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Speaking personally—withNeil ButcherModupe Irele aa doctoral candidate in Adult Education ,Pennsylvania State University , 110 RackleyBuilding, University Park, PA, 16802–3202 E-mail:Published online: 24 Sep 2009.

To cite this article: Modupe Irele (1999) Speaking personally—with NeilButcher, American Journal of Distance Education, 13:2, 81-85, DOI:10.1080/08923649909527027

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THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF DISTANCE EDUCATIONVol. 13 No. 2 1999

INTERVIEWSpeaking Personally—with NeilButcher

Neil Butcher is the Research Coordinatorand Information Manager of the SouthAfrican Institute of Distance Education(SAIDE). He has worked extensivelywith South Africa's national Departmentof Education and with many of the coun-try's foremost providers of education.Neil also acts as advisor to many ofSouth Africa's national information tech-nology and education projects. He wasrecently asked to sit on the AdvisoryBoard of the World Bank's Global Dis-tance Education Network and tocoordinate the development of its South-ern African Web site. Neil wasinterviewed by Modupe Irele, a doctoralcandidate in Adult Education at ThePennsylvania State University.

Modupe Irele: Neil, could you begin bytelling us about SAIDE and some of theroles you play within the organization?

Neil Butcher: SAIDE is a small non-gov-ernmental organization set up at a largeinternational conference with the expresspurpose of supporting the developmentof quality distance education practices inSouth Africa. We are not an educationalprovider, not having had (nor everintending to have) registered students.Instead, we work at a range of policylevels and in support of a large anddiverse number of educational providers.In both cases, we aim to focus onimproving access to high quality educa-tional opportunities through judicioususe of distance education methods.

Within the organization, I am respon-sible for SAIDE's interventions in higher

education, technology-enhanced learn-ing, and planning and administration ofeducation. Currently, I work with vari-ous institutions of higher education,assisting with institutional transforma-tion efforts that focus on harnessing thepotential of distance education methodsas effectively as possible.

MI: How did you first became involvedwith distance education in South Africa?

NB: My first significant contact with theconcepts and practices of distance educa-tion actually began with my involvementin SAIDE six years ago when I startedconducting a range of research tasks intothe use of technologies in education.This is continuing with my current workfor the South Africa Department of Edu-cation in the areas of distance educationand technology-enhanced learning, help-ing to develop quality standardsframeworks for the former and policypositions for the latter. I am also runningthe Telematics for African DevelopmentConsortium, which is an information net-work designed to keep South Africans intouch with key initiatives taking placewith respect to the use of the Internet tosupport development initiatives.

MI: From what you're saying, I can seethat there have been many developmentsin distance education in South Africa.What challenges do they raise?

NB: Yes, distance education has devel-oped tremendously in South Africa overthe past few years, despite the legacy ofpoor quality educational provision thathas plagued distance education prac-tices in the country. Genuine efforts at

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THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF DISTANCE EDUCATION

transformation have been made by mostof the large distance education providers,and innovative practices using distanceeducation are much more common ineducation and training in South Africathan they were a few years ago. Never-theless, there is still a long way to go, asthe country continues to grapple with anumber of issues, including: 1) the lega-cy of poor quality distance educationpractices; 2) the reality that many peopleare not particularly interested in assuringthe quality of distance education provi-sion (for a range of complicatedreasons); and 3) the practical and logisti-cal difficulties faced by those with agenuine interest in improving quality.

MI: What do you think are some of therelated planning issues, particularly forSouth Africa?

NB: The major planning issue that I seeis that both traditional, face-to-face anddistance education systems are ham-strung mostly by the inflexibility of theirsystems. What I mean is that while mosteducational providers may recognize theneed to adopt new strategies to increaseaccess and effectively compete forresources, they often fail to achieve theirgoals because' their operational andadministrative systems are too rigidlystructured. In South Africa, existingoperational systems are simply notgeared to provide educators the educa-tional freedom they need to makeeffective teaching and learning choices.Thus, flexibility of operational systemsis a necessary prerequisite if educatorsare going to be able to respond to thechanging demands of individuals, com-panies, and governments who are goingto be deciding whether or not to buy aneducational provider's services.

Institutions should restructure theiroperational systems with a view to

providing educators increased flexibilityof choice about how to respond todiverse and changing educationaldemands. The goal should be to createsystems that, without adding administra-tive cost, allow educators to offerstudents rolling enrollment options, post-ponement of studies, and the freedom tostudy at sites that are convenient andaccessible and at times that fit in withtheir lifestyles. They should also providestudents the flexibility to pay at differenttimes and in different ways according tothe obligations created by thoselifestyles. Students should be able to takecourses of differing lengths and accumu-late these toward broader program anddegree qualifications.

MI: These sound like issues that are cur-rently handled by administrators. Whathappens if faculty don't want to be ssd-dled with these new responsibilities? Isthis part of the inflexibility you are talk-ing about?

NB: It very often is. A lot of the resis-tance to change in educational systemscomes from educators and academics,many of whose practices are challengsdand threatened by the scale and extent ofchange currently sweeping through edu-cation systems. Many educators alsohave no interest—often quite under-standably—in grappling with themanagement and financial issues affect-ing education systems. Unfortunately,though, it's going to be more and moredifficult for faculty members to avoid thekinds of responsibilities they are increas-ingly being expected to shoulder. A keychallenge will be to ensure that, as theytake on these responsibilities, systemschange fast enough to enable faculties todeal effectively with the changes.

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INTERVIEW

MI: The growing number of dual-modeinstitutions could be seen as evidence ofincreasing flexibility. Do you considerthis to be a movement in the right direc-tion?

NB: I think dual-mode institutions are alast gasp attempt at maintaining inflexi-bility in educational systems. Thisinflexibility suits many people—educa-tors and administrators—who have avested interest in maintaining systems asthey currently exist. Educationalproviders need to merge all aspects oftheir systems rather than invest moneyinto trying to maintain an artificial andoutdated belief that there are two modesof education.

Initially, distance education methodsof delivery were developed as distinctlydifferent from face-to-face education,with the unfortunate consequence thatthey were regarded as inferior to face-to-face education methods and primarilyused to provide education to those peo-ple denied access to face-to-faceeducation (either because they can'tafford it, or because circumstancesdemand that they study on a part-timebasis). However, awareness is growingof the fact that elements of distance edu-cation have almost always existed inface-to-face programs. Furthermore,educators involved in distance educa-tion are increasingly recognizing theimportance of different types of face-to-face education as structured elements oftheir programs. This renders meaning-less rigid distinctions between the twoforms of delivery. It also leads to animportant conceptual shift. In many cir-cles, the notion of a continuum ofeducational provision has been devel-oped. This continuum contains, as twoimaginary poles, provision solely at adistance and provision which is solelyface-to-face. By re-conceptualizing

methods of educational provision asexisting somewhere on this imaginarycontinuum, certain methods of provisionwill no longer be chosen to the exclusionof others, depending on whether they aredistance or face-to-face education oppor-tunities (as currently happens in SouthAfrican education). Rather, educationalproviders, when constructing courses,will be able to choose from a wide vari-ety those methods that are mostappropriate for the context in which theywill be providing learning opportunities.

MI: I agree that distance education andface-to-face education do not poseeither/or choices, something that is welldocumented in the literature. However,you seem to be suggesting a more inte-grated relationship between the two. Irecently heard you speak of resource-based learning at a seminar sponsored bythe World Bank (Butcher 1999). Is thiswhat you are referring to?

NB: Yes. A logical consequence of thecollapse of distinctions between contactand distance education, together with theincreasingly exciting variety of mediaavailable and the decline in productionand reception costs of these media, is theemergence of resource-based learning.The concept is not new; it is based on theprinciple that educators should select,from the full range of educational provi-sion, those methods most appropriate tothe context in which they are providingeducation. Many of these methods canperform the function of communicatingcurriculum more effectively than talkingteachers. If resource-based learning is tobe implemented successfully in SouthAfrica, it will need to be based on openapproaches to education and informed bymany of the guidelines of well-function-ing distance education programs. Weknow from years of distance education

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practice around the world that the com-ponents of well-functioning distanceeducation focus on issues such as highquality course design and development,counseling and support, quality assur-ance, and effective management.

Resource-based learning is augment-ed by the understanding that managingthe process of learning by using a talkinglecturer is neither educationally norfinancially effective. In essence, thenotion of resource-based learning meansthat a significant but varying proportionof communication between learners andeducators is not face-to-face, but rathertakes place through the use of differenteducational resources—mixing media asnecessary. In this context, the face-to-face contact that does take place wouldnot involve simple transmission ofknowledge from educator to learner.Instead, it can more usefully beemployed to provide various forms oflearner support, for example, tutorials,mentor support, peer group discussion,or practical work.

MI: How is technology facilitating theremoval of these distinctions betweentraditional, face-to-face and distanceeducation?

NB: The growth of new communicationstechnologies has begun to make thenotion of distance difficult to interpret,while at the same time opening up agreater number of financially viablemeans of providing education. The emer-gence of new communicationstechnologies allows for much easier andmore economical production and dissem-ination of knowledge through variousmedia, thus speeding up the emergenceof dual-mode institutions. Informationcommunication technologies make itmore difficult for people to maintainrigid distinctions between distance and

contact education. However, most appli-cations of technology—including use ofthe Web—try harder to replicate face-to-face education than they do to learn fromgood distance education practices. Edu-cators who have to make technologicaldecisions need to ensure that the educa-tional motivations for their choices areparamount.

MI: With the fading of these distinctions,what do you see as the greatest manage-ment and teaching challengesconfronting institutions?

NB: The key challenge, certainly in theSouth African context, goes back toincreasing the flexibility of administra-tive and management systems andspending time understanding where newpotential income streams can be found,without compromising the integrity ofthe educational provider.

MI: In this respect, what role do you seeSAIDE playing in South African educa-tional initiatives in the future?

NB: That 's a difficult question toanswer. SAIDE's direction continues toevolve as the transformation of SouthAfrica's education and training systemunfolds. I think we will stay extensivelyinvolved in a range of policy processes,particularly as these move towards thedifficult processes of policy implementa-tion. We are, however, continuallyexpanding our support services to neweducational providers, many of whomare not part of the traditional educationsystems, and this creates exciting andimportant new challenges. Through allthis, we walk a very fine line betweenbeing a support agency and getting clos-er to the practicalities of educationalimplementation. Underpinning all of ourwork will be a focus on high quality

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INTERVIEW

research, as this is a key need in SouthAfrica at present. While we are notalways sure what the future holds, we aresure that it will be very exciting andrewarding for us and also, we hope, forthose with whom we work.

MI: In conclusion, given the issues dis-cussed here, do you feel that distanceeducation brings any special benefit?

NB: Distance education is primarily ben-eficial as an historical descriptor of arange of educational practices fromwhich all educators can learn importantlessons, regardless of what decisionsthey finally make regarding teaching andlearning strategies. Educational plannersneed to accept that education is contextu-al, and hence, there is no single form or'mode' of education that will solve all

educational problems. Each problem orchallenge needs to be understood in itsown right, and solutions must be devel-oped on the basis of this understanding.

MI: Neil, I'd like to thank you for takingtime to talk with us and for your enlight-ening comments about distanceeducation, both in the South Africancontext and in general. I wish you thevery best.

Modupe Irele

Reference

Butcher, N. 1999. Distance educationand resource-based learning: A con-ceptual overview. Paper presented atWorld Bank Seminar, 8-9 April,Washington, DC.

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