83 _Renton Police Department Public Records

7/28/2019 83 _Renton Police Department Public Records

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER -

COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08INTERVIEWER: Commander ClineLOCATION: Renton Police Department

DATE: July 26, 20121017

CUNE:

-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:

I am Commander Paul Cline of the Renton Police Department, theProfessional Standards Division. This ls an interview with Officer- uh also knownas-- Uh the incident number is C0-12-03 and it's a Internal infairs investigation. Internal affairs investigation.Uh prior to getting started I'm going to read the Witness OfficerAdmonition and that ls today's date is July 26, 2012 at 1017 hours. I amCommander Paul Cline interviewingO f f ice r - - regarding. acomplaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, GeneralOrders 26.1.1.2g Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports and General Order26.1.1.2tt Truthfulness, which Is alleged to have occurred on July 13,2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Officer- do you understandthis conversation is being tape recorded?Yes f do. .And dol have your permission to tape?Yes.

Officer- you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, amatter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been fliedagainst you and you are no t under investigation in this matter. Officer- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of anofficial investigation ofthe Renton Pollee Department. You are remindedthat section 26.11nsubordlnation and Truthfulness of the Renton PoliceDepartment General Orders do apply in this matter and that you musttruthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinaryaction as outlined in General Order 26.L Do you understand that?Yes l do.Alright. I'm gonna sign this and I'm gonna ask you to sign it as well. Andafter the interview I will furnish you with a copy of this. And if I couldhave you dateit- interjects with "Mmm hmm11 ) under yoursignature as well please.Will do.Okay.

.(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla!nts/C0-12-08: 1


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-CliNE:-UNE:-liNE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-CliNE:-


There you go.Okay for the purpose of this interview I'm gonna use yourn am e , . umthat's the name that you typically go by. Uh,-( - i n t e r j ec t s} Actually Iget cailed all kinds of things.(Cline laughs) Alright ...Thafs one of the things.Well, we'll go with.. rn, I want to draw your attention to July 13th atuh when you were working dayshift I believe on Sergeant Summer crewuh north end PatroLCorrect, the {Cline interjects with "Were you11 ) 24.The 24 district?District, district 24 yeah.Alright, uh you were working on the 13th correct?Yes.Uh did you attend briefing on the 13th?Yes.

Uh was that briefing conducted by Officer Summers or?I believe Summers was off that cycle. I believe-was he (Clineinterjects with "Okay''} OIC.So while you were -clears his throat) in that briefing, was Officer-also n that briefing?You know I believe so. I don't have any independent recollection but Ibelieve he was working that day cuz later on we were on an incident soI'm assuming he was there that morning.

(MD/H:PDADMlN:MELISSA:Complaints/C01lOS: 2


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CLINE:-LINE:-LINE:-CLlNE:-LINE:-LINE:-CLINE:-CLINE;


Alright. Nothing that would draw your attention to instantly recognizethat he was there?Uh you know perhaps i f wasn't there l would have noticed.Okay.And l, ! don't recall him not being there, so.I believe you said that when we, we had talked uh a short time ago aboutwhere you sit in briefing and you said everybody's pretty much set(- laughs) to a specific place where they sit, kind of creatures ofhabit sort of thing. Where do you sit in relation to Officer- in thebriefing?Well ! sit in the middle row uh closest to the doorand - usually sitstwo seats to my right.Okay so one Officer between you or?No, empty seat.Oh so just an empty seat?Mmmhmm.Okay on the 13th at briefing dld you notice anything unusual about Officer

have any conversation with him?Well typically we would have conversation but I have no recollection ofanything unusual, uh specifically no injuries or anything (Cline in terjectswith "Okay") that, that were noted.Would you have had an opportunity to look at his hands, specifically hisright hand, during briefing?Yeah, but if he, unless he would have drawn attention to it, l probablywouldn't have noticed unless he was like wearing a bandage orsomething !ike that, I probably wouldJve noticed, but just you know ..(Cline interjects) Okay so nothing cameto- interjects with "No,nothing") your attention in briefing?

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complalnts/C0-12-08 3


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

- No.CLINE: During that day do you recall if you went to any calls with uh Officer- only one ! recall is a uh traffic collision on NE 3rd under 405. And

-and g-i rs t and then l think uh Ralph Hyettand --howed up after that.

CLINE: Okay.- And took over the investigation.CUN E: While you were there, did you happen to notice if uh Officer- had

a conversation with Officer -- You know I have no independent recollection. It's, l mean I can just

assume that we a I talked at some point together not necessarily at thesame time.

CLINE: {Cline interjects) Okay but you're, you're not aware of any conversation,you didn't o v e r h e a r ( - interjects with "No") any just(interjects with "No") private conversation between Officer- andOfficer uh ...- -?

CLINE: - - No.CLINE: Okay. Do you recall- dears his throat) any other incidents that

you were on during that day with him?- ldon't.CLINE: During that day did you notice if there was uh anything unusual about

him and specifically any injury or was he uh holding his hand anydifferently or do you recall anything like that?

- !don't.CLINE: Okay.{MD/H:PDADMlN:MELISSA:Complaints/CO-lZ-08: 4


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-LINE:-LINE:-UNE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-CLINE:-

STATEMENTOFOFFICER

No.Now you finished that shift. Did uh did you attend Defensive Tactictraining that day?No actually I just uh did Defensive Tactic's yesterday.Okay were you aware thatOffice- had Defensive Tactic trainingthat day?Yeah, I believe he did that afternoon.Okay. Alright, uh so you didn't see hlm for the remainder of the daythen.Mmm ! don't recall seeing him after that.Okay. And if I was tuh say that the call you were on with Officer Hyettand- was approximately 1300 hours would that be about right?That'd be about right, yeah.Okay. Uh, now l want to draw your attention to July 14:h_ Did you cometo work dayshift Patrol on that day as well?Yeah l believe it was a Saturday morning.Okay. Were uh, was Off, or Sergeant Summers working that day either?l don't believe so; no. I believe uh-was still the OJC.Okay. Was Of f i c e r - p r e s en t uh at the briefing?Yes, he was. In fact I recall him being in civies and he was seated samechair, to my right.Can you tell me what you remember about that?Um, he'd mentioned that urn he had injured his, Jbelieve it was his rlghtthumb, during uh the DT training the day before and he, I remember himholding it up and !, I could see that it was, appeared to me to be swollen.And l believe he took the rest of the day and went home sick that day.

{MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints/COl2-08 5


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

CUNE: Okay. Uh, did he make any comment about whether he had receivedtreatment for that injury or anything?- You know I don't recall him saying anything about that. He, he may have.

1 ! didn't recall i tCUNE: Did you have any further conversation with him abouti t-

interjects '/No") prior to hlm leaving for the day?- No. After briefing he1 he left and !left.CliNE: Okay. Was there any mention about him trying to draw hls weapon andhaving difficulty doing that or were you not aware of that?- No. !, 11 I recall him briefly commenting about the injury happened whenhe was cuz we, hand gun retention during DT and it happened sometime

during the, one of the drills they were doing.CUNE: Okay and when we say DT we1re talking about Defensive Tactics?- Defensive Tactics.CLINE: Defensive Tactics training.- Right.CUNE: Okay.- Mmmhmm.CLINE: Um, so he left that day and you didn't have any further contact with him?

- No.CLINE: Did you talk to anybody else about his injury or anything?- No. No I didn't.CLINE: Have any conversation with, in Defensive Tactics training uh yesterday

about the injury?

- No.(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/CO-lZ-08: 6


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CLINE:-CLINE:-LINE:-CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Uh, during Defensive Tactics training did they ask prior to and after thetraining if anyone was injured prior to the training?Yeah they did. ! do specifically recall them asking just before I went outthe door.Okay.Everybody's okay, nobody's injured? Nobody was.Okay. Uh, so you had no further contact with Officer- and haveyou had anycontact- interjects "Huh uh'1 ) since uh he's beengone and, and he just came back to work yesterday! ls that correct?Yesterday morning I saw him ln the locker room when I came in and hegave me a thumbs up cuz l asked him how he was feeling (Cline interjectswith "Okay"} and that was it.And during the time that he was gone which would be July 14th throughthe 241h, did you have any contact with him?No.By phone or anything?No.Okay.Huh uh.Uh did you have any conversation to, with him about, any furtherconversation with him about how the injury occurred or?No.Okay. Uh is there anything else you can remember about the uh briefingor time you spent with him regarding this injury?Huh uh. No, no I just urn pretty much what we've talked about's all! canrecalL

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 7


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CLINE:

STATEMENT OFOFFICER- -

Okay. That'll conclude this interview and the time is 1024 hours.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints/C0-12-0S s


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RENTON POLICE DEPARTl\1ENTINTERNAL AFFAIRS

PRE-INTERVIEW NOTIFICA'110NC0-12-08COMPLI\lhJTNUMBER

Officer- per Article 16, sectionB ofthe commissioned contract, I am advisingyou that:1 The alleged complaint does I does not involve criminal activity.2. The alleged complaint does constitute misconduct that would be grounds for

tennination, suspension, or other disciplinary action.3. The alleged complaint if proven, may a:tiect your ability for continued

employment with the Department.4. I am in charge of the investigation.5. 1will be conducting the interview.

?-u-:::-\2-Date


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RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENTINTERNAL AFFAIRS

OFFICER NOTIFICATION

C0-12-08COMPLA.JN7 NUMBER

Officer- per Article 16, section 13 of the commissioned contract, I am notifYingyou that a formal investigation is being conducted in which you are considered a:XX Suspect

Witness- - - -The allegations of the investigation include the folJowing violations of the General Ordersof the Renton Police Dcprutment.26.L l.ll.B Unbecoming Conduct26.1.1.11.0 Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports26.1.1.11.IT TruthfulnessIf you are considered a suspect in this investigation, you have the right to Guildrepresentation at the time of the interview.I have scheduled the interview for "7 -"'2..-1 ...,. 11-hours.If you have any questions, let me know.

at ff;(jJ


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ACCUSED OFFICER ADMONITION

Today's date is { -7---{ _,. l 1--C0-12-08COMPLAINT NUMBER

~ - - ~ L ~ / _ 6 ~ f ________ homs. ImnCommander Paul Cline interviewingOfficer- regarding a complaint ofviolation of Renton Police Department GO's26.1.l.ll.B Unbecoming conduct26.1.1.ll.G Fictitious illness or injury report26.l.l.ll.TT Truthfulnesswhich is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 homs.Officer- do you Understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?(Answer)Officer - do you wish to have a Guild representative present dming this interview?@No) Let the record reflect that

( .../(} T f! ' / (I;-(Z_l;.r/ is present Please acknowledge yompresence bystlting yom nmne.Prior to thMrview, were you given the opportunity to read the complaint of thisincident? ~ o r No)

~ y o u given an opportunity to consult with yom representative prior to this interview?~ r N o )Officer - I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an officialinvestigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be asked questions specificallydirected and narrowly related to the performance ofyom official duties or fitness foroffice.


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You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the RentonPolice Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfullyrespond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in generalOrder No. 26.1You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by law and the Constitution ofthe United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself.I further wish to advise you that if you refuse to testify or answer questions relating to theperformance ofyour official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmentalcharges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police Department.If you do answer, neither your statements nor any information or evidence which isgained by reason of such statements can be used against you in any subsequent criminalproceeding. However, these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequentdepartmental charges.

___ ___ _2-(- (2--Date

ASSIGNED INVESTIGATOR Date

Date


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER--


DATE: July 27, 20121101

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CITRON:CLINE:

Alright my name is Paul Cline and I am a division Commander of theProfessional Standards Division of the Renton Police Department.Today's date is 7-27-12, it 's 1101 hours. Uh today I'm interviewingOfficer- And uh. we are being taped uh I need when we talkifyou answer questions I need an affirmative yes or no for a verbalanswer uh because gestures and stuff aren't picked up by the tape, okay?I understand.Okay. Before we get started I want to read you the uh Accused OfficerAdmonition and this is reference uh complaint number C0-12-08. Andthis interview is being conducted in the office of Professional Standards.Today's date is 7-27-12 at 1101 hours. I am Commander Paul Clineinterviewing Officer regarding a complaint of the violation ofthe General Orders of the Renton Police Department 26.1.1.2bUnbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2g Fictitious Illness or Injury Report and26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which is alleged to have occurred on or aboutJuly 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Officer- do youunderstand this conversation is being tape recorded?Yes.And do I have your permission to do so?Yes.Officer- do you wish to have a Guild representative present duringthis interview?Yes.And let the record reflect that Office Cathy Citron is present. Uh Cathycan you please acknowledge your presence by stating your name?Yes, this is uh Cathy Citron with the Renton Police Office.Prior to this interview were you given opportunity to read the complaintof this incident and that'd be what I explained to you uh yesterday whatthe complaint was.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla ints/CO- lZ-08- 1


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..-- .

CLINE:

CLINE:

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CLINE:

Yes.


Um okay. ( - c l e a r s his throat) Were you given an opportunity toconsult with your representative prior to the interview?Yes.Okay. Officer_l .wish to advise you that you are being questionedas part of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. Youwill be asked questions specifically.directed and narrowly related to theperformance of your official duties for fitness or duties or fitness foroffice. You are reminded that section 26.11nsubordination andTruthfulness of the Renton Police Department General Orders do apply inthis matter and that you must truthfully respond. Any refusal to respondmay result in disciplinary action as outlined in General Orders nu, number26.1. You are entitled to all th e rights and privileges guaranteed by lawand the Constitution of the United States including the right not to becompelled to incriminate yourself. I further wish to advise you that if yourefuse to testify, or answer questions relating to the performance of yourofficial duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmentalcharges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton PoliceDepartment . f you do answer, neither your statements nor anyinformation or evidence which is gained by reason of such statement canbe used against you in any subsequent criminal proceeding. However,these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequentdepartmental charges. Do you understand that?Yes.Do you realize it's th e Garrity?Yes.Okay. And that anything that, that would be gained from this sinceyou're being compelled to testify would not be admissible in criminal?Yes.Okay. Alright . I ' d like to ask you just a set of questions and they' rerelating to an incident that occurred on July 13, 2012 um they were, youwere involved with Officer Do you recall thatincident?

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla ints/C0-12-08- 2


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Yes.


Okay. Can you please state your' name and employment? nd I'm a Police Officer for the City of Renton.Are you aware of why I'm interv iewing you?Excuse me?Are you aware of why I am interviewing you?Yes.

Do you recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13,2012 at approximately 1600 hours?Yes.

Were you working on July 13th and if so what was your assignment?At that time I was on Patrol but I was scheduled to do Defensive Tactics.Okay was that at 1430 hours that the Defensive Tactics training was?Yes.

Okay. Did you attend the Defensive Tactics training at 1430?Yes.

And did O f fi c e r - ! a t t e n d that same training with you?Yes.Are you aware that Office that he injured his right thumbduring the DT training he attended with you on July 13th?Yes.

Do you know how Officer njured his right thumb.(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 3


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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

Yes.


Can you please explain to me how he injured it?He injured it while we were camping on our days off.Okay, were you, you were on a camping trip, a family trip together(- interjects wi th "Yes") or something?We went camping on July lOth and on the second day July 6, no July 11thuh we were hiking. I went out onto a log to go fishing on a lake and whileI was out there I had um my sinker came off of my line and I a s k e d to get me another sinker. And while I was bringing in my line, I heard himfall. And when he fell ( - c l e a r s his throat) he was holding his rightthumb and he was moving it and testing if it was injured. He said he, heknows it's not broken but it could be sprained. But I could see himmoving it.Okay. So he, you said when he was coming back, he slipped down a hillor something and?No he, there are, I was out on a log which was in the lake.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:-

CLINE:

CLINE:

And there was another log kind offorty-five degree angle that he cameof f ofto my log to get me a sinker. And at that time he told you th-at he had injured his right thumb and hethought it might be sprained.Yes.Okay. When office injured his thumb uh was there anyconversation between you and him about reporting this of f duty injury asan on duty injury?Not at the campgrounds.Was there at later time?Yes.



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CLINE:

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And when was that?That was um after the camping trip when I was at home. He called meand he wanted to, he asked if I was going to have DT on the 13tclears his throat). I told h im yes and he said he wanted to partner withme. Usually he doesn't partner with me and I usually-partner with OfficerBrunner because he's my neighbor, we carpool, we're friends and we'reon the same squad. Um, I thought it was weird that he asked me to umpartner with him but I, I thought he didn't tell me because I knew abouthis injury and I was his friend that it was I would be taking it easy on himand not injuring him in DT.

Okay. Now when you say you thought that he was telling you that uh thisbecause he wanted to go easy was there any mention by him that he wasplanning on reporting this as an injury that occurred on duty?We joked about um uh L&l.Okay when you say you joked about it, what do you mean you jokedabout it?When we, just like we do you know during shift and things like that, if weget hurt we say oh on the job injury, L&l, kind of thing. So, I was, wewere joking about it together.Okay. Did you know that he was going to claim that he had injured histhumb in Defensive Tactics training?I wasn't sure.Now you say you weren't sure, and I need, I need an honest answer here.Because we were, we were joking about it.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:So ...{Cline interjects) Did he, did he ever say I'm going to report it as an onduty injury or anything like tha t, or an L&l, or I'm gonna say that I injuredit at Defensive Tactics, did he ever say that to you? Anyth ing like that?

{MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla ints/C0-12-08- 5


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CLINE:

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I believe, I thought it was in jest when we were joking around on .thephone.Okay, he, he did say it?Yes.But you thought it was in jest?I thought it was in joking.Okay. Was his thumb still injured at the time of the Defensive Tacticstraining, do you know?When we were at Defensive Tactics, and we were getting ready, um wewere told to stretch out, you know limber up. I saw him moving histhumb. It looked okay to me. And then, we were told to put on glovesfor the defensive tactics.Okay. Did you know that uh following the training Officer uh orduring the training actually uh he reported his thumb as being injuredduring the training?Yes.Uh, was his thumb actually injured during the training.J'm not, can you clarify that, which time?Well his, his thumb was o r i g i na l l y ( - clears his throat) you said washurt.Yes.During the camping trip.Yes,When he fell and he injured his thumb. Uh wh, during the training Officer h went to I believe O f f i c e - and told him that he'd injuredhis thumb during the training and that he was uh um needed to makesome sort of an L&l claim or report that he'd injured his thumb in



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training. Had he actually injured his thumb in training or had he injured itat, at the campground?I know he injured it at the campground.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

And when we were doing DT, clears his throat) I did the, youknow double hold fo r my gun retention (Cline interjects with "Mmmhmm") and I turned. That's when he doubled over, almost to one knee,holding his right thumb. And in pain ( - c l ea r s his throat) . Then hewent toOff, uh Of f i c e r - and to tell him what happened that he hurthis thumb.Did you find it a little bit strange that he had made a mention that he wasthinking of reporting it as an L&l injury when he initially injured it andthen in the training he did claim that?Yes.

Did you feel that possibly he was not being truthful?Possibly. But there was a instant before that when we were doing DTtraining where we did the move and he grabbed his thumb in pain but Ithought he was just walking it off and you know flexing his thumb.Okay. So the original injury occurred in the camping trip and that wasjust a day or two before the Defensive Tactics training?Yes.

Okay. Would it surprise you if I told you that he had mentioned toanother officer, or do you know anything about the fact that hementioned to another officer, that he was going to report it in DefensiveTactics training as well?I wouldn't be surprised.Okay. Did he tell you he had mentioned that to anyone, before or afterthe injury?No.

(MD/H:PDADMJN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 7


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CLINE:

CLINE:


Okay. Why would (-clears his throat) you not be surprised by that?Because, honestly we se e him as he's- he's gonna do stupid things.Well this is a little more than stupid. I mean this is interjects with"Yes") this is uh violation of several General Orders of the PoliceDepartment, um and when you make a comment to at least, well to youand then to a, another officer, that you're planning on reporting thisinjury as happening at Defensive Tactics and then you do, that's not reallyjust- Um, did you feel at all that, that he, he was not being truthfulin this then?

Yes.CLINE:. Okay.

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

Af, let me ex, um ..(Cline interjects) Go ahead and explain.I actually thought I hurt him in DT. And when he to.ak off his glove itlooked like his thumb was swollen and when he was being treated byanother officer, by O f f ic e r - I really thought I hurt him. And he hadto sit ou t th e rest of DT and then after- took me as uh assistant to doanother move where he would put his finger in th e trigger guard andprevent us from firing and he showed us a move where we'd turn our gunwith both hands, and I did that and I did it too fast and I almost hufil.ltoo. So Ithought I u r ~ a n d now I'm hurting) too.Well let me ask you a question. You say that you, you did this move andthat he took his glove off and you immediately noticed his hand wasswollen. Do you think that an injury received apparently within secondsbefore you saw it would be swollen already?No.Was his hand uh swollen uh while you were on th e camping trip?No, I didn't see it.Okay. So when he in, injured it then and he admitted that he injured it, itdidn't swell immediately.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla ints/C0-12-0&- 8


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CLINE:

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No.


But yet, af, when he reported the injury at Defensive Tactics, he took hishand out of the glove and immediately it was swollen. Do you find thatkind of hard to believe?Yes.

Um, okay. Have you reported the, th e information that Officeinjured his hand while you were camping off duty uh to your supervisoror anybody else?

No.Do you know i f - did?I don't know.Okay. And were you uh, you were obviously present when he reportedinjuring his thumb to th e Defensive Tactics instructors, correct?Yes.

Uh, do you know which instructor he uh reported it to ?O f f ic e r -

Okay. Was any other Defensive Tactic instructor present at that time?They were all in th e room; Officer fficer Hassinger andOfficer Ashbaugh.Okay and he went directly to Of f i c e r - though?Yes.

Okay. Did you overhear what Officer old them?I don't remember what he said to them.Okay. What did they do when he showed him th e injury?Taped his uh thumb up.

{MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla ints/C0-12-08- 9


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CLINE:

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CliNE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER-- .

Okay. And then he did not continue in DT after that?No.

Okay. To your knowledge did any of the Defensive Tactics ins tructorsknow that Officer had injured himself off duty prior to th etraining class?Idon't know.You have no knowledge of that? How about O f f i c e r - Do you( - i n t e r j ec t s with "I didn't) know if he told Of f i c e r - or Officer r Officer Hassinger that he'd been injured prior to that?I was the last to go to DT, th e last one (Cline interjects with "Okay") toshow up, so I didn't know what (Cline interjects with "Okay")conversations he had.Okay. And did you talk to - prior to that?About?Prior to the Defensive Tactics training, about whether or not his uh hewas gonna report the injury at DT?Only the phone conversation we had, that we were joking. Ididn't thinkhe would actually do it.Okay. When he did report his hand injured did you tell either of theDefensive Tactics that he had injured his thumb prior?I don't remember.You don't remember telling them that? Do you know if-(clears his throat) told them that?I don't know if he told them.Okay. From what you've told me um it seems fairly clear that his handwas injured prior to this, um that it was swollen, and that at th edefensive tactics when he took his hand out of the glove it was obviouslyswollen. Um, it seems very unlikely that a hand would swell immediately

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08- 10


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CLINE:

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that quickly from pulling it out of a glove from a, a minor injury like that.With the information that he had given you, do you feel that Officer new that what he was doing was wrong and a violation of theGeneral Orders?Yes.And you said when I asked you before that it was Officer idea,on the phone when you said you thought he was joking, it was his idea toreport this as an on duty injury?Yes.Can I ask, I'd like to ask you why, when he reported it injured there, whydid you not say something to anybody that about you know his hand wasinjured prior to this. Did that cross your mind?No. I didn't know what he told his supervisor about how he got injured.Okay. Do you know what the appropriate thing to do was after his thumb, on the camping trip?Ex, excuse me?When he injured his thumb and he came back to work um and had theDefensive Tactics training, what do you think the appropriate thing forhim to have done was?He should have informed the supervisor or the instructor and sat out.Mmm hmm. Have you discussed this incident with Officer-- 13 t h ?

Yes.Since the date ofthe injury? And what was that discussion?He said uh he made a claim for urn L&l.Okay was this a phone conversation you had with him or in person?In person.



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CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Okay. What did he tell you about the L&l claim, did he tell you that itwas, did he say it was legitimate, did he say that he was claiming it thereand that it was not legitimate that it actually had injured it camping?He never said that to me.Okay. Have you discussed this incident with anyone else other thanOfficer

My wife.Okay. Now do you recall when you discussed it with Officer afteruh after he injured it camping and af ter the Defensive Tactics train ingwhere he injured or where he reported the injury? Do you rememberhow long after that it was that you talked with him next?Could I see a calendar, I can give you the day.I just need approximate, just.We went camping on our next days off.Okay. And you discussed it then?Yes.Okay. Can you think of any reason why Officer would report thisinjury uh as an L&l injury when he obviously injured his thumb on thecamping trip? Do you know if he was low on leave time? Did he sayanything about he, he didn't have time to do this or do you have any ideawhy he would say that? Or why he did say that?Um, to us it's common knowledge that Officer uses his leavetime a lot and doesn' t have a lo t of saved time, sick or personal leave.And I believe he used it for leave.Okay. Um did he say anything about that to you or did, was there anymention of that by him?No.



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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:


Okay. When you talked to him on the phone that time and he said thathe was uh gonna report it as L&l um did he say anything about why hewanted to do that or why he would do that?

Okay. Okay . s here anything else that you would like to tell me aboutthis incident and your involvement prior to my ending this interview?When I do DT, I'm really focused because I love doing that kind of stuffand technical things. I participate in Judo and when Officerinstructs I really pay attention because he has taught me a lot of Judotechniques that I haven't learned in my Dolo. I think he's a goodinstructor and I learn a lot from him for Defensive Tactics. And I was veryfocused on there. When I was doing the moves with - he showedpain on one of them, prior moves, but he walked it off. So I thought hewas okay. And I kept a constant grip and he never complained about thepain, or never complained about any injury. When I did um the lastmove, I used the same amount of pressure and turned and then that'swhen he went down.Well would it, would it make sense to you that if when you did this firstmove and you, he winced and showed pain that that was because histhumb was already injured? And that by then putting pressure on it, itcaused pain? Would that make sense?For the very first one?

CLINE: Yeah.

CLINE:

CLINE:

Yes.Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to tell me? I, I, well actually one, Ihave one last thing. You said that you were not aware if he had told uh if,if, if Off i ce r - or Officer Hassinger or Morgan were awarethat his hand was injured. You don't know if he had mentioned anythingto them or if he told them anything about this prior to it?I don't remember.You don't remember or you don't know?I really don't know if he talked to them or not.



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Okay, no problem. Alright this will conclude the interview. The time isnow 1125.Oh sorry, could 1...{Cline interjects) Oh, okay we're back on th e {-clears his throat)tape, go ahead.

Prior to thi_s investigation I really thought I hur And I really felt badthat I hurt him. But no w it um th e investigation is out and he's claiming itfrom camping. I have my doubts that I really hurt him.Yeah. So you don't really think that you hurt him during th e DefensiveTactics training?Not now.Okay. And, but, and you do feel it was from the camping trip is where heinjured it and that's why he was hurt?Yes.

Okay. That will conclude thts interview. The time is 1125 hours.



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C0-12-08

Interview QuestionsInterviewer: Commander Paul ClineOfficer: Officer-Date: 1 _,.. )-\ _, \)... Time: \ \ A

L o c a t i o ~ ~ \) D . ~ ~Interview is being recorded. Please give clear, verbal answers.Read, "Accused Officer Admonition".

1. Please state your name and employment .2. Are you aware of why I am interviewing you?

. 3. Do you recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13, 2012 at approx.1600?

4."" 5.. 6.\. 7.. Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so what was your assignment?Did you attend Defensive lactics training on July 13, 201 at 1430 hoursDid Officer attend that same training with you?Are you aware that Officer claimed that he injured his right thumb during the DTtraining he attended with you on July 13th?

\ 8. Do you know how Officer really injured his right thumb? Explain in detai l please."'\. 9. Follow-up (Admonish truthfulness}

\ 10. When injured his thumb did you both talk about him reporting it as an on-dutyviolation? What was discussed?

.- 11. Did you know he was going to claim that he injured his thumb in DT training?- 12. What discussion did you have with Officer about his injury?""' 13. Do you know why he reported it as an on-duty injury?'- 14. Was it because his leave balance is very low?"' 15. Did you report the information that Officer ctually injured his hand of f duty to your

or any supervisor?"' 16. Were you present when he reported injuring his thumb to the DT instructors?'- 17. Who were the DT instructors?""' 18. What did tell them?

........ 19. What did they do?""- 20. To your knowledge did any of the DT instructors know that ad injured himself off-

duty prior to the DT training class?. ---.... 21. Did you tell anyone else that he was injured off-duty?


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"' . 22. Did you know that what Officer nd you were doing was wrong and a violat ion ofRenton Police General Orders?

\ 23. Who's idea was it to report Officer injury as an on duty-injury?"" . 24. Why did you do it?" '- 25. Do you know what the appropriate thing to do was after injured his thumb?" ' - 26. Have you discussed this incident with Off icer since July 13th? What was that

discussion?' 27. Have you discussed the incident with anyone else?" '- 28. Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this incident and your involvement in

it prior to my ending this interview?

Date and time interview was concluded.


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RENTON POLICE DEPARTI\1ENTINTERNAL AFFAlRS

PRE-INTERVIEW NOTIFICATIONC0-12-08COMPLAINTNUMBER

Officer per Article 16, section B of the commissioned contract, Iam advising you that:1.2.3.4.5.

The alleged complaint does I does not involve criminal activity. Pc-\ ' \ - \ \ ~ "Tun


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OFFICER NOTIFICATION

C0-12-08CO:MPLA1NT NUMBER

Officer per Article 16, section B of the commissioned contract, I amnotifying you that a formal investigation is being conducted in which you are considereda:

XX Suspect_____ WitnessThe allegations of the investigation include the following violations of the General Ordersof the Renton Police Department.26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming Conduct

26 1.1.11. G Fictitious illness or Injury Reports26.l.l.ll.TT TruthfulnessIf you are considered a suspect in this investigation, you have the right to Guildrepresentation at the time of the interview.I have scheduled the interview forhours.I f you have any questions, let me know.

Date

Date


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RENTON POLICE DEPARTI\1ENTINTERNAL AFFAIRS


Today's date is Tu.Lq 31 1 :J. 012C0-12-08COMPLAINT NUMBER

at _1_/_JL/_Cl_--=lp._____ ours. I amCommander Paul Cline interviewing Officer egarding acomplaint of violation ofRenton Police Department GO's26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming conduct26.l.l.ll.G Fictitious illness or injury report26.1.1.11. TT Truthfulnesswhich is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Officer-. do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?(Answer) f JD .Officer-do you wish to have a Guild representative present during thisinterview? ~ r No) Let the record reflect that

, ~ a __..}W.... A l . ~ ~ is present Please acknowledge yourpres ce by stating yo nam :Prior to this interview, were you given the opportunity to read the complaint of thisincident? ~ r No)

~ o u given an opportunity to consult with your representative prior to this interview?~ N o )Officer- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an officialinvestigation ofthe Renton Police Department. You will be asked questions specificallydirected and narrowly related to the performance ofyour official duties or fitness foroffice.


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You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the RentonPolice Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfullyrespond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in generalOrder No. 26.1You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by law and the Constitution ofthe United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself.I further wish to advise you that if you refuse to testifY or answer questions relating to the .performance ofyour official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmentalcharges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police DepartmentIfyou do answer, neither your statements nor any information or evidence which isgained by reason of such statements can be used against you in any subsequent criminalproceeding. However, these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequentdepartmental charges.

-r >f-.; 2-Date

-4!CLSSIGNED INVESTIGATORC E . L . J . ~ ~


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER


DATE: July 31, 20121406

CLINE:

CLINE:

---SJOLIN:CLINE:

My name is Paul Cline. I'm the Commander of the Professional StandardsDivision fo r the Renton Police Department. Uh today's date's July 31,2012 at approximately 1406 hours. Uh the purpose of this meeting is tointerview Officer reference Renton PoliceDepartment Internal Complaint number C0-12-08. Um,- since weare gonna be on tape I would like to uh just ask that any answers youhave are verbal, yes, no. Uh the recorder does not pick up nods (interjects with "Okay") or anything like that so please be verbal. Andplease speak clearly if you can.Okay.Prior to our interview I want to read you the Renton Police DepartmentInternal Affairs Accused Off icer Admonition. Today's date is July 31, 2012at 1406 hours. I am Commander Paul Cline interviewingO f f i c e r e g a r d i n g complaint of violation of Renton Police DepartmentGeneral Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2g FictitiousIllness or Injury Report and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which is alleged tohave .occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Officer o you understand this conversation is being tape recorded?I do.And do I have your permission to do so?Yo u .Officer o you1 have a Guild representat ive presentduring this interview?I do.Let the record reflect that Sergeant Craig Sjolin is present. Pleaseacknowledge your presence by stating your name.Craig Sjolin.Prior to this interview were you given the opportunity to read thecomplaint of the uh ofthis incident?

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 1


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Alii was given was the uh notice that Iwas subject. I never reallyreceived a complaint.Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and uh give you th e complaint allegation then.I'm gonna put th e notification on pause. I know we discussed this but uhapparently I didn't give you the actual complaint.Yeah.Let me go ahead, let me go and do it.Okay.So we will be pausing the tape for one minute. Okay we are back on thetape and. . he complaint summary is reference C0-12-08. And itreads the complaint received on July 19, 2012 alleges that O f f ic e r - alsely reported injuring his right thumb while participating in aRenton Police Department Defensive Tactics training at 200 Mill AvenueSouth on July 13, 2012 at 1600 hours. Officer reported heinjured his thumb during the training. How off, officer, however, Officer eported that prior to attending the training shehad noticed his right thumb had been injured and told her thathe was going to attend Defensive Tactics training later that day and wasgoing to report that injury at that time. Officer attended theDefensive TactiCs training on July 13th, 1430 hours and did in fact reportto the instructors he had injured his right thumb during one of th etraining $Cenarios when his thumb was wedged between O f f i c e r holster and hip. Department and City Injury reports detailing th e incidentwere completed and then signed by Officer The allegations, ifproven to be true, would constitute a violation of th e Renton PoliceDepartment General Orders listed below. A violation of General Ordersuh 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, General Orders 26.1.1.2g FictitiousIllness or Injury Report and violation of General Orders 26.1.1.2ttTruthfulness. Are you aware of the complaint uh allegation against youat this point?I am.Okay. Were you given opportunity to co.nsult with your representativeprior to interviewing?I was.

( M D / H : P D A D M I N : M E L I S S A : C o m p l a i n t s / C 0 - 1 2 - 0 8 ~ 2


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CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Okay. Officer I wish to advise you you're being questioned aspart of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You willbe asked questions specifically directed and narrowly related to th eperformance of your official duties for fitness of office. You are remindedthat sections 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness ofthe Renton PoliceDepartment General Orders do apply in this matter and that you musttruthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinaryaction as outlined in General Orders number 26.1. You are entitled to allthe rights and privileges guaranteed by law and the Constitution of th eUnited States including th e right not to be compelled to incriminateyourself. I further wish to advise you that if you refuse to testify, oranswer questions relating to the performance of your official duties orfitness for duty, you will be subject to departmental charges which couldresult in your dismissal from th e Renton Police Department. If you do notanswer, neither your state, or I'm sorry, if you do answer neither yourstatements nor any information or evidence which is gained by reason ofsuch statement can be used against you in any subsequent criminalproceeding. However, these statements may be used against you inretali, in relation to subsequent departmental charges. And basicallythat's your Garrity warning. Do you, do you understand that?I, I understand.Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and sign that and then I'm gonna have youand Sergeant Sjolin sign it. And date it please . And I will provide you acopy of this uh following the interview. Al r i gh t . , urn can you st, stateyour name and employment please?

~ P o l i c e Officer of the City of Renton.Are you aware of why rm interviewing you t o d a y , - ?Yes.

Do you recall th e incident that we are here to discuss that occurred onJuly 13th at approximately 1600 hours?Yes.Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so what your assignment?I was assigned to PatroliB North as the 1 Robert 22.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints /C0-12-08 3


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CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Okay. Did you attend Defensive Tactics training on July 13th at 1430hours?Yes.Did Officer also attend that same trdining with you?Yes.Uh I'd like to ask you right off the bat here- how did you injure yourright thumb?Um, I initially hurt it camping.Okay. Can you explain a little more about how that had happened?Uh, when, while I was camping uh with a couple offamilies, - f am i l ywas one of the families there. Um, I was going down to assist him cuz hewas fishing and I slipped on a ravine and uh hyper-extended my thumb(Cline interjects with "Okay"} uh on a tree branch.Did you seek any medical treatment for that or?No.Okay. How bad was the injury?I, I was able to function at work. I had no problems manipulating myholster or any other duty of my office. I mean, (Cline interjects with"Okay") it was sore, I, I have pain but I could sti ll use it and it's not likeany other day where I come to work with pain.

CLINE: Okay.So.

CLINE: Was Of f i ce r -w i th you when you injured your thumb?He was.

CLINE: And did you tell him about the injury?(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08- - 4


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

I did.Okay. In the days after you injured your thumb camping and before youattended Defensive Tactics training on July 13th, did you call Officer

I did.And during that conversation did you tell O f fi c e r - tha t you weregoing to report that your right thumb was injured and that it occurredduring the Defensive Tactics training on July 13th?I didn't tell him that, but we did joke about uh L&l.What did you, what do you mean you joked about it?Uh it, it's, it's, it's part of the culture where we come from that we jokeabout oh you're gonna get L&l, oh you know. It, it wasn't uh, it wasn't anintention to actually do the claim. It was just joking about it. And thenthat's when I asked him hey, i f you're gonna go to Defensive Tactics,since you know my thumb is sore would you mind paring up with me cuzyou can mitigate from it getting any worse.

Okay. So did you ever make the statement to him that you were going,or something similar to that you were gonna report it as an L&l injury orthat you were going to (inaudible) .. nterjects) I, I made a comment like hey you know if you hurt atcamping it's sick leave if you hurt it at on duty or in training then it's L&land we joked {Cline interjects with "Okay"} about it.Did you specifically tell him you were going to report it?No.As an L&l?No.Okay. Uh did he have anything to say when you told him that?Well we, he joked about it and hahaha. But he didn't say oh that's stupidor you know cuz he knew I was joking about it.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints /C0-12.-08 5


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. --

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Okay. Did you report to any of th e DT instructors that you'd injured yourthumb uh during the DT training?I did.Did you tell any ofthose Defensive Tactics instructors that you hadinjured your thumb prior to that?I did.Who, who'd you tell that to?I told, I told prior to the first scenario that I hurt my thumb uhcamping. And he says so you're not gonna do th e scenarios? I said no, 1can use my thumb. I'm gonna man up, I'm gonna do it. So he (Clineinterjects with "Okay") said okay.Okay. And that was a true statement?Yes.

Did you tell any ofthe other Defensive Tactics instructors anything aboutit?I told uh Officer before DTtrainingthat I, I'd hurt my thumbcamping, yeah.Okay. And what was his response?Uh, I don't remember him having a response, you know, okay. I mean, I,I, I don't remember him having much of a response of anything. I mean Idon't remember him saying can you do it or not? I don't remember him,his reaction to it at all.Okay. When, when you say that you asked uh O f f ic e r - t o be yourDefensive Tactics partner, is that something you would normally do?No.

Um, do you think it would've been as easy to simply go to training andtell whoever you were with that your thumb had been injured and thatuh to go easy on it?



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CLINE:

STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Possibly, but I know, I know O f fi ce r -ma r t ia l arts background. Iknow he's got a martial arts background, so do L I know that he knowswhen to let up. So I feel safer with him being that I know him and I knowhis abilities. I, I didn't trust going to DT uh training and going withsomebody that I wasn't as familiar or comfortable with and then telling'em hey take it easy. I mean, things are gonna happen anyway, so.Okay. Did you tell anybody else that you'd irijured your thumb uhcamping?Uh, Officer

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:

CLINE:

I mean, I, I joked about it throughout the day so I mean there might havebeen other people that I told in jest, I, I don't remember everybody, Imean I remember telling Officer In fact you know I, to be honestI don't remember her reaction either.Okay. Now when we talked about Officer when you contactedOfficer . was that at a traffic collision scene on July 13th at about1:00pm?That's correct, yes.Okay. And did you have a conversation with her at that time?Obviously I did, yeah.

CLINE: Yeah.

CLINE:

l don't remember the entire conversation.

Okay. Did she, during that conversation, notice that your thumb wasinjured and swollen and ask you about it?Weill showed it to her.

CLINE: Okay.1mean you can look at it and i t's still kind of swollen but I mean this is onan injured hand. I had (Cline interjects with "Yeah") surgery on this hand

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 7


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

twelve years ago and it's always gonna, I mean from day to day, todaythe hand hurts. Um, on the days it doesn't and today this, the thumb isstill swollen but I mean other days it 's fine.

CLINE: Okay.It just happened to be uh part ofthe camping injury as well as just thegeneral condition of my hand.

CLINE: Okay.

SJOLIN:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

But it doesn't keep me from my duties.For reference on the tape, Officer was showing CommanderCline uh a prior injury or preexisting injury and condition.When you injured your thumb camping um did it swell up immediately( interjects with "No"} or did it take a while fo r it to swell up?It didn't swell up immediately. Took a while, maybe a day or two.Okay. And was it still swollen at the time you went into Defensive Tacticstraining?I believe it was going down already at that point.Okay, but it was still swollen at that point?A little bit.Okay. Did you tel l Officer that when she noticed the injury toyour, to your thumb that you were going to say it happened in DT laterthat day?

I did, I did say that in jest, yes.Okay. And you say that was in jest?Yes.Okay. What was her response to that?

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in t s /C0-12-08- - - 8


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

I, I don't remember. I don't recall. As I said, I said it in jest. I don't youknow I 'm saying it in passing.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:

CLINE:

So.

Did, did Officer um or I'm sorry. Did you ever tell Officerhad actually injured your hand in the first place?I don't recall, but I might have.

how you

Okay. Would it su.rprise you if I said that she did not recall you evertelling her that you'd injured your hand camping?It would surprise me.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

Yeah.Now did you call Officer- on the phone after the camping trip?

Yes, before uh before returning to work.Okay. Did you at any time during that conversation tell him you weregoing to claim the injury to your thumb had occurred during DT trainingon July 13th?I think we already answered that question. Uh in jest, we joked about it,but I never told him I was actually gonna do it_Okay. Now did you go on a subsequent camping trip with Officer uh- f o l l ow i ng the uh initial camping trip where you were injur, youinjured your thumb and after the L&l or I'm sorry after the uh DefensiveTactics training?Are you saying did I go camping with him after. .(Cline interjects) Right, after the Defensive Tactics training?Yes.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 9


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CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Did you have any conversation about your injury at that time with him?I don't recall having any conversation about it at all (Cline interjects with"Okay") at that camping trip.At, when you came back to work did, did you mention anything to asupervisor about your thumb when you came back to work or?The day after Defensive Tactics I talked to ..(Cline interjects) No I mean prior to that. When you injured your handurn camping ..Right.Uh when you came back to work uh ...That was the first day back to work and that was ..(Cline interjects) Okay that was your first day back to work?That was the defensive tactics (Cline interjects with "Okay") day, yeah Ju~ interjects with "And") July 13th.

t U t J ~Who, who did you notify?Um, no I didn't tell anybody about my thumb being hurt at camping whenI came back.No, no I meant when you came back to work. The first day back to workafter you came back from camping, after you came back from thetraining, the Defensive Tactics training?Oh, okay. So training was on the 13th, my first day back was on the 14th.

CLINE: Yes.

CLINE:

Um, the day that it happened on the 13th was, we, the training was 2:30to 4:30. Uh Officer was Officer In Charge and she left early thatday. Urn, just like any other injury I was gonna see how well it went andsee if I could continue with my duties.Mmm hmm.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 10


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Urn, when I came in the next morning I told her about it and I told heryou know I don't know if lean man, manipulate my holster. She said gocheck it ou t because that's going to be the make or break whether youcan work today or not. So I went upstairs and I tried to manipulate theholster and I couldn't get the, as I'm showing you, I couldn't get this halfway down.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE: -

So.

And did you tell her how you injured your hand?Yeah, I told her it was because of DT.Did you make any mention to her whatsoever that you had injured yourthumb prior to that in ( interjects with "No") camping?No.Why would you nofhave told her that?

Well, the injury at camping it was one of those things I mean I work everyday with pain. I mean, if, if I, I, my daughter plays softball and I helpcoach sometimes. If I get hi t in the shin with a, a softball I'm not gonnago run to my supervisor and say hey I got hi t in the shin it hurts. Um, I, Ideal with it. I've become accustomed to dealing with pain throughoutwork. But when I got, uh when I exasperated it through DT by getting itstuck between the holster and, and Officer hip, where he couldlet go and it was still stuck um that was what exasperated it to the pointwhere I couldn't use it . I, I probably should have told her about thecamping part.

Well wasn't that the original reason the hand was injured?It was hurt, yes.And then it, you were claiming it was reinjured during the DefensiveTactics training, but don't you feel it would have been appropriate to saythat it was an injury I got while I was off duty camping and then when 1. .. nterjects) In hindsight.



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CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

...went to Defensive Tactics training it was reinjured?Yes, in hindsight that's probably what I should have done.Okay, did you do that?I did not .Okay. Do you think that it, it might, when you were um, uh going in fortreatment and you're telling uh whoever was giving you treatment whyor ho w you injured your hand, do you think it would have been beneficialfor them to know how the initial injury happened?Well they never asked. I mean, they, I did tell them about my, my wristbeing operated on and they didn't put that on the form either.Did you tell them that you injured your hand during Defensive Tacticstraining?I did.Then why wouldn't you tell them that you'd injured it a day before fallingdown and hurting it?Mmm don't know. I, I don't know.Do you think that's something ( interjects with "It's prob") thatwould have been important to tell them?Probably should have told them, yes.Okay. Did you tell any of the personnel who were giving you medicaltreatment that you injured your hand prior to that, camping?No.When you filled out your Officer's uh or when the Officer's uhSupervisor's Report of Injury and the City's incident report were filled outas well as the L&l forms, did you make any mention that your hand wasinjured prior in the camping trip?No.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08: 12


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Did you mention that it was injured, injured during Defensive Tacticstraining?Yes.Okay. Looking back on that, do you think that's appropriate or that'sright?No. Probably, I mean obviously I'm sitting here now l probably shouldhave disclosed it, yeah.

CLINE: Okay.I mean, I, I, like I said when I got injured the first time, when I got hurtcamping, it was pain. I could deal with it. It, it was, it was manageable.probably should have sat out in DT. But I, being the way I am and, and,and, I mean aside from getting hi t by a car or you know qreaking my wristat another job, I've never been on L&l before. And I come in with pain allthe time.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:

So it's not, my intent was not to soak the system so to, you know and,and, and, and that term soak the system meaning get hurt outside, comein and, and use L&l. I was gonna work through it. Through the pain andeverything. And then when I had the incident actually happen I know itlooks bad because of what I said, um joking and, and you know it was apoor choice of words obviously, um and then when it really happened Ithought that I could get through training without it happening. Cuz I'vebeen through some of the scenarios and tactics in DT before thishappened and I thought okay I'm good to go. And then we did that onetechnique from the back where my thumb got stuck between the holsterand the belt and I, it ha, he turned so quick I couldn't tell him whoa holdon, wait. So I mean that exacerbated it more where I couldn't use it(Cline inter jects with "But"). But I understand what you're saying.Yeah but didn't you just tell me though that the reason you went withOf f i ce r -was because he wouldn't go fast and because he knewyour thumb was injured?He, he wouldn't grab onto it and hold onto it. But this got stuck betweenthe holster and the belt, where he had no control. I mean (Cline

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints /C0-12-08 13


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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

SJOLIN:

CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

interjects with "Okay") I, I if I pulled it would have pulled my thumbanyway so.Weill know you said it wasn't that big a deal when you came in that youfelt you could do the training. Does it, does it seem a little unusual thatOfficer in a conversation with you would look down at you and,and recognize that your hand was injured if it wasn't injured very badly?( interjects with "Mmm") If she and she would specifically ask( interjec ts with "It") you what did you do to your thumb?I don't think without me showing both ofthem together she would havenoticed that this one was swollen compared to that one.But she did.I, I don't know how she could have seen that without me putting themtogether.

Okay. Um ...Did you put 'em together?I did. As far as, what I can remember I did. I can't (Cline interjects with"Okay") rem, I, ! ..Trying to think back to that traffic stop there's nothingat that traffic stop that makes me think she would look down and sayholy you're thumb is huge. Cuz ..(Cline interjects) And are, are you talking about the uh th e trafficcollision?The, I'm sorry th e collision, yeah.Right, okay.Cuz my thumb was not that big. Honestly it wasn't that big. It wasalready coming down. It was already, so I mean Ican't imagine her justlooking at my thumb saying wow it's huge, I, I don't, I don't find thatplausible.Did she ask you what was wrong with it?She must have, I mean I, I (Cline interjec ts with "Well") I would have toldher what happened if she ..



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CLINE:

STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Well, okay I'm, I'm guessing i f she asked you how, how it got injured thehshe obviously did notice it was injured, correct?I'm, I'm assuming (Cline interjects with "Okay") that I put them togetherto show her, look at that.

CLINE: Okay.

SJOUN:CLINE:SJOLIN:CLINE:

SJOLIN:CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

I mean.Commander Cline?Yes?Can I ask a clarity question?Um, can you hold it 'ti ll after the end there? I'd appreciate (Sjolininterjects with "It's" ) it.Okay.Thank you. Uh, did you have e ' nough , - did you have enough leavetime ava_ilable to be on sick leave fo r the sixty hours that you were goneas a result of the injury to your thumb?Uh when I looked at my leave balance now no I didn't.How much, how much time, leave time did you have in your sick leave?When I look at it now I, I think I'm at six.Six hours?Six hours, yeah.

CLINE: Okay.I, I, that's sick leave. But (Cline interjects with "Right") Personal Leave,which if I were to stay out they wind up taking i t from Personal Leave so,cuz I know that 's happened before. Melissa says hey you don't haveenough sick leave we're gonna take it out of PL. I had enough to coverthat.



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-----------------------------------

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Okay. Did you know that the leave time that you took as a result of thejob injury was going to require the Police Department to call in officers onovertime to cover for your absence?No.Okay. -do you feel that you were totally truthful in this matter?Yes. I, I, 1...{Cline interjects) Do you feel, do you feel that even by omission, by nottelling people how the injury initially occurred that in some way thatmight have been less than truthful?Potentially, but that wasn't my intent. Um, I, I've never given thedepartment here or my previous department any reason to question myintegrity and I understand how it looks. I've worked for you as, when youwere my Sergeant. I mean you know me, when do you ever see mewithout a smile on my face? I'm, I'm a, a jovial person. I, I'm, I'm aprankster. You know, I'm the type of guy that's gonna put ketchup on asanitary napkin and put it on somebody's locker. I mean I'm a jokesterlike that so, that 's my character. It's out of character for me to try to getone over on the man or try to claim something that , that it isn't. That'snot in my character.

Commander Cline and Officer alk over each other.CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

But you do understand how it could look when ..I, I, I do know how it looks, yes ....when we discuss things like you know I didn't have enough sick leave, I,I didn't tell anybody how I injured it, do you, do you think that .. nterjects) I, I know it looks bad. I know it looks bad .

...that, that that, that might make somebody think you were ( interjects with "I") concealing something?I, I know that it would make it look that way and I know it looks bad. Butthat was not my intent and it, there was no premeditation whatsoever.Even though we joked about it, and that's why I said you know it's poorly



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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

chosen words. And in retrospect, you know I jinxed myself. Cuz I didn'tplan to get hurt. And I didn't plan to, to claim L&l. I planned to continueworking through the pain.Okay. Did you discuss with Sergeant Sjolin uh about this incident um andhow you'd injured your thumb?Prior to coming here, yes.Okay. And when you init ially spoke to him, is the information you justgave me the same as what .. nterjects) Yes .

...what you told him at that time?To the best of my recollection, yes.Have you discussed this incident with Officer- since July 13th and ifso what was that discussion?Uh ...

(Cline interjects) Other than what you've told me already?No.Okay. Have you discussed this incident with anyone else?No, jus t Sergeant Sjolin.Okay. When did you return to full duty?It was the last rotation ..the 25th.Okay. Now that would mean you were off I, I believe about sixty hours ofleave time?Yeah, about there, yes.And that was all claimed under job injury .. nterjects) Yes.



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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

... leave, correct?Yes.Okay. -that's alii have at this time un, unless I have any other thingthat I, I need to call you back for, for any other questions for clarification.At this time I want to give you an opportunity uh to tell me if there'sanything about this incident and your involvement um that you wouldlike me to know that I have not covered in this.If my intent was to actually claim a non-work related injury under L&l, Iwouldn't have told a soul. I would have kept it to myself, I would havewent to training and I would let it take its course. That right there showsthat I did not have th e intent to do that. The joking part of it is mycharacter, I joke about it. That's part of the culture from where Icomefrom. I would not jeopardize, I'm th e only one who works in my family.wouldn't jeopardize my job. I stand to lose about tw o million, two milliondollars from now until th e time I retire atthis job, and Iwouldn't risk thatfor a few sixty hours off that I didn't need to take off. Um, and I wouldno t jeopardize friends' jobs by, by bringing them into this. So, I know itlooks bad. I know that the gravity of the situation is very high. I knowthat if an outside person were to have heard me say something like that, Iwould've been putting the department in a bad light. That I understandwas wrong.Okay, and you, you do admit that you made th e statements to Officerland Officer- about filing this as an, a Jl injury bu t you werenot serious, you were joking .. nterjects) Correct... is that correct what you're saying?Correct, absolutely.But you did make those statements?I did.Okay . Anything else-Can I confer with Sergeant Sjolin outside real quick before 1...



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CLINE:SJOLIN:

CLINE:

CLINE:

STATEMENT OFOFFICER

(Cline interjects) Sure. Um, tel l you what ..(Sjolin interjects) And can, can I put one the tape just to clarify aquestion?: nterjects) Or do you want to ..Well hang on let me, let me, let me just check first and then, and we'lldiscuss it and then we can (Sjolin interjects with "Sure") (inaudible). I'mgonna begoing offthe tape here, or off the recording. Uh the time is2:33. Alright the time is 2:37. This is Commander Cline, uh Officer sked fo r a few moments to confer with his Guild representativeprior to making his final statement. Um- we had talked aboutclarification on one of the issues. You said that um when Officersaw your injured right thunib that there had been something else in youropinion that brought her attention to that. What was that?Actually it was that that, that started the whole scenario, from myrecollection is I had surgery on both arms. Um, I had three masses takenout of each arm and I had stitches and then the right arm uh one of thembruised really bad and it covered pretty much the majority of my innerbicep and my tricep.What, can I ask real quick, when was that injury to that arm and whenwas it (inaudible)?Uh, for the surgery?

CLINE: Yes.

CLINE:

CLINE:

1believe it was on the 10th_ I, I got a new phone so I'd have to check myold phone cuz I had ...(Cline interjects) The 10th of July, 2012?I believe so, yeah.Okay so within a few days of when you contacted O f f i c e ~ That's correct.

CLINE: Okay.(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 19


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CLINE:

STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Yes. So I still had stitches in there and, and it was all bruised. And thatbrought it to her attention. She goes dude, what did you do? And thenthat's when I started getting jovial and joking with her and saying oh youknow Igot shot and stupid stuff like that. And then I said yeah check ou tmy thumb. And) pu t th e tw o thumbs together and that's gotta be whereshe saw that the thumb was a little bit swollen. Cuz otherwise 1. ..She didn't specifically ask you what happened to your thumb?Idon't recall that because it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't that bad. I meanit's probably only just a little bit bigger than what it is now and that's notthat bad.

CLINE: Okay.Um, th e other thing I wanted to do was say that uh .. l wanted to appealto as, as a former supervisor of mine knowing my character that if itcomes down to it, I'm not going to jeopardize my job or anybody else'sjob on, on no t telling the truth because integrity is, is paramount in th efoundation of being a police officer. So I'm not gonna come in here andlie to you. I know how bad it looks. But Iwould hope that when it comesdown for you to give a recommendation to th e Chief, verbal orotherwise, that you would also fall back on my character as a person,never having had my fntegrity brought into question before um and thatwhen I did go to training and I contacted uh Officer to go totraining, the reason why I did that was because I knew he knew about myinjury. He would take it easy so that Iwouldn't exacerbate this. And itwas an equipment issue, it wasn't him. It was nobody's fault that it gotstuck. Had that no t of got, happened, had it no t gotten stuck wewouldn't be here. Um, the other thing is I want to reiterate is that I toldOfficer uh at th e beginning of DT as I walked in to drop mygear, hey just to let you know I hurt my thumb. And, to, to th e best of myrecollection his only reaction was oh, okay, cuz then he was ready to patme down and okay let's go. Cuz where we're from we deal with pain.We, that's just how we are. Uh right before th e first scenario when theypu t us under their hood I told th e same thing. I said hey listen,I hurt thumb. He asked me so are you not gonna do th e scenarios? I saidno, I'm gonna man up, I'm gonna do 'em, let's go for it, you know? Um,after coming out from under the hood in that first scenario I had tomanipulate, manipulate niy holster and get th e gun out to uh engageOfficer Hassinger who was a role player. I did that fine, no problem. It

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08: 20


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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

wasn't until after the incident where my thumb got exacerbated that Icouldn' t manipulate the holster. Urn ...Can I ask you a question on the part about where you said your, yourthumb was injured. When you injured your thumb and you removed, Ibelieve you were wearing gloves at the time, is that correct?I know we had gloves on. I'm trying to remember i f I had gloves onduring that scenario. I think I did.And when the gloves are removed um Officer -said hat when youremoved the glove he could notice that your thumb was noticeablyswollen. Um, again, uh noticing that your thumb was swollen um do youthink that that swelling would have occurred within five seconds afteryou.injured it during DT? nterjects) Well it was, it was already a little bi t swollen from theinjury, the, the (Cline interjects with "Okay") previous injury um but Idon't know how much it swelled from the time that it injured to the timeI took off the glove so !. .. (inaudible).Have you discussed uh Officer nterview with him?No.Did he bring anything up to you about it?No. My understanding is uh from other officers he's under a gag order,so.

Did you uh, or are you aware uh, would you be surprised if I told that uhOfficer- had told me that he does not now believe that he injuredyour thumb during Defensive Tactics training?It well, I mean the gear did bu t it would, it would surprise me if he saidyeah I didn't do it, yeah.Did he say he did it at the time?. Injured it at the time?Weill, he said sorry. I mean we're, we're working together and then itget's injured and he's like oh you okay, sorry. So I mean to me that'salmost, that's like an admission that you know he's a party to it so.

(MD/H:PDADM IN:MEUSSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 21


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:Party to the injury.Alright. That's gonna conclude the interview and the time is now 2:43p.m.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in ts /CO- lZ-08 zz


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C0-12-08Interview QuestionsInterviewer: Commander Paul ClineOfficer: Officer

n { l ,.,.....,Date: t __.- ::> .-- l r_.,... Time: / ~ ( 0 lPL o c a t i o n : _ _ _ _ , _ ~ - = - - ? _ - = J _ O___ _-,.._P.__ _ c _ ~ __Interview is being recorded. Please give clear, verbal answers .Read, "Accused Officer Admonition".

1. Please state your name and employment.2. Are you aware of why I am interviewing you?3. Do you recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13, 2012 at approx.

1600?...._, 4. Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so what was your assignment?' - 5. Did you attend Defensive Tactics training on July 13, 201 at 1430 hours'- 6. Did Off ice r -a t tend that same training with you?'- 7. How ahd when did you injure your right thumb?

- 8. Was Off ice r -wi th you when you injured your thumb?9. Did you tell him about it?

- 10. In the days after you injured your thumb camping and before you attended DT training onthe 13th did you call Officer-

- 11. Did you tell o f f i c e r - that you were going to report that your right thumb injuryoccurred during the defensive tactics training on July 13th? What did you tell him?

- 12. What did he say when you told him that?'-...y 13. Did you report to the DT instructors that you injured your thumb during the DT training?\j 4. Was that true?'v 15. Who did you tell?'y 16. What did they do?'v 17. Did any of the DT instructors know you had injured your thumb off duty while camping with

Officer- prior to attending DT training on July 13th.18. Were any of the DT instructors aware that you were going to claim the injury as occurring on

duty prior to you doing so? Had you discussed what you were intending to do with them or\ anyone else besidesOfficer-

, 19. Did you tell anyone else that you were injured off-duty?20. Did you contact Of f i c e r - ~ t a traffic collision scene on July 13 at about 1300?


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21. Did you have a conversation with her?22. Did she notice your thumb was injured and swollen?

" ' 23. Did you tell her you were going to claim it was injured during the DT class you were going toattend later that day?~ 24. What was her response to that?

""'- 25. Did you know that whatOfficer- and you were doing was wrong and a violation ofRenton Police General Orders?

\. 26. Did you call off icer-on he phone after the camping trip and tell him you were goingto claim the injury to your thumb had occurred during DT training on July 13th?

\ 27. Who's idea was it to report that your injury occurred on duty at the DT training?...--- 28. Why did you do it?

' 29. Did you discuss the fact that you had claimed the injury to your thumb occurred during DTtraining and that you had filed an L&llnjury claim with o f f i c e r - o n a subsequentcamping trip you took with him following your attendance at the DT training?

-..... 30. Do you know what the appropriate thing to do was after you injured your thumb?~ 31. Did you complete and sign the Supervisors Injury Report and the City of Renton Incident

Report that detailed your injury as occurring at DT training on July 13, 2012?\ 32. Was that a lie?\ 33. Did you initial the L&l SIF-2 form af f i r \ inghat the statements on the form were true to the

best of your knowledge and belief? \ 34. Was that true? \ 35. Did you have enough available leave time to be of f on.sick leave fo r the 60 hours you were

gone as a result of the injury to your thumb?' - 36. Did you know that the leave time that you took as Jl would require the Police Department to

call in officers on overtime to cover for your absence?37. Did you have a discussion with Sergeant Sjolin about this incident and how you injured your

thumb?38. What did you tell him?39. Have you discussed this incident with Officer- since July 131h? What was that

discussion?40. Have you discussed the incident with anyone else?41. What was discussed in those conversations?42. Do you know that what you did by reporting the injury to your thumb as being an on-duty

injury was wrong and a violation of department General Orders?'- 43. When and how did you return to full duty?

44. Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this incident and your involvement init prior to my ending this interview?

Date and time interview was concluded.


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C0-12-08COMPLAJNT NUMBER

Today's date is August 8, 2012 at__ _J_L._0_3__ _ _ _ hours. I amCommander Paul Cline interviewing Officer regarding acomplaint of violation ofRenton Police Department GO's26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming conduct26.l.l.ll.G Fictitious illness or injury report26.l.l.ll.TT Truthfulnesswhich is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Officer- do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?(Answer) \ / f; SOfficer-, do you wish to have a Guild representative present during thisinterview? ~ r No) Let the record reflect thattJ - "\...:U.,... ~ J 1 1 t v - ~ - l ~ " ; t f s ' present. Please acknowledge your

pres by stating your name. #Prior to t h ~ i e w , were you given the opportunity to read the complaint of thisincident? r No)

~ y o u given an opportunity to consult with your representative prior to this interview?~ r N o ) Officer- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an officialinvestigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be asked questions specificallydirected and narrowly related to the performance of your official duties or fitness foroffice.


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You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the RentonPolice Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfullyrespond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in generalOrder No. 26.1You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by law and the Constitution ofthe United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself.I further wish to advise you that ifyou refuse to testify or answer questions relating to theperformance of your official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmentalcharges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police Department.I f you do answer, neither your statements nor any information or evidence which isgained by reason of such statements can be used against you in any subsequent criminalproceeding. However, these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequentdepartmental charges.

Date

Documents

83 _Renton Police Department Public Records