The McElveen Delusion [UPDATED]

7/30/2019 The McElveen Delusion [UPDATED]

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The McElveen Delusion

Rev. FLOYD C McELVEEN

AN ANTI-MORMON

THAT HAS

AUTHORED MORETHAN

ONE MILLION BOOKS!

BUT WHO IS

UNABLE TO READ

AND COMPREHEND

A SIMPLE SENTENCE

IN ENGLISH!


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The McElveen Delusion

A Brief But Robust Examination Of Some Of Floyd C

McElveens Highly DistortedVersion Of Mormonism

By Ronnie Mormon Bray

A Question

Is it fair, is it Christian to examine Floyd C McElveen and to question what

he says about Mormonism?

According To McElveen,1

it is, and so we will.

McElveens book, The Mormon Illusionpreviously published under thetitle, Will The Saints Go Marching In?is an unkind and pejorative work

that makes statements about Mormonism, some of which are true, some of

which are not, and some of which are deliberately slanted contrary to what

they actually represent to make lies from truths. According to the Holy Bible

that is directly condemned by Almighty God.2

For example, McElveen in his The Mormon Illusion [hereafter, FM-TMI],states that Brigham Young failed to mention the first vision.

3

It is true that the thirty-three of Youngs sermons published in the Journalsof Discourses do not broach the subject, but McElveens suggestion thatYoung did not know about the first vision and that he never, ever spoke of it

is ludicrous, because information to the contrary is readily available, and

was readily available in 1997, when TMI was first printed, and in 1998,

when TMI was revised, and 1980, when my personal copy of McElveens

book was re-published.

1Is it fair, is it Christian to examine Joseph Smith and to question Mormonism? FM -TMI, p. 5 He

concludes that it is essential2Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.Exodus 20:16 [AV]

3FM-TMI p. 25


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From his cited sources it is evident that McElveen is simply too lazy in his

research and is content to rest his own case against Mormons and

Mormonism on the Tanners4 prevaricating case, from which he quotesfreely.

McElveen ought to be aware that relying on professional Anti-Mormons,

such as Jerald and Sandra Tanner, James Bjornstad, Dee Jay Nelson, Marvin

W Cowan, Arthur Budvarson, Jerry Urban, Wesley P Walters, Elmar

Anderson, and Wally Tope, etc., means that his statements will only be

reliable if those whose word he takes without questioning are is factual and

reliable, and that when he unquestioningly accepts the word of anarchic

researchers, however well his borrowings from these people fit his own

propositions, he only follow his blind guides down into the murky depths of

their and his mucky ditches.5

When a reverend gentleman tell us that he will,

With Gods help, [] seek to take a fair and honest

look at Joseph Smith, and a few of his teachings as

Scripture and the love of Christ constrain us to do.6

Then we are entitled to expect him to be as good as his word and not to rely

on fallacies, lies, or non-researched material that he has not looked at fairly

and honesty as he assures us he will.

This short article does not deal with the entire content of McElveens book,

The Mormon Illusion,because it would take too much time and occupy toomuch space. But the points that are taken up here, and subjected to fair and

honestscrutiny, will show how far McElveen has managed to drag himself

along in his love for Mormons, and in his striving to be an honest presenter

of Mormonism and Mormons.

Whilst not wishing to present my conclusions before my survey of

McElveens work, I will point out the McElveen does not shrink fromsetting out his conclusion on the first page, and then throwing everything

into the pot that supports his conclusion, and omitting every iota of evidence

4Jerald & Sandra Tanner, Modern Microfilm Co., various publications.

5 they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch

Matthew 15:14; 23:16, 246

FM-TMI, p. 8


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that shows his conclusions to be the product of bias, perjury, and scholarly

mendacity.

I wish I could say that McElveen has done a fair and honest job of

describing Mormonism, as he promised to do. However,. I am forced to

conclude, by the sheer weight of evidence, that he has only managed to

churn out one more shoddy Anti-Mormon book, in the usual fashion of

would-be professional Anti-Mormons, which is by copying what other

professional Anti-Mormon writers have written, and passing their nonsense

of as the truth, which it patently is not, as any fair and honestwriter would

have discovered for themselves. However, history teaches us that fair and

honestdoes notsell Anti-Mormon books. Therefore, Brother Mac writes a

Mac-Book for his Mac-Version of Mac-Mormonism, and the losers are the

Truth, and whoever dips into their pockets to purchase his Satanic Verses.

You find me hard on him? Oh, No, I am not hard on the poor man: merelyrobust!

How sad that McElveens promise to be fair and honest turns out to be

biased and deceitful. But then, Mormons are used to being treated badly by

hostile and abusive Anti-Mormon Mormon-lovers.


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What Brigham Young Knew About the

First Vision?

Fair and HonestMcElveen insists:

"Brigham Young never once mentioned the First

Vision of God the Father and his Son in his 30 years

of preaching as President of the Church."7

To which we are justified in asking him in the manner of Gilbert &

Sullivans comic opera, What never? To which question he makes the

reply,No, never!8This conversation continues:

What never?

Well hardly ever!9

Such a bold statement as McElveen makes regarding Brother Young is easy

to agree with if you dont know any better, and just as easy to disagree withif you do know better.

Reverend McElveen rests his case on wrong material he has found in otherAnti-Mormon works and relies on the gullibility of his readers, from whom

he hopes the true facts are unknown in the first place, and he hopes to keep

them suspended in his darkness, and prays to whomever it is he prays for

support in his egregious error, that no one will make the truth about Brigham

and the First Vision known to his cynically duped customers in the second

place.

Sorry, Floyd. I have done that which you hoped no one would do and

exposed your duplicity in this matter. Perhaps that is why you blush.

Henceforth you will be known as Pink Floyd!

7Op. Cit. p. 25

8Gilbert and Sullivan, HMS Pinafore

9http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-AcMXJUMwkTime 2:06 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-AcMXJUMwkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-AcMXJUMwkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-AcMXJUMwkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-AcMXJUMwk


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The relevant point is not that Mr McElveen says Brigham Young knew

nothing about the First Vision, which he does say, but whether Brigham

Young did know about the First Vision and preached about it.

The evidence is big, bright, and bold that Brigham Young not only knew

about the First Vision in which the Father and the Son appeared to Joseph

Smith, but that he often referred to it when it was part of the subject of one

of his sermons.

First, to McElveens use of Tanners material. The red ellipses, thus, ,

indicate where McElveen, following the Tanners sneering practice,10 leaves

out essential words that, when put back into place, change the meaning

entirely. For example, the Tanners said of Youngs statement:

Mormon scholars have been unable to locate anysermon by Brigham Young in which he identifies the

personages as God the Father and His Son Jesus

Christ. As we have shown before, in one sermon

Brigham Young said that The Lord did not come

But he did send his angel to this same obscure person,

Joseph Smith jun., (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2,

p. 171)

Take note of the ellipses because they are omissions whose inclusion is

necessary to recognise the sense of what Brigham Young was saying. After

posting their disembowelled extract from Young, the Tanners continue:

Here we have it from the lips of Brigham Young that

The Lord did not come, to Joseph Smith. But He

did send His angel, to Joseph Smith. Leading us to

believe that Brigham thought that the angel informed

him that he should not join any of the religious sects.

Reading this, I was reminded of the mischievous boy that glues together

several pages of the parsons Holy Bible. When the parson rose to sermonise

he began reading,

10 if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Matthew 15:14


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And God made man in his own image, [here, he turned all the stuck-

together pages and continued reading without pause], and he was thirty

cubits long, and tarred inside and out with pitch. Somewhat confused, he

said, Well, brothers and sisters, I have never seen that before, but since it isin the Bible it must be true, and it goes to show how wonderfully and

marvellously made we are!

With regard to their accuracy, the parson in the story and Parson McElveen

are a pair of brothers. You can make almost anything mean almost anything

it isnt meant to mean if you are cunning enough to know what to leave out.

Now, lets look at the entire quote from Brigham Young with the missingportions sliced outby the Tanners editorialising scissors shown here in red:

The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven, in power and great

glory, nor send His messengers panoplied with aught else than the truth of

heaven, to communicate to the meek the lowly, the youth of humble origin,the sincere enquirer after the knowledge of God. But He did send His angel

to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith Jun., who afterwards became a

Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join

any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they

were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had

a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful beforeHim.(Journal of Discourses 2:170-171)

11

What a difference it makes when the whole of Youngs statement isprovided. Brigham does not say that the Lord never came. He said that the

Lord Jesus did not come with the armies of heaven, in power and great

glory. In other words, He didnt come with in a grand display of his

kingship and power. The circumstances of the coming of the father and the

Son were witnessed only by their chosen vessel, in a sacred place, and out of

the view of those for whom this First Vision was not intended to inform.

When we look closer at Brighams words, we find that he expressly says thatthe Lord didcome. The Lord informed him [it was not the angel that

told Joseph, read the sentence], But He [referring to the Lord] did [later]

11Cited in:http://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-

first-vision?
http://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-first-visionhttp://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-first-visionhttp://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-first-visionhttp://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-first-visionhttp://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-first-visionhttp://www.fairlds.org/authors/misc/ask-the-apologist-did-early-lds-leaders-misunderstand-the-first-vision


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send His angelAND [He, meaning the Lord] informed him [meaning

Joseph Smith]

When read by someone with a reasonable education who is not trying to

twist, distort, and wrest simple words into a trap by fools,12

then Brighamswords take on their intended meaning, and we are left wondering What kind

of person mangles truth to make it make a lie so that he can make money

from his trashy books, and what kind of person warms over and reproduces

the first persons lies in an equally evil way without taking the trouble tocheck it for themselves and not insult their readers by their deliberately

manufactured falsehoods? Not a Christian, because McElveen tells us that

John 7:24 tells Christians to judge righteous

judgement, not according to appearance but

according to the Word of God.13

Clearly, McElveen indulges in something for which he says that he and the

Word of God find sinful, and that is hypocrisy!

McElveen apparently gets his authority to lie about Mormons and

Mormonism from his belief that it is tragic today that some of us

Christians in the name of love have withheld the truth from those in error,

lest we offend, or because we did not love enough.14

What, we are entitled to ask, is the notion that makes a person tell lies about

those they profess to love? Since God is Love, and lying is not loving, then

how do we not identify hatred as the prevailing and motivating emotion

behind Rev. McElveens out-and-out lies about Mormonism and Mormons.

Unintended misunderstandings arise for a variety of reasons. However, when

a critic tells us that he can look critically at the religion of another person

only after he has first looked very critically at his own religion,15

then we

are right to observe that McElveen didnt look critically enough at his

personal religious practices nor find it lacking where he considers it grants

him permission to manufacture lies and perseverate the lies of others in

12Rudyard Kiplings poem, IF

13FM-TMI, p. 6

14Ibid. p. 6

15Ibid. p. 6


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pursuit of an enemy, especially whilst vaunting mawkish love for his prey as

he continues the hunt.

In one of my favourite comic operas, Iolanthe, William Schwenke Gilbert,

the lyricist, has a group of Lords misunderstand the words of Iolanthe, as she

consoles her heartbroken son, Strephon, the shepherd lad cum fry:

When tempests wreck thy bark,

And all is drear and dark,

If thou shouldst need an ark,

I'll give thee one!

When Phyllis, Strephons intended bride, asks, What was that? LordTolloller, an elderly peer of the realm, transmits Iolanthes words to as:

I heard the minx remark,she'd meet him after dark

inside St. James's Park

and give him one!

While we understandably forgive the doddering peer for mishearing

Iolanthes words and repeating them to Phyllis as though they were true, we

find ourselves with less latitude for understanding why the Tanners and their

sycophantic cohort, Floyd McElveen, acting, we are assured, with concern

and candor,16

feel at liberty to imitate preposterous figures in a comic

operetta and then expect us to take them seriously, and charge us for making

us into gullible fools!

But, how are we to take seriously a man whose website makes for him a

claim that is impossible?

Floyd C McElveen has also authored well over 1 million books17

16FM-TMI, jacket blurb, Regal Books, CA

17www.goodnewsforlds.com


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Floyd C McElveen

has authored more than a million books!

Has McElveen really authored more than a million books? A websitesupporting McElveen makes this amazing claim:

Floyd C. McElveen, better known as "Brother Mac," grew up in

Mississippi religious but was lost. Graduating from Western

Baptist Seminary in Portland, Oregon, he then moved to Alaska as

a missionary for 14 years. Brother Mac has started Churches in

Alaska, Idaho and Washington and was a National Evangelist for

the CBHMS. He has also authored well over 1 million books inprint and urgently seeks to get every Christian to be a soul-winner,

"From henceforth thou shalt catch men." Though I am nothing,

and can do nothing without Christ and I praise God for 1 Jn. 5:13!

Brother Mac has enjoyed 58 wonderful years of marriage and has

3 sons and 1 daughter.18[Emphasis added]

A Little Simple Arithmetic

Authoring more than a million books is a prodigious amount of writing. If

Brother Mac were 100 years old, he would have to have written an average

of ten thousand books in each of those hundred years, including those years

before he learned to write or developed a vocabulary.

That works out to an average of more than twenty-seven books every day

that he was alive at a rate of more than one an hour without taking time to

eat, drink, sleep, or do anything else.

Truly, if this is actually so, and McElveen must believe it is, then we findhim to be a miraculous man and one that has broken all known records for

literary output.

18http://www.goodnewsforlds.com/bios/floyd-c-mcelveen.html
http://www.goodnewsforlds.com/bios/floyd-c-mcelveen.htmlhttp://www.goodnewsforlds.com/bios/floyd-c-mcelveen.htmlhttp://www.goodnewsforlds.com/bios/floyd-c-mcelveen.htmlhttp://www.goodnewsforlds.com/bios/floyd-c-mcelveen.html


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McElveen Rearranges

The Date of the First Vision

One more dip into McElveens bran tub19 and we find that he insists thatJoseph was seventeen when he experienced the First Vision.

Orville Spencer, a leading Mormon in the early

church, wrote a letter from Nauvoo, Illinois, in 1842,

stating, Joseph Smith, when the great designs of

heaven were first made known to him, was not far

from the age of seventeen.20

In the preceding sentence to Spencers statement, McElveen lays out his stallso that we cannot misunderstand to what event he refers.

The vision we are discussing was plainly declared,

by Joseph Smith himself and by other Mormon

authorities, to be the First Vision. We must face

reality, gently, but firmly.21

He the inserts Spencers statement as proof that Mormon believed the FirstVision took place when Joseph Smith was seventeen.

The only difficulty reasonable people will have with McElveensjuxtaposition of the one with the other so that he can rely on Spencer to

support his theory is that Spencer nowhere mentions the First Vision, nor

doe his text indicate that the First Vision is the event to which he refers. This

is what Spencer wrote.

Joseph Smith when the great designs of heaven were

first made known to him was not far from the age ofseventeen. From that time to this he has had much

said about him both of a favourable and unfavourable

19Tubs filled with bran in which are hidden trinkets. A lucky dip.

20McElveen, Op. Cit. p. 26

21Ibid. p. 26prior paragraph.


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nature I shall only speak of his character as I believe

it to be from an intimate acquaintance of more than

one year and from an intimate acquaintance with

those who have been with him many years no man is

more narrowly watched by friends and enemies thanJoseph Smith. Consequently, if he were as good a

man as any prophet that has preceded him he would

have as violent enemies as others have had

What could Spencer have had in mind when he wrote that? Did anything

happen when Joseph was seventeen that would fit Spencers description of

the great designs of heaven [that]were first made known to him?

Joseph Smith when the great designs of heaven werefirst made known to him was not far from the age of

seventeen.

Let us recollect the salient features of Josephs First Vision. Joseph said:

In accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to thewoods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day,

early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in

my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I hadnever as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.

After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go,having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and

began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so,

when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely

overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my

tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it

seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the powerof this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was

ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction--not to an

imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen

world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any


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being--just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over

my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it

fell upon me.

It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy whichheld me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose

brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One

of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--

"This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!"

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sectswas right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get

possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages

who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this

time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which Ishould join.

I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and

the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an

abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they

draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach

for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but

they deny the power thereof."

He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things didhe say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself

again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the

light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I

went home.

From Josephs account it is evident that Joseph was instructed to join nochurch, and the reason for this is given by Jesus; they were corrupt. By this,

Joseph understood Jesus to mean that they did not have the pure, true

doctrine that is found in the Church of Jesus Christ. Accordingly, Joseph didnot join himself, nor did he seek to join himself, to any church.

It is apparent that during the First Vision, the great designs of heavenwerenot revealed to young Joseph Smith. That being so, when were the great

designs of heaven revealed to him?


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The Great Designs of Heaven

In his History, Joseph Smith details certain other events in addition to the

First Vision. I highlight the essentials in his account that can be described asthe great designs of heaven,and then do a little more simple arithmetic.

27 I continued to pursue my common vocations in life until the twenty-first of

September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-three, all the time

suffering severe persecution at the hands of all classes of men, both

religious and irreligious, because I continued to affirm that I had seen a

vision. [Emphasis added]

28 During the space of time which intervened between the time I had the vision and the year eighteen hundred and

twenty-threehaving been forbidden to join any of the religious sects of the day, and being of very tender years, andpersecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be

deluded to have endeavoured in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed meI was left to all kinds of

temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, I frequently fell into many foolish errors, and displayed the

weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive

in the sight of God. In making this confession, no one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins. A

disposition to commit such was never in my nature. But I was guilty of levity, and sometimes associated with jovial

company, etc., not consistent with that character which ought to be maintained by one who was called of God as I had

been. But this will not seem very strange to any one who recollects my youth, and is acquainted with my native cheery

temperament.

29 In consequence of these things, I often felt condemned for my weakness and imperfections; when, on the evening of

the above-mentioned twenty-first of September, after I had retired to my bed for the night, I betook myself to prayer and

supplication to Almighty God for forgiveness of all my sins and follies, and also for a manifestation to me, that I might

know of my state and standing before him; for I had full confidence in obtaining a divine manifestation, as I previously

had one.

30 While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light

appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was

lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my

bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor.

31 He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor

do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked,

and his arms also, a little above the wrist; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His

head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I

could see into his bosom.

32 Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his

countenance truly like lightning. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his

person. When I first looked upon him, I was afraid; but the fear soon left me.

33 He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent

from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God

had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil


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among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and

evil spoken of among all people.

34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an

account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from

whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel

was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;

35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bowsand these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is

called the Urim and Thummimdeposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what

constituted seers in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating thebook.

36 After telling me these things, he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Old Testament. He first quoted part of

the third chapter of Malachi; and he quoted also the fourth or last chapter of the same prophecy, though with a little

variation from the way it reads in our Bibles. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it

thus:

37 For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burnas stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

38 And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the

prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

39 He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the

fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly

wasted at his coming.

40 In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also

the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said

that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when they who would not hear his voice should be cut offfrom among the people, but soon would come.

41 He also quoted the second chapter of Joel, from the twenty-eighth verse to the last. He also said that this was notyet fulfilled, but was soon to be. And he further stated that the fulness of the Gentiles was soon to come in. He quoted

many other passages of scripture, and offered many explanations which cannot be mentioned here.

42 Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spokenfor the time that they should be obtained

was not yet fulfilledI should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; onlyto those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. While he was conversing with

me about the plates, the vision was opened to my mind that I could see the place where the plates were deposited, and

that so clearly and distinctly that I knew the place again when I visited it.

43 After this communication, I saw the light in the room begin to gather immediately around the person of him who

had been speaking to me, and it continued to do so until the room was again left dark, except just around him; when,

instantly I saw, as it were, a conduit open right up into heaven, and he ascended till he entirely disappeared, and the

room was left as it had been before this heavenly light had made its appearance.

44 I lay musing on the singularity of the scene, and marveling greatly at what had been told to me by this

extraordinary messenger; when, in the midst of my meditation, I suddenly discovered that my room was again

beginning to get lighted, and in an instant, as it were, the same heavenly messenger was again by my bedside.

45 He commenced, and again related the very same things which he had done at his first visit, without the least

variation; which having done, he informed me of great judgments which were coming upon the earth, with great

desolations by famine, sword, and pestilence; and that these grievous judgments would come on the earth in this

generation. Having related these things, he again ascended as he had done before.


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46 By this time, so deep were the impressions made on my mind, that sleep had fled from my eyes, and I lay

overwhelmed in astonishment at what I had both seen and heard. But what was my surprise when again I beheld the

same messenger at my bedside, and heard him rehearse or repeat over again to me the same things as before; and

added a caution to me, telling me that Satan would try to tempt me (in consequence of the indigent circumstances of my

fathers family), to get the plates for the purpose of getting rich. This he forbade me, saying that I must have no otherobject in view in getting the plates but to glorify God, and must not be influenced by any other motive than that of

building his kingdom; otherwise I could not get them.

47 After this third visit, he again ascended into heaven as before, and I was again left to ponder on the strangeness of

what I had just experienced; when almost immediately after the heavenly messenger had ascended from me for the

third time, the cock crowed, and I found that day was approaching, so that our interviews must have occupied the

whole of that night.

48 I shortly after arose from my bed, and, as usual, went to the necessary labors of the day; but, in attempting to work

as at other times, I found my strength so exhausted as to render me entirely unable. My father, who was laboring along

with me, discovered something to be wrong with me, and told me to go home. I started with the intention of going to the

house; but, in attempting to cross the fence out of the field where we were, my strength entirely failed me, and I fell

helpless on the ground, and for a time was quite unconscious of anything.

49 The first thing that I can recollect was a voice speaking unto me, calling me by name. I looked up, and beheld the

same messenger standing over my head, surrounded by light as before. He then again related unto me all that he had

related to me the previous night, and commanded me to go to my father and tell him of the vision and commandments

which I had received.

50 I obeyed; I returned to my father in the field, and rehearsed the whole matter to him. He replied to me that it was of

God, and told me to go and do as commanded by the messenger. I left the field, and went to the place where the

messenger had told me the plates were deposited; and owing to the distinctness of the vision which I had had

concerning it, I knew the place the instant that I arrived there.

This account of Josephs visits from the Angel Moroni is much different in

content from the visit of the Father and the Son. In the First Vision, Joseph

had been told whatNOTto dohe must join none of the churches.

Moronis visits were formulaic in that they contained commissions of what

Joseph was to do in the future. This, clearly, was the beginning of the series

of revelations through which the grand designs of heaven were shown to the

Boy Prophet.

1. God had a work for me to do.2. News of him would spread throughout the world.3. He was to find and translate a hidden book of scripture that would

confirm that Jesus Christ was the Saviour.

4. Moroni spoke of the restoration of Gods priesthood authority toearth.

5. Moroni indicated that missionary work was to be done to spread thegospel of Christ throughout the world.

6. He told Joseph that God would pour out his judgements with powerupon the earth.


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7. Satan would tempt him to convert the golden plates into cash becauseof his familys poverty.

The visitations of Moroni were sufficiently detailed to allow us to refer to

their content as the great designs of heaven, and are, doubtless, the eventsto which Brother Spencer refers in his letter.

Joseph Smith when the great designs of heaven were first made known tohim was not far from the age of seventeen.

In his famous Wentworth Letter, Joseph Smith made the following statement

regarding what was transmitted to him by the Angel Moroni:

This messenger proclaimed himself to be an angel of God sent to bring the

joyful tidings, that the covenant which God made with ancient Israel was athand to be fulfilled, that the preparatory work for the second coming of the

Messiah was speedily to commence; that the time was at hand for the gospel

in all its fullness to be preached in power unto all nations that a people

might be prepared for the millennial reign.

I was informed that I was chosen to be an instrument in the hands of Godto bring aboutsome of his purposes in this glorious dispensation.

22

Clearly, Great Designs of Heaven!

22The Wentworth Letter, was a letter written in 1842 by Joseph Smith, Jr. to "Long" John Wentworth,

editor and proprietor of the Chicago Democratin response to Wentworth's inquiry on behalf of a friend

who was writing a history of New Hampshire. The letter was first published on March 1, 1842 in the

Latter-day Saints Times and Seasons, Nauvoo, IL.


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A Little More Simple Arithmetic

Joseph Smith was born on 23rd

December of 1805. Moronis visit took

place on 21st

September, 1823. Therefore, at the time when the greatdesigns of heaven were first made known to him, Joseph was two months

and two days short of being eighteen years of age, that is, he was seventeen.

Clearly, Spencer was not referring to the First Vision. Had he been so doing,

he would have said so.

What do we know about Brother Orville Spencer that makes us consider him

a man of intellect and integrity?

The Latter-day Saints Millennial Star, volume 4, carries the letter fromSpencer in which his statement about Joseph and the great designs of

Heaven appear.

Orville Spencer was a graduate of Union College

New York and [had] for many years respectable

standing as a minister in the Baptist Church and

[was] generally known in the New England states.


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Watch Out For Ellipses!

McElveen cites the Tanners who cite a report that appeared in Messenger

and Advocate volume 1, pp. 79-79, that reports of a vision were given.Following this, McElveen offers a confused medley of supposed

contradictions, but it is clear that when the historical procession of certain

visions is known, then this confusion disappears.

McElveen casts doubt on the revival having taken place when Joseph says it

did.

reports of a vision were given, as proven from the Messenger andAdvocate, volume 1, pages 79, 79, referring to a revival that is supposed to

have taken place in and around Palmyra, New York, at about the time of

Joseph Smiths vision. While this excitement continued, he continued tocall upon the Lord in secret for a full manifestation of divine approbation

and for, to him, the all important information if a supreme being did exist, to

have an assurance that he was accepted of Him. [Now follows one of

McElveens famous ellipses!] On the evening of the 21st

of September

1823, previous to retiring to rest, our brothers mind was unusually wroughtupon the subject that had so long agitated his mindhis heart was drawn outin fervent prayer [ellipse warning!] while continuing in prayer for a

manifestation in some way that his sins were forgiven; endeavoring toexercise faith in the Scriptures, on a sudden a light like that of day, only of a

purer and more glorious appearance and brightness, burst into the room

[ellipse warning!] and in a moment a personage stood before him [ellipse

warning!] he heard him declare himself to be a messenger sent by the

commandment of the Lord, to deliver a special message, and to witness to

him that his sins were forgiven.23

23FM-TMI, p. 26, citing Messenger & Advocate, Vol 1, pp. 78-79


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Floyd McElveens Confusion of Two

Discrete Visions

McElveen, in company with many others, confuses two separate visions, theFirst Vision and the Visit of the Angel Moroni, hence their confusion. Let

us briefly examine the elements of two visions.

The First Vision - 1820

A revival stirred in him a desire to know forhimself of the certainty and reality of pure andholy religion.

Desired to know if a Supreme Being did exist,and wanted manifestation that his sins wereforgiven.

Age 14 (1820) He was in a grove of trees behind his home Vision of God the Father and Jesus Christ Told not to join any church

The Visit of Moroni - 1823

Age 17 (1823) He was in his bedroom Vision of an angel Told sins were forgiven and Lord would do a work

through him

Told about gold plates and their location I often felt condemned for my weakness and

imperfections; when, on the evening of the above-

mentioned twenty-first of September, after I had

retired to my bed for the night, I betook myself to

prayer and supplication to Almighty God for

forgiveness of all my sins and follies, and also for

a manifestation to me, that I might know of mystate and standing before him; for I had full

confidence in obtaining a divine manifestation, as

I previously had one. [Emphasis added]

The First Vision - 1820 The Visit of Angel Moroni - 1823


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McElveen and others rest their insistence that the First Vision could not have

taken place in 1820 because there was no revival in the area at that time.

However, this is not true. There were revivals during this year, and they are

well documented.

"In religion, optimism took the form of belief in an

early millennium. Just as the American political

system would lead the to equality and justice, so

would American revivals inaugurate the thousand

years' reign of Christ on earth before the Second

Coming and the end of the world"24

Religious revivals swept through western New York in the early years of thenineteenth century.

25Joseph Smith was deeply influenced by these revivals.

In the first half of the 19th century, America

experienced a renewed interest in religion.

Contemporaries noted that throughout the United

States revivals of religion were regularly occurring.

The signs of this phenomenon were increasing church

memberships, missionary zeal at home and abroad,

and the proliferation of religious meetings during theweek. Frontier regions in particular were scenes of

the most emotional revivals. Indeed, in Kentucky, the

Rev. James McCready held the first camp meeting in

July of 1800.i Perhaps the most intense and dramatic

example of revivalism, and certainly the best known,

occurred in upstate New York, in "the burnt-over

district." However, like the rest of the nation, New

England too witnessed its share of religiousrevivalism in its many forms.

24Cross, Whitney R, The Burned-over District: The Social and Intellectual History of Enthusiastic

Religion in Western New York, 1800-1850, p. 7925

Wanderer, Amazon reviewer of Cross The Burned Over District


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Participants in revivals ascribed their occurrence and

success to the workings of the Holy Spirit.

Contemporary critics as well as modern historians

have. advanced other explanations. The emotional

need of people living under the rigors of factory life,or those of the frontier, in a society beginning to

undergo profound changes, is a frequently used

explanation for revivalism's popularity. Quite often an

ambitious preacher would latch upon the sudden

death of a child, the spontaneous conversion of some

renowned local reprobate, or some other recent

dramatic event to stir the fear and awe of a people

deemed ripe for a revival.26

The Second Great Awakening was a Protestant revival movement duringthe early 19th century in the United States. The movement began around

1790, gained momentum by 1800, and, after 1820 membership rose rapidly

among Baptist and Methodist congregations, whose preachers led the

movement.27

Considering that Whitney R Cross book was published in 1950, andMcElveens was not published until 1975, it seems strange that a man that

claims to have looked critically at Mormonism failed to find the importanthistorical contribution of Cross, and others, that refutes his own findings,

although the information had been available for a quarter of a century. How

strange that this did not find its way into McElveens book. We are wellwithin our rights to question how hard he tried to find contrary information

to that which he so readily accepted from Anti-Mormons apparently without

feeling the need to examine his hearts and question his motives for these

omissions.

Joseph Smith tells his own story and prefaces the appearance of the AngelMoroni by writing:

26www.teachushistory.org

27Nancy Cott, Young Women in the Great Awakening in New England, Feminist Studies 3, no. 1/2

(Autumn 1975): p. 15
http://www.teachushistory.org/http://www.teachushistory.org/


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29 In consequence of these things, I often felt condemned for my weaknessand imperfections; when, on the evening of the above-mentioned twenty-first

of September, after I had retired to my bed for the night, I betook myself to

prayer and supplication to Almighty God for forgiveness of all my sins and

follies, and also for a manifestation to me, that I might know of my state and

standing before him; for I had full confidence in obtaining a divine

manifestation, as I previously had one.

Clearly, this was not the prelude to the First Vision, for he says he had

previously had a divine manifestation. That manifestation took place in what

is known as the Sacred Grove, in 1820, when Joseph was 14. Case closed!

McElveens final paragraph begins, Real love cares enough to tell the

truth.28

That being so, we are well within the function of the authority of love,to

take Reverend McElveen to task for his efforts to imitate earlier Anti-

Mormons in a spirit that show no heart, no mercy, no goodness, no love,

which are the fundamental essences of practical Christianity.

28FM-TMI, p. 204


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Costly Versus Cheap Grace

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness withoutrequiring repentance, baptism without church

discipline, communion without confession. Cheap

grace is grace withoutdiscipleship, grace without the

cross, Grace without Jesus Christ.29

In other words, Cheap Grace is to hear the gospel preached as follows:

Of course you have sinned, but now everything is

forgiven, so you can stay as you are and enjoy the

consolations of forgiveness.

The main defect of such a proclamation is that it contains no demand for

discipleship. In contrast to this is Costly Grace:

confronts us as a gracious call to follow Jesus, it

comes as a word of forgiveness to the broken spirit

and the contrite heart. It is costly because it compelsa man to submit to the yoke of Christ and follow him;

it is grace because Jesus says: My yoke is easy and

my burden is light.

Bonheoffer argued that as Christianity spread, the Church became

increasingly secularised, accommodating the demands of obedience toJesus to the lesser requirements of a society in which faith became

weakened to the point where it was something parsons talked about and

people listened to, but few did anything with their faith, and so the light oftheir faith dimmed and failed. In this way, the world was Christianised,

and grace became its common property.

The hazard of this was that the gospel was cheapened, and the necessity of

obedience to the living Christ was misplaced and lost under a thick coating

29Dietrich Bonheoffer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptismhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communion_%28Christian%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession_%28religion%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_%28Christianity%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospelhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospelhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_%28Christianity%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession_%28religion%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communion_%28Christian%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism


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of prescription and ceremonial, so that in the end, grace was literally sold for

coin and profit.

But that Cheap Grace is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, nor is it Mormonism,

the Gospel of Jesus Christ restored to a tired and seeking world that has been

led astray by the likes of the Mormon Research Ministry and their efforts to

market their Cheap Grace Hersey, their Cheap Gospel, and their do-nothing

programme oflie back and let Jesus do everything for you, but from, you,

nothing at all is asked or required.

Instant Salvation sits on their market shelves alongside instant coffee, instant

cereal, and instant confusion.

Have they not heard what Jesus warned them of?

Not everyone that calls on my name, Lord, Lord,

shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only those

that do the will of my Father in heaven.

But, Lord, we have done wonderful things in your

name! You cant not let us in!

And then shall I say unto them: Depart from me, Inever knew you, ye workers ofiniquity.

Are you willing to risk it?

As his schoolteachers must often have written on his report card,

Floyd must try harder! 10% = F.

Copyright 20122013Ronnie Bray

MESA, Arizona, USA

Documents

The McElveen Delusion [UPDATED]