House of Commons Defence Committee - parliament.uk · (Senior Committee Assistant), Christine McGrane (Committee Assistant) ... General Sir Timothy Granville-Chapman GBE KCB ADC Gen,

House of Commons

Defence Committee

Formal Minutes

Session 2007–08

The Defence Committee

The Defence Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Ministry of Defence and its associated public bodies.

Current membership

Rt Hon James Arbuthnot MP (Conservative, North East Hampshire) (Chairman) Mr David S Borrow MP (Labour, South Ribble) Mr David Crausby MP (Labour, Bolton North East) Linda Gilroy MP (Labour, Plymouth Sutton) Mr David Hamilton MP (Labour, Midlothian) Mr Mike Hancock MP (Liberal Democrat, Portsmouth South) Mr Dai Havard MP (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) Mr Adam Holloway MP (Conservative, Gravesham) Mr Bernard Jenkin MP (Conservative, North Essex) Mr Brian Jenkins MP (Labour, Tamworth) Mr Kevan Jones MP (Labour, Durham North) Robert Key MP (Conservative, Salisbury) John Smith MP (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan) Richard Younger-Ross MP (Liberal Democrat, Teignbridge) The following Members were also Members of the Committee during the Parliament: Mr Colin Breed MP (Liberal Democrat, South East Cornwall) Derek Conway MP (Conservative, Old Bexley and Sidcup) Mr Mark Lancaster MP (Conservative, North East Milton Keynes) Willie Rennie MP (Liberal Democrat, Dunfermline and West Fife) Mr Desmond Swayne MP (Conservative, New Forest West)

Powers

The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk.

Publications

The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at: www.parliament.uk/defcom.

Committee staff

The current staff of the Committee are Mike Hennessy (Clerk), Richard Ward (Second Clerk), Ian Rogers (Audit Adviser), Lis McCracken (Inquiry Manager), Richard Dawson (Senior Committee Assistant), Christine McGrane (Committee Assistant) and Stewart McIlvenna (Committee Support Assistant).

Contacts

All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Defence Committee, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 5745; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. Media inquiries should be addressed to Alex Paterson on 020 7219 1589.

Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 1

Proceedings of the Committee

Wednesday 9 November 2007

Mr James Arbuthnot visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Frimley Park, Hampshire in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.

TUESDAY 13 NOVEMBER 2007

Members present:

Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair

Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard

Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key

1. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07

The Committee considered this matter.

Ordered, That the written evidence relating to the Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07 submitted by the National Audit Office be reported to the House for publication on the internet.

Ordered, That the National Audit Office be authorised to publish its written evidence, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 135.

2. Visit to Defence Equipment and Support

Resolved, That the Committee visit Defence Equipment and Support at Abbey Wood, Bristol, in connection with its inquiry into Defence Equipment.

3. Travel in a representative capacity

Resolved, That Mr David Crausby have leave to visit Naples to attend the conference of EU Defence Committee Chairmen on 16-17 December in a representative capacity.

4. Use of laptop computers by witnesses

Resolved, That witnesses be permitted to refer to laptop computers or other small electronic devices unless the Committee orders otherwise.


The Committee considered its proceedings.

2 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08


Mr Bill Jeffrey CB, Permanent Under-Secretary of State, and Mr Trevor Woolley CB, Finance Director, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 20 November at 10.00 a.m.

Thursday 15 November 2007

Mr Adam Holloway attended the seminar on Naval Defence, Paris in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 9 October 2007.

Friday16 November 2007

Mr Mike Hancock visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Portsmouth, Hampshire in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.


MORNING SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie John Smith

1. The future of NATO and European defence


2. Winter Supplementary Estimate

Ordered, That the written evidence relating to the Winter Supplementary Estimate submitted by the Ministry of Defence be reported to the House for publication on the internet.

3. Government Response: The work of Defence Estates




General Sir Jack Deverell KCB OBE, Lieutenant-General Sir Rob Fry KCB CBE, Mr Daniel Keohane and Colonel Christopher Langton OBE gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till today at 4.30 p.m.


AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie

1. The work of Defence Estates


Draft Special Report (The work of Defence Estates: Government Response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2006-07), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2006-07, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the First Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.

2. UK land operations in Iraq 2007


Draft Report (UK land operations in Iraq 2007), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 98 read and agreed to.

Annexes [List of Abbreviations and Visit Note] and Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.



Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.

Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 24 July and 9 October.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 21 November at 9.00 a.m.

WEDNESDAY 21 NOVEMBER 2007

Members present:


Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Willie Rennie

1. The UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty


2. Medical care for the Armed Forces

Ordered, That the following written evidence relating to Medical care for the Armed Forces be reported to the House for publication on the internet:

K P Mizen; and

Terry Lewis.

3. The UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty

Mr Ian Godden, Secretary, Defence Industries Council, and Chief Executive Officer, Society of British Aerospace Companies, Mr David Hayes, Chairman, Export Group for Aerospace and Defence, and Director of Export Controls, Dr Jerry McGinn, US Aerospace Industries Association, Dr Sandy Wilson, President and Managing Director, General Dynamics UK, and Ms Alison Wood, Group Strategic Development Director, BAE Systems, gave oral evidence.

Rt Hon Baroness Taylor of Bolton, Minister for Defence Equipment and Support, Mr Stephen French, Director General Acquisition Policy, Mr Tony Pawson, Head of Defence Export Services, and Ms Gloria Craig, Director General International Security Policy, Ministry of Defence, and Mr Paul Lincoln, Head of Defence and Security Policy, Cabinet Office, gave oral evidence.



Friday 23 November 2007

Mr Kevan Jones visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Northallerton, North Yorkshire, and Linda Gilroy visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Derriford, Plymouth, Devon in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.


MORNING SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie John Smith



Derek Twigg, a Member of this House, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Lieutenant General Robert Baxter CBE, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Health), Lieutenant General Louis Lillywhite MBE QHS, Surgeon-General, Ministry of Defence, Ben Bradshaw, a Member of this House, Minister of State for Health Services, Professor Louis Appleby, Mental Health Clinical Director, and Andrew Cash, Co-Chair, DH/MoD Partnership Board, Department of Health, gave oral evidence.



AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Robert Key Willie Rennie

1. Winter Supplementary Estimate: Cost of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan


Draft Report (Winter Supplementary Estimate: Cost of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Annexes (Summary and List of Abbreviations) agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Second Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered be published on 20 November.

2. Petition

The Committee considered the petition to the House from residents of Castle Point and others concerning members of HM Armed Forces serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 28 November at 10.00 a.m.


Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Bernard Jenkin




Ordered, That written evidence submitted by the Public and Commercial Services Union be reported to the House for publication on the internet.

2. Defence Equipment

Ordered, That written evidence submitted by the British Limbless Ex-servicemen’s Association be reported to the House for publication on the internet.



Mr Bill Jeffrey CB, Permanent Under-Secretary of State, and Mr Trevor Woolley CB, Finance Director, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 4 December at 9.30 a.m.

TUESDAY 4 DECEMBER 2007

MORNING SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard Mr Bernard Jenkin


1. The Fulton Report


Resolved, That the Committee now take evidence in private.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup GCB AFC ADC RAF, Chief of the Defence Staff, General Sir Timothy Granville-Chapman GBE KCB ADC Gen, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band KCB ADC, First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, and Mr Nick Gurr, Director of Communications Planning, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.



AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins

Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key Willie Rennie John Smith

1. UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty


Draft Report (UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Annexes (Summary and List of Abbreviations) agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Third Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report.

Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for placing in the Library and Parliamentary Archives.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 11 December at 10.00 a.m.


Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie

1. The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned

Draft Report (The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Report of the Committee to the House.





Resolved, That the Chairman write to the Secretary of State for Defence with the Committee’s classified conclusions and recommendations.


Ordered, That the following written evidence relating to Medical care for the Armed Forces be reported to the House for publication on the internet:

Ministry of Defence;

Haslar Task Force;

Scottish Executive;


Martin Deahl ; and

Caroline Richards.


Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:

Geoffrey Van Orden;

Christopher Mayer;

Joanna Kaminska;

David Galbreath;

BASIC;

CND;

Clive Archer; and

Romanian Embassy.

3. Overseas Visits

Resolved, That the Committee visit Bahrain and Iraq in connection with its inquiries into UK land operations in Iraq, and the Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.


Resolved, That the Committee visit Pakistan and Afghanistan in connection with its inquiry into UK operations in Afghanistan, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 8 January at 4.00 p.m.

Sunday 16 – Monday 17 December 2007

Mr James Arbuthnot and Mr David Crausby visited Naples, Italy in accordance with the Committee decisions of 9 October and 13 November2007 .

TUESDAY 8 JANUARY 2008

Members present:



Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie



Rt Hon Des Browne MP, Secretary of State for Defence, and Mr Andrew Mathewson, Director, Policy on International Organisations, Ministry of Defence, and Hon Hugh Powell, Head, Security Policy Group, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 15 January at 10.00 a.m.


Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith


1. The Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07

Draft Report (The Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 13 November.


Ordered, That the written evidence submitted by the Ministry of Defence be reported to the House for publication on the internet.



Daniel Keohane; and

Michael Codner.

4. UK Defence: commitments and resources


Council for National Parks;


Prospect;

James Elder; and

Intellect.




Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith

1. The work of the Committee 2007

Draft Report (The work of the Committee 2007), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Annexes agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Report of the Committee to the House.


2. Future Programme

The Committee considered its future programme.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into issues of recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces, with an emphasis on the recruitment and retention of ethnic minority personnel .

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance).

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the MoD rôle in homeland security and UK resilience.

3. Petition

The Committee considered the petition to the House from residents of Castle Point and others concerning members of HM Armed Forces serving in Iraq and Afghanistan; and the Government’s Observations thereon.

4. Shrivenham Seminar

Resolved, That the Committee visit Shrivenham in February 2008 for a seminar on the future work of the Committee.




Members present:


Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Brian JenkinsRobert Key John Smith Mr Richard Younger-Ross

1. Declaration of interests

Mr Richard Younger-Ross declared his interests, in accordance with the Resolution of the House of 13 July 1992. For details of the declaration, see Annex attached.

2. Defence Equipment 2008



Ordered, That the Chairman and Clerk visit Ljubljana in connection with the meeting of Chairmen of Defence Committees of the EU Member States on 2-3 March 2008.


Ordered, That CND be authorised to publish their memorandum, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 135.

5. Authority to travel

Resolved, That the Committee on Arms Export Controls visit Kiev in March 2008 in connection with its inquiry into Strategic Export Controls.

6. Homeland Security and Resilience

Resolved, That the Committee request written evidence from the Ministry of Defence on homeland security and resilience.

7. Oral evidence: Defence Equipment 2008

General Sir Kevin O’Donoghue KCB CBE, Chief of Defence Materiel, David Gould CB, Chief Operating Officer, Defence Equipment & Support, and Lieutenant-General Dick Applegate OBE, Chief of Materiel (Land), Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 5 February at 10.00 a.m.

ANNEX

DECLARATION OF INTERESTS


YOUNGER-ROSS, Richard (Teignbridge)

31 March-6 April 2006, to Egypt, on fact-finding visit to meet parliamentarians and NGOs, at the invitation and expense of the Egyptian Government. (Registered 26 March 2007);

21-25 August 2006, to Israel and the Palestinian Territories, on fact-finding visit to meet parliamentarians and ministers, at the invitation and expense of the Universal Peace Federation, Interreligious and International Federation of World Peace, London. (Registered 26 March 2007);

29 September-6 October 2007, to Dharamsala, North India, to meet the Tibetan Parliament in exile, including a meeting with the Dalai Lama. The costs of the visit were paid for by the Tibet Society. (Registered 7 November 2007).

TUESDAY 5 FEBRUARY 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith


Draft Report (Medical care for the Armed Forces), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Annexes (List of Abbreviations and Report on the Committee web-forum) and Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 22 May, 24 July, 9 October, 21 and 28 November and 11 December.




Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.


Tuesday 12 February 2008

Mr Kevan Jones visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, James Cook University Hospital in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.


Members present:


Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins

Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith Richard Younger-Ross



Draft Special Report (UK land operations in Iraq 2007: Government Response to the First Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the First Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Second Special Report of the Committee to the House.









Members present:



Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross



Draft Special Report (UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty: Government Response to the Third Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Third Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Third Special Report of the Committee to the House.


2. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 4 March at 10.00 a.m.

TUESDAY 4 MARCH 2008

MORNING SITTING

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones


Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway

Robert KeyJohn Smith

1. Operational costs in Afghanistan and Iraq: Spring Supplementary Estimates 2007–08

Draft Report (Operational costs in Afghanistan and Iraq: Spring Supplementary Estimates 2007–08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Report of the Committee to the House.







AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:



Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith


Draft Report (The future of NATO and European defence), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Paragraph 6 read.


Amendment proposed, in line 14, after “Alliance” to insert “becoming more important than NATO in the minds of many EU members of NATO”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

The Committee divided.

Ayes, 3 Noes, 6

Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow

Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby

Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy

Mr David Hamilton

Mr Brian Jenkins

John Smith

Paragraph agreed to.


Paragraph 36 read.

Amendment proposed, in line 6, at the end, to add “and the rising importance of EU defence”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)



Ayes, 3 Noes, 6




Mr David Hamilton

Mr Brian Jenkins

John Smith




Paragraph 167 read.

Amendment proposed, in line 6, after “capabilities.” to insert “We are concerned that some European nations regard pooling of resources as a way to avoid spending more money on defence.”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)



Ayes, 4 Noes, 6




Robert Key Mr David Hamilton

Mr Brian Jenkins

John Smith



A paragraph—(Mr Bernard Jenkin)—brought up and read, as follows:

Under the Lisbon Treaty the European Defence Agency (EDA) is given treaty status and is granted wide powers. Under Article 28A (3) the EDA “shall identify operational requirements” and “shall participate in defining a European capabilities and armaments policy”. Under Article 28D (1b &c) the EDA is tasked to “promote harmonisation of operational needs and adoption of effective, compatible procurement methods” and “to propose multilateral projects”. The UK has no veto either over the decisions defining the Agency’s statute (Article 28D (2)), or over membership of the EDA, or over decisions of the steering board (Article 9 (2) of the EDA Statute CJA 2004/551/CFSP), all of which are to be taken by QMV. Article 28D (2) also obligates the Agency to “carry out its tasks in liaison with the Commission where necessary”. This, together with “leading role in the Agency’s structure” granted to the High Representative who is also a member of the Commission under the EDA Statute [CJA 2004/551/CFSP, preamble (9)], gives the Commission influence over the work of the EDA.

Ordered, That the paragraph be read a second time.

Question put, That the paragraph be added to the Report.



Ayes, 3 Noes, 7




Mr David Hamilton

Mr Brian Jenkins

Robert Key

John Smith

Paragraph disagreed to.


Paragraph 244 read.

Amendment proposed, in lines 22 to 23, to leave out from “The Defence” to “products” and insert “Recognising that the EDA has a very limited budget at present, we would be concerned if the lack of a national veto in EDA led to pressure for “developing defence capabilities” and “European armaments cooperation” which excluded interoperability with the United States, so that, for example, the Defence Procurement Code became a vehicle for European protectionism by excluding American products.”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)



Ayes, 3 Noes, 7




Mr David Hamilton

Mr Brian Jenkins

Robert Key

John Smith




Paragraph 266 read.

Amendment proposed, in line 9, after “relations” to insert “by affirming that key decisions about future EU operations will be taken and implemented through the Berlin Plus arrangements rather than unilaterally by the EU”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)



Ayes, 4 Noes, 6





Mr Brian Jenkins

John Smith



Paragraphs—(Mr Bernard Jenkin)—brought up and read, as follows:

For the foreign secretary to claim that Permanent Structured Cooperation is “focused solely on developing EU Member State [military] capability”, he must be satisfied that the PSC does not constitute any kind of obligation on the UK. The Protocol states:

“member states participating in permanent structured cooperation shall undertake to.... (b) bring their defence apparatus into line with each other as far as possible, particularly by harmonising the identification of their military needs… [and] (c) take concrete measures to enhance the availability, interoperability, flexibility and deployability of their forces, in particular by identifying common objectives regarding the commitment of forces, including possibly reviewing their national decision-making procedures.”

While decisions within PSC are explicitly by unanimity only, a Member State which “no longer fulfils the criteria or is no longer able to meet the commitments” laid out in the Protocol, members of the PSC may decide by QMV to suspend it [Article 28E (4)]. This may place great pressure on Member States participating in QMV to acquiesce to a majority view rather than risk suspension or expulsion.


The foreign secretary also accepted that “forces could be deployed under PSC” [Hansard, 20 February 2008 col 381]. If military deployments were agreed within PSC from which a member state had been excluded, this would amount to their loss of the veto over key aspects of EU military policy. Moreover, even if expelled, non-members of PSC remain under obligation to “support the Union’s external and security policy actively and unreservedly in a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity and shall comply with the Union’s action in this area… They shall refrain from any action which is contrary to the interests of the Union or likely to impair its effectiveness as a cohesive force in international relations.” [Article 11 (3) and (4)] Again, this would place great pressure on Member States participating in PSC to acquiesce to a majority view rather than risk being placed in such a situation.

Along with the incorporation of the European Defence Agency into the EU structure, governed by QMV and with its formal relationship with the EU Commission, the powers given to the establishment of PSC in the Lisbon Treaty provide for flexibility and dynamism for decision making in EU defence policy which is wholly lacking in NATO. We would be concerned if this led to further duplication of NATO functions or threatened the primacy of NATO in UK defence policy. However, we welcome the Government’s assertion that neither the EDA nor the PSC will undermine NATO.

Ordered, That the paragraphs be read a second time.

Question put, That the paragraphs be added to the Report.


Ayes, 3 Noes, 7




Mr David Hamilton

Mr Brian Jenkins

Robert Key

John Smith

Paragraphs disagreed to.

Paragraph 274 read and agreed to.

Paragraph 275 read.

Amendment proposed, in line 23, after “matters” to insert “which are concerns the government expressed in its 2003 submission to the Constitutional Convention opposing the principle of PSC” [“The UK has made clear that it cannot accept the proposed ESDP


reinforced cooperation provisions. While we support Member States making higher capability commitments and co-operating with partners to this end, the approach described here—a self-selecting inner group—undermine the inclusive, flexible, model of ESDP that the EU has agreed.” Submission to Constitutional Convention].”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)



Ayes, 4 Noes, 6





Mr Brian Jenkins

John Smith



Annexes (List of abbreviations; Committee visits; NATO members and partner countries; Defence spending by NATO and EU member states; and Text of the North Atlantic Treaty, 4 April 1949) and Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Ninth Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 19 June, 11 December and 15 January.





Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross


Draft Report (Defence Equipment 2008), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Annex (List of abbreviations) and Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Tenth Report of the Committee to the House.






Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross

1. Petitions

The Committee considered the following petitions to the House:

• From the residents of Chorley and others on the “Military Covenant”, presented by Mr Lindsay Hoyle MP on 27 February 2008;


• From Canvey Island Royal British Legion, Castle Point and others on health and welfare support for veterans, presented by Bob Spink MP on 3 March 2008;

• From the residents of Castle Point and others on more generous policies towards the Armed Forces, presented by Bob Spink MP on 4 March 2008.



Draft Special Report (The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned: Government Response to the Fourth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Fourth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Special Report of the Committee to the House.



Resolved, That two Members and a member of staff have leave to visit Germany to attend Exercise CO-OP SPIRIT on 20-21 September in a representative capacity.



Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross

1. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces


Professor Christopher Dandeker, King’s College London, and Professor Hew Strachan DL, All Souls College, Oxford, gave oral evidence.

Mrs Dawn McCafferty, Chairman, RAF Families Federation, Julie McCarthy, Chief Executive, Army Families Federation, and Mrs Elizabeth Sheldon, Project Director, SSAFA Forces Help, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 1 April at 10.00 a.m.


TUESDAY 1 APRIL 2008

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway





Armed Forces Pay Review Body;

Dr Alex Alexandrou;


WRVS;

Institute of Career Guidance; and

Equality and Human Rights Commission.

2. Visit to Armed Forces Careers Office

Resolved, That the Committee visit the Armed Forces Careers Office at St George’s Court, Holborn, in connection with its inquiry.

3. Industry visit

Resolved, That the Committee visit AgustaWestland at Yeovil.

4. Ministry of Defence Annual Reports and Accounts 2006-07


Draft Special Report (Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07: Government Response to the Fifth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Fifth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Special Report of the Committee to the House.



5. Petition

The Committee considered the petition to the House from the friends of All Saints, Southill, the parishioners of Southill, Byng family members and the supporters of Admiral John Byng on a posthumous pardon for Admiral Byng, presented by Alistair Burt MP on 19 March 2008.

6. ISTAR: Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

Resolved, That the Committee visit Thales at Crawley in connection with its inquiry.


Tim Corry, Campaigning Director, and Sarah Baxter, National Relationship Manager, SaBRE, gave oral evidence.

Richard Longson, President, and Kieran Gordon, former President, Institute of Career Guidance, gave oral evidence.

Christopher Beese MBE, Chief Administrative Officer, Armor Group, and Chris Sanderson, Director of Government Support, Control Risks, gave oral evidence.


TUESDAY 22 APRIL 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith

1. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces The Committee considered this matter. Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:

British Medical Association; and

Richard Wildridge.


2. Industry visit

Resolved, That the Committee visit BAE Systems at Warton.

3. Visit to Southampton

Resolved, That Mr David S Borrow and Linda Gilroy have leave to visit Southampton with the Committees on Arms Export Controls.


Resolved, That Mr Bernard Jenkin and Mr Kevan Jones have leave to visit the Battlegroup Certification Exercise, Salisbury Plain in a representative capacity.

5. Visits to Training Establishments

Resolved, That the Chairman and Mr Kevan Jones have leave to visit ATR Bassingbourn and HMS Raleigh in connection with the inquiry into Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces.

6. Ministry of Defence Main Estimate 2008-09

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the MoD Main Estimate 2008-09.


Mr Chris Baker OBE, Director General Service Personnel Policy, Air Vice-Marshal Simon Bryant CBE, Chief of Staff (Personnel) and Air Secretary, Major-General Andrew Gregory, Deputy Adjutant-General and Director General Services Conditions (Army), Major-General Simon Lalor TD, Assistant Chief of the Defence Staff (Reserves and Cadets), Rear Admiral Charles Montgomery CBE, Chief of Staff (Personnel) and Naval Secretary, and Vice-Admiral Peter Wilkinson CVO, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Personnel), gave oral evidence.


Thursday 24 April 2008

Mr David S Borrow and Linda Gilroy visited the Port of Southampton in accordance with the decision of the Committee of Tuesday 1 April 2008.

Tuesday 29 April 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr David Hamilton, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Brian Jenkins, Mr Kevan Jones and Richard Younger-Ross visited the Armed Forces Careers Information Office, Holborn in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 1 April 2008.


TUESDAY 6 MAY 2008

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard


1. ISTAR



BAE Systems;

Royal Aeronautical Society;

Lee Bruce and Dr Robert Crowcroft;

Intellect;

Ministry of Defence (supplementary);

Thales UK; and

Civil Aviation Authority.



Draft Special Report (Medical care for the Armed Forces: Government Response to the Seventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Seventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Special Report of the Committee to the House.


3. Industry visit

Resolved, That the Committee visit Marshall of Cambridge.



Ordered, That Mr Bernard Jenkin visit Brussels in connection with the Security and Defence Agenda conference on NATO in the next decade on 3 June 2008.

5. ISTAR

Air Vice-Marshal Simon J. Bollom, Director General Combat Air, Air Vice-Marshal Stuart Butler, Capability Manager (Information Superiority) and Air Vice-Marshal Chris Nickols CBE, Assistant Chief of the Defence Staff (Operations), Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 13 May at 10.00 a.m.

Monday 12 May 2008

Mr Bernard Jenkin and Mr Kevan Jones visited the Battlegroup Certification Exercise, Salisbury Plain in a representative capacity in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 22 April.

TUESDAY 13 MAY 2008

Members present:



Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key

1. ISTAR


Ordered, That the following written evidence relating to ISTAR be reported to the House for publication on the internet:

Northrop Grumman;

SBAC; and

General Dynamics.

Mr David Barnes, Thales UK/UAVS, Mr Simon Jewell, BAE Systems/SBACm, Mr Clive Richardson, QinetiQ/Intellect, and Dr Moira Smith, Waterfall Solutions/DMA, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 20 May at 10.00 a.m.


Wednesday 14 – Thursday 15 May 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David Hamilton, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Brian Jenkins and Robert Key visited AgustaWestland, Yeovil in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 1 April 2008.

Monday 19 May 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot visited the Army Training Regiment, Bassingbourn and Mr Kevan Jones visited HMS Raleigh, Cornwall in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 22 April.

TUESDAY 20 MAY 2008

Members present:







Robin Short, Martin Kinsella and David J Walters;

David Gee;

Institute of Career Guidance (Supplementary); and

Naval Families Federation.

2. UK national security and resilience


Morgan Aquila;



DEMOS; and

VT Group.

3. Operational costs in Afghanistan and Iraq: Spring Supplementary Estimate 2007–08


4. Overseas Visit

Resolved, That the Committee visit Australia in autumn 2008, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Chairman of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.


Mr Derek Twigg MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence, and Vice-Admiral Peter Wilkinson CVO, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Personnel), gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 3 June at 10.00 a.m.

Monday 2 – Tuesday 3 June 2008

Mr Bernard Jenkin visited Brussels, Belgium in a representative capacity in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 6 May 2008.

TUESDAY 3 JUNE 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard

Mr Adam HollowayMr Brian Jenkins Richard Younger-Ross

1. ISTAR



Finmeccanica UK;


L-3 Communications UK; and

Ministry of Defence (Supplementary).





4. ISTAR

Mr John Howe CB OBE, Vice-Chairman, Mr Victor Chavez, Vice-President, Business Development, Sales & Marketing, Mr Chris Day, Business Executive, UAV Systems and Mr Nick Miller, Head of UAV Systems Business Development, Thales UK, gave oral evidence.

Mr John Brooks, Vice-President, International Business Development, Mr Graham Thornton, Executive Director, and Colonel Edward Walby USAF (Ret), Director, Business and Strategy Development, Northrop Grumman, gave oral evidence.


TUESDAY 10 JUNE 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard

Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key



Draft Special Report (Defence Equipment 2009: Government response to the Tenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Tenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Special Report of the Committee to the House.





Draft Special Report (The future of NATO and European defence: Government response to the Ninth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Ninth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Special Report of the Committee to the House.


3. Future programme

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the MoD’s Annual Report and Accounts 2007-08.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into Defence Equipment.

Resolved, That the Committee seek oral evidence from the Secretary of State for Defence or the Minister for the Armed Forces before the summer adjournment on the matters of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Resolved, That the Committee agree to meet concurrently with the Foreign Affairs Committee for the purpose of taking oral evidence for the Defence and Foreign Secretaries on the matters of Iraq and Afghanistan after the summer adjournment.

Resolved, That the Committee seek funds for a Committee seminar in Shrivenham.


TUESDAY 17 JUNE 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard






SBAC;

Fujitsu; and

Intellect UK.


Ordered, That the further supplementary memorandum from the Ministry of Defence be reported to the House for publication on the internet.

3. UK operations in Iraq and Afghanistan

Resolved, That the Committee take oral evidence from the Minister for the Armed Forces.

4. FRES

Resolved, That the Committee take oral evidence from the Minister for Defence Equipment and Support.


Mr Tony Baptiste, Manager (Business Development and Strategy), Fujitsu Defence and Security, Fujitsu, Mr John Higgins CBE, Director-General, Intellect UK, Mr David Livingstone MBE DSC, Managing Partner, Morgan Aquila LLP, Mr Hugo Rosemont, Policy Adviser, Security and Resilience, SBAC and Mr Doug Umbers, Managing Director, VT Communications, VT Group plc, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 1 July at 10.00 a.m.

Sunday 22 – Friday 27 June 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr Dai Havard, Mr Bernard Jenkin and Mr Kevan Jones visited Iraq and the Gulf in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 11 December 2007.

TUESDAY 1 JULY 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy

Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins


Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard

Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith

1. Farnborough Air Show

Resolved, That the Committee visit the Farnborough Air Show.

2. Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09

Draft Report (Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.



Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Eleventh Report of the Committee to the House.


[Adjourned till Tuesday 15 July at 10.00 a.m.

Saturday 5 – Friday 11 July 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr Dai Havard, Mr Adam Holloway, Mr Bernard Jenkin and Richard Younger-Ross visited Pakistan and Afghanistan in accordance with the decision of the Committee on 11 December 2007.

Monday 14 July 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Linda Gilroy, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Kevan Jones and John Smith visited the Farnborough Air Show in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 1 July 2008.

TUESDAY 15 JULY 2008

MORNING SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Mr Bernard Jenkin


Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway

Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith Richard Younger-Ross

1. The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability

Draft Report (The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.




Resolved, That the Report be the Thirteenth Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 6 and 13 May and 4 June.


Draft Report (Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.


Annexes (List of abbreviations and The Committee’s web forum) and Summary agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fourteenth Report of the Committee to the House.



Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 1 and 22 April and 20 May.



TUESDAY 15 JULY 2008

AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:


Mr David Crausby Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard

Mr Bernard Jenkin Robert Key

1. UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf

Draft Report (UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.



Resolved, That the Report be the Fifteenth Report of the Committee to the House.



[Adjourned till Tuesday 7 October at 10.00 a.m.

Monday 8 – Tuesday 9 September 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot visited St Malo, France in a representative capacity.

Saturday 20 – Sunday 21 September 2008

Mr Brian Jenkins visited Regensburg, Germany in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 18 March 2008..

Wednesday 1 – Thursday 2 October 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Linda Gilroy, Bernard Jenkin, Kevan Jones and Robert Key visited Defence Equipment & Support, Abbey Wood and Ministry of Defence Counter Terrorism and Technology Centre, Porton Down, Salisbury in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 13 November 2007.


TUESDAY 7 OCTOBER 2008

Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Brian JenkinsRobert Key John Smith Richard Younger-Ross





3. Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel





Resolved, That the Chairman, Mr David Crausby and the Clerk have leave to visit Paris in October for the Conference of EU Defence Committee Chairmen, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Chairman of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 21 October at 10.00 a.m.

Wednesday 15 – Thursday 16 October 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr Dai Havard, Mr Adam Holloway, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Brian Jenkins, Robert Key and John Smith visited the Defence Academy, Shrivenham in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 22 January 2008.



Members present:


Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard

Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins John Smith



Draft Special Report (UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf: Government response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Ninth Special Report of the Committee to the House.




Draft Special Report (Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09: Government response to the Eleventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Eleventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Tenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.


3. Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel


Draft Special Report (Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel: Government response to the Fourteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.


The Government’s response to the Fourteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Eleventh Special Report of the Committee to the House.




Draft Special Report (The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability: Government response to the Thirteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

The Government’s response to the Thirteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the Report be the Twelfth Special Report of the Committee to the House.


5. Petitions

The Committee considered the following petitions to the House:

• From the friends of All Saints, Southill, the parishioners of Southill, Byng family members and the supporters of Admiral John Byng, calling for a posthumous pardon to be granted to Admiral Byng, presented by Alistair Burt MP on 19 March, and the Government observations thereon, and

• From the Havant Ex-Servicemen’s Club, the Havant Royal British Legion and others of like disposition, requesting that the Government be urged to grant citizenship to all former Gurkhas and their families, presented by Mr David Willetts on 8 July, and the Government observations thereon.



Ordered, That the written evidence relating to UK national security and resilience submitted by Clive Murgatroyd be reported to the House for publication on the internet.

Rt Hon Bob Ainsworth, Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Mr Jon Day CBE, Policy Director, and Brigadier Chip Chapman, Director (Military) Counter-Terrorism ands UK Operations, Ministry of Defence, Admiral Lord West of Spithead GCB DSC, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Security and Counter-Terrorism, and Ms Gillian McGregor, Head of Operational Support and Knowledge Management, Office for Security and Counter-Terrorism, Home Office, and Ms Chloe Squires, National Security Secretariat, Cabinet Office, gave oral evidence.


[Adjourned till Tuesday 28 October at 2.15 p.m.

Sunday 26 – Monday 27 October 2008

Mr James Arbuthnot and Mr David Crausby visited Paris, France in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 7 October 2008.


[The Committee met concurrently with the Foreign Affairs Committee]

Members present:

Mr James Arbuthnot Mr David S Borrow Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard

Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross

The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 137A (Select committees: power to work with other committees).

Mr Mike Gapes Sir Menzies Campbell Mr David Heathcoat-Amory Mr Eric Illsley

Mr Paul KeetchMr Malcolm Moss Mr Ken Purchase Sir John Stanley

Mr Mike Gapes was called to the Chair

1. Iraq and Afghanistan

The Committees considered their lines of inquiry.

Rt Hon John Hutton MP, Secretary of State for Defence, and Lieutenant-General Peter Wall CBE, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Commitments), Ministry of Defence, and Rt Hon David Miliband MP, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, and Sir Mark Lyall-Grant KCMG, Director-General, Political Directorate, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, gave oral evidence.



Members present:



Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway



The Committee considered its lines of inquiry.

2. Choice of inquiries

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the Defence Support Group.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into Readiness and Recuperation for the Tasks of today.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the work of the Service Complaints Commissioner.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into defence relations with Russia.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into current and future helicopter capability.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into ISTAR with regard to network-enabled capability and the Defence Information Infrastructure.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the ‘Comprehensive Approach’.

Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the Ministry of Defence’s main and supplementary estimates.

3. Overseas travel: Russia and the Baltic

Resolved, That the Committee visit Russia, Latvia, Georgia and Estonia in the first quarter of 2009 in connection with its inquiry into defence relations with Russia, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.

4. Overseas travel: Brussels

Resolved, That the Committee visit Brussels in the first quarter of 2009 in connection with its inquiry into defence relations with Russia.


Sir Bill Jeffrey KCB, Permanent Under Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence, and Mr Trevor Woolley CB, Finance Director, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 12 November at 2.00 p.m.



Members present:



Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key John Smith




Ordered, That Unite Amicus Section be authorised to publish their written evidence, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 135.

3. Committees on Arms Export Controls

Resolved, That Mr Adam Holloway be nominated to represent the Defence Committee at the Committees on Arms Export Controls, in place of Linda Gilroy.

4. Petition

The Committee considered the petition to the House from Havant Ex-Servicemen’s Club, the Havant Royal British Legion and others concerning the treatment of Gurkhas.


Rt Hon John Hutton MP, Secretary of State for Defence, gave oral evidence.



Members present:


Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Brian Jenkins

Robert Key John Smith





Nicholas Brunt;

EDS;

EADS UK;

Unite Amicus Section;

VT Group;

Royal Aeronautical Society ;

Serco;

DIC;

KBM Consultants; and

Ministry of Defence.


The Chairman declared a non-pecuniary interest in relation to the Committee’s inquiry into Defence Equipment, in that Bob Keen had been his Private Secretary when he had been Minister for Defence Procurement. Mike Turner CBE, Chairman of the Defence Industries Council, Ian Godden, Secretary to the Defence Industries Council and Chief Executive of the Society of British Aerospace Companies, Sandy Wilson, Chairman of the Defence Manufacturers Association, and Bob Keen, Head of Government Relations, BAE Systems gave oral evidence.



Members present:


Mr David S. Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin

Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key John Smith



General Sir Kevin O’Donoghue KCB CBE, Chief of Defence Materiel, Dr Andrew Tyler, Chief Operating Officer, DE&S, and Rear Admiral Paul Lambert CB, Capability Manager (Precision Attack) and Controller of the Navy gave oral evidence.


[Adjourned till Tuesday 9 December at 10.00 a.m.]

Documents

House of Commons Defence Committee - parliament.uk · (Senior Committee Assistant), Christine McGrane (Committee Assistant) ... General Sir Timothy Granville-Chapman GBE KCB ADC Gen,