Good Versus Evil

In Pursuit of The Ultimate Frontier

A discussion with

Richard Kieninger

Copyright 2008

All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in anyform by photostat, microfilms, xerography, or any other means, orincorporated into any information retrieval system; electronic ormechanical, without the written permission of the copyright owner.

Printing historyFirst printing 2009

PRINTED IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Edited by Warren Curry, et al

Notes Regarding the Recording and Transcription

The In Pursuit of the Ultimate Frontier series was remastered fromthe original ten-inch, reel-to-reel tapes that were recorded at ten inchesper second and, thus, required no cleanup. Only occasionally werethe following grammatical touches needed.

Textual Editings• All punctuation• Noun and pronoun agreement (case, number, and gender)• Verb tense• Subject-verb agreement• Article use• Dividing up of really, really long sentences• Removal of extraneous and redundant words and phrases• Creation of the topic titles and table of contents

Audio Remastering• Tape hiss reduction

Table of Contents

All Evil Is of Human Origin 1Telepathic Hypnosis Is the Tool of Evil 2Becoming Susceptible to Telepathic Thoughts 3The Methods of Evil 5History of the Original Illuminati 8History of the Shamballa and Agarthi 12The Agarthi Work with the Nazi 15Funding the Nazi Party 15Closing 17

In MemoriamIn MemoriamIn MemoriamIn MemoriamIn MemoriamThis transcription and the accompanying

CDROM is a small tribute to the l ate Richard

Kieninger who devoted his life toward the

upliftment of mankind. Calling to the world

through the message in his book, The Ultimate

Frontier, he showed those who were looking for a

better way of life how to build and govern the

intentional communities of Stelle, Illinois and

Adelphi, Texas. The need for a more peaceful and

respectful way of life is evidenced by the fact that

both these towns are alive and well to this day.

Thank you!

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Good Versus Evil

A discussion with

Richard Kieninger

In Pursuit of The Ultimate Frontier

All Evil Is of Human OriginCJ: Hello, and welcome once again to, “In Pursuit of theUltimate Frontier.” I’m Charley Jones your moderator for thisweekly series of discussion programs. With me in the studio isRichard Kieninger, author of the book, The Ultimate Frontier,under his pen name, Eklal Kueshana. Richard, welcome to theprogram, once again.

RK: It’s good to be here again, Charley.

CJ: It is good to have you back again. Today’s topic concernsthe battle between good and evil. If you have attended church,what you hear about good and evil primarily has to do with you

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have to do with it. Very seldom do you hear anything concreteabout the actual conflict between good and evil itself. Richard,maybe you could focus today’s discussion for us by making afew notes on what actually constitutes evil.

RK: All evil has its origins in mankind. It does not come fromHigher Beings. There are no fallen Angels. Even the name Luciferis falsely equated with Satan. Satan and the Devil are merelyrepresentations which are symbolic which are not accurate notactual. They are not specific individuals, but rather sinfulnessand evil taken together.

CJ: So, it is a formal referencing that has been personifiedthrough conditional use?

RK: Yes. As many times happens, the traditions and thesymbols take on the aura of reality and it’s carried on fromgeneration to generation after that. The technique that is used byevil, which is external to an individual and, indeed, all of us arecapable of our own evil, stems from a mental control that evilpersons have by way of telepathic hypnosis. Some of thesementalists are discarnate human beings such as spirit guides whocontrol mediums to speak through them.

Telepathic Hypnosis Is the Tool of EvilCJ: Apparently, the term telepathic hypnosis infers that youcan be influenced in your thoughts. You can hear thoughts insideyour head that are not your own?

RK: Correct. It is almost impossible for any of us to knowwhere a thought, that goes through our consciousness, comes

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from. Some individuals are able to actually able to knocksomebody out telepathically or to command them to do somethingand they will do it. Those persons are incarnate, self-servinghypnotists, witches, sorcerers, and devil-cults of one sort oranother. The worst of all are the Tibetan cave communities ofthe Agarthi and the Shamballa. Worse, mainly because they arethe most powerful and most effective and have been for many,many centuries.

CJ: Can we assume, then, that anyone may be subject tosuggestion at a distance?

RK: Yes, anyone. But, now whether or not you do somethingabout it is something else again. What you dwell upon is entirelyup to you. You don’t have to concentrate on a thought or “buy it”just because it occurs to you or feel some compulsion to think anidea through to its end. If it seems perverse, stop thinking aboutit. Think of something else which is more positive.

Becoming Susceptible to Telepathic ThoughtsCJ: There certainly has been a number of movies on peoplebeing subjected to the influence of evil.

RK: You have to make yourself subject to it, and most peoplehave no idea of how evil operates. They really are kind of helplessin perceiving how to protect themselves against this enemy whenthey don’t understand how this enemy operates. No person canbe taken over by an evil influences if he or she maintains positive,loving thoughts and develops what many people have called aChrist Consciousness, which essentially is a lovingconsciousness. Protection comes from Higher Beings through

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protective prayers to Christ. One’s own fear or hatred or lust forpower over others; that makes one susceptible to inroads by netherentities. You have an obligation to not think evil thoughts, becausepeople step-by-step can convert you to from one mode ofthinking, subtly, over a decade to yet another. You don’t have togo very far to find people who used to believe more beautifullyabout things and more effectively who now find themselvesbecoming cynical, overly sophisticated. They are not evil, theyare just not contributing to good. The forces of evil are all humanbeings who, literally, seek the destruction of civilization andgoodness. They really like to see men terrorized by fear of death.If you figure that wherever there is tyranny, the forces of evilhave fomented it in some way. Wherever truth is twisted anddistorted, there, too, are the forces of evil developing cruel andhate-filled rulers. Religionists of that type seek destruction ofthe teachers of light and truth.

All founders of great religions taught peace and brotherly loveand non-acquisitiveness. But, the teachers who later taught inthe names of these founders, succeeded eventually in convincingbelievers to hate the believers of other great teachers: the Hindusslay Muslims in India, the Catholics slew the Huguenots inFrance., and Christians slew the Saracens in religious crusadesin the name of Christ. Everyone wants love and peace and beautyand security, and most of us can figure out that if we want thosethings we have to give it other people. The desire for power andfame, I think, is what leads men to destroy the country and lifeand home of other men. Very frequently, just to be recorded inhistory to be regarded as powerful men, inspire the gullible andinnocent to die for their causes. Think of Genghis Khan, Atilla,Hitler or Napoleon; they all sought to kill and conquer more

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than anybody else had before them. It has amounted to the bloodof countless tens of millions shed. And for what: the insanityinduced by evil forces.

CJ: What do you see as the common thread, Richard?

RK: I think most power-hungry persons, frequently out of fear,feel the only way they can be secure is to have control overeverybody else. Those power-hungry persons are sought by evil.Evil influence’s then introduce perversion upon perversion inthose persons, and helps them rise to positions of great influencein secular and religious areas where they are striving to get tothe top.

The Methods of EvilCJ: You reminded me of a discussion we had on an earlierprogram. We were talking about members of Agarthi helpingthe Nazi by sending representatives from Tibet to Berlin to invokethe intervention of evil powers on the side of the Germans. Whydon’t you detail the Agarthis again for our listeners.

RK: The Agarthi specialize in astral travel, which they callEckankar, and induce illusory scenarios telepathically in peoplewho have been persuaded to develop astral traveling on theirown. Those people are then misled by the Agarthi.

CJ: So, we are discussing telepathic hypnosis, again?

RK: Right. They can create a whole scenario, just like atelevision program in that person’s mind. You may think you areencountering real experiences, but actually you are the unwitting

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receiver of a play which they put on for you, which is done entirelymentally.

CJ: It is induced?

RK: Correct. The Agarthi also inspire false leadership in theworld, the lust for power, and the misuse of magical powers.The Agarthi work with the Shamballa, also, who specialize infostering illusions of materialism, and inducing perverse sexualcravings to people in the world in order to lead them to despair,to the end that then man is made to lose sight of his spiritualpossibilities and destiny. The Shamballa promote false religionsthrough mediums. For instance, the latest thing, so-called “SpaceBrothers,” coming from other galaxies to guide us into the properway of doing things. These are strictly the creation of both thespirit mentalists and the Tibetan cave communities. Any religionor philosophy which is delivered through spirit mediums is ipsofacto false and is designed to mislead. Just as the Shamballawork to pervert Christianity and the Mundane schools of theBrotherhoods through their agent Madame Blavatsky, they nowdevelop mediums with the strange new beliefs that surprisinglyget much publicity and heavy funding, and subsequently gainlarge followings of, essentially, frightened, bewildered, andfrustrated types who have the fanatic willingness to kill for theirgreater glory of their beliefs and their charismatic leaders.

CJ: I’m inclined to think of James Jones and Guyana.

RK: He was a piker. There are many others who have it inmind to kill millions.

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CJ: Ignorance of the fact that you can be suggested to, andwhat you hear inside your head is causing mischief the worldover.

RK: But, we do have the protection. All we have to do is askfor it. Higher Beings do not interfere with us in any way. We areentitled to experiment with whatever we need to experiment within order to learn. Man is a mistake-making creature. We can tryall kinds of things. And, we have to in order to grow to virtuefrom ignorance. Today, the populace is being subjected to allkinds of things through being perverted by negativeentertainment—all you have to do is look at some of the moviesthat are coming out today. There is a lot of commercial musicwhich literally creates anger and despair in its listeners. It isdesigned to do that, and is being given large audiences. The readyavailability of drugs; there is a reason behind that. It is not justmake somebody, it is to undermine people; to destroy civilization.There are people who have that in mind. All of this is leading tothe coming reign of the Antichrist who will be under the personaldomination of evil; of being elevated in power by certain personsfrom among a score or so of bankers and industrialists who aretrying to enslave mankind under a one-world government. Thisone-world government idea is really serving the Mentalistsscheme to prevent the conditions of freedom and self-directednessfor anyone’s spiritual growth.

You probably are aware of the movement of conservatism seenboth now in politics and fundamentalist religionism in Arab andJewish and Christian sects in the world. All of this is reallyengendered by the same kind of fear that ran rampant in Germanin the nineteen-thirties which resulted in wholesale oppression

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and murderousness against Germans by fellow Germans and thenagain against outsiders in World War II. The most conservativereligions will join and foster the fascistic attitudes that will raisethe Antichrist to power before he is recognized as who he is.Arrogance and bloodlust will be the hallmarks of the conservativereligions in America, Europe, and the Middle East as the end ofthe century approaches.

Obedience, submission, and terror will be the expected lot ofreligious believers just as it was in Nazi Germany. Nazism was asatanic religion, but it also had control over the government.Prophets and those who study cyclic trends in mankind’s behaviorhave come to remarkable agreement that this is what is gatheringin our near future. Fear, great insecurity, and economic turmoilwill produce this self-destructive madness in men. Whoeverdictates whoever shall be allowed to have food will commandthe allegiance of the desperately hungry. So, therefore, amanipulated economic depression and a monetary collapse areessential to gaining such total control of the masses here andabroad. And there are those who are going to do their best tomake them come about.

The Shamballa are working toward big things. They arefomenting for war; a war that they have designed whereeverybody loses. And, yet, men will allow themselves to be drawninto this horror. And, all this during the next two decades.

History of the IlluminatiCJ: Humans, in general, have traded away their freedomsmany times for the security they think that a leader can bring andthe order he will establish.

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RK: That is where the Shamballists hit us the hardest. It istheir design to create so much chaos that people will do almostanything to get involved in a “New Order” that will prevent thepossibility of war and economic collapse, in the future. TheShamballa have already managed to infiltrate and underminealmost every church and every metaphysical organization in theworld through their control over selected agents into pridefulstrove for leadership in their respective organizations, and nowhave it.

CJ: What kind of time-frame are we talking about? How longis this taking?

RK: For instance, through their control of the Illuminati, theShamballa managed to capture and use many Masonic lodgesaround the world for nefarious ends during the last two-hundredyears, by presenting schemes that sounded beautifully idealisticto those who were duped by them.

CJ: The Illuminati is an interesting term, Richard. I have heardit bantered about, Richard. I have heard it bantered about in suchways that you could become convinced that the Illuminati don’texist or they are everywhere at once. Can you illuminate mepossibly?

RK: It is hard to sort out there activities from all the mythsabout them. They tend to confuse the picture by playing bothsides of any issue in order to foster further confusion. However,I will try to give you a little background. There was a Bavarianfellow by the name of Adam Wieshaupt who, back in 1776organized a group of people with the idea of creating a one-

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world government. He noted that the Masonic Lodges of theworld had some really good concepts and decided to use theiridealism and capture their attention. He cleverly representedhimself as being a person who had information about the nextstep beyond the Masonic mysteries. There were quite a fewimportant people who were part of the Masonic Order. In theNew World, just about all the people who were in the ContinentalCongress and who signed the Declaration of Independence weremembers of the Masonic Order. Obviously, they were peoplewho were doers and people interested in promoting ideal conceptsin some ideal way.

There is plenty of documentation that indicated that Wieshauptwas put up to this idea by a family of bankers named Rothschild.The almost immediate success that he had in starting theIlluminati was due in large part to the fact that the Rothschildsknew a great many powerful people, most of whom they loanedmoney to. They were able to promote the beginning of thisIlluminati thing. There is a lot of mythology which has surroundedall of this. I am going to try and get to just the very basis of whatactually happened. This is historical and there is documentationfor it.

By the time the first president of the United States took office,which was some thirteen years after the Illuminati was firststarted, the Illuminati were already quite an influence in theUnited States. People like Washington were starting to warnagainst them, because they seemed to be part of the banking plotto take over the currencies of the world, which was indeed thecase. It became a campaign issue between John Adams andThomas Jefferson. Jefferson, at that time, felt that combining all

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of the Masonic lodges under one head to the end of getting rid ofmonarchies and establishing democracy all over was really great.It wasn’t until he himself later became president that he realizedit was not to the advantage to the United States.

About eighteen-twenties, I think it was, the Illuminati did manageto force through a law whereby a private central bank would beable to issue currency. President Andrew Jackson finally put anend to that in 1834. Again, about 1913, the idea of a central bankwas pressed upon Congress, and they finally voted for it. Everysince then, twelve private banks, which are known as the FederalReserve System, issue our currency and charge us interest forthe privilege of issuing their own monetized notes of indebtednessagainst a private banking system owned, in large part, byforeigners.

In any event, Rothschild’s purpose is to eventually create so muchunrest, economic difficulties, political turmoil, and even war uponwar that the people of the world would become disgusted withthe system and would be willing, for purposes of achievingsecurity, give up their sovereignty into a one-world government.That, indeed, was the general statement by Wieshaupt when hewrote some of the first concepts of how the Illuminati would beable to provide a world government.

The Bavarian government discovered, about ten or twelve yearsafter the Illuminati got started, just what they were up to, andexposed much of that information to various governments ofEurope. What the Illuminati secretly have in mind for all us inthe near future is to reduce everybody to a person who is assigneda job in this world and that is what they do for the rest of their

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lives. There are no democratic governments; only paternalisticpeople who run the whole thing.

However, there were many other professed elements to thisWieshaupt plan that were appealing to the Masons at that time.Although the Masons were not given the full inside informationof what was supposed to be done after getting rid of themonarchies. Incidentally, the Illuminati and the Masons werevery strongly instrumental in the overthrow of the FrenchMonarchy, and they are still pretty proud of that fact. TheIlluminati were interested in promoting the French Revolutioninto even further confusion and, at the same time, to do everythingpossible to undermine the French currency while all this wasgoing on. With the collapse of the currency, the bankers managedto buy up everything that was worthwhile for a centime on thefranc. The bankers gained control over the wealth of France.The Masons actually ended up being duped. The revolutionsounded idealistic to them, but when you are only working withhalf the information, you can be “sold down the river.”

The bankers next funded Napoleon to conquer all Europe forthem. While the bankers loaned the remaining monarchs ofEurope large funds secured by vast collateral, and at high interestcharges to defend themselves against the French Emperor’sinvasion. That way the bankers couldn’t lose. If Napoleon won,they assumed ownership of the collateral. If Napoleon lost, theycollected the principle plus interest.

History of the Shamballa and AgarthiCJ: Having seen the Illuminati “thumb” in most of thepolitical and economic strife that has come to pass in the past

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century or two, how did this thing get started? It is not justsomething that just “rolled out of the woods one day?”

RK: The Shamballa are behind it. You may have guessed that.They use their telepathic mental powers to induce visions ofpower and grandeur and wealth into the mind of an ambitiousperson.

CJ: Where did the Shamballa get started?

RK: The Shamballa and Agarthi have quite an interestinghistory. They go back even before the time when Atlantis sank.Several centuries before the destruction of Atlantis, people livingin South America, who were the forbearers of the Mayans, werebeing so hard-pressed by savage tribes of warlike people thatthey petitioned the Atlanteans to allow them to emigrate toAtlantis, to which request the Atlanteans agreed. Unfortunately,they brought along their priests. Their priests had been controllingthem through, essentially, the same sort of tricks your averagestage magician uses. The Mayans had not long been in Atlantisbefore they discovered that some Atlanteans had genuine mentalabilities that they had never encountered before. They managedto get some of their Mayan members to become students tobecome students of the Brotherhoods School and to learn someof these mental techniques, which they hoped they could be usedto manipulate their people mentally in addition to the trickery.

They were discovered in this plot by one Osiris, who happenedto be head of the government at that time, and who, incidentally,was a member of the Brotherhoods. Osiris rounded up the Mayanpriests and some of their more ardent followers and exiled to an

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island called Thule to the north where nobody was living. It wasshortly after Osiris sent them into exile that some of the Mayansmanaged to murder Osiris.

Ever since those days, the Shamballa and the Agarthi have reallybeen a thorn in the side of mankind. These cults of Thule wereaware that the Brotherhoods knew that Atlantis was about to besubmerged, so they evacuated Thule before it, too, sank. Somemillion people of Atlantis heeded the warning of the Brotherhoodand they were airlifted to central Asia. They called themselvesthe Aryans. That colony grew to a huge population grew to ahuge population over the next three-thousand years until the nextgreat geological cataclysm occurred. After that great cataclysmseventy-five hundred years ago some of the Aryans moved intoIndia as a great invasion, and some moved into the area that wepresently know as Persia, now called Iran, and some went tosouthern Russia to become the Scythians.

When the Mentalists had moved from Thule, they setup in Tibet,between India and the Aryan colony, very close to the newheadquarters that the Brotherhoods setup in Tibet. Their mainobject was to harass the Brotherhoods as much as possible. Theyfelt pretty safe in doing that, because they knew that the membersof the Brotherhood would not try to exterminate them, becauseof the karma involved in killing somebody.

Just about anybody who has aspired to spiritual greatness,anywhere in the world, at any time since then, has usually foundthemselves being tested by the evil influences of the Shamballaor the Agarthi.

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The Agarthi Work with the NaziCJ: How did the Nazi get the attention of these people?

RK: Professor Haushofer started Nazism from ideas takenfrom Blavatsky’s superman race concepts. Those conceptsBlavatsky wrote about came entirely from her Shamballa teacherswhen she was induced Tibet for their instruction. Haushofer wasaware of the general location of these cave communities andsent many expeditions to that area under the auspices of theGerman government until they managed to contact them. Somethirty Agarthis came to Berlin. Haushofer outlined some of thevery techniques that the Illuminati had come up with on how togain world control. There were international industrialists whofavored Hitler, because he was willing and able to promote theidea of controlling labor and the government so that therewouldn’t be any strikes. It was a system that would provide greatprofit. But, there was another force that was also involved inpromoting Hitler and that was the international bankers who hadmanaged to gain control of practically all of the currencies of theworld through central banks which they founded and controlledincluding in the United States.

Funding the Nazi PartyCJ: Are they the people who bankrolled Hitler? He gotenormous sums of money from somewhere.

RK: There was a fellow by the name of Warburg, from thiscountry [USA], who visited Hitler and arranged to deliverhundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to set him up inpower. So, Hitler had the influence of the Illuminati working onhim from different directions, but it really was the Shamballa

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who was really behind the whole thing. Hitler and Nazism werejust a dress rehearsal for the advent of the Antichrist, which is tooccur later in this century.

One of the reasons why bankers in the United States decided toback Hitler was because their plans for Russia had gone sour.Their plan was to reduce Russia to a state of total turmoil so thebankers could introduce their own agents. Lenin and Trotskywere taken into that country and took it over from the Czar. AfterLenin was assassinated, Trotsky fell ill and he was sick for aboutfour months. In that period of time, Stalin took over Russia, andTrotsky realized he had to leave the country. Many documentshad fallen into Stalin’s hands revealing the plan of the Trotskyitesto totally destroy Russia and reduce it to helplessness so it couldbe brought totally under the domination of foreign moneyinterests. Stalin, interestingly, was for Russia, where Trotskydefinitely was not. The banking people decided to back Hitlerbecause Hitler was the only person who they could see who hadenough power and incentive to destroy Stalin. The Trotskyiteshad failed to deliver Russia to the bankers, so we had a warwhere the world lost many tens of millions of people, and oddlyenough, the international bankers made a bundle off all of this.

When you see confusion in the streets, turmoil, economicdifficulties, there the international bankers are, funding one groupagainst the other. The whole object, of course, is to seed turmoiland confusion. The money is deflated and then we have adepression and then problems with the stock market, and yet allof this is manipulated by the people who control the world’spurse-strings.

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CJ: Richard, it sounds like you are saying that the world’seconomy, basically, is subservient to large international bankingorganizations that, in turn, are under the influence of theShamballa and the Agarthi.

RK: That is what I am saying. It really is so. But, they manageto keep both hands covered all the time. You never know who isdoing what or where. Nobody uses the term Illuminati any longer.

CJ: The main theme that seems to weave through these thingsis that all of the humans who were used as dupes by the influencesand forces of evil were used as dupes through their ownwillingness to be so used.

RK: Right. Any in many cases eagerness.

CJ: But, we come back to the very point that the Bible madetwo-thousand years ago: every human being is a battlefieldbetween good and evil.

RK: Right. It is strictly internal. If we don’t provideinstruments, here on the physical plane, who evil can use, thenthere can’t be any evil. It took a long time for them to get aroundto developing religions and tyrants and what have you that wouldsubvert people’s innate goodness and gentleness and sensitivityto life.

CJ: Richard, once again, a fascinating, stimulating conversionwith dimension not found in the history books or the philosophybooks of the twentieth century. I would like to thank you forbeing here with us once again.

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RK: Thank you very much.

CJ: And, to those of you in our listening audience, weappreciate your attention and we invite you to join us once againnext week “In Pursuit of the Ultimate Frontier.”

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20Copyright 2005

It is almost impossible for any of us to know where a thought,that goes through our consciousness, comes from. Someindividuals are able to actually able to knock somebody outtelepathically or to command them to do something and theywill do it. Those persons are incarnate, self-serving hypnotists,witches, sorcerers, and devil-cults of one sort or another. Theworst of all are the Tibetan cave communities of the Agarthiand the Shamballa. What you dwell upon is entirely up to you.You don’t have to concentrate on a thought or “buy it” justbecause it occurs to you or feel some compulsion to think anidea through to its end. If it seems perverse, stop thinking aboutit. Think of something else which is more positive.

No person can be taken over by an evil influences if he or shemaintains positive, loving thoughts. One’s own fear or hatredor lust for power over others; that makes one susceptible toinroads by nether entities. You have an obligation to not thinkevil thoughts. Wherever there is tyranny, the forces of evil havefomented it in some way. Wherever truth is twisted anddistorted, there, too, are the forces of evil developing crueland hate-filled rulers.

The desire for power and fame, I think, is what leads men todestroy the country and life and home of other men. I thinkmost power-hungry persons, frequently out of fear, feel theonly way they can be secure is to have control over everybodyelse. Evil influence’s then introduce perversion upon perversionin those persons, and helps them rise to positions of greatinfluence in secular and religious areas where they are strivingto get to the top.

All founders of great religions taught peace and brotherly loveand non-acquisitiveness. Everyone wants love and peace andbeauty and security, and most of us can figure out that if wewant those things we have to give it other people.