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QW-403.5, Change of group number

by gerdmil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:52 pm

Dear all,Could you please explain the clause QW-403.5 of ASME IX? I have went again and again throughthat clause but I am not able to understand what does it say.For example, QW-403.5 (c) defines that:

a procedure qualification shall be made for each P-number Group number combination of base metals

and immediately after that it says:

even though procedure qualification tests have been made for each of the two base metalswelded to itself

To my interpretation those two statements are equal to each other. Moreover, I am not sure that I havefully understood the rest of the QW-403.5 (c) regarding qualification of combination of base metals,etc. Could you please give some examples?thanks

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gerdmil

gerdmil Posts: 9Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:21 am

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Re: QW-403.5, Change of group number

by mohd » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:24 pm

dear,

As you know if impact is required, then the Group number is an essential variable.

Let's give two examples

Example-1sentence-1: "a procedure qualification shall be made for each P-number Group number combinationof base metals"sentence-2: "even though procedure qualification tests have been made for each of the two basemetals welded to itself'"WPS-1 # P1G1 to P1G1, if no impact requirement, then qualifies also for P1G1 to P1G2, refer tosentence-1&2WPS-2 # P1G2 to P1G2, if no impact requirement, then qualifies also for P1G2 to P1G1, refer to

sentence-1&2WPS-3 # P1G1 to P1G2 qualified with impact, qualifies also for the combination of WPS-1 & WPS-2with impact.

Example-2WPS-1 # P1G1 to P8G1 qualified with impact, qualifies only for this combination, not P1G1 to P1G1& P8G1 to P8G1.

Hope this help.

regards,

mohd

mohd Posts: 70Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:17 pm

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by wefel » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:22 am

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4/6



Mohd,

Since I disagree with your "Example-2" as well as I think we shall explain the clause QW-403.5 inmore detail, please let me give the below interpretation and kindly let me know if your are inagreement (please note that all of the example PQR are considered to have been performed withimpact test and for all of the production welding examples there is impact test requirement).

The statement "a procedure qualification shall be made for each P-number Group number

combination of base metals" means that the welding of P1G1 to P1G2 needs procedure qualificationeven though procedure qualification tests have been made for each of the two base metals

welded to itself . In other words if we have:PQR1: P1G1 to P1G1PQR2: P1G2 to P1G2then the welding of base metals P1G1 to P1G2 needs separate procedure qualification except if thePQR1 and PQR2 have the same essential and supplementary essential variables since the base metalsare assigned to different Group numbers within the same P-number (specified by QW-403.5).

Regarding the statement "when base metals of two different P-number Group number

combinations are qualified using a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of thosetwo P-number Group numbers to themselves as well as to each other using the variables

qualified", it means that if we have:PQR3: P1G1 to P2G4this PQR qualifies for the weldingsP1G1 to P1G1, P1G1 to P1G4, P1G1 to P2G1, P1G1 to P2G4, P1G4 to P1G4, P1G4 to P2G1, P1G4to P2G4, P2G1 to P2G1, P2G1 to P2G4, P2G4 to P2G4.

regardswefel

wefel Posts: 37Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:31 pm

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by mohd » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:15 pm

Dear Mr wefel,

With utmost respect what you said and demonstrated by examples is correct, but you have to see alsothe essential variables as per QW-250.

As I said P1G1 to P8G1 cannot qualify for P1G1 to P1G1 because we cannot weld this materials(P1G1 to P1G1) with ER309L, am I right?

As I said P1G1 to P8G1 cannot qualify for P8G1 to P8G1 because we cannot weld this materials(P8G1 to P8G1) with ER309L, am I right?

When we qualify WPS we have to look into this combination as well.

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5/6



Hope it is clear.

reagrds,

mohd

mohd Posts: 70

Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:17 pm

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by wefel » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:35 pm

Dear Mohd,Thanks for the explanatory comments though I regret to tell you that I don't agree with your thoughts

because if you have qualified procedure using base metals P1G1 to P8G1 and filler metal ER309Lthen you qualify also for P1G1 to P1G1 with the same filler metal (in reality no one uses ER309L toweld carbon steel since the ER309L is much more expensive form carbon steel filler metals) as wellas you qualify for P8G1 to P8G1 with the same filler metal (in reality it is not a common practice toweld for example SS 316 using ER309L filler metal since the latter may not be the appropriate filler metal for the service environment for which the material SS 316 has been selected).regardswefel

wefel Posts: 37Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:31 pm

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