Photo by Bernard Hermant on Unsplash

Leadership Moments: "When Loyalty IsAll That's Left, Departure is Essential"Published on May 17, 2018

Adam Bryant InfluencerManaging Director at Merryck & Co40 articles

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During her extensive C-suite career, my colleague Meredith Hellicar, the CEO ofMerryck & Co. ANZ, has done it all -- worked in multinational public companies aswell as start-ups, served on and chaired boards, and mentored 30 seniorexecutives. In these "Leadership Moments" interviews, I'm asking Merryck'smentors about the key lessons they learned during their careers and their bestmentoring advice. Here's the conversation I had (edited for space) with Hellicar,which included her provocative advice about knowing when it's time to leave acompany or when it's time to let someone go.

Q. Over the course of mentoring about 30 clients, what are some of the patterns you’veseen?

A. A few themes come up time and again. One would be about grappling for a sense ofpurpose. Most senior executives are very high performers and they’ve moved quicklythrough their careers with a mindset of doing and achieving. Now that they’re leading anorganization or an entire division, they are starting to think more about legacy and purpose.

Q. What do you tell them?

A. My role is to challenge them, to help them work it out, so I ask a lot of questions. Theone thing I do reinforce for them is that they’re asking the right question, that it’s worth

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spending time on, and that answering it will make a difference to their leadership andeffectiveness, which will flow to the bottom line of the business performance.

Q. So what questions do you ask?

A. Sometimes they think that there’s a contradiction in being so focused on short-termresults while also wondering about their own long-term legacy. So I ask questions to helpthem see that it’s a “both-and” situation, rather than an “either-or.” I ask about their valuesand what they want to be remembered for.

I also ask more immediate questions about the events and interactions that trouble them andwhy, to clarify what’s happening inside them as they encounter different issues. I’ll listen forwords or phrases they use a number of times and ask them to elaborate on what theymean. They have the answers within them -- I just help them connect dots and offerchallenging observations.

Q. Other themes that come up?

A. There is always something about the team. Invariably they have one person on their teamwho really shouldn’t be there, and they know it. I’m always struck by how businesses are sooften portrayed as being hard-hearted and ruthless. But human beings are overly loyal – totheir companies, to the people who work for them, and to their bosses. I have a little saying:“When loyalty is all that’s left, departure is essential.”

Lastly, when a leader tells me their team is working really well together, I wonder what’sreally going on there, because sometimes the leader is averse to generating robust debate.The clue will be that they’re finding it hard to get some things done. That generally is a signthat everybody’s just agreeing to what the leader is saying, or someone else in the room isdominating the discussion and there’s not really robust debate.

Q. You get a window into many corporate cultures through your clients. What are the bigmomentum killers?

A. There’s no doubt that companies are being gummed up by complexity, because of thespeed of change in so many aspects of their business. Companies are trying to cling to oldbusiness models and simply overlay new strategies and agile ways of working, and thatmakes for incredible complexity. We’ve still got businesses that are structured in silos, andyet companies are adding multifarious teams that are diffuse and dispersed.

There’s a fear about completely restructuring in a way that would be more suitable fortoday’s environment, because that would mean letting go of some of the core, old ways ofworking. That’s an enormous problem because it leads to people not fully understandingwhat they’re accountable for. As organizations become more fluid, they’re also grapplingwith how to make people individually more accountable. That’s a real problem fororganizations at the moment.

Another cultural issue I warn my clients about is to be wary of black-and-white people.

Q. What does that mean?

A. They’re the people who only see issues in black-and-white terms. Our entire culture –business and social -- encourages people to be very opinionated and to be incredibly directand confident about their views. That’s fine up to a point. But in my experience, issues arenever black-and-white, and people who do think that way are generally naïve or dishonest orboth. I don’t mean fraudulently dishonest, but dishonest in terms of being in denial. I tellclients to be wary of those people, and to be wary of becoming that sort of personthemselves. It creates blind spots and slows them down.

Q. What are the X-factors that separate great CEOs from merely good CEOs?

A. One is the ability to be curious and to truly listen. It’s not about just taking in everyone’sideas and trying to reach consensus. It’s about really hearing what’s being said and askingthe one extra question. The second is a kind of peripheral vision that allows them to see theworld not as contradictions, but as a “both-and.”

The third thing is an ability to manage their time effectively and really focus on whatmatters. I’m surprised at how many really good CEOs don’t manage their time as effectivelyas they could. Some of the most effective ones are not racing from meeting to meeting.They’ve got time for reflection, and they seem to always have time for everyone. Why isthat? It’s because they’re not trying to do more than only they can do.

Q. What are some of the most important leadership lessons that you’ve learned personally?

A. I’ve learned some of the lessons myself that I talked about earlier – about being too loyal,and about the importance of always asking just one more question. For most of us, if we’retold a piece of information, we tend to accept it at face value, particularly if it reinforces ourown belief system. But sometimes, if you ask that one additional question, it can tip a beliefyou have on its head.

Another one I learned through bitter experience is be wary about “running into the fire”alone. I took over the chairmanship of an organization that was in a great crisis. The otherboard members took ten steps back, and I took one forward because I was incrediblydetermined that we were going to rectify what had happened. You might be the best,strongest and most capable person, but you need to make sure that you’ve got people therewho have the capacity, capability, talent and willingness to be there with you.

Q. Where does your drive come from? Is it nature or nurture?

A. I think it’s a combination. My mother would say that it was in me from the start. Of thethree children, she would say that I was the one who was constantly leaning out of my pramtrying to get out and do things.

…

But my parents’ marriage was not a happy one, and my mother had a very strong belief thata woman should never be financially dependent on a man or anyone else. From a very earlyage, I always assumed that I would work and have a career. There’s an optimism andresilience in me, too, that’s made me a bit of an Eveready battery.

Q. Let’s shift to job interviews. If you could only ask someone one question, and then decidebased on their answer whether to hire them, what would the question be?

A. I would probably just ask something about “why?” Why do you do what you do? Iwouldn’t be asking why they are interested in this job. I would just ask them, why are youwho you are? And then just see where they take the answer.

I would be listening for somebody who had done some reflection and learning. Have theythought about who they are and what their purpose is, and why? What kind of leader arethey?

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Christine BEZARDSenior team leader - Human Factors and Ergonomics in design - Systems Engineering

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Thanks for this Insightful article ! « You might be the best, strongest and most capable personne, but you need to make sure that youʼve got people there who have the capacity, capability, talent and willingness to be there with you. » : so true !

Rohit KhotGROUP GENERAL MANAGER at Sharp Middle East, Africa, CIS & Central Asia

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Insightful; thank you for sharing, Adam Bryant (edited)

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Adam Bryant InfluencerManaging Director at Merryck & Co

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Leadership Moments: "When Loyalty IsAll That's Left, Departure is Essential"Published on May 17, 2018

During her extensive C-suite career, my colleague Meredith Hellicar, the CEO ofMerryck & Co. ANZ, has done it all -- worked in multinational public companies aswell as start-ups, served on and chaired boards, and mentored 30 seniorexecutives. In these "Leadership Moments" interviews, I'm asking Merryck'smentors about the key lessons they learned during their careers and their bestmentoring advice. Here's the conversation I had (edited for space) with Hellicar,

which included her provocative advice about knowing when it's time to leave acompany or when it's time to let someone go.

Q. Over the course of mentoring about 30 clients, what are some of the patterns you’veseen?

A. A few themes come up time and again. One would be about grappling for a sense ofpurpose. Most senior executives are very high performers and they’ve moved quicklythrough their careers with a mindset of doing and achieving. Now that they’re leading anorganization or an entire division, they are starting to think more about legacy and purpose.

Q. What do you tell them?

A. My role is to challenge them, to help them work it out, so I ask a lot of questions. Theone thing I do reinforce for them is that they’re asking the right question, that it’s worthspending time on, and that answering it will make a difference to their leadership andeffectiveness, which will flow to the bottom line of the business performance.

Q. So what questions do you ask?

A. Sometimes they think that there’s a contradiction in being so focused on short-termresults while also wondering about their own long-term legacy. So I ask questions to helpthem see that it’s a “both-and” situation, rather than an “either-or.” I ask about their valuesand what they want to be remembered for.

I also ask more immediate questions about the events and interactions that trouble them andwhy, to clarify what’s happening inside them as they encounter different issues. I’ll listen forwords or phrases they use a number of times and ask them to elaborate on what theymean. They have the answers within them -- I just help them connect dots and offerchallenging observations.

Q. Other themes that come up?

A. There is always something about the team. Invariably they have one person on their teamwho really shouldn’t be there, and they know it. I’m always struck by how businesses are sooften portrayed as being hard-hearted and ruthless. But human beings are overly loyal – totheir companies, to the people who work for them, and to their bosses. I have a little saying:“When loyalty is all that’s left, departure is essential.”

Lastly, when a leader tells me their team is working really well together, I wonder what’sreally going on there, because sometimes the leader is averse to generating robust debate.The clue will be that they’re finding it hard to get some things done. That generally is a signthat everybody’s just agreeing to what the leader is saying, or someone else in the room isdominating the discussion and there’s not really robust debate.

Q. You get a window into many corporate cultures through your clients. What are the bigmomentum killers?

A. There’s no doubt that companies are being gummed up by complexity, because of thespeed of change in so many aspects of their business. Companies are trying to cling to oldbusiness models and simply overlay new strategies and agile ways of working, and thatmakes for incredible complexity. We’ve still got businesses that are structured in silos, andyet companies are adding multifarious teams that are diffuse and dispersed.

There’s a fear about completely restructuring in a way that would be more suitable fortoday’s environment, because that would mean letting go of some of the core, old ways ofworking. That’s an enormous problem because it leads to people not fully understandingwhat they’re accountable for. As organizations become more fluid, they’re also grapplingwith how to make people individually more accountable. That’s a real problem fororganizations at the moment.

Another cultural issue I warn my clients about is to be wary of black-and-white people.

Q. What does that mean?

A. They’re the people who only see issues in black-and-white terms. Our entire culture –business and social -- encourages people to be very opinionated and to be incredibly directand confident about their views. That’s fine up to a point. But in my experience, issues arenever black-and-white, and people who do think that way are generally naïve or dishonest orboth. I don’t mean fraudulently dishonest, but dishonest in terms of being in denial. I tellclients to be wary of those people, and to be wary of becoming that sort of personthemselves. It creates blind spots and slows them down.

Q. What are the X-factors that separate great CEOs from merely good CEOs?

A. One is the ability to be curious and to truly listen. It’s not about just taking in everyone’sideas and trying to reach consensus. It’s about really hearing what’s being said and askingthe one extra question. The second is a kind of peripheral vision that allows them to see theworld not as contradictions, but as a “both-and.”

The third thing is an ability to manage their time effectively and really focus on whatmatters. I’m surprised at how many really good CEOs don’t manage their time as effectivelyas they could. Some of the most effective ones are not racing from meeting to meeting.They’ve got time for reflection, and they seem to always have time for everyone. Why isthat? It’s because they’re not trying to do more than only they can do.

Q. What are some of the most important leadership lessons that you’ve learned personally?

A. I’ve learned some of the lessons myself that I talked about earlier – about being too loyal,and about the importance of always asking just one more question. For most of us, if we’re

Messaging

told a piece of information, we tend to accept it at face value, particularly if it reinforces ourown belief system. But sometimes, if you ask that one additional question, it can tip a beliefyou have on its head.

Another one I learned through bitter experience is be wary about “running into the fire”alone. I took over the chairmanship of an organization that was in a great crisis. The otherboard members took ten steps back, and I took one forward because I was incrediblydetermined that we were going to rectify what had happened. You might be the best,strongest and most capable person, but you need to make sure that you’ve got people therewho have the capacity, capability, talent and willingness to be there with you.

Q. Where does your drive come from? Is it nature or nurture?

A. I think it’s a combination. My mother would say that it was in me from the start. Of thethree children, she would say that I was the one who was constantly leaning out of my pramtrying to get out and do things.

But my parents’ marriage was not a happy one, and my mother had a very strong belief thata woman should never be financially dependent on a man or anyone else. From a very earlyage, I always assumed that I would work and have a career. There’s an optimism andresilience in me, too, that’s made me a bit of an Eveready battery.

Q. Let’s shift to job interviews. If you could only ask someone one question, and then decidebased on their answer whether to hire them, what would the question be?

A. I would probably just ask something about “why?” Why do you do what you do? Iwouldn’t be asking why they are interested in this job. I would just ask them, why are youwho you are? And then just see where they take the answer.

I would be listening for somebody who had done some reflection and learning. Have theythought about who they are and what their purpose is, and why? What kind of leader arethey?

Report this