9/1/13 80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

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80 lb red oak board bow #2

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sleek 80 lb red oak board bow #2 Lead [-]

Posts: 1669Jan 11 11 5:01 PM

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Ok, well the osage bow that Mattso just made inspired me to make a bow like it. I also want tomake another red oak board bow to put through tests and see if a board bow can hold up to 80lbs reliably. This will be a build along, and when I have questions, I will try to wait for advice andopinions of those who post before going on. I have a red oak board that is I am going to makeit long enough for my draw length. So... I like to draw 28, so both limbs need to be 28 plus a 4inch handle... thats 59 inches. My other red oak bow was 56 inches.

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9/1/13 80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

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9/1/13 80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

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Last Edited By: sleek Jan 11 11 5:08 PM. Edited 3 times.

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badger5149 #1 [-]

Posts: 5375Jan 11 11 5:04 PM

I think for an 80# red oak bow i would add at least 10" to your 59" length for a 28" draw.Standard formula is more like double draw length plus about 20%. You could make it 59" but itmight need to be close to 4" wide. Steev

9/1/13 80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

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sleek #2 [-]

Posts: 1669Jan 11 11 5:11 PM

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Ok, well the board is 3.5 inches wide. And I dont want to create a huricane of wind every time Ishoot it, so if I make it 2.5 inches wide, how long you reckon it should be? Does the board lookok?

George Tsoukalas #3 [-]

Posts: 4990Jan 11 11 5:40 PM

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Not a good board for 80#. See how the grain s wandering off the board in a few places. There'sprobably more of that and you need all the lines straight tip to tip with no exceptions for aheavy bow. Jawge

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

sleek #4 [-]

Posts: 1669Jan 11 11 6:08 PM

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which picture shows the grain going off the board?

HCOnline #5 [-]

Posts: 109Jan 11 11 6:23 PM

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All of them. I'm no expert, but I strongly recommend that you go to 72" at least for a red oakboard bow at 80#. The added length distributes the stresses of 80# far more gently than a 59"bow.

Silent Bear #6 [-]

Posts: 251Jan 11 11 6:44 PM

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The grain looks a little swirly, personaly I wouldn't try making an 80 pound bow from it at thatshort of length

Salvador 06 #7 [-]

I say you go for it, and if it blows, it blows. The board looks a little wavy, but I think itsexaggerated by the angle of the picture, we're seeing the whole board. I would make a bowfrom that board, maybe not an 80# bow, but I don't make 80# bows. This falls under somethingI mentioned before in a different thread, we are bound by "successful" formulas and rarelyexperiment with extremes. I'm glad you're doing it. Even if it doesn't work out, something will be

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Posts: 2045Jan 11 11 7:14 PM

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experiment with extremes. I'm glad you're doing it. Even if it doesn't work out, something will be

learned or re-learned.

fiddler49 #8 [-]

Posts: 3331Jan 11 11 7:46 PM

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I just built a red oak Mollegabet, 61lbs @28" or 70lbs @ 31" . It is 72" long x 2 3/4" wide. 5"handle and 2" fades for 9" non bending center. 17" working limbs, 13" levers. It has 1 1/2" string follow. It is riff cut with dead straight grain on both sides. This is the bestheaviest red oak bow I've built yet. I got the board from Lowe's but had to go through thewhole pile. it was 3 1/2" x 10 ft, 23 dollars. Your board grain looks too wavy. Find another boardand make it longer. cheers fiddler49

sleek #9 [-]

Posts: 1669Jan 11 11 8:00 PM

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I was thinking that because of the potentialy weak back due to some grain run off, I would nottrap the back very much more than just enough to make a smooth transition from the sides tothe back. I was also thinking I may trap the belly some, I know you dont do that with red oak,but maybe it would stress the back less. I am going to try to build this bow around the swirlingrings, and place the most severe swirl in the handle that way the limbs have the straightestgrain/growth rings. The most ring swirl is going to be at the tips of the limbs where they arentgoing to bend much if at all anyways.Also I thought that the really thick late wood rings wouldadd some strength. Think I can get away with this? By the way, I am only trying to make an 80pounder because I want to see if it can be done, and if not, why. So it doesnt matter if this bowbows up or not, just so long as I can figure out why it did or didnt. But I do want to give it thebest chance possiable.

Last Edited By: sleek Jan 11 11 8:13 PM. Edited 1 times.

HCOnline #10 [-]

Posts: 109Jan 11 11 9:45 PM

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Well, red oak is stronger in tension than compression, so trapping the belly would be a badidea. I saw another thread on trapping, I can't remember where it was on here, but a red oakbow can be trapped such that the back is 2/3, or even a 1/2, of the belly's width and maintainstability in large part because it is stronger in tension than in compression.

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mattso #11 [-]

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Posts: 181Jan 12 11 6:15 AM

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Man thats a great quote from Salvador, "We are bound by successful formulas and rarelyexperiment with extremes." I say you go 56" Long and as wide as you have to to compensate.That shorty felt so good in the field yeterday. And it's realy just the lower limbs that need all thewidth so you wont cause a wind storm with the pyramid outer limbs.

George Tsoukalas #12 [-]

Posts: 4990Jan 12 11 7:22 AM

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sleek, sorry. second to the last. Jawge

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

KeganTheCaveman #13 [-]

Posts: 289Jan 12 11 8:02 AM

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I think if you back it and leave it as wide as possible it would be worth a shot (semi-Ishi style).Maybe not 80#, but plenty hefty I'm sure. If you backed it with a heavy cloth you still wouldn'tbe out that much should it break.

sleek #14 [-]

Posts: 1669Jan 12 11 2:33 PM

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Thanks Jawge. I was under the impression that the growth rings arent the same thing as grain.I thought you could have perfectly straight rings and still have a grain that twist around theboard. So thats why I picked this board. The wood fibers looked like they were straight up anddown the board, even though the rings are not on the face of the board. However the rings arestraight on the narrow side, with no rings pushing up to either face of the board. Am I mistakenthat rings and grain can follow a different path?

HCOnline, I was thinking that even though red oak may be stronger in tension thancompression, with the possiablility of grain run out, the back to this bow may be weaker thannormal, so I wanted to compensate for that on the belly. What I will do then is leave the bellyand back alone, not trap either, but make sure I have well rounded corners.

In consideration of other posting here I will go with a 60 inch bow, and make it 3 inches wide,and taper down to 1 inch at the tips. It will have 8 inch non bending section,leaving 52 inches oflimbs, 26 inches per limb. 2/3 of the limbs will work, making a 17.5 inch working limb and 8.5 inchlever. My goal is still 80 lbs at 28 inches, but because I dont have a scale I may fall a bit aboveor below target weight, but I will get close as possiable.

I am not sure if I will back it. I'm doing this to see how the board takes this stress, A backingmay insure the back doesnt fly apart, but I want to see if it will or not. If it works after about100 shots, I may back it just to be extra safe. I would hate for this bow to break due toimproper handling. I will draw out the design, post it and modify according to post onhere before I start cutting. Just remember, I am trying to make a bow that will function, but alsopushing the extreems in the process. I dont want to play it safe in making this, I want to makethis bow and be smart about it, but I dont want to be in a comfort zone, where I know it willwork. This is for experiment. I am making this bow with different thinking than a bow I reallywant to shoot and enjoy for years.

sleek #15 [-]

Ok, I just did a little experiment with this board. I cut about 4 inches off of the board just aheadof the limb tips to see the ring/grain structure. I then stood that 4 inch piece up and started

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Posts: 1669Jan 12 11 9:50 PM

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of the limb tips to see the ring/grain structure. I then stood that 4 inch piece up and startedspliting 1/4 inch pieces off the side with my knife I had made. The thinking was that any graincurvature would be followed by the split. I then turned the now somewhat slimmer piecelongways and split it completely in half longways. Every split was perfectly straight up anddown, and flat. I think if the grain was running off the split would have followed the grain andnot have been straight. I will say that perhaps I should try a longer piece for this experiment,and I will, maybe a foot long, just to make sure any grain variation becomes obvious. This wouldthem prove to me the quality of board I have I think.

radius #16 [-]

Posts: 1690Jan 13 11 2:31 AM

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best of luck. in the one picture which is horizontal, you can see the tendency of the growth ringsto run upwards? see how that one runs right out of the board? That's what Jawge is talkingabout. If he says it's not a good choice for a heavy bow, listen to him, he has alot of experiencewith red oak board bows and has picked through the pile a million times. I love that little osageholmegaard, too, but that's osage. It outclasses red oak as a bow wood completely. You canmake 80# bows from osage sawdust. But if you want to see what it's like to make and pull 80#bows on a regular basis, you need to find better wood. That's half the fun!

Every now and then someone will pull off a red oak board bow that kicks ass, but that woodscares me. I got some free a few months ago and made a pyramid bow. It was 66" long andlight light light, maybe 30# maximum, and i was nervous every time i drew it. Got rid of thatthing. I think you have a fair piece of wood there. If possible, put the grain run out in the nonbending section.

badger5149 #17 [-]

Posts: 5375Jan 13 11 5:04 AM

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Sleek, I have made plenty of 60# red oak bows that were 2" wide and 60" long so at 3" wideyou have a good chance of hitting it. A little much but very possible. Just monitor the set as youbuild the bow, if it starts to get excessive simply lower the draw weight.

George Tsoukalas #18 [-]

Posts: 4990Jan 13 11 5:31 AM

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leek, I look on the edge too but the edge grain usually mimics the grain of the face. Jawge

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

NTProf #19 [-]

Posts: 226Jan 13 11 6:46 AM

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Some of my best and sturdiest bows have been from red oak boards. I still look for good oneswhen I go by the lumber stacks.

sleek #20 [-]

Posts: 1669

Alright, I now see what everybody is talking about, I see the grain on the narrow side pushingup to the back of the board/bow. I also see that it is more bad on one side than the other. Ihate to do this, but I am thinking of backing the bow now. Backing kind of messes up the heartof this experiment. Will the wood take the stress without breaking, being what I want to findout. Backing it is cheating, but I think still it would be an experiment in tiller, as I am going tomake it bend most where the wood is widest, and least where it is narrowest. I know thatsounds like what everybody does, but my intentions are to make it bend most near the handleas that is the thickest part and reduce the amount of bend as I approach the tips to the point ofno bend in the last 8 inches. I want the wood to work, no useless mass is my goal. Backing it

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Posts: 1669Jan 13 11 9:04 PM

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no bend in the last 8 inches. I want the wood to work, no useless mass is my goal. Backing itwont ruin that part of the experiment. I have jute string that I have used very sucessfully in thepast to lay over large splinters and keep the bow safe. I think that is what I will go with unlessthere are any other sugestions? Here is a pic of half the bow. The line across the top is wherethe limbs will stop bending. Any thoughts, ideas, sugestions, comments, rude remarks???

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