St Ann's Special School

30th October, 2001

ILL I· ILK l, ru-1 Meeting of Wally Conti, Greg Ramm, ~----~· ~. _____ r L__J

Ill ILJ I 1LO !Pauline Verity, Jane Swift and Allan Dooley (Chair)

Allan welcomed and introduced those present.

Wally spoke about Greg's -involvement with Brian Perkins and Robert Hawkes.

Perkins was handled by Darlington CIB. Lenny Mosheev was the questioning

officer.

Elizabeth CIB were chasing Barton. Key players were Hawkes, Glencress, Barton,

Perkins.

Operation Deny then became a combined operation.

Wally said he has some documents from the Department of Public Prosecutions

Office. One is from the arresting officer Lenny Mosheev. On the 21 •1 August 1991

he attended Perkin's home, Unit 19, 93 Folkestone Road, Dover Gardens. Lenny

Mosheev went there with Detective Senior Constable John Cann. No notes were

taken - it was an informal conversation Perkins gave permission for a quick search.

They found a dark room at the back for developing film - full of canisters of film,

photos and slides of naked adults. They located two film contamers fJas on

one and~ and ~ were on another. They took them to the police

photographic section.

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They got the first roll developed; there were 28 coloured photos of~. The

second roll was black and white and these would take two days to develop.

The sequence of dates were wrong in the statement. He says 25/10/91 but it should

be 25/8/91. Lenny Mosheev and Sergeant Clark went to the Blackforest address and

sawlNE f She identified~as hergjson. The police at the house

spoke with~ and ascertained he had been sexually interfered with by Perkins

while he was under 16.

26/8/93 in record should be 26/9/91 - collected rest of photos. They went to Unit 17,

19 Folkestone Road. He had done a bunk. Claude Hammam said Perkins had

contacted the school and said he'd had an accident and would be away for a while.

Lenny Mosheev was hospitalised, life at risk, off work. The file was handed to

Detective Cann. Lenny Mosheev returned to work after four months. Lenny

Mosheev was told Brian Perkins could not be located.

Between May 1993 and September 1993 - David Kellett, Channel 9 News -

contacted the CIB and Kellett handed over wooden box full of film, and photos that

constituted child pornography and included photos of naked children.

The informant was a criminal from the south of Adelaide. This man offered to store

Brian Perkins property. Perkms used to visit the shed and look at his property then

leave.

The informant got concerned and went into the shed with his wife; they saw the

negatives and got upset and decided to contact the police.

Greg did speak to the mformant.

They took boxes of film - about 90 rolls, mostly colour. When they were developed

there were hundreds of photos of children but their identities were not known.

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v

The police knew Brian Perkins was living ma caravan at Christies Beach in his son's

back yard.

They set about trying to identify the children. One photo showed boys in Little

Athletics unifonn . They identifiedlREDACTED I Robert Hawkes was the

ringleader. They identified many children. There was a northern suburbs meeting of

all CIB's. Lenny Mosheev identified ILH I· 60 children still could not be

identified. Each area CIB got a package they could identify.

There was a raid at Brian Perkin's home address 10/9/93. There were 4 raids in

Adelaide on 4 premises and J in Sydney. They took place at 6.30am Adelaide time.

REDACTED

Lenny Mosheev went to Brian Perkins (went with Senior Constables Martin, Feltus

and Blanford) to Hackham West. !REDACTED lcame to

the door (Wally Conti went to the Glencross address).

!REDACTED I showed them to the caravan. Brian Perkins was asleep inside the

caravan. Police told him they had found photos of young boys at Dover Gardens He

was cautioned. Brian did not want to speak. He was shown a general search warrant.

Brian Perkins started to question the previous search. Police searched the caravan

and the shed. Brian Perkins satd the stuff wasn't his, he was looking after the stuff

for someone else.

There were pornographic videos of children - commercially made and purchased.

Some videos were home made.

Wally Conti has recently found the exhibits. There are two big boxes and a rucksack

in pol ice storage. They checked a lot of photos. Not all were pornographic.

Lenny Mosheev spoke w;th Brian Pe,k;ns - he told h;m '°' D and

pornography. He was charged with:

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Inciting child to expose body

• Indecent assault

• Possession of child pornography

He did not want a solicitor. Brian Perkins said he had no comment and was just glad

it's over and was relieved. Brian Perkins was taken to the station to be interviewed.

They got to the police station at 9.20am but Perkins refused to be interviewed on

video. He went on video purely to record a refusal. Brian Perkins was told police

were opposing any bail.

Charged at 9.50am. The charges were under Section 58a:

• Purient interest- induce1~L_H ___ ~lto expose body for his purient interest

• Indecent assault

Possession of child pornography.

1019193 - Pohce refused bail. Remanded in custody 30/9/93. Kejanowski was the

relevant police officer and the magistrate was Ackland.

14/10/93 - appeared before Urdley - Remanded. No mention whether that 1 week

was on bail or in custody. Wally Conti is 90% sure he was given court bail. Greg

thought Perkins approached the supreme court for bail and they granted it.

He was in jail at least until 21110193 and then he would have been allowed bail with

some conditions.

He was remanded to appear at Port Adelaide court but had gone interstate by then.

Brian Perkins has a car registered to Inkaman Street, Home Hill near Ayr - 1 hour

south of Townsville in Queensland (Caravan Park).

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Jn 1998 Greg rang the Ayr CIB. Greg forwarded them a copy of his history. The

CIB is keeping a watch on him.

Greg has applied for extradition. He put in a two page report. The Department of

Public Prosecution here decided not to extradite. If the SA police contact the

Queensland police, they could arrest on a South Australian warrant.

Glencross went to Port Fairy. The magistrate allowed him bail and he skipped bail.

22 April, 1998

Greg put a report in to the Department of Public Prosecution who said they would not

proceed if he were brought back. The Department of Public Prosection have the

overall power and authority. There is no appeal. The government can't direct them.

They look at the probative value - the likelihood of getting a conviction. They

consider the wisdom of putting the children through the trauma of getting evidence.

Lenny Mosheev spoke with~IN_E ___ ~rho said~ had moved on.

Parents expressed grave concern about the effect on their sons.

Possession of Child Pornography is still a summary offence. The same offence m the

USA is life imprisonment- here it's two years.

Wally understands from Lenny Mosheev that he took photos to St Ann's. They were

shown to the principal and/or staff. ILH I was the only student identified. ~----

Lenny Mosheev is in Victoria. They are unclear whether this was after l 019193 or in

1991.

Glencross is highly placed in Riding for the Disabled.

Mako is an organisation that keeps tabs on paedophiles. It caused problems during

the trial but Glencross was eventually convicted with a long sentence.

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Wally said that the photos do not involve cruelty. Some boys are naked, but there is

nothing worse that that, no other cruelty. Bear in mind the magistrate turfed out the

original charges - a boy who was not disabled.

To prosecute Brian Perkins they need evidence. They still have possession of child

pornography. Charges were laid so the warrant is currently endorsed as only to be

executed if he is found in this state. They would need to send photos to Sydney to be

classified. They need permission from the SA Attorney General.

Allan Dooley said he will redraft a letter to the Minister for Education and seek

support to proceed with extradition.

Wally Conti spoke about the role of the media. The Glencross trial was on Channel 9

who were interested through Andy Kellett. The trial was going well. They were

showing segments on Channel 9 news and a photo showed children in bed together

but he was only in court on a charge relating to l child. The barrister applied for a

mistrial. The Judge was forced to throw it out after 7 days in the supreme court.

We'll probably only get one go at this. It is wise to be cautious about the media until

conviction.

Protection of other children important.

Wally said that there are some old historical matters on archive.

Allan summarized some steps for him. Statements need to come in.

Pauline explained the steps under Towards Healing.

EJ- whose responsibility is it to tell other parents that abuse may have happened?

Wally - Can't publicly say this- would lead to mistrial. The last thing they want to do

is cause unfounded despair.

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EJ-~was the favourite. There are parents hurting who won't come foiward,

~nd others, Catholic Education will have to approach them.

Lenny Mosheev and partner spoke to~ and put together a statement. In January

1994 he was interviewed on video. Police still have the tapes. ~1s having an

awful time. ~became a focus through Interpol. There was world wide

distribution of material. ~name was mentioned in the material sent overseas:

it was part of correspondence between paedophiles.

[]= Is~ at risk as his face is well known?

Greg: The ring 1s broken up here and the network in UK has gone.

Wally: Hawkes has a paedophile restraining order against him.

Brian Perkins dare not come anywhere near Adelaide. Paedophiles brag about their

exploits and swap photos. Hawkes and Glencross were recruiting kids from parents.

~ One of his favourite stops was the bushes by the airport.

LM's declaration 24/12/93. He rang the school and told they were told Brian Perkins

rang in and had an accident He wouldn't be m for a few days.

Some photos are poor and are black and white.

Wally: it would give corroboration if parents signed a statement to say their child

/

was in the pictures (Brian Perkins said the photographs were not his but were being

"mmded")

Possible to use INE Ito give evidence that pornography was shots of St Ann's ~---

students where he was associated.

Wally undertook to go through all the photos and check iflLB lis m them. ~----~

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..

EJ asked if a statement from~ould help. Wally said yes if he is verbal.

~aid he wanted to go to the police. ~has a bad gender bias - he will say

whatever a male wants him to say.

IfE:_]subjected to offences after December 1985 there is no limitation of time, rape,

indecent assault, unlawful sexual intercourse.

Wally said the Department for Public Prosecution probably would pursue it, and the

courts will accept signing as a means of communication.

Greg said the police would take a statement if~is willing to give it.

The meeting concluded with Allan thanking everyone for attending and assuring the

parents that we would continue to do all we can to support them.

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