Mishna 5

:כז .כח

פרק ב' משנה ה' בבא מציעא

ה מ� ה. ל� ל ל א� ל כ� ל� כ� ה ב� ת� י� ה ה� ל� מ� ש� אף ה�את. צ� י�

ת ד ח י� ה מ� ל� מ� ה ש� ך, מ� ר ל� , לומ� יה� ל יש א� ק� ה� ל�

ל ים, אף כ� ע� ה תוב� ש ל� י ים ו� נ� ימ� ה ס� ש ב� י שר ב� ד�

ב י� ים ח� ע� ש לו תוב� י ים ו� נ� ימ� ש בו ס� י שיז: ר� כ� ה� ל�

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'דברים פרק כ"ב פסוק ג

ן / כ� תו0 ו� ל� מ� ש� ה2 ל� ש ע3 4 ן ת� 5 כ� ו ו� מ7ר6 ח3 4 ה ל� 5 ש ע3 4 ן ת� 8 כ� ו�ה 9 ש ע3 4 ת�

ה : את� צ� נו ומ� = מ ד מ� > ר־ת7אב� ש יך א3 A ת אח� > ד� ב� ל־א3 כ� ל�א ל<

ם 4 ל� ע� ת� ה� ל ל� = :תוכ�

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'דברים פרק כ"ב פסוק א

ים D ח� ד� יוE נ� ת־ש� ו א Fיך א 9 ור אח� ת־ש/ הG א א ר� א־ת� ל4

יך 4 אח� ם ל� = יב� ש� ב ת� > ש� ם ה� : ה = מ� ת� מ� ל� ע� ת� ה� :ו�

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Goal #1

( asks a גמרא The ( מאי12כז. clarifying question on the משנה.

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( answers the רבא ( אמר12כז. question.

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Goal #3

( asks why רבא ( אמר13כז. something is necessary to be taught.

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Goal #4

( answers גמרא The ( צריכי15כז. and explains that the question is wrong and that the information is necessary.

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Goal #5

( asks why גמרא The ( שור19כז. something is necessary to be taught.

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Goal #6

( answers and גמרא The ( שור20כז. teaches us why the information is necessary.

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Goal #7

( asks a גמרא The ( ולכתוב21כז. challenge on the answer just given. The גמרא asks if what was said above is true the פסוק in the תורה should have been written differently.

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Goal #8

( agrees with the רבא ( אלא22כז. question and presents an alternative answer to the original question.

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Goal #9

( asks a גמרא The ( ואימא24כז. question on רבא‘s answer.

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Goal #10

( answers גמרא The ( גללים24כז. the question.

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Goal #11

( poses גמרא The ( ודלמא25כז. another possible question on רבא‘s answer.

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( answers גמרא The ( אמרי28כז. the question.

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•The גמרא wants to know what is the משנה referring to when it says “ בכלל כל

?”אלו

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said משנה explains that when the רבא • it was referring to the ”בכלל כל אלו“

part of the פסוק that says, “ )דברים כ"ב ג'(”, כל אבדת אחיך .

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,”כל אבדת אחיך“ ,says תורה asks, if the רבא •why does the תורה need to specifically

list: שור, חמור, שה, שמלה? Aren’t these items included in “all lost objects of your brother”?

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•The משנה already explained why it is necessary for the תורה to write the case of therefore explains that if גמרא The .שמלהthe תורה would have only written שמלה and not the case of חמור, I would have come to a wrong conclusion. I would have thought that a שמלה you must return since the סימנים are on the object itself. However, by a חמור the סימנים are on the saddle and not the donkey itself. Therefore, I would have thought you do not need to return the חמור. We now see that it is necessary to include the case of חמור in the תורה to teach us that you need to return even the חמור.

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•Now that we understand why the תורה needed to write שמלה and חמור the גמרא asks why is it necessary for the תורה to write Aren’t they included in the part ?שה andשור of the פסוק that says, “all lost objects of your brother”?

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•The תורה needs to write שור to teach us that a person is even obligated to return

the sheerings of an ox’s tail. The תורה also needs to write שה to teach us that a person is even obligated to return the sheerings of a sheep.

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•The גמרא says if it is true that the תורה wrote שור to include its tail’s sheerings and to include its sheerings, then there is a שהquestion. The תורה should have only written the case of שור and not שה. Certainly if you need to return the sheerings of the ox’s tail then you need to return the sheerings of a sheep. Why does the תורה need to list שה?

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is a שה writing תורה explains that the רבא •difficulty. There are two cases that

writes a specific תורה explains where the רבאitem and there seems to be nothing to learn from them. According to רבי יהודה there is nothing to be learnt from the תורה writing the case of a donkey getting damaged by a pit. According to everyone there is nothing to be learnt from the תורה writing the case of שה being returned.

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• Maybe the תורה writes the case of שה to teach us that a person even needs to

return lost manure. Therefore, the word שה is not extra and is needed.

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• Since manure is not worth a lot no one is going to claim it, making it ownerless.

Therefore, if some one found manure he would not need to return it. The word שה is not coming to include manure.

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• There was a question if the concept of .רבנ"ן or from the תורה is from the סימניםPerhaps the word שה teaches us that the ability to get back an object by giving סימנים is from the תורה.

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• The word שה is not coming to teach us that the concept of סימנים are from the

that the word משנה We taught in our .תורה is needed to teach us that any object שמלהwith a סימן and a claimer, a person is obligated to return. So we see that the word is used to teach that the concept of שמלה Therefore, the word .תורה is from the סימנים.still seems not to be needed שה

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.will explain it גמרא The – בכלל כל אלו

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To exclude something – אף כל שיש לו תובעיןthat we know the owner has given up

hope on.

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לא “ ,says פסוקים The – שור וחמור שה ושמלהוכן “ and ,”תראה את שור אחיך או שיו

.”תעשה לחמורו וכן תעשה לשמלתו

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on the סימן There is no – בסימני אוכףdonkey, but there is a סימן on the saddle that is on the חמור.

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to פסוק It is an extra – כתב רחמנא חמורteach us something else.

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Even the hair at the end of the – לגיזת זנבוtail you need to return.

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תורה To return the manure. If the – לגלליםonly wrote שור, I would have thought

that you are not obligated to return manure. Therefore, the תורה wrote שה to include the obligation to return manure.

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No one is going to trouble – אפקורי מפקר להוhimself to return for the manure and

claim it.

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'דברים פרק כ"ב פסוק ג

ן / כ� תו0 ו� ל� מ� ש� ה2 ל� ש ע3 4 ן ת� 5 כ� ו ו� מ7ר6 ח3 4 ה ל� 5 ש ע3 4 ן ת� 8 כ� ו�ה 9 ש ע3 4 ת�

ה : את� צ� נו ומ� = מ ד מ� > ר־ת7אב� ש יך א3 A ת אח� > ד� ב� ל־א3 כ� ל�א ל<

ם 4 ל� ע� ת� ה� ל ל� = :תוכ�

פרק ב' משנה ה' בבא מציעא

את. צ� ה י� מ� ה. ל� ל ל א� ל כ� ל� כ� ה ב� ת� י� ה ה� ל� מ� ש� אף ה�

ת ד ח י� ה מ� ל� מ� ה ש� ך, מ� ר ל� , לומ� יה� ל יש א� ק� ה� ל�

ר ב� ל ד� ים, אף כ� ע� ה תוב� ש ל� י ים ו� נ� ימ� ה ס� ש ב� י ש

יז: ר� כ� ה� ב ל� י� ים ח� ע� ש לו תוב� י ים ו� נ� ימ� ש בו ס� י שReplace

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Object listed in תורה

Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

?

- חמורdonkey

?

ox – שור ?

sheep - שה ?

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Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

?

- חמורdonkey

You need to return something that does not have a סימן if

there is something with a סימן with it.

ox – שור ?

sheep - שה ?

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Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

- חמורdonkey



ox – שור ?

sheep - שה ?

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Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

- חמורdonkey



ox – שור You even need to return the sheerings of an ox’s tail.

sheep - שה You even need to return the sheerings of a sheep.

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Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

- חמורdonkey




sheep - שה You even need to return manure.

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Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

- חמורdonkey




sheep - שהThe idea that you return something with a סימן is

.דאורייתא

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Law it teaches

- שמלהclothing

Anything with a סימן and the owner has not given up hope –

you need to return it.

- חמורdonkey




sheep - שה EXTRA!

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Goal #1

( quotes a גמרא The ( תנו33כז. and רבי יהודה between מחלוקתthe רבנ"ן.

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Goal #2

( asks what גמרא The ( מאי36כז. the practical difference is between the two practices.

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Goal #3

( makes a אביי ( אמר36כז. distinction between the two opinions.

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Goal #4

( asks a גמרא The ( ולמאן39כז. question on the רבנן.

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Goal #5

( answers גמרא The ( ההוא40כז. the question.

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Goal #6

( asks a גמרא The ( ולמאן42כז. question on רבי יהודה.

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Goal #7

( answers גמרא The ( מבעי43כז. the question.

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Goal #8

( asks a גמרא The ( ואידך47כז. question on רבי יהודה.

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Goal #9

( answers גמרא The ( נפקא47כז. the question.

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Goal #10

( asks a גמרא The ( ואידך48כז. question on the רבנ"ן.

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Goal #11

( answers גמרא The ( נפקא48כז. the question.

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Goal #12

( asks a גמרא The ( ואידך48כז. question on רבי יהודה.

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Goal #13

( answers גמרא The ( ממנו48כז. the question.

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Goal #14

( אביי argues with רבא ( רבא49כז. and presents a different distinction between the רבנ"ן and רבי יהודה.

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Goal #15

( asks a גמרא The ( ולמאן50כז. question on רבא’s answer.

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Goal #16

( gives a גמרא The ( אלא51כז. different distinction between the according to רבי יהודה and רבנ"ן.רבא

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( asks a גמרא The ( ולמאן52כז. question on רבא’s answer.

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( gives a גמרא The ( אלא53כז. different distinction between the according to רבי יהודה and רבנ"ן.רבא

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•The גמרא quotes a ברייתא that brings a רבי and רבנ"ן between the מחלוקת

with regard to the source from the ,יהודה for not needing to return an object that תורהis worth less than a פרוטה.

•The רבנ"ן learns it from the words " אשר)דברים כ"ב ג'(, תאבד" .

•The רבי יהודה learns it from the word " )דברים כ"ב ג'(, ומצאתה" .

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•The גמרא asks what is the practical difference between the רבנ"ן and רבי יהודה.

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explains that the difference between אביי •the רבנ"ן and רבי יהודה is how they

understand the words of the פסוק.

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•The גמרא asks, according to the רבנ"ן who learn the הלכה of the ברייתא from the

words "אשר תאבד" what do they do with the word "ומצאתה"?

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•The גמרא answers that the רבנ"ן use the word "ומצאתה" to teach us the הלכה is

like רבינא.

says that you might have thought that רבינא•a person is not obligated to pick up

and return the lost object of a non-Jew, but once he picked it up, then there is an obligation to return the object to him. The word "ומצאתה" teaches us that even once you pick up a lost object of a non-Jew, there still is no obligation to return it.

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•The גמרא asks, according to רבי יהודה who learns the הלכה of the ברייתא from the

word "ומצאתה" what does he do with words "?"אשר תאבד

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•The גמרא answers that רבי יהודה uses the words "אשר תאבד" to teach us the

.רבי יוחנן is like הלכה

רבי שמעון בן says in the name of רבי יוחנן• teaches us "אשר תאבד" that the words יוחיthat in the case of where a river would sweep away an object and although you can save it, the owner cannot, then you may keep it, even if the object has a סימן. The פסוק implies only things that are lost to the owner, but “findable” to everyone else are you obligated to return. However, something that is “lost” to everyone else also, those items you may keep.

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•According to רבי יהודה that uses the word to teach us that something "ומצאתה"

worth less than a פרוטה you do not need to return, then where does he know the הלכה of ?from רבינא

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•The גמרא explains that according to רבי in the beginning of the "ו" the letter יהודהword "ומצאתה" is really extra. The letter "ו" implies that the object has already been found, meaning it has already come into the finder’s hand. Therefore, according to רבי

רבינא, יהודה ’s הלכה is derived from the extra ."ו"

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•According to the רבנ"ן who use the words to teach us that "אשר תאבד"

something worth less than a פרוטה you do not need to return, then where do they learn the הלכה of רבי יוחנן from?

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•The גמרא answers that according to the is used to פסוק in the "ממנו" the word רבנ"ןteach us the ruling of רבי יוחנן.

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•According to רבי יהודה who derives the הלכה of רבי יוחנן from the word "ומצאתה",

what does he use the word "ממנו" for?

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•The גמרא answers that according to רבי ,the entire phrase יהודה

is needed to teach the ,אשר תאבד" "ממנו.רבי יוחנן of הלכה

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explains that a situation of where at the רבא •time the object was lost it was worth a

but by the time the object was found it ,פרוטהhad depreciated and was worth less than a .פרוטה

• According to the רבנ"ן who focus on the words "אשר תאבד", you would need to

return the object since at the time it was lost it was worth a פרוטה.

• However, according to רבי יהודה, who derives the law of the ברייתא from the word you would not need to return it ,"ומצאתה"since it was worth less than a פרוטה at the time it was found.

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•The גמרא asks that even according to the אשר " who focus on the words ,רבנ"ן

פסוק they would agree that since the ,"תאבדalso writes "ומצאתה", if the object is not worth a פרוטה at the time it was found then you do not need to return it. Therefore, a case where the object is worth a פרוטה at the time it was lost and then depreciates to less than a פרוטה worth by the time it was found, everyone would agree you do not need to return it.

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explains that a situation of where at the רבא •time the object was lost it was worth

less than a פרוטה, but by the time the object was found it had appreciated and was worth more than a פרוטה.

• According to the רבנ"ן who focus on the words "אשר תאבד", you would not

need to return the object since at the time it was lost it was worth less than a פרוטה.

• However, according to רבי יהודה, who derives the law of the ברייתא from the word you would need to return it since it ,"ומצאתה"was worth a פרוטה at the time it was found.

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•The גמרא asks that even according to the רבי who focus on the words ,יהודה he would agree that since the ,"ומצאתה" if the object is ,"אשר תאבד" also writes פסוקnot worth a פרוטה at the time it was lost then you do not need to return it. Therefore, a case where the object is worth less than a at the time it was lost even though it פרוטהappreciated to a פרוטה worth by the time it was found, everyone would agree you do not need to return it.

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explains that when the object was lost it was רבא •worth a פרוטה. Later, while the object was

still lost, it depreciated to less than a פרוטה worth. However, by the time the object was found it had appreciated to value of a פרוטה.

• According to the רבנ"ן, who derives the הלכה of the you would ,"אשר תאבד" from the words ברייתא

be obligated to return the object since it was worth a at פרוטה at the time it was lost, and it is worth a פרוטהthe time it was found.

• According to רבי יהודה, who derives the you ,"ומצאתה" from the word ברייתא of theהלכהwould not be obligated to return the object since it was not worth a פרוטה from the time it was lost until the time it was found. According to רבי יהודה the obligation to return a lost object is only when the object has maintained a value of a פרוטה or more the entire time it was lost. Back to Daf

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That it is considered a lost – אשר תאבדobject.

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That it is considered a found – ומצאתהobject.

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You might have thought – דאתא לידיה משמעthat the תורה obligated you to return

an object of a non-Jew if you had picked it up. This is not true. Even if you have picked up the object, you are still not obligated to return it to a non-Jew.

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תורה Since it wrote in the – מי שאבודה ממנוthe word "ממנו", it wrote "אשר תאבד".

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implies that it was "ו" The extra – ומצאתהalready found.

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At the time it was lost it was worth – שהוזלהa פרוטה and at the time it was found it had depreciated.

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ה ר� הוק� ה ש רוט� א פ� ל� א

ה ר� הוק� ה ו� ר� ז� ח� ה ו� ל� הוז� ו� ש

יהו י� ינ� א ב� יכ� א�

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אשר תאבד ומצאתה

רבנ"ן 1ברייתא

רבי יהודה 1ברייתא

1ברייתא – Something worth less than a פרוטה you are not obligated to return.

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רבנ"ן 1ברייתא ????



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2רבינא

2רבינא – You are not even obligated to return a lost object of a non-Jew, even if you have already picked it up.



רבי יהודה ???? 1ברייתא


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2רבינא






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2רבינא


3רבי יוחנן

3רבי יוחנן – If an object is not retrievable by everyone, even if the object had a סימן, you may keep it.

אשר תאבד ומצאתה ????




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2רבינא


3רבי יוחנן


2רבינא

אשר תאבד ומצאתה of "ו"

ומצאתה




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2רבינא


3רבי יוחנן


2רבינא


ומצאתה????




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3רבי יוחנן


2רבינא

3רבי יוחנן


ומצאתה




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2רבינא


3רבי יוחנן


2רבינא

3רבי יוחנן

ממנו


ומצאתה


רבי יהודה 1ברייתא ????


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2רבינא


3רבי יוחנן


2רבינא

3רבי יוחנן

ממנו


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2רבינא


3רבי יוחנן


2רבינא

3רבי יוחנן

ממנו

___4

---4 – According to רבי יהודה the word "ממנו" is taught with the words "אשר תאבד".

___

8:35 AM

1 פרוטה

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Keep – ומצאתהReturn it – אשר תאבדit

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1 פרוטה

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Return – ומצאתהKeep it – אשר תאבדit

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8:35 AM

1 פרוטה

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Keep – ומצאתהReturn it – אשר תאבדit

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1 פרוטה

1:04 PM

h

.כז .כח

.כז :כז

Goal #1

( asks a גמרא The ( איבעיא55כז. question.

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Goal #2

( asks a גמרא The ( מאי55כז. question on the above question.

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Goal #3

) גמרא The ) לאהדורי1כז: explains what the practical difference is.

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) quotes a גמרא The ) ת"ש4כז: to answer the original משנהquestion.

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Goal #5

) explains גמרא The ) תנא8כז: why this is not a proof.

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Goal #6

) quotes a גמרא The ) ת"ש10כז: to answer the original ברייתאquestion.

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Goal #7

) explains גמרא The ) אימא10כז: why this is not a proof.

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Goal #8

) quotes a גמרא The ) ת"ש11כז: to answer the original ברייתאquestion.

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Goal #9

) explains גמרא The ) לא14כז: why this is not a proof.

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Goal #10

) quotes a גמרא The ) ת"ש14כז: to answer the original משנהquestion.

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Goal #11

) explains גמרא The ) אמרי17כז: why this is not a proof.

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Goal #12

) challenges גמרא The ) אי18כז: the above explanation.

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) answers גמרא The ) אמרי19כז: the challenge.

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Goal #14

) גמרא The ) איבעית21כז: presents a different reason why clothing would not be a good .סימן

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Goal #15

) asks a גמרא The ) אלא22כז: question on the idea that clothing is lent out based on a ברייתא.

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Goal #16

) answers גמרא The ) אמרי26כז: the question.

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Goal #17

) says that גמרא The ) לימא28כז: our question is a מחלוקת between the תנאים.

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Goal #18

) explains גמרא The ) מאי29כז: the מחלוקת.

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Goal #19

) explains why רבא ) אמר30כז: the מחלוקת is not the same as our question.

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Goal #20

) Another possible ) איבעית32כז: explanation why the מחלוקת is not the same as our question.

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Goal #21

) Another possible ) אב"א35כז: explanation why the מחלוקת is not the same as our question.

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Goal #22

) answers the רבא ) אמר37כז: s original question by’גמראposing a question.

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Goal #23

) asks a גמרא The ) דניחא38כז: question on רבא’s answer by answering רבא’s question.

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Goal #24

) asks a רב ספרא ) אמר39כז: question on רבא.

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Goal #25

) gives a new רבא ) אלא40כז: answer.

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Goal #26

) asks a גמרא The ) אלא43כז: question on רבא’s new answer.

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Goal #27

) answers the רבא ) אמר45כז: question.

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Goal #28

) asks גמרא The ) אלא1כח. another question on רבא’s new answer.

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Goal #29

) gives a new רבא ) אלא4כח. answer.

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Goal #30

) makes a רבא ) אמר8כח. statement.

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Goal #31

) interrupts גמרא The ) אם9כח. with a question.

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Goal #32

) answers גמרא The ) משום11כח. the question.

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Goal #33

) continues his רבא ) סימנין11כח. statement.

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Goal #34

) makes another רבא ) הוא19כח. similar statement.

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Goal #35

) asks a גמרא The ) במאי19כח. question on this ruling.

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Goal #36

) answers גמרא The ) אלא20כח. the question.

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Goal #37


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Goal #38

) asks a גמרא The ) במאי21כח. question on this ruling.

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Goal #39

) answers גמרא The ) אלא22כח. the question.

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Goal #40


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Goal #41

) asks an גמרא The ) מ"ט23כח. information question.

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Goal #42

) answers גמרא The ) מידע23כח. the question.

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•The גמרא wants to know if the concept of returning an object to a person when

he gives a סימן is from the תורה or from the .רבנ"ן

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•What is the practical difference if the concept of סימנים is from the תורה or from the רבנ"ן?

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• A practical difference if סימנים is from the תורה or from the רבנ"ן is when a messenger who was sent to give a גט, but lost it before giving it to the woman.

• If סימנים is from the תורה then you would be allowed to return the גט to whoever gives

a סימן.

•If סימנים is from the רבנ"ן then you would not be allowed to return the גט. By monetary

issues the רבנ"ן could tell you to return an object only using a סימן, because of the concept הפקר איסור והיתר However, by issues of .בית דין הפקרthe רבנ"ן would never make a תקנה that you should return something because of a סימן.

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• The ברייתא asked why does the תורה need to specifically mention שמלה as an

object you need to return; is it not included in the statementכל אבידת" "אחיך?

• The word שמלה is needed to teach us that anything that has a סימן and someone

claiming it, you need to return.

• This implies that the concept of סימנים is from the תורה.

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• Really the word שמלה only teaches us that you return an object that has a

claimer. It excludes a case where the owner of the object has given up hope on getting the object back. The ברייתא mentioned as a side point, but not to indicate that סימניםit was learned from the word שמלה.

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• The ברייתא explains why does the תורה need to specifically mention חמור as

an object you need to return; is it not included in the statementכל אבידת" "אחיך?

• The word חמור is needed to teach us that even something that does not have a

you would return if there is something סימןattached to it that does have a סימן.

• This implies that the concept of סימנים is from the תורה.

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•When the תורה wrote חמור perhaps it was to teach us that if you have witnesses

that can testify that an object is yours, but they do not know about the object attached to it, you need to return both objects to the owner.

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• The גמרא quotes a ברייתא that quotes part of the פסוק in )'והיה עמך ,דברים )כ"ב ב"

Now, would it have ."עד דרוש אחיך אותוentered your mind that we should return an object to someone before someone inquires about it? Rather the פסוק is instructing us to investigate if the claimer is a liar or not.

• How could one tell if the claimer of the object is lying or not? Is it not by the claimer giving the סימנין. Therefore, the concept of .דאורייתא must be סימנין

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• Really the way an individual proves that he is not lying about the object being his

is by bringing witnesses that the object is his.

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h


• The ברייתא teaches that a woman may not get remarried based on the testimony

of witnesses that her husband had died, unless the witnesses were able to identify the body by his face, including the person’s nose. Even if there were סימנין based on his height or the clothing he was wearing it would not help. So we see that the concept of סימנין is not דאורייתא.

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• Perhaps the concept of סימנין are really and the reason why a דארייתא

person’s height and clothing would not be sufficient to have a woman remarry, is because they are not considered good סימנין. A person’s height can not be considered a because there are many people who are סימןtall or short. A person’s clothing can not work as a סימן because maybe the husband lent his clothes to someone else, and the witnesses really saw the other person who borrowed the husband’s clothing.

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• If we are concerned about people borrowing clothing, making clothing not a good סימן when identifying a person, then why by the case of a saddle and a donkey is the saddle enough of a סימן to obligate you to return the donkey as well? Should we not be concerned that perhaps the saddle was borrowed and that it does not belong to the same owner as the donkey.

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• The גמרא explains that one does not need to be concerned that the saddle of a

donkey was borrowed. Most saddles were custom made and not lent out, otherwise the saddle could chaff the donkey since it would not fit properly.

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• The גמרא explains that to use the color of the clothing as a סימן would not be

considered good, since so many people have the same color clothes.

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• The ברייתא says that if one finds a גט, that he was supposed to deliver, tied to his

wallet or signet ring, or he finds it amongst his utensils, he may deliver it, even if a long period has elapsed since he lost it. If it is true that we are concerned in general about people borrowing clothing, why can we assume that this is the גט that he lost? Maybe this גט is from the person he leant his clothes to?

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• A person does not lend out his wallet or signet ring.

•A person is superstitious that by lending

someone his wallet his good fortune will leave him.

• A person does not lend his signet ring because he is afraid of someone using it to forge something in his name.

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• Witnesses say that they saw a dead man and identify him by a mole that he

had, can this permit the wife to get remarried? The תנא קמא holds that a mole is not considered enough of a סימן while .holds it is אלעזר בן מהבאי

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• The תנא קמא is of the opinion that the concept of סימנין is דרבנ"ן and therefore, they could not permit a woman to get remarried based on the usage of a סימן to identify her husband. Doing so would permit an איסור.תקנת חכמים through a דאורייתא

is of the opinion that the אלעזר בן מהבאי •concept of סימנין is דאורייתא and

therefore, there is no problem permitting a woman to get remarried based on the usage of a סימן to identify the husband.

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• Both the תנא קמא and אלעזר בן מהבאי are of the opinion that the concept of סימנין is .דאורייתא

• Rather, they argue if a mole is something that is found on all people born at the

same time with the same מזל. The תנא קמא is of the opinion that it is, and therefore can not be considered a אלעזר בן מהבאי. סימן is of the opinion that it is not, and therefore can be considered a good סימן.

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• Really both the תנא קמא and אליעזר בן סימנין agree that the concept of מהבאי

is דאורייתא and that a mole is not found on all people born at the same time and with the same מזל.

• Rather, they argue about if a mole changes its appearance after a person dies.

The תנא קמא is of the opinion that a mole does change its appearance and therefore can not be considered a good אליעזר בן . סימן is of the opinion that a mole does not מהבאיchange its appearance after death, and therefore can be considered a good סימן.

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• Really everyone agrees that a mole is not found on everyone born at the same

time and with the same מזל, and that a mole does not change its appearance after death, and that the concept of סימנין is דרבנ"ן.

• Rather they argue if a mole is considered a תנא The .סימן an expert – סימן מובהק

is of the opinion that it is not and קמאtherefore you can not rely on this type of

אלעזר בן מהבאי. סימן is of the opinion that it is and therefore you can rely on this type of .סימן

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• If the concept of סימנין is only דרבנ"ן, how could the רבנ"ן allow a person to

return an object based on a סימן? Maybe the object really is not the person’s and you therefore gave it to the wrong person.

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• It is good for the person who found the object to return the object based on the סימן, since if he lost an object he would want to get it back by using a סימן.

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• Is a person allowed to try and do something for his benefit at the cost of someone

else’s possessions?

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• It is good for the person who lost the object to have it returned by giving a סימן.

Since he knows that he does not have any witnesses that the lost object was his, he figures that not too many people besides himself know any of the סימנין that are on the object, so it would be to his advantage to allow סימנין to work for claiming lost objects.

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• We learned in the משנה on כ. that רבן שמעון taught if someone finds בן גמליאל

three documents with the name of one borrower on all three, you return them to the borrower. If someone finds three documents with the name of one lender on all three, you return them to the lender.

• Now in the second case where all three documents had the name of one

lender, would the borrower really feel it is a good thing to return it to the lender. Perhaps the borrower really lost it and had paid it up already and somehow, through some form of trickery, the lender figured out the סימנין so he can try to collect a second time on the loan.

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• The reason why the documents are returned to each party in each of the above cases is not because of סימנין, but rather based on logic. It is more logical that only a borrower would have three documents with his name on all three loans, and it is more logical that only the lender would have three documents with his name on all three loans.

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• We learned in the משנה on כ. that if someone finds documents either rolled together or bundled together, you may return them to whoever gives a סימן.

• Now, is it really to the advantage of the borrower to have the documents

returned to the lender. Perhaps he has already paid the loan back, and through some form of trickery the lender knows the and will try to collect the loan a second סימניןtime.

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• Rather the concept of סימנין is really .דאורייתא

• The גמרא quotes a ברייתא that quotes part of the פסוק in )'דברים )כ"ב ב ,

Now, would it .""והיה עמך עד דרוש אחיך אותוhave entered your mind that we should return an object to someone before someone inquires about it? Rather the פסוק is instructing us to investigate if the claimer is a liar or not. Is not the way to investigate by using סימנין?!

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is סימנין says that if the concept of רבא •.… then דאורייתא

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h

• What do you mean “if”, we not just established that the concept of סימנין is !?דאורייתא

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• Earlier when the גמרא presented the פסוק of "והיה עמך עד דרוש אחיך אותו" as a proof that the concept of סימנין is דאורייתא, the גמרא said maybe the way we prove that the claimer is not a liar is through witnesses. Therefore, this is not a perfect proof.

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• If two people both give a good סימן for an object you should keep it until Eliyahu comes.

• If one person gives a סימן and another person brings witnesses that the object is his, give it to the person who brought the

witnesses.

• If one person gives a סימן and the anther person gives a סימן along with bringing one witness, we consider as if the witness is not there and you should keep it until Eliyahu comes.

• If one person brings witnesses that he made the object and the other person brings witnesses that the object fell from

him, return it to the person with the witnesses that said it fell from him. Since perhaps the first person made it and sold it, there is no contradiction when the other witnesses said that it fell from the second person.

• If one person tells the finder the length of the garment found and the other person tells the finder the width, you should

return it to the person who knows the length. Since it is possible for an observer to guess how wide a garment is, this is not as good a proof that it the garment is his as knowing the length.

• If one person tells the finder the measurements of both the length and the width of the garment and the other person tells

the finder the total of the length and the width, you should return it to the person who told you the two measurements separate.

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Scroll

• A husband gives the סימנין of a גט and claims that it fell from him and that he

never gave it to his wife. However, the wife also gives the סימנין of the גט and claims that it fell from her and that her husband gave her the גט and she is divorced. You should return the גט to the woman since she knew the סימנין it must be because she has already received the גט.

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• Why do we assume that since she knew the measurements of the paper that the

was written on means that she has גטalready received the גט. Maybe she saw the husband write it?

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• The סימן that they both said was not the dimensions of the paper, but rather

that there was a hole in the document next to s name. This is something she could’"פלוני"only have known if she had already received the גט.

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• A husband gives the סימנין for the string that tied a גט and claims that it fell from him and that he never gave it to his wife. However, the wife also gives the סימנין for the string that tied the גט and claims that it fell from her and that her husband gave her the גט and she is divorced. You should return the גט to the woman since she knew the סימנין it must be because she has already received the גט.

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• Why do we assume that since she knew the color of the string that tied the גט to be

white or red indicates that she has already received the גט. Maybe she saw the color string when the husband was writing it?

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• The סימן that they both said was not the color of the string, but rather the

length of the string used to tie the גט. This is something she could only have known if she had already received the גט.

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• A husband says that the גט was found in a leather made pouch. The wife says

that the גט was found in a leather made pouch. You should return the גט to the husband.

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• What is the reason that we return the גט to the husband and not the wife?

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• Since the wife knows that all of the husband’s important documents are kept in this leather pouch, she could have been guessing. However, if the wife’s claim would be correct that he had given the גט to her already, why would the גט still be in the husband’s leather pouch?

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גט That is was lost from the – לאהדוריmessenger before he gave it to her.

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we will explain גמרא Later in the – תקנתאwhat this is.

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makes בית דין That what – בממונאownerless, is considered ownerless.

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teaches us פסוק The – תובעין אצטריכא ליהthat it is something the owner is going to claim excluding something that the owner has given up hope on and made ownerless.

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but rather ,פסוק It is not from the – כדי נסבהwas taught in the משנה as a side

point.

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We established earlier that the word – ת"ש is to teach us that a donkey is "חמור"

returned with the סימנין of its saddle.

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If there are witnesses that – אימא בעדי אוכףrecognize that the saddle is his then

you return the donkey as well.

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"עד דרוש אחיך אותו" This is what – דרשיהוmean, until you inquire about your

brother.

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That witnesses come and testify – בעדיםthat it is his.

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About a person that died in order – אין מעידיןthat his wife can get married, unless

they can identify the face by the nose.

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since there סימן This is not a – דארוך או גוץare many people who are tall or short.

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.Clothing – כליו

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Maybe he leant them to someone – חיישינןelse, and that other person is who

they saw dead.

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since there סימן This is not a – חיורי או סומקיmany like this.

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A – 'מצאו קשור בכיס שלו או בארנקי כוmessenger was given the גט and he lost it. After a while he found it tied in his moneybag or purse ….

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.Vessels used in his house – בין כליו

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Even though we learned – אפילו לזמן מרובהthat one who is given a גט, losses it

and finds it after a while is no good, here it is okay.

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Maybe he leant his – ניחוש לשאלהmoneybag to someone, and the other person tied the גט in it.

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He would be concerned and say – דמסמניthat it is a indication that a person

who lends his moneybag, sold his luck.

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Every person had a unique signet – דמזייףring that when he would send

something he would seal it with his signet ring. Therefore, a person would not lend his ring because maybe this one will sign his signet ring on something he did not write.

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They testify about a – אין מעידין על השומאwoman that she can get married.

They say for a סימן that the person had a mole on “x” limb.

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By a married woman, which is – סימנין דרבנןan איסור דאורייתא, we do not rely on

it.

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One born at that time, was born – בבן גילוunder one "מזל", luck.

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If they change or not. If – 'בסימנין העשיוין כוwhen he was alive it was black and

now when he died it is white, or the opposite.

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there is דרבנן is סימנין And even if – מובהקto rely on them.

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Meaning, how did the Rabbis – היכי מהדרינןsee it proper to make a rule that

money that is in doubt with regard to who its owner is, is returned to someone it might not belong to.

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Who cares if it is good for the – וכי אדם עושהfinder, we care if it is good for the one

that lost it.

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רבא – אלא says that for whoever lost it, it is good for. It is accepted in ישראל that

whoever gives the סימן will get the object. Why? Since most times a person does not have witnesses, thereby preventing him from getting his object back. Rather he says, better that it be returned to whoever gives the סימן, because it is uncommon for anyone else to know the סימן besides for myself.

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And they say return it to – 'אלא הא דתנן כוthe lender without witnesses, but with the that he says “there were three סימןdocuments from three borrowers”. But if the documents fell from the borrower, since he already paid them up, is it good for the borrower for the finder to give the documents to whoever gives the סימנין?! Is it not better for him to have the documents stay by the finder forever and not return them to the lender, because they will be like they were burnt up? It is better if the finder does not return them based on סימנין since maybe the lender is a trickster and figured out the .סימנין

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We are not concerned that .סמנין By – התםit fell from the borrower, because why would he have had the loan documents of others.

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Because of the – אלא הא דתנן מצא תכריך we return it to him and if the lender סימןgives the סימן we return to him. Now, if it fell from the borrower is it good for him for the Rabbis to make a rule that you return something using a סימן?! It would be better if the object stayed with the finder forever.

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.With witnesses – כדשנינן

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Even if you – אם תמצא לומר סימנים דאורייתאsay that the concept of סימנין is

.none the less witnesses are better ,דאורייתא

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Two people come and give – סימנין וסימנין.סימנין

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.Until Eliyahu comes – יניח

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This one says its width and – 'מדת ארכו כוthis one says its length.

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If he saw it by its owner, he – שעורי משער להcould estimate hen he saw the owner

wearing it.

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This one says – מדת ארכו ורחבו ומדת גמיוthis is its width and this is its length, and the other one says this is the length and width together, because he does not know each one by itself.

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.of our ours "ך" A Greek “gam” is like a – גמיו This is why we call the length and width "גמיו".

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And he said “It fell from – הוא אומר סימני הגטme, because I changed my mind and

did not give it”.

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,That it fell from me – והיא אומרת סימני הגטbecause he gave it to me and I am

divorced.

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Since he gave it he knows the – ינתן לה if סימנין but how would she know the ,סימניןhe did not give it to her.

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.is tied with גט That the – סימני החוט

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.You found it – בחפיסה

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בכלל כל אלו אלה ולמה

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היכי מהדרינן אמרי אוכף לא שאולי

Education

Mishna 5