8 JAN-MAR 2008 engine professional

FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFTS

& OILS

FEATURE

engine professional JAN-MAR 2008 9

AERA is providing you withthis information just in caseyou have not heard aboutproblems with flat tappetcamshaft failures caused bygasoline engine oils.

The problem started yearsago when oil companiesreduced the anti-scuffingadditive packages in gasolineengine oils. When reduced, weall started to have flat tappetcamshaft and lifter failures.Everyone was quick to blamecamshaft or lifter hardness,however that was not the caseat all.

Flat tappet camshaft andlifter failures have increasedover the last ten years and ithas been really bad for thelast three years. As AERAmembers reported flat tappetcamshaft and lifter failures,we kept track of them anddiscovered two issues to becommon denominators: • 75% of the failures were, inpart, due to a reduction ofanti-scuffing additive packagesin the gasoline engine oils; • The other 25% of failureswere caused by improperbreak-in procedures such asnot pre-oiling the enginebefore start-up and letting theengine idle.

Although 75% failedwhen using late model engineoil for break-in, looking back,these failures coincided withEPA mandated for reductionof Zinc additive over the pastten years in gasoline engineoils for cleaner air and longerlife of the catalytic converters.

Remember, we all have tobreathe the same air. This isno problem in late modelengines using roller lifters andcamshafts because they do notneed the anti-scuffing additivepackages to protect the slidingaction of flat tappet camshaftand lifter surfaces.

Special Note — During enginedisassembly, check camshaftside of lifter bore hole forwear (egg-shaping) of thelifter bore hole in the block. If it has worn egg-shaped, fixit by bushing the lifter bore orreplace block. This egg-shaping will allow the lifterfoot or bottom which contactsthe camshaft lobe to move offcenter line, changing the lifterto lobe contact angle. Now,the lifter acts as a scraperremoving the oil film betweenit and the cam lobe causingmetal to metal contact andcam and lifter failure.

American PetroleumInstitute (API) Announces New Service Category forDiesel Engines: CJ-4On October 15, 2006, theAmerican Petroleum Institute(API) began certifying dieseloils against a new ServiceCategory, API CJ-4. API CJ-4describes oils for use in high-speed four-stroke cycle dieselengines designed to meet 2007model year on-highwayexhaust emission standards aswell as for previous modelyears. These oils are especially

Gasolineengine oilswith reducedanti-scuffing additive packages are found to be the main cause of flat tappetcamshaft failures

BY DAVE HAGEN, MIKE CARUSO,and STEVE FOX

10 JAN-MAR 2008 engine professional

effective at sustaining emis-sion control system durabilitywhere particulate filters andother advanced after-treat-ment systems are used. Moreinformation on API CJ-4,including frequently askedquestions, can be found atwww.apicj-4.org.

Engine Oil Licensing andCertification System (EOLCS)API’s Engine Oil Licensingand Certification System(EOLCS) is a voluntarylicensing and certificationprogram that authorizesengine oil marketers whomeet specified requirements touse the API Engine OilQuality Marks — the APIService Symbol “Donut” andCertification Mark“Starburst.” This program isa cooperative effort betweenthe oil industry and vehicleand engine manufacturersFord, General Motors, andDaimlerChrysler; the JapanAutomobile ManufacturersAssociation; and the EngineManufacturers Association.Performance requirements,test methods, and limits arecooperatively established byvehicle and enginemanufacturers, technicalsocieties like the Society ofAutomotive Engineers (SAE)and the American Society forTesting and Materials (ASTM)and industry associations likethe American ChemistryCouncil and API. Oils meetingthese requirements arerecommended by vehiclemanufacturers.

Aftermarket Audit ProgramAPI’s Engine Oil program isbacked by an ongoingmonitoring and enforcement

program to ensure licenseesadhere to industry technicalspecifications. Additionally,the program ensures that theAPI-registered symbols areproperly displayed and conveyaccurate information toconsumers. Currently, morethan 500 marketers in morethan 50 countries are usingthe symbols on more than8,000 products. You can viewa complete list of our licenseesand their products by visitingour Licensee Directory.

API-licensed marketersmay display two types ofmarks: the API service symbol“donut” and the APIcertification mark “starburst.”Each mark conveysinformation that can be usedby the consumer.

The API Service SymbolThe API service symbol“donut” is divided into threeparts. The top half describesthe oil’s performance level.The center identifies the oil’s

viscosity. The bottom half tells whether the oil hasdemonstrated energy-conserving properties in astandard test in comparison toa reference oil.

Performance LevelsThe top of the donut showsthe oil’s performance level forgasoline and/or diesel engines.The letter “S” followed byanother letter (for example,SM) refers to oil suitable forgasoline engines. The letter“C” followed by anotherletter and/or number (forexample, CI-4) refers to oilsuitable for diesel engines.These letters officially standfor “Service” and“Commercial.” The currentAPI performance categoriesthat can appear in the toppart of the Donut are listed inthe API Motor Oil Guide.

SAE Viscosity GradeThe center of the Donutshows the oil’s SAE viscosity

grade. Viscosity is a measureof oil’s flow characteristics, orthickness, at certaintemperatures.

The low-temperatureviscosity (the first number, 5Win 5W-30 oil) indicates howquickly an engine will crankin winter and how well the oilwill flow to lubricate criticalengine parts at lowtemperatures. The lower thenumber the more easily theengine will start in coldweather.

The high-temperatureviscosity (the second number,30 in a 5W-30 oil) providesthickness, or body, for goodlubrication at operatingtemperatures.

Multi-grade oil (forexample, SAE 5W-30)provides good flow capabilityfor cold weather but stillretains thickness for high-temperature lubrication.

Single grade oil (a singlenumber in the center of thedonut) is recommended for

Look for the API Certification Marks(pictured right) every time you buyengine oil. Ask for API-licensed oilwhenever you have your oilchanged. (API graphics used withpermission.)

FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFTS & OILSBY DAVE HAGEN, MIKE CARUSO, and STEVE FOX

Note: API intentionally omitted “SI” and “SK” from the sequence of categories.

Which oil is right for you?

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12 JAN-MAR 2008 engine professional

use under a much narrowerset of temperature conditionsthan multi-grade oils.

Operators should refer totheir owner’s manuals toselect the proper viscosity oilfor the ambient temperatureand operating conditions atwhich the equipment will beused.

Diesel Energy Conservingand CI-4 PLUS DesignationsThe bottom of the donut tellswhether the oil has energyconserving properties whencompared with a reference oilin an engine test or if an oilmeets CI-4 PLUSrequirements.

Oils labeled as “EnergyConserving” have passed thetest that measures oil’s abilityto conserve energy.Widespread use of engine oilswith this designation shouldresult in an overall saving offuel in the vehicle fleet as awhole, but a particular vehicleoperator may not experience afuel savings as a result ofusing these oils.

Used in conjunction withthe CI-4 category, the “CI-4PLUS” designation identifiesoils formulated to provide ahigher level of protectionagainst soot-related viscosityincrease and viscosity loss dueto shear in diesel engines.

The API Certification MarkThe API Certification Mark“Starburst” is designed toidentify engine oilsrecommended for a specificapplication (such as gasolineservice). Oil may be licensedto display the Starburst only ifthe oil satisfies the mostcurrent requirements of theInternational LubricantStandardization and ApprovalCommittee (ILSAC) minimumperformance standard for thisapplication (currently GF-4for passenger cars). Manyautomobile manufacturersrecommend oils that carry theAPI Certification Mark.

Off-Road OilsStraight weight racing oilsthese applications containhigher concentrations of anti-wear agents such as in theCastrol GP series or thePennzoil with Z-7. If you’renot sure whether your oil hasthe proper anti-wear agents allyou have to do is smell it. If ithas an aroma that faintlyresembles gear oil then itprobably has a higherconcentration of wearinhibitors.

Shell Diesel OilThe API CI-4 licensed formulaof ROTELLA T SyntheticSAE 5W-40 has beenmanufactured for some timenow. Shell stands behind theperformance of ROTELLA TSynthetic SAE 5W-40 in allapplications where the APICI-4 service rating oil isrecommended and even withthe bottles reflecting the olderCH-4 rating. Diesel engine oilis commercial-rated andservice-rated oils fall underdifferent standards, oilsapproved for diesel pre-2007and commercial use typicallycontain more of the desirablehigh-pressure, anti-wearadditives. Since manycommercial-grade oils haveolder API CI-1 or API CI-4category ratings, oilcompanies claim it is safe foruse in gasoline-fueled engines,unless catalytic converterfailure is a concern.Commercial-grade diesel oil isalso available in synthetic,conventional, or a blend, andmay fit a wide range of non-catalytic converters.

Racing Engine OilsMany higher-viscosity oils arerestricted to off-road-use onlywhich generally means the oilis for use without catalyticconverters. This indicates ahigher level of Zinc with-ineach product which couldhave an effect on the exhaustcatalytic converters. (Zincplates itself to the inside of thecatalytic converter not causing

blockage or back pressure butrendering the Cat useless)now we have an EPAEmissions problem. Check theoil manufacturer’s web site forthe latest Material Safety DataSheet (MSDS) from yourpreferred oil’s manufacturer.Most MSDS information isavailable on the oilmanufacturer’s website. Oryou can call them on thephone asking about thespecific product and itscategory ratings. We find thatmany machinists and enginebuilders with old hot rod cars,trucks and boats will useracing engine oil to protectthe flat tappet camshafts.Often, that oil is not in theengine very long, as thoseengines are disassembledfrequently.

Vintage Cars, Trucks,Boats and TractorsUsing a flat-tappet camshaftin your engine protection maybe only as good as the oilsyou use. Flat tappet camshaftswill need the correct oilformulation for protection,but oils have been changing inthe last few years as some ofyou are just finding out. Thebest suggestion we can offer isto follow your camshaftmanufacturer or enginebuilder’s recommendations forbreak-in for a long useful live.We suggest paying closeattention to several factorswith regard to oils.

It is important to choose aviscosity range that will workwith your older, highcompression engine and itsbigger clearances. Forget the0W-30 and 5W-20 used intoday’s engines, today’sengines run tightclearances...they arespecifically designed to workwith these new, thinner oils.Older engines used heavierweight oils designed for thetime you used straight 10 or20 for winter, 30, 40 weightsfor summer. Then the 10W-30, 10W-40, 20W-40 and20W-50 came along and

worked fine. If you’re runninga flat tappet mechanicalcamshaft today in 2008, youhave a big problem becauseyou are limited on which oilsto use. Most of oils do nothave the shear strength or theanti-scuffing additive packagesnecessary to keep thesecamshaft and lifters properlylubricated. If you use late typemotor oil in your engine witha mechanical flat tappetcamshaft you possibly couldexperience prematurecamshaft failure! Mechanicalcamshaft engines require oilscontaining higherconcentrations of anti-wearadditives phosphorous andzinc (1200-1300ppm VS lessthan l000 for conventionaloils). See AERA TB 2333R.

Why oil pressure is low at a hot idle after rebuildingThis is a good time tomention measuring engine oilclearance when rebuilding alate model engines. AERAreceives calls asking why theoil pressure is too low after alate model or any engine isrebuilt.

AERA Tech Support willfirst ask, “What is themeasured oil clearance on theengine bearings mains, rods,camshaft and balance shaft?”

The answer will be, “Wellit’s a .010-.010 crank andbearings.”

In other words, they nevermeasured it. So, it’s nowonder they have problemswith having low oil pressureat a hot idle!

Engine oil systems are aleak system by design.Knowing this fact, an enginewith hot oil of 167-195°F has(within specifications) idle oilpressure because of tightclearances.

But as an engine fallsbelow the specification theidle oil pressure is lowered.

Don’t be fooled bymeasuring the crankshaft andthen trying to use the listedsize in the catalog bearing

FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFTS & OILSBY DAVE HAGEN, MIKE CARUSO, and STEVE FOX

engine professional JAN-MAR 2008 13

shell thickness. Measure,measure, measure!

Engine bearing catalogslist the maximum wallthickness of the shell. But itdoes not mean that all shellswill measure the listed size inthe catalog. Most of the timethey are thinner.

Samples of Break-in LubesUse liberal amounts of anybrand when installing newcamshaft and lifters. • COMP Cams® Camshaft

Break-In Oil Additive, Part #159

• Crane Moly Paste, Part #99002-1

• Crane Super Lube,Part #99003-1 oil additive

• GM E.O.S. AssemblyLubricant oil additive

• Hughes Extreme PressureOil Additive Moly,Part #3690 (ok for cats)

• Lunati Assembly Lube,Part #99010

• Melling and Melling SelectPerformance

• Mell-Lube Camshaft LubeMelling Oil Additive,Part #M-10012

Break-in ProceduresSince proper camshaft break-in is such a critical step inensuring its longevity, mostcamshaft manufacturers aresuggesting physical steps orspecific products for break-in.But some have recently begunadvocating certain oilsapproved for commercial-fleetvehicles and/or separate oiladditives that are currentlyavailable from mail-orderretailers, local parts stores, orGM dealers.

Each aftermarket camshaftcompany will have a slightlydifferent break-in procedurebut they all want you to have

long life of their flat tappetcamshaft and lifters. Below isa sampling of camshaftsbreak-in procedures.

Tech Bulletin:Flat Tappet CamshaftsRecent changes in oil arelikely the cause of prematurecamshaft failure; here’s whatyou can do to protect yourengine! Pre-mature flat tappetcamshaft failure increasedover the last few years andnot with just one brand ortype of camshaft. In almostevery case, the hardness or thetaper of the cam lobe issuspected, yet most of thetime that is not the problem.This growing trend is due tofactors that are unrelated tocamshaft manufacture orquality. Changes in today’s oilproducts because of catalyticconverters and “advanced”internal engine design (roller

lifters and cams) havecontributed to a harsherenvironment for the flattappet camshaft and morepotential for failure duringbreak-in. See AERA TB2333R

Adequate LubricationAnother major factor in theincrease of flat tappetcamshaft failure is yourfavorite brand of engine oil.Simply put, today’s engine oilis just not the same as it usedto be, thanks to evertightening environmentalregulations. The EPA hasdone a great job in reducingemissions and the effects ofsome of the ingredients foundin traditional oils; howeverthese changes to the oil haveonly made life tougher onyour camshaft. The lubricityof the oil and specifically thereduction of important

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FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFTS & OILSBY DAVE HAGEN, MIKE CARUSO, and STEVE FOX

additives such as zinc andmanganese, which help break-in and overall camshaft life,have been drastically reduced.In terms of oil selection, werecommend Shell Rotella T oilfor the break-in procedure.Most often used in dieselengine applications, thishigher lubricity oil works ingasoline engines as well.Today’s engines are great atproviding oil to every enginecomponent except one —your camshaft. Windage trays,limiting oil’s ability to reachthe top of the engine,modification of connectingrod side clearances for lesssplash oil and special oil pansfurther complicate both thebreak-in process and camshaftoperation in general. But thereare several things you can doto correct these problems.COMP Cams® offers flattappet lifters with oiling holesin the cam face surface, whichwill increase oil flow to thelifter-camshaft lobe contactpoint. Furthermore, using alifter bore grooving tool willenhance oiling throughout thecamshaft and valve train. Aswe all know by now, better oilflow means better initialbreak-in and increasedcamshaft durability.

Flat Tappet Lifter Selection –Choose Carefully!In addition to these enginemodifications, make certainyou purchase the highestquality lifters. Most lifterslook alike on the outside, butyou don’t really know wherethey were produced.“Imported” flat tappets oftentimes use inferior liftercastings and DO NOT deliverthe durability of high-quality,US-built lifters. Lifters that arebuilt to the strictest diameterand radius tolerances aredesigned to fit precisely withintheir lifter bores must be used.This ensures the lifter rotatesproperly and decreases thepotential for failure.Additionally, make sure thelifters you're using have the

correct oil band depth andlocation to properly regulatethe internal oiling of yourengine.

How to Increase Flat Tappet CamshaftDurability

1. Double check yourcamshaft and lifter set-upprior to the break-in process,and use an ample amount ofthe supplied assembly lube onall lobes, distributor gear andthe face of bottom of eachlifter.

2. Use high-lubricity engineoil, such as Shell Rotella T oil,to help during the break-inprocess, and use a CamshaftBreak-In Oil such as COMPCams® Additive (Part #159).

3. Flat tappet lifters cam faceoiling provisions alsosupplement a fresh oilingpath.

4. Use of a lifter boregrooving tool providesanother path to increase oilingto the cam lobe.

5. Use high-quality lifters (no brown-bagging it here) to make certain you arereceiving the best quality lifteryou can buy.

Comments from Crane CamsCamshaft failure is rarelycaused by the camshaft itself.The details controlled duringmanufacture pertaining tocamshaft lobe wear are lobetaper, lobe hardness andsurface finish. Of all thedamaged cams we havechecked over the years, morethan 99.99 percent have beenmanufactured correctly. Somepeople have the misconceptionthat it is common for a castiron flat tappet cam tooccasionally have a soft lobeor lobes. We have yet to see acast iron flat tappet cam thathad a soft lobe. When the castcore is made at the castingfoundry, all the lobes areflame hardened. That process

hardens all the lobes to adepth below the barrel of thecore. That depth of hardnessallows the finish cam grinderto finish grind the cam lobeswith Rockwell hardness above50Rc. The generally acceptedhardness on a finished castcam should be between 48Rcto 58Rc. All of our finishedcams that we have checkedare always above 50Rchardness on the lobes. Manyoutside factors, or acombination of factors, cancause cam failures. We will listsome of the factors we havedetermined that may causecamshaft failure.

Do not use synthetic oilduring the break-in period. Itis not recommended to useany type of oil restrictors tothe lifter galley, or usewindage trays, baffles, or plugany oil return holes in the val-ley. Oil has a two-fold pur-pose, not only to lubricate,but to draw the heat awayfrom whatever it comes incontact with. The cam needsoil splash from the crankcase,and oil run-back from the topof the engine to help draw theheat away. Without this oilflow, all the heat generated atthe cam is transferred to thelifter, which can contribute toits early demise.

Correct Break-in ProceduresAfter the correct break-inlubricant is applied to the camand lifters fill the crankcasewith fresh non-synthetic oil.Prime the oil system with apriming tool and an electricdrill so that all oil passagesand the oil filter are full of oil.Pre-set the ignition timing andprime the fuel system. Fill thecooling system. Start theengine. The engine shouldstart quickly and run between1500 and 3000 rpm.

If the engine will not start,don’t continue to crank forlong periods, as that is verydetrimental to the life of thecam. Check for the cause andcorrect. The engine should

quickly start and be runbetween 1500 to 3000 rpm.Vary the rpm up and down inthis rpm range during the first15 to 20 minutes, (do not runthe engine at a steady rpm).During this break-in time,verify that the pushrods arerotating, as this will show thatthe lifters are also rotating. Ifthe lifters don’t rotate, thecam lobe and lifter will fail.Sometimes you may need tohelp spin the pushrod to startthe rotation process duringthis break-in procedure. SeeAERA TB1935.

It is important toremember that lifter rotationis created by a taper groundon the cam lobe and theconvex shape of the face ofthe flat tappet lifter. Also insome cases, the lobe is slightlyoffset from the center of thelifter bore in the block. If thelinear spacing of the lifterbores in the block is not tothe correct factoryspecifications, or the angle ofthe lifter bore is not 90degrees to the centerline of thecam, the lifter may not rotate.Even if the engine you’rerebuilding had 100,000 mileson it and the cam youremoved had no badly wornlobes, this still doesn’t meanthat your block is madecorrectly. It just means thatthe break in procedure causedeverything to work correctly.Be careful to watch thepushrods during break in toverify lifter rotation. Don’tassume everything will workcorrectly the second time.

Always use new lifters ona new flat tappet cam. If youare removing a good used flattappet cam and lifters and areplanning to use them again inthe same (or another) engine,you must keep the lifters inorder as to what lobe of thecam they were on. The lifterbreaks-in to the specific lobeit is mated with and it can’t bechanged. If the used lifters getmixed up, you should discardthem and install a new set oflifters and break the cam in

engine professional JAN-MAR 2008 15

again as you would on a newcam and lifters. You can usenew lifters on a good usedcam, but never try to use usedlifters on a new cam. Rollertappet cams don’t require anybreak-in. You can use rollerlifters over again on a newcam if they are in goodcondition. There will be, ofcourse, no lifter or pushrodrotation with the use of aroller tappet cam.

Spring PressuresNormal recommended springseat pressure for most mildstreet-type flat tappet cams isbetween 85 to 105 lbs. Moreradical street and raceapplications may use valvespring seat pressure between105 to 130 lbs. For streethydraulic roller cams, seatpressure should range from105 to 140 lb. Spring seatpressure for mechanical street

roller cams should not exceed150 lbs.

Racing roller cams withhigh lift and high valve springpressure are notrecommended for street use.Oil splash used to cool thecamshaft at low RPM andlubrication for the roller liftersis not sufficient. High springpressure causes the heatcreated at the cam to betransferred to the roller wheel,resulting in its early failure.Any springs that may be usedmust be assembled to themanufacturer’s recommendedheight. Never install springswithout verifying the correctassembled height andpressures for the camshaftbeing installed.

Increased spring pressurefrom a spring change and/orincreased valve lift can hinderlifter rotation during cambreak-in. We have found that

decreasing spring pressureduring the break-in periodwill be a great help. This canbe accomplished by using ashorter ratio rocker arm tolower the valve lift; and/ orremoving the inner spring,during the cam break-in time,if dual springs are being used.

Mechanical InterferenceThere are many factors thatcan cause mechanicalinterference.

Spring Coil BindThis is when all of the coils ofthe spring (outside, inside orflat damper) contact eachother before the full lift of thevalve. We recommend that thespring you are using becapable of traveling at least.060” more than the valve liftof the cam from its assembledheight.

Retainer to Seal Valve orGuide Boss InterferenceYou need at least .060”clearance between the bottomof the retainer and the seal orthe top of the valve guidewhen the valve is at full lift.

Valve to Piston Interference:Increased valve lift, valvethickness and diameter, (checkvalve to valve relief diameterin pistons), re-surfacing theblock and/or cylinder head(s)will reduce P/V clearance.Minimum P/V clearance+.080” intake and +.100”exhaust.

Rocker Arm Slot to RockerStud InterferenceAs you increase valve lift, thestud mounted rocker armswings farther on its axis.Therefore the slot in thebottom of the rocker arm mayrun out of travel, and the end

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16 JAN-MAR 2008 engine professional

of the slot will contact thestud and stop the movementof the rocker arm. The slot inthe rocker arm must be ableto travel at least .060” morethan the full lift of the valve.Some engine families, likesmall block Chevrolet, havestamped steel rocker armsavailable in long and extralong slot versions for thispurpose.

Distributor Gear WearThe main cause for distributorgear wear is the use of highvolume or high-pressure oilpumps. We don’t recommendthe use of these types of oilpumps. If you do run thesetypes of oil pumps, you canexpect short life of the camand distributor gears,especially for low speedrunning, in street typeapplications. If you must runthese types of oil pumps, youcan increase the life of the

gears by adding more oil flowover the gear area to help cooloff the point of contact.

Note: Distributors that haveend play adjustment (up anddown movement ofdistributor shaft and gear),Maintain a maximum of.010” end play, to helpprevent premature wear.

Camshaft End PlaySome engines have a thrustplate to control the forwardand backward movement ofthe cam. The recommendedend play on these types ofengines is between .003” to.008”. Many factors maycause this end play to bechanged. When installing anew cam, timing gears, orthrust plates verify end playafter the cam bolts aretorqued to factory specs. Ifthe end play is excessive, itwill cause the cam to move

back in the block, causing theside of the lobe to contact anadjacent lifter.

Note: When removing a usedcam that may be worn, youmay have difficulty turning orremoving it. This may notmean that the cam is crackedor fractured. The heatgenerated at the cam duringthe failure of the cam lobe,and/or lifter, will distort thecam and cause it not to bestraight any more. n

We’re interested in your thoughtsIf you found this informationuseful or if you have othertopics of interest for themagazine, please let us knowby calling the AERA techteam directly, toll-free 888-324-2372.

The AERA tech team, from left to right:Steve Fox has over 16 yearsexperience in the engine buildingindustry with eight of those years spentworking in the machine shop. Steve isan ASE-certified Master Machinist, aswell as a longtime member of the dragracing circuit. Dave Hagen, our SeniorTechnician, has over 32 years ofexperience in our industry. An ASE-certified Master Machinist, Davespecialized in cylinder head work andcomplete engine assembly for the first17 years of his career. Mike Carusobrings over 35 years of rebuilding andhigh-performance experience to AERA.An ASE-certified Master Machinist,Mike came to us from FEL-PRO’s high-performance R&D and tech line, wherehe worked for 11 years.

FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFTS & OILSBY DAVE HAGEN, MIKE CARUSO, and STEVE FOX

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