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STATE OF MICHIGAN
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND
MAYA EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI,
Plaintiff,
v Case No. 09-766749-DM
OMER G. TSIMHONI,
Defendant./
MOTION HEARING
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GORCYCA
Pontiac, Michigan - Wednesday, November 12, 2014
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff: RENEE K. GUCCIARDO (P47884)
30700 Telegraph Road, Suite 1580
Bingham Farms, Michigan 48025
(248) 723-5190
For the Defendant: AMY SPILMAN (P52044)
600 South Adams, Suite 100
Birmingham, Michigan 48009
(248) 358-8880
Guardian Ad Litem: WILLIAM LANSAT (P36752)
280 North Old Woodward, Suite 250
Birmingham, Michigan 48009
(248) 258-7074
Transcription by: Sandra Traskos, CER 7118
Accurate Transcription Services
(734)944-5818
2
TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE
WITNESSES
None
EXHIBITS RECEIVED
None offered.
3
Pontiac, Michigan 1
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 11:10 a.m. 2
* * * * * * 3
THE CLERK: Court calls docket number 36, 4
Eibschitz-Tsimhoni vs. Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM. 5
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Your Honor just 6
getting Ms. Gucciardo out of the hallway. 7
MS. SPILMAN: Ready your Honor. 8
THE COURT: Good morning. 9
MS. GUCCIARDO: Morning your Honor. 10
MS. SPILMAN: Morning, Amy Spilman standing in 11
for Keri Middleditch on behalf of the Defendant Father. 12
MS. GUCCIARDO: Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the 13
Plaintiff Maya. 14
MR. LANSAT: Your Honor um--William Lansat GAL, 15
I asked the Court to--and I appreciate the Court and--and 16
all Counsel actually coming here today. Your Honor I did 17
a thorough report, everyone’s had it. I frankly do not 18
know what to do anymore on this case. Um--Ms. Steeb had a 19
copy of it. You were present when it was done at the 20
courthouse here. I--I--we cannot--all I can say right now 21
is we just cannot continue, the library, the dog, the 22
status quo, it just cannot happen. 23
THE COURT: Ms. Steeb? 24
MS. STEEB: Judge I agree with the Guardian Ad 25
4
Litem on this. Um--after spending almost two full days 1
here at the Court trying to facilitate parenting time 2
between-- 3
THE COURT: By the way, the Court appreciated 4
you trying to do that. Thank you. You didn’t have any 5
other cases you needed to work on for those days. 6
MS. STEEB: It was virtually impossible to get 7
the three children um--into the room. It was very 8
difficult to get mom away from the children um--and 9
frankly there isn’t I--I--without everybody being in one 10
central location I, like Mr. Lansat, am out of ideas for 11
how to facilitate this relationship. 12
THE COURT: Okay. 13
MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor our client is on his 14
way to Michigan as we speak. He’s flying from Israel. He 15
will be here um--this evening. I have his schedule that 16
he’s available to spend time with the children um--if we 17
can facilitate that. We are willing to abide by what Mr. 18
Lansat has suggested um--if we could have the parties meet 19
as he proposes at the courthouse with the Sheriff present 20
and help him get the children into the car-- 21
THE COURT: Wait--wait--is that the Sheriff’s 22
that aren’t working on that murder trial--that murder case 23
that just happened. That--so these--the deputies that are 24
working around the clock for that murder that just 25
5
happened in Waterford the home invasion where 1
unfortunately a man was killed. They should be working on 2
this. Okay, I agree. That’s what we pay our police 3
officers to do. 4
MS. SPILMAN: Well then certainly just at--maybe 5
a police station-- 6
THE COURT: Oh, no, no I’m not--it wasn’t 7
against you. 8
MS. SPILMAN: --I’m not sure what Mr. Lansat has 9
in mind. 10
THE COURT: Your client needs protection. I’m 11
just ready in all honesty just to swi--I can hear from Ms. 12
Gucciardo before I say what I’m ready to do. 13
MS. GUCCIARDO: That would be great. Thank you. 14
I appreciate that. 15
THE COURT: Because you were not going to like 16
it. (Indiscernible). 17
MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor the re--the reality 18
of the situation is I think that Mr. Tsimhoni is ah--he 19
plays the system--you know he--when he goes for the 20
parenting time he says in Hebrew to the children, better 21
behave or I’ll destroy your mother. Obviously that upsets 22
the children, things don’t go well. My client has advised 23
me that um--that in addition to that mister--both of the 24
parents tal--were emailing each other and they agreed to 25
6
meet on Friday to discuss this. They both agreed to talk 1
about the parenting time on Friday. There’s no need to 2
come here to Court on an emergency basis, notifying of 3
this on Monday afternoon that we needed to be here, no 4
notice or anything like that. They had an agreement to 5
talk. But instead of just abiding by that, then he’s got 6
to get everybody all wound up and act like there’s a 7
problem. There’s not a problem here. She’s agreeable to 8
meet with him on Friday to work out a parenting plan. 9
Now I would note that the last time the--that 10
ah--the sit--the parenting time took place in Court I was 11
not here. I heard Mr. Lansat’s story and I heard my 12
client’s story as to what happened. And what my client 13
tells me is that ah--Mr. Lansat came out and told the 14
children that they were going to go to jail if they didn’t 15
um--if they didn’t go with their father right then and 16
there--that their mother was going to go to jail and the 17
children were terrified by that. And it went downhill 18
from there. And it was an aggressive situation. There is 19
a--there is a problem in terms of the children’s 20
relationship obviously with their father. It’s been an 21
ongoing problem and to have this kind of threat to their 22
mother, who they’re extremely bonded with, it didn’t make 23
things any better. She said that the only time that the 24
kids relaxed was when you came out and you gave them a 25
7
high five or something. I don’t know. I wasn’t here and 1
she’s got more to say about that situation but she’s 2
trying to facilitate this. All of the reports say she 3
tells them to go, tells them to do this, there’s not one 4
report that says that she’s not doing that. 5
The children have their own relationship with 6
their father. And as I have said over and over again, Dr. 7
Erard (ph) interviewed these kids while the Federal case 8
was going on. He verified that there is a tremendous 9
fracture between the parent--between Mr. Tsimhoni and the 10
children because they felt like he was trying to kidnap 11
them and keep them in that country against their will. 12
That’s a problem. As I’ve said before, him leaving the 13
country and choosing to work in Israel has not helped the 14
situation because we’ve got a fractured relationship--I 15
mean every single time that Omer comes back to see the 16
children there’s all of this--this ah--these feelings go--17
before the parenting time takes place, it never goes well. 18
He plays games, we talked about it the last time. The 19
kids do well at the restaurant, instead of doing that he 20
tries to change it and force it to something else. And he 21
forces, forces, forces things. He tries to force things 22
and change things so that the children get upset and it’s 23
an ongoing game and then he pre--tries to present that 24
she’s the problem. 25
8
She has bent over backwards to try and make sure 1
that this takes place. But then after it’s done it’s the 2
same--it’s the same thing. He leaves and they come back. 3
So any type of healing that they might have it’s 4
repetitive. It’s like ripping a Band-Aid off of a scab. 5
It just never stops, largely because he’s in a different 6
country and he’s not here to try and work out this 7
problem. 8
Mom has taken the children, taken--sat during 9
their um--dinners, allowed him to come to her house, done 10
everything she can think of to make this ti--this pl--take 11
place. It’s easy to blame her and look at her that she’s 12
the problem, she’s not, not one person can say that she’s 13
not there telling the kids to go. This is something that 14
he has created. He’s reaping what he’s sown and--and to 15
try and continuously blame her and--and say that you’re 16
ready to switch custody that’s not fair and that’s not in 17
the children’s best interest and there’s no evidence that 18
it’s her. It’s easy to point at her but when you look at 19
all of the--the things that mis--that Omer is doing and--20
and--and ah--the games that he plays and the manipulation, 21
that’s where you need to look at. That’s where the 22
problem is. 23
Now in terms of the parenting time, of course he 24
can have the parenting time. I don’t think it’s a good 25
9
idea to have the deputies do it again because they’re 1
afraid of the deputies ‘cuz of what happened last time. 2
And she can address that with you better but they’re 3
scarred by that. They were very, very upset by what 4
happened. 5
THE COURT: All right. Thank you Ms. Gucciardo. 6
You’re very eloquent. Ah--I just drafted up my own order 7
and I haven’t signed it yet but I’m about to. I started 8
the Lisa and I did the G. The Court finds by clear and 9
convincing evidence that it would endanger the children’s 10
mental health if they were to remain in mother’s custody. 11
The Court grants on a temporary basis sole and physical 12
custody to father pending an evidentiary hearing. I would 13
like to hear from you mother because I’m about to sign 14
orcyca onto the G. Because what I saw, mother, I am 15
scarred by it and if I’m scarred at almost 50 years old--16
I’ve never ever read a report like Mr. Lansat’s in 41,000 17
cases. I’ve never read a report like Ms. Steeb’s who--I 18
respect both of these people more than you would ever 19
know. Never read anything and the common denominator is 20
you. So I’m ready to put orcyca on it and then we’ll 21
figure it out. 22
MS. GUCCIARDO: Well your Honor I would-- 23
MR. LANSAT: Your Honor I would-- 24
THE COURT: And we’ll have a hearing--we’ll have 25
10
a hearing right away. 1
MS. GUCCIARDO: --you know what no--you know 2
what-- 3
THE COURT: Just wait, I want to hear from 4
mother. 5
MR. LANSAT: Your Honor just for the record, I 6
wasn’t asking for-- 7
THE COURT: I know you weren’t but I’ve had it. 8
I’ve had it. 9
MR LANSAT: --just--(indiscernible) mother I was 10
just asking to change the parenting time. 11
THE COURT: Clearly. Mom you’re the problem and 12
everybody but Ms. Gucciardo and yourself can see it. And 13
your poor little kids, the damage that you have done to 14
your little kids and I’ll make a great evidentiary hear--15
we’ll have the hearing, emergency we’ll do it right away. 16
We’ll bunk everybody--we’ll bump everybody, you can have 17
your hearing and then--you know what--we’ll--I’ll make a 18
nice record for the Court of Appeals. So you want to talk 19
to your attorney and then come out here and say something 20
to me? Because here it is, so you don’t think I’m lying, 21
I signed Lisa G and that’s official and I’m not gonna 22
sign--sign any stay that she’s gonna ask me for. And the 23
Court of Appeals may or may not hear it, because it’s not 24
a final order, so they’re not going to hear it so we’ll do 25
11
your hearing. I can do it on my own motion. 1
MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor um-- 2
THE COURT: Well take a break-- 3
MS. GUCCIARDO: --thank you. 4
THE COURT: --Ms. Gucciardo, I knew what you 5
were going to say. 6
(At 11:20 a.m., proceeding recessed) 7
(At 11:27 a.m., proceeding recalled) 8
THE CLERK: Court recalls Eibschitz-Tsimhoni vs 9
Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM. 10
MR. LANSAT: William Lansat, GAL your Honor. 11
THE COURT: So unfair. 12
MS. SPILMAN: Amy Spilman for Defendant. 13
MS. GUCCIARDO: Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the 14
Plaintiff. 15
THE COURT: You have any reco--res--any 16
resolution? Otherwise I’m gonna go ahead and sign this. 17
MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor-- 18
THE COURT: Over your objection of course. 19
MS. GUCCIARDO: --well I--I would appreciate 20
that and--the reality is--is Maya is--and she’ll tell you 21
herself, she has attempted to facilitate the relationship 22
and she is going to continue to facil--to attempt to 23
facilitate that. She is in agreement with abiding by ah--24
the recommendation um--so she will do that and she will do 25
12
everything in her power to facilitate the relationship and 1
what she--what she’s always done and she’s going to 2
continue to do that. 3
THE COURT: I hope you don’t do what you’ve 4
always done because it’s pathetic. Pathetic. And you 5
know you’re lucky you have such a fabulous lawyer in Ms. 6
Gucciardo but nothing she says I believe and I--I mean 7
she’s saying it with a straight face, maybe she believes 8
it but I was there and I saw what little you did, you did 9
less than nothing. What--you did less with her, you did 10
less with him, we were there and we’re scarred and we’re 11
adults and your children deserve so much better than you 12
as their mother, and you have me for six more years and 13
two months. So I don’t think you’ve done enough. I think 14
it’s pathetic what you have done and obviously I’m 15
displeased is an understatement. 16
MR. LANSAT: Your Honor if-- 17
THE COURT: And you’re not gonna do it. Like 18
you didn’t comfort your children. You didn’t comfort your 19
children at all with Tracy Steeb. You didn’t comfort your 20
children at all with him. You didn’t comfort your 21
children in front of me. I can only imagine what you do 22
when we’re not around. It’s pathetic. It’s pathetic and 23
shameful. 24
MR. LANSAT: --your Honor if mother’s in 25
13
agreement to get the children--however she wants to do it, 1
one at a time or all three into dad’s car when he takes 2
those child--or children--you know for several hours or 3
whatever, if she’s willing to do it and it gets done, I 4
will be okay with that and we see where we go with it. 5
MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor the recommendation 6
was that each child separately or together be placed in 7
the father’s car by father directly and proceed without 8
mother for several hours. Um--Art Gallagher should be 9
there and um--the initial park--pick up shall occur at the 10
courthouse parking lot with a deputy present. We’ll agree 11
by that. I think it’s good that there’s a deputy there 12
that can um--see what’s going on and to make sure that she 13
is attempting to facilitate this. She would like nothing 14
better than for Omer to have a good relationship with his 15
children. Nothing better. She just reiterated that again 16
in the hallway with me. That’s what she wants. She wants 17
him to have a good relationship with the children. Is 18
that true? 19
THE PLAINTIFF: Absolutely. 20
MR. LANSAT: And--and then your Honor if it--if 21
at that point there’s no success after a few days and we 22
do this, then I think you do what we need to do. But I’m 23
willing to give mother that chance. This is the best that 24
we can-- 25
14
THE COURT: How many chances? This case is from 1
’09. Your poor children are--are-- 2
MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor we need--if this is 3
gonna happen we need specific dates and times. 4
THE COURT: Was he--how long is he in Michigan 5
and then is he willing to take the kids to Israel? I mean 6
is he wanting this? I don’t even know if he wants it so 7
I’ll have to hold off when he’s here. 8
MS. SPILMAN: I would want him to be here your 9
Honor. I don’t know what his circumstances are-- 10
THE COURT: ‘Cuz maybe-- 11
MS. SPILMAN: --he will be here this evening-- 12
MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor with all due respect 13
you can’t do an order changing custody without having a 14
hearing. You can’t. We--there’s no-- 15
THE COURT: Ms. Gucciardo I can actually I can, 16
I have, and I will. 17
MS. GUCCIARDO: --there’s--there’s no notice for 18
today’s hearing, there’s no motion-- 19
THE COURT: So I’m gonna hold this off-- 20
MS. GUCCIARDO: --there’s no pending motion-- 21
THE COURT: --I’m gonna put this in the file, my 22
private file, and um--we’ll see how it goes and then if 23
he’s willing to do it--if he wants to do it and has a plan 24
for--until we have the hearing. Mom you don’t get it. 25
15
You never will. I don’t think you are--you know what--all 1
these people that don’t--can’t have kids. 2
MR. LANSAT: Your Honor can we have the order 3
then I will--it’s in the JOD anyways um--if there’s--if 4
there’s a disagreement on how to do it logistically I’ll 5
just decide that that’s how it’s gonna be. Maybe we 6
should come back next Wednesday, see how things are going 7
in the morning. Ms. Gucciardo will have more time and 8
we’ll see if this works. If this works, this is great. 9
MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor he’s here from this 10
evening, he’s available to see the kids starting on 11
Friday. He has work meetings tomorrow. I know he’s 12
available all weekend, after six on Monday and Tuesday. 13
Wednesday, if you wanted him to be here I believe he’s 14
available but he has--I think he has a work meeting 15
between eight and 10, so if we can make it later in your 16
docket call that would be fine, but I’m a little--not 17
comfortable leaving it just completely up in the air. I 18
think there needs to-- 19
THE COURT: The balls in your court. 20
MR. LANSAT: No we’ll get an order. 21
MS. SPILMAN: Whatever he wants? 22
THE COURT: The balls in your court and it’s 23
about to be more in your court. 24
MR. LANSAT: I think we should draft an order 25
16
now while were here. 1
MS. SPILMAN: So the-- 2
THE COURT: And I’m here all next week and you 3
can come in on an emergency basis any time to have the 4
motion heard. I’ll waive notice. 5
MS. SPILMAN: So I’m not clear what we’re 6
ordering that there’s going to be parenting time as the 7
parties agree and if they don’t then we’ll be back here on 8
Wednesday and-- 9
MR. LANSAT: No. The parenting time will be as 10
what mother indicated, that I--that Omer will either get 11
one child at a time or all three, I don’t care, um--into 12
his car, um--to--to meet in the-- 13
THE COURT: It’s not gonna work. I mean it’s 14
not gonna work because mom’s not gonna encourage it at 15
all. 16
UNIDENTIFIED FEMAEL SPEAKER: That’s fine. 17
MR. LANSAT: --well (indiscernible)--in the 18
parking lot, we’ll try it Friday with the deputy. Mr. 19
Gallagher’s not around but he gave me the name of someone 20
else. The only reason I want him there is a witness, 21
that’s the only reason. 22
THE COURT: We definitely need a witness. 23
MR. LANSAT: And we’ll see what happens--and 24
we’ll do it Saturday and Sunday. 25
17
THE COURT: And it didn’t work with all those 1
police officers, with you, with me, with you-- 2
MR. LANSAT: There were six. 3
THE COURT: --with my-- 4
MS. GUCCIARDO: Can--can--may she say something, 5
she wants to address the Court. 6
THE COURT: Yes. 7
THE PLAINTIFF: I want to ah--say a few things, 8
one is um--I--I hope you will believe me I--from the 9
bottom of my heart I want them to have a good relationship 10
with their father and I have so--so um--I--I don’t want 11
anybody to think differently. Two is um--in the past over 12
many, many months the kids have no problem going--they--I 13
would drop them off, they would go to have visitation for 14
um--for ah--a long time and--and I was not around and then 15
Omer asked that I would be around and I was around and so 16
there was no problem. And I think the um--the um--17
intimidation that has been caused with this 18
(indiscernible) and Mr. Lansat’s threats and Mr. Lansat 19
had told them that it’s their responsibility that their 20
grandfather will die and--and all that just upsets them 21
and--and if there are--if the visit starts with 22
intimidation and threats and--and force it creates a 23
situation that is hard to overcome. I think on the 24
contrary I think if we don’t use force and--and threats 25
18
and let--and you’ve never heard of what really happened. 1
You only hear Mr. Lansat’s report that is based on his--on 2
Omer’s report to Mr. Lansat and it kind of escalates to a 3
level that was not even the case and if we (indiscernible) 4
on things that did work and go from there it will I think 5
number one the kids will have um--will be comfortable, 6
they will feel happy and--and we have to give it a real 7
chance. Every--every time something started to go in the 8
right direction immediately they come to you and complain 9
and you hear the worst things and you think, like Mr. 10
Lansat puts in his report, compares it to serial killers 11
and I don’t know illusional--delusional accusations that I 12
think he should actually apologize for, ah--we are not 13
serial killers. 14
THE COURT: The only person who should apologize 15
is you. 16
THE PLAINTIFF: We’re not serial kill-- 17
THE COURT: The only one who apologize should be 18
you because I completely agreed with what I saw, what he 19
wrote, I completely agree with. 20
THE PLAINTIFF: You haven’t been outside before-21
-before-- 22
MR. LANSAT: Well you know in a-- 23
THE COURT: I was watching. I watched 24
everything and I heard everything. 25
19
THE PLAINTIFF: You haven’t heard what Mr. 1
Lansat told them-- 2
MR. LANSAT: Your Honor here--you know what 3
here’s the situation-- 4
THE COURT: I agree with him. 5
MR. LANSAT: --I’m trying to help her out-- 6
THE COURT: I’m not apologizing either. 7
MR. LANSAT: --not to--you’re about to change 8
physical custody-- 9
THE COURT: She doesn’t get it. 10
MR. LANSAT: --so all we’re--she doesn’t get it-11
-all we’re hearing is she wants to blame me--blame this-- 12
THE PLAINTIFF: I get it. I get it. 13
THE COURT: You don’t. 14
MR. LANSAT: --your Honor it hasn’t worked for 15
four years. You know I’m trying to help--there’s not even 16
no point. 17
THE PLAINTIFF: Because it’s cut off-- 18
THE COURT: There is no point. 19
THE PLAINTIFF: --because every time-- 20
THE COURT: There is no point. You know what, 21
when Judge McDonald heard your case in my absence, Judge 22
McDonald said your kids don’t run the show. You’re like 23
the only parent that lets kids run the show. You. Judge 24
McDonald said that to you. You can think all you want 25
20
about me, I didn’t hear your case because Judge McDonald 1
heard it and Judge McDonald had nothing nice to say about 2
you. 3
THE PLAINTIFF: I--I actually thought that your 4
approach was the best approach. You came out, you were 5
kind to them, I said to you look Judge Gorcyca is--I said 6
to the kids look Judge Gorcyca is so nice, she’s going to 7
hear you, she’s going to listen to you, and your technique 8
works. But every time we’re going one step forward it’s 9
interrupted by complaints and accusations and--and that 10
are not--not exactly what happened. 11
THE COURT: I don’t know why your children would 12
know that. 13
THE PLAINTIFF: Sorry? 14
THE COURT: Your children shouldn’t have known 15
their father had a complaint about you or the way the 16
visits went. 17
THE PLAINTIFF: He says that to them when--in 18
the initial visit, he threatens all of us in the initial 19
visit. 20
THE COURT: No--I don’t-- 21
THE PLAINTIFF: And--and then it sets a bad 22
(indiscernible). 23
THE COURT: --I find you incredible--I actually 24
find you less than credible. I don’t--I don’t believe 25
21
you. 1
THE PLAINTIFF: I--I wish--I wish one time you 2
would give me a chance-- 3
THE COURT: I did. 4
THE PLAINTIFF: --to--no--no it was always 5
interrupted-- 6
THE COURT: In that--out there in the hall and 7
there and that you--okay let’s just say, what Tracy Ray 8
Staid (ph) said about you--say the worse thing that you 9
wrote. 10
MS. STEEB: That when I directed mom to leave 11
and go to lunch to allow the visitation on the second day 12
mom refused to leave the building and in fact sat in this 13
courtroom for several hours. 14
THE PLAINTIFF: Because when--because when--15
because when I asked-- 16
THE COURT: I don’t think that’s the worst, I 17
think the worst is that fact that you didn’t comfort your 18
children and let them know it was okay. That’s what I was 19
going for. 20
THE PLAINTIFF: No I--that’s not true-- 21
THE COURT: How do you not comfort a kid? How 22
do you not? Like-- 23
THE PLAINTIFF: What do you mean I didn’t 24
comfort? Of course I--they were--one minute-- 25
22
THE COURT: Ms. Steeb what do you have to say? 1
THE PLAINTIFF: --one minute, number one I think 2
Ms. Steeb saw them after the event outside which was very 3
bad for them and didn’t help with creating a positive 4
environment so of course mister--Ms. Steeb’s report starts 5
with they came in crying. Well why did they come in 6
crying? Because they were just accused of killing their 7
grandfather. 8
MR. LANSAT: Oh my God. Your Honor-- 9
THE PLAINTIFF: And then--and then-- 10
MR. LANSAT: --it--it’s so-- 11
THE PLAINTIFF: --and then saying that your mom 12
will go to jail-- 13
MR. LANSAT: --maybe you should just--you know 14
what your Honor if she contin--if she continues to talk, 15
change custody. I’m done. 16
THE COURT: Do you know that Mr. Lansat is 17
getting an award--a massive award for being an advocate 18
for kids at the end of this month? Okay. Mr. Lansat is 19
so respected by every Judge here, you think I--I’ll just 20
(indiscernible) by myself, any other Judge likes him more 21
than I do. 22
THE PLAINTIFF: I think Mr. Lansat had lied to 23
you in the summer to say that--that my time out of the 24
country was not approved when in fact it was and Mr. 25
23
Lansat knew it-- 1
MR. LANSAT: Ma’am do you--ma’am-- 2
THE PLAINTIFF: --and my father was not able to 3
go-- 4
THE COURT: Doesn’t get it. 5
MR. LANSAT: --ma’am do you want the Judge to 6
enter an order changing custody today? 7
THE COURT: It might have been the best thing. 8
MR. LANSAT: Yes or no. 9
THE COURT: Do you agree to it? 10
THE PLAINTIFF: No, of course not, I’m trying 11
to--to explain that this violent approach of escalating 12
force, bringing police and pushing them and for--and 13
threatening them is--is con--is not going to--to-- 14
MR. LANSAT: We tried--we’ve tried the dog. 15
We’ve tried--we’ve tried-- 16
THE PLAINTIFF: You haven’t tried the dog. 17
MR. LANSAT: --there’s no point. Thank--your 18
Honor may I be excused and we’ll get the order done? 19
THE COURT: There’s no point. 20
MR. LANSAT: Thank you. 21
THE PLAINTIFF: You have not. Kids wanted the 22
dog and Omer complained that the dog is in the way and you 23
removed the dog. 24
THE COURT: Yeah so, talk to dad about the 25
24
emergency motion. 1
THE PLAINTIFF: I--I think--I’m sad to say that-2
-you know-- 3
THE COURT: It’s done. I’m holding this on 4
emergency motion. Next week we’ll hear it changing 5
custody. 6
MS. GUCCIARDO: Are you in agreement to 7
facilitate the parenting time-- 8
THE PLAINTIFF: Of course I am in agreement. 9
MS. GUCCIARDO: --are you in agreement to 10
facilitate the recommendation by miss-- 11
THE COURT: What is the disconnect. 12
THE PLAINTIFF: --of course, when Ms. Steeb 13
asked me to step outside the lady outside said please wait 14
in the courtroom. I didn’t me--what-- 15
THE COURT: She has such as disconnect. 16
THE PLAINTIFF: Of course I will facilitate and 17
Omer wrote me an email, he wants to meet and talk about 18
the best approach and I think it will benefit the kids too 19
if he sees that--if they see that their parents work 20
together to help and not see their father keep attacking 21
the mother for things that are not even true. 22
MS. SPILMAN: She never responded to his email. 23
He-- 24
THE PLAINTIFF: I have. 25
25
MS. GUCCIARDO: They agreed to meet on Friday. 1
THE PLAINTIFF: I have and there is a copy--2
there was copies sent-- 3
THE COURT: Well good luck on that meeting on 4
Friday. It will be the most important one for you. 5
THE PLAINTIFF: I’m sorry? 6
MS. GUCCIARDO: The parties agreed to meet on 7
Friday but they’re gonna work out the parenting time. 8
THE COURT: Your parenting time is going to be 9
the most important time of your life--facilitating this 10
for dad. 11
THE PLAINTIFF: And--and I want it--I want-- 12
THE COURT: All right we’ll let’s--we’ll just 13
see if you can actually have emotion that make your 14
children feel good. 15
THE PLAINTIFF: But I need-- 16
THE COURT: Let’s just see if you have that as a 17
mother. Maybe you don’t. Maybe you have this-- 18
THE PLAINTIFF: I do. I do. 19
THE COURT: --massive disconnect that everyone 20
sees but you and your Counsel. 21
THE PLAINTIFF: I do but I can’t--I do but I 22
can’t do it with my (indiscernible) if you go--if--if-- 23
THE COURT: Okay. Do your kids like going to 24
the dentist? They like getting their teeth pulled, 25
26
cavities filled-- 1
THE PLAINTIFF: They actually do. 2
THE COURT: --or do they go-- 3
THE PLAINTIFF: They go because--they go. But 4
I--I wanna say that if--that I wanna do it my way. That 5
is a kind and--and respectful way. 6
THE COURT: It’s not working. Your--your way-- 7
THE PLAINTIFF: It is. It’s always interrupted. 8
THE COURT: --your way is the worst. I’ve not 9
seen it in 41,000 cases. You are the worst-- 10
THE PLAINTIFF: That’s because every time it 11
starts to work-- 12
THE COURT: --case and it’s all on you. It’s on 13
you. 14
THE PLAINTIFF: --he complains to the Court and-15
-and everything is changed. 16
THE COURT: You can’t convince me--the best GAL 17
in the world just walked out on you. You don’t get it. 18
THE PLAINTIFF: No I do he--he’s responsible 19
for-- 20
THE COURT: So Ms. Gucciardo I really hope that 21
you can relay to her-- 22
THE PLAINTIFF: --Mother’s Day by lying to the 23
Court this summer. 24
THE COURT: --try--good luck Ms. Gucciardo, it’s 25
27
gonna be very hard for you to do. 1
MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor I--I have discussed 2
that and I again reiterate, she’s going to facilitate the 3
relationship-- 4
THE COURT: Okay. 5
MS. GUCCIARDO: --and if something is working I 6
would ask that it continue and not change it. 7
THE COURT: That would be great. That would be 8
great. 9
MS. GUCCIARDO: Not say we’re gonna do this and 10
try and shove something else down their throat-- 11
THE COURT: That’d be great. 12
MS. GUCCIARDO: --and then come to Court and say 13
there’s a problem, ‘cuz that’s-- 14
THE COURT: This is it. This is it for you. 15
MS. GUCCIARDO: --it’s a vicious cycle. If Mr. 16
Tsimhoni wants this work he needs to make it work and let 17
what’s working work. Because otherwise these kids are--18
it’s never gonna-- 19
THE COURT: All right. Good luck. Thank you. 20
Thank you, very well said, Ms. Gucciardo. Ms. Spilman 21
too. 22
MS. SPILMAN: Okay, thank you your Honor. 23
THE COURT: Tracy the Court appreciates the 24
effort you have put. 25
28
MS. STEEB: Thank you Judge. 1
THE COURT: All right. I’ll sign the order. 2
(At 11:42 a.m., proceeding concluded) 3
* * * * * *4
29
STATE OF MICHIGAN )
COUNTY OF OAKLAND )ss.
I certify that this transcript is a true and accurate
transcription to the best of my ability of the proceeding in
this case before the Honorable Lisa Gorcyca, as recorded by the
clerk.
Proceedings were recorded and provided to this
transcriptionist by the Circuit Court and this certified
reporter accepts no responsibility for any events that occurred
during the above proceedings, for any inaudible and/or
indiscernible responses by any person or party involved in the
proceeding or for the content of the recording provided.
Dated: November 24, 2014
___/S/ Sandra J. Traskos__________
Sandra Traskos, CER 7118