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Interview with Teacher from a Secondary School in the E/W Corridor

Speaker Comment

SL Alright. Could you tell me your name and where do you teach?

Teacher Shirley Ramroop at E/W Secondary.

SL Alright. How long have you been teaching there?

Teacher I have been teaching there 9 years now. I have been teaching 26 years now.

SL Or, so you have been in the system long?

Teacher A long time.

SL So teaching 26 years, where?

Teacher Okay well I started in Trinidad and then I left. And I went to St. Vincent and I

lived there for 12 years and then I came back to Trinidad and I taught…Okay so

let’s go ….before I left I taught at Central Junior Secondary, Five Towers Junior

Secondary, St. Augustine Secondary continuation classes, then I went to St.

Vincent and I taught at Comprehensive Campus A & B, then I came back and I

taught at Russell High School, Central Holy, POS High School, and then I

moved to E/W Secondary. [laughter].

SL So you have been teaching 26 years you say?

Teacher Yes, going on 27.

SL The last 6 years at E/W Secondary?

Teacher The last 9.

SL The last 9 and before that you had all those… So you qualified when? You had

your degree from when?

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Teacher From 1990 I had a degree but I taught continuation classes when I entered

University.

SL You went to school where?

Teacher At Tunapuna Government Sec.

SL 5 years?

Teacher 5 years and then A ‘Levels at E/W Secondary.

SL Alright.

Teacher So I have returned.

SL So you…now, which primary school did you go to?

Teacher I went to St. Joseph Muslim League.

SL St. Joseph?

Teacher Muslim League in Curepe.

SL Are you Muslim?

Teacher No [laughter].

SL What religion are you?

Teacher I grew up in a Hindu home but I’m Pentecostal.

SL Alright you grew up in a Hindu home, you are Pentecostal, you went to Muslim

primary…

Teacher [laughter] I am an all round person.

SL Alright. And your parents are what religion? Hindu?

Teacher Yes.

SL And you are now a practicing Pentecostal?

Teacher Pentecostal for the past 11 years.

SL When you were in TML were you practicing Hindu or…?

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Teacher Well I used to go to Mosque out of wanting to learn but I was still a Hindu yes.

SL How you dealt with that?

Teacher We are very open at home. So, I mean my dad was the one who put all his

children through St. Joseph Muslim League because at that point, it was a

really good primary school. So we are not really big on religion as such.

SL Alright. When did teaching enter your head? The idea to become a teacher?

Teacher I think when I was in primary school, my dad used to teach me home on

evenings.

SL Was he a teacher?

Teacher No.

SL What was he?

Teacher He used to work at the Ministry of Agriculture. A supervisor there. But he was

very big on education. Especially his girls. So he would always have sessions

after school with me and he would tutor me really.

SL Other people in the family too? Other children?

Teacher Yes. They are four of us, but I was the last. There was a 10 year gap between the

first and the last. So I really can’t remember too much about the others. But I

know for me, yes. Because before me is a boy and he was bright. He is now an

engineer. So I guess I learnt from him to be intellectual and that kind of thing.

He was a good role model.

SL Your father?

Teacher And my brother. My brother was extremely brilliant person he went Hillview

and so on. So I guess being close to him, I got involved in the whole studying

thing.

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SL Alright and your father taught you? But the idea becoming a teacher?

Teacher I think it started there because when I was in my bedroom alone I would

pretend that I am teaching and that kind of thing. So I guess my admiration for

my dad came. I think the teaching came because of that. ‘Cause I saw him as a

teacher.

SL Other teachers in the system were you inspired by any?

Teacher Yes. My most outstanding teacher was my A ‘Level Geography teacher. Very

much so, big impact. What I consider to be an ideal teacher.

SL So while at E/W secondary …The idea of teaching came into your head all that

time?

Teacher She taught me Geography. So, I did pattern it from her but then I had umm,

Ms. Allison Dowland, who was my Spanish teacher too at A’ Levels she was also

a very good role model. Then I had, in High School I had, my Language

teachers were really good. I had like Mrs. Tewarie and so on. And these were

really good teachers for me. In my view.

SL So you had really positive teachers. When you left A’ Levels, you went to

University and you decided; was it already forgone conclusion in your mind?

Teacher I did play around with becoming a speech therapist because I did mostly

Linguistics more than Spanish. Then I couldn’t get through job wise, so then I

went into the teaching because of that. But as soon as I went into it I knew that

that’s where I was supposed to be. Because I left it for a while to work at BWIA

and the experience, I think I worked at BWIA for 8 or 9 months and the

experience wasn’t that thrilling for me. That’s why I went back into teaching.

SL The first stint was where now?

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Teacher Central Junior

SL Central Junior. And how was that for you now?

Teacher Exciting because I was able to dress up [laughter]. So I was, I think I took a job

as, I just liked to dress, so I think being able to dress like an adult and so on…

SL You were a young person?

Teacher Yes, I was 19.

SL Were there difficulties in adjusting to teaching?

Teacher No, back then teaching was never like this?

SL Because people claim that it is difficult and so on to teach Comprehensive

school and Junior Secs

Teacher No, I think for me because of my personality back then, I was just as childish I

just as they were. So my spirit was like theirs, so I guess I never saw it

as…Some people may have seen it as indiscipline but I never really felt that

pressure when I was teaching.

SL So you were able to, you hadn’t gone to teacher’s College or anything like that?

And you were now, that is your first stint at teaching after a degree?

Teacher Right. Well, except for the Continuation Classes.

SL And you were able to adjust and enjoy it?

Teacher Yes.

SL What were the challenges you say you faced then?

Teacher I was more or less their age. ‘Cause I was very young plus looking younger than

that. Umm, it was bad because, they tend to want to get too friendly because

they didn’t see you as an adult yet. And it was good they identified with me at

that age.

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SL Would you say you were able to help them learn the Spanish?

Teacher Yes I think so. I think if looking back, I think some of the boys especially, I

learnt from the school, they didn’t really want to do the Spanish. They were

doing it. At that point for me, it was more academic. It wasn’t functional

teaching. Because we had no things as scheme of work and that sort of thing.

They just kind of put you in the classroom, give you a whip and give you a

duster and a textbook and that’s it. I didn’t have any, there was no HoD or that

kind of thing. It was really long time teaching. So, you kinda dictate what

happens in your class and how you want it to go and so on. So it was not

demanding like now.

SL Okay so after that experience, Junior Sec, you went on to where?

Teacher To Five Towers Junior Sec. Because I was filling a leave for someone who got

suspended and he came back.

SL And what was that one like?

Teacher Five Towers Junior Sec, I got some problems.

SL What were the kind of problems?

Teacher Students were very disrespectful in the classroom. They were just wild.

SL Central Junior Sec was not like that?

Teacher Umm, no, never. They were unsettled but they were not…

SL What made the difference?

Teacher I honestly, I think is race. I really think so.

SL There were more African children in the East Corridor. So is it race or is it

country and ….

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Teacher Maybe that too but I saw it as race because I was faced now with 90% Africans

in my class. Their value system is different and the way they prioritized was

different from my first experience. So, I had boiled it down to that.

SL Could you develop that? The way they prioritized things would be different. In

what way?

Teacher Education for them was not important. It was a joke, you know, the girls would

go off with their maxi taxi drivers and not come to school. Their parents were

not interested. If I sent home a paper with 10%, they were not coming to see

me. The reports were never given back and so on. The way they address you

too.

SL Did they see you as somebody of a different ethnic group? Was that an issue or

just a ….

Teacher I can’t say that anybody ever told me in my face. I can’t say. But they did see me

too as somebody young and therefore they reacted in the way that I thought

they would.

SL What about the difference between the boys and girls?

Teacher Yes. The girls were very… because I was younger and so on, the girls, I had a

serious problem with because they thought that the boys were attracted to me

and that would have been their boyfriends kinda thing. So the girls were very

threatened.

SL So then they were hostile?

Teacher Yes.

SL And you had difficulty working with them?

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Teacher Yes, they were very, you know. Whatever boyfriend they had in class, if the

boys were responding to me or talking to me, they saw me as a competition.

That was really one of the main things that at Five Towers that I had issues

with. And they didn’t see that I was a teacher and this is a clear cut line. They

just didn’t see it like that. Because the girls were women. They were women.

More or less in their minds. So they saw me on the same level.

SL They were teenagers under 14?

Teacher Yes. Up to Form 3 but mostly, the Form 3s I had a problem with. These are

girls who had babies and kinda thing. So they were pretty grown up. And umm,

it wasn’t only me, all the young teachers had that problem. Because it used to

be a point of discussion in the staffroom. So once you are a dresser, once you

were looking young, you know and the boys were talking to you, the girls had a

problem with that. They were very territorial.

SL Were you able to keep the boys in check?

Teacher Of course. Yes. I am a very strict teacher. As a matter of fact, in Five Towers we

were allowed to beat. And I would whip them on several occasions. Even

though they were taller than me and so on. They had gotten their fair share of

licks. So they knew not to cross boundaries with me at all.

SL After Fiver Towers, you went to where now?

Teacher I went to St. Vincent.

SL And taught where now?

Teacher I taught at View Port Comprehensive A and then they moved me to campus B.

SL Now that is what? That is a…?

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Teacher It is like a Junior Sec, kinda Comprehensive campus. A was 1, 2, and 3. Campus

B was 4,5,6, both years in Form 6.

SL What was that like now? What were the challenges there? You are an outsider

now? How was that working out?

Teacher Loved it, worked out well, I loved teaching even more. I had really a great

experience across there because it was a different kettle of fish.

SL What made it different?

Teacher The administration. To begin with. They were really more human than

Trinidadians.

SL To teachers?

Teacher To teachers, to students, they didn’t see you as “well I am Principal and you

are teacher”. They had their, they were pretty cool about boundaries and that

kind of thing and they were not after you.

So the school functioned really well especially under male administration. I

found it a bit easier because the administration when it’s a male, they…is not

too much talk. Is more like you have your deadlines; you know what you have

to do, go ahead and do it. The females then to get a little more at you. So they

don’t umm,

SL Female as in administrators?

Teacher Yes. They tend to get too. They tie a rope around your neck so to speak about

deadlines and so on. So it was far easier at the beginning.

SL At Central Junior Sec and umm, Five Towers, you were under female

administration?

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Teacher For some time. In Central Junior Sec it had changed from a female to a male.

And in Five Towers it was from a male to a female.

SL After St. Vincent you come back to Trinidad you go where? Senior Comp?

Teacher After St. Vincent, I came back to Trinidad, I went to, I taught privately. I taught

English to Spanish students at an Institute. Then after that, I went to Central

Holy.

SL That was a religious school now.

Teacher That was my Church, yes.

SL Or your Church.

Teacher That was my Pastor. But that was pure coincidence, how I got through.

SL How long you stayed there.

Teacher Maybe just under three terms.

SL A short stay?

Teacher A short stay.

SL So what made you leave?

Teacher Maternity leave. I was just

SL Filling a space?

Teacher Yes.

SL Alright. Was that different to all the others?

Teacher Yes, yes, yes.

SL What was very different to all the others?

Teacher Very rigid. You know Pastor. Perfectionist. So umm, I just adapt to the school

and it was the performance of the students too were…it was really a difference

in terms of their attitudes and so on. Getting back to country side again. It as

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easy. They didn’t have that discipline problem. That aggressive kind of

behaviour as opposed to when I went to the Valley High School after.

SL You went to Valley High, now tell me about that?

Teacher I stayed one term maybe two terms I can’t remember. Very short, went to the

Ministry everyday for a week and cried by Mr. Naidoo. I told him I didn’t fit, I

cannot teach here, I don’t want to teach here and need to leave.

SL What led to all of that?

Teacher Wow. Huh, so many things.

These children were from E/W corridor proper. And just aggressive, racial, no

manners, just…. They were really not receptive to the Spanish. Ah mean when I

taught Form 3s and Form 4s, I teaching Form 1 work. So much that they had to

put two teachers in a classroom. You always had to teach with another teacher.

Team teaching because you had 11 students in a class but it was like having

1100.

SL Alright, so academically it was difficult?

Teacher Difficult. Couldn’t get them to learn.

SL Race as well, they were what? They saw you as East Indian?

Teacher Yes. I never felt it in terms of personally but you would hear them talking about

the Indian teachers and non-Indian teachers and so on.

SL Did they feel or were treated differently by these teachers or?

Teacher I think they were the ones that treated the teachers differently but I never

experienced it though. Because I treat them nicely, so I never got that. They

would pelt stones at teachers and so on. I was speaking to a teacher in the

Courtyard and a stone came flying, very close to this Head and he almost got

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knocked down? They would pelt things at teachers and so on but I never got

that problem. Yes. Really aggressive. You know as a matter of fact one teacher

died on the school compound after stressing out himself, he was screaming at

some girls and whatever and got a heart attack and died. And they were all

laughing and so on. That the kind. They were accustomed with that. So these

are the kinds of students that I had to deal with, which I couldn’t fit into.

SL And you had a lot of experience by then?

Teacher Yes and after coming out from Central Holy to that, I couldn’t do it. That s one

school I could not do it. So it was an awful experience there.

SL Now you went then after Valley High to ….?

teacher Right, when I got a phone call at my home and it was Mrs Radalle from POS

High School, POS. And I was supposed to have an interview with her conducted

in Spanish. She was absolutely determined to find a teacher who was fluent in

Spanish because she wanted somebody for the Form six Department as well. So

I went to the interview and umm, she was impressed and so on and she is the

one who wanted me.

So umm, but Valley High School didn’t want to release me and it was a little tiff

between the two of them but eventually I left. So I went across there where I

felt, I exhaled because that was my style, what I was accustomed to in

Tunapuna Government Sec as a student, I was now experiencing it there. The

organization….

SL There is a school culture that you could identify with…?

Teacher Yes. The whole Assembly thing and so on, I liked it. The students were very

sharp students and I liked the challenge the A ‘Levels, ah mean the Department

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was very challenging but I was flaunting in Language so, it was not an issue for

me. What I had ah... the reason why I left was two reasons.

One, I have a broken leg with steel in it and getting to POS everyday was a

challenge for me, I started to get a lot of pains after a while, the traffic and that

kind of thing. Because the school is so demanding by the time I reach home 10

o’clock in the night sometimes I reach home because I don’t go in traffic hours,

I leave after 6. To get up 4 o’clock again, plus you have to correct work and

these children are bright. You know so it started to take a toll on me.

The second one was I had gotten quite a number of scholarships from my Form

six class, one of them, the girl came a third in the world and I guess because I

was not an “old girl”, not that I was looking for any pat on the back but when

the function came at Queen’s Hall and so on. My name was never mentioned. I

was given no credit and what I found was once you are not an “old girl”, in the

school as a teacher, you didn’t really have a lot of say in a lot of things.

Whereas E/W Secondary is mine because I went there, so my voice is heavier

there. And I think that is why I stayed there for 9 years.

SL So there is a strong culture at this school, so strong it was a bit exclusive?

Teacher Yes. You will never be part of even though I was performing well and so on. You

know you’ll never be a part of… so that feeling of always being outside. It didn’t

go down too well after a while because I was doing a lot for the school.

You know I did a lot of extra curricula activities and took the students to

Margarita and that kind of thing. You know I did a lot. So I decided to give back

to what was mine.

SL So you then left to come to…

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Teacher E/W Secondary.

SL And how is that?

Teacher A roller coaster because we moved from the old school to the big school which

is what my dissertation was about. I didn’t like the feeling, it was too huge. It is

like a Campus and there is still on the East Wing and the West Wing and so on

still buildings going up. Ah think the whole thing was to make it like a

University so you have Departments, so Spanish now will be in one building

and so on.

SL What about behaviour and so on compared to others schools, what was the

social agenda there?

Teacher Well I guess coming from various backgrounds of my children in school, I

would expect the aggressive kind of behaviour sometimes. What I noticed and

even my Dip Ed. lecturer told me that, she said she just find it remarkable how

I have a hold on class management and I can’t tell you why. I don’t know,

maybe, I just don’t have problems with my students in the school.

They gave me the worst classes sometimes because of that but I guess maybe

somewhere inside I have a love for my school so I treat them maybe, better

than I would have throughout the years. Because I feel like they are mine.

‘Cause I came from there. I also try my best to help them and to be there for

them and so on.

SL So you think you could reach them academically?

Teacher I have.

SL Which is a different challenge to POS High for instance?

Teacher Right.

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SL Because it is a different mode of teaching.

SL So you swing back to here and you need to be a little more…what kind of

strategies and so on you think…what makes the difference really? In terms of

teaching, strategy, pedagogy if you had to put a handle on it.

Teacher Well first and foremost, I captured them by taking them to Margarita and I had

Spanish days and Museums and that kind of things.

SL In E/W Secondary here?

Teacher Yes. So brought in a flavor to the school, because the Spanish Department was

empty. It was nothing; I am the one who filled it. I put in scheme of work, it

was empty, it was nothing for me. It was older heads, they are now gone, one of

them left already so I guess they didn’t really have that motivation to carry on.

SL So you took up things and run with them?

Teacher Yes. Basically I changed exams techniques.

SL So you like teaching and you want to see things happen and you really push

things and it has a lot to do with you and your drive?

Teacher Maybe.

SL Yes, that is what I am getting.

Teacher Because so I captured them with that first, Latin dancing classes and all kind of

thing and the students never had before. Because people from what I picked up

when I walked in there, is that the teachers gave up on them.

When I was taking them to Margarita, a teacher came to me personally and

said “good luck to you because you don’t know these children” and I came back

after the trip and I told her “thanks because I saw a part of the children that I

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never thought I would see”. They were actually really nice children; I had no

problems with them.

SL What gives you that ability to see them so?

Teacher Because they are like that.

SL Why others don’t see them so and you get to see them so?

Teacher Because I think children can see when you are genuine or not. I really think

children can see when you want this as a job, when you doing this as job as

opposed to caring about them. Children can see those things very easily. They

know the teachers who come out there just for the salary. And they know the

teachers that will try behind them. Because I don’t get the rudeness, I don’t get

the impolite.

SL Alright so where does this drive come from you to be so missionary about it?

Teacher [pause]

SL When you went to Central Junior you were a young girl who wanted to dress

up. And now I am hearing a full-fledged woman who has a clear idea about

young people and their inner goodness and helping them.

Teacher I think it was my St. Vincent experience. I think it really turned around, ah had

a student of mine who committed suicide and I was, she was reaching out to

me and I really kept putting it off and when she poisoned herself, I think I

could have really kicked myself. And I think after that I promised myself to pay

attention. To always pay attention to them.

SL So you learnt all of this before you came to the DipEd programme?

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Teacher Yes. Well I went to Chile you know, I went on a Scholarship to Chile two years

ago, where we stayed in Santiago. And we did a programme on teaching

Spanish as a second language.

SL So you had some teacher training and so before you came on the DipEd?

Teacher And then you had to teach in the Colleges across there.

SL How has the DipEd helped you now? In any way?

teacher Yes. Big time [laughter]

SL In what way?

Teacher Lesson planning. It used to roll around in my head and I think I used to

implement a lot of things but now I can do it in an organized way. In what

other ways you will think this programme has helped you? I think the

programme helped me to see students in a different light as well. Like maybe I

should listen and hear them really from their eyes. Looking through their eyes,

which is something that we tend to not do sometimes because we are the

teachers. And although I hear them, I think I really have, I think with being a

student to the DipEd too helped me to walk in their path and I think a lot of my

reflections said that too. That I understand how they feel when they have

exams now. Even though you went through it, it’s been 27 years. I think I feel it

now, I had known it just in theory. Or just remembering but know I actually

feel it with them.

So, the anxiety and so on, I feel it again when I have to do my teaching practice

and that kind of thing, you know the… and it also help me bond in a different

way because the classes are used for curriculum, or teaching practice, it was

really wonderful to see them so concerned about me, “Miss have exams, they

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have to be on their best”. And these are children who people packed in a corner

and say they can’t be helped and these are the children who will do this for me.

SL There are some people who really dismiss them and say…

Teacher [interjected]. Yes “the E/W Secodary children ain’t good”, you always hear that

all the time. I have been showing them that that’s not true.

SL You feel if you hadn’t gone there as a student and spent two years you will be

saying this now?

Teacher No I think that impacted.

SL That you had spent two years there?

Teacher I think a love for the school. One of best years, two of the best years ...

SL [completes sentence] were there. When you were there for the two years it

wasn’t any crazy place?

Teacher No it was under a special principal and it was a, I think I had admired him and

the school back then. It was one of the best Comprehensive schools around.

And one of the biggest. So I really, I had gotten through to another school for

A’levels but I wanted to go there and by a miracle I got through there so I loved

the school.

Teacher I think children just, I don’t like children, that why I have none.

But for some reason, they are attracted to me. They tend to come around me

and so on. So then I started to feel that maybe they see things that I didn’t

know and I have. I tend to get through to them, if I explain something to a

child, they get it. I don’t have a conscious technique, I just… because I run

private tutoring at home. And every child I kinda figure out what that child

needs and I don’t know I just work it out. And what that child needs to learn.

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SL Alright. Over time, which school would you say had the best form of reception

to you? To help you and support you and induct you into that environment?

Did you meet any school like that? That took you as a new teacher and say well

look, this is a new teacher and when you come here these are the things you

must learn. Did they help you; was there any school that had anything like

that?

Teacher A bit at POS High because they have their way of doing things. I think that’s the

reason why they did it. St.Vincent, I think they did it because of the cultural

difference. The nationality difference and so on. To actually take me under

their wings and do it like an induction, No.

So none of these schools have any kind of induction, just the usual thing. This

is where the staffroom is”, you know that kind of thing but not looking at my

lesson plan. In St. Vincent, after a while we did have HoDs and so on. So I got

some guidance there as well. I think it started there too, when the whole

teaching profession became like that.

Teacher Thanks a lot you know. It was good.

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Assignment 1: Due Sunday 13th August 2017

Show how the personal history and identity of this teacher affect her “becoming a teacher”

(4 marks)

How have the professional environment of schools she has worked in affected the growth and

development of this teacher? (4 marks)

Identify and explain two ethical dilemmas faced by this teacher. (4 marks)

Reflect on your own journey to becoming a teacher and state how it is similar or different to this

teachers’ journey. (5 marks)

Demonstrate technical requirements (spelling, grammar, punctuation) (3 marks)

(Word limit 1000 words)