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8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
1/21
Pages were labeled in no particular order. These comments were directly
transposed from the large sheets of paper to this report for simple
handling.
Page 1/Side 1:What Dont We Know? (In order to come together on where we are going
next)
-How do we proceed? Referendum? Province Order?
-What is best model? Perhaps not effectively governed.-What communities will be hurt by regional services (ie. policing)?
-What services would be best to amalgamate to start with?
-Costs:-to reduce staff
-to reduce infrastructure
-value of services receivingcan we get more value for our dollars?
-planning and transportationwe dont have a body that can take
charge.
-whole is greater than the sum of the parts, we need more
information about other governments.
-what would happen with CRD if Greater Victoria amalgamated?-Successes, Challenges of those municipalities that have amalgamated.
-Taxpayers bearing brunt?-When are we going to start going bankrupt?
-What are advantages of system we [currently] have?
-How do we simplify government without losing effectiveness?
What common approaches can we take?
-all neighbourhoods are equal
-we live in a common region
-it is challenging to live ones life in one municipality-charettes
-neighbourhood associations: is there accountability
-CRD?
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
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Page 1/Side 2:What Can We Share?
-water
-sewage
-recycling
-fire
-policing
-emergency
-transportation
-planning
-downtown core issues and associated costs
-identity, as Victorians-affordable housing strategy
-homelessness
-agricultural planning and food security
Page 2/Side 1:What We Dont Know:-we know taxpayers are bearing the brunt of taxation-too much talk
-we dont know what the initial cost would be (contracts, administration,
disposal of assets).
-we dont know what the best model is (disagree that we are overtaxed
the question is that we are not effectively governed)
-regional government is not accountable.
-how do we simplify government and retain neighbourhood rights?
-we dont know, costs-successes-problems. Are wards a solution?
-we dont know the electoral system.-we dont know advantages of our current system: whats broken, what
values (eg. diversity) that current system provides.-what communities would benefit/would be hurt?
-is amalgamation of services the way to start (ie. fire services?)
-echo, whats around the table the sum should be greater than the
parts (gut feeling) but is it?
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
3/21
-dont know what would happen with regional government CRD.
-dont know when we are going to start going bankrupt.
-how do we proceed? What are the steps?-Money. Taxes. Preserve Democracy. Representation.
-what is value of services we are receiving?
-can we be more efficient?
Page 2/Side 2:What Could We Share?-we are already doing some sharing and it isnt working (water, sewage,
recycling, police services, fire departmentseg. Esquimalt/Victoria: Is this
[arrangement] working? It would depend on who you ask and do they all
share equally?-[another comment on this thought]: its the governance thats the
issue[x thinks] this is a diversionary question and were getting
bogged down in details.
-we could share funding and coordination of the arts.
-[we could share] transportation, fire, police
-[we could share] planning and transportation this is a must
-the idea of shared policing is a deal breaker; voters in communities with
great service will vote against.
-the common approach is: we are all equal, we could all pay.-we share an identity; we cannot leave our lives in just one municipality
need to reframe.
-we all benefit from services that we dont pay directly for.
-what is the common approach to planning? Strong neighbourhoods,
frameworks for neighbourhod groups. Wheres the accountability of
neighbourhood groups/
-regional planning with teeth.
There is an indication that these are all detailsthe larger thing we need
to share is governance.
The fear of loss of services/loss of control will scuttle moves towardamalgamation, therefore, we need to reframewe are all benefitting from
services we are not directly paying for.
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
4/21
Page 3/Only SideWhat Common Approaches Could We Take:-people want to be responsible for decisions and for decisions that impact
them (eg. direct democracy: keeping in touch with their local
government).
-be engaged in decisions that touch our lives.
-all kinds of place-based services, eg. police, planning [to be] accessible
to local residents.
-affordable housing
-ability to control your areas destiny
-establish neighbourhood assemblies: consultation and outreach in small
communities
-good communication.
Page 4/What Could We Share? (Only Side):-human resource
-CRD expansion
-sewage treatment
-homeless issue
-tea and crumpets
-social housing
-transit LRT-some by-laws that are common to neighbouring communities
-road maintenance
-policing
-fire protection
-emergency services dispatch
-recreation
-regional planning functions
Page 5/-where is the political will?-leadership?
-lack of effective regional plan
-amalgamation would enable us to get more federal dollars, (eg. housing
infrastructure, transportation, sewer, water).
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
5/21
What Could We Share?-costs
-policing, emergency, investment opportunities, resources, fire
departments, successes and failures, by-laws (commercial), skill sets,
municipal politics much more visible, hopes and fears, decision making,
transportation aspirations, communication systems, quality of life, larger
issues: harm reduction, affordable housing.
-what common approaches could we share? Planning: rebuilding of the
system is required. Take the best from all the jurisdictions.
Page 6/Side 1: What We Dont Know-status of each 13 municipalities (similarities and differences, budgets,services)
-definition of amalgamationwhat are we wanting to do, change, keep?
-knowledge/information of how other cities did structure itsuggestions
of Toronto, Winnipeg.
-why arent politicians embracing the idea of amalgamation?
-what mechanism would we use?
-how the public sees it?
Page 6/Side 2:What Could We Share?-saving $$
Page 6/What Common Approaches Can We Take?-tough question:
a) either mandate all 13
b) or piece by piece: police, fire, admin
or
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
6/21
c) give more decision/administration to CRD Board
Page 7-[how could municipalities] interact?
-[relationship between] shared services and bureaucracy?
Page 8/What We Dont Know1. the carrying capacity of the region (49% municipalities; 51% capital
region)
2. after the decision is done, does the land return to the government?
3. Amalgamation, does the will exist?4. Is there a more effective way of governance?
5. Three Groups: Core, Westshore, Peninsula (get rid of the layers of
authority)
What Could We Share?What common approaches can we take?
-police service to be unified throughout the districts?
Page 9/What Could We Share?What Common Approach Could We Take?-police services!
-amalgamation yes!
Page 10/#1:-change legislation? Force amalgamation?
-what are the goals of amalgamation? Can they be achieved viaamalgamation?
-identify problemswhat are the solutions?-problems recent? Result of peripheral municipalities?
-City of Victoria burdened with cost of regional infrastructure (Blue
Bridge, Arena)
-Transportation needs: public LRT
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
7/21
-What would amalgamation look like? (police? Fire protection? Ward
system?)#2:-what do other jurisdictions share (ie. GVRD?)
-concerted approach to planning and development
-regional property tax rate
-policing
Page 11/Question 2: What Can We Share?-what can we share?
-police servicesVictoria, Esquimalt, RCMP
-Victoria bearing brunt of extra costs
-Issue #1: Everyone in Victoria suffers from apathy
Page 12Questions:
-how do we measure the effectiveness of local government services?
Then, model various sizes and configurations.
-what is a reasonable level of local government representation? Ratio of
constituents to councilors.
Potential to Share:
-local government service
1. police/fire/
2. engineering: water, sewer, roads,3. parks and rec
4. planning
5. business licence
6. building
*two words illegible
Page 13Could we share common approaches?-water
-transit-health
-waste
-school district
-library
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-sports and recreation
-police
-911 and emergency-policy
-roads
Page 14: What We Dont KnowWhy cant province legislate amalgamation?
-Premier can change legislation to allow it (forced amalgamation)
What do other people say when they are asked about amalgamation?
Dont know of any other [area] with 13 mayors and 16 police forces.
Dont know what is impact on 8 first nations communities.
Dont know if wed save $$.
Dont know about municipalities other than Victoria think about it.
Dont know where to start the process.
Dont know the procedure required for amalgamation.
Dont know what it would take to approve amalgamation, assuming it isnt
mandated by province.
Dont know how individual community character could be maintained [in]
amalgamation.
Dont know if it would be as easy to get [in touch with] our councilor rep.
Dont know if amalgamation has worked elsewhere.
Page 15: What Could We Share/What Common Approaches Could WeTake-share: policing, dispatch 911 emergency service, and Emergency
Management Services
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
9/21
-planning (land)
-homelessness, affordable housing files
Possible Models/Approaches:
-schools, health and social services, VIHA
-garbage, organics, recycle services
Page 16:Deep Needs:
-green
-safe
-fair-kids
What Dont We Know?
-each others priorities
-success in other places
-works for business/residents? Who benefits?
-representation #/1000 people
-costs across region
-0/D live-work-where do we get data?
-how to measure efficiencies, effectiveness, accountability?
-who can create amalgamation processes?
-what are the distortions, inefficiencies, unfairnesses?
-what are the existing shared service agreements?
-how far along does this take us?
What Could We Share?
-facilities
-expertise-common policing, fire
-land claims
-Murray [Langdon]
-building codes and application procedures
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
10/21
-traffic rules and transformation
-chickens by-law
-wildlife-common approaches to Provincial/Federal [relations]
Page 17:-will municipal politicians give up fiefdoms
-who benefits?
-what benefits?
-what will it cost (money, representation)
-what does it cost now (municipal staff and services?)
-how do we measure efficiency of local government.
Page 18:What Dont We Know?-who will pay for this change?
-how funds/municipally are used?
-where services overlap, or there is duplication?
-how much 13 municipalities responsibilities overlap?
-can borders be changed?
-what would this cost/or would we save in taxes?
-a new model of councils with representatives from each municipalities?
-Town Hall Feeds for all to take part in a new system.
What Could We Share?-police, fire, planning for the region, transportation, school boards merger
to one.
-integration for arts, music, theatre (modern facility large enough), sports
facilities, social programs, housing (low-income).
What Common Approaches Can We Take?-to all of the above there could be common approaches.
-homelessness even though it falls on Victoriaall municipalitiescontribute to the problem we all should help.
Musings:-one mayor
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
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-planning; two bridges will soon be out of service at the same time:
Johnson St. Bridge and Craigflower Bridgewhat if we had a single
governing body? Would they do this?-work, sleep, play [does not occur] in the same place; no input in areas
other than where we sleep!
-330 000 people with too many mayors and councilors.
-one police chief
-merger
-plebecite
-provincial[ly] mandated change?
-one development plan, please!
-save parkland and bogs! Dont build on them!
Page 19 Side 1:What Dont We Know?How much and who is amalgamating, interacting?
How much is taking place?
Finances/Expenditures-is amalgamation a way of achieving more financial
stability?
Whats broken? What are we trying to fix? What doesnt work and focus
on that.
BrokenCRD representation on boards. Esquimalt is just a silent partner.
We can complain but no balance. Talking takes place after a decision is
made. No accountability. Net result: cost.
More amalgamationgarbage, but not police because too contentious.
Going too far can become a monster. Tell us where its easy. When is it
enough?
3 Universities should share their information. [Information?] Back up at
different universitiesproblem that UVIC had recently with no back up.
Call centres dont have same equipment, so cant communicate.
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
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8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
13/21
Personality of areas can be maintained with one city with wards,
neighbourhood associations and other models yet to be discovered.
Inherent red tape of dealing with 10+ municipalities with different by-
laws, organizational structure and processes make it enormously costly.
Page 21: What We Dont KnowWhat would new model look like.
Why the Mayors dont want to amalgamate.
Page 22:What problems are you trying to solve?
Why now? (Pushing for amalgamation)
Bigger isnt always better; often its just bigger.
When everyone acts in their own best interest, then everyone takes
responsibility for their own situation.
Page 23:We dont know the cost of amalgamation/versus existing costs x 13
What could we share/
-police
-hospital
-EMS [emergency management services]
-firehalls-one mayor/one set of councilors/CRD/Sewer/Water/Bureaucracy/Policy
Development/IT systems/Contract Management/Zoning By-laws
Page 24:What Dont We Know?
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
14/21
Whats the problem?
Inefficient?How to measure efficiency? What evidence [that current
system is inefficient]?
What to amalgamate?
What are the boundaries ofyourcommunity?
How to maintain distinctiveness of neighbourhoods?
What differences among municipalities in: taxes, services, social issues
etc, building codes, zoning regulations, by-laws, permits.
What do these differences [see above] cost us? What benefits?
What Could We Share?-Police, fire
-Homelessness, social services
-Garbage
-Road maintenance
-Business licenc[ing]
-Building codes
What Common Approaches Can We Take?Regional police force
Page 25:What Dont We Know?What sizes work for each service or facilities?
What non-financial costs (ie. time and knowledge) do we save or
increase?
What are the fears of people who are against amalgamation.
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
15/21
1. emotional/intellectual amalgamation
2. tough to encourage economic development with so many
levels/governments
3. opportunistic investors/developers will take advantage of divided
approach, pit municipalities against each other (ie. Langford, Big
Box)
Page 26:Share:
Police-emergency
Fire
Schools-education (public)
Infra[structure] roads, sewers, highways, garbage, waste managementGovernance
Recreation
Industrial Lands
Common Approaches?
(nothing written here)
Page 27:What Dont We Know?-Who is going to pay for it?
-What funds are there? How [are they] allocated?
-Where do services overlap? What is the hidden cost of duplication?
-Would amalgamation cost more?
-How do services differ? Differing standards?
-Can municipal borders be changed? Power of Province within that?
-Could there be a ward system? Other models (ie. How did Toronto do it?
Ottawa too)-Is it possible to organize municipal services in a more rational fashion?
-What is the containment area of municipalities?-What/Who is stopping it? Who doesnt want it? How to provide localized
services?
What Could We Share? What Common Approaches Could We Take?
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
16/21
-library!
-policing/fire-arena ?
-planningeverything
-common approach to express needs to the Province
-bring back common sense to back a common approach
-transportation!!
-arts and culture (new concert hall for the region)
-responsibility for social programs, shelters, addiction services, affordable
housing
-common approach to involve the private sector, greater efficiency/more
available dollars.
-how to preserve diversity/uniqueness of communities and/or
neighbourhods.
Page 28:What We Dont Know:
1. Who wants amalgamation? Residents, service providers, politicians?
2. Who commissioned the study of amalgamation in the past?
3. What are the pros and cons of amalgamation?
4. What currently is amalgamated or shared services?
5. What has worked/not worked in other jurisdictions?6. What is the inventory in each municipality that could be shared?
7. What would it cost?
8. How can we amalgamate and maintain and protect the individuality
(unique personalities) of existing communities.
9. Who currently makes decisions about regional transportation.
Page 29:What Dont We Know:What would make sense?What is the cost of amalgamation?
What is wrong to begin with?
What are the inefficiencies?
If approved, how does process proceed to amalgamate?
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
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How efficient or inefficient is current system?
What is our community?
What is distribution of taxes?What are the negotiables?
What is each municipality with government?
What is stopping us?
How do you retain diversity of neighbourhoods with amalgamation?
Do we need to look at areas if growth within region-density.
What influence does CRD have to do with local planning?
Taxes/ratio per municipalities
Communication between?
What are the negotiables?
What are the individual relationships with Provincial government?What is the fear?
How many overlapping by-laws are there?
Gross inefficiency.
Page 30:Sad: Present Situation
What Could We Share?Police, fire, needle exchange, costs, homelessness, cost of blue bridge,
parks and recreation, school board 61, maintenance, roads.
What Common Approach Could We Take?Health standards (needle exchange, costs, homelessness)
Police, Fire (regional force)
Cost of Blue Bridge (toll if not Victorian)
Maintenance Roads (fix potholes together)
Page 31:What Could We Share?City Councils and Staff
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
18/21
Police
Fire
Maintenance Yards and EquipmentStandardized Licencing and Permits
Long Range Infrastructure Planning and Building
Regional Transportation Planningregional planning, period!
Shared Regional Mission.
Library facilities
Recreational Facilities
Purchasing Power
School Boards
Affordable Housing and Dealing With Homelessness
Common Approaches:Investigate those municipalities that have gone through amalgamation
process (what worked? What didnt work?)
Start disbanding all the silos within each municipal hall so cooperation
starts at this level.
Articulate joint values (especially re: land use and shared vision)
Provincial government must re-instate effective regional planning.
Notes on this Data:The group Greater Victoria Amalgamation Conversation strongly
believes that community engagement on all levels is necessary to ensure
vital, relevant, and visionary decision making.
For this reason, we chose to invite the public to engage in convivial
conversation about their thoughts and ideas around the topic of
amalgamation. At the meeting, the attendees were promised that theirconcerns would not go unheardthat the group would ensure that a
report would be prepared on the basis of their comments and presentedto councils, interested groups and individuals, regardless of whether the
group continues in its current form, or not.
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
19/21
This report is written to honour our promise to the many people who
attended the Community Conversation, discussed their ideas passionately
and respectfully and who took the time to write for themselves andothers, these thoughtful comments.
Consequently, what we see emerging as a public involvement discourse
here was formed or guided by two very simple questions: what dont we
know? And what can we share? These questions were presented in the
hopes that the attendees would be able to transcend dualistic pro/con
discussions. And, judging from these insights, the questions were
successful. In that sense, the comments and ideas in this report came
from a relatively pure, undiluted raw public involvement exercise.
It is important to note that this report does not claim any scientific
objectivity or statistical representation of the populace of Victoria. Whileit can be considered embedded, social action research, its findings are in
no way indicative of the relative importance of the issues, nor does this
report claim any particular legitimacy as a basis for future decision
making. The report does, however, provide a snapshot of what issues,
concerns and ideas that some engaged citizens, who were willing to
devote their evening to having a conversation on how best we can work
together, concluded.
There were no people invited specificallyother than conversations we
may have had with members of the public. All attendees probably learnedabout this meeting through either print or radio media. There was also an
advertisement placed in the Times Colonist on the Saturday prior to the
event and posters distributed to communities.
At the most basic level, the Greater Victoria Amalgamation Conversation
could have fulfilled its commitment by presenting the actual white poster
papers as the report. However, we were mindful that rolled poster papers
are bulky, unorganized and impractical to engage with.
Consequently, we have decided to present the results in a series of mini-
reports: Where Attendees Reside Currently, comments left on smallerpieces of paper are in the document Questions/Comments and the bulk
of the responses came in from the tables, these can be found, labeled
both numerically and alphabetically in no particular order in the document
table writings: A, B . The editing process here was non-existent, since
8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
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8/3/2019 Amalgamation Conversation Notes
21/21
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