l i ng

4 THE CHAIRMAN: The re sponse to567

t h a t - - F ra nk S pe nc er i s down a lmos t everyday on the Di s t r i c t Counc i l , you cance r t a i n l y con t a c t him t h e r e , and he ' s

8 ce r t a i n l y here in th e room t oday . You can9

10probab ly ask him ques t ion s a f t e r you ' r ef in i shed t e s t i f y i n g .

11 THE WITNESS: Tha t ' s f i n e . I 'm j u s t1213141516171819

t a l k ing as th e gene ra l membership,any th ing you can ge t ou t to the gene ra lmembership, because aim su re it'severybody in t h i s Di s t r i c t Counc i l t h a twould l i k e to know the answers .

(Applause. )THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.THE WITNESS: A l a s t q ue st io n b efo re

20 I l eave t h i s . I would l i k e to know if2122232425

a ny body wou ld be man enough to s tand up int h i s Di s t r i c t Counc i l t h a t ' s been a longwith Mike Forde , how come t hey d id no t ,over all th ese y ea rs , nobody s tood up andsa id noth ing to him o r to th e


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232Test imony - 01ga Agui

I n t e r n a t i o n a 1 o r if it was done , no onecame i n t o s t o p t h i s ? T h a t ' s what I ' d

4 1 i k e t o know. Thank you.5 THE CHAIRMAN: 01ga A gu i.6 o L G A A G U I , h a v i n g been du1y sworn,7 t e s t i f i e d a s f0110ws:89

THE WITNESS:THE CHAIRMAN:

Good a f t e r n o o n .Good a f t e r n o o n . Cou1d

10 you t e 1 1 us what Loca1 y o u ' r e from?11 THE WITNESS: I ' m from 608. I wou1d1213141516171819202122232425

j u s t 1 i k e t o s t a r t by s a y i n g t h a t I s t i 1 1have a b o u t a month b e f o r e I become amechanic , so I ' m s t i 1 1 an a p p r e n t i c e . AndI say t h i s o u t o f r e s p e c t f o r everybodyh e r e who has been h e r e f o r so many y e a r s .But w i t h t h a t s a i d , I s t i 1 1 pay my duesand I pay a s s e s s m e n t s and I have atreme nd ou s 1 0ve f o r t h e Labor Union andI ' m v e r y p r o u d o f b e i n g a Union c a r p e n t e ri n New York C i t y .

So w i t h t h a t s a i d , i n t h e 1 a s t f o u ry e a r s , I ' v e k i n d o f j u s t s a t back ando b s e r v e d how t h i s Union works, and I ' mj u s t going t o h ig h 1 ig h t some o f my


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233Test imony - Olga Agui

o b s e r v a t i o n s and c o n c e r n s a s it p e r t a i n st o t h e h e a ri n g s t o d a y a s we move f o r w a r don whether o r n o t w e ' r e going t o haves u p e r v i s i o n i n t h e f u t u r e .

The first t h i n g i s t h a t t h e v e r yfirst day t h a t I j o i n e d t h e Union, it wasa Union m e e t i n g a t 608, and Mike Forde wass p e a k i n g t h e r e , b e c a u s e he was r u n n i n g f o rEST. And I have t o say t h a t came a c r o s sa s v e r y c h a r i s m a t i c and t h e few t i m e s i ni n t e r a c t i o n s t h a t I ' v e had w i t h MikeF o r d e , he was v e r y f r i e n d l y and v e r yp l e a s a n t t o me.

So w i t h t h a t s a i d , t h e l a s te l e c t i o n s , I l e n t my s u p p o r t t o t h e U n i t yTeam. This d e s p i t e t h e f a c t t h a t t h e r ewas a l o t o f rumors - - he was p l a g u e d byrumors t h a t he was u si n g c o c a i n e . And a sa s u p p o r t e r , I g o t i n t o a l o t o f argumentsa t t h e j o b s i t e s b e c a u s e I p e r s o n a l l y d i dn o t b e l i e v e t h i s .

So on August 9 t h , when you happenedt o r e a d t h e newspapers and t h e l e a d e r o ft h e Union t e s t e d p o s i t i v e f o r c o c a i n e , you


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can imagine how d i shea r t en ing t h a t was and3 d i sappo in t i ng . And immedia te ly , t h a t456789

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121314151617

di sappo in tment tu rned i n to a l o t o f angerbecause my first ques t ion as a Unionmember, e spec i a l l y someone who suppor tedhim, my first ques t i on i s , how long hast h i s been going on, and who knew about it.

And you can co r r e c t me if I 'm wrong,bu t th e only communicat ions t h a t PeteThomassen had, which was a member o f th eUni ty Team, which was a l e t t e r he s en t tous through th e Carpen ters magazine, he d idno t , A, apo log ize fo r what happened , eventhough he wasn ' t invo lved , bu t t h a t wash is t i c k e t number, t h a t was h is p ar tn er ;and he d i dn ' t assure me as a member t h a t

1819

he hadabout it.

t h a t he never knew any th ing

202122

And I th i nk t h a t i s a c ru c i a l s t epbefore you guys o r us guys move fo rward .Because you have to r e s to r e the t r u s t t h a t

23 i s l o s t . As you can see he r e , t he r e ' s2425

24,000 members, 4,000 members ou t o f work,and you c an ' t muster even abou t a hundred


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people to come today. And I th i nk whatyou ' re see ing i s j u s t a l o t o f members int h i s Union f e e l d i senf r anch i sed , and If e e l l i k e t h ey ' ve - - they don ' t f e e l l i k ethey can make a d i f f e r enc e , and as you cansee , with all th e p eop le speak ing tod ay ,t h a t t h a t ' s not t r u e .

So I , as f a r as Pe te Thomassen, Ith i nk t h a t he , nor - - as being j u s t th esupe rv i so r - - nor Mr. Spencer , th e

12 supe rv i so r , need a l o t o f su sp ic io n. I131415

th i nk t h a t ' s impor tan t t h a t t hey make as t a t emen t to th e members t h a t t hey in goodf a i t h a re moving forward with the se

16 changes . Otherwise , t h e r e ' s always going171819

to be some doubt and some c on ce rn s a bo utth e changes they a re making. And I th i nkt h a t it's unnecessa ry , I th i nk t h a t can be

20 ea s i l y f i xed . So I th i nk t h a t it would be212223

f in e fo r them to be made to swear t h a tthey d i dn ' t know any th ing , e spec i a l l ywhere Pe t e ' s concerned as a s s i s t a n t

24 supe rv i so r . I th i nk t h a t ' s impo r t an t .25 So wi th t h a t s a i d , ano the r problem


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236Testimony - Olga Agui

t h a t I s e e t h a t p e r t a i n s t o t h i s i s t h a tmembers a r e r e a l l y n o t i n f o r m e d , one, byc h o i c e , and two, b e c a u s e t h e D i s t r i c tCounc i l h a s n ' t been r e a l l y good w i t hd i s p e r s i n g t h e i n f o r m a t i o n , e s p e c i a l l y

7 t h r o u g h its w e b s i t e . Things l i k e o u r89

10

c o n t r a c t s , CBAs, PLAs, a l l k i n d s o fa g r e e m e n t s , who 's o u r t r u s t e e s , who a r e ont h e b o a r d s - -

11 THE CHAIRMAN: Slow down j u s t a1213

little b i t , p l e a s e ?THE WITNESS: a l l t h o s e t h i n g s

141516

s h o u l d b e e a s i l y a v a i l a b l e t o u s ,e s p e c i a l l y i n t h i s age o f t e c h n o l o g y .I ' m r e q u e s t i n g , my second p o i n t i s t o

So

17181920212223

r e q u e s t t h a t Mr. Spencer make all t h e s eq u e s t i o n s , a l l t h e s e new f i n d i n g s , a l l o ft h e recommendat ions t h a t have been made,a v a i l a b l e t o t h e w e b s i t e r i g h t away, a s away f o r them t o g e t i n v o l v e d .

And t h e l a s t p o i n t I want t o make i s ,I ' v e worked w i t h men and I ' v e worked w i t h

24 r e a l l y many men. I ' v e worked w i t h guys25 t h a t do - - t h e y a r e b i g and s t r o n g and do


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237Testimony - Olga Agui

hard work, and I 'm always amazed t h a tthose men do no t s tand up fo r themselvesin t h i s Union. And I th i nk it's a b igproblem t h a t members a re a f r a i d to speakup, because I th i nk it's a cu l t u r e o f f e a rin t h i s Counc i l o f being b lackba l l ed . AndI 'm j u s t s t a r t i ng ou t , and t h i s i s th efirst t ime I speak, and I hope th a t th a tg ives a l o t of members t h i s - - I th i nkit's someth ing t h a t ' s owed to them, t h i sab i l i t y to speak up.

We had an argument here about th e14 de lega te s . It's always been an unsa id1516171819202122232425

th i ng t h a t th e d eleg a te s a re hand-p ickedby th e l e ade rsh ip , and you say , "Wel l , howcan t h a t be? You vote fo r them." Well ,you have a l o t o f members t h a t don ' t showup to meet ings . You have a l o t o f peoplet h a t don ' t vo te . And t h a t i s afundamental problem he r e , and I th i nk t h a ti s because if you look a t th e h i s to ry , a tl e a s t 1980 to t h i s moment, look a t whathas happened to th e l e ade r sh i p , if theyhaven ' t been i nd i c t ed o r removed o r some


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c a n ' t tell you whether my BA does a goodj o b o r n o t b e c a u s e I r e a l l y d o n ' t knowwhat t h e y do. And t h a t ' s i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t

5 we need t o know. I would l i k e t o know67

what t h e y do so I can judge f o r m y s e l f(Applause. )

8 THE WITNESS: - - you know, d e c i s i o n s9

1011121314151617

i n t h e D i s t r i c t C o u n c i l , BAs, o r g a n i z e r s ,I t h i n k it's i m p o r t a n t f o r members t o knowt h e work t h a t t h e y do b e c a u s e I know a l o to f them work v e r y h a r d and t h e y n e v e r g e tt h e r e c o g n i t i o n and t h e y a r e alwayss u b j e c t t o j u s t rumors , and t h a t ' s n o tf a i r , e i t h e r .

I ' m j u s t going t o f i n i s h by s a y i n gt h a t I have been a working a p p r e n t i c e f o r

18 f o u r y e a r s . I c o n s i d e r m y s e l f v er y l u ck y ,

h i r i n g .

19202122232425

and I ' m r e a l l y g r a te f u l t o t h e Union, t ot h e s c h o o l and t o a l l t h e members who havep a i d f o r t h a t t r a i n i n g , and I t h i n k t h a tt h e r e ' s a l o t o f good p e o p l e i n t h i s Unionand we can make it work if you j u s t t a k ec a r e o f some o f t h e d e c i s i o n s a b o u t

Thank you.


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240Testimony - Mike Bi l e l l o(Applause. )THE CHAIRMAN: Mike Bi l e l l o .

4 M I C H A E L B I L E L L 0 , having been duly56789

sworn, t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows :THE CHAIRMAN: What Loca l a re you

from, Mike?THE WITNESS: Loca l 157, 34-yea r

member.1011

THE CHAIRMAN:THE WITNESS:

Go ahead.Good a f te rnoon . I 'm

1213141516171819

no t su re if anyone today has given anyt e s t imony r ega rd ing th e PLA agreements .

THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.THE WITNESS: You have heard about

it.

THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.THE WITNESS: So I 'm no t here to

deba te whether t hey a re good, bad o r20 i nd i f f e r en t . The po i n t i s t h a t th e21 membership here of t en i s tak ing a h i t in22 t h e i r wal l e t s . This i s an i s sue t h a t was23 s t a r t i ng to be d i scussed a t th e beg inn ing24 o f t h i s yea r . I 'm going to say January ,25 maybe be fore t h a t , and by Apri l -May, it


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241Test imony - Mike Bi l e l l o

was a done dea l , we had members hereworking under PLAs.

That being s a id , I have in f r o n t ofme here the LM-2 r e po r t s fo r th e Di s t r i c tCounci l ava i l ab l e from th e l abor

7 depar tment . You can download it from8 t h e i r webs i te . The first one here i s fo r9

1011121314

th e pe r i od t h a t covers July 1 s t , 2008th rough June 30th , 2009, s igned by Pe te rThomassen and Denis Sh i e l , October 6,2009.

I 'd l i ke to go over some o f the i temson the se LM-2 r e po r t s t h a t s t r i k e me as

15 being excess ive . I ' ve only had about two161718

o r t h ree days to read the se r epo r t s , so Ic an ' t hones t l y say t h a t I ' ve done a l o t o fhomework on it. But j u s t the se a re th i ngs

19 t h a t reach ou t a t me. The Breake r s , Palm2021222324

Beach, Flo r ida , a r e s t au r an t , $9 ,552 .THE CHAIRMAN: Are you going to go

ahead and r ead t ha t ? But a little whi leago, t ha t was a l l read i n to th e reco rd .You want to r ead i t ?

25 THE WITNESS: Yes, I'd l i ke to go


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Test imony - Mike Bi l e l l o2 ahead. I'll t ry to make it as f a s t - -3 THE CHAIRMAN: Slow down, bu t t h a t4

5

was b rough t i n t o t e s t imony .THE WITNESS: Balve l l a , $13,545.

6 6,823, non- i temized t r an s ac t i on s . I 'm no t7

8

9

sure what a non- i temized t r ansac t ion i s .I s t h a t a re s t au ran t? Maybe it's a l coho l .Maybe it's f ive -hundred-do l l a r bo t t l e s o f

10 wine. I don ' t know. It seems excess ive1112

to me fo r a one day d inne r .The Old Homestead.

13 THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me. Could1415

everybody tu rn your ce l lphones of f?Please? Thank you.

16 THE WITNESS: Old Homestead, t h a t ' s a17 f i v e - s t a r r e s t au ran t on Ninth Avenue.18 January 5 th , 2009, $9 ,692 . 3,233 o f t ho se19 do l l a r s , non- item ized . I 'm going to pu t20 t h a t as ide . January 5 th , 2009, we ' l l come2122

back to t h a t da te .The Hil ton Hote l , January 5 th , 2009,

23 $20,630. Tha t ' s in Bever ly Hi l l s ,24 Ca l i f o rn i a . I 'm going to pu t t h a t in t h a t25 p i l e . We're going to go back to t h a t .


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Test imony - Mike Bi l e l l o2 And we have some l ega l f ee s . O'Dwyer3 & Berns te i n , $854,325 . Blank Rome,4 ano the r law f i rm , $15,541. Sch i f f Hard in ,5

6

7

8

9

l e g a l s e rv i ce s , $8 ,325 . Ti l lman , Friedmanand Schmit tman, f ive thousand do l l a r s .Another law f i rm. O'Dwyer & Berns te i na ga in , an oth er law f i rm, $8 ,202 .

As you can see , O'Dwyer & Berns te i n10 has qu i t e a ta b here . They a re th e ones11121314151617

t h a t t a lked to th e government fo r th eDi s t r i c t Counc i l . But if th e l e ade rsh ipo f t h i s Counc i l were r e a l l abor l e ade r s ,t hey would go and t a lk to them t hemse lves ,let th e l awyers sit beh ind them i n s t e ad o fsending th e l awyers to do a l l th e t a l k ingand runn ing up those kinds o f f ee s .

18 Barry Secur i ty . I ' v e heard we need192021

s ecu r i t y . But $340,848 fo r a year? I 'mgoing to pu t t h a t a s i de a l s o .

I n t e l l i t e ch Secur i ty , ano the r $6,72522 fo r s ecu r i t y . The West in Dip lomat Reso r t23 and Spa, Hollywood, F lo r i da , lodg ing fo r24 conference , t h ree days , $61 ,596 . Help me25 ou t he re , when o the r counc i l s go to


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244Test imony - Mike Bi1e11o

F10r ida fo r t h i s even t , a re the 10dgingbi11s t h a t much?

4 THE CHAIRMAN: I mean, you ' re ask ing5 a ques t ion I have no know1edge o f .6 THE WITNESS: I 'm j u s t 100king a t7 t h i s , I go to a hote18 THE CHAIRMAN: I don ' t know any th ing9

1011

1213141516

about th e conference , what it was abou t ,so it wou1dn' t do any good to ask me.

THE WITNESS: O'Dwyer & Berns te i naga in , $32 ,a09 . Andrew Ma10ney, 1aw f i rm,$30,000 . Get t ing Hungry, a r e s t au r an t ,$19,854 . QNITEL An t ic o rr up tio n S e rv ic e s,$666,539 . I don ' t th i nk we go t ourmoney's wor th . We wou1dn ' t be here today.

171819

Libe r ty Cafe , e i g h t thousandme g e t back to t h i s . We havean t i c o r rup t i on he r e , because th e

1 e t

20 1eadersh ip o f t h i s Counci1 s igned onto it.21 It was a se t t1ement agreement . It's no t22 qua r te r1y . It was a se t t 1emen t agreement ,232425

b ecau se they manipu1ated the 1 i s t , theygo t caugh t , they go t brough t in f r on t o fth e judge who over sees th e consen t dec ree .


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245Tes t imony - Mike Bi l e l l o

J u s t l i ke th e consen t decree was s ignedonto by our l e ade r sh i p , they s igned on to

4 t h i s . $666,000 .5

6

7

8

9

10

O'Dwyer & Berns t e i n , $123,034 .Another d inne r meet ing fo r f ive thousanddo l l a r s .

The reason I pu t t h ese a s i de , th eBarry Secur i ty , t hey d id have i t emizeddays here fo r s ecu r i t y se rv i ce s

11 r ep re sen ted . January 5 th , 2009, $24,081.1213

They had b i l l i n g s wi th January 14 th , f ivethousand; January 22nd, 6 ,259; January 29,

14 20 ,120 . So t h a t t e l l s me t h a t it's no t151617181920

fo r a pe r i od t h a t on th e day, January 5 th ,th e bill was $24,081.

What e l s e was going on January 5th?We had th e H il to n ho te l in Bever ly Hi l l s ,Ca l i f o rn i a , th e l odg ing t h e r e , wi th a billo f $20,630 . We had The O ld Homes te ad ,

21 January 5 th , 2009, b i l l e d $9 ,692 . I don ' t22232425

know, do we need s ecu r i t y a t The OldHomestead down in F lo rid a o r Ca l i f o rn i a ,do we t ake s ecu r i t y with us? I mean, t h i si s j u s t ques t i ons t h a t jump ou t a t me,


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Test imony - Mike Bi l e l l o2 l ook ing a t it fo r two days . H opefu lly you34

5

6

7

8

9

guys wi l l d ig i n t o t h i s and can t ake it toth e nex t l eve l .

This he re i s th e pe r i od , 7 /1 , 2007,6/30 , 2008, s igned by Pe t e Thomassen andMichae l Forde. Re l e g a l fe e s , f iv ethousand , seven thousand , fo r ano the r lawf i rm, O'Dwyer & Berns te i n , $607,161 .

10 Blank Rome, a law f i rm, $7 ,500 . Donohue &1112

Donohue, law f i rm , $28,052 . O'Dwyer &Berns te i n , $5 ,710 . Abrams, Herd & Murphy,

13 accoun tan t s , 82 ,000 . Hones t ly , t h a t14 sounds l i ke a l o t o f money to me fo r15 accoun t i ng . I don ' t r e a l l y know.16 Mar ine l l o r e s t au r an t , $5 ,715 , all17 non- i t emized t r a n s a c t i on s . The West in1819202122

Diplomat Reso r t and Sp a, H ollyw oo d,F lo r i da , $63,960 . Date s , 2 /21 /08 ,2 /10 /08 , 3 /17 /08 .

The W hole Cei l i ng I ndus t r i e s ,J e r i cho , l odg ing fo r con fe r ence , 11 ,500 .

23 I l i ve down th e s t r e e t from he r e . I make2425

t h a t commute every day. What would bel odg ing fo r t h a t confe rence? I don ' t


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know. Maybe t h e r e ' s a l o g i c a l34

exp lana t ion .t h a t .

Hopefu l ly you ' l l look i n t o

5 Barry Secu r i t y , $333,740 . Here ' s one6

7

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fo r a pa rk ing l o t down on John S t r e e t fo r$14 ,487 ,wh i ch jumps ou t a t me because wehave a pa rk ing l o t by Di s t r i c t Counc i l ,where we pay $128,161 . We have a l o t o fveh i c l e s , g r an t ed , bu t why do we have onedown on John S t r e e t ? We have no o f f i c e s

12 down t h e r e . J u s t a ques t i on . O'Dwyer &13 Berns te i n , $26,089 . Il Molino r e s t au r an t ,14 June 10 th , 2008, $10 ,190 , 4,90215 un item ized . C ar ibe Hi l ton I n t e r n a t i o n a l ,161718

San Juan , Puer to Rico , l odg ing fo rcon fe r ence , J anua ry 9 th , 2008, $16 ,234 .

Shera ton ho t e l , Seventh Avenue, New19 York, New York. $20 ,129 . Holiday Inn ,20 57th S t r e e t , New York, New York. $10 ,359 .21222324

Four Seasons Hote l , Las Vegas , Nevada,$6 ,044 . Andrew Maloney, a t t o rney ,$40,000 . Nelson & L i t t n e r , law f i rm ,$13,600 . Broach & Stu lbe rg , law f i rm ,

25 $98,363 . Get t ing Hungry, 21,074 . UNITEL,


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248Test imony - Mike Bi l e l l o

a ga in , c or ru p tio n - - an t i c o r rup t i on34

s e rv i ce s , $662,396 .Berns te in

O'Dwyer &

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121314151617

THE CHAIRMAN: Now, let me i n t e r r u p tyou fo r a moment.

THE WITNESS: It ge t s t i r i ng .THE CHAIRMAN: Are you j u s t about

done? The reason I say t h a t , th e Counc i l ,I know you weren ' t he r e , we go t t e s t imonyfrom an aud i t o r . And they a re look ingi n to a l l th e expend i tu re s and if you wantto i n t roduce a l l o f those as an exh ib i t ,w e 'l l c er ta in ly t ake them in , bu t we havea l r eady had an aud i t o f the books , I mean,how many mow a re these do you want toread?

181920

THE WITNESS:po in t .

THE CHAIRMAN:

I th i nk I ' v e made my

Okay. We're aware o f21 your po i n t a long t ime ago . Okay.22 THE WITNESS: I guess th e r e a l i n t e n t232425

here i s not on ly , you know, you need to beaware , bu t th e gene ra l membership needs tobe aw are w hat goes on in th e Di s t r i c t

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Testimony - Diane Ma rin conz2 Counc i l . I mean, you know, maybe it's me,34

and some o f th ese th in gs seem exces s ive o rmaybe they a re j u s t p ig s .

56

THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.much.

Thank you very

78

THE WITNESS:(Applause. )

Thank you.

910

THE CHAIRMAN: Ervin Davis? I r v inhere? Not here? Diane Marinconz.

11 D I A N E M A R INC 0 N Z, having been duly12 sworn, t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows :13 THE WITNESS: Hel lo , my name i s Diane141516171819

Marinconz, from Local 45.THE CHAIRMAN: Are you on o f f i c e r ,

Diane?THE WITNESS: No, no t an o f f i c e r .THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, p ro ce ed w ith

your t e s t imony .20 THE WITNESS: I'd j u s t l i k e to say2122232425

t h a t I 'm here to speak o f changes I 'd l i k eto see . One I hope i s t h a t when t h i s i ssa id and done, t h a t people who a re pu t incharge a re pu t in ch arg e w ith th ew e ll-b ein g o f us in mind, who have th e


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250Testimony - Diane Mar in conz

ves ted i n t e r e s t o f us in mind, and whent hey make dec i s ions , it's someth ing t h a tt hey t ake us i n to account , and no t th ebottom do l l a r o r whatever .

But I th i nk some o f the changes t h a tcou ld be made a re in th e schoo l itself,

8 fo r th e appren t i ce sh ip . I went th rough9 it. I j u s t f in i shed in ' 08 . I became a

10 mechanic . I was l a i d o ff about s i x , seven111213141516171819202122

months a f t e r t h a t . I ' ve been ou t o f works i nce p r e t t y much. But in th e scho ol , Ith ink the c l a s s e s shou ld be a little moregea red to what i s done on th e job .

Learning how to do house f raming,t h a t - - I a l so - - I 'm so r ry , l o s t my t r a i no f though t . I th i nk the t r a in ing cou ld bebe t t e r t h e r e . I th i nk th e t r a in ing cou ldbe be t t e r on th e job s i t e s as wel l .

I th i nk t h i s - - those a re down fromtop , and I , un l i ke a l l t ho se , am no t l uckyenough to be on my t oo l s from th e

23 beg inn ing . I had to f i g h t fo r any t ime24 t h a t I was on my t oo l s . I counted25 mate r i a l s , I d id th e cof fee o rde r , I , you


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Testimony - D ia ne M a rin co nz2 know, pa id my dues , which I expec ted . But3 I never r e a l l y go t a chance to show what I4 cou ld do. And I th ink in th e words o f5678

someone e l s e t h e r e , I cou ld have been acon tender he re , bu t I had to f i g h t fo reve ry th ing th at I 'v e done on th e jobs i t e s .

9 I ' ve looked around. Every o the r10 t r ade , t h e i r a pp re ntic es a re working with11 mechanics . They do a l l t h a t o the r s t u f f ,12 bu t they work with mechanics . And I th i nk13141516

the Carpen te r s ' Union i s l a ck ing in a b ig ,b ig way in t h a t a rea because t he re a repeop le who have unloaded t r u cks fouryea rs , and t hey 've go t t en ou t and had to

17 become mechanics . I th i nk t h a t shou ld181920

r e a l ly be looked a t .And as f a r as th e out -o f -work list, I

th i nk t he re i s a need fo r something to be21 done t he re as wel l . As I s a id , I was l a i d2223

o f f back in August o f l a s t yea r .been ou t o f work fo r ten months .

I ' veYou run

24 i n to people and they say , "How long you25 out? II "A year ." They wince. Never see

.


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252Testimony - Diane Ma rin conz

them in a meetin g, n ev er see themanywhere.

So my po in t i s t h a t I f e l t I ' v e beendoing th e r i g h t t h i ng s , and I 'm no t , you

6 know, ge t t i ng pa id o f f fo r t h a t . I 'm789

10111213141516171819

doing what I 'm supposed to be doing andI 'm no t f i nd ing work. And I don ' t th i nk Ishou ld be ou t a yea r , I don ' t ca re whatth e economy i s l i k e , e spec i a l l y when I goand show up on j obs to shape them and I 'mlooked a t l i k e I have t h ree heads , l i k ewhy would they want to pu t me on as acompany person when t hey have o the rcompany peop le they a re keep ing t he re as ar e s u l t o f th e 50-50 pathway.

Tha t ' s a l l I want to say , and I hopet h a t someth ing good comes ou t o f t h i s andpeople a re pu t in p lace fo r our bene f i t .

20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Diane.2122

Thank you fo r coming down.(Applause. )

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Richard Wright?2425

Richard in th e room? Richard Wright? TomMcGuire.



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TO M

253Test imony - Tom McGuire

M c G U IRE , having been du1y sworn,t e s t i f i e d as fo11ows:

4 THE WITNESS: Good a f te rnoon . I 'm56789

10

from Loca1 2387 , I 'm a shop s t eward andI 'm a t r u s t e e o f our Loca1 .

THE CHAIRMAN: Which Loca1?THE WITNESS: 2387 with F100r

Covere rs . Recent1y , t he re have beenrumors c i rcu1a t ing t h a t our po1i t i c a1

11 ac t ion program may be in j eopardy . In1213141516171819202122232425

pa r t , I t h ink , due to th e m isb e1 ie f t h a tMr. Forde as por t r ayed in th e pre ss i ssomehow a 1arge Democrat ic f und ra i s e r .The Di s t r i c t Counci1 i s th e f und ra i s e r .Again , th e pre ss has t h i s wrong.

Whi1e i n s t i t u t e d under Mr. Forde,t h i s program i s in rea1 i ty ademocra t ica11y run one as commit tees o fmembers sit with cand ida t e s fo r va r iouspo1 i t i c a l o f f i c e s and ques t i on them as towhat t hey plan to. do fo r our members andt h e i r knowledge o f our i s s ue s .

I happened to sit on two o f th esecommit tees . And I can say w ith ce r t a i n t y


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255Testimony - Tom McGuire

Mayor Bloomberg a t a t ime whenp r iva t e i ndus t ry cons t r uc t i on in New YorkCity has been decimated, i s s tand ing upfo r our members once again because o f thework o f our po l i t i c a l ac t ion d i r e c t o r , andth e members' work on h is l a s t campaign.Las t n ig h t , in Sta ten I s l and a lone ,

we had 48 members come ou t to suppo r t th emayor, and a nt ic ip a te th a t numberi nc rea s ing , keep ing th e mayor on our s ide

12 a l l th e way. This can only be good fo r13 our members in the se i n c r e a s i ng ly tough14 economic t imes . When a program pu t s15161718

thousands o f people on th e s t r e e t fo rcand ida te s , th e po l i t i c a l animals in t h i sc i t y s tand up and t ake no t i c e .Po l i t i c i an s come to us fo r back ing

19 because o f t h i s . Not because o f20 Mr. Forde. I know because I ' v e been a DC2122

po l i t i c a l ac t ion cap ta in fo r th e wholet im e w e've been doing t h i s , n ine y ea rs

23 now. Our work in th e po l i t i c a l a rena , and2425

our members ' s t e ad f a s t be l i e f in hardwork, a re what keep the se po l i t i c i a n s


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256Test imony - Tom McGuire

coming back t o us y e a r a f t e r y e a r , n o t3 j u s t one man. We're r o u t i n e l y i n v i t e d t o4

5

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e v e n t s a f t e r campaigns t o thank u s , and Id o n ' t t h i n k t h e y do t h i s t o p u l l t h e woolo v e r o u r eyes b u t t o g en u in e ly show ust h e y c a r e .

I have come t o know each and e v e r ye l e c t e d on S t a t e n I s l a n d , by t h e way, t h emost d e n s e l y p o p u l a t e d u nio n co un ty i n t h ec o u n t r y , b e c a u s e o f o u r work, a s w e l l a ssome i n Brooklyn and Manhat tan, and I cans a y I r e a l l y t r u s t and b e l i e v e i n o u rf r i e n d s on t h e C i t y C o u n c i l , i n Albany andi n Washington t o do what is r i g h t f o r t h eworkers o f o u r c i t y .

This is p r o b a b l y t h e most i m p o r t a n tp a r t o f o u r program a s , when we need t oe x e r t p r e s s u r e on an u n s c r u p u l o u sc o n t r a c t o r o r a n e g a t i v e c i t y agency , wehave o n l y t o make a c a l l o r two t o o u re l e c t e d s , and w i t h o u t f a i l , t h e y j o i n usi n t h e f r a y .

24 A q u i c k a n e c d o t e . The first y e a r we25 were r u n n i n g t h i s program, I walked i n t o


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257Testimony - Tom McGuire

t h e campaign o f f i c e o f m y o I d neighborhoodo f Bay Ridge, and was n o t o n l y known byt h e S t a te S e n a t e 's c a n d i d a t e , b u t h i s

5 campaign manager . The mayor was e l e c t e d ,6 by t h e way, who had been my p o l i t i c a l7 s c i e n c e p r o f e s s o r . This i s emblemat ic o f89

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12

t h e f r i e n d s h i p s we've made w i t h o u re l e c t e d s and i n t h i s c i t y , t h i s i s how weg e t work.

This i s t h e o n l y way w e ' r e going t ob e a t t h e non-union u . S . Chamber o f

13 Commerce-led c e n t e r . They 've p o u r e d14 b i l l i o n s i n t o b e a t i n g u s . We j u s t d o n ' t15 have t h a t . P l e a s e d o n ' t t a k e t h i s t o o l161718192021

away from u s , a s has been rumored.The o n l y o t h e r i s s u e I have i s t h e

f i v e - y e a r j o b s t e w a r d r u l e . Any membernow w i t h f i v e y e a r s i n t h e Union i sa l l o w e d t o o p e r a t e a s a j o b s t e w a r d .Stewards s h o u l d b e a p p o i n te d , n o t a shop

22 s t e w a r d , a j o b s t e w a r d . Stewards s h o u l d232425

be a p p o i n t e d b a s e d on m e r i t and knowledgeo f t h e c o n t r a c t s , n o t l e n g t h o f s e r v i c e .This i s s u e u n f o r t u n a t e l y l i e s s q u a r e l y t o



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2Testimony - John Musumeci

th e m e ch an ic s's f e e t . And I hope it's

258

3 looked a t . Thank you.456

THE CHAIRMAN:(Applause. )THE CHAIRMAN:

Thank you.

Je r ry Berger? I s78

Je r ry here? James Les l i e? James MLes l i e? John Musumeci? Okay, John. I

91011

p ro b ab ly emas cu la te d your name, bu t I 'msu re I 'm no t the first one.M-u-s -u -m-e-c- i .

12 J 0 H N MUS U M E C I , having been duly13 sworn, t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows :1415

THE CHAIRMAN:you handing me?

Okay. Now, what a re

16 THE WITNESS: My t e s t imony and17 exh i b i t s . I'll say it.18 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. But fo r19 purposes o f th e r eco rd , I have to i d en t i f y20 what it i s . Okay. John, how do you2122

pronounce your l a s t name?THE WITNESS: Musumeci.

23 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. A ll r i gh t ,2425

cou ld you tell me, John, you 've handed mesome documents. What might we have in



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259Test imony - John Musumeci

f r on t o f us?3 THE WITNESS: I would l i k e to read45

t h i s p re s en t a t i on in to th e reco rd and askt h a t it be marked as an exh i b i t and

6 en te red in to th e r eco rd . The documents78

t h a t I j u s t handed you were myp re s en t a t i on wi th a t t a ched exh i b i t s .

910

THE CHAIRMAN:th e exh i b i t .

Okay. So th e book i s

1112

THE WITNESS: It's th e p re s en t a t i on .THE CHAIRMAN: I go t two documents

13 he re . Correc t? I have141516

THE WITNESS: Those a re co pie s .THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, th e t e s t imony and

th e exh i b i t a re all toge the r?17 THE WITNESS: Every th ing i s t oge the r .18 The one t h a t I gave you, wi th th e little19 t abs? That had th e exh i b i t s . The o the r2021

ones , i s j u s t a copy o f eve ry th ing wi th not abs . But eve ry th ing i s in th e re .

2223

THE CHAIRMAN:documents?

Okay. Have we go t two

2425

MR. YEGGY:document.

I th i nk we have one


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THE CHAIRMAN: A ll r i g h t . We have3 cop ies o f t h a t . Okay, very good. So I 'm456

going to mark t h a t as Exhib i t number 6.Go ahead proceed with your t es t imony .

THE WITNESS: My name i s John7 Musumeci. I 'm a 22-yea r member o f Local8 157. From 1999 th rough 2008, I was an9

1011

e l ec t ed Loca l 157 o f f i c e r and d eleg ate toth e Di s t r i c t Counc i l .

In 2008, I was a cand ida t e fo r th e12 Di s t r i c t Counc i l Vice -P re s iden t . I 'm a l so13141516

a c r ea to r o f 10ca l157b logspo t . com, awebs i te to he lp keep our members informed.

I wi l l g ive t e s t imony on th e conducto f the sup e rv is io n and th e Di s t r i c t

17 Counc i l . Spec i f i c a l l y , Superv i so r Frank1819202122232425

Spence r ' s f a i l u r e to answer members 'ques t ions , how the r ank-and- f i l e havegrown to d i s t r u s t th e UBC l e ade r sh i p , th enaming o f Pe te Thomassen as a s s i s t a n tsupe rv i so r and the r e t a in ing o f allMichae l Forde ' s appo in ted t r u s t e e s andd ep ar tme nt h ea ds .

It i s no t my i n t en t i on to d i spa rage


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Test imony - John Musumeci2 th e r e pu t a t i on s o f UBC l e ade r s . However,3 f a c t s a re th e f a c t s . The cor rup t ion t h a t4

5

6

7

8

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10111213141516171819202122232425

i s de ta i l ed in Genera l Pre s i den tMcCarron ' s l e t t e r to th e membership da t edAugust 13, 2009, has been wel l known toth e l e ade rsh ip o f t h i s Counc i l fo r yea r sand has been documented in numerousr epor t s by th e i ndependen t i nve s t i g a t o r ,Wal te r Mack.

Seve ra l law enforcement o f f i c i a l shav e a cknowle dg ed t h a t Wal te r Mack 's workl e d to some o f th e cha rges in th e August5 th i nd i c tmen t aga in s t Forde and o the r s .Many be l i e ve t h a t Mr. James Murray , th eowner o f On Par Con t rac t ing Corp. and amajo r t a r g e t o f Wal te r Mack 'si nve s t i g a t i on s i s " con t r a c t o r number one ,"one o f th e s ix con t r a c t o r s unnamed in th eind i c tmen t , and i s coope ra t ing wi th th egovernment.

The cor rup t i on t h a t i s de t a i l ed inthe 29-coun t i nd i c tmen t and documented byWal te r Mack took p l a c e , to quote JudgeChar le s S. Haigh t , August 8 th , 2008,


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Union o f f i c i a l s played v i t a l r o l e s inf a c i l i t a t i ng , enab l ing and abe t t ing th eemployers ' f r auds by f a i l i ng to supe rv i sethe job sites.

Mr. Chairman, it i s no t th e p a s t t h a t7 concerns me. It i s what i s happening here8

9

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12131415

r i g h t now t h a t I am more concerned wi th .Do you th i nk any o f t h i s cor rup t i on wouldbe happ enin g if we had Di s t r i c t Counc i lo f f i c e r s t h a t knew what th e he l l was goingon in t h i s admin i s t r a t i on? The Counc i l i scor rup ted on eve ry The cor rup t iontook p l ace r i g h t under th e nose o f Counc i lo f f i c e r s Pete Thomassen and Denis Sh i e l ,

16 among o the r s . It i s an unconsc ionab le171819202122

f a i l u r e on t h e i r p ar t . Where i s th eaccoun tab i l i t y? Who i s r e spons ib l e? Thel e ade r sh ip has f a i l ed us.

The Di s t r i c t Counc i l o f f i c e r s havee i t h e r been f a c i l i t a t o r s , enab le r s ,abe t t o r s , wi l l fu l ly ig no ran t o r j u s t

23 t o t a l l y incom peten t . F ran kly , Pete24 Thomassen and Denis Sh i e l shou ld have been25 asked to tender t h e i r r e s i gna t i on s . Heads



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b l i nd eye to co r rup t ion? Mismanaging th eDis t r i c t Counc i l ' s funds, h i r i ngunnecessary employees? Leasing the mostexpensive f l e e t o f ca r s in th e UBC,runn ing up exces s ive l ega l bills,a t t end ing over 40 go l f ou t i n g . a yea r?Where i s th e ou t rage from Thomassen int h i s l e t t e r ? Where i s th e sense o fbe t raya l?

Le t ' s say Mike Forde was th e g r e a tHoudini and nobody had seen t h i sco r rup t ion? Where i s th e be t r aya l

THE CHAIRMAN: You've go t to slowdown a little b i t . Have some p i t y fo r the

1617

guy. Okay.THE WITNESS: Pe te Thomassen and

1819

Denis Shie l worked with Mike Ford s i de bys id e fo r te n yea r s , and th e l e t t e r

20 r e f l e c t s noth ing . It even s t a r t s ou t ,212223

"The f a l l season i s he re . " Who ca res?Ins tead , we g e t d r i v e l in t h i s l e t t e rabout remain ing focused and se rv in g th e

24 men and women o f t h i s Counc i l . It's25 pa t h e t i c . Excuse me. I'll go back to my


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p repa red speech now.At tached to t h i s p re s en t a t i on and

marked as Exh i b i t A i s a r e p r i n t o f a b log5 p o s t da t ed May 7, 2008. T i t l e d ,6 "BULLSHIT, Angry Loca l 157 Members Demand7 Answers." It's an a r t i c l e de t a i l i ng how89

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1213141516171819202122232425

Superv iso r Spencer abrup t l y ended thefirst Loca l 157 meet ing in s ix monthss i nce th e November 21s t , 2007 supe rv i s i on ,withou t t ak ing any members' ques t ions .

The a r t i c l e a l so de t a i l s s ix memberq u es tio ns p o ste d on t h i s b10g which weres en t to Superv iso r Spencer on March 4 th ,2008.

Even a f t e r being to ld s eve r a l t imest h a t UBC l awyer Brian Quinn was dra f t ingan answer to th e q ue st io ns , Superv iso rSpencer r e fused to answer members 'que s t i on s .

At tached to t h i s presen ta t ion andmarked as Exh i b i t B i s a l e t t e r to th emembership from Superv iso r Spencer da tedAugust 25 th , 2009, s t a t i ng th at h is ,"F i r s t and only concern i s th e


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membership." When membership ques t ion s gounanswered by Union l e ade r sh i p , one mayconc lude t h a t th e l e ade r sh i p i s no tconcerned , bu t r a t h e r , th e l e ade r sh i p hascontempt fo r th e membership .

The f a c t is, th e r ank and file has8 grown to d i s t r u s t UBC l e ade r sh i p . Tha t9

10d i s t r u s t i s wel l founded given th e r e c en ti nd i c tmen t and th e long h i s to ry o f

11 cor rup t i on in th e D i s t r i c t Counc i l . Tha t121314151617181920212223

d i s t r u s t was seen r e c en t l y with a d i spu t ea r i s i ng between th e r a nk - and - f i l e andCounc i l l e ade r sh i p ove r a p lan to wi thho ldth e qua r t e r l y vaca t ion checks from th emembers t h a t r e fu sed to s ig n th e b lueca rd , which many members felt gave g r e a t e rpower to Union o f f i c i a l s .

At tached to t h i s p re s en t a t i on andmarked as Exh ib i t C i s a r e p r e s en t o f ablog po s t da ted May 7 , 2009, "New FinesPick C a rp en te rs A g ain st Union Leade r s . "

P a r t o f our wage and bene f i t s is24 vaca t ion pay . The Union wi thho lds t h i s25 weekly vaca t ion pay , p l a c i ng it in th e


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vaca t ion fund which i s then d i spe r s ed3 qua r t e r l y to each member. The Counc i l4

5

6

l e ade r sh ip wanted members to s ignau thor i za t ion ca rd s o r b lue ca rd s to a l lowth e Union to f i n e any members who worked

7 i l l e ga l l y fo r cash . Many Union members,8

9

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however , r e fused to s ign the b lue ca rds ,giv ing the Union th e power to takeunspec i f i ed and vague f ine s ou t o f t h e i rvaca t ion pay.

12 "The card was a t h r e a t . It was l i k e1314

s igning a black check to let them t ake ou twhatever they want , when th ey w an t," sa id

15 many c a rpen t e r s . Many Union members were16 e i th e r r elu c ta n tly s ign in g or re fus ing to17 s ign th e ca rd s . The Counc i l l e ade rsh ip1819

upped th e an te by ha l t i ng vaca t ionpayments to members t h a t wouldn ' t s ign th e

20 ca rd . The Counc i l deployed bus iness2122232425

agen ts and organ i ze r s to t h rea t en membersi n to s i gn ing th e b lu e ca rd .

The d i spu t e e s ca l a t ed in March 2009when th e bene f i t fund t r u s t e e s voted tos top sending vaca t i on checks to anyone who



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had no t s igned the au tho r i z a t i on ca rd ,i n f u r i a t i n g the r a nk - and - f i l e members.The l e ga l b as is fo r withho ld ing vaca t ion

5 fund payments i s unc l ea r . The bene f i t6

7fund ' s t r u s t e e s voted to s top d i s t r i b u t i n gvaca t i on checks with ou t s ee kin g l e g a l

8 opin ion . The ac t ion ou tra ge d th e9

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membership even more.Approximately one thousand members

s tood f a s t on p r inc ip l e and r e fused to12 s ign th e blue ca rd . The Counc i l131415161718192021

l e ade rsh ip wis ely d ec id ed to back down andsend ou t vaca t ion checks , s i nce t he re wasno l ega l j u s t i f i c a t i on to wi thho ld moneyt h a t was no t t h e i r s in th e first p lace .

These same l e ade r s t h a t have beeni nd i c t ed fo r c he atin g th e membership , andconduc t ing themselves in a manner o fco r rup t p rac t i c e s , a re c la im in g th e mora ls tand ing to f ine members fo r working fo r

22 cash . It's th e l e ade rsh ip t h a t th e2324

members f e a r , giv ing th e power to beg inf in ing members withou t def ined

25 r e s t r i c t i o n s . I br ing t h i s i n c i den t up to


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demonst ra te th e r e l a t i on sh ip between th emembership and the Counc i l l e ade rsh ip .

It proves wi thou t a doubt t h a t Unionl e ade rs a re i n d i f f e r e n t to th e members'

6 wants and needs. Even wo

Documents

UBC Hearing Pg 201-412