Tommy Seah Interviewing techniques and Fraud Investigation

Interviewer Personality Dynamics

Know Thyself. Everyone lies.What is an interview?

What is the difference between an interview and an

interrogation?The Interviewing Process

The PEAC©E Approach to an interview

PSYCHOLOGICAL elements of the interviewing processand how to conduct them

successfully.

Impact of PersonalityIdentification of liars Personality Profile

Personality Profiles Identified and Explained

Personality Types Under Pressure

Interviewing Techniques

Interviewing is a skill that can be learned, polished, and improved

through practice.

Felix Lopez (1975) compares the professional interviewer to a

professional musician.

He says that interviewing is very much like piano playing -- a fair degree of skill can be acquired without the necessity

of formal instruction.

But there is a world of difference in craftsmanship, in technique, and in

finesse between the amateur who plays "by ear" and the accomplished concert

pianist.

Copyright © 2006 www.cfe-in-practice.com

Slide no. 7 www.cfe-in-practice.net

Why is there a need to interview anyone ?

InvestigationInvestigation



The main aim of an investigation is to answer two primary questions:

(i)“What happened?” (if anything did happen) and

(ii)“Who did it?”



“How do investigators seek to answer these two primary questions?”



By going through a systematic process of gathering evidencegathering evidence in order to prove or disprove the validity of a set of allegations.



An interview is a question-and-answer session designed to elicit information.



It differs from ordinary conversation in that the interview is structured, not free-form, and it is designed for a purpose.



Characteristics of a Good Interviewer

“People PersonsPeople Persons”Must be perceived as ………A person that is “out to get the facts” NOT “out to get someone”.



Characteristics of a Good Interviewer (Know Thyself)Know Thyself)Investigative interviewing involves an objective search for the truth.

The investigator must first be aware of his own personal strengths and weaknessespersonal strengths and weaknesses.

Ask yourself the following: - What people skills have I developed?What people skills have I developed?



Know Thyself: Know Thyself:

• What personal qualities do I possess which will aid me in my quest for the truth?

• What is my attitude? What is my attitude? • Do I use my authority judiciously, or do I approach interviewees as an authoritarian?



Know Thyself: Know Thyself:

• Am I able to consciously use my abilities Am I able to consciously use my abilities and skills as needed within the interview and skills as needed within the interview to reach my objective?to reach my objective?

• Do I have ten years of experience or one year of experience repeated ten times?



The people you will be interviewing can be The people you will be interviewing can be categorized into the following three broad categorized into the following three broad categories: categories:

•victims, victims, •witnesses, witnesses, •and suspects. and suspects.

They will exhibit varying degrees of They will exhibit varying degrees of cooperation, reluctance, and hostility.cooperation, reluctance, and hostility.



Always remember …..Always remember …..

Little is accomplished when the Little is accomplished when the interviewer is “formal”, interviewer is “formal”, ostentatious, or attempts to ostentatious, or attempts to impress the respondent with his impress the respondent with his “authority”.“authority”.



Focus on skill development in the age-old Focus on skill development in the age-old art of persuasionart of persuasion..

Such skills will assist you in fostering a greater degree of cooperation with lesser degrees of reluctance and hostility.



Come to term and accept this reality:Come to term and accept this reality:

No one has to talk to youNo one has to talk to you; ;

therefore, your mission is to therefore, your mission is to persuade or "sell" them to do so. persuade or "sell" them to do so.



Your ability to "set the stage" through the Your ability to "set the stage" through the use of verbal, nonverbal, symbolic, and use of verbal, nonverbal, symbolic, and written communication to affect the written communication to affect the interviewee's perceptions and thus to bring interviewee's perceptions and thus to bring about desired changes in ways of thinking, about desired changes in ways of thinking, feeling, and/or acting, is critical to the feeling, and/or acting, is critical to the development of effective interviewing development of effective interviewing skills. skills.



The purpose of interviewing in the law The purpose of interviewing in the law enforcement environment to gather information.enforcement environment to gather information.

As for CCS, it is all about “infringement”.As for CCS, it is all about “infringement”.

To understand and effectively employ this process, the investigator must first examine the interview as a interview as a unique form of interpersonal communication.unique form of interpersonal communication.



Elements of Conversation

•Expression•Persuasion•Therapy•Ritual•Information Exchange



Inhibitors of Communication(social-psychological barrier)

Competing Demands for TimeEgo ThreatRepressionDisapprovalLoss of StatusEtiquetteTraumaForgettingChronological Confusion



Facilitators of Communication(social-psychological forces)

Fulfilling ExpectationsRecognitionAltruistic AppealsSympathetic UnderstandingNew ExperienceCatharsisNeed for MeaningExtrinsic Rewards



Professionalism in the interview often involves a state of mind and a commitment to excellence………..you must develop the ability to put others at ease.



This Triangle helps explain the human This Triangle helps explain the human process for committing any kind of wrongprocess for committing any kind of wrong

Opportunity

Motivation Rationalization



What type of individual commits What type of individual commits infringement of Competition Act? infringement of Competition Act?

It is not limited to any one type of person.It is not limited to any one type of person.



1.1. Is married (at least at first)Is married (at least at first)

2. Is between 18 and 36 years of age2. Is between 18 and 36 years of age

3. Has two children3. Has two children

4. Owns a home4. Owns a home

5. Does not have a history of problems prior to the5. Does not have a history of problems prior to the inordinate affection.inordinate affection.

6. Does not recognize harm to the victim6. Does not recognize harm to the victim

7. Is intelligent7. Is intelligent

8. Enjoys challenge and game playing8. Enjoys challenge and game playing

9. Understands and skillfully uses technology9. Understands and skillfully uses technology

10. Has a position of trust and responsibility10. Has a position of trust and responsibility

11. Is a well-respected community leader11. Is a well-respected community leader



What is an interview ?What is an interview ?

P.E.A.C.(P.E.A.C.(CC).E Model).E ModelPreparation and PlanningPreparation and Planning

Engage and ExplainEngage and ExplainAccount Clarification and Account Clarification and

ChallengeChallengeClosureClosure

((ConfrontationConfrontation))EvaluationEvaluation



Planning

The crucial elements of good planningplanning, which are–

• understanding the purpose of the interviewpurpose of the interview

• obtaining as much background information as possible on the incident under investigation,including (for suspects) information on the person to be interviewed



So, what is an interview ?So, what is an interview ?

At its simplest, an interview has been called

“a conversation with a purpose” (Hodgson, 1987, p2),

but in criminal cases, much more than conversational skills are required.



Question Typology

•Introductory Questions•Informational Questions•Closing Questions•Assessment Questions•Admission-Seeking Questions



Planning continues……

• defining the aims and objectives of the interview

• understanding and recognizing the points to prove




• assessing what evidence is available and from where it was obtained

• assessing what evidence is needed and how it can be obtained




• understanding the legislation and associated guidelines and considerations

• preparing the mechanics of the interview (attending to exhibits, logistics, venue, equipment functioning, seating)



E - Engage and explain


This opening phase is crucial to the success of an interview.




Introductory Statement

The use of the introductory statement style of interviewing is designed to elicit signs of

guilt from the suspect early in the interview.




One of the benefits to this type of interview is that it allows the investigator to evaluate the subject’s behavior before making any accusations and committing oneself to an interrogation.




During the process the interviewer covers several specific topics:

1. Who we are and what we do. 2. Different types of infringements. 3. How we investigate.




These three points are designed to cause a guilty suspect to react

involuntarily



Introductory Statement

1. Who we are and what we do.

2.Types of INFRINGEMENT.

3. How we investigate.

These three points are

designed to cause a guilty

subject to react involuntarily.



A - Account

A - AccountA - AccountThis stage is where the interviewer obtains theThis stage is where the interviewer obtains theinterviewee’s full account of events. interviewee’s full account of events.

The three main steps are–The three main steps are–• obtaining the interviewee’s own • obtaining the interviewee’s own uninterrupteduninterrupted

accountaccount• expanding and clarifying their account• expanding and clarifying their account• when necessary (e.g., with suspects) • when necessary (e.g., with suspects) challenging the interviewee’s accountchallenging the interviewee’s account



A - AccountA - Account

Participatory Accusation Participatory Accusation

Similar to the introductory statement, the Similar to the introductory statement, the participatory accusation is highly effective when participatory accusation is highly effective when

dealing with employee dishonesty. dealing with employee dishonesty.

After the rapport-building processAfter the rapport-building process the interviewer the interviewer (very innocently)(very innocently) asks the subject several questions asks the subject several questions regarding the company’s policies and procedures. regarding the company’s policies and procedures.



Types of LiarsTypes of Liars Sometimes, even an honest person will lie.Sometimes, even an honest person will lie.

There are different motivations for lying. It There are different motivations for lying. It is important for the interviewer to be able to is important for the interviewer to be able to recognize the different types of liars and to recognize the different types of liars and to understand the reasons they lie.understand the reasons they lie.



Types of Liars

Pathological LiarSadistic LiarSadistic Liar Occupational

Liar

Panic Liar

Ethnological Ethnological LiarLiar



Participatory Accusation Participatory Accusation

Included in this list are the policies (guidelines) Included in this list are the policies (guidelines) that the subject is suspected of having that the subject is suspected of having violated. violated.




Participatory Accusation

The subject is asked to explain to the interviewer their understanding of each policy.

The first few should be easy to answer items that the subject is most likely to answer correctly.





When asked about a policy that the subject has violated the investigator should be looking for signs of guilt or dishonesty.

If the subject answers the question correctly it will be very difficult for them to later say that they did not understand the policy.





However, regardless of the subject’s answer,

they typically display behavior that will help the interviewer determine if he or she should accuse the employee of dishonesty or violating CCS legislation.




Do not rush the closing of an interview.

The Closing or Confrontation stage needs to be just as complete and effective as any other.

C – Closure or ConfrontationC – Closure or Confrontation



The aim of effective closure should be to:The aim of effective closure should be to:

• • ensure there is mutual understanding about what ensure there is mutual understanding about what has taken place (by reviewing and summarizing has taken place (by reviewing and summarizing the account)the account)

C – Closure orC – Closure or ConfrontationConfrontation



The aim of effective closure should be to:The aim of effective closure should be to:• verify that all aspects have been sufficiently • verify that all aspects have been sufficiently covered (by checking that interviewees have given covered (by checking that interviewees have given all the information they are able and willing to all the information they are able and willing to provide)provide)




The aim of effective closure should be to:The aim of effective closure should be to:

• • explain what will happen in the future explain what will happen in the future (by giving the interviewee appropriate information (by giving the interviewee appropriate information on the next stages of the process e.g., on the next stages of the process e.g., telling telling witnesses whether or not they will have to attend witnesses whether or not they will have to attend court)court)




CloseClose - Be certain to thank people for talking with you. In addition, provide them with a way to contact you and request a way for you to make further contact with them. (A business card is a handy tool for this.).

CC – Close – Close



Moving from Interview to Interrogation Moving from Interview to Interrogation

Once the interviewer has decided that the subject has Once the interviewer has decided that the subject has displayed enough behavioral evidence of guilt they will displayed enough behavioral evidence of guilt they will begin the interrogation.begin the interrogation.

CC – Confrontation – Confrontation



Direct Accusation Direct Accusation

The direct accusation is best used when there is The direct accusation is best used when there is substantial evidence of the suspect’s guilt of substantial evidence of the suspect’s guilt of

infringementinfringement

CC – Confrontation (Style) – Confrontation (Style)

The Accusatory Interview Process (Conducting an Interrogation)

Depending on personal preference and the situation interviewers will choose to use the

interview style that is most comfortable.

Regardless of the style chosen the goal of the interrogation is the same: to obtain a

confession, legally and ethically, that will stand up to scrutiny in court.



To accomplish this, interviewers will use many of the same tools, despite their different choices, or combinations, of

interview styles.

Rapport Developing rapport with a subject early in

the interview can be very valuable to ultimately obtaining a confession.



Spending time with the subject discussing non-threatening topics will put the person at

ease.

The questions asked by the interviewer during the rapport building process should not be

personal.

These questions can be as simple as verifying their address, phone number, the spelling of a

name or work history.



A common occurrence in normal conversations is mirroring.

Both parties will mimic the posture, gestures and mannerisms of the other.

When building rapport the interviewer can mimic the posture and gestures of the subject.



Once the interviewer feels that rapport has been established he or she should move slightly (cross or

uncross legs etc).

If the subject mirrors this movement rapport has been established.


This stage concludes the PEACE interview.

It is where the interviewer–examines whether the aims and objectives for the interview have been achieved• reviews the investigation in the light of information obtained during the interview• reflects upon how well he or she conducted the interview and considers what improvements could be made in future

E - EvaluationE - Evaluation

Signs of Deception

There is no guaranteed way to determine if a subject is lying.

There are no typical nonverbal behaviors that are associated with deception.

Not all liars display the same behavior in the same situation.


Signs of Deception

Changes in behavior in response to questions should

be noted.


Following are behaviors that may indicate dishonesty:

Posture: • Slumping over or leaning back in

the chair. • Sitting in a way that protects the

abdomen. • Shifting position in the chair


Following are some verbal indicators of dishonesty:

Asking the interviewer “are you accusing me”? Giving very short answers.

Say “ You do not know what kind of stress I am under..”

Forcefully Say “ I have a lot of work to do.” to an unrelated question.

Overgeneralizations (any, all, never, always etc).

Saying “I can’t recall”.



Skipping around in sentences. Stopping sentences or leaving off the

end. Inappropriate laughter.



Hand and Arms: Placing the hand over the mouth to muffle words

or hide expressions. Arms crossed with the thumbs extended.

Simply refuse to engage in a conversation



Legs and Feet: • Movement of legs and feet

• Legs crossed with the knee raised to protect the abdomen.

• Legs crossed with arms holding the leg in place as a barrier.


Neurolinguistic eye movement can be an indicator of deception.

Once the interviewer has determined the normal responses to questions he or she may be able to evaluate the truthfulness of a subject’s response

based on eye movement.


Neurolinguistic eye movement can be an indicator of deception.

For example, if a subject is asked to recall the color of the shirt they wore the day before their eyes would move up and to their left while they

retrieved the memory.

If the subject decided to lie, their eyes would shift up and to the rightshift up and to the right while they created an

answer.


Recalling and creating sound memories are associated with eye movements directly left or right.

Looking down and to the right is associated with creating tactile

memories.

And looking down and to the left is associated with internal dialogs or getting in touch with one’s feelings


There are also verbal indicators of deception that interviewers must

interpret.

For example, if the subject says “no” but shakes his or her head in a “yes” gesture.



• Skipping around in sentences. • Stopping sentences or leaving off

the end. • Inappropriate laughter.



• Starting to speak in the third person. • Telling the interviewer that they have

done things (similar to the things currently under investigation) wrong in

the past. • Repeating the interviewer’s question. • Asking the interviewer to repeat the

question.



Asking the interviewer “are you accusing me”? Giving very short answers.

Say “ You do not know what kind of stress I am under..”

Forcefully Say “ I have a lot of work to do.” to an unrelated question.

Overgeneralizations (any, all, never, always etc).

Saying “I can’t recall”.


Case Tryouts

The following phrases are usually indicators that the subject is going to

finish the sentence with a lie:

• “I swear on the bible that I didn’t…” • “To tell you the truth…”

• “To the best of my knowledge…” • “You may not believe this but…”

• “I know that this sounds strange but…”


Overcoming Resistance

Identifying the subject’s dishonesty is an important part of an interrogation.

However, the interviewer must be able to convince the subject to confess.


Overcoming Resistance

Most interviewers use stories and rationalizations to move the subject

closer to an admission of infringement.


Submission

A large part of the interrogation will involve the interviewer offering these rationalizations and stories combined with minimizing the subject’s actions.


Submission

Some signs of submission are: • Less forceful denials or lack of denials.

• Slumped posture. • Eyes looking down.

• Teary eyes or crying. • Letting out a sigh.


Transitioning from a Verbal Admission to a Confession

The subject’s admission represents an important step in the interview process.

It is a breakthrough.

The subject has ceased to deny taking part in the activity.

It is important for the interviewer to move the subject beyond an admission to an actual

confession.


Investigators often use an interview technique

known as the assumptive question to obtain the

first admission.


Following are two types of assumptive questions:

1. The choice question

2. The soft accusation


The choice question: The interviewer presents

the subject with two rationalizations, one good

and one bad, then encourages the subject to

choose.


The choice question: “Ah Lian, when you went over

there did you intend to shoot Ah Beng or just scare him with the

gun? You just wanted to scare him, right?”

When the subject answers yes to the good option she has chosen an

easy way to admit to her involvement.


The soft accusation:

The interviewer does not ask if the subject did something,

but rather asks a broad question about the incidents that assumes the subject’s

involvement.


The soft accusation:

“Ah Huay, when was the first time that you took money?”

This question is often followed up with a choice question, or some sort of yes-no question like: “Have you been taking

money since your first day of work?”


The interviewer must continue to develop the admissions into a

confession.

In a confession the subject takes responsibility for his or her actions.

The confession should be well supported with a detailed

description of the subject’s actions and motive.


The Statement

The statement may be the most important part of the interview.

It is one of the key items that the investigator will use to help prove the

case in court.


Following are some examples of statements that can be used at the conclusion of an

interview.

The subject can be asked to provide a written explanation of what occurred in a

free narrative format.

The subject writes, in his or her own words, the details of their confession.


The statement can be taken in a guided narrative format.

The narrative can be written by either the subject or interviewer.

The interviewer goes through each point of the confession details with the

subject to verify that they are in agreement.


After each point the investigator either asks the subject to write down what

they just said or the interviewer writes it down.


The interviewer may choose to prepare a typed version of the

statement and present it for the subject’s

signature.


Once the statement is complete, the interviewer should re-read the

statement with the subject to verify accuracy.

Having them read aloud a portion of the statement to ensure that they can,

in fact, read is also important.

During the re-read the interviewer should ask the subject to make the

corrections and initial each one.


The statement may be taken in a question and answer format.

The Q and A statement may be written or typed by a witness or

stenographer.


In this type of statement the interviewer asks a series of questions.

Each question and the subject’s response is then recorded by the

witness.

This type of statement is useful for subjects that are unwilling or unable to

write their own statements.


Remember, very often the outcome of an investigation

is determined by the success or failure of the

interviewer.


Persons interested in interviewing should seek

quality training and observe experienced interviewers

whenever possible; then get practice, practice and more

practice.

The best interview trainers are interviewers.

ConclusionConclusion

Questions?



Thank you Thank you

Contact Information:

Tommy Seah CFE, CSI

Regent Emeritus

ACFE Board of Regents, Texas, USA

www.cfe-in-practice.com

[email protected]

Phone : + (65) 91069872

Education

Tommy Seah Interviewing techniques and Fraud Investigation