Canyons, Colours and Birds an Interview With Oliver Messiaen

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Canyons, Colours and Birds: An Interview with Oliver MessiaenAuthor(s): Olivier Messiaen and Harriet WattsSource: Tempo, New Series, No. 128 (Mar., 1979), pp. 2-8Published by: Cambridge University PressStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/946059

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CANYONS, COLOURS AND BIRDS:

An

Interview with

Oliver

Messiaen

On

5

August,

1978,

nine

milesfrom

Parawan,

Utah,

the

White

Cliffs,

also

known as

Lion's

Peak,

were renamed

in

honour

of

the French

composer

Olivier

Messiaen.

Mount

Messiaen-elevation

8,ooofeet;

vegetation:

aspen, juniper,

bristle-cone and

pondorosa

pine;

geological

features

spectacularly

eroded

promentaries

of

red and

white sandstone-

is now

a state monument

commemorating

Messiaen's visit to the

canyons

of

Southern

Utah.

This

visit in

1973 inspired

his latest

symphonic

work,

From

the

Canyons

to the

Stars.

The

dedication

of

the mountain culminated

a

threeyear

effort

to

honour Messiaen

in

Utah.

The

project

was undertaken

by

onefamily

with

frontier

roots in Parawan

and

family

members

scatteredfrom

New York to

Paris,

Mexico

City

and the

Antarctic,

all

involved with Mount

Messiaen.

When the

Edison

Whitakerfamily

heard

of

Messiaen's

canyon

symphony

and

his

description

of

Southern

Utah as

the most

mystical

landscape

he

had

ever

encountered,

they

wrote to

the

composer asking if

he

would

agree

to

Parawan's

naming something

in

his

honour. Messiaen

responded

with

delight

that

anything

in his

name

would

be

a

great

honour,

even

a

side street

or a nature

pathfor

bird

watchers.

Julie

Whitaker

in New York handled

negotiations

with

Messiaen's

impresario

and then

flew

to

Paris with the news that a mountain outside the town had beenmade available for renaming.

Ed and LeMar

Whitaker

convinced

their

neighbours

in

Parawan,

none

of

whom had

heard

of

Olivier Messiaen

before,

to

contribute time and

money

to a

dedication

ceremony

and

con-

cert.

Lyman

Whitaker

returned home

from

a

construction

project

in

the

Antarctic

to

cast a

bronze

plaque

and

build a

sandstone monumentat

thefoot

of

the

mountain.

Linda

Whitaker-

Verdu

in Mexico

City

arrangedfor

a

performance of

Messiaen's

Quartet

for

the

End

of

Time.

After

the clarinettist

broke a

finger

two weeks

before

the dedications

Lowell and

Naomi

Farr,

two well-known

Messiaen

interpreters

in

Salt Lake

City,

agreed

at

last

moment's notice

to

perform

the

cycle

Songs

from Heaven

and

Hell

in

Parawan.

The

photographer

J.

S.

Cartier contributed

photographs

of

Utah

for

an

exhibition

in the con-

cert hall. The governor of the State officially proclaimed 5 August 'Olivier Messiaen and

the

Beauty

of

Southern Utah

Day'.

Messiaen

himself,

not

scheduled to arrive in America

until

October,

telegraphed

his

appreciation

to

Parawan.

When Messiaen

began

the

tour

celebrating

his

7oth

birthday,

hisfirst

stop

was

Boston.

I was able to

give

him

a

first

hand

account

of

his

Parawan

birthday

party

as well as

photographs

and rocks

from

his

mountain.

In

this

interview,

originally

conducted

for

Decade

magazine,

he

discusses the role

of

the

Utah

canyons,

colours

and

birds

in

his

@?

979

by

Decade



CANYONS,

COLOURS AND BIRDS

symphony

From

the

Canyons

to the

Stars.

This

symphony

was the work chosen

and

conducted

by

Pierre

Boulezfor

the

actual

observance

of

Messiaen's

birthday

in

Paris

Io

December,

I978.

Olivier Messiaen is

eager

to visit

his

mountain

in

Utah

as

soon

as

possible.

As he

explains

in the interview, 'I now have the

obligation

to

present

myself

before

those three

cliffs;

they

are there

waitingfor

me.'

Harriet Watts

H.W.:

What

madeyou

choose southern Utah

as the source

of inspirationforyour

last

symphony?

O.M.:

Well,

this is

what

happened.

My

impresario

had

introduced

me

to

Miss

Alice

Tully

from New York and Miss

Tully

wanted to

commission

a work

from me for the

American

Bicentennial.

I

had

no

time and

I

said that

I

would

be

unable

to

accept

her

offer,

but

then

she invited

me

to

dinner.

In

the course of

the

meal,

she

told

me

how

much

she loved animals and that she

travelled to

India for the sole

purpose

of

shaking

the

paw

of

a

lion.

Well,

at

first

I

laughed

at

this

story,

but then

afterwards

I

recalled the account of the 'Chevalier

au Lion' of

Chretien

de

Troyes,

a

French

romance of

the

Middle

Ages,

and

after

having laugh-

ed,

I

cried.

I said

to

myself,

that

woman

is

amazing,

to

go

all

the

way

to India

just

to

see

a

lion

and

shake its

paw,

that's

marvelous,

and

I

accepted

the

commission.

It was

a

commission for

a work in

honour

of

the United

States.

I

thought

it

over a long time, I looked at my geography books, at all the books I have at home,

over

7,000,

and

into

a

special

series

of

books

I

own,

Les Marveilles du

Monde.

This

series has

everything,

the

Sphinx

of

Egypt,

extraordinary

things,

and

I

said

to

myself,

the

grandest

and

the most beautiful marvels of

the

world

must be

the

canyons

of

Utah.

So,

I'll

have to

got

to

Utah.

At

that

time

I

was in

the

process

of

recording

in

Washington

with

Mr.

Dorati

my

work

La

Transfiguration,

and

I

called

up my

impresario,

Mr.

Breslin,

and

I

said

to

him,

'I

want to

go

to

Bryce

Canyon'.

'What's

that?' he

exclaimed,

and

I

explained,

'Bryce

Canyon

is

the

must beautiful

thing

in

the

United

States.' 'Oh?'

'So',

I

said,

'You'll

have

to

find

a

way

for me

to

get

there'.

He

was

horrified:

'But it's

so

far

away'.

I

said

'Well, it's either that or the Islands of Hawaii'. 'Oh, no, that's even further',

he

said.

So,

the

matter was

settled,

we were

to

go

to

Bryce Canyon.

These

impresarios

are

remarkable;

he was

surprised,

but in

less

than

an

hour,

I

had the tickets

to

Salt

Lake

City

and

a

reservation

for a

rental car to

drive

to

Bryce

Canyon.

We

arrived,

the

car

picked

us

up,

and

off we

went

to

the

Canyon.

At the

entrance

to

Bryce

Canyon

there is

a

little

inn

where one

could

eat,

sleep,

wash

up-very

small,

but

actually very

clean and there

was

no

problem

staying

there.

So we remained

for

eight days.

I

had chosen the

spring

season,

for,

as

you

know,

I'm an

ornithologist

and

one can transcribe the

songs

of

birds

only

in the

spring,

because

it

is the

season

of

courtship, the period in which the males sing in order to assert their territorial

claims,

to

seduce

the

female,

and

to

greet

the break of

day.

Well,

there were

birds

in

Bryce Canyon,

because it was

springtime;

and,

in

addition,

because it was

spring,

there

were

no

tourists.

We

were all

alone,

it was

marvelous,

an

absolute

solitude.

Apparently

one

can traverse

the

canyon

on a

horse

or a

mule,

but

I

went

on

foot because it's much

nicer

that

way.

One can

stop,

take

notes,

make

photos,

transcribe bird

songs,

and there's all

the time

in the world

just

to

appreciate

the

landscape.

3



I

knew

that

Bryce

Canyon

was

beautiful,

because

I

had

read

all

about

it,

I

looked

at

pictures

of

it,

but it was even

more beautiful than

in the

photographs.

It's

quite amazing;

first,

it's

so

big,

immense,

it's

a

landscape

of

nothing

but

cliffs

and boulders in fantastic

shapes.

There are

castles,

towers,

dungeons,

there

are

turrets,

bridges,

towers, windows,

and

then,

even

more

beautiful,

there

are

the

colours.

Everything

is

red,

all

sorts of

reds:

red-violet,

a

red-orange,

rose,

dark

red

carmine,

scarlet

red,

all

possible

varieties

of

red,

an

extraordinary

beauty.

I observed

all

of

this

very

carefully,

I

wrote

it

all

down,

notation

after

notation.

My

wife took

at

least

200

photographs,

but

I was

writing

it all

down,

not

only

the

songs

of

birds,

but the

colours

of

the

cliffs,

the

new shoots of

vegetation,

the

smell

of

sage

(in

French,

that's

'armoise',

a

plant

with a

very pungent

smell,

a bit

like

thyme

or

pepper, really strong,

a

smell

that

permeates

the

whole

landscape).

And then there were

the birds of

Bryce Canyon,

birds not

to

be

found

anywhere

else but

there,

for

example,

the

western

tanager,

a little bird

which

is

red and

yellow

with

a

lovely

voice,

very

flute-like which

sings

a

combina-

tion

of three

notes

(tiot,

tiot,

tiot).

Then there's

a

very

large

bird which

is

called

a

blue

grouse,

which

goes

'wuh,

wuh,

wuh',

a

strange,

deep

sound which

really

fascinated

me.

And

then there was a bird

that was beautiful

to

look

at

but

with

an awful

voice,

that's

just

what

interested

me,

it's the

clark

nutcracker,

black

and

grey,

with

an

incredible

voice,

what

a

racket If

you get

three

or

four

of

them

together,

it's

like a whole

orchestra,

a

powerful

sound.

So,

I

took

advantage

of

all these birds and put them into the music, along with the colours.

Colours

are

very important

to me

because

I

have

a

gift-it's

not

my

fault,

it's

just

how

I

am-whenever

1

hear

music,

or even

if I read

music,

I see

colours.

They correspond

to the

sounds,

rapid

colours which

turn, mix,

combine and

move

with the

sounds. Like

the

sounds

they

are

high,

low,

quick,

long, strong,

weak,

etc.

The colours do

just

what the sounds

do.

They

are

always changing,

but

they

are

marvelous

and

they

reproduce

themselves each

time one

repeats

the

same

sound

complex.

It's a

theory

that's

a

bit

complicated,

but

I'll

explain

how

it

works.

Take

a

note,

any

note,

and

there

is

a

corresponding

colour.

If

you

change

the

note,

even

by

a

semitone,

it's

no

longer

the

same

colour.

With the

twelve semitones the colour never remains the same. But once you reach the

octave,

you

have the

original

colour

again.

It

recommences

with

the

high

oc-

taves

and

with the

low

octaves.

In

the

higher

octaves,

it

becomes

progressively

more

diluted

with

white,

and

in

the

lower

octaves,

it is mixed with black

so

that

it's darker.

H.W.:

Areyoufamiliar

with the work

of

Vassily

Kandinsky,

with

his

theory

of

colour

in

Concerning

the

Spiritual

in the Work

of

Art?

O.M.:

Oh,

yes,

I

know

Kandinsky

very

well,

he's a

great

painter. My

two

favourite

painters

are

Kandinsky

and

Robert

Delauney. Delauney

was

concerned

with

what

one calls in

painting

'simultaneous

contrasts',

which is

to

say,

if

you

paint

a

green,

for

example,

there is a red

which

appears

behind

it;

if

you

paint

a

red,

a

green

appears

behind

it.

These are

complementary

colours which

take

place

in

the

eye

even

if

they

don't exist

in

actual

reality.

H.W.:

Well,

Kandinsky xpressedyour

wn

theories,

but

in

reverse.

The soul

responds

to

the

work

of

art

in

terms

of

vibrations,

according

to

Kandinsky,

and

the

vibration

droduced

by

a colour

can

result

in a

musical

sound.

TEMPO



CANYONS,

COLOURS

AND BIRDS

O.M.:

That's

wonderful;

just

the reverse

of what

I've

said,

I'm

pleased

to

hear

that

he has

a

similar

theory.

Actually

there are

two

other men

one

could

mention

in

this context.

There is

Ciurlionis,

he was

a

Lithuanian

painter,

the

greatest

genius

of Lithuania.

He was a

painter

whose

paintings

have musical

titles,

he

composed symphonies

in his

paintings,

they're

called

Scherzo,

Allegro,

another

painting

is called

Finale.

They

are

paintings

of

music.

He

was

a

composer

of

music

as

well,

but,

above

all,

he was

a

painter.

And

he

put

music

into

his

paintings.

When

I

was

young,

I

also knew

a Swiss

painter

called

Blanc-Gatti.

He

had

an actual

disorder,

he was

synethesist,

which

means that he had

a

derangement

of the

optic

nerve

and whenever

he heard

sounds,

he

saw

colours.

And

whenever

he looked

at

objects

around

him,

these

objects

were surrounded

by superimposed

circles

of

colour.

Blanc-Gatti

was able to survive with

this

disorder,

but

through-

out his life,

he saw more

and more coloured circles.

I

have one of his

paintings

in

my

house,

a

painting

of an

organ.

You

can

see the

organpipes,

the

rose

window

in

a

church,

but all around

the

pipes-I

suppose

that the

organist

must have

been

playing-there

are coloured

circles, red, blue,

etc.,

all

spinning.

It's

a

strange

phenomenon,

but

it's an actual

disease.

I

don't

have

this

physical

disorder,

but

I

do

perceive

the colours

intellectually.

Actually,

there

are

two

experiments

you

can

conduct

that

are related.

If

you play

a

very

low

note

on

the

piano

and

wait

for

a

moment,

you'll

hear the

octave,

the

fifth,

the

third,

the

seventh,

and

since

I

have

a

highly

trained

ear,

I

hear the

ninth,

the

augmented

fourth,

etc.

I

hear

a whole

series

of

harmonics.

And,

the

second

experiment,

which resembles

the first: if you look at a colour against a white background, for example, a red

paper against

a

white

paper,

at

the line of

demarcation

between the red and

the

white,

if

you

watch

it a

long

time

with

great

concentration,

you'll

perceive

the

line

of

demarcation

as

much,

much

redder than

the

rest,

and

afterwards,

like

electrical

emissions,

you'll

see

marvelous

greens

that

leap

out

all

around

the

red.

H.W.:

So

that

is

like the

harmonics

f

sound?

O.M.:

Yes,

it's

a colour

harmonic.

So,

if

you

have

a

note

a

fifth above

a

yellow

note, you'll see a violet; if you have a fifth at blue, you'll see an orange. I've

often

carried

out these

experiments

with

my

students

at

the

conservatory;

they

all

thought

I

was

crazy,

but that's

of no

importance.

I do

it

anyway,

because

I'm

convinced

of

the

results.

Bryce

Canyon

was

of

special

interest

to

me.

That's because it had

all

those

wonderful

colours,

and

I

wanted

to

put

them into

music.

So,

the

piece

I

composed

about

Bryce Canyon

is red

and

orange,

the colour of

the

cliffs.

I

proceeded

on

through

the

canyons.

Next

I

was at

Cedar

Breaks.

The name

is

very

difficult

to

translate

into

French.

Cedar

is

the

word for

'cedres',

but there

aren't

any

cedars

there.

Breaks, well,

that's

like a

'trou',

a

hole,

I

don't

know

how

one

should

say

that in French,

perhaps

'l'abime des cedres'

(the

abyss

of

cedars).

Anyway,

it's

a

very

impressive spot,

an

immense

amphitheatre

with an

enormous

slash

in

the

earth,

very, very, deep,

it is

frightening,

and the

feeling

I

had

there

was

religious.

I

composed

a

piece

entitled,

'Cedar Breaks is

the Gift of

Fear'.

Fear

in

a

religious

sense,

not

the

sort of

fear one

has of

the

police,

but a

fear

which

is

a

reverence

before

something

sacred. One

senses

a

divine

presence,

something

which

is

sacred,

one

is

subjugated

to

this

feeling,

the

gift

of

fear.

I

felt that

Cedar

Breaks

gave

one

that sense

of

fear.

S



TEMPO

After Cedar

Breaks,

I

continued

on to Zion Park.

The

cliffs

there are

also

very

beautiful,

but less

red,

less

fantastic.

The

atmosphere

is more

somber,

serene,

more

sacred,

even more

celestial.

I

believe that it

is

indeed

celestial,

because the

Mormons,

who discovered this

place,

called it Zion Park. Zion in

the

Bible is

the

synonym

of

Jerusalem,

not of the

earthly

Jerusalem,

but

of

the

celestial

city

itself,

thus,

the

gift

of

heaven.

So,

I

did like the Mormons and

com-

posed

a

piece

which

is

called 'Zion

Park

and

the

Celestial

City.'

My

work con-

cluded

with

paradise,

the

piece composed

for Zion Park.

At

Zion,

it was still

springtime,

the

season of love

and

song

for the birds.

In

Zion

there

were the most

beautiful

birds

of

all.

First,

and

perhaps

most

important,

there

was the cassis finch

with

a

lovely,

lovely

voice,

flute-like

with a

charming

timbre,

a

marvelous

virtuoso.

The

bird itself

is

red.

Then there

was the

grey

vireo which

is

very imperative,

it's

the

drillmaster

of birds

(co

mo

co mo

)

and

then

a wonderful

singer,

the

western meadowlark.

It has a

yellow

breast

with

a

black

hood.

Its

song

is

incredible,

very

limpid,

with

many

harmonics.

Each

note carries five or six

harmonics;

it's

one of the

greatest

songbirds

of

the

United

States.

There were numerous

specimens

of all three

types,

the

cassis

finch,

the

grey

vireo,

the western

meadowlark

in Zion Park.

After

seeing

and

taking

notes

on all

this,

I

composed my

work

on the

canyons.

I'd

seen the

canyons

from two

different

perspectives.

I'd seen

them from

on

high,

with

the

vertigo

of the

abyss,

that's

important,

one

sees

vast

black holes

against

the

red of the

cliffs.

Afterwards

my

wife and

I

went

down the

trails,

very

carefully,

never

leav-

ing the paths and we made our way to the depths, all the way to the bottom.

From the

depths

of

the

abyss,

we could

see

the

path circling

very

high

above

us,

and that

is

what

inspired

the title

of

my

work,

From he

Canyons

o

the

Stars,

one

progresses

from the

deepest

bowels

of

the

earth

and

ascends towards

the stars.

From the titles

of all

the

pieces

in the

composition,

you'll

see that

they're

suggestive

of

Utah.

The first

piece

is called

'The

Desert',

a

place

where

one

is

all

alone,

and

after

that,

the

second

movement

is called

'The

Orioles',

which

refers to the orioles of

the United

States.

The next

piece

is 'That which is Written

in the

Stars'. Written in the stars are those

terrible

words,

Mene

Tekel

Upharsin

which mean

weigh,

count,

divide.

The stars

are

weighed,

counted,

and divided.

Afterwards there is a solo bird piece called White-Browed Robin. Then there is

the

piece

to

'Cedar Breaks and

the

Gift

of

Fear',

or the

reverence for

the sacred.

Next there

is a

piece

for

solo

horn which

is

called

'Interstellar

Appeal',

one

calls

for

help

in

the

midst of the

stars,

to the

void

between

the

stars,

and then there

is

'Bryce Canyon

and

the

Red-Orange

Cliffs',

that's

the

principal piece,

the

chant

of

victory,

and

then

there

is another

piece

to the

stars

called

'The

Resurrected'.

It is situated

beyond

death

and is

for those

who

have

been resurrected.

It

is

the

song

of

the

star

Aldebaran.

It is not

the

resurrected

who

sing,

but the

stars

themselves,

because it seems

that stars

do

sing.

One

can

record

vibrations

from

stars,

each

star has its

own

vibration

and

produces

a

note.

You know, there are musicians who have chosen their own star; the

German

composer

Karlheinz

Stockhausen

has chosen

the

star

Sirius,

he

prefers

Sirius

above all

others because

it

is the

most

brilliant.

For

myself,

I've

chosen

Aldebaran,

because

it

has a

nice

name,

a

really

charming

name.

It's an Arabic

name

which

means

the

one

who

follows,

Aldebaran,

the follower.

I

chose

that

particular

star

because

it has

a

great velocity,

a

great

light,

and because

it

follows

the

Pleiades.

I

found that

to be

an admirable

function

of

the follower.

Afterwards,

there

is

an

extensive

piano

solo

which

is

called

'The

Polyglot

6



CANYONS,

COLOURS

AND

BIRDS

Mocking

bird',

that famous

mocking

bird

which one finds

all over

the

United

States,

even at

Washington,

D.C.

and

especially

throughout

California.

I've

heard

it in

Pasedena,

in

Santa

Barbara,

in

San

Francisco,

all

over

California.

Then

there

is a

piece

to a bird called 'The Wood Thrush'. After

that,

in remembrance

of

my

phone

call to

my

impresario

and

his

exclamation

'Bryce

Canyon,

it's so

far

away'

and

my reply,

'if

it's

not

Bryce

Canyon,

it will

be the

islands of

Hawaii',

recalling

that reference

to

Hawaii,

I've included

a

piece

on the

birds of

Hawaii.

It

is

called

'Omao, Leiothrix,

Elepuio,

Shamn.'

These

are

all

birds

that

one finds

in

Hawaii.

And the four names

together

constitute

a

verse

line,

an

Alexandrine,

'Omao,

Leiothrix,

Elepuio,

Sham'.

Then

finally

one ends in

paradise,

like

the

Mormons who believed

that

they

had discovered

the celestial

Jerusalem

at Zion

Park.

The last

piece

is

called 'Zion Park

and the Celestial

City'.

H.W.: Did the

landscapes

n SouthernUtah also

influence

he

tempos

n the various

pieces

of

your

work?

You've

often

spoken

of

tempo

as

an

individual

and

subjectivephen-

omenon,for example,

ime

as

experienced

y

the

stars,

time

as

experienced

y

man,

time

as

experienced

y

cells.

Didyou

have a

particular

sense

of

terrestial

ime,

of

geological

time

in

Utah?

O.M.:

Yes,

I

think one

senses

it

most

strongly

in

Zion

Park,

one sees the

beds

of

strata

which

correspond

to

the

geological

periods.

But

since I'm not

a

geologist,

I

can't

really

answer

you

with

exactitude,

but in

fact,

one

does

see traces of

those

different

epochs

at

Bryce

Canyon,

at

Cedar

Breaks,

but even

more in

Zion

Park,

especially

at one mountain called the Great White Throne.

Actually, you've

touched

on

a

point

which isn't

my

speciality,

but

geology

does

interest me

a

lot.

I

studied

it

a bit

in

my

youth,

along

with

astronomy.

I

spent

my

childhood in

the

Dauphine,

a

mountainous

landscape,

and

maybe

that's one

reason I

was so

attracted

to

the

cliffs

of

Bryce Canyon.

H.W.:

You've

often

spoken of

the

famous

glacier

in

the

Dauphine,

the

Glacier

of

Meije,

and

the

inspirationyou

have

drawnfrom

its white

light.

The

light inspiringyou

in

BryceCanyon

must

have

been

of quite

a

different

nature.

O.M.: Indeed. The light isn't at all the same, especially since at Bryce one

sees it in

two

completely

different

fashions.

One

sees it

from

on

high

and

from

below,

from

the

depths

and

from

above

at

the

opening

of

the

abyss.

What

is

really special

at

Bryce Canyon

is the sunrise and

the

sunset.

They're

beautiful

everywhere,

of

course,

with their varieties

of

rose

and

red,

but

in

Bryce

Canyon

the

phenomenon

is intensified

by

the

colour

of

the

cliffs,

because

the

cliffs,

which

are

already

red,

become

even redder

with

the reflection

of

the

violets and

oranges

of the

sunrise

and

also,

of the

sunset.

But

the

two

are

different.

The

nuances,

the intensities

are

not the

same.

There are

even

peaks

in

Bryce

which refer

to

these

specific lightings:

for

example,

Sunrise

Point.

I'd like to add one last word

concerning

the orchestration of this work,

which

is

long,

it

lasts

an hour

and

40

minutes,

to

be

exact.

It

includes a

piano

solo,

very important,

of

course.

There are

pieces

which it

plays

completely

alone.

A horn solo-that's

something

new-the

horn

does

extraordinary

things,

trills

on a

closed

note,

suppressed

notes,

all sorts of bizarre

things.

There's

a

brass

choir,

a

trio of

woodwinds and

brass,

an

instrument which

is

a

cross

between a

xylophone

and

a

marimba,

a

solo

glockenspiel,

like in

the

Magic

Flute,

bells,

gongs,

a tam

tam,

and

two

very

unusual

instruments,

the

neolophone,

or a

wind

7



TEMPO

machine,

and a

geophone,

or

an earth

machine.

They

make

extraordinary

noises;

the

geophone

has a

beautiful

timbre;

it's

an

immense

drum,

flat,

with

a

hollow

above

and

a hollow below

the drum

head.

One

rotates

the

drum

very slowly

from

left

to

right

and

right

to left and

it

produces

a

noise one hears

by

the

ocean

when

a

wave is

receeding

and the

pebbles

and sand

are drawn

along

behind it-cshshsh

sh sh cshshsh

sh sh-that's the

sound it

makes.

Mixed with

horn

trills,

for

ex-

ample,

it

produces

an

extraordinary

effect,

one does not

really

know what one

is

hearing,

the effect

is

very

disorienting

but

the

timbre is

beautiful.

Well,

I

think

I've said a

lot

about

this

piece,

but one last

sentimental note.

This

work

was

first

performed,

of

course,

at

New

York in the

Alice

Tully

Hall,

because

it

was commissioned

by

Miss

Tully.

The

premiere

was under the

direc-

tion

of

Mr.

Frederick

Waldmann,

with his

orchestra,

the Musica

Aeterna.

It was

in that lovely small hall, the Alice Tully Hall, decorated with just the right

colours,

orange

and red.

Later

it was

performed

in

France,

at the Theatre

de

la

Ville

with Marius

Constant,

and this

year

it will

be

performed

again

on

precisely

the

tenth of

December,

that's

my birthday,

and since

I was

born

at

midnight,

it

will

finish

at

the moment of

my

birth.

It will

be a

major

performance,

con-

ducted

by

Pierre

Boulez.

H.W.:

One last

questionforyou,

MonsieurMessiaen.

How

doyoufeel

about

having

your

own mountainnow n

Utah,

Mount

Messiaen?

OM.:

Ah,

it's

just

incredible

and

very touching.

When

I

told

my

impresario

about

it,

he was amazed. When I told

my publisher

M. Leduc in Paris about

it,

he

was

astounded,

too.

He couldn't

imagine

that

there would

be

a

mountain

anywhere

with

my

name;

at

first

he

laughed,

but

then

he

almost cried.

And

we

plan

to

go

back there

soon.

It's

a

great

excuse to

see Utah

again,

and,

in

any

case,

it

seems to me

that

I

now have the

obligation

to

present

myself

before

those

three

cliffs.

They're

there

waiting

for

me.

8

Documents

Canyons, Colours and Birds an Interview With Oliver Messiaen