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3 Attending most of the meeting In person rich, ken, astrid, vasily, matthias, wei, naohito, hideto, Shoji kohei, kazuya, John H, John L, dave K, imran, atsushi,?? On phone (for part of it) dave lee, vince, Ed Kinney, Mike L,??? RKS note – the highest priority was to reach some decisions – hence several talks were skipped
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Forward Upgrade MeetingCloseoutRichard Seto-UCR
BNLAug 18-19, 2004
Bridgeline x8383 rooms: 3-192/2-160/2-78/2-187
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Goals for this meeting Muon trigger technology Muon trigger fundingMuon trigger funding
we must decide!we must decide! the NSF proposal (jan!!)the NSF proposal (jan!!)
we must decide!we must decide! R and D plans and requests steps toward CDR (s)
Apr 2005 ?? Next major meeting?
Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
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Attending most of the meeting In person
rich, ken, astrid, vasily, matthias, wei, naohito, hideto, Shoji kohei, kazuya, John H, John L, dave K, imran, atsushi,??
On phone (for part of it) dave lee, vince, Ed Kinney, Mike L,??? RKS note – the highest priority was to reach
some decisions – hence several talks were skipped
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Muon trigger technology-Performance for triggering:1) rejection for W in pp, heavy vector mesons in AA, open charm/bottom in pp and
AA. simulation for AA – wei timescale<1mo
2) Stability against collisions related backgrounds: decays into muons, combinatorial background from spectator fragments showering of the beampipe or material close to the beam pipe.
shielding help noise? kazuya and wei, yajun timescale<1mo use pisa to do this – fragments – check with kazuya for fragments
3) Beam related backgrounds: hardron punch through, neutrons, decay-muons, incoming vs outgoing beam background.
background from beam – incoming -finish Scint test – run4 (wei check this) mars to pisa Vasily< 1mo DECISION made: one plane or more of fast device – i.e. RPC
4) Can trigger info be passed on to LL1 within one clock tick? design – 2 beam clocks to lvl1 (fast hardware) RPC OK measure for Cathode – timescale< 1 month
5) "Noise" rate (in absence of any physics signal) in the trigger. Noise – RPC – measure or send email Matthias– few days- Answer by next week
DECISION: within 1 month Naohito/Matthias will agree on a trigger technology which will satisfy the requirements of W physics
This is the primary criteria in choosing a technology/?- additional information may come from NCC for W physics
RKS note – even end of Sep is late
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Muon trigger technology-Tracking issues, integration issuesTracking Issues1) Is it necessary to improve the pattern recognition in AA? (YES-Vince) How can this
be best done?2) muTr resolution vs splitting of a trigger signal at the front end (ASD may fix this for
cathode) This is a more difficult problem needs expertise from muon tracking person may increase cost- what is needed is probably theta
Integration issues1) How long does it take to upgrade muTr FEE; can this be done during a regular
shutdown? How can the installation of new decidcated trigger counters be integrated with the running schedule?
2 shutdowns2) How to solve integration issues for possible RPCs upstream of muTr magnet,
downstream of muTr magnet or downstream of muID in gap 5? Need to talk to Pete etc
3) Do we have a scheme in which we can combine the LL1 information for muId/muTr/RPC within the time budget for a level 1 decision?
John says at first order its OK [see John’s slides~ 25 clock ticks OK, probably have 10 available since 15 are used]
4) Coordination with PHENIX muon group. There may be pretty strong oppinions on which solution is preferrable.
RKS note : we will revisit these issues in a month after the technology is picked
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costs Mu trig (to solve W trigger problem)
RPC – $900K cathode readout
9K channels ~ $1M Bottom line
either scheme or hybrid costs ~$1M To solve pattern rec may double this just from
increase in channels NCC
1 side - $3M, Both sides $5M, incl gamma/pi0
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upgrades-Mu trig NSF?MRI
Decision: strawman for funding
$1M$1MJapan
special grant
DOE Nuclear
Japan-Riken upgrades-NCC
Later
$100K
$2M+
$1M+
Europe?
Later$2M+
Later
Japan
PHENIXR&D$100K
funded or promised
to be requested
hopes
RKS note – discussion (a tough one which took most of the time) included Hideto – hence the green linAstushi will be the point person for these funds
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NSF proposal (more from Ken who will run the show)
Request ~$1M for mu trig (DECISION) Will go through UIUC(matthias) (DECISION) participating – UIUC, UCR, ISU, Colorado,
RIKEN, Kyoto, Bejing, others? ~$1-200K per institution for now- people start looking for
matching fund (30%- no more, no less) ISU – trigger RPC (where? UIUC, Kyoto, Bejing) ??
John Hill- editor- 15 pages w/o budget (DECISION)
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R & D, CDR, meeting R and D plans and requests
(DECISION) NCC will ask for $100K from
PHENIX $100K from Riken (DECISION)
Next major meeting (DECISION) in Trieste at spin conference
Friday- ½ day ??? 2pm - eve
program – RKS zajc/matthias – physics trieste bnl prague shinichi atsushi
steps toward CDRs Apr 2005 goal for both
CDRs mu-trigger – john – editor
Physics-naohito, ed kinney hardware- electronics-john/john performace- wei integration R/D-naohito
ncc - ?? Jenchi? Rich Physics jenchi?, rich hardware-edward electronics-chi performance integration-edward Kist performace-vasily R/D
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NCC plan – to have 1 NCC in by 2008 (as in LOI)
2004 – R and D ($100K-Riken, $100K-PHENIX) 2005- prototype in (1 year from now) 2006 –mid-year Funding in place for 1 NCC
$3M +– $1M+ – NSF, $1.5M+ Japan, 0.5M+ DOE Application for NSF funding Jan 2006 (ready by Oct 2005)
2006 – Prototype 2 (full prototype) 2008 – NCC 1 w/pi0/gamma operational
2007- midyear Funding in place for NCC 2 $2M Europe, Japan, DOE
2009 – NCC 2 operational
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Additional documents
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NOSECONE CALORIMETER from the LOI
nosecone prototype 1 operational 6/7/05Run 5 [SiSi 200 14wks; pp 200 10wks] 10/3/05Nosecone prototype II operational 7/14/06Run 6 [AuAu 63 19wks; pp 500 2wks] 10/2/06SMD prototype operational 6/7/07Run 7 [pp 200 22wks; pp 63 5wks] 10/01/07Nosecone 1 SMD 1 operational 9/26/08Run 8 [AuAu 200 19wks] 10/1/08Nosecone 2 SMD 2 operational 5/13/09Run 9 [ pp 500 29wks] 10/1/09Run 10 [dAu 63 29wks] 10/1/10
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Agenda – Day 1 (9AM 3-192) Overview -rich -20 min EC/DC letter-discussion - rich 20 min Muon Trigger
Physics motivation for Muon Trigger and performance requirements- Naohito - 30 min
Muon Trigger Studies: Performance Issues -Wei 20 min
Muon trigger and Pattern recognition - Vince - 20 min
break 10:45 Case I - Using the Cathodes
R&D studies in Kyoto - Naohito-10 min Rejection Power of LVL-1 MuTr with
fast cathode readout- Kazuya Aoki - 30 min
Pulse shape analysis of Cathode signal from MuTr Chambers- Kohei Shoji - 20 mins
Case II - case for the RPC's - Matthias - 45 min
Discussion – Muon trig solution 30 min
Lunch 1:00 Afternoon 2-160 2:00 Funding the muon trigger
Overview of Costs for Muon trigger – Matthias/Naohito 30 min
R and D request Discussion - Funding
possibilities Hideto/Matthias/Naohito 45 min
Using the muon trigger+NCC in Spin Studies -Astrid 20 min
Break 4:30 Measuring the Spin structure
function and orbital angular momentum Ken - 30 min (talk skipped)
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Agenda – Day 2 (9AM 2-78)
CMS Muon Trigger RPCs- Yajun Mao- 20 min (talk skipped)
NCC Review of NCC physics and studies
done so far - rich 30 min(talk skipped) NCC - update on costs and design
Ed Kist - 45 min(talk skipped) R and D request
Break 10:45 NCC studies-Vassily - 45 min Status for Foreign Collaborators
Matthias, Ed Kinney - 20 min Trigger Electronics for mu-trig+NCC
-John L 30 min Integration Issues - Ed Kist - 30
min(talk skipped) Lunch 1:00
Aug 19th Afternoon 2-187 2PM Guest speaker – the Hera-B
calorimeter - 20 min (talk skipped) Scope and Planning for NSF
proposal Ken 20 min john hill- updat from ISU - 10 min
discussion : the NSF proposal (45 min)
Break 4:30 Disscussion and planning- toward
the CDR(s): Charting the future for the NCC -
Edward Kistinev, Rich Charting the future for the muon
trigger - matthias/Naohito Close-out – Rich (talk skipped) END: 6PM
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Muon Trigger Cost Estimate: Draft -1, November 30th
Assumptions:
0) $100k from regular UIUC budget for RPC related R&D and prototypes
a) Upstream tracker (UT) is dedicated RPC upstream of muTr station I: 2m^2
b) Downstream tracker (DT) is dedicated RPC in gap 5: 110m^2
c) two gaps in each station need 20% spare modules
==> need 538m^2 at $162k
d) $300/m^2 for RPC ($110/m^2 is the Belle price) This includes the two cathodes (azimuthal and tile) and frontend needed to form azimuthal tiles.
e) Granularity: 360 azimuthal strips in each station 10x10cm^2 tiles upstream 30x30cm^2 tiles downstream -> 4184 channels + 10% spares
f) Cost for Frontend electronics $100/channel + 30% overhead
(obviously this is a generic number; we need to develop new amplifier-discriminators including some logic .OR.
for the azimuthal strips and should re-use existing FEMs ->
TOF?!).
==> $599k
g) Need two muId-type LL1 to collect RPC signals on one side and
one additional one to correlate muID.LL1 and RPC.LL1 -> 6+4 spares.
Assume: $10k/board including overhead and manpower for modest
modifiations.
h) online and off-line software - including the FPGA algorithms -
will be written by postdocs and graduates students supported
by the regular grants.
RPC costs
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RPC costs contWith this:
-> R&D, prototypes $100k (from regular NSF grant)======================================================= -> Mechanics for integration: $50k (from NSF-MRI ... (labor from PHENIX operations) -> Gas System $50k (labor from PHENIX operations) -> RPC hardware $162k -> RPC FEMs $599k -> LL1 $100k ...) ======= $961k -> get NSF grant for undergraduate institutions -$100k ======= $861k to NSF MRI
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costs cathode readout
9K channels ~ $1M
Bottom line either scheme or hybrid costs ~$1M To solve pattern rec may double this just from
increase in channels
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rest is notes
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2004 (now) 2005 long pp 2006 (prototype)(500) 2007 (prototype) 2008 (fully ready)(500 GeV) must be pads? – then it needs new
chambers 2009(500 GeV)
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add kyoto, riken, Bejing ISU trigger rpc’s where? (UIUC/Kyoto?) document – John 15 pages w/o budget add naohito, atsushi
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Things that need to be answered to choose a technology to do W physics simulation for AA – wei <1mo shielding help noise? kazuya
and wei, yajun <1mo use pisa to do this
background from beam – incoming -finish Scint test – run4 (wei check this)
mars to pisa < 1mo DECISION made: one plane or
more fast device – i.e. RPC design – 2 beam clocks to lvl1
(fast hardware) RPC OK, measure for Cathode - 1 month
Noise – RPC – measure or send email – few days
Things that need to be answered to fix the pattern recognition problem This is a more difficult
problem needs expertise from muon
tracking person may increase cost
tracking yes, needs some work
ASD may fix this for cathode 2 shutdowns Integration issues
installation of RPC Time budget in LL1
John says at first order its OK
mu trig- plans to reach decision on technology
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CDR April 2005 both
mu-trigger – john – editor Physics-naohito, ed kinney hardware- electronics-john/john performace- wei integration R/D-naohito
ncc - ?? Jenchi? Rich Physics jenchi?, rich hardware-edward electronics-chi integration-edward Kist performace-vasily R/D