The new definition of “good dog” _ _ Ruffly SpeakingRuffly Speaking

8/3/2019 The new definition of good dog _ _ Ruffly SpeakingRuffly Speaking

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The new definition of good dog

Posted onAugust 1, 2011 by rufflyspeaking

Ive been thinking about this a lot today because of something a friend is going through, and

thought it was worth exploring with the group of you.

Ive been interested in dogs long enough, and been reading about them long enough, to have

seen some broad swings in training. Im not talking about positive/negative reinforcement,

though that is certainly the case (and I honestly think its a mistake to see this as a

progression from bad to good its a lot more of a pendulum swing, and I would predict

things will move back the other way in the next twenty or so years); what I mean is a change

in the definition of the well-trained dog.

It has historically been the case that training was a preparation for the dog to work a job; you

were teaching the dog the vocabulary it needed for its role in life. The basic stuff was all the

same whether herding or protecting or sending messages or a hundred other things, dogs

need to not run off on their own, need to come when called, need to stay close to a handler,

need to pick up and carry stuff when asked. So thats what basic training was heel and sit

and down and stay and so on. A few people got very interested in doing those basic

exercises super well, which is where competitive obedience comes from competitive

obedience is like compulsory figures in figure skating. Youre doing a few simple things with a

very, very high degree of style and consistency.


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But whether the commands were done at that very high level or on a more normal level, the

goal was never to be that the dog just did THAT. It was supposed to lead to a life with a dog

that was just a normal life where the dog did stuff. Its sort of like teaching a toddler what the

word cup and then cupboard means you dont do it so you can say cup! cupboard!

when the kid is eighteen years old. You do it so you can say Hey, go get me some coffee

when youre in the kitchen. The basic commands for a dog were in order to facilitate a day

where you go move a bunch of sheep, or walk down a dangerous street and collect rent, or

deliver milk, or patrol a wall. Stay was stay there and dont move so I dont get shot whenI peer around this corner, not an exercise to see how straight the legs were.

When dogs lost their jobs, over the course of the 20th century, for a long time the basic

commands kept their place in training and obedience. You took a puppy to a class that

taught sit and down and stay, and the further classes were refining those same basic

commands. The focus of training became competitive obedience, which I honestly think is

kind of a tragedy because so few of the students would ever go on to compete and we lost

the idea that the commands were part of normal life and not a style exercise.

In maybe the 90s trainers began to realize that the usefulness of a beautiful retrieve and finish

was pretty low in the real world, because nobody was using dogs to send messages to

soldiers anymore (where the dog should quickly deliver the message and then get ready to

run with the soldier to the commanding officer) or in fact to do anything that a retrieve and

finish is good for. Hand me something and then get ready to move was no longer a problem

that anyone was trying to solve.

What people WERE trying to solve were the issues that come when you have a whole bunch

of frustrated dogs living with no exercise in close proximity to other dogs. Because, as you

know, humans have ALSO lost a lot of their jobs. But were still the same inside we still

envision ourselves as hunters or fishers or farmers or explorers or messengers or warriors. And

we buy dogs that satisfy those internal envisionings, not the crappy office job we actually

have. We buy big retrievers and mastiffs and border collies and livestock guards and hunting

dogs, and so do all our neighbors, and then the dogs are living far closer to each other than

theyd ever choose to live and theyre not getting any exercise and they have no job or outlet

and they start acting badly.

So trainers began to try to solve the problems of dogs biting other dogs, dogs pulling on leash,

dogs who didnt get along at the dog park, dogs who werent happy with strangers

approaching them, dogs who were distracted by moving objects, and so on.

The expectation moved from well-trained dogs are useful dogs to well-trained dogs are

endlessly tolerant of absolutely anything and never discipline, punish, or predate on anything.

With this new expectation came new words its FASCINATING. When I do a book search,

from 1800-1980 theres ONE book that uses the phrase dog aggressionthe Monks of New

Skete book that came out in 1978. From 1980 to 2000 there are about a hundred books

using that phrase or close to it. From 2000 to 2011 there are almost a THOUSAND.


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Reactive has exploded; before 2000 it was almost always used positively a dog who has a

quick response time. After 2000 its now in thousands of references to bad dogs, poorly

trained dogs, unsocialized dogs.

There will be more new words I told my friend today that I needed to go copyright motion

insecurity before somebody decides that we have to rename the urge dogs have to chase

moving objects!

I said earlier that I thought it was a tragedy that training didnt move away

from competitive obedience sooner and I do mean that. But I think we may have done an

even bigger disservice to dogs by saying that the new role of the good dog is basically a big

body pillow.

So here are the big questions -

1) Is it in fact normal for dogs to endlessly tolerate everything?

2) Are we insisting that dogs be perfect when theyre not in fact perfect? Where is the place

for the dog whos just plain grouchy, and its not a training error but personality?

3) Are we doing justice to owners by implying that this new expectation of behavior is valid for

all dogs? (To use a specific example, saying that we can help their terrier not chase cats, or

help their chow not react to other dogs.)

4) Why exposure and not avoidance? That is, if you have a dog who lunges at other dogs,

why is the answer to helping that dog (and yes, I do keep putting helping in quotes because

thats how I ALWAYS hear it used now its not training, its helping, implying that the dog

WANTS this help and is incomplete without this help) going out and finding 40 other dogs to

expose the dog to (whether in a class or in a park or whatever) and not avoiding other dogs?

Why is one right and one wrong?

5) Do we need a revival in an understanding of dogginess? (A celebration of Jungian dog

archetypes, if you want to get fancy-dancy?) Can we re-find the validity of the warrior dog,

messenger dog, defender dog, hunting dog in our own backyards?

Talk to me! I am very interested to hear if you think I am completely off-base, or if you have

thoughts to add or ways to solve these problems. Should I start a new blog like the Art of

Manliness called the Art of Dogginess? :) Hmmm primal weekends with dogs howling at the

moon it could work!

You may also enjoy:

How to find a trainer or behaviorist

Adopting a dog from a pound, shelter, or rescue part 3: The first monthTrainin' hatin'


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30 THOUGHTS ON THE NEW DEFINITION OF GOOD DOG

The importance of trusting dogs to understand metacommunication

Dog training: The difference between skill and strategy

This entry was posted in Dog Behavior and Training by rufflyspeaking. Bookmark the

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Miriam Dalfen

onAugust 1, 2011 at 6:29 am said:

Far too many people have a vision of dogs as some sort of animate

stuffed toy, or a Disneyfied semi-person on four legs. They areshocked when the dog actually behaves likelikean animal! And

more specifically, they dont understand their breeds purpose and

cant figure out why theie vicious terrier wants to kill those cute little

squirrels, or their husky drags them down the street and takes off it it

gets loose. We recently had someone posting one a message board

concerned because their puppy was following them everywhere and

because it seemed to be food obsessed (hello, its a Basset Hound,

theyre walking stomachs).

Joanna Kimball


I totally agree, Miriam, and I think its even worse when their trainers

(heck, when the massive community of trainers) supports them in it.

Food obsessed should be struck from the vocabulary forever.

Theyre DOGS, you idiots. For five million years theyve had to bolt as

much food as possible whenever they found it. The ones who DONT

do that are the bizarre anomalies.


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Miriam Dalfen


One of our better Basset trainers believes that Bassets (and other

hounds) are more food obsessed than other dogs because a dog thatwas perpetually hungry would be a more motivated/better hunter.

Miriam Dalfen


You may be able to train some breeds to leave food thats been left on

a counter or table, but with a Basset its much more productive to

simply bang your head against a wall and dont leave stuff within

reach.

Ruth


You should try the standard training regimen with a dog thats not really

food or toy driven. The trainer will look at you like youve grown horns

and insist you must be doing it wrong (the look on her face when she

waived a piece of peperoni in front of his nose and he turned aroundand headed in a different direction was priceless, to be fair to her once

he proved her wrong she coped very well and helped us manage

anyway). Not that he doesnt LOVE peperoni, but thats not enough to

hold his attention when he decides hes not interested.

But no, its not normal for a dog to tolerate everything. The really good

ones allow us to train that into them, and humanity has been breeding

for that for at least a few generations, but no, not even close.

The place for the grumpy dog is with someone who understands that


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avoidance is a valid technique for handling a dog! I think a certain

amount of exposure is nessecary, but avoidance should be used more

often, though it takes an on-the-ball owner/handler to do it properly so

maybe thats why its NOT used more often.

Id love to see more dogs doing things besides just being

companions (not that thats not a huge amount of work sometimes). It

doesnt have to be the traditional doggy tasks, just doing THINGS.Were teaching our puppy to pull a cart, both for use around the

property and for competition, the work does him good, helps keep his

mind going, as well as his body, and once he got over his WTH is that

thats following me?? he seems to enjoy it.

Red Dog Mom


Great post. Ive said for years that you cant expect all dogs to get

along with all other dogs. You dont like every other person you meet

so why should your dog like every dog he or she meets.

Anthropormorphizing doesnt even begin to cover what weve done to

dogs and, yes, Im guilty of it too at times.

Melissa


Its not natural for dogs to accept everything but in todays world its

important that they try. A dog growls at a person and suddenly theyre

dangerous and you have everyone watching them for a mistake and

if one happens the fate of your dog can be out of your hands.

Avoidance isnt a luxury many can afford with the needs today of

having our dogs out and about, taking them everywhere, dog parks,

boarding, pet parties. Lets be honest, the average pet owner isnt

willing to give up their social lives for their dogs.

Should we help a dog overcome its basic instincts, it goes back to

what Ive already said, to be socially acceptable yes, I think so.


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Personally I dont expect my dogs to be perfect but I do try to make

sure they are rounded enough to be acceptable in public as our dogs

cant control others and its our job to keep them safe.

rufflyspeaking


Melissa I absolutely agree that right now dog ownership means all those

things, if youre not willing to move your life around to make your dog(s) happy.

I guess my question would be something like WHY on EARTH do we have

pet parties? The dogs are usually angry, stressed, frustrated, or hugely

overstimulated and crazy; its only for the humans, so why do we tell

ourselves that our dogs should like it? Because we like the thought of it,

because WED like it, and we want our dogs to be the primates that we are.

What I would like to see is somebody saying Wait a sec; this is insane. The

dog at the pet party thats biting every other dog as they run past is the onlyone acting like he should, honestly. Dogs arent supposed to tolerate chaos.

But the biting dog gets cuffed on the side of the head or has an owner

apologizing and stuffing cookies in his mouth to control him.

I think my short answer is that yes, at this point in time thats whats socially

acceptable. And I wonder if theres any way we can change the idea of

whats socially acceptable.

Laurel

onAugust 1, 2011 at 12:33 pm said:

This is a great point. The biggest problem with normal dog behavior is

that humans dont tolerate it. Like Ruth said above, the place for a

dog who doesnt tolerate everything is with the owner whos willing to

give the dog a sane, comprehensible environment. You would not

*believe* how blind people are to dogs extremely clear signals (except

you would, of course), or how unwilling they are to let dogs get out of

situations that scare and worry them.

The best thing we could do for letting dogs be dogs is to teach people

about dog body language and signals. If you can SEE how stressed it

makes your dog to be hugged or be in a chaotic environment or meet

strangers, you can either try to desensitize the dog to that stress or

stop exposing the dog to it. But if you cant see dog behavior, youre

going to keep hugging terrified dogs until one of them bites you.

If you can see dog behavior, you can also figure out what stresses


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YOUR dog, which isnt what stresses everyones dog. My lab mix

loves a party: shes the one at the park whos right in the middle of 7

other dogs playing chase. But shes got a particular kind of goofy-

happy play-motivated personality, and she has really good dog

manners from tons of puppy playtime and growing up around some

cranky older dog-ladies who would have chomped her in a heartbeat if

she forgot who was in charge.

Ruth


Some exposure can help, but you have to be able to tell when

its not helping and when to stop, and so many people cant.

One of the dogs that regularly comes to pulling practices is a

rescue with some dog aggression (and hyperactivity) issues.The owner keeps her well in hand, and seperated from the

other dogs by a bit more than usual, and keeps an very close

eye on her the whole time theyre there. The owner told me

last time they were there that this is pretty much the only

social time she took with the dog because she knows she

can count on the other owners to control THEIR dogs properly

around her. She also told me that the extra exercise from

pulling, as well as the carefully supervised exposure to other

dogs was slowly making a difference in her dog. The dog is

becoming less likely to attempt to jump at or lash out at a dog

passing by, and more tolerant in general of the various dogs

they saw. (She is working with a trainer as well, just in case

anyone was wondering, this was infact the trainers idea.) She

is completely ok with the fact that this will likely never be a dog

she can take to the dog park and let go. All she wants is to

have a bit more control for those times when exposure to

another dog is unavoidable.

I think what shes doing is a perfect example of the right mix of

exposure and avoidance needed to keep the dog under

control.

priscilla babbitt

onAugust 1, 2011 at 7:06 pm

said:

Thanks for this discussion, my carly is a huge puller and


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ive had her in three cgc classes , starting at 4months ,

she is afraid of people so the she always fails the class.

We walk alot, but avoid strangers and if i take her

anywhere i have her on a tight leash. I would keep her

home but she loves to go in the car.. it makes her so

happy and My other one is just the opposite, hes very

social.

I appreciate all the comments about dogs and thereability to or not to conform to Our rules Its bee a very

big challenge for me , since getting a corgi, (my first

dog to live in the house 24/7) ive learned a more than i

ever expected to or thought i needed to know about

dogs in general, Especially this breed.

I sure hope im doing all i can, i wish we had a special

place i could take her to work this energy out and give

her a job off leash but theres none available in my city..

Like someone on her said her instincts are strong ,

much more so than my younger male.. NO amount of

treats or correction keeps her from wanting to pull

when a car drives by, or jump on Frankie to herd him

when they are running. She doesnt forget the things i

have managed to teach her , which all pertain to bad

habits in the house, but on the other hand id love to

see her out where she would have the chance to be

who she is..

Speaking of all the ways to train, i have only been

doing this for a 1 1/2 an my own experiences have

gone from choke the crap out of her to give her a click

and treat!! Infact that first trainer may have been the

reason shes so afraid of strangers?

Way to confuse me trainers! I was as ignorant as they

come when i started and unfortunately i believe she

was my guinea pig. Not a good thing with a strong

willed corgi. having said that i know she is mine i will

never give her up regardless of whether or not she

does what i wish shed do , im here for her and she

feels safe.

Im thankful she is not a bitter, she loves other dogs if

they dont try to dominate , she wants to be the boss,

she is awesome with my family, the grandkids adore

her and she them..

priscilla babbitt

onAugust 1, 2011 at


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11:45 pm said:

Sorry about all the misspelled words, i was in

such a hurry, tending to dogs and a gran-baby.

I hate it when i dont proof read what i write..

MelissaonAugust 1, 2011 at 10:17 am said:

Hollywood (Paris Hiltons poor dogs anyone) along with the fact that so

many people view their dogs as children. I think its great that they

love their pets but too often they forget that they are still dogs, and

need to be treated as such. I celebrate my dogs birthdays with some

venison heart and a photo session. No party, no hats.

But for others their children/ dogs NEED THAT PARTY!!!

As for trainers, take Cesar Millan for example, I think they are givingthe dogs the best chance of surviving their owners. I dont know how

many episodes Ive seen where the owners had no clue at all about

basic dog behavior, so by helping the dog overcome their instincts

and traits the dog has the best chance of having a decent if not

perfect life with the owners .

S


I dont think Cesar Millan has much idea about dog behaviour, considering the

clear stress signs he ignores!

Elaine Axten



11/20

my dog would have a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN if i made her have a party.

shes not antisocial exactly, but she likes people better than dogs, and the

idea of putting her in a place where there was a lot of excited dogs would be

my idea of hell as well as hers.

she would go to a party that involved cats, though. when i take her to the

vets she more or less ignores other dogs, after all she sees dogs all the time,

but CATS! wh00t!!

Rachel


I wanted some time to think about this before I answered, and this is

what I came up with:

No, its not normal for dogs to tolerate everything. Thats why you get

reports of good dogs biting. They were pushed too far. And because

a lot of people work on the no biting EVER and dont work on

teaching bite inhibition (or dont bother teaching the dog anything

beyond dont go in the house), when a dog does bite, the bite does a

lot more damage because the dog doesnt know how much pressure

is too much. Also, the myth that a good dog will tolerate anything

has spread and people will push an uncomfortable dog untill it

becomes a cornered dog, and a cornered dog, with no place to run,

will bite. I dont know wheter these people just cant read dog body

language, or they read it and ignore it, but any dog owner or walker

has stories of people who wont listen when you say Please dont pet

my dog right now. There are also many owners who do very little

training. Not all, but a lot. Dogs who have never learned respect and

have learned that bullying gets them what they want.

I think we do need a revival of knowledge of what is real dog behavior.

There are too many shows where the animals are given human voices

and human wants and desires. Kids grow up seeing these and grow

up into adults who assume their dog or cat or horse thinks just like

they do, wants the same things, and shows emotions the same way.

Not only that, a lot of current dog training is based on out-dated sience

where dogs are equated to wolves, and wolves who were in captivity

and not acting like normal wolves. (Just finished reading Dog Sense by

John Bradshaw. A little scientific but a must read as he covers how

much scientist have learned over the past two decades about how


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dogs think and what motivates them. Sorry for the side track.) So

people are expecting a dog to either act like them and see the world

the way they do, or to follow rules that apply to wolves and captive

wolves at that who are not acting the way they would if given a

choice. Either viewpoint looks at the dog as something other than

what he or she is, and sets up expectations that the dog either cant

meet, or doesnt know how to meet.

KellyK


A revival of knowledge of what is real dog behaviorabsolutely! And I have

had a couple people who get pushy with my dog. It irritates me, it scares her,

no good can possibly come of it. Fortunately, most people I spend time with

on a regular basis know the drill and are willing to give her her space. And

when they do that, she warms up to them.

Anne


What I see a lot of in my training classes is families who just need a

dog they can live with. This means a dog that doesnt potty all over

the house, a dog that doesnt bark loudly all day and disturb the

neighbors, a dog that doesnt pull their arm off when they walk down

the road. I dont think any of these things are too much to ask for, in

ANY breed of dog. Sometimes it means the dogs behavior needs to

change, but sometimes it means the humans need to change what

theyre doing so the dog isnt set up to fail.

We also talk a LOT about communication- what a stressed dog looks

like (time to play some fetch and give up on that down thats not

working out) what play fighting looks like (do NOT pick up Smoochie-

poo, see how her body is relaxed and shes going back for more? The

pit bull is NOT eating her. Theyre wrestling.) and the like. Something I

see a lot of is families from other cultures who are getting their first dog

EVER. They didnt have dogs as children. None of their friends had

dogs. The only dogs were in the street, CERTAINLY not in the house,

so they have no idea what theyre doing. We have to start from


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square one and help them first figure out what they even want out of

their dog, and do the very basics in talking to a dog. Its an

interesting experience, really. I wasnt raised in a particularly doggy

family, but we always had at least one and they were always

reasonably well behaved, so Im always a little amazed at what some

people will be tolerating. The four year old dog thats only mostly

potty trained, for example. Flabbergasting.

Julie E


This is a subject that Ive been thinking about for quite a long while.We have so very many breeds bred for thousands of years to do a

JOB: herding, hunting, verminating, guarding all very intense

activities that really require intense behaviors from our dogs. We also

have become a touchy-feely society that is reluctant to correct our

dogs, our horses, or our children. (There is discipline, and there is

abuse we arent talking abuse, here!) Everything is positive never a

no in sight. (As an aside, I had had to quit one agility club because I

wasnt allowed to say uh-uh to redirect my dog. It made him

confused that I wasnt really communicating with him, and he didntlike the happy-happy, joy-joy method. I am now allowed to stop him

and redirect he is having fun again.)

Modern society, however, really does not need such intense dogs

and thats where many people get into trouble. The vast majority

people dont have flocks of sheep or cattle to herd and guard. Most

people dont have large estates to hunt and guard. We have alarms

systems and pest control companies. We dont spend the day hunting

our dinner any more. We dont need our dogs to help haul in nets of

fish. The vast majority of us no longer fight our dogs in pits. In all the

years that Ive rescued/retrained, the majority of dogs that were given

up were given up for breed-specific behaviors: barking, digging,

herding/nipping, insane and undirected energy. Once the need to

perform a duty was addressed, the behaviors magically became

controlled.

There is great lamentation about the loss of instinctual drive in the

individual breeds of dogs that they have become more generic. We

live in a society that mostly needs companion dogs, not dogs that


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need a physical job. I can definitely see how serious fanciers dont

want to lose the behaviors which are fundamental to their breed

after all, that is as much a part of the standard as coat color, etc. is,

but Im not entirely convinced it is what is best for the average dog in

modern society. I wonder whether it is necessarily a bad thing that a

Labrador is willing to retrieve all daybut doesnt NEED to. Or that a

Sheltie is bred to be quieter and less inclined to bunch up the children

with yaps and circling.

I think because of societal drift towards city life, we have lost our ability

(or indeed the patience to learn how) to read animals. They miss the

stiffened tail, the squared stance, the stink eye or other signals that

communicate play, distress, fear, and so forth. They inadvertently

praise the very behavior they wish to discourage. They feel guilt if they

have to correct. They feel fear that the dog might bite them (valid) or

that the dog may get bitten or hurt (also valid.) I thinks its an excellent

idea for people to learn Primal Dog. Once you understand that, it

becomes relatively easy to find solutions to doggie problems.

Most dogs are not endlessly tolerant, any more than most people. I

see nothing wrong with keeping a curmudgeonly dog away from other

dogs or small children, or terriers away from pocket pets that is a

way to address an issue. It might be the best way for a person without

the knowledge of how to train differently.

While were at it, can we please get rid of the phrase pet parent? Its

driving me nuts

ali


The expectation moved from well-trained dogs are useful dogs to

well-trained dogs are endlessly tolerant of absolutely anything and

never discipline, punish, or predate on anything.

this is the exact concept that I have expressed to people at work. I

am a veterinary technician and dog owner. I think its absolutely

ridiculous that dogs are expected to tolerate anything, without

reaction. For example, i have heard this several times from an owner I

dont CARE what my kid does to the dog, if the dog bites my kid, hes


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over. Can you get any more unrealistic?? At the same time, i also find

it hard to believe that people are so lazy with training their dogs to

withstand certain necessary things, such as toe nail trims. My rationale

is: if we as humans can get a killer whale to open its mouth to brush

its teeth, or train a tiger to hold its leg out for a blood draw..why

cant we train our dogs to? the answer is simple, nowadays people

view their pets as ottomans, no longer objects with a purpose other

than to sit in our living rooms.

KellyK


Wow, thats crazily unrealistic. And itd be so much better to teach the kid to

treat the dog appropriately (and keep them separated as much as possible if

the kid is too young to get that).

Melissa


I have to take a second to curve the topic, used properly a choke

chain is not bad, I train using them and my dogs are far from

traumatized. That said any tool has to be used responsibly.

rufflyspeaking


Absolutely agree. I was ready to jump in and stop it if the thread turned intoanti-training methods, dont worry :). Ive used every collar that exists and am

a firm believer that the best method is the one YOU can do best. There are e-

collar trainers who are the gentlest and most supportive dog-savvy people on

earth and they get fantastic results from their dogs, who are happy and joyful

workers. Ditto with clickers and chokes and prongs and ear pinches and

anything else thats in vogue now or unpopular now. If you can use it well, you

can train a happy dog with it. If you cant use it well, DONT USE IT. Find

something you CAN use well and your dog will do great.


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priscilla babbitt


I still use the choke chain when walking Carly , i have to or she wont

listen at all.. i do think the old school trainer who was our first

experience with the chain, knew how to use it but she was so mean,

she made me cry twice!One vet teck who was teaching the puppy socialization class said

dont do anything thats not fun, well good luck with that.. i ask her

how many dogs she had trained ..zero, she has cats!

I also heard that very sensitive dogs can be traumatized by some

types of training, is this true? Believe me i have read and obviously still

need to read more and listen well. Maybe i getting to old to learn new

tricks..lol

I know i have along way to go with carly and im training a 7month old

as well.. i just want to know im using the correct method so i dontscrew them up more

Reminds me of raising my kids and questioning every move i made,

some choices were good, some were dreadful..

Rachel


From personal experience I would say yes some dogs areeasily traumatized. My dad was trying to train our new dog, we

hadnt had her very long, and were still getting used to her (our

previous dog was, mostly, well trained and the adjustment

from familiar well trained dog to new, knows nothing dog was

a big one. Shagg tolerated a lot, yelling didnt phase him (all

the guys have loud voices and Shagg grew up with us while

we were still learning volume control). Dad caught the new dog

stealing a rather large chicken leg off the counter where it was

thawing and yelled at her. Shagg would have looked and

dropped the chicken (more likely would have left it alone

knowing he would get some later).

Sunshine not only dropped the chicken, she ran and hid under

the furniture and I had to get her out. She avoided Dad for the

rest of the day, and he spent a lot of time soothing her into

trusting him again. Dad hadnt meant to scare her badly, just

startle her into dropping the chicken, but what would barely

bother one dog had this one cowering.

That was the only time he yelled at her like that, it was just the

once a couple years ago, and she has long since forgotten.


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However, had he continued to try training her that way, I think

she would very likely be a wreck. Had she ended up in a

situation where they tried physical punishment, she would likely

have severe behavior problems. I use clicker training, with

appropriate punishments (basically a loud hey when she is

ignoring me) and for her it works great. Other dogs need other

methods and I dont think it hurts to take something from

every kind of training. With us she is now quite confident, evenpushy, but obeys most basic commands except loose leash

walking and lie down.(We are working on those)

LouisatheLast


Actually, to the commenter aboveI dont trim my dogs nails. Not

because Im lazy or unwilling to train him, but simply because I have

bigger issues to work with him on and dont need to provoke him into

hysterics over something like that- he absolutely loathes it. Im workingon training him to file them on a sandpaper-coated board so theyre

a bit less.talon-like.

Arthur is my special boy, and a prime example of this sort of thing.

Hes a pit bull mix of mystery origin, who I acquired from a

neighborhood kid who claimed to have found him. Possible, given the

rough neighborhood, but he was only about five weeks old. Since I did

the things I was supposed to with him (puppy kindergarten, gentle dog

park socialization time, visiting stores) and he still turned out to be very

uncomfortable with new people and very dog aggressive, I can only

assume its genetic or possibly a result of being weaned way too

young. Whatever it is, I struggle a lot with how much I can expect him

to adjust his behavior, and how much Im just going to have to accept.

Ive given up on having him ever interact with strange dogs. My goal is

not to make him dog park ready- its to make him tolerant enough

that other dogs can walk by him without him going berserk. My goal is

not to turn him into a Golden Retriever when it comes to strangers in

the house, but just to get him civil and trustworthy, and not have to


18/20

physically wrestle him into his crate when someone unexpectedly

knocks on the door. And other than those (admittedly fairly major)

problems, hes a near perfect dog: hes polite and attentive when it

comes to food and asking for attention. He cuddles, hes gentle and

patient with my toy poodle, he tolerates and even sometimes seems

to like the cats, and hes not even a bed hog. Hes also the most

genuinely loving dog Ive ever known, when it comes to his family. Yet

I know he fits a lot of peoples definition of a bad dog, because he ismost definitely not ever going to be the dog kids can run up to pet

when hes on a walk.

MelissaonAugust 2, 2011 at 8:54 am said:

I adore the bully breeds, its my firm opinion that they are not

problematic as a breed but due to irresponsible breeding and

ownership get the short end of the stick far too often.

Take a popular classifieds site. Ads on it, English Bulldogs 1507 last

count, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldogges 68, Staffordshire Terriors 1955,

American Pit Bull Terriors 15393 and just for kicks Cardigan Welsh

Corgis 2. Craigslist is swamped with them, shelters are swamped withthem. I have met more aggressive labs and goldens then pit types

but thanks to dog fighter breeders and OMG LETS MAKE

MONEEEEZ breeders they are getting the shaft.

So your dog could very well be an unfortunate by product of bad

breeding, but he was lucky enough to find someone who is willing to

compromise with him.

Sorry for the bully rant but it hits a nerve with me.

Second I WISH more parents would teach their children proper dog

manners. My daughter is only 19 months and already knows to stop

well back from a strange dog and go pet puppy? before putting a

hand near them. Even with my two who would rather lick you to death

before flipping over to demand belly scratches Im half tempted to get

vests saying.NO TOUCH. Evidently small dogs give people the license

to swarm.

Brianna


19/20


The small dog thing drives me crazy. Somehow everyone thinks they can just

swarm and smother them. My parents have two minature dachsunds and a

third almost standard size dachsund. The male standard size adores ALL

people and especially kids, will welcome anyone who approaches, and all

touching and petting. But, they also have one who is extremely afraid of

strange people and will try everything to get away, and the third has a lowthreshold to being touched and handled and her standard reaction is to

nip/bite when that threshhold is exceeded. Luckily, when they walk them and

are often assaulted by people and children who think OMG they are all so

cute, I MUST touch them, they can use Charlie as the shield and sacraficial

PR rep, while sheilding the other two.

Personally, I have a Corgi/JR heinz 57 rescue that loves her family and people

she knows, is essentially indifferent/ignores strangers and is therefore, less

than thrilled to be sidetracked, or touched by them while out and about.

Luckily, she is at least tolerant of any interaction that occurs, but I work to

minize the chance. She also has extremely unpredictable reactions to new

dogs. Sometimes she loves them and wants to run and play, and sometimes

she really cant stand them at all. There is absolutely no pattern I can dicern in

regards to size, or gender, or location that will predict her reaction. She is very

happy never interacting with other dogs, so we dont force the issue. I dont

want to spend my time at the dog park, or god forbid dog parties if she

doesnt.

Paula


I am concerned about all the laws being passed that require dogs to

be perfect. Some places will confiscate and destroy your dog if it kills a

cat or a rabbit. Not all dogs like all other animals. I sometimes think

dog parks are one of the worst ideas ever. Way too many people are

not capable of knowing whether their dogs should be thrown loose in

an area full of strange ones. I too hate the term pet parent. I love my

dogs dearly but I am still their owner.

KellyK



20/20

I think that if your dog kills somebodys pet, you need to be held responsible,

absolutely, but a dog shouldnt be destroyed for doing what a dog does.

Some dogs have a really strong prey drive, and owners of those dogs need to

keep them away from other animals that look like a snack. Personally, Id be

more in favor of fines and restitution (paying any vet bills and the replacement

cost of the other persons pet) the first time something like that happens. After

multiple times, it would certainly get to a point where destroying the dog is the

only option left, but that should only happen after someone has demonstratedrepeatedly that they cant or wont control the dog.

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