HUD NSP Webinar: Uniform Relocation Act · HUD NSP - Uniform Relocation Act, 11/1/11 . Kent Buhl: And now for today's event, Uniform Relocation Act, also known as URA. This is a webinar

HUD NSP - Uniform Relocation Act, 11/1/11 Kent Buhl: And now for today's event, Uniform Relocation Act, also known as URA. This is a webinar for all NSP grantees and their partners. This webinar will be an overview of aspects of the Uniform Relocation Act with the focus on NSP compliance. Topics covered will include: fair treatment of person's displaced in conjunction with federally funded projects; requirements for acquisition, rehabilitation and demolition projects; and NSP tenant protections. This webinar is interactive and participants will have an opportunity to have their questions answered after the completion of the presentation. So with us today is Rob Sronce. He's the senior consultant with PMC located in Sacramento, California. He'll be our main presenter. Joan Morgan is from the relocation division of the HOME program and she's here to help answer your questions as well, along with David Noguera, John Laswick and Hunter Kurtz at HUD. And I understand that John would like to start off with a few announcements. John Laswick: Thank you, Kent. Hello, everyone. I just really have one announcement and it is a caution that we are starting to see -- find that NSP2 grantees are looking for creative ways to expend their funds in advance of a February 11 deadline. And we're all in favor of expenditures and generally in favor of creativity, but some of these requests are starting to making us feel a little bit nervous. And I want to alert everyone that there's a point at which doing too much of the wrong thing isn't good. You might hit the expenditure limit in the short run, but if it's an ineligible use of funds or something like that, you'll end up paying a worse price in the long run. So we don't want that to happen to anyone. And what I would say that we would like you to call us or call your field office and talk through any advanced expenditure scenarios prior to committing yourself to any of these. For example, several different folks have asked us about drawing down fees in advance of their actual expenditure, like developer fees or other kinds of fees and escrowing those. Those would not count as expenditures and those would get you in trouble with the Treasury Department. So that's not a winning strategy. One thing that we are allowing is that if you have a rehab contract for a specific building, you can purchase the materials and supplies for that contract and store them as priors or someplace safe. But unless you're doing a lot of that, there isn't a big upside, in my opinion. So just be careful. If you read the NSP2 notice, you will see that the recapture of funds is not the only corrective action that we can take. It's currently the only one that we've decided to take, but we could decide to take others. That decision has not been made yet. But whatever happens, be comfortable that you are on solid ground with eligibility in your national objective and OMP and everything else before you advance into uncertain territory. And please, if you feel a little nervous about it, check in with us. It's much better if you ask now that we can prevent a problem from occurring than it is to try to work you out of that problem.

HUD NSP - Uniform Relocation Act, 11/1/11

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I guess one other announcement is that we have also been seeing a flurry of questions about developer agreements, particularly from organizations, grantees, or subrecipients that have developer agreements with for-profit or not-for-profit developers. And we are preparing a webinar two weeks from today that will get into the details of not only how to strengthen your unapproved development agreement, but hopefully help you get out of or correct one that's not working the way it should. So it's a complex area. We don't expect that everybody's an expert at this. And so we're seeing that. We're also advising people to call in for on-call technical assistance. We can connect you with somebody for six to 16 hours. I was just on the phone with Stu Hershey [ph]. He has a couple of people that work for him who have done a lot of this. And we have several people around the country who can spend some time with you on the phone, figure out what the problem is, and help you correct it before it turns into a bigger issue. So I see that this is actually a good thing. I mean, people are recognizing that they have a problem, and as always, it might feel embarrassing or scary to call us with that, but it's always, always, always better to do that than to hope it gets better on its own. So thanks. Kent Buhl: Thanks, John. And so now let's turn it over to Rob Sronce. Again, he is senior consultant with PMC in Sacramento, California. Hi, Rob. Robert Sronce: Thank you, Kent, and thank you, John. Today we're here to talk about the Uniform Relocation Act also known as URA. The formal long name for the URA is the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970 as amended, also known, of course, as the Uniform Relocation Act, or URA. It is one of several what are called cross-cutting requirements set up by the federal program, which includes NSP -- applies to NSP. It's applied when a real property is acquired, rehabilitated or demolished with federal funds. This includes HUD grants, loans, and contributions. This includes activities under the HOME, CDBG program, Section 108 loans, and NSP. Uniform Relocation Act establishes minimum standards. This is a floor. This is the minimum. It applies when a person -- persons are displaced from their home, from their businesses, or from their farm. Today we're going to be talking primarily about residential displacement. But you should be aware -- it also applies when persons are displaced from their businesses or their farm. It is implemented under 49 CFR Part 24. Note that this is a Department of Transportation regulation at Title 49, Federal Regulation Part 24. This is known as the cross-cutting common rule. It applies to 18 federal agencies and for NSP grantees. It's implemented under the CDBG regulations at 24 CFR 570.606. The URA has four main objectives -- to encourage and expedite acquisition by agreement and without coercion; to have uniform and fair equitable treatment to all persons who potentially are


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displaced or may potentially be displaced; to lessen the overall impact of displacement on the activities that cause displacement or may cause displacement; and also to ensure that decent, safe and sanitary housing is available and affordable for all displaced persons. You should be aware that -- if you're not already aware -- federally funded acquisition and relocation is a complicated matter. There are many rules that govern acquisition of property and relocation and persons. In addition to the federal laws, there are state laws in many states and many sometimes even local rules and laws that may affect acquisition when properties are occupied by a person. There's also we want to call your attention to Section 104(d), which we'll talk about in just a little bit in a few slides. This also applies to HUD projects and programs. And I want to make you aware that this is not a comprehensive training. This is merely an introduction to URA and that there is a very good HUD handbook and many, many forms available, guide forms available in that handbook that are very useful for you if you're conducting an activity that's involved relocation or potentially involves displacement or relocation. So to whom does the URA apply? To any entity that is engaged in real property acquisition, rehabilitation or demolition; whether it is a federally funded project. It applies to public and private entities, such as units or general local government, state, persons, subgrantees, and contractors. And again, we'll have reference to this handbook where you can find the relevant information; in this case, it's in chapter one. So who, in the end, is responsible for assuring compliance with URA? There are all these different entities that it applies to, but who really is responsible? It's going to be you, the grantee. So pay close attention to this, please. We're going to talk a little bit about Section 104(d). It's 104(d) as the Housing Community Development Act. It is implemented under HUD regulations at 24 CFR Part 42. It applies in using certain HUD funds, such as HOME, CDBG or NSP, and Section 108 loans. It applies when lower income housing is demolished or converted and converted into houses that's no longer considered low income housing. 104(d) requires one for one replacement; this is also known as the one for one replacement rule. It requires one for one replacement of lower income housing that is demolished or converted. It also requires assistance to lower income tenants who are displaced by demolition of any housing or the conversion of lower income housing. So that's an important note, that any displacement of low income tenant as a result of demolition, 104(d) applies. Those who are tenants are eligible under 104(d) for assistance and choose to receive assistance under the Uniform Relocation Act or under the rules of Section 104(d), you should know that the calculation of assistance is slightly different under 104(d). And also remember that 104(d) is not applicable to acquisition or rehabilitation or any other activities that do not convert to lower income housing. And again, there's a reference chapter seven of Handbook 1378 where you can find more about Section 104(d).


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There are two main categories of acquisition of URA. URA looks at acquisition as involuntary or voluntary. Most entity acquisitions are going to be voluntary. But you should be aware that there are different requirements for involuntary acquisitions; and also, that voluntary acquisition has a specific definition, specific standards in the regulation to which you must comply in order for us to be considered voluntary. And those are found at 49 CFR 14.201(b)(1)-(5). The requirements for voluntary versus involuntary differ whether or not your agency has -- your local agency does or does not have the power of imminent domain. Most grantees will have these powers. You should be aware of those requirements under involuntary versus voluntary. And owner occupants are not displaced if the acquisition are not considered displaced persons if the acquisition is voluntary. However, tenants are always considered displaced, whether or not it's voluntary or involuntary acquisition. So this is one of the two standards for what is considered voluntary acquisition. This first one is what is considered voluntary acquisition for agencies that do have the power of imminent domain. There must be no specific site or property that must be acquired. In other words, you can walk away. So if you can't walk away for some reason, it's not considered to be voluntary. You must be able to say we can do without the property. And the second bullet here follows the first that it cannot be part of a larger plan or strategy to acquire all or most of the property in a given area. Meaning, it can't be one piece of a larger puzzle that you're trying to put together. You must say you're not going to pursue acquisition if negotiations fail. So if negotiations fail, you'll walk away, entirely voluntary. And that the owner is informed of that that you will walk away if negotiations fail. You're not going to use your power of eminent domain. And that the agency has informed the owner of what it believes to be current market value of the property. So those last two bullets about informing the owner that the acquisition will be voluntary. Now, if your agency or you as an entity do not have the power of eminent domain, you'll merely need to conduct those two information steps. Provide notice to the owner that the property won't be acquired if negotiations fail and what you believe to be the current market value of the property. And again, there is an actual notice for voluntary acquisition both with and without power of eminent domain. So let's quickly recap acquisition. Under involuntary owner-occupants and tenants are considered to be displaced persons; under voluntary acquisition only tenants are considered to be displaced persons. The regulations have serious standards for what is considered to be voluntary and if they differ, then the agencies that do and do not have powers of eminent domain. Tenants are always displaced persons. And a bit of caution is that if you are considering pursuing involuntary acquisition that you seek legal counsel. It can be quite complicated and fraught with hazards. So work closely with your field office, headquarters if you need to, and of course seek legal counsel. And again, chapter five is where you'll find a lot of this information. We're going to move into the requirements for notification and the services and benefits, forms of assistance that you need to provide in case of voluntary acquisition. And then remember these


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standards here that you have to comply with? These are notices that you must provide to the owner. So the notice to the owner -- the voluntary acquisition notice -- you must inform them that you have -- whether you do or do not have powers of eminent domain, that you will not pursue that acquisition if negotiations fail, and of course, the current market value of the property. And again, there are very useful guide forms provided by HUD that provide a safe harbor for making sure you've provided all the necessary information in the correct form. In the case of residential displacement, you must provide relocation advisory services; you must provide [inaudible]. You must provide payments for the additional cost of replacement housing. And we'll discuss each of these. The tenant notification requirements; the general information notices. The first one that goes out, also known as the GIN, tells them that they may be displaced; there's a possibility that they may be displaced and that they do have rights under the relocation act. There has been a notice of relocation eligibility or ineligibility. This is for notifying tenants that they will be displaced and that they are eligible or ineligible for assistance, and discusses replacement housing payments that will be available and all forms of assistance. And there's a 90-day notice that must be provided for the earliest move out date. Remember, this is a minimum 90-day notice. The general information notice, this is a quote from the regulation, must be issued as soon as feasibly possible. So this is really as soon as you know the property that you're interested in. You should make an attempt to notify them that they have rights, that they may need a place. So it's all occupants. And it must be issued no later than the point of initiation of negotiation, or ION. And we'll talk about what ION is in the next slide. This is an important date, an important benchmark -- milestone, I should say -- in their relocation process. This is the date after which the NOE, the notice of legibility or that notice of ineligibility must be issued to all occupants. It's also the date after which new occupants will move in. After the ION must be issued a move-in notice letting them know that they may be displaced but they are not eligible for benefits under the Relocation Act. Each HUD program does have its own definition for ION. If it does not, a default definition applies. The NSP definition is under the CDBG regs and there's the citation right there, 24 CFR 570.606(d)(3). And here it is. If displacement is the result of privately undertaken rehabilitation, demolition, or acquisition, the ION is the execution of the grant or loan agreement between the grantee and the person owning or controlling the real property. So once you have a grant or loan agreement in place that evidences that you're going to be providing assistance with federal funds, then or otherwise in anticipation of using federal funds, the Relocation Act applies. And you must issue the -- you must send out the GIN and get your NOEs out promptly. Next slide. You must then choose those NOE promptly at ION. And the notice of relocation, or the NOE has to describe use following things -- and again, there are sample notices available -- the available


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assistance, estimated amount, type of assistance that will be available, is a displaced household. The procedure -- the specific procedure. How am I going to get assistance? How will this have potentially displaced household to receive assistance? And who will the displaced household contact to get assistance and ask questions? So contact number, phone number, office where they can go and get assistance and find information. And must be specific to individual household. You can't issue generic notice. It has to be specific to that particular household and address their needs. They also must perform of their specific rights of assistance. And again, remember, there are guide forms available. You may also end up fixing a notice of non-displacement, saying, after all, we determined that you will not be displaced; you will not be considered to be a displaced person. However, temporary location may be available if applicable to their household. You must describe other reasons if there are other reasons why someone is not eligible for assistance and not be considered a displaced person. The 90-day notice. That may not be issued before you've made that determination of eligibility or ineligibility -- before you've sent out the NOE or the notice of non-displacement. Itmay not be issued before that. But it must be issued a minimum of 90 days prior to the date at which possession must be surrendered by the tenants. So you have to think about timing there. You must also have, prior to issuing this 90-day notice, must have identified suitable replacement housing which is required for displacement. And we recommend a minimum -- also recommend in addition to the 90-day notice, a minimum 30-day notice to remind people that they're going to be temporarily relocated. Again, there may be some state and local laws that come into play here. Let's talk a bit about the standard for noticing, timing and content as we discuss timing importance. Content is critical. Use those guide forms. They are a safe harbor. Documentation of your noticing is essential. It's very, very important that you be able to document that you complied with the requirements of the act. You need to, when you're writing notice, exhaust all these avenues of notification. Merely saying well, I attempted and here I wrote down the date I sent it, here's a copy of what I sent, I think they got it. That's not going to be really good for documenting compliance. You really need to make sure that you've done everything you possibly can to make sure the notices are received by multiple methods. And document, document, document. It has to be in the primary language of the household and/or you have to offer translation services. And again, there's a guide form in chapter two of the handbook. If using the U.S. Postal Service, use certified mail with return receipt. Certified mail will evidence that it has been delivered; return receipt will provide you as the grantee with evidence who received that letter and when, what day, and who received it. You can request a hard copy receipt. You get back a receipt in the mail of the return receipt, but also the feature you can receive an email receipt of written document. Keep track of everything that's sent. Maybe you


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haven't received a receipt, why not. You have to stay on top of that And again, keep it together with a copy of that letter to document. That's a noticing requirement. You can also serve notices personally. You can do both methods to make sure that someone's received the notice. If you are going to deliver something personally, you need to have some sort of affidavit of the person who delivered it or posting saying, I, so and so, delivered on this date at this location, and certification that they actually have done that and they sign it. Make sure you keep that in your file. It's also, if you're serving something personally, it's a good way to touch base with people to offer to answer questions, to explain it to them. If you're having to translate it, have your translator with you. And verify the occupancy. So make sure that that rent roll that you received is actually accurate. Documentation of occupancy is very important because that NOE or NOI must go out to all occupant members at ION. So you need to know the names of all who are living there -- the correct address, unit number that goes with the tenants, the primary household language so that you can give the notices translated or have translators available. So one of the ways to do that is to get an annotated rent roll at ION or earlier if possible. That provides all this information you need to be able to plan and implement your noticing process. It may be a good idea to make that a condition of your purchase offer. That it's not going to close until you get that annotated rent roll. And again, here's another one of many tools available document -- site occupant records in the handbook to keep track of who's in the property. You'll need to provide relocation advisory services. So we talked about noticing. Now, we're talking about some of the services you need to provide, some of the benefits available to displaced persons. It is not only required but they're really key to a successful relocation. You'll need to assess the needs and preferences of the individual for the type of services they need and explain their rights to assistance. But you're also going to need to offer listings and have available listings of comparable replacement housing so that the displacement persons can go find and secure replacement housing. Information on any other forms of housing assistance that may be available; local assistance programs, the housing authority, a local nonprofit, even home purchase programs may be suitable for displaced persons in preparing to purchase a home. Transportation services, referral services that either you will be providing as the grantee or contractor, other agencies in the community that provide these services, fair housing information, and any other assistance that may be appropriate based on your knowledge of the need of tenants currently occupying the housing. Relocation assistance. You're actually starting to provide some financial assistance here. This is going to payment of your actual reasonable and necessary moving costs and related expenses. There are three methods to determining the amount of relocation assistance or how relocation assistance is provided: the actual cost, a fixed schedule or a combination of the two. And we'll


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talk about these in just a couple of slides. There is a claim form available in the handbook. Chapter three talks about relocation assisting. Actual moving costs and related expenses is going to include these type of expenses: packing and transportation, disassembly/reassembly of appliances and furniture, up to 12 months of storage if it's determined to be necessary, insurance for goods in storage or during transport limited to the replacement value of the goods, or any transport or connection fees associated with utilities: electric water that need to be disconnected or reconnected or transferring fees are considered moving costs. And any other reasonable expenses as determined by the agency, meaning you, the grantee agency. If you choose to go the fixed moving cost route, there is a schedule published by the Department of Transportation -- I'm sorry -- the Federal Highway Administration; it's part of the DOT. And also rate state by state. Every state has different rates. It is a lump sum payment. It is for residential displacement only. It's not for displacing businesses or farms. And even if you don't use this to actually provide relocation assistance, this is a really great budgeting tool to figure out how much money you'll need to budget for potential moving costs. Now, I'm going to talk about relocation housing payments. This is different from the cost of moving. This is if somebody is going to be displaced permanently. Well, all displacement is permanent. But someone's going to be displaced and you'll be providing -- you are required to provide a replacement housing payment. The reason for replacement housing payments are to mitigate some of the hardship that's caused by displacement, the economic hardships, specifically. And it's important to know that the tenure was on its owner or renter occupied and it's very important that this is calculated correctly. So you need to double- and triple-check to make sure your formulas are correct and you understand the requirements of the act from the [inaudible] how to calculate the replacement housing payment. You do need to inform -- there are several options for how to see the replacement housing payment; displaced persons have to be aware of that. And also when someone is choosing replacement housing, it has to be used to -- replacement housing payments have to be used to place persons in comparable housing that is decent, safe, and sanitary. So you as a grantee have to confirm that the housing that someone has selected is in fact decent, safe, and sanitary by inspecting the property and recording that inspection and documenting it. Remember -- document, document, document. The replacement housing payment is -- will go to tenant occupants who are -- who have occupied the property at least 90 days or 90 days or more. There's a maximum amount that they would be eligible to receive. Owner-occupants have threshold of occupancy is 180 days. Tenants can choose to receive monthly rental assistance payments or a lump sum if they choose to use that as a down payment for home purchase.


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Tenants will receive rental assistance payments for 42 months. So that down payment amount will be based on the 42 months timeline and they will receive monthly payments up to 42 months. It's important to understand that rental housing payments are based on the difference between the rent being paid at the displacement unit and the unit that someone is being displaced from and the rent of the replacement housing unit. So it's important to get that rent roll. That's going to be your documentation of what the rent was at ION. And it's also very important to understand that even if the rent at the replacement unit is restricted, it's affordable housing. You still have to do that calculation and pay the replacement housing payment if there is a difference. And it's based on the income for a low-income person. And also remember that owner-occupants are not eligible for relocation assistance in a voluntary acquisition -- in voluntary only. The housing of last resort rule applies if comparable housing is not available within the assistance limit amounts. And in this case, tenants of less than 90 days may receive rental housing payments and owner from 90- to 180-day occupancy may also receive housing payments. And again, look at chapter three of the handbook. And there are several useful claim forms and documentation tools around replacement housing payments. Temporary relocation. There may be individuals who are not going to be displaced but will be required temporary relocation in order to complete the project. They are entitled to homes of assistance. These are people who will be moving back or able to move back into the project. They will receive advisory services so if there's actual reasonable and necessary moving costs or expenses. These are out-of-pocket expenses only in this case -- in the case of temporary relocation. They'll receive rental assistance payments or actual cost difference if there's any. And the standard, remember, for temporary relocation is no more than 12 months. So you cannot temporarily relocate someone if they're going to be out of the unit for more than 12 months. It would then be considered displaced. Look at chapter two of the handbook. Now, we're going to shift gears a little bit and talk about tenant protection requirements. This is not part of the act, not part of the Uniform Relocation Act, but is included in the Recovery Act. There's a policy to learn about tenant protection requirements that applies to NSP dated August 12, 2010. The tenant protection requirements are limited to properties that have been transferred, that are transferred title after February 17, 2009. P roperties must meet the NSP definition of foreclosed. It's important to know that this protects tenants only; not owner-occupants. And that a tenant must be considered to be a bona fide tenant. And look at that policy; it will describe what is a bona fide tenant. The tenant must also have occupied the property at the time of the foreclosure when the foreclosure process was happening. These requirements apply to withhold initial successor in


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interest. Most often this is the mortgage holder. There are -- of the tenant protection requirements are that under a lease that has a set term, as opposed to month to month -- under the lease that has a set term, the tenant must be permitted to pay to the end of the current lease term and must be provided a minimum 90-day notice to vacate. For those tenants who are on a month to month and not a set term, but an open-ended lease, they must be provided -- have been -- provided a minimum 90-day notice. If in the case that the property is being sold to an owner-occupant was their primary residence so this unit that did have a bona fide tenant in it at a time of foreclosure being sold to an owner occupant with a primary residence of a lease may be terminated. However, there is a minimum 90-day notice required. There's a really useful questionnaire in the policy alert that goes through a little decision sheet, how to sort through what applies and whether you've -- the initial successor in interest has complied with the tenant protection requirements. So this is some information you'll need to gather to be able to determine this and document compliance. Was that tenant bona fide? Is the property now occupied? What is the lease term? What are the circumstances regarding the termination of the lease. This is information you'll need to get from that mortgageholder to document that tenant protection requirements have been complied with. If they have not been, you cannot use NSP to purchase the property. So as I mentioned, this is going to require cooperation of that initial successor in interest. It's also -- to really assure document compliance and due diligence on part of the grantee. He needs to document that transfer of title from the owner of the property to the initial successor in interest to the mortgage holder. You're going to need to get [inaudible] affidavit from that initial successor in interest regarding the occupancy. Perhaps make that a condition of a closing or some other evidence unless the property was not occupied when it was foreclosed on by a tenant. Make a site visit and document that you've been to the property, that there's no signs of occupancy. Talk to neighbors. You may want also to consider mailing a GIN -- a general information notice -- to the property. Mark it "do not forward" and certify mail so it will come back to you quickly, so you can say, look, this property is not occupied. There are sorts of ways to document that it's not occupied. Here are the five rules of relocation. Make sure you plan. There's a lot of planning required. A lot of critical dates. Make sure you plan for all those dates and you can comply with the noticing requirements, most importantly. It could end up impacting your project. Budget. Budget accurately. Understand what the potential liabilities may be for relocation services, advisory services, temporary relocation, moving expenses, replacement housing payments. Inform. Inform the owner. They have rights to requirements and you inform them so that you've got a voluntary acquisition. Inform the occupants. Continually inform making sure you keep them up to date on any changes in the project. Provide that assistance. And of course, document, document, document.


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We're at the end of slides regarding URA. I want to point you to some -- before you open up the Q&A with the panel and HUD experts. If you're not familiar with the resource exchange, you should try to visit there as soon as you can. There are number of fabulous resources available on the web. And here are some of the URLs for the resource exchange. There's the library, the FAQs, the training materials for the webinar will be occupied; you can ask questions, and request TA. There's also a listserv. Flickr gallery and YouTube channel. And also, we very much would appreciate your feedback at the end of this webinar. There's a few source questions on SurveyMonkey. There's the URL right there and you can click on that and we're all done and give us your feedback. We'd really appreciate it. At this point, I'll send it back over to Kent and open up for questions and answers with the panel. Kent Buhl: Thank you, Rob. And just a little clarification on this slide. When you leave this webinar, you'll be automatically taken to the survey monkey survey. But that's not it. There's a lot of questions coming up. And let's see what some of those are. Let me just remind you here. There are a couple of different ways to ask questions. Let's see. Julie asked, what defines initiation of negotiation. And you went over that, but that may be helpful to do again. And I think that was -- I'll go back to your slide 20 and 21, Rob. Robert Sronce: Yes. And that date is important because that's when you've got to get those NOE or NOI out. But the definition will vary depending on the HUD program. There is a default definition in the URA. For NSP grantees it's defined, if you go to the next slide. There's the definition for NSP grantees. That's CDBG regulations. So that's when you executed that grant or loan agreement. I don't know if Joan or John you want to chime in on maybe questions you've received about ION and classifications? Joan Morgan: Well, because there are so many variations on how NSP grantees are acquiring property now, they really need to take a look at both the CDBG definition and the general URA definition. And in theory, ION is when I have started talking to someone about buying their property and I'm actually pursuing this property. You know, when you have a situation with tenants and because you can't really tell a tenant who's being displaced until you have agreement of the owner, then it's limited to where you have the agreement executed with the owner to purchase the property. But there's so many variables, whether you're dealing with a single family or a multi-family. What you always want to keep in mind is when I know I'm targeting this property and when it's for sure these folks are going to be impacted, that's when I need to be notifying them that they are going to be displaced or not be displaced. Robert Sronce: Yeah. Thank you, Joan. That's an important point.


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Joan Morgan: And if people have issues or questions about their particular project, then they should discuss that with the relocation specialist in the regional office that handles their area because they can look at the nuances of their particular project. Robert Sronce: And Joan pointed, this is a -- that you should notify potentially impacted displaced persons as early as possible. And remember to notify tenants. Joan Morgan: And ideally, you'll buy vacants. But that's not always possible. And because the definition of foreclose has been expanded in the NSP program, it's created a lot of complications for grantees. Because when you're talking about a short sale being a foreclosure, it's not really a foreclosure, but it is for NSP purposes. So you may still have the owner in the property. So it gets a little complicated. HUD never does anything easily. Kent Buhl: Is there such a thing as an overall flowchart? Or was that the -- take up too much on the wall? Robert Sronce: How big's your wall? Kent Buhl: Exactly. I guess that's the answer, huh? Let's see. MW has a question. And MW, I'm going to go to you now and unmute you. Are you there? MW? Perhaps not. I'll come back to that one in a little bit, then. How about Amber? And Amber, I'm going to unmute you to ask your question. Amber Lily [ph], are you there? Q: Oh. Yes. Can you hear me? Kent Buhl: Yes. We can. Q: Okay. We are actually looking at acquiring -- I apologize. I'm Amber Lily with the City of Anderson, Indiana. And we are looking at acquiring [inaudible] sheriff's sale. And I want to make sure we send out the proper URA notices. And I didn't know. Is that considered an involuntary or voluntary acquisition? Joan Morgan: Sheriff's sales are particularly complicated. And I would suggest that you deal with your local legal consult on that because we've taken general overall answers to questions like that because every state has different laws about how they handle sheriff's sales and what the redemption periods are. And our thinking is with NSP, you do not want to mess around with those. If they have redemption periods or redemption periods that would extend beyond the end of your NSP grant because if the owner then wants to redeem the property or does, you may have funds you have to return. There's just too many complications with those kind of purchases. And if you want to pursue it, then you need to pursue that through your legal counsel and make sure they can advise you as to what those complicating factors are going to be for you.


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Q: Okay. So we really just need to have our attorney handle it? Joan Morgan: Oh yeah. Q: Okay. Because it actually goes up for sheriff's sale. It's already went through the foreclosure process and it's going December 9th. Joan Morgan: I can't help you because that's a matter of local law. And maybe issues for your NSP program that you need to take into consideration before you put any bid in on a sheriff's sale. John Laswick: Some would say if your attorney's not sure, we still have sort of occasional use of the services of Heather Johns in the Indianapolis field office. And she was a title attorney for many years, so she's got way more knowledge about this than just about anybody else in our group. So she has transferred over to the legal office there, but she left her heart in NSP. So I think she could try to help you out if you really get stuck. Q: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. John Laswick: Sure. Kent Buhl: Thanks, Amber. I hope that goes smoothly for you. And Danielle is next. And Danielle Thomas [ph], are you there? Q: Yes. I am here. Hi. Can you hear me? Kent Buhl: Yes. We can. Go ahead and ask your questions. Q: Okay. I just wanted to know what determines if storage is necessary? I noticed that on the slide it said that there could be funding or assistance with storage. But who makes the determination? Does the tenant say yes I definitely need storage and the agency pays for it, or does the agency make that determination? Joan Morgan: The agency makes the determination of what's reasonable and necessary. Normally you would not pay storage unless this is a temporary relocation. It all depends on what you're doing. If you're renovating the unit and you're taking out lead-based paint and you have to make sure no contamination gets on their personal effects. So personal effects may need to be stored for the time you're doing the lead-based paint removal, or you may have to store things if they're moving to a hotel temporarily and everything needs to be out of the unit for the renovations that you're doing for the property. For the most part, if you're making a permanent move, there should not be storage unless the comparable you offer them was one of your brand-new NSP houses that's not quite ready yet and you need them out of the one that you're displacing them from. So you might need to store their


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items temporarily until the decent, safe, and sanitary comparable is available. But it's a case by case determination and the agency needs to make it, not the individual. Q: Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Joan Morgan: Sure. Kent Buhl: Good question, Danielle. Thank you. And Vivian asks if you decide to relocate out of state, will all moving expenses be paid? Joan Morgan: Under the Uniform Act, it covers moving for a 50-mile radius. If they want to move out of state and it's more than 50 miles, you can pay them up to what it would cost to move 50 miles. After that, they're on their own. Kent Buhl: That makes sense. Tony's question is an agency without eminent domain plans to acquire properties using federal funds. The homeowner is an institution, a nursing home, and there is no reasonable expectation of return to the home. The home is otherwise vacant; is URA info notice required? Joan Morgan: Yes. Because you have to notify the owner that they're not living there, that they're institutionalized and they still need to be notified. It would be the same as an absentee owner. You still have to notify them you want to purchase the property. Robert Sronce: This would be relocating a business? Replacing a business? Joan Morgan: No. It was an individual who's in a nursing home. Hunter Kurtz: [Inaudible] need to relocate their possessions. Is that what you're saying? Robert Sronce: They're already at the home. Joan Morgan: Can you re-read the question? Kent Buhl: Sure. Yeah. So an agency without eminent domain plans to acquire a property using federal funds. The homeowner is a nursing home and there is no reasonable expectation of return to the home. The home is otherwise vacant. Is URA relocation notice required? Robert Sronce: The homeowner is in a nursing home. Joan Morgan: Oh. So there's no property on-site, either. They're not occupying the property. You would have to give them the notice to owner that you want to purchase the property but since they are not living there, they are not entitled to relocation assistance. And since there's no personal property in the house, which is what I'm gathering from this. In other words, the furniture isn't left behind, then they don't get a relocation notice either. However, if their furniture is still there, you do have to pay relocation for the furniture. So you


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would have to give them a relocation notice. So there might be more to that question than we're getting. Kent Buhl: Okay. Well, hopefully that answers your question, Tony. And going to go now to Adam who has a couple of questions. I'm going to unmute you Adam. Adam Marcus [ph], hello. Q: Yes. Thank you. Kent Buhl: Hi. Q: Hi. Calling in from New York City. We're doing a buyer direct program so we're helping with assisted acquisitions. So we're not buying properties ourselves. Two questions. One would be -- and I think this was answered after I posted my question. I couldn't figure out how to remove it. But what's best practice for verifying vacancies? And the second question is, does this apply to squatters? Does either of the two, URA or the second set of rules, apply to squatters? Robert Sronce: Tenant protection? Q: Yeah. Joan Morgan: If they're not a legal tenant, the tenant protections don't apply. That may have some complication in terms of state law because sometimes if a person has been in a property and the owner has known they're there and not taken any action to get them out, they may be considered a tenant under state law. So I'd be very cautious about anything with someone who's squatting. Under URA, we used to have the terminology "squatter" in the rule. That's been removed. It now refers to persons who are legal occupants. Again, that might depend on state law. You have to determine whether that person who's staying there would meet a state law requirement as being a tenant occupant if the owner knew they were there and they were a tenant at will. If they weren't and they just broke it and the owner didn't know they were there, they wouldn't be considered a tenant under either tenant protection or the URA and would not be entitled to relocation assistance. But you might want to give them some advisory help to find them a good place to move to. And can you tell me a little bit about your -- I can't remember what you called it. This -- Q: Buyer direct. Joan Morgan: Buyer direct. Yes. Q: Yeah. So we're working with National Committee Stabilization Trust. So they'd be sourcing our real properties in our census tracks -- during NSP census tracks. And we provide principle reduction to home buyers, owner-occupants. We'd be buying directly from the servicers. So we kind of facilitating that.


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John Laswick: So they go out and identify a property or you give them a list of NSP properties and they find one they like. And then you come in and help them on the purchase end on the financing side. Q: Right. So from our reading of this, since we're a subgrantee or subrecipient, we need to do our due diligence on the properties, part of which would be the temporary relocation, verifying that they're indeed vacant. Joan Morgan: Correct. And -- Q: In New York State, some of these properties have been sitting for two years. So that's where it gets a little complicated in terms of knowing who knew who was in the property. John Laswick: I think there were some steps up on the PowerPoint show, but other people have checked utility records, postal vacancy records. None of these things is foolproof, but if you have several -- if you research several sources and they're all coming up negative, then I think you're at least building a pretty good case that you performed your due diligence. And you might, just as a safety, keep a little bit of money in case somebody ends up with a valid claim, then you could -- you'd have $10,000 or $15,000 to satisfy the claim just in case. Q: That's a very important point. I've been a grantee and that's a very important point to make sure you've got that buck on the back end for those question marks where you shouldn't put it direct. Because the last thing you want is to come back and not have the funds budgeted to pay for a lay claim. If the project completes, we may want to [inaudible] special funds we've got for a certain amount of time. Joan Morgan: Yeah. And this is one thing that many of our regional relocation specialists have told us is a very big issue that grantees are not doing enough due diligence ahead of time, particularly with multifamily projects that they're purchasing. And they haven't looked at the tenant occupants to see will they be eligible to stay or will they be displaced and what is the financial impact if those folks are displaced. And that's all got to be part of your financing package. If you know there are folks in a property and you want to buy it and turn it into housing for people with alcohol problems and you don't want to let anybody stay who doesn't have alcohol problems and you think your current population is fine and you go proceed on buying and rehabbing whatever and then you find out you've got two or three households that can't stay in this new project you've conceived of. You've suddenly got yourself a displacement cash outlay obligation. And if you haven't factored that in, if you didn't do enough homework up front, you could end up with a project that's not financially feasible and you're stuck with it. Q: Kent, can you clarify really quick? I don't know who said it, but it was if the project completes -- in other words, February 2013 comes and goes and NSP funding is if it's not spent, it's gone. How exactly do we reserve funds to cover these costs if they happen after that due date?


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John Laswick: Well, I think that might've been Rob that said that. I think he was thinking before the end of the program. Chances are, your grant will still be open at that point. And with any luck, you'll have some program income. But I would also think that buy that time, you would've -- somebody who had a valid claim would've found you. So hopefully that'll all work out. Kent Buhl: Thank you. Adam, did you -- you'd also asked about best practices in terms of determining if the home is vacant. And I believe this is the slide. Is that right, Rob? Robert Sronce: John mentioned some of those; things like sending out a letter that just says do not forward, it'll bounce back by certified mail; going and visiting a site. You know, Joan mentioned postal office records as well. John Laswick: Yeah. Sometimes you can talk to the neighbors. I mean, I've heard that -- most of the people I've talked to that I think are doing a good job on this generally send somebody out right away. But the eligibility for this kind of extends before that for 90 days in theory. So still trying to figure out while it may be vacant today, but it wasn't vacant two months ago. And that's a little harder to pin down sometimes. But you talk to neighbors. There's no one really great source on this. I mean, even utilities; sometimes they'll keep them on. They'll pass the date when someone vacates the property. But again, I think it comes down to showing in totality that you really tried to find somebody so that if somebody decides to take you to court, the worst that would happen is that you'd actually have to -- you'd have to pay for the actual damages, what you would have had to pay had you found them originally, but not get penalized for not doing your job. Joan Morgan: And chances are, it's better out there. I mean, when the tenant protections were put in place for NSP, there was a comparable law put in place for all foreclosures in the United States that would've applied whether it's NSP or not. And I think when NSP first came about, we started making people aware of the tenant protection is on all foreclosures. I think by this point, legal aid has educated all tenants and all lenders that they need to be aware of the tenant protections for foreclosures with tenant occupants. So you may find lenders who have more in their documentation in terms of actually providing a 90-day notice to a tenant to leave ahead of you even coming into the picture looking to buy a foreclosure. John Laswick: Right. They kind of were hoping this would go away, originally. I mean, the impetus for this language that really was not in federal programs; it was people who might've defaulted on their mortgage, moved out, and then were renting to somebody under the impression that they could continue to stay in that house. And it turned out they really ended up occupying the property that the bank was about to foreclose on and they came home from work one day and found all their possessions on the lawn. So we're not seeing that as much anymore. And as Joan said, I think it's -- the banks have kind of picked this up and realized it's in everybody's best interest to get those notices out. So we're not -- we're working back into this black hole they way we were originally with this thing.


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Kent Buhl: Going to go to Beth Posey [ph] now in North Las Vegas. Hi, Beth. Q: Hi. This is Beth Posey with the City of North Las Vegas. We've acquired a multi family complex and have hired a consultant for relocation specialist. They've submitted a plan to us that I've completed my initial review. Most of these people qualify under 104(d). Well, actually all of them do. And my situation that I've run into in my initial review is that everybody has been determined to be policy of last resort. I'm wondering if we can go back to that. And does that fall into play if these people are unable to credit qualify to move into another apartment? Joan Morgan: Okay. So why do they qualify for 104(d)? Are you demolishing this property? Q: Yes. Demolishing, and they're low income. Joan Morgan: Okay. Well, housing of last resort really applies only to the URA. 104(d) is always housing of last resort because it's low-income tenants. Q: Oh. Okay. This was -- okay. Joan Morgan: Right. And the problem is Section 104(d), the calculations are based on 60 months of payments. And the definition of income that we also use for our public housing program so it's net income and URA uses gross income. So there is a big difference between the payments that one could be eligible for under Section 104(d) or under URA. I'm not quite sure what -- so you said there were problems with some that might not be able to credit quality for -- Q: Yes. That's right. I'm sure it'll be an issue for most of the people in that complex. Joan Morgan: Well, then what you may be able to do with the owners of -- because you do have to pay a security deposit under 104(d). So you would be able to advance the security deposit to an owner. And you might also be able to create some kind of tri-party agreement between you, the displaced person, and the owner to set up a methodology of ensuring that they get their rent on time or they get the portion that would be the replacement housing payment assistance on time and they kind of make up their version. It's going to be really hard when you have someone with credit issues, but chances are if the new landlord knows that this person is getting a force of funds to help pay the rent for a five-year period of time and that you can all work together. You do not have to pay the rental assistance -- in fact, you can't pay the rental assistance in one lump sum under HUD statutory limitations. We say it has to be disbursed periodically. You might be able to make an arrangement with the owner or the landlord of the new property and the person who's being displaced to do a monthly periodic displacement to directly to the landlord for maybe a year or so, so they're comfortable they're going to get their money. Q: [Inaudible]. Okay. [Inaudible].


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Joan Morgan: It has to be done with the agreement of the displaced person. But it really is to their advantage because they're liable to get into nicer housing where the owner is more diligent about his tenants screening extremities than an owner who's not so diligent and might not have such a nice property to go to. Q: Right. And most of them that we've been trying are much nicer. May I ask you one more question? Joan Morgan: Oh. It also would be very valuable to see if you could get some credit counseling people to work with these families as part of your relocation assistance advisory services so maybe they could get themselves out of whatever created this problem for them. Go ahead with your other question. Yeah. Q: My other question is for a couple of nonprofit organizations, one was operating out of the multi-purpose building and one was operating out of an apartment. And what I've seen that have been offered for replacement sites for these two nonprofits don't look like -- well, one's a church and it doesn't have a big enough auditorium area to -- another place to go, most people at the church. Joan Morgan: You're really talking a business relocation there. And businesses are not entitled to comparable housing. There are different rules for displacement of businesses. You can help them find replacement location. They're entitled to certain reestablishment expenses, but they don't get a month to month differential like one does as a tenant in a residential building. So there's a -- Q: So basically we can give them a few suggestions, give them what they're entitled to and let them go find their own spot, right? Joan Morgan: That's correct. Yeah. And there is a chapter in our handbook that talks about business displacement, which also includes nonprofits. And so it will guide you through the kinds of claims that they can make and payments that could be made on their behalf in terms of reestablishment. Q: Okay. One more question. As I have tenants in there, they do not qualify for relocation because they were given a move-in notice and they moved in after the GIN. And they have not accepted any other type of relocation assistance we've attempted to give them through the county. Are they allowed to stay in that apartment through the end of their lease? Joan Morgan: So they moved in after your project was a known fact. You gave them a move-in notice. Q: Right. Joan Morgan: And what did you give them? A year lease?


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Q: Well, I haven't reviewed the leases. We just got them. But I think they have six months. And so if we can't -- if they don't want to be replaced and we've offered to help through our social services department, it's not as extensive, of course, as URA or 104(d). But anyway, some of them have refused to even accept meeting or to try to find out what kind of assistance is available to them. So if they refuse to move, it's our obligation to leave them there until the end of their lease? Joan Morgan: Well, yeah. Unless they create some cause for you to evict them, like failing to pay their rent on time or something. Q: Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess I'll put my hand down. Thank you. Joan Morgan: Very good questions. Q: Thank you. Kent Buhl: Thanks, Beth. Robert Sronce: Kent, this is Rob. I'd like to commend Beth for taking the time to really understand and review her relocation plan from her consultant. Having been on both sides of the table, it's a great way to expand capacity and get some expertise. But I would tell grantees, please, please don't rely solely on your consultant for knowledge of what your obligations as the grantee are because in the end, you as the grantee are going to held responsible both under the law and financially. So please, please, please make sure you understand what your obligations are and what your liabilities are. Using consultants is fabulous. You don't have the time or the expertise or breadth of knowledge, but don't let that substitute for understanding yourself. Kent Buhl: Good questions coming in and a bunch more in the queue. So here's one from Patrick. Just wanted to make sure that we shouldn't be moving residents without a clearly defined URA plan by the developers first; correct? Robert Sronce: That's correct. Make sure you have a good plan in place. Kent Buhl: Very good. And Christina asks, what is considered a bona fide tenant, specifically a family member that is the sole occupant that is not paying rent for a lease agreement? John Laswick: That's not a bona fide tenant. Anybody that is paying substantially below a market rate, whether they're a relative or a friend of the owner or something like that is not considered for tenant protections to be a bona fide tenant. Joan Morgan: Yeah. And there is a definition in the notices that have come out on that. So it should be fairly certain. It's really easy to identify that's not a project.


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Hunter Kurtz: Yeah. It's in August of 2009, I think was updated. So that's really repository of all knowledge on tenant protections on our side. Robert Sronce: And that policy alert has a little decision tree you can walk through. Kent Buhl: Okay. Next up is Becky, who's had her hand up for quite a while there. Hi, Becky. Q: Hi. How are you today? We have a question. If we have an NSP eligible property, its back taxes are delinquent, but the individual who is moving into foreclosure is still living in the property. I'm thinking of that ION notice. We typically with foreclosed property send it to the bank to initiate that. But would we send it to the main and to the resident or would we send it to just the resident? Joan Morgan: You should probably send it to both. I gather at this point that the foreclosure is not complete so the bank isn't really owner. The person is still in the property and still is the owner, but they're losing their property based on tax liens and foreclosure. So I'd send it to both. Q: Okay. Exactly. Okay. That sounds perfect. Thank you. Robert Sronce: And just to clarify. That's the voluntary acquisition notice. Q: Yes. Exactly. Joan Morgan: Right. Q: Yeah. It really is that letter that we sent out with all of our NSP1 properties to start initiating the negotiations. But with all of our NSP1 properties, they were owned by a bank at that point in time. And the individual wasn't part of that [inaudible]. Joan Morgan: Well, as part of the expansion of the NSP definition of foreclosed where it really is prior to foreclosed but we consider it the same animal. Q: Sure. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much. Joan Morgan: Or maybe they'll be willing -- maybe they had a nice tri-party agreement with the bank and the state and the -- Kent Buhl: Thank you, Becky. And just a reminder to click your "lower hand" button to take yourself out of the queue. And next up, Julie asks that you explain the $5,250 max for tenant occupants. Is that the next one URA tenants? Joan Morgan: No. It's kind of an oddity in the law. This is a law that has the statutory maximum and a statutory requirement that you exceed the maximum if they can't move for that amount. Unfortunately, the Uniform Act limits have not be increased for, I think, 15 years or so. And the


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Department of Transportation is trying to get that $5,250 increased so it's more current with market events. However, because of the requirement of looking at a low income person's percentage of income for rent, we generally find that most low income people will come under the exception which requires that you pay more, meaning housing of last resort; like $5,250 wouldn't get them into decent, safe, and sanitary comparable housing for the next 42 months. Robert Sronce: That may have been what the North Las Vegas plan was referring to as well. Could've been. Joan Morgan: Yeah. I mean, if the statutory maximum, that's not a statutory maximum. It's kind of an oddity. Kent Buhl: Next up is Vincent. And I'll unmute you now, Vincent. Hello? Hello, Vincent. And Vincent's not there. We'll come back to him. And how about Mary Ann? No longer there. Danielle asks, can you please -- no. And you may have just done this. "Can you please provide an example of when housing of last resort would apply? Would it apply in a situation where the original unit has a fireplace that no replacement unit with a fireplace can be located within assistance limits?" Joan Morgan: I don't know that I would call that housing of last resort. A fireplace is not necessarily a factor of comparability if you look at the definition of comparability. It may be something that you would have to carve out of the acquisition. When we look at comparability, we look at the purpose of the item. And one property may have a pantry; other properties that you find are basic comparable don't have pantries, but they have substantially more cabinet space which serves the same purpose. Fireplaces are an additional amenity which may or may not be common in the community that you're looking for housing. I would be careful in terms of saying that that's something that you have to add to the comparability. I'd need to know more about the situation. And I don't know that you would do the housing of last resort based on only a fireplace. Kent Buhl: All right. Lanette, she asks, "Under 104(d), one-for-one replacement, if we have an NSP project planned to be rehabbed, and now it's determined to rebuild at a lower unit number, do we advertise that we are reducing affordable stock?" Joan Morgan: NSP has an exception to the one-for-one replacement requirements. It has to do with how you describe in your NSP plan what you're going to do in terms of replacement housing. So it's not as strict as most 104(d) reporting requirements. It's more of reporting requirements than it is a posting requirement.


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John Laswick: Yeah. The idea there is that -- in many markets, not all, where we're working, there's an excess of housing. So you can remove some affordable housing and you're still not really damaging the stock of affordable housing. If you're in southern California, that might not be as true as it is in say southern Florida. You can look at that section in the notice -- NSP notice and see that if your plans address this, it's not necessarily a requirement that you're providing one to one replacement. Kent Buhl: Next up is Jesus. And I'll unmute you now. Hi, Jesus. Q: Good afternoon. Jesus Morales with the City of Corona in California. A 104(d) question. Rob mentioned earlier to make sure you review your consultant's relocation plan. One of the items in the relocation plan that we've looked at are addressing 104(d). The property was acquired with NSP1 as a 12-unit apartment building occupied by seven households. We're going to do essential rehabilitation on this property. All seven households will be relocated as a result of that. Once completed, the unit will be available to qualify in very low income households. Also working with our local homeless shelter partner that will offer units to graduates of their transitional program, but the units will also be available to under very low qualifying households. So as a result of that, a comment was made that 104(d) doesn't apply because it's not a conversion and it won't be available on a one-for-one basis to very low income households. I just want to confirm that that is the case, 104(d) wouldn't apply in this case. Joan Morgan: That sounds correct based on what you've told me because you're not demolishing the building nor are you making it non-low-income housing. It's going to continue as low income housing, just maybe not for the same current population. And you're not demolishing the building so the requirements for 104(d) don't fit your project and don't apply. Q: Okay. Second question. In regards to -- we started with this project when we received the NSP1, at that point in time using the 25 percent set aside to acquire the property. And as we developed the rehab plan, we have planned to use redevelopment funds. Unfortunately because of the state budget situation in California, we weren't able to access those funds and had to sort of fall back on. Now, I've been able to use some of the NSP3 money and some program income to do the rehab on that project. So initially we did give the tenants the general information notice. However, we have been in this extended period up until the time now when we have our budget finalized at this point in time once they know all the conditions and our budget is satisfied, we can now give them their notice of eligibility to explain what their benefits are once we can start the relocation. Was there anything else we needed to be doing during that period of time? Joan Morgan: Well, it sounds to me like you probably needed to give them a notice of eligibility some time ago and now you would be ready to maybe give them their 90 days' notice to move. That's sort of water under the bridge at this point in time. I guess you'll have to do a combination of notice of eligibility and 90 days' notice to move or maybe more depending on what your


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timing is, but you cannot do less than 90 days' notice. And your notice has to identify comparable housing for them to move to. Q: Right. Okay. Joan Morgan: Okay. Q: Okay. That was it. Thank you so much. Joan Morgan: It's hard when funding sources disappear on you. Kent Buhl: Before we get to more questions, I'll show you what's coming up with NSP webinars. A robust schedule that's been added to recently with all of these that you see plus at least five more in January. So lots of webinar opportunities coming up for you. I hope you'll able to make some of those. And that -- Hunter Kurtz: Kent? Kent Buhl: Yeah? Hunter Kurtz: This is Hunter. I just want to point out that we just found out this morning that the November 8 webinar is going to have to be postponed. We're looking at a date in December to do it, but we'll keep you up-to-date on that date. John Laswick: Well, the reason is that we're substituting it the live webinar on targeting and marketing analysis and that sort of stuff. Live from HUD headquarters. Kent Buhl: Very good. And let's go now to Natalie. Q: Okay. Thank you. Kent Buhl: Natalie, are you there? Q: Yes. I am. Kent Buhl: Hi. Q: Hi. I'm always curious. People keep saying low income. Are they talking about 50 percent, 30 percent? What percentage of the area median income are they referring to especially when we talk about 104(d)? Joan Morgan: Eighty percent. Q: Eighty percent. Joan Morgan: Mm-hmm.


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Q: Eighty percent and lower, correct? Joan Morgan: Right. Q: Thank you very much. Kent Buhl: Thank you, Natalie. And let's go now to Tom Wertz [ph]. Hi, Tom. Tom, are you there or not there? And let's try Vincent one more time. Hi, Vincent. John Laswick: He's been relocated. Q: Hello? Are you there? Kent Buhl: Yes. We hear you now. Thank you. Q: Okay. We have a tenant who, in the place they were living originally, paid their security deposit. Would we need to pay that security deposit again to the new place they're moving to? Joan Morgan: Under the URA, security deposits are not a payable expense. Under -- because it's something that would be reimbursed to the tenant at the time they move out. So reimbursable deposits are not covered under the URA. However, they are under Section 104(d) if you have a tenant who's subject to Section 104(d). Q: Okay. I think it's the URA. Joan Morgan: Well, we have suggested to some housing authorities who run into this issue because they have very low income tenants that we have suggested to them that perhaps they make a loan to the tenant for the security deposit that the tenant can pay back. Or perhaps they can advance funds out of the replacement housing payment with the tenant's agreement so that they know that these funds are being advanced to them for the purpose of paying their security deposit. Because that can be a hang up to make it difficult if not impossible for someone to move and you do want them out of your building so you can start doing what you need to get done. Q: Okay. Kent Buhl: I think we've stemmed the flow of questions here. Perhaps that's it. We'll give you just another few seconds to either raise your hand or submit a question. And I'll remind you also that once this webinar is over, you'll be taken automatically to a SurveyMonkey survey and we would very much appreciate taking the couple of minutes to respond. Let us know how this webinar was for you and what you'd like to know more about in the future. Okay. And I see no more questions at the moment. Anything -- any final comments from any of our panelists?


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Robert Sronce: No. We're good here. Kent Buhl: Okay. Well, then I'll take this opportunity to thank Rob Sronce for this presentation, Joan Morgan for all of her helpful answers, and of course John Laswick and Hunter at NSP headquarters as well. And we hope to see you all soon at another NSP webinar. Thank you, everybody. Take care. Robert Sronce: Thank you. Bye.

Documents

HUD NSP Webinar: Uniform Relocation Act · HUD NSP - Uniform Relocation Act, 11/1/11 . Kent Buhl: And now for today's event, Uniform Relocation Act, also known as URA. This is a webinar